May 19, 2025 • 50 mins
This episode could transform your relationship with money for good.
If you’ve ever felt stuck financially, self-sabotaged your success, or believed wealth just wasn’t “for you,” you must hear this.
Today, Jerry sits down with bestselling author and multimillionaire entrepreneur Ian Prukner to reveal the truth about wealth that nobody talks about.
Ian went from working four jobs just to survive — to becoming a multimillionaire who now helps other create lives of financial freedom. How? By rewiring his beliefs about money.
You’ll learn:
- The exact thought patterns that keep you broke
- The 5 most common money lies (and how to rewrite them)
- Why wealth has nothing to do with luck — and everything to do with your subconscious
- The "T-BAR" formula that silently controls your financial future
- How to break generational cycles of poverty and shame
- Why your nervous system might be rejecting abundance
- The words and mentors that changed Ian’s life forever (and how they can change yours)
This is the episode you send to anyone who feels financially stuck or secretly believes they’re “bad with money.” It’s not just motivational — it’s transformational.
Get Ian’s free 5-Day Money Mindset Checkup here: [Insert Link]
Grab his bestselling books:
Get it here on Amazon: Byproduct
Get it here on Amazon: 12 Words That Change Everything
Connect with Ian Prukner on Instagram: @ianprukner
👉 Want to work with Jerry to create a life that feels as good on the inside as it looks on the outside? Book a free strategy call: jerryhenderson.org
00:00 – Welcome & Introduction
00:59 – Before the Wealth: Ian’s Humble Beginnings
07:47 – From Scarcity to Success: Mindset Shift
08:23 – Wealth as a Byproduct of Identity
08:59 – What is T-BAR? The Formula for All Results
13:20 – The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy of Belief
14:12 – 5 Most Common Limiting Beliefs About Money
21:30 – Beyond the Surface: The Root of Unworthiness
27:04 – Awareness, Reprogramming & Choosing New Beliefs
33:58 – How Wealthy People Think Differently
38:24 – Wealth Is Everywhere: The Myth of Scarcity
40:05 – The Power of Asking “How Can I?”
43:16 – Neuroscience, Curiosity & Growth
45:08 – Growth Is Our Natural State—Even Financially
47:32 – Your Relationship with Money = Your Experience with It
I am grateful you are here,
Jerry
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Website:
www.jerryhenderson.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jerry Henderson (00:00):
Hello everybody and welcome to the
Personal Mastery Podcast.
I'm your host, jerry Henderson,and if you're ready to create a
life that feels as good on theinside as it looks on the
outside, you're in the rightplace.
Let's get started.
Today, I'm honored to be joinedby my dear friend, someone who
I've known for over 20 years,ian Prochner.
(00:23):
Ian's a bestselling author,speaker and entrepreneur who's
helped thousands of people breakfree from financial limitations
.
But what I love most about Ian,it's not just what he's built,
it's how he thinks.
He understands that wealthisn't just about numbers, it's
about our mindset, and that'sexactly what we're going to be
(00:44):
talking about today.
Ian, welcome to PersonalMastery.
Ian Prukner (00:47):
Thanks, Jerry.
It's fun to be on.
I can't believe it's been 20years.
That's a long time.
It makes us seem old it does,doesn't it?
Jerry Henderson (00:54):
Yeah, I know, and I think I'm feeling a little
older, looking a little olderthan you are, my friend.
You're looking great, you know,Ian, I'd love to start with
something that really can helpkind of set the tone.
And before all the books, rightbefore the business, before the
stage, the TED Talks, all thethings that you've done you had
a moment or you had a season inyour life where money was tight,
(01:17):
where things may not be workinglike they are now.
So take us back to that time,and what did life look like then
and what was the spark thatshifted your mindset towards
wealth?
Because this is something thatso many of us struggle with
right Our mindset and we thinkthat it's all this stuff out
here that we need to rearrangeand figure out, but it starts in
(01:41):
here.
So talk to us a little bitabout that journey, please.
Ian Prukner (01:44):
Yeah.
So the first thing I'll say isit's impossible to win in our
wallet if we're losing in ourmind.
When it comes to money.
Right, and that was me, I justdidn't have any of the right
belief systems or the rightthinking, and I grew up in a
really middle-class home.
My parents we've been to thathome.
My parents still live there.
It's a 900 square foot home inRoyal Oak, michigan.
(02:06):
We grew up with a lot of love,but not a lot of wealth.
I didn't know any wealthypeople.
Nobody in my family was wealthyand, um, and so I got married
really young.
You actually officiated ourwedding and, uh, we went off
into the world and money wasvery tight and, um, I was
working three and four jobsalmost all the time just to make
(02:26):
ends meet and it was extremelystressful, to say the least.
Right, like every month, we hadto watch everything that we
were doing, every cent matter,because if it wasn't accounted
for, we weren't going to haveenough.
Working for a church actually upin Michigan, and about a year
before the great recession in 08, we were in Detroit and Detroit
(02:54):
was one of the hardest hitareas in that recession and what
happened was we're working fora church and charitable giving
is like the first thing thatbegins to go and things are not
good in the economy, that's thefirst thing that tightens up.
Everybody in the 501c3 worldstarts to notice before
everybody else.
And that was happening to us.
My wife and I were both workingfor a church.
We were walking on thin icefinancially.
I was working other jobs and wegot called into my boss's
(03:18):
office one day and he sat medown.
He said you know, I'm reallysorry to tell you this, but the
church is not doing wellfinancially.
We're behind on some mortgagepayments Effective immediately.
We're cutting everybody's payby 10%.
I don't know if and when we'llbe able to make it up to you.
And like I said, jerry, we wereon thin ice, like every dollar
mattered.
I was making 30 grand a year,so my pay cut was three grand
(03:40):
$250 a month.
Grand $250 a month, and we were$250 a month negative in that
moment.
Right.
And so my radar went up to likehow do I make an extra $250 a
month?
I was already working two otherjobs and so the last thing I
wanted to do was have job numberfour.
But that's all that I couldcome up with Like my mindset and
(04:00):
my creativity with how moneywas made was limited to what we
learn in school, which is go toschool, get good grades, go to
college so you could get a goodjob.
And I had four of those rightand that wasn't working.
And so I was actually going tobe a night manager at Rite Aid
okay, for like 15 bucks and somechange an hour, and I was going
(04:21):
to work three midnight shiftsand after taxes and withholdings
that was going to be enough tomake up that $250.
And I was dreading it, right, Iwas already working 80, 90
hours a week between the churchand music lessons and playing in
bands and singing at people'sweddings and funerals and
whatever else people would payme to do.
Now I'm going to be workingmidnights at writing.
It was not fun.
(04:43):
I was really, really down onmyself.
I felt like I had been cheatedin life, a little bit Like
somebody had told me a formula,that I was playing a game in the
way that I was supposed to play.
I was following the rules but Iwas losing the game.
That was really dishearteningto me and I can just remember
(05:04):
thinking over and over.
There's got to be a better waythan this.
And that church here is in areally affluent area in Michigan
.
It was called Million DollarMile back then when a million
dollars was a lot of money, andit's where all the new money was
.
In Detroit, like all the Tigersand all the Detroit Lions, all
the athletes were building thesebig, beautiful homes, and so I
would drive by these mansionsevery day on the way to work,
(05:27):
right, living in this tinylittle condo, struggling to no
end.
And I said what do these peopleknow that I don't know and I
became curious.
I became curious and about amonth after that happened, I had
a chance meeting, set up for meby my boss at the church, with
a gentleman who is very, veryfinancially savvy.
(05:49):
He was extremely wealthy and,jerry, in that moment it was
like alchemy hit right, like Iwas just in the right place at
the right time as the rightperson.
And most people find themselvesin the right place at the right
time, but they're the wrongperson, they have the wrong
thinking, they have the wrongbeliefs, and so they're not able
to capitalize on that.
Today, the media has us hatingpeople we should be learning
(06:12):
from financially, if you should.
These people are bad.
These people are evil.
Look, you're never going tobecome something that you hate,
and so if you hate wealthypeople, you're not going to be
one of them.
Okay, I promise you, you don'thave to worry about that, bro.
You got to take care of yourkid and I was smart enough
instead of being upset orthinking that this man had
something because I didn't have.
I said he knows something aboutmaking money that I don't know
(06:36):
and I would be a fool to not situnder this man and learn from
him.
And that's how I started in myprocess of literally
reprogramming my financial brainand my money blueprint inside
of my mind.
10 years later, after meetingthat manager, we were making a
million dollars a year, whichwas more money than I could have
(06:57):
ever imagined in a lifetime.
10 years earlier.
It was really absolutelyprofoundly life-changing and it
was all the by-product of a setof beliefs and thinking that
financially successful peoplehave that financially
unsuccessful people don't have.
Period.
(07:17):
It's completely learnable andI'm the poster child for that.
Working for jobs to make$27,500 a year that's not who I
would want to be takingfinancial advice from, but that
was me and I underwent thisincredible transition because
our thoughts are things and whatwe think about we eventually
(07:39):
bring about.
And I learned how to win in mymind with money and the
byproducts ended up becomingwinning in life with money.
Jerry Henderson (07:47):
Love that there's so much there, ian, that
you said you know the curiosity, right, that shift to say I'm
going to become curious, andthat opens up something within
us, doesn't it?
And just almost instantly,right Then that opened you up.
God brought in this opportunityfor you just from that shift.
And then you said somethingreally key that we could be at
the right place, we have theright opportunity, but be the
(08:09):
wrong person because we havethis wrong thinking.
And as you were talking aboutthat thinking and with this
episode of this wealth, money,mindset and how do we get there,
you mentioned byproduct.
You have a great book calledByproduct and in there you talk
about something called T-bar.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthat, because I'm really curious
(08:31):
.
You said, hey, I had thisthinking, I was this type of
person, I became this other typeof person and these mindsets
and this insight that wealthypeople have that other people
may not have and they pushagainst it, resist it, judge it,
et cetera, and that creates itsown block, its own barrier, as
you said.
So talk to us a little bitabout T-Bar, what that does, how
(08:53):
that byproduct shows up.
What are some of the thinkingthat we need to start installing
in our system?
Ian Prukner (08:59):
Yeah.
So after a decade of leadershipand wealth creation, leading a
lot of people, I stumbled acrossa truth, and so this idea is.
It's not my idea, this is anidea that has been on our planet
since the first person and willbe here long after I'm gone,
but what I did was put words toit.
I was able to describe thattruth.
There was a process by which allresults are made in our lives,
(09:22):
and I called that process T-Bbar, and it's an acronym.
It stands for thoughts, beliefs, actions and results, and the
idea is that the following isthe byproduct of the latter.
In other words, our resultsdon't just happen.
They are the byproduct of whatwe do or do not do.
In other words, our actionscreate our results.
(09:42):
Everybody knows that you go tothe gym, you eat healthy, you
generally live a better qualityof life physically.
If you don't do those thingsgenerally, you're not going to
live as well there, and so ourresults are the byproduct of our
actions.
Fair enough, everybody can seethat, but what most people fail
to see is their actions are notan Island.
You're not just doing.
We always do what we believe weshould.
(10:06):
You know, there's a lot ofpeople today that believe a lot
of crazy things.
I think we can all agree withthat and those people take
action on those things.
They harm other people, theyput themselves in jeopardy.
They do all sorts of wild things, and it's because they believe
that that's what they should bedoing, and so our actions are
always going to be the byproductof our beliefs.
(10:27):
What we believe we will act onEventually, that is going to be
the case.
So our actions are coming fromour beliefs.
But our beliefs aren't justsitting there either.
They didn't just randomly getthere.
They were actually created byour thinking.
Whatever we thought about longenough, often enough,
emotionally enough, eventuallypasses from our conscious mind,
our filter system, and it getsembedded inside of us, in our
(10:49):
subconscious, our truth holder,and so our thoughts eventually
become beliefs.
Our beliefs manifest intoactions.
Our actions create our results,and so that was a process that
I could watch happen over andover and over again in the lives
of everybody that I knew thatwas succeeding.
I could watch happen over andover and over again in the lives
of everybody that I knew thatwas succeeding.
I could watch those patterns.
They had right thinking, goodbelief systems, which caused
(11:12):
them to take consistent,positive, productive actions
which led to a compounding ofresults in their life.
And then I could watch thathappen.
In the exact opposite.
I could watch people withbroken thinking, poor belief
systems, take wrong actions orhave inaction and then suffer
the consequences of thoseresults, and I could watch them
(11:33):
happen over and over.
What was crazy, jerry, is I sawthat this worked so well that it
became a self-fulfillingprophecy.
In other words, somebody mightsay well, you know, I'm just,
I'm just not supposed to bewealthy.
Nobody in my family is wealthyand yeah, I'm just unlucky with
money.
That might be their thinking,right, and so so they don't
(11:53):
bother learning about money,because why would you?
You're so unlucky anyways,right, they don't bother
investing money because they'reprobably going to lose, and they
don't bother reading anythingabout it because why would we
want to look at that?
It's just such a bad subjectfor me.
And then they lose financially.
They say, aha, I'm right, I'mjust unlucky with money.
It's a cycle that works so wellthat it predicts and creates
(12:13):
itself.
Well, I saw the same thing onthe other end with people saying
you know what I can?
I can learn about money, and asI get better with money, I'll
have better results with money.
That might be their thinking,and so eventually that turns
into a belief system that says,hey, what I focus on grows.
If I get better at things,things get better.
(12:34):
I can't go through life betterskilled with better thinking,
better belief systems, better umuh tools, better relationships,
better networks, and not getbetter.
And so the byproduct of thatbelief would be well, let's go
build those networks, let's getthat education, let's learn a
little bit about it, let's openthat investment account.
And then, lo and behold, fiveor 10 or 15 years of doing those
(12:56):
things, and people are sittingon a fair amount of wealth that
was literally created from theirmind.
I love what Napoleon Hill saysthoughts are things, thoughts
are things.
And so, as we think as a manthinketh right, so is he.
And so this is the pattern ofT-bar and the byproduct that I
recognize and utilize in my lifeand so many other people's
(13:19):
lives.
Jerry Henderson (13:20):
Yeah, so powerful and fast forward.
You know you talked about yourfirst year of making a million
and then from there iscompounded and multimillionaire.
At this point, and startingwith the thoughts, the curiosity
thoughts, are things I mean.
I love that.
I love the book Think andGrow'm listening to this and
maybe I don't feel like I'mworthy of wealth and I have all
(13:48):
these blocks.
What are some of the tips thatyou would give?
Not even tips, right, becausethis isn't about tips, it's
about rewiring.
But when you think about aperson who has these limiting
beliefs around money, what aresome of the most common limiting
beliefs that you've seen, thatyou've witnessed people repeat
(14:09):
rehearse that has caused them tosabotage the life that they
want to live?
Ian Prukner (14:12):
Yeah, I think there's five of them
specifically that I've seen innow 20 years of helping people
to create lives that they loveand substantial wealth.
The first one, for spiritualaudiences, is that money is evil
, or that the love of money isevil and the money is not evil.
(14:33):
Money is an inanimate object.
Right, okay, the Bible does saythat the love of money is the
root of all evil, but there'ssomething after that, and when
we take scriptures out ofcontext, they can become a con
text, right, okay, and so whathappens?
There said you know that thelove for the love of money is
the root of all evil.
For some, having essentiallybeen money hungry, have walked
(14:56):
away from the faith right Inpursuit of these things.
And so one of the biggest beliefhurdles that I had to overcome
coming out of the ministry wasdoes God want me to be wealthy?
Does God want me to have money?
And what I found is God doesnot mind us having money as long
as money doesn't have us.
That is God's position, andthat's just not money.
(15:18):
By the way, it's all thingsthat want to exalt their
position in our lives over hisposition.
It might be a relationship withsomebody that we over his
position.
It might be a relationship withsomebody that we place above
God.
It might be our status or ourimage, it might be our health,
it could be a hobby or someother thing, and God wants to be
first place in our life.
And so does God want you to bewealthy?
(15:40):
He sure doesn't mind it as longas you are not being controlled
by that thing, right?
And so that's one of the firstthings If you disdain money, you
definitely will not have any ofit.
Okay, yeah, that is beliefNumber one.
The second belief that I seeall the times of money changes
people.
I don't want money to change me.
Folks.
(16:00):
Money doesn't change people.
It exposes people.
It exposes people.
It doesn't change who you are.
It reveals who you are.
When you have power, when youhave money, when you have
opportunity.
Those things reveal your true,unbridled intentions.
And so if you're a great personwith money, you're going to
help a lot of amazing causes.
(16:20):
You're going to create a lot ofincredible investments and
opportunities.
You're going to leave the worldin a net better place.
You're going to be a netcontributor to society.
If you have a lot of resourcesand you're a great person.
Now, if you're a selfish person, if you're a mean spirited
person, then all that does isamplify what you already are.
You'll be greedier than youwere.
(16:41):
You'll be more selfish than youwere.
You'll be more self-centeredmeaner to people because you can
get away with it.
But the money didn't change you.
You are always you.
It just exposes you.
And so what I always try tocoach people on is if you're
afraid of money changing you,why don't you just change you,
and then you won't have to beafraid of money changing you.
You change you first.
(17:01):
You become the person thatyou're supposed to be.
You live out the principlesthat God has called you to live
out, and when you've changed you, you don't have to worry about
money changing you.
So that's the second belief.
The third belief is you can'ttake it with you.
Well, you can't take it withyou, and this is actually a
quite accurate belief, but itdoesn't serve us.
You're right, you can't take itwith you.
(17:23):
You can stuff it in your coffin.
It won't do anybody any goodthere.
And that is simultaneously nota reason to um to relinquish our
call on our life, to be greatstewards and to learn to manage
money, to multiply money, tomake money.
It's not an excuse for nothaving anything, because, yeah,
(17:43):
you can't take it with you, butyou can leave it behind to
people you care about and causesthat matter to you, and you can
make a difference with it.
And so, just because you can'ttake it with you, that's far too
selfish of a way to evolve.
I can't have it.
When I'm gone, then forgetabout all these other deserving
people and causes too Goodriddance to them.
Right, that's a gospel ofselfishness that is masked in
(18:09):
some form of altruism.
Right, we can't take it withyou.
Okay, so that is a belief thatI've watched over and over and
over again in people's life.
How much is enough?
How much is enough?
This is another one.
When's enough enough?
Well, I think we should makeall we can, we should save all
(18:29):
we can, we should give all wecan, because in a capitalist
society, money is a certificateof merit Money unless you're
stealing it from people.
They have given it to you inexchange for your goods or your
services, or your time or yourknowledge, and so the more of it
we're able to accumulate, themore service we've rendered to
other people.
(18:50):
The only way we don't havemoney in a capitalist society is
when we serve our needs aloneinstead of the needs of other
people, because nobody pays youto serve yourself, right, but
they'll pay you to take care ofthem.
And so how much is enough?
I want to get as much of it asI can.
I want to give as much of it asI can.
I want to invest as much of itas I can.
I want to leave as big of amark there that I possibly can.
(19:13):
I want to be abundant withmoney, not in lack with money.
So those, jerry, those fourthere's a fifth, but those four
are the main areas where I seepeople struggle consistently
with their belief systems andmoney because ultimately, they
have negative feelings andemotions towards that, and that
(19:34):
manifests in all sorts ofself-sabotage and being
unwilling to learn and grow andto take control over those
things.
And that's not what we want itto.
We want to maintain our agencyover the tool of money.
I am going to give you thefifth one.
Okay, money won't make you happy.
This is a tough one, right?
Okay, well, money won't makeyou happy.
(19:54):
Okay, well, toasters won'tdrive you to work either.
Money was not meant to make youhappy.
Money is a tool for transaction.
It's a store of wealth and time.
It is not meant to make youhappy.
Just like I said, toastersaren't meant to drive you to
school and cell phones aren'tmeant to fly you to New York.
They are not the right tool.
(20:14):
And so, as long as we'relooking at money to be something
it can never be, was neverdesigned to be, will never be.
We'll always be frustrated withmoney because we misunderstand
its place in our lives.
It's not there as a tool tomake us happy.
It's there as a tool to help ustransact and to help exchange
value with one another.
Jerry Henderson (20:34):
So good.
You know there's so many thingsthat you know, as you shared,
that even all these aha momentsfor me and as I even thought
about it, was you shared in thebeginning for the spiritual
audience around.
You know money is the root ofall evil and if people aren't in
that spiritual space they'relike well, capitalism is evil,
or this structure, this system,is all evil.
There's always these things andhere's what I've learned about
(20:56):
us as people myself our firstsurface story really isn't the
story right, that first surfacestory of money's evil.
It changes people.
I'm afraid of that, can't takeit with you.
How much is enough?
It won't make me happy.
All of those are often thenarrative that we put forward,
(21:16):
but there's usually somethingright below the surface of that
and that thing that's rightbelow the surface of it may be a
sense of worthiness you knowthat if I get it it's going to
be taken away, I'm not worthy tohave it or a root in poverty.
You know I grew up on thewelfare system in the US, very
poor.
You know we had to go to foodlines at that time back in the
(21:37):
day and we're the Salvation Armyand all these other places to
get our meals and my mother wasshoplifting groceries at times
in order to feed us, and moneyfor me was a stress.
I associated money as stressbecause it was a source of
arguments in our home constantlyand my nervous system got wired
to see that as something that Ididn't want to deal with.
(22:00):
I didn't want to talk about it,I didn't want to look at it,
because that's how I got wiredand then I could then create a
story from that, which is, wellyou know, money's evil.
In this story and narrative,what's actually happening is
I've got some trauma with moneyor I've got some sense of
unworthiness.
Talk to us about what you'veseen in that space.
Ian Prukner (22:21):
Yeah, I love what you're talking about with the
story, and the story is just theremoval of our responsibility,
our removal of our ownresponsibility to win with money
.
This is confusing.
This makes me feel bad, I feelashamed, I feel guilty, I feel
stressed, I feel whatever thesethings are, and so this is a
great cover story thatalleviates me from having to
(22:43):
perform in this area of my life.
So, if I can just have thisgreat cover, that sounds very
altruistic, sounds very noble,I'm highest and above this
little thing called money, andthis is not a necessity in my
life.
It's a great cover story thatdeludes only us.
We're the only one deceived bythat.
Your bank doesn't care aboutyour story, and neither does
(23:06):
your investment account or thevacation you want to take, or
the family you want to give toor the cause that you care about
.
They don't buy your story.
You're the only one by you'reselling it and you're buying it,
but you're the only one doingboth of those things in our life
and, like I said, it helps usto evade our responsibility, and
I believe it is aresponsibility.
Jerry, I think that the Bible isreally clear.
(23:27):
There's a story in there calledthe parable of the talents that
Jesus talks about, and in itsmost literal sense.
There's a wealthy landowner wholeaves his three servants, and
he leaves each of them with ameasure of money.
One has five pieces of money,one has two, the other one has
one and he goes away.
He doesn't say when he's goingto come back.
The one who has five doubles itto ten.
(23:48):
The one who has two doubles itto four.
The one who has one is afraid,doesn't know what to do.
He doesn't have the education,he's never been bothered by this
little thing called money, andso he's entrusted with this,
doesn't know what to do with it,so he buries it.
So at least I'll give it backto him.
So the master comes back andthe one who has five says master
(24:09):
, here's your five and I'vegained you five more.
And he says to him well done,good and faithful servant.
The one who has two also hasmultiplied his money.
Now, he didn't have 10, he hadfour.
He doubled it.
So he took what he had and hegrew it.
He had four and the master saidwell done, good and faithful
servant.
Well, the one who has one saysmaster, you're a hard man and
you reap where you haven't sownand I was afraid and I didn't
(24:33):
want to lose it, so I buried it.
Here's your one back.
And that servant thought thatthat would have been acceptable.
But that's not what the mastersaid.
The master said you wicked lazyservant, you should have at
least put it on deposit with thebankers, where I would have
received interest.
And then he says something very, very interesting, and it's
still happening today.
He says take from the one whohas one and give to the one who
(24:57):
has 10.
And what he's saying here is,when we don't steward money,
what we have will be taken fromus and given to the people who
have it.
In other words, the rich becomericher and the poor become
poorer.
Why?
Because the rich understandmoney, they understand its place
in its life, in their life,they respect it, they honor it
(25:19):
and they use it.
And poor people are afraid ofit, they reject it, they avoid
it, they try to stay away fromit, and so even what they have
ends up being transferred to thewealthy right, because money
won't go where it's not wanted,it won't go there, it won't stay
there, it won't multiply there.
Jerry Henderson (25:37):
Yeah, so good.
Yeah, because you think aboutin that story, right, the fear
that was there and there's somuch fear that comes around
money, and the fear of I don'tknow what to do with it, I don't
know how to handle it, I don'twant to lose it.
I, you know, I don't know ifI'm once again worthy of it, and
if I I don't have it, maybe itreinforces my story of not being
worthy of it.
And, once again, if I get itand I lose it, well, that's
(26:05):
going to reinforce my narrativethat I have about myself,
because it often feels like thatmoney can be in some ways, in
all cases, right.
There's people who choose acertain lifestyle, and I think
about very rich people whochoose a certain outward
lifestyle that you'd never know,right, and so they make these
decisions around, but they stillhave those resources and they
have a certain mindset.
And so, as you think abouthelping people transition from
(26:28):
the fear, from the worthiness orthe unworthiness because you
talked about, thoughts arethings that then install belief
systems that then cause us totake certain actions or not take
certain actions, and then weget results from all of that.
You know limitations tosomething that's expansive, to
(26:59):
something that opens them up totheir worthiness to changing
their relationship with it.
And what is the mindset ofthose who open themselves up?
Ian Prukner (27:04):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I think that awareness isalways the first step to change,
and, specifically in money, theawareness that my belief
systems around money are notserving me.
If we're not winning with money, there's a reason that that's
occurring, and that reason is us, it's me, it's you, and that's
a really uncomfortable truth.
It's easier, sort of, to blamethe world or your upbringing or
(27:28):
the community you live in or anyother number of things, because
it's really hard to say, hey,I'm the problem, but when we can
, but when we can be aware thatwe are the problem, there's an
equally powerful truth on theother side of that that I'm also
the solution.
And so I think step one tochanging our money mindsets is
to recognize that our moneymindsets are broken, or they're
(27:49):
at least not serving us well.
They're not serving us well.
How many times, jerry, have youseen a motivational speaker in
front of a tree and he's justfiring?
Jerry Henderson (28:00):
that tree up.
Ian Prukner (28:00):
You're going to be the biggest oak tree.
You're going to be so.
You're going to be so strong.
Your trunk's going to be sowide, your leaves, they're just
going to be magnificent.
How many times have you seenthat?
Never seen that in my life andI've never seen it either.
I'm sure maybe one day we willwith the world out there.
These days, the reason treesdon't need motivational speakers
is because they were born togrow.
(28:21):
They don't need any sort ofoutside help to do what they
were made to do.
Well, we were born to grow too,and one of the areas that we're
supposed to grow in isfinancially, in our resource
management, our ability to make,save and multiply money.
Okay.
And so when we're not growingin that area, it's because
(28:42):
something has gone wrong in thewiring.
What our natural status ofgrowth and expansion, like all
living things?
Okay, we have walked away, mostof the time unknowingly, from
that natural programming.
In other words, we picked up abelief somewhere somehow that
doesn't serve the natural wiringin our life, and so it's
(29:05):
creating sort of a malfunctionthere.
With money, if, financially,I'm strapped right now, if I'm
stuck, if I've got a lot ofanxiety around money, if I don't
feel like I'm worthy of it, mybelief systems aren't serving me
.
That's awareness number one,okay.
So we need to become aware, andthen we we've got to replace
(29:25):
that belief system.
And so how do we do that?
Well, what I did all thoseyears ago is I found this man
who had the right belief systemsabout money, and what I went to
him to study was how he thoughtI.
Literally whenever I have achance to hang around very, very
wealthy or very, verysuccessful people in any field,
whether it's sports or businessor the arts and I've been very
(29:46):
blessed.
I have several billionairesthat have been personal mentors
to me.
I mentors that are some of themost recognizable names in the
world and when I'm with them,the number one thing I want to,
I want to get from them is wheredo they think differently than
I do?
Because that is where theirdifferent results are generating
(30:07):
.
Their results are differentthan mine because their thinking
is different than mine.
Remember T-bar way?
At the very beginning of allthose results are these pesky
little thoughts, these fourinches between our ears and, if
I can figure out, jerry, wheretheir thinking is different than
mine and I can begin toquestion that, challenge it,
learn it and begin to acceptsome of that thinking.
(30:31):
I can begin to believe and acton that.
So we first need to be awarethat our thinking systems are
not serving us.
The second thing we need to dois we need to replace that with
better, more positive,productive thought patterns.
Okay, and then the third thingwe do is we reprogram those
things right.
So it's one thing to think,it's another to know and believe
(30:52):
.
And so we reprogram througheither repetition or through
emotional anchoring.
Napoleon Hill calls itauto-suggestion, in other words,
what we listen to often enough,frequently enough, eventually
we begin to believe.
This is how pathological liarsbelieve their own lies.
They lie to themselves so muchthat eventually it becomes true
(31:13):
to them Not to anybody else, butthey believe it.
They do because they've heardit so many times.
So that's a negative example ofthat.
But the same is true when webegin to program new and more
positive thoughts about yourrelationships with money, why
you deserve to have success withmoney, why money is not
stressful, why money can be agreat tool in your life.
(31:35):
As you begin to reprogram that,it becomes a default and we
begin to move through that.
We're always moving towards ourmost dominant thoughts, and so
most of us are not thinkingabout what we're thinking about.
We're not even choosing ourthoughts.
They've been put there by ourparents, our upbringing, the
media, what we scroll by today.
Right and outsourcing yourthinking is an expensive job,
(31:58):
and I don't ever want to do that.
I want to make sure that we'rethinking accurately and that
we're programming those beliefsso that they become automatic.
That's where I would start.
Jerry Henderson (32:07):
Love that.
So the awareness piece, andthen even the awareness of
responsibility, right, becauseas we even think about the
psychology of happiness, all theresearch tells us, right, that
it's an inside job.
And then when we think aboutour mindset, and you know, we
want to blame the world, we wantto blame how structures are set
up, and there's some real hardtruths in this right, and some
listeners may listen to this andgo, wow, that feels a little
(32:29):
harsh, but here's the truth.
You know, if our systems arerejecting that and seeing that
as harsh, then we have to getcurious about underneath.
Ian Prukner (32:46):
That's actually the place where we should be
getting.
Yeah, it is precisely in theplace that we reject the
strongest that is likely thelocation of our greatest
opportunities for growth,because those are our most
deeply held, deeply rootedinstinctual beliefs that are
coming up in opposition to thatrooted instinctual beliefs that
are coming up in opposition tothat, and that's a good clue to
start right.
When you get really wound upabout something you hear about
(33:06):
money, that's probably a goodplace to examine your beliefs.
Jerry Henderson (33:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
And get curious about itbecause I love what you said
that they have different resultsbecause they think different.
And we can look at the resultsand say it was luck, it was this
or that, but there is athinking pattern that is
different.
And then that reprogramming,that auto-suggestion.
Now, if you were to just sharesomething with the audience
(33:34):
where you go, hey, the numberone place that I would start
doing the work you said isawareness.
Then beginning to start doingthe reprogramming work, right,
understanding what thatreplacement work.
And then the reprogramming work.
What are some of those thoughts, those top couple of thoughts
on how the people who havewealth keep wealth.
What are some of the ways theythink differently?
Ian Prukner (33:58):
Yeah, I think number one is they have money in
its rightful place in theirlife, which is they honor it,
they respect it, they understandit, they steward it, but they
are not controlled by it, theyare not in love with it.
They just have it in its rightorder and proximity to them in
(34:21):
their life.
I think that's a great startingplace for wealthy people.
They respect it.
Listen, if you talked to yourspouse the way you talk about
money, you probably wouldn'thave a spouse and that's why you
don't have any money, becauseit knows it's not.
You're never going to becomesomething that you disdain and
(34:44):
you're never going to do thework to learn something that
really pushes back against you.
And so, again, having this inits rightful place, being able
to say money is important, moneyis important.
Money helps me live my lifemore effectively.
Money makes me a more effectiveparent, makes me a more
effective leader, it makes me amore effective spouse, makes me
a more effective citizen.
(35:06):
It helps me have control overmy agency.
There's all sorts of thingsthat are good that come from
this.
So very successful people havemoney and their understanding of
money in its place, and it's ahealthy relationship that they
build with money.
That's a first belief systemand thinking pattern that I
(35:27):
would want to make sure that Ihave.
Right that this is notsomething I'm afraid of.
It's not something that I thinkis bad or evil in some way.
It's not something I think thatGod does not want me to have.
It's not something that I feelis going to want me to have.
It's not something that I feelis going to be harmful to me or
to others.
Right?
It's the idea you mentionedthat capitalism is bad People
who think that capitalism is badwork on a fixed high ideology.
(35:51):
If you ever read, there's greatbooks, a very tough read.
It's a humongous book.
It's written in the 1600s,called the Wealth of Nations,
and it's by Adam Smith, and hewas basically one of the
founders of modern economicthought, and he talks about the
creation of money.
And so, to paraphrase this,imagine going into the woods.
(36:12):
You didn't have to do anythingfor woods to exist, right, jerry
?
You were born on this planetand there were woods, and a
hundred years from now therewill still be woods in the
planet.
And so you could go into thewoods and you could take your
effort, your physical energy,and you could chop down a tree,
and nothing has happened untilyou sell that tree to a lumber
(36:35):
mill who pays you money.
And because you went into thewoods with your effort, new
money is created in the system.
That money did not exist beforethat wood was chopped down.
But before it can get to thatlumber mill it's got to get
shipped.
So a shipping company makessome money for taking their logs
(36:55):
down the river and then it getsthere.
It gets cleaned, the cleaningcompany makes some money, they
ship it to the mill, the millchops it up into two by fours,
two by sixes, all sorts of stuffright.
They sell it to Home Depot.
Those guys make some money.
Home Depot sells it to the homebuilder.
Home Depot makes some money.
They ship it on a truck.
The trucker makes some money,shows up to the job site where
the carpenters frame the housethey make some money.
(37:17):
The house gets finished.
The builder sells the house.
He makes some money.
The realtor who sold it makessome money.
The mortgage loan officer whodid the loan makes some money.
The title insurance, thehomeowner's insurance, the lawn
guy, the irrigator.
From the man in the woods whosaid I'm going to take my time,
my energy and my effort and I'mgoing to produce something with
(37:38):
it my energy and my effort andI'm going to produce something
with it there began an entirestream of new wealth creation.
And so understanding thatwealth is in super abundance,
that it is everywhere around you, I think is the second belief
that we want to cultivate,because when you believe that
for you to have more, othersmust have less, you won't go get
more.
It's also a false belief whenyou believe that all you need to
(38:01):
do it to have more is to createsomething that has not been
created before.
Now you will become supercreative and super abundant in
how you approach things.
You know, I grew up in Michiganand the Detroit area is very,
very hard hit by race riots inthe sixties, again by the
shutdowns in 2008, thebankruptcies of the big three
(38:23):
automotive companies.
And there are blocks, jerry, inDetroit you know, you've been
there okay where there are morehomes in Detroit than there are
people.
They were just all abandoned,right, and there are blocks that
are just decimated.
But do you understand, in asquare mile, in the most
impoverished area in the city ofDetroit, there are hundreds and
(38:43):
hundreds of millions of dollarssitting in that one square mile
between the homes, the cars,the raw materials.
Hundreds of millions of dollarsin what a normal person would
say is a very impoverished area.
Why?
Money is very abundant, it iseverywhere.
There's no lack of money, onlylack of ideas and effort to
(39:04):
translate into money throughcreation.
That's the second belief that Iwould work on is getting an
awareness of the opportunitiesaround you.
The third belief that I wouldbegin to work on or thought
process, really more of athought process than a belief is
how can I, how can I see mostpeople.
(39:25):
They look at a dream home andsay I'd love to have that, but I
can't afford it.
They look at that car oh, itmust be nice, but I couldn't
afford that.
They look at the nice dinner orthe nice trip and I can't, I
can't.
And I can't is a lie.
Can't and won't are twodifferent things.
Okay, and when we say I can't,our subconscious mind says okay,
(39:46):
sounds good.
And shuts off and goes to rest.
But when we begin to think,instead of I can't, into how can
I, how can I afford that?
How could I acquire theresources for this?
Now our mind becomes infinitelycreative.
Jerry, what's your birthday?
Jerry Henderson (40:05):
October 7th.
Ian Prukner (40:06):
Why did you answer that?
Jerry Henderson (40:08):
Because that's the day I was born, man, it's
just who I am, but because Iasked you.
Yeah, because you asked me yeah.
Ian Prukner (40:14):
I asked you a question, and so your brain is
wired to come up with answers tothe questions it is asked.
And when we say I can't, westop asking questions.
But when we say how can I?
We become infinitely curious.
Our brain goes into overdrive.
There's a fun illustration Ilove to do when I speak and I've
done this on stages with 20 and30,000 people.
(40:37):
It's a lot of fun.
I'll bring two random audiencemembers up.
I don't talk to them beforehandand I have a shiny $20 bill
that I bring up.
Smack that thing in my hand,right, shiny 20.
And I say hey, we have talkedabout this right now.
Okay, you don't know what we'redoing.
Okay, well, we're going to havea contest and here's the rules
of the contest.
You've got to go from this sideof the stage to this side of
(40:57):
the stage.
Okay, you get three seconds ofdowntime on each side.
Here's the rules you can't walkand you can't repeat yourself,
and you can't repeat whatsomebody else has done, and the
last person still crossing thisstage is going to win this $20.
Are you ready?
And it becomes so much fun.
(41:18):
People get their cameras out.
It's wild.
The audience erupts.
You got people doing the crabwalk, you got a barrel rolling.
I had one guy one time become awheelbarrow partnership where
the one guy was walking on hishands and the other dude was
holding his legs pushing himbehind him.
I mean really crazy things,right.
And so sometimes this will goon for three or four minutes and
(41:41):
they'll see you see 20, 30, 40different variations and
eventually one of them willblank out and they just won't be
able to think in that.
Three seconds and they're doneand the winner is crowned.
I'll bring the winner up.
I say now.
Now let me ask you a question.
I saw you do this move and thismove and this move.
When's the last time you didthat in your life?
When's the last time, jerry,you crab walked?
(42:02):
It's probably been a while,right, if ever.
Okay, so you didn't come tothis event today planning to
crab walk across the stage infront of 20,000 people, but you
did right, and you did someother stuff that it quite
honestly looks like your bodyhas never done before.
Okay, and you had three secondsand you were in front of 20,000
(42:23):
people and your brain firedthose things off, one after
another, after another afteranother, effortlessly.
It came to you, it controlledthousands and tens of thousands
of movements and musclemovements in instantaneous
fashion.
Why?
Because when the why is clear,the how to appears.
(42:44):
When we give our mind achallenge, a question, a problem
to solve, it becomes infinitelycreative.
And when we say I can't, weshut off our creativity stream.
When we say how can I, we openourself up to a world of
(43:06):
possibilities.
I could tell you so manystories of incredible wealth
that's been generated in my lifeby asking myself this question,
ian how can I?
And letting my brain do thatwork for me as it will for you?
Jerry Henderson (43:16):
Yeah, absolutely, and I want the
listeners to make sure you hearthat as it will for you.
Yeah, absolutely, and I wantthe listeners to make sure you
hear that as it will for you,because we're all on this planet
trying to figure it out.
We're living this life for thefirst time and what I loved
about what you said is, onceagain, it's anchoring in that
curiosity, right, and so manypeople will adopt that story
that it's not for me or I can't,or whatever that narrative is.
And there's a long history thatgoes behind that story that
(43:37):
it's not for me or I can't, orwhatever that narrative is.
And there's a long history thatgoes behind that story and the
development of it.
The good news is is it canchange faster than it was
developed.
We do the work of rewiring yeah, much faster as we think about
those stories and the I can't.
You know, the neuroscience showsus that when we get curious and
(44:00):
we start to say how can I, itactually activates the approach
system in our brain that ismotivated, that causes us to
move towards change in our life.
And when we say things like Ican't or I never will, that
actually connects to our avoidsystem of our brain that's based
(44:21):
in fear, anxiety, and it causesus to avoid moving forward.
And for the listeners who arethinking about well, it's just
words.
It goes beyond just words.
It's actually neuroscience.
It activates, lights up regionsin your brain that causes you
to start approaching something.
And here's the interestingthing about this Will, as you
talked about earlier, the treeright.
(44:43):
Its natural state is for it togrow and we'll give that, you
know, our head nod towards 99%of things in our life in some
sense right.
Like you know, it's natural forme to, you know, learn how to
get better if I'm pursuing aneducation.
Or it's natural for me to growin this area, that area, etc.
It's natural for a kid to startgrowing, you know, and adding
(45:07):
inches to their height.
But for some reason, when westart talking about money and we
start talking about wealth,there's something that just
starts to shut down, because weknow emotional growth, mental
growth, you know even relationalgrowth.
Yeah, those things are good, weshould be doing those things.
But, as you talk about, Ishould have evidence of
financial growth in my life,because it's not some separate
(45:29):
thing.
We like to categorize it andchunk it over to something that
we can avoid.
It's a natural extension ofwhat you said creating value in
this world.
Am I creating value?
Am I activating the creativeparts of who I am to bring
something into this world thatallows everybody in some sense
(45:49):
to begin to benefit in some way?
And so when we think about thatnatural growth piece, the
desire to want to becomeself-expansive, we exclude that
piece for some reason.
And so if you were to give youknow the Ian who was you know
20-some years ago or how manyever years ago, who was in that
(46:11):
moment, who all of a suddenshifted to curiosity and you
know you might have somebodylistening right now who's in
that exact state, what would bethe one piece of advice that you
would have given to youryounger self earlier on, or give
to the listener, who just needsto hear that they do have the
potential to transform theirlife in this space?
Ian Prukner (46:31):
I tell myself two things Think a whole lot bigger
and find the right mentors.
That's the two things I wouldtell myself.
Right, because, knowing what Iknow, on the other side of it, I
played too small for too longand that kept my earning
potential down longer than itshould have, kept my net worth
uh, uh, acquiring potential downmuch longer than it should have
(46:54):
.
And then having the rightmentors, getting around people
specifically seeking them out,paying for them if you need to,
but putting myself in proximityof people who had the life that
I wanted, so that I couldmeticulously study the thoughts
that created that life and beginto model those back into my own
life.
Jerry Henderson (47:14):
Love that so good, ian.
Before we close out, I justfirst want to say thank you so
much for everything that you'veshared with us today.
Is there anything else thatyou'd like to share?
Before we move on, and I wantto highlight your book and some
other resources for people- yeah, I would just tell you that
great relationships matter inlife.
Ian Prukner (47:32):
I think we all know that.
A great relationship with yourspouse if you have a spouse,
that'll make you or break you, Ithink, great relationships with
your kids, with coworkers, withfriends.
Well, relationships with moneymatter too, and I would
encourage you to go on thejourney of cultivating a
positive, productive andempowering relationship with
(47:53):
money, and as you develop that,you'll have a much better
experience with money.
Your experience will alwaysmatch your relationship, and so
if'll have a much betterexperience with money, your
experience will always matchyour relationship.
And so if you have a troubledrelationship with money, you're
going to have a troubledexperience with it.
But if you have a greatrelationship with money, a
positive one, an empowering one,you're going to have a great
positive and empoweringexperience with money.
(48:14):
And so if our experience hasn'tbeen all that we want it to be,
let's go back to therelationship that we have with
it and begin to work there.
Jerry Henderson (48:22):
So powerful, totally shifts our energy when
we look at it as a relationship,versus some finite thing that
we're just trying to grasp onto.
And you've got a new book thatjust recently came out and the
title of it is 12 Words thatChange Everything.
Why don't you tell ourlisteners a little bit about
your new book?
Ian Prukner (48:39):
Yeah, so it's my second book just became a
bestseller against.
That's amazing.
And the premise of the book isthat our words are creating our
world and that we have a lot ofcreative power inside of us.
And there are 12 words that Ifound especially useful in
creating the life that I'velived now, overcoming a lot of
the obstacles that we'veovercome and building a lot of
(49:00):
the dreams that we've been ableto live.
And those 12 words are notwords that are taught in school
regularly.
They're not part of thediscourse, of everyday
conversation, which is why theydon't create lives that look
like everyday people's lives.
These are powerful ideas thatare wrapped into words that can
describe them, and so there's 12chapters in the book.
(49:22):
Each chapter is dedicated toone of those words that has
profoundly impacted my life, aword that doesn't get the
credibility and the tractionthat it deserves, but is much,
much needed if you want to livea life of significant success.
So that's the moral of 12 wordsthat change everything.
Jerry Henderson (49:38):
Awesome.
Thank you, ian.
Thank you so much for takingyour time to be here and
listeners.
If you're interested in pickingup either one of Ian's books
whether it's byproduct or hislatest book, 12 Words that
Change Everything you can simplysee the show notes in this
episode.
You'll also see a link to afree resource that Ian has
created for this audience.
It's Five Day Money moneymindset checkup.
(50:00):
And so encourage free resource,get access to that and start
your journey on changing the waythat you think about money and
your relationship with money.
And also if you're interested inlearning more about how to work
with Ian in this space ofshifting your money mindset, you
can reach out to him onInstagram.
His handle there is at IanProchner.
(50:22):
I'm also including a link tohis Instagram in the show notes
of this episode.
I just want to say thank you somuch for being here for another
episode with Personal Mastery,so grateful for this community.
If you've not yet had a chanceto subscribe or follow, take a
moment to do that, because Idon't want you to miss out on a
single episode.
Chance to subscribe or follow.
Take a moment to do thatbecause I don't want you to miss
out on a single episode, and Iwant to remind you that you are
worthy of a life that feels asgood on the inside as it looks
(50:45):
on the outside.
Hello everybody and welcome to the
Personal Mastery Podcast.
I'm your host, jerry Henderson,and if you're ready to create a
life that feels as good on theinside as it looks on the
outside, you're in the rightplace.
Let's get started.
Today, I'm honored to be joinedby my dear friend, someone who
I've known for over 20 years,ian Prochner.
(00:23):
Ian's a bestselling author,speaker and entrepreneur who's
helped thousands of people breakfree from financial limitations
.
But what I love most about Ian,it's not just what he's built,
it's how he thinks.
He understands that wealthisn't just about numbers, it's
about our mindset, and that'sexactly what we're going to be
(00:44):
talking about today.
Ian, welcome to PersonalMastery.
Ian Prukner (00:47):
Thanks, Jerry.
It's fun to be on.
I can't believe it's been 20years.
That's a long time.
It makes us seem old it does,doesn't it?
Jerry Henderson (00:54):
Yeah, I know, and I think I'm feeling a little
older, looking a little olderthan you are, my friend.
You're looking great, you know,Ian, I'd love to start with
something that really can helpkind of set the tone.
And before all the books, rightbefore the business, before the
stage, the TED Talks, all thethings that you've done you had
a moment or you had a season inyour life where money was tight,
(01:17):
where things may not be workinglike they are now.
So take us back to that time,and what did life look like then
and what was the spark thatshifted your mindset towards
wealth?
Because this is something thatso many of us struggle with
right Our mindset and we thinkthat it's all this stuff out
here that we need to rearrangeand figure out, but it starts in
(01:41):
here.
So talk to us a little bitabout that journey, please.
Ian Prukner (01:44):
Yeah.
So the first thing I'll say isit's impossible to win in our
wallet if we're losing in ourmind.
When it comes to money.
Right, and that was me, I justdidn't have any of the right
belief systems or the rightthinking, and I grew up in a
really middle-class home.
My parents we've been to thathome.
My parents still live there.
It's a 900 square foot home inRoyal Oak, michigan.
(02:06):
We grew up with a lot of love,but not a lot of wealth.
I didn't know any wealthypeople.
Nobody in my family was wealthyand, um, and so I got married
really young.
You actually officiated ourwedding and, uh, we went off
into the world and money wasvery tight and, um, I was
working three and four jobsalmost all the time just to make
(02:26):
ends meet and it was extremelystressful, to say the least.
Right, like every month, we hadto watch everything that we
were doing, every cent matter,because if it wasn't accounted
for, we weren't going to haveenough.
Working for a church actually upin Michigan, and about a year
before the great recession in 08, we were in Detroit and Detroit
(02:54):
was one of the hardest hitareas in that recession and what
happened was we're working fora church and charitable giving
is like the first thing thatbegins to go and things are not
good in the economy, that's thefirst thing that tightens up.
Everybody in the 501c3 worldstarts to notice before
everybody else.
And that was happening to us.
My wife and I were both workingfor a church.
We were walking on thin icefinancially.
I was working other jobs and wegot called into my boss's
(03:18):
office one day and he sat medown.
He said you know, I'm reallysorry to tell you this, but the
church is not doing wellfinancially.
We're behind on some mortgagepayments Effective immediately.
We're cutting everybody's payby 10%.
I don't know if and when we'llbe able to make it up to you.
And like I said, jerry, we wereon thin ice, like every dollar
mattered.
I was making 30 grand a year,so my pay cut was three grand
(03:40):
$250 a month.
Grand $250 a month, and we were$250 a month negative in that
moment.
Right.
And so my radar went up to likehow do I make an extra $250 a
month?
I was already working two otherjobs and so the last thing I
wanted to do was have job numberfour.
But that's all that I couldcome up with Like my mindset and
(04:00):
my creativity with how moneywas made was limited to what we
learn in school, which is go toschool, get good grades, go to
college so you could get a goodjob.
And I had four of those rightand that wasn't working.
And so I was actually going tobe a night manager at Rite Aid
okay, for like 15 bucks and somechange an hour, and I was going
(04:21):
to work three midnight shiftsand after taxes and withholdings
that was going to be enough tomake up that $250.
And I was dreading it, right, Iwas already working 80, 90
hours a week between the churchand music lessons and playing in
bands and singing at people'sweddings and funerals and
whatever else people would payme to do.
Now I'm going to be workingmidnights at writing.
It was not fun.
(04:43):
I was really, really down onmyself.
I felt like I had been cheatedin life, a little bit Like
somebody had told me a formula,that I was playing a game in the
way that I was supposed to play.
I was following the rules but Iwas losing the game.
That was really dishearteningto me and I can just remember
(05:04):
thinking over and over.
There's got to be a better waythan this.
And that church here is in areally affluent area in Michigan
.
It was called Million DollarMile back then when a million
dollars was a lot of money, andit's where all the new money was
.
In Detroit, like all the Tigersand all the Detroit Lions, all
the athletes were building thesebig, beautiful homes, and so I
would drive by these mansionsevery day on the way to work,
(05:27):
right, living in this tinylittle condo, struggling to no
end.
And I said what do these peopleknow that I don't know and I
became curious.
I became curious and about amonth after that happened, I had
a chance meeting, set up for meby my boss at the church, with
a gentleman who is very, veryfinancially savvy.
(05:49):
He was extremely wealthy and,jerry, in that moment it was
like alchemy hit right, like Iwas just in the right place at
the right time as the rightperson.
And most people find themselvesin the right place at the right
time, but they're the wrongperson, they have the wrong
thinking, they have the wrongbeliefs, and so they're not able
to capitalize on that.
Today, the media has us hatingpeople we should be learning
(06:12):
from financially, if you should.
These people are bad.
These people are evil.
Look, you're never going tobecome something that you hate,
and so if you hate wealthypeople, you're not going to be
one of them.
Okay, I promise you, you don'thave to worry about that, bro.
You got to take care of yourkid and I was smart enough
instead of being upset orthinking that this man had
something because I didn't have.
I said he knows something aboutmaking money that I don't know
(06:36):
and I would be a fool to not situnder this man and learn from
him.
And that's how I started in myprocess of literally
reprogramming my financial brainand my money blueprint inside
of my mind.
10 years later, after meetingthat manager, we were making a
million dollars a year, whichwas more money than I could have
(06:57):
ever imagined in a lifetime.
10 years earlier.
It was really absolutelyprofoundly life-changing and it
was all the by-product of a setof beliefs and thinking that
financially successful peoplehave that financially
unsuccessful people don't have.
Period.
(07:17):
It's completely learnable andI'm the poster child for that.
Working for jobs to make$27,500 a year that's not who I
would want to be takingfinancial advice from, but that
was me and I underwent thisincredible transition because
our thoughts are things and whatwe think about we eventually
(07:39):
bring about.
And I learned how to win in mymind with money and the
byproducts ended up becomingwinning in life with money.
Jerry Henderson (07:47):
Love that there's so much there, ian, that
you said you know the curiosity, right, that shift to say I'm
going to become curious, andthat opens up something within
us, doesn't it?
And just almost instantly,right Then that opened you up.
God brought in this opportunityfor you just from that shift.
And then you said somethingreally key that we could be at
the right place, we have theright opportunity, but be the
(08:09):
wrong person because we havethis wrong thinking.
And as you were talking aboutthat thinking and with this
episode of this wealth, money,mindset and how do we get there,
you mentioned byproduct.
You have a great book calledByproduct and in there you talk
about something called T-bar.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthat, because I'm really curious
(08:31):
.
You said, hey, I had thisthinking, I was this type of
person, I became this other typeof person and these mindsets
and this insight that wealthypeople have that other people
may not have and they pushagainst it, resist it, judge it,
et cetera, and that creates itsown block, its own barrier, as
you said.
So talk to us a little bitabout T-Bar, what that does, how
(08:53):
that byproduct shows up.
What are some of the thinkingthat we need to start installing
in our system?
Ian Prukner (08:59):
Yeah.
So after a decade of leadershipand wealth creation, leading a
lot of people, I stumbled acrossa truth, and so this idea is.
It's not my idea, this is anidea that has been on our planet
since the first person and willbe here long after I'm gone,
but what I did was put words toit.
I was able to describe thattruth.
There was a process by which allresults are made in our lives,
(09:22):
and I called that process T-Bbar, and it's an acronym.
It stands for thoughts, beliefs, actions and results, and the
idea is that the following isthe byproduct of the latter.
In other words, our resultsdon't just happen.
They are the byproduct of whatwe do or do not do.
In other words, our actionscreate our results.
(09:42):
Everybody knows that you go tothe gym, you eat healthy, you
generally live a better qualityof life physically.
If you don't do those thingsgenerally, you're not going to
live as well there, and so ourresults are the byproduct of our
actions.
Fair enough, everybody can seethat, but what most people fail
to see is their actions are notan Island.
You're not just doing.
We always do what we believe weshould.
(10:06):
You know, there's a lot ofpeople today that believe a lot
of crazy things.
I think we can all agree withthat and those people take
action on those things.
They harm other people, theyput themselves in jeopardy.
They do all sorts of wild things, and it's because they believe
that that's what they should bedoing, and so our actions are
always going to be the byproductof our beliefs.
(10:27):
What we believe we will act onEventually, that is going to be
the case.
So our actions are coming fromour beliefs.
But our beliefs aren't justsitting there either.
They didn't just randomly getthere.
They were actually created byour thinking.
Whatever we thought about longenough, often enough,
emotionally enough, eventuallypasses from our conscious mind,
our filter system, and it getsembedded inside of us, in our
(10:49):
subconscious, our truth holder,and so our thoughts eventually
become beliefs.
Our beliefs manifest intoactions.
Our actions create our results,and so that was a process that
I could watch happen over andover and over again in the lives
of everybody that I knew thatwas succeeding.
I could watch happen over andover and over again in the lives
of everybody that I knew thatwas succeeding.
I could watch those patterns.
They had right thinking, goodbelief systems, which caused
(11:12):
them to take consistent,positive, productive actions
which led to a compounding ofresults in their life.
And then I could watch thathappen.
In the exact opposite.
I could watch people withbroken thinking, poor belief
systems, take wrong actions orhave inaction and then suffer
the consequences of thoseresults, and I could watch them
(11:33):
happen over and over.
What was crazy, jerry, is I sawthat this worked so well that it
became a self-fulfillingprophecy.
In other words, somebody mightsay well, you know, I'm just,
I'm just not supposed to bewealthy.
Nobody in my family is wealthyand yeah, I'm just unlucky with
money.
That might be their thinking,right, and so so they don't
(11:53):
bother learning about money,because why would you?
You're so unlucky anyways,right, they don't bother
investing money because they'reprobably going to lose, and they
don't bother reading anythingabout it because why would we
want to look at that?
It's just such a bad subjectfor me.
And then they lose financially.
They say, aha, I'm right, I'mjust unlucky with money.
It's a cycle that works so wellthat it predicts and creates
(12:13):
itself.
Well, I saw the same thing onthe other end with people saying
you know what I can?
I can learn about money, and asI get better with money, I'll
have better results with money.
That might be their thinking,and so eventually that turns
into a belief system that says,hey, what I focus on grows.
If I get better at things,things get better.
(12:34):
I can't go through life betterskilled with better thinking,
better belief systems, better umuh tools, better relationships,
better networks, and not getbetter.
And so the byproduct of thatbelief would be well, let's go
build those networks, let's getthat education, let's learn a
little bit about it, let's openthat investment account.
And then, lo and behold, fiveor 10 or 15 years of doing those
(12:56):
things, and people are sittingon a fair amount of wealth that
was literally created from theirmind.
I love what Napoleon Hill saysthoughts are things, thoughts
are things.
And so, as we think as a manthinketh right, so is he.
And so this is the pattern ofT-bar and the byproduct that I
recognize and utilize in my lifeand so many other people's
(13:19):
lives.
Jerry Henderson (13:20):
Yeah, so powerful and fast forward.
You know you talked about yourfirst year of making a million
and then from there iscompounded and multimillionaire.
At this point, and startingwith the thoughts, the curiosity
thoughts, are things I mean.
I love that.
I love the book Think andGrow'm listening to this and
maybe I don't feel like I'mworthy of wealth and I have all
(13:48):
these blocks.
What are some of the tips thatyou would give?
Not even tips, right, becausethis isn't about tips, it's
about rewiring.
But when you think about aperson who has these limiting
beliefs around money, what aresome of the most common limiting
beliefs that you've seen, thatyou've witnessed people repeat
(14:09):
rehearse that has caused them tosabotage the life that they
want to live?
Ian Prukner (14:12):
Yeah, I think there's five of them
specifically that I've seen innow 20 years of helping people
to create lives that they loveand substantial wealth.
The first one, for spiritualaudiences, is that money is evil
, or that the love of money isevil and the money is not evil.
(14:33):
Money is an inanimate object.
Right, okay, the Bible does saythat the love of money is the
root of all evil, but there'ssomething after that, and when
we take scriptures out ofcontext, they can become a con
text, right, okay, and so whathappens?
There said you know that thelove for the love of money is
the root of all evil.
For some, having essentiallybeen money hungry, have walked
(14:56):
away from the faith right Inpursuit of these things.
And so one of the biggest beliefhurdles that I had to overcome
coming out of the ministry wasdoes God want me to be wealthy?
Does God want me to have money?
And what I found is God doesnot mind us having money as long
as money doesn't have us.
That is God's position, andthat's just not money.
(15:18):
By the way, it's all thingsthat want to exalt their
position in our lives over hisposition.
It might be a relationship withsomebody that we over his
position.
It might be a relationship withsomebody that we place above
God.
It might be our status or ourimage, it might be our health,
it could be a hobby or someother thing, and God wants to be
first place in our life.
And so does God want you to bewealthy?
(15:40):
He sure doesn't mind it as longas you are not being controlled
by that thing, right?
And so that's one of the firstthings If you disdain money, you
definitely will not have any ofit.
Okay, yeah, that is beliefNumber one.
The second belief that I seeall the times of money changes
people.
I don't want money to change me.
Folks.
(16:00):
Money doesn't change people.
It exposes people.
It exposes people.
It doesn't change who you are.
It reveals who you are.
When you have power, when youhave money, when you have
opportunity.
Those things reveal your true,unbridled intentions.
And so if you're a great personwith money, you're going to
help a lot of amazing causes.
(16:20):
You're going to create a lot ofincredible investments and
opportunities.
You're going to leave the worldin a net better place.
You're going to be a netcontributor to society.
If you have a lot of resourcesand you're a great person.
Now, if you're a selfish person, if you're a mean spirited
person, then all that does isamplify what you already are.
You'll be greedier than youwere.
(16:41):
You'll be more selfish than youwere.
You'll be more self-centeredmeaner to people because you can
get away with it.
But the money didn't change you.
You are always you.
It just exposes you.
And so what I always try tocoach people on is if you're
afraid of money changing you,why don't you just change you,
and then you won't have to beafraid of money changing you.
You change you first.
(17:01):
You become the person thatyou're supposed to be.
You live out the principlesthat God has called you to live
out, and when you've changed you, you don't have to worry about
money changing you.
So that's the second belief.
The third belief is you can'ttake it with you.
Well, you can't take it withyou, and this is actually a
quite accurate belief, but itdoesn't serve us.
You're right, you can't take itwith you.
(17:23):
You can stuff it in your coffin.
It won't do anybody any goodthere.
And that is simultaneously nota reason to um to relinquish our
call on our life, to be greatstewards and to learn to manage
money, to multiply money, tomake money.
It's not an excuse for nothaving anything, because, yeah,
(17:43):
you can't take it with you, butyou can leave it behind to
people you care about and causesthat matter to you, and you can
make a difference with it.
And so, just because you can'ttake it with you, that's far too
selfish of a way to evolve.
I can't have it.
When I'm gone, then forgetabout all these other deserving
people and causes too Goodriddance to them.
Right, that's a gospel ofselfishness that is masked in
(18:09):
some form of altruism.
Right, we can't take it withyou.
Okay, so that is a belief thatI've watched over and over and
over again in people's life.
How much is enough?
How much is enough?
This is another one.
When's enough enough?
Well, I think we should makeall we can, we should save all
(18:29):
we can, we should give all wecan, because in a capitalist
society, money is a certificateof merit Money unless you're
stealing it from people.
They have given it to you inexchange for your goods or your
services, or your time or yourknowledge, and so the more of it
we're able to accumulate, themore service we've rendered to
other people.
(18:50):
The only way we don't havemoney in a capitalist society is
when we serve our needs aloneinstead of the needs of other
people, because nobody pays youto serve yourself, right, but
they'll pay you to take care ofthem.
And so how much is enough?
I want to get as much of it asI can.
I want to give as much of it asI can.
I want to invest as much of itas I can.
I want to leave as big of amark there that I possibly can.
(19:13):
I want to be abundant withmoney, not in lack with money.
So those, jerry, those fourthere's a fifth, but those four
are the main areas where I seepeople struggle consistently
with their belief systems andmoney because ultimately, they
have negative feelings andemotions towards that, and that
(19:34):
manifests in all sorts ofself-sabotage and being
unwilling to learn and grow andto take control over those
things.
And that's not what we want itto.
We want to maintain our agencyover the tool of money.
I am going to give you thefifth one.
Okay, money won't make you happy.
This is a tough one, right?
Okay, well, money won't makeyou happy.
(19:54):
Okay, well, toasters won'tdrive you to work either.
Money was not meant to make youhappy.
Money is a tool for transaction.
It's a store of wealth and time.
It is not meant to make youhappy.
Just like I said, toastersaren't meant to drive you to
school and cell phones aren'tmeant to fly you to New York.
They are not the right tool.
(20:14):
And so, as long as we'relooking at money to be something
it can never be, was neverdesigned to be, will never be.
We'll always be frustrated withmoney because we misunderstand
its place in our lives.
It's not there as a tool tomake us happy.
It's there as a tool to help ustransact and to help exchange
value with one another.
Jerry Henderson (20:34):
So good.
You know there's so many thingsthat you know, as you shared,
that even all these aha momentsfor me and as I even thought
about it, was you shared in thebeginning for the spiritual
audience around.
You know money is the root ofall evil and if people aren't in
that spiritual space they'relike well, capitalism is evil,
or this structure, this system,is all evil.
There's always these things andhere's what I've learned about
(20:56):
us as people myself our firstsurface story really isn't the
story right, that first surfacestory of money's evil.
It changes people.
I'm afraid of that, can't takeit with you.
How much is enough?
It won't make me happy.
All of those are often thenarrative that we put forward,
(21:16):
but there's usually somethingright below the surface of that
and that thing that's rightbelow the surface of it may be a
sense of worthiness you knowthat if I get it it's going to
be taken away, I'm not worthy tohave it or a root in poverty.
You know I grew up on thewelfare system in the US, very
poor.
You know we had to go to foodlines at that time back in the
(21:37):
day and we're the Salvation Armyand all these other places to
get our meals and my mother wasshoplifting groceries at times
in order to feed us, and moneyfor me was a stress.
I associated money as stressbecause it was a source of
arguments in our home constantlyand my nervous system got wired
to see that as something that Ididn't want to deal with.
(22:00):
I didn't want to talk about it,I didn't want to look at it,
because that's how I got wiredand then I could then create a
story from that, which is, wellyou know, money's evil.
In this story and narrative,what's actually happening is
I've got some trauma with moneyor I've got some sense of
unworthiness.
Talk to us about what you'veseen in that space.
Ian Prukner (22:21):
Yeah, I love what you're talking about with the
story, and the story is just theremoval of our responsibility,
our removal of our ownresponsibility to win with money
.
This is confusing.
This makes me feel bad, I feelashamed, I feel guilty, I feel
stressed, I feel whatever thesethings are, and so this is a
great cover story thatalleviates me from having to
(22:43):
perform in this area of my life.
So, if I can just have thisgreat cover, that sounds very
altruistic, sounds very noble,I'm highest and above this
little thing called money, andthis is not a necessity in my
life.
It's a great cover story thatdeludes only us.
We're the only one deceived bythat.
Your bank doesn't care aboutyour story, and neither does
(23:06):
your investment account or thevacation you want to take, or
the family you want to give toor the cause that you care about
.
They don't buy your story.
You're the only one by you'reselling it and you're buying it,
but you're the only one doingboth of those things in our life
and, like I said, it helps usto evade our responsibility, and
I believe it is aresponsibility.
Jerry, I think that the Bible isreally clear.
(23:27):
There's a story in there calledthe parable of the talents that
Jesus talks about, and in itsmost literal sense.
There's a wealthy landowner wholeaves his three servants, and
he leaves each of them with ameasure of money.
One has five pieces of money,one has two, the other one has
one and he goes away.
He doesn't say when he's goingto come back.
The one who has five doubles itto ten.
(23:48):
The one who has two doubles itto four.
The one who has one is afraid,doesn't know what to do.
He doesn't have the education,he's never been bothered by this
little thing called money, andso he's entrusted with this,
doesn't know what to do with it,so he buries it.
So at least I'll give it backto him.
So the master comes back andthe one who has five says master
(24:09):
, here's your five and I'vegained you five more.
And he says to him well done,good and faithful servant.
The one who has two also hasmultiplied his money.
Now, he didn't have 10, he hadfour.
He doubled it.
So he took what he had and hegrew it.
He had four and the master saidwell done, good and faithful
servant.
Well, the one who has one saysmaster, you're a hard man and
you reap where you haven't sownand I was afraid and I didn't
(24:33):
want to lose it, so I buried it.
Here's your one back.
And that servant thought thatthat would have been acceptable.
But that's not what the mastersaid.
The master said you wicked lazyservant, you should have at
least put it on deposit with thebankers, where I would have
received interest.
And then he says something very, very interesting, and it's
still happening today.
He says take from the one whohas one and give to the one who
(24:57):
has 10.
And what he's saying here is,when we don't steward money,
what we have will be taken fromus and given to the people who
have it.
In other words, the rich becomericher and the poor become
poorer.
Why?
Because the rich understandmoney, they understand its place
in its life, in their life,they respect it, they honor it
(25:19):
and they use it.
And poor people are afraid ofit, they reject it, they avoid
it, they try to stay away fromit, and so even what they have
ends up being transferred to thewealthy right, because money
won't go where it's not wanted,it won't go there, it won't stay
there, it won't multiply there.
Jerry Henderson (25:37):
Yeah, so good.
Yeah, because you think aboutin that story, right, the fear
that was there and there's somuch fear that comes around
money, and the fear of I don'tknow what to do with it, I don't
know how to handle it, I don'twant to lose it.
I, you know, I don't know ifI'm once again worthy of it, and
if I I don't have it, maybe itreinforces my story of not being
worthy of it.
And, once again, if I get itand I lose it, well, that's
(26:05):
going to reinforce my narrativethat I have about myself,
because it often feels like thatmoney can be in some ways, in
all cases, right.
There's people who choose acertain lifestyle, and I think
about very rich people whochoose a certain outward
lifestyle that you'd never know,right, and so they make these
decisions around, but they stillhave those resources and they
have a certain mindset.
And so, as you think abouthelping people transition from
(26:28):
the fear, from the worthiness orthe unworthiness because you
talked about, thoughts arethings that then install belief
systems that then cause us totake certain actions or not take
certain actions, and then weget results from all of that.
You know limitations tosomething that's expansive, to
(26:59):
something that opens them up totheir worthiness to changing
their relationship with it.
And what is the mindset ofthose who open themselves up?
Ian Prukner (27:04):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I think that awareness isalways the first step to change,
and, specifically in money, theawareness that my belief
systems around money are notserving me.
If we're not winning with money, there's a reason that that's
occurring, and that reason is us, it's me, it's you, and that's
a really uncomfortable truth.
It's easier, sort of, to blamethe world or your upbringing or
(27:28):
the community you live in or anyother number of things, because
it's really hard to say, hey,I'm the problem, but when we can
, but when we can be aware thatwe are the problem, there's an
equally powerful truth on theother side of that that I'm also
the solution.
And so I think step one tochanging our money mindsets is
to recognize that our moneymindsets are broken, or they're
(27:49):
at least not serving us well.
They're not serving us well.
How many times, jerry, have youseen a motivational speaker in
front of a tree and he's justfiring?
Jerry Henderson (28:00):
that tree up.
Ian Prukner (28:00):
You're going to be the biggest oak tree.
You're going to be so.
You're going to be so strong.
Your trunk's going to be sowide, your leaves, they're just
going to be magnificent.
How many times have you seenthat?
Never seen that in my life andI've never seen it either.
I'm sure maybe one day we willwith the world out there.
These days, the reason treesdon't need motivational speakers
is because they were born togrow.
(28:21):
They don't need any sort ofoutside help to do what they
were made to do.
Well, we were born to grow too,and one of the areas that we're
supposed to grow in isfinancially, in our resource
management, our ability to make,save and multiply money.
Okay.
And so when we're not growingin that area, it's because
(28:42):
something has gone wrong in thewiring.
What our natural status ofgrowth and expansion, like all
living things?
Okay, we have walked away, mostof the time unknowingly, from
that natural programming.
In other words, we picked up abelief somewhere somehow that
doesn't serve the natural wiringin our life, and so it's
(29:05):
creating sort of a malfunctionthere.
With money, if, financially,I'm strapped right now, if I'm
stuck, if I've got a lot ofanxiety around money, if I don't
feel like I'm worthy of it, mybelief systems aren't serving me
.
That's awareness number one,okay.
So we need to become aware, andthen we we've got to replace
(29:25):
that belief system.
And so how do we do that?
Well, what I did all thoseyears ago is I found this man
who had the right belief systemsabout money, and what I went to
him to study was how he thoughtI.
Literally whenever I have achance to hang around very, very
wealthy or very, verysuccessful people in any field,
whether it's sports or businessor the arts and I've been very
(29:46):
blessed.
I have several billionairesthat have been personal mentors
to me.
I mentors that are some of themost recognizable names in the
world and when I'm with them,the number one thing I want to,
I want to get from them is wheredo they think differently than
I do?
Because that is where theirdifferent results are generating
(30:07):
.
Their results are differentthan mine because their thinking
is different than mine.
Remember T-bar way?
At the very beginning of allthose results are these pesky
little thoughts, these fourinches between our ears and, if
I can figure out, jerry, wheretheir thinking is different than
mine and I can begin toquestion that, challenge it,
learn it and begin to acceptsome of that thinking.
(30:31):
I can begin to believe and acton that.
So we first need to be awarethat our thinking systems are
not serving us.
The second thing we need to dois we need to replace that with
better, more positive,productive thought patterns.
Okay, and then the third thingwe do is we reprogram those
things right.
So it's one thing to think,it's another to know and believe
(30:52):
.
And so we reprogram througheither repetition or through
emotional anchoring.
Napoleon Hill calls itauto-suggestion, in other words,
what we listen to often enough,frequently enough, eventually
we begin to believe.
This is how pathological liarsbelieve their own lies.
They lie to themselves so muchthat eventually it becomes true
(31:13):
to them Not to anybody else, butthey believe it.
They do because they've heardit so many times.
So that's a negative example ofthat.
But the same is true when webegin to program new and more
positive thoughts about yourrelationships with money, why
you deserve to have success withmoney, why money is not
stressful, why money can be agreat tool in your life.
(31:35):
As you begin to reprogram that,it becomes a default and we
begin to move through that.
We're always moving towards ourmost dominant thoughts, and so
most of us are not thinkingabout what we're thinking about.
We're not even choosing ourthoughts.
They've been put there by ourparents, our upbringing, the
media, what we scroll by today.
Right and outsourcing yourthinking is an expensive job,
(31:58):
and I don't ever want to do that.
I want to make sure that we'rethinking accurately and that
we're programming those beliefsso that they become automatic.
That's where I would start.
Jerry Henderson (32:07):
Love that.
So the awareness piece, andthen even the awareness of
responsibility, right, becauseas we even think about the
psychology of happiness, all theresearch tells us, right, that
it's an inside job.
And then when we think aboutour mindset, and you know, we
want to blame the world, we wantto blame how structures are set
up, and there's some real hardtruths in this right, and some
listeners may listen to this andgo, wow, that feels a little
(32:29):
harsh, but here's the truth.
You know, if our systems arerejecting that and seeing that
as harsh, then we have to getcurious about underneath.
Ian Prukner (32:46):
That's actually the place where we should be
getting.
Yeah, it is precisely in theplace that we reject the
strongest that is likely thelocation of our greatest
opportunities for growth,because those are our most
deeply held, deeply rootedinstinctual beliefs that are
coming up in opposition to thatrooted instinctual beliefs that
are coming up in opposition tothat, and that's a good clue to
start right.
When you get really wound upabout something you hear about
(33:06):
money, that's probably a goodplace to examine your beliefs.
Jerry Henderson (33:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
And get curious about itbecause I love what you said
that they have different resultsbecause they think different.
And we can look at the resultsand say it was luck, it was this
or that, but there is athinking pattern that is
different.
And then that reprogramming,that auto-suggestion.
Now, if you were to just sharesomething with the audience
(33:34):
where you go, hey, the numberone place that I would start
doing the work you said isawareness.
Then beginning to start doingthe reprogramming work, right,
understanding what thatreplacement work.
And then the reprogramming work.
What are some of those thoughts, those top couple of thoughts
on how the people who havewealth keep wealth.
What are some of the ways theythink differently?
Ian Prukner (33:58):
Yeah, I think number one is they have money in
its rightful place in theirlife, which is they honor it,
they respect it, they understandit, they steward it, but they
are not controlled by it, theyare not in love with it.
They just have it in its rightorder and proximity to them in
(34:21):
their life.
I think that's a great startingplace for wealthy people.
They respect it.
Listen, if you talked to yourspouse the way you talk about
money, you probably wouldn'thave a spouse and that's why you
don't have any money, becauseit knows it's not.
You're never going to becomesomething that you disdain and
(34:44):
you're never going to do thework to learn something that
really pushes back against you.
And so, again, having this inits rightful place, being able
to say money is important, moneyis important.
Money helps me live my lifemore effectively.
Money makes me a more effectiveparent, makes me a more
effective leader, it makes me amore effective spouse, makes me
a more effective citizen.
(35:06):
It helps me have control overmy agency.
There's all sorts of thingsthat are good that come from
this.
So very successful people havemoney and their understanding of
money in its place, and it's ahealthy relationship that they
build with money.
That's a first belief systemand thinking pattern that I
(35:27):
would want to make sure that Ihave.
Right that this is notsomething I'm afraid of.
It's not something that I thinkis bad or evil in some way.
It's not something I think thatGod does not want me to have.
It's not something that I feelis going to want me to have.
It's not something that I feelis going to be harmful to me or
to others.
Right?
It's the idea you mentionedthat capitalism is bad People
who think that capitalism is badwork on a fixed high ideology.
(35:51):
If you ever read, there's greatbooks, a very tough read.
It's a humongous book.
It's written in the 1600s,called the Wealth of Nations,
and it's by Adam Smith, and hewas basically one of the
founders of modern economicthought, and he talks about the
creation of money.
And so, to paraphrase this,imagine going into the woods.
(36:12):
You didn't have to do anythingfor woods to exist, right, jerry
?
You were born on this planetand there were woods, and a
hundred years from now therewill still be woods in the
planet.
And so you could go into thewoods and you could take your
effort, your physical energy,and you could chop down a tree,
and nothing has happened untilyou sell that tree to a lumber
(36:35):
mill who pays you money.
And because you went into thewoods with your effort, new
money is created in the system.
That money did not exist beforethat wood was chopped down.
But before it can get to thatlumber mill it's got to get
shipped.
So a shipping company makessome money for taking their logs
(36:55):
down the river and then it getsthere.
It gets cleaned, the cleaningcompany makes some money, they
ship it to the mill, the millchops it up into two by fours,
two by sixes, all sorts of stuffright.
They sell it to Home Depot.
Those guys make some money.
Home Depot sells it to the homebuilder.
Home Depot makes some money.
They ship it on a truck.
The trucker makes some money,shows up to the job site where
the carpenters frame the housethey make some money.
(37:17):
The house gets finished.
The builder sells the house.
He makes some money.
The realtor who sold it makessome money.
The mortgage loan officer whodid the loan makes some money.
The title insurance, thehomeowner's insurance, the lawn
guy, the irrigator.
From the man in the woods whosaid I'm going to take my time,
my energy and my effort and I'mgoing to produce something with
(37:38):
it my energy and my effort andI'm going to produce something
with it there began an entirestream of new wealth creation.
And so understanding thatwealth is in super abundance,
that it is everywhere around you, I think is the second belief
that we want to cultivate,because when you believe that
for you to have more, othersmust have less, you won't go get
more.
It's also a false belief whenyou believe that all you need to
(38:01):
do it to have more is to createsomething that has not been
created before.
Now you will become supercreative and super abundant in
how you approach things.
You know, I grew up in Michiganand the Detroit area is very,
very hard hit by race riots inthe sixties, again by the
shutdowns in 2008, thebankruptcies of the big three
(38:23):
automotive companies.
And there are blocks, jerry, inDetroit you know, you've been
there okay where there are morehomes in Detroit than there are
people.
They were just all abandoned,right, and there are blocks that
are just decimated.
But do you understand, in asquare mile, in the most
impoverished area in the city ofDetroit, there are hundreds and
(38:43):
hundreds of millions of dollarssitting in that one square mile
between the homes, the cars,the raw materials.
Hundreds of millions of dollarsin what a normal person would
say is a very impoverished area.
Why?
Money is very abundant, it iseverywhere.
There's no lack of money, onlylack of ideas and effort to
(39:04):
translate into money throughcreation.
That's the second belief that Iwould work on is getting an
awareness of the opportunitiesaround you.
The third belief that I wouldbegin to work on or thought
process, really more of athought process than a belief is
how can I, how can I see mostpeople.
(39:25):
They look at a dream home andsay I'd love to have that, but I
can't afford it.
They look at that car oh, itmust be nice, but I couldn't
afford that.
They look at the nice dinner orthe nice trip and I can't, I
can't.
And I can't is a lie.
Can't and won't are twodifferent things.
Okay, and when we say I can't,our subconscious mind says okay,
(39:46):
sounds good.
And shuts off and goes to rest.
But when we begin to think,instead of I can't, into how can
I, how can I afford that?
How could I acquire theresources for this?
Now our mind becomes infinitelycreative.
Jerry, what's your birthday?
Jerry Henderson (40:05):
October 7th.
Ian Prukner (40:06):
Why did you answer that?
Jerry Henderson (40:08):
Because that's the day I was born, man, it's
just who I am, but because Iasked you.
Yeah, because you asked me yeah.
Ian Prukner (40:14):
I asked you a question, and so your brain is
wired to come up with answers tothe questions it is asked.
And when we say I can't, westop asking questions.
But when we say how can I?
We become infinitely curious.
Our brain goes into overdrive.
There's a fun illustration Ilove to do when I speak and I've
done this on stages with 20 and30,000 people.
(40:37):
It's a lot of fun.
I'll bring two random audiencemembers up.
I don't talk to them beforehandand I have a shiny $20 bill
that I bring up.
Smack that thing in my hand,right, shiny 20.
And I say hey, we have talkedabout this right now.
Okay, you don't know what we'redoing.
Okay, well, we're going to havea contest and here's the rules
of the contest.
You've got to go from this sideof the stage to this side of
(40:57):
the stage.
Okay, you get three seconds ofdowntime on each side.
Here's the rules you can't walkand you can't repeat yourself,
and you can't repeat whatsomebody else has done, and the
last person still crossing thisstage is going to win this $20.
Are you ready?
And it becomes so much fun.
(41:18):
People get their cameras out.
It's wild.
The audience erupts.
You got people doing the crabwalk, you got a barrel rolling.
I had one guy one time become awheelbarrow partnership where
the one guy was walking on hishands and the other dude was
holding his legs pushing himbehind him.
I mean really crazy things,right.
And so sometimes this will goon for three or four minutes and
(41:41):
they'll see you see 20, 30, 40different variations and
eventually one of them willblank out and they just won't be
able to think in that.
Three seconds and they're doneand the winner is crowned.
I'll bring the winner up.
I say now.
Now let me ask you a question.
I saw you do this move and thismove and this move.
When's the last time you didthat in your life?
When's the last time, jerry,you crab walked?
(42:02):
It's probably been a while,right, if ever.
Okay, so you didn't come tothis event today planning to
crab walk across the stage infront of 20,000 people, but you
did right, and you did someother stuff that it quite
honestly looks like your bodyhas never done before.
Okay, and you had three secondsand you were in front of 20,000
(42:23):
people and your brain firedthose things off, one after
another, after another afteranother, effortlessly.
It came to you, it controlledthousands and tens of thousands
of movements and musclemovements in instantaneous
fashion.
Why?
Because when the why is clear,the how to appears.
(42:44):
When we give our mind achallenge, a question, a problem
to solve, it becomes infinitelycreative.
And when we say I can't, weshut off our creativity stream.
When we say how can I, we openourself up to a world of
(43:06):
possibilities.
I could tell you so manystories of incredible wealth
that's been generated in my lifeby asking myself this question,
ian how can I?
And letting my brain do thatwork for me as it will for you?
Jerry Henderson (43:16):
Yeah, absolutely, and I want the
listeners to make sure you hearthat as it will for you.
Yeah, absolutely, and I wantthe listeners to make sure you
hear that as it will for you,because we're all on this planet
trying to figure it out.
We're living this life for thefirst time and what I loved
about what you said is, onceagain, it's anchoring in that
curiosity, right, and so manypeople will adopt that story
that it's not for me or I can't,or whatever that narrative is.
And there's a long history thatgoes behind that story that
(43:37):
it's not for me or I can't, orwhatever that narrative is.
And there's a long history thatgoes behind that story and the
development of it.
The good news is is it canchange faster than it was
developed.
We do the work of rewiring yeah, much faster as we think about
those stories and the I can't.
You know, the neuroscience showsus that when we get curious and
(44:00):
we start to say how can I, itactually activates the approach
system in our brain that ismotivated, that causes us to
move towards change in our life.
And when we say things like Ican't or I never will, that
actually connects to our avoidsystem of our brain that's based
(44:21):
in fear, anxiety, and it causesus to avoid moving forward.
And for the listeners who arethinking about well, it's just
words.
It goes beyond just words.
It's actually neuroscience.
It activates, lights up regionsin your brain that causes you
to start approaching something.
And here's the interestingthing about this Will, as you
talked about earlier, the treeright.
(44:43):
Its natural state is for it togrow and we'll give that, you
know, our head nod towards 99%of things in our life in some
sense right.
Like you know, it's natural forme to, you know, learn how to
get better if I'm pursuing aneducation.
Or it's natural for me to growin this area, that area, etc.
It's natural for a kid to startgrowing, you know, and adding
(45:07):
inches to their height.
But for some reason, when westart talking about money and we
start talking about wealth,there's something that just
starts to shut down, because weknow emotional growth, mental
growth, you know even relationalgrowth.
Yeah, those things are good, weshould be doing those things.
But, as you talk about, Ishould have evidence of
financial growth in my life,because it's not some separate
(45:29):
thing.
We like to categorize it andchunk it over to something that
we can avoid.
It's a natural extension ofwhat you said creating value in
this world.
Am I creating value?
Am I activating the creativeparts of who I am to bring
something into this world thatallows everybody in some sense
(45:49):
to begin to benefit in some way?
And so when we think about thatnatural growth piece, the
desire to want to becomeself-expansive, we exclude that
piece for some reason.
And so if you were to give youknow the Ian who was you know
20-some years ago or how manyever years ago, who was in that
(46:11):
moment, who all of a suddenshifted to curiosity and you
know you might have somebodylistening right now who's in
that exact state, what would bethe one piece of advice that you
would have given to youryounger self earlier on, or give
to the listener, who just needsto hear that they do have the
potential to transform theirlife in this space?
Ian Prukner (46:31):
I tell myself two things Think a whole lot bigger
and find the right mentors.
That's the two things I wouldtell myself.
Right, because, knowing what Iknow, on the other side of it, I
played too small for too longand that kept my earning
potential down longer than itshould have, kept my net worth
uh, uh, acquiring potential downmuch longer than it should have
(46:54):
.
And then having the rightmentors, getting around people
specifically seeking them out,paying for them if you need to,
but putting myself in proximityof people who had the life that
I wanted, so that I couldmeticulously study the thoughts
that created that life and beginto model those back into my own
life.
Jerry Henderson (47:14):
Love that so good, ian.
Before we close out, I justfirst want to say thank you so
much for everything that you'veshared with us today.
Is there anything else thatyou'd like to share?
Before we move on, and I wantto highlight your book and some
other resources for people- yeah, I would just tell you that
great relationships matter inlife.
Ian Prukner (47:32):
I think we all know that.
A great relationship with yourspouse if you have a spouse,
that'll make you or break you, Ithink, great relationships with
your kids, with coworkers, withfriends.
Well, relationships with moneymatter too, and I would
encourage you to go on thejourney of cultivating a
positive, productive andempowering relationship with
(47:53):
money, and as you develop that,you'll have a much better
experience with money.
Your experience will alwaysmatch your relationship, and so
if'll have a much betterexperience with money, your
experience will always matchyour relationship.
And so if you have a troubledrelationship with money, you're
going to have a troubledexperience with it.
But if you have a greatrelationship with money, a
positive one, an empowering one,you're going to have a great
positive and empoweringexperience with money.
(48:14):
And so if our experience hasn'tbeen all that we want it to be,
let's go back to therelationship that we have with
it and begin to work there.
Jerry Henderson (48:22):
So powerful, totally shifts our energy when
we look at it as a relationship,versus some finite thing that
we're just trying to grasp onto.
And you've got a new book thatjust recently came out and the
title of it is 12 Words thatChange Everything.
Why don't you tell ourlisteners a little bit about
your new book?
Ian Prukner (48:39):
Yeah, so it's my second book just became a
bestseller against.
That's amazing.
And the premise of the book isthat our words are creating our
world and that we have a lot ofcreative power inside of us.
And there are 12 words that Ifound especially useful in
creating the life that I'velived now, overcoming a lot of
the obstacles that we'veovercome and building a lot of
(49:00):
the dreams that we've been ableto live.
And those 12 words are notwords that are taught in school
regularly.
They're not part of thediscourse, of everyday
conversation, which is why theydon't create lives that look
like everyday people's lives.
These are powerful ideas thatare wrapped into words that can
describe them, and so there's 12chapters in the book.
(49:22):
Each chapter is dedicated toone of those words that has
profoundly impacted my life, aword that doesn't get the
credibility and the tractionthat it deserves, but is much,
much needed if you want to livea life of significant success.
So that's the moral of 12 wordsthat change everything.
Jerry Henderson (49:38):
Awesome.
Thank you, ian.
Thank you so much for takingyour time to be here and
listeners.
If you're interested in pickingup either one of Ian's books
whether it's byproduct or hislatest book, 12 Words that
Change Everything you can simplysee the show notes in this
episode.
You'll also see a link to afree resource that Ian has
created for this audience.
It's Five Day Money moneymindset checkup.
(50:00):
And so encourage free resource,get access to that and start
your journey on changing the waythat you think about money and
your relationship with money.
And also if you're interested inlearning more about how to work
with Ian in this space ofshifting your money mindset, you
can reach out to him onInstagram.
His handle there is at IanProchner.
(50:22):
I'm also including a link tohis Instagram in the show notes
of this episode.
I just want to say thank you somuch for being here for another
episode with Personal Mastery,so grateful for this community.
If you've not yet had a chanceto subscribe or follow, take a
moment to do that, because Idon't want you to miss out on a
single episode.
Chance to subscribe or follow.
Take a moment to do thatbecause I don't want you to miss
out on a single episode, and Iwant to remind you that you are
worthy of a life that feels asgood on the inside as it looks
(50:45):
on the outside.
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