December 15, 2023 • 36 mins
The gut is the gateway to health. Join Josh Dech as he reveals the secrets to harnessing your gut's power to boost immunity, elevate mood, and live your best life.
Have you been struggling with gut issues but can’t seem to get to the root cause?
You may be relying too heavily on medication to mask your symptoms instead of addressing the underlying problem.
In this episode, holistic nutritionist Josh Dech shares how he helps patients reverse chronic gut diseases like Crohn’s and colitis through lifestyle and diet changes.
By the end, you’ll discover:
- Why our gut health influences our overall health and wellbeing.
- The connection between gut health and brain health.
- Simple lifestyle changes you can make to improve your gut health.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Tamar (00:00):
Have you, or perhaps your patients, been struggling
with gut issues but can't seemto get to the root cause?
They may be relying too heavilyon medications to mask their
symptoms instead of addressingunderlying problems.
Our DNA may seem like theultimate puppet master,
controlling everything from ourphysical traits to health
susceptibilities.
But guess what, my friends?
(00:21):
Your gut bacteria can rewriteyour health story.
So grab your cuppa, cozy up andjoin us for this eye-opening
episode.
As we chat with holisticnutritionist Josh Dech, who
helps patients reverse chronicgut diseases like Crohn's and
Colitis through lifestyle anddiet changes, we're ready to
learn how DNA isn't the onlyplayer on the field of
(00:42):
well-being.
Welcome to Pivoting Pharmacywith Nutrigenomics.
Part of the Pharmacy PodcastNetwork, a must-have resource
for pharmacist entrepreneursseeking to enhance patient care
while enjoying career and life.
Join us as we pivot intoNutrigenomics, using pharmacy
and nutrition for truepatient-focused care.
(01:04):
Explore how to improve chronicconditions rather than just
manage them.
Celebrate entrepreneurialtriumphs and receive priceless
advice.
Join your values with a careerthat profoundly impacts patients
.
Together, we'll raise thescript on health and pivot into
a brighter future.
Before you listen in, I want tothank our listener of the week,
(01:27):
who said thank you tomorrow formaking Nutrigenomics easy to
understand.
You are very much welcome,because if you find it easy to
understand, then I know I'mdoing something right.
Thank you for your review andremember, when you leave us a
five-star review, you'll get thechance to be featured as our
next listener of the week andI'll give you a shout out right
here on the show.
(01:49):
Hello, hello and welcome toepisode 15 of Pivoting Pharmacy
with Nutrigenomics.
I'm Dr Laufel, your doctor ofpharmacy and certified
nutritional genomic specialist.
Today's episode, we're talkingabout why your DNA doesn't
matter.
Yeah, I know it seems wrong.
Right, because we're a podcastthat's talking about
Nutrigenomics and DNA and how itdoes matter.
(02:11):
But hear me out.
We're going to talk with JoshDech, who's going to tell us why
gut bacteria matters, more sothan DNA, and, as bold as it
sounds, it's wrapping up layersof illuminated truths on our
path to healthier lives.
Over the years, we havediscovered that there's more to
our health than previouslythought.
Right, we can make changes inour eating habits, change how we
(02:34):
sleep, stress at work or home.
All these elements weave intothe fabric of our well-being and
we know that the significantplayer involved all this is deep
in ourselves, which is our DNA,because it's like a scaffold of
our being influencingeverything from our hair color
and eye color right down to ourpredisposition to health issues,
even factors affecting ourdigestive health, our gut health
(02:57):
.
They're coded deep within thegene sequences.
But here's a twist your DNAdoes not have to define you, it
does not have to limit you, andthat's why joining us today is
our good friend, josh Dech, aformer paramedic turned holistic
nutritionist specializing ingut health.
Given his tremendous success inhelping clients overcome complex
digestive diseases usingholistic approaches, conscious
(03:20):
nutrition and soliddetermination, I know he's got a
wealth of insights to share.
Together, we're about to plungeinto the world of gut health,
exploring why your DNA doesn'tmatter, but your gut bacteria
does.
So let's listen in, josh.
Welcome, welcome.
Thanks for joining me onPivoting Pharmacy with
Nutrigenomics.
Now you've made an interestingtransition from being a
(03:42):
paramedic to a holisticnutritionist.
Could you share a definingmoment that triggered this
transformation?
Josh Dech (03:48):
It's interesting because there are actually two
defining moments, like skippingstones from one to the next.
So I used to be a paramedic andI realized pretty quickly it
was sick care, not health care.
You pick up the same peopleover and over, week after week.
You take them to the hospital.
You start to know your patientswhen you see them over and over
and I pick them up for whateverissue it was a heart issue, or
it was a respiratory issue, ormy favorite is generally unwell
(04:11):
and then we take them to thehospital and they either get an
update on prescription, they getbigger dose of their
prescriptions, or they get senthome told they're fine, right,
and nobody was figuring out whythese people were sick.
And so I ended up leaving mycareer within a year or two and
I started personal trainingfull-time.
It's something I've beenpassionate about for years and
I've met with this woman namedLynn.
She was 57 years old when shecame to see me and she was on 17
(04:35):
pills and insulin for breakfast, nine pills and insulin with
bedtime.
She had a CPAP machine, highblood pressure, borderline CHF.
She was on the disability listat work, so you name it Clearly
her life was very steadilydeclining and, as a pharmacist,
you know her future is moreprescriptions and then more
prescriptions to battle thecontraindications or the
complications of thoseprescriptions Exactly.
(04:57):
And so we started working withher, went into the gut and
nutrition and movement andexercise.
Within two years she was offall but two medications,
strictly because she had a ruleon why surgery.
So they pulled 76% and she hada medication for that.
But she was off all hermedications but two H59, she
broke her first world record asa weightlifter in the raw power
lifting division.
Dr. Tamar (05:16):
Awesome.
Josh Dech (05:18):
Oh, it was amazing and that started this whole
journey.
And then I got into nutritionmore and more and I got deeper
and realized every case that Iwould see whether it was PCOS or
just severe PMS, asthma,anxiety, depression, eczema,
diabetes it always came back tothe gut and so I started diving
in and I got closer and closerand then the worst and the worst
(05:38):
gut cases.
I began seeing severe IBS.
I ended up specializing in IBD,so I see a lot of Crohn's and
Colitis as my specialty and weare successfully reversing many,
many cases.
About 90% 95% who come to seeme are between 50% to 100%
reversed within the first 90days, regardless of whether
they've been at it for a year,15, 16 years.
(06:00):
They can all be reversed andthat's sort of what led me to
where I am today.
Dr. Tamar (06:04):
Wow, that is amazing.
Josh, I definitely resonatewith you when you talked about
seeing the same patients in thatambulance for the same issues
and then when you see them againnow there are more medications
than they were before, theirsituation is more complex and
complicated, and it was the samething that set me on the path
to where I am today, seeingthose frequent flyers I call
(06:26):
them in the hospital alwayscoming back within two weeks, 30
days, whatever it is, they'recoming back and they're not
getting any better.
So I definitely resonate withyou and that success that your
patients have had with justmaking those changes in their
lives and addressing those gutissues that is absolutely
amazing.
I can't even I've never evendone a marathon.
Josh Dech (06:48):
You know what me either.
I hate cardio.
It's really hard to talk meinto doing any sort of cardio,
but it is amazing what the bodyis capable of.
We have these diseases like,again, ibd.
That's classically consideredby both the Crohn's Colitis
Foundation's the Mayo Clinic.
It's considered to beautoimmune or idiopathic.
But the reality is we have tolook at these diseases as sort
(07:12):
of a progressive wear and tear.
Medicine has spent 30, 40 yearsplus really trying to separate
IBS and IBD, to differentiatethese conditions, to determine
what sort of factors make themdifferent, why they're different
, how they onset, what thepathology is of these disease
processes and my work.
Now I'm actually blurring thelines again and saying nope,
we've gone too far.
We need to look at the diseasewear and tear.
(07:33):
Something as simple as like ifsomeone comes in picture, you
know, running a marathon, forexample is that if you put on a
brand new pair of shoes and youdid not wear socks and you went
for a run, what happens to yourheel?
It gets red, it gets a littleraw, it gets blistered, it
bleeds, and this is theprogression that I've actually
identified in the histories Itake with these IBD patients.
(07:55):
So they come in and it's a lotof the same stuff.
It's one of two things.
One it's a rapid onset due toan insult of some kind, be it
mycotoxin poisoning, be itantibiotic usage, something that
disrupted the biome, or it'sthis wear and tear process.
And so to say it's eithergenetic or idiopathic is insane,
and I'll tell you why.
(08:15):
Number one the USA is less than5% of the global population,
but these are numbers from 2019,63% of the world's cases of
IBDs concentrated in less than5%.
So if it's genetic, it's astatistical anomaly, and the
cases have risen from anywherefrom 1.5 to 3 million give or
(08:36):
take on the estimates in 1990 to7 million today.
So if it's idiopathic, webetter figure out pretty
freaking fast what's causingthis problem, because the
numbers are climbing like crazy,and that's my take on the gut.
Dr. Tamar (08:48):
Wow, that is phenomenal, those numbers.
And, as we talked earlier aboutthe genetic aspect of things,
yes, there are some aspects ofan individual's genetics that
can predispose them or make thema higher risk for developing
certain gut issues, but it's notthe end all be all.
There are some things incertain cases that can be done,
(09:09):
as you're mentioning right.
If it's idiopathic, wedefinitely have to find out what
it is.
Josh Dech (09:13):
Yeah, I mean, if we look at genes themselves,
genetics are fascinating becauseobviously a lot of them can
turn up and turn down, much likea dial, If you're into the work
by Dr Ben Lynch, like his bookDirty Genes, cleaning those
genes.
We talk about a lot of thisstuff and there are genes, of
course, that are associated withIBD or Crohn's, your NOD2s,
your inner leucans and I thinkit's IL23R, different things
(09:36):
that are associated.
But a lot of the stuff, evenSIBO, can be considered in some
cases as an autoimmune.
But that comes from, say, foodpoisoning, where there's actual
molecular mimicry.
Looking at these toxins thatcame in that look like enzymes
that your body already has.
That sets this molecularmimicry, autoimmunity, and so
those things can happen.
But in my experience to saythey're genetic, sure, you're
(09:58):
predisposed, but so is arthritis, so is Hashimoto's.
These are the weak links inyour genes that when you have
breakdown of your body's naturalprocesses or you express
inflammation, they will beexpressed via these modalities,
via asthma, via arthritis or gutissues.
It's just where in those breaksit happens to be expressed and
how quickly that disease processon sets.
Dr. Tamar (10:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
And it makes me think also whenyou mentioned the connection,
the extent to which the healthof the gut has on the rest of
our bodies, and I know for meallergies.
I have sense food sensitivitiesto so many different healthy
foods.
Healthy, they are very healthyfoods, but the struggle I had
(10:39):
with my health early on was howcan I get healthy if I can't
tolerate these healthy foods",and I eventually realized it had
to do with repair in my gut andonce I was able to do that, I
can now have these foods thatbefore I just couldn't tolerate
at all.
Josh Dech (10:54):
It's amazing how that happens.
The gut leaky gut was actuallycoined, we'll say discovered, by
Dr Lessio Fasano, and he has apaper out and it's called All
Diseases Begin in the Leaky Gut,and it's something how they had
the pretext of the subtextafter the title about the role
of zonulin-mediated leaky gut inthese inflammatory conditions.
And that's exactly it.
(11:15):
It's just leaks in your gutwhere macromolecules have passed
through, got to yourbloodstream.
Your body goes, hey, man, youshouldn't be here in chewed or
alert.
And now you have thesensitivity.
But these are often we measurethese IgGs and I'm sure you've
talked about this and, aspharmacists listening, you guys
know IgGs are these slow-onsetsand so they're really not that
accurate.
Your body produces IgGs toevery food, always anyways.
(11:37):
It's just a matter of howsevere the reaction is, how big
the leaks are.
There's so many differentfactors and it's important
absolutely to avoid those foods,just like you did, to not make
those leaks bigger.
But you avoided those, healedyour gut.
Now you can eat them againbecause they're not passing
through, stimulating that sameimmune pathway.
It's sometimes so simple, isn'tit?
Dr. Tamar (11:59):
So simple.
But you know, the last thingyou would think is oh, allergies
are related to what's going onin my gut, right, Let me just
have some Claretin and get theseshots every week.
Josh Dech (12:10):
Yeah, you can look at like histamine digesters.
I have clients who have a lotof histamine intolerances.
They take whatever theirantihistamines are.
I just switch them over to DAO.
That's Diaminoxidase, which isactually made in the small
intestine which helps metabolizehistamines.
Being bang-boom, you're fine.
So you're probably actuallylacking in certain microbes that
can metabolize these thingsproperly, along with, of course,
(12:31):
other factors.
The body can be so simple, butso amazing, you know.
Dr. Tamar (12:36):
Right Now, josh, being a recognized medical
lecturer at Priority HealthAcademy, you have a unique
platform right.
You're educating doctors aboutholistic approaches to gut
health.
Could you share memorablemoments or encounter, maybe
during one of those lectureswhere a doctor was skeptical and
perhaps had an aha moment,anything like that?
Josh Dech (12:57):
I could step this actually outside of the lectures
themselves.
I'm pretty new to PriorityHealth Academy.
I just got recruited this year.
I deal with GI specialists allthe time.
My bone to pick isn't withdoctors.
Like you know, medicalprofessionals be it pharmacists
or doctors you go to school tohelp people, you want to help
people heal, until you realize alot of them become some of the
(13:19):
best pharmaceutical reps in theindustry without realizing it,
because your only toolbox is amedication to cover a symptom.
And recently I was working witha 15-year-old boy just turned
16 with Crohn's.
His 5'7 was down to 93 pounds,so very, very thin very frail,
very sick, 15 bowel movements aday with blood, very, very sick.
His GI specialist had him onall the drugs they wanted to
(13:40):
push remiccate and intivio.
They wanted to try the Jackinhibitors and different drugs
that just time after timeweren't working.
We had him in the program foreight weeks, give or take,
because with this holistic route, what was that stimulation of
that inflammation?
He gained 23 pounds inside ofeight weeks, went back to his
doctor and word for word was I'mso glad you're feeling better,
(14:01):
but I don't love how you'regoing about it.
And so, yeah, that face youjust made, that's the same one I
made.
It's like what, what.
And so my bone to pick isn'twith the doctors themselves,
unless there's a complete denial, and I see this every day.
I got a client who's nowcompletely symptom-free.
We're 10 weeks in, 12 weeks inasymptomatic and her doctor
(14:22):
still wants to put her on tibiobecause on their paper they
still quote have this disease,but you're asymptomatic, why do
you need the drugs?
And so those are the sillystories that we battle.
But the doctors are told samething, like you were told, take
the drugs.
That covers the symptom.
Well, why is the symptom there?
Well, don't question theprotocol.
This is how it is just give themedication or your license is
(14:44):
on the line, that's pretty tough, that's true, or insurance is
not going to cover what you'retreatment and what you're doing.
Yeah, you're on your own, You'reout of pocket.
Dr. Tamar (14:54):
It's just not part of that protocol.
So if you had to pick becauseyou talk about how you've helped
your clients, your patients,right?
So if you had to pick onepractice or nutritional habit
that most powerfully influencesgut health, what would that be
and why?
Josh Dech (15:10):
Oh boy.
So that one is a bit of aloaded question, and I love it.
In general, in my experience, Ido advocate for animal-based
diets.
I really truly do, and that's abit controversial right now
especially, I'm actuallysupposed to be speaking on a
plant-based podcast coming uphere, and it's just very
dependent.
I'm a big fan of GI mapping andthat's how I actually determine
(15:33):
dietary protocols.
So, as a general spectrum, ifsomebody has very poor flora,
very poor imbalance, then goingtowards fermented vegetables and
fermented foods can be nice.
We can introduce theseprobiotics.
On the other hand, if somebodycomes back with bacterial
overgrowth, I don't want to feedthem fermentable vegetables and
fibers because it will feedthose bacteria, and so these
(15:53):
opportunistic or pathogenicbacteria that are overgrown will
create inflammatory byproductsleading to problems within the
system.
And so I split it to two mainpathways overgrown or undergrown
, and that's sort of theoverarching umbrella, we'll say
so my take on that one.
I'm kind of the politician thatno one votes for because my
stance is right in the middle, Idon't pick a side, but I think
(16:16):
individualized medicine andinvestigative medicine is the
best way to determine what dietsare appropriate, and that's
sort of my two cents on that one.
Dr. Tamar (16:24):
Yeah, I agree with that.
I can definitely see how GImapping what I do with
Nutrigenomics can go in hand andhand with it, as GI mapping is
very much more specific right.
So you know exactly what'sgoing on right now with the
patient With Nutrigenomics.
It's looking at the DNA andsaying, oh, you have the risk of
the potential of this happening, but it's not saying it's
happening right now.
(16:44):
So I can definitely see howthose can go hand in hand and to
get those results and getpatient improvement.
Josh Dech (16:52):
Totally See, I love that and I love that you talk
Nutrigenomics.
I mean one of the more commongenes that we see is, like the
MTHFR SNPs, right, and like youknow, inability to use folic
acid.
What is it?
44% of people have thatparticular SNP that can't use
folic acid, so need like an L5,methylfolate or something else.
But you specialize in thisstuff.
(17:12):
You know more than anyone.
If your blood pressure iselevated, you have a family
history of blood pressure.
It could be as simple as thatSNP.
You don't have the methylfolate, therefore you have a thionine
and homocysteine elevated.
Therefore your blood pressureas the byproduct is up.
You take the L5 and then you'regood and it comes back down.
It can be that simple.
It's.
Nutrigenomics is a fascinatingfield.
(17:33):
It's not my expertise, but Iabsolutely respect those of like
you who specialize in thisstuff.
It's fascinating.
Dr. Tamar (17:40):
Thank you.
It's like it's precision healthall around.
Even with what you're doing,you know you're finding the root
cause.
You're being more precise.
We're not guessing what we'redoing, just prolonged things.
It gives time for the diseasestates to get worse.
There's no need to guessanymore.
Josh Dech (17:57):
And it's expensive.
You know guessing.
You get sent someone for$10,000 worth of different labs
and functional labs and testingin your analysis and stool tests
and virology reports and youcan come back with nothing.
And that really is theimportance of, like you said,
precision medicine reallyknowing what you're getting into
and paying attention to thedisease processes, taking a
thorough history, getting intothe symptomatology and figuring
(18:19):
out your probability.
Do I want test A, b, c or D andhow likely is it?
And it's an amazing sciencethat it comes with practice and
I love that that's what you'reteaching here.
It's critical for healthcare inthe future.
Dr. Tamar (18:31):
I appreciate it.
Now, josh, our listeners arevery interested in the
connection between gut healthand brain health.
Can you provide some antidotesfrom your practice demonstrating
this nexus, or just give themsome?
Shine some light on thisrelationship between the gut and
brain health?
Josh Dech (18:49):
Yeah, you know, it's really interesting because the
stats are out there, they'reeverywhere, they're getting
quite popular that 90% of yourneurotransmitters are made in
the gut and it's so true.
I see clients who deal withdepression and anxiety and after
having their serotonin boostingbacteria back to normal, they
feel better or their dopaminethey can focus again.
They don't have the ADHD, it'sjust building the gut biome so
(19:11):
it can produce those byproducts.
And I explain it to my clientsvery simply.
I say you eat, you poop, yourbacteria eat and they poop.
Are they pooping good things orbad things?
And that's all we want to know.
It's that simple and so we canlook at this and go okay.
Well, there's vagal nervecommunication.
We know that it's abi-directional pathway between
the gut and the brain, like,again, neurotransmitter
(19:32):
production.
We see dopamine, we see GABA,serotonin.
All these things are built intothe system.
You're immune, modifying.
I look at anxiety.
Yes, one it's aneurotransmitter, neurochemical
imbalance, but two, it's aninflammatory condition, be it of
the gut or the brain.
The body's on high alert.
We know there are hormoneregulatory mechanisms that come
from the gut and the gut biomeand if your hormones are out of
(19:54):
whack, every woman on earthunderstands PMS and hormone
imbalances.
And especially if the PMS isworse, or men going through like
andropause, those burst, thoseoutbursts.
Or men coming off testosteronewho have their estrogens really
high and they have that bigspread between hormone levels,
they get these outbursts.
So hormones make a big issuewith the brain.
(20:15):
There's neuroinflammation,there's a relation to the
blood-brain barrier and leakygut and what leaks through?
A lot of things will leakthrough and actually get through
the blood-brain barrier and sothe gut-brain connection.
It goes so so far, far, Muchmore than I think we could kind
of see on the surface, and Ieven recently did an episode on
how our gut is related to gutreactions or how our brain and
(20:38):
gut connection influence thatgut reaction, and so it's really
fascinating stuff when we diveinto the nitty-gritty of it.
Dr. Tamar (20:45):
It is very nitty-gritty right.
There's years ago I didn'trealize how intricate that was,
how the gut really played a partin our entire body, and it's
just absolutely amazing.
That's where it is.
And when you talked about yousaid something just now about
serotonin producing bacteria itmade me think of bacteria like
medicine.
(21:05):
Right, it's a natural.
They're producing the naturalsubstances that we need to help
us and by making our gut healthy, we can have the abundance of
that.
We can have the amount that'sneeded so that we can be
stabilized naturally right?
Josh Dech (21:20):
Well, our gut's for everything.
I think we need to think of itexactly like that.
It's what's at the center ofour health.
I often will say that our gutbacteria are more important than
our DNA and when we look atthat byproduct of it, our human
genome is made about 23,000genes.
As you know, working ingenetics, 23,000 genes we have
upwards of 3 million differentgenes, or genetic pieces of
(21:41):
material, inside of our gutbacteria.
So we have 130 times moregenetic material inside of our
gut bacteria than we do ouractual DNA.
And we dive into this a bitdeeper.
I mean, you have to consider wehave one to 2,000 species that
we know of 7 to 9,000 strains,which gives you about 18 million
different bacteria on the highend.
Multiply it out, we have over100 trillion inside of our gut
(22:04):
alone, not to mention rectally,vaginally, in the nasal fairings
, in the mouth, in the hair, theskin, the nails are everywhere,
and these gut bacteria doeverything.
They integrate with everyaspect of our everything our
health, our wellness, our mentalhealth, our clarity, our
emotions, our immune system,genetic expression.
There's so much more to it andI think we really need to have a
(22:27):
reverence for our gut bacteriaand unfortunately still knowing
what we're knowing and seeingthis data start to come out.
Over the last 20 years or so,antibiotic usage has gone up by
43% since the year 2000.
And so, even understanding ourgut microbes and how important
they are, we're still seeingthis rise of antibiotic use or
(22:47):
rise of inflammatory foods.
Looking at my specialty, crohn'sColitis, we can see rates
depends on what data you look at.
Estimates in 1990 were 1.5 to 3million cases globally, now
it's 7 million.
And so again, if we're seeingit's idiopathic, we sure as hell
figure out where it's comingfrom.
And if it's genetic, that's astatistical improbability
(23:08):
because you can't have 5% of theworld's population, in the
United States, having 63% of theglobal cases of IBD.
How can it possibly be geneticor idiopathic?
There has to be a cause, and so, looking into this data, it
just gives us a whole differentperspective on what's really
causing these disease processes,and that's something that's my
(23:29):
mission is to spread theknowledge on the gut and to
create a greater reverence, Iwould say, for the gut biome and
how it influences and ingrateswith the rest of our lives.
Dr. Tamar (23:37):
And thank you for doing that, because, even as
pharmacists, we don't know thatthere's a lot we don't know
about the gut health because, asyou mentioned earlier, we're
taught one thing and that's todo the sick care.
Someone comes with symptoms andthis is a medication that we're
going to dispense for them oreven recommend to physicians for
them to take.
(23:58):
There's something's not right.
It's so much more than our DNA.
Now, you touched on foods thatcan be eaten, like you mentioned
, depending on the GI mappingresults, you would.
Certain things would berecommended or not recommended.
But what about lifestylefactors?
What type of lifestyle changescan impact the health of the gut
?
Josh Dech (24:18):
Oh jeez.
I think a better question iswhat can't?
It's a bi-directionalrelationship between our gut and
the rest of our world.
There's so much we can look at.
We can see lifestyle beconsidered going to work, the
job you have, familyrelationships, eating, drinking,
smoking, recreationalactivities these all have a role
to play.
I mean your gut bacteriaactually can influence how
(24:41):
social you feel like being.
It has a direct influence onthe foods you crave, the things
you want to do, your personality, and so that has a relationship
with our lifestyle as well.
So it is bi-directional.
But if we look at the lifestylethings, I mean smoking.
We know it's 31% of men inAmerica smoke.
19% of females smoke.
If we look at alcoholconsumption 15, 16 liters a year
(25:04):
for the average man out of 300,whatever million and some who
don't drink at all.
Sugar consumption right, 101pounds of sugar is the average
consumption per person inAmerica and that's 126.4 grams
per day.
It's 101.44 pounds a year.
So we're eating the weight of amedium-sized child to a small
(25:26):
teenager every year in just puresugar, and our opportunistic
bacteria love sugar.
Inflammatory pathogens, cancerslove sugar.
Looking at fast food, it's $160billion a year in the US alone,
$730 billion a year globally.
And if we start looking at theconsumption and even how we
(25:46):
consume our food even if itwasn't fast food how many of us
are eating at work or doingdashboard dining, running into
the car, taking the kids tosoccer and shoving food in our
faces?
We're not chewing, we're notinterested in digesting, we're
not producing stomach acid.
How many people do you knowthat are on antacids and that's
reeking havoc on their gut?
And so lifestyle factors are ascary thing.
(26:10):
But even looking at statisticsthat are influencing us
environmentally number onepesticide usage, depending on
where you're looking again forstats we're up two to four times
in the last 30 years.
Some arguments can be made thatpesticide consumption is up 19
times.
Looking at childbirth in 1990,the C-section rate was 7%.
They're expecting 29% by 2030.
(26:32):
And we know we need a vaginalbirth to have this vaginal canal
, that full inoculation ofbacteria, breastfeeding as well.
I mean 2013 to 2018, the statsthere 43% of newborns get to
initiate breastfeeding withinone hour.
Only 41% of infants under sixmonths are exclusively breastfed
, which means they're also fedformula containing hyaluronic
(26:54):
sunflower oil and inflammatorythings and artificial byproducts
, and so we're not getting thesethings naturally.
If we look at the environmentalfactors from the Red Cross.
They had done a study thatyou're probably familiar with
the Environmental Working Group.
They took 10 fresh umbilicalcords and found 287 chemicals,
180 known to cause cancer inhumans and animals.
(27:16):
217 of these chemicals aretoxic to the brain and nervous
system, 208 cause birth defects.
We're just full of toxins andthis is a baby who is freshly
born.
They have nearly 300 chemicalsin their body.
So, as far as lifestyle isconcerned, sometimes I wish I
lived in the jungle.
Dr. Tamar (27:35):
Fresh air chemical free.
Josh Dech (27:38):
That's it.
You're touching the grass andphotobiomodulation, getting into
the sun or discharging all thenegative ions and actually
balancing your pH, and all thatby touching the earth and
getting it to nature.
There's so much we can be doing.
Dr. Tamar (27:51):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
There's so much Wow.
It's more like what everythingyou can do when it comes to
lifestyle will affect your gut,and I think it's interesting too
, because you touched on Inoticed that stress when I
really started my program.
It was mainly women inhealthcare.
They're stressful environments.
They're also caretakers at home.
(28:11):
They're not taking care ofthemselves or putting themselves
on a back burner, and thatalone being in a state of
constant stress affects yourhealth.
Further studying for me, Irealized the effect on your gut
as well, how that impacted that.
So it's every aspect of yourlife that is impacted, and
(28:32):
knowing that your gut plays avital role and that is
absolutely amazing Our core,truly our core, our center it's
vital that we take care of it.
Josh Dech (28:41):
Yeah, like I keep saying, it's more important than
our DNA.
It influences our DNA,influences gene expression,
influences every aspect of ourlives and there's so much that
destroys it.
And it's interesting if we lookat stressors.
If you go back 100,000 yearsclassic story of running from a
saber-toothed tiger and get yourfood and run back to your cave,
those are acute stressors andthen you're fine, minus the PTSD
(29:04):
you might have from nearlyhaving your head bitten off.
But those are acute stressors.
But looking at today, we'reunder chronic low-grade stress
all the time, all the time, andwith that we're chronically
inflamed.
Our guts are chronicallyinflamed.
We're elevated cortisol.
I mean cortisol is great,obviously it's a beneficial
hormone, it's anti-inflammatory,but those are in natural levels
(29:24):
, but it's super physiologicallevels.
They're inflammatory, they canwear down the gut line in the
mucosal layer.
It will inhibit our stressresponses, inhibit HCl
production, which means we'regoing to be sink deficient,
we're going to be iron deficient, we're going to be nutrient
deficient.
We're not inhibiting thesemicrobes coming into the mouth
from going through the gut, andso we can develop SIBO
(29:45):
conditions or dysbiosis.
These imbalances and so, in myopinion, antacids are probably
one of the worst medicationsanyone can be given ever, and
it's directly attributed forthings like osteoporosis, gut
disease and again, gut diseasecan open the door to every
medical condition you canpossibly think of under the sun.
It's that window.
(30:05):
So stress is a killer in morethan one sense.
Dr. Tamar (30:08):
It certainly is Now, Josh, considering the
non-traditional approach thatyou're taking and addressing
these chronic.
Josh Dech (30:16):
It's not popular with everyone.
I'll promise you that it's notpopular?
Dr. Tamar (30:20):
Do you perceive that there could be a shift in
attitude towards thisnon-traditional method and,
ultimately, where do you see thefuture of gut health diagnosis
and treatment headed?
Josh Dech (30:30):
Wow, that's a good one to break down.
I think the attitude ischanging and I think we're
getting our eyes open more andmore.
As science starts to develop.
It becomes more undeniable themore in the public eye it is.
Unfortunately, there are somephysicians or some clinicians
who are unwilling to change, andit's like you went to medical
school 40 years ago, dude.
Things are going to change.
My wife recently changed doctorsfor the same reason.
(30:52):
She said hey, I'd like to see ablood panel.
I just want to make sureeverything's on par, like you're
37.
Let's get a beat on thingsright now and we can keep an eye
on things as you age.
And wow, you don't need that,you don't have problems.
I said, yeah, but what if?
Well, I'm not feeling supergreat.
Let's give you antidepressants,why?
And so we're just prescribingdrugs for things nonsensically
and we're masking symptoms.
(31:12):
And I am seeing the attitudechange progressively, but I'd
say it's more in the up andcoming medical professionals who
are willing to learn.
As it's getting more popular onsocial media.
We have doctors publishingbooks.
You got all kinds ofinformation out there and I'd
like to see it being more rootcause.
Unfortunately, I am hopeful.
(31:33):
I'm not optimistic because mylens.
I'm very cynical.
I'm like well, big pharma rulesthe world and they're too big
to shut down.
And even with their criminalfines looking at Pfizer and the
billions of dollars in criminalfines they have shell companies
and the amount of profit theymake.
They just consider it the costof doing business.
And these companies are payingfor a large portion of medical
(31:55):
school.
They pay for the studies, theserandomized, double blind,
controlled studies that costmillions of dollars, which at
the end have a informationalbias to push certain information
into textbooks which doctorslearn.
So I see that disparity gettinggreater and greater since the
late 1800s when Ayurveda,cholistic and Herbal's really
got scrubbed from the books.
(32:16):
However, I think there are a lotof voices right now who are
pushing for better.
It's not as profitable,obviously.
Protocols are fast, they'recheap, they're more profitable.
You get somebody in and out inyour office in seven to nine
minutes so you can rotate 40patients a day.
For me, two to three is all Ican see, because I spent hours
going through histories.
(32:36):
I got 40 to 60 pages ofpaperwork to take in before I
create a gut program for someoneto reverse these diseases,
because we have to consider allangles.
We have to consider the history, we have to look at root causes
and contributing factors, andit takes time.
I would like to see moreclinicians learning this type of
stuff, just to increase theavailability of it.
(32:58):
As availability increases, sowill demand.
But there is an uphill battleagainst big brother.
That's my view.
But I think the future can bebright if we give it to the
right hands, for sure.
Dr. Tamar (33:09):
Thank you for sharing that, josh.
I 100% agree with you on that,and my final question for you is
for those pharmacists out therethat are ready to step outside
that box and stop doing sickcare, how would you recommend
they start to perhaps pursuesomething towards the gut health
(33:30):
specialty?
Josh Dech (33:32):
Well, I'd be a little biased, I'd say, for sure, if
you want to learn about the gut,I got a podcast about it.
It's called Reversible, theultimate gut health podcast.
That's reverse able and itreally is.
It's all about the gut, how ourworld interacts and how our gut
interacts with our world.
That's a great one.
Just to learn the basics.
And once you start to understandthe importance of the gut, to
(33:54):
really consider in your practicethe medications you're giving
or prescribing or are fillingfor people.
Can there be some coaching orconsulting that you do inside of
that and talk to your patients,say, hey, I know your doctor
recommended these antacids thatwe have, whatever it may be, but
here's my thoughts on this thisacid reflux.
The primary cause for acidreflux is actually low stomach
acid.
(34:14):
So do we really want tosuppress it further?
And really diving into thesethings and educating your
patients as you're learning,because realistically, you got
to be one hour of educationahead of them to be able to help
them take the next steps.
That's it and your medicalbackground.
I do nothing related toparamedics now, but my education
has been a huge branch.
(34:35):
I wanted to credibility, peopleactually listening, because I
have a formal education.
But two it's allowed me to makeconnections on a different
level.
I can identify the pathologies,just like you guys can.
You can identify the rootcauses rather than just the
symptom treatment, and toeducate your patients that, hey,
these medications are symptommanagement.
That's all it is.
But if you're interested in theroot cause, maybe I can help you
(34:58):
.
And then you get to guide themthrough that process and talk
about these diseases where theyare on set, what they're doing,
what their lifestyle is like thesmoking and drinking.
If they don't care, fine, butat least they're educated and
can make that choice themselves,rather than being robbed of the
choice by being givenmedications without question.
Dr. Tamar (35:14):
Thank you.
Thank you for sharing that,josh, and I'd like to also thank
you for being my guest on thePivoting Pharmacy of
Nutrigenomics podcast.
It was a pleasure to talk withyou.
Josh Dech (35:24):
It's been a pleasure to be here tomorrow.
Thank you so much for having me.
Dr. Tamar (35:27):
You're welcome as we draw close to the end of this
enlightening journey through theintricate worlds of DNA, gut
bacteria and personal health ofJosh Jack.
I want you to remember thisyour DNA may play a role in your
gut health, but it does notdefine you or your patients.
That's all I have for you today.
If any part of thisconversation about gut health
(35:48):
sparked interest or resonatedwith you, I'd love to hear your
thoughts.
Your five star review andcomments can guide others on a
similar journey.
Subscribe, rate and downloadthis episode to ensure you're
always in the loop.
Now coming up next week on theshow, we're talking about the
potential to revolutionize thefuture of pharmacy with genomics
and cannabis.
(36:09):
This deep dive will allow youto reimagine the impact you can
make on healthcare, empoweringyour patients and thriving in
your practice without beingconfined by traditional pharmacy
.
So tune in next Friday.
Until then, always remember inyour journey as a healthcare
professional, always raise thescript on health, because
together we can bring healthcareto higher levels.
Have you, or perhaps your patients, been struggling
with gut issues but can't seemto get to the root cause?
They may be relying too heavilyon medications to mask their
symptoms instead of addressingunderlying problems.
Our DNA may seem like theultimate puppet master,
controlling everything from ourphysical traits to health
susceptibilities.
But guess what, my friends?
(00:21):
Your gut bacteria can rewriteyour health story.
So grab your cuppa, cozy up andjoin us for this eye-opening
episode.
As we chat with holisticnutritionist Josh Dech, who
helps patients reverse chronicgut diseases like Crohn's and
Colitis through lifestyle anddiet changes, we're ready to
learn how DNA isn't the onlyplayer on the field of
(00:42):
well-being.
Welcome to Pivoting Pharmacywith Nutrigenomics.
Part of the Pharmacy PodcastNetwork, a must-have resource
for pharmacist entrepreneursseeking to enhance patient care
while enjoying career and life.
Join us as we pivot intoNutrigenomics, using pharmacy
and nutrition for truepatient-focused care.
(01:04):
Explore how to improve chronicconditions rather than just
manage them.
Celebrate entrepreneurialtriumphs and receive priceless
advice.
Join your values with a careerthat profoundly impacts patients
.
Together, we'll raise thescript on health and pivot into
a brighter future.
Before you listen in, I want tothank our listener of the week,
(01:27):
who said thank you tomorrow formaking Nutrigenomics easy to
understand.
You are very much welcome,because if you find it easy to
understand, then I know I'mdoing something right.
Thank you for your review andremember, when you leave us a
five-star review, you'll get thechance to be featured as our
next listener of the week andI'll give you a shout out right
here on the show.
(01:49):
Hello, hello and welcome toepisode 15 of Pivoting Pharmacy
with Nutrigenomics.
I'm Dr Laufel, your doctor ofpharmacy and certified
nutritional genomic specialist.
Today's episode, we're talkingabout why your DNA doesn't
matter.
Yeah, I know it seems wrong.
Right, because we're a podcastthat's talking about
Nutrigenomics and DNA and how itdoes matter.
(02:11):
But hear me out.
We're going to talk with JoshDech, who's going to tell us why
gut bacteria matters, more sothan DNA, and, as bold as it
sounds, it's wrapping up layersof illuminated truths on our
path to healthier lives.
Over the years, we havediscovered that there's more to
our health than previouslythought.
Right, we can make changes inour eating habits, change how we
(02:34):
sleep, stress at work or home.
All these elements weave intothe fabric of our well-being and
we know that the significantplayer involved all this is deep
in ourselves, which is our DNA,because it's like a scaffold of
our being influencingeverything from our hair color
and eye color right down to ourpredisposition to health issues,
even factors affecting ourdigestive health, our gut health
(02:57):
.
They're coded deep within thegene sequences.
But here's a twist your DNAdoes not have to define you, it
does not have to limit you, andthat's why joining us today is
our good friend, josh Dech, aformer paramedic turned holistic
nutritionist specializing ingut health.
Given his tremendous success inhelping clients overcome complex
digestive diseases usingholistic approaches, conscious
(03:20):
nutrition and soliddetermination, I know he's got a
wealth of insights to share.
Together, we're about to plungeinto the world of gut health,
exploring why your DNA doesn'tmatter, but your gut bacteria
does.
So let's listen in, josh.
Welcome, welcome.
Thanks for joining me onPivoting Pharmacy with
Nutrigenomics.
Now you've made an interestingtransition from being a
(03:42):
paramedic to a holisticnutritionist.
Could you share a definingmoment that triggered this
transformation?
Josh Dech (03:48):
It's interesting because there are actually two
defining moments, like skippingstones from one to the next.
So I used to be a paramedic andI realized pretty quickly it
was sick care, not health care.
You pick up the same peopleover and over, week after week.
You take them to the hospital.
You start to know your patientswhen you see them over and over
and I pick them up for whateverissue it was a heart issue, or
it was a respiratory issue, ormy favorite is generally unwell
(04:11):
and then we take them to thehospital and they either get an
update on prescription, they getbigger dose of their
prescriptions, or they get senthome told they're fine, right,
and nobody was figuring out whythese people were sick.
And so I ended up leaving mycareer within a year or two and
I started personal trainingfull-time.
It's something I've beenpassionate about for years and
I've met with this woman namedLynn.
She was 57 years old when shecame to see me and she was on 17
(04:35):
pills and insulin for breakfast, nine pills and insulin with
bedtime.
She had a CPAP machine, highblood pressure, borderline CHF.
She was on the disability listat work, so you name it Clearly
her life was very steadilydeclining and, as a pharmacist,
you know her future is moreprescriptions and then more
prescriptions to battle thecontraindications or the
complications of thoseprescriptions Exactly.
(04:57):
And so we started working withher, went into the gut and
nutrition and movement andexercise.
Within two years she was offall but two medications,
strictly because she had a ruleon why surgery.
So they pulled 76% and she hada medication for that.
But she was off all hermedications but two H59, she
broke her first world record asa weightlifter in the raw power
lifting division.
Dr. Tamar (05:16):
Awesome.
Josh Dech (05:18):
Oh, it was amazing and that started this whole
journey.
And then I got into nutritionmore and more and I got deeper
and realized every case that Iwould see whether it was PCOS or
just severe PMS, asthma,anxiety, depression, eczema,
diabetes it always came back tothe gut and so I started diving
in and I got closer and closerand then the worst and the worst
(05:38):
gut cases.
I began seeing severe IBS.
I ended up specializing in IBD,so I see a lot of Crohn's and
Colitis as my specialty and weare successfully reversing many,
many cases.
About 90% 95% who come to seeme are between 50% to 100%
reversed within the first 90days, regardless of whether
they've been at it for a year,15, 16 years.
(06:00):
They can all be reversed andthat's sort of what led me to
where I am today.
Dr. Tamar (06:04):
Wow, that is amazing.
Josh, I definitely resonatewith you when you talked about
seeing the same patients in thatambulance for the same issues
and then when you see them againnow there are more medications
than they were before, theirsituation is more complex and
complicated, and it was the samething that set me on the path
to where I am today, seeingthose frequent flyers I call
(06:26):
them in the hospital alwayscoming back within two weeks, 30
days, whatever it is, they'recoming back and they're not
getting any better.
So I definitely resonate withyou and that success that your
patients have had with justmaking those changes in their
lives and addressing those gutissues that is absolutely
amazing.
I can't even I've never evendone a marathon.
Josh Dech (06:48):
You know what me either.
I hate cardio.
It's really hard to talk meinto doing any sort of cardio,
but it is amazing what the bodyis capable of.
We have these diseases like,again, ibd.
That's classically consideredby both the Crohn's Colitis
Foundation's the Mayo Clinic.
It's considered to beautoimmune or idiopathic.
But the reality is we have tolook at these diseases as sort
(07:12):
of a progressive wear and tear.
Medicine has spent 30, 40 yearsplus really trying to separate
IBS and IBD, to differentiatethese conditions, to determine
what sort of factors make themdifferent, why they're different
, how they onset, what thepathology is of these disease
processes and my work.
Now I'm actually blurring thelines again and saying nope,
we've gone too far.
We need to look at the diseasewear and tear.
(07:33):
Something as simple as like ifsomeone comes in picture, you
know, running a marathon, forexample is that if you put on a
brand new pair of shoes and youdid not wear socks and you went
for a run, what happens to yourheel?
It gets red, it gets a littleraw, it gets blistered, it
bleeds, and this is theprogression that I've actually
identified in the histories Itake with these IBD patients.
(07:55):
So they come in and it's a lotof the same stuff.
It's one of two things.
One it's a rapid onset due toan insult of some kind, be it
mycotoxin poisoning, be itantibiotic usage, something that
disrupted the biome, or it'sthis wear and tear process.
And so to say it's eithergenetic or idiopathic is insane,
and I'll tell you why.
(08:15):
Number one the USA is less than5% of the global population,
but these are numbers from 2019,63% of the world's cases of
IBDs concentrated in less than5%.
So if it's genetic, it's astatistical anomaly, and the
cases have risen from anywherefrom 1.5 to 3 million give or
(08:36):
take on the estimates in 1990 to7 million today.
So if it's idiopathic, webetter figure out pretty
freaking fast what's causingthis problem, because the
numbers are climbing like crazy,and that's my take on the gut.
Dr. Tamar (08:48):
Wow, that is phenomenal, those numbers.
And, as we talked earlier aboutthe genetic aspect of things,
yes, there are some aspects ofan individual's genetics that
can predispose them or make thema higher risk for developing
certain gut issues, but it's notthe end all be all.
There are some things incertain cases that can be done,
(09:09):
as you're mentioning right.
If it's idiopathic, wedefinitely have to find out what
it is.
Josh Dech (09:13):
Yeah, I mean, if we look at genes themselves,
genetics are fascinating becauseobviously a lot of them can
turn up and turn down, much likea dial, If you're into the work
by Dr Ben Lynch, like his bookDirty Genes, cleaning those
genes.
We talk about a lot of thisstuff and there are genes, of
course, that are associated withIBD or Crohn's, your NOD2s,
your inner leucans and I thinkit's IL23R, different things
(09:36):
that are associated.
But a lot of the stuff, evenSIBO, can be considered in some
cases as an autoimmune.
But that comes from, say, foodpoisoning, where there's actual
molecular mimicry.
Looking at these toxins thatcame in that look like enzymes
that your body already has.
That sets this molecularmimicry, autoimmunity, and so
those things can happen.
But in my experience to saythey're genetic, sure, you're
(09:58):
predisposed, but so is arthritis, so is Hashimoto's.
These are the weak links inyour genes that when you have
breakdown of your body's naturalprocesses or you express
inflammation, they will beexpressed via these modalities,
via asthma, via arthritis or gutissues.
It's just where in those breaksit happens to be expressed and
how quickly that disease processon sets.
Dr. Tamar (10:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
And it makes me think also whenyou mentioned the connection,
the extent to which the healthof the gut has on the rest of
our bodies, and I know for meallergies.
I have sense food sensitivitiesto so many different healthy
foods.
Healthy, they are very healthyfoods, but the struggle I had
(10:39):
with my health early on was howcan I get healthy if I can't
tolerate these healthy foods",and I eventually realized it had
to do with repair in my gut andonce I was able to do that, I
can now have these foods thatbefore I just couldn't tolerate
at all.
Josh Dech (10:54):
It's amazing how that happens.
The gut leaky gut was actuallycoined, we'll say discovered, by
Dr Lessio Fasano, and he has apaper out and it's called All
Diseases Begin in the Leaky Gut,and it's something how they had
the pretext of the subtextafter the title about the role
of zonulin-mediated leaky gut inthese inflammatory conditions.
And that's exactly it.
(11:15):
It's just leaks in your gutwhere macromolecules have passed
through, got to yourbloodstream.
Your body goes, hey, man, youshouldn't be here in chewed or
alert.
And now you have thesensitivity.
But these are often we measurethese IgGs and I'm sure you've
talked about this and, aspharmacists listening, you guys
know IgGs are these slow-onsetsand so they're really not that
accurate.
Your body produces IgGs toevery food, always anyways.
(11:37):
It's just a matter of howsevere the reaction is, how big
the leaks are.
There's so many differentfactors and it's important
absolutely to avoid those foods,just like you did, to not make
those leaks bigger.
But you avoided those, healedyour gut.
Now you can eat them againbecause they're not passing
through, stimulating that sameimmune pathway.
It's sometimes so simple, isn'tit?
Dr. Tamar (11:59):
So simple.
But you know, the last thingyou would think is oh, allergies
are related to what's going onin my gut, right, Let me just
have some Claretin and get theseshots every week.
Josh Dech (12:10):
Yeah, you can look at like histamine digesters.
I have clients who have a lotof histamine intolerances.
They take whatever theirantihistamines are.
I just switch them over to DAO.
That's Diaminoxidase, which isactually made in the small
intestine which helps metabolizehistamines.
Being bang-boom, you're fine.
So you're probably actuallylacking in certain microbes that
can metabolize these thingsproperly, along with, of course,
(12:31):
other factors.
The body can be so simple, butso amazing, you know.
Dr. Tamar (12:36):
Right Now, josh, being a recognized medical
lecturer at Priority HealthAcademy, you have a unique
platform right.
You're educating doctors aboutholistic approaches to gut
health.
Could you share memorablemoments or encounter, maybe
during one of those lectureswhere a doctor was skeptical and
perhaps had an aha moment,anything like that?
Josh Dech (12:57):
I could step this actually outside of the lectures
themselves.
I'm pretty new to PriorityHealth Academy.
I just got recruited this year.
I deal with GI specialists allthe time.
My bone to pick isn't withdoctors.
Like you know, medicalprofessionals be it pharmacists
or doctors you go to school tohelp people, you want to help
people heal, until you realize alot of them become some of the
(13:19):
best pharmaceutical reps in theindustry without realizing it,
because your only toolbox is amedication to cover a symptom.
And recently I was working witha 15-year-old boy just turned
16 with Crohn's.
His 5'7 was down to 93 pounds,so very, very thin very frail,
very sick, 15 bowel movements aday with blood, very, very sick.
His GI specialist had him onall the drugs they wanted to
(13:40):
push remiccate and intivio.
They wanted to try the Jackinhibitors and different drugs
that just time after timeweren't working.
We had him in the program foreight weeks, give or take,
because with this holistic route, what was that stimulation of
that inflammation?
He gained 23 pounds inside ofeight weeks, went back to his
doctor and word for word was I'mso glad you're feeling better,
(14:01):
but I don't love how you'regoing about it.
And so, yeah, that face youjust made, that's the same one I
made.
It's like what, what.
And so my bone to pick isn'twith the doctors themselves,
unless there's a complete denial, and I see this every day.
I got a client who's nowcompletely symptom-free.
We're 10 weeks in, 12 weeks inasymptomatic and her doctor
(14:22):
still wants to put her on tibiobecause on their paper they
still quote have this disease,but you're asymptomatic, why do
you need the drugs?
And so those are the sillystories that we battle.
But the doctors are told samething, like you were told, take
the drugs.
That covers the symptom.
Well, why is the symptom there?
Well, don't question theprotocol.
This is how it is just give themedication or your license is
(14:44):
on the line, that's pretty tough, that's true, or insurance is
not going to cover what you'retreatment and what you're doing.
Yeah, you're on your own, You'reout of pocket.
Dr. Tamar (14:54):
It's just not part of that protocol.
So if you had to pick becauseyou talk about how you've helped
your clients, your patients,right?
So if you had to pick onepractice or nutritional habit
that most powerfully influencesgut health, what would that be
and why?
Josh Dech (15:10):
Oh boy.
So that one is a bit of aloaded question, and I love it.
In general, in my experience, Ido advocate for animal-based
diets.
I really truly do, and that's abit controversial right now
especially, I'm actuallysupposed to be speaking on a
plant-based podcast coming uphere, and it's just very
dependent.
I'm a big fan of GI mapping andthat's how I actually determine
(15:33):
dietary protocols.
So, as a general spectrum, ifsomebody has very poor flora,
very poor imbalance, then goingtowards fermented vegetables and
fermented foods can be nice.
We can introduce theseprobiotics.
On the other hand, if somebodycomes back with bacterial
overgrowth, I don't want to feedthem fermentable vegetables and
fibers because it will feedthose bacteria, and so these
(15:53):
opportunistic or pathogenicbacteria that are overgrown will
create inflammatory byproductsleading to problems within the
system.
And so I split it to two mainpathways overgrown or undergrown
, and that's sort of theoverarching umbrella, we'll say
so my take on that one.
I'm kind of the politician thatno one votes for because my
stance is right in the middle, Idon't pick a side, but I think
(16:16):
individualized medicine andinvestigative medicine is the
best way to determine what dietsare appropriate, and that's
sort of my two cents on that one.
Dr. Tamar (16:24):
Yeah, I agree with that.
I can definitely see how GImapping what I do with
Nutrigenomics can go in hand andhand with it, as GI mapping is
very much more specific right.
So you know exactly what'sgoing on right now with the
patient With Nutrigenomics.
It's looking at the DNA andsaying, oh, you have the risk of
the potential of this happening, but it's not saying it's
happening right now.
(16:44):
So I can definitely see howthose can go hand in hand and to
get those results and getpatient improvement.
Josh Dech (16:52):
Totally See, I love that and I love that you talk
Nutrigenomics.
I mean one of the more commongenes that we see is, like the
MTHFR SNPs, right, and like youknow, inability to use folic
acid.
What is it?
44% of people have thatparticular SNP that can't use
folic acid, so need like an L5,methylfolate or something else.
But you specialize in thisstuff.
(17:12):
You know more than anyone.
If your blood pressure iselevated, you have a family
history of blood pressure.
It could be as simple as thatSNP.
You don't have the methylfolate, therefore you have a thionine
and homocysteine elevated.
Therefore your blood pressureas the byproduct is up.
You take the L5 and then you'regood and it comes back down.
It can be that simple.
It's.
Nutrigenomics is a fascinatingfield.
(17:33):
It's not my expertise, but Iabsolutely respect those of like
you who specialize in thisstuff.
It's fascinating.
Dr. Tamar (17:40):
Thank you.
It's like it's precision healthall around.
Even with what you're doing,you know you're finding the root
cause.
You're being more precise.
We're not guessing what we'redoing, just prolonged things.
It gives time for the diseasestates to get worse.
There's no need to guessanymore.
Josh Dech (17:57):
And it's expensive.
You know guessing.
You get sent someone for$10,000 worth of different labs
and functional labs and testingin your analysis and stool tests
and virology reports and youcan come back with nothing.
And that really is theimportance of, like you said,
precision medicine reallyknowing what you're getting into
and paying attention to thedisease processes, taking a
thorough history, getting intothe symptomatology and figuring
(18:19):
out your probability.
Do I want test A, b, c or D andhow likely is it?
And it's an amazing sciencethat it comes with practice and
I love that that's what you'reteaching here.
It's critical for healthcare inthe future.
Dr. Tamar (18:31):
I appreciate it.
Now, josh, our listeners arevery interested in the
connection between gut healthand brain health.
Can you provide some antidotesfrom your practice demonstrating
this nexus, or just give themsome?
Shine some light on thisrelationship between the gut and
brain health?
Josh Dech (18:49):
Yeah, you know, it's really interesting because the
stats are out there, they'reeverywhere, they're getting
quite popular that 90% of yourneurotransmitters are made in
the gut and it's so true.
I see clients who deal withdepression and anxiety and after
having their serotonin boostingbacteria back to normal, they
feel better or their dopaminethey can focus again.
They don't have the ADHD, it'sjust building the gut biome so
(19:11):
it can produce those byproducts.
And I explain it to my clientsvery simply.
I say you eat, you poop, yourbacteria eat and they poop.
Are they pooping good things orbad things?
And that's all we want to know.
It's that simple and so we canlook at this and go okay.
Well, there's vagal nervecommunication.
We know that it's abi-directional pathway between
the gut and the brain, like,again, neurotransmitter
(19:32):
production.
We see dopamine, we see GABA,serotonin.
All these things are built intothe system.
You're immune, modifying.
I look at anxiety.
Yes, one it's aneurotransmitter, neurochemical
imbalance, but two, it's aninflammatory condition, be it of
the gut or the brain.
The body's on high alert.
We know there are hormoneregulatory mechanisms that come
from the gut and the gut biomeand if your hormones are out of
(19:54):
whack, every woman on earthunderstands PMS and hormone
imbalances.
And especially if the PMS isworse, or men going through like
andropause, those burst, thoseoutbursts.
Or men coming off testosteronewho have their estrogens really
high and they have that bigspread between hormone levels,
they get these outbursts.
So hormones make a big issuewith the brain.
(20:15):
There's neuroinflammation,there's a relation to the
blood-brain barrier and leakygut and what leaks through?
A lot of things will leakthrough and actually get through
the blood-brain barrier and sothe gut-brain connection.
It goes so so far, far, Muchmore than I think we could kind
of see on the surface, and Ieven recently did an episode on
how our gut is related to gutreactions or how our brain and
(20:38):
gut connection influence thatgut reaction, and so it's really
fascinating stuff when we diveinto the nitty-gritty of it.
Dr. Tamar (20:45):
It is very nitty-gritty right.
There's years ago I didn'trealize how intricate that was,
how the gut really played a partin our entire body, and it's
just absolutely amazing.
That's where it is.
And when you talked about yousaid something just now about
serotonin producing bacteria itmade me think of bacteria like
medicine.
(21:05):
Right, it's a natural.
They're producing the naturalsubstances that we need to help
us and by making our gut healthy, we can have the abundance of
that.
We can have the amount that'sneeded so that we can be
stabilized naturally right?
Josh Dech (21:20):
Well, our gut's for everything.
I think we need to think of itexactly like that.
It's what's at the center ofour health.
I often will say that our gutbacteria are more important than
our DNA and when we look atthat byproduct of it, our human
genome is made about 23,000genes.
As you know, working ingenetics, 23,000 genes we have
upwards of 3 million differentgenes, or genetic pieces of
(21:41):
material, inside of our gutbacteria.
So we have 130 times moregenetic material inside of our
gut bacteria than we do ouractual DNA.
And we dive into this a bitdeeper.
I mean, you have to consider wehave one to 2,000 species that
we know of 7 to 9,000 strains,which gives you about 18 million
different bacteria on the highend.
Multiply it out, we have over100 trillion inside of our gut
(22:04):
alone, not to mention rectally,vaginally, in the nasal fairings
, in the mouth, in the hair, theskin, the nails are everywhere,
and these gut bacteria doeverything.
They integrate with everyaspect of our everything our
health, our wellness, our mentalhealth, our clarity, our
emotions, our immune system,genetic expression.
There's so much more to it andI think we really need to have a
(22:27):
reverence for our gut bacteriaand unfortunately still knowing
what we're knowing and seeingthis data start to come out.
Over the last 20 years or so,antibiotic usage has gone up by
43% since the year 2000.
And so, even understanding ourgut microbes and how important
they are, we're still seeingthis rise of antibiotic use or
(22:47):
rise of inflammatory foods.
Looking at my specialty, crohn'sColitis, we can see rates
depends on what data you look at.
Estimates in 1990 were 1.5 to 3million cases globally, now
it's 7 million.
And so again, if we're seeingit's idiopathic, we sure as hell
figure out where it's comingfrom.
And if it's genetic, that's astatistical improbability
(23:08):
because you can't have 5% of theworld's population, in the
United States, having 63% of theglobal cases of IBD.
How can it possibly be geneticor idiopathic?
There has to be a cause, and so, looking into this data, it
just gives us a whole differentperspective on what's really
causing these disease processes,and that's something that's my
(23:29):
mission is to spread theknowledge on the gut and to
create a greater reverence, Iwould say, for the gut biome and
how it influences and ingrateswith the rest of our lives.
Dr. Tamar (23:37):
And thank you for doing that, because, even as
pharmacists, we don't know thatthere's a lot we don't know
about the gut health because, asyou mentioned earlier, we're
taught one thing and that's todo the sick care.
Someone comes with symptoms andthis is a medication that we're
going to dispense for them oreven recommend to physicians for
them to take.
(23:58):
There's something's not right.
It's so much more than our DNA.
Now, you touched on foods thatcan be eaten, like you mentioned
, depending on the GI mappingresults, you would.
Certain things would berecommended or not recommended.
But what about lifestylefactors?
What type of lifestyle changescan impact the health of the gut
?
Josh Dech (24:18):
Oh jeez.
I think a better question iswhat can't?
It's a bi-directionalrelationship between our gut and
the rest of our world.
There's so much we can look at.
We can see lifestyle beconsidered going to work, the
job you have, familyrelationships, eating, drinking,
smoking, recreationalactivities these all have a role
to play.
I mean your gut bacteriaactually can influence how
(24:41):
social you feel like being.
It has a direct influence onthe foods you crave, the things
you want to do, your personality, and so that has a relationship
with our lifestyle as well.
So it is bi-directional.
But if we look at the lifestylethings, I mean smoking.
We know it's 31% of men inAmerica smoke.
19% of females smoke.
If we look at alcoholconsumption 15, 16 liters a year
(25:04):
for the average man out of 300,whatever million and some who
don't drink at all.
Sugar consumption right, 101pounds of sugar is the average
consumption per person inAmerica and that's 126.4 grams
per day.
It's 101.44 pounds a year.
So we're eating the weight of amedium-sized child to a small
(25:26):
teenager every year in just puresugar, and our opportunistic
bacteria love sugar.
Inflammatory pathogens, cancerslove sugar.
Looking at fast food, it's $160billion a year in the US alone,
$730 billion a year globally.
And if we start looking at theconsumption and even how we
(25:46):
consume our food even if itwasn't fast food how many of us
are eating at work or doingdashboard dining, running into
the car, taking the kids tosoccer and shoving food in our
faces?
We're not chewing, we're notinterested in digesting, we're
not producing stomach acid.
How many people do you knowthat are on antacids and that's
reeking havoc on their gut?
And so lifestyle factors are ascary thing.
(26:10):
But even looking at statisticsthat are influencing us
environmentally number onepesticide usage, depending on
where you're looking again forstats we're up two to four times
in the last 30 years.
Some arguments can be made thatpesticide consumption is up 19
times.
Looking at childbirth in 1990,the C-section rate was 7%.
They're expecting 29% by 2030.
(26:32):
And we know we need a vaginalbirth to have this vaginal canal
, that full inoculation ofbacteria, breastfeeding as well.
I mean 2013 to 2018, the statsthere 43% of newborns get to
initiate breastfeeding withinone hour.
Only 41% of infants under sixmonths are exclusively breastfed
, which means they're also fedformula containing hyaluronic
(26:54):
sunflower oil and inflammatorythings and artificial byproducts
, and so we're not getting thesethings naturally.
If we look at the environmentalfactors from the Red Cross.
They had done a study thatyou're probably familiar with
the Environmental Working Group.
They took 10 fresh umbilicalcords and found 287 chemicals,
180 known to cause cancer inhumans and animals.
(27:16):
217 of these chemicals aretoxic to the brain and nervous
system, 208 cause birth defects.
We're just full of toxins andthis is a baby who is freshly
born.
They have nearly 300 chemicalsin their body.
So, as far as lifestyle isconcerned, sometimes I wish I
lived in the jungle.
Dr. Tamar (27:35):
Fresh air chemical free.
Josh Dech (27:38):
That's it.
You're touching the grass andphotobiomodulation, getting into
the sun or discharging all thenegative ions and actually
balancing your pH, and all thatby touching the earth and
getting it to nature.
There's so much we can be doing.
Dr. Tamar (27:51):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
There's so much Wow.
It's more like what everythingyou can do when it comes to
lifestyle will affect your gut,and I think it's interesting too
, because you touched on Inoticed that stress when I
really started my program.
It was mainly women inhealthcare.
They're stressful environments.
They're also caretakers at home.
(28:11):
They're not taking care ofthemselves or putting themselves
on a back burner, and thatalone being in a state of
constant stress affects yourhealth.
Further studying for me, Irealized the effect on your gut
as well, how that impacted that.
So it's every aspect of yourlife that is impacted, and
(28:32):
knowing that your gut plays avital role and that is
absolutely amazing Our core,truly our core, our center it's
vital that we take care of it.
Josh Dech (28:41):
Yeah, like I keep saying, it's more important than
our DNA.
It influences our DNA,influences gene expression,
influences every aspect of ourlives and there's so much that
destroys it.
And it's interesting if we lookat stressors.
If you go back 100,000 yearsclassic story of running from a
saber-toothed tiger and get yourfood and run back to your cave,
those are acute stressors andthen you're fine, minus the PTSD
(29:04):
you might have from nearlyhaving your head bitten off.
But those are acute stressors.
But looking at today, we'reunder chronic low-grade stress
all the time, all the time, andwith that we're chronically
inflamed.
Our guts are chronicallyinflamed.
We're elevated cortisol.
I mean cortisol is great,obviously it's a beneficial
hormone, it's anti-inflammatory,but those are in natural levels
(29:24):
, but it's super physiologicallevels.
They're inflammatory, they canwear down the gut line in the
mucosal layer.
It will inhibit our stressresponses, inhibit HCl
production, which means we'regoing to be sink deficient,
we're going to be iron deficient, we're going to be nutrient
deficient.
We're not inhibiting thesemicrobes coming into the mouth
from going through the gut, andso we can develop SIBO
(29:45):
conditions or dysbiosis.
These imbalances and so, in myopinion, antacids are probably
one of the worst medicationsanyone can be given ever, and
it's directly attributed forthings like osteoporosis, gut
disease and again, gut diseasecan open the door to every
medical condition you canpossibly think of under the sun.
It's that window.
(30:05):
So stress is a killer in morethan one sense.
Dr. Tamar (30:08):
It certainly is Now, Josh, considering the
non-traditional approach thatyou're taking and addressing
these chronic.
Josh Dech (30:16):
It's not popular with everyone.
I'll promise you that it's notpopular?
Dr. Tamar (30:20):
Do you perceive that there could be a shift in
attitude towards thisnon-traditional method and,
ultimately, where do you see thefuture of gut health diagnosis
and treatment headed?
Josh Dech (30:30):
Wow, that's a good one to break down.
I think the attitude ischanging and I think we're
getting our eyes open more andmore.
As science starts to develop.
It becomes more undeniable themore in the public eye it is.
Unfortunately, there are somephysicians or some clinicians
who are unwilling to change, andit's like you went to medical
school 40 years ago, dude.
Things are going to change.
My wife recently changed doctorsfor the same reason.
(30:52):
She said hey, I'd like to see ablood panel.
I just want to make sureeverything's on par, like you're
37.
Let's get a beat on thingsright now and we can keep an eye
on things as you age.
And wow, you don't need that,you don't have problems.
I said, yeah, but what if?
Well, I'm not feeling supergreat.
Let's give you antidepressants,why?
And so we're just prescribingdrugs for things nonsensically
and we're masking symptoms.
(31:12):
And I am seeing the attitudechange progressively, but I'd
say it's more in the up andcoming medical professionals who
are willing to learn.
As it's getting more popular onsocial media.
We have doctors publishingbooks.
You got all kinds ofinformation out there and I'd
like to see it being more rootcause.
Unfortunately, I am hopeful.
(31:33):
I'm not optimistic because mylens.
I'm very cynical.
I'm like well, big pharma rulesthe world and they're too big
to shut down.
And even with their criminalfines looking at Pfizer and the
billions of dollars in criminalfines they have shell companies
and the amount of profit theymake.
They just consider it the costof doing business.
And these companies are payingfor a large portion of medical
(31:55):
school.
They pay for the studies, theserandomized, double blind,
controlled studies that costmillions of dollars, which at
the end have a informationalbias to push certain information
into textbooks which doctorslearn.
So I see that disparity gettinggreater and greater since the
late 1800s when Ayurveda,cholistic and Herbal's really
got scrubbed from the books.
(32:16):
However, I think there are a lotof voices right now who are
pushing for better.
It's not as profitable,obviously.
Protocols are fast, they'recheap, they're more profitable.
You get somebody in and out inyour office in seven to nine
minutes so you can rotate 40patients a day.
For me, two to three is all Ican see, because I spent hours
going through histories.
(32:36):
I got 40 to 60 pages ofpaperwork to take in before I
create a gut program for someoneto reverse these diseases,
because we have to consider allangles.
We have to consider the history, we have to look at root causes
and contributing factors, andit takes time.
I would like to see moreclinicians learning this type of
stuff, just to increase theavailability of it.
(32:58):
As availability increases, sowill demand.
But there is an uphill battleagainst big brother.
That's my view.
But I think the future can bebright if we give it to the
right hands, for sure.
Dr. Tamar (33:09):
Thank you for sharing that, josh.
I 100% agree with you on that,and my final question for you is
for those pharmacists out therethat are ready to step outside
that box and stop doing sickcare, how would you recommend
they start to perhaps pursuesomething towards the gut health
(33:30):
specialty?
Josh Dech (33:32):
Well, I'd be a little biased, I'd say, for sure, if
you want to learn about the gut,I got a podcast about it.
It's called Reversible, theultimate gut health podcast.
That's reverse able and itreally is.
It's all about the gut, how ourworld interacts and how our gut
interacts with our world.
That's a great one.
Just to learn the basics.
And once you start to understandthe importance of the gut, to
(33:54):
really consider in your practicethe medications you're giving
or prescribing or are fillingfor people.
Can there be some coaching orconsulting that you do inside of
that and talk to your patients,say, hey, I know your doctor
recommended these antacids thatwe have, whatever it may be, but
here's my thoughts on this thisacid reflux.
The primary cause for acidreflux is actually low stomach
acid.
(34:14):
So do we really want tosuppress it further?
And really diving into thesethings and educating your
patients as you're learning,because realistically, you got
to be one hour of educationahead of them to be able to help
them take the next steps.
That's it and your medicalbackground.
I do nothing related toparamedics now, but my education
has been a huge branch.
(34:35):
I wanted to credibility, peopleactually listening, because I
have a formal education.
But two it's allowed me to makeconnections on a different
level.
I can identify the pathologies,just like you guys can.
You can identify the rootcauses rather than just the
symptom treatment, and toeducate your patients that, hey,
these medications are symptommanagement.
That's all it is.
But if you're interested in theroot cause, maybe I can help you
(34:58):
.
And then you get to guide themthrough that process and talk
about these diseases where theyare on set, what they're doing,
what their lifestyle is like thesmoking and drinking.
If they don't care, fine, butat least they're educated and
can make that choice themselves,rather than being robbed of the
choice by being givenmedications without question.
Dr. Tamar (35:14):
Thank you.
Thank you for sharing that,josh, and I'd like to also thank
you for being my guest on thePivoting Pharmacy of
Nutrigenomics podcast.
It was a pleasure to talk withyou.
Josh Dech (35:24):
It's been a pleasure to be here tomorrow.
Thank you so much for having me.
Dr. Tamar (35:27):
You're welcome as we draw close to the end of this
enlightening journey through theintricate worlds of DNA, gut
bacteria and personal health ofJosh Jack.
I want you to remember thisyour DNA may play a role in your
gut health, but it does notdefine you or your patients.
That's all I have for you today.
If any part of thisconversation about gut health
(35:48):
sparked interest or resonatedwith you, I'd love to hear your
thoughts.
Your five star review andcomments can guide others on a
similar journey.
Subscribe, rate and downloadthis episode to ensure you're
always in the loop.
Now coming up next week on theshow, we're talking about the
potential to revolutionize thefuture of pharmacy with genomics
and cannabis.
(36:09):
This deep dive will allow youto reimagine the impact you can
make on healthcare, empoweringyour patients and thriving in
your practice without beingconfined by traditional pharmacy
.
So tune in next Friday.
Until then, always remember inyour journey as a healthcare
professional, always raise thescript on health, because
together we can bring healthcareto higher levels.
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