October 23, 2024 • 23 mins
Today's Play: Our guest reflects on his experience speaking to MLS Academy 8th and 9th graders about the slim chances of making it to the professional ranks and the importance of prioritizing academics for college recruitment. The discussion delves into the role of social media in recruiting, advising players to be mindful of their online presence. They explore alternative divisions and governing bodies like NAIA, NJCAA, and community colleges, highlighting the financial advantages and competitive opportunities they offer. Ultimately, the conversation emphasizes the importance of finding a balanced college experience that fosters academic, athletic, and personal growth, rather than just chasing a Division 1 dream.
Today's Coach: Kyle Gookins is a former Division I Head Men's Soccer Coach who currently is the Director of My College Soccer, a college soccer recruiting consulting agency. He has over 23 years of coaching experience at every level of youth and amateur soccer and has also been a US Soccer Scout for the USSF Youth national teams.
To note: The "head count" and "equivalency" scholarship models discussed in this episode are currently in flux as the NCAA determines roster limits in the aftermath of the House v. NCAA settlement.
To learn more about Bryant College Coaching, and download our new e-book, click here or go to www.bryantcollegecoaching.com
Picking Teams: A Playbook for Parents is produced by: Amy Bryant and Sasha Melamud
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amy Bryant (00:05):
Amy, welcome to picking teams a podcast that
dives into the playbooks ofseasoned coaches. I'm your host.
Amy Bryant, a 23 year veterancollege coach, and my guests
hail from the professionalcollege and youth together,
we'll share real stories fromour coaching experiences to
empower you as parents to bepositive forces in your child's
(00:28):
sports journey.
Our guest today is Kyle Gookins.
Kyle is a former division onehead men's soccer coach who
currently is the director of mycollege soccer, a college soccer
recruiting consulting agency. Hehas over 23 years of coaching
experience at every level ofyouth and amateur soccer, and
(00:52):
has also been a US Soccer scoutfor the USSF youth national
teams. Yes. So tell me aboutthis, this latest conversation.
Kyle Gookins (01:03):
So I was at an MLS Academy meeting with you 15 so
you have eighth graders andninth graders in a room, and
every single one of them haveaspirations of playing pro,
because that's they're in an MLSAcademy. They think, you know,
they see the first team. Theysee how they see the direct
pathway, like there is a directpathway to be a pro. And, you
(01:27):
know, I start talking collegesoccer, and I can see some of
them just kind of like staringoff into space. And I was like,
so I have to kind of put somedata out there that look guys,
like, the reality of you allmaking it Pro is very, very,
very, very, very slim. I said, Ihope you do all do. I would love
it. I'm here to help you. I wantall of you to receive your
dreams, but, like, there'sdifferent routes. And so then
(01:49):
I'd pop up the academic piece,and I'm like, you know, if you
think your talent alone is goingto get you, like, if you think,
all right, yeah, maybe I don'tget a pro, but I get to, I'll
play college. I'm going to be areally good player. Someone's
just going to notice me and I'mgoing to get recruited. I was
like, That could work. That'ssome, that's a few people's
recruiting stories, but themajority it's not. And think of
(02:12):
how many other kids there arelike you. And so if you slack
off on like this academic piece,and you just kind of, especially
when you're online, they're alldoing online school, and some of
them are not even there withhost families. So they're,
you're asking 14 year olds to 13and 14 year olds to be relying
on the whole unaccountable tothemselves. And we've all been
(02:35):
1314, and I was like, Look, ifyou you know not to be like the
bear bad news. But if you don'tfocus as a freshman in high
school, like it could come backto bite you some colleges like
the best you know that UCLA cancome after you, and they'll say,
I'm sorry, but you know, yourfreshman grades can't get you
in. Yeah, no matter how good youkick a ball, it doesn't matter.
(02:57):
It doesn't matter how fast yourun. Doesn't, doesn't, doesn't
matter. So I was like, you know,it's the whole piece, this
recruiting piece, especially inthe pathway to playing college.
It's not just how well youperform as an athlete, it's how
well you do academically. It'salso what you are as a person.
Yeah, I think like, you have tounderstand, like they'll look at
you, you know, soccer wisefirst, but then they just kind
(03:20):
of looked at me, and then they,then they asked about social
media. Well, do coaches look atsocial media? I was like, 100%
and how else will they find outabout a player? You know,
they're going to talk to yourcoaches, and then they're going
to do as much research as theycan. If you put a lot out there
on social media, that's a lotfor them to go through. So like,
(03:41):
I can see their eyes, like,huge, you know, these eighth and
ninth graders, like, it's like,I'm not trying to scare you. I'm
just telling you that, like, youknow how hard you work on the
soccer field is how hard youshould also work in this in the
classroom, like it should justbe the game. So it was, it was
definitely eye opening for them.
They were just kind of like,what we know, should we even
start this process? Like, whatdo we do? And I was like, You
(04:02):
guys are in such a informationage that you can just do
research on any school you wantat any time, right? Like, that's
amazing. Like, right? Doresearch, watch games like,
learn about schools. Like,understand those things. You
know, gone are the days whereyou got sent a media guide in
the mail that you spend roomabout. So I had to kind of tell
(04:23):
them, like, you know, you got todo a little bit of research
ahead of time. So they werelike, okay, so I was asking,
like, what would you what do youwhat do you think? How can you
start? They were just like, wecould Google, like, the soccer
rankings. I'm like, that's how Iwould start. But yeah, so what I
would do go out, who are thebest teams in the sport I play?
All right? Those are the schoolsI want to go to, yep, and then
(04:45):
let's look at the roster and seewhere those kids played. And
exactly what I said, I was like,did they recruit any players
from your team in the past?
Like, did you, you know? And itwas like, do they recruit
Americans? Like, is it highlyforeign, especially in certain
sports, it can be very foreigndominated. So they just kind of
(05:07):
were like, okay, yeah. They werelike, you know, it was, it was
an interesting conversationwith, you know, ninth graders
that were like, I was like, Iknow you're early in the
process, but it's never tooearly to just start to research
on your own. Yeah, I was tellingthem. I was like, I like I like
to coin the phrase like, activediscovery, because, like, if
you, if you just think talentalone is going to get you there,
(05:28):
that's passive discovery. That'sjust like, my soccer is going to
speak for itself, or myvolleyball, it is. It's just
going to take care of it, andthat that can happen. But it's
very passive. It's very like,you know where I say, like, take
an active role, do someresearch, figure out,
Amy Bryant (05:44):
yep. So yeah. I mean, yeah, I always tell the
kids that they have to be theirown best advocate in the process
as well. They're just sittingback and hoping that a coach is
going to find them. Then there.
Doesn't matter how strong theyare. It doesn't matter how good
they are. They're they're reallyleaving a lot to chance.
Kyle Gookins (06:06):
There's also the fact that, like, some coaches
will, and not all, some coachesare very good recruiters, but
some coaches will look at a teamand go, like, I'm not sure any
of those kids would beinterested in high school,
absolutely. And so, like, theywon't even take the chance. You
know, coaches are used tohearing like, No, I'm not
interested. Or not. Or, youknow, you talk to the coach,
(06:27):
Hey, would anyone be interestedin the school from this area?
Whereas, like, you don't know Iwas telling kids, like, you
showing interest is alreadylike, okay, that's one less step
I have to take as a coach. Iknow this player is interested.
So I would say, like, if youtake the first step, show that
you're interested, they'reprobably going to watch you.
Yeah. Like, all right, I don'thave to convince this player to
(06:49):
come to the school. They alreadywant to come.
Amy Bryant (06:52):
Yep, no. I mean, that's so true. I was just
talking to a tennis player aboutthis, a male tennis player, and
he happens to be, you know, justbelow the cusp of getting some
really impressive d1 schools totalk to him, but also just above
the cusp of where maybe somelower mid major schools would,
(07:16):
you know, would feel comfortablereaching out to him. And so I
think that those Lower Midmajors, you know, he's like, I
can get so and so to call meback, but I can't get so and so
to call me back the lower midmajor. And I'm like, it's
because they think that you're,you know, they might think that
you're not even interested inthem. So you've got to do the
work and let them know, Hey, Iam interested in you, and
(07:37):
particularly when it comes tomoney. And if there's, you know,
there's scholarships involved,if, you know, if, if you want to
get that money, you can't belooking necessarily at a reach
school. You gotta be looking ata school where maybe you are
going to be one of the betterkids.
Kyle Gookins (07:54):
Yeah it's like those when you're going, I
always tell people, like, whenyou're going to start the
process and you start to kind oflay out, like, right? What is
important in this play collegesports? Like, just put a list
of, like, All right, here are myneeds and here are my wants.
Like, if like, you just said,like, you hit like the hot
button is, like, if scholarshipmoney is in need, you're
(08:16):
probably gonna your dreamschools are not gonna get
crossed off pretty quickly,like, right? Because you'll
know, quickly, if they want to,they're going to tell you. So
it's like, even reach schoolsthat may be like, alright, we
need to look at other schoolsthat are closer within reach.
Or, you know, like you said, alower mid major, or sometimes
dropping a division, like, ifthat financial is a big, is a
(08:37):
big deal for you that, allright, like, what, you know,
that's a need. I can't, I can'ttake away that need. But, like,
all right, what are some, youknow, what are some wants I'm
going to sacrifice, like,location, division, size of
school, things like that. Soit's like, I think, like, having
those needs and wants as you gointo that process, then you then
you can go, like, alright, it'seasier for me to navigate and
and then be your best advocate.
Like, Alright, maybe I need topursue these Lower Mid majors
(09:00):
more so they don't genuinelyinterested. Because, you're
right, they're like, alright, amI gonna waste my time with this
guy that's like, you know,probably just sending out emails
and then gonna end up at thisschool, at this school. So,
Amy Bryant (09:18):
right, yeah. And, you know, not only dropping
divisions, but also consideringother governing bodies too. I
mean, if we're talking about thedivisions in the NCAA, we should
also explore, you know, Naia,there's great financial
opportunities there, NJCAA, oreven the California Community
(09:40):
Association, the prices of thosejunior college programs are
really something worthexploring. And then, you know,
lot of scholarships these days,especially in equivalency
sports, are back loadedscholarships, so you're really
not looking at money,significant money to your junior
or senior year. Anyways, if yougo to a junior college,
(10:01):
community college, first coupleyears, then you become a little
more eligible for significantmoney junior year transferring.
Kyle Gookins (10:08):
It's so true. And I think you said something I
don't think people realize, is,like you said, where, like,
college coaches know thesethings equivalency. So there's
equivalency sports, then there's10 pound sports. So like, talk
more about, like, theequivalency, or like, what that
means for people, like, really,because people don't just think
like a scholarship toscholarship. They don't Right,
Amy Bryant (10:27):
right? Well, so there's only six sports in the
NCAA that are head count sports.
That's it. Football's one ofthem. FBS. Football gets 85 full
head counts, scholarships, fullfull scholarship, full rides for
all those you either you eitherget it or you don't get it
exactly, exactly. And then therest of the equivalency sports
(10:50):
are all women's sports, or,well, there's men's basketball
as well. So sorry, there's men'sbasketball. And then the rest of
them are women's sports, becausethey're trying to with Title
Nine, we have to, you know,remain equitable. So all the
women's sports have to keep upwith those 85
Kyle Gookins (11:06):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I think that's what
you know. I think most you know,like, I deal with a soccer ball
like that. Like, could you get a4x scholarship? Yes. Is it
likely? No, probably not in the,yeah, especially not your first
year. No,I do send, like, back loaded. So
I think some people don'trealize, like, yeah, they may
(11:28):
offer you, like, probably next,if nothing, your freshman year,
but they like, sophomore,junior, senior year, they'll
look at it as, like, a four yearplan. It's like, here's how we
can really help you. So it'slike, you, I think you
mentioned, like, the California,community California community
colleges are incredible,especially in the soccer world,
because I have a close friendthat I played with who coaches
that one of them I'm pretty surethey just passed something where
(11:50):
it's free for Californiaresidents.
Amy Bryant (11:54):
I think you're right, yeah, right, yeah.
Kyle Gookins (11:56):
So that's like, a no brainer, like, oh, I can play
two years for free, and then,like, go somewhere like that
Amy Bryant (12:05):
And then there's automatic transfer in, the
automatic transfer in, and it'sinto the UCs, right, yeah, and
they're so competitive to getinto as a first year. So it's
like, you know, for coachesworking that system at a UC,
they've got, they've got anautomatic feeder system. As
juniors, kids are getting twoyears to really, you know, grow,
(12:27):
develop, become great teammates,all that good stuff, and then
they don't even have to workwith admissions to get them in
to the school. As juniors, it'slike the winner
Kyle Gookins (12:39):
So true. And having, you know, every coach
would look for that into like,okay, that's this is an easier
route to get people in to theschool, like you said to the
automatic computer systemtotally. And I think people
should, you know, look outsideof divisions. That's so
important. I think NAIA is, isalso a really good one to look
at. Yeah, no, I had lunch with acoach at the MLS Academy I was
(13:01):
at. I was like, oh, you know, Iwant to meet this guy in
Chatham. And I asked he's, he'spoor, he's from Ireland. But he
was like, I played NAIA. I lovedit. Had a great time. Like, he's
like, I didn't know. It was kindof like a beautiful naivety of
like, I didn't know what NCAA orNAIA was. I didn't care. Right,
problem here with domesticplayers is they know the
(13:21):
difference. And NAIA is notNCAA. It's not on march back.
It's it's not, you know, inthese big, these big conferences
that are out there, football andbasketball and so, you know,
they will automatically castjudgment to it. But like when
you break it down, you just lookat it, they offer pretty much
the same product. It's just adifferent governing body,
Amy Bryant (13:43):
different governing body, same product. And most of
the schools are smaller schoolsthat offer incredible academic
support for the studentathletes. You know, I liken NIH
Division Two, NCAA Division two.
There's a lot of similaritiesthere in terms of the smaller
schools and sports systems andthe resources, but great options
that people should be exploring.
(14:11):
Kyle, have you had anyexperience with the USCAA at
all?
Kyle Gookins (14:19):
Very small, but a little bit, yes, a little bit.
Have you
Amy Bryant (14:24):
the only experience I've had? There's a very active
coach here in the south where Iactually, I think he just moved
to Division Three, and he's,he's, he's really great at all
of the, you know, acnl soccertournaments around talking to
all the boys, and every singleboy that I've worked with that's
a male soccer player has told methat they've heard from this
(14:46):
coach at the school, you know?
So he's a great recruiter. Andthe guys are like, well, I
don't, you know. I don'tunderstand. What are they
playing? Like? Well, it's theUSDA. What is it the United
States College AthleticAssociation, like a
Kyle Gookins (15:03):
little, yeah, it's different. But I've not, I've
only had conversations with afew coaches. I've never dealt
with any clients and like, helpplayers get there. I mean, I
think it's a great opportunityfor people that want to when you
like, I said, when you break itdown to like, what what they're
offering. It's the same product,yep, well, the different body
Amy Bryant (15:26):
and and when there's the opportunity to win, because
they're competing against onlyschools in the USDA, which isn't
entirely true, but the nationalchampionship, they would be
competing only get schools inthe USDA their regular season
they are competing against NCAA,Nai, you know, NJCAA, any, any,
(15:47):
any school is going to competeagainst whoever they can get
Kyle Gookins (15:51):
whoever they schedule, right? Something
games againstpeople realize it just doesn't
count towards, like, whateverthat national championship,
right going to but like, I mean,I personally played Division Two
in California, and I gotrecruited by both divisions,
division one and Division two.
And when I went through my needsand wants, my needs were like, I
(16:11):
wanted to try to win somethinglike you just mentioned, like
you have the opportunity to win.
I wanted to win. So I I went toa school that had just won a
national championship atDivision Two, they wanted, like,
two years before I got there. SoI was like, well, here's a
chance for me to play in NCAAtournaments where, like, these
other division ones, yeah, like,I could go play Division I could
say, like, yeah, I playedDivision One soccer, but the
chances of me going to the NCAAwere slid. Like, probably
(16:34):
wouldn't have done it, and I maynot have played a lot my
freshman year. And that wasanother, like, need for me so.
And this is a funny story. Iasked it was between one
division one school and thenDivision two. So I ended up
playing. And I went on my visitto the division the vision one
school, and I was chatting tothe coach. It was his first year
at the school, and he was, Ilove the guy. He was such a good
(16:55):
guy. Like, recruited me early. Iwas telling him. I was like, you
know, I'm being recruited bythis other school. What are your
thoughts on? Like, division oneversus Division two? He was
like, in men's soccer, top 10,division two would be the top 20
Division one. So I wouldn'tworry about it. So I was like,
you're basically selling me tothis other school. He's like,
I'm just being honest. Like,he's like, I'm just telling you
the truth. Like, the top schoolsin any division would be the top
(17:17):
schools in Division like, that'sjust how it works. He's like,
the difference is, like, outsideof the top 100 in Division One
is still really competitive,like, they can still beat you
where, like, sometimes inDivision Two, at least in the
men's soccer world, he's like,you can have some games that'll
be blowouts. He's like, you justdon't see as many blowouts in
the division one game. And I waslike, Okay. And then I even
(17:37):
said, like, I'm a littlehesitant, because this is your
first year at this school. Like,are you going to be here for
four years? He's still there inthis job, and he's still in the
same job. I was like, sohesitant to be like, yeah, it's
his first year. Like, yeah, behere. So every time I see him at
an event, he's like, I'm stillin the job. I was like, You are
Man. Like he said, he hugs meevery time he's I can't believe
(17:59):
I missed out on you. I was like,You were too honest. So like,
you told me to the other school.
Amy Bryant (18:05):
So it's like, I always tell people, like, be
open to like you when you reallybreak it down, like you can have
just you can have sometimes moresuccess on the field and in,
like, postseason play at adivision two or Division three.
And like, when you look at like,long lasting, like memories and
(18:25):
experiences, to me, that wasimportant, as opposed to, you
know, what division, or what thefour letters on my sweatshirt
said, yeah, that was importantto me. Like that was, I wanted
to be part of those things well,and, youknow, like, where, I
coach for as long as I did. Iwas there for a long time too,
just like that. Coach couldn't,couldn't, never get away to,
(18:48):
never want to, to be honest. Butyou know, all the players, not
all of them, but, but we, we hadour fair share of success and
won a few national titles. Andthose players can walk away
saying, I want a national title.
You know, it didn't matter thatit was a division three school
national titles, and they'rethat's what they're saying when
(19:09):
they go on their job interviews,and that's what they're talking
about. It was incrediblycompetitive, what what they did,
and how they managed thatstress, and the journey that
they went through and theexperiences that they had, what
they will always remember, andthere is no hashtag, Division
three. I didn't play divisionone in any of those
conversations. It's just, youknow, it was an incredible
(19:33):
experience. We had a post seasonwhere a lot of those Division
One schools, if they make it tothe postseason. They're looking
at, you know, potentially theirfirst game, playing against one
of the big dogs, quote, unquote,and getting blown out of the
water versus, like, you know,the competition, like, like you
said, the top 10 division twoscould play, you know, against
(19:54):
the top or against, you know,any division one. The same thing
for me, coaching tennis DivisionThree tennis, like the top 10
division threes, can competeagainst just about any mid
major, Division one. So
Kyle Gookins (20:09):
yeah, it's so true. And I don't think people
realize that is like the lifelessons you're getting and
experiences experiencingdifferent things at different
divisions. It doesn't stopbecause you went to a division
two or division three or acommunity college. It doesn't
just like, go, well, you're atthis other division. So these
(20:30):
lessons and these experiencesdon't count and aren't going to
help you later on life. I'mlike, they definitely like you,
just different experiences, likeyou have a chance to play the
NCAA Tournament, or, like yousaid, quit a national that's
incredible, like, that's stillreally hard to do. I don't think
people realize that any divisionwinning a national
championships. So I totallyagree with you, and I think, and
(20:54):
I tell some clients, likethey're like, I want to play
division one soccer. Iunderstand. I will help you
achieve that, but you're goingto sacrifice everything else on
your needs. Category, likeacademics are going out the
window, location, size ofschool, like, all right, I'm
willing to sacrifice everythingjust for that division. One
thing, I think sometimes theyhave blinders about it, when
(21:17):
it's like, really, you can havethese amazing experiences and
life lessons and, like, networksof friends and and people. And I
just don't think, you I'm sure,like, at your, you know, I'm
sure, like, the, you know, theschool you're at, the professors
would have known all of thegirls on the tennis team, and I
watched them play. And it'slike, think of that experience
(21:38):
great. Well, you don't get that.
Amy Bryant (21:42):
Think, don't get that. We had the players on the
team invite professors to beguest coaches. They sat on the
sidelines. You know, the ton ofmatches are really long, and
these would sit there for, youknow, at about hour two, I would
look at the professor and say,you can go. I got this. I know
you're coaching, guest coaching,but I've got it, you know,
Kyle Gookins (22:06):
it's so true.
Yeah,
Amy Bryant (22:08):
they loved it. They ate it up. They loved the, you
know, the connection to theprogram and the players loved
that as well. I
Kyle Gookins (22:16):
mean, I did. I went to a smaller d2 and my
senior game, my senior seminarteacher sat next to my mom, and
he didn't know it was my momuntil, like, we got gifts, you
know, in our senior game, and Iran over and, like, gave it to
her, and he's like, Oh, you'reKyle's mom. Like, I had them in
my, you know, my senior seminarclass, like, you just, like, to
me, it was like, that was cool.
Like, he invested in the teamjust as much as I did, and then
(22:37):
I invested in this class. Like,it's such a good relationship to
have, you know that I think isimportant to learn, because then
as you grow and you ask forreferences later on, when you're
applying for jobs, like, youknow, it's really as an athlete,
sometimes athletics define youtoo much. And it's like, well,
all my references are just morepeople I played with that's
(23:00):
like, well, now you have, likean educator that I can provide a
reference of a different aspectof you as a person, not just how
well you perform on a court or afield or in a pool, absolutely,
and they can attest to all thesacrifices that you made and how
you're able to balanceeverything as well with by doing
well in their classroom, And theprofessor knowing how much time
(23:20):
you put in outside of theclassroom,
Amy Bryant (23:29):
thanks for tuning in for today's play. Join us next
time to hear more insights fromanother outstanding coach. Until
then, remember, as you navigatethe ups and downs of your
child's sports journey. You'renot just picking teens, you're
building character, fosteringresilience and creating lifelong
Memories. You
Amy, welcome to picking teams a podcast that
dives into the playbooks ofseasoned coaches. I'm your host.
Amy Bryant, a 23 year veterancollege coach, and my guests
hail from the professionalcollege and youth together,
we'll share real stories fromour coaching experiences to
empower you as parents to bepositive forces in your child's
(00:28):
sports journey.
Our guest today is Kyle Gookins.
Kyle is a former division onehead men's soccer coach who
currently is the director of mycollege soccer, a college soccer
recruiting consulting agency. Hehas over 23 years of coaching
experience at every level ofyouth and amateur soccer, and
(00:52):
has also been a US Soccer scoutfor the USSF youth national
teams. Yes. So tell me aboutthis, this latest conversation.
Kyle Gookins (01:03):
So I was at an MLS Academy meeting with you 15 so
you have eighth graders andninth graders in a room, and
every single one of them haveaspirations of playing pro,
because that's they're in an MLSAcademy. They think, you know,
they see the first team. Theysee how they see the direct
pathway, like there is a directpathway to be a pro. And, you
(01:27):
know, I start talking collegesoccer, and I can see some of
them just kind of like staringoff into space. And I was like,
so I have to kind of put somedata out there that look guys,
like, the reality of you allmaking it Pro is very, very,
very, very, very slim. I said, Ihope you do all do. I would love
it. I'm here to help you. I wantall of you to receive your
dreams, but, like, there'sdifferent routes. And so then
(01:49):
I'd pop up the academic piece,and I'm like, you know, if you
think your talent alone is goingto get you, like, if you think,
all right, yeah, maybe I don'tget a pro, but I get to, I'll
play college. I'm going to be areally good player. Someone's
just going to notice me and I'mgoing to get recruited. I was
like, That could work. That'ssome, that's a few people's
recruiting stories, but themajority it's not. And think of
(02:12):
how many other kids there arelike you. And so if you slack
off on like this academic piece,and you just kind of, especially
when you're online, they're alldoing online school, and some of
them are not even there withhost families. So they're,
you're asking 14 year olds to 13and 14 year olds to be relying
on the whole unaccountable tothemselves. And we've all been
(02:35):
1314, and I was like, Look, ifyou you know not to be like the
bear bad news. But if you don'tfocus as a freshman in high
school, like it could come backto bite you some colleges like
the best you know that UCLA cancome after you, and they'll say,
I'm sorry, but you know, yourfreshman grades can't get you
in. Yeah, no matter how good youkick a ball, it doesn't matter.
(02:57):
It doesn't matter how fast yourun. Doesn't, doesn't, doesn't
matter. So I was like, you know,it's the whole piece, this
recruiting piece, especially inthe pathway to playing college.
It's not just how well youperform as an athlete, it's how
well you do academically. It'salso what you are as a person.
Yeah, I think like, you have tounderstand, like they'll look at
you, you know, soccer wisefirst, but then they just kind
(03:20):
of looked at me, and then they,then they asked about social
media. Well, do coaches look atsocial media? I was like, 100%
and how else will they find outabout a player? You know,
they're going to talk to yourcoaches, and then they're going
to do as much research as theycan. If you put a lot out there
on social media, that's a lotfor them to go through. So like,
(03:41):
I can see their eyes, like,huge, you know, these eighth and
ninth graders, like, it's like,I'm not trying to scare you. I'm
just telling you that, like, youknow how hard you work on the
soccer field is how hard youshould also work in this in the
classroom, like it should justbe the game. So it was, it was
definitely eye opening for them.
They were just kind of like,what we know, should we even
start this process? Like, whatdo we do? And I was like, You
(04:02):
guys are in such a informationage that you can just do
research on any school you wantat any time, right? Like, that's
amazing. Like, right? Doresearch, watch games like,
learn about schools. Like,understand those things. You
know, gone are the days whereyou got sent a media guide in
the mail that you spend roomabout. So I had to kind of tell
(04:23):
them, like, you know, you got todo a little bit of research
ahead of time. So they werelike, okay, so I was asking,
like, what would you what do youwhat do you think? How can you
start? They were just like, wecould Google, like, the soccer
rankings. I'm like, that's how Iwould start. But yeah, so what I
would do go out, who are thebest teams in the sport I play?
All right? Those are the schoolsI want to go to, yep, and then
(04:45):
let's look at the roster and seewhere those kids played. And
exactly what I said, I was like,did they recruit any players
from your team in the past?
Like, did you, you know? And itwas like, do they recruit
Americans? Like, is it highlyforeign, especially in certain
sports, it can be very foreigndominated. So they just kind of
(05:07):
were like, okay, yeah. They werelike, you know, it was, it was
an interesting conversationwith, you know, ninth graders
that were like, I was like, Iknow you're early in the
process, but it's never tooearly to just start to research
on your own. Yeah, I was tellingthem. I was like, I like I like
to coin the phrase like, activediscovery, because, like, if
you, if you just think talentalone is going to get you there,
(05:28):
that's passive discovery. That'sjust like, my soccer is going to
speak for itself, or myvolleyball, it is. It's just
going to take care of it, andthat that can happen. But it's
very passive. It's very like,you know where I say, like, take
an active role, do someresearch, figure out,
Amy Bryant (05:44):
yep. So yeah. I mean, yeah, I always tell the
kids that they have to be theirown best advocate in the process
as well. They're just sittingback and hoping that a coach is
going to find them. Then there.
Doesn't matter how strong theyare. It doesn't matter how good
they are. They're they're reallyleaving a lot to chance.
Kyle Gookins (06:06):
There's also the fact that, like, some coaches
will, and not all, some coachesare very good recruiters, but
some coaches will look at a teamand go, like, I'm not sure any
of those kids would beinterested in high school,
absolutely. And so, like, theywon't even take the chance. You
know, coaches are used tohearing like, No, I'm not
interested. Or not. Or, youknow, you talk to the coach,
(06:27):
Hey, would anyone be interestedin the school from this area?
Whereas, like, you don't know Iwas telling kids, like, you
showing interest is alreadylike, okay, that's one less step
I have to take as a coach. Iknow this player is interested.
So I would say, like, if youtake the first step, show that
you're interested, they'reprobably going to watch you.
Yeah. Like, all right, I don'thave to convince this player to
(06:49):
come to the school. They alreadywant to come.
Amy Bryant (06:52):
Yep, no. I mean, that's so true. I was just
talking to a tennis player aboutthis, a male tennis player, and
he happens to be, you know, justbelow the cusp of getting some
really impressive d1 schools totalk to him, but also just above
the cusp of where maybe somelower mid major schools would,
(07:16):
you know, would feel comfortablereaching out to him. And so I
think that those Lower Midmajors, you know, he's like, I
can get so and so to call meback, but I can't get so and so
to call me back the lower midmajor. And I'm like, it's
because they think that you're,you know, they might think that
you're not even interested inthem. So you've got to do the
work and let them know, Hey, Iam interested in you, and
(07:37):
particularly when it comes tomoney. And if there's, you know,
there's scholarships involved,if, you know, if, if you want to
get that money, you can't belooking necessarily at a reach
school. You gotta be looking ata school where maybe you are
going to be one of the betterkids.
Kyle Gookins (07:54):
Yeah it's like those when you're going, I
always tell people, like, whenyou're going to start the
process and you start to kind oflay out, like, right? What is
important in this play collegesports? Like, just put a list
of, like, All right, here are myneeds and here are my wants.
Like, if like, you just said,like, you hit like the hot
button is, like, if scholarshipmoney is in need, you're
(08:16):
probably gonna your dreamschools are not gonna get
crossed off pretty quickly,like, right? Because you'll
know, quickly, if they want to,they're going to tell you. So
it's like, even reach schoolsthat may be like, alright, we
need to look at other schoolsthat are closer within reach.
Or, you know, like you said, alower mid major, or sometimes
dropping a division, like, ifthat financial is a big, is a
(08:37):
big deal for you that, allright, like, what, you know,
that's a need. I can't, I can'ttake away that need. But, like,
all right, what are some, youknow, what are some wants I'm
going to sacrifice, like,location, division, size of
school, things like that. Soit's like, I think, like, having
those needs and wants as you gointo that process, then you then
you can go, like, alright, it'seasier for me to navigate and
and then be your best advocate.
Like, Alright, maybe I need topursue these Lower Mid majors
(09:00):
more so they don't genuinelyinterested. Because, you're
right, they're like, alright, amI gonna waste my time with this
guy that's like, you know,probably just sending out emails
and then gonna end up at thisschool, at this school. So,
Amy Bryant (09:18):
right, yeah. And, you know, not only dropping
divisions, but also consideringother governing bodies too. I
mean, if we're talking about thedivisions in the NCAA, we should
also explore, you know, Naia,there's great financial
opportunities there, NJCAA, oreven the California Community
(09:40):
Association, the prices of thosejunior college programs are
really something worthexploring. And then, you know,
lot of scholarships these days,especially in equivalency
sports, are back loadedscholarships, so you're really
not looking at money,significant money to your junior
or senior year. Anyways, if yougo to a junior college,
(10:01):
community college, first coupleyears, then you become a little
more eligible for significantmoney junior year transferring.
Kyle Gookins (10:08):
It's so true. And I think you said something I
don't think people realize, is,like you said, where, like,
college coaches know thesethings equivalency. So there's
equivalency sports, then there's10 pound sports. So like, talk
more about, like, theequivalency, or like, what that
means for people, like, really,because people don't just think
like a scholarship toscholarship. They don't Right,
Amy Bryant (10:27):
right? Well, so there's only six sports in the
NCAA that are head count sports.
That's it. Football's one ofthem. FBS. Football gets 85 full
head counts, scholarships, fullfull scholarship, full rides for
all those you either you eitherget it or you don't get it
exactly, exactly. And then therest of the equivalency sports
(10:50):
are all women's sports, or,well, there's men's basketball
as well. So sorry, there's men'sbasketball. And then the rest of
them are women's sports, becausethey're trying to with Title
Nine, we have to, you know,remain equitable. So all the
women's sports have to keep upwith those 85
Kyle Gookins (11:06):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I think that's what
you know. I think most you know,like, I deal with a soccer ball
like that. Like, could you get a4x scholarship? Yes. Is it
likely? No, probably not in the,yeah, especially not your first
year. No,I do send, like, back loaded. So
I think some people don'trealize, like, yeah, they may
(11:28):
offer you, like, probably next,if nothing, your freshman year,
but they like, sophomore,junior, senior year, they'll
look at it as, like, a four yearplan. It's like, here's how we
can really help you. So it'slike, you, I think you
mentioned, like, the California,community California community
colleges are incredible,especially in the soccer world,
because I have a close friendthat I played with who coaches
that one of them I'm pretty surethey just passed something where
(11:50):
it's free for Californiaresidents.
Amy Bryant (11:54):
I think you're right, yeah, right, yeah.
Kyle Gookins (11:56):
So that's like, a no brainer, like, oh, I can play
two years for free, and then,like, go somewhere like that
Amy Bryant (12:05):
And then there's automatic transfer in, the
automatic transfer in, and it'sinto the UCs, right, yeah, and
they're so competitive to getinto as a first year. So it's
like, you know, for coachesworking that system at a UC,
they've got, they've got anautomatic feeder system. As
juniors, kids are getting twoyears to really, you know, grow,
(12:27):
develop, become great teammates,all that good stuff, and then
they don't even have to workwith admissions to get them in
to the school. As juniors, it'slike the winner
Kyle Gookins (12:39):
So true. And having, you know, every coach
would look for that into like,okay, that's this is an easier
route to get people in to theschool, like you said to the
automatic computer systemtotally. And I think people
should, you know, look outsideof divisions. That's so
important. I think NAIA is, isalso a really good one to look
at. Yeah, no, I had lunch with acoach at the MLS Academy I was
(13:01):
at. I was like, oh, you know, Iwant to meet this guy in
Chatham. And I asked he's, he'spoor, he's from Ireland. But he
was like, I played NAIA. I lovedit. Had a great time. Like, he's
like, I didn't know. It was kindof like a beautiful naivety of
like, I didn't know what NCAA orNAIA was. I didn't care. Right,
problem here with domesticplayers is they know the
(13:21):
difference. And NAIA is notNCAA. It's not on march back.
It's it's not, you know, inthese big, these big conferences
that are out there, football andbasketball and so, you know,
they will automatically castjudgment to it. But like when
you break it down, you just lookat it, they offer pretty much
the same product. It's just adifferent governing body,
Amy Bryant (13:43):
different governing body, same product. And most of
the schools are smaller schoolsthat offer incredible academic
support for the studentathletes. You know, I liken NIH
Division Two, NCAA Division two.
There's a lot of similaritiesthere in terms of the smaller
schools and sports systems andthe resources, but great options
that people should be exploring.
(14:11):
Kyle, have you had anyexperience with the USCAA at
all?
Kyle Gookins (14:19):
Very small, but a little bit, yes, a little bit.
Have you
Amy Bryant (14:24):
the only experience I've had? There's a very active
coach here in the south where Iactually, I think he just moved
to Division Three, and he's,he's, he's really great at all
of the, you know, acnl soccertournaments around talking to
all the boys, and every singleboy that I've worked with that's
a male soccer player has told methat they've heard from this
(14:46):
coach at the school, you know?
So he's a great recruiter. Andthe guys are like, well, I
don't, you know. I don'tunderstand. What are they
playing? Like? Well, it's theUSDA. What is it the United
States College AthleticAssociation, like a
Kyle Gookins (15:03):
little, yeah, it's different. But I've not, I've
only had conversations with afew coaches. I've never dealt
with any clients and like, helpplayers get there. I mean, I
think it's a great opportunityfor people that want to when you
like, I said, when you break itdown to like, what what they're
offering. It's the same product,yep, well, the different body
Amy Bryant (15:26):
and and when there's the opportunity to win, because
they're competing against onlyschools in the USDA, which isn't
entirely true, but the nationalchampionship, they would be
competing only get schools inthe USDA their regular season
they are competing against NCAA,Nai, you know, NJCAA, any, any,
(15:47):
any school is going to competeagainst whoever they can get
Kyle Gookins (15:51):
whoever they schedule, right? Something
games againstpeople realize it just doesn't
count towards, like, whateverthat national championship,
right going to but like, I mean,I personally played Division Two
in California, and I gotrecruited by both divisions,
division one and Division two.
And when I went through my needsand wants, my needs were like, I
(16:11):
wanted to try to win somethinglike you just mentioned, like
you have the opportunity to win.
I wanted to win. So I I went toa school that had just won a
national championship atDivision Two, they wanted, like,
two years before I got there. SoI was like, well, here's a
chance for me to play in NCAAtournaments where, like, these
other division ones, yeah, like,I could go play Division I could
say, like, yeah, I playedDivision One soccer, but the
chances of me going to the NCAAwere slid. Like, probably
(16:34):
wouldn't have done it, and I maynot have played a lot my
freshman year. And that wasanother, like, need for me so.
And this is a funny story. Iasked it was between one
division one school and thenDivision two. So I ended up
playing. And I went on my visitto the division the vision one
school, and I was chatting tothe coach. It was his first year
at the school, and he was, Ilove the guy. He was such a good
(16:55):
guy. Like, recruited me early. Iwas telling him. I was like, you
know, I'm being recruited bythis other school. What are your
thoughts on? Like, division oneversus Division two? He was
like, in men's soccer, top 10,division two would be the top 20
Division one. So I wouldn'tworry about it. So I was like,
you're basically selling me tothis other school. He's like,
I'm just being honest. Like,he's like, I'm just telling you
the truth. Like, the top schoolsin any division would be the top
(17:17):
schools in Division like, that'sjust how it works. He's like,
the difference is, like, outsideof the top 100 in Division One
is still really competitive,like, they can still beat you
where, like, sometimes inDivision Two, at least in the
men's soccer world, he's like,you can have some games that'll
be blowouts. He's like, you justdon't see as many blowouts in
the division one game. And I waslike, Okay. And then I even
(17:37):
said, like, I'm a littlehesitant, because this is your
first year at this school. Like,are you going to be here for
four years? He's still there inthis job, and he's still in the
same job. I was like, sohesitant to be like, yeah, it's
his first year. Like, yeah, behere. So every time I see him at
an event, he's like, I'm stillin the job. I was like, You are
Man. Like he said, he hugs meevery time he's I can't believe
(17:59):
I missed out on you. I was like,You were too honest. So like,
you told me to the other school.
Amy Bryant (18:05):
So it's like, I always tell people, like, be
open to like you when you reallybreak it down, like you can have
just you can have sometimes moresuccess on the field and in,
like, postseason play at adivision two or Division three.
And like, when you look at like,long lasting, like memories and
(18:25):
experiences, to me, that wasimportant, as opposed to, you
know, what division, or what thefour letters on my sweatshirt
said, yeah, that was importantto me. Like that was, I wanted
to be part of those things well,and, youknow, like, where, I
coach for as long as I did. Iwas there for a long time too,
just like that. Coach couldn't,couldn't, never get away to,
(18:48):
never want to, to be honest. Butyou know, all the players, not
all of them, but, but we, we hadour fair share of success and
won a few national titles. Andthose players can walk away
saying, I want a national title.
You know, it didn't matter thatit was a division three school
national titles, and they'rethat's what they're saying when
(19:09):
they go on their job interviews,and that's what they're talking
about. It was incrediblycompetitive, what what they did,
and how they managed thatstress, and the journey that
they went through and theexperiences that they had, what
they will always remember, andthere is no hashtag, Division
three. I didn't play divisionone in any of those
conversations. It's just, youknow, it was an incredible
(19:33):
experience. We had a post seasonwhere a lot of those Division
One schools, if they make it tothe postseason. They're looking
at, you know, potentially theirfirst game, playing against one
of the big dogs, quote, unquote,and getting blown out of the
water versus, like, you know,the competition, like, like you
said, the top 10 division twoscould play, you know, against
(19:54):
the top or against, you know,any division one. The same thing
for me, coaching tennis DivisionThree tennis, like the top 10
division threes, can competeagainst just about any mid
major, Division one. So
Kyle Gookins (20:09):
yeah, it's so true. And I don't think people
realize that is like the lifelessons you're getting and
experiences experiencingdifferent things at different
divisions. It doesn't stopbecause you went to a division
two or division three or acommunity college. It doesn't
just like, go, well, you're atthis other division. So these
(20:30):
lessons and these experiencesdon't count and aren't going to
help you later on life. I'mlike, they definitely like you,
just different experiences, likeyou have a chance to play the
NCAA Tournament, or, like yousaid, quit a national that's
incredible, like, that's stillreally hard to do. I don't think
people realize that any divisionwinning a national
championships. So I totallyagree with you, and I think, and
(20:54):
I tell some clients, likethey're like, I want to play
division one soccer. Iunderstand. I will help you
achieve that, but you're goingto sacrifice everything else on
your needs. Category, likeacademics are going out the
window, location, size ofschool, like, all right, I'm
willing to sacrifice everythingjust for that division. One
thing, I think sometimes theyhave blinders about it, when
(21:17):
it's like, really, you can havethese amazing experiences and
life lessons and, like, networksof friends and and people. And I
just don't think, you I'm sure,like, at your, you know, I'm
sure, like, the, you know, theschool you're at, the professors
would have known all of thegirls on the tennis team, and I
watched them play. And it'slike, think of that experience
(21:38):
great. Well, you don't get that.
Amy Bryant (21:42):
Think, don't get that. We had the players on the
team invite professors to beguest coaches. They sat on the
sidelines. You know, the ton ofmatches are really long, and
these would sit there for, youknow, at about hour two, I would
look at the professor and say,you can go. I got this. I know
you're coaching, guest coaching,but I've got it, you know,
Kyle Gookins (22:06):
it's so true.
Yeah,
Amy Bryant (22:08):
they loved it. They ate it up. They loved the, you
know, the connection to theprogram and the players loved
that as well. I
Kyle Gookins (22:16):
mean, I did. I went to a smaller d2 and my
senior game, my senior seminarteacher sat next to my mom, and
he didn't know it was my momuntil, like, we got gifts, you
know, in our senior game, and Iran over and, like, gave it to
her, and he's like, Oh, you'reKyle's mom. Like, I had them in
my, you know, my senior seminarclass, like, you just, like, to
me, it was like, that was cool.
Like, he invested in the teamjust as much as I did, and then
(22:37):
I invested in this class. Like,it's such a good relationship to
have, you know that I think isimportant to learn, because then
as you grow and you ask forreferences later on, when you're
applying for jobs, like, youknow, it's really as an athlete,
sometimes athletics define youtoo much. And it's like, well,
all my references are just morepeople I played with that's
(23:00):
like, well, now you have, likean educator that I can provide a
reference of a different aspectof you as a person, not just how
well you perform on a court or afield or in a pool, absolutely,
and they can attest to all thesacrifices that you made and how
you're able to balanceeverything as well with by doing
well in their classroom, And theprofessor knowing how much time
(23:20):
you put in outside of theclassroom,
Amy Bryant (23:29):
thanks for tuning in for today's play. Join us next
time to hear more insights fromanother outstanding coach. Until
then, remember, as you navigatethe ups and downs of your
child's sports journey. You'renot just picking teens, you're
building character, fosteringresilience and creating lifelong
Memories. You
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