December 14, 2023 • 45 mins
You are in for a treat with this week's episode. Katrina Dorow's attitude and energy in then face of continuing struggles with breast cancer are breathtaking and inspiring. Sometimes life's biggest trials bear the greatest gifts. Katrina is a breast cancer survivor and spiritual practitioner whose story of diagnosis and spiritual growth will touch your heart. Her work with equine gestalt therapy has been a beacon of light in her journey, and her resilience, strength, and transformation will empower you to face your own struggles with light and love.
Undergoing cancer treatment can be an uphill battle, even more so in the face of the global pandemic. As Katrina and I banter about our respective experiences, we are reminded of the significance of authenticity and compassion, even in the face of life's toughest challenges.
We talk about navigating negativity, faith, family, genetic testing, breast reconstruction choices, and more, leaving you inspired, moved, and hopeful.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi there, welcome to Peace of Work the podcast.
I'm Danielle Tanton.
I'm a nurse, author, coach andsurvivor.
I love inspiring people to livetheir best life, reach for
those big dreams and find joyeven in the pain.
As I wrote my memoir over somany years, trying to make sense
of a story where I was way toooften the bad guy instead of the
(00:28):
hero, I came to understand thatwe are all a piece of work, but
we're also a work in progress,and even in our messiness we are
a work of art too.
All at the very same time, infact, we are all beautifully
unique pieces of one masterpieceWaves in the same ocean.
This podcast will explore thestories and struggles that make
(00:50):
us human, the miracles thatsurround us and all the ways we
work to make sense of it all.
Welcome to Peace of Work thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Hello, welcome back to Peace of Work, the podcast.
I'm your host, danielle Tanton,and today I have with me a good
friend, katrina Dorough, who Imet at a breast cancer retreat
in May of 2022.
We really connected there andwe've kept in touch since then
and I just wanted to have herback.
(01:23):
She's doing some reallyexciting things, katrina.
Why don't you give a littlebackground on who you are and
what you do and what lights youup?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Fantastic.
Thank you.
I'm so delighted to be heretoday.
So I am Katrina Dorough and Iam a spiritual practitioner and
I'm licensed through the Centerfor Spiritual Living.
I've been doing that since 2009, and I'm so excited because, of
(01:57):
course, meeting you on mybreast cancer journey, we both
had this light or this optimismabout what the gift could be in
cancer treatment, and one of thegifts that came out of it for
me is that I connected with anorganization called Touched by a
Horse and have been doingequine gestalt training to
(02:19):
complement my practitionerlicense.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
That sounds amazing.
Can you tell us a little bitabout what is equine gestalt
training?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Oh, thank you.
So basically, it is hosted byinstructor Melissa Pierce and
she is a psychoanalyst who hasworked with gosh, I think 35 or
40 years worth of clients andshe found that the gestalt
(02:49):
method complemented wholenessand healing for people in a way
that was non-diagnostic, a morehumanistic approach to looking
at mental health and yes,there's trauma that occurs in
people's lives.
But in supporting a person, inknowing that all the answers for
(03:11):
healing are within them, we getthe opportunity to support them
.
With the equine component, wepartner with horses, and horses
have this incredible naturalsense where they vibrate at a
high frequency and supporthealing and occurring at a much
faster rate than if we weredoing any kind of talk therapy.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Wow, that just sounds amazing.
I want to participate, are you?
So?
You're still getting certified,right?
You're not completely set up tobe your own practitioner yet.
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I'll be graduating September 2024.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Oh, that is so exciting.
My birthday's in September, somaybe I'll have to come do your
thing.
So Katrina's in Colorado, whichis one of my favorite places.
So I was thrilled I becameaware of this organization that
we met through called ImageReborn, where we did that
(04:08):
retreat together, and they offerfree breast cancer retreats to
breast cancer survivors of alltypes.
So that was an amazing just aweekend, but I flew up to
Colorado and met you and someother wonderful women and just
had this beautiful, restfulretreat.
It wasn't anything too deep ortoo crazy, it was just a time of
(04:30):
relaxation For me.
It was right in the middle ofgraduating from nursing school
and about to take my NCLEX andbecome a nurse, so it was really
good timing for me.
But that sounds neat to go evendeeper into that healing
process Very cool.
So tell us a little bit aboutyou.
(04:52):
Know, I've had a lot of guestson my podcast talking about
different aspects of the breastcancer journey.
I loved what you said about howwe both had like a light and
sort of a positive energy aboutus and I think that is what
attracted me to you, because Idid in some way see this
diagnosis as a gift, as anopportunity, as I kind of see
(05:17):
everything that happens to meand I think you sort of had that
same idea.
So tell me a little bit aboutyour diagnosis and kind of how
it landed and what was happeningand what's happened since then
for you.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Definitely yeah.
So my cancer journey wasslightly different than yours.
I was scheduled to go in andhave my mammogram on March 13th
of 2020, and it got canceledwhen the whole world shut down
for COVID.
I was on the wait list and,since there weren't a lot of
(05:50):
high risk factors that we wereaware of, it wasn't until June
of 2021 that I actually got infor the mammogram, and what was
interesting about that day isthat they tell you what the
process is going to be like.
We're going to do the mammogram, you're going to sit for your
(06:10):
results in the waiting room andthen we'll release you.
And, as it turned out for me,the radiologist then came in,
and then other specialists camein.
They immediately did theultrasound and they said have
you eaten anything today?
If not, we're going to do thebiopsy right now.
(06:31):
And then they signed me up fora clinical trial and said
because of your genetic makeup,is there a possibility that we
can go ahead and take your bloodand the tissue and submit it to
multiple organizations to bestudied?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Wow, katrina, this is all in one day.
Yes, I did not know this story.
That is amazing.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I can't even imagine they still hadn't told me you
have cancer, but I had assumedthat with all of this.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
They probably just assumed that you kind of
understood that, and that'sunbelievable.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
The final diagnosis didn't end up coming until a few
days later, so I think it was aThursday when I went in and it
wasn't until June 30th that Iactually got the diagnosis.
I was at the park with a newperson and her kids and our kids
were playing together.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I guess we have that in common being at the park when
we get the diagnosis.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
And it was so fascinating because this new
woman that I was speaking to istotally empowered and amazing
and her child and her motherboth had had a type of cancer,
so it was almost like divinely.
I was supported with thisperson to talk through what it
(07:53):
would be like and I stayed supercalm, went home, hosted a
birthday party for my stepdadand all of our family were
around.
And then, of course, the bigquestion of how did it go?
And I was trying to keep ithidden from my family and just
live a normal life and out ofhonesty, I directly told my
(08:16):
family yeah, we'll be meetingwith the oncologist to move
forward.
And yeah, so I kept positive,knowing that I can't really
control the outcome, but I cancontrol my attitude, that's true
, it's about the only thing youcan control in any situation.
Exactly, and so I really lookedat it is what milestones can I
(08:38):
celebrate?
What can I acknowledge aspositive?
I feel like the doctors andnurses showing up to do
treatment and taking care of me,and all the right people coming
together.
Everything synchronisticallycame together to support me.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
It's beautiful.
Yeah, yeah, it's such a.
It's so funny how you know you.
We've talked about how you're.
You're an introvert, I'm anextrovert.
But even being an extrovert, itis really hard to spit out the
words I have cancer to yourfamily or to anyone it's.
It's because it doesn't seemreal.
It's like I Mean I have likethey're gonna do this clinical
(09:22):
trial, they're gonna I'm talkingto the oncologist yeah, it's
easy to say those things, butthen I have cancer.
I mean, like this morning Ididn't have cancer, or I didn't
know I had cancer and now I'msomeone that has cancer.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
It's like Weird, you know well, and I think that
people's reaction to it also iskind of weird, because there's
so much fear around it.
Mm-hmm and I know that thereare different stages of cancer
and different types of cancerthat all have different impact.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
But the reaction that people have, I think, was the
the opportunity for me to Standin my truth, be patient, be
grounded, as other peopleresponded to that diagnosis that
is such a beautiful Responseand you know it's so easy to get
to be very hurt by people'sresponses or lack thereof, by
(10:15):
the things they say that areinadvertently hurtful, and I
think the fact that you justtook that road and took that
Thought about it in that wayright away is really beautiful
and really shows you know thatyou're beautiful.
Light oh.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Thank you.
I truly believe that we allhave those experiences that
we've, that we've had, thatwe've grown from, and People who
haven't gone through a cancerdiagnosis and all of the
treatment.
They just don't have a conceptof what that would be like.
And it's not that there'sanything bad or wrong or the
(10:54):
things that they say areintended to be hurtful.
They just don't know and youdon't know, you can't do
anything about.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's just like, yeah, loving
people enough to realize thatyou know they're, they mean well
, they're not trying to hurt youand people don't know what to
say.
I had a whole episode aboutthis, about you know what, not
to say what to someone who hascancer, with another friend of
mine who really, who really, um,you know, has gone down that
(11:21):
road in her professional lifewanting to, wanting to really
focus in on that it's.
It's just people don't knowwhat to say and they're they've.
We even even like in myprofessional education as a
nurse, we have so much educationaround trying, you know how to
talk to somebody who'sexperiencing a loss or Whatever
(11:42):
it may be.
It's.
It doesn't come easy.
Whether you're, whether you'resomebody who likes to talk or
whether you're not somebody wholikes to talk, it still doesn't
come easy.
Sometimes you don't know whatto say.
What did you?
Speaker 3 (11:55):
love.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I love that episode.
Oh, thanks for listening.
What did you?
What are some things thatpeople said to you or didn't say
to you, or that you wish theysaid, or how did you deal with
some of those?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Share some of those experiences with us, so most of
my journey, I Basically set theframework of how to tell people,
how to respond, and so I would,you know, say, yes, I'm going
through cancer treatment andeverything is going great.
And you know, or I'm totallysupported by my team and tried
(12:32):
to frame it Optimistically.
I would say the mostuncomfortable situation I have
had was After I had had thethree surgeries, you know, the
limb surgery, the doublemastectomy and the hysterectomy.
I had gone through, you know,chemotherapy and radiation, and
(12:57):
so I had no hair and I had abaseball hat on and was sitting
in the radiation lobby.
The radiation lobby and anolder man said to me how is it
going through this transition?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I remember this story .
I forgot about this story.
You shared this on the retreatand.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I, I wanted to see the best in the situation.
So I said well, the transitionfrom, you know, chemotherapy is
not quite complete, buttransition into radiation and
having chemotherapy andradiation at the same time has
been really difficult and um youdidn't?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
you're funny, katrina .
How did you take that?
Well, the gentleman was likeconfused, and so I felt like I
legitimately thought you weredoing a gender transformation,
exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
And so then you know, of course, I was, like you know
, being a strong, powerful womanin this time, you know, and I
tried to help the poor guyunderstand I'm not transitioning
, and uh, so you know, we had alittle bit of that moment and it
took everything inside of menot to feel completely
(14:12):
devastated by the words, butthat's when I got to embody that
personal power within me.
That is only.
I know the truth of myexperience and that it's not my
job to explain to others.
It's my job to be compassionateand educate and support people
in, you know, expanding theirconsciousness, rather than me
(14:36):
trying to explain my choices ormy experience.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
That is quotable.
Right there I'm gonna have topull that out.
That was beautiful you you area beautiful soul.
That's amazing.
I totally agree with that.
Yeah, oh, what a beautifulstory.
I love it.
So did he ever Figure it outthat you're, that you're just a
woman going through cancertreatment, not someone
transitioning to a differentgender?
Speaker 3 (15:01):
well, lucky for me, the nurse came and pulled me
back and, um, you know, gave himan opportunity to sit and think
.
But I think a lot of times wemake assumptions, assumptions
about ourselves, assumptionsabout other people.
And that was one of thoseassumptions where, you know, I
made assumptions about him andhe made assumptions about me,
(15:22):
and we'll never fully know thetruth.
But if we stay authentic, thenthere's a better chance that we
can understand one another andcome to common ground.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Ah, isn't that true about the world?
Yeah, wow, that's a beautifulstory.
So tell us about your journey.
So my, with my, in my case, Ihad, you know, very early stage,
stage zero.
So I chose to have a doublemastectomy, which I didn't need
to have.
I could have had just alumpectomy, but to me, you know,
(15:52):
taking a lump out and thenhaving radiation and then having
a deform, you know still havingsaggy breast, cancer, hiding
breasts, you know, dense breasts, was not attractive to me.
I I chose a double mastectomy,um, and I didn't have to do any
other treatment because mine wasso early stage and because Of
(16:12):
doing that, you know, radicaldouble mastectomy, um, I just
did a reconstruction a couplemonths later.
What was your journey, though?
I know a lot of times they dochemo before, after.
I know you kind of.
When I met you, you had veryshort hair, you had just
finished a round of chemo.
So tell us about, like, theprogression of what you did
first and what it's different inevery person, I know.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yes, so, um, originally we weren't.
We didn't know what type ofcancer it was, um because um of
where it was in the breast andthe lymph involvement.
So my first surgery wasactually to see how severe the
cancer was, and so I had thatimmediately.
Um, you know, I think gosh theseventh or or somewhere around
(17:00):
early july of that year, umlater on in that month, on the
29th, I started um chemotherapyand there were a lot of
decisions in the chemotherapyprocess in my situation, because
you know they had said oh well,maybe you can do a cold cap to
keep your hair, and With itbeing in the middle of covet it
(17:22):
was a little bit differentbecause there was nobody to help
you put the cold cap on.
And so I made the decision yeah,and without the extra support.
You know going to all yourappointments by yourself,
without another person.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
That was one of the hardest parts of covet being in
health care, I saw that a lot,you know.
Just yeah, not being able tohave the extra person there or
people there, because it was notallowed because of, you know,
disease prevention.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
And then the way that they had it set up is that we
had to be six feet away fromanother patient, so getting
scheduled for infusionsespecially when you have like a
six hour infusion without thecold cap and then it would go up
to about eight or nine hours Iknew that by doing the cold cap
it would prevent someone elsefrom being able to get cancer
(18:11):
treatment.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Oh, my God, so you are such a thoughtful, wonderful
person.
Oh, thank you.
So you sacrificed your own hairfor others.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yes, and I realized that someone's life was way more
important than how I looked,and so that was the first
decision I made, and so Istarted the infusions and I met
a wonderful nurse whoconsistently would come and
check on me, but they wereovertaxed with everything, and
(18:47):
so I was really grateful forthis nurse who every time would
mirror my positivity and I wouldsay I'm going to live for
another 45 years and she wouldsay, yes, you are, and it was
just a really positiveenvironment and I know that the
tone for that.
But it also helped that shereciprocated that.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Totally.
I bet you affected her lifejust as much as she affected
your life being a nurse.
It's really special when youhave patients who have a spark
like you do.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Thank you.
Yeah, she is absolutelyfabulous and I loved how so many
doctors and nurses came in tobe with me at different times.
So when I went in for my doublemastectomy, it was quite
interesting because the COVIDnumbers were so high that I had
to check in at a certain timeearly in the morning Prior to
(19:46):
the COVID numbers being taken,and then my surgeon actually
worked out getting a pediatricanesthesiologist, and then I had
a neonatal nurse come in andthey were doing a favor to the
doctor in order to squeeze me in.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
That's really cool.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
They made accommodations so that I could
go through and get the surgerythat I needed, and they didn't
have to show up during themiddle of a pandemic and go to
work and risk their lives andyet they did, and I am so
grateful for every person thatsupported me during my treatment
.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
That's so beautiful and so meaningful that you
mentioned them.
Speaking of mentioning them, doyou want to or do you feel
comfortable mentioning any ofyour doctors or the
organizations that helped youalong the way?
Because one thing I've beensurprised by is I've mentioned a
couple of my doctors and I'vehad people reach out and tell me
(20:48):
that they listened to thispodcast episode or that podcast
episode and they actually madean appointment with my surgeon
and now they're going to goahead and have their treatment
through them.
So if you want to share it andfeel comfortable and we're happy
with anybody in Colorado tellus you never know, you might
listen.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
So I was at, or I still am.
I'm getting an infusiontomorrow.
My oncologist is Dr Vashi andshe's at Rocky Mountain Cancer
at the Skyridge location.
She is absolutely wonderful.
She radiates.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
What city are you in?
What city are you in inColorado?
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Oh, okay, so I live in Aurora, colorado, so south of
Denver.
Okay, cool, yes.
Then my surgeon was Dr Moore,and she was amazing, absolutely
amazing.
She always looked at makingsure that wholeness was at the
(21:46):
center of the treatment, and soshe would often ask me so what
would need to happen in thissurgery in order for you to feel
whole?
What a wonderful question Inever been asked that by a
doctor.
Well, I loved it because what Ilearned about myself which I
didn't know before going throughtreatment, is that I have this
(22:07):
incredible relationship withspirit source God.
I have wholeness in myself andmy soul and my spirit and how I
connect with myself.
I have this wholeness in myfamily unit, which is great, and
then having that extend to thedoctors and nurses in the
community really felt like agood fit for me and so I
(22:30):
realized, oh, I don't need toworry about the hair because
hopefully it will grow back.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
I'm grateful it did.
It looks beautiful, by the way,I love it.
I love the new curls.
Did you have curls before?
Speaker 3 (22:41):
I did it was just much longer.
Yeah, and in terms of thedecision around having surgery
and having a plastic surgeon, Ihad a wonderful plastic surgeon
and I did not actually getplastic surgery because it was
in the middle of COVID and whatthat would have required was
(23:07):
gosh, how do I say this?
It would have required way moresurgeries than what my body
probably could have or shouldhave handled.
And when I told him that I wasvery athletic, I wanted to heal
as quickly as possible, live ina place of vitality, be able to
be with my kids he was veryhonest with me and said you know
(23:29):
, katrina, I don't think thatgetting surgery is going to be
your best interest.
We would need to probably dosomewhere between 20 and 29
surgeries to get it right.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Wow, why?
Speaker 3 (23:40):
That's crazy.
Well, because I had broken myribs and the blood flow of the
nerves that would have needed tobe available in order to have a
successful implant surgerywasn't a good idea.
Wow, being able to coordinatewith all of the medical team
during the middle of COVID wasgoing to be a challenge.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
These are things that people don't even understand.
Don't even realize.
That's amazing, Wow.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Yeah, so for me, I'm actually flat.
I have no nipples, no boobs,I'm a rib cage and it doesn't
even look like a man's chestbecause it's just the rib cage.
It's a concave almost, and it'sfine.
It's not like I'm flashingpeople or anything.
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I was able to get back to being athletic and
probably a lot less things toworry about as far as your
athleticism.
Do you even have to wear asports bra, or do you wear one
just because it feels weird ifyou don't?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I wear one because it feels weird if I don't, but I
don't need one.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Do you use prosthetic breasts or no, nothing.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Well, I have to be honest with you.
I went and I got the mostamazing.
They took my measurements whenI went to the plastic surgeon
and those were given to thewoman who does prosthetics and
they did a pair that wassupposedly the same size and
everything.
They are ginormous.
I got so comfortable withworking out without them and
(25:17):
sleeping without them thatsometimes I realized that, holy
cow, they're in the way.
I ended up ordering a smallersize and they're still ginormous
.
Ginormous, I like that word.
I tend to wear just a tank topwith a slight little pad in it.
(25:39):
That's really mild, that I justcan move, enjoy life with hike
bike to athletic things withoutthem getting in the way.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
That sounds actually very peaceful, very nice.
I didn't go that route.
I considered it.
I really didn't consider it atthe time, it was a passing
thought, but I wasn't ready forthat.
Who knows, maybe down the lineit's a continuing work of
(26:10):
progress, but work in progress,that's very brave and very cool.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I was amazed and delighted by how many companies
have come out with completelycute clothes that support
somebody in being flat.
That's awesome.
I've been grateful.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
What are some of those brands?
I am not aware of that.
There's so many things outthere.
It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Oh my gosh.
My favorite bathing suitcompany is Hapari, because you
can put in prosthetics or notput in prosthetics.
They have a high neck whichcovers my port.
I can go out in public and nothave people looking at my port.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
That's protruding from my chest.
Do you still have a port inthere?
Yeah, you're still gettinginfusions.
You're still getting infusions.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
You're still getting infusions, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Why is it that you needed to continue to get
infusions?
What was the progression?
I interrupted the story.
Sorry about that.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Oh, no Apology necessary.
Some people need a little bitmore support, especially when
they have a more advanced stageof breast cancer.
At this point I'm not quite tothe maintenance.
I'm hoping to get to themaintenance phase this spring.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
It's been a long time four years, huh, or more, no,
two and a half, okay, I don'tknow why, my math is off.
Mine was four years ago that Iwas diagnosed.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, I just support whatever it looks like.
I do love the naturopathicoptions that I've used to
compliment.
I have the absolute bestacupuncturist and I go and get
rakey regularly.
(28:07):
I have a healing touch provider.
It's just been really great tohave these kinds of resources to
support me through thetreatment also.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
That's wonderful.
Yeah, that's really awesome.
Where do we want to talk aboutnext?
What questions do you have forme or what do you want to share?
Okay, I think I have a coupleof questions.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Of course I read your book when it first came out and
then when it went on off of all.
I was so excited.
I've listened to your book acouple of times.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Oh my gosh a couple of times.
That's so awesome.
Thank you for listening andsupporting me in that way.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
My pleasure, my favorite part, is, honestly,
your journey through faith.
I know that I am one that lovesGod, loves faith, and I love
the Jewish background and, ofcourse, moving into Christianity
, I am from a predominantlyJewish family from my mom's side
(29:04):
and we actually have aencyclopedia of our family
history that goes back forgenerations Wow.
And, of course, getting thegenetic testing of what looks
like being from Jewish descentwas important.
The question that I had for youis did you have any kind of
(29:26):
genetic component to your breastcancer?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
So I did do all the genetic testing, and it all came
back negative.
What's interesting, though, isthat my mom had the exact same
kind of cancer about 10 yearsalmost exactly 10 years before
me.
So it's not genetic based onany of the current markers that
they're testing for, and yet mymom and I both had the exact
same kind of cancer.
So I don't know.
(29:49):
I am also a Vashkenazi, jewishdescent, but I don't have the
Brachagin or any other cancermarkers.
In fact, one of the most, oneof the most, one of the funnest
days of my cancer journey was Iwent to see the.
So you have a.
I had a surgical oncologist whodid the double mastectomy, and
then I had a.
She wanted me to see a medicaloncologist after the surgery
(30:12):
just to review.
She's like I don't think you'regoing to have to do anything
ongoing because of you know howearly stage you were, but you
want, I want you to just meetwith him, and he said basically
nope, everything came backnegative.
I don't have to ever see youagain.
Maybe I'll see you in thegrocery store, but that's it.
He was a wonderful doctor too,dr Curley in North Scottsdale.
(30:32):
I would highly recommend him.
I was almost a little bit sadthat I didn't get to keep going
to his office because he wasjust so warm and wonderful.
But what was I saying?
I can't remember what I broughtthat up for.
But no, that's.
What's really interesting isthat they all the things they
test for all the other types ofcancer.
I don't have any of thosemarkers, but I mean, I don't
(30:56):
know, like still has to be alittle bit genetic as far as I'm
concerned.
I think they just don't knowthey don't have all the markers
yet, they don't know everythingthey're looking for.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Right, and I know that some of the genetic markers
are more popular than othergenetic markers.
So what we found in our line,in lineage, was the PMS2 gene
mutation, and so that wasinteresting because I had never
heard of such a thing.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, tell us about that.
What's that?
Speaker 3 (31:26):
I don't know much, but if you are Jewish and you
have a genetic marker, that's acomponent to keep in mind.
The other question I wanted toask you is how does this impact
your relationship with yourgirls and being a parent and
going through cancer treatment?
How did that show up in yourparenting?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Well, it was really interesting because I, just like
you, I really took.
I immediately shifted to kindof almost like a.
I wanted to be very careful howI presented it to the world and
to my family and I presented itlike oh, this is awesome, this
is no big deal.
Mommy's gonna face this, youknow.
(32:05):
Yes, I have cancer.
But because of mylightheartedness about it in the
way that I presented it to themand to everybody else in my
life, they never really wereworried about me dying or
anything like that.
That never even crossed theirmind because truly it really was
.
I was not in danger.
(32:26):
I mean, you know, it stillcould come up.
We all could get cancer at anytime of our life that
metastasizes and is much moreserious.
I have a dear friend who justgot a diagnosis years later
after being cancer free.
So, but that cancer, I don'tthink they.
The ages of my kids were suchthat it was a little awkward.
(32:49):
Actually, my littlest one, ariaoh, I don't usually use her
name in my book I changed thename, oh, but anyway, my
littlest daughter was with me atthe park.
It was just me and her alone atthe park when I got that
diagnosis.
She was the very first person Itold she we would take baths
together.
I mean, she saw my, my breastsall the time and she knew that I
was taking a look.
(33:10):
I was going to the doctor, I'dgone for a biopsy, she had been
with me at the biopsy because ofan ouchie in my booby, and so
when I found out, I told her youknow what they found that the
ouchie in my booby is is the badstuff that they were worried
about.
It's called cancer, but it'sokay, they're going to fix it
and blah, blah, blah, and so,like the way I presented it was
just, you know, we're just goingto take care of it.
(33:31):
And I think, if anything, myolder girls were maybe a little
embarrassed about it, and it wasalso there was, you know it was
.
It was an awkward time.
My oldest was 13 and my, youknow, the second one was 11 and
then my little one was threewhen I was diagnosed, and so it
was very interesting ages, youknow, for that to happen.
(33:54):
And so, yeah, I think, I think,if anything, my family and my
both my immediate family and myextended family just sort of
roll their eyes at the way I'mso boldly like share my life
with the world.
I think that it offends them insome ways not not necessarily
(34:15):
offends, but they just don'talways understand it.
And they don't understand why Ido that.
And you know they see it in anegative light and I think that
the reason I do it is because Ihave seen how it connects with
people, how it touches otherpeople, how it means something
(34:36):
to other people.
I'm going to keep doing it,yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Well in your story and meeting you at Imagery Born.
It was inspiring.
You had the medical knowledgeand the experiential experience
of having cancer.
That was gosh I don't know whatthe word is.
It really ignited in me to takemore advocacy for myself.
(35:05):
I, of course, presented it tomy kids, very similar to you.
It's fine, we're great and wasvery positive.
I mean we did a boob voyageparty to self-need.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
I didn't do anything like that and I wish I had.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
A getting wiggie with it, where, of course, we had to
have wigs for everyone.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
That's so fun.
You did so many fun things andyou continue to do so many fun
things.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
I tried to make it fun and, after an extended
period of time seeking resourcesto psychologically help the
mental health of my familymembers was necessary.
There were some great kidsprograms Camp Kessum.
I don't know if you've heard ofit, but it's a camp for kids
(35:56):
that supports them and each ofthe kids that go to this camp
it's all over the nation it'sfor kids whose parents have
cancer.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
That's so amazing.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
They came back empowered and changed and
compassionate, and had a betterunderstanding of what that
journey is like for people.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
That's wonderful.
There are so many amazingresources.
I will say I sometimes feelalmost a little guilty because
breast cancer gets so much press.
I guess there's so manyresources and programs for
people, women and their familiesthat are experiencing breast
(36:37):
cancer.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
It's pretty cool.
It is very cool, yes.
I'm very supportive becauseit's a tough journey and that
extra support really helps.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
So, on my, as far as me, I was going to ask you.
So you did that.
Bon Voyage, boob Voyage party.
That is really a cute idea.
I didn't think of doinganything like that.
What were your thoughts aboutthat?
What were your feelings aboutthat?
Was it a group of friends thatdecided to do that for you, or
how did that come about?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Yes, a group of friends decided to do that for
me.
Of course, I have a reallysupportive mother.
She hosted it at her house,along with a couple of my
friends.
The hardest party moment for mewas when my parents and friends
invited over a group of peopleto celebrate my last day at
(37:33):
chemo and I went in for my lasttreatment and I was so excited
and I discovered that wasn't mylast chemo, and so, of course, I
came home and my support systemis there.
All ready to celebrate, and youyes, and so that was one of the
(37:53):
moments where it was hard.
But if you communicate whatyour needs are and sometimes
that's harder easier said thandone, because looking within and
saying, gosh, what do I reallyneed, what does my soul need,
what does my mind need, whatdoes my body need Sometimes it
gets confusing because we wantto be that same person we were
(38:14):
before treatment.
We want to be energized,enthusiastic, positive,
optimistic all of thosecharacteristics that we always
were.
And sometimes in those momentswe have to speak up and say,
gosh, I'm not okay.
Right now I feel devastatedthat I still am going to be
doing another year of treatmentand then after that chemo didn't
(38:37):
work at the level they neededit to.
Going on to a third chemo was alittle bit more challenging
than I think any of us expected.
But being able to communicatethose difficult things and
having people be open to stillwanting to support you and love
you in that truth is reallyimportant for cancer survivors.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
That is so important for cancer survivors and really
for anyone.
I think if the rest of us werehalf as emotionally mature as
you are, this world would be amuch better place.
I mean, how beautiful to beable to recognize how difficult
it is to communicate your needsor even know what your needs and
wants and desires are.
(39:19):
I think that if we would all bea little bit more in touch with
our own emotional selves, wemight have better results in
everything we do.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Well, I think that one of the things I noticed from
meeting you and also ourfriendship and the book and your
podcast is that you have a realcompassion for people and that
you're present with them and youlisten to their stories and you
can understand and relate tothem.
One of the gifts that I've hadin my life is those experiential
(39:54):
moments of working in differenttypes of situation, with trauma
, whether it be working for therape crisis center, working for
the suicide prevention, theworld ministry of prayer, taking
death calls at a mortuary,working with inmates or the
(40:16):
juvenile system.
In all of these experiences,what I've learned is that if you
show up open and in a place oflove, no matter what the grief
is, no matter what the situationis, whether it's cancer or
somebody just lost a familymember or, like you mentioned,
(40:37):
the man with the toe who wasgetting amputated I think if we
show up and ask the question ofwhat is this like for you,
whoever it is is going to answerand we don't have to fix
anything, we don't have tochange anything, we don't have
to do anything except be presentwith where that person is.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
I mean, yes, that is the secret to life, Absolutely.
I totally agree, Totally agree.
Beautiful.
Thank you for what you saw inme too.
I think that's what life is allabout, honestly we all.
Otherwise, we're all goingaround doing our own thing just
(41:18):
stumbling around.
I think when we can connect andwe can see ourselves in other
people and when we can see themin us, that's meaning those
connections and that compassionis everything to me.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, and we never know who needs to hear that
story or know that aspect of ourlives.
With you sharing your bookcover with me at Imagery Born,
it was exactly the inspirationthat I needed that day.
And oh, there's a life, there'sa career after cancer, there's
something you can create aftercancer, and I just didn't know
(41:56):
that was possible.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Wow that you saying that just lit me up inside.
I mean the fact I forgot that Igot the book cover.
I received a copy, a picture ofthe book cover, as I was there
and I showed it to you on myphone as we were on a little
hike that morning.
I forgot all about that.
So you were one of the firstpeople to see my book cover and
(42:19):
that just showing you my bookcover would have such an impact
on you is just so meaningful.
Because you know you write abook and it's a painful and time
consuming and frustratingexperience a lot of the time.
And then you put it out in theworld and you know it connects
with some people.
Some people hate it.
Most people have had a positivereaction.
(42:40):
But just to think that even thecover, even just writing the
book, made a difference in yourlife is so, so meaningful and it
encourages me to keep going.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
The state that I was in on that day was okay.
My oncologist said I'm notgoing to be able to work and
that limitation was getting medown.
And then you showed up with allthis vibrance and all this
excitement, show me the bookcover and talk about, you know,
creating a career after cancer.
(43:12):
And so it planted a seed in methat, no matter what I'm going
to, you know, create a life,create a career after cancer.
And you inspired me to becomean entrepreneur based on that
and I've been working on mywriting and being authentic in
my own being, and it's going toshow up completely different
(43:34):
than how you have.
But I was so grateful that youplanted that seed of hope and
that possibility for me bysharing your book cover while we
were on our hike.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Wow, thank you, katrina, for sharing that with
me.
That is so meaningful.
Well, thank you for being herewith me today.
This has just been an amazingconversation.
I knew I wanted you on mypodcast.
I really didn't know why, butnow I know why.
I think you have such a light,such a joy to share with the
world, and you know however manydays we have left, just keep
(44:05):
doing it, keep being you.
Thank you for listening toPiece of Work, the podcast.
The book is available on Amazon.
Piece of Work a memoir.
We're all a piece of work, awork in progress and a work of
art.
Please like, share, subscribeto this podcast so that others
can find it.
You will never know how muchthat means to like an
independent content creator.
(44:27):
Author.
My website is danieltantonecom.
All of my social medias are atdanieltantone.
And what about you, katrina?
Is there anything that?
Do you have a website?
Where can people find?
Speaker 3 (44:38):
you, I do KatrinaDorocom, and that is
spelled D-O-R-O-Wcom, and thename of my business is mainly
divine, like the main of a horsedivinecom, beautiful, beautiful
.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
I can't wait to experience your equestrian
gestalt therapy.
Is that what it's called?
I can't wait.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
Yes, I am an equine gestaltist, thank you.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Okay, I am so looking forward to that and, in the
meantime, I just thank you.
Thank you for connecting, thankyou for sharing your story with
us, and I wish you all the best.
Go forth with light and love,thank you.
You're awesome, thank you.
Hi there, welcome to Peace of Work the podcast.
I'm Danielle Tanton.
I'm a nurse, author, coach andsurvivor.
I love inspiring people to livetheir best life, reach for
those big dreams and find joyeven in the pain.
As I wrote my memoir over somany years, trying to make sense
of a story where I was way toooften the bad guy instead of the
(00:28):
hero, I came to understand thatwe are all a piece of work, but
we're also a work in progress,and even in our messiness we are
a work of art too.
All at the very same time, infact, we are all beautifully
unique pieces of one masterpieceWaves in the same ocean.
This podcast will explore thestories and struggles that make
(00:50):
us human, the miracles thatsurround us and all the ways we
work to make sense of it all.
Welcome to Peace of Work thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Hello, welcome back to Peace of Work, the podcast.
I'm your host, danielle Tanton,and today I have with me a good
friend, katrina Dorough, who Imet at a breast cancer retreat
in May of 2022.
We really connected there andwe've kept in touch since then
and I just wanted to have herback.
(01:23):
She's doing some reallyexciting things, katrina.
Why don't you give a littlebackground on who you are and
what you do and what lights youup?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Fantastic.
Thank you.
I'm so delighted to be heretoday.
So I am Katrina Dorough and Iam a spiritual practitioner and
I'm licensed through the Centerfor Spiritual Living.
I've been doing that since 2009, and I'm so excited because, of
(01:57):
course, meeting you on mybreast cancer journey, we both
had this light or this optimismabout what the gift could be in
cancer treatment, and one of thegifts that came out of it for
me is that I connected with anorganization called Touched by a
Horse and have been doingequine gestalt training to
(02:19):
complement my practitionerlicense.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
That sounds amazing.
Can you tell us a little bitabout what is equine gestalt
training?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Oh, thank you.
So basically, it is hosted byinstructor Melissa Pierce and
she is a psychoanalyst who hasworked with gosh, I think 35 or
40 years worth of clients andshe found that the gestalt
(02:49):
method complemented wholenessand healing for people in a way
that was non-diagnostic, a morehumanistic approach to looking
at mental health and yes,there's trauma that occurs in
people's lives.
But in supporting a person, inknowing that all the answers for
(03:11):
healing are within them, we getthe opportunity to support them
.
With the equine component, wepartner with horses, and horses
have this incredible naturalsense where they vibrate at a
high frequency and supporthealing and occurring at a much
faster rate than if we weredoing any kind of talk therapy.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Wow, that just sounds amazing.
I want to participate, are you?
So?
You're still getting certified,right?
You're not completely set up tobe your own practitioner yet.
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I'll be graduating September 2024.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Oh, that is so exciting.
My birthday's in September, somaybe I'll have to come do your
thing.
So Katrina's in Colorado, whichis one of my favorite places.
So I was thrilled I becameaware of this organization that
we met through called ImageReborn, where we did that
(04:08):
retreat together, and they offerfree breast cancer retreats to
breast cancer survivors of alltypes.
So that was an amazing just aweekend, but I flew up to
Colorado and met you and someother wonderful women and just
had this beautiful, restfulretreat.
It wasn't anything too deep ortoo crazy, it was just a time of
(04:30):
relaxation For me.
It was right in the middle ofgraduating from nursing school
and about to take my NCLEX andbecome a nurse, so it was really
good timing for me.
But that sounds neat to go evendeeper into that healing
process Very cool.
So tell us a little bit aboutyou.
(04:52):
Know, I've had a lot of guestson my podcast talking about
different aspects of the breastcancer journey.
I loved what you said about howwe both had like a light and
sort of a positive energy aboutus and I think that is what
attracted me to you, because Idid in some way see this
diagnosis as a gift, as anopportunity, as I kind of see
(05:17):
everything that happens to meand I think you sort of had that
same idea.
So tell me a little bit aboutyour diagnosis and kind of how
it landed and what was happeningand what's happened since then
for you.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Definitely yeah.
So my cancer journey wasslightly different than yours.
I was scheduled to go in andhave my mammogram on March 13th
of 2020, and it got canceledwhen the whole world shut down
for COVID.
I was on the wait list and,since there weren't a lot of
(05:50):
high risk factors that we wereaware of, it wasn't until June
of 2021 that I actually got infor the mammogram, and what was
interesting about that day isthat they tell you what the
process is going to be like.
We're going to do the mammogram, you're going to sit for your
(06:10):
results in the waiting room andthen we'll release you.
And, as it turned out for me,the radiologist then came in,
and then other specialists camein.
They immediately did theultrasound and they said have
you eaten anything today?
If not, we're going to do thebiopsy right now.
(06:31):
And then they signed me up fora clinical trial and said
because of your genetic makeup,is there a possibility that we
can go ahead and take your bloodand the tissue and submit it to
multiple organizations to bestudied?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Wow, katrina, this is all in one day.
Yes, I did not know this story.
That is amazing.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I can't even imagine they still hadn't told me you
have cancer, but I had assumedthat with all of this.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
They probably just assumed that you kind of
understood that, and that'sunbelievable.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
The final diagnosis didn't end up coming until a few
days later, so I think it was aThursday when I went in and it
wasn't until June 30th that Iactually got the diagnosis.
I was at the park with a newperson and her kids and our kids
were playing together.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I guess we have that in common being at the park when
we get the diagnosis.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
And it was so fascinating because this new
woman that I was speaking to istotally empowered and amazing
and her child and her motherboth had had a type of cancer,
so it was almost like divinely.
I was supported with thisperson to talk through what it
(07:53):
would be like and I stayed supercalm, went home, hosted a
birthday party for my stepdadand all of our family were
around.
And then, of course, the bigquestion of how did it go?
And I was trying to keep ithidden from my family and just
live a normal life and out ofhonesty, I directly told my
(08:16):
family yeah, we'll be meetingwith the oncologist to move
forward.
And yeah, so I kept positive,knowing that I can't really
control the outcome, but I cancontrol my attitude, that's true
, it's about the only thing youcan control in any situation.
Exactly, and so I really lookedat it is what milestones can I
(08:38):
celebrate?
What can I acknowledge aspositive?
I feel like the doctors andnurses showing up to do
treatment and taking care of me,and all the right people coming
together.
Everything synchronisticallycame together to support me.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
It's beautiful.
Yeah, yeah, it's such a.
It's so funny how you know you.
We've talked about how you're.
You're an introvert, I'm anextrovert.
But even being an extrovert, itis really hard to spit out the
words I have cancer to yourfamily or to anyone it's.
It's because it doesn't seemreal.
It's like I Mean I have likethey're gonna do this clinical
(09:22):
trial, they're gonna I'm talkingto the oncologist yeah, it's
easy to say those things, butthen I have cancer.
I mean, like this morning Ididn't have cancer, or I didn't
know I had cancer and now I'msomeone that has cancer.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
It's like Weird, you know well, and I think that
people's reaction to it also iskind of weird, because there's
so much fear around it.
Mm-hmm and I know that thereare different stages of cancer
and different types of cancerthat all have different impact.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
But the reaction that people have, I think, was the
the opportunity for me to Standin my truth, be patient, be
grounded, as other peopleresponded to that diagnosis that
is such a beautiful Responseand you know it's so easy to get
to be very hurt by people'sresponses or lack thereof, by
(10:15):
the things they say that areinadvertently hurtful, and I
think the fact that you justtook that road and took that
Thought about it in that wayright away is really beautiful
and really shows you know thatyou're beautiful.
Light oh.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Thank you.
I truly believe that we allhave those experiences that
we've, that we've had, thatwe've grown from, and People who
haven't gone through a cancerdiagnosis and all of the
treatment.
They just don't have a conceptof what that would be like.
And it's not that there'sanything bad or wrong or the
(10:54):
things that they say areintended to be hurtful.
They just don't know and youdon't know, you can't do
anything about.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's just like, yeah, loving
people enough to realize thatyou know they're, they mean well
, they're not trying to hurt youand people don't know what to
say.
I had a whole episode aboutthis, about you know what, not
to say what to someone who hascancer, with another friend of
mine who really, who really, um,you know, has gone down that
(11:21):
road in her professional lifewanting to, wanting to really
focus in on that it's.
It's just people don't knowwhat to say and they're they've.
We even even like in myprofessional education as a
nurse, we have so much educationaround trying, you know how to
talk to somebody who'sexperiencing a loss or Whatever
(11:42):
it may be.
It's.
It doesn't come easy.
Whether you're, whether you'resomebody who likes to talk or
whether you're not somebody wholikes to talk, it still doesn't
come easy.
Sometimes you don't know whatto say.
What did you?
Speaker 3 (11:55):
love.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I love that episode.
Oh, thanks for listening.
What did you?
What are some things thatpeople said to you or didn't say
to you, or that you wish theysaid, or how did you deal with
some of those?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Share some of those experiences with us, so most of
my journey, I Basically set theframework of how to tell people,
how to respond, and so I would,you know, say, yes, I'm going
through cancer treatment andeverything is going great.
And you know, or I'm totallysupported by my team and tried
(12:32):
to frame it Optimistically.
I would say the mostuncomfortable situation I have
had was After I had had thethree surgeries, you know, the
limb surgery, the doublemastectomy and the hysterectomy.
I had gone through, you know,chemotherapy and radiation, and
(12:57):
so I had no hair and I had abaseball hat on and was sitting
in the radiation lobby.
The radiation lobby and anolder man said to me how is it
going through this transition?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I remember this story .
I forgot about this story.
You shared this on the retreatand.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I, I wanted to see the best in the situation.
So I said well, the transitionfrom, you know, chemotherapy is
not quite complete, buttransition into radiation and
having chemotherapy andradiation at the same time has
been really difficult and um youdidn't?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
you're funny, katrina .
How did you take that?
Well, the gentleman was likeconfused, and so I felt like I
legitimately thought you weredoing a gender transformation,
exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
And so then you know, of course, I was, like you know
, being a strong, powerful womanin this time, you know, and I
tried to help the poor guyunderstand I'm not transitioning
, and uh, so you know, we had alittle bit of that moment and it
took everything inside of menot to feel completely
(14:12):
devastated by the words, butthat's when I got to embody that
personal power within me.
That is only.
I know the truth of myexperience and that it's not my
job to explain to others.
It's my job to be compassionateand educate and support people
in, you know, expanding theirconsciousness, rather than me
(14:36):
trying to explain my choices ormy experience.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
That is quotable.
Right there I'm gonna have topull that out.
That was beautiful you you area beautiful soul.
That's amazing.
I totally agree with that.
Yeah, oh, what a beautifulstory.
I love it.
So did he ever Figure it outthat you're, that you're just a
woman going through cancertreatment, not someone
transitioning to a differentgender?
Speaker 3 (15:01):
well, lucky for me, the nurse came and pulled me
back and, um, you know, gave himan opportunity to sit and think
.
But I think a lot of times wemake assumptions, assumptions
about ourselves, assumptionsabout other people.
And that was one of thoseassumptions where, you know, I
made assumptions about him andhe made assumptions about me,
(15:22):
and we'll never fully know thetruth.
But if we stay authentic, thenthere's a better chance that we
can understand one another andcome to common ground.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Ah, isn't that true about the world?
Yeah, wow, that's a beautifulstory.
So tell us about your journey.
So my, with my, in my case, Ihad, you know, very early stage,
stage zero.
So I chose to have a doublemastectomy, which I didn't need
to have.
I could have had just alumpectomy, but to me, you know,
(15:52):
taking a lump out and thenhaving radiation and then having
a deform, you know still havingsaggy breast, cancer, hiding
breasts, you know, dense breasts, was not attractive to me.
I I chose a double mastectomy,um, and I didn't have to do any
other treatment because mine wasso early stage and because Of
(16:12):
doing that, you know, radicaldouble mastectomy, um, I just
did a reconstruction a couplemonths later.
What was your journey, though?
I know a lot of times they dochemo before, after.
I know you kind of.
When I met you, you had veryshort hair, you had just
finished a round of chemo.
So tell us about, like, theprogression of what you did
first and what it's different inevery person, I know.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yes, so, um, originally we weren't.
We didn't know what type ofcancer it was, um because um of
where it was in the breast andthe lymph involvement.
So my first surgery wasactually to see how severe the
cancer was, and so I had thatimmediately.
Um, you know, I think gosh theseventh or or somewhere around
(17:00):
early july of that year, umlater on in that month, on the
29th, I started um chemotherapyand there were a lot of
decisions in the chemotherapyprocess in my situation, because
you know they had said oh well,maybe you can do a cold cap to
keep your hair, and With itbeing in the middle of covet it
(17:22):
was a little bit differentbecause there was nobody to help
you put the cold cap on.
And so I made the decision yeah,and without the extra support.
You know going to all yourappointments by yourself,
without another person.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
That was one of the hardest parts of covet being in
health care, I saw that a lot,you know.
Just yeah, not being able tohave the extra person there or
people there, because it was notallowed because of, you know,
disease prevention.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
And then the way that they had it set up is that we
had to be six feet away fromanother patient, so getting
scheduled for infusionsespecially when you have like a
six hour infusion without thecold cap and then it would go up
to about eight or nine hours Iknew that by doing the cold cap
it would prevent someone elsefrom being able to get cancer
(18:11):
treatment.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Oh, my God, so you are such a thoughtful, wonderful
person.
Oh, thank you.
So you sacrificed your own hairfor others.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yes, and I realized that someone's life was way more
important than how I looked,and so that was the first
decision I made, and so Istarted the infusions and I met
a wonderful nurse whoconsistently would come and
check on me, but they wereovertaxed with everything, and
(18:47):
so I was really grateful forthis nurse who every time would
mirror my positivity and I wouldsay I'm going to live for
another 45 years and she wouldsay, yes, you are, and it was
just a really positiveenvironment and I know that the
tone for that.
But it also helped that shereciprocated that.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Totally.
I bet you affected her lifejust as much as she affected
your life being a nurse.
It's really special when youhave patients who have a spark
like you do.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Thank you.
Yeah, she is absolutelyfabulous and I loved how so many
doctors and nurses came in tobe with me at different times.
So when I went in for my doublemastectomy, it was quite
interesting because the COVIDnumbers were so high that I had
to check in at a certain timeearly in the morning Prior to
(19:46):
the COVID numbers being taken,and then my surgeon actually
worked out getting a pediatricanesthesiologist, and then I had
a neonatal nurse come in andthey were doing a favor to the
doctor in order to squeeze me in.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
That's really cool.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
They made accommodations so that I could
go through and get the surgerythat I needed, and they didn't
have to show up during themiddle of a pandemic and go to
work and risk their lives andyet they did, and I am so
grateful for every person thatsupported me during my treatment
.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
That's so beautiful and so meaningful that you
mentioned them.
Speaking of mentioning them, doyou want to or do you feel
comfortable mentioning any ofyour doctors or the
organizations that helped youalong the way?
Because one thing I've beensurprised by is I've mentioned a
couple of my doctors and I'vehad people reach out and tell me
(20:48):
that they listened to thispodcast episode or that podcast
episode and they actually madean appointment with my surgeon
and now they're going to goahead and have their treatment
through them.
So if you want to share it andfeel comfortable and we're happy
with anybody in Colorado tellus you never know, you might
listen.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
So I was at, or I still am.
I'm getting an infusiontomorrow.
My oncologist is Dr Vashi andshe's at Rocky Mountain Cancer
at the Skyridge location.
She is absolutely wonderful.
She radiates.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
What city are you in?
What city are you in inColorado?
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Oh, okay, so I live in Aurora, colorado, so south of
Denver.
Okay, cool, yes.
Then my surgeon was Dr Moore,and she was amazing, absolutely
amazing.
She always looked at makingsure that wholeness was at the
(21:46):
center of the treatment, and soshe would often ask me so what
would need to happen in thissurgery in order for you to feel
whole?
What a wonderful question Inever been asked that by a
doctor.
Well, I loved it because what Ilearned about myself which I
didn't know before going throughtreatment, is that I have this
(22:07):
incredible relationship withspirit source God.
I have wholeness in myself andmy soul and my spirit and how I
connect with myself.
I have this wholeness in myfamily unit, which is great, and
then having that extend to thedoctors and nurses in the
community really felt like agood fit for me and so I
(22:30):
realized, oh, I don't need toworry about the hair because
hopefully it will grow back.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
I'm grateful it did.
It looks beautiful, by the way,I love it.
I love the new curls.
Did you have curls before?
Speaker 3 (22:41):
I did it was just much longer.
Yeah, and in terms of thedecision around having surgery
and having a plastic surgeon, Ihad a wonderful plastic surgeon
and I did not actually getplastic surgery because it was
in the middle of COVID and whatthat would have required was
(23:07):
gosh, how do I say this?
It would have required way moresurgeries than what my body
probably could have or shouldhave handled.
And when I told him that I wasvery athletic, I wanted to heal
as quickly as possible, live ina place of vitality, be able to
be with my kids he was veryhonest with me and said you know
(23:29):
, katrina, I don't think thatgetting surgery is going to be
your best interest.
We would need to probably dosomewhere between 20 and 29
surgeries to get it right.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Wow, why?
Speaker 3 (23:40):
That's crazy.
Well, because I had broken myribs and the blood flow of the
nerves that would have needed tobe available in order to have a
successful implant surgerywasn't a good idea.
Wow, being able to coordinatewith all of the medical team
during the middle of COVID wasgoing to be a challenge.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
These are things that people don't even understand.
Don't even realize.
That's amazing, Wow.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Yeah, so for me, I'm actually flat.
I have no nipples, no boobs,I'm a rib cage and it doesn't
even look like a man's chestbecause it's just the rib cage.
It's a concave almost, and it'sfine.
It's not like I'm flashingpeople or anything.
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I was able to get back to being athletic and
probably a lot less things toworry about as far as your
athleticism.
Do you even have to wear asports bra, or do you wear one
just because it feels weird ifyou don't?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I wear one because it feels weird if I don't, but I
don't need one.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Do you use prosthetic breasts or no, nothing.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Well, I have to be honest with you.
I went and I got the mostamazing.
They took my measurements whenI went to the plastic surgeon
and those were given to thewoman who does prosthetics and
they did a pair that wassupposedly the same size and
everything.
They are ginormous.
I got so comfortable withworking out without them and
(25:17):
sleeping without them thatsometimes I realized that, holy
cow, they're in the way.
I ended up ordering a smallersize and they're still ginormous
.
Ginormous, I like that word.
I tend to wear just a tank topwith a slight little pad in it.
(25:39):
That's really mild, that I justcan move, enjoy life with hike
bike to athletic things withoutthem getting in the way.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
That sounds actually very peaceful, very nice.
I didn't go that route.
I considered it.
I really didn't consider it atthe time, it was a passing
thought, but I wasn't ready forthat.
Who knows, maybe down the lineit's a continuing work of
(26:10):
progress, but work in progress,that's very brave and very cool.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I was amazed and delighted by how many companies
have come out with completelycute clothes that support
somebody in being flat.
That's awesome.
I've been grateful.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
What are some of those brands?
I am not aware of that.
There's so many things outthere.
It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Oh my gosh.
My favorite bathing suitcompany is Hapari, because you
can put in prosthetics or notput in prosthetics.
They have a high neck whichcovers my port.
I can go out in public and nothave people looking at my port.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
That's protruding from my chest.
Do you still have a port inthere?
Yeah, you're still gettinginfusions.
You're still getting infusions.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
You're still getting infusions, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Why is it that you needed to continue to get
infusions?
What was the progression?
I interrupted the story.
Sorry about that.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Oh, no Apology necessary.
Some people need a little bitmore support, especially when
they have a more advanced stageof breast cancer.
At this point I'm not quite tothe maintenance.
I'm hoping to get to themaintenance phase this spring.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
It's been a long time four years, huh, or more, no,
two and a half, okay, I don'tknow why, my math is off.
Mine was four years ago that Iwas diagnosed.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, I just support whatever it looks like.
I do love the naturopathicoptions that I've used to
compliment.
I have the absolute bestacupuncturist and I go and get
rakey regularly.
(28:07):
I have a healing touch provider.
It's just been really great tohave these kinds of resources to
support me through thetreatment also.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
That's wonderful.
Yeah, that's really awesome.
Where do we want to talk aboutnext?
What questions do you have forme or what do you want to share?
Okay, I think I have a coupleof questions.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Of course I read your book when it first came out and
then when it went on off of all.
I was so excited.
I've listened to your book acouple of times.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Oh my gosh a couple of times.
That's so awesome.
Thank you for listening andsupporting me in that way.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
My pleasure, my favorite part, is, honestly,
your journey through faith.
I know that I am one that lovesGod, loves faith, and I love
the Jewish background and, ofcourse, moving into Christianity
, I am from a predominantlyJewish family from my mom's side
(29:04):
and we actually have aencyclopedia of our family
history that goes back forgenerations Wow.
And, of course, getting thegenetic testing of what looks
like being from Jewish descentwas important.
The question that I had for youis did you have any kind of
(29:26):
genetic component to your breastcancer?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
So I did do all the genetic testing, and it all came
back negative.
What's interesting, though, isthat my mom had the exact same
kind of cancer about 10 yearsalmost exactly 10 years before
me.
So it's not genetic based onany of the current markers that
they're testing for, and yet mymom and I both had the exact
same kind of cancer.
So I don't know.
(29:49):
I am also a Vashkenazi, jewishdescent, but I don't have the
Brachagin or any other cancermarkers.
In fact, one of the most, oneof the most, one of the funnest
days of my cancer journey was Iwent to see the.
So you have a.
I had a surgical oncologist whodid the double mastectomy, and
then I had a.
She wanted me to see a medicaloncologist after the surgery
(30:12):
just to review.
She's like I don't think you'regoing to have to do anything
ongoing because of you know howearly stage you were, but you
want, I want you to just meetwith him, and he said basically
nope, everything came backnegative.
I don't have to ever see youagain.
Maybe I'll see you in thegrocery store, but that's it.
He was a wonderful doctor too,dr Curley in North Scottsdale.
(30:32):
I would highly recommend him.
I was almost a little bit sadthat I didn't get to keep going
to his office because he wasjust so warm and wonderful.
But what was I saying?
I can't remember what I broughtthat up for.
But no, that's.
What's really interesting isthat they all the things they
test for all the other types ofcancer.
I don't have any of thosemarkers, but I mean, I don't
(30:56):
know, like still has to be alittle bit genetic as far as I'm
concerned.
I think they just don't knowthey don't have all the markers
yet, they don't know everythingthey're looking for.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Right, and I know that some of the genetic markers
are more popular than othergenetic markers.
So what we found in our line,in lineage, was the PMS2 gene
mutation, and so that wasinteresting because I had never
heard of such a thing.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, tell us about that.
What's that?
Speaker 3 (31:26):
I don't know much, but if you are Jewish and you
have a genetic marker, that's acomponent to keep in mind.
The other question I wanted toask you is how does this impact
your relationship with yourgirls and being a parent and
going through cancer treatment?
How did that show up in yourparenting?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Well, it was really interesting because I, just like
you, I really took.
I immediately shifted to kindof almost like a.
I wanted to be very careful howI presented it to the world and
to my family and I presented itlike oh, this is awesome, this
is no big deal.
Mommy's gonna face this, youknow.
(32:05):
Yes, I have cancer.
But because of mylightheartedness about it in the
way that I presented it to themand to everybody else in my
life, they never really wereworried about me dying or
anything like that.
That never even crossed theirmind because truly it really was
.
I was not in danger.
(32:26):
I mean, you know, it stillcould come up.
We all could get cancer at anytime of our life that
metastasizes and is much moreserious.
I have a dear friend who justgot a diagnosis years later
after being cancer free.
So, but that cancer, I don'tthink they.
The ages of my kids were suchthat it was a little awkward.
(32:49):
Actually, my littlest one, ariaoh, I don't usually use her
name in my book I changed thename, oh, but anyway, my
littlest daughter was with me atthe park.
It was just me and her alone atthe park when I got that
diagnosis.
She was the very first person Itold she we would take baths
together.
I mean, she saw my, my breastsall the time and she knew that I
was taking a look.
(33:10):
I was going to the doctor, I'dgone for a biopsy, she had been
with me at the biopsy because ofan ouchie in my booby, and so
when I found out, I told her youknow what they found that the
ouchie in my booby is is the badstuff that they were worried
about.
It's called cancer, but it'sokay, they're going to fix it
and blah, blah, blah, and so,like the way I presented it was
just, you know, we're just goingto take care of it.
(33:31):
And I think, if anything, myolder girls were maybe a little
embarrassed about it, and it wasalso there was, you know it was
.
It was an awkward time.
My oldest was 13 and my, youknow, the second one was 11 and
then my little one was threewhen I was diagnosed, and so it
was very interesting ages, youknow, for that to happen.
(33:54):
And so, yeah, I think, I think,if anything, my family and my
both my immediate family and myextended family just sort of
roll their eyes at the way I'mso boldly like share my life
with the world.
I think that it offends them insome ways not not necessarily
(34:15):
offends, but they just don'talways understand it.
And they don't understand why Ido that.
And you know they see it in anegative light and I think that
the reason I do it is because Ihave seen how it connects with
people, how it touches otherpeople, how it means something
(34:36):
to other people.
I'm going to keep doing it,yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Well in your story and meeting you at Imagery Born.
It was inspiring.
You had the medical knowledgeand the experiential experience
of having cancer.
That was gosh I don't know whatthe word is.
It really ignited in me to takemore advocacy for myself.
(35:05):
I, of course, presented it tomy kids, very similar to you.
It's fine, we're great and wasvery positive.
I mean we did a boob voyageparty to self-need.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
I didn't do anything like that and I wish I had.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
A getting wiggie with it, where, of course, we had to
have wigs for everyone.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
That's so fun.
You did so many fun things andyou continue to do so many fun
things.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
I tried to make it fun and, after an extended
period of time seeking resourcesto psychologically help the
mental health of my familymembers was necessary.
There were some great kidsprograms Camp Kessum.
I don't know if you've heard ofit, but it's a camp for kids
(35:56):
that supports them and each ofthe kids that go to this camp
it's all over the nation it'sfor kids whose parents have
cancer.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
That's so amazing.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
They came back empowered and changed and
compassionate, and had a betterunderstanding of what that
journey is like for people.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
That's wonderful.
There are so many amazingresources.
I will say I sometimes feelalmost a little guilty because
breast cancer gets so much press.
I guess there's so manyresources and programs for
people, women and their familiesthat are experiencing breast
(36:37):
cancer.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
It's pretty cool.
It is very cool, yes.
I'm very supportive becauseit's a tough journey and that
extra support really helps.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
So, on my, as far as me, I was going to ask you.
So you did that.
Bon Voyage, boob Voyage party.
That is really a cute idea.
I didn't think of doinganything like that.
What were your thoughts aboutthat?
What were your feelings aboutthat?
Was it a group of friends thatdecided to do that for you, or
how did that come about?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Yes, a group of friends decided to do that for
me.
Of course, I have a reallysupportive mother.
She hosted it at her house,along with a couple of my
friends.
The hardest party moment for mewas when my parents and friends
invited over a group of peopleto celebrate my last day at
(37:33):
chemo and I went in for my lasttreatment and I was so excited
and I discovered that wasn't mylast chemo, and so, of course, I
came home and my support systemis there.
All ready to celebrate, and youyes, and so that was one of the
(37:53):
moments where it was hard.
But if you communicate whatyour needs are and sometimes
that's harder easier said thandone, because looking within and
saying, gosh, what do I reallyneed, what does my soul need,
what does my mind need, whatdoes my body need Sometimes it
gets confusing because we wantto be that same person we were
(38:14):
before treatment.
We want to be energized,enthusiastic, positive,
optimistic all of thosecharacteristics that we always
were.
And sometimes in those momentswe have to speak up and say,
gosh, I'm not okay.
Right now I feel devastatedthat I still am going to be
doing another year of treatmentand then after that chemo didn't
(38:37):
work at the level they neededit to.
Going on to a third chemo was alittle bit more challenging
than I think any of us expected.
But being able to communicatethose difficult things and
having people be open to stillwanting to support you and love
you in that truth is reallyimportant for cancer survivors.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
That is so important for cancer survivors and really
for anyone.
I think if the rest of us werehalf as emotionally mature as
you are, this world would be amuch better place.
I mean, how beautiful to beable to recognize how difficult
it is to communicate your needsor even know what your needs and
wants and desires are.
(39:19):
I think that if we would all bea little bit more in touch with
our own emotional selves, wemight have better results in
everything we do.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Well, I think that one of the things I noticed from
meeting you and also ourfriendship and the book and your
podcast is that you have a realcompassion for people and that
you're present with them and youlisten to their stories and you
can understand and relate tothem.
One of the gifts that I've hadin my life is those experiential
(39:54):
moments of working in differenttypes of situation, with trauma
, whether it be working for therape crisis center, working for
the suicide prevention, theworld ministry of prayer, taking
death calls at a mortuary,working with inmates or the
(40:16):
juvenile system.
In all of these experiences,what I've learned is that if you
show up open and in a place oflove, no matter what the grief
is, no matter what the situationis, whether it's cancer or
somebody just lost a familymember or, like you mentioned,
(40:37):
the man with the toe who wasgetting amputated I think if we
show up and ask the question ofwhat is this like for you,
whoever it is is going to answerand we don't have to fix
anything, we don't have tochange anything, we don't have
to do anything except be presentwith where that person is.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
I mean, yes, that is the secret to life, Absolutely.
I totally agree, Totally agree.
Beautiful.
Thank you for what you saw inme too.
I think that's what life is allabout, honestly we all.
Otherwise, we're all goingaround doing our own thing just
(41:18):
stumbling around.
I think when we can connect andwe can see ourselves in other
people and when we can see themin us, that's meaning those
connections and that compassionis everything to me.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, and we never know who needs to hear that
story or know that aspect of ourlives.
With you sharing your bookcover with me at Imagery Born,
it was exactly the inspirationthat I needed that day.
And oh, there's a life, there'sa career after cancer, there's
something you can create aftercancer, and I just didn't know
(41:56):
that was possible.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Wow that you saying that just lit me up inside.
I mean the fact I forgot that Igot the book cover.
I received a copy, a picture ofthe book cover, as I was there
and I showed it to you on myphone as we were on a little
hike that morning.
I forgot all about that.
So you were one of the firstpeople to see my book cover and
(42:19):
that just showing you my bookcover would have such an impact
on you is just so meaningful.
Because you know you write abook and it's a painful and time
consuming and frustratingexperience a lot of the time.
And then you put it out in theworld and you know it connects
with some people.
Some people hate it.
Most people have had a positivereaction.
(42:40):
But just to think that even thecover, even just writing the
book, made a difference in yourlife is so, so meaningful and it
encourages me to keep going.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
The state that I was in on that day was okay.
My oncologist said I'm notgoing to be able to work and
that limitation was getting medown.
And then you showed up with allthis vibrance and all this
excitement, show me the bookcover and talk about, you know,
creating a career after cancer.
(43:12):
And so it planted a seed in methat, no matter what I'm going
to, you know, create a life,create a career after cancer.
And you inspired me to becomean entrepreneur based on that
and I've been working on mywriting and being authentic in
my own being, and it's going toshow up completely different
(43:34):
than how you have.
But I was so grateful that youplanted that seed of hope and
that possibility for me bysharing your book cover while we
were on our hike.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Wow, thank you, katrina, for sharing that with
me.
That is so meaningful.
Well, thank you for being herewith me today.
This has just been an amazingconversation.
I knew I wanted you on mypodcast.
I really didn't know why, butnow I know why.
I think you have such a light,such a joy to share with the
world, and you know however manydays we have left, just keep
(44:05):
doing it, keep being you.
Thank you for listening toPiece of Work, the podcast.
The book is available on Amazon.
Piece of Work a memoir.
We're all a piece of work, awork in progress and a work of
art.
Please like, share, subscribeto this podcast so that others
can find it.
You will never know how muchthat means to like an
independent content creator.
(44:27):
Author.
My website is danieltantonecom.
All of my social medias are atdanieltantone.
And what about you, katrina?
Is there anything that?
Do you have a website?
Where can people find?
Speaker 3 (44:38):
you, I do KatrinaDorocom, and that is
spelled D-O-R-O-Wcom, and thename of my business is mainly
divine, like the main of a horsedivinecom, beautiful, beautiful
.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
I can't wait to experience your equestrian
gestalt therapy.
Is that what it's called?
I can't wait.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
Yes, I am an equine gestaltist, thank you.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Okay, I am so looking forward to that and, in the
meantime, I just thank you.
Thank you for connecting, thankyou for sharing your story with
us, and I wish you all the best.
Go forth with light and love,thank you.
You're awesome, thank you.
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