March 14, 2025 • 11 mins
Join us for the March Bootcamp; https://betterpickleball.com/spring-bootcamp/
This week, let's dive into a concept I stumbled upon through an insightful video featuring a psychologist from Duke University. She introduces the idea of the "learning space"—the journey from not knowing to knowing.
Picture two dots on a board, one representing ignorance and the other knowledge, connected by a squiggly line. This "learning space" is where growth happens and, interestingly, where frustration resides.
Frustration is part of growth and is the single emotion that dominates the learning space. But here's the twist—those who thrive in their journey are the ones who embrace it.
Now, why should you embrace frustration? Because it signifies movement. It indicates that you're transitioning from not knowing to knowing, inching closer to your goals.
The learning space in pickleball, and life in general, is dynamic. As you conquer one aspect of pickleball, another challenge emerges. Imagine first struggling with scoring, then tactics, and onwards. The cycle of not knowing and knowing perpetually shifts, ensuring endless opportunities for growth.
Unlike a sedentary lifestyle, pickleball's challenges build your mental muscles, preparing you to tackle life's adversities with strength and grace.
Be well!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to Pickleball Therapy, the podcastdedicated to your pickleball improvement.
This is the podcast that puts yourmind at the center of your game.
I am the host of your weekly podcast,Tony Roig it's a pleasure to be with you.
This is episode 235 of the podcast.
This week we're going to talkabout the learning space.
(00:26):
It's a really interesting way of thinkingabout your journey as a pickleball player
and dealing with the most common feelingthat we have, which is frustration.
And when we're in the learning space, Ithink you're going to find
it really interesting.
Before we dive into the podcast, I'm goingto repeat the favor from the last episode,
which is if you know a player out therewho's on a journey of improvement, someone
(00:47):
who's, you know, maybe feeling likethere's more to the game than
they're able to connect with.
Right now we have a boot camp coming upright now in March which I think will
really connect with them and help themimprove in their sport.
It's a super recentlypriced podcast or boot camp.
And then if they like that, then theycan join us for our upcoming TPS course.
(01:11):
So that's the.That's the plan.
So if you can help us reach players likeyou who are interested in more than just
hitting the ball when they're out thereon the court, we would appreciate that.
All right, so let's talk aboutthis learning space idea.
So I came across this video and that'sactually one of the reasons I like
sometimes just flowing through videos,because I wasn't looking for
(01:32):
this, you know, the idea.
And I came across it was.
It was a psychologist speaking at Duke,and she was talking about how,
you know, she basically had two dots on aboard and one dot was not knowing
and the other dot was knowing.
Now, this could apply to anything.
In our case, we're using it forpickleball, but it can apply to
(01:54):
anything that you don't know.
So not knowing, and youwant to get over to knowing.
And then she had this kind of a squigglyline between the two
dots, kind of up and down.
And then so the focuswas on the space between.
Between knowing and not knowing.
The squiggly line.What is that?
So she calls that the learning space.
(02:15):
And what's really interesting about thatidea is that, is that it, like it gives.
It puts something a name on something,right, that we know we're
doing, but we don't really.
We're not clear on what's happening kindof like when you play pickleball, right,
you have the baseline and youhave the non volley zone line.
Well, we call the space in the middleeither transition zone or no man's land,
something like that, to give it like a.
(02:36):
So that we can understandthat it has a name, right?
It's not just like blue cord or red cordor whatever color it is in your facility.
So this area between not knowingand knowing is the learning space.
And what she said is, she said, whenyou're in the learning space,
there is one.
There's one feeling or one emotion andonly one emotion that's associated with
(03:01):
anyone whenever you'rein the learning space.
And that one feeling, thatone emotion is frustration.
That's the natural state whenyou're in this learning space.
So if you think about it for a second,right, you say, okay,
I don't know something.
And in this case it's pickle, right?
Or I don't know it theway I want to know it.
(03:22):
So I want to go fromnot knowing to knowing.
I'm going to be traversing this space,this transition zone
called the learning space.
And the emotion that I'm going to befeeling during this time is
frustration, right?
So I expect frustration whenI'm in the learning space.
And she continued to expound on that.
(03:43):
So I'm basically saying that the personswho are able to grow the most, right?
Persons who are able to continue on theirjourneys the furthest are those who
are able to withstand frustration, right?
The persons who are able to justdive in and say, you know what?
(04:05):
I'm embracing the frustration, right?
There's a saying, you know,embrace the suck, if you will.
So basically I'm just embracing thefeeling of being frustrated.
And I know that it's fine because it'snecessary for me to progress
from not knowing to knowing.
The more you're able to do that, right?
The more you're able to either accept itor resist it, however you
(04:27):
want to think about it.
But the more you're able to stay in thatmiddle zone between not knowing and
knowing,the more you'll grow, in this case, as a
pickleball player, butalso in life, right?
The more you're willing to put up withfrustration or just accept it, right?
If you want to be more Buddhist about it,you're just kind of like,
oh, that's the state of now.And I'll just.
It is what it is, right?
(04:48):
You can do a stoic approach, a nihilisticapproach, whatever you want, right?
But at the bottom line isit's not bucking.
Don't buck frustration, right?
Avoid the temptation to.
To get upset aboutbeing frustrated, to be.
Be disappointed that you're frustrated,to, you know, feel bad
that you're frustrated.
(05:09):
In fact, if you think about it, bigpicture, it's the opposite, right?
You should embrace frustration.
You should say, not only am I not upsetthat I'm frustrated, I'm
excited that I'm frustrated.
Because if I'm frustrated, what I knowis what I'm in the learning space, right?
If I'm frustrated, what I know isI am moving from not knowing
(05:31):
closer to knowing, right?
If I'm frustrated, I'm movingforward towards what I want.
There are the puppies.
So the puppies are active right now, andso you might hear them in
the background a little bit.That's Benita and Olivia.
Every once in a while,they're pretty quiet dogs.
They don't bark a lot, but every once in awhile, they get a little
excited about something.
But, you know, so frustration is not onlynot bad, frustration is a positive because
(05:58):
we're moving forward.
And what I would suggest to you is if you.
The more you work this through, the moreyou understand that
it's a permanent state.
And allow me to explain this to you.
So right now we have twodots, not knowing and knowing.
And we're looking at the spacein between as a learning space.
(06:18):
And then we're talking about frustrationbeing the natural feeling in that space.
But here's the thing.
As I go fromnot knowing to knowing, as long as I'm
still curious, as long as I still want togrow, that not knowing
dot continues to slide, right?Because.
(06:42):
And let's just.Let's make it simple.
Let's start at the beginning.
So let's say that you just started playingpickleball and you don't
know how to keep score.
Frustrating, if you remember, right?
It's kind of like I can't remember how tokeep score, so I don't
know how to keep score.
And then there's knowinghow to keep score.
And in the middle learningspace, frustration.
Okay, Now I know how to keep score, but Idon't really understand the strategy
(07:02):
for what to do in my return of serve.
So I'm back into a not knowing knowing anda not knowing knowing and
a not knowing knowing.
Right now you have anot knowing knowing gap.
If you're, excuse me, curious and want togrow, you have a not knowing gap between
where you are and where you want to be.
And that continuously slides, right?
There is no.
(07:23):
There is no end point in pickle ballunless you decide the only end point in
pickle ball is when you sayto yourself, I'm done growing.
And there's.Don't, don't take this the wrong way.
It's not a, it's not a adjudication thatyou're a bad person or
that it's perfectly fine.
You're entitled to engage withthe sport however you want.
You know, I would submit to you thatpersonally, whether it's inside or
(07:47):
outside of pickleball, you should.
I would suggest it's more fulfilling toengage in this life with a constant growth
idea, with a never, you know, always.
There's this idea of always thinkingyourself as a beginner
in everything, right?You're always.
I'm always like looking atit as I'm, I'm new to this.
What can I continue to grow in, right?As a person?
(08:08):
I think pickleball is agreat place to do that.
Think about it like a canvas for yourself.
And we've talked about a little bitbefore, but just don't
lose sight of that, right?
Pickleball is a great space that allowsyou to work on yourself physically,
socially, emotionally,mentally, everything.
And actually the way.
(08:28):
Recent interview with pro player RichardLivernis, he talked about it like
basically it gives him more reps.
You know, let's say you're playingpickleball four or five
times a week, right?
There's going to be plenty ofplaces there for you to work on your
mental journey because you're going tohave so many different exposures to
(08:50):
potentially adversemental reactions, right?
You missed a shot, you losta game, you should have won.
Whatever, whatever you're thinking, right?
All these different things are differentrepetitions that you have that allow you
to continue to strengthen your, your,your mental journey muscles, right?
Your ability to, to dealwith those situations.
Whereas if you remove that, right?
(09:10):
So let's say you weren't playingthat, those pickleball games.
And, and let's assume, let'sgo completely the other way.
Completely sedentary lifestyle, sittingon the couch, watching television.
There's no adversity, right?
Other than, you know, maybe once a monthor something, you're looking back
on like, what did I do last month?
But other than that, I mean, like duringday in and day out, you're just kind of
receiving information there' Whatever.
So these, these pressures that pickleballcreates for us allow us to continue to get
(09:36):
the reps, to continue to, to continue towork on our mental processes inside
the game, but also outside the game.
So as you work forward, right?
From not knowing to knowing, understandingthat those are always going to be moving
goalposts as long as you are open to thatand understanding that the space between
them, this learning space is a learningspace is an area that when you're
(10:00):
transiting it, it's going to becharacterized by feelings of frustration.
Then what happens is you canembrace the frustration, right?
And definitely, at least don'tfight the frustration, right?
Don't get upset about the frustration.Just embrace it.
And then you'll continue to grow as aperson, knowing that your
(10:21):
frustration is a necessary piece to yourgrowth, from not knowing to knowing.
Which will improve your pickleball andmore importantly, will improve your life.
So hopefully this helps you navigate notjust pickleball, but also outside of
pickleball, in terms of any kind of growthprocess that you are engaged with,
as long as you remain open to growth.
That's this week's podcast.
(10:41):
I hope you enjoyed it.
If you have a minute to rateand review it, fantastic.
And as always, if you can shareit with your friends, great.
Because remember, if youenjoyed the podcast, thanks.
They probably will too.
I hope you have a great weekend and weekand I will see you at the next
episode of Pickleball Therapy.Be well.
Welcome to Pickleball Therapy, the podcastdedicated to your pickleball improvement.
This is the podcast that puts yourmind at the center of your game.
I am the host of your weekly podcast,Tony Roig it's a pleasure to be with you.
This is episode 235 of the podcast.
This week we're going to talkabout the learning space.
(00:26):
It's a really interesting way of thinkingabout your journey as a pickleball player
and dealing with the most common feelingthat we have, which is frustration.
And when we're in the learning space, Ithink you're going to find
it really interesting.
Before we dive into the podcast, I'm goingto repeat the favor from the last episode,
which is if you know a player out therewho's on a journey of improvement, someone
(00:47):
who's, you know, maybe feeling likethere's more to the game than
they're able to connect with.
Right now we have a boot camp coming upright now in March which I think will
really connect with them and help themimprove in their sport.
It's a super recentlypriced podcast or boot camp.
And then if they like that, then theycan join us for our upcoming TPS course.
(01:11):
So that's the.That's the plan.
So if you can help us reach players likeyou who are interested in more than just
hitting the ball when they're out thereon the court, we would appreciate that.
All right, so let's talk aboutthis learning space idea.
So I came across this video and that'sactually one of the reasons I like
sometimes just flowing through videos,because I wasn't looking for
(01:32):
this, you know, the idea.
And I came across it was.
It was a psychologist speaking at Duke,and she was talking about how,
you know, she basically had two dots on aboard and one dot was not knowing
and the other dot was knowing.
Now, this could apply to anything.
In our case, we're using it forpickleball, but it can apply to
(01:54):
anything that you don't know.
So not knowing, and youwant to get over to knowing.
And then she had this kind of a squigglyline between the two
dots, kind of up and down.
And then so the focuswas on the space between.
Between knowing and not knowing.
The squiggly line.What is that?
So she calls that the learning space.
(02:15):
And what's really interesting about thatidea is that, is that it, like it gives.
It puts something a name on something,right, that we know we're
doing, but we don't really.
We're not clear on what's happening kindof like when you play pickleball, right,
you have the baseline and youhave the non volley zone line.
Well, we call the space in the middleeither transition zone or no man's land,
something like that, to give it like a.
(02:36):
So that we can understandthat it has a name, right?
It's not just like blue cord or red cordor whatever color it is in your facility.
So this area between not knowingand knowing is the learning space.
And what she said is, she said, whenyou're in the learning space,
there is one.
There's one feeling or one emotion andonly one emotion that's associated with
(03:01):
anyone whenever you'rein the learning space.
And that one feeling, thatone emotion is frustration.
That's the natural state whenyou're in this learning space.
So if you think about it for a second,right, you say, okay,
I don't know something.
And in this case it's pickle, right?
Or I don't know it theway I want to know it.
(03:22):
So I want to go fromnot knowing to knowing.
I'm going to be traversing this space,this transition zone
called the learning space.
And the emotion that I'm going to befeeling during this time is
frustration, right?
So I expect frustration whenI'm in the learning space.
And she continued to expound on that.
(03:43):
So I'm basically saying that the personswho are able to grow the most, right?
Persons who are able to continue on theirjourneys the furthest are those who
are able to withstand frustration, right?
The persons who are able to justdive in and say, you know what?
(04:05):
I'm embracing the frustration, right?
There's a saying, you know,embrace the suck, if you will.
So basically I'm just embracing thefeeling of being frustrated.
And I know that it's fine because it'snecessary for me to progress
from not knowing to knowing.
The more you're able to do that, right?
The more you're able to either accept itor resist it, however you
(04:27):
want to think about it.
But the more you're able to stay in thatmiddle zone between not knowing and
knowing,the more you'll grow, in this case, as a
pickleball player, butalso in life, right?
The more you're willing to put up withfrustration or just accept it, right?
If you want to be more Buddhist about it,you're just kind of like,
oh, that's the state of now.And I'll just.
It is what it is, right?
(04:48):
You can do a stoic approach, a nihilisticapproach, whatever you want, right?
But at the bottom line isit's not bucking.
Don't buck frustration, right?
Avoid the temptation to.
To get upset aboutbeing frustrated, to be.
Be disappointed that you're frustrated,to, you know, feel bad
that you're frustrated.
(05:09):
In fact, if you think about it, bigpicture, it's the opposite, right?
You should embrace frustration.
You should say, not only am I not upsetthat I'm frustrated, I'm
excited that I'm frustrated.
Because if I'm frustrated, what I knowis what I'm in the learning space, right?
If I'm frustrated, what I know isI am moving from not knowing
(05:31):
closer to knowing, right?
If I'm frustrated, I'm movingforward towards what I want.
There are the puppies.
So the puppies are active right now, andso you might hear them in
the background a little bit.That's Benita and Olivia.
Every once in a while,they're pretty quiet dogs.
They don't bark a lot, but every once in awhile, they get a little
excited about something.
But, you know, so frustration is not onlynot bad, frustration is a positive because
(05:58):
we're moving forward.
And what I would suggest to you is if you.
The more you work this through, the moreyou understand that
it's a permanent state.
And allow me to explain this to you.
So right now we have twodots, not knowing and knowing.
And we're looking at the spacein between as a learning space.
(06:18):
And then we're talking about frustrationbeing the natural feeling in that space.
But here's the thing.
As I go fromnot knowing to knowing, as long as I'm
still curious, as long as I still want togrow, that not knowing
dot continues to slide, right?Because.
(06:42):
And let's just.Let's make it simple.
Let's start at the beginning.
So let's say that you just started playingpickleball and you don't
know how to keep score.
Frustrating, if you remember, right?
It's kind of like I can't remember how tokeep score, so I don't
know how to keep score.
And then there's knowinghow to keep score.
And in the middle learningspace, frustration.
Okay, Now I know how to keep score, but Idon't really understand the strategy
(07:02):
for what to do in my return of serve.
So I'm back into a not knowing knowing anda not knowing knowing and
a not knowing knowing.
Right now you have anot knowing knowing gap.
If you're, excuse me, curious and want togrow, you have a not knowing gap between
where you are and where you want to be.
And that continuously slides, right?
There is no.
(07:23):
There is no end point in pickle ballunless you decide the only end point in
pickle ball is when you sayto yourself, I'm done growing.
And there's.Don't, don't take this the wrong way.
It's not a, it's not a adjudication thatyou're a bad person or
that it's perfectly fine.
You're entitled to engage withthe sport however you want.
You know, I would submit to you thatpersonally, whether it's inside or
(07:47):
outside of pickleball, you should.
I would suggest it's more fulfilling toengage in this life with a constant growth
idea, with a never, you know, always.
There's this idea of always thinkingyourself as a beginner
in everything, right?You're always.
I'm always like looking atit as I'm, I'm new to this.
What can I continue to grow in, right?As a person?
(08:08):
I think pickleball is agreat place to do that.
Think about it like a canvas for yourself.
And we've talked about a little bitbefore, but just don't
lose sight of that, right?
Pickleball is a great space that allowsyou to work on yourself physically,
socially, emotionally,mentally, everything.
And actually the way.
(08:28):
Recent interview with pro player RichardLivernis, he talked about it like
basically it gives him more reps.
You know, let's say you're playingpickleball four or five
times a week, right?
There's going to be plenty ofplaces there for you to work on your
mental journey because you're going tohave so many different exposures to
(08:50):
potentially adversemental reactions, right?
You missed a shot, you losta game, you should have won.
Whatever, whatever you're thinking, right?
All these different things are differentrepetitions that you have that allow you
to continue to strengthen your, your,your mental journey muscles, right?
Your ability to, to dealwith those situations.
Whereas if you remove that, right?
(09:10):
So let's say you weren't playingthat, those pickleball games.
And, and let's assume, let'sgo completely the other way.
Completely sedentary lifestyle, sittingon the couch, watching television.
There's no adversity, right?
Other than, you know, maybe once a monthor something, you're looking back
on like, what did I do last month?
But other than that, I mean, like duringday in and day out, you're just kind of
receiving information there' Whatever.
So these, these pressures that pickleballcreates for us allow us to continue to get
(09:36):
the reps, to continue to, to continue towork on our mental processes inside
the game, but also outside the game.
So as you work forward, right?
From not knowing to knowing, understandingthat those are always going to be moving
goalposts as long as you are open to thatand understanding that the space between
them, this learning space is a learningspace is an area that when you're
(10:00):
transiting it, it's going to becharacterized by feelings of frustration.
Then what happens is you canembrace the frustration, right?
And definitely, at least don'tfight the frustration, right?
Don't get upset about the frustration.Just embrace it.
And then you'll continue to grow as aperson, knowing that your
(10:21):
frustration is a necessary piece to yourgrowth, from not knowing to knowing.
Which will improve your pickleball andmore importantly, will improve your life.
So hopefully this helps you navigate notjust pickleball, but also outside of
pickleball, in terms of any kind of growthprocess that you are engaged with,
as long as you remain open to growth.
That's this week's podcast.
(10:41):
I hope you enjoyed it.
If you have a minute to rateand review it, fantastic.
And as always, if you can shareit with your friends, great.
Because remember, if youenjoyed the podcast, thanks.
They probably will too.
I hope you have a great weekend and weekand I will see you at the next
episode of Pickleball Therapy.Be well.
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