February 13, 2025 • 28 mins
Join us for a captivating conversation with US soccer legend John Harkes as we explore his incredible journey from the playgrounds of Kearny, New Jersey—affectionately known as "Soccer Town, USA"—to the world stage. Discover how the tight-knit community of Kearney, fueled by immigrant passion, played a pivotal role in shaping his career and the broader landscape of American soccer. From childhood games under the watchful eye of his father to the pressures and triumphs on the international field, John's story is one of dedication, community, and the power of a shared dream.
In an inspiring narrative, we also reflect on a pivotal lesson learned from the legendary coach Manny Schellscheidt, which reshaped our understanding of the game beyond mere scoring. This episode offers rich insights into the pathways from youth soccer to pro levels, illustrating the distinctions between collegiate success and international achievements. As we highlight career milestones, we emphasize the importance of community engagement and the cultural foundation within teams. Tune in to understand how balancing on-field success with meaningful off-field contributions can create a lasting legacy in the soccer world.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:05):
Pitch to Pro is the official podcast of Ozark United
FC.
This will be our platform totell our story about the club
and the special place that wecall home, northwest Arkansas.
This is a journey we want tobring you along for the ride.
We'll share what's going onbehind the curtain, help educate
the community at large aboutsoccer, our league, and give
(00:25):
updates on the progress of theclub along the way.
Together, we'll explore andunpack our journey to
professional soccer, the magicthat is NWA, our community, and
talk all things soccer from onthe pitch to behind the scenes,
telling the story of our club.
Pitch to Pro Podcast is proudlysponsored by PodcastVideoscom.
(00:46):
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(01:07):
Hello everybody and welcomeback to the Pitch to Pro podcast
.
I'm your host, wes Harris,managing Director for Ozark
United FC, northwest Arkansas'professional soccer club,
playing in the United SoccerLeague.
Today I am super stoked aboutmy guest, a US soccer legend,
playing all over the world inall kinds of different
competitions, leagues, teamsthat you guys know.
(01:29):
Mr John Harkes, now technicaldirector for the McLean Youth
Soccer in Virginia.
John, thank you so much, man,for joining me today.
I can't wait to dive in.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
No, my pleasure.
Wes Great to be on with you,Looking forward to our
discussion on many, many, manyplatforms and then making sure
that we get this wrapped up intime for us to watch the
Liverpool top of the match.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I know that's probably the most.
I did wear the DC United jerseyfor you today.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I love it that is my uniform.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Every podcast episode is to wear a jersey.
So I made sure to bring thatone.
I love yours even more.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
McAllister on the back.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
He's doing such an awesome job.
He's one of my favorites, sohow are?
you.
I'm great man, we're doing allkinds of great things, uh, but
you know, one of these, one ofthe things that we do is this
podcast to kind of educatepeople on what we're doing, get
people more excited about thegame and you know soccer 101,
(02:39):
but also talking to people thathave been there, done that in
other markets kind of likeyourself within our league, but
also as a player, and experiencethat growth within the sport,
um, over the last, you know, 40years or so, so, uh, first,
let's let's just like start fromthe beginning.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Give people a little bit about you, your background,
um, and how you kind of foundthe game yeah, um, so grew up in
kearney, new jersey, uh,k-e-a-r-n-y big, big, massive
history uh of soccer in thattown uh soccer town, usa man
(03:14):
yeah, I mean that you know tommccabe, friend of ours,
historian in the game, did agreat job putting that together,
uh, with and Tony and I, andhaving three players play on the
same World Cup team, two WorldCups.
It was crazy From such a small,maybe 40,000 population at the
(03:38):
time in that town 36,000 maybe,and it just a lot of people.
What they don't know about this36,000 maybe and it just, you
know, a lot of people what theydon't know about this, wes is
that the game goes back inKearney, way before us in our
generation.
There are so many.
There were other players thatplayed, you know, on the World
Cup teams for Kearney and not alot of people know that and
(03:59):
people don't really talk aboutthat much.
So, from my perspective, I lovethe history of the game.
I am very respectful of thepeople that have, you know,
worked really hard andtirelessly to build the game in
our country.
I always have time for peoplelike that.
It's a big respect for me fordifferent coaches, players that
(04:22):
have had their own journeys, youknow, and had given us
opportunities to step in and,like you said, build things.
And you know I love, you know,the fact that I was able to, at
four years old, start playingwith a recreation team you know
the U7s and with my brother'steam that my dad let me play,
(04:44):
probably legally.
My dad coached me all my youthcareer up until I went to UVX.
He didn't touch us when we wereat Kearney High School because
at those days, back in the day,kearney High School and the high
school game was that's whereyou got recruited to go to
college, whereas now theplatform's changed.
(05:05):
In some states it's it's cluband in some states it's still.
The high school programs arereally strong, it's based on
what you have, uh, but my dadraised my brother and I and my
sister debbie.
Uh, my mom was always supportiveand really incarnate.
It was a very unique kind ofsituation where you know you've
(05:29):
heard this saying it takes avillage.
You know well, we had thevillage we had, if it wasn't my
parents taking me to a game, orit was somebody else's parents,
or we were jumping in this vanor we were hitchhiking down to
New Jersey State tryouts.
It was crazy.
We just did everything we couldand there wasn't a lot of
(05:50):
outdoor kind of structure, itwas just more or less find
yourself and survive in the game.
And, you know, one of thebiggest things that I remember
from my youth days was that mydad had had so much passion
coming from scotland and heplayed himself.
My mom both you know came fromscotland as well.
Um, in the town of carney itwas a lot of scottish, english
(06:14):
and irish immigrants at thattime that had come over for work
.
Um, there's a couple ofindustrial textile companies
called the clark thread companyand they started some of the uh
really semi-pro teams back inthe day and even competed in the
open cup.
Um, it goes back as far as the1800s in carney.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Wow, uh which is crazy and uh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
So for me it was like here we are, we're on this
journey and, um, it was done,you know, way before us.
So you have to have thatunderstanding.
And, um, my, my parents werevery supportive, loving, you
know, didn't have a lot, it wasa very blue-collar town,
hard-working town, um, but I didgrow up with a very optimistic
(07:00):
approach and enthusiasticapproach to the game and to
people.
I love collaborating andsharing ideas and meeting people
and understanding what theirbackground is and where they
came from and what makes themtick, you know.
So soccer connects you in allways and I was very fortunate to
grow up in the game and havethat success.
(07:21):
And, you know, have thoseopportunities because, you know,
soccer just really gave me achance to go to UVA and have
that success.
And, you know, have thoseopportunities because, um, you
know it, soccer just really gaveme a chance to go to UVA, uh,
university of Virginia, one ofthe top schools in the country,
uh, to get an education but alsoto play and compete for Bruce
arena and Dave Sarakin and growup and mature and, uh, and then
(07:42):
have an opportunity to play inthe Olympics in 88.
And then, you know, 90, 94,world Cup.
So, yeah, it's a long journeybut, um, I had a lot of people
supporting me along that and alot of people that, um, through
my ups and downs and mychildhood you know immaturity
(08:03):
and mistakes and everything else, they still believed in me and
gave me love and so that helpedpush me on to the next levels
and yeah.
So when I retired from playing,it was more like I was involved
in media.
I loved commentating on thegame, I loved bringing a
different perspective and youknow, from my experience for six
(08:23):
years playing overseas in theUK and England and the Premier
League and everything andworking at Sky Sports over there
, it seemed natural for me.
But I was always coaching.
I was always coaching youth andmy son and my two daughters and
my wife's a footballer as wellshe played pro overseas when I
was playing in England and mywife's a footballer as well.
(08:45):
She played pro overseas when Iwas playing in England, which
was kind of unheard of at thattime.
So it's ingrained in us in ourfamily.
I never forced my kids to play,it was just always there.
And you know, the number onething for us is like do they
have good character?
Are they humble and are they,you know, nice people as they
grow up.
And then the sport andeverything else is bonuses, you
(09:07):
know.
And so my son ian's playing.
He's a pro, he's going into hisninth year, uh, he'll be with
san jose earthquakes this year.
My daughter, lauren she went toclemson university, uh, under
eddie radwanski, great coach, um, and she learned a lot and
played really well there.
And then she went to Creightonand did a, uh, master's program
(09:29):
there and played under RossPauly, another great coach,
another great leader and shewent over to Denmark and played
pro and enjoyed that and, uh,now she's back here working for
us club soccer down inCharleston.
We just, uh, just moved herdown there last weekend.
And my youngest daughter wentto Elon University, played D1
(09:49):
there as well, and then she wentoverseas and got a master's
program at Oxford University,smart Cookie and she graduated
there and is working for acompany in London.
And so my wife's a Catholicschool principal and has been a
coach, you know, and a formerplayer.
(10:09):
She's a great leader, a greatmentor for kids and yeah, that's
kind of a nutshell where we are.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I love that man, all right man I rambled the whole
first section, sorry about thatNever apologize, john.
I mean, those are the greatepisodes right when you get to
really know people and I lovethis medium for that.
But you talked a lot about youand your family and your town
(10:39):
and the engagement within thegame and how you know it's good
(11:01):
to hear around the help that and, to use your word, the love
that you had surrounding you onyour journey through it.
Chris Martinovich, ourco-founder, has a great saying
from his coach, manny Shelscheit, in college First A-licensed
coach, I believe, in the US buthe used to say if you love the
game, it'll love you back.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah very true, and I was very fortunate to know
Manny Shelscheit and got a greatstory about him.
Actually, he was the rival teamin Union, new Jersey, and it
was my dad.
We were playing with my dad'steam and then my dad was
probably looking at me from aperspective of like, how can I
(11:43):
push John and what?
And?
And he asked me, that guestplayed for manny, which was, you
know, the union lancers werelike the rival to carney thistle
fc and I was like I'm notplaying for them.
And he was like, oh yes, youare this weekend.
I was like what, I wasn'tplaying for manny and uh, I
don't know if you want to hearthe story, but I learned a great
(12:06):
lesson from Manny Shellstein.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Let's hear it, man, I'm all about it.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
So, manny, just for a lot of people listening out,
there was the old school, likeyou said, the first A-licensed
coach, I believe, in thiscountry.
But he German backgrounds, hisinfluence was caring about the
people, such a great manager ofpeople, and uh, he was kind of
(12:33):
like you know you, always youwere in awe of him.
Almost you were scared of him,you feared him because of the
way his stature was, you know,um, but we knew he was such a
great manager and my dad wantedto get me a new edge to myself,
I guess, and so I went and guestplayed with manny, uh, in a
(12:54):
tournament on the weekend.
It was just a one day thingbecause he had two, two games
already, and then it was thethird day I was going there and,
uh, I started for his team,which was great, and uh, I ended
up scoring and we were, we wereup one nil Right towards the
end of the first half.
We were up one nil in thebeginning of the game and one of
(13:18):
their players equalized andManny, at halftime there was one
one and we were talking and hewas asking, like players,
accountability, like what do youthink about this play and stuff
like that.
And then, as we came back out, Iwasn't selected to go back in.
I thought I'm a guest player,that's fine, I'll just take what
I get.
But then the rest of the game Ididn't play at all and I was
(13:40):
wondering, wow man, what theheck happened there.
And I think I was about 14 atthe time and, uh, I couldn't
understand like why I'm likethat, how come you didn't let me
play if I guess that's aquestion for Manny, not me and I
was like, oh, I'm not callingthe coach, you know, so there's
no way.
And I it just kept troubling mebecause I was like I want to
(14:02):
compete with this group.
It was so good.
And I and I said, okay, nomatter what.
And I waited and waited but itwas about two in the morning and
I couldn't sleep and I finallywoke up and I went through the
other room and I shook my dad Igo, dad, I know why.
And my dad knew why?
It was because I let the guy runthrough and I didn't transition
to fend in the midfield andthat was my player and he wanted
(14:26):
to give me a chance to speakout and say that, but maybe I
was too immature or young atthat time and I didn't.
I said can I call CoachShellshite in the morning?
He's like my dad's like, yes,you can, he goes good for you.
Go back to bed.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
So I did.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And I called him and I said you know, we had a long
talk and when I said I think Iunderstand why I didn't get a
chance to play second half, andI presented it to him and he
goes aha, so you've beenthinking about the game, he goes
.
That's what I was trying to getyou to do at halftime and I'm
like, sorry, I'm just socompetitive I couldn't think
about it.
But ever since then he made mechange the way I play in the
(15:07):
midfield and I became a moretrue number eight, box and box
midfielder, not just attackingand creating.
I was at that age.
I started adding defensive tome posture, grittiness and
coming out of New Jersey, out ofKearney, I had to do that to
survive and so he pushed me toadd that even more, made me
focus on it.
So he changed me as a player,without a doubt.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That's such a cool story, man.
I love those.
That's such an awesome story,yeah, so how talk a little bit
about uh and you and you kind oftouched on this with kind of
how things have changed a littlebit.
But talk a little bit aboutyour pathway.
Like everybody wants tounderstand and talk, or you know
, how did they get to where theygot to within their playing
(15:54):
career?
What was your?
Because it's very different,you know, then versus now.
In a lot of respects, some ofit's the same, but there's a and
not everybody's is the sameright.
There's multiple pathways, butthere's a uh, and not
everybody's is the same right.
There's multiple pathways, butwhat?
What was?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
yours like Um, I mean , you know, look, I mean it was
back in the day.
That platform was completelydifferent.
Like I said before, it was likeyou know, we were getting
picked out of high school.
You know people were coming towatch us freshman year.
You know, on the varsity teamwe're a sophomore year.
You know it was like statechampions.
We were in the state finalsfour years in a row.
(16:31):
We went undefeated in our.
I was in my junior year, Ithink 24-0.
And you know people were comingto watch us play at the high
school level.
My dad coaches in the club level.
You know Thistle Football Club,thistle FC, which still exists
today and is running really well, and the next generation of
(16:51):
people that grew up in that clubare managing it now really well
.
So great players.
And you know it was just, itwas different.
You know the structure wasdifferent, uh, but at the same
time, what would never change, Ithink, is that if you're good
enough, you're going to be seenand and whether you know you had
to have patience through thatprocess, you know, and you had
(17:14):
to go through the whole odp.
You know some of the old schoolfirst platforms of odp back in
the day that's how old I am um,and state state tournaments and
tryouts and all that stuff.
It was great.
But yeah, it came down to, ofcourse, talent.
You've got to have talent toget recognized.
But that's not everything.
(17:37):
And even today, when I'mcoaching in McLean as a youth
club in our community, orwhether I was coaching at FC
Cincinnati or coaching at NewYork Red Bulls with Bruce Ring
or coaching in Greenville in theUSL as well, in League One, it
was always about doing thehonest, hard work.
I mean the players that put thework in and put the extra
(18:00):
training in and thedetail-oriented training and
that really showed and it reallyhelped you kind of grow.
And I think I was always, itwas always ingrained in me to to
do that.
You know, I didn't knowanything else but to be honest
and work and fight and competeand help out my teammates.
It was never just about me, itwas always about a group you
(18:22):
know of people, um, so you knowI I think that was more or less
you know that edge that I alwayshad, um, I think I've always
had that edge and also being abuilder and starting up clubs
and building clubs from theground up, because I have that
kind of that, that crittiness,that edge about me to prove to
(18:43):
other people around the worldthat the americans can do it.
You know that we can grow ourown leagues, like we went for an
absence after the cosmos fall,didn't?
I was a ball boy for the cosmosand I?
I got to interact with a layand kreuf and georgio canalia
and santiago formosa, who camefrom carney and made it as a pro
(19:04):
, and uh, so that was like I wasright there, I was in the
backyard, it was 20 minutes frommy home, you know, playing at
Giant Stadium and uh, I alwayswanted that, but there was that
absence when that folded, theNASL folded and there was
nothing for us and so there wasno professional leagues unless
(19:24):
you went indoor.
It was kind of obscure andspecific towns or states across
the country had teams and noteverybody did.
It was a smaller kind ofplatform, but I wanted to
continue to grow and become abetter player and uh, I think
that that edger was kind ofpushed me to say, like you know,
(19:45):
we can do it as an american,you know, and uh, I still have
that to the fate and that's whyyou see me going to the usl and
you know, becoming the sportingdirector and the head coach and
growing the game and givingplayers opportunities and
coaching staff opportunities toyou know, to grow in the game as
well, I think it's fantastic.
I love that part, um, so I'llcontinue to do that if I get the
(20:07):
opportunity.
So but I think that's kind ofme in a nutshell, like how did I
get connected to the game?
I love it, it's, it's in myblood, it's everything, um, you
know you throw a ball out therewest.
You know this, and players andfamilies and kids and so
inclusive everybody just comestogether around a ball.
That's the best thing in theworld all right, it is, it's um.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
it was actually uh, matt mcconaughey.
When they he got interviewedabout his involvement with aust
FC, he said something thatreally stuck with me and I love
it is the way that he put it wasit's the world's universal
handshake.
You just throw a ball down andyou say you don't say a single
(20:53):
word, you don't need to speakthe same language.
You throw a ball down and it'slet's go, let's have some fun,
let's play some footy, andyou're going to get that in 90
of the of the corners of theworld.
You know, um, and then I thatthat's my favorite thing about
the sport is the way that itconnects people and brings
people together in a whole hostof different uh ways, not just
(21:14):
players, but um, and impactscommunities for the better.
So that's awesome, man, man, Ilove that.
Talk about you.
I mean you're, you're one ofthe few that's made it uh.
And talk about your experienceplaying in.
You know you've played in MLS,you played in the Premier League
(21:35):
, you played in Olympics, youplayed in world cups.
Talk about what that's like,man, and and I don't care where
you go, but um, you, you you'vehit one uh, you, you have one of
the most famous goals in inPremier League history, uh, at
Sheffield um Wednesday to bespecific, uh that that that
could go very wrong for acertain subset of that town.
(21:57):
Um, but anyway, talk, talkabout what it's like being a
professional player.
I mean you always for peoplelistening and players.
There's obviously a differencebetween making it to, you know,
the collegiate level or theacademy level now and you're on
the cusp of breaking it into thefirst team, and then the
(22:18):
difference between making itthat far and then those players
that are really, really greatthat get to have that chance on
the world stage yeah, I meanit's it's.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I mean it's it's um.
It's hard to explain that.
It's like the it's a it'sEverybody uses these cliches,
but it is a dream come true toplay at that level, to represent
your nation, is absolutely anincredible honor.
And from the first time that Igot recognized to go and play
(22:56):
for the youth national team orin the Olympics, in olympics in
seoul, korea, in 88, even youknow to the first time that you
play for your national team,senior national team, it's just
like the most proud moment andbut it's also, you know, the
humblingest moment, because youknow there's so many other
people that could be there andand they want that jersey and
(23:19):
that opportunity too.
But so you know you've got totake that and and run with it
and do the best you could toalways add to your game.
And I, I constantly ask playersthat all the time.
Now, at the pro levels, it'slike, you know, even the youth
levels, it's like what are youadding to your game?
And they're like what?
(23:40):
Like you're a good player, butwhat are you adding?
What are you working on now?
And they're always like I don'tknow, like, well, somebody else
is always working on their game.
So you got to do that, you know, and that I think that's part
of my growth.
When I was younger, I was alwaystrying to do different things
and be creative and artistic andhave imagination.
But I mean, I guess I alwayshad that grittiness to compete
(24:02):
and win challenges and defendwell and you know, and, and be
hard, you know, not to, you knowto shy away from any tackles or
anything like that.
So, um, but I always thoughttoo, though those those moments
that I've had, and you know, youmentioned the goal of the year
that I received against DarbyCounty for Sheffield-Wisea.
(24:23):
It was in a cup match and weended up going to the League Cup
final and beating man Unitedthat year at Wembley.
That was in the first sevenmonths that I was in England, so
it was crazy, but I always knewthat I'm very lucky to have
that platform, and I better useit for positive change, you know
.
And to have that platform, and Ibetter use it for positive
change, you know, and um, tohave some positivity in somebody
else's life.
And you know, if I could, youknow, connect the game or put a
(24:47):
smile on someone's face, or godo a visit at a hospital or
leukemia lymphoma society, likeI, was very fortunate to use
soccer and that platform to beable to reach so many other
people.
And, uh, soccer and thatplatform to be able to reach so
many other people, um and uh itthe minute that you lose that
and you lose yourself and whatyour purpose is.
So I've kept that with me allthe time and I still do those
(25:09):
things.
And charity, uh, you know,begins in the home, but charity
is very critical for everybodyto do and take part in.
So I think, think I love thegame that much and it's awesome
to grow it at different levels,but it's always so good to give
back and to give into yourcommunity.
It's the most important thingfor everybody and if you can do
(25:32):
that, then you're doing theright things.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I love that you're doing the right things.
I love that and I love thatabout um, the league and and how
, in particular, usl uh is sucha grassroots based league and
very, very, very active.
All the teams are in their, intheir communities in different
(25:58):
ways, um, and it's not to saythat you know other leagues, uh,
don't do this because they doum, but it's, you know, it's so,
so important for the overallmodel within usl um and it's the
.
It's something that everybodyacross the board, along the
(26:20):
organizations to the players, tothe technical staff, are super
passionate about, and when youcan find that that sets
everybody up for somethingspecial right, I agree, and you
look at Ozark, and, and you knowwhat you and, like chris, you
(26:42):
know martinovich and everybodylike their, their vision, you
know.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
But their mission statement is to be a community
club.
You know it's to reallyrepresent the community the
right way and to have thoseopportunities, and both for both
genders, for the, for the menand the women, for the boys and
the girls.
It's critical.
So it's establishing thatculture is the first thing to do
(27:09):
, and that's not easy.
It is not easy and people sayit and they can throw out the
buzzwords, but the action thatyou take is critical to back
that up.
Knowing how to manage thatalong the way is critical as
well.
You can't get ahead of yourself, you can't get caught up in the
(27:31):
wins and loss columns if you'renot winning off the field for
sure.
That's important.
I'm excited for you guys andwhat you're doing.
You know it's always art united, it looks like an amazing
project.
Good people you know as well asI do.
You're only as good as thepeople around you.
And, uh, when you look to buildit the right way, like that,
with the right people, it'sfantastic such a great.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I love that.
Thanks, john.
Well, I think we'll leave itthere for part one of our convo.
Uh, john Hark's US soccerlegend.
Thank you so much, man, forjoining me for this episode of
Pitch to Pro.
Uh, for everybody listening,remember that you can find us at
pitch to procom or wherever youfind your your podcast Apple,
spotify and until next time,northwest Arkansas cheers.
(28:18):
Thanks for joining us on thisepisode of the Pitch to Pro
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Pitch to Pro is the official podcast of Ozark United
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This will be our platform totell our story about the club
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This is a journey we want tobring you along for the ride.
We'll share what's going onbehind the curtain, help educate
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(00:25):
updates on the progress of theclub along the way.
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(00:46):
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(01:07):
Hello everybody and welcomeback to the Pitch to Pro podcast
.
I'm your host, wes Harris,managing Director for Ozark
United FC, northwest Arkansas'professional soccer club,
playing in the United SoccerLeague.
Today I am super stoked aboutmy guest, a US soccer legend,
playing all over the world inall kinds of different
competitions, leagues, teamsthat you guys know.
(01:29):
Mr John Harkes, now technicaldirector for the McLean Youth
Soccer in Virginia.
John, thank you so much, man,for joining me today.
I can't wait to dive in.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
No, my pleasure.
Wes Great to be on with you,Looking forward to our
discussion on many, many, manyplatforms and then making sure
that we get this wrapped up intime for us to watch the
Liverpool top of the match.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I know that's probably the most.
I did wear the DC United jerseyfor you today.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I love it that is my uniform.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Every podcast episode is to wear a jersey.
So I made sure to bring thatone.
I love yours even more.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
McAllister on the back.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
He's doing such an awesome job.
He's one of my favorites, sohow are?
you.
I'm great man, we're doing allkinds of great things, uh, but
you know, one of these, one ofthe things that we do is this
podcast to kind of educatepeople on what we're doing, get
people more excited about thegame and you know soccer 101,
(02:39):
but also talking to people thathave been there, done that in
other markets kind of likeyourself within our league, but
also as a player, and experiencethat growth within the sport,
um, over the last, you know, 40years or so, so, uh, first,
let's let's just like start fromthe beginning.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Give people a little bit about you, your background,
um, and how you kind of foundthe game yeah, um, so grew up in
kearney, new jersey, uh,k-e-a-r-n-y big, big, massive
history uh of soccer in thattown uh soccer town, usa man
(03:14):
yeah, I mean that you know tommccabe, friend of ours,
historian in the game, did agreat job putting that together,
uh, with and Tony and I, andhaving three players play on the
same World Cup team, two WorldCups.
It was crazy From such a small,maybe 40,000 population at the
(03:38):
time in that town 36,000 maybe,and it just a lot of people.
What they don't know about this36,000 maybe and it just, you
know, a lot of people what theydon't know about this, wes is
that the game goes back inKearney, way before us in our
generation.
There are so many.
There were other players thatplayed, you know, on the World
Cup teams for Kearney and not alot of people know that and
(03:59):
people don't really talk aboutthat much.
So, from my perspective, I lovethe history of the game.
I am very respectful of thepeople that have, you know,
worked really hard andtirelessly to build the game in
our country.
I always have time for peoplelike that.
It's a big respect for me fordifferent coaches, players that
(04:22):
have had their own journeys, youknow, and had given us
opportunities to step in and,like you said, build things.
And you know I love, you know,the fact that I was able to, at
four years old, start playingwith a recreation team you know
the U7s and with my brother'steam that my dad let me play,
(04:44):
probably legally.
My dad coached me all my youthcareer up until I went to UVX.
He didn't touch us when we wereat Kearney High School because
at those days, back in the day,kearney High School and the high
school game was that's whereyou got recruited to go to
college, whereas now theplatform's changed.
(05:05):
In some states it's it's cluband in some states it's still.
The high school programs arereally strong, it's based on
what you have, uh, but my dadraised my brother and I and my
sister debbie.
Uh, my mom was always supportiveand really incarnate.
It was a very unique kind ofsituation where you know you've
(05:29):
heard this saying it takes avillage.
You know well, we had thevillage we had, if it wasn't my
parents taking me to a game, orit was somebody else's parents,
or we were jumping in this vanor we were hitchhiking down to
New Jersey State tryouts.
It was crazy.
We just did everything we couldand there wasn't a lot of
(05:50):
outdoor kind of structure, itwas just more or less find
yourself and survive in the game.
And, you know, one of thebiggest things that I remember
from my youth days was that mydad had had so much passion
coming from scotland and heplayed himself.
My mom both you know came fromscotland as well.
Um, in the town of carney itwas a lot of scottish, english
(06:14):
and irish immigrants at thattime that had come over for work
.
Um, there's a couple ofindustrial textile companies
called the clark thread companyand they started some of the uh
really semi-pro teams back inthe day and even competed in the
open cup.
Um, it goes back as far as the1800s in carney.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Wow, uh which is crazy and uh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
So for me it was like here we are, we're on this
journey and, um, it was done,you know, way before us.
So you have to have thatunderstanding.
And, um, my, my parents werevery supportive, loving, you
know, didn't have a lot, it wasa very blue-collar town,
hard-working town, um, but I didgrow up with a very optimistic
(07:00):
approach and enthusiasticapproach to the game and to
people.
I love collaborating andsharing ideas and meeting people
and understanding what theirbackground is and where they
came from and what makes themtick, you know.
So soccer connects you in allways and I was very fortunate to
grow up in the game and havethat success.
(07:21):
And, you know, have thoseopportunities because, you know,
soccer just really gave me achance to go to UVA and have
that success.
And, you know, have thoseopportunities because, um, you
know it, soccer just really gaveme a chance to go to UVA, uh,
university of Virginia, one ofthe top schools in the country,
uh, to get an education but alsoto play and compete for Bruce
arena and Dave Sarakin and growup and mature and, uh, and then
(07:42):
have an opportunity to play inthe Olympics in 88.
And then, you know, 90, 94,world Cup.
So, yeah, it's a long journeybut, um, I had a lot of people
supporting me along that and alot of people that, um, through
my ups and downs and mychildhood you know immaturity
(08:03):
and mistakes and everything else, they still believed in me and
gave me love and so that helpedpush me on to the next levels
and yeah.
So when I retired from playing,it was more like I was involved
in media.
I loved commentating on thegame, I loved bringing a
different perspective and youknow, from my experience for six
(08:23):
years playing overseas in theUK and England and the Premier
League and everything andworking at Sky Sports over there
, it seemed natural for me.
But I was always coaching.
I was always coaching youth andmy son and my two daughters and
my wife's a footballer as wellshe played pro overseas when I
was playing in England and mywife's a footballer as well.
(08:45):
She played pro overseas when Iwas playing in England, which
was kind of unheard of at thattime.
So it's ingrained in us in ourfamily.
I never forced my kids to play,it was just always there.
And you know, the number onething for us is like do they
have good character?
Are they humble and are they,you know, nice people as they
grow up.
And then the sport andeverything else is bonuses, you
(09:07):
know.
And so my son ian's playing.
He's a pro, he's going into hisninth year, uh, he'll be with
san jose earthquakes this year.
My daughter, lauren she went toclemson university, uh, under
eddie radwanski, great coach, um, and she learned a lot and
played really well there.
And then she went to Creightonand did a, uh, master's program
(09:29):
there and played under RossPauly, another great coach,
another great leader and shewent over to Denmark and played
pro and enjoyed that and, uh,now she's back here working for
us club soccer down inCharleston.
We just, uh, just moved herdown there last weekend.
And my youngest daughter wentto Elon University, played D1
(09:49):
there as well, and then she wentoverseas and got a master's
program at Oxford University,smart Cookie and she graduated
there and is working for acompany in London.
And so my wife's a Catholicschool principal and has been a
coach, you know, and a formerplayer.
(10:09):
She's a great leader, a greatmentor for kids and yeah, that's
kind of a nutshell where we are.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I love that man, all right man I rambled the whole
first section, sorry about thatNever apologize, john.
I mean, those are the greatepisodes right when you get to
really know people and I lovethis medium for that.
But you talked a lot about youand your family and your town
(10:39):
and the engagement within thegame and how you know it's good
(11:01):
to hear around the help that and, to use your word, the love
that you had surrounding you onyour journey through it.
Chris Martinovich, ourco-founder, has a great saying
from his coach, manny Shelscheit, in college First A-licensed
coach, I believe, in the US buthe used to say if you love the
game, it'll love you back.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah very true, and I was very fortunate to know
Manny Shelscheit and got a greatstory about him.
Actually, he was the rival teamin Union, new Jersey, and it
was my dad.
We were playing with my dad'steam and then my dad was
probably looking at me from aperspective of like, how can I
(11:43):
push John and what?
And?
And he asked me, that guestplayed for manny, which was, you
know, the union lancers werelike the rival to carney thistle
fc and I was like I'm notplaying for them.
And he was like, oh yes, youare this weekend.
I was like what, I wasn'tplaying for manny and uh, I
don't know if you want to hearthe story, but I learned a great
(12:06):
lesson from Manny Shellstein.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Let's hear it, man, I'm all about it.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
So, manny, just for a lot of people listening out,
there was the old school, likeyou said, the first A-licensed
coach, I believe, in thiscountry.
But he German backgrounds, hisinfluence was caring about the
people, such a great manager ofpeople, and uh, he was kind of
(12:33):
like you know you, always youwere in awe of him.
Almost you were scared of him,you feared him because of the
way his stature was, you know,um, but we knew he was such a
great manager and my dad wantedto get me a new edge to myself,
I guess, and so I went and guestplayed with manny, uh, in a
(12:54):
tournament on the weekend.
It was just a one day thingbecause he had two, two games
already, and then it was thethird day I was going there and,
uh, I started for his team,which was great, and uh, I ended
up scoring and we were, we wereup one nil Right towards the
end of the first half.
We were up one nil in thebeginning of the game and one of
(13:18):
their players equalized andManny, at halftime there was one
one and we were talking and hewas asking, like players,
accountability, like what do youthink about this play and stuff
like that.
And then, as we came back out, Iwasn't selected to go back in.
I thought I'm a guest player,that's fine, I'll just take what
I get.
But then the rest of the game Ididn't play at all and I was
(13:40):
wondering, wow man, what theheck happened there.
And I think I was about 14 atthe time and, uh, I couldn't
understand like why I'm likethat, how come you didn't let me
play if I guess that's aquestion for Manny, not me and I
was like, oh, I'm not callingthe coach, you know, so there's
no way.
And I it just kept troubling mebecause I was like I want to
(14:02):
compete with this group.
It was so good.
And I and I said, okay, nomatter what.
And I waited and waited but itwas about two in the morning and
I couldn't sleep and I finallywoke up and I went through the
other room and I shook my dad Igo, dad, I know why.
And my dad knew why?
It was because I let the guy runthrough and I didn't transition
to fend in the midfield andthat was my player and he wanted
(14:26):
to give me a chance to speakout and say that, but maybe I
was too immature or young atthat time and I didn't.
I said can I call CoachShellshite in the morning?
He's like my dad's like, yes,you can, he goes good for you.
Go back to bed.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
So I did.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And I called him and I said you know, we had a long
talk and when I said I think Iunderstand why I didn't get a
chance to play second half, andI presented it to him and he
goes aha, so you've beenthinking about the game, he goes
.
That's what I was trying to getyou to do at halftime and I'm
like, sorry, I'm just socompetitive I couldn't think
about it.
But ever since then he made mechange the way I play in the
(15:07):
midfield and I became a moretrue number eight, box and box
midfielder, not just attackingand creating.
I was at that age.
I started adding defensive tome posture, grittiness and
coming out of New Jersey, out ofKearney, I had to do that to
survive and so he pushed me toadd that even more, made me
focus on it.
So he changed me as a player,without a doubt.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That's such a cool story, man.
I love those.
That's such an awesome story,yeah, so how talk a little bit
about uh and you and you kind oftouched on this with kind of
how things have changed a littlebit.
But talk a little bit aboutyour pathway.
Like everybody wants tounderstand and talk, or you know
, how did they get to where theygot to within their playing
(15:54):
career?
What was your?
Because it's very different,you know, then versus now.
In a lot of respects, some ofit's the same, but there's a and
not everybody's is the sameright.
There's multiple pathways, butthere's a uh, and not
everybody's is the same right.
There's multiple pathways, butwhat?
What was?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
yours like Um, I mean , you know, look, I mean it was
back in the day.
That platform was completelydifferent.
Like I said before, it was likeyou know, we were getting
picked out of high school.
You know people were coming towatch us freshman year.
You know, on the varsity teamwe're a sophomore year.
You know it was like statechampions.
We were in the state finalsfour years in a row.
(16:31):
We went undefeated in our.
I was in my junior year, Ithink 24-0.
And you know people were comingto watch us play at the high
school level.
My dad coaches in the club level.
You know Thistle Football Club,thistle FC, which still exists
today and is running really well, and the next generation of
(16:51):
people that grew up in that clubare managing it now really well
.
So great players.
And you know it was just, itwas different.
You know the structure wasdifferent, uh, but at the same
time, what would never change, Ithink, is that if you're good
enough, you're going to be seenand and whether you know you had
to have patience through thatprocess, you know, and you had
(17:14):
to go through the whole odp.
You know some of the old schoolfirst platforms of odp back in
the day that's how old I am um,and state state tournaments and
tryouts and all that stuff.
It was great.
But yeah, it came down to, ofcourse, talent.
You've got to have talent toget recognized.
But that's not everything.
(17:37):
And even today, when I'mcoaching in McLean as a youth
club in our community, orwhether I was coaching at FC
Cincinnati or coaching at NewYork Red Bulls with Bruce Ring
or coaching in Greenville in theUSL as well, in League One, it
was always about doing thehonest, hard work.
I mean the players that put thework in and put the extra
(18:00):
training in and thedetail-oriented training and
that really showed and it reallyhelped you kind of grow.
And I think I was always, itwas always ingrained in me to to
do that.
You know, I didn't knowanything else but to be honest
and work and fight and competeand help out my teammates.
It was never just about me, itwas always about a group you
(18:22):
know of people, um, so you knowI I think that was more or less
you know that edge that I alwayshad, um, I think I've always
had that edge and also being abuilder and starting up clubs
and building clubs from theground up, because I have that
kind of that, that crittiness,that edge about me to prove to
(18:43):
other people around the worldthat the americans can do it.
You know that we can grow ourown leagues, like we went for an
absence after the cosmos fall,didn't?
I was a ball boy for the cosmosand I?
I got to interact with a layand kreuf and georgio canalia
and santiago formosa, who camefrom carney and made it as a pro
(19:04):
, and uh, so that was like I wasright there, I was in the
backyard, it was 20 minutes frommy home, you know, playing at
Giant Stadium and uh, I alwayswanted that, but there was that
absence when that folded, theNASL folded and there was
nothing for us and so there wasno professional leagues unless
(19:24):
you went indoor.
It was kind of obscure andspecific towns or states across
the country had teams and noteverybody did.
It was a smaller kind ofplatform, but I wanted to
continue to grow and become abetter player and uh, I think
that that edger was kind ofpushed me to say, like you know,
(19:45):
we can do it as an american,you know, and uh, I still have
that to the fate and that's whyyou see me going to the usl and
you know, becoming the sportingdirector and the head coach and
growing the game and givingplayers opportunities and
coaching staff opportunities toyou know, to grow in the game as
well, I think it's fantastic.
I love that part, um, so I'llcontinue to do that if I get the
(20:07):
opportunity.
So but I think that's kind ofme in a nutshell, like how did I
get connected to the game?
I love it, it's, it's in myblood, it's everything, um, you
know you throw a ball out therewest.
You know this, and players andfamilies and kids and so
inclusive everybody just comestogether around a ball.
That's the best thing in theworld all right, it is, it's um.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
it was actually uh, matt mcconaughey.
When they he got interviewedabout his involvement with aust
FC, he said something thatreally stuck with me and I love
it is the way that he put it wasit's the world's universal
handshake.
You just throw a ball down andyou say you don't say a single
(20:53):
word, you don't need to speakthe same language.
You throw a ball down and it'slet's go, let's have some fun,
let's play some footy, andyou're going to get that in 90
of the of the corners of theworld.
You know, um, and then I thatthat's my favorite thing about
the sport is the way that itconnects people and brings
people together in a whole hostof different uh ways, not just
(21:14):
players, but um, and impactscommunities for the better.
So that's awesome, man, man, Ilove that.
Talk about you.
I mean you're, you're one ofthe few that's made it uh.
And talk about your experienceplaying in.
You know you've played in MLS,you played in the Premier League
(21:35):
, you played in Olympics, youplayed in world cups.
Talk about what that's like,man, and and I don't care where
you go, but um, you, you you'vehit one uh, you, you have one of
the most famous goals in inPremier League history, uh, at
Sheffield um Wednesday to bespecific, uh that that that
could go very wrong for acertain subset of that town.
(21:57):
Um, but anyway, talk, talkabout what it's like being a
professional player.
I mean you always for peoplelistening and players.
There's obviously a differencebetween making it to, you know,
the collegiate level or theacademy level now and you're on
the cusp of breaking it into thefirst team, and then the
(22:18):
difference between making itthat far and then those players
that are really, really greatthat get to have that chance on
the world stage yeah, I meanit's it's.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I mean it's it's um.
It's hard to explain that.
It's like the it's a it'sEverybody uses these cliches,
but it is a dream come true toplay at that level, to represent
your nation, is absolutely anincredible honor.
And from the first time that Igot recognized to go and play
(22:56):
for the youth national team orin the Olympics, in olympics in
seoul, korea, in 88, even youknow to the first time that you
play for your national team,senior national team, it's just
like the most proud moment andbut it's also, you know, the
humblingest moment, because youknow there's so many other
people that could be there andand they want that jersey and
(23:19):
that opportunity too.
But so you know you've got totake that and and run with it
and do the best you could toalways add to your game.
And I, I constantly ask playersthat all the time.
Now, at the pro levels, it'slike, you know, even the youth
levels, it's like what are youadding to your game?
And they're like what?
(23:40):
Like you're a good player, butwhat are you adding?
What are you working on now?
And they're always like I don'tknow, like, well, somebody else
is always working on their game.
So you got to do that, you know, and that I think that's part
of my growth.
When I was younger, I was alwaystrying to do different things
and be creative and artistic andhave imagination.
But I mean, I guess I alwayshad that grittiness to compete
(24:02):
and win challenges and defendwell and you know, and, and be
hard, you know, not to, you knowto shy away from any tackles or
anything like that.
So, um, but I always thoughttoo, though those those moments
that I've had, and you know, youmentioned the goal of the year
that I received against DarbyCounty for Sheffield-Wisea.
(24:23):
It was in a cup match and weended up going to the League Cup
final and beating man Unitedthat year at Wembley.
That was in the first sevenmonths that I was in England, so
it was crazy, but I always knewthat I'm very lucky to have
that platform, and I better useit for positive change, you know
.
And to have that platform, and Ibetter use it for positive
change, you know, and um, tohave some positivity in somebody
else's life.
And you know, if I could, youknow, connect the game or put a
(24:47):
smile on someone's face, or godo a visit at a hospital or
leukemia lymphoma society, likeI, was very fortunate to use
soccer and that platform to beable to reach so many other
people.
And, uh, soccer and thatplatform to be able to reach so
many other people, um and uh itthe minute that you lose that
and you lose yourself and whatyour purpose is.
So I've kept that with me allthe time and I still do those
(25:09):
things.
And charity, uh, you know,begins in the home, but charity
is very critical for everybodyto do and take part in.
So I think, think I love thegame that much and it's awesome
to grow it at different levels,but it's always so good to give
back and to give into yourcommunity.
It's the most important thingfor everybody and if you can do
(25:32):
that, then you're doing theright things.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I love that you're doing the right things.
I love that and I love thatabout um, the league and and how
, in particular, usl uh is sucha grassroots based league and
very, very, very active.
All the teams are in their, intheir communities in different
(25:58):
ways, um, and it's not to saythat you know other leagues, uh,
don't do this because they doum, but it's, you know, it's so,
so important for the overallmodel within usl um and it's the
.
It's something that everybodyacross the board, along the
(26:20):
organizations to the players, tothe technical staff, are super
passionate about, and when youcan find that that sets
everybody up for somethingspecial right, I agree, and you
look at Ozark, and, and you knowwhat you and, like chris, you
(26:42):
know martinovich and everybodylike their, their vision, you
know.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
But their mission statement is to be a community
club.
You know it's to reallyrepresent the community the
right way and to have thoseopportunities, and both for both
genders, for the, for the menand the women, for the boys and
the girls.
It's critical.
So it's establishing thatculture is the first thing to do
(27:09):
, and that's not easy.
It is not easy and people sayit and they can throw out the
buzzwords, but the action thatyou take is critical to back
that up.
Knowing how to manage thatalong the way is critical as
well.
You can't get ahead of yourself, you can't get caught up in the
(27:31):
wins and loss columns if you'renot winning off the field for
sure.
That's important.
I'm excited for you guys andwhat you're doing.
You know it's always art united, it looks like an amazing
project.
Good people you know as well asI do.
You're only as good as thepeople around you.
And, uh, when you look to buildit the right way, like that,
with the right people, it'sfantastic such a great.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I love that.
Thanks, john.
Well, I think we'll leave itthere for part one of our convo.
Uh, john Hark's US soccerlegend.
Thank you so much, man, forjoining me for this episode of
Pitch to Pro.
Uh, for everybody listening,remember that you can find us at
pitch to procom or wherever youfind your your podcast Apple,
spotify and until next time,northwest Arkansas cheers.
(28:18):
Thanks for joining us on thisepisode of the Pitch to Pro
podcast.
Be sure to tune in again in twoweeks for the next installment
and check out the Stoppage Timeseries for a recap of today's
episode.
Be sure to find us at Pitch toPro on YouTube, instagram and
everywhere you get your podcasts.
Until next time, northwestArkansas cheers.
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