February 27, 2025 • 24 mins
U.S. soccer legend John Harkes steps into the spotlight as we explore his fascinating journey from a celebrated player to an influential coach. Discover the secrets behind John’s transition to media work with "MLS Wrap" while nurturing his coaching passion through youth clubs. He generously shares his coaching philosophy, rooted in humility and creating opportunities for others, drawing from his time with esteemed mentors like Louis van Gaal and Frank Rijkaard. John recounts his enriching experiences coaching the under-20 national team in Holland alongside the late Sigi Schmid and his professional adventures with the New York Red Bulls under the guidance of Bruce Arena.
In another compelling segment, we shine a light on the pivotal role of the United Soccer League (USL) in shaping the U.S. soccer landscape. We delve into the importance of a robust pyramid structure for both men and women, offering vital platforms for budding talents to hone their skills. Through our engaging conversation, we offer a fresh perspective on the evolution of soccer in the United States and the potential of promotion and relegation systems within the USL. Celebrate the resilience of USL clubs as they navigate challenges like the COVID-19 pandemic and witness the exciting expansion of USL League One, all contributing to a thriving soccer community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Pitch to Pro is the official podcast of Ozark United
FC.
This will be our platform totell our story about the club
and the special place that wecall home, northwest Arkansas.
This is a journey we want tobring you along for the ride.
We'll share what's going onbehind the curtain, help educate
the community at large aboutsoccer, our league, and give
(00:25):
updates on the progress of theclub along the way.
Together, we'll explore andunpack our journey to
professional soccer, the magicthat is NWA, our community, and
talk all things soccer from onthe pitch to behind the scenes,
telling the story of our club.
Pitch to Pro Podcast is proudlysponsored by PodcastVideoscom.
(00:46):
Podcastvideoscom is NorthwestArkansas' premier podcast
recording studio, equipped withindustry-leading equipment.
The recording studio andservices save you time, money
and hassle.
They are dedicated to helpingyou create, record and publish
high-quality podcasts for youraudience.
Be sure to check them out todayat podcastvideoscom.
(01:07):
Hello everybody and welcomeback to the Pitch to Pro podcast
.
I am your host, wes Harris,managing Director for Ozark
United FC, northwest Arkansas'professional soccer club,
playing in the United SoccerLeague.
I am back for round two with USsoccer legend Mr John Harkes,
technical director now forMcLean Youth Soccer, among Jack
(01:29):
of All Trades as well.
But, john, welcome back andthank you for joining me again
on Pitch to Pro man.
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Wow, my pleasure.
Wes.
Thanks for having me on.
You know it's a part of a longline of you know it's hard to
get on your show.
You know you keep closing thedoor and I'll be glad you opened
it today.
It was just great.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
That's awesome.
Well, last time, for those thatmissed it, we talked about
John's illustrious playingcareer, path to path to pro, and
just what the game means to somany different people in
different communities and partsof the world.
And today, john, we talked alot about how you found the game
and your experience as a playeron multiple platforms.
(02:11):
Today, I'd like to talk abouthow you transitioned out from
your professional career and howyou found yourself and kind of
your path to coaching, to startat least, and then we'll see
where it goes from there.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, it's a great question because you know I I
kind of had was I don't know.
I was very lucky to, you know,fortunate to to work in media as
well.
You know, I did the first umMLS kind of highlight show that
was sort of like match of theday program called MLS rap, you
(02:45):
know, with Fox TV as soon as Iretired and I kind of got thrown
into that really quickly and Iwas working out in California
and traveling back on weekendsand red eyes and but I was
coaching my kids in the youthclub at that time.
So it was a lot and I lovedcoaching, you know.
But talking about the game hasalways been fun for me, um, and
(03:07):
and it brought me, you know,great platforms, you know, and
really some great experiencesand moments and people that I
got to work with and call gameswith.
You know Ian Dark, you know JPDe La Camera, like all of these.
You know Martin Tyler.
You know I got to work withmartin in the last world cup,
you know, which was amazing andhe and I were partners and so
(03:29):
that stuff, you know, coveringthe game that way is is fun, but
the coaching aspect for me hasalways been the most rewarding
and it's the most humbling, uh,that you can work hard to create
opportunities for other peopleto love the game and you can
find ways to help them throughall their adversity, their up
(03:51):
and downs, and still find a waythat maybe they create a pathway
for themselves.
There is opportunity there.
I think that's the criticalpart, my coaching aspects.
My dad was a coach and I alwayslearned a lot from him and
always wanted to be a coach andteaching the game.
(04:13):
And coaches become the bestcoaches they can be when they
remove the ego and they knowthat they're serving others.
And that's the hard challengefor a lot of coaches.
And it's a hard challenge for alot of coaches and it's a hard
challenge for a lot of formerplayers because it's a
completely different approachand it's a completely different
platform than what they wereused to.
So you know, I've learned froma lot of great coaches and
(04:40):
studied the game tremendously,went and researched it overseas
as well.
When I retired, I went andworked with louis van gaal, uh,
who was coaching at the time ataz akmar.
I went to danny blind at ix andI I coached and watched under
him for a while at frankreichardt when he was at
barcelona back in the day, um,and I thought, yeah, I want to
(05:02):
pursue this for sure.
And so I did that, you know, onmy own.
It wasn't like I was part of aprogram.
I did the coaching educationlicenses early when I first
retired as a player, and back in2003.
And I got my A license in 2005.
Two years later, they made youwait, which was great.
They made you wait, which wasgreat.
(05:23):
So I felt like, you know, Ijust no matter where the game
took me.
You know I love coaching and so, whether it was a youth club,
you know, and coaching andgiving back to the kids in the
community or, you know, findingthat level of college or pro,
(05:51):
and, yeah, so I guess, my firstreal pro.
Well, I coached for theunder-20 national team in
Holland in the Youth World Cupwith Ziggy Schmidt, you know,
god rest his soul.
A fantastic person and what agreat coach, what a great
manager.
I learned so much from him andfrom there it just took off.
You know I would coach new york,rimbles and mls and bruce arena
, um, legendary coach and uh youknow, friend and mentor, you
(06:11):
know for sure, took me on a uvato coach me at the national team
, coach me dc united.
So a lot of not just winninggames but a lot of really good
experiences there and uh, and itjust grew from there, you know.
And then, the more that I wascoaching as an assistant at mls
um, you know bruce and and davesarakin and bob bradley coaches
(06:35):
like that that I've been able to, you know, manage with and even
coaches overseas.
You know, every red nap at westhill um, ron, I can see my
first coach at SheffieldWednesday they were all telling
me like, if you go into coaching, you've got to go down.
You got to, you know.
You got to be able to be a headcoach yourself and you got to
(06:55):
suffer.
You got to be able to coachwith a frugal budget and you've
got to be able to identifyplayers and put that together
and negotiate fees.
And so the USL was anincredible platform to do that
and I was given an opportunityat Jake Edwards.
He said that FC Cincinnati waslooking to get into the USL
(07:17):
championship back in 2015 and2016.
So I was able to get that joband we finished third in our
first year got to playoffs andcreated a great fan base there
and the club marketed so welland they had a strategic plan in
place, um.
And then, after I had thatexperience, I went to greenville
, um, south carolina, orgreenville triumph, with joe
(07:40):
erwin, the ownership group, andum was able to kind of get a
sporting director job and a headcoaching there, built that club
up from the ground up and sobeing able to do that there's a
lot of pitfalls there.
You learn along the way yourown mistakes that you make.
It is about finding yourselfand finding your way.
(08:04):
That's your journey throughthat process.
You learn a lot Taking on theresponsibilities and not just
being a manager of people, butyou're also a sporting director,
so you're doing the budgets andthe business side of it and so
you have a differentresponsibility to the club in
that way too, and and that'sthat's really critical, I think,
(08:25):
for a lot of guys to havesuccess you know a lot of women
coaches as well and you know nowthe game's grown tremendously
and we have the NWSL and thewomen's side, we have the NWSL
and the women's side, we havethe Super League, the W League
for the women's side and themen's side and there's so many
opportunities for great coachesto come through and learn the
game and former players to stayinvolved in the game, and I love
(08:47):
that.
So, yeah, that's been a littlebit of my coaching journey Not
done, not even close to done andcoaching now at home with
McLean, where my daughters grewup.
In this club, my wife was asoccer executive and a coach
herself for 10 years and playingyouth soccer, and I'm a
(09:08):
technical director now becauseof the people that I love
working with in there.
They're awesome.
You know, louise Waxler hasbeen in the game for a very long
time on the women's side andshe's grown the game for both
men and women so many platformsover the year.
She's our executive directorand yeah.
I mean you give back to the gamein different ways.
(09:30):
I came home because of healthand my family my mom has
Parkinson's and my mother-in-lawhas Alzheimer's, and so we kind
of hit over the last two years,two and a half years, and it's
been that cognitive decline andso I'm back home to kind of help
my family, my wife andeverybody else take care of that
, because family first, you know, critical, but they're all in
(09:50):
good spaces now, which we'redoing well, and I've kind of got
the competitive edge again andthe itch to get back out there.
So we'll see.
We'll see what happens next.
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Well, talk about from your experience and I mean
you've been around the game onmultiple levels and the highest
levels of the game and thencoaching.
Talk about like people want toknow where does USL sit, like
how you know, yeah, it'sdivision two in the championship
(10:22):
and three in league one, butyou know you've got players that
are moving up and down betweenthe different levels.
You've got US open cup whereyou get to see the different
levels compete against eachother, and there's definitely
some, some teams that that makedeep runs that you're not
looking at.
You know it's kind of like theI always for anybody.
I'm trying to explain it to.
(10:43):
It's almost like the NCAAtournament, where you get those
Cinderella runs, um, and you getyeah yeah, yeah, the power
schools and all that kind ofstuff.
But then you get some reallytalented players in some of
these smaller schools that youknow and if they play as a team,
good coaching, you know theright matchups, anybody on their
given day, all those types ofstories, but it's drawn out over
(11:06):
the year instead of three weekslike the tournament.
Anyway, talk about the level ofUSL and how the growth of the
game has allowed those platformsto flourish.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, I think it was definitely needed, wes, in order
for us to gain respect aroundthe world.
It was like we need tostrengthen the pyramid structure
in our country and that is theDivision I, division II,
Division III and so on, both onthe men and the women.
And so I think the USL givesthose opportunities to grow the
(11:42):
game in the right way and tostrengthen her development
pathways.
Without a doubt and you'reseeing, like you said, there's a
lot of players that perhaps getdrafted into the NWSL or Major
major league soccer that youknow, maybe they're not ready
for at that particular time.
(12:02):
So they need a place to play,they need a place to grow and
and to mature and to fine-tunetheir game, and united soccer
leagues provide that at thechampionship level and usl
league one which started in 2019.
And, if you think about it, Igot flown home, probably like
seven, eight years ago, home, Isay back to Sheffield, to go to
(12:24):
a big anniversary dinner.
And I said, yeah, by the way,what is it?
And they're like, oh, our 150thyear anniversary.
I'm like, oh, okay, just alittle bit.
You guys have been around for alittle bit.
You know a hot second and uh so.
So it kind of keeps things inperspective of like how young we
are as a nation with the gameand how far we have to go.
(12:45):
Still, like this united soccerleague, um, what it provides is
that platform for the, theplayer that is coming out of the
high school or college level orhad gone overseas or had gone
to MLS or had gone to the NWSLand now they want to play in the
W Leagues or the USL or theSuper Leagues and things like
(13:07):
that, and so it gives them thatplatform and it allows them to
compete and grow and to me thatis phenomenal.
And now, like you said youmentioned it with the Open Cup,
some of the late runs and Iremember supporting Mark Briggs
in Sacramento Republic when theywere going through to the final
and I'm like Phoenix has donewell, union Omaha, and they had
(13:29):
a great run.
So you want those to do welland succeed.
And it's not like you're bitter,like why can't it be our team
and our club?
It's more about like theoverall overarching.
You know, representatives ofthe game itself.
That's critical.
You know to be in thoseconversations.
And and now you have thejagermeister cup, you know,
(13:50):
which is huge in uslchampionships, going to play
against teams in the uh inleague one and then maybe
eventually we get pro rel.
Are we talking west about that?
maybe one day let's talk aboutit, sir, I I'm a big proponent
of it chris martin martinovichtalked to me about that too, you
(14:10):
know, a while back, and I'mlike, yeah, I think that's
something that would have theworld's eyes on us.
It'd be fantastic to see thathappen in our country.
It really would, and I thinkit's just a game changer,
without a doubt it is.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
It is, I really do.
I do think it will happen.
I don't know if it'll be anytime in the near future, but I
do think it will happen.
I think you know, and it's nosecret, it's been out there, the
usl has been uh talking aboutit as a test, uh, proof of
concept, you know, within itsown ecosystem, um, which could
(14:49):
be a really interesting prospectas well, because, uh, they have
the ecosystem at the multipletiers to do it.
Uh, and MLS does?
They skip the second tier, butthey've got it in with MLS next
row and then obviously tier one.
But I think to your point,we're still so young, we're
still so young.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
We are young and we have to take these leaps of
faith.
We have to take these risks tostart leagues and people are
like, oh, a league comes up andthen it fails and it comes back
up and then this one starts overhere and there's too many
leagues in this country and thatmay be true, but we're still
the wild wild west and we'retrying to find ourselves, and
that's okay.
(15:29):
I think part of it.
You know that structure.
When you think back to the hey,I'm leaving West Ham United in
London, just had our first child, cindy, and I.
Our son, ian, was born in Derbyand then I moved to West Ham to
be on loan with them and thenall of a sudden we talked about
(15:51):
coming back home.
And I'm having conversationswith Tab Ramos and he's like
Artsy, I'm thinking about goingback to Major League Soccer.
I said I didn't even think theleague was starting yet and he's
like, yeah, I know.
And then, you know, here we are.
We just played in 94 World Cupin our own country and now I'm
competing in the Copa Americaand Uruguay in 95.
(16:11):
And we don't.
There was a league supposed tostart in 95 and then it got
postponed and then it mightstart in 96, and so these are
all leaps of faith, and whowould have known that we'd come
back in dc united would be theclub that it was, and you know
and compete and win, you know,five trophies in the first three
years, like both domestic andinternational, and it's.
(16:34):
You don't know these things,but you have to take some risks
sometimes to make things happen,and that's the same with the
USL.
The USL is look, I mean,there's challenges.
Without a doubt, we need moreclubs, and certainly USL League
One, the third division, isgrowing and growing, and who
(16:55):
would have thought this leaguewould start in 2019 and then
2020 would be COVID?
Would you restrict, shut downeverything, and clubs would be
like, oh, I don't need, I can'tafford this anymore.
You know, but they survived anda lot of clubs are still
continuing on and pushing thegame, and you're seeing the
growth in the championship aswell.
(17:22):
No-transcript, um, so you know,in the Santa Barbers of the
world and everything else.
So you're like let's go, keepdoing it.
These are, these are the thingsthat we need in our country.
We need to work towardssomething, a goal, and that
mission statement is more aboutlet's serve the community with a
great club, and it doesn'tmatter if you're an MLS or not.
(17:43):
Like you're.
You're doing something that,even from an investor standpoint
, sure.
Is it making you tons of money?
Probably not.
Is the valuation of your clubgoing up?
Absolutely without a doubt?
And so you're preparing for thefuture, right, you're managing
that and you're building that,and it truly has to be a
(18:03):
community club.
If you're not doing it for thatreason, then you're doing it
for the wrong reason.
So you're going to struggle acommunity club.
If you're not doing it for thatreason, then you're doing it
for the whole reason.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
So you know, you're gonna struggle a lot, you know,
yeah, well, I'm glad you broughtthat up because you know we, we
talk about it and everythingthat we do.
The community is at the, at thecenter of it and, with them in
mind and this is their club,we're just the stewards, um, but
you, you've lived it, you,you've been there, done it both
as a player, a coach, um, youknow, executive in the media.
(18:32):
Talk about what in particular.
I think it'd be great, uh, foryour from your experience within
the usl in particular, becauseI think that those clubs are
truly just, you know, almostlike the, the old school UK,
grassroots, the way that itstill is over there, in a lot of
ways, very grassroots, justembedded in their community
(18:54):
every day, beyond just the games.
Talk about your experiencethere and what those clubs mean
to their communities and thecommunities to the team.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
You mean in the UK or here or everywhere.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Here in the USL oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I mean because community engagement is critical
to the growth of your club andalso for you to be relevant.
You know, when you show youcare I mean this is what I say
to each of my coaching staffevery single year.
Every time I have a coachingstaff, whether it be pro or even
the youth game or whatever,it's just like do not be afraid
(19:31):
to show them that you care.
And that's critical.
Um, you know, because everybodysays it different ways like oh,
the trust to buy in all thatstuff, it is inclusivity.
You're you're letting them knowthat they are part of your
journey too.
They matter to you.
And every fan that asks for anautograph, don't you dare shake
(19:52):
them off or ignore them, becausethe day that they stop asking
for it is when you're in trouble.
That's critical, and so you know, it's a lifestyle, it's a you
know, it's a cultural thing thatthere's only a few people that
really get it.
They say it sometimes, but ityou have to make sure that
(20:15):
you're taking care of the peoplethat are coming to your games.
It's, it's really important,because then you share the love
and you also share, you know,and the highs that come in the
game and those successes, butyou also share the losses and
you share together through thegrowing pains and that adversity
.
That's there too, and when youdo that with more people, that's
(20:38):
when you get through.
That truly is growth.
So that becomes your foundation.
And when you're all in ittogether and wow it's, you can't
fail, can't.
Yeah, that's the best part andyou give them value.
they are important you know,fans are reported, people that
(20:59):
work on volunteer game dayoperations are important.
Kids that are coming to you andthat want to be future coaches
or referees and they're askingyou if they can come to training
sessions and stand on thesideline.
Absolutely, yeah, that'simportant, you know.
Those type of communityengagements are critical, you
know, uh, being a mentor andgiving back and and growing,
(21:21):
helping somebody else grow ifthat's part of your journey,
that's what you should be doingon earth, you know, and so if
you do it, soccer it's the bestthing in the world.
It's like wow thank you, god.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, exactly, finding finding that avenue to
make the world a better placethrough soccer is yeah one of
the cool, one of the coolest, um, you know, coming together of
purpose and passion, um, that atleast I've been able been super
fortunate to be able toexperience.
So but I love that, thatapproach and that take.
(21:52):
I mean I think we'll we'll endon this what for?
For one of the cool thingsabout Northwest Arkansas and
Arkansas as a state is and it'szero disrespect to the double
ball clubs that are here inbaseball, with all due respect,
we're going to be a differentproduct than first kind of real
(22:13):
professional sports team inArkansas and it's going to be
with soccer on men's and women's.
Yes, that's exciting.
Why should?
If you're a Northwest Arkansasresident right now, from your
lens and your experiences, whatcan they expect?
Why should they be excitedabout this?
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Wow.
Well, the number one thing isbecause it's a positive
influence.
It's something that's beingdone for positive change within
your community, within yourlocal town, within your state.
It's a go-to experience and ifyou do it right and you build
(22:58):
the club the right way, thatgame day experience wow, that
lasts forever.
And the families come together.
And it's about the familiescome together and you know it's
about, it's about the families.
You know it's about thatexperience that they they find
when they go there and they'reproud to put on your scarf and
they're proud to wear yourjersey.
And you know, through thelosses and through the wins,
(23:22):
they support your club.
You know, thick and thin,because you're transparent,
you're an honest club and, uh,you roll up your sleeves and you
have great work ethic andthat's why people want to come
see you, they want to supportyou, right, that's.
That's the beautiful thing.
That's what we all work forbeautiful game.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I love it well john thank you so much again, man,
for joining me for this episodeof pitch to pro.
We hope you guys enjoyed it.
Be sure to catch all of ourepisodes on pitch to procom.
Look for Pitch to Pro onYouTube, spotify, apple or
wherever you get your podcastscontent.
Until next time, cheers,northwest Arkansas.
Thank you.
Thanks for joining us on thisepisode of the Pitch to Pro
(24:02):
podcast.
Be sure to tune in again in twoweeks for the next installment
and check out the Stoppage Timeseries for a recap of today's
episode.
Be sure to find us at Pitch toPro on YouTube, instagram and
everywhere you get your podcasts.
Until next time, northwestArkansas cheers.
Pitch to Pro is the official podcast of Ozark United
FC.
This will be our platform totell our story about the club
and the special place that wecall home, northwest Arkansas.
This is a journey we want tobring you along for the ride.
We'll share what's going onbehind the curtain, help educate
the community at large aboutsoccer, our league, and give
(00:25):
updates on the progress of theclub along the way.
Together, we'll explore andunpack our journey to
professional soccer, the magicthat is NWA, our community, and
talk all things soccer from onthe pitch to behind the scenes,
telling the story of our club.
Pitch to Pro Podcast is proudlysponsored by PodcastVideoscom.
(00:46):
Podcastvideoscom is NorthwestArkansas' premier podcast
recording studio, equipped withindustry-leading equipment.
The recording studio andservices save you time, money
and hassle.
They are dedicated to helpingyou create, record and publish
high-quality podcasts for youraudience.
Be sure to check them out todayat podcastvideoscom.
(01:07):
Hello everybody and welcomeback to the Pitch to Pro podcast
.
I am your host, wes Harris,managing Director for Ozark
United FC, northwest Arkansas'professional soccer club,
playing in the United SoccerLeague.
I am back for round two with USsoccer legend Mr John Harkes,
technical director now forMcLean Youth Soccer, among Jack
(01:29):
of All Trades as well.
But, john, welcome back andthank you for joining me again
on Pitch to Pro man.
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Wow, my pleasure.
Wes.
Thanks for having me on.
You know it's a part of a longline of you know it's hard to
get on your show.
You know you keep closing thedoor and I'll be glad you opened
it today.
It was just great.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
That's awesome.
Well, last time, for those thatmissed it, we talked about
John's illustrious playingcareer, path to path to pro, and
just what the game means to somany different people in
different communities and partsof the world.
And today, john, we talked alot about how you found the game
and your experience as a playeron multiple platforms.
(02:11):
Today, I'd like to talk abouthow you transitioned out from
your professional career and howyou found yourself and kind of
your path to coaching, to startat least, and then we'll see
where it goes from there.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, it's a great question because you know I I
kind of had was I don't know.
I was very lucky to, you know,fortunate to to work in media as
well.
You know, I did the first umMLS kind of highlight show that
was sort of like match of theday program called MLS rap, you
(02:45):
know, with Fox TV as soon as Iretired and I kind of got thrown
into that really quickly and Iwas working out in California
and traveling back on weekendsand red eyes and but I was
coaching my kids in the youthclub at that time.
So it was a lot and I lovedcoaching, you know.
But talking about the game hasalways been fun for me, um, and
(03:07):
and it brought me, you know,great platforms, you know, and
really some great experiencesand moments and people that I
got to work with and call gameswith.
You know Ian Dark, you know JPDe La Camera, like all of these.
You know Martin Tyler.
You know I got to work withmartin in the last world cup,
you know, which was amazing andhe and I were partners and so
(03:29):
that stuff, you know, coveringthe game that way is is fun, but
the coaching aspect for me hasalways been the most rewarding
and it's the most humbling, uh,that you can work hard to create
opportunities for other peopleto love the game and you can
find ways to help them throughall their adversity, their up
(03:51):
and downs, and still find a waythat maybe they create a pathway
for themselves.
There is opportunity there.
I think that's the criticalpart, my coaching aspects.
My dad was a coach and I alwayslearned a lot from him and
always wanted to be a coach andteaching the game.
(04:13):
And coaches become the bestcoaches they can be when they
remove the ego and they knowthat they're serving others.
And that's the hard challengefor a lot of coaches.
And it's a hard challenge for alot of coaches and it's a hard
challenge for a lot of formerplayers because it's a
completely different approachand it's a completely different
platform than what they wereused to.
So you know, I've learned froma lot of great coaches and
(04:40):
studied the game tremendously,went and researched it overseas
as well.
When I retired, I went andworked with louis van gaal, uh,
who was coaching at the time ataz akmar.
I went to danny blind at ix andI I coached and watched under
him for a while at frankreichardt when he was at
barcelona back in the day, um,and I thought, yeah, I want to
(05:02):
pursue this for sure.
And so I did that, you know, onmy own.
It wasn't like I was part of aprogram.
I did the coaching educationlicenses early when I first
retired as a player, and back in2003.
And I got my A license in 2005.
Two years later, they made youwait, which was great.
They made you wait, which wasgreat.
(05:23):
So I felt like, you know, Ijust no matter where the game
took me.
You know I love coaching and so, whether it was a youth club,
you know, and coaching andgiving back to the kids in the
community or, you know, findingthat level of college or pro,
(05:51):
and, yeah, so I guess, my firstreal pro.
Well, I coached for theunder-20 national team in
Holland in the Youth World Cupwith Ziggy Schmidt, you know,
god rest his soul.
A fantastic person and what agreat coach, what a great
manager.
I learned so much from him andfrom there it just took off.
You know I would coach new york,rimbles and mls and bruce arena
, um, legendary coach and uh youknow, friend and mentor, you
(06:11):
know for sure, took me on a uvato coach me at the national team
, coach me dc united.
So a lot of not just winninggames but a lot of really good
experiences there and uh, and itjust grew from there, you know.
And then, the more that I wascoaching as an assistant at mls
um, you know bruce and and davesarakin and bob bradley coaches
(06:35):
like that that I've been able to, you know, manage with and even
coaches overseas.
You know, every red nap at westhill um, ron, I can see my
first coach at SheffieldWednesday they were all telling
me like, if you go into coaching, you've got to go down.
You got to, you know.
You got to be able to be a headcoach yourself and you got to
(06:55):
suffer.
You got to be able to coachwith a frugal budget and you've
got to be able to identifyplayers and put that together
and negotiate fees.
And so the USL was anincredible platform to do that
and I was given an opportunityat Jake Edwards.
He said that FC Cincinnati waslooking to get into the USL
(07:17):
championship back in 2015 and2016.
So I was able to get that joband we finished third in our
first year got to playoffs andcreated a great fan base there
and the club marketed so welland they had a strategic plan in
place, um.
And then, after I had thatexperience, I went to greenville
, um, south carolina, orgreenville triumph, with joe
(07:40):
erwin, the ownership group, andum was able to kind of get a
sporting director job and a headcoaching there, built that club
up from the ground up and sobeing able to do that there's a
lot of pitfalls there.
You learn along the way yourown mistakes that you make.
It is about finding yourselfand finding your way.
(08:04):
That's your journey throughthat process.
You learn a lot Taking on theresponsibilities and not just
being a manager of people, butyou're also a sporting director,
so you're doing the budgets andthe business side of it and so
you have a differentresponsibility to the club in
that way too, and and that'sthat's really critical, I think,
(08:25):
for a lot of guys to havesuccess you know a lot of women
coaches as well and you know nowthe game's grown tremendously
and we have the NWSL and thewomen's side, we have the NWSL
and the women's side, we havethe Super League, the W League
for the women's side and themen's side and there's so many
opportunities for great coachesto come through and learn the
game and former players to stayinvolved in the game, and I love
(08:47):
that.
So, yeah, that's been a littlebit of my coaching journey Not
done, not even close to done andcoaching now at home with
McLean, where my daughters grewup.
In this club, my wife was asoccer executive and a coach
herself for 10 years and playingyouth soccer, and I'm a
(09:08):
technical director now becauseof the people that I love
working with in there.
They're awesome.
You know, louise Waxler hasbeen in the game for a very long
time on the women's side andshe's grown the game for both
men and women so many platformsover the year.
She's our executive directorand yeah.
I mean you give back to the gamein different ways.
(09:30):
I came home because of healthand my family my mom has
Parkinson's and my mother-in-lawhas Alzheimer's, and so we kind
of hit over the last two years,two and a half years, and it's
been that cognitive decline andso I'm back home to kind of help
my family, my wife andeverybody else take care of that
, because family first, you know, critical, but they're all in
(09:50):
good spaces now, which we'redoing well, and I've kind of got
the competitive edge again andthe itch to get back out there.
So we'll see.
We'll see what happens next.
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Well, talk about from your experience and I mean
you've been around the game onmultiple levels and the highest
levels of the game and thencoaching.
Talk about like people want toknow where does USL sit, like
how you know, yeah, it'sdivision two in the championship
(10:22):
and three in league one, butyou know you've got players that
are moving up and down betweenthe different levels.
You've got US open cup whereyou get to see the different
levels compete against eachother, and there's definitely
some, some teams that that makedeep runs that you're not
looking at.
You know it's kind of like theI always for anybody.
I'm trying to explain it to.
(10:43):
It's almost like the NCAAtournament, where you get those
Cinderella runs, um, and you getyeah yeah, yeah, the power
schools and all that kind ofstuff.
But then you get some reallytalented players in some of
these smaller schools that youknow and if they play as a team,
good coaching, you know theright matchups, anybody on their
given day, all those types ofstories, but it's drawn out over
(11:06):
the year instead of three weekslike the tournament.
Anyway, talk about the level ofUSL and how the growth of the
game has allowed those platformsto flourish.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, I think it was definitely needed, wes, in order
for us to gain respect aroundthe world.
It was like we need tostrengthen the pyramid structure
in our country and that is theDivision I, division II,
Division III and so on, both onthe men and the women.
And so I think the USL givesthose opportunities to grow the
(11:42):
game in the right way and tostrengthen her development
pathways.
Without a doubt and you'reseeing, like you said, there's a
lot of players that perhaps getdrafted into the NWSL or Major
major league soccer that youknow, maybe they're not ready
for at that particular time.
(12:02):
So they need a place to play,they need a place to grow and
and to mature and to fine-tunetheir game, and united soccer
leagues provide that at thechampionship level and usl
league one which started in 2019.
And, if you think about it, Igot flown home, probably like
seven, eight years ago, home, Isay back to Sheffield, to go to
(12:24):
a big anniversary dinner.
And I said, yeah, by the way,what is it?
And they're like, oh, our 150thyear anniversary.
I'm like, oh, okay, just alittle bit.
You guys have been around for alittle bit.
You know a hot second and uh so.
So it kind of keeps things inperspective of like how young we
are as a nation with the gameand how far we have to go.
(12:45):
Still, like this united soccerleague, um, what it provides is
that platform for the, theplayer that is coming out of the
high school or college level orhad gone overseas or had gone
to MLS or had gone to the NWSLand now they want to play in the
W Leagues or the USL or theSuper Leagues and things like
(13:07):
that, and so it gives them thatplatform and it allows them to
compete and grow and to me thatis phenomenal.
And now, like you said youmentioned it with the Open Cup,
some of the late runs and Iremember supporting Mark Briggs
in Sacramento Republic when theywere going through to the final
and I'm like Phoenix has donewell, union Omaha, and they had
(13:29):
a great run.
So you want those to do welland succeed.
And it's not like you're bitter,like why can't it be our team
and our club?
It's more about like theoverall overarching.
You know, representatives ofthe game itself.
That's critical.
You know to be in thoseconversations.
And and now you have thejagermeister cup, you know,
(13:50):
which is huge in uslchampionships, going to play
against teams in the uh inleague one and then maybe
eventually we get pro rel.
Are we talking west about that?
maybe one day let's talk aboutit, sir, I I'm a big proponent
of it chris martin martinovichtalked to me about that too, you
(14:10):
know, a while back, and I'mlike, yeah, I think that's
something that would have theworld's eyes on us.
It'd be fantastic to see thathappen in our country.
It really would, and I thinkit's just a game changer,
without a doubt it is.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
It is, I really do.
I do think it will happen.
I don't know if it'll be anytime in the near future, but I
do think it will happen.
I think you know, and it's nosecret, it's been out there, the
usl has been uh talking aboutit as a test, uh, proof of
concept, you know, within itsown ecosystem, um, which could
(14:49):
be a really interesting prospectas well, because, uh, they have
the ecosystem at the multipletiers to do it.
Uh, and MLS does?
They skip the second tier, butthey've got it in with MLS next
row and then obviously tier one.
But I think to your point,we're still so young, we're
still so young.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
We are young and we have to take these leaps of
faith.
We have to take these risks tostart leagues and people are
like, oh, a league comes up andthen it fails and it comes back
up and then this one starts overhere and there's too many
leagues in this country and thatmay be true, but we're still
the wild wild west and we'retrying to find ourselves, and
that's okay.
(15:29):
I think part of it.
You know that structure.
When you think back to the hey,I'm leaving West Ham United in
London, just had our first child, cindy, and I.
Our son, ian, was born in Derbyand then I moved to West Ham to
be on loan with them and thenall of a sudden we talked about
(15:51):
coming back home.
And I'm having conversationswith Tab Ramos and he's like
Artsy, I'm thinking about goingback to Major League Soccer.
I said I didn't even think theleague was starting yet and he's
like, yeah, I know.
And then, you know, here we are.
We just played in 94 World Cupin our own country and now I'm
competing in the Copa Americaand Uruguay in 95.
(16:11):
And we don't.
There was a league supposed tostart in 95 and then it got
postponed and then it mightstart in 96, and so these are
all leaps of faith, and whowould have known that we'd come
back in dc united would be theclub that it was, and you know
and compete and win, you know,five trophies in the first three
years, like both domestic andinternational, and it's.
(16:34):
You don't know these things,but you have to take some risks
sometimes to make things happen,and that's the same with the
USL.
The USL is look, I mean,there's challenges.
Without a doubt, we need moreclubs, and certainly USL League
One, the third division, isgrowing and growing, and who
(16:55):
would have thought this leaguewould start in 2019 and then
2020 would be COVID?
Would you restrict, shut downeverything, and clubs would be
like, oh, I don't need, I can'tafford this anymore.
You know, but they survived anda lot of clubs are still
continuing on and pushing thegame, and you're seeing the
growth in the championship aswell.
(17:22):
No-transcript, um, so you know,in the Santa Barbers of the
world and everything else.
So you're like let's go, keepdoing it.
These are, these are the thingsthat we need in our country.
We need to work towardssomething, a goal, and that
mission statement is more aboutlet's serve the community with a
great club, and it doesn'tmatter if you're an MLS or not.
(17:43):
Like you're.
You're doing something that,even from an investor standpoint
, sure.
Is it making you tons of money?
Probably not.
Is the valuation of your clubgoing up?
Absolutely without a doubt?
And so you're preparing for thefuture, right, you're managing
that and you're building that,and it truly has to be a
(18:03):
community club.
If you're not doing it for thatreason, then you're doing it
for the wrong reason.
So you're going to struggle acommunity club.
If you're not doing it for thatreason, then you're doing it
for the whole reason.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
So you know, you're gonna struggle a lot, you know,
yeah, well, I'm glad you broughtthat up because you know we, we
talk about it and everythingthat we do.
The community is at the, at thecenter of it and, with them in
mind and this is their club,we're just the stewards, um, but
you, you've lived it, you,you've been there, done it both
as a player, a coach, um, youknow, executive in the media.
(18:32):
Talk about what in particular.
I think it'd be great, uh, foryour from your experience within
the usl in particular, becauseI think that those clubs are
truly just, you know, almostlike the, the old school UK,
grassroots, the way that itstill is over there, in a lot of
ways, very grassroots, justembedded in their community
(18:54):
every day, beyond just the games.
Talk about your experiencethere and what those clubs mean
to their communities and thecommunities to the team.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
You mean in the UK or here or everywhere.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Here in the USL oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I mean because community engagement is critical
to the growth of your club andalso for you to be relevant.
You know, when you show youcare I mean this is what I say
to each of my coaching staffevery single year.
Every time I have a coachingstaff, whether it be pro or even
the youth game or whatever,it's just like do not be afraid
(19:31):
to show them that you care.
And that's critical.
Um, you know, because everybodysays it different ways like oh,
the trust to buy in all thatstuff, it is inclusivity.
You're you're letting them knowthat they are part of your
journey too.
They matter to you.
And every fan that asks for anautograph, don't you dare shake
(19:52):
them off or ignore them, becausethe day that they stop asking
for it is when you're in trouble.
That's critical, and so you know, it's a lifestyle, it's a you
know, it's a cultural thing thatthere's only a few people that
really get it.
They say it sometimes, but ityou have to make sure that
(20:15):
you're taking care of the peoplethat are coming to your games.
It's, it's really important,because then you share the love
and you also share, you know,and the highs that come in the
game and those successes, butyou also share the losses and
you share together through thegrowing pains and that adversity
.
That's there too, and when youdo that with more people, that's
(20:38):
when you get through.
That truly is growth.
So that becomes your foundation.
And when you're all in ittogether and wow it's, you can't
fail, can't.
Yeah, that's the best part andyou give them value.
they are important you know,fans are reported, people that
(20:59):
work on volunteer game dayoperations are important.
Kids that are coming to you andthat want to be future coaches
or referees and they're askingyou if they can come to training
sessions and stand on thesideline.
Absolutely, yeah, that'simportant, you know.
Those type of communityengagements are critical, you
know, uh, being a mentor andgiving back and and growing,
(21:21):
helping somebody else grow ifthat's part of your journey,
that's what you should be doingon earth, you know, and so if
you do it, soccer it's the bestthing in the world.
It's like wow thank you, god.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, exactly, finding finding that avenue to
make the world a better placethrough soccer is yeah one of
the cool, one of the coolest, um, you know, coming together of
purpose and passion, um, that atleast I've been able been super
fortunate to be able toexperience.
So but I love that, thatapproach and that take.
(21:52):
I mean I think we'll we'll endon this what for?
For one of the cool thingsabout Northwest Arkansas and
Arkansas as a state is and it'szero disrespect to the double
ball clubs that are here inbaseball, with all due respect,
we're going to be a differentproduct than first kind of real
(22:13):
professional sports team inArkansas and it's going to be
with soccer on men's and women's.
Yes, that's exciting.
Why should?
If you're a Northwest Arkansasresident right now, from your
lens and your experiences, whatcan they expect?
Why should they be excitedabout this?
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Wow.
Well, the number one thing isbecause it's a positive
influence.
It's something that's beingdone for positive change within
your community, within yourlocal town, within your state.
It's a go-to experience and ifyou do it right and you build
(22:58):
the club the right way, thatgame day experience wow, that
lasts forever.
And the families come together.
And it's about the familiescome together and you know it's
about, it's about the families.
You know it's about thatexperience that they they find
when they go there and they'reproud to put on your scarf and
they're proud to wear yourjersey.
And you know, through thelosses and through the wins,
(23:22):
they support your club.
You know, thick and thin,because you're transparent,
you're an honest club and, uh,you roll up your sleeves and you
have great work ethic andthat's why people want to come
see you, they want to supportyou, right, that's.
That's the beautiful thing.
That's what we all work forbeautiful game.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I love it well john thank you so much again, man,
for joining me for this episodeof pitch to pro.
We hope you guys enjoyed it.
Be sure to catch all of ourepisodes on pitch to procom.
Look for Pitch to Pro onYouTube, spotify, apple or
wherever you get your podcastscontent.
Until next time, cheers,northwest Arkansas.
Thank you.
Thanks for joining us on thisepisode of the Pitch to Pro
(24:02):
podcast.
Be sure to tune in again in twoweeks for the next installment
and check out the Stoppage Timeseries for a recap of today's
episode.
Be sure to find us at Pitch toPro on YouTube, instagram and
everywhere you get your podcasts.
Until next time, northwestArkansas cheers.
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