Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:03):
It's the Perry and Shawna podcast on the real life
journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved
child and that Jesus has called you into his massive
mission to heal the world.
S2 (00:17):
Our deepest needs are there so that we can find God.
We live knowing that we have unmet needs in our life.
But I think our orientation correct me if I'm wrong,
Doctor Crick, but I think our orientation is to look
at the people around us and go, I have an
unmet need. You're the answer. Go ahead. Go ahead. Meet
my needs. And you put a bunch of people in
(00:39):
a room. You put five people in a room. Whose
orientation is that? And you've got mass chaos. You've written
this book about us being created with these needs. Tell
me about God's intention for the needs. Is that our brokenness,
or is that his design?
S3 (00:55):
Oh, what a way to start. Yeah. So first of all,
thanks for having me back on the show. Really appreciate
you so much. I think that the needs are created
in us by God so that we will find him.
He is the ultimate solution to the major questions of life,
and until we find all of God, we will struggle.
We will be looking in counterfeit places to have real,
(01:16):
legitimate needs met. And I think we then substitute wants
for needs. And if you are driven by your wants,
I want to be popular. I want to be pretty.
I want to be, you know, Rich, it's going to
get you into big trouble. And, um, and we can
testify to that ourselves, probably where there was a season
when we were looking for something that would never satisfy.
So we do have five needs wired into us by
(01:37):
God that we would find him. And they're legit. They
can be solved. They can be solved in Christ security.
Who can I trust? We can trust God. Um, identity?
Who am I? God shows us who we are, and
we are who we are because of who he's made
us to be. So when we search the Scripture and
we seek his presence and his wisdom, we'll have a
greater confidence in this created, intentional being that we are.
(01:58):
And then we have a need for belonging. Who wants me?
And God does just the way we are. We don't
have to clean up our act. We are wanted. He
created us that we would have fellowship with him, which
is so remarkable. And then purpose. Why am I alive?
To serve and glorify God, to make Jesus known, to
become more like Christ? Our purpose is not again, popularity, beauty, class, rank.
Those are things that we can achieve because God is good.
(02:19):
But they won't satisfy us. And then we have a
need for competence and competence. What do I do? Well,
not perfectly perfect has been done. His name is Jesus,
and we have a terrible problem in our culture with
parents who are expecting children to be perfect and people
who only feel good when they are, you know, error free.
It's not possible. Competence. What do I do? Well springs
(02:40):
from purpose. People who are apathetic and don't want to
do anything well are lacking purpose. So those are the
five needs there in that order on purpose. And God
meets them and we are broken. Sadly, there is a
sin nature and that is why we are seeking counterfeit
false hope when God is the one who will satisfy us.
S2 (02:59):
And we do look to one another often instead of
looking to the Lord to meet those needs. Can you
talk a little bit about are there healthy ways to
do that to meet these needs in one another or
or not?
S3 (03:11):
That's a great question. Yes, yes, God creates us for
the vertical relationship with him primarily. And praise the Lord.
He creates us for horizontal relationships, even you and I.
You know, I used to be on the show a lot.
We developed a relationship. It's great to be back with you.
And so we can have a security with each other.
Why did you invite me back? You. You apparently think that,
you know, I can handle this and, you know, share
(03:31):
something that's, you know, wise and wonderful for your listeners.
And I thank you for that. So, yes, we can
be a source of strength to meet the needs. Um,
favorite answers for children would be an example of, you know, security.
Who can I trust? My mom and dad. Like they
remember my name. They usually call me by the right name,
you know, and they pick me up.
S2 (03:49):
Eventually when we get through the whole line, we start
at the oldest and we get through. We're going to
get to you eventually.
S3 (03:55):
Yeah. I had a kid say, she never calls me
the dog. Like she at least never calls me the dog,
you know? But you know. Yeah. No, I can trust
my mom. You know, my dad provides, you know, identity.
Who am I? See those people over there like I'm
their daughter? Like that's a powerful thing. And then belonging.
Who wants me? I think my mom and dad want me.
I even think my older brother likes me. He likes
(04:16):
teaching me new games. I think mostly he likes me,
you know. And then, you know, purpose. Why am I alive?
I had a kid once say to me, um, Doctor Kathy,
I made my mommy and daddy a family like, before me.
They were just this. I guess they were a couple.
Is that what you call them? And then they had me.
And I made them a family, like that's what I did.
And then a child in the same circle of people said, dad, Kathy,
(04:39):
I'm the caboose. I finished my family and that was
that child's nickname. So you can, you know, you can
find purpose in love here on earth. Praise God actually.
And then competence. What do I do? Well, my dad
has taught me how to play soccer. And my mommy,
she helps me with my spelling words. Or an older
child might say, you know, my mom sits in the
(05:01):
living room when I practice my piano and she advises me,
and it's really helpful because I do want to improve.
So our family is significant. And friends, certainly the church
can be a source of meeting these needs as well.
S2 (05:17):
There have been a lot of times that I have
felt like my need to connect with another person is
about my brokenness. It's about this part of me that
is sinful. Instead of recognizing I'm made in God's image
and God made us to connect one to another.
S3 (05:32):
Yes, puzzle pieces that fit together. And you know, it's funny. Well,
maybe it's not funny, but a lot of teachers will
tell me that ADHD children find other ADHD children and
have a party in the corner. You know, um, you know,
I think we can be drawn to people who have
experienced what we've experienced. Nothing wrong with that. Friends who
have been divorced will find others who have been divorced
(05:55):
because they can share a story, and they can have
some empathy and some very legitimate compassion for each other.
And then I also want us to celebrate our strengths
and to find each other who have walked in this.
And let's remind our audience that although brokenness is real,
and it's a sad reality of our chaotic culture and
the nature of the evil one, he has lost the battle.
(06:15):
He is not victorious here. And those of us who
are Christ followers like not fire insurance Christians. I was
that for a while. I was saved on the way
to heaven, had not been discipled, didn't know much of
the word, didn't understand the the character of God in
Christ and who he wanted to be for me. But
those of us who truly know the Lord and are
following him, we are dead to sin and alive to
(06:36):
Christ Jesus. That's a biblical, you know, reality. And so
let's live in that authority, right? That we you know,
it's one of the reasons I talk to people about
do we love God enough to not sin? I don't
not sin because I know the law, I don't. I
work to not sin because I love God. I don't
want to break his heart. And that's part of my security, actually.
Now he'll never forsake me. He'll always forgive me. He'll
(06:58):
chooses to forget I've ever been in his presence with
my brokenness, my by sin. We don't have to go there, right?
S2 (07:03):
Yeah. He's so faithful to forgive us our sins and
then cleanse us from all unrighteousness. One of the top
five needs that we have in our life is our
need for security. There is a song by Leanna Crawford
called Still Waters. Psalm 23. Are you familiar with this song?
S3 (07:25):
Yes. Okay. Great song.
S2 (07:27):
The last lyric is. And by your still waters, I'm safe.
Every time I hear that song, every time I hear
that lyric. Something in my heart stops and I go.
I long for that. I want that I needed to
hear those words talk about security and our need. That
this being one of the core top five needs that
(07:48):
we have, that God created us with.
S3 (07:50):
Absolutely. And it's the foundation if if people picture this
as a ladder or a pyramid, it's the foundation. Again,
security is who can I trust? Not what can I trust.
Because things do fade away. We can't put our security
and our beauty, beauty, our income, our toys in the garage.
You know, our child is obedient. Therefore, I look good
and I'm secure. No. Ideally, we find our security in
(08:11):
in the character of Christ. The reality that God created
us and he didn't have to write like he chose
to make us to have fellowship with him. He had
to make people he had so much love to share.
But he didn't have to make you and me. But
he did. And he made us the way he did.
Can we rest in that? Um. So I used to
say I was too tall. I'm six one, and when
I was a child, I felt too tall. If I
(08:34):
continue to say I'm too tall, I'm denying the creative
intent of God. And I won't be secure. Right. Because
I don't think that being created by him was a
good thing. I can sit in the stillness of God
as my creator. When I believe that he did a
good job making me, me. And in our culture today,
I'm telling parents to use the noun creator and the
(08:54):
verb created more than they ever have before because we
have children trying to reinvent themselves. And, you know, we
can deconstruct and reconstruct, and it's a mess and it
doesn't work. We can sit in the silence. I also
like Psalm 46, verse ten, be still and know that
I am God. Can we be still? Just breathe deeply
(09:15):
and know that God is the God of the Bible
and he's on my side. That's security created in his
image for his glory, not my own. Jesus died for me.
How much more would he be willing to do? And
then the gift of the spirit write those of us
who are believers, we get the gift of the Holy
Spirit who chooses to be our constant companion and friend
and teacher. I love to tell people that if you
(09:35):
don't know Jesus yet, that's why the Bible is confusing.
Because we get the gift of the spirit who is
the teacher, and it will become clear. You don't have
to know it all to believe that you need a
Savior and that you love God that much. And so.
And then he convicts and oh my goodness, I don't
know about you, but there's goodness in that. I don't
want to be in denial. I don't want to break
God's heart. I want to be aware. No, I don't
(09:56):
I don't like being convicted. Like everybody hear me here like.
S4 (09:59):
I'm, you know.
S3 (10:00):
No. And yet I value that component of Christ. So
that's security. Do we know who God is, and do
we see that it is good that he is God,
the God of the Bible?
S2 (10:15):
I'm the youngest of four girls and they're great. Like
my sisters are amazing. One is really smart, one is
really athletic, and one is really beautiful. Well, that left
me wondering, what can I be? Who am I? How
do I fit in? Yeah. What's my thing? And that's
not just a childhood question. Or, you know, we want
(10:35):
to know who we are. Talk about identity as one
of our core needs.
S3 (10:41):
That's a great introduction. So again, if, if when you
were growing up, you had Jesus that it was easier
for you to have a talented, skilled, beautiful, you know,
set of siblings. Um, this is where, again, God meets
that need and we can rest in that hopefully, and
not be so jealous and distracted and competitive and comparison
minded and all of that. identity is who am I,
(11:02):
not who was I? We can't live in the past.
We do not need to keep throwing the past in
people's faces. Um. It's also not. Who do I want
to be? And that's part of purpose. Why am I alive?
We need to live in the moment. I don't know if,
you know, a lot of people don't remember their senior
year of high school because they weren't living that year.
They were already in their their post-high school experience. And
(11:23):
so but you have to pay attention to today because
today causes tomorrow. So who am I? Um, and it
needs to be complete. Know as much about yourself as
you possibly can. What is your intellectual identity? Your emotional identity.
Social identity. Physical identity and spiritual identity. And then is
it accurate? Don't let kids lie. Don't let adults lie.
(11:44):
If you have a friend or a spouse, an older sister,
a mother who is lying, you hear her say something
about herself that isn't true. You got to jump all
over that.
S4 (11:53):
Call it out.
S3 (11:53):
Identity controls behavior. Yeah. So if you're thinking, man, I'm stupid,
then you don't show up, you don't volunteer, you don't
believe in yourself, and life becomes a downward spiral, it's
got to be accurate. It's got to be current and
it's got to be complete. And so we listen to
each other and we listen to our own self-talk. Like,
are we building ourselves up and not not in a
(12:14):
prideful way, like part of identity is strength. Ephesians 210 declares,
we've been created in advance to do good works that
we would walk in them. You got to know your
strengths now. You don't talk about them. You use them.
You don't brag about them. You don't compare. You don't
put people down because you're stronger in one area than
they are. But you got to know your strengths. Otherwise
you don't do anything good for the glory of God.
And you don't affect culture in a positive way. So
(12:36):
part of identity is positive. And I would even say, Shawna,
positive language. Like, I don't like it when people say, well,
I'm fat. As an example, fat is a bully playground word.
S4 (12:48):
Come on.
S3 (12:48):
Um, I'm overweight is true and has a more positive spin.
It would even be better to say I am learning
healthier food habits, right? Which is a future orientation and
has something to do with this thing that I have,
which is weight that I don't want. So we can
listen to ourselves and listen to others and help them
develop a more positive identity. Who am I? Very, very important.
(13:11):
And it's rooted in security. We have an identity crisis
in our culture because we have a security crisis. If
you don't know who you can trust, you don't know
who you are.
S2 (13:19):
I'm hearing Doctor Kathy is it's so important that when
we ask the question, who am I that we are
telling ourselves the truth? Because you talked about that internal dialogue.
I'll tell you, it was probably a decade. I'm in
my mid 50s solidly, and it was probably a decade
ago when I realized there was a voice that was
talking to me that wasn't kind.
S3 (13:40):
I understand, I hear that a lot from women in particular.
S2 (13:43):
Yeah. And so we get lied to. And so it's
so important that when we're asking the question, who am
I that we're listening in the right places, that we're
listening for truth?
S3 (13:55):
Yes. One of the reasons to know the Bible, right.
And one of the, you know, we read the scripture
primarily to get to know God and His will and
his way for us. And yet we also get to
know ourselves. We're created in his image and there are
many statements in Scripture about us. We're chosen, adopted, deeply loved,
unconditionally valued. Um, the royal priesthood, a holy nation, you know,
(14:16):
created in his image, knit together in our mother's womb.
There's just so much about us in Scripture when we
choose to believe that for ourselves, we can silence the
liar and we can silence the lie. It's what helps
us discern truth.
S2 (14:32):
When my kids are all grown up, they live all
over the world. But when they were little, we had
taken a vacation. I think my oldest was probably she
was a preschooler, and then my son was a toddler
and we had taken a trip to California. I had
to leave from there to a business trip. So my
husband took the two kids to fly home, and he
got on the plane. And in that moment of boarding,
(14:54):
they were not happy children. And he got on the plane.
And this is southwest, probably where you pick your own
seat kind of thing. And he he gets on the
plane and these two kids are crying. He's got a toddler,
he's got a preschooler, and nobody's happy. And people are,
you know. Bug eyed, like looking at him. And he
realizes he's kind of a spectacle and the attention is
on him. So he goes, okay, who wants me? To which,
(15:18):
you know, there were not a lot of takers in
that moment. But that question, who wants me is a
question that needs to be answered. It lingers with us.
It's one of the core needs.
S3 (15:32):
I love the way that you communicated that. It is
a core need. People don't know that these are the
things that are driving their behavior. It is a belief
that we deserve to be wanted, that we do need
to connect. God creates us this way. I ask it,
who wants me, not who needs me? Part of the
problem with this question is people are trying to meet
their legitimate need for belonging by being needed. And when
(15:53):
I taught second graders Miss Cook, Miss Cook, Miss Cook,
I felt so important, like I was needed. And then
the summer came and I remember, like the beginning of
the summer. I'm like, I don't. I wasn't happy, I
wasn't feeling good about myself. And God whacked me upside
of the head. And it's like, it's not about you,
you know, being needed. It's like, who wants you? So,
(16:14):
you know, God wants us again. God meets this need.
And do we have fellowship with him? Do we choose
his presence again? Do we pray to have an intimate
relationship that grows and builds and matures, or are we,
you know, inserting ourselves into, into people's lives so that
we feel better about ourselves? Um, belonging comes from identity. Again,
if your identity is weak, if your identity is untrue,
(16:36):
if your identity is negative, then who's going to want me?
So if you only know the negatives about yourself, you're
living in the past. It's also true of security. If
you have learned to be trustworthy yourself, to tell the truth,
to be honest, dependable, and responsible, to ask, to be forgiven,
to forgive quickly. If your security is solid and you've
learned how to discern, you know, if you will, a
(16:56):
good person from a person who's not healthy, then your
belonging is better. So these build upon each other. I
would say if people are listening and they struggle with relationships,
it's probably an identity and a security issue. Like, I
can teach friendship skills to people, but if their identity
is still I am a jerk or their identity is
I know more than you know and their security is
(17:17):
I know more than you know. Then they get into
relationship and it's all about proving I know more than
you know. And those relationships aren't going to last. We
can teach, you know, we do have a crisis of
of belonging in our culture. Um, moms of high schoolers
have never been lonelier, according to some research. And we've
got young people who don't know how to connect, partly
because they're used to texting and being the center of
(17:37):
their own universe, because technology teaches them that they are.
So we need to, you know, take the phones away, perhaps,
and teach, teach belonging, teach, um, the art of compromise.
And when do we and don't when don't we? The
art of persuasion without debate. We can actually teach young
people how to end relationships without making people angry. That's
(17:58):
one of the questions I get from middle schoolers and
high schoolers. I now have a friend I shouldn't have.
My dad was right, but I don't know how to
get rid of him without hurting him. Can you help me?
S2 (18:10):
Part of my story, and I've been pretty forthright about this,
is that the enemy has been telling me my whole
life the lie that I have no value. And then
he was pretty successful at that. So he just pressed
a little deeper into. Actually, I think it would be
better if you weren't here. And I made a plan
to take my own life. But this speaks to one
(18:32):
of the core needs that we have of purpose. Why
am I here?
S3 (18:36):
Well, first, I'm sorry that you went through that season
and grateful that you were not successful in that. Um,
that's an interesting introduction to purpose because the the, a
leading cause of suicide is a lack of purpose. If
you look at suicide notes, interview people who tried to
kill themselves and were not successful, it's a lack of purpose.
It's not always belonging. Sometimes it is bullying and a
(18:58):
lack of friendship. Sometimes it's an identity issue. I'm. You know,
I'm only, you know, this negative being. But often its purpose.
I don't know why I should keep living when the
days are so dark. And because our children are aware
of the darkness more than ever before, because of technology,
it is easy for them to say, I can't contribute
to anything good here. The economy, the political system, the war,
(19:20):
the homelessness, the trafficking, the abortion. They can just list
it all because they've seen it on the World Wide Web,
either on their own devices or looking over mom and dad's.
And so there is a negativity in the air we
breathe if we're not careful. So we do need to say, hey,
your purpose is to leave the world a better place.
Like a very simple statement, you were created for such
a time as this. Like, if you're listening to us
(19:41):
today and thank you for listening. And you have young
people who don't believe they're alive for any good reason. Read, Esther.
That young young woman, young woman who was created for
such a time as this to save an entire people group,
you know, read Daniel, two young people who were very courageous,
who stood up for for truth and so purpose. Why
(20:02):
am I alive to glorify God? Isaiah 43, verse seven
and other verses. We were not created for our own glory.
God won't share his glory. We're alive to become like Jesus.
That's that's biblical. We're alive to be discipled so we
can disciple others. And we're alive to let people know
that Jesus is real. So the Great Commandment and the
Great Commission. When I talk to young people, we're alive
(20:24):
to love God and love man well, and we're alive
to know God and make him known. That's it. Career relationships,
those things facilitate purpose. But are, you know, like I
would say, I'm called to this, like to celebrate kids.
This is what I, you know, I'm a former teacher, coach,
school board member and professor. And each of those was good.
I thought I would do each forever. And God called
(20:45):
me to this. And there is beauty here. I like
I could tell story upon story and what God is
doing because I think I've responded to the call. So
I would say a purpose that I was created for
was this ministry, because I get to put God on display.
It's always about God. And so earlier we introduced people
to the truth of Christ. You know the better. And again,
(21:07):
why does belonging come before it? Belonging is who wants me.
Purpose is why am I alive? We're alive to serve people.
S2 (21:14):
Mhm.
S3 (21:15):
Okay. We're alive to teach people. We're alive to bless people.
We're alive to help people. So without relationship, we will
feel like we don't need to be alive. So there's
a connection there that I hope is helpful for people
to see.
S2 (21:32):
Of the five core needs that we have, I was
surprised by the competence one. I'm making that list. Yeah,
I think that maybe there's something for me to learn
here in this conversation. But tell me about competence and
how that is one of our top five.
S3 (21:48):
Right, right, right. Competence is defined as being able to
do what I've been called to do. And that's your purpose.
So I don't have your competencies because I don't need them.
Now we have the same purpose to glorify God. So
we have the same competence in that we know Scripture.
We've maybe taken some classes on evangelism. We've read some
(22:10):
verses about, you know, the fact that God loves all
people and whoever believes. ET cetera. ET cetera. But I
don't have your exact competence because I don't have the
other part of your purpose, which is to be a
radio host and to be what it is that you're
doing here today. So competence is fulfilling purpose. When people
know their purpose, they will be driven to discover their excellence. Again,
(22:31):
people who are apathetic, who have no competence, who are
happy being average, who haven't figured out how to, you know,
work a job, clean a house, be a friend. And
these are people who are lacking purpose. But competence. What
do I do? Well. It's not perfection. What do I do? Perfectly.
That's Jesus right? Perfection has been done. If you think
(22:51):
perfection is your possibility, you're on your way to hell.
I was there, I was, there, I was. Yeah, it's
it's a long, long story, but praise the Lord. I
was freed from the thought that it was all about
me and I was good enough. We'll never be good enough.
Competence is meeting our purpose. Competence is again putting God
on display. Competence is becoming like Jesus. Competence is primarily
(23:14):
our character and our decision making. If you think about
yourself at the end of the day and what makes
you feel good about yourself that day, it will be
the decisions you made and it will be the person
you were. Were you kind and generous, confident without being arrogant?
S2 (23:29):
This is very interesting to me. So right now Perry
is on vacation and I have been doing the show.
It's a three week adventure that he's on with his wife.
Praise God they're having a wonderful time. And we're a
team here and we're a small team. And so when
somebody steps away from the team, then there's more work
for everyone to do. And my days are so full
(23:49):
right now. Doctor Cathy, you just I mean, I wake
up and it's like feet hit the floor. Let's go
100 miles an hour. I don't have time for a
30 minute lunch. Like, just eat your food and then
keep going. And I am loving it, I am thriving.
I fall in bed exhausted at night. But I'm telling you,
I'm there's this joy in it that has surprised me.
S3 (24:13):
That's a beautiful testimony of being where you are called
to be. And your your competence isn't hard because it's
being driven by purpose. You're driven by the respect that
you have for Perry and the fact that you're glad
he's on an anniversary trip. You're driven by the love
you have for God and the people you serve in
the Grand Rapids area. So that makes total sense to me.
Competence is not hard when your security, identity, belonging and
(24:37):
purpose are met in healthy ways.
S1 (24:41):
Thanks for letting Barry and Shawna walk the real life
journey with you. The content from the Perry and Shawna
podcast comes from their live show. Perry and Shawna mornings
on 89.3 Moody Radio, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to
us by texting 809 68 8930. And please subscribe.