August 5, 2025 • 26 mins
Tano and Nicole, the founders behind Bono Events International, share secrets about Tuscany and Umbria, neighboring regions in the heart of Italy. We start with Tuscany's iconic rolling vineyards, coastal fishing villages, great cities including Florence and Siena, and magnificent art scene and traditions.
Then we focus on Umbria's rich religious heritage in Assisi, forested landscape, hilltop towns including Perugia, and captivating festivals.
You'll find ruins dating from Roman Times, and even unexpected waterfalls. From the picturesque coasts of Forte dei Marmi to the the walls of Lucca to the flowers of Spello; from the great cathedral in Orvieto to the leaning tower in Pisa, this episode is both informative and enchanting -- with lots of surprises.
Guests Tano and Nicole, the founders behind Bono Events International, live in Italy.
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Podcast host Lea Lane has traveled to over 100 countries, and has written nine books, including the award-winning Places I Remember (Kirkus Reviews star rating, and 'one of the top 100 Indie books of the year'). She has contributed to many guidebooks and has written thousands of travel articles.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lea Lane (00:00):
The region of Tuscany in central Italy is a favorite
destination of world travelers.
Its neighboring region, Umbria,is also a wonderful destination
.
On this episode of Places IRemember, we'll be talking about
both Our guests are Tano andNicole, founders of Bono Events
International, a luxury travelcompany that plans authentic
(00:22):
custom travel itineraries allover the world.
Benvenuti both of you to PlacesI Remember.
Nicole (00:29):
Thank you so much.
Thank you for having us Goodto be here.
Lea Lane (00:32):
Okay, well, let's start with Tuscany.
If you're after rolling hillsand cypress trees and sparkling
lakes, medieval hill towns,ancient cities, thick forests,
either region will do the trick.
Tell us what makes it sobeautiful to you.
Nicole (00:46):
Well, Tuscany will always be Tuscany, it'll never
go out of style, and my mom wasborn and raised in Florence, so
I actually have roots to Tuscany.
Florence is the city that Icall most mine when it comes to
Italy.
I went every year to Tuscanyand spent my summers in Florence
with my grandparents.
(01:07):
I think Tuscany has so muchdepth.
Lea Lane (01:10):
Well, I think most people don't realize it also has
the Apennine Mountains and thebeaches on the Tyrrhenian Sea,
so it has the coastal part too.
We always think in terms ofFlorence or Siena, so there's
more to it.
Nicole (01:23):
Many people don't know that Tuscany is one of the
largest regions in Italy.
It's huge.
It's not just Florence andSiena and Montepulciano.
That's it right.
Like there's so much more to it.
Tano (01:35):
One of the things that you said is that people underrate
the Tuscan coast.
So in the northern parts of thecoast there's the glitzy and
glamorous Forte dei Marmi that Iwould describe kind of as the
Beverly Hills on the beach ofTuscany, slightly inland, (or
even more like the Miami Beach).
Even slightly more inland, youcan go to Pietra Santa, which is
a wonderful town, medieval townthat has a huge modern art
(01:57):
scene, which is only fivekilometers from the beach.
You can mix culture and alsogoing to the beach.
But my favorite part of thecoast is when you go further
down to the Monte ArgentarioTorbetello.
Here you really feel likeyou're in the Italian Riviera,
but it meets the Tuscan way ofliving and you're also only
about an hour and 15 minutesfrom Rome.
Nicole (02:17):
Yeah.
Tano (02:18):
So it's convenient to escape to.
Nicole (02:20):
As a travel advisor here I come in with all my hotels
that I love.
There's a hotel called IlPelicano that is amazing, and
there's the Argentario GolfResort where they're hosting the
Italy Open this year.
So these are incredible placesto really enjoy this coast of
Tuscany that most people don'tthink of when they hear Tuscany,
(02:42):
but it feels like the Riviera.
Tano (02:44):
For the Tuscan archipelago , because Tuscany also has five
islands.
The main one is Elba.
Lea Lane (02:49):
That's where Napoleon is associated, right.
Tano (02:51):
Napoleon was exiled there, but also, more infamously, Isra
del Giglio, where that cruiseline you know got stuck.
Lea Lane (02:58):
Oh yes, the Costa, cruise line.
Tano (03:00):
Unfortunately also one of these beautiful islands with
crystal clear waters.
You think you're in Greece, butyou're right off the coast.
What a perfect trip.
Lea Lane (03:09):
I'm sure people would go to Rome or go to Florence and
have the wonderful beach aswell.
So that's a wonderful idea andI think most people perhaps
would do this if they knew aboutit, because I know I didn't
learn about it until I had beena couple of times.
Let's just talk about what notto miss.
The top three things.
Let's say you're on the beach,you're going for a day, you had
(03:31):
modern art on the coastline.
You've got the fabulousRenaissance art, obviously, the
sculpture of David, the UffiziGallery with the birth of Venus,
Botticelli.
You have a Da Vinci'sAnnunciation.
You've got the Medici tombs Imean, I'm throwing it out there,
but you also have places towalk, like the Ponte Vecchio,
which is the bridge over theArno, with the shops Everyone
knows about, the Duomo,
Nicole (03:52):
One of my favorite things to advise for people who
are only going for a day is pickthe thing that you want to see
the most, whether it's theGalleria or the Uffizi or the
Palazzo Vecchio or Palazzo Pittior any of the unbelievable
things there are.
But also we have some amazingrooftop terraces, whether
(04:13):
they're bars or restaurants,that we like to send people to,
to just sit and enjoy the cityfrom above, where you can really
see the atmosphere.
I think that's a really specialway to absorb a city and that's
something for me in Florencethat's like not to be missed,
because Florence is really,really overcrowded.
It just is Mass tourism.
(04:33):
On a nice rooftop with yourAperol Spritz, you see the Duomo
right in front of you.
It's like a different way toenjoy it.
Your time could be potentiallyso limited in the city.
Lea Lane (04:58):
So we have our spots.
It's also crowded, but it'sless so.
A couple of things One is thewonderful festival there, the
Palio.
Tell us about that.
Tano (05:07):
The Palio di Siena is a wonderful horse race which pits
all the different neighborhoodsof Siena and old medieval Siena,
and they each ride barebackthroughout the main square.
It is really an incredibleexperience.
As they do it twice a year,July and August so all the
neighborhoods manage to rotatein.
It is super intense, extremelycrowded and very hard to get
(05:31):
tickets to.
So if people want, there'sother amazing such festivals.
In Tuscany, just in nearbyArezzo, they have a full-on
jousting festival in Septemberwhere you feel like you're
transported directly back tomedieval times and it's a way of
having that same kind ofimmersion into these traditions
without having to be reallykneeing and elbowing people
(05:52):
tightly packed in and all theprices triple or quadruple.
Lea Lane (05:55):
Very good tip.
I know the festivals allthrough that area are superb.
I've been to a couple.
It's just a wonderful area forfood festivals, music festivals,
medieval festivals, renaissanceit's all there, very important.
I always try to mention this.
Try to look at the festivallistings and, if you can, some
of these festivals are wellworth detouring your trip to
(06:16):
sometimes get in there and Ialways try when I travel to note
if there's a festival aroundwhen I'm traveling.
I've missed a few because Ididn't do that.
Tano (06:24):
We do the same for our clients when they're traveling
throughout the region.
If we know that there's afestival happening where they
are whether it's a food festival, a cultural festival, an art
festival we ask them if they'reinterested and, if so, also to
make it easier for them to dealwith these situations.
If they're not very comfortable, you know, maybe in Italian
settings we have them beaccompanied by a guide that can
help them kind of navigate thesesituations.
(06:44):
They can enjoy the fullexperience of these food
festivals or these culturalfestivals and not feel
overwhelmed.
Lea Lane (06:50):
Yeah, I just want to mention Lucca.
It's one of my favorite cities.
On the Sergio River, it meansthe 'Bringer of Light,' and it's
known for its walls.
It's gorgeous walls about twoand a half miles of them.
Nicole (07:01):
Lucca.
Well, I'm a music lover.
If you love Puccini, that'swhere he's from.
Yes, the museum which has someimportant moments of his life,
and for opera lovers or formusic fans, that's a really cool
experience.
For Comic-Con nerds, Lucca isalso the home of the Comic-Con
of Europe.
Right?
Lucca is truly a wonderfulplace.
(07:22):
Whenever we send our clientsthere, they're like 'oh my gosh,
how do people not talk aboutthis place more?
Tano (07:27):
It's so charming and so pretty and we love, love, love
Lucca Wonderful antiques aswell, because they have amazing
stores, because they can rentout their storefronts for one
week for Comic-Con and pay theirrent for the year.
So they can afford to havethese antique stores when people
don't really buy that much,they don't really live off of
the stores.
Because they can live off whatthey make during Comic-Con.
Lea Lane (07:47):
Okay, that's very interesting.
The walls, by the way, are thesecond longest in Europe, behind
Nicosia, which is the capitalof Cyprus, so they're really
immense and stroll bike.
I just want to mention Pisa,because people all talk about
the Leaning Tower of Pisa.
I read that it's leaning alittle bit too much and it may
not be around much longer.
Tano (08:06):
They always move it.
When it leans too much, theybring it back.
Nicole (08:12):
They don't want to lose that, right.
I like to be very frank andtransparent with my clients when
discussing Pisa.
I say why do you want to seethe Leaning Tower of Pisa?
What draws you to Pisa?
I love the enthusiasm and it'sone of those places that people
just want to check off of theirlist.
They want their photo holdingthe tower.
There are photos holding thetower.
Pisa is really overcrowded.
(08:35):
It's just that one littlesquare.
Yeah, they come in and they puttheir hand against it and lean
and everyone's holding it up andyou see hundreds of people with
their hand up, and it's kind offunny just for that.
If people are not interested in going in and doing
the whole experience, I oftensuggest that they go at night to
(08:56):
see Pisa, because the Piazzadei Miracoli is beautiful at
night and there's a lot lesspeople.
Because that rush of the cruiseship effect right, the in and
out is gone.
Is it worth seeing?
Lea Lane (09:09):
Absolutely it depends on how much time you have.
So I just want to mention,speaking of time, you want to go
to see a couple of hill townsif possible, because that is so
much a part of Tuscany with thegorgeous countryside.
Which two, if you're going topick two, would you say?
Everyone loves San Gimignano Ican't even say it correctly.
With the tall, tall towers,it's very crowded sometimes.
(09:30):
Also, with 14 towers, therewere 170 there.
It was a powerful place.
Tano (09:36):
What do you feel
Lea Lane (09:36):
about it?
Tano (09:37):
San Gimignano is is really convenient if you're leaving
Florence because it's close toFlorence, so I think it's a good
stopover to make.
I feel like i.
it's not as maybe genuinefeeling as other towns, because
it's so close to Florence thatit gets too much foot traffic
throughout the day, but it is abeautiful experience to go as a
jaunt from Florence.
The two that I think are mostspecial are the two in the Val
d'Orcia, near Siena, which areMontepulciano and Montalcino.
Lea Lane (10:00):
Yes, that's a gorgeous area.
Nicole (10:02):
Absolutely beautiful.
And number three to that Iwould just say is Pienza.
Pienza is probably one of myfavorites.
I think it's so charming and Ilove Pienza.
I think the views of the ValOrcia from Pienza.
I prefer Pienza toMontepulciano in terms of a town
, but Montepulciano is often soimportant because it's a landing
base when we do a lot of wineand gastronomy tours.
(10:23):
Fabulous wine, and Montalcinois our favorite, little Cortona.
Lea Lane (10:32):
It's an attractive town so I wanted to.
Tano (10:37):
It's a wonderful town.
It has a lot of history relatedto St Francis of Assisi as well
.
you know did a lot of his workaround that area.
It kind of blends Tuscany withmore of a natural forest feeling
to it.
It's really on the cusp betweenTuscany and Umbria, so it's a
great place to stay as adeparture point to explore both
the regions.
Lea Lane (10:56):
Right, so let's mention Umbria.
It's known for the forest, asyou mentioned.
It's much greener.
It's called the Green Heart ofItaly by many and it has a
different look, very beautifulas well.
There are medieval hill townsand delicious local cuisine.
Tell us about Assisi.
Let's start there.
Nicole (11:13):
I think you should talk about Assisi because he goes
there a lot with our clients.
He does food tours around thatarea a lot.
Tano (11:19):
Assisi is such an important place for people to
visit because of its religioushistory.
St Francis of Assisi isprobably the most well-known
saint in the world.
The basilica is incredible,with some masterpieces from the
medieval period, from Giotto,among others, and the double
basilica is really unique to see, and the entire town has been
born out of the cult of StFrancis.
It has dozens of churches,palaces.
(11:40):
Even St Clair and all herorders are in Assisi.
Even down valley you can visitthe original Porziuncola, the
house that he built with his ownhands, that they built this
mega church on top of now.
So you see this tiny littlehome that he built with his
hands and they built thisenormous cathedral over.
With this massive dome thattowers the region.
You can get lost in the woodsof St Francis, where he used to
(12:02):
walk around and allegedly speakto animals.
So it really is an enchantingplace to visit.
Of course, you have to becareful to make sure you're not
going during a religious holidayor a jubilee event, because you
could be stuck waiting forhours to move around.
Lea Lane (12:19):
Yeah, Nowadays we do want to always say, if you can
go off season off hours, youknow, unless there's something
specific, like we mentioned,some festivals but it's much,
much better to try to go off.
Nearby is Perugia, a beautifultown.
It's known for its chocolates.
I remember them and I went to ajazz festival there many years
ago, which was fantastic.
They had jazz all through thepiazzas and buildings and it was
(12:43):
just a great, famous jazzfestival.
Anything else to say aboutPerugia.
Nicole (12:46):
Well, Perugia is technically the capital of
Umbria, so when it comes tologistics, people often can land
there.
Trains as well service, andthere are a couple of hotels
that we work with in Perugiathat we love.
I find that Perugia it's notnecessarily the beating heart of
Umbria.
I think that the hilltop townsare more, but Perugia has so
(13:07):
much to offer.
There's this one placespecifically.
Tano always calls it the Game ofThrones.
Tano (13:13):
Perugia is built on top of the hill.
You have to get to theAcropolis on top.
It has Roman origins.
The historic center isabsolutely unbelievable with
13th century churches, all ofthese palaces that hearken back
to Perugia.
Perugia was under control ofthe Vatican States for a
thousand years.
There's these halls you canvisit, where you see all the
frescoes of all the families youknow that used to come together
(13:34):
as a guild to decide what to dovis-a-vis the Vatican, leave
the Vatican.
Perugia also famously fought awar against the Vatican states
on the tax on salt, which is why, to this day, Umbrian bread is
not salted.
Lea Lane (13:51):
So all these historical things you can tie
back to the city.
We're getting great tips.
I have to mention another city,the city you live in, Orvieto.
That's a beautiful, beautifulcathedral.
I think it's one of the mostbeautiful ever.
If you look at the detailing onit, the facade, and inside, you
know Orvieto.
Nicole (14:05):
Okay.
So Orvieto when everyone comeshere, they don't know what to
expect because it does look likethis little Tuscan town.
I think we've brought at leastover 400 people to Orvieto
specifically.
Everyone is always so blownaway by how charming it is, how
many stores there are, boutiquesthere are.
The Duomo is, of course, theDuomo and there's the Pozo di
(14:28):
San Patricio, but there's thewhole underground.
There's the Etruscan Caves,where I've actually planned a
party in one of the EtruscanCaves for like a bachelorette
moment.
Vineyards all around.
This is a wine town, OrvietoClassico, but people in this
area love food, love gastronomy.
So Orvieto has all these coollittle bars and eateries and
(14:51):
places and in high seasonthere's things going on in
Orvieto.
Tano (14:56):
There's the medieval festival which matches up with
the holiday of Orvieto, which isthe Corpus Christi.
Nicole (15:01):
Yeah, the Corpus Christi .
Tano (15:02):
Yeah, the corpus christi because the church was built for
eucharistic miracle in 1292.
So that's why the wholefestival and everyone dresses in
costume and there's music andthey parade around the city even
winter, take out the relic ofthe of the eucharist, when the
blood drops during the ceremony.
Lea Lane (15:19):
It's one of the best festivals in terms of costuming
and so forth.
Nicole (15:24):
Orvieto is truly one of Umbria's most impressive towns.
You can walk along the rupe,which are basically these
Etruscan walls that hold thecity up.
You can hike around it.
There are two hotels that Iwould love to shout out to in
(15:44):
Orvieto.
One is Palazzo Michatelli andthe other one is Palazzo Petrus.
They're both boutique hotels,five-star, unbelievable service.
They're both family-owned, verydifferent.
But if anyone ever wanted tostay in Orvieto anywhere, those
two hotels would be where Iwould always recommend them
staying.
And then, similar to that,there is a beautiful, beautiful
(16:06):
vineyard called LocandaPalazzone, which is five minutes
outside the city center in thehills.
That is the entire reason whywe live here, because I fell in
love with this place and thenended up planning a wedding for
a client here there and then wejust stayed.
We just never left,
Lea Lane (16:23):
Of course, all around our hilltop towns, tiny towns.
When you drive around you seethem on the tops of the hills.
We stayed in one called Spello,which is one of the prettiest
villages in all of Italy.
There's a festival there, theInfiorate --I'm not going to say
that right-- where they putcarpets of flower petals all
through the streets and thereare usually flowers all over.
But many of the towns there areoriginally.
(16:47):
o's one of them, Todi, isanother where you see Roman
ruins.
And then there's Gubbio, whichis a very lovely town as well.
We rented a place.
There are rentals, you can stayin B&Bs or there are all kinds
of ways to stay in these littletowns and be a part of them.
Nicole (17:09):
So we do a lot of villa rentals for our clients, like
week long or more when it'sshort stays.
We work mostly with hotels andfour star five star hotels.
I think it's fun if you want tohop around.
It's like island hopping, butfor Umbria it's hilltop town
hopping, absolutely.
We do a couple of nights here,a couple of nights.
They look like islands on topof the hills.
It's almost like anarchipelligo of hilltops right.
Lea Lane (17:30):
I mean you want to go to each one because as you look
at them, they all have thatwonderful look, but they're all
a little bit different, so it isfun to hop around if you can do
that.
Nicole (17:39):
Or some people prefer to have a home base and then do
day trip which is also, there'sgood train service.
Lea Lane (17:47):
Right, there's very good train service around from
the major cities.
Then you have to sort of workit out.
But some of the towns are amile away from each other and
you could walk.
I know at Spello you could walkto another town in about a mile
.
Nicole (17:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Worth mentioning in Umbria isthe waterfalls which nobody
knows about.
Yes, yes, but there's thisunbelievable waterfall park.
People go to Croatia for thewaterfalls, come to Umbria
because we've got them too.
Tano (18:10):
Cascata delle Marmore.
Nicole (18:12):
The Cascata delle Marmore and the wonderful lake.
Yes yes, exactly.
We are so lucky that we get tomilk this destination for
everything it's worth with ourclients.
You latte it.
Yes, with our travel clients.
This year I'm planning twodestination weddings here.
(18:33):
One is in Elopo and one is awedding with this fantastic
collaborator I have with twoproperties here, Pietra Campana
and Torre Colevento, which arestunning four-star properties I
think are worth everything.
They're just so precious andhomey and family run.
Yeah, I'm in love with Orvieto.
So you're, you know you'reasking people who have
(18:54):
completely uprooted their wholelives here.
Lea Lane (18:57):
It's very hard not to fall in love, If you don't do
that, I'll tell you, yes, youwant to go back.
So the slow food movement whichstarted in the area this
Tuscany and all that area is avery important movement around
the world now.
And just mention a few of thefoods of Tuscany and Umbria.
I know it's a lot of game andmeat and it's heavy, but it's
delicious.
What would you not miss Acouple of this is a great thing
(19:19):
for me.
Tano (19:19):
I'm a slow food member.
You know I go to all theirevents whenever I can.
Orvieto is a slow food city andI'm really supportive all the
work they do in preservinghistorical products and allowing
artisanal producers to stillproduce their products and have
market and have some support.
So in umbria the biggest thingto do is, I think, porchetta,
which is the typical fullyrolled, deboned, stuffed pig,
(19:41):
and there's actually a porchettaslow food festival called
porchettiano in San Terenziano,which is close to Todi in August
.
It cannot be missed.
All the best porchetta from allof Umbria and Rome and even
Tuscany, come and meet and youhave, you can eat them all.
The typical food of Perugia iscalled la torta al testo, this
round kind of bread which isstuffed with pig fat inside,
(20:03):
which goes back to the Romantimes.
But the typical pasta of Umbriais the umbricarlo, which is
like a water and flour freshspaghetti and we actually
collaborate with locals here inOrvieto to host cooking classes
where our clients and otherclients can come by and make all
of these foods.
Nicole (20:21):
Our cooking classes.
What makes them different isthat we're going inside the
homes of people from Umbria, soit's not like a cooking studio
or something generic.
Incredible home cooks, italianwomen to open the doors at home.
It makes for a really, reallyincredible experience.
Lea Lane (20:36):
Yeah, it is, I think, cooking in that region.
I know many people who havedone it.
They go for a week or two andwell, some people like to paint
and some people like to do manyother things, but cooking is a
big deal and the food is very,very delicious.
Rich, you know truffles andmushrooms and meat.
It's heavy, and with the wines,come on, how can you beat it?
Tano (20:58):
And the same with Tuscany.
It's very famous for its beef,la bistecca, la fiorentina for
the big white pianina, maremmacows.
Also there's the tordello,which is like a big tortellino
which is stuffed with beef, andit's served in a beef ragu, very
hearty food.
There's a wonderful festival oftordello outside Lucca that they
(21:19):
do every June.
You can go and try all thesedifferent torrtelini, all the
local grandmas make in one place.
You know, Tuscany is known forits use of liver.
You know livers, pate, crostini, and it's such a normal part of
day-to-day life that evenchildren here have no problems.
Delicious.
One of the best steakhouses inthe world is in the town of
(21:41):
Saturnia in Tuscany.
It's ranked number seven or sixin the world and they have all
these amazing Italian varietiesof international cows and they
serve it in a very Tuscan style.
It means you can't get anythingmore than rare they don't ask
you.
Nicole (21:58):
This steakhouse.
It's called Iduecipi, it's inSaturnia, it is phenomenal.
The number seven steakhouse inthe discovery is endless, of
(22:22):
central Italy, speaking toTuscany and Umbria as a whole
because, as you know, the bordergoes like a squiggly line.
Lea Lane (22:31):
Yes, and it's very beautiful.
I just want to say there arecertain roads that are
especially beautiful.
If you're going to go betweenthe two, check it out.
There are a couple of roadsthat are exceptionally gorgeous
which we have taken.
It's worth it.
It's an hour or two of driving,but it's so, so pretty and you
see the difference between theTuscan countryside and the
Umbrian countryside.
They're both gorgeous, but thechanges are very interesting as
(22:52):
you drive.
If you can rent a car or bikeor whatever.
Whatever way you do it, I justyou know I'm thinking of it
right now.
I'm walking in Spello with agelato of roses or something I
remember.
The flavors were all so floral.
It's wonderful.
So Tuscany and Umbria aredestinations you can return to
year after year.
There's so much to see and do.
The name of the Podcast isPlaces I Remember, so I want to
(23:16):
ask you, Nicole and Tano, canyou share a special personal
memory of your beloved region?
Nicole (23:22):
Well, we got married here.
We got married in the Duomo ofOrvieto and we had the reception
at a castle called Castello diTorre Alfina.
The night before, we had ourwelcome event at Locanda
Palazzone, which was thatvineyard that I was speaking
about, and that evening I had mybachelorette party in an
(23:46):
Etruscan cave with my girls.
Lea Lane (23:48):
Oh my goodness, it's a destination wedding.
I doubt if anyone didn't showup.
Nicole (23:53):
Oh yeah, the day after we had a beautiful brunch at
Palazzo Petrus, which is thisgorgeous hotel palazzo in the
city center of Orvieto.
I mean, this is what I doprofessionally, this is what we
do, but part of our memory ofthis, which is so special to us,
is that we really wanted totogether design a wedding that
was our love letter to Orvietoand for all of our closest
(24:17):
friends and family to experienceit, and the best compliment we
got was that I feel like we gotto see Orvieto from so many
different angles.
To get married in the Duomo isquite the experience.
There's no privatizing theDuomo.
You cannot get rid of thetourists and you have to go
through a zillion things when itcomes to bureaucracy and
(24:39):
paperwork, but I married alawyer and he really, really,
really helped.
Lea Lane (24:45):
Well, nothing's perfect, right?
Nicole (24:47):
That's okay too, no but it was worth it and this place
will always be important to us,whether or not we stay here in
our lives.
I mean, that's truly somethingwe will it's a great memory.
Lea Lane (24:59):
It's a great memory to imagine, let alone to go
through it.
So congratulations on bothhaving a wonderful wedding in
the most perfect place I canthink of.
I want to thank you very much,Nicole and Tano, founders of
Bono Events International, andyou make us really want to go
there, and you've given us somegreat tips too.
When you go to a place likethis, it's so popular you do
(25:22):
need to study it a bit and totry to think about it ahead of
time to make the most of it.
Spend as much time as youpossibly can.
Nicole (25:29):
It's really worth it.
We would love to take youaround for a spin.
Lea Lane (25:35):
I'd love it.
Thank you for so much, Joy.
Thank you, thank you.
The region of Tuscany in central Italy is a favorite
destination of world travelers.
Its neighboring region, Umbria,is also a wonderful destination
.
On this episode of Places IRemember, we'll be talking about
both Our guests are Tano andNicole, founders of Bono Events
International, a luxury travelcompany that plans authentic
(00:22):
custom travel itineraries allover the world.
Benvenuti both of you to PlacesI Remember.
Nicole (00:29):
Thank you so much.
Thank you for having us Goodto be here.
Lea Lane (00:32):
Okay, well, let's start with Tuscany.
If you're after rolling hillsand cypress trees and sparkling
lakes, medieval hill towns,ancient cities, thick forests,
either region will do the trick.
Tell us what makes it sobeautiful to you.
Nicole (00:46):
Well, Tuscany will always be Tuscany, it'll never
go out of style, and my mom wasborn and raised in Florence, so
I actually have roots to Tuscany.
Florence is the city that Icall most mine when it comes to
Italy.
I went every year to Tuscanyand spent my summers in Florence
with my grandparents.
(01:07):
I think Tuscany has so muchdepth.
Lea Lane (01:10):
Well, I think most people don't realize it also has
the Apennine Mountains and thebeaches on the Tyrrhenian Sea,
so it has the coastal part too.
We always think in terms ofFlorence or Siena, so there's
more to it.
Nicole (01:23):
Many people don't know that Tuscany is one of the
largest regions in Italy.
It's huge.
It's not just Florence andSiena and Montepulciano.
That's it right.
Like there's so much more to it.
Tano (01:35):
One of the things that you said is that people underrate
the Tuscan coast.
So in the northern parts of thecoast there's the glitzy and
glamorous Forte dei Marmi that Iwould describe kind of as the
Beverly Hills on the beach ofTuscany, slightly inland, (or
even more like the Miami Beach).
Even slightly more inland, youcan go to Pietra Santa, which is
a wonderful town, medieval townthat has a huge modern art
(01:57):
scene, which is only fivekilometers from the beach.
You can mix culture and alsogoing to the beach.
But my favorite part of thecoast is when you go further
down to the Monte ArgentarioTorbetello.
Here you really feel likeyou're in the Italian Riviera,
but it meets the Tuscan way ofliving and you're also only
about an hour and 15 minutesfrom Rome.
Nicole (02:17):
Yeah.
Tano (02:18):
So it's convenient to escape to.
Nicole (02:20):
As a travel advisor here I come in with all my hotels
that I love.
There's a hotel called IlPelicano that is amazing, and
there's the Argentario GolfResort where they're hosting the
Italy Open this year.
So these are incredible placesto really enjoy this coast of
Tuscany that most people don'tthink of when they hear Tuscany,
(02:42):
but it feels like the Riviera.
Tano (02:44):
For the Tuscan archipelago , because Tuscany also has five
islands.
The main one is Elba.
Lea Lane (02:49):
That's where Napoleon is associated, right.
Tano (02:51):
Napoleon was exiled there, but also, more infamously, Isra
del Giglio, where that cruiseline you know got stuck.
Lea Lane (02:58):
Oh yes, the Costa, cruise line.
Tano (03:00):
Unfortunately also one of these beautiful islands with
crystal clear waters.
You think you're in Greece, butyou're right off the coast.
What a perfect trip.
Lea Lane (03:09):
I'm sure people would go to Rome or go to Florence and
have the wonderful beach aswell.
So that's a wonderful idea andI think most people perhaps
would do this if they knew aboutit, because I know I didn't
learn about it until I had beena couple of times.
Let's just talk about what notto miss.
The top three things.
Let's say you're on the beach,you're going for a day, you had
(03:31):
modern art on the coastline.
You've got the fabulousRenaissance art, obviously, the
sculpture of David, the UffiziGallery with the birth of Venus,
Botticelli.
You have a Da Vinci'sAnnunciation.
You've got the Medici tombs Imean, I'm throwing it out there,
but you also have places towalk, like the Ponte Vecchio,
which is the bridge over theArno, with the shops Everyone
knows about, the Duomo,
Nicole (03:52):
One of my favorite things to advise for people who
are only going for a day is pickthe thing that you want to see
the most, whether it's theGalleria or the Uffizi or the
Palazzo Vecchio or Palazzo Pittior any of the unbelievable
things there are.
But also we have some amazingrooftop terraces, whether
(04:13):
they're bars or restaurants,that we like to send people to,
to just sit and enjoy the cityfrom above, where you can really
see the atmosphere.
I think that's a really specialway to absorb a city and that's
something for me in Florencethat's like not to be missed,
because Florence is really,really overcrowded.
It just is Mass tourism.
(04:33):
On a nice rooftop with yourAperol Spritz, you see the Duomo
right in front of you.
It's like a different way toenjoy it.
Your time could be potentiallyso limited in the city.
Lea Lane (04:58):
So we have our spots.
It's also crowded, but it'sless so.
A couple of things One is thewonderful festival there, the
Palio.
Tell us about that.
Tano (05:07):
The Palio di Siena is a wonderful horse race which pits
all the different neighborhoodsof Siena and old medieval Siena,
and they each ride barebackthroughout the main square.
It is really an incredibleexperience.
As they do it twice a year,July and August so all the
neighborhoods manage to rotatein.
It is super intense, extremelycrowded and very hard to get
(05:31):
tickets to.
So if people want, there'sother amazing such festivals.
In Tuscany, just in nearbyArezzo, they have a full-on
jousting festival in Septemberwhere you feel like you're
transported directly back tomedieval times and it's a way of
having that same kind ofimmersion into these traditions
without having to be reallykneeing and elbowing people
(05:52):
tightly packed in and all theprices triple or quadruple.
Lea Lane (05:55):
Very good tip.
I know the festivals allthrough that area are superb.
I've been to a couple.
It's just a wonderful area forfood festivals, music festivals,
medieval festivals, renaissanceit's all there, very important.
I always try to mention this.
Try to look at the festivallistings and, if you can, some
of these festivals are wellworth detouring your trip to
(06:16):
sometimes get in there and Ialways try when I travel to note
if there's a festival aroundwhen I'm traveling.
I've missed a few because Ididn't do that.
Tano (06:24):
We do the same for our clients when they're traveling
throughout the region.
If we know that there's afestival happening where they
are whether it's a food festival, a cultural festival, an art
festival we ask them if they'reinterested and, if so, also to
make it easier for them to dealwith these situations.
If they're not very comfortable, you know, maybe in Italian
settings we have them beaccompanied by a guide that can
help them kind of navigate thesesituations.
(06:44):
They can enjoy the fullexperience of these food
festivals or these culturalfestivals and not feel
overwhelmed.
Lea Lane (06:50):
Yeah, I just want to mention Lucca.
It's one of my favorite cities.
On the Sergio River, it meansthe 'Bringer of Light,' and it's
known for its walls.
It's gorgeous walls about twoand a half miles of them.
Nicole (07:01):
Lucca.
Well, I'm a music lover.
If you love Puccini, that'swhere he's from.
Yes, the museum which has someimportant moments of his life,
and for opera lovers or formusic fans, that's a really cool
experience.
For Comic-Con nerds, Lucca isalso the home of the Comic-Con
of Europe.
Right?
Lucca is truly a wonderfulplace.
(07:22):
Whenever we send our clientsthere, they're like 'oh my gosh,
how do people not talk aboutthis place more?
Tano (07:27):
It's so charming and so pretty and we love, love, love
Lucca Wonderful antiques aswell, because they have amazing
stores, because they can rentout their storefronts for one
week for Comic-Con and pay theirrent for the year.
So they can afford to havethese antique stores when people
don't really buy that much,they don't really live off of
the stores.
Because they can live off whatthey make during Comic-Con.
Lea Lane (07:47):
Okay, that's very interesting.
The walls, by the way, are thesecond longest in Europe, behind
Nicosia, which is the capitalof Cyprus, so they're really
immense and stroll bike.
I just want to mention Pisa,because people all talk about
the Leaning Tower of Pisa.
I read that it's leaning alittle bit too much and it may
not be around much longer.
Tano (08:06):
They always move it.
When it leans too much, theybring it back.
Nicole (08:12):
They don't want to lose that, right.
I like to be very frank andtransparent with my clients when
discussing Pisa.
I say why do you want to seethe Leaning Tower of Pisa?
What draws you to Pisa?
I love the enthusiasm and it'sone of those places that people
just want to check off of theirlist.
They want their photo holdingthe tower.
There are photos holding thetower.
Pisa is really overcrowded.
(08:35):
It's just that one littlesquare.
Yeah, they come in and they puttheir hand against it and lean
and everyone's holding it up andyou see hundreds of people with
their hand up, and it's kind offunny just for that.
If people are not interested in going in and doing
the whole experience, I oftensuggest that they go at night to
(08:56):
see Pisa, because the Piazzadei Miracoli is beautiful at
night and there's a lot lesspeople.
Because that rush of the cruiseship effect right, the in and
out is gone.
Is it worth seeing?
Lea Lane (09:09):
Absolutely it depends on how much time you have.
So I just want to mention,speaking of time, you want to go
to see a couple of hill townsif possible, because that is so
much a part of Tuscany with thegorgeous countryside.
Which two, if you're going topick two, would you say?
Everyone loves San Gimignano Ican't even say it correctly.
With the tall, tall towers,it's very crowded sometimes.
(09:30):
Also, with 14 towers, therewere 170 there.
It was a powerful place.
Tano (09:36):
What do you feel
Lea Lane (09:36):
about it?
Tano (09:37):
San Gimignano is is really convenient if you're leaving
Florence because it's close toFlorence, so I think it's a good
stopover to make.
I feel like i.
it's not as maybe genuinefeeling as other towns, because
it's so close to Florence thatit gets too much foot traffic
throughout the day, but it is abeautiful experience to go as a
jaunt from Florence.
The two that I think are mostspecial are the two in the Val
d'Orcia, near Siena, which areMontepulciano and Montalcino.
Lea Lane (10:00):
Yes, that's a gorgeous area.
Nicole (10:02):
Absolutely beautiful.
And number three to that Iwould just say is Pienza.
Pienza is probably one of myfavorites.
I think it's so charming and Ilove Pienza.
I think the views of the ValOrcia from Pienza.
I prefer Pienza toMontepulciano in terms of a town
, but Montepulciano is often soimportant because it's a landing
base when we do a lot of wineand gastronomy tours.
(10:23):
Fabulous wine, and Montalcinois our favorite, little Cortona.
Lea Lane (10:32):
It's an attractive town so I wanted to.
Tano (10:37):
It's a wonderful town.
It has a lot of history relatedto St Francis of Assisi as well
.
you know did a lot of his workaround that area.
It kind of blends Tuscany withmore of a natural forest feeling
to it.
It's really on the cusp betweenTuscany and Umbria, so it's a
great place to stay as adeparture point to explore both
the regions.
Lea Lane (10:56):
Right, so let's mention Umbria.
It's known for the forest, asyou mentioned.
It's much greener.
It's called the Green Heart ofItaly by many and it has a
different look, very beautifulas well.
There are medieval hill townsand delicious local cuisine.
Tell us about Assisi.
Let's start there.
Nicole (11:13):
I think you should talk about Assisi because he goes
there a lot with our clients.
He does food tours around thatarea a lot.
Tano (11:19):
Assisi is such an important place for people to
visit because of its religioushistory.
St Francis of Assisi isprobably the most well-known
saint in the world.
The basilica is incredible,with some masterpieces from the
medieval period, from Giotto,among others, and the double
basilica is really unique to see, and the entire town has been
born out of the cult of StFrancis.
It has dozens of churches,palaces.
(11:40):
Even St Clair and all herorders are in Assisi.
Even down valley you can visitthe original Porziuncola, the
house that he built with his ownhands, that they built this
mega church on top of now.
So you see this tiny littlehome that he built with his
hands and they built thisenormous cathedral over.
With this massive dome thattowers the region.
You can get lost in the woodsof St Francis, where he used to
(12:02):
walk around and allegedly speakto animals.
So it really is an enchantingplace to visit.
Of course, you have to becareful to make sure you're not
going during a religious holidayor a jubilee event, because you
could be stuck waiting forhours to move around.
Lea Lane (12:19):
Yeah, Nowadays we do want to always say, if you can
go off season off hours, youknow, unless there's something
specific, like we mentioned,some festivals but it's much,
much better to try to go off.
Nearby is Perugia, a beautifultown.
It's known for its chocolates.
I remember them and I went to ajazz festival there many years
ago, which was fantastic.
They had jazz all through thepiazzas and buildings and it was
(12:43):
just a great, famous jazzfestival.
Anything else to say aboutPerugia.
Nicole (12:46):
Well, Perugia is technically the capital of
Umbria, so when it comes tologistics, people often can land
there.
Trains as well service, andthere are a couple of hotels
that we work with in Perugiathat we love.
I find that Perugia it's notnecessarily the beating heart of
Umbria.
I think that the hilltop townsare more, but Perugia has so
(13:07):
much to offer.
There's this one placespecifically.
Tano always calls it the Game ofThrones.
Tano (13:13):
Perugia is built on top of the hill.
You have to get to theAcropolis on top.
It has Roman origins.
The historic center isabsolutely unbelievable with
13th century churches, all ofthese palaces that hearken back
to Perugia.
Perugia was under control ofthe Vatican States for a
thousand years.
There's these halls you canvisit, where you see all the
frescoes of all the families youknow that used to come together
(13:34):
as a guild to decide what to dovis-a-vis the Vatican, leave
the Vatican.
Perugia also famously fought awar against the Vatican states
on the tax on salt, which is why, to this day, Umbrian bread is
not salted.
Lea Lane (13:51):
So all these historical things you can tie
back to the city.
We're getting great tips.
I have to mention another city,the city you live in, Orvieto.
That's a beautiful, beautifulcathedral.
I think it's one of the mostbeautiful ever.
If you look at the detailing onit, the facade, and inside, you
know Orvieto.
Nicole (14:05):
Okay.
So Orvieto when everyone comeshere, they don't know what to
expect because it does look likethis little Tuscan town.
I think we've brought at leastover 400 people to Orvieto
specifically.
Everyone is always so blownaway by how charming it is, how
many stores there are, boutiquesthere are.
The Duomo is, of course, theDuomo and there's the Pozo di
(14:28):
San Patricio, but there's thewhole underground.
There's the Etruscan Caves,where I've actually planned a
party in one of the EtruscanCaves for like a bachelorette
moment.
Vineyards all around.
This is a wine town, OrvietoClassico, but people in this
area love food, love gastronomy.
So Orvieto has all these coollittle bars and eateries and
(14:51):
places and in high seasonthere's things going on in
Orvieto.
Tano (14:56):
There's the medieval festival which matches up with
the holiday of Orvieto, which isthe Corpus Christi.
Nicole (15:01):
Yeah, the Corpus Christi .
Tano (15:02):
Yeah, the corpus christi because the church was built for
eucharistic miracle in 1292.
So that's why the wholefestival and everyone dresses in
costume and there's music andthey parade around the city even
winter, take out the relic ofthe of the eucharist, when the
blood drops during the ceremony.
Lea Lane (15:19):
It's one of the best festivals in terms of costuming
and so forth.
Nicole (15:24):
Orvieto is truly one of Umbria's most impressive towns.
You can walk along the rupe,which are basically these
Etruscan walls that hold thecity up.
You can hike around it.
There are two hotels that Iwould love to shout out to in
(15:44):
Orvieto.
One is Palazzo Michatelli andthe other one is Palazzo Petrus.
They're both boutique hotels,five-star, unbelievable service.
They're both family-owned, verydifferent.
But if anyone ever wanted tostay in Orvieto anywhere, those
two hotels would be where Iwould always recommend them
staying.
And then, similar to that,there is a beautiful, beautiful
(16:06):
vineyard called LocandaPalazzone, which is five minutes
outside the city center in thehills.
That is the entire reason whywe live here, because I fell in
love with this place and thenended up planning a wedding for
a client here there and then wejust stayed.
We just never left,
Lea Lane (16:23):
Of course, all around our hilltop towns, tiny towns.
When you drive around you seethem on the tops of the hills.
We stayed in one called Spello,which is one of the prettiest
villages in all of Italy.
There's a festival there, theInfiorate --I'm not going to say
that right-- where they putcarpets of flower petals all
through the streets and thereare usually flowers all over.
But many of the towns there areoriginally.
(16:47):
o's one of them, Todi, isanother where you see Roman
ruins.
And then there's Gubbio, whichis a very lovely town as well.
We rented a place.
There are rentals, you can stayin B&Bs or there are all kinds
of ways to stay in these littletowns and be a part of them.
Nicole (17:09):
So we do a lot of villa rentals for our clients, like
week long or more when it'sshort stays.
We work mostly with hotels andfour star five star hotels.
I think it's fun if you want tohop around.
It's like island hopping, butfor Umbria it's hilltop town
hopping, absolutely.
We do a couple of nights here,a couple of nights.
They look like islands on topof the hills.
It's almost like anarchipelligo of hilltops right.
Lea Lane (17:30):
I mean you want to go to each one because as you look
at them, they all have thatwonderful look, but they're all
a little bit different, so it isfun to hop around if you can do
that.
Nicole (17:39):
Or some people prefer to have a home base and then do
day trip which is also, there'sgood train service.
Lea Lane (17:47):
Right, there's very good train service around from
the major cities.
Then you have to sort of workit out.
But some of the towns are amile away from each other and
you could walk.
I know at Spello you could walkto another town in about a mile
.
Nicole (17:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Worth mentioning in Umbria isthe waterfalls which nobody
knows about.
Yes, yes, but there's thisunbelievable waterfall park.
People go to Croatia for thewaterfalls, come to Umbria
because we've got them too.
Tano (18:10):
Cascata delle Marmore.
Nicole (18:12):
The Cascata delle Marmore and the wonderful lake.
Yes yes, exactly.
We are so lucky that we get tomilk this destination for
everything it's worth with ourclients.
You latte it.
Yes, with our travel clients.
This year I'm planning twodestination weddings here.
(18:33):
One is in Elopo and one is awedding with this fantastic
collaborator I have with twoproperties here, Pietra Campana
and Torre Colevento, which arestunning four-star properties I
think are worth everything.
They're just so precious andhomey and family run.
Yeah, I'm in love with Orvieto.
So you're, you know you'reasking people who have
(18:54):
completely uprooted their wholelives here.
Lea Lane (18:57):
It's very hard not to fall in love, If you don't do
that, I'll tell you, yes, youwant to go back.
So the slow food movement whichstarted in the area this
Tuscany and all that area is avery important movement around
the world now.
And just mention a few of thefoods of Tuscany and Umbria.
I know it's a lot of game andmeat and it's heavy, but it's
delicious.
What would you not miss Acouple of this is a great thing
(19:19):
for me.
Tano (19:19):
I'm a slow food member.
You know I go to all theirevents whenever I can.
Orvieto is a slow food city andI'm really supportive all the
work they do in preservinghistorical products and allowing
artisanal producers to stillproduce their products and have
market and have some support.
So in umbria the biggest thingto do is, I think, porchetta,
which is the typical fullyrolled, deboned, stuffed pig,
(19:41):
and there's actually a porchettaslow food festival called
porchettiano in San Terenziano,which is close to Todi in August
.
It cannot be missed.
All the best porchetta from allof Umbria and Rome and even
Tuscany, come and meet and youhave, you can eat them all.
The typical food of Perugia iscalled la torta al testo, this
round kind of bread which isstuffed with pig fat inside,
(20:03):
which goes back to the Romantimes.
But the typical pasta of Umbriais the umbricarlo, which is
like a water and flour freshspaghetti and we actually
collaborate with locals here inOrvieto to host cooking classes
where our clients and otherclients can come by and make all
of these foods.
Nicole (20:21):
Our cooking classes.
What makes them different isthat we're going inside the
homes of people from Umbria, soit's not like a cooking studio
or something generic.
Incredible home cooks, italianwomen to open the doors at home.
It makes for a really, reallyincredible experience.
Lea Lane (20:36):
Yeah, it is, I think, cooking in that region.
I know many people who havedone it.
They go for a week or two andwell, some people like to paint
and some people like to do manyother things, but cooking is a
big deal and the food is very,very delicious.
Rich, you know truffles andmushrooms and meat.
It's heavy, and with the wines,come on, how can you beat it?
Tano (20:58):
And the same with Tuscany.
It's very famous for its beef,la bistecca, la fiorentina for
the big white pianina, maremmacows.
Also there's the tordello,which is like a big tortellino
which is stuffed with beef, andit's served in a beef ragu, very
hearty food.
There's a wonderful festival oftordello outside Lucca that they
(21:19):
do every June.
You can go and try all thesedifferent torrtelini, all the
local grandmas make in one place.
You know, Tuscany is known forits use of liver.
You know livers, pate, crostini, and it's such a normal part of
day-to-day life that evenchildren here have no problems.
Delicious.
One of the best steakhouses inthe world is in the town of
(21:41):
Saturnia in Tuscany.
It's ranked number seven or sixin the world and they have all
these amazing Italian varietiesof international cows and they
serve it in a very Tuscan style.
It means you can't get anythingmore than rare they don't ask
you.
Nicole (21:58):
This steakhouse.
It's called Iduecipi, it's inSaturnia, it is phenomenal.
The number seven steakhouse inthe discovery is endless, of
(22:22):
central Italy, speaking toTuscany and Umbria as a whole
because, as you know, the bordergoes like a squiggly line.
Lea Lane (22:31):
Yes, and it's very beautiful.
I just want to say there arecertain roads that are
especially beautiful.
If you're going to go betweenthe two, check it out.
There are a couple of roadsthat are exceptionally gorgeous
which we have taken.
It's worth it.
It's an hour or two of driving,but it's so, so pretty and you
see the difference between theTuscan countryside and the
Umbrian countryside.
They're both gorgeous, but thechanges are very interesting as
(22:52):
you drive.
If you can rent a car or bikeor whatever.
Whatever way you do it, I justyou know I'm thinking of it
right now.
I'm walking in Spello with agelato of roses or something I
remember.
The flavors were all so floral.
It's wonderful.
So Tuscany and Umbria aredestinations you can return to
year after year.
There's so much to see and do.
The name of the Podcast isPlaces I Remember, so I want to
(23:16):
ask you, Nicole and Tano, canyou share a special personal
memory of your beloved region?
Nicole (23:22):
Well, we got married here.
We got married in the Duomo ofOrvieto and we had the reception
at a castle called Castello diTorre Alfina.
The night before, we had ourwelcome event at Locanda
Palazzone, which was thatvineyard that I was speaking
about, and that evening I had mybachelorette party in an
(23:46):
Etruscan cave with my girls.
Lea Lane (23:48):
Oh my goodness, it's a destination wedding.
I doubt if anyone didn't showup.
Nicole (23:53):
Oh yeah, the day after we had a beautiful brunch at
Palazzo Petrus, which is thisgorgeous hotel palazzo in the
city center of Orvieto.
I mean, this is what I doprofessionally, this is what we
do, but part of our memory ofthis, which is so special to us,
is that we really wanted totogether design a wedding that
was our love letter to Orvietoand for all of our closest
(24:17):
friends and family to experienceit, and the best compliment we
got was that I feel like we gotto see Orvieto from so many
different angles.
To get married in the Duomo isquite the experience.
There's no privatizing theDuomo.
You cannot get rid of thetourists and you have to go
through a zillion things when itcomes to bureaucracy and
(24:39):
paperwork, but I married alawyer and he really, really,
really helped.
Lea Lane (24:45):
Well, nothing's perfect, right?
Nicole (24:47):
That's okay too, no but it was worth it and this place
will always be important to us,whether or not we stay here in
our lives.
I mean, that's truly somethingwe will it's a great memory.
Lea Lane (24:59):
It's a great memory to imagine, let alone to go
through it.
So congratulations on bothhaving a wonderful wedding in
the most perfect place I canthink of.
I want to thank you very much,Nicole and Tano, founders of
Bono Events International, andyou make us really want to go
there, and you've given us somegreat tips too.
When you go to a place likethis, it's so popular you do
(25:22):
need to study it a bit and totry to think about it ahead of
time to make the most of it.
Spend as much time as youpossibly can.
Nicole (25:29):
It's really worth it.
We would love to take youaround for a spin.
Lea Lane (25:35):
I'd love it.
Thank you for so much, Joy.
Thank you, thank you.
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