January 14, 2021 • 61 mins
Welcome to Season Two of the Pink Granite Podcast!
In this episode, disability rights activist Alejandrina Guzman talks to Caitlin Smith about the nuances of supporting the disability community in Texas. Alejandrina's impressive resume includes being elected as the first Latina, and first disabled Student Government President at the University of Texas. Additionally, she has worked on numerous campaigns as well as an intern with the Mexican American Legislative Caucus.
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Thank you for listening!
Guest: Alejandrina Guzman
Host: Caitlin Smith
Editing: Amy Whited
Music: "Only the Brave Run Wild" Sounds Like Sander
Voice Talent: Sarah Keats
Executive Producer: Amy Whited
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caitlin Smith (00:25):
Hi, I'm Caitlin Smith, and I am guest hosting
this Pink Granite Podcast. TodayI am here with Alejandrina
Guzman. And we're gonna talkabout your life and your work
and the calls to action andthings that you are passionate
about.
Alejandrina Guzman (00:44):
Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.
Caitlin Smith (00:47):
You were your former UT student body president
and you're the first Latinastudent body president at UT.
And I think the first Big 12student body president with a
physical disability. And youcurrently work for the
Democratic, Texas DemocraticParty as the people with
disabilities constituencyorganizer.
Alejandrina Guzman (01:10):
Yes.
Caitlin Smith (01:11):
And so we met before, when I did a panel for a
conference, and I think we weretalking about being civically
engaged. And we were connectedby my my friend and your friend,
Henry Kellison, who has workedon several campaigns, and I
believe you met him in thatcapacity. But when we spoke
(01:34):
before, you were really talkingabout, kind of how to turn the
passions and the interests ofwomen specifically, but all
people might already have intosort of political activism and
using that as their entryway toget engaged. I think the point
of the discussions we hadbefore, which are still relevant
(01:56):
is sort of breaking down thosebarriers to entry for people to
start getting more politicallyactive or engaged with their
community, because I think a lotof people would like to raise
their voice and raise theirparticipation, but don't know
how to. And then I know, fortoday, you wanted to talk about
sort of calls to action, as wellas Disability Justice. And so I
(02:23):
know a lot of these interviews,we kind of start with, What's
your job? How did you get intothe Capitol and policy? But I
think with you, it might makemore sense to start with your
background? And how you sort ofturn that in to, to what you do
now?
Alejandrina Guzman (02:39):
Yes, thank you so much, first of all, for
giving me an opportunity to behere and tell my my story. For
me, I am from a small town inTexas, called Azle, which is by
Fort Worth. And I growing up, myparents were empowering. They
(03:05):
supported me and I was lucky tohave that. I'm the oldest of
four kids. And I have threeyounger brothers. And so I think
a lot of what I grew up with,and the way, you know, I was
taught how to, to propel myselfforward was because of my
family. And I actually didn'tthink I was going to leave Azle
(03:31):
at all. Just because I have adisability. I'm physically
disabled. And for me, I dependeda lot on my mom. And so when
college came up, I was notreally considering leaving my
hometown. It never really seemedlike an option. Until my senior
(03:54):
year of high school. And we hadat my high school, we had a
college advisor, the first timewe've ever had a person in that
position. And so because of herbecause of her she, man, I
cannot thank her enough becauseshe had asked me at one point
(04:18):
when I actually when I firstmet, where I wanted to go to
college, and I named a fewcolleges around the area. And I
guess she somehow saw myhesitation, asked me again, and
I said, Well, you know, maybe UTAustin but I'm not really sure.
And she said, Okay, we'll makeit happen. And that was like,
(04:39):
you know, the start ofeverything. And to kind of wrap
things in context. I didn'treally understand much of the
political sphere before gettingto Austin I was not as involved
I was not as politically engagedin in any form really, and now,
(05:02):
you know, looking, looking back,and now it's like, wow, I really
focused on, you know, survivingin Azle. And by that, I mean
that a lot of things that iscommon for disabled people
growing up, you know, is thisidea that you have to present
(05:23):
yourself as, like, nice or youhave to present yourself as
palatable to other people. Andthat gives you some room to be
yourself and, and kind of thiswhole idea of like, inspiring
people or motivating. And, and,you know, fast forward to now is
(05:43):
like, Oh my goodness, like thatis not, not okay. And I've
learned a lot to, to, to realizethat. Disability and, and
disability pride, you know,comes from different angles. And
(06:05):
I mentioned that now because,you know, once I got to UT, I
started understanding more ofthe physical barriers I faced, I
started understanding the stateI mean not state, the
stereotypes of disabled people.
And then after leaving UT, it'swhen another wave of realization
came to move that, you know,this world is, it's not the best
(06:27):
for disabled people. And notbecause, you know, there's no
room to grow, or there's no roomto, you know, make society
better. It's just the fact thatunderlying all these
foundational systems and ableismand, and, you know, combining
those different parts of mylife, you know, Azle, and then
(06:50):
UT, and then landing at theCapitol, and now with Texas
Democratic Party, it has allmolded me into seeing the world
differently. And, and beingunapologetically disabled.
Caitlin Smith (07:07):
That is really interesting. And I wanted to ask
you a stupid question. And I'mgoing to because you gave me
entryway, I think you're talkingabout a systemic bias towards
you, you called it ableism. Andso you in your bio, I think it
says physical disability whenwhen I read off, you know, first
(07:28):
student body with a physicaldisability, and you describe it
in a different a coupledifferent ways. I think Henry
introduced us and said, use theterm differently abled. So can
you can you kind of walk methrough that or say, if you have
a preference on disableddifferently abled? How we, I
(07:51):
don't want to even say how weshould refer to that, because I
probably, you know, it'sprobably each person's personal
preference. Right?
Alejandrina Guzman (07:57):
Right. So, um, this is such. Wow, I'm
really glad you asked that,because I kind of mentioned in
my previous answer that acombination of all, you know, my
life experiences has led me tothe point where I am today. And
what I mean by that is in Azle,the idea was a person with a
(08:22):
disability, right? The term Imean, I get to college, and I
learned about different labels,the term different labels. And I
was like, Wow, that soundsempowering. I'm going to use
that. Because, again, the way Igrew up, right, is this mindset
of like, you can overcomeanything, you know, positive
(08:45):
attitude and mind over matter.
And that is toxic. And, and, andit's toxic. Because it gives
this idea that if someone who isdisabled, has a bad attitude,
it's because, you know, they'renot grateful. And so for me,
again, growing up in this, thisenvironment of just appreciating
(09:09):
everything I have, and, youknow, always making sure to have
a positive attitude. And, youknow, what, if it doesn't work
out the first time, that's okay,pick yourself back up and keep
moving forward. That isn't thebest thing, right? Because, um,
you know, let's say somethingdoesn't work out. Yeah, yes. Oh,
(09:31):
it's your fault. And it's like,No, no, no, no. Let's pause.
Let's look at these systemic andinstitutional barriers that
have, you know, pause or or orcreated barriers for me, right.
And, um, after I left college iswhen I started learning about
(09:52):
disability and and learningabout being disabled. And
honestly, I, I mean, as part ofthis, this whole journey of,
undoing ableism. Because ableismis so prevalent in our society,
even for disabled people, youknow, there's there's pieces of
(10:19):
survival, there's pieces ofthriving, there's pieces of, you
know, just making it creatingyour own space. And sometimes,
you know, you run into all theseproblems. And at least for me, I
didn't realize that it was allrooted in ableism and
differently abled. Now, I do notidentify with that, right. And
(10:44):
the bottom line is, again,everyone has their own
preference, right? There may bepeople in the disability
community that do identify asdifferently, like I used to, and
there are people in thedisability community who prefer
people first language, so personwith disability. And it's just
(11:07):
respecting everybody, but moreso really analyzing that, we
have to come to terms that, youknow, people don't see us as
people. And that's problematicin itself.
Caitlin Smith (11:24):
Do you want to talk about the specific work you
do now, or it's probably changedrecently, or the way you do it,
and some of the things you'repushing for might have changed
with the pandemic and othercurrent events. So I don't know,
where you want to start.
Alejandrina Guzman (11:42):
During UT, my second year, there, my first
intense, you know, outwardexperience with ableism was when
I had tried joining a sororityon campus, Latina sorority, and
(12:05):
I, you know, went through thewhole process, did the
application and got to theinterview. And then when I found
out that I was not accepted, andI kept thinking to myself, but
why, why, why, like, I, youknow, I feel like I did well, on
my interview, I think, you know,I'm cut out to be a part of this
(12:27):
organization. And later, throughother friends, I learned that I
was not accepted because of mywheelchair, and I use my
wheelchair have an electricwheelchair. And, to me, like, I
was just like, what the heck,right? Like, I, that was just,
(12:53):
it was like, my first justintense encounter with like,
realizing that no matter howhard I try, no matter how hard I
try to, you know, quote,unquote, you know, be the best I
can be, you know, get all theseaccolades, or, you know, etc,
(13:16):
whatever that may be. At the endof the day, I'm someone in a
wheelchair, and that's areality, right? Like, I'm not
pitying myself. And even if Idid, that's fine, too. But the
thing is, after that, I waslike, Oh, my gosh, no, I, I
don't want anyone else to feelthis way. And that, that that
(13:39):
experience was just kind oflike, happened, it's over, you
know, and kept on going. Right.
Fast forward to Oh, and alsoduring, during my second and
third or third year at UT, iswhen I started getting involved
in student activism, and onracial justice, and navigating,
you know, what does studentadvocacy mean? And how can I
(14:04):
navigate the spaces I'm in? Andby that I mean, the different
organizations I was a part of,how can I navigate that to
empower other students andempower these different
communities on campus, andultimately, it led to student
government, in terms ofexecutive position, and at the
(14:26):
time, I saw that, as you know,this is some bureaucracy stuff,
right. And, and I understandthat by having this title by
having this position, I can beat the table and saying, x, y, z
demands from student leaders andfrom student activists. And, you
(14:50):
know, we did the campaign, wehad platform points, I mean, but
imagine local campaign, right.
And we had a team, we, we didthis whole thing, it was months
(15:11):
of work and then down to, to acouple of weeks of like,
official campaigning andofficial voting and all that
stuff. I get in to my position.
And it was just, it was wild.
And and I say that because like,it made me realize that there is
(15:36):
so much of the barriers thatlike, like, where these issues
come from, are strategic, andare purposeful, by
administrators. And again, as astudent, I was like, What the
heck is going on? Like, youknow, now I'm seeing that part
of the system. Because I'mworking in the system, who
(16:00):
typically occupies the spacesthat someone like me, not
someone who's a Latina, or awoman, or disabled, or, you
know, or at least physicallydisabled, right? And buy at
least is because you can visiblysee that, right? I'm not someone
like me. And the fact that whenI got elected, I was the 10th.
(16:23):
Woman, and the whole history ofSG to be elected. Like, what
does that say? Right? And soit's, again, after I left is
when I was like, oh, mygoodness, like, there's this, I
mean, I made mistakes. And bythat, too, is like, I sometimes
(16:44):
felt like, you know, how do Isee? I made mistakes, by not
utilizing the full capacity ofthe privilege I had. So for
example, now, you know, now mywork with the Texas Democratic
Party. I like that, like I hadthis experience, because now
(17:09):
I'm, again, functioning in aninstitutional organization,
right? They have, they haveconnections, for example, they
have all XYZ, XYZ things, right?
And I'm like, Okay, now I'm inthis, how can I provide support
and advocacy to people outside?
(17:30):
You know, what can I provide?
That is different from someoneelse. And that that was all
because of us. Because I learnedthat I learned that, you know,
by having my title as President,I could send it to whoever admin
I want. I want a meeting to talkabout x. And that's what we
(17:50):
started doing. We our tactic wasfirst, and by that is like, you
know, I'm not just gonna bethere in that room with the
provost, for example, and say,Hey, this didn't work. This
didn't work. No, I'm aninitiating No. And then I'm
(18:10):
going to bring four to fiveother students, right? And not
tell the admin. And when I getto the meeting, and the students
are with me, I'm not the onetalking is that because at the
end of the day, I had thatprivilege, that access, and I
(18:30):
have to, it took a while but tolearn quickly, you know, okay,
what can I do? What can I do?
I'm not going to speak for otherpeople, because there's other
people's fights. And that's thething is learning. What is your
fight? And what is not? When isyour position to speak and
(18:51):
advocate and when is it not? Andwhen is it not privilege to pass
that mic to other people? Andwhen it's not? Which the answer
to that one is always.
(19:33):
So fast forward to organizingwork, it's just that it's like
okay, I have, I have some moneyfor my programs that I'm working
on. I can partner with differentpeople on the grounds of
different community members andprovide them money to, you know,
(19:54):
provide captioning and I candive into that maybe later.
During this interview, butbefore and answer is, although
student government wasabsolutely ridiculous, and
intense, and just wild allaround, I am still lucky and
(20:20):
privileged and thankful that Ihad that opportunity. Because
now as I'm out in the quoteunquote, real world, I'm seeing,
you know, these examples ofinstitutional bias or, you know,
systemic oppression, or, youknow, strategic ways of, of how
(20:43):
higher up people can stop you inprojects or can stop you, and
they don't, you know, it's notovert. Right? It can be like,
pushing back and meeting back instudent government days, and
then your terms up and nothingever happened. So just learning
a lot about what bureaucracy is,and also working within a
(21:07):
system. What does that meanabout it just, there's so much
just layers and layers andlayers of things that, Oh, my
gosh, it takes time to realizethis. Sometimes it hits you in
the face super quickly. Andsometimes it's like, oh, that's
(21:28):
what it was. Right? Well, whatare you working on right now?
Right now. As an organizer, I'mworking to build grassroots
relationships with disabledcommunity members, activists and
leaders across Texas. And myposition specifically, has never
(21:51):
existed in any democratic partybefore. And so it's pretty
intense, because I'm flying theplane while I'm building. Oh, my
God, because there's noblueprint to how, you know, at
(22:12):
least in in, in this specificenvironment of a Democratic
Party organizing position.
There's never been a blueprint,right? Yeah.
Caitlin Smith (22:23):
And that's what I was, I was gonna ask that. So
I'm glad you you said you werethe first one because I was
going to ask if this wassomething you sort of created,
or if you you're following insomebody's footsteps, for lack
of a better word.
Alejandrina Guzman (22:42):
No, it's all new. It's all new. And at the
same time, I have to rememberthat a lot of people in the
disability community have donethis for years and years, right
on the ground in a certainposition or whatever, right?
It's just, it's just fightingfor justice. And so I'm lucky
(23:03):
enough to have made thoserelationships and, and connected
with, with people I call friendsand mentors now, because I, I
called them up all the time. AndI'm like, look, I'm having a
problem with this. What do youthink are like, this is one
thing, but doesn't sound thebest? What should I do? What do
(23:26):
you suggest? So I'm, I'm luckythat I have my own community to
go to while I navigate thisposition.
Caitlin Smith (23:39):
I think that's valuable for anybody, though. I
mean, that's something I do dayto day is call people to ask
what they would do in myposition, or what they have
done. So. So you found whatyou're doing now, through your
background in your passions, andI know you wanted to speak about
sort of calls to action, and Idon't know exactly what you mean
(24:02):
by that. But I think you youfeel or felt, felt and continue
to feel called to action,because of your circumstances
and wanting to representdisabilities, Disability
Justice. So I'm wondering ifthere's a way we can sort of
translate that to to otherpeople with other causes sort of
(24:24):
that call to action feeling?
Alejandrina Guzman (24:26):
Honestly, I didn't even know like, if you
had asked me, like, three yearsago, oh, you're gonna or told me
three years ago. You're gonnawork in disability advocacy? I
would have been like, Oh, okay.
All right. Like, yeah, I neverimagined this. And I say that
because again, it took me Oh,man, it took me a long time to
(24:50):
understand my own identity ofbeing disabled. And you know
what, what means for differentpeople in the disability
community. And I'macknowledging, again that
everyone's journey is differentfrom there. And I am, I was just
so focused on like, you know,Latina, Nikes, Latinos, Latinas,
(25:17):
Latinas. advocacy and people whoare undocumented people who are
DACA recipients. And I alsoacknowledge I have privileged in
that way, because I amdocumented. So I ultimately
(25:40):
cannot speak for that. But I wasjust so passionate about like,
just making sure that there isequity in everything. And then
fast forward to when I got onthe campaign with with Henry and
my role was PR.
Caitlin Smith (26:04):
Was that Justin Nelson's campaign?
Alejandrina Guzman (26:06):
Yes, the campaign for Justin Nelson for
Texas Attorney General. And whenI first got on and learning
that, you know, there is a tonof work to be done for Spanish
speaking communities. I waslike, I let like, let me let me
(26:27):
do this, you know, and thatbecame my role was just PR for
Spanish speaking community. Andthen I get to the Capitol, and
I'm doing tons of awesome policywork, which also I didn't
realize was my passion. And Iwas like, wow, I love this. I
(26:47):
love reading these laws andlegislations and bills, and
like, you know, figuring outwhat they really say, figuring
out, like, who are people beingleft out of. And that kind of
opened the door to disabilityadvocacy, because one of the
(27:08):
bills I was in charge of was forunderutilized businesses. And
that includes the disabilitycommunity. And I was like, Whoa,
like, yes. Like, I'm disabled,like, this is like, let's do
this. And I started learningmore and more, and then session
ends. And I'm like, Whoa, Idon't know what I'm gonna do.
(27:32):
Yeah, because I was on a on afellowship program. And
Caitlin Smith (27:38):
Let's talk about that really quick. Yes, we do
kind of focused on women at thecapital. So can you explain how
you got into the capital workand the session?
Alejandrina Guzman (27:48):
Typically, in campaign world, when you get
on a campaign, the job cycle isalways. So you go from one thing
to the next thing to the nextthing to the next thing. And I
think the campaign was about toend. And I'll say, I'm about to
not have a job again. Like, Idon't know what I'm gonna do.
(28:11):
And one of my, one of my friendssent me the application to the
fellowship is called MexicanAmerican Caucus. Oh, my
goodness, no, Mexican AmericanLegislative Caucus. And it was a
fellowship under them. Iapplied. And to me, it was like,
(28:33):
oh, wow, like I get to be at theCapitol, which is where I was,
again, I didn't realize that'swhat I wanted to talk during.
And I think, for me, symbolismwas a big piece because I took
public transportation. And whenI would get to work for Justin's
campaign, I would always pass bythe Capitol Building, you know,
(28:54):
my way there on the bus, and I'dalways look out in the eye, and
like, someday, someday I'll bethere. Because I've never had an
internship there anything likethat? Oh, because, you know,
when I'm on campus, and someonewho uses public transportation
is disabled and has awheelchair, like that just added
layers of navigating having aninterface. I never really had
(29:17):
off campus things. Right. Yeah.
Caitlin Smith (29:21):
So do you think the Capitol was sort of symbol
of when we were talking aboutstudent body president, we were
talking about sort of being apart of the system. So is the
capital sort of another symbolof being part of a system? Is
that what the draw was?
Alejandrina Guzman (29:39):
Um, I think my draw was, I knew from SG
experience, that a lot of the alot of these like, quote
unquote, issues and things thatstudents fight for, right?
(30:00):
admin, administrators wouldalways say what the policy says,
doesn't have it up, and you'd beblocked. Right? You'd be like,
Well, how do we change the law?
Yeah. And to me, it was like,Oh, wow. Like, I never realized
how much policy comes into playfor so many things. And when
(30:21):
campaign started, I just, youknow, learning about Justin's
positions on what he was runningfor, and everything, you know,
again, it ties back to post. Andthen I see the capitol I'm be
like well, I, you know, I alwayswanted to be there. But I don't
know what that means. And whatthat looks like, I have no idea
(30:41):
if I'll even be there in thenext year, but someday, and then
my friend sends me anapplication. Okay, I'm doing it.
Like, let me do this. Somehow,I'm so lucky. It worked out
right.
Caitlin Smith (30:57):
That's great.
Alejandrina Guzman (30:58):
The policy issue right now. But, yeah, so
So a lot of my work there andpolicy and legislative issues.
And knowing my my goal for me,was, hopefully at the end of
(31:18):
session was learning how to, towork with the other aisle.
Right. And I and I am using airquotations, because I'm
acknowledging, I don't like it.
But I'm acknowledging that a lotof policy work ends up being
(31:38):
bipartisan work. Yes. In thesystem, in an ideal world, for
me, because of justice, the ideais just you do what you got to
do and fight for what you haveto fight, and you make that
statement. In a policy world,it's very much Okay. Here's my
(32:03):
idea. Here is what I hope to do.
How can I make this post? Whereit benefits everyone? And I yes.
And I struggle internally stillwith that, because it still
works in this in this this kindof world? Yeah. But I did, I am
(32:34):
glad I learned that during mytime there. And now I'm like,
wow, I understand how like thiswhole process of finding the
bill and, and fighting for thatbill, and then getting it to the
governor's desk. And then ifeven the governor ends up
signing, right, like, that's awhole nother thing. And it's
just, gosh, there's so so muchfrom where, like, issues stem
(33:04):
from, like, for example,fighting for Accessible rise for
private companies, how to setrideshare private companies like
Uber or Lyft. Right? I learnedthat capital and what that
means, you know, like, differentthings like that. But yeah, I'm
really glad I had thatopportunity. Because it's given
(33:28):
me an additional lens of how tolook at the world. So to say.
Caitlin Smith (33:35):
That's really interesting. And I think you hit
on what I part of my question,because I work in energy policy.
And so if I'm working with asubject matter expert, a lot of
times the answer is what youencountered when you were
student body president. And soyou can't do that because of the
regulation or the law. Butthere's very few of those
(33:56):
developers, you know, they'llaccept that answer. But there's
very few of them. say, Well, I'dlike to work in policy, so I can
change that. So I thought thatwas interesting that you wanted
to do that. But then I think asyou discovered, the reason why
there's very few people who wantto do that is because they would
become very frustrated with withthe compromise and having to
(34:19):
work with other people, which Ienjoy. But I think, you know,
that does stuff, a lot of peoplefrom saying, Well, I'm going to
be the one to to change thepolicies and change that.
Alejandrina Guzman (34:30):
Yeah.
Caitlin Smith (34:30):
Do you think you'd continue to work in
policy.
Alejandrina Guzman (34:35):
Right now my answer is yes.
Caitlin Smith (34:40):
So it's worth it?
Alejandrina Guzman (34:47):
Yes. Answer so hesitantly because again,
like I've just with the work I'mdoing now. Like, not because of
my work, but just because of thegenuine and authentic
relationships I've been buildingwith disabled community members
(35:11):
of Texas and even across thenation. It's like, damn, we are
so behind on so many issues forthe disability community. And it
sucks that I have to, quoteunquote, conform, and work in
(35:32):
this bubble of policy, because Isee a piece of value and doing
and a piece of that entirepicture is policy. And, and
super quickly, I want to mentionthat when I think piece is
disability activists, disabledactivists, justice, disabled,
(35:58):
and I'm trying to word itcoherent Disability Justice
activists on the ground, andframing for everyone, whoever
right. The work they do is tiedin direct action. So that's not
(36:24):
really you know, let me go tothe Capitol and make some laws,
or let me go tell people to govote, or, you know, everybody
focus on elections, just kind ofalong the same lines, right? It
is that it is not everything,right. And Disability Justice.
(36:45):
And, and, and, and direct actionmeans confronting these issues,
whether that is, for example, inthe political world, a senator
who doesn't want to meet withyou directly, protesting in
their office, which I've done,it could look like, you know,
(37:12):
someone in, in an institution,sorry, someone in a, an entity,
a systemic entity, that does notlisten to disabled people. For
example, a hospital, is callingthem out by social media, we
have done it can look like, youknow, telling people, and, and,
(37:39):
and helping people understand,even if they don't accept it,
but helping people understandthat electoral politics doesn't
cut it doesn't go all the way towhat we fight for. Because at
(38:00):
the end of the day, although,for me, personally, I am
Democrat, yes, I'm in TexasDemocratic Party. Yes, I am
going to work on democratic,issues, I also acknowledge that
even when Democratic leaders,not everything is done, to what
(38:26):
we demand. And that's somethingthat's like a hard truth for
some people, right? It's like,Oh, yes. Okay, but like, go
vote. Okay. Yes. I'm not sayingdon't vote, right. I'm just
saying, we have to acknowledgethat there is a lane for
everybody's participation. Ifthat means policy, go do it. If
(38:49):
that means electoral work, go doit. If that means, on the
ground, direct action, activism,go do it. Right. And all of
these pieces working together tocontinue fighting for, you know,
the oppressed.
Caitlin Smith (39:07):
I think that makes sense. And I think I agree
with that. You know, tying itback to the policy work I do,
because I hear a lot of the samepeople I referenced who would
never want to work in policy.
You know, they'll they'll acceptthe answer. You know, you can't
do this because whateverregulation but they usually will
complain about it. And becauseof the work I do and and my
(39:30):
mindset, I think well, Iwouldn't even waste time
complaining about it. I would,you know, use my skills and try
to go to the avenue to make thechange. So I think it's what
you're saying though, it's ifyou disagree with the electoral
system, or if you disagree withthis, just go do it.
Alejandrina Guzman (39:53):
Right.
Because it really does takeeveryone to do this work. And
also reminding people that like,Oh, well, you know, this person
that's complaining all the time,and they're angry all the time,
like, what are they even doing?
No, no, no. Like, like, to me,like, just thinking of myself
(40:16):
back in high school back in,even before High School, like
trying to present myself aslike, positive and palatable and
like, all these things, right?
And I'm like, freaking angry allthe time. Right? And like, it's
acknowledging that like, Okay,I'm gonna push fighting for,
(40:36):
yeah, unapologetic way. And thatis the thing that I think a lot
of people forget that, like,they think that that like, you
know, being seen as as positiveword or being seen as like, you
(40:57):
know, a team player, right? Orinviting player like, Oh, well,
this activist is like banging onthe door all the time. I can't
they just, you know, talk to me.
And it's like, we have beencalling you out they've been
(41:22):
demanding. Before my, you know,me personally my lifetime,
right? And it's just, you know,I just, that's what I am, and
who I am now dislike, angry. Andalso like, acknowledging that
there are just so many thingsthat can be done, and at least
for me, is navigating, beingintense. And, and knowing that,
(41:51):
like, if it's not me, then who,if it's not now then when, and
who do fight for their ownrespective communities,
especially oppressedcommunities, is knowing that
like, you know, you gotta be outthere, if you're able to, you
got to be out there, whetherthat's social media work,
(42:13):
whether that's going to theCapitol and working alongside
legislators, whether it's, youknow, writing emails to
senators, whether it's makingsome blog, or video content, or
podcast, even, like, or writinga book, whatever medium you
choose, and whatever way you'reable to, and are comfortable to,
(42:38):
like, just go do it. Because weknow, the system is working
perfectly, it is not broken, itwas designed in a certain way to
leave out certain people. Andbecause of that, right, when it
is not challenged, what'shappening? Nothing. Right. And
(43:01):
even when a lot of times,nothing changes, either. Because
these same ideas of upholdingthe idea that oh, well, you
know, reform or Oh, well,working within, that's not
always gonna work. So again,it's just being comfortable with
(43:25):
it once. And I think that's thebiggest thing I will say now
that I've learned.
Caitlin Smith (43:32):
What's so what is the most rewarding part of your
job? I think we've been talkingabout some of the difficult
things that you have toovercome. But but obviously, you
find the difficulties withsystems and with policy worth
it. So what is that sort of mostrewarding piece to you?
Alejandrina Guzman (43:52):
The most rewarding piece is working
alongside disabled communitymembers, activists and leaders
and creating space for disabledpeople. And making sure that and
whatever it is, I do, I'm alwaysfocusing on on on them.
Caitlin Smith (44:18):
Cool. And then you mentioned that you didn't
think three years ago you wouldbe doing this. So what what
would you be doing if you didn'thave this job? And maybe this is
two separate questions. What didyou think you were going to do
when you grew up? Because I knowyou talked a little bit about
not thinking you'd go to UT or Iguess the better version would
(44:38):
be what did you want to be whenyou grew up?
Alejandrina Guzman (44:43):
I always wanted to be a teacher. And in
college. I used to be a radiotelevision film major. And if I
could be anything now it wouldeither be a teacher or like,
talk show host.
Caitlin Smith (45:07):
I would love to be a talk show host. You know, I
was thinking that I don't havechildren. But I know that right
now a lot of people are havingto sort of homeschool their
kids. And I'm glad I don't haveto do that, because I'm not a
teacher. And there's a reasonI'm not a teacher. So that's
very commendable that you alwayswanted to do that. Yeah, I do
(45:30):
not have the patience for that.
So that would not be great forthe students. But, but I think
you would be a great teacher. Soall right, are there any closing
things you want to leave us withor anything else we should add?
Alejandrina Guzman (45:50):
Closing thoughts on Disability Justice,
is that, that is intersectional.
And, and ensuring that, youknow, it's not just, you know,
white disabled people, it's alsodisabled people from different
communities. So that includesblack, indigenous, trans, poor,
unhoused. Undocumented, thoseliving in rural areas, those who
(46:17):
are incarcerated, those indetention centers, and those in
nursing homes. And as people,you know, two men are, or are
involved in any kind of policywork, that any policy is
disability policy. Because if wewere to be universally
(46:39):
inclusive, that's for everybody.
At the same time, is rememberingthat we must always uplift
disabled people, and making surethat disabled people are not
(47:01):
just, you know, brought on whathave the mic and have the
opportunities to do all thiswork. And last thing is that
Disability Justice means BlackLives Matter. Black disabled
(47:25):
lives matter. It also means thatbeing disabled is not
disposable. And DisabilityJustice really means liberation
for everyone. And, you know, forme, I don't want people to focus
(47:46):
on being unkind to me, or beingempathetic to me, it's, I need
people to be angry with me. Andbeing in the mud, to fight for
so many of these demands andjustice that disabled people
have been fighting for, foryears. To continue uplifting di
Caitlin Smith (48:11):
I think that's great. That was all really abled
powerful. And that's, I mean,that's how I learned best is
sort of following the the peoplewho are the most knowledgeable.
And that's how I kind ofapproach learning anything.
Alejandrina Guzman (48:27):
Exactly.
Especially for social media.
Caitlin Smith (48:30):
Yes, yes.
All right. Well, thank you foryour time.
Alejandrina Guzman (48:34):
Yes, thank you. Thank you for having me on
here. And I'm glad. Thank you somuch, Caitlin.
Caitlin Smith (48:41):
Thank you. All right. Well, we will wrap it up
here. And thank you all forjoining us.
Hi, I'm Caitlin Smith, and I am guest hosting
this Pink Granite Podcast. TodayI am here with Alejandrina
Guzman. And we're gonna talkabout your life and your work
and the calls to action andthings that you are passionate
about.
Alejandrina Guzman (00:44):
Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.
Caitlin Smith (00:47):
You were your former UT student body president
and you're the first Latinastudent body president at UT.
And I think the first Big 12student body president with a
physical disability. And youcurrently work for the
Democratic, Texas DemocraticParty as the people with
disabilities constituencyorganizer.
Alejandrina Guzman (01:10):
Yes.
Caitlin Smith (01:11):
And so we met before, when I did a panel for a
conference, and I think we weretalking about being civically
engaged. And we were connectedby my my friend and your friend,
Henry Kellison, who has workedon several campaigns, and I
believe you met him in thatcapacity. But when we spoke
(01:34):
before, you were really talkingabout, kind of how to turn the
passions and the interests ofwomen specifically, but all
people might already have intosort of political activism and
using that as their entryway toget engaged. I think the point
of the discussions we hadbefore, which are still relevant
(01:56):
is sort of breaking down thosebarriers to entry for people to
start getting more politicallyactive or engaged with their
community, because I think a lotof people would like to raise
their voice and raise theirparticipation, but don't know
how to. And then I know, fortoday, you wanted to talk about
sort of calls to action, as wellas Disability Justice. And so I
(02:23):
know a lot of these interviews,we kind of start with, What's
your job? How did you get intothe Capitol and policy? But I
think with you, it might makemore sense to start with your
background? And how you sort ofturn that in to, to what you do
now?
Alejandrina Guzman (02:39):
Yes, thank you so much, first of all, for
giving me an opportunity to behere and tell my my story. For
me, I am from a small town inTexas, called Azle, which is by
Fort Worth. And I growing up, myparents were empowering. They
(03:05):
supported me and I was lucky tohave that. I'm the oldest of
four kids. And I have threeyounger brothers. And so I think
a lot of what I grew up with,and the way, you know, I was
taught how to, to propel myselfforward was because of my
family. And I actually didn'tthink I was going to leave Azle
(03:31):
at all. Just because I have adisability. I'm physically
disabled. And for me, I dependeda lot on my mom. And so when
college came up, I was notreally considering leaving my
hometown. It never really seemedlike an option. Until my senior
(03:54):
year of high school. And we hadat my high school, we had a
college advisor, the first timewe've ever had a person in that
position. And so because of herbecause of her she, man, I
cannot thank her enough becauseshe had asked me at one point
(04:18):
when I actually when I firstmet, where I wanted to go to
college, and I named a fewcolleges around the area. And I
guess she somehow saw myhesitation, asked me again, and
I said, Well, you know, maybe UTAustin but I'm not really sure.
And she said, Okay, we'll makeit happen. And that was like,
(04:39):
you know, the start ofeverything. And to kind of wrap
things in context. I didn'treally understand much of the
political sphere before gettingto Austin I was not as involved
I was not as politically engagedin in any form really, and now,
(05:02):
you know, looking, looking back,and now it's like, wow, I really
focused on, you know, survivingin Azle. And by that, I mean
that a lot of things that iscommon for disabled people
growing up, you know, is thisidea that you have to present
(05:23):
yourself as, like, nice or youhave to present yourself as
palatable to other people. Andthat gives you some room to be
yourself and, and kind of thiswhole idea of like, inspiring
people or motivating. And, and,you know, fast forward to now is
(05:43):
like, Oh my goodness, like thatis not, not okay. And I've
learned a lot to, to, to realizethat. Disability and, and
disability pride, you know,comes from different angles. And
(06:05):
I mentioned that now because,you know, once I got to UT, I
started understanding more ofthe physical barriers I faced, I
started understanding the stateI mean not state, the
stereotypes of disabled people.
And then after leaving UT, it'swhen another wave of realization
came to move that, you know,this world is, it's not the best
(06:27):
for disabled people. And notbecause, you know, there's no
room to grow, or there's no roomto, you know, make society
better. It's just the fact thatunderlying all these
foundational systems and ableismand, and, you know, combining
those different parts of mylife, you know, Azle, and then
(06:50):
UT, and then landing at theCapitol, and now with Texas
Democratic Party, it has allmolded me into seeing the world
differently. And, and beingunapologetically disabled.
Caitlin Smith (07:07):
That is really interesting. And I wanted to ask
you a stupid question. And I'mgoing to because you gave me
entryway, I think you're talkingabout a systemic bias towards
you, you called it ableism. Andso you in your bio, I think it
says physical disability whenwhen I read off, you know, first
(07:28):
student body with a physicaldisability, and you describe it
in a different a coupledifferent ways. I think Henry
introduced us and said, use theterm differently abled. So can
you can you kind of walk methrough that or say, if you have
a preference on disableddifferently abled? How we, I
(07:51):
don't want to even say how weshould refer to that, because I
probably, you know, it'sprobably each person's personal
preference. Right?
Alejandrina Guzman (07:57):
Right. So, um, this is such. Wow, I'm
really glad you asked that,because I kind of mentioned in
my previous answer that acombination of all, you know, my
life experiences has led me tothe point where I am today. And
what I mean by that is in Azle,the idea was a person with a
(08:22):
disability, right? The term Imean, I get to college, and I
learned about different labels,the term different labels. And I
was like, Wow, that soundsempowering. I'm going to use
that. Because, again, the way Igrew up, right, is this mindset
of like, you can overcomeanything, you know, positive
(08:45):
attitude and mind over matter.
And that is toxic. And, and, andit's toxic. Because it gives
this idea that if someone who isdisabled, has a bad attitude,
it's because, you know, they'renot grateful. And so for me,
again, growing up in this, thisenvironment of just appreciating
(09:09):
everything I have, and, youknow, always making sure to have
a positive attitude. And, youknow, what, if it doesn't work
out the first time, that's okay,pick yourself back up and keep
moving forward. That isn't thebest thing, right? Because, um,
you know, let's say somethingdoesn't work out. Yeah, yes. Oh,
(09:31):
it's your fault. And it's like,No, no, no, no. Let's pause.
Let's look at these systemic andinstitutional barriers that
have, you know, pause or or orcreated barriers for me, right.
And, um, after I left college iswhen I started learning about
(09:52):
disability and and learningabout being disabled. And
honestly, I, I mean, as part ofthis, this whole journey of,
undoing ableism. Because ableismis so prevalent in our society,
even for disabled people, youknow, there's there's pieces of
(10:19):
survival, there's pieces ofthriving, there's pieces of, you
know, just making it creatingyour own space. And sometimes,
you know, you run into all theseproblems. And at least for me, I
didn't realize that it was allrooted in ableism and
differently abled. Now, I do notidentify with that, right. And
(10:44):
the bottom line is, again,everyone has their own
preference, right? There may bepeople in the disability
community that do identify asdifferently, like I used to, and
there are people in thedisability community who prefer
people first language, so personwith disability. And it's just
(11:07):
respecting everybody, but moreso really analyzing that, we
have to come to terms that, youknow, people don't see us as
people. And that's problematicin itself.
Caitlin Smith (11:24):
Do you want to talk about the specific work you
do now, or it's probably changedrecently, or the way you do it,
and some of the things you'repushing for might have changed
with the pandemic and othercurrent events. So I don't know,
where you want to start.
Alejandrina Guzman (11:42):
During UT, my second year, there, my first
intense, you know, outwardexperience with ableism was when
I had tried joining a sororityon campus, Latina sorority, and
(12:05):
I, you know, went through thewhole process, did the
application and got to theinterview. And then when I found
out that I was not accepted, andI kept thinking to myself, but
why, why, why, like, I, youknow, I feel like I did well, on
my interview, I think, you know,I'm cut out to be a part of this
(12:27):
organization. And later, throughother friends, I learned that I
was not accepted because of mywheelchair, and I use my
wheelchair have an electricwheelchair. And, to me, like, I
was just like, what the heck,right? Like, I, that was just,
(12:53):
it was like, my first justintense encounter with like,
realizing that no matter howhard I try, no matter how hard I
try to, you know, quote,unquote, you know, be the best I
can be, you know, get all theseaccolades, or, you know, etc,
(13:16):
whatever that may be. At the endof the day, I'm someone in a
wheelchair, and that's areality, right? Like, I'm not
pitying myself. And even if Idid, that's fine, too. But the
thing is, after that, I waslike, Oh, my gosh, no, I, I
don't want anyone else to feelthis way. And that, that that
(13:39):
experience was just kind oflike, happened, it's over, you
know, and kept on going. Right.
Fast forward to Oh, and alsoduring, during my second and
third or third year at UT, iswhen I started getting involved
in student activism, and onracial justice, and navigating,
you know, what does studentadvocacy mean? And how can I
(14:04):
navigate the spaces I'm in? Andby that I mean, the different
organizations I was a part of,how can I navigate that to
empower other students andempower these different
communities on campus, andultimately, it led to student
government, in terms ofexecutive position, and at the
(14:26):
time, I saw that, as you know,this is some bureaucracy stuff,
right. And, and I understandthat by having this title by
having this position, I can beat the table and saying, x, y, z
demands from student leaders andfrom student activists. And, you
(14:50):
know, we did the campaign, wehad platform points, I mean, but
imagine local campaign, right.
And we had a team, we, we didthis whole thing, it was months
(15:11):
of work and then down to, to acouple of weeks of like,
official campaigning andofficial voting and all that
stuff. I get in to my position.
And it was just, it was wild.
And and I say that because like,it made me realize that there is
(15:36):
so much of the barriers thatlike, like, where these issues
come from, are strategic, andare purposeful, by
administrators. And again, as astudent, I was like, What the
heck is going on? Like, youknow, now I'm seeing that part
of the system. Because I'mworking in the system, who
(16:00):
typically occupies the spacesthat someone like me, not
someone who's a Latina, or awoman, or disabled, or, you
know, or at least physicallydisabled, right? And buy at
least is because you can visiblysee that, right? I'm not someone
like me. And the fact that whenI got elected, I was the 10th.
(16:23):
Woman, and the whole history ofSG to be elected. Like, what
does that say? Right? And soit's, again, after I left is
when I was like, oh, mygoodness, like, there's this, I
mean, I made mistakes. And bythat, too, is like, I sometimes
(16:44):
felt like, you know, how do Isee? I made mistakes, by not
utilizing the full capacity ofthe privilege I had. So for
example, now, you know, now mywork with the Texas Democratic
Party. I like that, like I hadthis experience, because now
(17:09):
I'm, again, functioning in aninstitutional organization,
right? They have, they haveconnections, for example, they
have all XYZ, XYZ things, right?
And I'm like, Okay, now I'm inthis, how can I provide support
and advocacy to people outside?
(17:30):
You know, what can I provide?
That is different from someoneelse. And that that was all
because of us. Because I learnedthat I learned that, you know,
by having my title as President,I could send it to whoever admin
I want. I want a meeting to talkabout x. And that's what we
(17:50):
started doing. We our tactic wasfirst, and by that is like, you
know, I'm not just gonna bethere in that room with the
provost, for example, and say,Hey, this didn't work. This
didn't work. No, I'm aninitiating No. And then I'm
(18:10):
going to bring four to fiveother students, right? And not
tell the admin. And when I getto the meeting, and the students
are with me, I'm not the onetalking is that because at the
end of the day, I had thatprivilege, that access, and I
(18:30):
have to, it took a while but tolearn quickly, you know, okay,
what can I do? What can I do?
I'm not going to speak for otherpeople, because there's other
people's fights. And that's thething is learning. What is your
fight? And what is not? When isyour position to speak and
(18:51):
advocate and when is it not? Andwhen is it not privilege to pass
that mic to other people? Andwhen it's not? Which the answer
to that one is always.
(19:33):
So fast forward to organizingwork, it's just that it's like
okay, I have, I have some moneyfor my programs that I'm working
on. I can partner with differentpeople on the grounds of
different community members andprovide them money to, you know,
(19:54):
provide captioning and I candive into that maybe later.
During this interview, butbefore and answer is, although
student government wasabsolutely ridiculous, and
intense, and just wild allaround, I am still lucky and
(20:20):
privileged and thankful that Ihad that opportunity. Because
now as I'm out in the quoteunquote, real world, I'm seeing,
you know, these examples ofinstitutional bias or, you know,
systemic oppression, or, youknow, strategic ways of, of how
(20:43):
higher up people can stop you inprojects or can stop you, and
they don't, you know, it's notovert. Right? It can be like,
pushing back and meeting back instudent government days, and
then your terms up and nothingever happened. So just learning
a lot about what bureaucracy is,and also working within a
(21:07):
system. What does that meanabout it just, there's so much
just layers and layers andlayers of things that, Oh, my
gosh, it takes time to realizethis. Sometimes it hits you in
the face super quickly. Andsometimes it's like, oh, that's
(21:28):
what it was. Right? Well, whatare you working on right now?
Right now. As an organizer, I'mworking to build grassroots
relationships with disabledcommunity members, activists and
leaders across Texas. And myposition specifically, has never
(21:51):
existed in any democratic partybefore. And so it's pretty
intense, because I'm flying theplane while I'm building. Oh, my
God, because there's noblueprint to how, you know, at
(22:12):
least in in, in this specificenvironment of a Democratic
Party organizing position.
There's never been a blueprint,right? Yeah.
Caitlin Smith (22:23):
And that's what I was, I was gonna ask that. So
I'm glad you you said you werethe first one because I was
going to ask if this wassomething you sort of created,
or if you you're following insomebody's footsteps, for lack
of a better word.
Alejandrina Guzman (22:42):
No, it's all new. It's all new. And at the
same time, I have to rememberthat a lot of people in the
disability community have donethis for years and years, right
on the ground in a certainposition or whatever, right?
It's just, it's just fightingfor justice. And so I'm lucky
(23:03):
enough to have made thoserelationships and, and connected
with, with people I call friendsand mentors now, because I, I
called them up all the time. AndI'm like, look, I'm having a
problem with this. What do youthink are like, this is one
thing, but doesn't sound thebest? What should I do? What do
(23:26):
you suggest? So I'm, I'm luckythat I have my own community to
go to while I navigate thisposition.
Caitlin Smith (23:39):
I think that's valuable for anybody, though. I
mean, that's something I do dayto day is call people to ask
what they would do in myposition, or what they have
done. So. So you found whatyou're doing now, through your
background in your passions, andI know you wanted to speak about
sort of calls to action, and Idon't know exactly what you mean
(24:02):
by that. But I think you youfeel or felt, felt and continue
to feel called to action,because of your circumstances
and wanting to representdisabilities, Disability
Justice. So I'm wondering ifthere's a way we can sort of
translate that to to otherpeople with other causes sort of
(24:24):
that call to action feeling?
Alejandrina Guzman (24:26):
Honestly, I didn't even know like, if you
had asked me, like, three yearsago, oh, you're gonna or told me
three years ago. You're gonnawork in disability advocacy? I
would have been like, Oh, okay.
All right. Like, yeah, I neverimagined this. And I say that
because again, it took me Oh,man, it took me a long time to
(24:50):
understand my own identity ofbeing disabled. And you know
what, what means for differentpeople in the disability
community. And I'macknowledging, again that
everyone's journey is differentfrom there. And I am, I was just
so focused on like, you know,Latina, Nikes, Latinos, Latinas,
(25:17):
Latinas. advocacy and people whoare undocumented people who are
DACA recipients. And I alsoacknowledge I have privileged in
that way, because I amdocumented. So I ultimately
(25:40):
cannot speak for that. But I wasjust so passionate about like,
just making sure that there isequity in everything. And then
fast forward to when I got onthe campaign with with Henry and
my role was PR.
Caitlin Smith (26:04):
Was that Justin Nelson's campaign?
Alejandrina Guzman (26:06):
Yes, the campaign for Justin Nelson for
Texas Attorney General. And whenI first got on and learning
that, you know, there is a tonof work to be done for Spanish
speaking communities. I waslike, I let like, let me let me
(26:27):
do this, you know, and thatbecame my role was just PR for
Spanish speaking community. Andthen I get to the Capitol, and
I'm doing tons of awesome policywork, which also I didn't
realize was my passion. And Iwas like, wow, I love this. I
(26:47):
love reading these laws andlegislations and bills, and
like, you know, figuring outwhat they really say, figuring
out, like, who are people beingleft out of. And that kind of
opened the door to disabilityadvocacy, because one of the
(27:08):
bills I was in charge of was forunderutilized businesses. And
that includes the disabilitycommunity. And I was like, Whoa,
like, yes. Like, I'm disabled,like, this is like, let's do
this. And I started learningmore and more, and then session
ends. And I'm like, Whoa, Idon't know what I'm gonna do.
(27:32):
Yeah, because I was on a on afellowship program. And
Caitlin Smith (27:38):
Let's talk about that really quick. Yes, we do
kind of focused on women at thecapital. So can you explain how
you got into the capital workand the session?
Alejandrina Guzman (27:48):
Typically, in campaign world, when you get
on a campaign, the job cycle isalways. So you go from one thing
to the next thing to the nextthing to the next thing. And I
think the campaign was about toend. And I'll say, I'm about to
not have a job again. Like, Idon't know what I'm gonna do.
(28:11):
And one of my, one of my friendssent me the application to the
fellowship is called MexicanAmerican Caucus. Oh, my
goodness, no, Mexican AmericanLegislative Caucus. And it was a
fellowship under them. Iapplied. And to me, it was like,
(28:33):
oh, wow, like I get to be at theCapitol, which is where I was,
again, I didn't realize that'swhat I wanted to talk during.
And I think, for me, symbolismwas a big piece because I took
public transportation. And whenI would get to work for Justin's
campaign, I would always pass bythe Capitol Building, you know,
(28:54):
my way there on the bus, and I'dalways look out in the eye, and
like, someday, someday I'll bethere. Because I've never had an
internship there anything likethat? Oh, because, you know,
when I'm on campus, and someonewho uses public transportation
is disabled and has awheelchair, like that just added
layers of navigating having aninterface. I never really had
(29:17):
off campus things. Right. Yeah.
Caitlin Smith (29:21):
So do you think the Capitol was sort of symbol
of when we were talking aboutstudent body president, we were
talking about sort of being apart of the system. So is the
capital sort of another symbolof being part of a system? Is
that what the draw was?
Alejandrina Guzman (29:39):
Um, I think my draw was, I knew from SG
experience, that a lot of the alot of these like, quote
unquote, issues and things thatstudents fight for, right?
(30:00):
admin, administrators wouldalways say what the policy says,
doesn't have it up, and you'd beblocked. Right? You'd be like,
Well, how do we change the law?
Yeah. And to me, it was like,Oh, wow. Like, I never realized
how much policy comes into playfor so many things. And when
(30:21):
campaign started, I just, youknow, learning about Justin's
positions on what he was runningfor, and everything, you know,
again, it ties back to post. Andthen I see the capitol I'm be
like well, I, you know, I alwayswanted to be there. But I don't
know what that means. And whatthat looks like, I have no idea
(30:41):
if I'll even be there in thenext year, but someday, and then
my friend sends me anapplication. Okay, I'm doing it.
Like, let me do this. Somehow,I'm so lucky. It worked out
right.
Caitlin Smith (30:57):
That's great.
Alejandrina Guzman (30:58):
The policy issue right now. But, yeah, so
So a lot of my work there andpolicy and legislative issues.
And knowing my my goal for me,was, hopefully at the end of
(31:18):
session was learning how to, towork with the other aisle.
Right. And I and I am using airquotations, because I'm
acknowledging, I don't like it.
But I'm acknowledging that a lotof policy work ends up being
(31:38):
bipartisan work. Yes. In thesystem, in an ideal world, for
me, because of justice, the ideais just you do what you got to
do and fight for what you haveto fight, and you make that
statement. In a policy world,it's very much Okay. Here's my
(32:03):
idea. Here is what I hope to do.
How can I make this post? Whereit benefits everyone? And I yes.
And I struggle internally stillwith that, because it still
works in this in this this kindof world? Yeah. But I did, I am
(32:34):
glad I learned that during mytime there. And now I'm like,
wow, I understand how like thiswhole process of finding the
bill and, and fighting for thatbill, and then getting it to the
governor's desk. And then ifeven the governor ends up
signing, right, like, that's awhole nother thing. And it's
just, gosh, there's so so muchfrom where, like, issues stem
(33:04):
from, like, for example,fighting for Accessible rise for
private companies, how to setrideshare private companies like
Uber or Lyft. Right? I learnedthat capital and what that
means, you know, like, differentthings like that. But yeah, I'm
really glad I had thatopportunity. Because it's given
(33:28):
me an additional lens of how tolook at the world. So to say.
Caitlin Smith (33:35):
That's really interesting. And I think you hit
on what I part of my question,because I work in energy policy.
And so if I'm working with asubject matter expert, a lot of
times the answer is what youencountered when you were
student body president. And soyou can't do that because of the
regulation or the law. Butthere's very few of those
(33:56):
developers, you know, they'llaccept that answer. But there's
very few of them. say, Well, I'dlike to work in policy, so I can
change that. So I thought thatwas interesting that you wanted
to do that. But then I think asyou discovered, the reason why
there's very few people who wantto do that is because they would
become very frustrated with withthe compromise and having to
(34:19):
work with other people, which Ienjoy. But I think, you know,
that does stuff, a lot of peoplefrom saying, Well, I'm going to
be the one to to change thepolicies and change that.
Alejandrina Guzman (34:30):
Yeah.
Caitlin Smith (34:30):
Do you think you'd continue to work in
policy.
Alejandrina Guzman (34:35):
Right now my answer is yes.
Caitlin Smith (34:40):
So it's worth it?
Alejandrina Guzman (34:47):
Yes. Answer so hesitantly because again,
like I've just with the work I'mdoing now. Like, not because of
my work, but just because of thegenuine and authentic
relationships I've been buildingwith disabled community members
(35:11):
of Texas and even across thenation. It's like, damn, we are
so behind on so many issues forthe disability community. And it
sucks that I have to, quoteunquote, conform, and work in
(35:32):
this bubble of policy, because Isee a piece of value and doing
and a piece of that entirepicture is policy. And, and
super quickly, I want to mentionthat when I think piece is
disability activists, disabledactivists, justice, disabled,
(35:58):
and I'm trying to word itcoherent Disability Justice
activists on the ground, andframing for everyone, whoever
right. The work they do is tiedin direct action. So that's not
(36:24):
really you know, let me go tothe Capitol and make some laws,
or let me go tell people to govote, or, you know, everybody
focus on elections, just kind ofalong the same lines, right? It
is that it is not everything,right. And Disability Justice.
(36:45):
And, and, and, and direct actionmeans confronting these issues,
whether that is, for example, inthe political world, a senator
who doesn't want to meet withyou directly, protesting in
their office, which I've done,it could look like, you know,
(37:12):
someone in, in an institution,sorry, someone in a, an entity,
a systemic entity, that does notlisten to disabled people. For
example, a hospital, is callingthem out by social media, we
have done it can look like, youknow, telling people, and, and,
(37:39):
and helping people understand,even if they don't accept it,
but helping people understandthat electoral politics doesn't
cut it doesn't go all the way towhat we fight for. Because at
(38:00):
the end of the day, although,for me, personally, I am
Democrat, yes, I'm in TexasDemocratic Party. Yes, I am
going to work on democratic,issues, I also acknowledge that
even when Democratic leaders,not everything is done, to what
(38:26):
we demand. And that's somethingthat's like a hard truth for
some people, right? It's like,Oh, yes. Okay, but like, go
vote. Okay. Yes. I'm not sayingdon't vote, right. I'm just
saying, we have to acknowledgethat there is a lane for
everybody's participation. Ifthat means policy, go do it. If
(38:49):
that means electoral work, go doit. If that means, on the
ground, direct action, activism,go do it. Right. And all of
these pieces working together tocontinue fighting for, you know,
the oppressed.
Caitlin Smith (39:07):
I think that makes sense. And I think I agree
with that. You know, tying itback to the policy work I do,
because I hear a lot of the samepeople I referenced who would
never want to work in policy.
You know, they'll they'll acceptthe answer. You know, you can't
do this because whateverregulation but they usually will
complain about it. And becauseof the work I do and and my
(39:30):
mindset, I think well, Iwouldn't even waste time
complaining about it. I would,you know, use my skills and try
to go to the avenue to make thechange. So I think it's what
you're saying though, it's ifyou disagree with the electoral
system, or if you disagree withthis, just go do it.
Alejandrina Guzman (39:53):
Right.
Because it really does takeeveryone to do this work. And
also reminding people that like,Oh, well, you know, this person
that's complaining all the time,and they're angry all the time,
like, what are they even doing?
No, no, no. Like, like, to me,like, just thinking of myself
(40:16):
back in high school back in,even before High School, like
trying to present myself aslike, positive and palatable and
like, all these things, right?
And I'm like, freaking angry allthe time. Right? And like, it's
acknowledging that like, Okay,I'm gonna push fighting for,
(40:36):
yeah, unapologetic way. And thatis the thing that I think a lot
of people forget that, like,they think that that like, you
know, being seen as as positiveword or being seen as like, you
(40:57):
know, a team player, right? Orinviting player like, Oh, well,
this activist is like banging onthe door all the time. I can't
they just, you know, talk to me.
And it's like, we have beencalling you out they've been
(41:22):
demanding. Before my, you know,me personally my lifetime,
right? And it's just, you know,I just, that's what I am, and
who I am now dislike, angry. Andalso like, acknowledging that
there are just so many thingsthat can be done, and at least
for me, is navigating, beingintense. And, and knowing that,
(41:51):
like, if it's not me, then who,if it's not now then when, and
who do fight for their ownrespective communities,
especially oppressedcommunities, is knowing that
like, you know, you gotta be outthere, if you're able to, you
got to be out there, whetherthat's social media work,
(42:13):
whether that's going to theCapitol and working alongside
legislators, whether it's, youknow, writing emails to
senators, whether it's makingsome blog, or video content, or
podcast, even, like, or writinga book, whatever medium you
choose, and whatever way you'reable to, and are comfortable to,
(42:38):
like, just go do it. Because weknow, the system is working
perfectly, it is not broken, itwas designed in a certain way to
leave out certain people. Andbecause of that, right, when it
is not challenged, what'shappening? Nothing. Right. And
(43:01):
even when a lot of times,nothing changes, either. Because
these same ideas of upholdingthe idea that oh, well, you
know, reform or Oh, well,working within, that's not
always gonna work. So again,it's just being comfortable with
(43:25):
it once. And I think that's thebiggest thing I will say now
that I've learned.
Caitlin Smith (43:32):
What's so what is the most rewarding part of your
job? I think we've been talkingabout some of the difficult
things that you have toovercome. But but obviously, you
find the difficulties withsystems and with policy worth
it. So what is that sort of mostrewarding piece to you?
Alejandrina Guzman (43:52):
The most rewarding piece is working
alongside disabled communitymembers, activists and leaders
and creating space for disabledpeople. And making sure that and
whatever it is, I do, I'm alwaysfocusing on on on them.
Caitlin Smith (44:18):
Cool. And then you mentioned that you didn't
think three years ago you wouldbe doing this. So what what
would you be doing if you didn'thave this job? And maybe this is
two separate questions. What didyou think you were going to do
when you grew up? Because I knowyou talked a little bit about
not thinking you'd go to UT or Iguess the better version would
(44:38):
be what did you want to be whenyou grew up?
Alejandrina Guzman (44:43):
I always wanted to be a teacher. And in
college. I used to be a radiotelevision film major. And if I
could be anything now it wouldeither be a teacher or like,
talk show host.
Caitlin Smith (45:07):
I would love to be a talk show host. You know, I
was thinking that I don't havechildren. But I know that right
now a lot of people are havingto sort of homeschool their
kids. And I'm glad I don't haveto do that, because I'm not a
teacher. And there's a reasonI'm not a teacher. So that's
very commendable that you alwayswanted to do that. Yeah, I do
(45:30):
not have the patience for that.
So that would not be great forthe students. But, but I think
you would be a great teacher. Soall right, are there any closing
things you want to leave us withor anything else we should add?
Alejandrina Guzman (45:50):
Closing thoughts on Disability Justice,
is that, that is intersectional.
And, and ensuring that, youknow, it's not just, you know,
white disabled people, it's alsodisabled people from different
communities. So that includesblack, indigenous, trans, poor,
unhoused. Undocumented, thoseliving in rural areas, those who
(46:17):
are incarcerated, those indetention centers, and those in
nursing homes. And as people,you know, two men are, or are
involved in any kind of policywork, that any policy is
disability policy. Because if wewere to be universally
(46:39):
inclusive, that's for everybody.
At the same time, is rememberingthat we must always uplift
disabled people, and making surethat disabled people are not
(47:01):
just, you know, brought on whathave the mic and have the
opportunities to do all thiswork. And last thing is that
Disability Justice means BlackLives Matter. Black disabled
(47:25):
lives matter. It also means thatbeing disabled is not
disposable. And DisabilityJustice really means liberation
for everyone. And, you know, forme, I don't want people to focus
(47:46):
on being unkind to me, or beingempathetic to me, it's, I need
people to be angry with me. Andbeing in the mud, to fight for
so many of these demands andjustice that disabled people
have been fighting for, foryears. To continue uplifting di
Caitlin Smith (48:11):
I think that's great. That was all really abled
powerful. And that's, I mean,that's how I learned best is
sort of following the the peoplewho are the most knowledgeable.
And that's how I kind ofapproach learning anything.
Alejandrina Guzman (48:27):
Exactly.
Especially for social media.
Caitlin Smith (48:30):
Yes, yes.
All right. Well, thank you foryour time.
Alejandrina Guzman (48:34):
Yes, thank you. Thank you for having me on
here. And I'm glad. Thank you somuch, Caitlin.
Caitlin Smith (48:41):
Thank you. All right. Well, we will wrap it up
here. And thank you all forjoining us.
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