May 1, 2025 • 22 mins
Shawna couldn’t shake the deep sadness she was feeling. With friends, she asked God what she should do. As she obeyed, God pressed deep into her heart that He is the hope of the world. (Romans 15:13)
Next, the more Shawna tries to control everything the more anxious she becomes. Is there a connection between trusting God and experiencing greater peace and joy?
Also, Rob West of Faith & Finance Live shares financial wisdom for economic uncertainty and resources for learning to live more frugally.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:03):
It's the Perry and Shawna podcast on the real life
journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved
child and that Jesus has called you into his massive
mission to heal the world.
S2 (00:17):
Why share the good news of Jesus with someone today?
Because Jesus is the hope of the world. He truly is.
There was a time this was several years ago that
we had a lot going on in Middleville. I live
in Middleville and it's a small community, and there was
a young man who was in a coma. He was
in the wrong place at the wrong time and ended
(00:39):
up in a coma. I'm just going to leave it
at that. And we were praying for his life at
the same time, there was a gal at the high
school who had felt so hopeless that she ended up
taking her own life. And so the students were walking
through that grieving process, and we were praying for this
young man in a coma, and all these things weighed
(00:59):
so heavy on my heart. Now I just have to
say I didn't know either of these families personally. I
wasn't connected relationally to them, but they were families in
our community. And, you know, there's the kind of praying,
like when somebody's on your heart and you pray for them,
and you remember when you pray to pray for them.
But then there's also these circumstances where it's like, you
(01:21):
just don't ever stop praying it. It's so heavy on
your heart. You just are constantly lifting it up before
the Lord. That's what was going on for me. And
at the same time as I was praying, I just
felt this really, really deep sadness for what our community
was experiencing. And so I went to some good friends
(01:43):
of mine and just said, can you guys pray with
me for these circumstances? But then can you also pray
for me because I don't know what to do with
what I'm feeling? I can't seem to. I feel like
there's a dark cloud over me and I can't come
out from under it. And so I need prayer to
know what to do. So I'm so glad that they
didn't just ask that that God would make the dark
cloud go away. They asked, Lord, what do you want
(02:06):
Shonda to know? And what do you want Shauna to do?
And I'm telling you, it was the weirdest sense. But
as we prayed, I thought, I'm supposed to go to
the football field. I'm supposed to go to the stadium
and sit in the stands. I didn't know why. I
just sensed that that's what I was supposed to do.
So in obedience and in trust and in faith, I
went to the football field in the middle of the day, parked,
(02:28):
walked in and sat in the stadium. And as I
sat there and just like, Lord, why am I here?
And started talking with God, he started to reveal to
me things that had taken place amongst our community, like
things that I could not know, things that people had
not told me, just things that existed. And I'm not
talking about calling out names and people and circumstances, but
(02:52):
things like domestic abuse or domestic violence in the home,
or infidelity, but just broken marriages. And my heart was breaking.
My heart broke so much and I wept. And I
prayed over the people that I don't know that were
walking through those circumstances. And then I ended up getting
(03:14):
and moving to a different part in the stands. And
I sat like in the student section. And God started
to reveal to me things that were going on amongst
our students. Again, no names, not personal like that, but
just things like, you know, sexual confusion or promiscuity or just. Yeah,
it was so heartbreaking. Eating disorders, like they just kept coming.
(03:37):
And I prayed into all of these things and the
students who were being impacted by these things. And then
I got up and I moved to a different section
of the stadium and, and new things were revealed. And
this went on for about a 45 minute period of
really just weeping and praying intercessory prayers for our community.
I went home and I opened up God's Word and
(03:59):
I was like, Lord, please speak to me. What do
you have for me? What does your word say about
what you want for Middleville what you want for our community?
And I ended up reading Romans 1513, and I've read
the book of Romans. It's my favorite book. I've read
it so many times, but for some reason I felt
like I was seeing this for the first time ever
(04:19):
in my life. Here's what it says. May the God
of hope fill you with all joy and peace as
you trust in him, so that you may overflow with
hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. And I
was like, that's it, that's it. Our our community needs hope.
We need hope. That's what we need right now. And
God is the God of hope. And hope is given
(04:42):
to us in so generously that it overflows out of
our lives as we trust in him. So that's my
prayer for my little community then and now. it's my
prayer for our nation. It's my prayer for you this
morning that you would overflow with hope by the power
of the Holy Spirit as you trust in him. You
(05:10):
can trust God. This morning I found in my own
life that the more I try to control my own circumstances,
and I try to determine the outcomes in my life,
the more anxious I become. It's just a lot of responsibility,
trying to control everything and trying to control everyone all
the time. It'll make anybody anxious. We were in California
(05:31):
in February. My daughter and son and I traveled together
to visit my family in the LA area, Huntington Beach area.
So we were there and one morning while in the bathroom,
kind of getting ready side by side in front of
the mirror, my daughter was like, mom, are you okay?
And I said, yeah, I just I'm just feeling kind
of anxious right now because, you know, we're staying at
(05:51):
Auntie Jodi's house, and I want to make sure that
I get enough time with Auntie Jodie. But, you know,
my mom lives in assisted living. And, you know, I
want to make sure that we get time with my mom,
with your grandma. And I want to make sure that,
you know, I get to connect with each of my
sisters while I'm here. And, you know, just trying to
make sure all the things. And she goes, mom, that's
a lot. I was like, it is a lot. I
(06:13):
felt so validated that she understood it was a lot,
but she wasn't encouraging me to try to control all
those things. We were never meant to control everything and
control everyone. That's just not our job at all. And
the more I try to control everything, the more anxious
I feel. But on the flip side of that, the
(06:33):
more I trust God to control the things in my
life and relationships and people. And I shift my role
to just being obedient to what God's telling me to do.
So instead of me having to control all things, I
sit in the place of God's in control. I'm not.
And I get to just respond in obedience to the
things that he's putting in front of me. something radically
(06:54):
shifts and changes when that's my orientation and I just
feel more at peace. I feel more content. I enjoy
life more. I laugh more easily. There's actually, yeah, I
enjoy life more. There's more joy in my life. It
seems to me that there's a direct correlation between feeling
(07:14):
joyful and trusting God or or not feeling anxious and
trusting God. It's like the more I trust him, the
more peace and the more joy that I experience. It
makes me think of Romans 1513, one of my favorite verses.
May the God of hope fill you with all joy
(07:36):
and peace as you trust in him, so that you
may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
And I think that the most important word in that
entire verse is just this little two letter word And
may the God of hope fill you with all joy
and peace as you trust in him. It's. It's almost
(07:59):
as if the more I trust in him, the more
he fills me with joy and with peace and with hope.
So much hope that it bubbles out and spills on
other people when I'm not trusting in him. The stuff
that bubbles out and spills on other people is not joy.
It's not hope, and it's not peace. It's my anxiety.
(08:19):
It's my angst. We don't want to be overflowing angst
on the people around us. We want them to experience
hope in us and in God through us. So this
is for me this morning. But maybe it's for you too.
If there's an area in your life where you're lacking joy,
(08:39):
maybe there isn't peace in this area. How can you
lean into Jesus about that thing? I think it starts
with I think it starts. I think it starts with
naming it for what it is and saying, this is
the thing that I'm feeling all angsty about. And then
in regards to that thing, very specifically saying, God, I
(09:00):
trust you. I tell you what, there are days that
feel so rock solid, like you feel like you know
exactly what to expect. And then there are days when
we just don't. And there are a lot of questions
marks sitting in front of us. This is a time
when it comes to economic certainty, where I feel like
(09:22):
we're more sitting in that. I'm not sure what's around
the corner kind of place than we normally are. We
have Rob West with us this morning. He is the
president of Kingdom Advisors. He's the host of Faith and
Finance Live. And Rob, we're looking for some good wisdom
as far as sitting in the place of economic uncertainty.
What should we do.
S3 (09:42):
Yeah you know it's a great question Seana. And it's
on everyone's mind because economic uncertainty is certain. The good
news is we know who controls everything. And I think
this is an amazing opportunity for us to really think
about the testimony that we have amid the uncertainty. You know,
I love what Ron Blue, one of my mentors and
(10:04):
popular authors on biblical finance, says. He says money is
a tool. It's a test. And it's a testimony. So
money is a tool, meaning we use it to accomplish
God's purposes. It's a test because we know it can
rival our hearts. And so we have to be on
our guard. But it's a testimony because I think we're
demonstrating to the world through our money management decisions, where
(10:27):
we place our trust and what we value. And during
these times of uncertainty, our ability to continue to hold
God's money loosely says everything about understanding that God is
our provider and that I can continue to give. I
can continue to manage God's money well by knowing that
(10:47):
he will continue to provide. Now, that doesn't mean I'm
always going to have, as you know, more than I need.
We're going to go through those seasons of challenge, but
we can trust him. And I think now is that
opportunity to do that more than ever.
S2 (11:02):
I recently was in a situation where I thought, you know,
there were some financial circumstances that could change really quickly.
And I'll tell you how I responded. My initial response
to that was literally, I started walking through my house and,
you know, oh, I could sell that coffee table, I
could sell that couch. I could, you know, and it
just was very, uh, freak out ish, if you will.
(11:25):
And spend some time with the Lord and just was like, ah, God, I'm.
I'm anxious and I am freaking out over this. I
need your peace. And have just been asking, God, give me, um,
give me wisdom. So we don't want to if there
is economic uncertainty in front of us, I don't think
there's wisdom into To continuing to spend the way that
(11:48):
we spend or do what we do. There are actions
that we can take, right to be good stewards, but
not be in that freak out place. What would you
what would you advise as far as making adjustments that
need to be made without being reactionary and and not
trusting in God?
S3 (12:06):
It's such a great point, because there's a perspective that
we need to have at the core of everything that
does not change. It's rock solid. We know that that
God is our provider. We can trust him. And we
also know wisdom is a person and that person is Jesus.
And so we need to seek him in all that
we do. That never changes. But you're right. What passes
(12:28):
through our hands, our little mini economies, is ultimately what
we're responsible for. We can't control the gross domestic product.
We can't control inflation. We can't control what happens in
the US or international stock markets. But we can control
what passes through our hands. And are we going to
be found faithful? So what does that look like? Well,
I think there's just some simple principles now, I didn't
(12:51):
say easy, I said simple. So they're simple ideas, harder
to implement. But it starts with living on less than
you earn, because that's the key to every financial success.
And then avoiding debt because debt mortgage is the future.
And then having some margin or building that emergency fund
because that surplus is how we ultimately pay down debt
(13:12):
and accomplish our goals. We want to have some long
term goals because the longer term our perspective, the better
our decision today. And and this might surprise you, I
would continue to give now the amount is between you
and the Lord, but you exercising that giving muscle on
a systematic basis, I think even in those times of uncertainty,
(13:34):
just does so much for your heart and I think
positions you in the right way to honor God as
owner of everything.
S2 (13:41):
I love what you said, Rob, about having long term goals.
Immediately I thought, you know, from a spiritual standpoint, when
we're living our life focused on the right here, right now,
you know, we lose sight of eternity and we're eternal beings.
We were created for eternity. And how we steward our time,
how we steward our money. It all happens differently when
(14:01):
we have that in mind that we're eternal beings.
S3 (14:04):
Yeah, boy, it's so true. And so it's that eternal perspective,
because we can get so caught up in the here
and now and the temporal that until we lift our
sights and say, God, okay, I understand I'm not, I'm not.
I love what Randy Alcorn says. He says, live for
the the the line, not the dot. Right. So if
you think about the dot is your life on earth,
(14:26):
and then the line extending out to the right forever
is for all of eternity. Yeah. And let's live for
the line. Let's not live for the little dot, the
here and now. And and I think that whole perspective
shift is really a big idea. You know, wisdom will
always be more valuable than wealth because it teaches us
(14:47):
to trust God more deeply. And that's what we should
be seeking all the time. But certainly in these times
of uncertainty, we're not promised a smooth path. But we
are called to walk through hard times with hearts anchored
to his character and his nature, and an understanding of
who he is and his promises are true. He will
never leave us or forsake us.
S2 (15:08):
There you go. We've got somebody on the line now.
S4 (15:15):
Hi, Rob. It's Stephanie from Zeeland. Some people are so
good at living frugally. Are there any books or podcasts
that teach how to do that? Well.
S3 (15:23):
Oh, Stephanie, that's a great question. And you're right. You know,
it is a learned behavior. And so I think when
we can find some help along the way, that'll go
a long way. Um, let me give you a few suggestions.
One would be, um, a blog called Money Saving Mom.com.
Krystal Payne is a friend. She runs money saving mom
(15:44):
and she's a Christ follower. And she's super practical and
lots of coupons. And she tracks, you know, the logos
and the trends and could be just a really great
practical resource to help you save some money. So check
out Money Saving Mom, uh, a book. My friend Bob
wrote the book Simple Money, Rich life. Um, it's like
(16:05):
a 21 day plan to kind of live a stress
free life of money management. And, um, I think it
could be something really encouraging for you. It's an easy read,
but it's full of great practical but biblical advice. Um,
so simple money rich life is that book. And then finally,
(16:26):
check out the Faith fi app. Um, you can go
to faith.com that our website, Faith 5.com and uh, you
can download the app. And that would be a way
where you could use the digital envelope system to actually
set up envelopes and connect it up to your credit
and debit cards checking account, and then everything would download
automatically into your envelopes once it learns which ones they
(16:50):
go in. It's what Julie and I use every day.
So that way at any point during the month, you
can see what's left in each envelope.
S2 (16:56):
I love that, I love that so much. I still
use the physical envelopes with cash in them. Yeah. Old school.
S3 (17:04):
A lot of our listeners do know it's good. Whatever
works for you.
S5 (17:07):
All right. We got another question here, Rob. A friend
of ours says that they had to charge ten grand
on a care credit if they don't get it paid
off by July. What's your position about getting a personal
loan versus accepting the interest of the ten grand? Is
there any financial advantage or a credit score advantage at all?
S3 (17:26):
Yeah, it's a good question. So for the benefit of
our audience care, credit is a credit card for healthcare
expenses not covered by insurance. And they do have a
no interest option if it's paid in full Um by
either six, 12, 18, or 24 months, and then it
jumps up pretty high. I think the standard percentage rate
(17:46):
is over 30%, so you're going to want to get
that paid off as soon as possible if you can't. Yeah.
What do you do? I mean certainly you could look
at it. I don't typically like debt consolidation just because
it doesn't solve the underlying issue. Often that led to
the debt in the first place. And so the only
thing I don't want is for you to call back
in six months and say, okay, now I've got the
(18:08):
personal loan. And guess what? The the care credit debt
is back. Or other credit card debt is back. So
we just need to make sure we're working toward a
plan where you have an emergency fund and we don't
have to use this in the future. I realize that's
easier said than done. So I certainly don't want you
paying 32% interest. And so if you could get a
(18:28):
personal loan, that would be at a lower rate. Um,
that would be great. But I think the key is
whether you leave it here, um, or you move it,
I think just try to limit your lifestyle as much
as possible. Limit your spending, free up as much surplus
as you can. Let's attack this debt and get it
paid off just as quickly as you can. I certainly
(18:48):
wouldn't leave it and pay the interest for the sake
of your credit score. I think the big idea is
let's get out of debt as soon as possible.
S2 (18:55):
So good they're calling. The questions are just flooding in now, Rob.
So we got somebody on the line. Here we go.
S6 (19:01):
Hey, Rob, this is Jacob. Um, I am thinking about
starting up a contracting business, and I'm just curious if
you have any guidance for what processes I need to follow, like,
if I need to get a tax ID or, um,
LLC or whatever in order to do that properly just
so I can, um, be right by tax standards and
government type stuff, but then also open up that opportunity
(19:24):
for some side income. Thank you.
S3 (19:27):
Yeah. Great question. I love that you're starting a business.
I would say yeah. There are some just basic steps
you need to follow. Um, I would form an LLC.
I think that's typically the best option there. Why? Well,
limited liability company is going to protect your personal assets,
like your home or your savings from business debts or lawsuits,
(19:47):
which is crucial in contracting because there's, you know, certain
risks that come along with that. Uh, it also can
add some credibility with clients, um, and give you some
tax flexibility. So you would basically choose a business name. Um,
you need to make sure it's available. Check with your
state secretary of state, file the articles of organization with
(20:08):
your state. Um, there's going to be a small filing fee.
You're going to want to create an operating agreement. And
by the way, you could find a local attorney, um,
maybe check with your church or some friends around town,
but somebody who's got kind of a template who can
do that for you? Um, check state requirements for annual reports. Um,
but that is definitely the first step. You're going to
(20:31):
want a tax ID, so an employer identification number, that's
that nine digit number from the IRS, like a Social
Security number. But for businesses, you'll need that. Um, you'll
also want to go ahead and set up your business
bank account licenses and permits. I think it's also important
to get, you know, connected with a CPA who can
(20:51):
help you set up your books because you want to
be sure that you want to keep it separate from
your personal finances.
S5 (20:57):
All right, Rob, we got one more for you. And
it's one of your favorite topics about reverse mortgages. Uh,
Kristen has a question that if I have a reverse
mortgage and I pass in, my children decide to keep
the home is the line of credit if you will
still available to them? Or does it end in my death?
And that if or when they decide to sell, is
(21:20):
that when the money I used is paid back?
S3 (21:24):
Yeah. Great question. So no, it is not available to them.
So what we're talking about when we say reverse mortgage,
the new kind of variety of reverse mortgage is what's
called a hecm, a home equity conversion mortgage. And when
you pass away, the loan would need to be repaid.
So that would either come by the home being sold
(21:46):
by your heirs, which pays back whatever balance, uh, exists.
And then whatever's left is, you know, paid out through
the estate to the heirs. Um, or they can refinance
the loan with their own new loan, a conventional mortgage
to pay off the reverse. And then that would allow
them to keep the property. But the existing reverse mortgage
(22:08):
would not be able to stay in force.
S1 (22:12):
Thanks for letting Harry and Shawna walk the real life
journey with you. The content from the Harry and Carla
podcast comes from their live show Harry and Shawna Mornings
on 89.3 Moody Radio, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to
us by texting 809 68 8930. And please subscribe.
It's the Perry and Shawna podcast on the real life
journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved
child and that Jesus has called you into his massive
mission to heal the world.
S2 (00:17):
Why share the good news of Jesus with someone today?
Because Jesus is the hope of the world. He truly is.
There was a time this was several years ago that
we had a lot going on in Middleville. I live
in Middleville and it's a small community, and there was
a young man who was in a coma. He was
in the wrong place at the wrong time and ended
(00:39):
up in a coma. I'm just going to leave it
at that. And we were praying for his life at
the same time, there was a gal at the high
school who had felt so hopeless that she ended up
taking her own life. And so the students were walking
through that grieving process, and we were praying for this
young man in a coma, and all these things weighed
(00:59):
so heavy on my heart. Now I just have to
say I didn't know either of these families personally. I
wasn't connected relationally to them, but they were families in
our community. And, you know, there's the kind of praying,
like when somebody's on your heart and you pray for them,
and you remember when you pray to pray for them.
But then there's also these circumstances where it's like, you
(01:21):
just don't ever stop praying it. It's so heavy on
your heart. You just are constantly lifting it up before
the Lord. That's what was going on for me. And
at the same time as I was praying, I just
felt this really, really deep sadness for what our community
was experiencing. And so I went to some good friends
(01:43):
of mine and just said, can you guys pray with
me for these circumstances? But then can you also pray
for me because I don't know what to do with
what I'm feeling? I can't seem to. I feel like
there's a dark cloud over me and I can't come
out from under it. And so I need prayer to
know what to do. So I'm so glad that they
didn't just ask that that God would make the dark
cloud go away. They asked, Lord, what do you want
(02:06):
Shonda to know? And what do you want Shauna to do?
And I'm telling you, it was the weirdest sense. But
as we prayed, I thought, I'm supposed to go to
the football field. I'm supposed to go to the stadium
and sit in the stands. I didn't know why. I
just sensed that that's what I was supposed to do.
So in obedience and in trust and in faith, I
went to the football field in the middle of the day, parked,
(02:28):
walked in and sat in the stadium. And as I
sat there and just like, Lord, why am I here?
And started talking with God, he started to reveal to
me things that had taken place amongst our community, like
things that I could not know, things that people had
not told me, just things that existed. And I'm not
talking about calling out names and people and circumstances, but
(02:52):
things like domestic abuse or domestic violence in the home,
or infidelity, but just broken marriages. And my heart was breaking.
My heart broke so much and I wept. And I
prayed over the people that I don't know that were
walking through those circumstances. And then I ended up getting
(03:14):
and moving to a different part in the stands. And
I sat like in the student section. And God started
to reveal to me things that were going on amongst
our students. Again, no names, not personal like that, but
just things like, you know, sexual confusion or promiscuity or just. Yeah,
it was so heartbreaking. Eating disorders, like they just kept coming.
(03:37):
And I prayed into all of these things and the
students who were being impacted by these things. And then
I got up and I moved to a different section
of the stadium and, and new things were revealed. And
this went on for about a 45 minute period of
really just weeping and praying intercessory prayers for our community.
I went home and I opened up God's Word and
(03:59):
I was like, Lord, please speak to me. What do
you have for me? What does your word say about
what you want for Middleville what you want for our community?
And I ended up reading Romans 1513, and I've read
the book of Romans. It's my favorite book. I've read
it so many times, but for some reason I felt
like I was seeing this for the first time ever
(04:19):
in my life. Here's what it says. May the God
of hope fill you with all joy and peace as
you trust in him, so that you may overflow with
hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. And I
was like, that's it, that's it. Our our community needs hope.
We need hope. That's what we need right now. And
God is the God of hope. And hope is given
(04:42):
to us in so generously that it overflows out of
our lives as we trust in him. So that's my
prayer for my little community then and now. it's my
prayer for our nation. It's my prayer for you this
morning that you would overflow with hope by the power
of the Holy Spirit as you trust in him. You
(05:10):
can trust God. This morning I found in my own
life that the more I try to control my own circumstances,
and I try to determine the outcomes in my life,
the more anxious I become. It's just a lot of responsibility,
trying to control everything and trying to control everyone all
the time. It'll make anybody anxious. We were in California
(05:31):
in February. My daughter and son and I traveled together
to visit my family in the LA area, Huntington Beach area.
So we were there and one morning while in the bathroom,
kind of getting ready side by side in front of
the mirror, my daughter was like, mom, are you okay?
And I said, yeah, I just I'm just feeling kind
of anxious right now because, you know, we're staying at
(05:51):
Auntie Jodi's house, and I want to make sure that
I get enough time with Auntie Jodie. But, you know,
my mom lives in assisted living. And, you know, I
want to make sure that we get time with my mom,
with your grandma. And I want to make sure that,
you know, I get to connect with each of my
sisters while I'm here. And, you know, just trying to
make sure all the things. And she goes, mom, that's
a lot. I was like, it is a lot. I
(06:13):
felt so validated that she understood it was a lot,
but she wasn't encouraging me to try to control all
those things. We were never meant to control everything and
control everyone. That's just not our job at all. And
the more I try to control everything, the more anxious
I feel. But on the flip side of that, the
(06:33):
more I trust God to control the things in my
life and relationships and people. And I shift my role
to just being obedient to what God's telling me to do.
So instead of me having to control all things, I
sit in the place of God's in control. I'm not.
And I get to just respond in obedience to the
things that he's putting in front of me. something radically
(06:54):
shifts and changes when that's my orientation and I just
feel more at peace. I feel more content. I enjoy
life more. I laugh more easily. There's actually, yeah, I
enjoy life more. There's more joy in my life. It
seems to me that there's a direct correlation between feeling
(07:14):
joyful and trusting God or or not feeling anxious and
trusting God. It's like the more I trust him, the
more peace and the more joy that I experience. It
makes me think of Romans 1513, one of my favorite verses.
May the God of hope fill you with all joy
(07:36):
and peace as you trust in him, so that you
may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
And I think that the most important word in that
entire verse is just this little two letter word And
may the God of hope fill you with all joy
and peace as you trust in him. It's. It's almost
(07:59):
as if the more I trust in him, the more
he fills me with joy and with peace and with hope.
So much hope that it bubbles out and spills on
other people when I'm not trusting in him. The stuff
that bubbles out and spills on other people is not joy.
It's not hope, and it's not peace. It's my anxiety.
(08:19):
It's my angst. We don't want to be overflowing angst
on the people around us. We want them to experience
hope in us and in God through us. So this
is for me this morning. But maybe it's for you too.
If there's an area in your life where you're lacking joy,
(08:39):
maybe there isn't peace in this area. How can you
lean into Jesus about that thing? I think it starts
with I think it starts. I think it starts with
naming it for what it is and saying, this is
the thing that I'm feeling all angsty about. And then
in regards to that thing, very specifically saying, God, I
(09:00):
trust you. I tell you what, there are days that
feel so rock solid, like you feel like you know
exactly what to expect. And then there are days when
we just don't. And there are a lot of questions
marks sitting in front of us. This is a time
when it comes to economic certainty, where I feel like
(09:22):
we're more sitting in that. I'm not sure what's around
the corner kind of place than we normally are. We
have Rob West with us this morning. He is the
president of Kingdom Advisors. He's the host of Faith and
Finance Live. And Rob, we're looking for some good wisdom
as far as sitting in the place of economic uncertainty.
What should we do.
S3 (09:42):
Yeah you know it's a great question Seana. And it's
on everyone's mind because economic uncertainty is certain. The good
news is we know who controls everything. And I think
this is an amazing opportunity for us to really think
about the testimony that we have amid the uncertainty. You know,
I love what Ron Blue, one of my mentors and
(10:04):
popular authors on biblical finance, says. He says money is
a tool. It's a test. And it's a testimony. So
money is a tool, meaning we use it to accomplish
God's purposes. It's a test because we know it can
rival our hearts. And so we have to be on
our guard. But it's a testimony because I think we're
demonstrating to the world through our money management decisions, where
(10:27):
we place our trust and what we value. And during
these times of uncertainty, our ability to continue to hold
God's money loosely says everything about understanding that God is
our provider and that I can continue to give. I
can continue to manage God's money well by knowing that
(10:47):
he will continue to provide. Now, that doesn't mean I'm
always going to have, as you know, more than I need.
We're going to go through those seasons of challenge, but
we can trust him. And I think now is that
opportunity to do that more than ever.
S2 (11:02):
I recently was in a situation where I thought, you know,
there were some financial circumstances that could change really quickly.
And I'll tell you how I responded. My initial response
to that was literally, I started walking through my house and,
you know, oh, I could sell that coffee table, I
could sell that couch. I could, you know, and it
just was very, uh, freak out ish, if you will.
(11:25):
And spend some time with the Lord and just was like, ah, God, I'm.
I'm anxious and I am freaking out over this. I
need your peace. And have just been asking, God, give me, um,
give me wisdom. So we don't want to if there
is economic uncertainty in front of us, I don't think
there's wisdom into To continuing to spend the way that
(11:48):
we spend or do what we do. There are actions
that we can take, right to be good stewards, but
not be in that freak out place. What would you
what would you advise as far as making adjustments that
need to be made without being reactionary and and not
trusting in God?
S3 (12:06):
It's such a great point, because there's a perspective that
we need to have at the core of everything that
does not change. It's rock solid. We know that that
God is our provider. We can trust him. And we
also know wisdom is a person and that person is Jesus.
And so we need to seek him in all that
we do. That never changes. But you're right. What passes
(12:28):
through our hands, our little mini economies, is ultimately what
we're responsible for. We can't control the gross domestic product.
We can't control inflation. We can't control what happens in
the US or international stock markets. But we can control
what passes through our hands. And are we going to
be found faithful? So what does that look like? Well,
I think there's just some simple principles now, I didn't
(12:51):
say easy, I said simple. So they're simple ideas, harder
to implement. But it starts with living on less than
you earn, because that's the key to every financial success.
And then avoiding debt because debt mortgage is the future.
And then having some margin or building that emergency fund
because that surplus is how we ultimately pay down debt
(13:12):
and accomplish our goals. We want to have some long
term goals because the longer term our perspective, the better
our decision today. And and this might surprise you, I
would continue to give now the amount is between you
and the Lord, but you exercising that giving muscle on
a systematic basis, I think even in those times of uncertainty,
(13:34):
just does so much for your heart and I think
positions you in the right way to honor God as
owner of everything.
S2 (13:41):
I love what you said, Rob, about having long term goals.
Immediately I thought, you know, from a spiritual standpoint, when
we're living our life focused on the right here, right now,
you know, we lose sight of eternity and we're eternal beings.
We were created for eternity. And how we steward our time,
how we steward our money. It all happens differently when
(14:01):
we have that in mind that we're eternal beings.
S3 (14:04):
Yeah, boy, it's so true. And so it's that eternal perspective,
because we can get so caught up in the here
and now and the temporal that until we lift our
sights and say, God, okay, I understand I'm not, I'm not.
I love what Randy Alcorn says. He says, live for
the the the line, not the dot. Right. So if
you think about the dot is your life on earth,
(14:26):
and then the line extending out to the right forever
is for all of eternity. Yeah. And let's live for
the line. Let's not live for the little dot, the
here and now. And and I think that whole perspective
shift is really a big idea. You know, wisdom will
always be more valuable than wealth because it teaches us
(14:47):
to trust God more deeply. And that's what we should
be seeking all the time. But certainly in these times
of uncertainty, we're not promised a smooth path. But we
are called to walk through hard times with hearts anchored
to his character and his nature, and an understanding of
who he is and his promises are true. He will
never leave us or forsake us.
S2 (15:08):
There you go. We've got somebody on the line now.
S4 (15:15):
Hi, Rob. It's Stephanie from Zeeland. Some people are so
good at living frugally. Are there any books or podcasts
that teach how to do that? Well.
S3 (15:23):
Oh, Stephanie, that's a great question. And you're right. You know,
it is a learned behavior. And so I think when
we can find some help along the way, that'll go
a long way. Um, let me give you a few suggestions.
One would be, um, a blog called Money Saving Mom.com.
Krystal Payne is a friend. She runs money saving mom
(15:44):
and she's a Christ follower. And she's super practical and
lots of coupons. And she tracks, you know, the logos
and the trends and could be just a really great
practical resource to help you save some money. So check
out Money Saving Mom, uh, a book. My friend Bob
wrote the book Simple Money, Rich life. Um, it's like
(16:05):
a 21 day plan to kind of live a stress
free life of money management. And, um, I think it
could be something really encouraging for you. It's an easy read,
but it's full of great practical but biblical advice. Um,
so simple money rich life is that book. And then finally,
(16:26):
check out the Faith fi app. Um, you can go
to faith.com that our website, Faith 5.com and uh, you
can download the app. And that would be a way
where you could use the digital envelope system to actually
set up envelopes and connect it up to your credit
and debit cards checking account, and then everything would download
automatically into your envelopes once it learns which ones they
(16:50):
go in. It's what Julie and I use every day.
So that way at any point during the month, you
can see what's left in each envelope.
S2 (16:56):
I love that, I love that so much. I still
use the physical envelopes with cash in them. Yeah. Old school.
S3 (17:04):
A lot of our listeners do know it's good. Whatever
works for you.
S5 (17:07):
All right. We got another question here, Rob. A friend
of ours says that they had to charge ten grand
on a care credit if they don't get it paid
off by July. What's your position about getting a personal
loan versus accepting the interest of the ten grand? Is
there any financial advantage or a credit score advantage at all?
S3 (17:26):
Yeah, it's a good question. So for the benefit of
our audience care, credit is a credit card for healthcare
expenses not covered by insurance. And they do have a
no interest option if it's paid in full Um by
either six, 12, 18, or 24 months, and then it
jumps up pretty high. I think the standard percentage rate
(17:46):
is over 30%, so you're going to want to get
that paid off as soon as possible if you can't. Yeah.
What do you do? I mean certainly you could look
at it. I don't typically like debt consolidation just because
it doesn't solve the underlying issue. Often that led to
the debt in the first place. And so the only
thing I don't want is for you to call back
in six months and say, okay, now I've got the
(18:08):
personal loan. And guess what? The the care credit debt
is back. Or other credit card debt is back. So
we just need to make sure we're working toward a
plan where you have an emergency fund and we don't
have to use this in the future. I realize that's
easier said than done. So I certainly don't want you
paying 32% interest. And so if you could get a
(18:28):
personal loan, that would be at a lower rate. Um,
that would be great. But I think the key is
whether you leave it here, um, or you move it,
I think just try to limit your lifestyle as much
as possible. Limit your spending, free up as much surplus
as you can. Let's attack this debt and get it
paid off just as quickly as you can. I certainly
(18:48):
wouldn't leave it and pay the interest for the sake
of your credit score. I think the big idea is
let's get out of debt as soon as possible.
S2 (18:55):
So good they're calling. The questions are just flooding in now, Rob.
So we got somebody on the line. Here we go.
S6 (19:01):
Hey, Rob, this is Jacob. Um, I am thinking about
starting up a contracting business, and I'm just curious if
you have any guidance for what processes I need to follow, like,
if I need to get a tax ID or, um,
LLC or whatever in order to do that properly just
so I can, um, be right by tax standards and
government type stuff, but then also open up that opportunity
(19:24):
for some side income. Thank you.
S3 (19:27):
Yeah. Great question. I love that you're starting a business.
I would say yeah. There are some just basic steps
you need to follow. Um, I would form an LLC.
I think that's typically the best option there. Why? Well,
limited liability company is going to protect your personal assets,
like your home or your savings from business debts or lawsuits,
(19:47):
which is crucial in contracting because there's, you know, certain
risks that come along with that. Uh, it also can
add some credibility with clients, um, and give you some
tax flexibility. So you would basically choose a business name. Um,
you need to make sure it's available. Check with your
state secretary of state, file the articles of organization with
(20:08):
your state. Um, there's going to be a small filing fee.
You're going to want to create an operating agreement. And
by the way, you could find a local attorney, um,
maybe check with your church or some friends around town,
but somebody who's got kind of a template who can
do that for you? Um, check state requirements for annual reports. Um,
but that is definitely the first step. You're going to
(20:31):
want a tax ID, so an employer identification number, that's
that nine digit number from the IRS, like a Social
Security number. But for businesses, you'll need that. Um, you'll
also want to go ahead and set up your business
bank account licenses and permits. I think it's also important
to get, you know, connected with a CPA who can
(20:51):
help you set up your books because you want to
be sure that you want to keep it separate from
your personal finances.
S5 (20:57):
All right, Rob, we got one more for you. And
it's one of your favorite topics about reverse mortgages. Uh,
Kristen has a question that if I have a reverse
mortgage and I pass in, my children decide to keep
the home is the line of credit if you will
still available to them? Or does it end in my death?
And that if or when they decide to sell, is
(21:20):
that when the money I used is paid back?
S3 (21:24):
Yeah. Great question. So no, it is not available to them.
So what we're talking about when we say reverse mortgage,
the new kind of variety of reverse mortgage is what's
called a hecm, a home equity conversion mortgage. And when
you pass away, the loan would need to be repaid.
So that would either come by the home being sold
(21:46):
by your heirs, which pays back whatever balance, uh, exists.
And then whatever's left is, you know, paid out through
the estate to the heirs. Um, or they can refinance
the loan with their own new loan, a conventional mortgage
to pay off the reverse. And then that would allow
them to keep the property. But the existing reverse mortgage
(22:08):
would not be able to stay in force.
S1 (22:12):
Thanks for letting Harry and Shawna walk the real life
journey with you. The content from the Harry and Carla
podcast comes from their live show Harry and Shawna Mornings
on 89.3 Moody Radio, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to
us by texting 809 68 8930. And please subscribe.
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