August 5, 2025 • 19 mins
In this special episode, I sit down live at Major League Pickleball with Dr. Peter Scales to explore how players can elevate their mental game through mindful focus and between-point routines. We dive into powerful mindset techniques for recovering after mistakes, managing high-pressure moments, and embracing personal growth through competition. Be sure to give the episode a listen.
Show Notes: https://betterpickleball.com/1530-special-episode-lions-pickleball-results-and-more-with-dr-peter-scales
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Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
In this special episode of PickleballTherapy, the podcast dedicated
to your pickleball improvement.
This is a special treat foryou and a special treat for me.
I'm here in St.
Louis at major League Pickleball and I'mgoing to introduce the gentleman
sitting next to me in one second.
But this gentleman actually is, is veryinstrumental in the beginning of my own
journey as a, as a moreaware mental athlete.
(00:27):
Right.In the mental part of the game.
I got exposed to Coach Peter's bookkind of early on in my process here.
Right.
I played tennis for a long time, didn'tknow anything about this kind of stuff.
Read Coach Peter's book.
It revolutionized the way I think aboutit, really opened me up
to new ways of thinking.
I have the podcast putting out abook, all thanks to Coach Peter.
And so, Coach Peter, it's such a pleasureto have you as part of the Pickleball
(00:49):
therapy, like history and inthis podcast in particular.
Yeah.Great to be here again.
I always enjoy it whenwe get together, Tony.
So, so, yeah, thanks for having me.
So I'm glad, I'm glad he.
I'm glad Coach Peter gotsomething out of it as well.
So.And just a full introduction.
Coach Peter Scales is a psychologist.
He's also a coach, tennis coach, mostmostly, and then also pickleball.
(01:10):
Now doing some pickleball stuff.
But his development of the framework ofcom Peter, learn, honor has, is just a
really interesting way of approaching it.
And coach, what we were talking aboutdoing is maybe chatting
about some concepts.
We're here at Major League Pickleballagain, so we're watching
some pro action live.
We see the ups and downs and, and, and wewere talking about some
(01:30):
observations you had yesterday.
Why don't you tee us up andwe'll just go from there.
Sure.Yeah.
It's great to be at anMLP event here in St.
Louis.
And yesterdaythere are a few things that I saw that,
you know, a couple of themwill be obvious to people.
One of them may be a little surprisingto think of as part of the mental game.
First one was when we look at we havepremier level and we have
(01:53):
challenger level teams.
I'm just looking at achallenger level match.
Right.Las Vegas, they're the favorites.
They're supposed to win the ChallengerDivision, move up to premier next year.
They lost the first two games.
They're in a hole to D.C.they had to come back, they had to win two
more games, then they hadto win a Dream Breaker.
(02:14):
Okay.
The only way you can do that is to havethe mindset of one point at
a time, you can't rush it.
You have to have patience.
That's mental.
You have to be just absolutely solid,that, hey, this isn't over yet.
They haven't won a third game.
So, you know, most of us don't haveto play best three out of five.
But if you're down 7, 08090, it still isn't over.
(02:39):
It still isn't over.
So as long as you think about one pointat a time, you can make a comeback.
So that, I mean, that'sall a mental process.
Yeah, it's interesting, Coach, how.
And I had a similar observation yesterdayin it was Brooklyn against Chicago Slice,
and I think it was Chicago Sliceserving up, serving 9, 10 down 9, 10.
(02:59):
And the observation I made in the littleshort that I made was
there's no three point shot.
So going nine to 12doesn't make any sense.
Right?
So it's basically right now it's,let's go nine to ten if you can.
Right?
And then from there then you can worryabout 10 to 11 and then 11 to 12.
But you know, yeah, the, the one step at atime or one moment or being in the moment.
Right.
Just focusing on the nextrally, what you can control.
(03:20):
Well, and, and the other part of that,Tony, is this isn't the time for fancy
stuff, you know, fundamentals,just your basics.
Get past the first four shots, get intothe point, don't make a mistake on the
return of serve, get the serve in deep,you know, play your basic fundamentals
and just be solid, you know,and let's talk about that a.
(03:41):
Second coach, because I've been, I've beentalking to players about,
you know, players want tofocus when they're playing.
I, I understand, I fully understand that,you know, and, and I'm going to tee it
up and then you go, you run with it.
But from my perspective, it's impossibleto have full focus all the time.
You basically, you, you've kind of likeraised the bar however
(04:02):
you want to think about.
You just run out of energy however youwant to look at it, but you can't do that.
And so going to what you're saying now,because one of my conversations was again,
I'm not saying like, don't be focused, butdon't, don't kind of kill yourself
with focus until this, this stage.
In other words, the, the nine,ten, you know, I, I need this one.
I, I really need this one.
(04:22):
This is like legitimate.
It's not, we're not at two, one Again,not, you don't throw points away.
But I'm not at 2:1.
I don't have to like hunker down at 2:1.
I need to hunker down at 9, 10 or 10:9 oryou know those critical moments in games
that make the difference betweenthe outcome and the outcomes.
Well, and you can look at it that way.
Another way to look at it isthat there's two games going on.
(04:44):
There's the game when the ball's actuallyin play and then there's the
game between points, right?
And so you can not lose focus but have adifferent focus in your
between point routine.
And that was kind of the secondthing I observed yesterday.
And you can see it with a lot of players.
But I happen to be watching Anna Brightand their women's doubles match
(05:06):
and going back to the wall and tappingwith the paddle whether she won or lost,
whether that team won or lost the point.
And the relentless positivitywith her partner in between points.
Relentless positivity.
It's a different focus.
So you can actually relax the playinglevel focus,
(05:29):
but you have to have the focus on therecovery positive or at least neutral
reaction to the point just played.
What are we going to do on the next point?
Okay, we're back in it, let's go.
And all within, you know,10 seconds or so, right?
So it's, you know, the focus.I agree with you.
You can't possibly maintain100% focus 100% of the time.
So you've got to be clear about for youand singles and for you and your partner
(05:54):
in doubles, when does it make the moststrategic and practical sense, given your
biomechanics, your psychology,to let go just a little bit.
Let's, let's, let's keepon that for a second.
I think that's, that's really interesting.
The idea of basically switching focuseslike almost like a light switch, right?
Where I go like from play focus like onthe ball to another sort of focus on my
(06:17):
breathing or some other type of thing.
Tapping a paddle, musclerelaxation now that.
Kind of a thing.
You know, I think this is where players,if you tell a player today, right,
we're going to go work on yourthird shot drop for the next hour.
Drilling they're like, they get that.
They're like, yeah, let's go do that.
But then when you say, you know,it's really helpful if you learn how to
(06:39):
switch your focusfrom play focus to non play focus,
let's go work that for 20 minutes.What are you talking about?
I'LL just do it.And so let's talk about that a little bit.
How you build that muscle.Right.
The same way you would with a volley, athird shot, drop, or any, any
physical part of the game.Exactly.
I mean, it's rehearsal.
I mean, you don't do it without rehearsal.
(07:00):
And that's why practice is so important,because in practice, you do it
intentionally and consciouslyso that when you're actually playing,
it's all happening automatically.
You're not thinkingabout it, you're feeling.
And that includes the between the points.
So I think that between the points routineis just one of the absolute most important
(07:24):
things that we can do, particularlyat the recreational level, because you're
not playing as often andhigher level as these people are.
Right.You're not trained.
So any little bit of training that you cando for yourself
is going to really help you enjoy the gamemore and your partner and play better.
(07:44):
Whether you win or lose, you'regoing to have more fun at it.
Yeah, I love that.
I'm going to make a suggestion to thelisteners, and then you
can add anything that I.
If I mess something up, fix it.
If you need to add something out to it.But I'm going to.
I'm going to challengethe listeners right now.
If you're listening to this podcast, thisepisode of podcast, and you're interested
in this idea, why don'tyou take just one game?
(08:07):
One game in the next week.
Not, Not a session.I want to be clear.
One game to 11.
And say in this game to 11, I am going towork on what Coach Peter just described.
I'm going to work on a technique, andit can be anything you want to do.
Coach mentioned tapping the paddleon the, on the back of the fence.
That works great.You can tap your hand on your paddle.
(08:27):
Some players use like a, like a rubberband on their wrist or
something, just to kind of reset.
You can do the Leah Jansen where youtap your thighs in your shoulders.
No judging here.Seriously.
I mean, do whatever works foryou as, as, as Coach Peter said.
But again, try it one gameand then see how that works.
And then you'll have todo it again and again.
But just do one game in the next week.That'd be my suggestion.
(08:48):
Absolutely.And I'll add one thing to that, Tony.
No matter what the point was, whether youplayed a great point or a bad
point, you say, okay, okay.
That doesn't mean I like what happened.
It means I accept its history.
We cannot change that.
All we can change now is how are wegoing to approach the next point.
So.Okay, that.
(09:09):
That really helpscreate a distance between the point just
played and the business at hand, whichis getting ready for the next point.
Right, Agreed.Unless you have a time machine.
Can't do it.Can't do nothing about it anyway.
So try and say okay in your next.
There you go.That's another layer you can put on it.
Right?Exactly.
You can say, okay, tap the paddle.Things like that.
Coach, I do want to.So this, this.
This actually is something that.
(09:30):
I don't know where coach stands on this.I'm really curious.
We're gonna.We're gonna go.
We're gonna go live andtouch the third rail, maybe.
Because I think it'sworth the conversation.
And what reminded me of it was youmentioned Anna Bright and Kay Fay,
who play for the Dallas Flash.
They are two of the most.St.
Louis.I'm sorry, St.
Anna Bray, not Dallas.Dallas is Georgia.
We're in St.Louis.
Tony, I gotta defend my turf.Absolutely correct.
(09:53):
So.
And it's kind of a funny thing because,like, I'll do these shorts
for Major league pickleball.
I am terrible with names.
I keep on calling Tyra Black, Tyra Banks.
And I did it yesterday talkingto somebody and I'm just.
I just.
Anyway, but I just have to acceptwho I am and I'm fine with it.
So, yes, from St.Louis and St.
Louis shock and.
But they're two of the mostoutwardly passionate players, right.
(10:13):
They.They leave the emotions out there.
Another one, another playerthat has a lot of that.
That's doing that a lot right now.
It's Federico Saxrude.
And I'll give you my readand I'd love to hear your.
Your thoughts on it.So my read on it or my.
Not my read?My.
My sense of it is thatsometimes there's like a.
Not Sometimes there'sa red line, like a car.
(10:35):
RPMs, right?And so there's a red line area.
And what I see theseplayers doing sometimes.
AndI really focus on Federico doing it
because I've seen it impact his play is hewill let out this huge roar,
you know, face to the sky,arms to the air, just like.
Like a lot of release.
And then he'll miss a return ofsurf right then very next rally.
(10:58):
And so maybe talk to us alittle bit about that about.
And however you want to approach it.Right.
The idea of like redliningmaybe or going too far in the.
Yeah, we're going to go.Direction.
So what are your thoughts there?
You know, it's Complicated,and we're all different.
And there are people who get motivatedand it actually has a positive,
(11:20):
you know, for them for a while.
I'm not a fan of it.I'm not a fan of it.
From a sports personship standpoint.
Pickleball is a small court, and you'reright in the face, pretty close to people.
And so it seems gamey to me.
I can see a.Come on, come on.
You know, that's fine.
(11:40):
But, you know, I love the quote, thelegendary basketball coach Dean Smith
from the University of North Carolina.
His line was, a lion neverroars after the kill.
All right, that is.That's money right there.
That's it.That's what the episode.
We're going to keeptalking, but that's what.
So, I mean, pump yourselfup, pump your partner up.
(12:03):
Sure.
But you don't need to be in the face,especially when you're playing
social or recreational.
You're not playing pro for money, youknow, so I would agree with that coach.
You just reminded me of something that Ithink it's worth talking about,
even though I'm pivoting the sport.
But I think the conceptis so sound and it's so.
It embodies, I believe,a big part of your philosophy
(12:27):
about the sport that you developed.
The complete, learn, honor.
I don't know if you call it a trilogy.
I'd like to think about trifecta,but, you know, the three principles.
Right.
And so I'm pretty sure that listenerswill be familiar with these two names.
So we just finished watchingtwo great tennis finals.
Right.With Jannik Sinner and Carlos Alcaraz.
(12:47):
I don't want to.I don't want to.
I don't want tospend time on the negative, you
know, like the Sabalenka story.
That's already kind ofput under the bridge.
But when you look at Carlos Alcaraz andJanik Senior, what I see are two athletes
at the top of their gameswho are enjoying the relationship
that they're building with each other.Yes.
They're wholly respectful of each other.Yeah.
(13:08):
You know, if you.If you win this time, I love you.
I love the fact that you're.
That you won and I.And.
And also I'm gonna let you go in a second.
But I also love the factthat they're like, that.
He's pushing me.Yeah.
Because he beat me.Now I gotta do something.
And then the other one saying, oh,you beat me, I'm gonna do something.
Talk about that a little bit.
This idea of, like, the respect and.
Everything that, that is exactly.
(13:30):
You know, it's funny.
I, I saved Carlos' commentsto use of my tennis team coming up, girls
season coming up, because he actuallysaid he was grateful for the loss.
I mean, he lost Wimbledonand he said he was grateful to
sinner for delivering the loss.
(13:50):
Because what you just said, it forcesCarlos to look at his game get better.
Get better.
And to me, that's rooted in.
They both love the game.
They love the gamemore than how they're doing that,
you know, so I, I love that, Tony.Yeah.
And the other thing, Coach, that'sinteresting to me because I've
(14:10):
been playing with this idea.
You and I have talked about it, but thisidea of like all we can do as athletes.
I don't know why they're screaming backthere, but there's apologies for those
background noise, but that's real good.
That's just the nature ofwhere we're at right now.
But the, the,this idea that all you can do as a player,
right, as an athlete is, is to try yourbest to, to play your best or
(14:33):
do your best to play your best.
And so really what we're each trying to dois become the best versions of
ourselves as pickleball players.Yeah.
And so what you're seeing in the,in the sport of tennis, again, just.
And it'll, it'll tie, which is this, youhave two players in the, on the men's side
who are pushing the sport tolevels that has never seen before.
Because when you listen to the, theannouncers who listen, interviews with
(14:55):
Nadal, people like, they're saying they'replaying tennis at a, at a level
that has never been seen before.
And that's in part because eachone is forcing the other one.
That's right to continueto add to the game.
So they're, they now get to play tennisin a way that no one has seen before.
And so I would suggest youfor your own personal journey.
You know, these players behind us, thesepro players, they
(15:16):
understand the same thing.
You know, they're going to get,you know, Ben Johnson gets beat.
When he gets beat, he goesback to the drawing board.
Annalee Waters gets, hates losing.
But when she loses, you know what?
Now she gets hungrier and keeps fightingbecause now she understands that
there's a chance she's going to lose.That's right.
Right.
And that makes you thebest version of yourself.
So it's just something to embrace.
And, you know, it's helpful because, Imean, there's some people listening here
(15:36):
who are quite advanced,you know, Amateur players.
I mean, you're playing at 4-550-level.
You're not earning pro money, butyou're at a, at a pretty high level.
None of us is a master.
I don't like that word.
I like to say, you know, noone ever masters these games.
Pickleball and tennis, no shot isever exactly the same as another.
(15:59):
They're never the same.It's always different.
It's all jazz, so it's alwayscreativity and improvisation.
As you learn more and more,and as you learn more and
more, there's more to learn.
You understand that.
And it should make you even moreand more humble the better you get.
And that's where you can reallyappreciate, again,
(16:21):
maybe the beauty of the sport that youhad when you originally got into it.
And maybe you lost it a little because youstarted pursuing, you know, gold medals
and stuff, which is fineto a point, but then re.
Discover, recapture the original reasonyou fell in love with the sport, which is
to play it and to play it atthe highest level you can.
(16:45):
And for that you've got to have people,opponents, who are going to push you
to go beyond where you are right now.
And so togetheryou create something great.
I can't create a great match withyou if I'm whomping you 11 0.
That's not a great match.
Yeah, there's nothing to celebrate there.
And one thing I would play on it.
I really like the way you framed it.
(17:06):
There's nothing wrong with the pursuitof the gold medal, but I mean, it's.
The pursuit is theoperative word there, right.
The gold medal is a trinket.
It's the pursuit of the.
That's really the, the beauty.Right.
Again, if the pursuit isn't meaningful,doesn't have substance to it,
then the middle is irrelevant.That's right, yeah.
Coach, here's the thing.
(17:26):
So we're here at mlp.
Coach is here with his lovely wife,good pickleball coach of the St.
Louis area, Martha Robert.Find her.
She's amazing.I'll put a link down in the show notes.
If you're in this area,Coach, I'm going to give a quick plug
here and then any last words you have.
So if you want to learn more about CoachPeter's philosophy, his way of thinking
about the sport, and it really will helpyou go deeper in your
(17:49):
understanding, pick up the book.I'm not going to say it now.
It's Compete, Learn, Honor is the main.I know the name of it, but it's.
It's Compete, Learn, Honor is The realprinciple, it's going
to be in the show notes.The book is written in.
In short chapters, and coach andI have talked about this before.
He did that intentionally so you can getthrough a chapter at a time and just kind
of really digest it andnot get bogged down.
And coaches also prepared a playbookthat's specific to pickleball.
(18:12):
Both of those will be in the show notes,and I highly recommend them
to you as resources for you.
Coach, any last words forour players out there?
Anybody listening that wants to continueto just understand their growth as players
or human beings, howeveryou want to approach it?
Yeah, just.
Just whether it's pickleball or tennis orany other sport, just kind of building
(18:33):
on what we were just talking about.
The most important thing for everybody toremember is you are not a better person if
you win, and you are not aworse person if you lose.
Winning and losing says nothing aboutyourself as a compassionate person.
How generous you are, how friendly, yoursense of humor, how loyal, you know, what
(18:53):
a provider you are for yourfamily and your community.
It says nothing about your character.Right.
Winning and losing is a byproductof playing a sport you love.
Focus on.You love playing the sport.
Everything else will fall into place.I love that.
Words of wisdom.We have the line and we have.
Your character is not impugned becauseof results of a pickleball match.
(19:15):
Coach, it's always great to see you.
Appreciate your timesharing with us and we will see you all
on the next episode of pickleball Therapy.
In this special episode of PickleballTherapy, the podcast dedicated
to your pickleball improvement.
This is a special treat foryou and a special treat for me.
I'm here in St.
Louis at major League Pickleball and I'mgoing to introduce the gentleman
sitting next to me in one second.
But this gentleman actually is, is veryinstrumental in the beginning of my own
journey as a, as a moreaware mental athlete.
(00:27):
Right.In the mental part of the game.
I got exposed to Coach Peter's bookkind of early on in my process here.
Right.
I played tennis for a long time, didn'tknow anything about this kind of stuff.
Read Coach Peter's book.
It revolutionized the way I think aboutit, really opened me up
to new ways of thinking.
I have the podcast putting out abook, all thanks to Coach Peter.
And so, Coach Peter, it's such a pleasureto have you as part of the Pickleball
(00:49):
therapy, like history and inthis podcast in particular.
Yeah.Great to be here again.
I always enjoy it whenwe get together, Tony.
So, so, yeah, thanks for having me.
So I'm glad, I'm glad he.
I'm glad Coach Peter gotsomething out of it as well.
So.And just a full introduction.
Coach Peter Scales is a psychologist.
He's also a coach, tennis coach, mostmostly, and then also pickleball.
(01:10):
Now doing some pickleball stuff.
But his development of the framework ofcom Peter, learn, honor has, is just a
really interesting way of approaching it.
And coach, what we were talking aboutdoing is maybe chatting
about some concepts.
We're here at Major League Pickleballagain, so we're watching
some pro action live.
We see the ups and downs and, and, and wewere talking about some
(01:30):
observations you had yesterday.
Why don't you tee us up andwe'll just go from there.
Sure.Yeah.
It's great to be at anMLP event here in St.
Louis.
And yesterdaythere are a few things that I saw that,
you know, a couple of themwill be obvious to people.
One of them may be a little surprisingto think of as part of the mental game.
First one was when we look at we havepremier level and we have
(01:53):
challenger level teams.
I'm just looking at achallenger level match.
Right.Las Vegas, they're the favorites.
They're supposed to win the ChallengerDivision, move up to premier next year.
They lost the first two games.
They're in a hole to D.C.they had to come back, they had to win two
more games, then they hadto win a Dream Breaker.
(02:14):
Okay.
The only way you can do that is to havethe mindset of one point at
a time, you can't rush it.
You have to have patience.
That's mental.
You have to be just absolutely solid,that, hey, this isn't over yet.
They haven't won a third game.
So, you know, most of us don't haveto play best three out of five.
But if you're down 7, 08090, it still isn't over.
(02:39):
It still isn't over.
So as long as you think about one pointat a time, you can make a comeback.
So that, I mean, that'sall a mental process.
Yeah, it's interesting, Coach, how.
And I had a similar observation yesterdayin it was Brooklyn against Chicago Slice,
and I think it was Chicago Sliceserving up, serving 9, 10 down 9, 10.
(02:59):
And the observation I made in the littleshort that I made was
there's no three point shot.
So going nine to 12doesn't make any sense.
Right?
So it's basically right now it's,let's go nine to ten if you can.
Right?
And then from there then you can worryabout 10 to 11 and then 11 to 12.
But you know, yeah, the, the one step at atime or one moment or being in the moment.
Right.
Just focusing on the nextrally, what you can control.
(03:20):
Well, and, and the other part of that,Tony, is this isn't the time for fancy
stuff, you know, fundamentals,just your basics.
Get past the first four shots, get intothe point, don't make a mistake on the
return of serve, get the serve in deep,you know, play your basic fundamentals
and just be solid, you know,and let's talk about that a.
(03:41):
Second coach, because I've been, I've beentalking to players about,
you know, players want tofocus when they're playing.
I, I understand, I fully understand that,you know, and, and I'm going to tee it
up and then you go, you run with it.
But from my perspective, it's impossibleto have full focus all the time.
You basically, you, you've kind of likeraised the bar however
(04:02):
you want to think about.
You just run out of energy however youwant to look at it, but you can't do that.
And so going to what you're saying now,because one of my conversations was again,
I'm not saying like, don't be focused, butdon't, don't kind of kill yourself
with focus until this, this stage.
In other words, the, the nine,ten, you know, I, I need this one.
I, I really need this one.
(04:22):
This is like legitimate.
It's not, we're not at two, one Again,not, you don't throw points away.
But I'm not at 2:1.
I don't have to like hunker down at 2:1.
I need to hunker down at 9, 10 or 10:9 oryou know those critical moments in games
that make the difference betweenthe outcome and the outcomes.
Well, and you can look at it that way.
Another way to look at it isthat there's two games going on.
(04:44):
There's the game when the ball's actuallyin play and then there's the
game between points, right?
And so you can not lose focus but have adifferent focus in your
between point routine.
And that was kind of the secondthing I observed yesterday.
And you can see it with a lot of players.
But I happen to be watching Anna Brightand their women's doubles match
(05:06):
and going back to the wall and tappingwith the paddle whether she won or lost,
whether that team won or lost the point.
And the relentless positivitywith her partner in between points.
Relentless positivity.
It's a different focus.
So you can actually relax the playinglevel focus,
(05:29):
but you have to have the focus on therecovery positive or at least neutral
reaction to the point just played.
What are we going to do on the next point?
Okay, we're back in it, let's go.
And all within, you know,10 seconds or so, right?
So it's, you know, the focus.I agree with you.
You can't possibly maintain100% focus 100% of the time.
So you've got to be clear about for youand singles and for you and your partner
(05:54):
in doubles, when does it make the moststrategic and practical sense, given your
biomechanics, your psychology,to let go just a little bit.
Let's, let's, let's keepon that for a second.
I think that's, that's really interesting.
The idea of basically switching focuseslike almost like a light switch, right?
Where I go like from play focus like onthe ball to another sort of focus on my
(06:17):
breathing or some other type of thing.
Tapping a paddle, musclerelaxation now that.
Kind of a thing.
You know, I think this is where players,if you tell a player today, right,
we're going to go work on yourthird shot drop for the next hour.
Drilling they're like, they get that.
They're like, yeah, let's go do that.
But then when you say, you know,it's really helpful if you learn how to
(06:39):
switch your focusfrom play focus to non play focus,
let's go work that for 20 minutes.What are you talking about?
I'LL just do it.And so let's talk about that a little bit.
How you build that muscle.Right.
The same way you would with a volley, athird shot, drop, or any, any
physical part of the game.Exactly.
I mean, it's rehearsal.
I mean, you don't do it without rehearsal.
(07:00):
And that's why practice is so important,because in practice, you do it
intentionally and consciouslyso that when you're actually playing,
it's all happening automatically.
You're not thinkingabout it, you're feeling.
And that includes the between the points.
So I think that between the points routineis just one of the absolute most important
(07:24):
things that we can do, particularlyat the recreational level, because you're
not playing as often andhigher level as these people are.
Right.You're not trained.
So any little bit of training that you cando for yourself
is going to really help you enjoy the gamemore and your partner and play better.
(07:44):
Whether you win or lose, you'regoing to have more fun at it.
Yeah, I love that.
I'm going to make a suggestion to thelisteners, and then you
can add anything that I.
If I mess something up, fix it.
If you need to add something out to it.But I'm going to.
I'm going to challengethe listeners right now.
If you're listening to this podcast, thisepisode of podcast, and you're interested
in this idea, why don'tyou take just one game?
(08:07):
One game in the next week.
Not, Not a session.I want to be clear.
One game to 11.
And say in this game to 11, I am going towork on what Coach Peter just described.
I'm going to work on a technique, andit can be anything you want to do.
Coach mentioned tapping the paddleon the, on the back of the fence.
That works great.You can tap your hand on your paddle.
(08:27):
Some players use like a, like a rubberband on their wrist or
something, just to kind of reset.
You can do the Leah Jansen where youtap your thighs in your shoulders.
No judging here.Seriously.
I mean, do whatever works foryou as, as, as Coach Peter said.
But again, try it one gameand then see how that works.
And then you'll have todo it again and again.
But just do one game in the next week.That'd be my suggestion.
(08:48):
Absolutely.And I'll add one thing to that, Tony.
No matter what the point was, whether youplayed a great point or a bad
point, you say, okay, okay.
That doesn't mean I like what happened.
It means I accept its history.
We cannot change that.
All we can change now is how are wegoing to approach the next point.
So.Okay, that.
(09:09):
That really helpscreate a distance between the point just
played and the business at hand, whichis getting ready for the next point.
Right, Agreed.Unless you have a time machine.
Can't do it.Can't do nothing about it anyway.
So try and say okay in your next.
There you go.That's another layer you can put on it.
Right?Exactly.
You can say, okay, tap the paddle.Things like that.
Coach, I do want to.So this, this.
This actually is something that.
(09:30):
I don't know where coach stands on this.I'm really curious.
We're gonna.We're gonna go.
We're gonna go live andtouch the third rail, maybe.
Because I think it'sworth the conversation.
And what reminded me of it was youmentioned Anna Bright and Kay Fay,
who play for the Dallas Flash.
They are two of the most.St.
Louis.I'm sorry, St.
Anna Bray, not Dallas.Dallas is Georgia.
We're in St.Louis.
Tony, I gotta defend my turf.Absolutely correct.
(09:53):
So.
And it's kind of a funny thing because,like, I'll do these shorts
for Major league pickleball.
I am terrible with names.
I keep on calling Tyra Black, Tyra Banks.
And I did it yesterday talkingto somebody and I'm just.
I just.
Anyway, but I just have to acceptwho I am and I'm fine with it.
So, yes, from St.Louis and St.
Louis shock and.
But they're two of the mostoutwardly passionate players, right.
(10:13):
They.They leave the emotions out there.
Another one, another playerthat has a lot of that.
That's doing that a lot right now.
It's Federico Saxrude.
And I'll give you my readand I'd love to hear your.
Your thoughts on it.So my read on it or my.
Not my read?My.
My sense of it is thatsometimes there's like a.
Not Sometimes there'sa red line, like a car.
(10:35):
RPMs, right?And so there's a red line area.
And what I see theseplayers doing sometimes.
AndI really focus on Federico doing it
because I've seen it impact his play is hewill let out this huge roar,
you know, face to the sky,arms to the air, just like.
Like a lot of release.
And then he'll miss a return ofsurf right then very next rally.
(10:58):
And so maybe talk to us alittle bit about that about.
And however you want to approach it.Right.
The idea of like redliningmaybe or going too far in the.
Yeah, we're going to go.Direction.
So what are your thoughts there?
You know, it's Complicated,and we're all different.
And there are people who get motivatedand it actually has a positive,
(11:20):
you know, for them for a while.
I'm not a fan of it.I'm not a fan of it.
From a sports personship standpoint.
Pickleball is a small court, and you'reright in the face, pretty close to people.
And so it seems gamey to me.
I can see a.Come on, come on.
You know, that's fine.
(11:40):
But, you know, I love the quote, thelegendary basketball coach Dean Smith
from the University of North Carolina.
His line was, a lion neverroars after the kill.
All right, that is.That's money right there.
That's it.That's what the episode.
We're going to keeptalking, but that's what.
So, I mean, pump yourselfup, pump your partner up.
(12:03):
Sure.
But you don't need to be in the face,especially when you're playing
social or recreational.
You're not playing pro for money, youknow, so I would agree with that coach.
You just reminded me of something that Ithink it's worth talking about,
even though I'm pivoting the sport.
But I think the conceptis so sound and it's so.
It embodies, I believe,a big part of your philosophy
(12:27):
about the sport that you developed.
The complete, learn, honor.
I don't know if you call it a trilogy.
I'd like to think about trifecta,but, you know, the three principles.
Right.
And so I'm pretty sure that listenerswill be familiar with these two names.
So we just finished watchingtwo great tennis finals.
Right.With Jannik Sinner and Carlos Alcaraz.
(12:47):
I don't want to.I don't want to.
I don't want tospend time on the negative, you
know, like the Sabalenka story.
That's already kind ofput under the bridge.
But when you look at Carlos Alcaraz andJanik Senior, what I see are two athletes
at the top of their gameswho are enjoying the relationship
that they're building with each other.Yes.
They're wholly respectful of each other.Yeah.
(13:08):
You know, if you.If you win this time, I love you.
I love the fact that you're.
That you won and I.And.
And also I'm gonna let you go in a second.
But I also love the factthat they're like, that.
He's pushing me.Yeah.
Because he beat me.Now I gotta do something.
And then the other one saying, oh,you beat me, I'm gonna do something.
Talk about that a little bit.
This idea of, like, the respect and.
Everything that, that is exactly.
(13:30):
You know, it's funny.
I, I saved Carlos' commentsto use of my tennis team coming up, girls
season coming up, because he actuallysaid he was grateful for the loss.
I mean, he lost Wimbledonand he said he was grateful to
sinner for delivering the loss.
(13:50):
Because what you just said, it forcesCarlos to look at his game get better.
Get better.
And to me, that's rooted in.
They both love the game.
They love the gamemore than how they're doing that,
you know, so I, I love that, Tony.Yeah.
And the other thing, Coach, that'sinteresting to me because I've
(14:10):
been playing with this idea.
You and I have talked about it, but thisidea of like all we can do as athletes.
I don't know why they're screaming backthere, but there's apologies for those
background noise, but that's real good.
That's just the nature ofwhere we're at right now.
But the, the,this idea that all you can do as a player,
right, as an athlete is, is to try yourbest to, to play your best or
(14:33):
do your best to play your best.
And so really what we're each trying to dois become the best versions of
ourselves as pickleball players.Yeah.
And so what you're seeing in the,in the sport of tennis, again, just.
And it'll, it'll tie, which is this, youhave two players in the, on the men's side
who are pushing the sport tolevels that has never seen before.
Because when you listen to the, theannouncers who listen, interviews with
(14:55):
Nadal, people like, they're saying they'replaying tennis at a, at a level
that has never been seen before.
And that's in part because eachone is forcing the other one.
That's right to continueto add to the game.
So they're, they now get to play tennisin a way that no one has seen before.
And so I would suggest youfor your own personal journey.
You know, these players behind us, thesepro players, they
(15:16):
understand the same thing.
You know, they're going to get,you know, Ben Johnson gets beat.
When he gets beat, he goesback to the drawing board.
Annalee Waters gets, hates losing.
But when she loses, you know what?
Now she gets hungrier and keeps fightingbecause now she understands that
there's a chance she's going to lose.That's right.
Right.
And that makes you thebest version of yourself.
So it's just something to embrace.
And, you know, it's helpful because, Imean, there's some people listening here
(15:36):
who are quite advanced,you know, Amateur players.
I mean, you're playing at 4-550-level.
You're not earning pro money, butyou're at a, at a pretty high level.
None of us is a master.
I don't like that word.
I like to say, you know, noone ever masters these games.
Pickleball and tennis, no shot isever exactly the same as another.
(15:59):
They're never the same.It's always different.
It's all jazz, so it's alwayscreativity and improvisation.
As you learn more and more,and as you learn more and
more, there's more to learn.
You understand that.
And it should make you even moreand more humble the better you get.
And that's where you can reallyappreciate, again,
(16:21):
maybe the beauty of the sport that youhad when you originally got into it.
And maybe you lost it a little because youstarted pursuing, you know, gold medals
and stuff, which is fineto a point, but then re.
Discover, recapture the original reasonyou fell in love with the sport, which is
to play it and to play it atthe highest level you can.
(16:45):
And for that you've got to have people,opponents, who are going to push you
to go beyond where you are right now.
And so togetheryou create something great.
I can't create a great match withyou if I'm whomping you 11 0.
That's not a great match.
Yeah, there's nothing to celebrate there.
And one thing I would play on it.
I really like the way you framed it.
(17:06):
There's nothing wrong with the pursuitof the gold medal, but I mean, it's.
The pursuit is theoperative word there, right.
The gold medal is a trinket.
It's the pursuit of the.
That's really the, the beauty.Right.
Again, if the pursuit isn't meaningful,doesn't have substance to it,
then the middle is irrelevant.That's right, yeah.
Coach, here's the thing.
(17:26):
So we're here at mlp.
Coach is here with his lovely wife,good pickleball coach of the St.
Louis area, Martha Robert.Find her.
She's amazing.I'll put a link down in the show notes.
If you're in this area,Coach, I'm going to give a quick plug
here and then any last words you have.
So if you want to learn more about CoachPeter's philosophy, his way of thinking
about the sport, and it really will helpyou go deeper in your
(17:49):
understanding, pick up the book.I'm not going to say it now.
It's Compete, Learn, Honor is the main.I know the name of it, but it's.
It's Compete, Learn, Honor is The realprinciple, it's going
to be in the show notes.The book is written in.
In short chapters, and coach andI have talked about this before.
He did that intentionally so you can getthrough a chapter at a time and just kind
of really digest it andnot get bogged down.
And coaches also prepared a playbookthat's specific to pickleball.
(18:12):
Both of those will be in the show notes,and I highly recommend them
to you as resources for you.
Coach, any last words forour players out there?
Anybody listening that wants to continueto just understand their growth as players
or human beings, howeveryou want to approach it?
Yeah, just.
Just whether it's pickleball or tennis orany other sport, just kind of building
(18:33):
on what we were just talking about.
The most important thing for everybody toremember is you are not a better person if
you win, and you are not aworse person if you lose.
Winning and losing says nothing aboutyourself as a compassionate person.
How generous you are, how friendly, yoursense of humor, how loyal, you know, what
(18:53):
a provider you are for yourfamily and your community.
It says nothing about your character.Right.
Winning and losing is a byproductof playing a sport you love.
Focus on.You love playing the sport.
Everything else will fall into place.I love that.
Words of wisdom.We have the line and we have.
Your character is not impugned becauseof results of a pickleball match.
(19:15):
Coach, it's always great to see you.
Appreciate your timesharing with us and we will see you all
on the next episode of pickleball Therapy.
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