May 19, 2025 • 31 mins
Are you weary and frustrated with your kids…with yourself?
In a moment of anger, Amber was yelling at her kids when she realized the neighbor had come over to drop something off. “Oh no! Did she hear my outburst?” she wondered. That was the moment she knew she needed to address the anger that often undermined her mothering.
Amber Lia is a best-selling author. Her newest book is the devotional - Untriggered: 60 Days of Transformation for Moms Who Struggle with Anger.
In an honest conversation with Perry & Shawna about the moments as parents that we didn’t reflect the character of God to our children, Amber shares real life ways we can find our way back to living out the fruit of the Spirit in our homes, with our kids.
Perry was at the Cliffs of Moher in Ireland on his trip of a lifetime with his bride. He went off the official trail and was yelled at by a park worker. He was offended and treated the worker unkindly. That’s when the Holy Spirit said, “Go back and apologize.”
Sometimes Shawna feels like God’s not doing His job. She believes that God should fix her problems. Instead of asking, “God, what are you doing?” she’s learning to ask, “God what are you doing in me?” and to trust His grace is enough.
Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshow/wgnb
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:03):
It's the Ferry and Shawna podcast on the real life
journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved
child and that Jesus has called you into his massive
mission to heal the world.
S2 (00:19):
Well, maybe you know what it's like to be triggered
and to get angry. When I was a little girl,
I dreamed of growing up and getting married and becoming
a mom. I was going to be the best mom ever.
I studied the What to Expect When You're Expecting book
when I got pregnant. Literally like like my Bible, it
was highlighted. It was dog eared. It was underlined with
notes in the notes along the side. And I had
(00:41):
lots of experience of babysitting. So in many ways I
was pretty intuitive with my newborn. But when she was
about eight months old, we ended up having just a really,
really rough night and I totally lost my patience with her.
I'm telling you, this baby cried and cried and cried
and cried. And no matter what I did, she just
(01:02):
wouldn't stop. And so I walked into her room and
I put her in her crib. I mean, I put
her there, I was it wasn't like gentle mama. I
put her in her crib and I walked out of
the room, and I was so angry at my baby,
and I thought, oh my gosh, who am I? This
is not the mom that I thought I would be.
S3 (01:23):
Yes, I so understand that, Shauna. I'm telling you, I
had some of those similar moments and there are a
lot of us, I think, that relate to what you
just shared, because we have this idea and this dream
of the kind of parent we're going to be, and
then those trigger moments happen and we sort of pile
on all this guilt and shame and we think, oh
my goodness, is this how it's going to be forever?
(01:45):
And that can be overwhelming, too.
S2 (01:47):
Yeah.
S4 (01:48):
Amber Lee is with us. She's a bestselling author. Her
latest book is untriggered 60 Days of Transformation for Moms
Who Struggle with Anger. Why do we get angry? Why
do we get triggered? You know, in Shauna's case, it's
a little baby. Doesn't really know their left from their right.
But we do get triggered by the littlest of things.
(02:09):
And sometimes the biggest things. What's underneath that?
S3 (02:12):
Well, there are a lot of different triggers that many
of us will struggle with. And sometimes when kids are
very young, it's those external things like just the exhaustion, right?
The things that really don't have anything to do necessarily
with our child's behavior. And then as they get a
little bit older, we start to see them having these tantrums.
Or they're a teenager and we these we see them
talking back to us or being irresponsible. And that can
(02:35):
be a trigger. So anything that elicits a strong reaction,
an emotional reaction in us as parents is a trigger.
And every age and stage of childhood is going to
be shifting. And so we we could be in a
perpetual state of feeling offended or feeling defensive or feeling
angry and frustrated. And we have to get a grasp
(02:57):
on this, because if we're going to live life to
the full right as God designed, if we want to
feel like, yes, I know how to do this parenting
thing and to create the kind of home that I
dream of and that God lays out in Scripture, there
has to be a way for us to manage these triggers.
And there is.
S2 (03:12):
When did you discover that this was a part of
your journey? Obviously, to be able to write a book
about it, you've discovered this about yourself. What's your story? Amber.
S3 (03:22):
You know, when my first three kids were ages four
and under, my husband moved us to the central coast
of California. So I was in a small town. It
was new, so there was this big transition. I didn't
have a lot of support. Um, it was a lot of,
you know, new church, new neighborhood, all the things. So
(03:43):
everything was sort of bewildering. And then my kids weren't
sleeping well, and I had left a job that I loved,
and I loved being with my kids, but I also
felt like such a fish out of water that that
was sort of my my turning point when I realized
I'm angry all the time. I'm frustrated all the time,
I'm snapping all the time. And I love my kids
(04:03):
and I love the Lord. What is wrong with me?
So then I felt all this shame and the guilt,
and I just remember one day my husband going off
to work, turning around, snapping at my kids. Neighbor knocks
on the door to return something and I freeze and
I think, oh my gosh, did they just hear me snapping?
And that was embarrassing enough for me to go, okay, Lord,
I'm done. I can't keep doing this and I need
(04:24):
you to help me. And that was really my turning
point when I realized I needed to study the Word
of God. What does it say about anger? And I've
got to start making some practical changes so that I
can be the mom that I know God wants me
to be.
S4 (04:38):
Forgiving our kids when they've blown it. When my brother
Nate was in high school, he and a friend got
a quote unquote brilliant idea. They decided to hide in
the trees and shoot at passing cars with a pellet gun.
One driver's car was hit and he chased Nate and
his friend down. And my dad got a call from
(05:00):
the police station. My dad went down to the police
station and brought Nate home, and I don't know what
was said in the car, but when they got home,
my dad said, Nate, I think you've learned your lesson.
I can see that getting caught has chastened you. You're forgiven.
You know the right path. We don't need to talk
of this again. Amber, take me to a moment when
(05:22):
you offered grace instead of anger to one of your kids.
S3 (05:26):
You know, there have had to be many opportunities for
me to offer grace. Because kids are naturally in a
state of maturing. And that takes time, right? So we're
always going to be faced with opportunities to give our
kids grace. And I have to continually remind myself that
God gives me grace continually as well. And so that
(05:47):
enables me to offer it back to them. But, you know,
not just recently. And this can be any age and stage,
but my boys have learned to be pretty obedient. You know,
they they know that it's going to go well with them.
And I remember just recently, this is this is key
to know the kind of age and stage and development
what's going on with your child. Because this was really
(06:08):
helpful for me in offering grace. So I have a
teenager who is pretty compliant, and his job was to
mow the lawn. And I asked him one day it
was late in the afternoon. He'd been, you know, done
his schoolwork. He'd been to practice. I knew he was tired,
but he came in the door and I said, hey, buddy,
it's your turn to mow the lawn. I need you
to hop out there and do the thing. And and
(06:30):
he turned the corner and started walking up the stairs
and just turned around to me and said, no, just
that that was it. That was the only thing. Just no,
there was no discussion or hey, could I do it
later or I'm really tired. It was just no. And
it was like forceful. And I was like, I'm not
used to this. Like, what do you mean? No? And
I started to feel my body stiffen. Right. My shoulders
(06:52):
go back and the hands start to make their way
up to my head. Yeah. And I start to go
up the stairs to follow him. And then it looks
like the Holy Spirit just stopped me and was like, Amber,
you don't have to fix this right now. You be
aware of where he's at. You have no idea what
maybe just happened with a friend, a conversation he had
with somebody else. You know, who knows what's happened. Show
(07:13):
him some grace right now and some compassion. Let him go.
He went upstairs, took a nap, fell asleep, was refreshed,
came back down. And before I could even reprimand him
in any way, he said to me, mama, I apologize
for earlier. I was really tired. And he went on
to tell me what kind of the back story was.
And you know what? I understand I can make room
for that in our relationship. And so sometimes it's just
(07:35):
knowing your kid, knowing the environment, or even just stopping
and letting them have a nap so that you can
come back and talk to them at a time that's
much more teachable, where you can actually still preserve your
relationship instead of matching their defiance with your anger.
S2 (07:53):
Kids are different. God made our kids different on purpose.
And I think one of the things that works against
us in the world that we live in today in parenting,
is just social media and comparison. But I tell you what,
I was raising my kids before that all happened. And
I had a I have a sister in law that
had a baby that was born like five weeks before
(08:13):
my daughter was. So the two of them were really,
really close. So we took the girls to the botanical
gardens for the day, and her daughter just held her
hand and was so excited to see all the things.
She would point at the pretty flowers and say, pretty
mama pretty. And she's like, yes, aren't they beautiful? My
daughter was running around picking flowers and bringing them to me,
(08:34):
which is frowned upon at the Botanical Garden at the
Botanical Gardens, FYI. And it's not because I was negligent.
It's not because I wasn't a good mom or didn't
read the poster that said, don't pick the flowers. It's
just they were different kids. My daughter was so curious
and so busy and I thought, what is wrong with me?
(08:54):
What am I doing wrong? That her daughter seems to
be so content and compliant, and my daughter seems to
be all over the place. Amber, talk about the differences
in personalities among our kids.
S3 (09:06):
Oh man Shauna I relate to that so much. And
you know, I have four boys and we call our
home a testosterone home.
S5 (09:14):
Affectionately because that's definitely what it is.
S3 (09:17):
Um, and they are all alike in some ways and
yet very different from each other. And I think this
is the beauty of listening to parents who have gone
ahead of you a little bit so that they can see,
you know, you can kind of see how those different
personalities like that strong will or their curiosity develops into
who God is designing them to be. And I think
(09:38):
as parents, sometimes we just want it a little bit easier.
We want the personalities to, you know, not clash with ours.
We want to see the end result. And really it's
important for us to just be present in today. What
can I actually celebrate about my child instead of comparing
them to others or to myself and how I might
(09:59):
do things. And when you celebrate their uniqueness, you leave
room for God to do the good work that he's
going to do in them. We can't all be the same.
We don't want every child to look exactly like the
next one. It shouldn't be that way. And thank the
Lord it's not. And so for me, the mindset shift
to stop being triggered by that was to celebrate who
(10:23):
they are uniquely and to trust and leave room for
God to develop that into who he needs and wants
them to be, to fulfill his purpose in life, not
just make my life a little bit less triggered today.
S2 (10:36):
In regards to the different personalities. Amber, there are certain
personalities that push our buttons more than others. You know,
I can see how some of the kids are more
like dad and where they kind of bump heads. It's like, oh,
it's because y'all are alike that way. And with me,
it's the same thing. So talk about that kind of
being triggered and seeing yourself in your kids.
S3 (10:58):
Well, you know, it's a double edged sword, isn't it?
Like it's so delightful to see your child replicating you. Like,
this is part of the exciting part of just your
legacy of what God is doing. And then they can
absolutely rub you the wrong way. And I like to
think of it as, you know, this is like sandpaper
and sandpaper smooths the rough edges. Right? So if we
(11:20):
can look at the these things where we're clashing or
it feels like sandpaper, we're up against a child's personality
and we start to think of it as no. This
is a refining process for me. I get to grow
in being patient. Every trigger really, ultimately is an opportunity.
You know, it's an opportunity for me to see. Do
I need to just maybe give my child a little
(11:40):
bit more coaching and training here? Do they have some
maturing that they need to do, or do I need
to grow in being more thankful for the situation that
I'm in right now with my child, hard as it
may be. What is the good that God is going
to do from that? To have hope and to build
in my faith. It's an opportunity for me to demonstrate
the fruit of the spirit. That's what parenting ultimately is.
(12:02):
It's looking at our children as the gift that they are,
and knowing this is why I'm here right now. It's
not for me to be totally at peace because there's
no problems. We're going to have trouble in this world.
The point is for me to lovingly point my kids
to the Lord, and to be the hands and feet
of Jesus to them in every situation. That's why we're here,
and it's a privilege to do that.
S4 (12:23):
Give us one real life way that a mom can
shift her response from an anger, a triggered anger response
to a Jesus response.
S3 (12:35):
You know, one of my favorite verses is the verse
that talks about, you know, being quick to listen and
slow to speak. Right. And then there's all these wonderful
verses about that. A gentle answer turns away wrath. Right.
And the teaching of kindness is on her tongue. And so,
just very practically, I found that I often got myself
into trouble when I was way too fast with my
(12:56):
words and even my assumptions, because sometimes two kids are
tangling with each other and I don't see the full picture.
And then I've over disciplined or disciplined the wrong kid. Right.
Have you ever done that?
S5 (13:06):
Oh, yeah.
S3 (13:06):
So for me, yeah, I like to call it a
holy pause, where I just stop in the moment and
really take a breath. You know, you can research breathing techniques,
but I like to do a box breathing technique where
I just literally like, hey, everybody, let's just breathe for
a second and then we can talk about this and
I'll just breathe for four seconds. Hold it. Just let
(13:26):
it out, allow the physiological response in my brain and
body to calm for a second. And then even just
a quick prayer, I'll just be like, Lord, I don't
know what's going on here, but I just need your
help in this moment. And sometimes I say that to
my kids. I don't even know what to do right now,
but I know who does. And so I'm just going
to pray about this for a minute. Not everything has
(13:47):
to be dealt with immediately, and certainly not when I'm
out of control. As a mom, I got to get
control of myself first before I can try to control
my kids. So that holy pause is a really good,
practical way of going about that.
S2 (13:59):
Here's the thing. God can meet you in that moment.
And I think even too, you know, you had said Amber,
that not everything needs to be solved. Like in a moment.
We can even say to our kids, like, I don't
even know what I'm going to do with this situation,
but I know that I love you and that's not
going to change. So let's just take a minute and
we'll circle back to this. I really want to spend
some time with the Lord and see what he has
to say.
S4 (14:24):
I let my anger get the best of me with
my precious daughter. When my daughter Kaylee was about two,
she didn't want to go to bed. She didn't want
to miss out on what was happening. So one night
we had put her to bed and again she wanted
to be out with us. We put her back in
bed and closed the door. She came to her door
(14:45):
and just banged on it again and again. Bang bang bang.
And my anger got the best of me. And I
went in and I spanked her in anger. And that
was the night I vowed never again will I discipline
in anger. Amber talked to the mom or dad who
(15:06):
feels like they've done too much damage to their kids
in anger.
S3 (15:11):
You know, Perry and Shawna, I am so thankful that
we're being transparent and vulnerable in talking about this topic
because for so long I felt a lot of shame
and guilt and I thought, is it even too late
for me? You know, even though my kids were little,
I just thought, I don't know if I can change
and I don't know if this is, you know, left
(15:31):
its mark on my children's hearts. And the good news is,
all these years later is, first of all, our kids
are very forgiving of us. They tend to be overwhelmingly gracious,
I have found, but it's super important to recognize that
the enemy is going to want to erode our relationships
(15:51):
with our within our family. That's part of his tactic.
And he comes to destroy. And yet Jesus comes to
give us life and life to the full. And so,
you know, Jesus already paid for all of our sin.
There's no more condemnation for you, angry mom. Angry dad.
I like to raise my hand and say hi. You know,
my name is Amber Leah and I'm a recovering, angry mom.
(16:13):
And if I can admit that, Perry, if you can
admit that about yourself as a dad, then you know
it gives us freedom to just breathe and recognize this
is not the totality of who we are. We're not
the sum of the past mistakes or even our sins.
And so, you know, Psalm 103 talks about how God
has removed our sins as far as the East is
(16:33):
from the West talks about how he has compassion like
a father on his children. That's us as parents. We're
his children. He's tender and he knows how weak we are.
He remembers that we are but dust. He takes all
of that into account. So listen, it's never too late.
It's always best to just. What's the next right thing.
What can I do today? I may not be able
(16:55):
to change what happened yesterday, but I can just take
it three hours at a time.
S5 (17:00):
Come on. Sometimes just one hour.
S3 (17:01):
At a time, right? One hour at a time. What
can I do in the next hour to do what
is right? I apologized to my kids a lot. I
would even stop in the middle of starting to say
the wrong thing.
S5 (17:10):
Well hold on. Sorry. Yep.
S3 (17:12):
I'm learning.
S5 (17:13):
I'm learning.
S3 (17:13):
I tell my kids I'm learning to not do this anymore.
And so I apologize. Let me start again. And so
just doing the next right thing and recognizing that there's
no more guilt for you mom or dad, there isn't.
But let's be accountable to the future and to our
children and to the Lord, and just lean in on
(17:34):
what's next right in front of me.
S2 (17:36):
Here's the thing I think you know, right out the gate. Amber,
you get me? I'm. You know what I mean? I'm
I don't feel like I'm going to walk in and
receive judgment. Can you share just a little bit of
encouragement for moms who, you know, you had shared a
story of kind of your anger being exposed, and then
that was the impetus to start. But just the importance
(17:56):
of walking this journey with other moms and and not
being silent in the way that anger is displayed in
your home.
S3 (18:03):
You know, I didn't ever really want to talk about
this topic. Um, and years ago I asked someone someone
asked me if I would be open to just, you know,
starting a Facebook group, like a support group for moms.
And I was like, I pushed it off for a
long time. And, you know, when I started that Facebook group,
a thousand moms joined in the first week and it
(18:23):
grew to like 17,000 moms. And then that was like
my clue, like, okay, um, Amber, you're not the only one.
And the need is very high. And so I think
that's important that there really is an epidemic. Like, it's
just something that a lot of people don't feel comfortable
talking about. And so I want to destigmatize that, and
I want us to feel free, because the Bible also
(18:44):
says that healing comes when we confess, right? Like, we
have to first acknowledge that the healing does come, but
we have to acknowledge the reality of the issue. And
then we need to band together and help each other.
And there's a lot of compassion because there's no judgment
from me. You all know, you know, that Shawna and
Perry and I, we're we've been a mess, so there's
(19:04):
no judgment. And this book is full of compassion and
loving kindness because that's what I experienced that day when
I shut that door on my neighbor and I said, Lord,
transform me. Um, he took me through that process. But
it was his compassion that I felt the most. And
that's what I want to come through in the pages
of that book, and I hope that it does, and
I hope they feel that way after listening to our conversation.
S4 (19:26):
I am so encouraged because we've gotten to honestly talk
about our failures, but also to talk about the gospel.
S2 (19:33):
And the grace.
S4 (19:35):
Yeah. You know, it's it's being able to preach the
gospel to ourselves and to one another. And we need
to do this every single day, I need it. I
don't know about you. When we offer unexpected kindness to people,
they experience the presence of God. On our third day
(19:55):
in Ireland. It's a lovely place on Theresa's and my
trip of a lifetime. For our 40th anniversary, we made
it to the Cliffs of Moher. You've probably heard of
the Cliffs of Moher?
S2 (20:08):
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I've not been, but I've just heard.
S4 (20:12):
It's a stunning view of the Atlantic Ocean, set against
700 foot tall, jutting cliffs and on the top of
the cliffs, it's all green grass. So you have this.
You have the ocean, the blue of the ocean, the
dark of the cliffs, and then the beautiful green topped,
you know, grass on top of the cliffs. It's just amazing.
S2 (20:35):
It's the image that comes to mind when you say Ireland.
S4 (20:38):
Right. Yeah, Exactly. Everything there is green right now. It's spring,
just like here. And these are, by the way, the
cliffs of insanity in The Princess Bride.
S2 (20:49):
Inconceivable, inconceivable. I do not think that means what you
think it means.
S4 (20:54):
They shot it there. So anyway, Theresa and I took
in the beauty. And then I decided she was going
to take a rest. And I decided to follow a
trail away from the main cliffs to see what was
beyond the next rise. I was looking for more stunning
cliff views. I came to a black gate on the trail.
Usually the trails open and it continued on the other side.
(21:17):
I couldn't get over there. I wanted to see the
view on the other side. The rise was right there,
so I of course I did. I climbed over the
rail and up onto the grass to try and see
and I couldn't.
S2 (21:29):
What's your middle name? David Perry. David LaHaye. What were
you thinking?
S4 (21:35):
Well, wait till you hear the next part. All right,
I said to the people who'd come up on the
other side of the trail. What's over the rise? And
I saw them grabbing their phones and I think. Google translate, whatever.
They couldn't speak English.
S2 (21:49):
Okay.
S4 (21:50):
So I could have made it to the other side
of the trail at great risk of life where the,
you know, the fence ended. It was there were these
three rocks and then a like a 700 foot drop.
And I decided, no, that's not a that's not a
good idea.
S2 (22:07):
Good for you. Good choices.
S4 (22:09):
Yeah. So just then one of the park workers yelled
at me, get down! It was a young Irish woman
and I was offended. I wanted to see the other side.
She kept telling me, get down! And I kept asking.
I just want to see what's on the other side.
Can you tell? At least tell me what's over there?
(22:29):
And no, she was just all about. Get off there.
It's against the law and you're risking your life. And
so I was chastised and I jumped back on the trail,
thoroughly offended.
S2 (22:42):
Oh, no.
S4 (22:43):
And walked away in a huff. And just then, I mean, boom.
The Holy Spirit convicted me of my sin. Go back
and apologize. Really? Yes. Go back and apologize, Perry. So
I went back, and I found this young woman. And
when she was finished talking with someone else, I said, ma'am,
(23:05):
forgive me for being so unkind. You're doing a great job.
And she was taken aback. She looked. She looked down
at her chest as she said, thank you. Which I
don't know why. She looked down. It was kind of.
She looked ashamed in a way. But I know for
sure she was shocked when I, you know, offered that apology.
(23:30):
But I think that mostly it was because she had
experienced the presence of God through unexpected kindness.
S2 (23:37):
Oh. Come on.
S4 (23:38):
It was the last thing in the world that she expected.
S2 (23:40):
Sure. For you to come back after that little interaction
back and forth. That's just so funny. I can picture
you perched up where you're not supposed to be halfway over,
and she says, get down. And instead of getting down
and having a conversation with her, you don't get down.
S4 (23:54):
You just stand.
S2 (23:55):
There, the other side. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, I'm
sure that was unexpected for her. But I'll tell you what.
Kindness has wrecked my life in the best possible way ever.
I'm so moved by kindness. I feel like it's the
most underrated power in the world today.
S4 (24:12):
Yeah, it truly is a superpower. And I saw her
hit with that superpower. And you know what the beautiful
thing is, is that I had been unkind. You know,
I had been unkind to her, but I still, the
Lord still gave me a chance to show kindness. Isn't
that amazing about the Lord in our lives? That even
(24:35):
when we blow it. and we make it right. We
get a do over. It's. It's just. I love the
Lord so much.
S2 (24:44):
I do too. It reconciles reconciliation. Like that's what he
is all about. He's a relational God. He invites us
not into religion, but into a personal relationship with him.
And relationships need reconciliation. We need that. And I'm telling
you what kindness is the bridge that can get us
to reconciliation and repair relationship. We need to learn to
(25:08):
repair relationship.
S4 (25:09):
Yes. And it doesn't take a long time, you know,
in this case, to say some words that set things right.
And so your mission today, should you choose to accept it,
is to show unexpected kindness and to see the presence
of God work through it today.
S2 (25:35):
God's grace is enough. There's a prayer that I've been
praying for a long time. A hardship or, you know,
heartache that I long for God to change. And I
follow his lead. And I seek his wisdom while I
wait for the healing to come. And if I'm honest, shoot.
This is not the kind of thing that you admit
out loud, but I'm just going to pull back the
(25:55):
curtain a minute and tell you. Sometimes I feel like
God's not doing his part. Like I'm faithfully praying and
I'm being obedient to how he's asking me to move
in this situation. And I'm not seeing a breakthrough.
S4 (26:08):
Yeah, I totally get this. I have I've talked about
my suffering friend and it's been decades. I was just
praying for him this morning. I pray for him every
morning on the way in and just asking for restoration
and renewal and transformation and healing and and the healing
of his mind and his spirit and his soul and
(26:28):
his body. And, you know, there have been times when
I've felt like it's just it's not going anywhere.
S2 (26:36):
Right? I mean, there are times when it's just like, God,
when are you going to come through? When are you
going to show up? And it's I think behind that
is kind of this mentality that I actually believe that
God is supposed to fix my problems like I do. What,
you know, I'm faithful, I'm obedient, I do my thing.
Your part is to make my life easy. I mean,
(26:57):
that's not obviously that's that's not gospel. That's not you're
not going to find that in the Bible. It's not true.
S4 (27:05):
Yeah. Like if I pray enough, God, I, I deserve
to have this answered in the time that I wanted answered.
S2 (27:12):
You know what? Even go upstream from that, Perry. I
think we think I shouldn't have problems. I mean, I
gave my life to Jesus, so I shouldn't have problems anymore.
S4 (27:23):
I'm going to go upstream from that. No, I'm just kidding.
S2 (27:27):
I think honestly. Okay, so I've been thinking about this
over the last few days. And I think that when
we're Seeking something that doesn't exist to provide for us,
something that we need. That's idolatry, right? I mean, we
want the perfect marriage. We want 2.5 kids, the right car,
the right house in the right location, the right salary,
(27:47):
the right body, the right schedule, the right all the things.
S4 (27:51):
That pour to that poor point five.
S2 (27:53):
Kid. I know half of a child, but no one
really wants to deal with the heartache and the suffering
that life brings our way. And Jesus, I love his
honesty with us. I love these a straight shooter. He said,
in this world you're going to have trouble, you know?
But he does say, take heart, because I have overcome
the world. So I think when we deal with any
kind of a suffering or heartache, especially long suffering, we
(28:19):
can kind of get to the question, God, what are
you doing? Or are you doing nothing because it seems
like nothing. When I think that the question that really
we should be asking in those moments is, God, what
are you doing in me?
S4 (28:35):
Yeah. For sure. And he is working in us through
the waiting. I also think that he wants us to
keep on praying. There's a passage where Jesus says, When
the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on
the earth? And I think it's in the context of
of praying and not ever stopping our prayers and asking
(28:58):
God for justice. So. So like when Jesus comes again,
if he were to come in my lifetime today, would
he find me still having faith to pray for my
suffering friend and believe that God is going to redeem
his story?
S2 (29:13):
Yeah, and I would not be an advocate for stop praying.
That is not what I'm saying at all. I'm not saying,
you know, give up on what God on what's on
your heart and what you want to see God do.
But I think that we can also ask the question, God,
what are you doing in me? We I think we
talked about this last week, but, you know, the storms
of life come up and there's both a buffalo and
(29:34):
a cow can. They've got the spidey sense that they
know a storm is coming, but they have very different
reactions to it. And the cow will run away from
the storm, and the buffalo will run into the storm.
And the buffalo's experience of running into the storm actually
shortens the distance of the storm. Because the storm is
moving one direction, he's moving the other as he goes
right through it. Where the cows experiences longer. We can't
(29:58):
manipulate God's timing on when he's going to answer our prayers.
But I think it is helpful to ask the question,
what do you want me to know right now? Like,
what do you want me to know about me? What
do you want me to know about you? About your
character as I walk through this? Because he's the spirit
of truth and he loves us. He wants us to
know the truth. He's not withholding truth from us. I'm
(30:21):
doing a Bible study right now by Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth.
It's called Lies Women Believe. And there's this quote in there.
This is what Nancy says no one really wants to
deal with suffering and heartache, but our wise, loving Heavenly
Father says, I have a good, beautiful purpose in all
of this. I want to use your pain and your
problems to change you and to reveal my grace and
(30:43):
my power to the world. When we focus on our circumstances,
our problems seem larger than life. They seem huge, and
God seems small and distant when we focus on the problems.
But when we focus on God, when we shift our focus,
the things of the world grow strangely dim in the
(31:03):
light of his glory and his grace. His grace is sufficient.
His grace is enough.
S1 (31:10):
Thanks for letting Barry and Shawna walk the real life
journey with you. The content from the podcast comes from
their live show Barry and Shana Mornings on 89.3 Moody Radio,
Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to us by texting 800
968 8930 and please subscribe.
It's the Ferry and Shawna podcast on the real life
journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved
child and that Jesus has called you into his massive
mission to heal the world.
S2 (00:19):
Well, maybe you know what it's like to be triggered
and to get angry. When I was a little girl,
I dreamed of growing up and getting married and becoming
a mom. I was going to be the best mom ever.
I studied the What to Expect When You're Expecting book
when I got pregnant. Literally like like my Bible, it
was highlighted. It was dog eared. It was underlined with
notes in the notes along the side. And I had
(00:41):
lots of experience of babysitting. So in many ways I
was pretty intuitive with my newborn. But when she was
about eight months old, we ended up having just a really,
really rough night and I totally lost my patience with her.
I'm telling you, this baby cried and cried and cried
and cried. And no matter what I did, she just
(01:02):
wouldn't stop. And so I walked into her room and
I put her in her crib. I mean, I put
her there, I was it wasn't like gentle mama. I
put her in her crib and I walked out of
the room, and I was so angry at my baby,
and I thought, oh my gosh, who am I? This
is not the mom that I thought I would be.
S3 (01:23):
Yes, I so understand that, Shauna. I'm telling you, I
had some of those similar moments and there are a
lot of us, I think, that relate to what you
just shared, because we have this idea and this dream
of the kind of parent we're going to be, and
then those trigger moments happen and we sort of pile
on all this guilt and shame and we think, oh
my goodness, is this how it's going to be forever?
(01:45):
And that can be overwhelming, too.
S2 (01:47):
Yeah.
S4 (01:48):
Amber Lee is with us. She's a bestselling author. Her
latest book is untriggered 60 Days of Transformation for Moms
Who Struggle with Anger. Why do we get angry? Why
do we get triggered? You know, in Shauna's case, it's
a little baby. Doesn't really know their left from their right.
But we do get triggered by the littlest of things.
(02:09):
And sometimes the biggest things. What's underneath that?
S3 (02:12):
Well, there are a lot of different triggers that many
of us will struggle with. And sometimes when kids are
very young, it's those external things like just the exhaustion, right?
The things that really don't have anything to do necessarily
with our child's behavior. And then as they get a
little bit older, we start to see them having these tantrums.
Or they're a teenager and we these we see them
talking back to us or being irresponsible. And that can
(02:35):
be a trigger. So anything that elicits a strong reaction,
an emotional reaction in us as parents is a trigger.
And every age and stage of childhood is going to
be shifting. And so we we could be in a
perpetual state of feeling offended or feeling defensive or feeling
angry and frustrated. And we have to get a grasp
(02:57):
on this, because if we're going to live life to
the full right as God designed, if we want to
feel like, yes, I know how to do this parenting
thing and to create the kind of home that I
dream of and that God lays out in Scripture, there
has to be a way for us to manage these triggers.
And there is.
S2 (03:12):
When did you discover that this was a part of
your journey? Obviously, to be able to write a book
about it, you've discovered this about yourself. What's your story? Amber.
S3 (03:22):
You know, when my first three kids were ages four
and under, my husband moved us to the central coast
of California. So I was in a small town. It
was new, so there was this big transition. I didn't
have a lot of support. Um, it was a lot of,
you know, new church, new neighborhood, all the things. So
(03:43):
everything was sort of bewildering. And then my kids weren't
sleeping well, and I had left a job that I loved,
and I loved being with my kids, but I also
felt like such a fish out of water that that
was sort of my my turning point when I realized
I'm angry all the time. I'm frustrated all the time,
I'm snapping all the time. And I love my kids
(04:03):
and I love the Lord. What is wrong with me?
So then I felt all this shame and the guilt,
and I just remember one day my husband going off
to work, turning around, snapping at my kids. Neighbor knocks
on the door to return something and I freeze and
I think, oh my gosh, did they just hear me snapping?
And that was embarrassing enough for me to go, okay, Lord,
I'm done. I can't keep doing this and I need
(04:24):
you to help me. And that was really my turning
point when I realized I needed to study the Word
of God. What does it say about anger? And I've
got to start making some practical changes so that I
can be the mom that I know God wants me
to be.
S4 (04:38):
Forgiving our kids when they've blown it. When my brother
Nate was in high school, he and a friend got
a quote unquote brilliant idea. They decided to hide in
the trees and shoot at passing cars with a pellet gun.
One driver's car was hit and he chased Nate and
his friend down. And my dad got a call from
(05:00):
the police station. My dad went down to the police
station and brought Nate home, and I don't know what
was said in the car, but when they got home,
my dad said, Nate, I think you've learned your lesson.
I can see that getting caught has chastened you. You're forgiven.
You know the right path. We don't need to talk
of this again. Amber, take me to a moment when
(05:22):
you offered grace instead of anger to one of your kids.
S3 (05:26):
You know, there have had to be many opportunities for
me to offer grace. Because kids are naturally in a
state of maturing. And that takes time, right? So we're
always going to be faced with opportunities to give our
kids grace. And I have to continually remind myself that
God gives me grace continually as well. And so that
(05:47):
enables me to offer it back to them. But, you know,
not just recently. And this can be any age and stage,
but my boys have learned to be pretty obedient. You know,
they they know that it's going to go well with them.
And I remember just recently, this is this is key
to know the kind of age and stage and development
what's going on with your child. Because this was really
(06:08):
helpful for me in offering grace. So I have a
teenager who is pretty compliant, and his job was to
mow the lawn. And I asked him one day it
was late in the afternoon. He'd been, you know, done
his schoolwork. He'd been to practice. I knew he was tired,
but he came in the door and I said, hey, buddy,
it's your turn to mow the lawn. I need you
to hop out there and do the thing. And and
(06:30):
he turned the corner and started walking up the stairs
and just turned around to me and said, no, just
that that was it. That was the only thing. Just no,
there was no discussion or hey, could I do it
later or I'm really tired. It was just no. And
it was like forceful. And I was like, I'm not
used to this. Like, what do you mean? No? And
I started to feel my body stiffen. Right. My shoulders
(06:52):
go back and the hands start to make their way
up to my head. Yeah. And I start to go
up the stairs to follow him. And then it looks
like the Holy Spirit just stopped me and was like, Amber,
you don't have to fix this right now. You be
aware of where he's at. You have no idea what
maybe just happened with a friend, a conversation he had
with somebody else. You know, who knows what's happened. Show
(07:13):
him some grace right now and some compassion. Let him go.
He went upstairs, took a nap, fell asleep, was refreshed,
came back down. And before I could even reprimand him
in any way, he said to me, mama, I apologize
for earlier. I was really tired. And he went on
to tell me what kind of the back story was.
And you know what? I understand I can make room
for that in our relationship. And so sometimes it's just
(07:35):
knowing your kid, knowing the environment, or even just stopping
and letting them have a nap so that you can
come back and talk to them at a time that's
much more teachable, where you can actually still preserve your
relationship instead of matching their defiance with your anger.
S2 (07:53):
Kids are different. God made our kids different on purpose.
And I think one of the things that works against
us in the world that we live in today in parenting,
is just social media and comparison. But I tell you what,
I was raising my kids before that all happened. And
I had a I have a sister in law that
had a baby that was born like five weeks before
(08:13):
my daughter was. So the two of them were really,
really close. So we took the girls to the botanical
gardens for the day, and her daughter just held her
hand and was so excited to see all the things.
She would point at the pretty flowers and say, pretty
mama pretty. And she's like, yes, aren't they beautiful? My
daughter was running around picking flowers and bringing them to me,
(08:34):
which is frowned upon at the Botanical Garden at the
Botanical Gardens, FYI. And it's not because I was negligent.
It's not because I wasn't a good mom or didn't
read the poster that said, don't pick the flowers. It's
just they were different kids. My daughter was so curious
and so busy and I thought, what is wrong with me?
(08:54):
What am I doing wrong? That her daughter seems to
be so content and compliant, and my daughter seems to
be all over the place. Amber, talk about the differences
in personalities among our kids.
S3 (09:06):
Oh man Shauna I relate to that so much. And
you know, I have four boys and we call our
home a testosterone home.
S5 (09:14):
Affectionately because that's definitely what it is.
S3 (09:17):
Um, and they are all alike in some ways and
yet very different from each other. And I think this
is the beauty of listening to parents who have gone
ahead of you a little bit so that they can see,
you know, you can kind of see how those different
personalities like that strong will or their curiosity develops into
who God is designing them to be. And I think
(09:38):
as parents, sometimes we just want it a little bit easier.
We want the personalities to, you know, not clash with ours.
We want to see the end result. And really it's
important for us to just be present in today. What
can I actually celebrate about my child instead of comparing
them to others or to myself and how I might
(09:59):
do things. And when you celebrate their uniqueness, you leave
room for God to do the good work that he's
going to do in them. We can't all be the same.
We don't want every child to look exactly like the
next one. It shouldn't be that way. And thank the
Lord it's not. And so for me, the mindset shift
to stop being triggered by that was to celebrate who
(10:23):
they are uniquely and to trust and leave room for
God to develop that into who he needs and wants
them to be, to fulfill his purpose in life, not
just make my life a little bit less triggered today.
S2 (10:36):
In regards to the different personalities. Amber, there are certain
personalities that push our buttons more than others. You know,
I can see how some of the kids are more
like dad and where they kind of bump heads. It's like, oh,
it's because y'all are alike that way. And with me,
it's the same thing. So talk about that kind of
being triggered and seeing yourself in your kids.
S3 (10:58):
Well, you know, it's a double edged sword, isn't it?
Like it's so delightful to see your child replicating you. Like,
this is part of the exciting part of just your
legacy of what God is doing. And then they can
absolutely rub you the wrong way. And I like to
think of it as, you know, this is like sandpaper
and sandpaper smooths the rough edges. Right? So if we
(11:20):
can look at the these things where we're clashing or
it feels like sandpaper, we're up against a child's personality
and we start to think of it as no. This
is a refining process for me. I get to grow
in being patient. Every trigger really, ultimately is an opportunity.
You know, it's an opportunity for me to see. Do
I need to just maybe give my child a little
(11:40):
bit more coaching and training here? Do they have some
maturing that they need to do, or do I need
to grow in being more thankful for the situation that
I'm in right now with my child, hard as it
may be. What is the good that God is going
to do from that? To have hope and to build
in my faith. It's an opportunity for me to demonstrate
the fruit of the spirit. That's what parenting ultimately is.
(12:02):
It's looking at our children as the gift that they are,
and knowing this is why I'm here right now. It's
not for me to be totally at peace because there's
no problems. We're going to have trouble in this world.
The point is for me to lovingly point my kids
to the Lord, and to be the hands and feet
of Jesus to them in every situation. That's why we're here,
and it's a privilege to do that.
S4 (12:23):
Give us one real life way that a mom can
shift her response from an anger, a triggered anger response
to a Jesus response.
S3 (12:35):
You know, one of my favorite verses is the verse
that talks about, you know, being quick to listen and
slow to speak. Right. And then there's all these wonderful
verses about that. A gentle answer turns away wrath. Right.
And the teaching of kindness is on her tongue. And so,
just very practically, I found that I often got myself
into trouble when I was way too fast with my
(12:56):
words and even my assumptions, because sometimes two kids are
tangling with each other and I don't see the full picture.
And then I've over disciplined or disciplined the wrong kid. Right.
Have you ever done that?
S5 (13:06):
Oh, yeah.
S3 (13:06):
So for me, yeah, I like to call it a
holy pause, where I just stop in the moment and
really take a breath. You know, you can research breathing techniques,
but I like to do a box breathing technique where
I just literally like, hey, everybody, let's just breathe for
a second and then we can talk about this and
I'll just breathe for four seconds. Hold it. Just let
(13:26):
it out, allow the physiological response in my brain and
body to calm for a second. And then even just
a quick prayer, I'll just be like, Lord, I don't
know what's going on here, but I just need your
help in this moment. And sometimes I say that to
my kids. I don't even know what to do right now,
but I know who does. And so I'm just going
to pray about this for a minute. Not everything has
(13:47):
to be dealt with immediately, and certainly not when I'm
out of control. As a mom, I got to get
control of myself first before I can try to control
my kids. So that holy pause is a really good,
practical way of going about that.
S2 (13:59):
Here's the thing. God can meet you in that moment.
And I think even too, you know, you had said Amber,
that not everything needs to be solved. Like in a moment.
We can even say to our kids, like, I don't
even know what I'm going to do with this situation,
but I know that I love you and that's not
going to change. So let's just take a minute and
we'll circle back to this. I really want to spend
some time with the Lord and see what he has
to say.
S4 (14:24):
I let my anger get the best of me with
my precious daughter. When my daughter Kaylee was about two,
she didn't want to go to bed. She didn't want
to miss out on what was happening. So one night
we had put her to bed and again she wanted
to be out with us. We put her back in
bed and closed the door. She came to her door
(14:45):
and just banged on it again and again. Bang bang bang.
And my anger got the best of me. And I
went in and I spanked her in anger. And that
was the night I vowed never again will I discipline
in anger. Amber talked to the mom or dad who
(15:06):
feels like they've done too much damage to their kids
in anger.
S3 (15:11):
You know, Perry and Shawna, I am so thankful that
we're being transparent and vulnerable in talking about this topic
because for so long I felt a lot of shame
and guilt and I thought, is it even too late
for me? You know, even though my kids were little,
I just thought, I don't know if I can change
and I don't know if this is, you know, left
(15:31):
its mark on my children's hearts. And the good news is,
all these years later is, first of all, our kids
are very forgiving of us. They tend to be overwhelmingly gracious,
I have found, but it's super important to recognize that
the enemy is going to want to erode our relationships
(15:51):
with our within our family. That's part of his tactic.
And he comes to destroy. And yet Jesus comes to
give us life and life to the full. And so,
you know, Jesus already paid for all of our sin.
There's no more condemnation for you, angry mom. Angry dad.
I like to raise my hand and say hi. You know,
my name is Amber Leah and I'm a recovering, angry mom.
(16:13):
And if I can admit that, Perry, if you can
admit that about yourself as a dad, then you know
it gives us freedom to just breathe and recognize this
is not the totality of who we are. We're not
the sum of the past mistakes or even our sins.
And so, you know, Psalm 103 talks about how God
has removed our sins as far as the East is
(16:33):
from the West talks about how he has compassion like
a father on his children. That's us as parents. We're
his children. He's tender and he knows how weak we are.
He remembers that we are but dust. He takes all
of that into account. So listen, it's never too late.
It's always best to just. What's the next right thing.
What can I do today? I may not be able
(16:55):
to change what happened yesterday, but I can just take
it three hours at a time.
S5 (17:00):
Come on. Sometimes just one hour.
S3 (17:01):
At a time, right? One hour at a time. What
can I do in the next hour to do what
is right? I apologized to my kids a lot. I
would even stop in the middle of starting to say
the wrong thing.
S5 (17:10):
Well hold on. Sorry. Yep.
S3 (17:12):
I'm learning.
S5 (17:13):
I'm learning.
S3 (17:13):
I tell my kids I'm learning to not do this anymore.
And so I apologize. Let me start again. And so
just doing the next right thing and recognizing that there's
no more guilt for you mom or dad, there isn't.
But let's be accountable to the future and to our
children and to the Lord, and just lean in on
(17:34):
what's next right in front of me.
S2 (17:36):
Here's the thing I think you know, right out the gate. Amber,
you get me? I'm. You know what I mean? I'm
I don't feel like I'm going to walk in and
receive judgment. Can you share just a little bit of
encouragement for moms who, you know, you had shared a
story of kind of your anger being exposed, and then
that was the impetus to start. But just the importance
(17:56):
of walking this journey with other moms and and not
being silent in the way that anger is displayed in
your home.
S3 (18:03):
You know, I didn't ever really want to talk about
this topic. Um, and years ago I asked someone someone
asked me if I would be open to just, you know,
starting a Facebook group, like a support group for moms.
And I was like, I pushed it off for a
long time. And, you know, when I started that Facebook group,
a thousand moms joined in the first week and it
(18:23):
grew to like 17,000 moms. And then that was like
my clue, like, okay, um, Amber, you're not the only one.
And the need is very high. And so I think
that's important that there really is an epidemic. Like, it's
just something that a lot of people don't feel comfortable
talking about. And so I want to destigmatize that, and
I want us to feel free, because the Bible also
(18:44):
says that healing comes when we confess, right? Like, we
have to first acknowledge that the healing does come, but
we have to acknowledge the reality of the issue. And
then we need to band together and help each other.
And there's a lot of compassion because there's no judgment
from me. You all know, you know, that Shawna and
Perry and I, we're we've been a mess, so there's
(19:04):
no judgment. And this book is full of compassion and
loving kindness because that's what I experienced that day when
I shut that door on my neighbor and I said, Lord,
transform me. Um, he took me through that process. But
it was his compassion that I felt the most. And
that's what I want to come through in the pages
of that book, and I hope that it does, and
I hope they feel that way after listening to our conversation.
S4 (19:26):
I am so encouraged because we've gotten to honestly talk
about our failures, but also to talk about the gospel.
S2 (19:33):
And the grace.
S4 (19:35):
Yeah. You know, it's it's being able to preach the
gospel to ourselves and to one another. And we need
to do this every single day, I need it. I
don't know about you. When we offer unexpected kindness to people,
they experience the presence of God. On our third day
(19:55):
in Ireland. It's a lovely place on Theresa's and my
trip of a lifetime. For our 40th anniversary, we made
it to the Cliffs of Moher. You've probably heard of
the Cliffs of Moher?
S2 (20:08):
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I've not been, but I've just heard.
S4 (20:12):
It's a stunning view of the Atlantic Ocean, set against
700 foot tall, jutting cliffs and on the top of
the cliffs, it's all green grass. So you have this.
You have the ocean, the blue of the ocean, the
dark of the cliffs, and then the beautiful green topped,
you know, grass on top of the cliffs. It's just amazing.
S2 (20:35):
It's the image that comes to mind when you say Ireland.
S4 (20:38):
Right. Yeah, Exactly. Everything there is green right now. It's spring,
just like here. And these are, by the way, the
cliffs of insanity in The Princess Bride.
S2 (20:49):
Inconceivable, inconceivable. I do not think that means what you
think it means.
S4 (20:54):
They shot it there. So anyway, Theresa and I took
in the beauty. And then I decided she was going
to take a rest. And I decided to follow a
trail away from the main cliffs to see what was
beyond the next rise. I was looking for more stunning
cliff views. I came to a black gate on the trail.
Usually the trails open and it continued on the other side.
(21:17):
I couldn't get over there. I wanted to see the
view on the other side. The rise was right there,
so I of course I did. I climbed over the
rail and up onto the grass to try and see
and I couldn't.
S2 (21:29):
What's your middle name? David Perry. David LaHaye. What were
you thinking?
S4 (21:35):
Well, wait till you hear the next part. All right,
I said to the people who'd come up on the
other side of the trail. What's over the rise? And
I saw them grabbing their phones and I think. Google translate, whatever.
They couldn't speak English.
S2 (21:49):
Okay.
S4 (21:50):
So I could have made it to the other side
of the trail at great risk of life where the,
you know, the fence ended. It was there were these
three rocks and then a like a 700 foot drop.
And I decided, no, that's not a that's not a
good idea.
S2 (22:07):
Good for you. Good choices.
S4 (22:09):
Yeah. So just then one of the park workers yelled
at me, get down! It was a young Irish woman
and I was offended. I wanted to see the other side.
She kept telling me, get down! And I kept asking.
I just want to see what's on the other side.
Can you tell? At least tell me what's over there?
(22:29):
And no, she was just all about. Get off there.
It's against the law and you're risking your life. And
so I was chastised and I jumped back on the trail,
thoroughly offended.
S2 (22:42):
Oh, no.
S4 (22:43):
And walked away in a huff. And just then, I mean, boom.
The Holy Spirit convicted me of my sin. Go back
and apologize. Really? Yes. Go back and apologize, Perry. So
I went back, and I found this young woman. And
when she was finished talking with someone else, I said, ma'am,
(23:05):
forgive me for being so unkind. You're doing a great job.
And she was taken aback. She looked. She looked down
at her chest as she said, thank you. Which I
don't know why. She looked down. It was kind of.
She looked ashamed in a way. But I know for
sure she was shocked when I, you know, offered that apology.
(23:30):
But I think that mostly it was because she had
experienced the presence of God through unexpected kindness.
S2 (23:37):
Oh. Come on.
S4 (23:38):
It was the last thing in the world that she expected.
S2 (23:40):
Sure. For you to come back after that little interaction
back and forth. That's just so funny. I can picture
you perched up where you're not supposed to be halfway over,
and she says, get down. And instead of getting down
and having a conversation with her, you don't get down.
S4 (23:54):
You just stand.
S2 (23:55):
There, the other side. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, I'm
sure that was unexpected for her. But I'll tell you what.
Kindness has wrecked my life in the best possible way ever.
I'm so moved by kindness. I feel like it's the
most underrated power in the world today.
S4 (24:12):
Yeah, it truly is a superpower. And I saw her
hit with that superpower. And you know what the beautiful
thing is, is that I had been unkind. You know,
I had been unkind to her, but I still, the
Lord still gave me a chance to show kindness. Isn't
that amazing about the Lord in our lives? That even
(24:35):
when we blow it. and we make it right. We
get a do over. It's. It's just. I love the
Lord so much.
S2 (24:44):
I do too. It reconciles reconciliation. Like that's what he
is all about. He's a relational God. He invites us
not into religion, but into a personal relationship with him.
And relationships need reconciliation. We need that. And I'm telling
you what kindness is the bridge that can get us
to reconciliation and repair relationship. We need to learn to
(25:08):
repair relationship.
S4 (25:09):
Yes. And it doesn't take a long time, you know,
in this case, to say some words that set things right.
And so your mission today, should you choose to accept it,
is to show unexpected kindness and to see the presence
of God work through it today.
S2 (25:35):
God's grace is enough. There's a prayer that I've been
praying for a long time. A hardship or, you know,
heartache that I long for God to change. And I
follow his lead. And I seek his wisdom while I
wait for the healing to come. And if I'm honest, shoot.
This is not the kind of thing that you admit
out loud, but I'm just going to pull back the
(25:55):
curtain a minute and tell you. Sometimes I feel like
God's not doing his part. Like I'm faithfully praying and
I'm being obedient to how he's asking me to move
in this situation. And I'm not seeing a breakthrough.
S4 (26:08):
Yeah, I totally get this. I have I've talked about
my suffering friend and it's been decades. I was just
praying for him this morning. I pray for him every
morning on the way in and just asking for restoration
and renewal and transformation and healing and and the healing
of his mind and his spirit and his soul and
(26:28):
his body. And, you know, there have been times when
I've felt like it's just it's not going anywhere.
S2 (26:36):
Right? I mean, there are times when it's just like, God,
when are you going to come through? When are you
going to show up? And it's I think behind that
is kind of this mentality that I actually believe that
God is supposed to fix my problems like I do. What,
you know, I'm faithful, I'm obedient, I do my thing.
Your part is to make my life easy. I mean,
(26:57):
that's not obviously that's that's not gospel. That's not you're
not going to find that in the Bible. It's not true.
S4 (27:05):
Yeah. Like if I pray enough, God, I, I deserve
to have this answered in the time that I wanted answered.
S2 (27:12):
You know what? Even go upstream from that, Perry. I
think we think I shouldn't have problems. I mean, I
gave my life to Jesus, so I shouldn't have problems anymore.
S4 (27:23):
I'm going to go upstream from that. No, I'm just kidding.
S2 (27:27):
I think honestly. Okay, so I've been thinking about this
over the last few days. And I think that when
we're Seeking something that doesn't exist to provide for us,
something that we need. That's idolatry, right? I mean, we
want the perfect marriage. We want 2.5 kids, the right car,
the right house in the right location, the right salary,
(27:47):
the right body, the right schedule, the right all the things.
S4 (27:51):
That pour to that poor point five.
S2 (27:53):
Kid. I know half of a child, but no one
really wants to deal with the heartache and the suffering
that life brings our way. And Jesus, I love his
honesty with us. I love these a straight shooter. He said,
in this world you're going to have trouble, you know?
But he does say, take heart, because I have overcome
the world. So I think when we deal with any
kind of a suffering or heartache, especially long suffering, we
(28:19):
can kind of get to the question, God, what are
you doing? Or are you doing nothing because it seems
like nothing. When I think that the question that really
we should be asking in those moments is, God, what
are you doing in me?
S4 (28:35):
Yeah. For sure. And he is working in us through
the waiting. I also think that he wants us to
keep on praying. There's a passage where Jesus says, When
the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on
the earth? And I think it's in the context of
of praying and not ever stopping our prayers and asking
(28:58):
God for justice. So. So like when Jesus comes again,
if he were to come in my lifetime today, would
he find me still having faith to pray for my
suffering friend and believe that God is going to redeem
his story?
S2 (29:13):
Yeah, and I would not be an advocate for stop praying.
That is not what I'm saying at all. I'm not saying,
you know, give up on what God on what's on
your heart and what you want to see God do.
But I think that we can also ask the question, God,
what are you doing in me? We I think we
talked about this last week, but, you know, the storms
of life come up and there's both a buffalo and
(29:34):
a cow can. They've got the spidey sense that they
know a storm is coming, but they have very different
reactions to it. And the cow will run away from
the storm, and the buffalo will run into the storm.
And the buffalo's experience of running into the storm actually
shortens the distance of the storm. Because the storm is
moving one direction, he's moving the other as he goes
right through it. Where the cows experiences longer. We can't
(29:58):
manipulate God's timing on when he's going to answer our prayers.
But I think it is helpful to ask the question,
what do you want me to know right now? Like,
what do you want me to know about me? What
do you want me to know about you? About your
character as I walk through this? Because he's the spirit
of truth and he loves us. He wants us to
know the truth. He's not withholding truth from us. I'm
(30:21):
doing a Bible study right now by Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth.
It's called Lies Women Believe. And there's this quote in there.
This is what Nancy says no one really wants to
deal with suffering and heartache, but our wise, loving Heavenly
Father says, I have a good, beautiful purpose in all
of this. I want to use your pain and your
problems to change you and to reveal my grace and
(30:43):
my power to the world. When we focus on our circumstances,
our problems seem larger than life. They seem huge, and
God seems small and distant when we focus on the problems.
But when we focus on God, when we shift our focus,
the things of the world grow strangely dim in the
(31:03):
light of his glory and his grace. His grace is sufficient.
His grace is enough.
S1 (31:10):
Thanks for letting Barry and Shawna walk the real life
journey with you. The content from the podcast comes from
their live show Barry and Shana Mornings on 89.3 Moody Radio,
Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to us by texting 800
968 8930 and please subscribe.
Popular Podcasts
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!