October 3, 2023 • 57 mins
Are you worried about the intimidating process of college planning? In this episode, I sit down with Shawn Coates, the owner of Class 101 Mesa Gilbert. We hired Shawn to help our daughter choose the right school, create a stellar application, and secure the best scholarship opportunities. She demystified the process for us, and I know she can do so for you, too.
We delve into a wide array of topics, from exploring student interests in careers like medicine to the intricacies of college application deadlines and financial considerations. Shawn gives us a glimpse into unique programs and activities that high school students can pursue to make themselves competitive candidates for college applications. She also unravels the complexities of college application processes, touching on the pros and cons of early action, early decision, and regular decision. Along the way, she stresses the importance of having a backup plan and doing due diligence before making a decision.
Lastly, Shawn doesn't shy away from the often dreaded issue of college affordability. She shares her wisdom on how students and families can navigate the financial aspect, and the crucial role of scholarships in easing the burden. She also emphasizes the need to understand the true cost of a college education and to consider more affordable college options. So tune in, and let this illuminating conversation guide you and your child in the college planning process.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Danielle Tantone (00:09):
Hi there.
Welcome to Piece of Work, thepodcast.
I'm Danielle Tantone.
I'm a nurse, author, coach andsurvivor.
I love inspiring people to livetheir best life, reach for
those big dreams and find joyeven in the pain.
As I wrote my memoir over somany years, trying to make sense
of a story where I was way toooften the bad guy instead of the
(00:29):
hero, I came to understand thatwe are all a piece of work, but
we're also a work in progress,and even in our messiness we are
a work of art too.
All at the very same time, infact, we are all beautifully
unique pieces of one masterpiecewaves in the same ocean.
This podcast will explore thestories and struggles that make
(00:51):
us human, the miracles thatsurround us and all the ways we
work to make sense of it all.
Welcome to Peace of Work, thepodcast.
Welcome back to Peace of Work.
I'm Danielle Tantone, and todayI'm here with my friend, Shawn
Coates.
She has a business called Class101, mesa Gilbert, and she
(01:12):
works one-on-one with highschool students to help them
through the college planningprocess.
She can talk about it way moreeloquently than me, so I'm going
to let her introduce herself.
I wanted to just say that Ihave gotten to know her just a
little bit through my daughter,cameron, who has been going
through her program, and havebeen really impressed with
(01:33):
everything that she knows.
Shawn Coates (01:35):
So, Shawn, thanks for being here with me today.
Thank you very much forinviting me, so you want me to
introduce myself?
Danielle Tantone (01:42):
Yeah, do a little better job than I just
did of telling us who you are.
You did a good job.
Shawn Coates (01:47):
And how you got into it.
So my name is Sean Coates and Iown Class 101, mesa Gilbert.
I am an independent educationalconsultant and I work
one-on-one, as you mentioned,with high school students and
their families and helping themnavigate the complicated college
planning process.
I help with everything from Ato Z and making sure that the
(02:07):
students don't miss anyopportunities that are available
to them.
And how I got into this businesswas when my own children were
going through the collegeplanning process.
I was working as anadministrator at a high school
and I worked.
We didn't have counselors atour high school, so I was at a
charter school and I did all ofour post-secondary planning for
our students.
So I was doing careerassessments, making sure that
(02:30):
students were choosing the rightschool for the right reason,
looking at their return on theirinvestment and basically
walking them through the process.
And my oldest son, who's 24 andhe's now graduated from U of A,
when he was starting to explorethe college planning process, I
realized how frequently hisfriends and his friends'
(02:52):
families were missingopportunities along the way,
simply just because they weren'taware of them, and so I just
kind of started thinking abouthow I could help other kids, and
I suddenly, on Saturdaymornings, had six teenage boys
sitting around my kitchen tabledoing career assessments and
prepping for the SAT and ACT.
And it was kind of funnybecause it just kind of
(03:14):
naturally evolved.
And in fact one of my goodfriends and one of his friends'
moms said to me can I just payyou to do everything?
because Anthony and I are goingto kill each other over this
process and you know what you'redoing, and it's been 30 years
since I've applied to collegeand I don't understand the
process anymore.
Danielle Tantone (03:30):
Well, and it's so different.
Back when I applied to college,there was no internet, there
was like a book at school.
I mean, I definitely madedecisions with very little
information.
We didn't do college tours.
I think the first time I setfoot on U of A campus was the
first day of school there 100%,and it's kind of funny.
Shawn Coates (03:50):
My life has truly come full circle because I went
to college at the University ofSan Diego, I graduated in
$95,000, $46,000 in debt, and Ididn't know that I could have
gone to ASU for free, and so Ijust want students to be able to
make decisions with theinformation you know, have all
the information at theirdisposal so that they can look
(04:11):
at this from a financialstandpoint, because my life
would have been remarkablydifferent if I didn't graduate.
You know a grant that was 30years ago, but $46,000 in debt
then was a lot of money, a lotof money.
Danielle Tantone (04:23):
Yeah, back then, asu U of A was a couple
thousand dollars a year if youwere an in-state resident.
Shawn Coates (04:29):
Definitely.
It's not very expensive at all,definitely, and I graduated
with a degree in politicalscience and didn't intend to go
on to law school.
So if someone would have helpedme with the process, I would
have most definitely decidedthat I didn't want to go to law
school before I was a senior incollege.
So it's truly, my life hastruly come full circle and I
really enjoy helping studentsevaluate their options and their
(04:51):
opportunities, and it's mucheasier for me to have those
one-on-one conversations withstudents than it is for their
parents to have those one-on-oneconversations with students
even though they're veryimportant.
Danielle Tantone (05:04):
Yeah, I mean, you're like this outside
authority that knows stuff andisn't personally invested, and I
think that makes a hugedifference.
Shawn Coates (05:13):
It does, and when my own children were going
through the college planningprocess, they worked with
someone other than me because ofthe end of the day, I'm mom and
although this is what I doprofessionally and people pay me
handsomely to do it, at the endof the day I'm mom and the kids
don't want to talk about theirGPA or their test scores or
their career assessments withmom Right.
Danielle Tantone (05:33):
Right, at least all the time.
I absolutely see that.
So, yeah, it's such a process,and you listened to the
interview I did a couple ofweeks ago with Cameron and you
know it, just her, you know,she's not maybe the typical
student, although I think youwork with a lot of high caliber
students.
Shawn Coates (05:51):
I do.
But she has some, I think, somebeautiful gifts that are rare
and she, when she read the poemthat she wrote, it brought me to
tears, literally.
Danielle Tantone (06:03):
Like it gave me tears.
Shawn Coates (06:04):
Yes, and it was so raw and real and heartfelt and
I told, in fact, to my nextmeeting with her.
I said that has to go in yourapplication somewhere, totally,
and we're just going to figureout where that's going to go.
Danielle Tantone (06:16):
And that's her gift is being able to share
that emotion in a way that'suniversal.
That's what I told her.
Even watching that, I was likeeven watching her read it.
I was like I can relate to that, and it's been you know not
about the college process, butjust just having to lay yourself
bare and, you know, findsomething that's worth something
to these people that are tryingto judge you.
Shawn Coates (06:35):
Right that take 12 minutes to read your
application that you've workedon for the last, you know, year
and a half.
So yes, but she, but yeah, Itruly appreciated that.
In fact, I don't even know ifshe mentioned to you I gave her
a list of opportunities for likewriting competitions, so that
(06:57):
she could share some of her work.
Yeah, because that is truly agift.
But sometimes when studentshave and just individuals have
gifts like that, to put that towork makes it no longer a gift,
like I had a really good friendwho is a chef and she had her
own cooking.
In fact, I posted a picture ofthe crab cakes that I made with
(07:19):
the horse radish.
Danielle Tantone (07:20):
Oh, yes, I saw those.
Shawn Coates (07:22):
I almost taste them through the the yeah,
they're amazing, and I used to.
I used to teach wine classes.
She would teach the cookingpart and then I would come in
and teach wine pairings and itwas her business, was called
cooking for pleasure, and shewas teaching others how to make
those wonderful those dishes,those dishes.
And then it became so much workthat it was no longer pleasure
(07:43):
for her, so she ended up closingclosing her business.
Danielle Tantone (07:46):
That does happen sometimes, but hopefully
with writing, you know, I don't,I don't know how Cameron feels
about it, but when you have agift for writing, you kind of
want to, you kind of want peopleto read your words, I, I,
usually I agree, even if you'rean introvert, even you know it's
sort of that that gives youpleasure to to have people your
(08:08):
words touch people, so and Ithink that can be a great way
for others to connect andexpress Right yeah.
So besides, so what I started tosay was Cameron's maybe not the
typical student, but what?
What kind of are the mainthings that you see the students
struggling with?
Where are the main areas whereyou really dig in and help them?
Shawn Coates (08:27):
So you know, every student is unique and and it's
a really an individualizedapproach based on what the
students goals are or what thestudents sometimes students
don't have any goals.
I think most often studentscome in and they're like this is
the next phase of life that I'mexpected to go through.
I have no idea where to startor what I want to do, and it's
(08:48):
expensive and intimidating.
And my parents say I need to goto college.
But do I need to go to college?
And so we start withassessments, career assessments,
and we do several of them overtime because it helps the
student build confidence thathere's some things that I are
within my natural abilities andmy gifts and that I may want to
(09:09):
consider, consider exploring.
And oftentimes students willcome in and let's just say a
student's interested in nursing,because everyone knows what a
nurse does.
At least they think they do, atleast they think they do.
Danielle Tantone (09:24):
I had no idea what a nurse does before.
Shawn Coates (09:26):
I actually became one.
So it's kind of funny becausestudents will that's something
that they have exposure to, theyknow it's, you know, most
likely going to require a fouryear degree and they have a
vague idea of what what itrequires.
But they may not haveconsidered other.
I would call them like sisteroccupations or occupations that
overlap that they may want toconsider because because they
(09:50):
might enjoy that more thannursing.
And so we spend a lot of timelooking at different careers and
helping the students with okay,well, what is it that you like
about this?
What are the pros and what arethe cons?
And maybe we want to consideroccupational therapy, or can you
see yourself doing this for thenext 30 years, and it might
(10:11):
involve, you know, my sister's anurse and she is an
electational consultant as well,so there's other opportunities
and things that can come alongwith it.
So just try to help thestudents get a better
understanding so that they feelconfident with what they want to
go to college for.
Danielle Tantone (10:28):
And then what do you actually do with them?
So you mentioned assessments.
I know there's some prep forthe ACTs and the ACTs, but what
else?
In your meetings and in yourtime with them?
If you're with them, you knowwhat typically is the timeframe.
Tell us a little bit about thatand how often you meet with
them and stuff.
Shawn Coates (10:46):
So I meet with freshmen every eight weeks and
freshmen have different goalsthan you know sophomores,
juniors and seniors.
Freshman it's about you know,understanding the importance of
earning strong grades, takingthe right classes, taking
classes that are going to helpthem fulfill their interest
while they're in high school,making sure that they are
getting involved on campus.
Sophomores I meet with everysix weeks and then we start
(11:09):
talking about okay, you've beeninvolved on campus, you have
good grades, are you interestedin some leadership positions?
Some students are, somestudents aren't and just making
sure that they understand thisis what colleges these are the
colleges that you have on yourlist this is what they're going
to want to see from you to kindof build their exposure and
experience throughout theiractivities and also provide some
(11:33):
depth.
So if students I think they'reinterested in, let's just say,
medicine, there are activitiesthat they can get involved and
that will support that.
Danielle Tantone (11:42):
Like, for example, what would be if they
wanted to go into medicine?
What might they get involved in?
Shawn Coates (11:46):
So great question.
So they might, their highschool might have sports
medicine and they couldparticipate in that.
Their high school might alsohave something called HOSA,
which is like a competitivehealthcare competition, but they
meet monthly or depending onthe school and when they're
programmed.
There's also, like theUniversity of Arizona offers, a
(12:10):
program called Saturday Scrubsand it's in downtown Phoenix so
students can go.
It's once a month and if theycomplete I think it's seven
sessions, that will actually geta certificate at the end and
then they'll get a set of scrubs.
But each monthly meeting it'sthree hours but they're going to
get exposure to perhaps onemonth that might be an OBGYN,
(12:32):
the next month that might be aneurosurgeon who's talking about
brain surgery.
The following month it's reallycool.
It is a really cool, it's agreat opportunity.
Cameron might even enjoy that.
It's wonderful.
I've had students that haveparticipated and they're like,
oh my gosh, I had no idea aboutthe endocrinology, about what
the endocrine system does, andnow I'm really interested in
(12:53):
that and my brother has diabetes.
Just the exposure that it cangive to them, which then
provides some depth.
And when they're applying toschool, if they're applying to,
let's just say they have, ifthey're gonna be applying as a,
there's something called aBachelor's of Science, a BSMD
program, which is more ofaccelerated program.
Well, those are verycompetitive.
(13:15):
In fact, the University ofArizona selected five students
of 320 applicants last year.
So to be a competitiveapplicant in a process like that
, there are things that schoolsare gonna wanna see from you on
the way.
That's really neat.
So, like MIT likes to see mathcompetitions and they like to
see students take computerscience, and sometimes students
(13:36):
have to go outside their comfortlevel of what's available
within their school to backfilland support those interests if
they're not available to them.
Danielle Tantone (13:45):
Yeah, what if somebody's interested in more
of like the arts, like, let'ssay they're in musical theater?
What would you short of likebeing involved in musical
theater in high school?
What?
Shawn Coates (13:53):
So I actually had just an amazing student this
last admission cycle who I'vebeen working with for a couple
of years and I actually workedwith his older brother as well
and he, when he would, he wasparticipating in like local
community theater as well astheater and high school, and
when he would talk about hisperformances he was.
You could just see that hewould.
(14:14):
That would light up.
Danielle Tantone (14:16):
I saw you light up, but I'm just thinking
about it.
Shawn Coates (14:18):
Oh, yes, and he.
It was so funny because we keptdoing assessments over a set.
I think we ended up doingprobably five assessments, which
is more than I usually do.
Usually four is pretty good.
But he kept defaulting thathe's good in math and science
and so he wanted to pursueengineering and I ended up.
(14:40):
I don't recall the exact momentwhen he said I think I'm gonna
explore musical theater, but Ikept encouraging it because I
could just see that that wassuch a gift and thankfully he
has the most amazing support ofparents, because some parents
will be like, oh my God, that's,you're gonna be a starving
artist and you're never gonnamake any money and you're gonna
be living in my basement untilyou're 35.
(15:00):
And his parents really were.
They could see that that washis gift too and it was.
It's such a rewarding like Ilove what I do because it is so
rewarding.
But I remember his dad said tome I went to go see one of his
performances and his dad said tome thank you so much for giving
him the space to be comfortableand to really explore his gifts
(15:26):
.
And we are so happy for him sohe this happened I wanna say
just about maybe not even a yearago, because we had to shift
his whole college list based onmusical theater programs versus
engineering.
And so he's going to LoyolaMarymount.
Danielle Tantone (15:43):
I'm very excited for him Nice, nice.
Yeah, I can relate to that verymuch, and there's so many ways
to look at that too that I thinkit's sad when people have to
suppress their gifts and go awaythat they're not.
But at the same time I majoredin musical theater my first year
of college at U of A.
(16:03):
At the same time I think thatone thing I wasn't aware of back
then is how creative, how muchcreativity you can have in all
different and like in business,for example.
I wish I would have for me.
It wasn't the right thing to.
I didn't stick with musicaltheater and there's a whole
(16:24):
story to that, but I wish I hadrealized how much my creative
interest could have beenapplicable to other things In
other areas.
So that's, another thing.
Shawn Coates (16:35):
Well, and we actually the student and I
talked about that because Itried to explain to him that
because he's a theater student,he's used to handling
disappointment and rejectionKiller base, yes, and those are
skills that are oftentimesmissing in the workplace.
(16:55):
So a student who's been a highperforming math and science
student, the first time they geta D or the project doesn't go
the way that it's supposed to goand they can, only they're
thinking linear, they're notthinking creatively to problem
solve.
Those are skills that can becross utilized upon graduation.
Danielle Tantone (17:15):
That's interesting.
That's an interesting aspect Ihadn't even thought of.
Yeah, there's so much you learnfrom theater, even the whole
acting thing.
We wear hats in life, like nomatter what we do.
Even if you don't have fivejobs, like I do, you wear and
you do have to act.
You do have to you speakdifferently when you're speaking
(17:38):
to your doctor or your kids,versus your best friend, versus
someone on the street, like it'sand that's okay.
That doesn't mean that you'renot being authentic, that's just
you play roles in life.
Shawn Coates (17:54):
Definitely I All.
Throughout college I worked inrestaurants and even after
college I worked in restaurants,and when you're on the floor,
you're definitely acting.
Danielle Tantone (18:04):
You're on, you are on you have to be on.
Shawn Coates (18:07):
And when I was a senior in college, I interned at
a law firm and when I wasapplying for it, the paralegal
said do you know why we decidedto interview you versus the
other applicants that we had?
And I said well, I have no idea.
I would like to say that it'sbecause of my outstanding grades
and experience.
And she said it's becauseyou've worked in restaurants.
(18:28):
Because we only hire people inour firm that have worked in
restaurants, because they knowhow to deal with all kinds of
people.
Danielle Tantone (18:34):
Yeah, you can deal with people yelling at you
or whatever the chef yelling atyou.
Yeah, because life is like that.
I mean, being a nurse is likethat.
You have patients that areunhappy, you have families that
are unhappy, you have or happy,but you have to be able to deal
with the gamut of human emotionand you care without bleeding
(18:58):
your heart.
So, yeah, that's interesting.
What I found in my life is that, because I'm about the same age
as you, I graduated from highschool in 92 and college in 96,
is just the similarity betweendifferent jobs.
Being a waitress and being arealtor and being a nurse is
(19:20):
really the same job.
You're cleaning up poop.
Sometimes it's a figurativekind of poop and sometimes it's
a literal kind of poop andyou're smiling and you're
listening to people andhopefully listening a little
more than you talk, which it'salways been a work in progress
for me and that's it.
That's it is.
You're serving people, but thena lot of other jobs are more
(19:46):
behind the scenes and there'sless of that service of people.
Shawn Coates (19:50):
Anyway, we got off track there, which I tend to do
Together, we are going to be introuble.
Danielle Tantone (19:55):
But that's OK , because there's no agenda here
.
We're just chatting and gettingto know you and sharing about
your business and your life.
So what did you do before?
How did you start at thisbusiness?
How many years ago now?
Shawn Coates (20:11):
So I've been in private practice for six years.
Prior to that, I was anadministrator at Sun Valley High
School in Mesa and I had thebest job ever because I worked
at a nine and a half monthcontract.
I worked one-on-one with highschool students.
I didn't have to do discipline,I got to help them prepare and
(20:33):
plan for their future and I washired to create and implement
programs.
So I oversaw all of our careerand technical education.
So I implemented a CNA programOn our campus.
I had a pharmacy technicianprogram.
I created a partnership withHome Depot and did construction,
had a construction.
Danielle Tantone (20:54):
You're such an innovator and mover and
shaker.
Shawn Coates (20:56):
That's awesome, Very cool.
Well, at that time it was 2010.
I had been a stay-at-home momand my husband and I were both
in real estate and that was nota good position to be in.
Danielle Tantone (21:07):
I wanted to talk.
We'll talk about that too,because as you know, I have a
history in real estate too.
Shawn Coates (21:12):
That's kind of funny.
I was searching for your email.
You and Doug must have had atransaction at one point.
I think we did so.
I was a stay-at-home mom,essentially, and I had this
wonderful principal who gave methis opportunity and said you're
going to figure things out andyou're going to get it done and
you'll implement it.
And there was a lot of movingpieces, especially when you're
(21:33):
working with career andtechnical education.
There's funding and you'reworking with the Arizona Board
of Nursing and you're workingwith the Arizona Board of
Education.
So it was a project, but Ireally, really enjoyed it.
And then I was able to focus onallowing students students that
thought they wanted to be anurse Well, let's participate in
the CNA program and let's seeif this is the reality.
(21:55):
Yeah, you can do it.
And sometimes students wouldsay thank you so much.
I know now that that's not whatI want, and I tell students all
the time it's just as importantto figure that out as it is to
figure out what you do want todo, because you don't want to do
what I did and decide yoursenior year in college that you
want to change your major andyou're already graduating
(22:16):
$46,000 in debt, and then you'regoing to have to go back to
school.
Danielle Tantone (22:18):
Or 30 years after high school, you decide to
go back to nursing school.
Shawn Coates (22:22):
There's nothing wrong with that.
My mom did that.
My mom and I graduated.
She graduated from nursingschool when I graduated from
college.
That's awesome yeah.
Danielle Tantone (22:31):
So where were we?
Ok, so you were working in thehigh school, and then how did
you decide to go from that toprivate practice?
Shawn Coates (22:37):
So, interestingly enough, I knew that my principal
was probably approaching timeto retire and he was just an
amazing individual to work with,and I felt like the district
wasn't supporting my role.
There were several other highschools in the valley that were
under the same umbrella, but Iwas the only career in technical
(22:59):
education assistant principalthat did post-secondary planning
, so I just felt like thedistrict was going to be well.
Actually, they came to me andsaid we're going to have you
work 12 months and we're notgoing to pay you anymore, and so
I definitely felt that therewas going to be some pushback
yeah.
(23:20):
So that was the straw that brokethe camel's back, and I'd
already been looking at class101's actually a franchise it's
out of.
I was going to ask you aboutthat.
It's out of Lexington, kentucky, and I had been looking at it
for about probably about closeto a year, and I literally found
it on a Google search on theway home from a trip to San
Diego and my husband and I weretalking about what could we do
(23:41):
where we could make more moneyand maybe not work as many hours
, and I probably, truth be told,work more hours and make less
money.
Danielle Tantone (23:47):
That's the way it usually happens when
you're an entrepreneur, becausethere's so many different facets
of the business besides justthe actual work you do 100%.
Shawn Coates (24:00):
And so I had already participated in a
discovery day with class 101.
And when the district came tome and said, 12-month contract,
same amount of money, I saidthat's my sign to pull the no.
Danielle Tantone (24:12):
That doesn't sound good to me.
Shawn Coates (24:14):
Yes, and at that same time, my oldest had just
graduated from high school.
He was in college, my secondson was going into his senior
year, and then I have a daughterwho was a junior, so it was a
perfect timing for me to launchand sitting at swim meets and
(24:36):
cheer competitions and whatnot,parents were always bending my
ear on what should I be doingfor college, and when I opened,
I immediately had eight clientsand I broke the franchise record
for the first month.
That's so great.
So it was, and that was not myintention.
Danielle Tantone (24:55):
You just have one of those personalities
where you're outgoing and you'refriendly and you're connected
with people, and so I think itlends itself, Because there's a
lot of there's a sales component.
You've got to sell yourservices and the ability to talk
to the kids.
It's a very complicated role.
You play.
Shawn Coates (25:14):
It is and probably to my franchisors a
disappointment.
I always say that I provide aservice.
If you feel my service isvaluable, I want you to.
I want to work with you, but Idon't want anyone to run away
from me in the grocery storebecause here's that lady that
keeps trying to sell collegeplanning.
So sales is my least favoritepart of the process.
(25:36):
I try to and I probably couldbe much better at it.
Danielle Tantone (25:44):
See, I think that why you're good at it is
because you connect with peopleinstead of trying to sell them
Nobody wants to be sold and youeducate them.
Like, even when we sat downwith you the first time we first
met you, we saw a presentationthat you did at the high school.
Oh, that's right.
And I was like oh, this lady hassome good information, and our
situation is that we have twofamilies my older daughters
(26:08):
there with my ex-husband, and sowe're divorced and we're each
remarried and we get alongreally well and we're both we
all four love those kids, but wehave four very different
personalities, and so I knew itwas not going to be easy,
especially for Cameron, ouroldest, to try to navigate all
of that and for us to help her,and so the fact that we were
(26:32):
able to all get in with you, andthen you not only won me over,
but then you won them the restof them over too.
Shawn Coates (26:40):
You have an amazing family and I don't know
how you all function as normallyand as cohesively as you do.
I could say you should write abook, but you have a cap.
That's funny.
But really I work with a lot offamilies and a lot of blended
families, and Cameron is soblessed and I tell her that.
Danielle Tantone (27:05):
I think she knows it, she does.
It's not always as easy asprobably she makes it look, but
I think mostly because,thankfully, we're all four
mature adults and, even thoughwe don't always see exactly eye
to eye, we all really do lovethose kids and we communicate
more by text than in person.
(27:27):
I think that's probably a key,even though texting can take the
emotion can be misconstrued.
I think in the beginning, whenwe first got divorced, that was
the easiest way.
We didn't want the emotion andwe were able to be pragmatic and
thankfully, yeah, we had tworelatively mature people that
(27:50):
put the kids before us anddidn't let ourselves get bogged
down with all the petty stuffthat I think sometimes can get
in the way.
Well, you do an amazing job,thank you thank you and you know
we're not perfect, but I feelblessed by our situation and I
feel blessed by the choice thatmy ex has been made in choosing
a mate and choosing a stepmom.
(28:11):
Like I, couldn't have dreamedup a better stepmom for my kids.
She's very different from me,but we really are pretty blessed
.
Shawn Coates (28:20):
I had a former mentor tell me that God puts
people in your life to help youunderstand who you want to be
and who you don't want to be.
Danielle Tantone (28:30):
That's neat that's neat, so okay.
So we got.
We talked about how you gotinto class 101.
So you bought the franchise,you broke the records and you're
just winning people over it.
Like I said, it was your warmthand your knowledge and all of
that that.
I was like you know what.
Whatever this costs, I think itwill be worth it for our sanity
(28:52):
because it'll take the emotionout of it.
Like I said earlier, you knowyou are an uninvolved.
We already have four parentswho are?
involved and you're this extra,you know, third party, fourth
party, fifth party.
Shawn Coates (29:07):
Well and I give the students.
The students have assignments,they have homework that they do
for me and there are someexpectations that they're going
to.
The program is only as good asthe students if the students put
forth the effort.
So you know, while we work ontest prep, if a student just
comes to class and does the testprep there but they don't do
(29:28):
any of the skills remediation athome, they're not gonna get as
much out of it and that's nodifferent than anything else in
life.
So I tell families that part ofthis is college and career
readiness and allowing thestudent to own the process.
If the student isn't owning theprocess and that very rarely,
rarely happens then there's areason.
And although I do collegeadvising, I will freely tell
(29:54):
students that not all studentsare meant to go to college and
not all students need to go tocollege, which sometimes parents
are like oh my God, I can'tbelieve.
You just said that.
But you know, my daughter'sboyfriend right now is going to
school for aircraft mechanic.
He'll be able to make sixfigures after going to school
for 18 months.
School wasn't his thing andthat's okay.
Danielle Tantone (30:18):
And I like to say life is long.
Like he may, in 10, 20 years,wanna go to college or not, lots
of successful entrepreneurs orpeople who are a specialty in a
certain area.
They don't need a four yeardegree to do that.
Shawn Coates (30:34):
Now I have to say that if my son, ryan listens to
this, he is going to be likeI've been telling you for years,
mom, I don't need a collegedegree.
Danielle Tantone (30:41):
And I'm like oh no, you're finishing.
Shawn Coates (30:42):
He's going to school to be a pilot, and they
don't need a four year degreeright now.
But when the airline industrygoes into its cycles and it
takes a downturn, the firstpilots that will be laid off are
the ones that don't have a fouryear degree.
Danielle Tantone (30:59):
Well, I will say there's.
I've always felt like there's avalue in a four year degree.
I know I, thankfully, wassomebody that liked school, but
I think that even if you don'tuse it, even if you go into
sales and marketing, even if youbecome a realtor and you don't
need that four year degree,there was a value in that whole
experience and in the things Ilearned and the learning, the
learning to learn, learning tostudy, Of course, the things I
(31:23):
studied I majored in journalismwith a minor in French and
obviously the journalism hasdefinitely come in handy.
Being able to write conciselyis a huge thing that most people
can't do in business,Absolutely.
But even the French minor Imean going studying abroad in
Paris, my junior year was, Imean, an experience that I'll
(31:43):
never forget.
I take it with me that Ilearned things that you can't
even I don't even know that Ilearned, you know it's just part
of me.
Shawn Coates (31:51):
Yes, and studying abroad was my biggest regret or
not studying abroad was mybiggest regret in college, so I
really encouraged all of mychildren to do that.
There's an author named JeffZalingo and he has a book that
it's called there's Life AfterCollege and he talks about you
(32:14):
are gonna make or break yourcollege experience based on the
opportunities that are presentedto you and that you take
advantage of.
Who you are is not going to bebased on where you go to college
.
It's what you do with yourexperience and I think that's
valuable.
Danielle Tantone (32:33):
I so agree with that.
I think that paying attentionto the cues and the things that
come your way is important inlife, and yeah, I think that
that is so true taking advantageof the experiences that you're
given.
Shawn Coates (32:48):
And so when I share that with students, some
students have wanted their wholelife to go to a school that has
a single digit admissions rates, and so, while we can target
that, we have to find otherschools and programs that the
students are gonna be happy withand enjoy so that they don't
feel like they didn't have anychoices.
Danielle Tantone (33:08):
Yeah, and I think it's so easy to get caught
up on.
Well, I wanna go to this oneevery like school or I wanna go
and or I absolutely do not wannago in state.
I was like that.
I didn't wanna go in state andhear it there.
I ended up going and I had awonderful experience.
So, yeah, I think it'simportant to keep your all
(33:28):
options open.
Shawn Coates (33:29):
I tell seniors, as we're going into well, your
daughter's going into her senioryear I tell them that fall of
senior year is about casting awide net so that they have
options and opportunities in thespring.
We don't have to make any bigdecisions now on.
You know the top schools thatthey're evaluating.
Well, I mean they have to knowwhere they're going to apply by,
ideally tomorrow.
Danielle Tantone (33:49):
But yeah, I was gonna say what is the
timeframe?
We're pretty, we're approachingit right?
Shawn Coates (33:54):
Well, they have until the middle of October,
truly, but August 1st is whenthe Common App opens, and so
that's when you'll start to hear.
Schools will start sending outemails.
You still have time to apply.
They put this like fear in theway yeah, like you gotta do it
right now.
Danielle Tantone (34:11):
You gotta do it right now.
Shawn Coates (34:12):
And then like no, we've got plenty of time, we're
not applying until everything isperfect, and so then they'll
have, they'll submit decisions,or they'll submit applications,
usually before November 1st, andthen they'll get their
decisions back, depending on theapplication they choose, which
will be evaluating thosedeadlines coming up.
(34:32):
Because there's early action,there's early decision.
Danielle Tantone (34:36):
Yeah, can you tell us a little bit about that
, cause I'm sure people who arelistening might have kids in
high school, certainly.
Shawn Coates (34:42):
So there are.
So early action is probably themost common.
That typically means thatstudents can apply early and
receive a decision earlier.
Usually that's applying byNovember 1st or November 15th
and then getting a decision backeither in the middle of
December or early January.
(35:03):
There's also early decision.
Early decision is a bindingdecision and students can only
apply early decision to oneschool.
With that there's a contract,so the students have to sign the
contract, the parents sign thecontract and the guidance
counselor at the school signsthe contract.
There is the expectation thatstudents will only apply to one
(35:27):
school early decision andsometimes savvy parents,
sometimes attorneys, will belike well, how are they gonna
know if I'm gonna apply to twodifferent schools?
Well, if you apply earlydecision to two different
schools and students areadmitted to two different
schools, both schools can rejectthat student's application
because there is someexpectation that you are going
(35:47):
to play fair by the rules.
Danielle Tantone (35:48):
It's kind of like making an offer on two
different properties in realestate.
Shawn Coates (35:51):
Like it's a contract, you're signing the
contract when you write theoffer, yes, yes, and the agent
shouldn't you know?
You just don't do that.
Now you play ethically.
And then there's rollingdecision, rolling decision and
ASU and U of A are both rollingdecisions.
So they, you submit yourapplication, you should receive
a decision back.
(36:12):
Sometimes it's two days,sometimes it's three to four
weeks, depending on theiradmissions officers and where
they're at with their evaluatingtheir pool.
And then there's regulardecision, and regular decision
is typically a later decision,usually January, sometimes
February, and then students willget a decision back shortly
after.
(36:32):
Okay, that's neat.
Danielle Tantone (36:34):
So what's the disadvantage of the early
decision, besides that you'repicking one school with Good
question?
Shawn Coates (36:41):
The disadvantage is that you have to be willing
to attend that university andprepared to attend that
university, regardless of whatyour scholarship or financial
aid offer is going to look like.
So students really need to dotheir due diligence and families
need to do due diligence tomake sure that that is going to
be the right decision.
So I had a student I usuallyonly have one or two students
(37:03):
that are going to apply earlydecision.
The students usually have avery good idea of what it's
going to cost and they'reprepared to pay that cost.
Danielle Tantone (37:10):
So what if, let's just say they apply to an
Ivy League school and they applyearly decision and then they
get the package and for whatever, let's say, their situation
changed or the parents just sayno or whatever that happens?
Then what?
They can cancel their contractor how, yes they essentially?
Shawn Coates (37:30):
I mean, at the end of the day, no one's going to
come in with a white suit in themiddle of the night and capture
the child.
It usually has to be explainedthat things have changed and
this happens.
I had a family a couple ofyears ago where the dad was an
attorney and he was making greatmoney and then he lost his job
(37:51):
and he wasn't prepared to pay$74,000 without having
employment to go to Duke, and sothat was a disadvantage.
His son was deeply disappointed.
At the end of the day, he hadbackup plans and it can be
explained.
Danielle Tantone (38:06):
So you really shouldn't apply early decision
unless you really are in thatposition to do that.
That's tough, it's tough toknow and it's tough to like, you
know.
I know we can use Cameron as anexample.
I know she really would love togo to Brown.
That's one of the Ivy Leagueschools and they don't offer
merit scholarships.
(38:26):
They only offer need-basedscholarships.
And because of our familydynamic and even if it was,
frankly, even if it was just myfamily, like I mean, I don't
make, I'm not making it rich asa nurse and an author and stuff,
but we're not I keep tellingCameron we're really not going
to qualify for much financialbased.
(38:48):
We're pretty much middle class,you know.
Shawn Coates (38:50):
And that's so disheartening for students when
they've worked like like Cameronhas worked so hard.
And then it comes down to formany of the universities the
ones that take the CSS profileand are going to look at your
financial situation it thestudents who can afford to pay
full price are definitely at anadvantage.
(39:11):
There was just an article thatwas published over the weekend
so there's a lot of chatter onit, but there was a study that
was done at your most eliteinstitutions and how, the more
by the way, what is full pricethese days?
Danielle Tantone (39:26):
Just give us a range for.
Shawn Coates (39:27):
Ivy.
Danielle Tantone (39:27):
League versus even the state schools are way,
way more than they were 30years ago.
Shawn Coates (39:31):
So ASU and U of A are 30, 30 and 31,000 for
in-state students.
Even that's crazy and that'stuition, room and board and fees
.
Okay, now I have a student whois going to Vanderbilt this next
cycle and the cost ofattendance.
And when they calculate thecost of attendance they are
calculating in tuition fees,room and board, travel expense,
(39:54):
books, all of their additionaltechnology fees and whatnot, and
her cost of attendance was91,000.
So it varies greatly.
The students, who manyuniversities will have
initiatives where, if let's justsay, the family and in your
(40:15):
case it's you're remarried andyour ex-husband is remarried and
so they're taking intoconsideration for professionals
income, some of you.
So, going back on that, somestudents, some universities will
have an affordabilityinitiatives where families who
make less than, let's just say,200 or 250,000, they're going to
(40:35):
get a tuition essentially it'sa tuition discount is what you
want to look at it as, but thestudents, that families that
collectively have a higherincome Right.
Danielle Tantone (40:47):
Well, and what's crazy is that 200,000 for
between four people is actuallynot not a very high income at
all.
And especially if, how do theyexpect someone who's only making
200,000 to pay $91,000 a year?
If you only make 200,000 andyou've been living off that for
all your regular home and youknow expenses Right?
Shawn Coates (41:07):
it's not.
It's not realistic, it doesn'teven make sense.
Danielle Tantone (41:09):
How can you add you know half your income
Right and they're looking at.
Shawn Coates (41:15):
they're calculating that and it might
sound like a bit of a conspiracytheorist in a way, but I
personally believe theycalculate it for two reasons
they want to see if the studentcan afford to sustain their
enrollment at the university,because the universities are
businesses, first, and they'reeducational institutions second.
And they want to know you know,can Cameron afford to to, if
(41:38):
you, if you sold all your assets, and they would expect you know
we have rental property.
So when my children do the theFAFSA or I do the FAFSA with
them, they would expect us tosell all of our rental
properties and to deplete ourassets in order to pay for
college.
And that's not necessary orrealistic and or a good return
(42:00):
on your investments, right?
So there are many other optionsand there are some schools that
, as we've discussed withCameron, you know where students
can get paid to go to school?
Danielle Tantone (42:10):
Yes, I want to talk about that because that
is just to me.
You know, you said earlier,like Cameron's worked so hard,
she she's worked so hard to.
So I feel like she should takeadvantage of any merit based
scholarships available.
So tell us about this nationalmerit scholarship program.
Shawn Coates (42:30):
So she has a score on.
So it's based on the nationalmerit is based on the PSAT that
students take in October oftheir junior year and it will
actually be announced inSeptember, like right at shortly
after Labor Day.
So essentially, the nationalmerit scholarship foundation
takes 11 months to evaluate whowill be identified.
(42:54):
It's there identifying the tophalf of the top 1% of juniors
nationwide that took that testCameron's score and it's based
on an index score, which is kindof silly because it's a.
It's a score that's broken downfrom English or essentially,
reading, writing and math.
They multiply it, they take theindex score.
(43:15):
It's out of now I'm going tosound like I can't remember if
it's out of 36 or 38.
I want to say 38.
And then they add them.
I'll add those three digitstogether and they multiply it by
two.
That's the student's indexscore.
Wow, in Arizona it's usuallyaround for a finalist.
It's usually around 216 to 218,but it depends on how Arizona
(43:36):
students do and it depends onhow students do nationwide.
So, having said that, if youlive in New Jersey, the index
score could be 226.
If you live in Mississippi, itcould be 203.
So it varies, it is, but it isa top accolade that students can
earn and it can open the doorsfor some scholarships, not only
(43:57):
from additional universities butalso from the National Merit
Scholarship Foundation.
So we are anticipating that shewill be identified as a
national merit.
And then there's some otherthings that students have to do
as far as verifying it.
There's a form they have tofill out they're high school and
send in, and there are someschools across the country, as
(44:19):
we've talked about theUniversity of Alabama that will
pay students the National Meritstudents to go to school.
So the University of Alabamahas more national merit scholars
on their campus than any otherschool in the country, and it's
because students can literallyget paid to go to school.
Danielle Tantone (44:34):
So they have proactively created a program to
draw those high caliberstudents to their school.
I think it's brilliant and it'sso amazing.
When I found out about that, Imean go into it that a little
bit.
I had it open on my computer.
I know it's free room, it'stuition room and board plus a
stipend.
A stipend Plus they pay for youto do a study abroad, which we
(44:55):
talked about.
The value of that, yes, therewas a couple other things.
It's just an amazingopportunity.
Shawn Coates (45:01):
Now, august 1st is kind of the date where things
reset.
We don't anticipate themchanging or the institution
changing their scholarship,because it is so it's regarded
nationally.
It's a wonderful opportunityfor students.
And then you put all thosenational merit students on
campus together and they canliterally change the world.
Danielle Tantone (45:24):
Totally, and so she knows there's going to be
that handful.
How many do you think they drawon a annual?
Shawn Coates (45:31):
basis.
That's a good question, and I'ma couple hundred OK.
Danielle Tantone (45:34):
So that's pretty awesome too, because I
know that's a big concern is shewants to be surrounded by other
people who are of herintellectual caliber and open
minded.
Shawn Coates (45:45):
Well, and I think there are other schools like the
University of South Carolina isone that I've suggested to her.
They and I literally showed herthat she'll get in state
tuition.
She'll get her meritscholarship.
There's other scholarships thatwill stack on top of it.
She's not going to get paid,but she's also probably not
going to have to pay, so that'spretty awesome, texas.
Danielle Tantone (46:05):
Tech has a program.
When you look at you know 80,90 thousand dollars as what
she's saving.
That's a huge.
That's like getting a job thatpays a hundred thousand dollars
a year.
Shawn Coates (46:14):
I mean definitely and the and just the
opportunities that she'll havealong the way, and especially
for students who are consideringgraduate school whether you
know they're going up, they eventend to go to law school or get
their MBA or go to medicalschool.
It's important for students tomake their undergraduate
education as affordable aspossible, because there are far
(46:38):
fewer scholarships for forgraduate level.
Danielle Tantone (46:43):
So that sounds like A pretty amazing
program.
Shawn Coates (46:46):
Yes, and having worked with several students
that you know that choose to goand apply to universities all
across the country for a varietyof reasons I can give.
I can usually give students agood idea of what they can
expect, the cost, before theyapply, and I think it's really
important for for families tounderstand that, because the
(47:07):
last thing I want a student todo is to fall in love with the
university and then it's notgoing to be an affordable option
.
And I remember cautioning herbefore.
I'm like when, before she wentto Brown, I was like you're
going to love it, just becareful.
Yeah.
Danielle Tantone (47:20):
And it's hard to be as her mom, because I,
like, on one hand, there's oneside of me that's like you know
what, if that's what you want, Iwill find a way to pay for it.
I will build my business.
It'll just be that much moremotivation for me.
We'll make it happen together.
I, you know unicorns andrainbows.
That's, that's my yes.
Go to.
I'm a yes person.
Yes, yes, yes.
(47:40):
But when then?
When you, when you put thatnext to what we just talked
about, it doesn't even make anysense, like it's we would be
crazy to do.
Shawn Coates (47:51):
Well, and these are.
We're talking aboutscholarships that are automatic,
that students willautomatically be evaluated for,
and they're automatically upthere.
They get in too right, so yes,so there's a, there's an
application that needs to goalong with it but to verify.
But there are also competitivescholarships that students can
(48:13):
apply for, and so we are lookingat some other schools where she
could you know she will be acompetitive applicant, but it's
a competitive process.
So, for example, I I know shewants to be East Coast or West
Coast and and so here I amsuggesting a school that's in
the middle of the country.
But St Louis University is oneof my very favorite schools.
(48:35):
In fact, pre-pandemic my sonwas attending their Parks
College of Engineering and theyoffer phenomenal opportunities
and they are only going to lookat one family's income and they
will award grants.
So she'll be, and I haveseveral.
Well, I have a couple ofstudents there right now.
(48:56):
One of them is on apresidential scholarship, so his
tuition is fully covered.
Now he is paying room and board, but he's also been applying
for other scholarships andgrants that help cover that.
So I want to say, when you lookat the sticker price for that
university, it's probably closerto 60,000.
And I should know, since I waspaying it a couple of years ago.
(49:17):
But but I think he's paying6,000 to go there.
It's a lot less.
Yeah, so, and it's a phenomenaluniversity in this.
I don't know.
I love the city of St Louis,but I'm I've never been there.
Danielle Tantone (49:33):
I'm from the West.
Yeah, yeah, I think you know,cameron, and probably most high
school students don't reallyknow what they don't even know.
They don't.
They don't even know what's outthere.
I barely do.
I mean, I'm in my forties and Istill haven't even been to St
Louis or been to a lot of theseplaces.
I think it's so easy to get anidea in our mind of what we
think we want and to to closeourselves off to opportunities.
(49:58):
You know, alabama just soundslike I come from.
Alabama like just you.
Just you don't know what kindof people are in Alabama, but
the reality is, if, especiallywith this program, it's going to
be people from all over theplace, it's not going to be just
people from Alabama.
Shawn Coates (50:16):
No, it's going to be people that, and it's going
to be people that have, that arehigh achieving students that
are also seeking to beresponsible stewards of their
investment and and are takingand take a look at that.
There was something that youjust said that I wanted to
revisit, and now I now I lost mytrain of thought.
(50:37):
It's oh, I know what it was.
So, especially with socialmedia and teenagers today, they
think everyone's life isabsolutely perfect, and I
remember seeing this image onFacebook and I talked to
students about this all the timewhen you see this picture of
this beautiful shiny applethat's looking in a mirror and
(51:00):
you see the reflection of thebeautiful shiny apple, but if
you are behind it, you see thatthe apples cord out on the other
side and rotting, and sostudents today think, um, think
everyone else is going to havegreater opportunities,
everything's better in theirworld than in their own, and the
reality is that's simply nottrue.
Danielle Tantone (51:23):
That is a good truth, very true for all of
us.
Shawn Coates (51:27):
Well, it's funny.
I was telling Cameron when Isaw her last week.
I said, as we start to go intothis process, the senior year is
approaching.
Sometimes students get anxious,like all their friends are
going to have everything figuredout and they all know, are
going to know where they want toapply and she's still
evaluating.
I said you are 95 percent aheadof all of your classmates.
(51:48):
You have a resume.
You have a rough draft of yourcollege essay.
We have been working on yourcommon app.
You're going into your senioryear with that complete.
You have colleges on your list.
I promise you that if youpulled your friends other than
in-state that you're probablynot going to have an idea of
where else they're going to be,applying.
Danielle Tantone (52:07):
Yeah, and that's the truth.
So in-state there are somereally good opportunities here
in-state?
Shawn Coates (52:14):
right, there are, yes, I mean.
What's interesting is thatArizona students tend to think
especially high-achievingArizona students tend to think
I've worked so hard throughouthigh school, asu and U of A
admit anyone and that meansthey're not at top school.
(52:35):
And that is absolutely not true.
The Barrett Honors College isthe top honors college in the
country.
I'm sure everyone's tired inthe Valley of seeing the number
one in innovation and there arephenomenal opportunities that
are available.
It's just that our in-state,our constitution, dictates that
(52:56):
Arizona students should have theright to attend an Arizona
university and if they meetminimum requirements they are
admitted.
So we have a high acceptancerate.
That does not equate to becausewe have a high acceptance rate,
no.
Danielle Tantone (53:09):
I found it.
I was shocked.
When I first arrived at U of Aall those years ago and my
roommate was from California.
I was like, wait what you choseto come to Arizona from
California, why would anyone dothat?
Because I grew up thinking, youknow, we lived.
I wanted to live anywhere else,frankly, and then I did.
After college, I graduated, Iwent to Concord, new Hampshire,
(53:31):
which is about as far in everyway from Arizona, and I realized
then that I had grown up in aparadise of sorts.
Despite the heat that I like tocomplain about and all the
things, the lack of the fourseasons it really is a beautiful
place, a beautiful state, andthose schools offer really
(53:53):
amazing scholarships for topperforming students don't they,
they do.
Yeah, cameron's not willing toconsider it.
Of course we'll choose oneschool for it.
Shawn Coates (54:02):
We absolutely require yeah, we never know what
can happen, and so it's veryimportant to apply, have an
in-state backup plan.
But and the students are goingto make the most out of their
it's what they do when they'rein college.
They're either going to make orbreak their college experience
based on their level ofengagement.
(54:22):
And a couple years ago I had astudent who was very similar in
academic profile to Cameron andshe was a Hamilton high school
student, top of her class.
She was waitlisted at Notre Dameand waitlisted at Duke and was
rejected by USC and that was hernumber one school, number one
school.
So she went to U of A with theshe'd be grudgingly attended at
(54:45):
U of A.
Her freshman year she rushedand she got involved in some
different things but she wantedto transfer and so going, you
know.
So going into her sophomoreyear she reapplied to USC and
she was admitted and she was soI mean just elated.
But after she evaluated heroptions and was realistic and
(55:09):
unemotional about it, sherealized she could get two
degrees from U of A, graduate,debt-free, go on to.
She has wonderful internships,essentially why it didn't make
sense to pay, you know, close to$75,000 to go to USC without
(55:29):
you know and be full pay no youcan go get a job in California
if you want to after college andget paid twice as much Like
that doesn't make any sense.
And it was.
It was really hard for her.
Her parents said we'll pay ifshe wants to.
She's going to have to get someskin in the game, but we'll.
We'll pay if this is what sheultimately wants.
And I think it was veryempowering for her to evaluate
(55:50):
that not and I helped her withthe evaluation and and we looked
at it pragma, pragmaedly and inthe end, when she decided, she
decided her quality of life wasjust better here and it wasn't
worth the investment.
Now she'll always be able tosay that she was admitted to USC
Exactly.
Danielle Tantone (56:08):
Well, I wish we could chat some more, but our
time here is up.
Sean, how can people find youif they're interested in talking
to you about your services orif they want to engage with you
on social media or whatever?
Shawn Coates (56:20):
Certainly so I.
My website is class101.com.
Slash Mesa Gilbert.
I'm on Facebook as Sean GaylordCoates and I have an Instagram
which is class 101 Mesa Gilbert.
Probably the easiest way isjust through the website and
emailing me or reaching out tomy phone.
(56:40):
Sounds great.
What's your email address?
It's S Coates, c-o-a-t-s.
There's no E in Coates for meat class101.com Awesome.
Danielle Tantone (56:51):
Well, thank you for being here with me today
, sean.
I enjoyed chatting with you andI think we could chat about so
many other things, and pleaselike follow the podcast.
Piece of Work with DanielleTantone, and my book is
available on Amazon.
Piece of Work, if you'reinterested.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for inviting me.
Hi there.
Welcome to Piece of Work, thepodcast.
I'm Danielle Tantone.
I'm a nurse, author, coach andsurvivor.
I love inspiring people to livetheir best life, reach for
those big dreams and find joyeven in the pain.
As I wrote my memoir over somany years, trying to make sense
of a story where I was way toooften the bad guy instead of the
(00:29):
hero, I came to understand thatwe are all a piece of work, but
we're also a work in progress,and even in our messiness we are
a work of art too.
All at the very same time, infact, we are all beautifully
unique pieces of one masterpiecewaves in the same ocean.
This podcast will explore thestories and struggles that make
(00:51):
us human, the miracles thatsurround us and all the ways we
work to make sense of it all.
Welcome to Peace of Work, thepodcast.
Welcome back to Peace of Work.
I'm Danielle Tantone, and todayI'm here with my friend, Shawn
Coates.
She has a business called Class101, mesa Gilbert, and she
(01:12):
works one-on-one with highschool students to help them
through the college planningprocess.
She can talk about it way moreeloquently than me, so I'm going
to let her introduce herself.
I wanted to just say that Ihave gotten to know her just a
little bit through my daughter,cameron, who has been going
through her program, and havebeen really impressed with
(01:33):
everything that she knows.
Shawn Coates (01:35):
So, Shawn, thanks for being here with me today.
Thank you very much forinviting me, so you want me to
introduce myself?
Danielle Tantone (01:42):
Yeah, do a little better job than I just
did of telling us who you are.
You did a good job.
Shawn Coates (01:47):
And how you got into it.
So my name is Sean Coates and Iown Class 101, mesa Gilbert.
I am an independent educationalconsultant and I work
one-on-one, as you mentioned,with high school students and
their families and helping themnavigate the complicated college
planning process.
I help with everything from Ato Z and making sure that the
(02:07):
students don't miss anyopportunities that are available
to them.
And how I got into this businesswas when my own children were
going through the collegeplanning process.
I was working as anadministrator at a high school
and I worked.
We didn't have counselors atour high school, so I was at a
charter school and I did all ofour post-secondary planning for
our students.
So I was doing careerassessments, making sure that
(02:30):
students were choosing the rightschool for the right reason,
looking at their return on theirinvestment and basically
walking them through the process.
And my oldest son, who's 24 andhe's now graduated from U of A,
when he was starting to explorethe college planning process, I
realized how frequently hisfriends and his friends'
(02:52):
families were missingopportunities along the way,
simply just because they weren'taware of them, and so I just
kind of started thinking abouthow I could help other kids, and
I suddenly, on Saturdaymornings, had six teenage boys
sitting around my kitchen tabledoing career assessments and
prepping for the SAT and ACT.
And it was kind of funnybecause it just kind of
(03:14):
naturally evolved.
And in fact one of my goodfriends and one of his friends'
moms said to me can I just payyou to do everything?
because Anthony and I are goingto kill each other over this
process and you know what you'redoing, and it's been 30 years
since I've applied to collegeand I don't understand the
process anymore.
Danielle Tantone (03:30):
Well, and it's so different.
Back when I applied to college,there was no internet, there
was like a book at school.
I mean, I definitely madedecisions with very little
information.
We didn't do college tours.
I think the first time I setfoot on U of A campus was the
first day of school there 100%,and it's kind of funny.
Shawn Coates (03:50):
My life has truly come full circle because I went
to college at the University ofSan Diego, I graduated in
$95,000, $46,000 in debt, and Ididn't know that I could have
gone to ASU for free, and so Ijust want students to be able to
make decisions with theinformation you know, have all
the information at theirdisposal so that they can look
(04:11):
at this from a financialstandpoint, because my life
would have been remarkablydifferent if I didn't graduate.
You know a grant that was 30years ago, but $46,000 in debt
then was a lot of money, a lotof money.
Danielle Tantone (04:23):
Yeah, back then, asu U of A was a couple
thousand dollars a year if youwere an in-state resident.
Shawn Coates (04:29):
Definitely.
It's not very expensive at all,definitely, and I graduated
with a degree in politicalscience and didn't intend to go
on to law school.
So if someone would have helpedme with the process, I would
have most definitely decidedthat I didn't want to go to law
school before I was a senior incollege.
So it's truly, my life hastruly come full circle and I
really enjoy helping studentsevaluate their options and their
(04:51):
opportunities, and it's mucheasier for me to have those
one-on-one conversations withstudents than it is for their
parents to have those one-on-oneconversations with students
even though they're veryimportant.
Danielle Tantone (05:04):
Yeah, I mean, you're like this outside
authority that knows stuff andisn't personally invested, and I
think that makes a hugedifference.
Shawn Coates (05:13):
It does, and when my own children were going
through the college planningprocess, they worked with
someone other than me because ofthe end of the day, I'm mom and
although this is what I doprofessionally and people pay me
handsomely to do it, at the endof the day I'm mom and the kids
don't want to talk about theirGPA or their test scores or
their career assessments withmom Right.
Danielle Tantone (05:33):
Right, at least all the time.
I absolutely see that.
So, yeah, it's such a process,and you listened to the
interview I did a couple ofweeks ago with Cameron and you
know it, just her, you know,she's not maybe the typical
student, although I think youwork with a lot of high caliber
students.
Shawn Coates (05:51):
I do.
But she has some, I think, somebeautiful gifts that are rare
and she, when she read the poemthat she wrote, it brought me to
tears, literally.
Danielle Tantone (06:03):
Like it gave me tears.
Shawn Coates (06:04):
Yes, and it was so raw and real and heartfelt and
I told, in fact, to my nextmeeting with her.
I said that has to go in yourapplication somewhere, totally,
and we're just going to figureout where that's going to go.
Danielle Tantone (06:16):
And that's her gift is being able to share
that emotion in a way that'suniversal.
That's what I told her.
Even watching that, I was likeeven watching her read it.
I was like I can relate to that, and it's been you know not
about the college process, butjust just having to lay yourself
bare and, you know, findsomething that's worth something
to these people that are tryingto judge you.
Shawn Coates (06:35):
Right that take 12 minutes to read your
application that you've workedon for the last, you know, year
and a half.
So yes, but she, but yeah, Itruly appreciated that.
In fact, I don't even know ifshe mentioned to you I gave her
a list of opportunities for likewriting competitions, so that
(06:57):
she could share some of her work.
Yeah, because that is truly agift.
But sometimes when studentshave and just individuals have
gifts like that, to put that towork makes it no longer a gift,
like I had a really good friendwho is a chef and she had her
own cooking.
In fact, I posted a picture ofthe crab cakes that I made with
(07:19):
the horse radish.
Danielle Tantone (07:20):
Oh, yes, I saw those.
Shawn Coates (07:22):
I almost taste them through the the yeah,
they're amazing, and I used to.
I used to teach wine classes.
She would teach the cookingpart and then I would come in
and teach wine pairings and itwas her business, was called
cooking for pleasure, and shewas teaching others how to make
those wonderful those dishes,those dishes.
And then it became so much workthat it was no longer pleasure
(07:43):
for her, so she ended up closingclosing her business.
Danielle Tantone (07:46):
That does happen sometimes, but hopefully
with writing, you know, I don't,I don't know how Cameron feels
about it, but when you have agift for writing, you kind of
want to, you kind of want peopleto read your words, I, I,
usually I agree, even if you'rean introvert, even you know it's
sort of that that gives youpleasure to to have people your
(08:08):
words touch people, so and Ithink that can be a great way
for others to connect andexpress Right yeah.
So besides, so what I started tosay was Cameron's maybe not the
typical student, but what?
What kind of are the mainthings that you see the students
struggling with?
Where are the main areas whereyou really dig in and help them?
Shawn Coates (08:27):
So you know, every student is unique and and it's
a really an individualizedapproach based on what the
students goals are or what thestudents sometimes students
don't have any goals.
I think most often studentscome in and they're like this is
the next phase of life that I'mexpected to go through.
I have no idea where to startor what I want to do, and it's
(08:48):
expensive and intimidating.
And my parents say I need to goto college.
But do I need to go to college?
And so we start withassessments, career assessments,
and we do several of them overtime because it helps the
student build confidence thathere's some things that I are
within my natural abilities andmy gifts and that I may want to
(09:09):
consider, consider exploring.
And oftentimes students willcome in and let's just say a
student's interested in nursing,because everyone knows what a
nurse does.
At least they think they do, atleast they think they do.
Danielle Tantone (09:24):
I had no idea what a nurse does before.
Shawn Coates (09:26):
I actually became one.
So it's kind of funny becausestudents will that's something
that they have exposure to, theyknow it's, you know, most
likely going to require a fouryear degree and they have a
vague idea of what what itrequires.
But they may not haveconsidered other.
I would call them like sisteroccupations or occupations that
overlap that they may want toconsider because because they
(09:50):
might enjoy that more thannursing.
And so we spend a lot of timelooking at different careers and
helping the students with okay,well, what is it that you like
about this?
What are the pros and what arethe cons?
And maybe we want to consideroccupational therapy, or can you
see yourself doing this for thenext 30 years, and it might
(10:11):
involve, you know, my sister's anurse and she is an
electational consultant as well,so there's other opportunities
and things that can come alongwith it.
So just try to help thestudents get a better
understanding so that they feelconfident with what they want to
go to college for.
Danielle Tantone (10:28):
And then what do you actually do with them?
So you mentioned assessments.
I know there's some prep forthe ACTs and the ACTs, but what
else?
In your meetings and in yourtime with them?
If you're with them, you knowwhat typically is the timeframe.
Tell us a little bit about thatand how often you meet with
them and stuff.
Shawn Coates (10:46):
So I meet with freshmen every eight weeks and
freshmen have different goalsthan you know sophomores,
juniors and seniors.
Freshman it's about you know,understanding the importance of
earning strong grades, takingthe right classes, taking
classes that are going to helpthem fulfill their interest
while they're in high school,making sure that they are
getting involved on campus.
Sophomores I meet with everysix weeks and then we start
(11:09):
talking about okay, you've beeninvolved on campus, you have
good grades, are you interestedin some leadership positions?
Some students are, somestudents aren't and just making
sure that they understand thisis what colleges these are the
colleges that you have on yourlist this is what they're going
to want to see from you to kindof build their exposure and
experience throughout theiractivities and also provide some
(11:33):
depth.
So if students I think they'reinterested in, let's just say,
medicine, there are activitiesthat they can get involved and
that will support that.
Danielle Tantone (11:42):
Like, for example, what would be if they
wanted to go into medicine?
What might they get involved in?
Shawn Coates (11:46):
So great question.
So they might, their highschool might have sports
medicine and they couldparticipate in that.
Their high school might alsohave something called HOSA,
which is like a competitivehealthcare competition, but they
meet monthly or depending onthe school and when they're
programmed.
There's also, like theUniversity of Arizona offers, a
(12:10):
program called Saturday Scrubsand it's in downtown Phoenix so
students can go.
It's once a month and if theycomplete I think it's seven
sessions, that will actually geta certificate at the end and
then they'll get a set of scrubs.
But each monthly meeting it'sthree hours but they're going to
get exposure to perhaps onemonth that might be an OBGYN,
(12:32):
the next month that might be aneurosurgeon who's talking about
brain surgery.
The following month it's reallycool.
It is a really cool, it's agreat opportunity.
Cameron might even enjoy that.
It's wonderful.
I've had students that haveparticipated and they're like,
oh my gosh, I had no idea aboutthe endocrinology, about what
the endocrine system does, andnow I'm really interested in
(12:53):
that and my brother has diabetes.
Just the exposure that it cangive to them, which then
provides some depth.
And when they're applying toschool, if they're applying to,
let's just say they have, ifthey're gonna be applying as a,
there's something called aBachelor's of Science, a BSMD
program, which is more ofaccelerated program.
Well, those are verycompetitive.
(13:15):
In fact, the University ofArizona selected five students
of 320 applicants last year.
So to be a competitiveapplicant in a process like that
, there are things that schoolsare gonna wanna see from you on
the way.
That's really neat.
So, like MIT likes to see mathcompetitions and they like to
see students take computerscience, and sometimes students
(13:36):
have to go outside their comfortlevel of what's available
within their school to backfilland support those interests if
they're not available to them.
Danielle Tantone (13:45):
Yeah, what if somebody's interested in more
of like the arts, like, let'ssay they're in musical theater?
What would you short of likebeing involved in musical
theater in high school?
What?
Shawn Coates (13:53):
So I actually had just an amazing student this
last admission cycle who I'vebeen working with for a couple
of years and I actually workedwith his older brother as well
and he, when he would, he wasparticipating in like local
community theater as well astheater and high school, and
when he would talk about hisperformances he was.
You could just see that hewould.
(14:14):
That would light up.
Danielle Tantone (14:16):
I saw you light up, but I'm just thinking
about it.
Shawn Coates (14:18):
Oh, yes, and he.
It was so funny because we keptdoing assessments over a set.
I think we ended up doingprobably five assessments, which
is more than I usually do.
Usually four is pretty good.
But he kept defaulting thathe's good in math and science
and so he wanted to pursueengineering and I ended up.
(14:40):
I don't recall the exact momentwhen he said I think I'm gonna
explore musical theater, but Ikept encouraging it because I
could just see that that wassuch a gift and thankfully he
has the most amazing support ofparents, because some parents
will be like, oh my God, that's,you're gonna be a starving
artist and you're never gonnamake any money and you're gonna
be living in my basement untilyou're 35.
(15:00):
And his parents really were.
They could see that that washis gift too and it was.
It's such a rewarding like Ilove what I do because it is so
rewarding.
But I remember his dad said tome I went to go see one of his
performances and his dad said tome thank you so much for giving
him the space to be comfortableand to really explore his gifts
(15:26):
.
And we are so happy for him sohe this happened I wanna say
just about maybe not even a yearago, because we had to shift
his whole college list based onmusical theater programs versus
engineering.
And so he's going to LoyolaMarymount.
Danielle Tantone (15:43):
I'm very excited for him Nice, nice.
Yeah, I can relate to that verymuch, and there's so many ways
to look at that too that I thinkit's sad when people have to
suppress their gifts and go awaythat they're not.
But at the same time I majoredin musical theater my first year
of college at U of A.
(16:03):
At the same time I think thatone thing I wasn't aware of back
then is how creative, how muchcreativity you can have in all
different and like in business,for example.
I wish I would have for me.
It wasn't the right thing to.
I didn't stick with musicaltheater and there's a whole
(16:24):
story to that, but I wish I hadrealized how much my creative
interest could have beenapplicable to other things In
other areas.
So that's, another thing.
Shawn Coates (16:35):
Well, and we actually the student and I
talked about that because Itried to explain to him that
because he's a theater student,he's used to handling
disappointment and rejectionKiller base, yes, and those are
skills that are oftentimesmissing in the workplace.
(16:55):
So a student who's been a highperforming math and science
student, the first time they geta D or the project doesn't go
the way that it's supposed to goand they can, only they're
thinking linear, they're notthinking creatively to problem
solve.
Those are skills that can becross utilized upon graduation.
Danielle Tantone (17:15):
That's interesting.
That's an interesting aspect Ihadn't even thought of.
Yeah, there's so much you learnfrom theater, even the whole
acting thing.
We wear hats in life, like nomatter what we do.
Even if you don't have fivejobs, like I do, you wear and
you do have to act.
You do have to you speakdifferently when you're speaking
(17:38):
to your doctor or your kids,versus your best friend, versus
someone on the street, like it'sand that's okay.
That doesn't mean that you'renot being authentic, that's just
you play roles in life.
Shawn Coates (17:54):
Definitely I All.
Throughout college I worked inrestaurants and even after
college I worked in restaurants,and when you're on the floor,
you're definitely acting.
Danielle Tantone (18:04):
You're on, you are on you have to be on.
Shawn Coates (18:07):
And when I was a senior in college, I interned at
a law firm and when I wasapplying for it, the paralegal
said do you know why we decidedto interview you versus the
other applicants that we had?
And I said well, I have no idea.
I would like to say that it'sbecause of my outstanding grades
and experience.
And she said it's becauseyou've worked in restaurants.
(18:28):
Because we only hire people inour firm that have worked in
restaurants, because they knowhow to deal with all kinds of
people.
Danielle Tantone (18:34):
Yeah, you can deal with people yelling at you
or whatever the chef yelling atyou.
Yeah, because life is like that.
I mean, being a nurse is likethat.
You have patients that areunhappy, you have families that
are unhappy, you have or happy,but you have to be able to deal
with the gamut of human emotionand you care without bleeding
(18:58):
your heart.
So, yeah, that's interesting.
What I found in my life is that, because I'm about the same age
as you, I graduated from highschool in 92 and college in 96,
is just the similarity betweendifferent jobs.
Being a waitress and being arealtor and being a nurse is
(19:20):
really the same job.
You're cleaning up poop.
Sometimes it's a figurativekind of poop and sometimes it's
a literal kind of poop andyou're smiling and you're
listening to people andhopefully listening a little
more than you talk, which it'salways been a work in progress
for me and that's it.
That's it is.
You're serving people, but thena lot of other jobs are more
(19:46):
behind the scenes and there'sless of that service of people.
Shawn Coates (19:50):
Anyway, we got off track there, which I tend to do
Together, we are going to be introuble.
Danielle Tantone (19:55):
But that's OK , because there's no agenda here
.
We're just chatting and gettingto know you and sharing about
your business and your life.
So what did you do before?
How did you start at thisbusiness?
How many years ago now?
Shawn Coates (20:11):
So I've been in private practice for six years.
Prior to that, I was anadministrator at Sun Valley High
School in Mesa and I had thebest job ever because I worked
at a nine and a half monthcontract.
I worked one-on-one with highschool students.
I didn't have to do discipline,I got to help them prepare and
(20:33):
plan for their future and I washired to create and implement
programs.
So I oversaw all of our careerand technical education.
So I implemented a CNA programOn our campus.
I had a pharmacy technicianprogram.
I created a partnership withHome Depot and did construction,
had a construction.
Danielle Tantone (20:54):
You're such an innovator and mover and
shaker.
Shawn Coates (20:56):
That's awesome, Very cool.
Well, at that time it was 2010.
I had been a stay-at-home momand my husband and I were both
in real estate and that was nota good position to be in.
Danielle Tantone (21:07):
I wanted to talk.
We'll talk about that too,because as you know, I have a
history in real estate too.
Shawn Coates (21:12):
That's kind of funny.
I was searching for your email.
You and Doug must have had atransaction at one point.
I think we did so.
I was a stay-at-home mom,essentially, and I had this
wonderful principal who gave methis opportunity and said you're
going to figure things out andyou're going to get it done and
you'll implement it.
And there was a lot of movingpieces, especially when you're
(21:33):
working with career andtechnical education.
There's funding and you'reworking with the Arizona Board
of Nursing and you're workingwith the Arizona Board of
Education.
So it was a project, but Ireally, really enjoyed it.
And then I was able to focus onallowing students students that
thought they wanted to be anurse Well, let's participate in
the CNA program and let's seeif this is the reality.
(21:55):
Yeah, you can do it.
And sometimes students wouldsay thank you so much.
I know now that that's not whatI want, and I tell students all
the time it's just as importantto figure that out as it is to
figure out what you do want todo, because you don't want to do
what I did and decide yoursenior year in college that you
want to change your major andyou're already graduating
(22:16):
$46,000 in debt, and then you'regoing to have to go back to
school.
Danielle Tantone (22:18):
Or 30 years after high school, you decide to
go back to nursing school.
Shawn Coates (22:22):
There's nothing wrong with that.
My mom did that.
My mom and I graduated.
She graduated from nursingschool when I graduated from
college.
That's awesome yeah.
Danielle Tantone (22:31):
So where were we?
Ok, so you were working in thehigh school, and then how did
you decide to go from that toprivate practice?
Shawn Coates (22:37):
So, interestingly enough, I knew that my principal
was probably approaching timeto retire and he was just an
amazing individual to work with,and I felt like the district
wasn't supporting my role.
There were several other highschools in the valley that were
under the same umbrella, but Iwas the only career in technical
(22:59):
education assistant principalthat did post-secondary planning
, so I just felt like thedistrict was going to be well.
Actually, they came to me andsaid we're going to have you
work 12 months and we're notgoing to pay you anymore, and so
I definitely felt that therewas going to be some pushback
yeah.
(23:20):
So that was the straw that brokethe camel's back, and I'd
already been looking at class101's actually a franchise it's
out of.
I was going to ask you aboutthat.
It's out of Lexington, kentucky, and I had been looking at it
for about probably about closeto a year, and I literally found
it on a Google search on theway home from a trip to San
Diego and my husband and I weretalking about what could we do
(23:41):
where we could make more moneyand maybe not work as many hours
, and I probably, truth be told,work more hours and make less
money.
Danielle Tantone (23:47):
That's the way it usually happens when
you're an entrepreneur, becausethere's so many different facets
of the business besides justthe actual work you do 100%.
Shawn Coates (24:00):
And so I had already participated in a
discovery day with class 101.
And when the district came tome and said, 12-month contract,
same amount of money, I saidthat's my sign to pull the no.
Danielle Tantone (24:12):
That doesn't sound good to me.
Shawn Coates (24:14):
Yes, and at that same time, my oldest had just
graduated from high school.
He was in college, my secondson was going into his senior
year, and then I have a daughterwho was a junior, so it was a
perfect timing for me to launchand sitting at swim meets and
(24:36):
cheer competitions and whatnot,parents were always bending my
ear on what should I be doingfor college, and when I opened,
I immediately had eight clientsand I broke the franchise record
for the first month.
That's so great.
So it was, and that was not myintention.
Danielle Tantone (24:55):
You just have one of those personalities
where you're outgoing and you'refriendly and you're connected
with people, and so I think itlends itself, Because there's a
lot of there's a sales component.
You've got to sell yourservices and the ability to talk
to the kids.
It's a very complicated role.
You play.
Shawn Coates (25:14):
It is and probably to my franchisors a
disappointment.
I always say that I provide aservice.
If you feel my service isvaluable, I want you to.
I want to work with you, but Idon't want anyone to run away
from me in the grocery storebecause here's that lady that
keeps trying to sell collegeplanning.
So sales is my least favoritepart of the process.
(25:36):
I try to and I probably couldbe much better at it.
Danielle Tantone (25:44):
See, I think that why you're good at it is
because you connect with peopleinstead of trying to sell them
Nobody wants to be sold and youeducate them.
Like, even when we sat downwith you the first time we first
met you, we saw a presentationthat you did at the high school.
Oh, that's right.
And I was like oh, this lady hassome good information, and our
situation is that we have twofamilies my older daughters
(26:08):
there with my ex-husband, and sowe're divorced and we're each
remarried and we get alongreally well and we're both we
all four love those kids, but wehave four very different
personalities, and so I knew itwas not going to be easy,
especially for Cameron, ouroldest, to try to navigate all
of that and for us to help her,and so the fact that we were
(26:32):
able to all get in with you, andthen you not only won me over,
but then you won them the restof them over too.
Shawn Coates (26:40):
You have an amazing family and I don't know
how you all function as normallyand as cohesively as you do.
I could say you should write abook, but you have a cap.
That's funny.
But really I work with a lot offamilies and a lot of blended
families, and Cameron is soblessed and I tell her that.
Danielle Tantone (27:05):
I think she knows it, she does.
It's not always as easy asprobably she makes it look, but
I think mostly because,thankfully, we're all four
mature adults and, even thoughwe don't always see exactly eye
to eye, we all really do lovethose kids and we communicate
more by text than in person.
(27:27):
I think that's probably a key,even though texting can take the
emotion can be misconstrued.
I think in the beginning, whenwe first got divorced, that was
the easiest way.
We didn't want the emotion andwe were able to be pragmatic and
thankfully, yeah, we had tworelatively mature people that
(27:50):
put the kids before us anddidn't let ourselves get bogged
down with all the petty stuffthat I think sometimes can get
in the way.
Well, you do an amazing job,thank you thank you and you know
we're not perfect, but I feelblessed by our situation and I
feel blessed by the choice thatmy ex has been made in choosing
a mate and choosing a stepmom.
(28:11):
Like I, couldn't have dreamedup a better stepmom for my kids.
She's very different from me,but we really are pretty blessed
.
Shawn Coates (28:20):
I had a former mentor tell me that God puts
people in your life to help youunderstand who you want to be
and who you don't want to be.
Danielle Tantone (28:30):
That's neat that's neat, so okay.
So we got.
We talked about how you gotinto class 101.
So you bought the franchise,you broke the records and you're
just winning people over it.
Like I said, it was your warmthand your knowledge and all of
that that.
I was like you know what.
Whatever this costs, I think itwill be worth it for our sanity
(28:52):
because it'll take the emotionout of it.
Like I said earlier, you knowyou are an uninvolved.
We already have four parentswho are?
involved and you're this extra,you know, third party, fourth
party, fifth party.
Shawn Coates (29:07):
Well and I give the students.
The students have assignments,they have homework that they do
for me and there are someexpectations that they're going
to.
The program is only as good asthe students if the students put
forth the effort.
So you know, while we work ontest prep, if a student just
comes to class and does the testprep there but they don't do
(29:28):
any of the skills remediation athome, they're not gonna get as
much out of it and that's nodifferent than anything else in
life.
So I tell families that part ofthis is college and career
readiness and allowing thestudent to own the process.
If the student isn't owning theprocess and that very rarely,
rarely happens then there's areason.
And although I do collegeadvising, I will freely tell
(29:54):
students that not all studentsare meant to go to college and
not all students need to go tocollege, which sometimes parents
are like oh my God, I can'tbelieve.
You just said that.
But you know, my daughter'sboyfriend right now is going to
school for aircraft mechanic.
He'll be able to make sixfigures after going to school
for 18 months.
School wasn't his thing andthat's okay.
Danielle Tantone (30:18):
And I like to say life is long.
Like he may, in 10, 20 years,wanna go to college or not, lots
of successful entrepreneurs orpeople who are a specialty in a
certain area.
They don't need a four yeardegree to do that.
Shawn Coates (30:34):
Now I have to say that if my son, ryan listens to
this, he is going to be likeI've been telling you for years,
mom, I don't need a collegedegree.
Danielle Tantone (30:41):
And I'm like oh no, you're finishing.
Shawn Coates (30:42):
He's going to school to be a pilot, and they
don't need a four year degreeright now.
But when the airline industrygoes into its cycles and it
takes a downturn, the firstpilots that will be laid off are
the ones that don't have a fouryear degree.
Danielle Tantone (30:59):
Well, I will say there's.
I've always felt like there's avalue in a four year degree.
I know I, thankfully, wassomebody that liked school, but
I think that even if you don'tuse it, even if you go into
sales and marketing, even if youbecome a realtor and you don't
need that four year degree,there was a value in that whole
experience and in the things Ilearned and the learning, the
learning to learn, learning tostudy, Of course, the things I
(31:23):
studied I majored in journalismwith a minor in French and
obviously the journalism hasdefinitely come in handy.
Being able to write conciselyis a huge thing that most people
can't do in business,Absolutely.
But even the French minor Imean going studying abroad in
Paris, my junior year was, Imean, an experience that I'll
(31:43):
never forget.
I take it with me that Ilearned things that you can't
even I don't even know that Ilearned, you know it's just part
of me.
Shawn Coates (31:51):
Yes, and studying abroad was my biggest regret or
not studying abroad was mybiggest regret in college, so I
really encouraged all of mychildren to do that.
There's an author named JeffZalingo and he has a book that
it's called there's Life AfterCollege and he talks about you
(32:14):
are gonna make or break yourcollege experience based on the
opportunities that are presentedto you and that you take
advantage of.
Who you are is not going to bebased on where you go to college
.
It's what you do with yourexperience and I think that's
valuable.
Danielle Tantone (32:33):
I so agree with that.
I think that paying attentionto the cues and the things that
come your way is important inlife, and yeah, I think that
that is so true taking advantageof the experiences that you're
given.
Shawn Coates (32:48):
And so when I share that with students, some
students have wanted their wholelife to go to a school that has
a single digit admissions rates, and so, while we can target
that, we have to find otherschools and programs that the
students are gonna be happy withand enjoy so that they don't
feel like they didn't have anychoices.
Danielle Tantone (33:08):
Yeah, and I think it's so easy to get caught
up on.
Well, I wanna go to this oneevery like school or I wanna go
and or I absolutely do not wannago in state.
I was like that.
I didn't wanna go in state andhear it there.
I ended up going and I had awonderful experience.
So, yeah, I think it'simportant to keep your all
(33:28):
options open.
Shawn Coates (33:29):
I tell seniors, as we're going into well, your
daughter's going into her senioryear I tell them that fall of
senior year is about casting awide net so that they have
options and opportunities in thespring.
We don't have to make any bigdecisions now on.
You know the top schools thatthey're evaluating.
Well, I mean they have to knowwhere they're going to apply by,
ideally tomorrow.
Danielle Tantone (33:49):
But yeah, I was gonna say what is the
timeframe?
We're pretty, we're approachingit right?
Shawn Coates (33:54):
Well, they have until the middle of October,
truly, but August 1st is whenthe Common App opens, and so
that's when you'll start to hear.
Schools will start sending outemails.
You still have time to apply.
They put this like fear in theway yeah, like you gotta do it
right now.
Danielle Tantone (34:11):
You gotta do it right now.
Shawn Coates (34:12):
And then like no, we've got plenty of time, we're
not applying until everything isperfect, and so then they'll
have, they'll submit decisions,or they'll submit applications,
usually before November 1st, andthen they'll get their
decisions back, depending on theapplication they choose, which
will be evaluating thosedeadlines coming up.
(34:32):
Because there's early action,there's early decision.
Danielle Tantone (34:36):
Yeah, can you tell us a little bit about that
, cause I'm sure people who arelistening might have kids in
high school, certainly.
Shawn Coates (34:42):
So there are.
So early action is probably themost common.
That typically means thatstudents can apply early and
receive a decision earlier.
Usually that's applying byNovember 1st or November 15th
and then getting a decision backeither in the middle of
December or early January.
(35:03):
There's also early decision.
Early decision is a bindingdecision and students can only
apply early decision to oneschool.
With that there's a contract,so the students have to sign the
contract, the parents sign thecontract and the guidance
counselor at the school signsthe contract.
There is the expectation thatstudents will only apply to one
(35:27):
school early decision andsometimes savvy parents,
sometimes attorneys, will belike well, how are they gonna
know if I'm gonna apply to twodifferent schools?
Well, if you apply earlydecision to two different
schools and students areadmitted to two different
schools, both schools can rejectthat student's application
because there is someexpectation that you are going
(35:47):
to play fair by the rules.
Danielle Tantone (35:48):
It's kind of like making an offer on two
different properties in realestate.
Shawn Coates (35:51):
Like it's a contract, you're signing the
contract when you write theoffer, yes, yes, and the agent
shouldn't you know?
You just don't do that.
Now you play ethically.
And then there's rollingdecision, rolling decision and
ASU and U of A are both rollingdecisions.
So they, you submit yourapplication, you should receive
a decision back.
(36:12):
Sometimes it's two days,sometimes it's three to four
weeks, depending on theiradmissions officers and where
they're at with their evaluatingtheir pool.
And then there's regulardecision, and regular decision
is typically a later decision,usually January, sometimes
February, and then students willget a decision back shortly
after.
(36:32):
Okay, that's neat.
Danielle Tantone (36:34):
So what's the disadvantage of the early
decision, besides that you'repicking one school with Good
question?
Shawn Coates (36:41):
The disadvantage is that you have to be willing
to attend that university andprepared to attend that
university, regardless of whatyour scholarship or financial
aid offer is going to look like.
So students really need to dotheir due diligence and families
need to do due diligence tomake sure that that is going to
be the right decision.
So I had a student I usuallyonly have one or two students
(37:03):
that are going to apply earlydecision.
The students usually have avery good idea of what it's
going to cost and they'reprepared to pay that cost.
Danielle Tantone (37:10):
So what if, let's just say they apply to an
Ivy League school and they applyearly decision and then they
get the package and for whatever, let's say, their situation
changed or the parents just sayno or whatever that happens?
Then what?
They can cancel their contractor how, yes they essentially?
Shawn Coates (37:30):
I mean, at the end of the day, no one's going to
come in with a white suit in themiddle of the night and capture
the child.
It usually has to be explainedthat things have changed and
this happens.
I had a family a couple ofyears ago where the dad was an
attorney and he was making greatmoney and then he lost his job
(37:51):
and he wasn't prepared to pay$74,000 without having
employment to go to Duke, and sothat was a disadvantage.
His son was deeply disappointed.
At the end of the day, he hadbackup plans and it can be
explained.
Danielle Tantone (38:06):
So you really shouldn't apply early decision
unless you really are in thatposition to do that.
That's tough, it's tough toknow and it's tough to like, you
know.
I know we can use Cameron as anexample.
I know she really would love togo to Brown.
That's one of the Ivy Leagueschools and they don't offer
merit scholarships.
(38:26):
They only offer need-basedscholarships.
And because of our familydynamic and even if it was,
frankly, even if it was just myfamily, like I mean, I don't
make, I'm not making it rich asa nurse and an author and stuff,
but we're not I keep tellingCameron we're really not going
to qualify for much financialbased.
(38:48):
We're pretty much middle class,you know.
Shawn Coates (38:50):
And that's so disheartening for students when
they've worked like like Cameronhas worked so hard.
And then it comes down to formany of the universities the
ones that take the CSS profileand are going to look at your
financial situation it thestudents who can afford to pay
full price are definitely at anadvantage.
(39:11):
There was just an article thatwas published over the weekend
so there's a lot of chatter onit, but there was a study that
was done at your most eliteinstitutions and how, the more
by the way, what is full pricethese days?
Danielle Tantone (39:26):
Just give us a range for.
Shawn Coates (39:27):
Ivy.
Danielle Tantone (39:27):
League versus even the state schools are way,
way more than they were 30years ago.
Shawn Coates (39:31):
So ASU and U of A are 30, 30 and 31,000 for
in-state students.
Even that's crazy and that'stuition, room and board and fees
.
Okay, now I have a student whois going to Vanderbilt this next
cycle and the cost ofattendance.
And when they calculate thecost of attendance they are
calculating in tuition fees,room and board, travel expense,
(39:54):
books, all of their additionaltechnology fees and whatnot, and
her cost of attendance was91,000.
So it varies greatly.
The students, who manyuniversities will have
initiatives where, if let's justsay, the family and in your
(40:15):
case it's you're remarried andyour ex-husband is remarried and
so they're taking intoconsideration for professionals
income, some of you.
So, going back on that, somestudents, some universities will
have an affordabilityinitiatives where families who
make less than, let's just say,200 or 250,000, they're going to
(40:35):
get a tuition essentially it'sa tuition discount is what you
want to look at it as, but thestudents, that families that
collectively have a higherincome Right.
Danielle Tantone (40:47):
Well, and what's crazy is that 200,000 for
between four people is actuallynot not a very high income at
all.
And especially if, how do theyexpect someone who's only making
200,000 to pay $91,000 a year?
If you only make 200,000 andyou've been living off that for
all your regular home and youknow expenses Right?
Shawn Coates (41:07):
it's not.
It's not realistic, it doesn'teven make sense.
Danielle Tantone (41:09):
How can you add you know half your income
Right and they're looking at.
Shawn Coates (41:15):
they're calculating that and it might
sound like a bit of a conspiracytheorist in a way, but I
personally believe theycalculate it for two reasons
they want to see if the studentcan afford to sustain their
enrollment at the university,because the universities are
businesses, first, and they'reeducational institutions second.
And they want to know you know,can Cameron afford to to, if
(41:38):
you, if you sold all your assets, and they would expect you know
we have rental property.
So when my children do the theFAFSA or I do the FAFSA with
them, they would expect us tosell all of our rental
properties and to deplete ourassets in order to pay for
college.
And that's not necessary orrealistic and or a good return
(42:00):
on your investments, right?
So there are many other optionsand there are some schools that
, as we've discussed withCameron, you know where students
can get paid to go to school?
Danielle Tantone (42:10):
Yes, I want to talk about that because that
is just to me.
You know, you said earlier,like Cameron's worked so hard,
she she's worked so hard to.
So I feel like she should takeadvantage of any merit based
scholarships available.
So tell us about this nationalmerit scholarship program.
Shawn Coates (42:30):
So she has a score on.
So it's based on the nationalmerit is based on the PSAT that
students take in October oftheir junior year and it will
actually be announced inSeptember, like right at shortly
after Labor Day.
So essentially, the nationalmerit scholarship foundation
takes 11 months to evaluate whowill be identified.
(42:54):
It's there identifying the tophalf of the top 1% of juniors
nationwide that took that testCameron's score and it's based
on an index score, which is kindof silly because it's a.
It's a score that's broken downfrom English or essentially,
reading, writing and math.
They multiply it, they take theindex score.
(43:15):
It's out of now I'm going tosound like I can't remember if
it's out of 36 or 38.
I want to say 38.
And then they add them.
I'll add those three digitstogether and they multiply it by
two.
That's the student's indexscore.
Wow, in Arizona it's usuallyaround for a finalist.
It's usually around 216 to 218,but it depends on how Arizona
(43:36):
students do and it depends onhow students do nationwide.
So, having said that, if youlive in New Jersey, the index
score could be 226.
If you live in Mississippi, itcould be 203.
So it varies, it is, but it isa top accolade that students can
earn and it can open the doorsfor some scholarships, not only
(43:57):
from additional universities butalso from the National Merit
Scholarship Foundation.
So we are anticipating that shewill be identified as a
national merit.
And then there's some otherthings that students have to do
as far as verifying it.
There's a form they have tofill out they're high school and
send in, and there are someschools across the country, as
(44:19):
we've talked about theUniversity of Alabama that will
pay students the National Meritstudents to go to school.
So the University of Alabamahas more national merit scholars
on their campus than any otherschool in the country, and it's
because students can literallyget paid to go to school.
Danielle Tantone (44:34):
So they have proactively created a program to
draw those high caliberstudents to their school.
I think it's brilliant and it'sso amazing.
When I found out about that, Imean go into it that a little
bit.
I had it open on my computer.
I know it's free room, it'stuition room and board plus a
stipend.
A stipend Plus they pay for youto do a study abroad, which we
(44:55):
talked about.
The value of that, yes, therewas a couple other things.
It's just an amazingopportunity.
Shawn Coates (45:01):
Now, august 1st is kind of the date where things
reset.
We don't anticipate themchanging or the institution
changing their scholarship,because it is so it's regarded
nationally.
It's a wonderful opportunityfor students.
And then you put all thosenational merit students on
campus together and they canliterally change the world.
Danielle Tantone (45:24):
Totally, and so she knows there's going to be
that handful.
How many do you think they drawon a annual?
Shawn Coates (45:31):
basis.
That's a good question, and I'ma couple hundred OK.
Danielle Tantone (45:34):
So that's pretty awesome too, because I
know that's a big concern is shewants to be surrounded by other
people who are of herintellectual caliber and open
minded.
Shawn Coates (45:45):
Well, and I think there are other schools like the
University of South Carolina isone that I've suggested to her.
They and I literally showed herthat she'll get in state
tuition.
She'll get her meritscholarship.
There's other scholarships thatwill stack on top of it.
She's not going to get paid,but she's also probably not
going to have to pay, so that'spretty awesome, texas.
Danielle Tantone (46:05):
Tech has a program.
When you look at you know 80,90 thousand dollars as what
she's saving.
That's a huge.
That's like getting a job thatpays a hundred thousand dollars
a year.
Shawn Coates (46:14):
I mean definitely and the and just the
opportunities that she'll havealong the way, and especially
for students who are consideringgraduate school whether you
know they're going up, they eventend to go to law school or get
their MBA or go to medicalschool.
It's important for students tomake their undergraduate
education as affordable aspossible, because there are far
(46:38):
fewer scholarships for forgraduate level.
Danielle Tantone (46:43):
So that sounds like A pretty amazing
program.
Shawn Coates (46:46):
Yes, and having worked with several students
that you know that choose to goand apply to universities all
across the country for a varietyof reasons I can give.
I can usually give students agood idea of what they can
expect, the cost, before theyapply, and I think it's really
important for for families tounderstand that, because the
(47:07):
last thing I want a student todo is to fall in love with the
university and then it's notgoing to be an affordable option
.
And I remember cautioning herbefore.
I'm like when, before she wentto Brown, I was like you're
going to love it, just becareful.
Yeah.
Danielle Tantone (47:20):
And it's hard to be as her mom, because I,
like, on one hand, there's oneside of me that's like you know
what, if that's what you want, Iwill find a way to pay for it.
I will build my business.
It'll just be that much moremotivation for me.
We'll make it happen together.
I, you know unicorns andrainbows.
That's, that's my yes.
Go to.
I'm a yes person.
Yes, yes, yes.
(47:40):
But when then?
When you, when you put thatnext to what we just talked
about, it doesn't even make anysense, like it's we would be
crazy to do.
Shawn Coates (47:51):
Well, and these are.
We're talking aboutscholarships that are automatic,
that students willautomatically be evaluated for,
and they're automatically upthere.
They get in too right, so yes,so there's a, there's an
application that needs to goalong with it but to verify.
But there are also competitivescholarships that students can
(48:13):
apply for, and so we are lookingat some other schools where she
could you know she will be acompetitive applicant, but it's
a competitive process.
So, for example, I I know shewants to be East Coast or West
Coast and and so here I amsuggesting a school that's in
the middle of the country.
But St Louis University is oneof my very favorite schools.
(48:35):
In fact, pre-pandemic my sonwas attending their Parks
College of Engineering and theyoffer phenomenal opportunities
and they are only going to lookat one family's income and they
will award grants.
So she'll be, and I haveseveral.
Well, I have a couple ofstudents there right now.
(48:56):
One of them is on apresidential scholarship, so his
tuition is fully covered.
Now he is paying room and board, but he's also been applying
for other scholarships andgrants that help cover that.
So I want to say, when you lookat the sticker price for that
university, it's probably closerto 60,000.
And I should know, since I waspaying it a couple of years ago.
(49:17):
But but I think he's paying6,000 to go there.
It's a lot less.
Yeah, so, and it's a phenomenaluniversity in this.
I don't know.
I love the city of St Louis,but I'm I've never been there.
Danielle Tantone (49:33):
I'm from the West.
Yeah, yeah, I think you know,cameron, and probably most high
school students don't reallyknow what they don't even know.
They don't.
They don't even know what's outthere.
I barely do.
I mean, I'm in my forties and Istill haven't even been to St
Louis or been to a lot of theseplaces.
I think it's so easy to get anidea in our mind of what we
think we want and to to closeourselves off to opportunities.
(49:58):
You know, alabama just soundslike I come from.
Alabama like just you.
Just you don't know what kindof people are in Alabama, but
the reality is, if, especiallywith this program, it's going to
be people from all over theplace, it's not going to be just
people from Alabama.
Shawn Coates (50:16):
No, it's going to be people that, and it's going
to be people that have, that arehigh achieving students that
are also seeking to beresponsible stewards of their
investment and and are takingand take a look at that.
There was something that youjust said that I wanted to
revisit, and now I now I lost mytrain of thought.
(50:37):
It's oh, I know what it was.
So, especially with socialmedia and teenagers today, they
think everyone's life isabsolutely perfect, and I
remember seeing this image onFacebook and I talked to
students about this all the timewhen you see this picture of
this beautiful shiny applethat's looking in a mirror and
(51:00):
you see the reflection of thebeautiful shiny apple, but if
you are behind it, you see thatthe apples cord out on the other
side and rotting, and sostudents today think, um, think
everyone else is going to havegreater opportunities,
everything's better in theirworld than in their own, and the
reality is that's simply nottrue.
Danielle Tantone (51:23):
That is a good truth, very true for all of
us.
Shawn Coates (51:27):
Well, it's funny.
I was telling Cameron when Isaw her last week.
I said, as we start to go intothis process, the senior year is
approaching.
Sometimes students get anxious,like all their friends are
going to have everything figuredout and they all know, are
going to know where they want toapply and she's still
evaluating.
I said you are 95 percent aheadof all of your classmates.
(51:48):
You have a resume.
You have a rough draft of yourcollege essay.
We have been working on yourcommon app.
You're going into your senioryear with that complete.
You have colleges on your list.
I promise you that if youpulled your friends other than
in-state that you're probablynot going to have an idea of
where else they're going to be,applying.
Danielle Tantone (52:07):
Yeah, and that's the truth.
So in-state there are somereally good opportunities here
in-state?
Shawn Coates (52:14):
right, there are, yes, I mean.
What's interesting is thatArizona students tend to think
especially high-achievingArizona students tend to think
I've worked so hard throughouthigh school, asu and U of A
admit anyone and that meansthey're not at top school.
(52:35):
And that is absolutely not true.
The Barrett Honors College isthe top honors college in the
country.
I'm sure everyone's tired inthe Valley of seeing the number
one in innovation and there arephenomenal opportunities that
are available.
It's just that our in-state,our constitution, dictates that
(52:56):
Arizona students should have theright to attend an Arizona
university and if they meetminimum requirements they are
admitted.
So we have a high acceptancerate.
That does not equate to becausewe have a high acceptance rate,
no.
Danielle Tantone (53:09):
I found it.
I was shocked.
When I first arrived at U of Aall those years ago and my
roommate was from California.
I was like, wait what you choseto come to Arizona from
California, why would anyone dothat?
Because I grew up thinking, youknow, we lived.
I wanted to live anywhere else,frankly, and then I did.
After college, I graduated, Iwent to Concord, new Hampshire,
(53:31):
which is about as far in everyway from Arizona, and I realized
then that I had grown up in aparadise of sorts.
Despite the heat that I like tocomplain about and all the
things, the lack of the fourseasons it really is a beautiful
place, a beautiful state, andthose schools offer really
(53:53):
amazing scholarships for topperforming students don't they,
they do.
Yeah, cameron's not willing toconsider it.
Of course we'll choose oneschool for it.
Shawn Coates (54:02):
We absolutely require yeah, we never know what
can happen, and so it's veryimportant to apply, have an
in-state backup plan.
But and the students are goingto make the most out of their
it's what they do when they'rein college.
They're either going to make orbreak their college experience
based on their level ofengagement.
(54:22):
And a couple years ago I had astudent who was very similar in
academic profile to Cameron andshe was a Hamilton high school
student, top of her class.
She was waitlisted at Notre Dameand waitlisted at Duke and was
rejected by USC and that was hernumber one school, number one
school.
So she went to U of A with theshe'd be grudgingly attended at
(54:45):
U of A.
Her freshman year she rushedand she got involved in some
different things but she wantedto transfer and so going, you
know.
So going into her sophomoreyear she reapplied to USC and
she was admitted and she was soI mean just elated.
But after she evaluated heroptions and was realistic and
(55:09):
unemotional about it, sherealized she could get two
degrees from U of A, graduate,debt-free, go on to.
She has wonderful internships,essentially why it didn't make
sense to pay, you know, close to$75,000 to go to USC without
(55:29):
you know and be full pay no youcan go get a job in California
if you want to after college andget paid twice as much Like
that doesn't make any sense.
And it was.
It was really hard for her.
Her parents said we'll pay ifshe wants to.
She's going to have to get someskin in the game, but we'll.
We'll pay if this is what sheultimately wants.
And I think it was veryempowering for her to evaluate
(55:50):
that not and I helped her withthe evaluation and and we looked
at it pragma, pragmaedly and inthe end, when she decided, she
decided her quality of life wasjust better here and it wasn't
worth the investment.
Now she'll always be able tosay that she was admitted to USC
Exactly.
Danielle Tantone (56:08):
Well, I wish we could chat some more, but our
time here is up.
Sean, how can people find youif they're interested in talking
to you about your services orif they want to engage with you
on social media or whatever?
Shawn Coates (56:20):
Certainly so I.
My website is class101.com.
Slash Mesa Gilbert.
I'm on Facebook as Sean GaylordCoates and I have an Instagram
which is class 101 Mesa Gilbert.
Probably the easiest way isjust through the website and
emailing me or reaching out tomy phone.
(56:40):
Sounds great.
What's your email address?
It's S Coates, c-o-a-t-s.
There's no E in Coates for meat class101.com Awesome.
Danielle Tantone (56:51):
Well, thank you for being here with me today
, sean.
I enjoyed chatting with you andI think we could chat about so
many other things, and pleaselike follow the podcast.
Piece of Work with DanielleTantone, and my book is
available on Amazon.
Piece of Work, if you'reinterested.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for inviting me.
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