November 17, 2023 • 25 mins
Can you imagine the power of understanding your unique genetic profile to manage health conditions? Discover the interaction of medications and nutrition with our genes and the crucial role of pharmacists in guaranteeing accurate medication dosage.
Are you struggling with chronic pain and feel like you’ve tried everything to find relief? Are you frustrated by medications that don't seem to help or even make you feel worse?
By the time you finish listening, you’ll discover:
•Why your genetics play a role in how you experience pain and the medications you're prescribed.
•Three tips to help manage your pain through nutrition, movement and community.
•A free workbook to help you build healthy habits and self-care routines.
CONNECT WITH JESSICA MAY TANG, OTR/L, CEAS, PAMS
Website: jessicamaytang.co
Email: jessicamaytang@gmail.com
Listen to the breaking free from chronic pain podcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tamar (00:00):
Meanwhile, the patients have all these side effects and
they're still going through painand it's not being managed and
they're miserable.
So just knowing this off thebat could save the patient from
so much misery.
Jessica (00:16):
Hello everyone.
It's Jessica here.
I have another really wonderfulinterview to share with you
guys.
Again, just as a quick reminder, these interviews are meant to
help you decide and figure outfor yourself whether the people
being interviewed feel safe toyou or not, whether you have
access to them or you're able towork with them or not.
(00:38):
You want to pay attention towhether this person makes you
feel safe, to help you feel safewithin your own body, so that
you can start learning how toempower yourself.
So I just wanted to remind youof that while you listen to
today's episode.
So today we are going to betalking to Dr Tamar Lawful.
She is a distinguished doctorof pharmacy and esteemed
(01:02):
graduate of the University ofthe Sciences from Philadelphia
College of Pharmacy.
She's a licensed pharmacist inCalifornia, new Jersey and
Pennsylvania.
So just as a quick recap interms of what you're going to
hear about in today's interview,you're going to be hearing
about how medications affect ourgenes and how genes affect
medications in order to helpthem work or not work.
(01:26):
You're going to hear about whatpharmacists actually do behind
the scenes to ensure accuratedosage of the medications that
you are prescribed from doctors.
They do a ton that I think mostpeople don't know about.
You're also going to hear aboutwhat traditional insurance does
not cover yet and why thisspecific thing can be the answer
(01:48):
to all the side effects and thenon-results that you are seeing
from certain medications thatyou're taking.
How decreased kidney functionaffects toxicity in your system
and creates two more sideeffects from your medications.
You're going to hear about howgenetic enzymes affect what
medications work for you and thetesting procedure that most
(02:10):
doctors don't even know aboutthat you can do just one time to
learn about what medications doand do not work specifically
for you.
And then she also focuses onempowering her clients to take
responsibility for their ownhealth and well-being.
And then she goes into hownutrigenomic testing and
coaching with her customizedmeal plans can actually help you
(02:34):
get off your medications andimprove your health.
And then Tamar also shares anexample based on her own
nutrigenomic testing results.
Then you want to make sure youstay until the very end, because
she shares her top tips forchronic pain.
And then she also shares a freegift that she has prepared for
all of us listeners to thispodcast, so make sure you stay
(02:56):
until the very end.
Now let's continue theintroduction to Dr Tamar Lawful.
As a licensed advanced practicepharmacist with certifications
in pharmacogenomics andnutritional genomics, Dr.
Lawful expertly leads as theCEO and founder of Life Balance.
Incorporated by seamlesslyblending her passion for
(03:19):
nutrition, genomics and pharmacy, she embarks on a bold mission
to de-prescribe unnecessarymedications, champion nutrition,
inspire healthy lifestyletransformations and emphasize
the significance of self-love tohelp women regain and preserve
their health.
Dr Lawful's signature InH erGlow Health Coaching program
(03:42):
harnesses the power ofnutrigenomics and
pharmacogenomics to tailorclient goals, resulting in
remarkable success stories.
She has assisted numerous womensuffering from diabetes,
hypertension and hormonaldisorders and not only losing
weight, but also discontinuingmedications.
(04:02):
Dr Lawful is a dedicatedconsultant who specializes in
assisting pharmacists inestablishing their own
integrative health and wellnesspharmacy practices.
She provides comprehensivetraining in nutritional genomics
and the implementation of herunique signature protocol.
By placing a strong emphasis onnutrition and lifestyle
modifications, Dr.
(04:23):
Lawful aims to magnify theinfluence of health care
professionals on enhancingpatient outcomes and overall
well-being.
Based in California, shecherishes her roles as a mother
and enjoys playing the guitar,indulging in spa days, savoring
food and embracing the beachlife.
Alright, without further ado,let's get into our interview
(04:44):
with Dr.
Tamar Lawful.
Hi, Tamar, thank you so muchfor coming on the show.
I really appreciate you.
Tamar (04:52):
Hi Jessica.
Thanks for inviting me andhaving me.
Jessica (04:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
I am really excited about ourtalk today because even when we
first met and this was monthsago you blew my mind with what
you can do and it's going to beso helpful for the chronic pain
community, so I'm really excitedto have you on.
Why don't we start with havingyou share your story of how you
came to do what you do?
Oh, wow.
Tamar (05:16):
Well, yeah, I'm a doctor of pharmacy and going on 19
years now.
About five years ago, I got tothe point in my career where I
felt like I wasn't reallyhelping my patients.
You know, yes, I looked attheir medications to make sure
it was the right one If they haddiabetes they're on the right
medications and help the doctorsadjust the doses to make sure
(05:41):
they didn't have side effectsand there were no drug
interactions.
And I was in a hospital setting.
But these patients, they willstill come back 30 days later,
60 days later.
Their health wasn't improvingand the only solution was to add
on more medications, and thatdidn't sit right with me.
Something else had to be done.
(06:01):
So at that point I startedsearching, trying to think of
what else can I do as ahealthcare professional to truly
help people get better?
And that led me to nutrition,which led me to genomics, which
and then, combined, is neutralgenomics, which is a study of
how food affects our genes.
(06:21):
And then there's alsopharmacogenomics, so it's how
medications affect your genes orimpact your genes can actually
have on how medications work.
So it was gold, like that wasthe solution, to combine the
pharmacogenomics and the neutralgenomics.
(06:42):
So I created my company, lifeBalance, where I serve as a
health coach to women withcertain chronic illnesses like
diabetes and high blood pressure, and, of course, they have pain
as well, related to theseconditions and the poor
nutrition that they actuallyhave.
So with my health coachingprogram, I'm able to help these
(07:04):
women follow their DNA.
You know their DNA is a guideto.
It actually tells them how theycan get better, and I'm able to
do that through those genetictesting and provide them a guide
to better health.
Jessica (07:19):
Amazing.
Can you help us understand howgenes and the drugs, drug
interactions in the genes andhow nutrition can also affect?
I'm guessing you're talkingabout gene expression.
Tamar (07:34):
Yes, definitely gene expression.
So when it comes to themedications, we have systems and
processes that go on in a body.
So when you take a medication,it has to be broken down into
the active ingredient for somemedications.
But we have enzymes in ourbodies that do that and,
depending on your genetic makeupor expression, you may not have
(07:59):
that enzyme, may not be workingappropriately to convert the
medication into the active form.
For example, if you take a painmedication and your body can't
convert it to the active form ofthat medication, guess what's
going to happen?
You're still going to be inpain.
The medication is not going towork, right.
So what's going to happen?
You're going to take yourdoctor, who's going to prescribe
(08:19):
more and more and more of it,and you know what?
The only thing you're going toget is more side effects.
So genetically, you may not beable to convert these
medications into active form,though it's not going to be
effective.
And also, on the other hand,your conversion process might
(08:40):
happen so fast that you get moreof the medication in your
system than you should.
So you're potentially gettingdouble the dose that someone
that has a normal processing ofthat medication gets, and that's
another way you can haveincreased side effects too.
So the genetic test willactually tell you that your
(09:00):
genetic expression based on yourgenetic expression, this
medication will not be safe foryou.
You're more likely to get sideeffects from it, and but the
best part of the results is thatit tells you what the
alternative is, what would work.
So this would be a great toolfor physicians when they want to
initially prescribe medicationsfor their patients.
(09:21):
There won't be any guessing,there won't be any errors and
reduced drug side effects,because right away they know
what the best option is fortheir patients.
And you asked about thenutrition part of it.
Jessica (09:39):
Yeah, but hang on.
So, going to the medicationpart, I was just thinking that,
for example, someone like me yes, we can say that, ok, I'm
smaller, but if you were to giveme a certain dosage of a pain
medication, my reaction to itwould be very different from
someone else's, whether they'rebigger or their genes are
(10:00):
different.
Is that right, yeah?
Tamar (10:02):
So various factors play a part in how we respond to
medications.
One of them is a gene.
Also our body weight male,female our renal function, our
kidneys working appropriately ornot.
So there are so many factorsthat go into that and that's
what pharmacists look at.
We look at all of that kind oflike a side note.
So people might wonder, nursesmight wonder oh, why has it
(10:24):
taken a pharmacist so long toverify this medication in a
hospital setting?
That's because we have to checkeverything.
We're checking your kidneyfunction, your liver function,
your EKG, to make sure yourheartbeat is regular and that
nothing is prolonged to preventany potential side effects, or
(10:45):
even deadly side effects canhappen for medications if we
don't do those checks.
So there's a variety of things,but when it comes to weight,
it's mainly a huge impact whenwe're talking about pediatric
patients and the elderly when itcomes to weight based on
medications.
Jessica (11:07):
Oh my gosh, that was gold.
Because I don't think a lot ofpeople understand what
pharmacists do.
I think most people literallythink that pharmacists look at
the label of the drug, theycount the pills, they put it in
the bottle and then they give itto you over the counter.
But you guys are doing so manythings behind the scenes, like,
for example, liver function orkidney function.
(11:29):
Kidneys are used to filter outtoxins, right?
So if your kidneys are notoperating as well you said
kidney earlier right?
Yes, yeah, so like if yourkidneys are not functioning at
their best, what happens then?
Tamar (11:42):
for example, so some medications are removed through
the kidneys, right?
So if your kidneys are notremoving the medications
appropriately, it's going toaccumulate in your body and
you're going to have more sideeffects.
So for example, say it's amedication like gabapentin
Mm-hmm.
Um, that has to be dose basedon someone's renal function.
(12:06):
If they're getting like 600milligrams three times a day and
they're they have poor renalfunction, they're going to feel
horrible, they're going toprobably be tired and groggy all
the time and so they're justmore prone to having those side
effects because they might onlybe getting 600 milligrams, but
(12:28):
to them and I might actually be1200 milligrams.
Their bodies just holding on toit and you take more and they're
holding on to that.
Jessica (12:36):
Yeah.
Tamar (12:38):
Okay.
Jessica (12:38):
Another thing that I think a lot of people don't know
is that the medications that wetake is not the active thing
that is being used in our bodies, that's meant to do what it's
supposed to do.
Tamar (12:51):
That's right For the yeah , for some medications.
So for the most part,medications have to be converted
into another form.
When you take it, it goesthrough, the liver has to be
broken down and liver into theactive form.
So that's why you finddifferent versions of
medications, like there is.
(13:11):
They might have Claritin, whichit has to be converted into the
active form Right.
Then they've created anothermedication which is active form
of Claritin.
So for people who may begenetically impacted, they may
not have that enzyme to convertClaritin into an active form,
then that medication that isalready the active form will be
(13:33):
the best one for them.
But no one really knows thatuntil they get tested right.
It's just, oh, trial and error.
Let me see if this one worksand see what happens.
But yeah, or even some painmedications, they have to be
converted into the active formto actually take its effect.
Jessica (13:51):
See this is like it's mind blowing, like I don't even.
I'm in healthcare and I don'teven know all the full details
of this.
So can you imagine the patientsthat we're treating, the
clients that we're seeing everysingle day?
It's like this is valuableinformation and doctors don't.
It's not that they're nottrying to teach us.
It's that a lot of times theirdoctors don't have time to
explain all the things thatthey're doing, to explain all of
(14:12):
this right?
So they just kind of have theblanket statement of we'll just
try this medication first andsee if it works and then, if it
doesn't, we'll try a differentone.
Tamar (14:22):
Meanwhile the patients have all these side effects and
they're still going through painand it's not being managed and
they're miserable, you know.
So just knowing this off thebat could save the patient from
so much misery.
And the medication thatspecifically comes to my mind is
coding Like coding is notactive form of the pain
(14:43):
medication.
It has to be converted intomorphine, you know.
So we have codeine out there,we have morphine out there.
I don't see coding use thatoften, unless it's like a
combination product like thehydrocodone.
Jessica (14:56):
Right.
Tamar (14:58):
And in Tylenol for the like, the more co-opercase.
If it's percocet, it will beoxycodone.
But, but yeah, so someone'staking codeine and they're not
getting.
They're not getting any relieffrom pain.
It's possible that their enzymegenetically they have the
enzyme that's just notconverting it well into morphine
(15:18):
, and morphine will be a betteroption.
But we can do the test and findthat out before we even order
the codeine, right?
Jessica (15:26):
Yes, so are you telling me also that the testing for
these kinds of enzymes to seewhether you even have the
enzymes to break down the drugsthat are the medications that
the doctors are prescribing isthat not testable in like a
regular blood test or in aregular doctor's office?
Tamar (15:43):
No, and you know, I don't believe a lot of doctors are
aware that they can do it.
I don't believe a lot ofdoctors are aware of it.
So it's a.
It's a cheek.
It can be a blood sample, butit can also be a saliva sample.
So you just do a cheek swap andpatients can do it in a
doctor's office.
They can do it.
The test kit can be sent totheir home, my clients.
(16:04):
The kit goes to their home andthey just do the swab in their
cheek both cheeks and ship itoff to the lab, get the results.
I get the results and I make anappointment with them and go
over it with them.
It's a one-time thing.
You never need to do it again.
The results are not gonna beany different.
It's one time and they can takethat report with them, show
(16:26):
their doctors or I'll send itover to their physician's office
if they wanna have that on fileand they'll know what
medications will be the best fortheir client, their patients.
Jessica (16:37):
Right, amazing.
So for someone who has chronicpain let's say, someone who has
chronic pain, maybe they'vealready gone through the ringer
with a bunch of different kindsof pain medications and none of
them seem to be working theywould be perfect, like the
perfect kind of person to reachout to you.
I mean even better, as someonewho's doing it preventatively
right, without having to be puton all the medications and go
(16:59):
through really bad side effectsand things like that.
But if someone has tried abunch of different medications,
pain medications and they'rewondering why don't the ones
that I take work, then theywould be reaching out to you and
then tell us the process ofwhat happens when they reach out
to you.
Tamar (17:16):
Yeah.
So when they reach out to me, Ido take a full medication and
medical history with them.
In my practice I don't acceptinsurance, so my service is cash
pay.
It's essential to be trickybecause their insurance may not
cover it and if they get it donewith, say, I did accept
insurance, they got it done withme.
(17:36):
Most insurance companies want amedical reason why they're
getting this test done, versus,oh, I'm just curious, I wanna
see what it is.
So most of my clients do cometo me because, yeah, they are
curious, they've been on a lotof medications and now they just
wanna know.
They want this report.
So I do take a full medicalhistory, medication history, if
(18:00):
I notice anything, because mypharmacist mind is never turned
off.
That's the beauty of my serviceis that I'm a pharmacist and a
health coach and a nutritionalgenomic specialist.
So, wearing all those hats andmy mind is working when I review
these charts and speak withthese with my clients by the way
, I call them clients, notpatients, because my goal is to
(18:21):
empower them to take control oftheir health and when someone
believes that they're a patient,it's like the ownership to cure
them or heal them, make themfeel better, is on that
practitioner.
But my goal is to empower themto take accountability for the
changes and actions and choicesthey make in their life when it
(18:43):
comes to their health.
So I tell them they're myclients, not my patients.
I just wanted to let you know,because I do use the term
clients a lot.
So I'll go over the informationwith them and if I see anything
that's a red flag, I do reachout to their physicians and let
them know.
I'm like you know druginteractions or medication
section and be used together, soforth.
(19:03):
So the tests once they sign upfor my service, they get the
test within three days, threebusiness days.
It takes about three weeks,three to four weeks to get the
results and in my portal thecompany lets me know the results
are in.
I review those results and thenI contact the client for an
(19:24):
appointment and I go over thoseresults with them.
It's you know.
Oh, I skip the part where theyget the test sent to them and
then to their home.
They don't have to go to thedoctor's office, they don't have
to wait in line.
Or you know, you have anappointment at eight o'clock and
the doctor doesn't see youuntil 9.30.
And so it's sent straight totheir house and they can do this
(19:44):
, while if they're not, theyhave questions on how to do it.
I'm available to walk themthrough it and in three, four
weeks they get those results andI go over it with them.
Jessica (19:56):
And then what is like an example of a client that
you've worked with, who was ableto work with you beyond just
like the getting the testresults?
Tamar (20:07):
Well, you know, for the for the pharmacogenomic testing,
I just go over the test resultswith them.
But an interesting story I havewith one of the clients I had
was she took the test becauseshe just wanted to know.
She suffered from depressionfor years and when she got the
(20:28):
test results she pretty muchcried because she realized all
the medications that were listedunder.
Now this test, like I said,it's it's it's pain, but it also
tells you other othermedication, other medications
that are used for other things.
So for her was anti depressants, which some are used for pain
as well.
And she cried because in thesection that told her the
(20:53):
medications to avoid, those wereall the medications that they
gave her and each time that theyput her and switch her to one
of those medications, she endedup in a hospital.
Oh my gosh.
So she said, if I had had thistest from the beginning, I would
.
It would have saved me thosehospital visits and from the
beginning the doctors wouldn'tbe able to put me on something
(21:16):
that would have worked for oneand for two.
Avoid it, these side effectsand her bad experience with
these medications.
Jessica (21:25):
And the psycho emotional trauma of being in and
out of the hospital and feelinglike, oh my gosh, nothing's
working.
All they're trying all thesedifferent medications and I'm
landing in the hospital everysingle time.
It's traumatic, right,Definitely is.
Tamar (21:39):
And unfortunately, you know when, when people
experience things like that,they lose their trust in the
healthcare system, in theirpractitioners.
So this is a great way also forthat trust to be built and for
patients to realize and feellike, okay, my, my physician can
really help me and they're justnot guessing.
(22:00):
Because when that happens theyfeel like there is just they're
just guessing what they'resupposed to be on, you know.
Jessica (22:06):
Yes, yeah, and there's so many, so many people who
think of their healthcareprofessionals, like you were
saying, like Well, they're thehealthcare professional they're
supposed to fix me, right?
I see these kinds of and I willcall them patients in my job as
a, as a home health OT.
Yes, and and I think this iswhy you and I clicked to when we
(22:29):
first met was because we'reboth so passionate about
empowering human beings to takefull responsibility of their own
health and well being.
We do have that power.
We do have that responsibility.
Tamar (22:41):
Right, and I talk to other pharmacists, I tell them,
you know, our, our role of anyhealthcare practitioner is just
not to tell a patient that, hey,you need to get healthy, you
need to eat better, you need toexercise.
We have to show them how to doit.
You have to show them how to doit.
Jessica (23:01):
Yes, my favorite one for the people with chronic pain
is when the doctor is like youneed to reduce your stress
levels.
Okay, bye, what does that evenmean?
How do I do that, right, yeah,yeah.
So it's like people like youand I we're acting more like the
guides, like we're not here totell you what to do with your
(23:24):
bodies and your minds, right,but we're here to guide you so
that you can feel empoweredwithin your own body and mind
again.
Tamar (23:31):
Because once they know, they know, they'll know what to
do.
And, surprisingly, a lot ofpeople really don't know.
They don't know.
They know there's was eatbetter.
There's so much information outthere, it gets overwhelming.
It definitely is overwhelming.
So how are they supposed toknow exactly what they're
supposed to do?
Jessica (23:48):
Right and then okay, so let's segue into, like the, the
nutrigenomics part, since thatwas a nice little segue there.
Explain the nutrigenomics part.
Tamar (23:58):
The nutrigenomics is is my heart.
I absolutely love it as usingit as a tool to help patients
get off medications and improvetheir health.
So, with the nutrigenomicsreports, again going back to
that's how your food affectsyour genes, right?
So, genetically, our what weeat can affect the expression of
(24:23):
our genes.
So, for example, if you are, orvice versa.
So, for example, I'll share mypersonal experience.
I am, I'm, deficient in vitaminD.
I've been as far as my wholelife I've been deficient in the
vitamin D, no matter what I do.
You know my level is at 17 andit stays there, you know.
(24:43):
So vitamin D is important forbone health.
You know it can even affectmood.
So depression, menstrual cycles, this it's involved in so many
aspects because it's a hormone.
It's actually a hormone.
So my genetic test gave me theanswer as to why I'm always low
in vitamin D.
So it turns out, going back tothese enzymes that convert
(25:03):
active into inactive or inactive.
To active, my enzyme doesn't doit fast enough.
It won't convert D3 into theactive metabolite of vitamin D
that we actually.
That actually gives us thehealth benefits that we need.
You know it will convert it,but very small amounts.
So, as a result of that, Ican't take the vitamin D amount
(25:26):
that the average person takes.
I need higher, significantlyhigher amounts of vitamin D to
get my levels up.
You know so.
Understanding why my vitamin Dlevels were low helped me work
with my provider to my physicianto say, okay, let's think of
what's our regimen going to be.
This is what we need to do, andin three months we'll recheck
(25:48):
and see how that goes.
You know so.
It's definitely a useful tool toidentify the cause of certain
issues that we might have withour health.
So when you get thisnutrigenomic report, it actually
tells you pinpoints, what yourmain areas of focus need to be
(26:09):
with your health.
You know so.
For example, it might say bloodpressure is a major, is
potentially a major issue foryou.
So it's not diagnosing you ifany diseases, or it's just
saying, based on these geneticexpression, your body does not
regulate blood pressure well asa result.
(26:30):
One, you need to focus oneating these type of foods to
make sure your blood pressurealways stays in check.
Two, you need to focus on thesetype of lifestyle changes.
This is the best type of stressmanagement for you, and it will
list the yoga Pilates you know,walking, whatever it is.
When it comes to exercise, itwill say avoid this type of
(26:56):
exercise because of X, y and Z.
So for me, I love boot camptraining Right.
It gets my adrenaline going, Ifeel like I've accomplished a
lot, you know, and I build mystrength.
But, based on my personalprofile, I should not be doing
high intensity intervaltrainings mainly, but twice a
week.
The rest of the time I need tobe walking or doing yoga or
(27:21):
swimming, though that type ofphysical activity will help me
burn fat and lose weight betterthan high intensity workouts.
So it even gets that specificand then, on top of that, it
will tell you the type ofsupplements you may need.
So when I coach my clientsthrough their nutritional part
(27:46):
of things, I am a huge advocatefor the foods that you eat,
giving you your nutrients, andthere are some basic supplements
that we may need in general.
But I really try to work withthem to change their eating
habits so they can get thenutrients and vitamins that they
really need from foods, versushaving to buy all these
(28:07):
supplements, because thatdefeats the purpose of what I'm
trying to do, which is get themoff medications, and I don't
want to switch out theirmedications for supplements.
Jessica (28:15):
Yeah, take out these five pills but take these other
five supplements instead.
Right, right, right, right,okay.
And then can we go back to yourexample with the vitamin D.
What kinds of did it tell youwhat kinds of foods that you
needed to focus more on eating?
That works for your genomics,yeah, so with depending on.
Tamar (28:34):
So I had an issue with oxidative stress and what else
Oxidative stress really stuckout to me because it made so
much sense with everything thatwas going on with me.
So with oxidative stress youwant to do, healthy fats you
want to do.
I have a lot of food allergiesas well, which plays a.
Oxidative stress plays a rolein that as well.
(28:56):
My body is constantly in astate of inflammation and that,
by the way, leads into pain aswell.
Right, so I noticed, when I'meating better, I don't have my
joint pain in my knees when I'meating the healthy fats and the
carbs that are what we call, not, that are low glycemic, so
they're not going to spike myblood sugar really high after I
(29:18):
eat them.
So, like sweet potatoes or goodsquash, and so vegetables pretty
much you know our carvegetables or carbs, and a lot
of people don't realize thatthey don't see veggies as
carbohydrates and they are sohealthy fats, the vegetables,
the broccoli, the spits, thebroccoli, the spinach, the
asparagus onions Now, I don'tlike onions lesser cooked, so
(29:40):
that's fine, there's stillonions and I cook them.
Fish, you know.
And then, when it comes to tomeats, you want to do the
pastures, organic grass, fat orpastures meats, because they're
a healthier source and you get alot more vitamins and nutrients
(30:01):
from them than you would theother sources of meat if you, if
you are a meat eater.
So those were some of thethings that they that were
recommended for me.
When it came to the oxidativestress part of things, yeah,
it's right, just right there inyour results.
Jessica (30:17):
It's all part of the results that you get.
Tamar (30:19):
It's all right there just written out for you.
And then, with my clients, Itake it a step further.
So once I get their nutritiontest results, I set them up with
a meal plan that actuallymatches their genetic test
results.
So their test results will tellthem so the test tells them the
top three things they need toreally focus on to towards
(30:39):
health improvement, and the onethat's the highest priority.
There's a company that isassociated with the genetic
testing company.
They do meal plans.
It will link their meal plan tothat top priority based on a
genetic test, and it has all thefoods in there that they need
to eat and delicious recipes.
So then my patient, my clients,get that meal plan and whether
(31:04):
they use it or not, it's up tothem.
They don't have to do the exactrecipes that they don't want to
, but it's there and it givesthem an idea of all the types of
foods that they can eat.
That's better than McDonald'sor Burger King cross-trainers.
Jessica (31:19):
And all the different kinds of recipes available to
them too, using those specificfood items.
Can you share a little bit moreabout?
Let's see what about your topone to three tips for someone
with chronic pain.
Tamar (31:34):
Oh, my top one to three tips would be well, definitely,
you need to have a painmanagement plan, so that's going
to involve working with yourdoctor to make sure that they
can get to the root cause ofyour pain, and that might
involve different treatmentoptions like physical therapy,
(31:54):
medications, acupuncture and alot of people use a massage and,
as we mentioned earlier, stresscan bring on a lot of pain, so
stress reduction shoulddefinitely be part of that pain
management plan, and it mightseem counterintuitive.
My second tip, but it's to stayactive.
(32:16):
I know it can be difficult whenyou're in pain to be active,
but every little bit counts.
Every little bit counts, andthe more you do it, the more
endurance you'll build and theeasier it will be, and there are
activities that can be lowimpact.
Like I mentioned earlier, I hadbad knees, so swimming is a low
(32:38):
impact activity and be greatfor people with bad knees, and
yoga is a good option as well,and part of that staying active
and maintaining your healthylifestyle definitely involves
what you eat, your nutrition,because if you're not having a
(32:59):
well balanced diet or nutrition,you're going to be lacking in
certain vitamins, and thedeficiency in those vitamins can
also lead to pain.
So that's something important toconsider.
It all ties in together andalso, along with the healthy
lifestyle, sleep.
So a lot falls under thehealthy lifestyle part of things
(33:22):
.
But you take one step at a time, a little bit each day, add on
something else the next day andbefore you know it, it's going
to be part of your lifestyleregularly.
You're not going to think twiceabout it, it's just going to be
what you do.
And my third tip would be toget a support group.
Get a support group.
So I'm sure there are paingroups out there, support groups
(33:44):
out there.
So it's good to be able toconnect to other people that can
relate to you, to know thatyou're not alone in what you're
feeling and what you'reexperiencing.
And if you're one of thosepeople that took the
pharmacogenomic test and you canshare that with your support
group, but then you're helpingeverybody.
You know you get that support,the emotional support, the
(34:08):
mental support and learn ways tocope and cope with the
challenges of pain management.
Jessica (34:14):
Ooh, that is so good.
You mentioned sleep, with whicha lot of people actually forget
to think about.
I mean, with pain it's hard,right, sleep, not great sleep
and pain.
And then I love that you talkedabout the connection piece
feeling connected and belongingwith other people.
That has a huge impact on painand depression and anxiety,
(34:36):
which also tend to go hand inhand with chronic pain.
And then your fourth tip,obviously, is to get tested with
you to understand what is goingon, especially for those of you
guys who are taking so manydifferent kinds of medications
and having side effects that arenot great, like work with
tomorrow.
Please, I beg of you, okay,great.
(34:56):
And then in terms of your, Ithink you said that you had a
freebie that you wanted to sharewith everybody listening.
That would be helpful for themin terms of healthy lifestyle.
I think it was yes there.
Tamar (35:09):
You know, when I began my business, I found and start
working with clients.
I found that the the root causeof a lot of the problems that
they were having was the factthat they were not put in
themselves first.
They weren't doing a lot ofself care and taking care of
themselves.
So I have a workbook that Icreated for those who feel that
(35:39):
recognize that they do need theself care healthy habits, for
it's a self care workbook.
So within that workbook I'mgiving you it's kind of homework
, because self care is differentfor everyone, like what is self
care to me is different withself care to you, right, jessica
?
And for the next person.
So this workbook is designed tohelp you find, discover what
(36:02):
you need for self care, becausesometimes we don't know.
For example, one of my clients.
You know what she needed forself care.
It was a shower to begin in herday.
So she worked from home.
So she was just get up, havebreakfast, get on her computer
and start working, but she felthorrible the whole day.
So in our group coaching Iworked with her to figure out
(36:25):
what it is.
What, what can you start with?
What do you want?
What do you feel you need thatshower changed.
Her whole day is set, herroutine is that, her mood for
the entire day, and from thereshe had a huge transformation in
her train of thought and hermotivation to even get healthy.
(36:45):
Just taking a shower somethingthat we do, we all do every day
but for her, doing that at thebeginning of the day made a huge
difference and that was part ofher self care routine.
So the workbook is designed toto help you discover what it is
that you need in your self careroutine so that you can get on
(37:05):
the track.
So it's called healthy habitsHappy life for women on the path
to wellness.
Jessica (37:12):
I love it.
I love all the water referencesto.
I'm a.
I'm a water baby.
I grew up in the water, soswimming is my jam and taking
showers is definitely one of myfavorite parts of the day.
So, yeah, so that water can beso cleansing right, it's almost
like she needed just like thatcleanse to like get a fresh
(37:33):
start.
It's like, okay, this is myhome life, and then I take a
shower and then I start my workday.
Like it's like that was thething that differentiated the
two parts of her life, right?
So many people needed thatdifferentiation during COVID and
the pandemic, right?
Having that separation has beenreally important.
This has been fantastic.
(37:55):
Thank you so much for sharingall of your knowledge.
You shared so much with ustoday and I think there's so
many, so many bits ofinformation that lay people like
we don't understand.
We're not farmers, right, so wereally do it like we didn't
know these things right.
So I hope the listeners todaycan get a lot of insight in
terms, in terms of what'shappening actually in the
pharmacist's office downstairsat your doctor's office, you got
(38:18):
CVS and Walgreens and tounderstand how your medications
and yet the way that you eat andthe self care activities that
you participate in can reallyaffect your pain levels, can
really affect your well being,your psycho, emotional health,
all the things right.
Thank you so much for your timetoday.
I really appreciate you.
Tamar (38:40):
You're welcome, jessica it's been a pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
Jessica (38:45):
Alright, you guys.
I hope you enjoyed thatinterview with Dr Tamara Lawful
as much as I enjoyed talking toher.
She's truly.
I'm just really grateful to bemeeting so many kind hearted,
knowledgeable and generous humanbeings who really care about
empowering their people to feellike they have control and to
(39:10):
feel like they have the power tochange their lives and their
well being and their health.
So be sure to check out herwork.
I'm going to, of course, puther website in the show
description, so make sure youscroll down to find that, and
then her freebie, her workbookon self care, is also going to
be linked down below as well.
(39:31):
Next week we have Dr Brookejoining us.
She is a chiropractor here.
Her business is called Fresnofamily wellness and she offers
yet another perspective onhealing chronic pain, this time
in regards to expecting and newand current mothers, as well as
in pediatrics as well.
(39:52):
So stay tuned for that one aswell, and I'll catch you again
next week.
Thank you, as always, forlistening.
Have a great day.
Bye, bye.
Meanwhile, the patients have all these side effects and
they're still going through painand it's not being managed and
they're miserable.
So just knowing this off thebat could save the patient from
so much misery.
Jessica (00:16):
Hello everyone.
It's Jessica here.
I have another really wonderfulinterview to share with you
guys.
Again, just as a quick reminder, these interviews are meant to
help you decide and figure outfor yourself whether the people
being interviewed feel safe toyou or not, whether you have
access to them or you're able towork with them or not.
(00:38):
You want to pay attention towhether this person makes you
feel safe, to help you feel safewithin your own body, so that
you can start learning how toempower yourself.
So I just wanted to remind youof that while you listen to
today's episode.
So today we are going to betalking to Dr Tamar Lawful.
She is a distinguished doctorof pharmacy and esteemed
(01:02):
graduate of the University ofthe Sciences from Philadelphia
College of Pharmacy.
She's a licensed pharmacist inCalifornia, new Jersey and
Pennsylvania.
So just as a quick recap interms of what you're going to
hear about in today's interview,you're going to be hearing
about how medications affect ourgenes and how genes affect
medications in order to helpthem work or not work.
(01:26):
You're going to hear about whatpharmacists actually do behind
the scenes to ensure accuratedosage of the medications that
you are prescribed from doctors.
They do a ton that I think mostpeople don't know about.
You're also going to hear aboutwhat traditional insurance does
not cover yet and why thisspecific thing can be the answer
(01:48):
to all the side effects and thenon-results that you are seeing
from certain medications thatyou're taking.
How decreased kidney functionaffects toxicity in your system
and creates two more sideeffects from your medications.
You're going to hear about howgenetic enzymes affect what
medications work for you and thetesting procedure that most
(02:10):
doctors don't even know aboutthat you can do just one time to
learn about what medications doand do not work specifically
for you.
And then she also focuses onempowering her clients to take
responsibility for their ownhealth and well-being.
And then she goes into hownutrigenomic testing and
coaching with her customizedmeal plans can actually help you
(02:34):
get off your medications andimprove your health.
And then Tamar also shares anexample based on her own
nutrigenomic testing results.
Then you want to make sure youstay until the very end, because
she shares her top tips forchronic pain.
And then she also shares a freegift that she has prepared for
all of us listeners to thispodcast, so make sure you stay
(02:56):
until the very end.
Now let's continue theintroduction to Dr Tamar Lawful.
As a licensed advanced practicepharmacist with certifications
in pharmacogenomics andnutritional genomics, Dr.
Lawful expertly leads as theCEO and founder of Life Balance.
Incorporated by seamlesslyblending her passion for
(03:19):
nutrition, genomics and pharmacy, she embarks on a bold mission
to de-prescribe unnecessarymedications, champion nutrition,
inspire healthy lifestyletransformations and emphasize
the significance of self-love tohelp women regain and preserve
their health.
Dr Lawful's signature InH erGlow Health Coaching program
(03:42):
harnesses the power ofnutrigenomics and
pharmacogenomics to tailorclient goals, resulting in
remarkable success stories.
She has assisted numerous womensuffering from diabetes,
hypertension and hormonaldisorders and not only losing
weight, but also discontinuingmedications.
(04:02):
Dr Lawful is a dedicatedconsultant who specializes in
assisting pharmacists inestablishing their own
integrative health and wellnesspharmacy practices.
She provides comprehensivetraining in nutritional genomics
and the implementation of herunique signature protocol.
By placing a strong emphasis onnutrition and lifestyle
modifications, Dr.
(04:23):
Lawful aims to magnify theinfluence of health care
professionals on enhancingpatient outcomes and overall
well-being.
Based in California, shecherishes her roles as a mother
and enjoys playing the guitar,indulging in spa days, savoring
food and embracing the beachlife.
Alright, without further ado,let's get into our interview
(04:44):
with Dr.
Tamar Lawful.
Hi, Tamar, thank you so muchfor coming on the show.
I really appreciate you.
Tamar (04:52):
Hi Jessica.
Thanks for inviting me andhaving me.
Jessica (04:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
I am really excited about ourtalk today because even when we
first met and this was monthsago you blew my mind with what
you can do and it's going to beso helpful for the chronic pain
community, so I'm really excitedto have you on.
Why don't we start with havingyou share your story of how you
came to do what you do?
Oh, wow.
Tamar (05:16):
Well, yeah, I'm a doctor of pharmacy and going on 19
years now.
About five years ago, I got tothe point in my career where I
felt like I wasn't reallyhelping my patients.
You know, yes, I looked attheir medications to make sure
it was the right one If they haddiabetes they're on the right
medications and help the doctorsadjust the doses to make sure
(05:41):
they didn't have side effectsand there were no drug
interactions.
And I was in a hospital setting.
But these patients, they willstill come back 30 days later,
60 days later.
Their health wasn't improvingand the only solution was to add
on more medications, and thatdidn't sit right with me.
Something else had to be done.
(06:01):
So at that point I startedsearching, trying to think of
what else can I do as ahealthcare professional to truly
help people get better?
And that led me to nutrition,which led me to genomics, which
and then, combined, is neutralgenomics, which is a study of
how food affects our genes.
(06:21):
And then there's alsopharmacogenomics, so it's how
medications affect your genes orimpact your genes can actually
have on how medications work.
So it was gold, like that wasthe solution, to combine the
pharmacogenomics and the neutralgenomics.
(06:42):
So I created my company, lifeBalance, where I serve as a
health coach to women withcertain chronic illnesses like
diabetes and high blood pressure, and, of course, they have pain
as well, related to theseconditions and the poor
nutrition that they actuallyhave.
So with my health coachingprogram, I'm able to help these
(07:04):
women follow their DNA.
You know their DNA is a guideto.
It actually tells them how theycan get better, and I'm able to
do that through those genetictesting and provide them a guide
to better health.
Jessica (07:19):
Amazing.
Can you help us understand howgenes and the drugs, drug
interactions in the genes andhow nutrition can also affect?
I'm guessing you're talkingabout gene expression.
Tamar (07:34):
Yes, definitely gene expression.
So when it comes to themedications, we have systems and
processes that go on in a body.
So when you take a medication,it has to be broken down into
the active ingredient for somemedications.
But we have enzymes in ourbodies that do that and,
depending on your genetic makeupor expression, you may not have
(07:59):
that enzyme, may not be workingappropriately to convert the
medication into the active form.
For example, if you take a painmedication and your body can't
convert it to the active form ofthat medication, guess what's
going to happen?
You're still going to be inpain.
The medication is not going towork, right.
So what's going to happen?
You're going to take yourdoctor, who's going to prescribe
(08:19):
more and more and more of it,and you know what?
The only thing you're going toget is more side effects.
So genetically, you may not beable to convert these
medications into active form,though it's not going to be
effective.
And also, on the other hand,your conversion process might
(08:40):
happen so fast that you get moreof the medication in your
system than you should.
So you're potentially gettingdouble the dose that someone
that has a normal processing ofthat medication gets, and that's
another way you can haveincreased side effects too.
So the genetic test willactually tell you that your
(09:00):
genetic expression based on yourgenetic expression, this
medication will not be safe foryou.
You're more likely to get sideeffects from it, and but the
best part of the results is thatit tells you what the
alternative is, what would work.
So this would be a great toolfor physicians when they want to
initially prescribe medicationsfor their patients.
(09:21):
There won't be any guessing,there won't be any errors and
reduced drug side effects,because right away they know
what the best option is fortheir patients.
And you asked about thenutrition part of it.
Jessica (09:39):
Yeah, but hang on.
So, going to the medicationpart, I was just thinking that,
for example, someone like me yes, we can say that, ok, I'm
smaller, but if you were to giveme a certain dosage of a pain
medication, my reaction to itwould be very different from
someone else's, whether they'rebigger or their genes are
(10:00):
different.
Is that right, yeah?
Tamar (10:02):
So various factors play a part in how we respond to
medications.
One of them is a gene.
Also our body weight male,female our renal function, our
kidneys working appropriately ornot.
So there are so many factorsthat go into that and that's
what pharmacists look at.
We look at all of that kind oflike a side note.
So people might wonder, nursesmight wonder oh, why has it
(10:24):
taken a pharmacist so long toverify this medication in a
hospital setting?
That's because we have to checkeverything.
We're checking your kidneyfunction, your liver function,
your EKG, to make sure yourheartbeat is regular and that
nothing is prolonged to preventany potential side effects, or
(10:45):
even deadly side effects canhappen for medications if we
don't do those checks.
So there's a variety of things,but when it comes to weight,
it's mainly a huge impact whenwe're talking about pediatric
patients and the elderly when itcomes to weight based on
medications.
Jessica (11:07):
Oh my gosh, that was gold.
Because I don't think a lot ofpeople understand what
pharmacists do.
I think most people literallythink that pharmacists look at
the label of the drug, theycount the pills, they put it in
the bottle and then they give itto you over the counter.
But you guys are doing so manythings behind the scenes, like,
for example, liver function orkidney function.
(11:29):
Kidneys are used to filter outtoxins, right?
So if your kidneys are notoperating as well you said
kidney earlier right?
Yes, yeah, so like if yourkidneys are not functioning at
their best, what happens then?
Tamar (11:42):
for example, so some medications are removed through
the kidneys, right?
So if your kidneys are notremoving the medications
appropriately, it's going toaccumulate in your body and
you're going to have more sideeffects.
So for example, say it's amedication like gabapentin
Mm-hmm.
Um, that has to be dose basedon someone's renal function.
(12:06):
If they're getting like 600milligrams three times a day and
they're they have poor renalfunction, they're going to feel
horrible, they're going toprobably be tired and groggy all
the time and so they're justmore prone to having those side
effects because they might onlybe getting 600 milligrams, but
(12:28):
to them and I might actually be1200 milligrams.
Their bodies just holding on toit and you take more and they're
holding on to that.
Jessica (12:36):
Yeah.
Tamar (12:38):
Okay.
Jessica (12:38):
Another thing that I think a lot of people don't know
is that the medications that wetake is not the active thing
that is being used in our bodies, that's meant to do what it's
supposed to do.
Tamar (12:51):
That's right For the yeah , for some medications.
So for the most part,medications have to be converted
into another form.
When you take it, it goesthrough, the liver has to be
broken down and liver into theactive form.
So that's why you finddifferent versions of
medications, like there is.
(13:11):
They might have Claritin, whichit has to be converted into the
active form Right.
Then they've created anothermedication which is active form
of Claritin.
So for people who may begenetically impacted, they may
not have that enzyme to convertClaritin into an active form,
then that medication that isalready the active form will be
(13:33):
the best one for them.
But no one really knows thatuntil they get tested right.
It's just, oh, trial and error.
Let me see if this one worksand see what happens.
But yeah, or even some painmedications, they have to be
converted into the active formto actually take its effect.
Jessica (13:51):
See this is like it's mind blowing, like I don't even.
I'm in healthcare and I don'teven know all the full details
of this.
So can you imagine the patientsthat we're treating, the
clients that we're seeing everysingle day?
It's like this is valuableinformation and doctors don't.
It's not that they're nottrying to teach us.
It's that a lot of times theirdoctors don't have time to
explain all the things thatthey're doing, to explain all of
(14:12):
this right?
So they just kind of have theblanket statement of we'll just
try this medication first andsee if it works and then, if it
doesn't, we'll try a differentone.
Tamar (14:22):
Meanwhile the patients have all these side effects and
they're still going through painand it's not being managed and
they're miserable, you know.
So just knowing this off thebat could save the patient from
so much misery.
And the medication thatspecifically comes to my mind is
coding Like coding is notactive form of the pain
(14:43):
medication.
It has to be converted intomorphine, you know.
So we have codeine out there,we have morphine out there.
I don't see coding use thatoften, unless it's like a
combination product like thehydrocodone.
Jessica (14:56):
Right.
Tamar (14:58):
And in Tylenol for the like, the more co-opercase.
If it's percocet, it will beoxycodone.
But, but yeah, so someone'staking codeine and they're not
getting.
They're not getting any relieffrom pain.
It's possible that their enzymegenetically they have the
enzyme that's just notconverting it well into morphine
(15:18):
, and morphine will be a betteroption.
But we can do the test and findthat out before we even order
the codeine, right?
Jessica (15:26):
Yes, so are you telling me also that the testing for
these kinds of enzymes to seewhether you even have the
enzymes to break down the drugsthat are the medications that
the doctors are prescribing isthat not testable in like a
regular blood test or in aregular doctor's office?
Tamar (15:43):
No, and you know, I don't believe a lot of doctors are
aware that they can do it.
I don't believe a lot ofdoctors are aware of it.
So it's a.
It's a cheek.
It can be a blood sample, butit can also be a saliva sample.
So you just do a cheek swap andpatients can do it in a
doctor's office.
They can do it.
The test kit can be sent totheir home, my clients.
(16:04):
The kit goes to their home andthey just do the swab in their
cheek both cheeks and ship itoff to the lab, get the results.
I get the results and I make anappointment with them and go
over it with them.
It's a one-time thing.
You never need to do it again.
The results are not gonna beany different.
It's one time and they can takethat report with them, show
(16:26):
their doctors or I'll send itover to their physician's office
if they wanna have that on fileand they'll know what
medications will be the best fortheir client, their patients.
Jessica (16:37):
Right, amazing.
So for someone who has chronicpain let's say, someone who has
chronic pain, maybe they'vealready gone through the ringer
with a bunch of different kindsof pain medications and none of
them seem to be working theywould be perfect, like the
perfect kind of person to reachout to you.
I mean even better, as someonewho's doing it preventatively
right, without having to be puton all the medications and go
(16:59):
through really bad side effectsand things like that.
But if someone has tried abunch of different medications,
pain medications and they'rewondering why don't the ones
that I take work, then theywould be reaching out to you and
then tell us the process ofwhat happens when they reach out
to you.
Tamar (17:16):
Yeah.
So when they reach out to me, Ido take a full medication and
medical history with them.
In my practice I don't acceptinsurance, so my service is cash
pay.
It's essential to be trickybecause their insurance may not
cover it and if they get it donewith, say, I did accept
insurance, they got it done withme.
(17:36):
Most insurance companies want amedical reason why they're
getting this test done, versus,oh, I'm just curious, I wanna
see what it is.
So most of my clients do cometo me because, yeah, they are
curious, they've been on a lotof medications and now they just
wanna know.
They want this report.
So I do take a full medicalhistory, medication history, if
(18:00):
I notice anything, because mypharmacist mind is never turned
off.
That's the beauty of my serviceis that I'm a pharmacist and a
health coach and a nutritionalgenomic specialist.
So, wearing all those hats andmy mind is working when I review
these charts and speak withthese with my clients by the way
, I call them clients, notpatients, because my goal is to
(18:21):
empower them to take control oftheir health and when someone
believes that they're a patient,it's like the ownership to cure
them or heal them, make themfeel better, is on that
practitioner.
But my goal is to empower themto take accountability for the
changes and actions and choicesthey make in their life when it
(18:43):
comes to their health.
So I tell them they're myclients, not my patients.
I just wanted to let you know,because I do use the term
clients a lot.
So I'll go over the informationwith them and if I see anything
that's a red flag, I do reachout to their physicians and let
them know.
I'm like you know druginteractions or medication
section and be used together, soforth.
(19:03):
So the tests once they sign upfor my service, they get the
test within three days, threebusiness days.
It takes about three weeks,three to four weeks to get the
results and in my portal thecompany lets me know the results
are in.
I review those results and thenI contact the client for an
(19:24):
appointment and I go over thoseresults with them.
It's you know.
Oh, I skip the part where theyget the test sent to them and
then to their home.
They don't have to go to thedoctor's office, they don't have
to wait in line.
Or you know, you have anappointment at eight o'clock and
the doctor doesn't see youuntil 9.30.
And so it's sent straight totheir house and they can do this
(19:44):
, while if they're not, theyhave questions on how to do it.
I'm available to walk themthrough it and in three, four
weeks they get those results andI go over it with them.
Jessica (19:56):
And then what is like an example of a client that
you've worked with, who was ableto work with you beyond just
like the getting the testresults?
Tamar (20:07):
Well, you know, for the for the pharmacogenomic testing,
I just go over the test resultswith them.
But an interesting story I havewith one of the clients I had
was she took the test becauseshe just wanted to know.
She suffered from depressionfor years and when she got the
(20:28):
test results she pretty muchcried because she realized all
the medications that were listedunder.
Now this test, like I said,it's it's it's pain, but it also
tells you other othermedication, other medications
that are used for other things.
So for her was anti depressants, which some are used for pain
as well.
And she cried because in thesection that told her the
(20:53):
medications to avoid, those wereall the medications that they
gave her and each time that theyput her and switch her to one
of those medications, she endedup in a hospital.
Oh my gosh.
So she said, if I had had thistest from the beginning, I would
.
It would have saved me thosehospital visits and from the
beginning the doctors wouldn'tbe able to put me on something
(21:16):
that would have worked for oneand for two.
Avoid it, these side effectsand her bad experience with
these medications.
Jessica (21:25):
And the psycho emotional trauma of being in and
out of the hospital and feelinglike, oh my gosh, nothing's
working.
All they're trying all thesedifferent medications and I'm
landing in the hospital everysingle time.
It's traumatic, right,Definitely is.
Tamar (21:39):
And unfortunately, you know when, when people
experience things like that,they lose their trust in the
healthcare system, in theirpractitioners.
So this is a great way also forthat trust to be built and for
patients to realize and feellike, okay, my, my physician can
really help me and they're justnot guessing.
(22:00):
Because when that happens theyfeel like there is just they're
just guessing what they'resupposed to be on, you know.
Jessica (22:06):
Yes, yeah, and there's so many, so many people who
think of their healthcareprofessionals, like you were
saying, like Well, they're thehealthcare professional they're
supposed to fix me, right?
I see these kinds of and I willcall them patients in my job as
a, as a home health OT.
Yes, and and I think this iswhy you and I clicked to when we
(22:29):
first met was because we'reboth so passionate about
empowering human beings to takefull responsibility of their own
health and well being.
We do have that power.
We do have that responsibility.
Tamar (22:41):
Right, and I talk to other pharmacists, I tell them,
you know, our, our role of anyhealthcare practitioner is just
not to tell a patient that, hey,you need to get healthy, you
need to eat better, you need toexercise.
We have to show them how to doit.
You have to show them how to doit.
Jessica (23:01):
Yes, my favorite one for the people with chronic pain
is when the doctor is like youneed to reduce your stress
levels.
Okay, bye, what does that evenmean?
How do I do that, right, yeah,yeah.
So it's like people like youand I we're acting more like the
guides, like we're not here totell you what to do with your
(23:24):
bodies and your minds, right,but we're here to guide you so
that you can feel empoweredwithin your own body and mind
again.
Tamar (23:31):
Because once they know, they know, they'll know what to
do.
And, surprisingly, a lot ofpeople really don't know.
They don't know.
They know there's was eatbetter.
There's so much information outthere, it gets overwhelming.
It definitely is overwhelming.
So how are they supposed toknow exactly what they're
supposed to do?
Jessica (23:48):
Right and then okay, so let's segue into, like the, the
nutrigenomics part, since thatwas a nice little segue there.
Explain the nutrigenomics part.
Tamar (23:58):
The nutrigenomics is is my heart.
I absolutely love it as usingit as a tool to help patients
get off medications and improvetheir health.
So, with the nutrigenomicsreports, again going back to
that's how your food affectsyour genes, right?
So, genetically, our what weeat can affect the expression of
(24:23):
our genes.
So, for example, if you are, orvice versa.
So, for example, I'll share mypersonal experience.
I am, I'm, deficient in vitaminD.
I've been as far as my wholelife I've been deficient in the
vitamin D, no matter what I do.
You know my level is at 17 andit stays there, you know.
(24:43):
So vitamin D is important forbone health.
You know it can even affectmood.
So depression, menstrual cycles, this it's involved in so many
aspects because it's a hormone.
It's actually a hormone.
So my genetic test gave me theanswer as to why I'm always low
in vitamin D.
So it turns out, going back tothese enzymes that convert
(25:03):
active into inactive or inactive.
To active, my enzyme doesn't doit fast enough.
It won't convert D3 into theactive metabolite of vitamin D
that we actually.
That actually gives us thehealth benefits that we need.
You know it will convert it,but very small amounts.
So, as a result of that, Ican't take the vitamin D amount
(25:26):
that the average person takes.
I need higher, significantlyhigher amounts of vitamin D to
get my levels up.
You know so.
Understanding why my vitamin Dlevels were low helped me work
with my provider to my physicianto say, okay, let's think of
what's our regimen going to be.
This is what we need to do, andin three months we'll recheck
(25:48):
and see how that goes.
You know so.
It's definitely a useful tool toidentify the cause of certain
issues that we might have withour health.
So when you get thisnutrigenomic report, it actually
tells you pinpoints, what yourmain areas of focus need to be
(26:09):
with your health.
You know so.
For example, it might say bloodpressure is a major, is
potentially a major issue foryou.
So it's not diagnosing you ifany diseases, or it's just
saying, based on these geneticexpression, your body does not
regulate blood pressure well asa result.
(26:30):
One, you need to focus oneating these type of foods to
make sure your blood pressurealways stays in check.
Two, you need to focus on thesetype of lifestyle changes.
This is the best type of stressmanagement for you, and it will
list the yoga Pilates you know,walking, whatever it is.
When it comes to exercise, itwill say avoid this type of
(26:56):
exercise because of X, y and Z.
So for me, I love boot camptraining Right.
It gets my adrenaline going, Ifeel like I've accomplished a
lot, you know, and I build mystrength.
But, based on my personalprofile, I should not be doing
high intensity intervaltrainings mainly, but twice a
week.
The rest of the time I need tobe walking or doing yoga or
(27:21):
swimming, though that type ofphysical activity will help me
burn fat and lose weight betterthan high intensity workouts.
So it even gets that specificand then, on top of that, it
will tell you the type ofsupplements you may need.
So when I coach my clientsthrough their nutritional part
(27:46):
of things, I am a huge advocatefor the foods that you eat,
giving you your nutrients, andthere are some basic supplements
that we may need in general.
But I really try to work withthem to change their eating
habits so they can get thenutrients and vitamins that they
really need from foods, versushaving to buy all these
(28:07):
supplements, because thatdefeats the purpose of what I'm
trying to do, which is get themoff medications, and I don't
want to switch out theirmedications for supplements.
Jessica (28:15):
Yeah, take out these five pills but take these other
five supplements instead.
Right, right, right, right,okay.
And then can we go back to yourexample with the vitamin D.
What kinds of did it tell youwhat kinds of foods that you
needed to focus more on eating?
That works for your genomics,yeah, so with depending on.
Tamar (28:34):
So I had an issue with oxidative stress and what else
Oxidative stress really stuckout to me because it made so
much sense with everything thatwas going on with me.
So with oxidative stress youwant to do, healthy fats you
want to do.
I have a lot of food allergiesas well, which plays a.
Oxidative stress plays a rolein that as well.
(28:56):
My body is constantly in astate of inflammation and that,
by the way, leads into pain aswell.
Right, so I noticed, when I'meating better, I don't have my
joint pain in my knees when I'meating the healthy fats and the
carbs that are what we call, not, that are low glycemic, so
they're not going to spike myblood sugar really high after I
(29:18):
eat them.
So, like sweet potatoes or goodsquash, and so vegetables pretty
much you know our carvegetables or carbs, and a lot
of people don't realize thatthey don't see veggies as
carbohydrates and they are sohealthy fats, the vegetables,
the broccoli, the spits, thebroccoli, the spinach, the
asparagus onions Now, I don'tlike onions lesser cooked, so
(29:40):
that's fine, there's stillonions and I cook them.
Fish, you know.
And then, when it comes to tomeats, you want to do the
pastures, organic grass, fat orpastures meats, because they're
a healthier source and you get alot more vitamins and nutrients
(30:01):
from them than you would theother sources of meat if you, if
you are a meat eater.
So those were some of thethings that they that were
recommended for me.
When it came to the oxidativestress part of things, yeah,
it's right, just right there inyour results.
Jessica (30:17):
It's all part of the results that you get.
Tamar (30:19):
It's all right there just written out for you.
And then, with my clients, Itake it a step further.
So once I get their nutritiontest results, I set them up with
a meal plan that actuallymatches their genetic test
results.
So their test results will tellthem so the test tells them the
top three things they need toreally focus on to towards
(30:39):
health improvement, and the onethat's the highest priority.
There's a company that isassociated with the genetic
testing company.
They do meal plans.
It will link their meal plan tothat top priority based on a
genetic test, and it has all thefoods in there that they need
to eat and delicious recipes.
So then my patient, my clients,get that meal plan and whether
(31:04):
they use it or not, it's up tothem.
They don't have to do the exactrecipes that they don't want to
, but it's there and it givesthem an idea of all the types of
foods that they can eat.
That's better than McDonald'sor Burger King cross-trainers.
Jessica (31:19):
And all the different kinds of recipes available to
them too, using those specificfood items.
Can you share a little bit moreabout?
Let's see what about your topone to three tips for someone
with chronic pain.
Tamar (31:34):
Oh, my top one to three tips would be well, definitely,
you need to have a painmanagement plan, so that's going
to involve working with yourdoctor to make sure that they
can get to the root cause ofyour pain, and that might
involve different treatmentoptions like physical therapy,
(31:54):
medications, acupuncture and alot of people use a massage and,
as we mentioned earlier, stresscan bring on a lot of pain, so
stress reduction shoulddefinitely be part of that pain
management plan, and it mightseem counterintuitive.
My second tip, but it's to stayactive.
(32:16):
I know it can be difficult whenyou're in pain to be active,
but every little bit counts.
Every little bit counts, andthe more you do it, the more
endurance you'll build and theeasier it will be, and there are
activities that can be lowimpact.
Like I mentioned earlier, I hadbad knees, so swimming is a low
(32:38):
impact activity and be greatfor people with bad knees, and
yoga is a good option as well,and part of that staying active
and maintaining your healthylifestyle definitely involves
what you eat, your nutrition,because if you're not having a
(32:59):
well balanced diet or nutrition,you're going to be lacking in
certain vitamins, and thedeficiency in those vitamins can
also lead to pain.
So that's something important toconsider.
It all ties in together andalso, along with the healthy
lifestyle, sleep.
So a lot falls under thehealthy lifestyle part of things
(33:22):
.
But you take one step at a time, a little bit each day, add on
something else the next day andbefore you know it, it's going
to be part of your lifestyleregularly.
You're not going to think twiceabout it, it's just going to be
what you do.
And my third tip would be toget a support group.
Get a support group.
So I'm sure there are paingroups out there, support groups
(33:44):
out there.
So it's good to be able toconnect to other people that can
relate to you, to know thatyou're not alone in what you're
feeling and what you'reexperiencing.
And if you're one of thosepeople that took the
pharmacogenomic test and you canshare that with your support
group, but then you're helpingeverybody.
You know you get that support,the emotional support, the
(34:08):
mental support and learn ways tocope and cope with the
challenges of pain management.
Jessica (34:14):
Ooh, that is so good.
You mentioned sleep, with whicha lot of people actually forget
to think about.
I mean, with pain it's hard,right, sleep, not great sleep
and pain.
And then I love that you talkedabout the connection piece
feeling connected and belongingwith other people.
That has a huge impact on painand depression and anxiety,
(34:36):
which also tend to go hand inhand with chronic pain.
And then your fourth tip,obviously, is to get tested with
you to understand what is goingon, especially for those of you
guys who are taking so manydifferent kinds of medications
and having side effects that arenot great, like work with
tomorrow.
Please, I beg of you, okay,great.
(34:56):
And then in terms of your, Ithink you said that you had a
freebie that you wanted to sharewith everybody listening.
That would be helpful for themin terms of healthy lifestyle.
I think it was yes there.
Tamar (35:09):
You know, when I began my business, I found and start
working with clients.
I found that the the root causeof a lot of the problems that
they were having was the factthat they were not put in
themselves first.
They weren't doing a lot ofself care and taking care of
themselves.
So I have a workbook that Icreated for those who feel that
(35:39):
recognize that they do need theself care healthy habits, for
it's a self care workbook.
So within that workbook I'mgiving you it's kind of homework
, because self care is differentfor everyone, like what is self
care to me is different withself care to you, right, jessica
?
And for the next person.
So this workbook is designed tohelp you find, discover what
(36:02):
you need for self care, becausesometimes we don't know.
For example, one of my clients.
You know what she needed forself care.
It was a shower to begin in herday.
So she worked from home.
So she was just get up, havebreakfast, get on her computer
and start working, but she felthorrible the whole day.
So in our group coaching Iworked with her to figure out
(36:25):
what it is.
What, what can you start with?
What do you want?
What do you feel you need thatshower changed.
Her whole day is set, herroutine is that, her mood for
the entire day, and from thereshe had a huge transformation in
her train of thought and hermotivation to even get healthy.
(36:45):
Just taking a shower somethingthat we do, we all do every day
but for her, doing that at thebeginning of the day made a huge
difference and that was part ofher self care routine.
So the workbook is designed toto help you discover what it is
that you need in your self careroutine so that you can get on
(37:05):
the track.
So it's called healthy habitsHappy life for women on the path
to wellness.
Jessica (37:12):
I love it.
I love all the water referencesto.
I'm a.
I'm a water baby.
I grew up in the water, soswimming is my jam and taking
showers is definitely one of myfavorite parts of the day.
So, yeah, so that water can beso cleansing right, it's almost
like she needed just like thatcleanse to like get a fresh
(37:33):
start.
It's like, okay, this is myhome life, and then I take a
shower and then I start my workday.
Like it's like that was thething that differentiated the
two parts of her life, right?
So many people needed thatdifferentiation during COVID and
the pandemic, right?
Having that separation has beenreally important.
This has been fantastic.
(37:55):
Thank you so much for sharingall of your knowledge.
You shared so much with ustoday and I think there's so
many, so many bits ofinformation that lay people like
we don't understand.
We're not farmers, right, so wereally do it like we didn't
know these things right.
So I hope the listeners todaycan get a lot of insight in
terms, in terms of what'shappening actually in the
pharmacist's office downstairsat your doctor's office, you got
(38:18):
CVS and Walgreens and tounderstand how your medications
and yet the way that you eat andthe self care activities that
you participate in can reallyaffect your pain levels, can
really affect your well being,your psycho, emotional health,
all the things right.
Thank you so much for your timetoday.
I really appreciate you.
Tamar (38:40):
You're welcome, jessica it's been a pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
Jessica (38:45):
Alright, you guys.
I hope you enjoyed thatinterview with Dr Tamara Lawful
as much as I enjoyed talking toher.
She's truly.
I'm just really grateful to bemeeting so many kind hearted,
knowledgeable and generous humanbeings who really care about
empowering their people to feellike they have control and to
(39:10):
feel like they have the power tochange their lives and their
well being and their health.
So be sure to check out herwork.
I'm going to, of course, puther website in the show
description, so make sure youscroll down to find that, and
then her freebie, her workbookon self care, is also going to
be linked down below as well.
(39:31):
Next week we have Dr Brookejoining us.
She is a chiropractor here.
Her business is called Fresnofamily wellness and she offers
yet another perspective onhealing chronic pain, this time
in regards to expecting and newand current mothers, as well as
in pediatrics as well.
(39:52):
So stay tuned for that one aswell, and I'll catch you again
next week.
Thank you, as always, forlistening.
Have a great day.
Bye, bye.
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