November 26, 2024 • 25 mins
Today's Play: Our guest today underscores the value in youth athletes experiencing struggles and challenges to prepare them for the demands of college sports. Coaches also face challenges, especially during the preseason, including the unpredictability of player performance and the differences between recruiting and coaching. Overall, today's play underscores the importance of fostering autonomy and problem-solving skills in young athletes to support their long-term development and success.
Today's Coach: Kyle Gookins is a former Division I Head Men's Soccer Coach who currently is the Director of My College Soccer, a college soccer recruiting consulting agency. He has over 23 years of coaching experience at every level of youth and amateur soccer and has also been a US Soccer Scout for the USSF Youth national teams.
To learn more about Bryant College Coaching, and download our new e-book, click here or go to www.bryantcollegecoaching.com
Picking Teams: A Playbook for Parents is produced by: Amy Bryant and Sasha Melamud
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amy Bryant (00:00):
Kyle. Hello, everyone in today's episode, I'm
(00:13):
back with Kyle Bucha. You mayremember him from episodes one
and nine. Kyle and I recordedthis one a while back, back when
fall sports were in theirpreseasons, but even now, as
winter sports are ramping up, Ithink the conversations are
relevant and interesting to hearfor those of you who don't
remember, Kyle is a formerdivision one head men soccer
(00:34):
coach and USSF youth nationalteam Scout who currently scouts
for an MLS team. Welcome back,Kyle. So what are you seeing out
there in the big world of soccerright now?
Kyle Gookins (00:48):
It's fall sports.
They're in preseason. So, like,my phone is blowing up right now
because I'm on a few like, textchains of, you know, head
coaches that are in preseason,and they just keep texting each
other, like, oh, you know,various funny memes and
different things, becausethey're all in double days and
doing things, I think they'rejust bored and trying to chat to
people. But like, we wouldalways have, like, Alright,
(01:10):
who's going to be but you'realways in for a surprise, right?
In preseason, like, you'realways going to have a surprise.
It could be a good surprise, orit could be a good surprise. But
like, you know, there'ssomething's gonna surprise you.
We would always try to guess it.
Like, all right, who's gonna bethe surprise this year? Like, we
would just try to have a littlebit of fun with it and go, like,
(01:31):
all right, like, who's, youknow, who's you try to guess
who's gonna surprise you. Inever got it right. I never, I
never got it. That's why it'ssurprised. I guess
Amy Bryant (01:38):
so for me in the in the in the preseason. And in
Division Three, you don'tactually have preseason, so you
just have a starting date andthat's it. You go really well
for for most sports, I thinkactually, the fall sports get to
come to school a little earlierthe start dates determined by
the first day of school. Andthere's some some allowances
(01:58):
there with them.
Kyle Gookins (01:59):
Is that just d3 because d1 and has to do with
your first competition date.
Amy Bryant (02:03):
Yeah, I think, I think it's a little bit
different. I'd have to doublecheck that, but I would always
sit there during the first, youknow, couple days of practice
and wanting one of my playersthat I kind of took a chance on
in recruiting and thought that,you know, well, we needed, we
needed to fill the roster. Ididn't get the recruits that I
(02:24):
really wanted, so I had thatextra spot. I gave it to this
kid that was showing potential.
You know, the one out of all ofall of them that I had talked to
that was showing the mostpotential. And there she is on
the first day. And in my heartof hearts, I'm like, she's
gonna, she's just gonna surpriseme and blow me out of the water.
And then you watch her hit thefirst ball, and you're like, Oh,
those text chains included a lotof like, poop emojis from me and
(02:48):
like, like, and then, you know,of course, we get the surprise
of one of my favorite stories,and this is actually a success
story too, but her one of my,all time, my highest recruit
that I've ever gotten in like,and we got so much, you know, PR
on we use the site tennisrecruiting for recruiting at
that time and and we had so muchattention for pulling in the
(03:12):
first five star and divisionthree women's tennis, right? She
didn't show up for the first dayof practice. Didn't show up. So,
I mean, she and I, look, shemade it. She is a success story.
Yeah, good, good friends now,and at my retirement party, you
know, she roasted me. I roastedher. And not like she got lost
(03:35):
on campus, coming to the tenniscourts, which are in the center
campus. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah.
So we, we have been laughedabout that, but I totally get it
that first week. I mean, thepoint is we as coaches, we can
recruit, we can recruit, we canrecruit, we can watch and scout
(03:58):
and talk to coaches and andfollow the progression of
success of players. Doesn'tmatter what the sport is, but we
are never 100% right or 100%sure, and we know we never get
exactly who we want. And youknow, this is what I say to my
student athletes now that I workwith from all sports all the
time, there's a trickle downeffect. You know, Coach has
(04:18):
their top list, and they havetheir tier two, they have their
tier three, they know exactlywhere they're going. What are
the chances of them getting tothe tier two depends. But, you
know, every year is different,but, but we never get everyone
we want. So there's a little bitof hope that goes in our first
week of practice.
Kyle Gookins (04:36):
It's like, it's so true. I mean, I'm that's a lot
of like, you know, I keeptexting like, I'm on these
chains. I'm like, Oh, how's itgoing? And they're just like, we
still don't know. There's a lotof unknowns, you know, like
we're still figuring guys out,like they're figuring us out.
And it's funny, you justmentioned, like, we coaches go
out there and recruit. And Idon't think this came up
yesterday, when I was at thisMLS Academy. Again, I was
(04:58):
chatting to one of the seventeams head coach there, and he
we were talking about, you know,college coaching, the transport
that we don't have to talk aboutthe transfer, but we'd be
running a day. But he was, wewere just chatting about that,
like, guys moving clubs anddifferent things like that. And
he's like, I try to tell guysthat there is a difference
between recruiting and coaching.
Yeah, like, when Coopers arerecruiting, of course they're
(05:22):
selling, like, of course theyare. They're like, rolling out
the red carpet. They're tellingyou, they're telling you, like,
here's where you can get to.
Here's where we see theprojection. We're hoping you can
get there. But then when you'rethere, the job of the coach
changes. They're not recruit.
They're gonna push you out ofyour comfort zone. They gotta,
like, you know, they got to pushyour buttons a little bit to get
you to, like, play and performat higher levels. So I think
(05:43):
sometimes I remember goingthrough it as a play. I
definitely remember it as acoach, like, oh man, there's a
dip at that. We're notpreseason. There's a huge dip in
these guys. Like, they come inall excited, especially newer
players, and then that firstweek, it's like, almost like
they're drinking from a firehose, and they're like, Oh my
gosh. Like, where's the playerwe recruited? You know what? I
mean? Yeah, like, and it's like,no, it doesn't mean they don't
(06:06):
like you. It's like, you justhave to push on through that.
Like you have to persevere alittle bit. And there is,
they're not a different person.
They're just, they're coachingyou now, like their job as a
recruiter is to, like, sell youon the project and the vision of
the program. But like, onceyou're there, now you're part of
the vision. Like you've got tohelp drive that vision and push
(06:28):
sometimes people forget it, likethey just want to be told,
everything's great and you'redoing awesome. That's like, not
always the case. Sometimes tolda hard truth, and I think
sometimes they get jaded when,especially in preseason, it's
like a lot for new players. Itwas for me. I remember I called
my dad. I was very fortunate. Mydad played college football. I
(06:49):
had a little bit of like,background of that, and he I
didn't know he did this. I foundout later when I saw where I
played college soccer. I thencoached afterwards. I was a grad
assistant after so, like, I gota different perspective being a
player coach there, and I have areally good relationship with my
coach, because he coached me,and then I worked for him. So it
was, like, and I didn't knowthat before the first day of
(07:10):
practice, my dad called, or,like, after I committed, he
called him and he said, This isthe only time you're going to
hear from me. And I just wantyou to know that, like, if you
need anything for me, you cancall me, but I'm not gonna call
and pester you, but this is theonly time, this is the only time
I hope you hear from me. Is whathe basically told him, like
this, I just, you know, wish youluck, and if you need, if you
(07:31):
need my support with anything tohelp him, let me know I didn't
know this. Like my Simon told melater, oh yeah, your dad called
me and just told me, like, thisis the only time you're gonna
hear from me. I was like,really, I didn't even know that,
right? Because I remembercalling my dad after, like, four
days of preseason, right? Like,on, like, you know, I've got
brought in, like, same thing. Iwas a high profile player. They
(07:51):
brought in, like, a guy that wasgonna go division one than
Division two. I didn't play. Ididn't barely play the first
preseason game. I was like,looking. I was like, Why would
you bring me and give me andgive me the scholarship money to
them not play me? Right? My dadwas like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa, like, you need first,like, calm down. Like, let's
adjust that attitude, yeah.
Like, you seriously. Was like,Look, you have two options.
Like, you can be an asset or youcan be a liability, like that.
(08:14):
You have two options out there.
So, like, and it, like, Ichange. It completely changed my
mindset, because I think, like,now, if I didn't have that
advice, I would havetransferred. Yeah, I would have
immediately just gone. Thisisn't for me. It's too hard.
They don't really want me here.
They're not feeding my people.
No, no, no. You have to makethem play you like they want to
(08:36):
win the game. They just don'tthink you can help them win.
That's it, like it's when theybroke it down like that. I was
like, Okay, you went. You got tobe the hardest working player
out there. They will play you. Iwas like, All right, done. And
it like, just changed. He waslike, you don't get to complain
to me. And which is great advicefor me as a parent, you know? I
was like, I have a I have a son,luckily, doesn't, you know, he's
not in sports, but I would givehim the same advice. It's like,
(08:58):
you know, you have to make themwant to play you. And I don't,
you know, I think sometimes thetransfer portal is an easy way
out of uncomfortable situationswhere it's like, I think when
you break it down, like mostcoaches, yeah, they want to
develop people, but like, theywant to try to win the game.
Essentially, we're allcompetitive. We want to try to
(09:18):
win. It's like, All right, wewant to help the athletes, help
us, help help the team win. Sowe're going to put the people
who we think are going to dowell
Amy Bryant (09:26):
well and and there's just so many things that I want
to explore there. And I thinkthis is the purpose of this
podcast, really for us ascoaches or ex coaches, to be
able to help parents, to helptheir kids, because if you
hadn't had a dad that had playeda college sport was familiar
(09:51):
with Dynamics and coachingthings, you wouldn't have gotten
that kind of advice. And withoutthat advice, who knows where you
would have gone like, yourattitude could have been sour in
that first game, which couldhave cost you the next game and
the next game and the next, youknow, and like that kind of
steady decline, you know, yourattitude, your energy, follows
(10:12):
your thoughts, right? And so ifyour attitude is down, you know
that's going to impact yourplaying and your performance.
And suddenly you're not the topdog anymore. Like the coach in
that moment when he wasn'tplaying in that first game, he's
thinking, I'm going to develophim. He's got a lot to learn,
this, that and the other. That'sall he's saying. He's not
saying, let's sit Kyle down sohe learns a lesson that's saying
(10:35):
he's not like, let's teach thisnumber one recruit. You know
what? It's all about to be here,like this, is it? That's not
what a coach is doing. Like yousaid, a coach wants to win. He's
thinking big picture. He'sthinking, this kid needs, you
know, some growth, somedevelopment. He's there for and
if you haven't had that kind ofexperience with your father and
that kind of guidance, thatcould have gone sour in so many
(10:58):
different ways, and look at youstayed at the same school. You
play for four years, successstory. Then work for, you know,
became a coach, etc, etc. Andthen the number one thing, you
know, just to make this littlepersonal, with my kids, number
one thing that I said to myhusband as we went into soccer,
they're both soccer players. Iwill never call the coach, yeah,
(11:19):
if there's an issue I will nevercall a coach. Now, I had to back
down a little bit off of thatwhen they were, you know, 1011,
1213, years old. And, you know,there's, there's some other
situations at play, certainly,but it was always with an
understanding that the coach hasthis bigger picture idea of how
(11:40):
to get my son and his team towhere it needs to go, and so I'm
there to support that vision,and that's it. And if a coach
needs me, then great. They knowI'm there. I love I love that
when my kids are in college, Iwill never call the coach unless
it has to do with mental health,yeah, that would be the only
(12:03):
time, you know, and that's whatwe recommend for families as
well that we work with. But justsit back, I have so many funny
stories of parents reaching outto me as a coach. What I should
have done now, in retrospect, ishow to parent expectation
meeting at the beginning of theyear over zoom. You know, we had
used zoom.
Kyle Gookins (12:20):
Yeah, I wasn't a thing, right? Yeah,
Amy Bryant (12:22):
but now we could so with nice zoom parent
expectation meeting would begreat. Let's set it up. But
there are so many parents, itdoesn't matter how many
expectations you lay on them,how clear you are with the
boundaries you're trying to set.
As a coach, they just believethat there are things they need
to say to you at certain times,and you need to hear them like
my one of the ones that comes tomind now, and I'm sure I have
(12:46):
loads that that will come tomind later. I had a parent and a
lover, but every time herdaughter was it had a birthday,
her mom would text me to let meknow. I just want you know, you
know, she's a little homesick,and her birthday is coming up.
So could you just make sure thatyou, you know, let everyone know
and do something special for thebirthday. And my gut reaction to
(13:08):
that is, okay, this is a 20 yearold girl. He's messaging me.
Tell me that it's your birthday.
But you know, when I get alittle bit more professional,
you know, I start to think aboutthe separation of duties on a
team and what a role of acaptain is versus what is the
(13:31):
role of a coach. And so to justto say to any parents that might
be listening if you really feellike your daughter is homesick
or needs a little boost on theirbirthday, the better person to
reach out to would be thecaptain of the team or perhaps a
teammate or a friend, notnecessarily a coach.
Kyle Gookins (13:49):
That's such good advice like that is. I mean,
that is really, really goodadvice, too. I also forget that.
You know, when I it wasdifferent as a player versus
coach, because I didn't have aseasy access to my parents. You
know, I made the joke to mywife. Like, when I went to
college, I changed the permanentaddress. Also, like, my parents
(14:10):
didn't even know what gradeslike, like, it wasn't like there
was an online you couldn't checkit, like it got sent to where my
on campus. They didn't seeanything. Like, I was 18. I'm an
adult. I'm gonna handle it, butit's no idea. So it's now, but
I, you know, I take for granted.
Like, I'm sure when my son incollege, I'll text him, Hey,
how's it going? Like, how youfeeling? Like, you know,
(14:33):
checking in. So it's like, it'sthe access to your to your son
or daughter, is at yourfingertips, but, yeah, lean into
the other people and thesupporting, the supporting cast
in the group, right? Theroommates, the other people on
the team. I, you know, that's soimportant. I would say that as
guys go on visits, or, you know,guys who goes on visits, I'm
(14:55):
like, it's just as important toget the vibes of the coaches as
it is to get the vibes of theplayers, yes, those are the
people you are going to spend alot of time with. Yeah. Like,
yeah. Locations, awesome. Like,oh, it's by the beach, great.
But are the players nice? Like,what's the culture of the team?
Like, right? Because I can thatcan get you out of that
(15:18):
homesickness, or that can we'vealso, it's funny, you talked
about parents, and I think weused to as coaches. We would go
into preseason, and we wouldpurposely set up people by
roommates. If we were like, allright, this person needs to get
away from their parents. They'rea little bit too overbearing, so
(15:38):
we would put them with,especially, like in men. So we
put up with, like, a foreignplayer, yeah, people, foreigners
are, like, they're a little bitolder, you know what? I mean,
they're a little bit theyusually came in a little bit
more mature, you know, like, youknow, 18 year old freshman
American you have, like, a 20year old, you know, German
player who's been out of thehouse a little bit, so he's just
like, Ah, come on, don't worryabout you. So it was like, kind
(15:59):
of giving him a little bitdifferent perspective on
different perspective on hewould, like, try to set those
things up to help balance thatabsolutely you're so right,
like, there were, I mean, therewere, there were parents that
you'd hear from a lot. Myfavorite ones were the ones that
would tell me how prepared theywere going into the season,
right? Like, like, that wassomething to be celebrated. And
(16:23):
I was like, shouldn't we? Shouldthat just be the standard? So I
luckily, I know that's my Imean, you're very similar. I
would always have a gutreaction, like, what? And then I
would write it down. Luckily,when I was head coach, I had an
incredible administrativeassistant, and I would go out to
her son happened to be incollege at a different school,
so I'd always go, Is thisappropriate to send back to this
(16:44):
email? And she'd go, it's alittle harsh. And I was like,
okay, when you would balance meout, I think that is so
important. I would have justsaid my gut reaction. It would
have been just another, anotherbad, you know, follow up email.
But I think those to me werelike, I know that she had good
intentions. The mom did, like,he's excited me back, and I
needed to take a step back.
(17:06):
Like, okay, I just need to sendlike, Thanks. We're excited to
like, that's where is my gutreaction.
Amy Bryant (17:12):
I'm glad your child is fit. Thank you.
Kyle Gookins (17:14):
I wanted to respond to pick up the phone and
go, like, isn't that what he'ssupposed to do? Like, so that,
to me, was more of the like, youknow, like, almost no matter how
I think the parents that Ididn't mind, parents that were
upset because I That, to me,showed that they were that they
cared about their child, yeah,and they really wanted to
question what I was that didn'tbother me as much about them.
(17:37):
And there's a reason maybe thatyour son's not performing,
whether it's academically orathletically or something, but
that's an easier conversation tome. It was like the parents that
were lobbying or using politicsto kind of like, get more for
their child, as opposed to otherones that that was tough for me
as a head coach, where I waslike, I see what you're trying
(17:57):
to do. Why don't you just letyour child try to, try to earn
it for themselves, as opposedto, like, politicking a little
bit.
Amy Bryant (18:05):
Yeah, well, I mean, it all boils down to playing
time, right? I mean, I wouldhear from more parents if their
child wasn't playing, like,that's, you know, whether that's
entitlement, whether that, youknow, whatever it is. I mean, we
see that the youth levels too.
It's like when the when the kidsnot playing, then the parents
get real mouthy on thesidelines, and, you know, start
becoming what I call cancer, andthey talk to parents this coach
(18:26):
doesn't know what they're doing.
You know, you can see theprogression of negativity and
the cloud kind of covering partof the part of the parent group.
But
Kyle Gookins (18:38):
how did you handle those situations? Because I
maybe have handled it a littlebit differently, and probably
not that that differently, andprobably not the best I got when
I got sent emails about that.
Like, why is me playing? I wouldbring, I would bring the player
into the office, and I wouldjust turn my computer up and go,
This is what I got from yourparents. Like, because I was, I
was so honest with them why theyweren't, why they weren't
playing. I'm like, do you wantto tell them why you're not
playing? Or want me to tellthem? And they'd like all hand
(19:00):
they'll go all handle them,okay? Yeah, I would give them
the opportunity, because Ididn't want to embarrass them.
Amy Bryant (19:08):
well, even with the player, whose mom wanted me to
know, is her birthday everyyear, or that there's special
going on, yeah, I got multipletexts from the mom about, like,
ridiculous stuff. I always toldthe player. I just want you to
know I heard from your mom theplayers, whenever their parents
message are humiliated, they donot want their parents talking
(19:30):
to the coach. They know whatthey need to do. They know what
they need to improve upon, andthat, to me, is the singular
most important thing that yourdad did for you, that parents
can do for their child and willhelp them to develop. And that
is to say, right back to them,what is your coach said to you?
What? What do you need toimprove upon? What are your
(19:50):
goals here? How do you want tomove forward? And if a parent
can say, you know, how can yoube positive, productive? And
part of the solution here,you're you've been taken out of
the lineup, you're or you're notgetting the playing time. You
thought. So what's what are youroptions? You can't control a
coach's decision, but you cancontrol your reaction to that
(20:13):
decision, and that is a verypowerful thing for for kids to
think about, that parents canshare with their with their
kids, and help them to thinkthrough it, because the way they
respond will impactrelationships. Moving into the
future will impact, like I said,your future plan opportunity,
and then also is a greatreflection of how things are
(20:37):
going to be when you leavecollege and graduate and get
your first job. What happenswhen you get passed up for that
first promotion or first projectyou really wanted? You're going
to sulk and have your parentscall? Are you going to or are
you going to be positive,productive and part of the
solution, and move forward andthen in a mature and
professional way? And that's thebottom line. When a coach takes
(20:58):
a kid out of the lineup, that isa professional decision, not a
personal decision. Doesn't meanthe coach doesn't like your kid
exactly it means. And we getback to what you said before.
Coaches want to win. They wantto do what's best for the team,
for the program. The big picturein mind, and that's what it
boils down to
Kyle Gookins (21:16):
Totally agree, I think that's such a valuable
statement for parents in theyouth game as well, because,
like, I think what you said is,I think every parent of a youth
athlete should take that onboard and start to use that
strategy in the youth game sothat they're better prepared
going into the college like,it's not just like a complete,
(21:37):
you know, all right, old Turkeycut off, you know, communication
from the parent to the coach,and, you know, now the parent to
the kids, just, like, not set upfor success. Like, start to do
that when they're younger,right? Good with your you know,
1314 year olds. Like, I just,like I said, I was out of Dallas
Academy where there's 14 yearold, you know, 14 year old kids
(21:57):
that are 3000 miles away fromtheir parents. Their parents
aren't calling the coach if theydon't play like they have to
figure it out. And they'relearning, and it's incredible
learning experience. So it'slike, like, I had a conversation
before I went to the MLS Academyfrom a different club director
who had just gotten back from aforeign trip. So he took it,
(22:19):
they took a team over to Englandand played. And I said, Oh, it
sounds amazing. Would you loveit? And he goes, I would love to
do it again without any parents.
Yeah, like,
Amy Bryant (22:30):
I've done a lot of international tours,
Kyle Gookins (22:31):
yeah. He was just like, he goes, it was awesome.
But, like, the kids that didn'thave their parents there, I
think got more out of it, yeah?
Like, you could, you could seeit's like, it was almost like he
was like, I'm told him, I said,the times I've done it
yesterday, four trips areawesome, but you have to put the
parents in a different hotel.
Yeah, you have to separatethings and, like, let the boys
(22:52):
experience things. Like, when Iwent on the foreign trip, when I
was, you know, 1314, my mom anddad didn't go, like, it was
expensive. I was was gone for 30straight days. Like, was
amazing. I loved every minute ofit. Like, yeah, you know. And
this is what I try to tell you.
This is going back a lot ofthemes that we talked about,
like the experiences you get byplaying different levels of
(23:12):
sports like that. Thatexperience, to me, is just as
powerful as playing collegesports, right? Like, you know,
my really good friend that wenton that trip with us, and then
we were on the same team. He'sthe Cal head coach, and then
soccer for Cal Berkeley. He wona national championship at UCLA.
He played in the MLS. Every timeI see him, he goes, how fun was
that trip to Europe when we werefirst words out of his mouth?
(23:34):
Like, man, I guess I think aboutthat European trip. Yeah, every
day, yeah. Of course you do.
Like, that's like, you know, hehad an incredible playing
career, even coaching career.
Like, it's Cal head coach, butlike, it's, you know, his
parents weren't there either.
Like, we just got to figurethings out. And we played
sometimes we didn't play. Like,you figured it out on the road.
(23:54):
It's like, such a valuable tool.
Like, now for you parents ofyouth athletes, like, give your
kids a little bit of autonomy,and, like, give them the power
and the strategies oncommunicating with their
coaches, and, like, runningthrough mistakes, like, that's
okay, totally okay. And it'sgonna help them when they go to
college, if they're gonna bebetter equipped.
Amy Bryant (24:16):
Absolutly and, and I think, you know, as we wrap up
this session, like, I thinkthat's the number one lesson the
parents need to remember, isthat struggles are okay. Like,
it's a, you know, it's like,it's like the parent that rushes
their kids aid when they skintheir knee, you know, just let
them, let them feel it out whenthey're, you know, a little kid.
Let them feel it out whenthey're in youth soccer. Youth
(24:38):
Sports doesn't matter. Let themfeel it out, let them, let them
experience the emotions thatcome with having to sit on the
bench a little bit and deal witha tough coach and deal with, you
know, within reason, like we'renot saying that abuse your
child, but within reason. Andyou know these struggles are
good, and they make your kidsstronger, and that is entirely
(25:01):
true at the college level, as itis in the youth sports level.
Kyle Gookins (25:04):
Completely agree, like I completely I completely
agree it doesn't, you know, it'sjust like a slow drip, drip
effect as you're as you'repushing them on through through
the levels to get played collegesports. Completely agree with
that. That is like a very, very,very, very true statement.
Amy Bryant (25:21):
Awesome. Well, let's wrap things up for today. Kyla
was great as always. I'm surewe'll have you back again soon.
Bye.
Kyle. Hello, everyone in today's episode, I'm
(00:13):
back with Kyle Bucha. You mayremember him from episodes one
and nine. Kyle and I recordedthis one a while back, back when
fall sports were in theirpreseasons, but even now, as
winter sports are ramping up, Ithink the conversations are
relevant and interesting to hearfor those of you who don't
remember, Kyle is a formerdivision one head men soccer
(00:34):
coach and USSF youth nationalteam Scout who currently scouts
for an MLS team. Welcome back,Kyle. So what are you seeing out
there in the big world of soccerright now?
Kyle Gookins (00:48):
It's fall sports.
They're in preseason. So, like,my phone is blowing up right now
because I'm on a few like, textchains of, you know, head
coaches that are in preseason,and they just keep texting each
other, like, oh, you know,various funny memes and
different things, becausethey're all in double days and
doing things, I think they'rejust bored and trying to chat to
people. But like, we wouldalways have, like, Alright,
(01:10):
who's going to be but you'realways in for a surprise, right?
In preseason, like, you'realways going to have a surprise.
It could be a good surprise, orit could be a good surprise. But
like, you know, there'ssomething's gonna surprise you.
We would always try to guess it.
Like, all right, who's gonna bethe surprise this year? Like, we
would just try to have a littlebit of fun with it and go, like,
(01:31):
all right, like, who's, youknow, who's you try to guess
who's gonna surprise you. Inever got it right. I never, I
never got it. That's why it'ssurprised. I guess
Amy Bryant (01:38):
so for me in the in the in the preseason. And in
Division Three, you don'tactually have preseason, so you
just have a starting date andthat's it. You go really well
for for most sports, I thinkactually, the fall sports get to
come to school a little earlierthe start dates determined by
the first day of school. Andthere's some some allowances
(01:58):
there with them.
Kyle Gookins (01:59):
Is that just d3 because d1 and has to do with
your first competition date.
Amy Bryant (02:03):
Yeah, I think, I think it's a little bit
different. I'd have to doublecheck that, but I would always
sit there during the first, youknow, couple days of practice
and wanting one of my playersthat I kind of took a chance on
in recruiting and thought that,you know, well, we needed, we
needed to fill the roster. Ididn't get the recruits that I
(02:24):
really wanted, so I had thatextra spot. I gave it to this
kid that was showing potential.
You know, the one out of all ofall of them that I had talked to
that was showing the mostpotential. And there she is on
the first day. And in my heartof hearts, I'm like, she's
gonna, she's just gonna surpriseme and blow me out of the water.
And then you watch her hit thefirst ball, and you're like, Oh,
those text chains included a lotof like, poop emojis from me and
(02:48):
like, like, and then, you know,of course, we get the surprise
of one of my favorite stories,and this is actually a success
story too, but her one of my,all time, my highest recruit
that I've ever gotten in like,and we got so much, you know, PR
on we use the site tennisrecruiting for recruiting at
that time and and we had so muchattention for pulling in the
(03:12):
first five star and divisionthree women's tennis, right? She
didn't show up for the first dayof practice. Didn't show up. So,
I mean, she and I, look, shemade it. She is a success story.
Yeah, good, good friends now,and at my retirement party, you
know, she roasted me. I roastedher. And not like she got lost
(03:35):
on campus, coming to the tenniscourts, which are in the center
campus. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah.
So we, we have been laughedabout that, but I totally get it
that first week. I mean, thepoint is we as coaches, we can
recruit, we can recruit, we canrecruit, we can watch and scout
(03:58):
and talk to coaches and andfollow the progression of
success of players. Doesn'tmatter what the sport is, but we
are never 100% right or 100%sure, and we know we never get
exactly who we want. And youknow, this is what I say to my
student athletes now that I workwith from all sports all the
time, there's a trickle downeffect. You know, Coach has
(04:18):
their top list, and they havetheir tier two, they have their
tier three, they know exactlywhere they're going. What are
the chances of them getting tothe tier two depends. But, you
know, every year is different,but, but we never get everyone
we want. So there's a little bitof hope that goes in our first
week of practice.
Kyle Gookins (04:36):
It's like, it's so true. I mean, I'm that's a lot
of like, you know, I keeptexting like, I'm on these
chains. I'm like, Oh, how's itgoing? And they're just like, we
still don't know. There's a lotof unknowns, you know, like
we're still figuring guys out,like they're figuring us out.
And it's funny, you justmentioned, like, we coaches go
out there and recruit. And Idon't think this came up
yesterday, when I was at thisMLS Academy. Again, I was
(04:58):
chatting to one of the seventeams head coach there, and he
we were talking about, you know,college coaching, the transport
that we don't have to talk aboutthe transfer, but we'd be
running a day. But he was, wewere just chatting about that,
like, guys moving clubs anddifferent things like that. And
he's like, I try to tell guysthat there is a difference
between recruiting and coaching.
Yeah, like, when Coopers arerecruiting, of course they're
(05:22):
selling, like, of course theyare. They're like, rolling out
the red carpet. They're tellingyou, they're telling you, like,
here's where you can get to.
Here's where we see theprojection. We're hoping you can
get there. But then when you'rethere, the job of the coach
changes. They're not recruit.
They're gonna push you out ofyour comfort zone. They gotta,
like, you know, they got to pushyour buttons a little bit to get
you to, like, play and performat higher levels. So I think
(05:43):
sometimes I remember goingthrough it as a play. I
definitely remember it as acoach, like, oh man, there's a
dip at that. We're notpreseason. There's a huge dip in
these guys. Like, they come inall excited, especially newer
players, and then that firstweek, it's like, almost like
they're drinking from a firehose, and they're like, Oh my
gosh. Like, where's the playerwe recruited? You know what? I
mean? Yeah, like, and it's like,no, it doesn't mean they don't
(06:06):
like you. It's like, you justhave to push on through that.
Like you have to persevere alittle bit. And there is,
they're not a different person.
They're just, they're coachingyou now, like their job as a
recruiter is to, like, sell youon the project and the vision of
the program. But like, onceyou're there, now you're part of
the vision. Like you've got tohelp drive that vision and push
(06:28):
sometimes people forget it, likethey just want to be told,
everything's great and you'redoing awesome. That's like, not
always the case. Sometimes tolda hard truth, and I think
sometimes they get jaded when,especially in preseason, it's
like a lot for new players. Itwas for me. I remember I called
my dad. I was very fortunate. Mydad played college football. I
(06:49):
had a little bit of like,background of that, and he I
didn't know he did this. I foundout later when I saw where I
played college soccer. I thencoached afterwards. I was a grad
assistant after so, like, I gota different perspective being a
player coach there, and I have areally good relationship with my
coach, because he coached me,and then I worked for him. So it
was, like, and I didn't knowthat before the first day of
(07:10):
practice, my dad called, or,like, after I committed, he
called him and he said, This isthe only time you're going to
hear from me. And I just wantyou to know that, like, if you
need anything for me, you cancall me, but I'm not gonna call
and pester you, but this is theonly time, this is the only time
I hope you hear from me. Is whathe basically told him, like
this, I just, you know, wish youluck, and if you need, if you
(07:31):
need my support with anything tohelp him, let me know I didn't
know this. Like my Simon told melater, oh yeah, your dad called
me and just told me, like, thisis the only time you're gonna
hear from me. I was like,really, I didn't even know that,
right? Because I remembercalling my dad after, like, four
days of preseason, right? Like,on, like, you know, I've got
brought in, like, same thing. Iwas a high profile player. They
(07:51):
brought in, like, a guy that wasgonna go division one than
Division two. I didn't play. Ididn't barely play the first
preseason game. I was like,looking. I was like, Why would
you bring me and give me andgive me the scholarship money to
them not play me? Right? My dadwas like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa, like, you need first,like, calm down. Like, let's
adjust that attitude, yeah.
Like, you seriously. Was like,Look, you have two options.
Like, you can be an asset or youcan be a liability, like that.
(08:14):
You have two options out there.
So, like, and it, like, Ichange. It completely changed my
mindset, because I think, like,now, if I didn't have that
advice, I would havetransferred. Yeah, I would have
immediately just gone. Thisisn't for me. It's too hard.
They don't really want me here.
They're not feeding my people.
No, no, no. You have to makethem play you like they want to
(08:36):
win the game. They just don'tthink you can help them win.
That's it, like it's when theybroke it down like that. I was
like, Okay, you went. You got tobe the hardest working player
out there. They will play you. Iwas like, All right, done. And
it like, just changed. He waslike, you don't get to complain
to me. And which is great advicefor me as a parent, you know? I
was like, I have a I have a son,luckily, doesn't, you know, he's
not in sports, but I would givehim the same advice. It's like,
(08:58):
you know, you have to make themwant to play you. And I don't,
you know, I think sometimes thetransfer portal is an easy way
out of uncomfortable situationswhere it's like, I think when
you break it down, like mostcoaches, yeah, they want to
develop people, but like, theywant to try to win the game.
Essentially, we're allcompetitive. We want to try to
(09:18):
win. It's like, All right, wewant to help the athletes, help
us, help help the team win. Sowe're going to put the people
who we think are going to dowell
Amy Bryant (09:26):
well and and there's just so many things that I want
to explore there. And I thinkthis is the purpose of this
podcast, really for us ascoaches or ex coaches, to be
able to help parents, to helptheir kids, because if you
hadn't had a dad that had playeda college sport was familiar
(09:51):
with Dynamics and coachingthings, you wouldn't have gotten
that kind of advice. And withoutthat advice, who knows where you
would have gone like, yourattitude could have been sour in
that first game, which couldhave cost you the next game and
the next game and the next, youknow, and like that kind of
steady decline, you know, yourattitude, your energy, follows
(10:12):
your thoughts, right? And so ifyour attitude is down, you know
that's going to impact yourplaying and your performance.
And suddenly you're not the topdog anymore. Like the coach in
that moment when he wasn'tplaying in that first game, he's
thinking, I'm going to develophim. He's got a lot to learn,
this, that and the other. That'sall he's saying. He's not
saying, let's sit Kyle down sohe learns a lesson that's saying
(10:35):
he's not like, let's teach thisnumber one recruit. You know
what? It's all about to be here,like this, is it? That's not
what a coach is doing. Like yousaid, a coach wants to win. He's
thinking big picture. He'sthinking, this kid needs, you
know, some growth, somedevelopment. He's there for and
if you haven't had that kind ofexperience with your father and
that kind of guidance, thatcould have gone sour in so many
(10:58):
different ways, and look at youstayed at the same school. You
play for four years, successstory. Then work for, you know,
became a coach, etc, etc. Andthen the number one thing, you
know, just to make this littlepersonal, with my kids, number
one thing that I said to myhusband as we went into soccer,
they're both soccer players. Iwill never call the coach, yeah,
(11:19):
if there's an issue I will nevercall a coach. Now, I had to back
down a little bit off of thatwhen they were, you know, 1011,
1213, years old. And, you know,there's, there's some other
situations at play, certainly,but it was always with an
understanding that the coach hasthis bigger picture idea of how
(11:40):
to get my son and his team towhere it needs to go, and so I'm
there to support that vision,and that's it. And if a coach
needs me, then great. They knowI'm there. I love I love that
when my kids are in college, Iwill never call the coach unless
it has to do with mental health,yeah, that would be the only
(12:03):
time, you know, and that's whatwe recommend for families as
well that we work with. But justsit back, I have so many funny
stories of parents reaching outto me as a coach. What I should
have done now, in retrospect, ishow to parent expectation
meeting at the beginning of theyear over zoom. You know, we had
used zoom.
Kyle Gookins (12:20):
Yeah, I wasn't a thing, right? Yeah,
Amy Bryant (12:22):
but now we could so with nice zoom parent
expectation meeting would begreat. Let's set it up. But
there are so many parents, itdoesn't matter how many
expectations you lay on them,how clear you are with the
boundaries you're trying to set.
As a coach, they just believethat there are things they need
to say to you at certain times,and you need to hear them like
my one of the ones that comes tomind now, and I'm sure I have
(12:46):
loads that that will come tomind later. I had a parent and a
lover, but every time herdaughter was it had a birthday,
her mom would text me to let meknow. I just want you know, you
know, she's a little homesick,and her birthday is coming up.
So could you just make sure thatyou, you know, let everyone know
and do something special for thebirthday. And my gut reaction to
(13:08):
that is, okay, this is a 20 yearold girl. He's messaging me.
Tell me that it's your birthday.
But you know, when I get alittle bit more professional,
you know, I start to think aboutthe separation of duties on a
team and what a role of acaptain is versus what is the
(13:31):
role of a coach. And so to justto say to any parents that might
be listening if you really feellike your daughter is homesick
or needs a little boost on theirbirthday, the better person to
reach out to would be thecaptain of the team or perhaps a
teammate or a friend, notnecessarily a coach.
Kyle Gookins (13:49):
That's such good advice like that is. I mean,
that is really, really goodadvice, too. I also forget that.
You know, when I it wasdifferent as a player versus
coach, because I didn't have aseasy access to my parents. You
know, I made the joke to mywife. Like, when I went to
college, I changed the permanentaddress. Also, like, my parents
(14:10):
didn't even know what gradeslike, like, it wasn't like there
was an online you couldn't checkit, like it got sent to where my
on campus. They didn't seeanything. Like, I was 18. I'm an
adult. I'm gonna handle it, butit's no idea. So it's now, but
I, you know, I take for granted.
Like, I'm sure when my son incollege, I'll text him, Hey,
how's it going? Like, how youfeeling? Like, you know,
(14:33):
checking in. So it's like, it'sthe access to your to your son
or daughter, is at yourfingertips, but, yeah, lean into
the other people and thesupporting, the supporting cast
in the group, right? Theroommates, the other people on
the team. I, you know, that's soimportant. I would say that as
guys go on visits, or, you know,guys who goes on visits, I'm
(14:55):
like, it's just as important toget the vibes of the coaches as
it is to get the vibes of theplayers, yes, those are the
people you are going to spend alot of time with. Yeah. Like,
yeah. Locations, awesome. Like,oh, it's by the beach, great.
But are the players nice? Like,what's the culture of the team?
Like, right? Because I can thatcan get you out of that
(15:18):
homesickness, or that can we'vealso, it's funny, you talked
about parents, and I think weused to as coaches. We would go
into preseason, and we wouldpurposely set up people by
roommates. If we were like, allright, this person needs to get
away from their parents. They'rea little bit too overbearing, so
(15:38):
we would put them with,especially, like in men. So we
put up with, like, a foreignplayer, yeah, people, foreigners
are, like, they're a little bitolder, you know what? I mean,
they're a little bit theyusually came in a little bit
more mature, you know, like, youknow, 18 year old freshman
American you have, like, a 20year old, you know, German
player who's been out of thehouse a little bit, so he's just
like, Ah, come on, don't worryabout you. So it was like, kind
(15:59):
of giving him a little bitdifferent perspective on
different perspective on hewould, like, try to set those
things up to help balance thatabsolutely you're so right,
like, there were, I mean, therewere, there were parents that
you'd hear from a lot. Myfavorite ones were the ones that
would tell me how prepared theywere going into the season,
right? Like, like, that wassomething to be celebrated. And
(16:23):
I was like, shouldn't we? Shouldthat just be the standard? So I
luckily, I know that's my Imean, you're very similar. I
would always have a gutreaction, like, what? And then I
would write it down. Luckily,when I was head coach, I had an
incredible administrativeassistant, and I would go out to
her son happened to be incollege at a different school,
so I'd always go, Is thisappropriate to send back to this
(16:44):
email? And she'd go, it's alittle harsh. And I was like,
okay, when you would balance meout, I think that is so
important. I would have justsaid my gut reaction. It would
have been just another, anotherbad, you know, follow up email.
But I think those to me werelike, I know that she had good
intentions. The mom did, like,he's excited me back, and I
needed to take a step back.
(17:06):
Like, okay, I just need to sendlike, Thanks. We're excited to
like, that's where is my gutreaction.
Amy Bryant (17:12):
I'm glad your child is fit. Thank you.
Kyle Gookins (17:14):
I wanted to respond to pick up the phone and
go, like, isn't that what he'ssupposed to do? Like, so that,
to me, was more of the like, youknow, like, almost no matter how
I think the parents that Ididn't mind, parents that were
upset because I That, to me,showed that they were that they
cared about their child, yeah,and they really wanted to
question what I was that didn'tbother me as much about them.
(17:37):
And there's a reason maybe thatyour son's not performing,
whether it's academically orathletically or something, but
that's an easier conversation tome. It was like the parents that
were lobbying or using politicsto kind of like, get more for
their child, as opposed to otherones that that was tough for me
as a head coach, where I waslike, I see what you're trying
(17:57):
to do. Why don't you just letyour child try to, try to earn
it for themselves, as opposedto, like, politicking a little
bit.
Amy Bryant (18:05):
Yeah, well, I mean, it all boils down to playing
time, right? I mean, I wouldhear from more parents if their
child wasn't playing, like,that's, you know, whether that's
entitlement, whether that, youknow, whatever it is. I mean, we
see that the youth levels too.
It's like when the when the kidsnot playing, then the parents
get real mouthy on thesidelines, and, you know, start
becoming what I call cancer, andthey talk to parents this coach
(18:26):
doesn't know what they're doing.
You know, you can see theprogression of negativity and
the cloud kind of covering partof the part of the parent group.
But
Kyle Gookins (18:38):
how did you handle those situations? Because I
maybe have handled it a littlebit differently, and probably
not that that differently, andprobably not the best I got when
I got sent emails about that.
Like, why is me playing? I wouldbring, I would bring the player
into the office, and I wouldjust turn my computer up and go,
This is what I got from yourparents. Like, because I was, I
was so honest with them why theyweren't, why they weren't
playing. I'm like, do you wantto tell them why you're not
playing? Or want me to tellthem? And they'd like all hand
(19:00):
they'll go all handle them,okay? Yeah, I would give them
the opportunity, because Ididn't want to embarrass them.
Amy Bryant (19:08):
well, even with the player, whose mom wanted me to
know, is her birthday everyyear, or that there's special
going on, yeah, I got multipletexts from the mom about, like,
ridiculous stuff. I always toldthe player. I just want you to
know I heard from your mom theplayers, whenever their parents
message are humiliated, they donot want their parents talking
(19:30):
to the coach. They know whatthey need to do. They know what
they need to improve upon, andthat, to me, is the singular
most important thing that yourdad did for you, that parents
can do for their child and willhelp them to develop. And that
is to say, right back to them,what is your coach said to you?
What? What do you need toimprove upon? What are your
(19:50):
goals here? How do you want tomove forward? And if a parent
can say, you know, how can yoube positive, productive? And
part of the solution here,you're you've been taken out of
the lineup, you're or you're notgetting the playing time. You
thought. So what's what are youroptions? You can't control a
coach's decision, but you cancontrol your reaction to that
(20:13):
decision, and that is a verypowerful thing for for kids to
think about, that parents canshare with their with their
kids, and help them to thinkthrough it, because the way they
respond will impactrelationships. Moving into the
future will impact, like I said,your future plan opportunity,
and then also is a greatreflection of how things are
(20:37):
going to be when you leavecollege and graduate and get
your first job. What happenswhen you get passed up for that
first promotion or first projectyou really wanted? You're going
to sulk and have your parentscall? Are you going to or are
you going to be positive,productive and part of the
solution, and move forward andthen in a mature and
professional way? And that's thebottom line. When a coach takes
(20:58):
a kid out of the lineup, that isa professional decision, not a
personal decision. Doesn't meanthe coach doesn't like your kid
exactly it means. And we getback to what you said before.
Coaches want to win. They wantto do what's best for the team,
for the program. The big picturein mind, and that's what it
boils down to
Kyle Gookins (21:16):
Totally agree, I think that's such a valuable
statement for parents in theyouth game as well, because,
like, I think what you said is,I think every parent of a youth
athlete should take that onboard and start to use that
strategy in the youth game sothat they're better prepared
going into the college like,it's not just like a complete,
(21:37):
you know, all right, old Turkeycut off, you know, communication
from the parent to the coach,and, you know, now the parent to
the kids, just, like, not set upfor success. Like, start to do
that when they're younger,right? Good with your you know,
1314 year olds. Like, I just,like I said, I was out of Dallas
Academy where there's 14 yearold, you know, 14 year old kids
(21:57):
that are 3000 miles away fromtheir parents. Their parents
aren't calling the coach if theydon't play like they have to
figure it out. And they'relearning, and it's incredible
learning experience. So it'slike, like, I had a conversation
before I went to the MLS Academyfrom a different club director
who had just gotten back from aforeign trip. So he took it,
(22:19):
they took a team over to Englandand played. And I said, Oh, it
sounds amazing. Would you loveit? And he goes, I would love to
do it again without any parents.
Yeah, like,
Amy Bryant (22:30):
I've done a lot of international tours,
Kyle Gookins (22:31):
yeah. He was just like, he goes, it was awesome.
But, like, the kids that didn'thave their parents there, I
think got more out of it, yeah?
Like, you could, you could seeit's like, it was almost like he
was like, I'm told him, I said,the times I've done it
yesterday, four trips areawesome, but you have to put the
parents in a different hotel.
Yeah, you have to separatethings and, like, let the boys
(22:52):
experience things. Like, when Iwent on the foreign trip, when I
was, you know, 1314, my mom anddad didn't go, like, it was
expensive. I was was gone for 30straight days. Like, was
amazing. I loved every minute ofit. Like, yeah, you know. And
this is what I try to tell you.
This is going back a lot ofthemes that we talked about,
like the experiences you get byplaying different levels of
(23:12):
sports like that. Thatexperience, to me, is just as
powerful as playing collegesports, right? Like, you know,
my really good friend that wenton that trip with us, and then
we were on the same team. He'sthe Cal head coach, and then
soccer for Cal Berkeley. He wona national championship at UCLA.
He played in the MLS. Every timeI see him, he goes, how fun was
that trip to Europe when we werefirst words out of his mouth?
(23:34):
Like, man, I guess I think aboutthat European trip. Yeah, every
day, yeah. Of course you do.
Like, that's like, you know, hehad an incredible playing
career, even coaching career.
Like, it's Cal head coach, butlike, it's, you know, his
parents weren't there either.
Like, we just got to figurethings out. And we played
sometimes we didn't play. Like,you figured it out on the road.
(23:54):
It's like, such a valuable tool.
Like, now for you parents ofyouth athletes, like, give your
kids a little bit of autonomy,and, like, give them the power
and the strategies oncommunicating with their
coaches, and, like, runningthrough mistakes, like, that's
okay, totally okay. And it'sgonna help them when they go to
college, if they're gonna bebetter equipped.
Amy Bryant (24:16):
Absolutly and, and I think, you know, as we wrap up
this session, like, I thinkthat's the number one lesson the
parents need to remember, isthat struggles are okay. Like,
it's a, you know, it's like,it's like the parent that rushes
their kids aid when they skintheir knee, you know, just let
them, let them feel it out whenthey're, you know, a little kid.
Let them feel it out whenthey're in youth soccer. Youth
(24:38):
Sports doesn't matter. Let themfeel it out, let them, let them
experience the emotions thatcome with having to sit on the
bench a little bit and deal witha tough coach and deal with, you
know, within reason, like we'renot saying that abuse your
child, but within reason. Andyou know these struggles are
good, and they make your kidsstronger, and that is entirely
(25:01):
true at the college level, as itis in the youth sports level.
Kyle Gookins (25:04):
Completely agree, like I completely I completely
agree it doesn't, you know, it'sjust like a slow drip, drip
effect as you're as you'repushing them on through through
the levels to get played collegesports. Completely agree with
that. That is like a very, very,very, very true statement.
Amy Bryant (25:21):
Awesome. Well, let's wrap things up for today. Kyla
was great as always. I'm surewe'll have you back again soon.
Bye.
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