March 6, 2025 • 28 mins
Today's Play: Coach Tommy Valentini offers practical strategies for parents to navigate the emotional highs and lows of youth sports. He emphasizes shifting the focus from wins and losses to effort, growth, and core values, fostering healthier conversations with young athletes. Tommy and amy also highlight the importance of collaboration between parents and coaches, with coaches playing a key role in setting clear expectations and engaging parents in supporting the team’s culture. The ultimate goal? Creating a positive, character-building experience that extends far beyond the game.
Today's Coach: Dr. Tommy Valentini is in his 16th year as head coach of the Gustavus Adolphus College men's tennis team where he holds an overall record of 273-104. The Gusties are the third winningest program in the history of Division III tennis with an all-time mark of 1303-532-3 (.710 winning percentage). Gustavus has claimed two NCAA Team Championships (1980, 1982), while also winning six national titles in doubles and four national titles in singles. Tommy has also coached at Emory University and University of Nebraska, written a book chapter titled: Love-Love: A Fresh Start at Finding Value and Virtue in Tennis and presented a Ted Talk on Purposeful Character Building Through Sport. He's also a youth hockey coach and runs a coach education/team culture building education program for the Minnesota River Bulldogs. Last, but not least, Tommy is a professor in the philosophy department at Gustavus Adolphus College where he teaches sport ethics and philosophy.
To learn more about Bryant College Coaching, and download our new e-book, click here or go to www.bryantcollegecoaching.com
Picking Teams: A Playbook for Parents is produced by: Amy Bryant and Sasha Melamud
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amy Bryant (00:07):
Hello parents, and welcome back to picking teams.
Our guest today is Dr TommyValentini, coach and professor
of sport ethics and sportphilosophy at Gustavus Adolphus
University, where he's also thehead coach of the men's tennis
team. Tommy's coaching careeralso includes stints at Emory
(00:28):
University with me, theUniversity of Nebraska and the
Minnesota River Bulldogs, wherehe coaches youth hockey and runs
a coach education team, culturebuilding program. Dr Tommy
Valentini has some greatinsights to share with us today.
Tommy Valentini (00:45):
I'm thrilled.
First of all, thanks for havingme. I mean, we could be having
these conversations, not in apodcast format, could be always
have. So this is so cool to bedoing this, and so inspiring and
such a important role in thatspace that doesn't often get fed
anything gets fed too much, andnot much of it is meaningful or
(01:07):
helpful in any way, shape orform. So thanks for doing what
you're doing always, and beingsuch a supporter and dear friend
of mine and mentor and forhaving me
Amy Bryant (01:19):
Well, Tommy, it's always a pleasure to talk to
you. So to start off, why don'tyou share with us what you think
some challenges that sportsparents face today,
Tommy Valentini (01:30):
I think speaking to the parent side, not
only as a parent, but someonewho's had parents in programs at
various levels, whether it'sbeen, you know, division one or
division three college, all theway down to, you know, eight and
under, hockey and coaching atthose levels in different places
and both genders and all of it.
I think I work with parents inthese hockey associations, or
(01:54):
the parents in our own program.
I think what, what challengesparents a lot is that it's a,
it's a oftentimes, just a recipefor disaster, just by nature of
the way things are. So they lovetheir kids big time. All of a
sudden things get competitive,right? You're trying to make
teams or play well or win gamesor do whatever it is. So you've
(02:17):
got this competitive piece ofthe puzzle and these result
oriented games. And then, notonly those other kids, but I
don't think as parents, we oftenalways understand the level of
attachment that we have to whatour kids do or what they
accomplish or don't accomplish.
We don't do a lot of reflectingon that until we actually get
(02:40):
into the space and stuff startshappening. And so I think you've
got that love, you've got alittle bit of that, that
subconscious, unintentionalattachment, and then, and then
you have just intense emotionalgains as well, right? I mean, in
hockey, these people, nobodywakes up, I tell parents all the
time on a Saturday morning andwalks into a freezing cold arena
(03:01):
and says, I'm going to make afool out of myself. Make this
more difficult for my kid and mykids coach, and make it
uncomfortable and uneducationalfor everybody around me, but we
see it on a week to week basis,right? Because we have no we
have that love, we have thatattachment. It's competitive,
but also, parents don't havemuch training or developed tools
(03:21):
in any way, shape or form andhow to be a good and helpful
Sports Parent, right? They justlove their kids, and they show
up, and then whatever happens,happens, and it oftentimes, you
know, gets, gets way out ofhand. At worst, I mean, at best,
that's maybe neutral or nothelpful, right? And so what we
(03:41):
try to do, both in our collegeprogram and also with the youth
programs that we work with, is,first of all, help our parents
understand and do somereflecting in conversation on
what the hell are we doing herein the first place, right? Like,
what's this all about? Why arewe here? Why are these kids
here? And very rarely, when theywhen they actually start playing
(04:03):
with that reasoning a little bitand verbalizing it and sharing
it, do they ever wind up atlike, you know, I want the next,
you know, center on the firstline and running the power play
for the New York Rangers, right?
We don't, they don't get there,right? I'm not trying to get my
kid to be top 50 on the ATP orWTA Tour. It's they have fun,
(04:24):
and they're with their friends,and they grow and they learn,
and it's teamwork, and it'sdiscipline, and it's time
management. It's whatever wecould talk all day about what
they think they want to get outof it, right? But it's not the
wild, crazy stuff, right? Sothen, then the next thing you
know, sort of philosophicallyand from the more academic side
that I work on is telling likethe research is pretty
conclusive. If you don't dothose things intentionally, it's
(04:47):
not very likely that you'regoing to get them so we've got
to get you going parent on apath that has you operating and
showing up and modeling in thesame direction as what you want
your kids to learn and what youwant to get out of this
experience. So how do weactually do that? Well, the
first is model the behaviorsthat you're hoping for in your
(05:09):
in your kids, right? The numberone thing they're going to do
and how they're going to learnis what they see you do in these
situations, if you rip a coach,if you make excuses, if you go
after a 15 year old rep on aSunday morning at eight o'clock
was making $4 an hour becausethey missed an outside by, you
know, six tenths of a Buchamillimeter, right? That's what
(05:32):
you're going to give the kidspermission to do, right? If we
want this to be a part of theireducation, if we want this to be
a part of their characterdevelopment and their moral
functioning. If we want it to befun, if we want it to be a place
where they learn values and theybuild relationships right, and
they grow as people, then we'vegot to be doing things as
parents to do that. And I thinkwhat handicaps that a lot of
(05:54):
times, is parents don't feellike they have much agency from
the coaches or the associationor that it's drop them off, pay
the bills, you know, if the kidhas a problem, send them to me,
right? And that's it, you know.
And so parents get frustratedbecause they've got the love and
the attachments. They think theyknow what they want, but then
they don't feel like they have alot of agency. And so it all
comes out, you know, in the carride home, right? And that's
(06:16):
about it. And so we try to tellparents, we need you to model.
We need you on our team. You'rewelcome. You're a part of the
team, you're a part of theassociation, you're a part of
this process. We don't need youto tell them to bend their knees
and follow through. We don'tneed you to tell them where to
stand on the power play or whereto hit their serves or their
volleys right? We need you tofocus as little as possible on
(06:37):
the results and help steer theconversation the direction of
what is the kid getting out ofit? Are they living out values
that are that are related tothings that are within our
control? Are they being greatteammates? Are they giving their
best? Are they choosing to bepositive? Are they demonstrating
(06:57):
respect and sportsmanship? Andif not, what's getting in the
way of that, rather than thefirst question that everybody
asks when your kid gets in thecar is, did you win, and how
many goals did you score? And,you know, so on and so forth.
And so I think just trying tohelp parents, big picture, have
a really clear sense of whatthey want to get out of this,
and what their kids want to getout of this. And then, you know,
(07:19):
day to day operations give themsome agency and some tools and
some clarity with what to do togo in that direction that they
know we all want the bigpicture. Because if you're not
clear about that direction,you're not doing things to get
there. That's when we see allthe garbage and the challenges
that we see with parents atevery level.
Amy Bryant (07:43):
That's right, that's so true. Think that once they
identify the path that they wantto see their child go down, that
path being a path towardshealth, happiness. You know, all
of these great values that sportprovides to a child. Yes,
(08:08):
exactly so, what would be thesetools? What would be the tools
that can help them to get tothat, how to support my child,
Tommy Valentini (08:18):
I think, continuing to reflect on what
you're doing there in the firstplace. I just think that
continual reflection is soimportant from there, it varies
a little bit based on theenvironment and how much choice
people have over the environmentthat the kid goes into. I think
that's a huge tool for parents.
Is is trying to do some homeworkon the front end as much as they
(08:39):
can, and try to get a sense ofdoes what's going on in this in
this outfit, in thisorganization, does it match, or
does it have the potential tomatch with the values that are
most important to us? And then Iwould say from there if, if, if,
what you see is that the valuethat's most important to any
operation, whether it's a UA,you know, hockey team or soccer
(09:01):
club, or whatever it is, or it'sa college tennis program or
anything in between. If thenumber one thing that they're
setting out to do is win, Iwould say, run in the other
direction, that would be anotherimportant tool, because so much
of it relies on what's withinour control and what's outside
of our control, and helpingparents really dig deep and get
(09:23):
a firm grasp of where whatthey're in, which of those
categories does what they'relooking for live and be really
clear about that, and then justput your entire focus on the
things In terms of how youparent your kid in sport, on the
things that are within theircontrol. And I think a lot of
(09:44):
times parents will hear that andthink, Wow, this coach is just
softer. This coach, it's justall we're going to give
everybody a medal. And I don'twant my kid to be a part of that
type of atmosphere, becausethey're never going to learn
anything, and they're nevergoing to be tough enough, and
they're never going to blah,blah, blah, and I think that's
(10:04):
just a grave misunderstandingthat then seeps into a lot of
missed opportunities forparents, just because you have a
dedicated focus on things likeyour best effort and choosing to
have a positive attitude andalways being respectful and
having great sportsmanship nomatter what the circumstances,
(10:26):
those things aren't automatic.
They don't come easily. They'renot learned easily and they're
not acted on easily in the youthor scholastic sports space. They
take a lot of dedication tolearn and to live out, and it's
a constant journey, and it's aconstant process, and you don't
(10:49):
always meet the standard. Ithink, you know, I've been on
teams as a player. I'vecertainly been a part of teams
as a coach. I had the goodfortune of being on teams with
with you, and working with youwhere there were plenty of times
where we met the objectiveresults, and in terms of the
objective, uncontrollableresult, like winning and losing,
(11:10):
we were we were successful. Andin some of those times, we
didn't live out the values thatwere most important to us. And
it was very clear that weweren't successful at the
highest standard. And I thinkhaving a program or coaches or
leaders and captains and howeverthe environment has shaped other
parents, stakeholders andadministrators that understand
(11:30):
that is so crucial for parents,and then I think that's really
what helps parents get a realsense of what their definition
of success looks like forthemselves and for their kids,
and then really moving into thatdirection, I think that's what
gives parents the most agency,but that also is the is the
(11:51):
space where there's the room formost transferability, right?
Like, if you can learn how togive your best and be positive
and be respectful and beresilient and care about others
and be a part of a group. If youcan learn those things that are
controllable in the context ofplaying whatever dumb game we're
(12:11):
playing, which is just reallyultimately, a bunch of made up
obstacles, right? If you canlearn and practice those things
in those contexts. Well, thenmaybe when you really need to be
able to do those things and livethem out in life, when it
matters, you're you're trainingfor that, and that's ultimately
what, what, what, hopefully, thebest of sport can do for us in
(12:34):
terms of being a part of oureducation. If that can happen,
then we're doing somethingright, winning and losing. I
mean, you've won a ton. You wonmore than anybody that that I
know, right? I mean, does thatmake your life that much
different right now, as a playeror as a coach? No. I mean, it's
what you've done in the process,and you've learned in the
(12:55):
process and who you've become inthe process, for sure, right?
The winning and the losing, thatdoesn't change much at all?
Amy Bryant (13:01):
Yeah, yeah. It's, it's so true. I mean, one of the
things when I retired fromcoaching and to and still, now,
a couple years later, the numberone question I get is, do you
miss it? And I'm like, do I do Imiss? What do I miss? What? So
I'll tell you what I miss. Imiss the relationships. I miss
(13:23):
being able to see my playersevery day. I miss being able to
mold them from the time thatthey get on campus till the time
that they need into positive,productive adults that have
goals, that have confidence andare ready to don't be
independent members of societyand successful. And I mean,
(13:46):
gosh, some of the things that myplayers have gone on to do, or
it's unbelievable. It'sunbelievable how successful they
are. And I feel like I have, youknow, a little bit of hand. Do I
miss the roller coaster that isassociated with playing in the
national championship or makingit to the postseason or playing
(14:06):
against a rival, or having toplay back to back matches
against top 10 opponents. No, Idon't miss any about that's not
everything that coaching isabout. To me. It's not what
sport is about. Sports abouteverything that happens in
between
Tommy Valentini (14:22):
Yeah, well, and I think, right, I think that as
you talk about what, whatparents can do and how they can
see this thing, I think that allof the challenges that you just
described, and stuff that youdon't miss as much, those things
are all the necessary parts ofit, because that creates the
space where the things that youreally miss happen, right? And
(14:45):
so you need that. You need thechallenges. You need the
difficulty. You need these areaswhere these super high achieving
kids don't get it perfect anddon't get it right all the time,
so you have room for thatgrowth, right? You need all that
stuff. I think where parents getstruggle is they don't see those
(15:06):
spaces in those times as thecontext or the space in which
the real work happens, right thepart of the equation that you
need. But it's not the mostimportant part. They see it as
the most important part we haveto prove. We have to prove how
good our kid is. Our kid has toprove how good they are. We've
got this opponent. We've got tobe better than them, so that we
(15:27):
prove to everybody, we proveourselves. I think there's so
much proving, and there's somuch should in, and there's so
much needing when it comes toall these things that are
outside of our control, ratherthan an appreciation for the
challenges and the twists andthe turns that those situations
put us in, so that we can do thereal work that you just that you
(15:51):
just described because, becauseI think there's really the
meaningful part about sport isnot that it teaches automatic
lessons, because it doesn't youlearn what you get taught. I
mean, we could do hours of this,and I could tell you the stuff
that I was a part of and saw anddid an experience playing hockey
in the 90s in Minnesota, supercompetitively, right? Like that.
What I was taking out of thatwas not the stuff my parents
(16:13):
hoped 13 year old me was gettingwhen they dropped me off at the
rink, right? So you don't justthrow the balls or the trucks or
the or whatever out there andlet them play, and it just
happens, right? You have to gettaught, but it's also we're not
learning these things going on.
So, right? Like it's not justthat, either. It's the
environment that I think can bethis really meaningful, magical
(16:35):
context, where you get in thesesituations and you face these
obstacles and these challenges,and it's this really series of
golden opportunities to learnand live out these values, if we
choose to see it that way, if wechoose to see it as we gotta
prove and we've invested thismuch money in these lessons, and
so, oh my gosh, this better payoff with a scholarship, or it
(16:56):
Better pay off with anotherthing that's result based.
That's when it gets reallydangerous. And I think that's
for us as coaches too. That'swhen you start to feel like,
what are, what are we doinghere? I don't, I don't love this
right? Because now I've got somelevel of attachment to how this
game or this this match or thisseason comes out right, rather
(17:16):
than it being, you know what?
How can this group and thesekids learn and grow and live out
these values no matter how thisthing turns out? That's right.
So and I think for coaches thatwe're constantly having to come
back to that over and overagain, because you're always
(17:37):
dealing with those two areas,right, the learning and the
growing and the developing andthe relationships and at the
same time, like the object ofthe game is to win, and so
you're always trying to, youknow, balance those things. I
think if we always keep themlike this right, with the
important stuff more important,but holding intention, that the
(17:58):
other stuff is there, and that'salso what we're trying to do. I
think that's what you and thebest coaches get right.
Transferring that to parents isis a whole nother challenge, but
the more we can cut them in andlet them in on the process. And
this is what we're doing, andthis is why we're doing it, and
this is how we do it, and weneed you to help us do it. When
you get in the car, or you geton the road afterwards, or you
(18:21):
come to a college tennis match,and you go out to the Cheesecake
Factory afterwards, right? Andyou're having that conversation.
Have it under the umbrella thatwe're we're building here. Have
it in line with our culture,right? As opposed to, because
you believe in it, you've chosenit, right and right, as opposed
to, well, now we get outside thecircle of the team right for us,
(18:45):
it's the ride home from the rinkup here, right? It's what
happens after and outside thatenvironment. And then it's as
soon as mom or dad do a 180 fromthe from culture there, if the
culture's value is based right,as soon as moms or dad do a 180
we just take like, nine stepsbackwards.
Amy Bryant (19:01):
That's right, that's right. That's so true. I love
that you mentioned the car ridehome. The car ride home is that
one space that I'm always sayingto parents, there's only five
words that you should say. Haveyou seen that TED talk?
Tommy Valentini (19:16):
I love I don't know. I hope it's I love
watching you play.
Amy Bryant (19:19):
Yeah, I love watching you play. Like, I mean,
that's it. That's it. WhenBillie Jean King dressed the
Emory athletes a few years ago,she shared with the athletes,
and I heard a reiterate this onthe podcast recently, but she
shared that when she came homefrom tennis, her parents never
asked, never once the questionthey they asked was, did you
(19:41):
have fun? Or what do you wantfor dinner? You know, that's it.
And so I think that's one of thesimplest tools that parents can
can start with. I love that youmentioned the reflection piece.
I mean, I think it's reallyimportant to continue to check
in with yourself, check in withyour partner, check in with
(20:02):
anyone else that is involved inyour child's sports engagement,
and check in with them. Makesure you're all on the same page
and about what their familyvalues are, and how are we
expressing that to our child? Ithink something else that would
be helpful for parents too is ifthey had an understanding of
(20:22):
what the team expectations are.
And a lot of times, coachesdon't necessarily formalize what
those expectations are. Ofcourse, you got to be on time.
Of course, you got to show upfor games, you know, of course.
But like, it's not always soobvious, right? And, and, and
there's a lot of gray area forfamilies. You know, well, you
(20:46):
have a vacation plan. Does mychild have to be there for this,
this match like, what? What doesthat mean? What are the
repercussions if he doesn't? Andall of that can be clearly
articulated in some teamexpectations, even if they're
simple and concise expectations,you can still refer back to
them. One of the things that Ialways impress on coaches is,
(21:08):
let's list out what are yourexpectations. Let's hang it from
the locker room on the lockers.
Let's make sure that the studentathletes know what the
expectations are. Let's makesure the parents know what the
expectations are, becauseotherwise, parents see a
snapshot of what's happening, orthey get a Bryant to call home,
or a kid gets in the car andthey've got tears on their face
(21:30):
and Well, what happened? They ifthey can, then go back to well,
here are the team expectations,and it looks like you're not
meeting them. If they can get onboard with what's going on and
what makes this team successful,and all of that stuff that's not
related to the winning, right?
It's not related to the outcome.
It's related to the process. Ifthey can get on board with what
(21:50):
that entails, then we can reallymake an impact.
Tommy Valentini (21:54):
Yeah, I think we want parents in on on our
culture, right? That that ourvalues in our in our process
come first, and that's thehighest standard of success,
right? And so, like, we can besuccessful and lose, and we can
be unsuccessful and win, right?
And we want parents to get thatunderstanding right, and then
that hopefully impacts how thatcar ride home goes, right. So,
(22:15):
so I love watching you play.
That's the first thing out oftheir mouth. We try to also get
them to also get them to askquestions that have to do with
their effort and their attitudeand their respect, before the
questions are about the results,right? And then we try to get
them to react as unemotionallyas they can when it comes to
(22:35):
results, right? Because a lot oftimes I think, well, if we're
not, as a parent, going to loseour mind when, when they lose,
then we're doing great. But thenthey get in the car and we lose
our minds in a positive way whenthey win, right, which sends the
same exact message, right, thatthe result is the most important
thing and the thing that mattersmost. So it's in what we say and
what we don't say. But all ofthat is so much easier to do as
(22:57):
parents and stakeholders if wehave a clear sense of the
philosophy and the behaviorsthat extend from that
philosophy, if we know thatgoing in, right? I mean, asking
parents to get on board withthat without having them get a
clear understanding ofphilosophically what we're doing
in the first place, that's likeasking you to train all year and
(23:18):
then go play the nationalchampionship left handed, right?
I mean, it makes no sense wewouldn't do that to our to our
athletes, right? So we can'texpect that we can do that to
our other stakeholders as well.
And so that's, I think, thatconversation and training piece
is so, so important ineverything from the philosophy
to how we're going to approachsuccess to what our values are
(23:38):
and how we want to live themout. And that extends to, I
mean, I just, you know, both interms of my coaching, but also
in terms of my academic work.
It's all centered aroundbuilding a culture that teaches
values and creates the space tobe great at the thing you're
doing, both at the same time.
And I think those expectationsare so important to be clear
(24:00):
about, but also to be tied tothe culture so that people stop
this low level behavior of beingaccountable to just the person
in charge, right? Like you knowthis, like you, when you have
great teams, you don't want yourplayers to be accountable to
whatever Coach B says. That'snot how it works. That might get
(24:22):
us, that might get beyondfreshmen, you know, our first
year going for a couple weeks,right? But after that, it's they
have to be accountable to eachother, and they have to be
accountable to the culture,because this is ours, right? And
we don't often do that, mostlybecause of all the pay for play
stuff and the youth sportsspace, and hey, if somebody
doesn't like it, they'll just goto club x, or they'll go y,
(24:43):
right? Or they'll leave. Sothere's less investment in the
in the group, right? And in thegroup culture. And so I think
that's where we lose a lot ofthis. But ultimately, if we're
going to get it done, that's,that's the key, I think, because
of the way it gets, that youjust, you don't like the way
(25:04):
it's going, so you leave, right?
It's such a I mean, granted,he's not dissimilar to what's
going on in college sports rightnow, right where? Where this
line is so blurred between.
Don't want people staying insituations that are toxic. But
also we just allow people now topush the eject button so early
that we don't create the theenvironment for any of the
(25:28):
things that we're trying toteach to actually develop. So I
don't want to make it sound likeit's absolute, right, that you
got to stay in the first placeyou go to, and it's got to be
that way forever, especially inthe youth sports space. But, you
know, I think people, like Isaid, people hit that eject
button so quickly that theydon't see those expectations
(25:50):
that you talked about that areso crucial on time. What can we
miss? What, you know, just thebasic stuff. They don't see that
as part of the culture. Theyjust see that as being
accountable to the person who'sever in charge. And that's,
that's, there's no thatreasoning doesn't stick for
doing it well and doing iteffectively and believing right?
The reasoning that sticks fordoing it well and doing
(26:12):
effectively and believing in itis, this is who we are, right?
Like, if I don't go to practicesix days in a row, then I want
to play on the seventh day,right? Well, that could be I
pissed the coach off, but whatreally makes that meaningful is,
listen, one of our core valuesis that we give our best effort,
right? And now this is what wedo, and I this is not a way for
(26:33):
me to give my best effort,right? One of our core
principles is we operate onrespect right now. I've not
respected my teammates, I've notrespected my coaches. I've not
respected the process that we'regoing through, right and now I'm
just going to show up and play.
That's a whole lot differentthan I can I can get over, you
(26:54):
know, Coach X or coach y being alittle frustrated, right?
Especially if they're, you know,not a professional coach, right?
That they have a day job, andthen they're showing up to coach
this thing later on, right? Andwhatever it's but, but if it's,
if it's I'm not my actions arenot in line with these
expectations, that are not inline with our culture and who we
are, then we've got then we'vegot challenges, and I think we
(27:17):
can do a better job, especiallyin the youth sports space,
college and we get older, andit's a little more baked into
the pie there, if you're runningyour college program, well, I
think, but in the youth sportsspace, we've got to make it
about our culture, right? Andthen I think there's more grace
involved there as well, right?
Like our culture is about thesevalues. You're going on a family
vacation that was planned a yearago, and now you all of a sudden
(27:40):
made this team as the lastperson on the quadruple a team,
right? If this is about ourculture, then you're probably
going on that trip. If this isabout I'm going to piss off
Coach Jones, then we're in sometough water there.
Amy Bryant (27:54):
Yeah, interesting, fascinating. I love, I love how
you frame that with beingaccountable to the team, that's
brilliant. Unfortunately, that'sall we have time for today. But
we have another great episodewith Tommy plan to drop soon,
and he'll share some moreinsights about team values,
culture and lots of other Greatstuff. You really won't want to
(28:16):
miss it.
Hello parents, and welcome back to picking teams.
Our guest today is Dr TommyValentini, coach and professor
of sport ethics and sportphilosophy at Gustavus Adolphus
University, where he's also thehead coach of the men's tennis
team. Tommy's coaching careeralso includes stints at Emory
(00:28):
University with me, theUniversity of Nebraska and the
Minnesota River Bulldogs, wherehe coaches youth hockey and runs
a coach education team, culturebuilding program. Dr Tommy
Valentini has some greatinsights to share with us today.
Tommy Valentini (00:45):
I'm thrilled.
First of all, thanks for havingme. I mean, we could be having
these conversations, not in apodcast format, could be always
have. So this is so cool to bedoing this, and so inspiring and
such a important role in thatspace that doesn't often get fed
anything gets fed too much, andnot much of it is meaningful or
(01:07):
helpful in any way, shape orform. So thanks for doing what
you're doing always, and beingsuch a supporter and dear friend
of mine and mentor and forhaving me
Amy Bryant (01:19):
Well, Tommy, it's always a pleasure to talk to
you. So to start off, why don'tyou share with us what you think
some challenges that sportsparents face today,
Tommy Valentini (01:30):
I think speaking to the parent side, not
only as a parent, but someonewho's had parents in programs at
various levels, whether it'sbeen, you know, division one or
division three college, all theway down to, you know, eight and
under, hockey and coaching atthose levels in different places
and both genders and all of it.
I think I work with parents inthese hockey associations, or
(01:54):
the parents in our own program.
I think what, what challengesparents a lot is that it's a,
it's a oftentimes, just a recipefor disaster, just by nature of
the way things are. So they lovetheir kids big time. All of a
sudden things get competitive,right? You're trying to make
teams or play well or win gamesor do whatever it is. So you've
(02:17):
got this competitive piece ofthe puzzle and these result
oriented games. And then, notonly those other kids, but I
don't think as parents, we oftenalways understand the level of
attachment that we have to whatour kids do or what they
accomplish or don't accomplish.
We don't do a lot of reflectingon that until we actually get
(02:40):
into the space and stuff startshappening. And so I think you've
got that love, you've got alittle bit of that, that
subconscious, unintentionalattachment, and then, and then
you have just intense emotionalgains as well, right? I mean, in
hockey, these people, nobodywakes up, I tell parents all the
time on a Saturday morning andwalks into a freezing cold arena
(03:01):
and says, I'm going to make afool out of myself. Make this
more difficult for my kid and mykids coach, and make it
uncomfortable and uneducationalfor everybody around me, but we
see it on a week to week basis,right? Because we have no we
have that love, we have thatattachment. It's competitive,
but also, parents don't havemuch training or developed tools
(03:21):
in any way, shape or form andhow to be a good and helpful
Sports Parent, right? They justlove their kids, and they show
up, and then whatever happens,happens, and it oftentimes, you
know, gets, gets way out ofhand. At worst, I mean, at best,
that's maybe neutral or nothelpful, right? And so what we
(03:41):
try to do, both in our collegeprogram and also with the youth
programs that we work with, is,first of all, help our parents
understand and do somereflecting in conversation on
what the hell are we doing herein the first place, right? Like,
what's this all about? Why arewe here? Why are these kids
here? And very rarely, when theywhen they actually start playing
(04:03):
with that reasoning a little bitand verbalizing it and sharing
it, do they ever wind up atlike, you know, I want the next,
you know, center on the firstline and running the power play
for the New York Rangers, right?
We don't, they don't get there,right? I'm not trying to get my
kid to be top 50 on the ATP orWTA Tour. It's they have fun,
(04:24):
and they're with their friends,and they grow and they learn,
and it's teamwork, and it'sdiscipline, and it's time
management. It's whatever wecould talk all day about what
they think they want to get outof it, right? But it's not the
wild, crazy stuff, right? Sothen, then the next thing you
know, sort of philosophicallyand from the more academic side
that I work on is telling likethe research is pretty
conclusive. If you don't dothose things intentionally, it's
(04:47):
not very likely that you'regoing to get them so we've got
to get you going parent on apath that has you operating and
showing up and modeling in thesame direction as what you want
your kids to learn and what youwant to get out of this
experience. So how do weactually do that? Well, the
first is model the behaviorsthat you're hoping for in your
(05:09):
in your kids, right? The numberone thing they're going to do
and how they're going to learnis what they see you do in these
situations, if you rip a coach,if you make excuses, if you go
after a 15 year old rep on aSunday morning at eight o'clock
was making $4 an hour becausethey missed an outside by, you
know, six tenths of a Buchamillimeter, right? That's what
(05:32):
you're going to give the kidspermission to do, right? If we
want this to be a part of theireducation, if we want this to be
a part of their characterdevelopment and their moral
functioning. If we want it to befun, if we want it to be a place
where they learn values and theybuild relationships right, and
they grow as people, then we'vegot to be doing things as
parents to do that. And I thinkwhat handicaps that a lot of
(05:54):
times, is parents don't feellike they have much agency from
the coaches or the associationor that it's drop them off, pay
the bills, you know, if the kidhas a problem, send them to me,
right? And that's it, you know.
And so parents get frustratedbecause they've got the love and
the attachments. They think theyknow what they want, but then
they don't feel like they have alot of agency. And so it all
comes out, you know, in the carride home, right? And that's
(06:16):
about it. And so we try to tellparents, we need you to model.
We need you on our team. You'rewelcome. You're a part of the
team, you're a part of theassociation, you're a part of
this process. We don't need youto tell them to bend their knees
and follow through. We don'tneed you to tell them where to
stand on the power play or whereto hit their serves or their
volleys right? We need you tofocus as little as possible on
(06:37):
the results and help steer theconversation the direction of
what is the kid getting out ofit? Are they living out values
that are that are related tothings that are within our
control? Are they being greatteammates? Are they giving their
best? Are they choosing to bepositive? Are they demonstrating
(06:57):
respect and sportsmanship? Andif not, what's getting in the
way of that, rather than thefirst question that everybody
asks when your kid gets in thecar is, did you win, and how
many goals did you score? And,you know, so on and so forth.
And so I think just trying tohelp parents, big picture, have
a really clear sense of whatthey want to get out of this,
and what their kids want to getout of this. And then, you know,
(07:19):
day to day operations give themsome agency and some tools and
some clarity with what to do togo in that direction that they
know we all want the bigpicture. Because if you're not
clear about that direction,you're not doing things to get
there. That's when we see allthe garbage and the challenges
that we see with parents atevery level.
Amy Bryant (07:43):
That's right, that's so true. Think that once they
identify the path that they wantto see their child go down, that
path being a path towardshealth, happiness. You know, all
of these great values that sportprovides to a child. Yes,
(08:08):
exactly so, what would be thesetools? What would be the tools
that can help them to get tothat, how to support my child,
Tommy Valentini (08:18):
I think, continuing to reflect on what
you're doing there in the firstplace. I just think that
continual reflection is soimportant from there, it varies
a little bit based on theenvironment and how much choice
people have over the environmentthat the kid goes into. I think
that's a huge tool for parents.
Is is trying to do some homeworkon the front end as much as they
(08:39):
can, and try to get a sense ofdoes what's going on in this in
this outfit, in thisorganization, does it match, or
does it have the potential tomatch with the values that are
most important to us? And then Iwould say from there if, if, if,
what you see is that the valuethat's most important to any
operation, whether it's a UA,you know, hockey team or soccer
(09:01):
club, or whatever it is, or it'sa college tennis program or
anything in between. If thenumber one thing that they're
setting out to do is win, Iwould say, run in the other
direction, that would be anotherimportant tool, because so much
of it relies on what's withinour control and what's outside
of our control, and helpingparents really dig deep and get
(09:23):
a firm grasp of where whatthey're in, which of those
categories does what they'relooking for live and be really
clear about that, and then justput your entire focus on the
things In terms of how youparent your kid in sport, on the
things that are within theircontrol. And I think a lot of
(09:44):
times parents will hear that andthink, Wow, this coach is just
softer. This coach, it's justall we're going to give
everybody a medal. And I don'twant my kid to be a part of that
type of atmosphere, becausethey're never going to learn
anything, and they're nevergoing to be tough enough, and
they're never going to blah,blah, blah, and I think that's
(10:04):
just a grave misunderstandingthat then seeps into a lot of
missed opportunities forparents, just because you have a
dedicated focus on things likeyour best effort and choosing to
have a positive attitude andalways being respectful and
having great sportsmanship nomatter what the circumstances,
(10:26):
those things aren't automatic.
They don't come easily. They'renot learned easily and they're
not acted on easily in the youthor scholastic sports space. They
take a lot of dedication tolearn and to live out, and it's
a constant journey, and it's aconstant process, and you don't
(10:49):
always meet the standard. Ithink, you know, I've been on
teams as a player. I'vecertainly been a part of teams
as a coach. I had the goodfortune of being on teams with
with you, and working with youwhere there were plenty of times
where we met the objectiveresults, and in terms of the
objective, uncontrollableresult, like winning and losing,
(11:10):
we were we were successful. Andin some of those times, we
didn't live out the values thatwere most important to us. And
it was very clear that weweren't successful at the
highest standard. And I thinkhaving a program or coaches or
leaders and captains and howeverthe environment has shaped other
parents, stakeholders andadministrators that understand
(11:30):
that is so crucial for parents,and then I think that's really
what helps parents get a realsense of what their definition
of success looks like forthemselves and for their kids,
and then really moving into thatdirection, I think that's what
gives parents the most agency,but that also is the is the
(11:51):
space where there's the room formost transferability, right?
Like, if you can learn how togive your best and be positive
and be respectful and beresilient and care about others
and be a part of a group. If youcan learn those things that are
controllable in the context ofplaying whatever dumb game we're
(12:11):
playing, which is just reallyultimately, a bunch of made up
obstacles, right? If you canlearn and practice those things
in those contexts. Well, thenmaybe when you really need to be
able to do those things and livethem out in life, when it
matters, you're you're trainingfor that, and that's ultimately
what, what, what, hopefully, thebest of sport can do for us in
(12:34):
terms of being a part of oureducation. If that can happen,
then we're doing somethingright, winning and losing. I
mean, you've won a ton. You wonmore than anybody that that I
know, right? I mean, does thatmake your life that much
different right now, as a playeror as a coach? No. I mean, it's
what you've done in the process,and you've learned in the
(12:55):
process and who you've become inthe process, for sure, right?
The winning and the losing, thatdoesn't change much at all?
Amy Bryant (13:01):
Yeah, yeah. It's, it's so true. I mean, one of the
things when I retired fromcoaching and to and still, now,
a couple years later, the numberone question I get is, do you
miss it? And I'm like, do I do Imiss? What do I miss? What? So
I'll tell you what I miss. Imiss the relationships. I miss
(13:23):
being able to see my playersevery day. I miss being able to
mold them from the time thatthey get on campus till the time
that they need into positive,productive adults that have
goals, that have confidence andare ready to don't be
independent members of societyand successful. And I mean,
(13:46):
gosh, some of the things that myplayers have gone on to do, or
it's unbelievable. It'sunbelievable how successful they
are. And I feel like I have, youknow, a little bit of hand. Do I
miss the roller coaster that isassociated with playing in the
national championship or makingit to the postseason or playing
(14:06):
against a rival, or having toplay back to back matches
against top 10 opponents. No, Idon't miss any about that's not
everything that coaching isabout. To me. It's not what
sport is about. Sports abouteverything that happens in
between
Tommy Valentini (14:22):
Yeah, well, and I think, right, I think that as
you talk about what, whatparents can do and how they can
see this thing, I think that allof the challenges that you just
described, and stuff that youdon't miss as much, those things
are all the necessary parts ofit, because that creates the
space where the things that youreally miss happen, right? And
(14:45):
so you need that. You need thechallenges. You need the
difficulty. You need these areaswhere these super high achieving
kids don't get it perfect anddon't get it right all the time,
so you have room for thatgrowth, right? You need all that
stuff. I think where parents getstruggle is they don't see those
(15:06):
spaces in those times as thecontext or the space in which
the real work happens, right thepart of the equation that you
need. But it's not the mostimportant part. They see it as
the most important part we haveto prove. We have to prove how
good our kid is. Our kid has toprove how good they are. We've
got this opponent. We've got tobe better than them, so that we
(15:27):
prove to everybody, we proveourselves. I think there's so
much proving, and there's somuch should in, and there's so
much needing when it comes toall these things that are
outside of our control, ratherthan an appreciation for the
challenges and the twists andthe turns that those situations
put us in, so that we can do thereal work that you just that you
(15:51):
just described because, becauseI think there's really the
meaningful part about sport isnot that it teaches automatic
lessons, because it doesn't youlearn what you get taught. I
mean, we could do hours of this,and I could tell you the stuff
that I was a part of and saw anddid an experience playing hockey
in the 90s in Minnesota, supercompetitively, right? Like that.
What I was taking out of thatwas not the stuff my parents
(16:13):
hoped 13 year old me was gettingwhen they dropped me off at the
rink, right? So you don't justthrow the balls or the trucks or
the or whatever out there andlet them play, and it just
happens, right? You have to gettaught, but it's also we're not
learning these things going on.
So, right? Like it's not justthat, either. It's the
environment that I think can bethis really meaningful, magical
(16:35):
context, where you get in thesesituations and you face these
obstacles and these challenges,and it's this really series of
golden opportunities to learnand live out these values, if we
choose to see it that way, if wechoose to see it as we gotta
prove and we've invested thismuch money in these lessons, and
so, oh my gosh, this better payoff with a scholarship, or it
(16:56):
Better pay off with anotherthing that's result based.
That's when it gets reallydangerous. And I think that's
for us as coaches too. That'swhen you start to feel like,
what are, what are we doinghere? I don't, I don't love this
right? Because now I've got somelevel of attachment to how this
game or this this match or thisseason comes out right, rather
(17:16):
than it being, you know what?
How can this group and thesekids learn and grow and live out
these values no matter how thisthing turns out? That's right.
So and I think for coaches thatwe're constantly having to come
back to that over and overagain, because you're always
(17:37):
dealing with those two areas,right, the learning and the
growing and the developing andthe relationships and at the
same time, like the object ofthe game is to win, and so
you're always trying to, youknow, balance those things. I
think if we always keep themlike this right, with the
important stuff more important,but holding intention, that the
(17:58):
other stuff is there, and that'salso what we're trying to do. I
think that's what you and thebest coaches get right.
Transferring that to parents isis a whole nother challenge, but
the more we can cut them in andlet them in on the process. And
this is what we're doing, andthis is why we're doing it, and
this is how we do it, and weneed you to help us do it. When
you get in the car, or you geton the road afterwards, or you
(18:21):
come to a college tennis match,and you go out to the Cheesecake
Factory afterwards, right? Andyou're having that conversation.
Have it under the umbrella thatwe're we're building here. Have
it in line with our culture,right? As opposed to, because
you believe in it, you've chosenit, right and right, as opposed
to, well, now we get outside thecircle of the team right for us,
(18:45):
it's the ride home from the rinkup here, right? It's what
happens after and outside thatenvironment. And then it's as
soon as mom or dad do a 180 fromthe from culture there, if the
culture's value is based right,as soon as moms or dad do a 180
we just take like, nine stepsbackwards.
Amy Bryant (19:01):
That's right, that's right. That's so true. I love
that you mentioned the car ridehome. The car ride home is that
one space that I'm always sayingto parents, there's only five
words that you should say. Haveyou seen that TED talk?
Tommy Valentini (19:16):
I love I don't know. I hope it's I love
watching you play.
Amy Bryant (19:19):
Yeah, I love watching you play. Like, I mean,
that's it. That's it. WhenBillie Jean King dressed the
Emory athletes a few years ago,she shared with the athletes,
and I heard a reiterate this onthe podcast recently, but she
shared that when she came homefrom tennis, her parents never
asked, never once the questionthey they asked was, did you
(19:41):
have fun? Or what do you wantfor dinner? You know, that's it.
And so I think that's one of thesimplest tools that parents can
can start with. I love that youmentioned the reflection piece.
I mean, I think it's reallyimportant to continue to check
in with yourself, check in withyour partner, check in with
(20:02):
anyone else that is involved inyour child's sports engagement,
and check in with them. Makesure you're all on the same page
and about what their familyvalues are, and how are we
expressing that to our child? Ithink something else that would
be helpful for parents too is ifthey had an understanding of
(20:22):
what the team expectations are.
And a lot of times, coachesdon't necessarily formalize what
those expectations are. Ofcourse, you got to be on time.
Of course, you got to show upfor games, you know, of course.
But like, it's not always soobvious, right? And, and, and
there's a lot of gray area forfamilies. You know, well, you
(20:46):
have a vacation plan. Does mychild have to be there for this,
this match like, what? What doesthat mean? What are the
repercussions if he doesn't? Andall of that can be clearly
articulated in some teamexpectations, even if they're
simple and concise expectations,you can still refer back to
them. One of the things that Ialways impress on coaches is,
(21:08):
let's list out what are yourexpectations. Let's hang it from
the locker room on the lockers.
Let's make sure that the studentathletes know what the
expectations are. Let's makesure the parents know what the
expectations are, becauseotherwise, parents see a
snapshot of what's happening, orthey get a Bryant to call home,
or a kid gets in the car andthey've got tears on their face
(21:30):
and Well, what happened? They ifthey can, then go back to well,
here are the team expectations,and it looks like you're not
meeting them. If they can get onboard with what's going on and
what makes this team successful,and all of that stuff that's not
related to the winning, right?
It's not related to the outcome.
It's related to the process. Ifthey can get on board with what
(21:50):
that entails, then we can reallymake an impact.
Tommy Valentini (21:54):
Yeah, I think we want parents in on on our
culture, right? That that ourvalues in our in our process
come first, and that's thehighest standard of success,
right? And so, like, we can besuccessful and lose, and we can
be unsuccessful and win, right?
And we want parents to get thatunderstanding right, and then
that hopefully impacts how thatcar ride home goes, right. So,
(22:15):
so I love watching you play.
That's the first thing out oftheir mouth. We try to also get
them to also get them to askquestions that have to do with
their effort and their attitudeand their respect, before the
questions are about the results,right? And then we try to get
them to react as unemotionallyas they can when it comes to
(22:35):
results, right? Because a lot oftimes I think, well, if we're
not, as a parent, going to loseour mind when, when they lose,
then we're doing great. But thenthey get in the car and we lose
our minds in a positive way whenthey win, right, which sends the
same exact message, right, thatthe result is the most important
thing and the thing that mattersmost. So it's in what we say and
what we don't say. But all ofthat is so much easier to do as
(22:57):
parents and stakeholders if wehave a clear sense of the
philosophy and the behaviorsthat extend from that
philosophy, if we know thatgoing in, right? I mean, asking
parents to get on board withthat without having them get a
clear understanding ofphilosophically what we're doing
in the first place, that's likeasking you to train all year and
(23:18):
then go play the nationalchampionship left handed, right?
I mean, it makes no sense wewouldn't do that to our to our
athletes, right? So we can'texpect that we can do that to
our other stakeholders as well.
And so that's, I think, thatconversation and training piece
is so, so important ineverything from the philosophy
to how we're going to approachsuccess to what our values are
(23:38):
and how we want to live themout. And that extends to, I
mean, I just, you know, both interms of my coaching, but also
in terms of my academic work.
It's all centered aroundbuilding a culture that teaches
values and creates the space tobe great at the thing you're
doing, both at the same time.
And I think those expectationsare so important to be clear
(24:00):
about, but also to be tied tothe culture so that people stop
this low level behavior of beingaccountable to just the person
in charge, right? Like you knowthis, like you, when you have
great teams, you don't want yourplayers to be accountable to
whatever Coach B says. That'snot how it works. That might get
(24:22):
us, that might get beyondfreshmen, you know, our first
year going for a couple weeks,right? But after that, it's they
have to be accountable to eachother, and they have to be
accountable to the culture,because this is ours, right? And
we don't often do that, mostlybecause of all the pay for play
stuff and the youth sportsspace, and hey, if somebody
doesn't like it, they'll just goto club x, or they'll go y,
(24:43):
right? Or they'll leave. Sothere's less investment in the
in the group, right? And in thegroup culture. And so I think
that's where we lose a lot ofthis. But ultimately, if we're
going to get it done, that's,that's the key, I think, because
of the way it gets, that youjust, you don't like the way
(25:04):
it's going, so you leave, right?
It's such a I mean, granted,he's not dissimilar to what's
going on in college sports rightnow, right where? Where this
line is so blurred between.
Don't want people staying insituations that are toxic. But
also we just allow people now topush the eject button so early
that we don't create the theenvironment for any of the
(25:28):
things that we're trying toteach to actually develop. So I
don't want to make it sound likeit's absolute, right, that you
got to stay in the first placeyou go to, and it's got to be
that way forever, especially inthe youth sports space. But, you
know, I think people, like Isaid, people hit that eject
button so quickly that theydon't see those expectations
(25:50):
that you talked about that areso crucial on time. What can we
miss? What, you know, just thebasic stuff. They don't see that
as part of the culture. Theyjust see that as being
accountable to the person who'sever in charge. And that's,
that's, there's no thatreasoning doesn't stick for
doing it well and doing iteffectively and believing right?
The reasoning that sticks fordoing it well and doing
(26:12):
effectively and believing in itis, this is who we are, right?
Like, if I don't go to practicesix days in a row, then I want
to play on the seventh day,right? Well, that could be I
pissed the coach off, but whatreally makes that meaningful is,
listen, one of our core valuesis that we give our best effort,
right? And now this is what wedo, and I this is not a way for
(26:33):
me to give my best effort,right? One of our core
principles is we operate onrespect right now. I've not
respected my teammates, I've notrespected my coaches. I've not
respected the process that we'regoing through, right and now I'm
just going to show up and play.
That's a whole lot differentthan I can I can get over, you
(26:54):
know, Coach X or coach y being alittle frustrated, right?
Especially if they're, you know,not a professional coach, right?
That they have a day job, andthen they're showing up to coach
this thing later on, right? Andwhatever it's but, but if it's,
if it's I'm not my actions arenot in line with these
expectations, that are not inline with our culture and who we
are, then we've got then we'vegot challenges, and I think we
(27:17):
can do a better job, especiallyin the youth sports space,
college and we get older, andit's a little more baked into
the pie there, if you're runningyour college program, well, I
think, but in the youth sportsspace, we've got to make it
about our culture, right? Andthen I think there's more grace
involved there as well, right?
Like our culture is about thesevalues. You're going on a family
vacation that was planned a yearago, and now you all of a sudden
(27:40):
made this team as the lastperson on the quadruple a team,
right? If this is about ourculture, then you're probably
going on that trip. If this isabout I'm going to piss off
Coach Jones, then we're in sometough water there.
Amy Bryant (27:54):
Yeah, interesting, fascinating. I love, I love how
you frame that with beingaccountable to the team, that's
brilliant. Unfortunately, that'sall we have time for today. But
we have another great episodewith Tommy plan to drop soon,
and he'll share some moreinsights about team values,
culture and lots of other Greatstuff. You really won't want to
(28:16):
miss it.
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