July 18, 2023 • 23 mins
We find monumental beauty and hidden treasures traversing Montana's rugged terrain and vibrant activities with our guest, former Montanan Greg Correll. We discuss Montana's past, including the Louisiana Purchase and the displacement of Native Americans. Saunter through the streets of Helena, Montana's capital, and experience life in the cowboy town of Billings. And bask in the grandeur of Montana's plains and mountains while Greg paints a vivid picture of this awe-inspiring state.
We explore Yellowstone and Glacier National Park, and Native American reserves. From Montana's ghost towns, rodeos, iconic dude ranches, to its imposing mountains to its beloved cattle ranches, Big Sky Country represents Americana. Greg ends with a stunning memory at a Native American powwow.
_____
Greg Correll lived in Montana, and is an artist, writer, and CEO of Small Packages Inc., a New York-based website design, development and marketing company. He is the producer of Places I Remember!
_____
Podcast host Lea Lane blogs at forbes.com, has traveled to over 100 countries, and has written nine books, including the award-winning Places I Remember (Kirkus Reviews star rating, and 'one of the top 100 Indie books' of the year). She has contributed to many guidebooks and has written thousands of travel articles.
Contact Lea- she loves hearing from you! @lealane on Twitter; PlacesIRememberLeaLane on Insta; Places I Remember with Lea Lane on Facebook; Website: placesirememberlealane.com.
New episodes drop every other Tuesday, wherever you listen. Please consider sharing, following, rating and reviewing this award-winning travel podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lea Lane (00:00):
The state of Montana is famous for its natural beauty
.
Its name is derived from theSpanish Montana or mountain, and
indeed the Rocky Mountains arepart of that beauty.
Only three states -- Alaska,Texas and California have an
area larger than Montana's, andonly two states, Alaska and
Wyoming have a lower populationdensity.
(00:21):
So the Big Sky Country ofMontana offers lots and lots of
unspoiled nature for travelersto enjoy.
Montana's national parks, suchas Yellowstone and Glacier, are
major draws for tourists fromaround the world.
Montana also has ski resorts,fishing and hunting
opportunities, vibrant arts anda cultural scene.
Before we talk with our guestabout what travelers shouldn't
(00:44):
miss in Montana, here are a fewinteresting facts and a bit of
history about the state.
Most of Montana was obtained bythe US through the Louisiana
Purchase of 1803, the Lewis andClark Expedition of 1804 to 1806
explored Montana.
Gold was discovered in theearly 1860s and the grazing of
cattle and sheep was introducedlater that decade, leading to
(01:07):
bitter battles with the NativeAmericans, whose hunting grounds
were destroyed.
Montana Territory wasestablished in 1864, and though
they defeated and killed the UStroops of George Armstrong
Custer at the Battle of LittleBighorn in 1876, the Native
Americans ceased fighting in1877 and were placed on
reservations.
(01:27):
In spite of its northernlocation, Montana is very much a
Western state.
By 1889, when it became the41st state of the Union, the
cattle drive was an institutionand Montana had begun to emerge
as one of the country's leadingcopper mining centers.
But today, mainly because ofits vast open spaces and natural
(01:48):
beauty, Montana's economyemphasizes tourism.
Our guest is Greg Correllartist, writer, editor, poet,
computer whiz, CEO with SmallPackages Inc, a marketing and
design company, and the producerof Places I Remember.
I'm so happy to talk with you,Greg, and share your memories
(02:08):
about a place you love.
Greg Correll (02:10):
Thanks, Lea.
Lea Lane (02:11):
Let's start with your special connection to Montana.
Greg Correll (02:14):
I started going to Montana when I was a young
teenager.
It was possible back in thelate 60s and early 70s for teens
to hitchhike across thiscountry.
It was an odd moment in ourhistory and I loved backpacking,
like most kids who grew up inflat Kansas.
The Montana mountains weremythic and pulled us from our
(02:38):
eastern flat land to go west.
So as soon as I could get outthere I did.
I want to contrast Montana withColorado in an important way.
Colorado was my firstacquaintance with the Rocky
Mountains, but Colorado has asort of squished-together
quality.
The mountains in Montana arerugged and solitary in many
(03:00):
cases and full of beautiful,distinctive formations.
Colorado, except the San JuanMountains in the southwest, are
sort of pushed all together, soyou don't get the drama.
I'll say one particular viewwas one of the most impressive
things I ever saw, and I'd beencoming to Montana for years.
In the late 70s I traveled upto the northern part of Glacier
(03:24):
Park and then I went acrossgoing to the Sun Road, which is
a gorgeous high road thattraverses the park, but you come
down in the eastern end.
Well, the eastern side ofGlacier Park offers a view of
those mountains that you don'tsee even from the west.
They're rising literally out ofthe flat plains straight up,
(03:46):
hardly any intervening foothillsor badlands or whatever.
The drama of it is unparalleled.
Lea Lane (03:53):
Right.
I know that the Great Plainsarea to the east of Montana is a
very different geographicalterrain.
The contrast is what's special,I think, as you mentioned here,
to see it coming up from thoseplains.
Greg Correll (04:07):
Yes, the plains of Montana are "better plains.
The plains of Nebraska andKansas and parts of Wyoming etc.
are flatlands with only acertain amount of badlands, of
interesting lower elevationterrain.
But Montana there's a few flatareas but there's interesting
(04:28):
terrain everywhere scablands,badlands, small, subtle mountain
ranges, gigantic drama.
They have a thing called theChinese Wall just south of
Glacier Park.
That's astonishing when a largepiece of land angles up and
then erosion will carve littlecanyons into it.
Lea Lane (04:50):
Wow, I remember golden grainfields as well when
driving around the plains area.
Very beautiful colors.
Montana's capital is Helena.
The main street is called LastChance Gulch, which is the
city's original name.
It's a reminder of theprospectors who invaded the
surrounding hills in the 1860sto pan for gold.
Today there's a very livelydowntown with micro breweries
(05:13):
and theater and symphony.
What makes Helena special toyou?
Greg Correll (05:16):
One of the first things you notice about Helena
is that it's a different terrainthan much of the more dramatic
mountains around it.
The word is friendly pinecovered hills, some of them
rounded, all of them set inchaotic, picturesque disorder.
It feels wild but it feelshomey in a way that most of the
(05:38):
other cities around Montanadon't feel.
They're usually set in dramaticflat areas with mountains near
them.
They're not as embedded in themountains as Helena is.
It's got a little bit of thatSan Francisco feel of hills
throughout the town.
Lea Lane (05:54):
Let's talk about a few of the other cities.
You can give us your quick take.
What about Billings in southernMontana, on the Yellowstone
River?
Greg Correll (06:01):
Well, keep it simple.
Billings is a cowboy town, ofcourse, and it's not in the
mountains per se.
There's beautiful badlands nearit.
Billings is a great place to goif you want to see a rodeo.
Lea Lane (06:14):
Tell us about a rodeo in Montana.
Greg Correll (06:16):
Oh man, The good spirit of a rodeo.
everybody's ready to say hello,Everybody's ready to engage
with you.
I never felt isolated or and Iwas obviously a hippy at the
time.
It wasn't obvious to me, Andit's beautiful to see.
I know that.
Lea Lane (06:34):
What are some of the things that you see at a rodeo.
I went to one rodeo in Montana.
I remember the clowns.
They were running around.
They were getting hit in thebackside because they would try
to distract, i guess, some ofthe animals that were acting up
a little.
But that was my memory mostlyis a boisterous clown, cowboy,
bucking horses and so forth.
(06:54):
What else is there to rodeo?
Greg Correll (06:55):
That's energy.
Well, you know, the animalsrule the day.
It's not the humans that rule arodeo, it's the animals.
So you know, you grow toappreciate what someone is able
to do to stay on a beast, butyou're really watching the beast
.
Another thing about rodeos isthey love children.
Every rodeo I've ever been tohad smaller animals, little
events, roping at calves, andit's hilarity at a grand scale
(07:20):
to watch these kids go out thereand try this.
It's safe, it's rugged work butit's safe for these kids.
That's a wonderful feelingabout a rodeo to feel that
you're in an inclusive sort ofthing.
All ages participate, all agesare involved And as far as that
goes, at least in Montana,everyone is there.
It's rather beautiful to be apart of.
Lea Lane (07:40):
Is it all through the year?
Greg Correll (07:42):
There's rodeo season.
Some people say about northernMontana that they have two
seasons, winter and late July,so rodeos year round would be a
problematic thing.
Lea Lane (07:55):
Well, that sounds like fun.
A couple of the other cities Ijust want to mention Missoula,
which is in western Montana,which has a lot of historical
buildings, including 1877 FortMissoula.
It has art museums andbeautiful trails that go through
the mountains near there.
And then Bozeman, which is insouthern Montana.
(08:16):
I spent some time there.
It's in the Rocky Mountains andit has Montana State University
with a wonderful dinosaurmuseum.
I think the kids would lovethat when I was really impressed
with it.
And outside of it is thesmallest park in Montana.
It's a state park.
It has less than an acre ofland.
It's technically called a ghosttown.
It's Elkhorn State Park.
(08:37):
There are two buildings in it,but the rest is considered a
ghost town.
Have you been to a ghost town?
Greg Correll (08:42):
I've been to several ghost towns throughout
the West.
The most memorable ones werenot in Montana, i think partly
because the Southwestern part ofthe United States preserves
ghost towns better than Montanacan.
Lea Lane (08:57):
Well, there are over 60 ghost towns in Montana.
I read that and I was at onein Virginia City, which was
quite a popular one because it'snot far from Yellowstone
National Park, and it wasfascinating.
It's frozen in time, there'slots of stores and stuff.
It's not like there's nothingto do.
There's lots to do, but thefeeling is very much that this
was once a thriving community.
(09:17):
And it's a very special part, ithink, of my visit to that
state.
About the parks (09:22):
a large proportion of Montana's land is
given over to state and nationalparks and monuments and forests
and recreational areas.
You can hike at camp and huntand canoe and, of course, the
best fly fishing in the world.
Greg Correll (09:38):
Glacier National Park holds a special place in my
heart.
I started going there, as Isaid, when I was a teenager and
I realized how unique Glacier is.
The mountains there aredifferent.
They're in a sense more likethe Swiss Alps.
They're giant pyramid shapesthat are pushed together along
the divide.
The divide runs all the wayfrom the south to the north end
(10:02):
of the park.
Waterton Peace Park is actuallya part of this, but it's
located in Canada And it's allone contiguous range of
mountains that are the mostdramatic in Montana.
The glaciers, unfortunately, arestarting to melt and they're
continuing to melt and expect tobe melting for quite some time.
(10:23):
But the park itself isextraordinarily beautiful when
you come in from either the westor the east.
Most come in from west glacier.
You pass Lake McDonald, agigantic lake surrounded by
three sides by enormousmountains, and then you go up
across the spine of thecontinental divide and enormous
(10:46):
switchbacks.
One of the things that surprisesmost visitors is the sheer
number of waterfalls.
Glacier Park and the BobMarshall Wilderness south of it,
the Swan Mountain area, all ofthese mountains are full, full
of waterfalls.
Living here in the east you cantravel to, i can go up the hill
(11:07):
here in New York and see awaterfall, or I can travel north
into Adirondacks and pick acouple of waterfalls to see.
But in glacier there's awaterfall every couple of
hundred feet, and some of themcan be a couple of hundred feet
high.
These very high mountains 10,11,000 feet, and they come right
down to the 6,000, 5,000, 4,000foot level of the road, with
(11:31):
hardly any foothills, and soyou're seeing just cascade after
cascade.
Lea Lane (11:36):
A lot of that, unfortunately, is coming from
melting.
Greg Correll (11:39):
Yes.
Lea Lane (11:40):
It's still beautiful.
Greg Correll (11:41):
Glacier scrapes the moisture out of the air
before it goes further east, sothey get a great deal of snow,
they get a great deal of water.
Lea Lane (11:49):
Tell me about Yellowstone.
I know it's shared with Wyoming.
How does that work?
Greg Correll (11:54):
There's a sliver of the park.
That's in Montana.
Mostly what you've got isentrance from the north and from
the west via Montana, and it'samong the most popular ways to
get there because you can flyinto Bozeman, you can fly into
various Spokane, Washington,just across the border.
(12:14):
People do that and then theydrive down, so most people are
coming from the west there.
Yellowstone is different.
If you're expecting to seedramatic, endless mountain high
mountains, you're going to be alittle disappointed because
Yellowstone exists for itsunique features.
A whole bunch of them the hotpools that you can see, geysers,
(12:36):
the strange sulfurous canyonthat is Yellowstone falls, the
huge numbers of wildlife inYellowstone.
So it's more of a multi-variousexperience.
You're not going to find thesame experience for hiking
trails, for instance.
In Yellowstone.
There are some traditional goup to a mountain and come back
(12:59):
down again, but for the mostpart these trails go in and out
the more interesting lower level, lower elevation features of
the park.
Lea Lane (13:07):
Yeah, it's very stunning.
Wyoming would take credit formost of it, as you said, but
Montana is an entrance to it andworth seeking out.
if you have not been, it iscrowded during tourist season, i
would say.
if you can possibly go outsideof that, that would be a very
big tip Now.
at the time of Europeansettlement of the region,
(13:27):
Montana was inhabited by variousNative American peoples,
including the Cheyenne,Blackfoot, Katanik and Crow.
Montana has seven Indianreservations and Native
Americans constitute more thanone-tenth of the state's total
population.
Nearly two-thirds of them liveon the reservations and most of
the rest in the cities near them, notably Missoula, Great Falls
(13:49):
and Billings.
Have you been to a NativeAmerican gathering?
Greg Correll (13:53):
Oh many.
First thing you got to knowabout it is that if you are a
respectful and calm human beingyou are welcome on these
reservations, flat out.
I've been to reservations inthe Southwest and it's different
.
I didn't feel as welcomed.
The Indian reservations inMontana are, if not unique,
close to it because they arestill living on their ancestral
(14:16):
lands as opposed to having beenmoved to a poorer corner of
their lands or even off theirtraditional lands altogether.
The most fun of the reservationsto me is the Kutane Salish, who
are known as flathead Indians.
They used to press them withboards to flatten aesthetically
(14:36):
their heads.
The Kutane Salish tribe is avery friendly and welcoming
tribe and they're located justnorth of Missoula, going all the
way up to Glacier.
So you sort of have toencounter the Kutane Salish
Indians if you're going north togo to Glacier when you're
driving through.
I remember the first time Iwent on their reservation to go
(14:57):
fishing up in the MissionMountains there the pickup
truck that I was in was on thislonely little road heading
toward the missions and anotherpickup truck started coming
toward me and it was full ofIndians, full of residents, and
they slowed way down and so Iassumed they wanted me to slow
down.
So we slowed way down and theysaid hello.
They waved and they gave mesmiles and there was (a kind of
(15:19):
I like the old movies wherethey'd be cutting tomahawk right
You go right to it other thanto say you're on our reservation
, perhaps, and we need to get agood look at you and you look
like a good guy, so have a niceday.
Lea Lane (15:32):
It was pretty wonderful.
Greg Correll (15:33):
Now.
I've also been to roundups andto powwows and they are
wonderful.
Lea Lane (15:40):
What is a powwow specifically?
Greg Correll (15:42):
It's a drumming and it's a circular dance and
it's done for different purposesand reasons and I think it's
probably different between eachtribe.
But it is a time of costume,song and dance and lots of
energy, lots of food, lots oftalking and laughing and
(16:04):
beautiful native headdress andthe women members of the tribe
wear elegant, beautiful outfits.
Lea Lane (16:11):
Well sounds terrific and something not to miss when
you go to Montana.
There are lots of festivals.
Square dance is popular,fiddling is popular.
I remember I was panning forsapphires, because it's called
the Treasure state.
They weren't looking like thetwinkly ones you put on your
hand, they were like rocks.
I don't think they were worthvery much, but it was lots of
(16:32):
fun to do that.
That was something I stillremember.
I had about six of them.
I probably have them somewhere.
They're like little blue stonesbut they're not what you think
of.
But there's so much fun.
There's lots of minerals thereand lots of things of that sort
to do too.
How about dude ranches?
I went to a dude ranchwonderful places for families
especially, of course.
You go horseback riding and youcan go on cattle drives.
(16:53):
Have you been to one of those?
Greg Correll (16:55):
I've never been.
I knew people who worked atdude ranches in a couple of
places in Montana When I washippie and making my way up
there, dude ranches were sort ofanathema to me.
That was what the safe peopledid As I become an older safe
person.
Lea Lane (17:14):
You joined us in the dude ranch.
Greg Correll (17:17):
I might join you at the dude ranch.
It would be a lot of fun.
Lea Lane (17:19):
You can go from simple to luxury.
That's a nice thing aboutMontana.
Every kind of accommodation,from camping up to the top, top
luxury, five star, seven starresorts because it is so
beautiful, you get everybody whowants to enjoy it.
The cattle ranch is anotherplace you can stay.
That's even more authentic.
You can go on trail rides andyou can help calve and lamb in
(17:41):
the spring.
You can ride herd in the summer.
You're a part of the team there.
That's something that you mightwant to look into.
It's a real working ranch.
A lot of them are now open totourists.
I would check that out.
What do you say is unique aboutMontana?
All the places you've been inthe states?
Greg Correll (17:59):
I've alluded to the differences in the mountains
.
I want to make another set ofpoints about it.
What most folks don't realizeis that there's a great deal
more mountain and state park andeven national park than just
Glacier and the little bit ofYellowstone.
Down there.
There's the Bob Marshallwilderness area, there are the
(18:19):
Cabinet mountains, the Sapphiremountains, the Garnet range, the
Purcell mountains.
All of these mountain areashave very few people living in
them.
There's a quality to Montanathat I've not found anywhere
else, except in certain placesin Nevada, which doesn't really
count because Nevada is just,for the most part, empty.
It's high desert and empty.
(18:40):
What you find in Montana isthat you can go for 30 or 40
miles on many of the mountainroads and never see another road
, never see a turnoff for adriveway.
This is like Alaska.
This is an empty state full ofbeauty.
Lea Lane (19:00):
Big Sky Country.
Big Sky Country.
Greg Correll (19:03):
There's another thing too I wanted to say, which
is south of Glacier.
there are unusual mountainformations all the way down to
the southern end of the state.
The Swan Valley, between themissions and the Swan range, is
one of the real secret beautiesof Montana.
It has almost nothing in it,there are very few developments,
(19:23):
and it has high mountains, themission mountains, the holy
center of the world for theKutany salish D and the Swan
mountains, which are a gentlerand very beautiful range of
mountains.
Then this lovely valley thatgoes right up to the north,
right up to Columbia Falls andWest Glacier.
Then you cross the Swanmountains and you've got a very
(19:43):
similar thing.
You've got a Chinese wall thatgoes from north to south and the
Flathead range that merges withit to the north, these mountain
ranges.
as you drive along them, it islike a world created just for
you that day.
The only areas in Montana thathave any kind of traffic are up
around Glacier a little bit anda whole lot down at Yellowstone.
You're not going to see a lotof people on the road in Montana
(20:07):
.
Lea Lane (20:07):
You'll see a lot of animals.
You see lots of wildlife That'ssomething I want to mention too
.
Tremendous amounts of animals,of course, bison in certain
areas, but just all kinds ofanimals all along, because it's
a haven, it's a beautiful placefor all.
Well, the name of the podcastis Places I Remember.
Greg, can you please share onemore special memory of Montana?
Greg Correll (20:29):
There's a place called Lolo Pass southwest of
Missoula.
This is a secret about Montana.
If you cross Lolo Pass you willfind a whole area o along the
Bitterroot Mountains there inthe southwest, a whole area full
of wild natural hot springsthat you can sit in like a hot
(20:50):
tub.
That's worth mentioning.
I had to get that in there.
Now I'm going to tell you myspecial memory.
I took my daughter, who was four, my first born daughter up to
the reservation for a powwow onher birthday, the 4th of July,
the last year I lived in Montanabefore I came east.
It was a beautiful day.
I was up there with a friendand her daughter.
(21:11):
Our kids at one point wereinvited out to march.
Someone said you kids want tocome.
They went out into the largecircle and just circled it and
circled it and circled it,stamping their feet, just as it
came to a conclusion and thepeople in the stands were
walking down and joining withthe people who had been marching
(21:33):
.
It began to snow.
It was the 4th of July and itwas warm, but coming off the
missions, coming out of the east, a set of clouds came over and
it just began dropping sparklinglittle snowflakes on us in the
middle of the 4th of July heat,it was beautiful.
Lea Lane (21:51):
A rain dance, but a snow dance.
Greg Correll (21:54):
You suddenly felt like you were in some way
physically connected to the topsof those peaks.
Just to the east.
There was this sense of thatIndian idea of being connected
to the world and itscapabilities and its processes.
Lea Lane (22:09):
Beautiful, beautiful memory.
Well, thank you, Greg Corrrell.
Your memories and yourdescriptions of Montana show
that you are indeed an artistand a writer.
I'm so fortunate as well thatyou are producer of this show
and I get to work with you andshare memories all the time, So
a big thank you for that as well.
See you soon, (Okay thanks, Lea, bye-bye.
The state of Montana is famous for its natural beauty
.
Its name is derived from theSpanish Montana or mountain, and
indeed the Rocky Mountains arepart of that beauty.
Only three states -- Alaska,Texas and California have an
area larger than Montana's, andonly two states, Alaska and
Wyoming have a lower populationdensity.
(00:21):
So the Big Sky Country ofMontana offers lots and lots of
unspoiled nature for travelersto enjoy.
Montana's national parks, suchas Yellowstone and Glacier, are
major draws for tourists fromaround the world.
Montana also has ski resorts,fishing and hunting
opportunities, vibrant arts anda cultural scene.
Before we talk with our guestabout what travelers shouldn't
(00:44):
miss in Montana, here are a fewinteresting facts and a bit of
history about the state.
Most of Montana was obtained bythe US through the Louisiana
Purchase of 1803, the Lewis andClark Expedition of 1804 to 1806
explored Montana.
Gold was discovered in theearly 1860s and the grazing of
cattle and sheep was introducedlater that decade, leading to
(01:07):
bitter battles with the NativeAmericans, whose hunting grounds
were destroyed.
Montana Territory wasestablished in 1864, and though
they defeated and killed the UStroops of George Armstrong
Custer at the Battle of LittleBighorn in 1876, the Native
Americans ceased fighting in1877 and were placed on
reservations.
(01:27):
In spite of its northernlocation, Montana is very much a
Western state.
By 1889, when it became the41st state of the Union, the
cattle drive was an institutionand Montana had begun to emerge
as one of the country's leadingcopper mining centers.
But today, mainly because ofits vast open spaces and natural
(01:48):
beauty, Montana's economyemphasizes tourism.
Our guest is Greg Correllartist, writer, editor, poet,
computer whiz, CEO with SmallPackages Inc, a marketing and
design company, and the producerof Places I Remember.
I'm so happy to talk with you,Greg, and share your memories
(02:08):
about a place you love.
Greg Correll (02:10):
Thanks, Lea.
Lea Lane (02:11):
Let's start with your special connection to Montana.
Greg Correll (02:14):
I started going to Montana when I was a young
teenager.
It was possible back in thelate 60s and early 70s for teens
to hitchhike across thiscountry.
It was an odd moment in ourhistory and I loved backpacking,
like most kids who grew up inflat Kansas.
The Montana mountains weremythic and pulled us from our
(02:38):
eastern flat land to go west.
So as soon as I could get outthere I did.
I want to contrast Montana withColorado in an important way.
Colorado was my firstacquaintance with the Rocky
Mountains, but Colorado has asort of squished-together
quality.
The mountains in Montana arerugged and solitary in many
(03:00):
cases and full of beautiful,distinctive formations.
Colorado, except the San JuanMountains in the southwest, are
sort of pushed all together, soyou don't get the drama.
I'll say one particular viewwas one of the most impressive
things I ever saw, and I'd beencoming to Montana for years.
In the late 70s I traveled upto the northern part of Glacier
(03:24):
Park and then I went acrossgoing to the Sun Road, which is
a gorgeous high road thattraverses the park, but you come
down in the eastern end.
Well, the eastern side ofGlacier Park offers a view of
those mountains that you don'tsee even from the west.
They're rising literally out ofthe flat plains straight up,
(03:46):
hardly any intervening foothillsor badlands or whatever.
The drama of it is unparalleled.
Lea Lane (03:53):
Right.
I know that the Great Plainsarea to the east of Montana is a
very different geographicalterrain.
The contrast is what's special,I think, as you mentioned here,
to see it coming up from thoseplains.
Greg Correll (04:07):
Yes, the plains of Montana are "better plains.
The plains of Nebraska andKansas and parts of Wyoming etc.
are flatlands with only acertain amount of badlands, of
interesting lower elevationterrain.
But Montana there's a few flatareas but there's interesting
(04:28):
terrain everywhere scablands,badlands, small, subtle mountain
ranges, gigantic drama.
They have a thing called theChinese Wall just south of
Glacier Park.
That's astonishing when a largepiece of land angles up and
then erosion will carve littlecanyons into it.
Lea Lane (04:50):
Wow, I remember golden grainfields as well when
driving around the plains area.
Very beautiful colors.
Montana's capital is Helena.
The main street is called LastChance Gulch, which is the
city's original name.
It's a reminder of theprospectors who invaded the
surrounding hills in the 1860sto pan for gold.
Today there's a very livelydowntown with micro breweries
(05:13):
and theater and symphony.
What makes Helena special toyou?
Greg Correll (05:16):
One of the first things you notice about Helena
is that it's a different terrainthan much of the more dramatic
mountains around it.
The word is friendly pinecovered hills, some of them
rounded, all of them set inchaotic, picturesque disorder.
It feels wild but it feelshomey in a way that most of the
(05:38):
other cities around Montanadon't feel.
They're usually set in dramaticflat areas with mountains near
them.
They're not as embedded in themountains as Helena is.
It's got a little bit of thatSan Francisco feel of hills
throughout the town.
Lea Lane (05:54):
Let's talk about a few of the other cities.
You can give us your quick take.
What about Billings in southernMontana, on the Yellowstone
River?
Greg Correll (06:01):
Well, keep it simple.
Billings is a cowboy town, ofcourse, and it's not in the
mountains per se.
There's beautiful badlands nearit.
Billings is a great place to goif you want to see a rodeo.
Lea Lane (06:14):
Tell us about a rodeo in Montana.
Greg Correll (06:16):
Oh man, The good spirit of a rodeo.
everybody's ready to say hello,Everybody's ready to engage
with you.
I never felt isolated or and Iwas obviously a hippy at the
time.
It wasn't obvious to me, Andit's beautiful to see.
I know that.
Lea Lane (06:34):
What are some of the things that you see at a rodeo.
I went to one rodeo in Montana.
I remember the clowns.
They were running around.
They were getting hit in thebackside because they would try
to distract, i guess, some ofthe animals that were acting up
a little.
But that was my memory mostlyis a boisterous clown, cowboy,
bucking horses and so forth.
(06:54):
What else is there to rodeo?
Greg Correll (06:55):
That's energy.
Well, you know, the animalsrule the day.
It's not the humans that rule arodeo, it's the animals.
So you know, you grow toappreciate what someone is able
to do to stay on a beast, butyou're really watching the beast
.
Another thing about rodeos isthey love children.
Every rodeo I've ever been tohad smaller animals, little
events, roping at calves, andit's hilarity at a grand scale
(07:20):
to watch these kids go out thereand try this.
It's safe, it's rugged work butit's safe for these kids.
That's a wonderful feelingabout a rodeo to feel that
you're in an inclusive sort ofthing.
All ages participate, all agesare involved And as far as that
goes, at least in Montana,everyone is there.
It's rather beautiful to be apart of.
Lea Lane (07:40):
Is it all through the year?
Greg Correll (07:42):
There's rodeo season.
Some people say about northernMontana that they have two
seasons, winter and late July,so rodeos year round would be a
problematic thing.
Lea Lane (07:55):
Well, that sounds like fun.
A couple of the other cities Ijust want to mention Missoula,
which is in western Montana,which has a lot of historical
buildings, including 1877 FortMissoula.
It has art museums andbeautiful trails that go through
the mountains near there.
And then Bozeman, which is insouthern Montana.
(08:16):
I spent some time there.
It's in the Rocky Mountains andit has Montana State University
with a wonderful dinosaurmuseum.
I think the kids would lovethat when I was really impressed
with it.
And outside of it is thesmallest park in Montana.
It's a state park.
It has less than an acre ofland.
It's technically called a ghosttown.
It's Elkhorn State Park.
(08:37):
There are two buildings in it,but the rest is considered a
ghost town.
Have you been to a ghost town?
Greg Correll (08:42):
I've been to several ghost towns throughout
the West.
The most memorable ones werenot in Montana, i think partly
because the Southwestern part ofthe United States preserves
ghost towns better than Montanacan.
Lea Lane (08:57):
Well, there are over 60 ghost towns in Montana.
I read that and I was at onein Virginia City, which was
quite a popular one because it'snot far from Yellowstone
National Park, and it wasfascinating.
It's frozen in time, there'slots of stores and stuff.
It's not like there's nothingto do.
There's lots to do, but thefeeling is very much that this
was once a thriving community.
(09:17):
And it's a very special part, ithink, of my visit to that
state.
About the parks (09:22):
a large proportion of Montana's land is
given over to state and nationalparks and monuments and forests
and recreational areas.
You can hike at camp and huntand canoe and, of course, the
best fly fishing in the world.
Greg Correll (09:38):
Glacier National Park holds a special place in my
heart.
I started going there, as Isaid, when I was a teenager and
I realized how unique Glacier is.
The mountains there aredifferent.
They're in a sense more likethe Swiss Alps.
They're giant pyramid shapesthat are pushed together along
the divide.
The divide runs all the wayfrom the south to the north end
(10:02):
of the park.
Waterton Peace Park is actuallya part of this, but it's
located in Canada And it's allone contiguous range of
mountains that are the mostdramatic in Montana.
The glaciers, unfortunately, arestarting to melt and they're
continuing to melt and expect tobe melting for quite some time.
(10:23):
But the park itself isextraordinarily beautiful when
you come in from either the westor the east.
Most come in from west glacier.
You pass Lake McDonald, agigantic lake surrounded by
three sides by enormousmountains, and then you go up
across the spine of thecontinental divide and enormous
(10:46):
switchbacks.
One of the things that surprisesmost visitors is the sheer
number of waterfalls.
Glacier Park and the BobMarshall Wilderness south of it,
the Swan Mountain area, all ofthese mountains are full, full
of waterfalls.
Living here in the east you cantravel to, i can go up the hill
(11:07):
here in New York and see awaterfall, or I can travel north
into Adirondacks and pick acouple of waterfalls to see.
But in glacier there's awaterfall every couple of
hundred feet, and some of themcan be a couple of hundred feet
high.
These very high mountains 10,11,000 feet, and they come right
down to the 6,000, 5,000, 4,000foot level of the road, with
(11:31):
hardly any foothills, and soyou're seeing just cascade after
cascade.
Lea Lane (11:36):
A lot of that, unfortunately, is coming from
melting.
Greg Correll (11:39):
Yes.
Lea Lane (11:40):
It's still beautiful.
Greg Correll (11:41):
Glacier scrapes the moisture out of the air
before it goes further east, sothey get a great deal of snow,
they get a great deal of water.
Lea Lane (11:49):
Tell me about Yellowstone.
I know it's shared with Wyoming.
How does that work?
Greg Correll (11:54):
There's a sliver of the park.
That's in Montana.
Mostly what you've got isentrance from the north and from
the west via Montana, and it'samong the most popular ways to
get there because you can flyinto Bozeman, you can fly into
various Spokane, Washington,just across the border.
(12:14):
People do that and then theydrive down, so most people are
coming from the west there.
Yellowstone is different.
If you're expecting to seedramatic, endless mountain high
mountains, you're going to be alittle disappointed because
Yellowstone exists for itsunique features.
A whole bunch of them the hotpools that you can see, geysers,
(12:36):
the strange sulfurous canyonthat is Yellowstone falls, the
huge numbers of wildlife inYellowstone.
So it's more of a multi-variousexperience.
You're not going to find thesame experience for hiking
trails, for instance.
In Yellowstone.
There are some traditional goup to a mountain and come back
(12:59):
down again, but for the mostpart these trails go in and out
the more interesting lower level, lower elevation features of
the park.
Lea Lane (13:07):
Yeah, it's very stunning.
Wyoming would take credit formost of it, as you said, but
Montana is an entrance to it andworth seeking out.
if you have not been, it iscrowded during tourist season, i
would say.
if you can possibly go outsideof that, that would be a very
big tip Now.
at the time of Europeansettlement of the region,
(13:27):
Montana was inhabited by variousNative American peoples,
including the Cheyenne,Blackfoot, Katanik and Crow.
Montana has seven Indianreservations and Native
Americans constitute more thanone-tenth of the state's total
population.
Nearly two-thirds of them liveon the reservations and most of
the rest in the cities near them, notably Missoula, Great Falls
(13:49):
and Billings.
Have you been to a NativeAmerican gathering?
Greg Correll (13:53):
Oh many.
First thing you got to knowabout it is that if you are a
respectful and calm human beingyou are welcome on these
reservations, flat out.
I've been to reservations inthe Southwest and it's different
.
I didn't feel as welcomed.
The Indian reservations inMontana are, if not unique,
close to it because they arestill living on their ancestral
(14:16):
lands as opposed to having beenmoved to a poorer corner of
their lands or even off theirtraditional lands altogether.
The most fun of the reservationsto me is the Kutane Salish, who
are known as flathead Indians.
They used to press them withboards to flatten aesthetically
(14:36):
their heads.
The Kutane Salish tribe is avery friendly and welcoming
tribe and they're located justnorth of Missoula, going all the
way up to Glacier.
So you sort of have toencounter the Kutane Salish
Indians if you're going north togo to Glacier when you're
driving through.
I remember the first time Iwent on their reservation to go
(14:57):
fishing up in the MissionMountains there the pickup
truck that I was in was on thislonely little road heading
toward the missions and anotherpickup truck started coming
toward me and it was full ofIndians, full of residents, and
they slowed way down and so Iassumed they wanted me to slow
down.
So we slowed way down and theysaid hello.
They waved and they gave mesmiles and there was (a kind of
(15:19):
I like the old movies wherethey'd be cutting tomahawk right
You go right to it other thanto say you're on our reservation
, perhaps, and we need to get agood look at you and you look
like a good guy, so have a niceday.
Lea Lane (15:32):
It was pretty wonderful.
Greg Correll (15:33):
Now.
I've also been to roundups andto powwows and they are
wonderful.
Lea Lane (15:40):
What is a powwow specifically?
Greg Correll (15:42):
It's a drumming and it's a circular dance and
it's done for different purposesand reasons and I think it's
probably different between eachtribe.
But it is a time of costume,song and dance and lots of
energy, lots of food, lots oftalking and laughing and
(16:04):
beautiful native headdress andthe women members of the tribe
wear elegant, beautiful outfits.
Lea Lane (16:11):
Well sounds terrific and something not to miss when
you go to Montana.
There are lots of festivals.
Square dance is popular,fiddling is popular.
I remember I was panning forsapphires, because it's called
the Treasure state.
They weren't looking like thetwinkly ones you put on your
hand, they were like rocks.
I don't think they were worthvery much, but it was lots of
(16:32):
fun to do that.
That was something I stillremember.
I had about six of them.
I probably have them somewhere.
They're like little blue stonesbut they're not what you think
of.
But there's so much fun.
There's lots of minerals thereand lots of things of that sort
to do too.
How about dude ranches?
I went to a dude ranchwonderful places for families
especially, of course.
You go horseback riding and youcan go on cattle drives.
(16:53):
Have you been to one of those?
Greg Correll (16:55):
I've never been.
I knew people who worked atdude ranches in a couple of
places in Montana When I washippie and making my way up
there, dude ranches were sort ofanathema to me.
That was what the safe peopledid As I become an older safe
person.
Lea Lane (17:14):
You joined us in the dude ranch.
Greg Correll (17:17):
I might join you at the dude ranch.
It would be a lot of fun.
Lea Lane (17:19):
You can go from simple to luxury.
That's a nice thing aboutMontana.
Every kind of accommodation,from camping up to the top, top
luxury, five star, seven starresorts because it is so
beautiful, you get everybody whowants to enjoy it.
The cattle ranch is anotherplace you can stay.
That's even more authentic.
You can go on trail rides andyou can help calve and lamb in
(17:41):
the spring.
You can ride herd in the summer.
You're a part of the team there.
That's something that you mightwant to look into.
It's a real working ranch.
A lot of them are now open totourists.
I would check that out.
What do you say is unique aboutMontana?
All the places you've been inthe states?
Greg Correll (17:59):
I've alluded to the differences in the mountains
.
I want to make another set ofpoints about it.
What most folks don't realizeis that there's a great deal
more mountain and state park andeven national park than just
Glacier and the little bit ofYellowstone.
Down there.
There's the Bob Marshallwilderness area, there are the
(18:19):
Cabinet mountains, the Sapphiremountains, the Garnet range, the
Purcell mountains.
All of these mountain areashave very few people living in
them.
There's a quality to Montanathat I've not found anywhere
else, except in certain placesin Nevada, which doesn't really
count because Nevada is just,for the most part, empty.
It's high desert and empty.
(18:40):
What you find in Montana isthat you can go for 30 or 40
miles on many of the mountainroads and never see another road
, never see a turnoff for adriveway.
This is like Alaska.
This is an empty state full ofbeauty.
Lea Lane (19:00):
Big Sky Country.
Big Sky Country.
Greg Correll (19:03):
There's another thing too I wanted to say, which
is south of Glacier.
there are unusual mountainformations all the way down to
the southern end of the state.
The Swan Valley, between themissions and the Swan range, is
one of the real secret beautiesof Montana.
It has almost nothing in it,there are very few developments,
(19:23):
and it has high mountains, themission mountains, the holy
center of the world for theKutany salish D and the Swan
mountains, which are a gentlerand very beautiful range of
mountains.
Then this lovely valley thatgoes right up to the north,
right up to Columbia Falls andWest Glacier.
Then you cross the Swanmountains and you've got a very
(19:43):
similar thing.
You've got a Chinese wall thatgoes from north to south and the
Flathead range that merges withit to the north, these mountain
ranges.
as you drive along them, it islike a world created just for
you that day.
The only areas in Montana thathave any kind of traffic are up
around Glacier a little bit anda whole lot down at Yellowstone.
You're not going to see a lotof people on the road in Montana
(20:07):
.
Lea Lane (20:07):
You'll see a lot of animals.
You see lots of wildlife That'ssomething I want to mention too
.
Tremendous amounts of animals,of course, bison in certain
areas, but just all kinds ofanimals all along, because it's
a haven, it's a beautiful placefor all.
Well, the name of the podcastis Places I Remember.
Greg, can you please share onemore special memory of Montana?
Greg Correll (20:29):
There's a place called Lolo Pass southwest of
Missoula.
This is a secret about Montana.
If you cross Lolo Pass you willfind a whole area o along the
Bitterroot Mountains there inthe southwest, a whole area full
of wild natural hot springsthat you can sit in like a hot
(20:50):
tub.
That's worth mentioning.
I had to get that in there.
Now I'm going to tell you myspecial memory.
I took my daughter, who was four, my first born daughter up to
the reservation for a powwow onher birthday, the 4th of July,
the last year I lived in Montanabefore I came east.
It was a beautiful day.
I was up there with a friendand her daughter.
(21:11):
Our kids at one point wereinvited out to march.
Someone said you kids want tocome.
They went out into the largecircle and just circled it and
circled it and circled it,stamping their feet, just as it
came to a conclusion and thepeople in the stands were
walking down and joining withthe people who had been marching
(21:33):
.
It began to snow.
It was the 4th of July and itwas warm, but coming off the
missions, coming out of the east, a set of clouds came over and
it just began dropping sparklinglittle snowflakes on us in the
middle of the 4th of July heat,it was beautiful.
Lea Lane (21:51):
A rain dance, but a snow dance.
Greg Correll (21:54):
You suddenly felt like you were in some way
physically connected to the topsof those peaks.
Just to the east.
There was this sense of thatIndian idea of being connected
to the world and itscapabilities and its processes.
Lea Lane (22:09):
Beautiful, beautiful memory.
Well, thank you, Greg Corrrell.
Your memories and yourdescriptions of Montana show
that you are indeed an artistand a writer.
I'm so fortunate as well thatyou are producer of this show
and I get to work with you andshare memories all the time, So
a big thank you for that as well.
See you soon, (Okay thanks, Lea, bye-bye.
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