March 5, 2024 • 29 mins
What does it take to be 'the world's most traveled man'? Our guest, Harry Mitsidis, founder of NomadMania, reveals how he has visited all 193 sovereign countries as recognized by the United Nations -- many, more than once. Harry paints a vivid picture of his travels, sharing not just the stamp-laden passport but the interactions, deep cultural immersions, and customs that have shaped his journey. His insights and strategies for extensive traveling are lessons for both the novice and seasoned traveler.
We discuss favorite and least favorite countries, beauty and unique customs, dangerous situations and lessons learned. And Harry’s closing memory about how a simple act of giving a dollar led to an outpouring of gratitude in a local village will leave you contemplating the value of small gestures.
_____
Harry Mitsidis (harry.mitsidis@gmail.com is one of maybe 400 people out of billions, who has traveled to all the countries on earth. He has visited almost all regions globally and is one of three people in the world to have visited every single country twice!
Harry has been featured in the Sydney Morning Herald, Washington Post, and Stuff as the world’s most traveled man, and he can speak 10 languages.
A postgraduate of Oxford, he has written two books and is founder of NomadMania.
_____
Podcast host Lea Lane has traveled to over 100 countries, and has written nine books, including the award-winning Places I Remember (Kirkus Reviews star rating, and 'one of the top 100 Indie books of the year'). She has contributed to many guidebooks and has written thousands of travel articles.
_____
Our award-winning travel podcast, Places I Remember with Lea Lane, has produced over 100 travel episodes! New podcast episodes drop on the first Tuesday of the month, on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you listen. Check them out.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lea Lane (00:00):
"I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list.
That's a famous quote fromauthor Susan Sontag, which I've
used for myself.
Our guest, Harry Mitsidis, hasbeen eveywhere.
He's founder of Nomad Mania anonline hub for independent
travelers, offering tracking andplanning tools for travel
adventures.
(00:20):
Harry is one of a veryexclusive group of maybe a
hundred people in the world whovisited all of the 193 sovereign
countries, according to theUnited Nations, and he's visited
many of them twice or more.
He's known by many as theworld's most traveled man.
Welcome, Harry, to Places IRemember.
Harry Mitsidis (00:43):
Hello Lea Thanks very much for having me.
Lea Lane (00:46):
Well, it's great to have you.
I have so many questions.
As a fellow frequent travelerwho's been to a mere 100
countries or so, about half ofwhere you've been.
I have so many questions, solet's start First.
where did you grow up, and whenyou were growing up did you
travel much?
Harry Mitsidis (01:02):
So I was born in London but I grew up in
Greece, in Athens, and, yes, wedid used to travel quite a lot
as a family because my mom'sEnglish, South African English,
so we would go to England, wewent to South Africa.
We also have relatives in theStates.
I was a reasonablywell-traveled child and young
(01:23):
man, especially back then in theearly 80s when people didn't
travel all that much.
Lea Lane (01:29):
So when did you realize that you wanted to
achieve this extreme travel goal?
Harry Mitsidis (01:33):
Well, I think it was a gradual process.
It's not something that youjust decide on from one day to
another.
I think I just was curiousabout the world.
I was intrigued by somecountries that no one would
really want to go to.
I was lucky enough to go toVietnam when I was 24, in 1996
(01:54):
for a summer project, andVietnam back then was just
opening up to the world and thatreally changed my perspective
on travel on the world.
And then I wanted more and more.
But I guess toward my early 20sI thought the idea of having a
normal quote, unquote life and 9to 5 or anything like that was
(02:17):
really not me, and theneventually the travel bug just
took over.
Lea Lane (02:22):
It sure did.
How did you manage toaccomplish it?
How were you able to work or toafford traveling the world?
Harry Mitsidis (02:29):
I was teaching, so I studied business and
sociology and then I got intolecturing in leadership and
management, and the good thingwith teaching is you get good
holidays, lots of time off.
So I would use everyopportunity I had back then to
go somewhere and gradually I hadabout 100, 120 countries
(02:51):
without even trying that much.
And then I was like, well, nowI really have to do them all.
I think it was a combination ofmaking sure that the finances
were well allocated, combiningcountries well so that I could
do a number of them on one tripand, of course, sacrificing
other things that quote unquote.
(03:13):
Normal people may see asobvious, but I was never really
into technical gadgets andthings like that.
I still have the same car after20 years, but things like that
yeah.
Lea Lane (03:27):
Yeah, in terms of family, were you able to do solo
travel or how did that work?
Harry Mitsidis (03:32):
I'm a solo traveler by nature.
I'm an only child and I thinkwhen you are an only child you
learn to be independent and youlearn to like to do things on
your own.
So often I choose to travelalone, even though I am married
and even though I could travelwith loads of friends as well.
(03:53):
But I do think that for me, theexperience of traveling alone
is the one where I truly exploreand discover the culture of the
place, where I get to havethese unique meetings with
locals.
Once you with someone from backhome, I think that that
experience is diluted quite alot.
Lea Lane (04:12):
I agree with you, like I wrote a book called Solo
Traveler.
So many times when you'retraveling with someone you know
you're not looking around,you're talking about the stock
market or something and youdon't, you lose it.
Yeah, now, do you stay a whilein most of these countries, or
do you try to stay longer thanjust to put your foot down and
run out?
Because I know people who dothat.
Harry Mitsidis (04:31):
Oh I know?
many people who do that.
To be very honest, in theprevious incarnation, back when
I was taking off the countriesand trying to do them all, I
think I'm guilty of having donethat on a number of occasions.
Well, now I don't, but backthen, let's say, you know, in
(04:51):
many of the African countries,back in the day, I would only
visit the capital and then say,okay, I've done it, I'm on to
the next one.
But you know, once I finishedevery country, I think that is
when I realize that you need toexplore countries much deeper.
You know and understand theregional differences.
I don't think the first timearound I had really understood
(05:13):
how varied African countries are.
Differences are.
This is something that Igradually came to realize by
going there more.
So, nowadays I do travel muchslower.
I've now been in Japan for tendays and I'm going to be here
for another month.
I think it's like a six weekJapan trip, which is something
(05:37):
that twenty years ago I wouldprobably never think of, but now
it's wonderful.
Well, you've done the one ninetythree; well it's one ninety
three, according to the UnitedNations.
Lea Lane (05:46):
Yes, yeah, so you don't have to rush, you can
enjoy them from now on.
Yeah, when you go there, do youeat local foods?
You live in local places.
What's your way of living?
Harry Mitsidis (05:57):
I think I'm.
I'm sort of a mixture betweenthe adventurer and the cautious,
so I'm not gonna do thingswhich could be dangerous.
I'm not going to buy streetfood in places where that could
cause a lot of problems, forexample, but yes, I am gonna go
local.
I've been eating exclusivelyJapanese food the past ten days
(06:20):
so do I yeah, well, in Japanthat's really right because the
food is so amazing and so very.
But I mean, even in countrieswhich may not be famous for that
, I do try to go local.
The one where I really give upis India.
I cannot handle spicy food andin India I just I just focus on
(06:41):
the dessert because they'regreat and milky and you know
they have all these sort ofcreamy, milky things.
But I cannot take the spices ofthe food s.
So usually I go hungry there.
And in terms of accommodation,again, it varies a lot.
I think one of the things abouttravel is not to have a rule.
(07:03):
You know to kind of do what youfeel like.
So sometimes I may stay at afive star hotel, sometimes I'm
gonna go to a hostel, sometimesI'm gonna go to an air bnb and
obviously quite a number oftimes I may stay with friends or
acquaintances.
Lea Lane (07:17):
Ot t traveled the world.
you have , I'm sure, a group ofyou that connects all the time
and talks about some of thewonderful things of the world.
Is that correct?
Harry Mitsidis (07:27):
Again.
when I did the first timearound back then, I was very
much alone and, of course, theinternet was also not that
developed back then.
Yeah, it was, it was very solothing.
But nowadays, yeah, we are acommunity and obviously I have
founded a community called No adMania, and there is a core of
people and we kind of alwayscommunicate.
(07:49):
We tend to meet in the mostobscure places sometimes and
even bump into each other, whichis crazy.
I bumped into someone on theplane to Tu valu, , which is
one of the least visited andleast known countries in the
Pacific, There we were boardingand like , you're here as well.
We ended up spending, our timetogether, which was great.
(08:14):
But yeah, yeah, that's a goodthing of being part of these
extreme travel communities
Lea Lane (08:20):
Wh at y extreme travelers have in common.
Harry Mitsidis (08:23):
I think it's the curiosity to to see and
experience more.
It's probably some form ofrestlessness, the inability to
stay put for very long, andthat's probably where it ends,
because in terms of demographics, we're extremely different.
You get all shapes and sizes,ages, and I like that.
(08:46):
It's a very democratic thing ina way.
The one thing which I wish isthat there were more people from
less known countries.
You know, many of us tend to befrom the more obvious European,
North America and Australia.
You know that background, butgradually we getting more Asians
in the community and a fewAfricans as well.
(09:09):
So that's really nice to see lcommunity of people are really
really committed to travelingand experiencing and
understanding the differencesbetween countries that others
have never (Right, Is it menand women both equal, not so
equal.
Not, so sadly.
i There i many women.
(09:30):
There are, but it is more men.
I think in this peoplesometimes think tha what what we
do is very qualitative, thatit's more, you know,
quantitative.
I disagree with that, but Ithink that is a bit of the
impression and I think womenmaybe more don't travel, don't
for long, a longer time, to aspecific destination, rather
(09:53):
than hopping about that much.
So in what we do, yes, thereare more men, but we are trying
to change that.
Lea Lane (10:00):
Have you taken any cruises?
Is this a way of seeing any ofthe places?
Harry Mitsidis (10:04):
Not as many as you would think I would like and
I don't think I've taken manycruises, cruise in the sort of
classical sense.
I've taken a few expedition.
You can call them cruises, butthey're more like expeditions,
meaning that they're difficulttrips.
I mean, the boat is comfortableenough, you get some service,
(10:26):
but it's not the sort of opulentplace where where you go to
have fun.
So if you're going, for example, to the Arctic, you know, to
the islands above Russia, oryou're going to Antarctica,
those are demanding trips whichwhere you know you need to be
both physically strong and oftenthe voyage itself is quite
tough.
I've taken only a couple of funcruises, you know, like the
(10:50):
classic Caribbean thing I took.
( I can't see you on that oYou've got, you've got to try
everything.
What?
Lea Lane (11:01):
Let's talk about a few of your favorite countries, and
why.
Give us a few?
Harry Mitsidis (11:05):
it's difficult to choose one.
If you ask me which countryshould you visit, I always say
North c, not because it's myfavorite, but because it's
definitely the most bizarreoutlandish, totally different
experience, where you often feeleverything is staged around you
, a little bit like that moviewith Jim Carrey you never know
(11:29):
what's real and what isn't.
So in terms of my real favorite, I'll admit that I'm attracted
to the countries not the mostobvious.
So it's not gonna be, you know,Spain, although I really do
like Spain, but you know it'snot gonna be the one I'm gonna
mention.
Some of the African countriesare surprising.
(11:49):
Rwanda.
Lea Lane (11:51):
I was just there, I was just a mountain gorillas.
Yes, did you go up to.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, what is it?
Harry Mitsidis (11:57):
Delightful, absolutely wonderful yeah,
Rwanda, I also think, is a veryoptimistic example of a country
that had a terrible tragedyhappened to it and somehow has
managed to bounce back, and Ithink that that positive message
is also a very nice thing tosee.
Also love .
Yes, it's beautiful and Ibelieve I was really great and I
(12:21):
would say even in West Africa,which is much more challenging
for the traveler, you haveplaces like Benin, not very well
known, but a lot of history,culture.
You've got what is called theVenice of Africa.
It's a sort of small villagewhich is made on still and you
can go and kind of gondolasaround it and then you've got a
(12:43):
lot of place sites which giveyou a bit of the history of the
place.
These kind of countries wherethe culture is authentic,
definitely mean more to me.
I'm in Japan now.
I mean it's impossible not tomention.
Japan is a favorite.
It's so different, the peopleare so courteous and yet it's
exotic at every step.
(13:04):
But at the same time it's avery easy country to travel and
you never need to watch yourback.
You know that it's safe.
You could leave money lyingsomewhere and you're gonna find
it after a day.
You know no one will touch it.
So these things make Japan verynice and I also like Iran a lot
.
You know, for Americanssynonymous with the devil, I
(13:24):
suppose.
Lea Lane (13:26):
But I heard that are so friendly.
I've been told that so manytimes believable, unbelievable.
Harry Mitsidis (13:33):
It's a real example where you need to
separate the people frompolitics, because the people in
Iran are truly r unbelievablyhospitable.
They will never let you gohungry, they'll invite you to
their homes.
And then, of course, thehistory, the culture.
I remember being in PersepolisP and being half Greek myself.
(13:54):
You know, in Persepolis youstill Still see the burn marks
on what is left of that ancienttown.
I could really feel the history.
And Alexander the great was,you know, burned it down.
So I don't know, I think Iranreally, really makes for a great
trip if you can forget thepolitical angle.
Lea Lane (14:17):
Right.
How about some of the leastfavorite countries?
Is there anywhere where youreally just did not care for the
country for whatever reason?
Harry Mitsidis (14:26):
I have never had a really bad experience.
I mean, there's some countrieswhere I feel that you are more
likely to be ripped off becauseit's just the culture.
Countries are poor and thenpeople go there maybe popular
places like Morocco or Tunisiabut I don't think it's.
I wouldn't say I don't likethem, I just think I'm less them
(14:51):
because of the idea that theyare more popular and when you go
there, the locals you a littlebit like a bank, but at the same
time I understand them.
They live in very difficultconditions without many job
opportunities, so you know it'sobvious that they're going to
try to find their way throughyou.
For me, everywhere isinteresting.
(15:12):
Even the bad is good in thesense that you can learn about
yourself, how you deal with thedifficulties, and I think that's
the point of travel to learnabout your limits, to learn
about what you can handle andwhat you can't.
So it's definitely educationaland there's no country where I
really wouldn't go again.
(15:33):
I often mentioned Gambia as anexample of a country that
thought of didn't reallyresonate with me, but again,
maybe, maybe I need to give itanother chance.
Lea Lane (15:44):
I'll wait on that one How?
bout beauty?
What would you say, d?
Which parts of the world?
Harry Mitsidis (15:51):
Well, that's a difficult question because
beauty comes in many, manydifferent forms.
I mean, you've got manybeautiful towns or villages
where you marvel at thearchitecture and, for example, I
really like Central Europeansmall towns, places like Czech
Republic, Hungary, that kind ofarchitecture that is beautiful,
(16:16):
and because I grew up in Athens,which isn't really known for
its beauty as a city, that issomething that always attracts
me.
Then, of course, you've gotnatural beauty, and that again
comes in many different shapes.
You can have an amazing beach.
I don't know if you've been toMa ritious.
(16:37):
Have you been to Rodriguezisland?
No, which are well, that's anhour and a half l away.
It's still part of the countryand Rodriguez island has one of
the most beautiful beaches I'veever seen.
So that is stunning, can justsit and look at it.
I would say mountains, thereare some mountains in northern
(16:58):
Pakistan and at the end of thatyou have the k2 places like the
Hundza o valley.
Those are stunningly beautiful.
You have these rugged mountainsand then lakes within
Tajikistan.
I mean all that mountain rangesort of around the Himalayas.
It's really beautiful to travelin.
So those are some places which,to me, you know, I would gladly
(17:21):
go there again wonderful.
Lea Lane (17:23):
How about customs?
Are there any customs that youremember off the top of your
head?
That struck you as the moststrange or the most interesting
a festival, perhaps that youwere a part of?
Harry Mitsidis (17:32):
Well, you know the world is.
The world is truly strange.
You know, there's a neverending array of bizarre things
one can witness everywhere.
Let me think of the top of myhead.
Well, here in Japan, I'vewitnessed so many weird things
in the last few days.
Yesterday I went for a meal ofcrab.
(17:55):
I finished the meal and Ithought that was that I was
ready to go, but then they saidno, no, no, sit.
And then the woman came and, insort of broth that had remained
from the crab, he took outeverything that was in there and
then added rice in and recookedit.
And I was looking in amazement.
You know what's going on hereand because you can never really
(18:19):
understand or talk with them,you just look in amazement and
wonder what's next.
And before I knew it, there wasa sort of post meal course of
rice with a bit of seasoning,and I just couldn't think of
what is the function of thiscourse.
Now I'm already full.
I've had all this crab, whichwas great, and now you're giving
(18:40):
me rice, which is very tasty,but but why so?
I mean, something as simple asthat can be really, really
bizarre.
Of course, there's all sorts ofother examples that could come
up of course.
Lea Lane (18:53):
Of course we've.
We've done some episodes on oninteresting customs and it's.
It's a fascinating what goes onin the world, and many people
travel with that in mind.
They go for a festival and manypeople don't realize is a
festival and miss it.
So I think it's something toconsider when you're traveling
the world what the festivals arenot to miss them (absolutely,
absolutely.
Harry Mitsidis (19:13):
Within our community, many people, you know
, love the festivals, as theones in Papua New Guinea, which
are very popular also.
Until this year, the Gerrelwaldfestival in Niger.
It had become popular, but now,with a new political situation
there, I don't know what's goingto happen.
And then, of course, you've gotin Latin America.
(19:33):
You've got all these festivalswhich are often.
You have masks and things likethat.
Yeah, yeah, it's great.
Lea Lane (19:41):
I think that that is one of the best things about
travel the festivals and the arefestivals actually in America
or wherever you live, in yourhometowns or nearby, if you, if
you check it out.
I mentioned the duct tapefestival that I went to a few
years ago.
It was, everything was made ofduct tape.
You know the floats, theclothing, you know.
Harry Mitsidis (20:00):
Interesting, right well, what I love about
America is that there's allthese weird things.
You know it, especially if yougo sort of off the beaten track
into the states that some peoplewould not necessarily travel to
.
You know, and you'll end upwith like the world's biggest
potato or something, andabsolutely, really hilarious, I
(20:21):
love that.
Lea Lane (20:21):
We're very good at that.
We're very good at that, butyou travel to some dangerous
destinations such as Somalia,Libya, Syria, you mentioned
North Korea, Ukraine now,unfortunately, Afghanistan.
What are some scary situationsyou've been in?
Let's choose one.
Is this something where youreally were lucky to get out?
Harry Mitsidis (20:42):
I found myself in a jail cell in Yemen.
That was not good, no, no.
And luckily I wasn't alone.
So at the time I was teachingin neighboring o man.
I had this strange idea thatgoing to Yemen was a good thing.
And then the student ovolunteered to take me.
(21:06):
So luckily at least I had aninterpreter and I got jailed
with my student who a think youknow it was in total shock.
It wasn't fun.
There were cockroaches,mosquitos.
We didn't really know what theywanted.
In the end what they wanted wasthe obvious.
So the next morning the obviouswas settled in a relatively
(21:28):
amicable way and we ended uphaving a big meal to celebrate
that in in the sort of area ofprison.
It makes for a good story, butreally scary.
I don't think I can express howscary it is to feel so
vulnerable and not to know whatmay happen to you.
You know, and at those momentsyou just think of the people you
(21:52):
love.
Lea Lane (21:52):
It's funny how that is a natural instinct that's
pretty strong, I would say I andI assume it was money that they
wanted to let's, let's.
Yeah, yeah, luckily, luckilyyeah you've been to, as I said,
many obscure places.
You've been to see keen andnarrow and you've been to
Pitcairn island, where I've beento.
We couldn't get on it I was ona cruise and because the waves
(22:17):
were so high, so the wholeisland came on the ship.
Y bout 45 people that came onthe ship and it was kind of
interesting.
I don't know what yourexperience was there, but it was
different.
Harry Mitsidis (22:27):
Well, I've been to Pitcairn twice, believe it
so.
So the first time it was out ofFrench Polynesia on the sort of
t yacht with another eight or Ithink we were about eight
travelers and we had three dayson Pitcairn.
And because there's no hotel,they allocate you to a local and
(22:48):
you pay them something and forthem it's a form of much needed
income.
So that that was veryinteresting, because each one of
us had a different experiencedepending on who we were
allocated to.
So I lucked out.
I got a lady who had a verynice house and a lot of space,
with a marvelous view, and shealso told me all the ins and
(23:11):
outs.
Lea Lane (23:11):
Yes, we should mention about that.
They're all related to captainBly from Mutiny on the Bounty
and other.
Harry Mitsidis (23:19):
And she was actually a descendant, yes,
Christian, from back then.
Yeah, yeah, Pitcairn is wellworth going to because it's the
smallest inhabited territoryanywhere.
There's only 50 people livingthere and the ship only comes
what three or four times a year.
Lea Lane (23:38):
So exciting they've been w hen our ship came by.
They were so excited to come onand have lunch and we met the
whole island.
It was just they all had themerch, so it was different.
Well, travel is a means todevelop emotional and social
intelligence.
What do you think are thesocial responsibilities of
(23:59):
travelers like yourself?
The purpose, besides racking upthese experiences?
Harry Mitsidis (24:04):
Oh, this is extremely important and this is
something that we also focus ona lot in Nomad a Mania.
So I totally believe, first ofall, that as a traveler, you
need to be an ambassador of yourcountry, which means you must
always be not only polite, butyou must, in a way, represent
your country.
If you are you demanding m ormean, you know, intolerant, then
(24:30):
the people you're visiting aregoing to think badly of the
place you come from.
So you know you arerepresenting and that also means
you need to know about your owncountry.
So I always say read up onwhere you're coming from,
because people will ask youquestions and you need to know
the answers.
I do think it's very importantto travel with an open mind.
(24:51):
I also support a lot the ideaof trying, especially in
difficult countries, to helplocal agents if possible.
If you hear From othertravelers that they're reliable,
then use them directly, becausethese people really need these
resources.
So a hundred dollars may not bethat much for you, but for them
(25:14):
it can make an incredibledifference.
I really think that it's veryimportant to read up a bit about
the customs and the way of lifebefore you go to a place.
Lea Lane (25:26):
Absolutely.
I just want to say when youretire if you ever do I don't
think you're gonna retire totravel, but anyway you'll never
retire, probably because youlove this so much.
But if you think you wouldsettle in one place in the world
besides your home, where wouldyou settle in the world?
Harry Mitsidis (25:41):
That is such a difficult question, nothing.
For someone like me, the ideaof settling would be very
different than it would be toyou or to anyone else.
When people think of retiringor settling, it's like you find
a place and you spend nearlyyour whole life there and build,
build your life around thatplace.
I can't really imagine myselfdoing that.
(26:04):
But if I did have to choose, Ireally can't handle the cold
weather I live in not too muchand I like bright, bright skies.
So I think at the end of theday, anywhere around the
Mediterranean may suit me well(doesn't sound bad).
Lea Lane (26:22):
Well, the name of the podcast is Places.
I Remember.
So, out of all your many, manymemories from so many places,
can you please share one reallyspecial memory to close out this
extraordinary episode?
Harry Mitsidis (26:36):
Yes, I remember once I was driving in Sierra
Leone.
Well, I wasn't doing thedriving, but I was in a car.
I was going from Freetown toMonrovia and it was a long
overland journey.
Lea Lane (26:47):
This is in Africa.
Harry Mitsidis (26:49):
This is in Africa, and the journey involved
a couple of barges to crossrivers, because they don't have
bridges there.
And I remember, as we werewaiting for one of the barges,
there was a local villagecommunity and of course they
don't get too many Caucasianpeople there, so they were all
screaming, you know, and dancingand sort of playing around and
(27:10):
I decided now I'm going to givethese people a dollar, one
dollar, and I gave them thedollar and I have never seen
anything like it.
You would have thought I gavethem a million dollars.
They all burst out and I meanthere were about 20 people I
don't know if they were onefamily or not and imagine them
colorfully dressed, the women,in these sort of elaborate
(27:32):
dresses.
They didn't look poor, theylook, you know, very, very nice,
clean, and they burst out indancing and thank you, and they
were, you know, really going forit.
And then when the barge came, Icould still hear them, you know
, elated, and I think that thelesson from that one dollar can
really make such a bigdifference to some people.
(27:55):
It's very important to rememberthese small lessons and that's
a memory I have never forgotten.
Lea Lane (28:01):
Well, a considered by many, i the world's most
traveled man.
May you have many, many moretravels throughout the world and
maybe a few staycations as well, and thank you so much for
traveling to us for just alittle while.
Harry Mitsidis (28:18):
Thank you so much and happy travels to your
remaining 90 countries.
Lea Lane (28:23):
Thank you.
"I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list.
That's a famous quote fromauthor Susan Sontag, which I've
used for myself.
Our guest, Harry Mitsidis, hasbeen eveywhere.
He's founder of Nomad Mania anonline hub for independent
travelers, offering tracking andplanning tools for travel
adventures.
(00:20):
Harry is one of a veryexclusive group of maybe a
hundred people in the world whovisited all of the 193 sovereign
countries, according to theUnited Nations, and he's visited
many of them twice or more.
He's known by many as theworld's most traveled man.
Welcome, Harry, to Places IRemember.
Harry Mitsidis (00:43):
Hello Lea Thanks very much for having me.
Lea Lane (00:46):
Well, it's great to have you.
I have so many questions.
As a fellow frequent travelerwho's been to a mere 100
countries or so, about half ofwhere you've been.
I have so many questions, solet's start First.
where did you grow up, and whenyou were growing up did you
travel much?
Harry Mitsidis (01:02):
So I was born in London but I grew up in
Greece, in Athens, and, yes, wedid used to travel quite a lot
as a family because my mom'sEnglish, South African English,
so we would go to England, wewent to South Africa.
We also have relatives in theStates.
I was a reasonablywell-traveled child and young
(01:23):
man, especially back then in theearly 80s when people didn't
travel all that much.
Lea Lane (01:29):
So when did you realize that you wanted to
achieve this extreme travel goal?
Harry Mitsidis (01:33):
Well, I think it was a gradual process.
It's not something that youjust decide on from one day to
another.
I think I just was curiousabout the world.
I was intrigued by somecountries that no one would
really want to go to.
I was lucky enough to go toVietnam when I was 24, in 1996
(01:54):
for a summer project, andVietnam back then was just
opening up to the world and thatreally changed my perspective
on travel on the world.
And then I wanted more and more.
But I guess toward my early 20sI thought the idea of having a
normal quote, unquote life and 9to 5 or anything like that was
(02:17):
really not me, and theneventually the travel bug just
took over.
Lea Lane (02:22):
It sure did.
How did you manage toaccomplish it?
How were you able to work or toafford traveling the world?
Harry Mitsidis (02:29):
I was teaching, so I studied business and
sociology and then I got intolecturing in leadership and
management, and the good thingwith teaching is you get good
holidays, lots of time off.
So I would use everyopportunity I had back then to
go somewhere and gradually I hadabout 100, 120 countries
(02:51):
without even trying that much.
And then I was like, well, nowI really have to do them all.
I think it was a combination ofmaking sure that the finances
were well allocated, combiningcountries well so that I could
do a number of them on one tripand, of course, sacrificing
other things that quote unquote.
(03:13):
Normal people may see asobvious, but I was never really
into technical gadgets andthings like that.
I still have the same car after20 years, but things like that
yeah.
Lea Lane (03:27):
Yeah, in terms of family, were you able to do solo
travel or how did that work?
Harry Mitsidis (03:32):
I'm a solo traveler by nature.
I'm an only child and I thinkwhen you are an only child you
learn to be independent and youlearn to like to do things on
your own.
So often I choose to travelalone, even though I am married
and even though I could travelwith loads of friends as well.
(03:53):
But I do think that for me, theexperience of traveling alone
is the one where I truly exploreand discover the culture of the
place, where I get to havethese unique meetings with
locals.
Once you with someone from backhome, I think that that
experience is diluted quite alot.
Lea Lane (04:12):
I agree with you, like I wrote a book called Solo
Traveler.
So many times when you'retraveling with someone you know
you're not looking around,you're talking about the stock
market or something and youdon't, you lose it.
Yeah, now, do you stay a whilein most of these countries, or
do you try to stay longer thanjust to put your foot down and
run out?
Because I know people who dothat.
Harry Mitsidis (04:31):
Oh I know?
many people who do that.
To be very honest, in theprevious incarnation, back when
I was taking off the countriesand trying to do them all, I
think I'm guilty of having donethat on a number of occasions.
Well, now I don't, but backthen, let's say, you know, in
(04:51):
many of the African countries,back in the day, I would only
visit the capital and then say,okay, I've done it, I'm on to
the next one.
But you know, once I finishedevery country, I think that is
when I realize that you need toexplore countries much deeper.
You know and understand theregional differences.
I don't think the first timearound I had really understood
(05:13):
how varied African countries are.
Differences are.
This is something that Igradually came to realize by
going there more.
So, nowadays I do travel muchslower.
I've now been in Japan for tendays and I'm going to be here
for another month.
I think it's like a six weekJapan trip, which is something
(05:37):
that twenty years ago I wouldprobably never think of, but now
it's wonderful.
Well, you've done the one ninetythree; well it's one ninety
three, according to the UnitedNations.
Lea Lane (05:46):
Yes, yeah, so you don't have to rush, you can
enjoy them from now on.
Yeah, when you go there, do youeat local foods?
You live in local places.
What's your way of living?
Harry Mitsidis (05:57):
I think I'm.
I'm sort of a mixture betweenthe adventurer and the cautious,
so I'm not gonna do thingswhich could be dangerous.
I'm not going to buy streetfood in places where that could
cause a lot of problems, forexample, but yes, I am gonna go
local.
I've been eating exclusivelyJapanese food the past ten days
(06:20):
so do I yeah, well, in Japanthat's really right because the
food is so amazing and so very.
But I mean, even in countrieswhich may not be famous for that
, I do try to go local.
The one where I really give upis India.
I cannot handle spicy food andin India I just I just focus on
(06:41):
the dessert because they'regreat and milky and you know
they have all these sort ofcreamy, milky things.
But I cannot take the spices ofthe food s.
So usually I go hungry there.
And in terms of accommodation,again, it varies a lot.
I think one of the things abouttravel is not to have a rule.
(07:03):
You know to kind of do what youfeel like.
So sometimes I may stay at afive star hotel, sometimes I'm
gonna go to a hostel, sometimesI'm gonna go to an air bnb and
obviously quite a number oftimes I may stay with friends or
acquaintances.
Lea Lane (07:17):
Ot t traveled the world.
you have , I'm sure, a group ofyou that connects all the time
and talks about some of thewonderful things of the world.
Is that correct?
Harry Mitsidis (07:27):
Again.
when I did the first timearound back then, I was very
much alone and, of course, theinternet was also not that
developed back then.
Yeah, it was, it was very solothing.
But nowadays, yeah, we are acommunity and obviously I have
founded a community called No adMania, and there is a core of
people and we kind of alwayscommunicate.
(07:49):
We tend to meet in the mostobscure places sometimes and
even bump into each other, whichis crazy.
I bumped into someone on theplane to Tu valu, , which is
one of the least visited andleast known countries in the
Pacific, There we were boardingand like , you're here as well.
We ended up spending, our timetogether, which was great.
(08:14):
But yeah, yeah, that's a goodthing of being part of these
extreme travel communities
Lea Lane (08:20):
Wh at y extreme travelers have in common.
Harry Mitsidis (08:23):
I think it's the curiosity to to see and
experience more.
It's probably some form ofrestlessness, the inability to
stay put for very long, andthat's probably where it ends,
because in terms of demographics, we're extremely different.
You get all shapes and sizes,ages, and I like that.
(08:46):
It's a very democratic thing ina way.
The one thing which I wish isthat there were more people from
less known countries.
You know, many of us tend to befrom the more obvious European,
North America and Australia.
You know that background, butgradually we getting more Asians
in the community and a fewAfricans as well.
(09:09):
So that's really nice to see lcommunity of people are really
really committed to travelingand experiencing and
understanding the differencesbetween countries that others
have never (Right, Is it menand women both equal, not so
equal.
Not, so sadly.
i There i many women.
(09:30):
There are, but it is more men.
I think in this peoplesometimes think tha what what we
do is very qualitative, thatit's more, you know,
quantitative.
I disagree with that, but Ithink that is a bit of the
impression and I think womenmaybe more don't travel, don't
for long, a longer time, to aspecific destination, rather
(09:53):
than hopping about that much.
So in what we do, yes, thereare more men, but we are trying
to change that.
Lea Lane (10:00):
Have you taken any cruises?
Is this a way of seeing any ofthe places?
Harry Mitsidis (10:04):
Not as many as you would think I would like and
I don't think I've taken manycruises, cruise in the sort of
classical sense.
I've taken a few expedition.
You can call them cruises, butthey're more like expeditions,
meaning that they're difficulttrips.
I mean, the boat is comfortableenough, you get some service,
(10:26):
but it's not the sort of opulentplace where where you go to
have fun.
So if you're going, for example, to the Arctic, you know, to
the islands above Russia, oryou're going to Antarctica,
those are demanding trips whichwhere you know you need to be
both physically strong and oftenthe voyage itself is quite
tough.
I've taken only a couple of funcruises, you know, like the
(10:50):
classic Caribbean thing I took.
( I can't see you on that oYou've got, you've got to try
everything.
What?
Lea Lane (11:01):
Let's talk about a few of your favorite countries, and
why.
Give us a few?
Harry Mitsidis (11:05):
it's difficult to choose one.
If you ask me which countryshould you visit, I always say
North c, not because it's myfavorite, but because it's
definitely the most bizarreoutlandish, totally different
experience, where you often feeleverything is staged around you
, a little bit like that moviewith Jim Carrey you never know
(11:29):
what's real and what isn't.
So in terms of my real favorite, I'll admit that I'm attracted
to the countries not the mostobvious.
So it's not gonna be, you know,Spain, although I really do
like Spain, but you know it'snot gonna be the one I'm gonna
mention.
Some of the African countriesare surprising.
(11:49):
Rwanda.
Lea Lane (11:51):
I was just there, I was just a mountain gorillas.
Yes, did you go up to.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, what is it?
Harry Mitsidis (11:57):
Delightful, absolutely wonderful yeah,
Rwanda, I also think, is a veryoptimistic example of a country
that had a terrible tragedyhappened to it and somehow has
managed to bounce back, and Ithink that that positive message
is also a very nice thing tosee.
Also love .
Yes, it's beautiful and Ibelieve I was really great and I
(12:21):
would say even in West Africa,which is much more challenging
for the traveler, you haveplaces like Benin, not very well
known, but a lot of history,culture.
You've got what is called theVenice of Africa.
It's a sort of small villagewhich is made on still and you
can go and kind of gondolasaround it and then you've got a
(12:43):
lot of place sites which giveyou a bit of the history of the
place.
These kind of countries wherethe culture is authentic,
definitely mean more to me.
I'm in Japan now.
I mean it's impossible not tomention.
Japan is a favorite.
It's so different, the peopleare so courteous and yet it's
exotic at every step.
(13:04):
But at the same time it's avery easy country to travel and
you never need to watch yourback.
You know that it's safe.
You could leave money lyingsomewhere and you're gonna find
it after a day.
You know no one will touch it.
So these things make Japan verynice and I also like Iran a lot
.
You know, for Americanssynonymous with the devil, I
(13:24):
suppose.
Lea Lane (13:26):
But I heard that are so friendly.
I've been told that so manytimes believable, unbelievable.
Harry Mitsidis (13:33):
It's a real example where you need to
separate the people frompolitics, because the people in
Iran are truly r unbelievablyhospitable.
They will never let you gohungry, they'll invite you to
their homes.
And then, of course, thehistory, the culture.
I remember being in PersepolisP and being half Greek myself.
(13:54):
You know, in Persepolis youstill Still see the burn marks
on what is left of that ancienttown.
I could really feel the history.
And Alexander the great was,you know, burned it down.
So I don't know, I think Iranreally, really makes for a great
trip if you can forget thepolitical angle.
Lea Lane (14:17):
Right.
How about some of the leastfavorite countries?
Is there anywhere where youreally just did not care for the
country for whatever reason?
Harry Mitsidis (14:26):
I have never had a really bad experience.
I mean, there's some countrieswhere I feel that you are more
likely to be ripped off becauseit's just the culture.
Countries are poor and thenpeople go there maybe popular
places like Morocco or Tunisiabut I don't think it's.
I wouldn't say I don't likethem, I just think I'm less them
(14:51):
because of the idea that theyare more popular and when you go
there, the locals you a littlebit like a bank, but at the same
time I understand them.
They live in very difficultconditions without many job
opportunities, so you know it'sobvious that they're going to
try to find their way throughyou.
For me, everywhere isinteresting.
(15:12):
Even the bad is good in thesense that you can learn about
yourself, how you deal with thedifficulties, and I think that's
the point of travel to learnabout your limits, to learn
about what you can handle andwhat you can't.
So it's definitely educationaland there's no country where I
really wouldn't go again.
(15:33):
I often mentioned Gambia as anexample of a country that
thought of didn't reallyresonate with me, but again,
maybe, maybe I need to give itanother chance.
Lea Lane (15:44):
I'll wait on that one How?
bout beauty?
What would you say, d?
Which parts of the world?
Harry Mitsidis (15:51):
Well, that's a difficult question because
beauty comes in many, manydifferent forms.
I mean, you've got manybeautiful towns or villages
where you marvel at thearchitecture and, for example, I
really like Central Europeansmall towns, places like Czech
Republic, Hungary, that kind ofarchitecture that is beautiful,
(16:16):
and because I grew up in Athens,which isn't really known for
its beauty as a city, that issomething that always attracts
me.
Then, of course, you've gotnatural beauty, and that again
comes in many different shapes.
You can have an amazing beach.
I don't know if you've been toMa ritious.
(16:37):
Have you been to Rodriguezisland?
No, which are well, that's anhour and a half l away.
It's still part of the countryand Rodriguez island has one of
the most beautiful beaches I'veever seen.
So that is stunning, can justsit and look at it.
I would say mountains, thereare some mountains in northern
(16:58):
Pakistan and at the end of thatyou have the k2 places like the
Hundza o valley.
Those are stunningly beautiful.
You have these rugged mountainsand then lakes within
Tajikistan.
I mean all that mountain rangesort of around the Himalayas.
It's really beautiful to travelin.
So those are some places which,to me, you know, I would gladly
(17:21):
go there again wonderful.
Lea Lane (17:23):
How about customs?
Are there any customs that youremember off the top of your
head?
That struck you as the moststrange or the most interesting
a festival, perhaps that youwere a part of?
Harry Mitsidis (17:32):
Well, you know the world is.
The world is truly strange.
You know, there's a neverending array of bizarre things
one can witness everywhere.
Let me think of the top of myhead.
Well, here in Japan, I'vewitnessed so many weird things
in the last few days.
Yesterday I went for a meal ofcrab.
(17:55):
I finished the meal and Ithought that was that I was
ready to go, but then they saidno, no, no, sit.
And then the woman came and, insort of broth that had remained
from the crab, he took outeverything that was in there and
then added rice in and recookedit.
And I was looking in amazement.
You know what's going on hereand because you can never really
(18:19):
understand or talk with them,you just look in amazement and
wonder what's next.
And before I knew it, there wasa sort of post meal course of
rice with a bit of seasoning,and I just couldn't think of
what is the function of thiscourse.
Now I'm already full.
I've had all this crab, whichwas great, and now you're giving
(18:40):
me rice, which is very tasty,but but why so?
I mean, something as simple asthat can be really, really
bizarre.
Of course, there's all sorts ofother examples that could come
up of course.
Lea Lane (18:53):
Of course we've.
We've done some episodes on oninteresting customs and it's.
It's a fascinating what goes onin the world, and many people
travel with that in mind.
They go for a festival and manypeople don't realize is a
festival and miss it.
So I think it's something toconsider when you're traveling
the world what the festivals arenot to miss them (absolutely,
absolutely.
Harry Mitsidis (19:13):
Within our community, many people, you know
, love the festivals, as theones in Papua New Guinea, which
are very popular also.
Until this year, the Gerrelwaldfestival in Niger.
It had become popular, but now,with a new political situation
there, I don't know what's goingto happen.
And then, of course, you've gotin Latin America.
(19:33):
You've got all these festivalswhich are often.
You have masks and things likethat.
Yeah, yeah, it's great.
Lea Lane (19:41):
I think that that is one of the best things about
travel the festivals and the arefestivals actually in America
or wherever you live, in yourhometowns or nearby, if you, if
you check it out.
I mentioned the duct tapefestival that I went to a few
years ago.
It was, everything was made ofduct tape.
You know the floats, theclothing, you know.
Harry Mitsidis (20:00):
Interesting, right well, what I love about
America is that there's allthese weird things.
You know it, especially if yougo sort of off the beaten track
into the states that some peoplewould not necessarily travel to
.
You know, and you'll end upwith like the world's biggest
potato or something, andabsolutely, really hilarious, I
(20:21):
love that.
Lea Lane (20:21):
We're very good at that.
We're very good at that, butyou travel to some dangerous
destinations such as Somalia,Libya, Syria, you mentioned
North Korea, Ukraine now,unfortunately, Afghanistan.
What are some scary situationsyou've been in?
Let's choose one.
Is this something where youreally were lucky to get out?
Harry Mitsidis (20:42):
I found myself in a jail cell in Yemen.
That was not good, no, no.
And luckily I wasn't alone.
So at the time I was teachingin neighboring o man.
I had this strange idea thatgoing to Yemen was a good thing.
And then the student ovolunteered to take me.
(21:06):
So luckily at least I had aninterpreter and I got jailed
with my student who a think youknow it was in total shock.
It wasn't fun.
There were cockroaches,mosquitos.
We didn't really know what theywanted.
In the end what they wanted wasthe obvious.
So the next morning the obviouswas settled in a relatively
(21:28):
amicable way and we ended uphaving a big meal to celebrate
that in in the sort of area ofprison.
It makes for a good story, butreally scary.
I don't think I can express howscary it is to feel so
vulnerable and not to know whatmay happen to you.
You know, and at those momentsyou just think of the people you
(21:52):
love.
Lea Lane (21:52):
It's funny how that is a natural instinct that's
pretty strong, I would say I andI assume it was money that they
wanted to let's, let's.
Yeah, yeah, luckily, luckilyyeah you've been to, as I said,
many obscure places.
You've been to see keen andnarrow and you've been to
Pitcairn island, where I've beento.
We couldn't get on it I was ona cruise and because the waves
(22:17):
were so high, so the wholeisland came on the ship.
Y bout 45 people that came onthe ship and it was kind of
interesting.
I don't know what yourexperience was there, but it was
different.
Harry Mitsidis (22:27):
Well, I've been to Pitcairn twice, believe it
so.
So the first time it was out ofFrench Polynesia on the sort of
t yacht with another eight or Ithink we were about eight
travelers and we had three dayson Pitcairn.
And because there's no hotel,they allocate you to a local and
(22:48):
you pay them something and forthem it's a form of much needed
income.
So that that was veryinteresting, because each one of
us had a different experiencedepending on who we were
allocated to.
So I lucked out.
I got a lady who had a verynice house and a lot of space,
with a marvelous view, and shealso told me all the ins and
(23:11):
outs.
Lea Lane (23:11):
Yes, we should mention about that.
They're all related to captainBly from Mutiny on the Bounty
and other.
Harry Mitsidis (23:19):
And she was actually a descendant, yes,
Christian, from back then.
Yeah, yeah, Pitcairn is wellworth going to because it's the
smallest inhabited territoryanywhere.
There's only 50 people livingthere and the ship only comes
what three or four times a year.
Lea Lane (23:38):
So exciting they've been w hen our ship came by.
They were so excited to come onand have lunch and we met the
whole island.
It was just they all had themerch, so it was different.
Well, travel is a means todevelop emotional and social
intelligence.
What do you think are thesocial responsibilities of
(23:59):
travelers like yourself?
The purpose, besides racking upthese experiences?
Harry Mitsidis (24:04):
Oh, this is extremely important and this is
something that we also focus ona lot in Nomad a Mania.
So I totally believe, first ofall, that as a traveler, you
need to be an ambassador of yourcountry, which means you must
always be not only polite, butyou must, in a way, represent
your country.
If you are you demanding m ormean, you know, intolerant, then
(24:30):
the people you're visiting aregoing to think badly of the
place you come from.
So you know you arerepresenting and that also means
you need to know about your owncountry.
So I always say read up onwhere you're coming from,
because people will ask youquestions and you need to know
the answers.
I do think it's very importantto travel with an open mind.
(24:51):
I also support a lot the ideaof trying, especially in
difficult countries, to helplocal agents if possible.
If you hear From othertravelers that they're reliable,
then use them directly, becausethese people really need these
resources.
So a hundred dollars may not bethat much for you, but for them
(25:14):
it can make an incredibledifference.
I really think that it's veryimportant to read up a bit about
the customs and the way of lifebefore you go to a place.
Lea Lane (25:26):
Absolutely.
I just want to say when youretire if you ever do I don't
think you're gonna retire totravel, but anyway you'll never
retire, probably because youlove this so much.
But if you think you wouldsettle in one place in the world
besides your home, where wouldyou settle in the world?
Harry Mitsidis (25:41):
That is such a difficult question, nothing.
For someone like me, the ideaof settling would be very
different than it would be toyou or to anyone else.
When people think of retiringor settling, it's like you find
a place and you spend nearlyyour whole life there and build,
build your life around thatplace.
I can't really imagine myselfdoing that.
(26:04):
But if I did have to choose, Ireally can't handle the cold
weather I live in not too muchand I like bright, bright skies.
So I think at the end of theday, anywhere around the
Mediterranean may suit me well(doesn't sound bad).
Lea Lane (26:22):
Well, the name of the podcast is Places.
I Remember.
So, out of all your many, manymemories from so many places,
can you please share one reallyspecial memory to close out this
extraordinary episode?
Harry Mitsidis (26:36):
Yes, I remember once I was driving in Sierra
Leone.
Well, I wasn't doing thedriving, but I was in a car.
I was going from Freetown toMonrovia and it was a long
overland journey.
Lea Lane (26:47):
This is in Africa.
Harry Mitsidis (26:49):
This is in Africa, and the journey involved
a couple of barges to crossrivers, because they don't have
bridges there.
And I remember, as we werewaiting for one of the barges,
there was a local villagecommunity and of course they
don't get too many Caucasianpeople there, so they were all
screaming, you know, and dancingand sort of playing around and
(27:10):
I decided now I'm going to givethese people a dollar, one
dollar, and I gave them thedollar and I have never seen
anything like it.
You would have thought I gavethem a million dollars.
They all burst out and I meanthere were about 20 people I
don't know if they were onefamily or not and imagine them
colorfully dressed, the women,in these sort of elaborate
(27:32):
dresses.
They didn't look poor, theylook, you know, very, very nice,
clean, and they burst out indancing and thank you, and they
were, you know, really going forit.
And then when the barge came, Icould still hear them, you know
, elated, and I think that thelesson from that one dollar can
really make such a bigdifference to some people.
(27:55):
It's very important to rememberthese small lessons and that's
a memory I have never forgotten.
Lea Lane (28:01):
Well, a considered by many, i the world's most
traveled man.
May you have many, many moretravels throughout the world and
maybe a few staycations as well, and thank you so much for
traveling to us for just alittle while.
Harry Mitsidis (28:18):
Thank you so much and happy travels to your
remaining 90 countries.
Lea Lane (28:23):
Thank you.
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