February 4, 2025 • 25 mins
Dr. Laurie Marker, the founder of the Cheetah Conservation Fund, shares her mission to save one of the world's most endangered big cats. Dr. Marker offers insights into the delicate balance of arid grassland ecosystems and the critical role these majestic creatures play. In a world where cheetah populations are declining, learn how innovative models in Namibia are empowering communities to live in harmony with their natural surroundings and actively participate in conservation efforts.
We also embark on a sensory journey through Namibia's unique culinary scene and awe-inspiring landscapes, indulging in the country's fresh seafood, including famous oysters, or experiencing the traditional Mahongo soup. We feel the rugged beauty of the Skeleton Coast where towering dunes meet the ocean, and the vibrant wildlife in Swakopmund and Etosha National Park.
Immerse yourself in the haunting beauty of Kolmanskop’s ghost town and the grandeur of Fish River Canyon, the continent's largest. Throughout, Dr. Marker calls for global action, urging us all to play a role in preserving these irreplaceable natural wonders.
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Dr. Laurie Marker is the founder of the Cheetah Conservation Fund. Go to cheetah.org.
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Podcast host Lea Lane has traveled to over 100 countries, and has written nine books, including the award-winning Places I Remember (Kirkus Reviews star rating, and 'one of the top 100 Indie books of the year'). She has contributed to many guidebooks and has written thousands of travel articles.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lea Lane (00:01):
If you're a regular listener of Places I Remember,
you'll know that we have over100 episodes.
New ones drop the first Tuesdayof every month.
You'll also know that, as alongtime travel writer, I've
been lucky enough to visit allcontinents and over 100
countries, and in doing so I'vegrown more and more concerned
about caring for our planet andthe creatures that inhabit it.
(00:23):
So today we'll be talking firstabout saving one of the most
beautiful animals in the world,and then we'll talk about the
country that has the largestpopulation of that animal
Namibia.
Overall, the InternationalUnion for Conservation of Nature
estimates that half the globe'sover 5,000 known mammals are
declining in population and afifth are clearly at risk of
(00:45):
disappearing forever, with over1,000 mammals across the globe
classified as endangered,threatened or vulnerable, And
specifically in the last 100years, we've lost 90% of the
world's fastest land animal, thespotted, agile, elegant big cat
called the cheetah.
Our guest on this episode isdoing more than just about
(01:06):
anyone to stop this loss.
After establishing NorthAmerica's most successful
captive cheetah breeding programat Oregon's Wildlife Safari in
1990, Dr Lori Marker founded theCheetah Conservation Fund and
moved to the African country ofNamibia to develop a permanent
international research andeducation center on a
156,000-acre private wildlifereserve.
(01:30):
Welcome, Lori, to Places IRemember.
[Thank you Lovely to be withyou.
Well, it's a pleasure to haveyou join us.
We'll first discuss your workin saving these beautiful
threatened big cats and thenwe'll talk about the country
where you now live, Namibia.
I've been there once, and nextmonth I'll be traveling there
again.
We'll cover some of what youthink makes Namibia a special
(01:51):
travel destination, but tell usfirst how you got interested in
working with cheetahs.
Dr. Laurie Marker (01:56):
Well, I didn't know I was going to be
working with cheetahs, butthat's where my life led me and
I started working with cheetahsback in the early 1970s and that
was in Oregon, where Ideveloped a wildlife park and we
were one of the few places inthe world that had cheetahs.
So we started breeding them andthat became my passion to learn
more about cheetahs, becausethere were very few of them in
(02:19):
the world in captivity.
They didn't breed well and weknew that there were not that
many out in the wild anymore,but nobody knew that much.
So by the middle of 1970s Iended up in Namibia Africa
--then it was called SouthwestAfrica, it hadn't gotten its
independence yet from SouthAfrica nd in Namibia I actually
(02:40):
took a cheetah that I raisedand taught her how to hunt.
And that's really how I gotinvolved in cheetahs and Namibia
and why I live in Namibia today.
Lea Lane (02:51):
That's wonderful.
I'm a cat lady.
I guess you say when you taughther to hunt, I've taught my cat
to do things too.
I guess they're all the same insome ways right.
We can identify.
Very very similar.
Dr. Laurie Marker (03:03):
Across the board, there's about 42 species
of cats.
The cheetah is the most uniqueof all the cats.
They are the fastest landanimal and can go up to 70 miles
an hour, but they're alsotrying to outrun extinction.
There's only about 7,500cheetahs left in the world today
, and Namibia is the cheetahcapital of the world, and I have
(03:25):
helped make it that way.
We have about a thousandcheetahs and I've been working
there since I moved there in1990, where I set up the
foundation to help save the wildcheetahs.
Lea Lane (03:37):
What would happen to the entire ecosystem of our
world if the cheetahs becameextinct?
Dr. Laurie Marker (03:42):
Well, that's always a hard thing.
On a global scale, I mean,every species plays a key role.
The cheetah in the systemsactually helps manage, control
the grassland ecosystems, and sowhat they do is they help with
the overgrazing of the land.
They actually feed all theother wildlife species because a
(04:04):
cheetah, when it makes a kill,it eats rapidly and then leaves
food for the rest of the othersmall mammals insects, birds,
and so they actually help creategreater biodiversity.
So when you lose a top predatorlike the cheetah, it actually
reduces the biodiversity withinan ecosystem.
So cheetahs play a reallyimportant role, especially in an
(04:25):
arid land grassland system.
So the cheetah is actually avery important part of keeping
the systems healthy.
Lea Lane (04:32):
Well, you work in conjunction with the people on
whose land the cheetah lives.
How do you involve the localNamibians?
Uplift the people who livealongside these animals?
Dr. Laurie Marker (04:41):
Well, it's interesting because cheetahs are
one species that is actuallynot known to live in protected
areas.
95% of all of our cheetahs inNamibia are found outside of
protected areas.
The remaining small areas wherecheetahs are found throughout
their ranges, 80% of them arefound outside of protected areas
(05:02):
.
So in Namibia, working withcommunities is very critical.
Namibia is famous for what arecalled conservancies Actually,
we work very closely withconservancies, with the Ministry
of Environment, to actuallyempower them so that they manage
(05:23):
their natural resources.
And so, with 90% of all thecheetahs and 80% of our wildlife
living outside of protectedareas, the communities play a
key role in making sure thatthere's enough grasslands.
The wildlife numbers are highenough that an animal like the
predators, like cheetahs, arenot causing problems for their
livestock.
(05:43):
And then we work withcommunities to help understand
how to manage their livestockbetter.
We do a program called FutureFarmers of Africa, which is
actually an integration of ifyou have good grazing land and
good wildlife and good livestockmanagement, then predators and
all the other wildlife speciescan live within this whole
system.
And that's what conservanciesare an integrated system that
(06:07):
allows the communities toactually have better livelihoods
.
Lea Lane (06:11):
Well, I've learned that Namibia is one of the most
aware countries in the worldabout ecology.
It's one of the things I likebest.
Dr. Laurie Marker (06:17):
We're leading the way in, I think, Africa
conservation.
Being an American, I also seethat we're helping and can share
things back here in Americawith the systems that we've
helped put in place.
But within our communities,conservancies play a very key
role.
But that leads into that ofecotourism, where the
communities actually benefitfrom having tourists come into
(06:40):
their area and that benefitsthem by being tour guides, by
actually we've got livelihoodaspects, the Cheetah
Conservation Fund.
We do a huge amount ofintegration like using our
livestock which we have.
We're a model farm and we teachcommunities how to farm in
harmony with nature.
(07:01):
We have a goat dairy and we noware teaching communities that
you can milk your goats and makecheeses and maybe soap and
those are also alternativelivelihoods, but also for your
family.
You can make cheeses forprotein and not just have to
carry your livestock numbers, alarge number of them, and have
them only for your food.
(07:22):
You can actually utilizeanimals differently as well.
Lea Lane (07:26):
Can a person visit your cheetah research center as
a tourist?
Dr. Laurie Marker (07:29):
Yeah, the Cheetah Conservation Fund in
Namibia.
We're outside of the towncalled Ochivarango, if that
means a beautiful place, and inOchivarango we're about 45
minutes out of town.
We have an open to the publicresearch and education facility.
So we are open every day of theyear except Christmas.
(07:49):
Visitors can come in and learnall about the cheetah.
We do have orphan cheetahsthere that we care for and the
public loves to see them andlearn more about why they're
there.
But we have a big museum withour model farm, have livestock
guarding dogs, which are a largebreed of dog to protect
livestock.
Our livestock guarding dogprogram is very integrated into
(08:13):
communities and public visitorscoming and learning more about
the things it takes to work andsave Africa's wildlife.
How does conservation reallywork?
We have a genetics lab.
We've got a veterinary clinic.
Visitors are quite engaged whenthey come and learn.
We also have an overnight areawhere people can stay.
We've got a veterinary clinic.
Visitors are quite engaged whenthey come and learn.
We also have an overnight areawhere people can stay.
We've got the Babson House,which is an exclusive guest
(08:35):
house, and then we have ourSheet of View Lodge, which is
lovely.
Sounds like a wonderfuladdition to the other beautiful
things about Namibia.
Namibia is on the northwestborder, north of South Africa.
The landscape includes lots ofopen spaces with thorn bushes,
scattered farms and towns.
(08:56):
It's one of the least occupiedcountries in the world, I read,
but it also has astoundingbeauty.
It's known mostly for the NabiDesert coming down to the
Atlantic Ocean coast, but italso has mountains and canyons
and savannas.
Stunning.
It was colonized as GermanSouthwest Africa, as you know,
from 1884 until 1915.
(09:17):
And since gaining independencefrom South Africa in 1990, it's
enjoyed decades of politicalstability.
How would you describe yourcountry in general, Laurie?
Oh, open landscapes, breathtaking views,
amazing people and cultures.
Lea Lane (09:34):
Tell us about some of the ethnic groups.
I know there's a wonderfultribe in the north called the
Himba that many people miss.
They're beautiful people.
Dr. Laurie Marker (09:42):
Well, we have about 13 different cultures,
all mixed together and living inharmony.
Namibia is also one of thesafest places and most peaceful
places on earth, which I'm very,very proud of.
The ethnic groups that peoplewill see in many places would be
maybe the Damra speaking people, and Damra are well known
because they have a click Aroob.
(10:03):
That means cheetah.
Are you clicking right?
Lea Lane (10:06):
Now clicking.
Yes, I didn't hear it.
Can you click again?
Dr. Laurie Marker (10:09):
A rube.
It's a very low.
I mean, you know I'm not a goodclicker, but there are the
Herrero speaking people, and theHerrero are characterized, I
think, by the women wearingthese very big, long dresses,
these colonial dresses.
They're beautiful in thesedresses and they're in the
eastern part of the areas andthen their relatives are very,
(10:30):
very far up north, which are theHimba speaking, the Himba being
the most rural of thecommunities.
Namibia is hot, so I'll also saythat we're hot, arid, dry.
We would love rain but we don'tget very much of it.
Where the Himba are, they livein fomas, where their cattle are
with them.
They move where there might besome grasses, but they are a
(10:52):
beautiful culture of people.
The other culture that we havein Namibia that's also very
rural would be the Sand Bushmen,and they are over in the east
as well and they're amazing.
You can go tracking with themand telling stories about the
wildlife and the wildlife theysee and where the wildlife's
gone and why it's gone there.
You can travel into all theseareas when you come to Namibia.
(11:15):
Another very special group arethe Avambu, and that is the main
tribe.
At Independence, Namibia justtook the role of saying you know
, we're not tribal, we are allNamibian.
So we're Namibian first andthen, with that, we do have the
white tribes.
So there's German, there'sAfrikaans, there's English, and
that is very interesting, thateverybody blends together, and I
(11:36):
love the blending of everybody.
English is the spoken languagebecause there are so many
different languages.
At independence, Namibia saidwe're going to speak English,
which?
When I got there, everybody wanted to learn
English from me, and so Ialways say well, they now have
California slang English thatthey speak.
Lea Lane (11:56):
You're changing the world one word at a time, right?
Well, it's a gorgeous countryas well, and I'll just start off
with the part that I think isthe most beautiful.
It's the highest sand dunes inthe world, located in and around
Sousa lay, the southern part ofthe Namib Desert.
It's the oldest desert on earth.
It also may be the mostbeautiful.
(12:16):
For centuries, the wind hassculpted sharp ridges of sand
into arcs that rise from valleyfloors maybe a thousand feet.
Each dune is different and it'sconstantly reshaped by the wind
.
It shifts color throughout theday.
I remember having to get upearly in the morning and it
wasn't easy because I was tired,but we went to see the shadows
(12:39):
on the dunes.
So sometimes you can see halfthe dune in dark shadow and half
in rust red.
Photographer's delight.
You've got the pans of sand andsalt.
It's white against the red.
It's just gorgeous.
The Dune 7 is the highest dunein Namibia.
I believe it's over 1,000 feet.
Call Dune 7 because it's theseventh one you come across when
(13:00):
you cross the river.
Other famous dunes are Dune 45and two that I love.
Big Daddy and Big Mama, haveyou climbed any of these?
Dr. Laurie Marker (13:09):
I have many times yeah, [what's it like?
] It's Climbing sand up, up, up.
Lea Lane (13:15):
I got a little way up.
It's not so easy.
I got partway up, but it's very, very difficult after a while.
Dr. Laurie Marker (13:21):
That's why you get there so early in the
morning, Right, Because it ishot.
But we are also a high desertand so we can be in the summer.
American summers we can bequite cold and so that is also
something to be aware of.
Lea Lane (13:37):
Right, it's a challenge.
I don't know if there's anyplace in the world quite like it
[There isn't.
Dr. Laurie Marker (13:41):
If you go on more to the coast, you end up
seeing the dunes right on thewater as well, which is just
amazing.
Lea Lane (13:48):
Amazing, remembering my trip.
We took a five-hour drive fromSousa Flay to the capital city
of Windhoek in Namibia's centralhighlands, and I remember a
troop of baboons sitting in theroad maybe 75 of them, and herds
of oryx on the side.
These are large pale antelopewith dark markings and straight
(14:09):
horns.
Just the trip itself wassomething because it was on very
empty roads.
There was almost no one, verybasic roads.
What do you recommend seeingand doing in Windhoek?
Dr. Laurie Marker (14:21):
Well, Windhoek's our capital.
This is a joke.
Is that when you get off of thesand dunes and into the city,
of course you're going to go toone of the nice hotels and take
a shower, but that sounds like agood idea, because we do have a
lot of dust and dirt, butbeyond that, lovely shops with
local community craft objects.
We have great restaurants.
(14:42):
The seafood comes from theocean fresh daily.
We have the best oysters, Ithink, in the world.
I'm very partial to our oysters.
Yes, Of course we are ameat-eating country as well.
Our beef is incredible andactually our beef comes to
America.
We're the only country in allof Africa that actually sends
our beef here.
Namibia is a very high standardcountry.
(15:04):
I think we need to also pointout absolutely.
Now.
Lea Lane (15:07):
I had Mahongo soup.
Can you explain what's in that?
Dr. Laurie Marker (15:10):
A soup made out of Mahongo.
It's a millet.
How was it?
Lea Lane (15:15):
It was good.
It was made with fish and, Ithink, goat meat, but I think
you can have it with lamb.
I like to eat something typical, not just beautiful oysters,
which I also like to eat, and Ihad very good green asparagus.
I remember that.
Dr. Laurie Marker (15:27):
The asparagus comes from the coast.
Remember we have a very longcoast.
It has to be about 1,500 miles.
Lea Lane (15:35):
You can drive along and see nobody for hours and
hours.
And the sand, the packed sandroad, is the same color sort of
in an overcast day as the ocean,and they call it the end of the
earth because it feels likethat.
It's a good feeling if you'vegot lots of gas in your tank and
let's go onto the skeletoncoast if you've got lots of gas
in your tank.
Yes, let's go onto the SkeletonCoast.
Dr. Laurie Marker (15:53):
It's called the Skeleton Coast primarily
because boats used to run intoit.
It's a rocky coast, it's not agentle, soft coast.
Apparently there had been anumber of boats that had gone
askew.
Yeah, there's some.
Did you see them ever?
There's a couple along the roadthat you stop in and take
pictures of and abandon for along time.
But the stories go way backwhen harsh harsh lands.
Lea Lane (16:17):
Harsh, harsh land, and if you're with someone or with
a group, I think you wouldn'twant to do this one solo.
I'm a solo traveler, but thisone's pushing it.
Dr. Laurie Marker (16:25):
You can go into Namibia, get a car and
drive anywhere and you'reperfectly safe, and there's not
very many places in the worldyou can say that you're safe for
sure.
Lea Lane (16:33):
Just get that gas tank full.
That would be my one thing.
What about the coastal city ofSwakopmund?
It has sandy beaches, it facesthe Atlantic, it was established
by German colonists in 1892 andhas a lot of colonial landmarks
.
What are a few of them that youwould recommend?
Dr. Laurie Marker (16:49):
Those also are wildlife areas.
We've got Walvis Bay, which issouth a little bit.
It is where we now have BigWharf and if you move north you
can go up and see the sea lions,which are very famous.
These are some of the firstplaces the explorers landed.
Huge, lovely lighthouse there,Pelican Point.
Lea Lane (17:08):
Lighthouse Right and loads and loads of fur seals, I
remember you know the smell ofthem and the sound of them.
You have to get used to it.
But there are over 100,000birds counted in the lagoon.
They're mostly flamingos andpelicans, so it's a beautiful
sight to see that pink againstthe gray coast.
It's very delicate coloring.
Lots of lots of marine life,very wonderful contrast to the
(17:33):
desert.
Dr. Laurie Marker (17:33):
Yeah, Isn't it?
Lea Lane (17:34):
Amazing and they're so close to each other.
I took a plane from Walvis BayArea to dunes.
A lot of people do it that way,With time as a problem.
It's a long way to drive, soyou fly in these tiny planes and
you get to see below you thesered red dunes.
You see how red they are.
Besides a significant cheetahpopulation, Namibia is home to
(17:56):
diverse wildlife.
The most famous national park,Atosha, is in northwestern
Namibia, one of the largestnational parks in Africa, and it
was proclaimed a game reservein 1907.
What animals will you find atAtosha?
Dr. Laurie Marker (18:06):
Oh, Atosha is just so beautiful.
Again, it's a very aridlandscape and so the animals are
covering very vast areas, butwe have huge herds of elephants.
Our elephants also go intoareas near the coast, which are
called desert elephants, soagain we've got some very
specialized species.
Within the park you can seerhinos and giraffe, all the
(18:27):
wildlife species from oryx andhardy, bees, springbok,
everywhere that are bouncingeverywhere, Lions, of course,
hyena, very few cheetahs, [Twokinds of zebra I read ] Mountain
zebra and their plain zebras.
Most people see the plain zebra.
The mountain zebra are muchmore rare and they're also very
shy in many areas that are notnecessarily open to the public,
(18:50):
and but they're mountainous.
Atosha is just incredible forthe amount of wildlife.
You go to these water points.
It's a very arid land and sothe water points the wildlife
congregates in.
It's amazing the kinds ofspecies, the numbers of species
all living there together, andthen the predators, and of
course everybody likes those aswell.
Lea Lane (19:12):
Right.
There are many otherattractions to visit.
I would just include two that Ithink are special.
Fish River Canyon it's thelargest canyon in Africa and the
world's second largest canyon.
It's about 60 million years old.
It was formed when SouthAmerica and Africa separated.
It's 100 miles long.
A challenging hike, have youdone it.
Dr. Laurie Marker (19:33):
I have not done it.
I've been to the rim and I'velooked over.
Lea Lane (19:38):
It's a very challenging hike.
Actually, it is verychallenging.
Dr. Laurie Marker (19:42):
People who have that kind of adventure
definitely.
Lea Lane (19:45):
Good for them.
Then there's Colmanscope GhostTown, and this ghost town is
different from what you usuallythink of because it's filled
with sand.
The desert has taken it oversince about 1956, when it was
abandoned as a former diamondmining town.
Have you been there?
I've been there.
Dr. Laurie Marker (20:03):
And you know what?
There's a lot of hyenas thatlike to live in and out of there
too, and jackals.
They're more nocturnal, but itis.
It's just an amazing place totake pictures.
Of course, when you come toNamibia, bring your camera, but
Namibia is a huge country.
An area that you've missed andI'm not sure if you've been
there has been Damreland yeahwhere the rock etchings are
(20:27):
Trifolfonte, one of my favoriteplaces in the entire world.
It's a World Heritage Site, soit's been developed with
walkways, fortunately, toprotect these amazing rock
etchings that are at least 5,000years old.
But they're etched in andwithin there.
There's also areas where thereare rock paintings, but this
(20:49):
area is etched and they are justincredible, from ostriches and
elephants and rhinos and giraffe, cheetah, kudu, antelope.
They're all on these rocks thatare amazing.
It's like going to a wildlifechurch.
I'm going to say outdoor,incredible art that's there.
Lea Lane (21:09):
What a magnificent picture you're painting.
There are so many things to goand view and visit.
I suggest reading up some moreand maybe adding Namibia, if
you're already flying to SouthAfrica.
I think a lot of people don'tthink of it as being so close to
South Africa.
I know many listeners travel toBotswana and so forth.
It's so close.
Please, if it isn't number one,at least add in a week, if you
(21:34):
can, and be prepared for one ofthe most exhilarating trips of
your life.
Well, the name of the podcastis Places I Remember.
So, Dr.
Laurie Marker, would you pleaseshare a special memory either
of your work with the Cheetahsor of your travels in Namibia,
or both.
Dr. Laurie Marker (21:50):
I love Namibia.
It's my favorite place in theworld and people ask me when I
travel all the time.
I like where I live, which isthe Cheetah Conservation Fund's
land at the base of theWaterberg, which is a national
park, but we've got the mostbeautiful spectacular view of
the Waterberg and this area.
We've got an area that we callthe little Serengeti on our land
(22:14):
and we obviously take people ongame drives and you can see all
kinds of wildlife but with thisspectacular water bird plateau
as our background is justbreathtaking and this is where
we do all of our cheetah workand it's just amazing to see the
cheetahs out in this landscapeas well.
(22:35):
We also see leopards quiteoften, the giraffe and the
rhinos.
I mean, they're just it'sincredible.
So I think that's maybe myvision.
I travel all the time and I'msharing with people the stories
about how to go about savingcheetahs and with that I always
have this vision of theWaterberg in the back of my mind
(22:56):
and all the thoughts that Ihave.
So it's been a lovely countrythat I welcome people to come to
, and working with cheetahs andtrying to save them has been an
amazing voyage and journey thatI've been on for so many years
35 years based in Namibia andwith that, being able to see the
(23:16):
cheetah survive for the futureas one of the world's most
endangered big cats is a job notonly for myself but for
everybody who I think meets acheetah and sees the work that
needs to be done to try to getinvolved in it.
So I welcome people to comevisit also to learn more about
what we do on our website, whichis cheetah.
(23:37):
org, to learn all the differentaspects of community work,
education work, the beauty ofthe biology and the ecology of
the cheetah, and understandingmore about how we can live in
harmony together, if we just try.
Lea Lane (23:53):
Well, beautiful thoughts.
Thank you so much, Dr.
Laurie Marker, for sharing yourinsights about Namibia and for
the outstanding work you dothere for cheetahs.
You are changing the world.
Our planet now faces a globalextinction crisis never
witnessed by humankind.
Scientists predict that morethan a million species are on
(24:13):
track for extinction in thecoming decades.
If you want to help, we'll havemore info in the episode show
notes.
Thanks again, it was a pleasure.
[Thank you, that was very nice,thank you.
If you're a regular listener of Places I Remember,
you'll know that we have over100 episodes.
New ones drop the first Tuesdayof every month.
You'll also know that, as alongtime travel writer, I've
been lucky enough to visit allcontinents and over 100
countries, and in doing so I'vegrown more and more concerned
about caring for our planet andthe creatures that inhabit it.
(00:23):
So today we'll be talking firstabout saving one of the most
beautiful animals in the world,and then we'll talk about the
country that has the largestpopulation of that animal
Namibia.
Overall, the InternationalUnion for Conservation of Nature
estimates that half the globe'sover 5,000 known mammals are
declining in population and afifth are clearly at risk of
(00:45):
disappearing forever, with over1,000 mammals across the globe
classified as endangered,threatened or vulnerable, And
specifically in the last 100years, we've lost 90% of the
world's fastest land animal, thespotted, agile, elegant big cat
called the cheetah.
Our guest on this episode isdoing more than just about
(01:06):
anyone to stop this loss.
After establishing NorthAmerica's most successful
captive cheetah breeding programat Oregon's Wildlife Safari in
1990, Dr Lori Marker founded theCheetah Conservation Fund and
moved to the African country ofNamibia to develop a permanent
international research andeducation center on a
156,000-acre private wildlifereserve.
(01:30):
Welcome, Lori, to Places IRemember.
[Thank you Lovely to be withyou.
Well, it's a pleasure to haveyou join us.
We'll first discuss your workin saving these beautiful
threatened big cats and thenwe'll talk about the country
where you now live, Namibia.
I've been there once, and nextmonth I'll be traveling there
again.
We'll cover some of what youthink makes Namibia a special
(01:51):
travel destination, but tell usfirst how you got interested in
working with cheetahs.
Dr. Laurie Marker (01:56):
Well, I didn't know I was going to be
working with cheetahs, butthat's where my life led me and
I started working with cheetahsback in the early 1970s and that
was in Oregon, where Ideveloped a wildlife park and we
were one of the few places inthe world that had cheetahs.
So we started breeding them andthat became my passion to learn
more about cheetahs, becausethere were very few of them in
(02:19):
the world in captivity.
They didn't breed well and weknew that there were not that
many out in the wild anymore,but nobody knew that much.
So by the middle of 1970s Iended up in Namibia Africa
--then it was called SouthwestAfrica, it hadn't gotten its
independence yet from SouthAfrica nd in Namibia I actually
(02:40):
took a cheetah that I raisedand taught her how to hunt.
And that's really how I gotinvolved in cheetahs and Namibia
and why I live in Namibia today.
Lea Lane (02:51):
That's wonderful.
I'm a cat lady.
I guess you say when you taughther to hunt, I've taught my cat
to do things too.
I guess they're all the same insome ways right.
We can identify.
Very very similar.
Dr. Laurie Marker (03:03):
Across the board, there's about 42 species
of cats.
The cheetah is the most uniqueof all the cats.
They are the fastest landanimal and can go up to 70 miles
an hour, but they're alsotrying to outrun extinction.
There's only about 7,500cheetahs left in the world today
, and Namibia is the cheetahcapital of the world, and I have
(03:25):
helped make it that way.
We have about a thousandcheetahs and I've been working
there since I moved there in1990, where I set up the
foundation to help save the wildcheetahs.
Lea Lane (03:37):
What would happen to the entire ecosystem of our
world if the cheetahs becameextinct?
Dr. Laurie Marker (03:42):
Well, that's always a hard thing.
On a global scale, I mean,every species plays a key role.
The cheetah in the systemsactually helps manage, control
the grassland ecosystems, and sowhat they do is they help with
the overgrazing of the land.
They actually feed all theother wildlife species because a
(04:04):
cheetah, when it makes a kill,it eats rapidly and then leaves
food for the rest of the othersmall mammals insects, birds,
and so they actually help creategreater biodiversity.
So when you lose a top predatorlike the cheetah, it actually
reduces the biodiversity withinan ecosystem.
So cheetahs play a reallyimportant role, especially in an
(04:25):
arid land grassland system.
So the cheetah is actually avery important part of keeping
the systems healthy.
Lea Lane (04:32):
Well, you work in conjunction with the people on
whose land the cheetah lives.
How do you involve the localNamibians?
Uplift the people who livealongside these animals?
Dr. Laurie Marker (04:41):
Well, it's interesting because cheetahs are
one species that is actuallynot known to live in protected
areas.
95% of all of our cheetahs inNamibia are found outside of
protected areas.
The remaining small areas wherecheetahs are found throughout
their ranges, 80% of them arefound outside of protected areas
(05:02):
.
So in Namibia, working withcommunities is very critical.
Namibia is famous for what arecalled conservancies Actually,
we work very closely withconservancies, with the Ministry
of Environment, to actuallyempower them so that they manage
(05:23):
their natural resources.
And so, with 90% of all thecheetahs and 80% of our wildlife
living outside of protectedareas, the communities play a
key role in making sure thatthere's enough grasslands.
The wildlife numbers are highenough that an animal like the
predators, like cheetahs, arenot causing problems for their
livestock.
(05:43):
And then we work withcommunities to help understand
how to manage their livestockbetter.
We do a program called FutureFarmers of Africa, which is
actually an integration of ifyou have good grazing land and
good wildlife and good livestockmanagement, then predators and
all the other wildlife speciescan live within this whole
system.
And that's what conservanciesare an integrated system that
(06:07):
allows the communities toactually have better livelihoods
.
Lea Lane (06:11):
Well, I've learned that Namibia is one of the most
aware countries in the worldabout ecology.
It's one of the things I likebest.
Dr. Laurie Marker (06:17):
We're leading the way in, I think, Africa
conservation.
Being an American, I also seethat we're helping and can share
things back here in Americawith the systems that we've
helped put in place.
But within our communities,conservancies play a very key
role.
But that leads into that ofecotourism, where the
communities actually benefitfrom having tourists come into
(06:40):
their area and that benefitsthem by being tour guides, by
actually we've got livelihoodaspects, the Cheetah
Conservation Fund.
We do a huge amount ofintegration like using our
livestock which we have.
We're a model farm and we teachcommunities how to farm in
harmony with nature.
(07:01):
We have a goat dairy and we noware teaching communities that
you can milk your goats and makecheeses and maybe soap and
those are also alternativelivelihoods, but also for your
family.
You can make cheeses forprotein and not just have to
carry your livestock numbers, alarge number of them, and have
them only for your food.
(07:22):
You can actually utilizeanimals differently as well.
Lea Lane (07:26):
Can a person visit your cheetah research center as
a tourist?
Dr. Laurie Marker (07:29):
Yeah, the Cheetah Conservation Fund in
Namibia.
We're outside of the towncalled Ochivarango, if that
means a beautiful place, and inOchivarango we're about 45
minutes out of town.
We have an open to the publicresearch and education facility.
So we are open every day of theyear except Christmas.
(07:49):
Visitors can come in and learnall about the cheetah.
We do have orphan cheetahsthere that we care for and the
public loves to see them andlearn more about why they're
there.
But we have a big museum withour model farm, have livestock
guarding dogs, which are a largebreed of dog to protect
livestock.
Our livestock guarding dogprogram is very integrated into
(08:13):
communities and public visitorscoming and learning more about
the things it takes to work andsave Africa's wildlife.
How does conservation reallywork?
We have a genetics lab.
We've got a veterinary clinic.
Visitors are quite engaged whenthey come and learn.
We also have an overnight areawhere people can stay.
We've got a veterinary clinic.
Visitors are quite engaged whenthey come and learn.
We also have an overnight areawhere people can stay.
We've got the Babson House,which is an exclusive guest
(08:35):
house, and then we have ourSheet of View Lodge, which is
lovely.
Sounds like a wonderfuladdition to the other beautiful
things about Namibia.
Namibia is on the northwestborder, north of South Africa.
The landscape includes lots ofopen spaces with thorn bushes,
scattered farms and towns.
(08:56):
It's one of the least occupiedcountries in the world, I read,
but it also has astoundingbeauty.
It's known mostly for the NabiDesert coming down to the
Atlantic Ocean coast, but italso has mountains and canyons
and savannas.
Stunning.
It was colonized as GermanSouthwest Africa, as you know,
from 1884 until 1915.
(09:17):
And since gaining independencefrom South Africa in 1990, it's
enjoyed decades of politicalstability.
How would you describe yourcountry in general, Laurie?
Oh, open landscapes, breathtaking views,
amazing people and cultures.
Lea Lane (09:34):
Tell us about some of the ethnic groups.
I know there's a wonderfultribe in the north called the
Himba that many people miss.
They're beautiful people.
Dr. Laurie Marker (09:42):
Well, we have about 13 different cultures,
all mixed together and living inharmony.
Namibia is also one of thesafest places and most peaceful
places on earth, which I'm very,very proud of.
The ethnic groups that peoplewill see in many places would be
maybe the Damra speaking people, and Damra are well known
because they have a click Aroob.
(10:03):
That means cheetah.
Are you clicking right?
Lea Lane (10:06):
Now clicking.
Yes, I didn't hear it.
Can you click again?
Dr. Laurie Marker (10:09):
A rube.
It's a very low.
I mean, you know I'm not a goodclicker, but there are the
Herrero speaking people, and theHerrero are characterized, I
think, by the women wearingthese very big, long dresses,
these colonial dresses.
They're beautiful in thesedresses and they're in the
eastern part of the areas andthen their relatives are very,
(10:30):
very far up north, which are theHimba speaking, the Himba being
the most rural of thecommunities.
Namibia is hot, so I'll also saythat we're hot, arid, dry.
We would love rain but we don'tget very much of it.
Where the Himba are, they livein fomas, where their cattle are
with them.
They move where there might besome grasses, but they are a
(10:52):
beautiful culture of people.
The other culture that we havein Namibia that's also very
rural would be the Sand Bushmen,and they are over in the east
as well and they're amazing.
You can go tracking with themand telling stories about the
wildlife and the wildlife theysee and where the wildlife's
gone and why it's gone there.
You can travel into all theseareas when you come to Namibia.
(11:15):
Another very special group arethe Avambu, and that is the main
tribe.
At Independence, Namibia justtook the role of saying you know
, we're not tribal, we are allNamibian.
So we're Namibian first andthen, with that, we do have the
white tribes.
So there's German, there'sAfrikaans, there's English, and
that is very interesting, thateverybody blends together, and I
(11:36):
love the blending of everybody.
English is the spoken languagebecause there are so many
different languages.
At independence, Namibia saidwe're going to speak English,
which?
When I got there, everybody wanted to learn
English from me, and so Ialways say well, they now have
California slang English thatthey speak.
Lea Lane (11:56):
You're changing the world one word at a time, right?
Well, it's a gorgeous countryas well, and I'll just start off
with the part that I think isthe most beautiful.
It's the highest sand dunes inthe world, located in and around
Sousa lay, the southern part ofthe Namib Desert.
It's the oldest desert on earth.
It also may be the mostbeautiful.
(12:16):
For centuries, the wind hassculpted sharp ridges of sand
into arcs that rise from valleyfloors maybe a thousand feet.
Each dune is different and it'sconstantly reshaped by the wind
.
It shifts color throughout theday.
I remember having to get upearly in the morning and it
wasn't easy because I was tired,but we went to see the shadows
(12:39):
on the dunes.
So sometimes you can see halfthe dune in dark shadow and half
in rust red.
Photographer's delight.
You've got the pans of sand andsalt.
It's white against the red.
It's just gorgeous.
The Dune 7 is the highest dunein Namibia.
I believe it's over 1,000 feet.
Call Dune 7 because it's theseventh one you come across when
(13:00):
you cross the river.
Other famous dunes are Dune 45and two that I love.
Big Daddy and Big Mama, haveyou climbed any of these?
Dr. Laurie Marker (13:09):
I have many times yeah, [what's it like?
] It's Climbing sand up, up, up.
Lea Lane (13:15):
I got a little way up.
It's not so easy.
I got partway up, but it's very, very difficult after a while.
Dr. Laurie Marker (13:21):
That's why you get there so early in the
morning, Right, Because it ishot.
But we are also a high desertand so we can be in the summer.
American summers we can bequite cold and so that is also
something to be aware of.
Lea Lane (13:37):
Right, it's a challenge.
I don't know if there's anyplace in the world quite like it
[There isn't.
Dr. Laurie Marker (13:41):
If you go on more to the coast, you end up
seeing the dunes right on thewater as well, which is just
amazing.
Lea Lane (13:48):
Amazing, remembering my trip.
We took a five-hour drive fromSousa Flay to the capital city
of Windhoek in Namibia's centralhighlands, and I remember a
troop of baboons sitting in theroad maybe 75 of them, and herds
of oryx on the side.
These are large pale antelopewith dark markings and straight
(14:09):
horns.
Just the trip itself wassomething because it was on very
empty roads.
There was almost no one, verybasic roads.
What do you recommend seeingand doing in Windhoek?
Dr. Laurie Marker (14:21):
Well, Windhoek's our capital.
This is a joke.
Is that when you get off of thesand dunes and into the city,
of course you're going to go toone of the nice hotels and take
a shower, but that sounds like agood idea, because we do have a
lot of dust and dirt, butbeyond that, lovely shops with
local community craft objects.
We have great restaurants.
(14:42):
The seafood comes from theocean fresh daily.
We have the best oysters, Ithink, in the world.
I'm very partial to our oysters.
Yes, Of course we are ameat-eating country as well.
Our beef is incredible andactually our beef comes to
America.
We're the only country in allof Africa that actually sends
our beef here.
Namibia is a very high standardcountry.
(15:04):
I think we need to also pointout absolutely.
Now.
Lea Lane (15:07):
I had Mahongo soup.
Can you explain what's in that?
Dr. Laurie Marker (15:10):
A soup made out of Mahongo.
It's a millet.
How was it?
Lea Lane (15:15):
It was good.
It was made with fish and, Ithink, goat meat, but I think
you can have it with lamb.
I like to eat something typical, not just beautiful oysters,
which I also like to eat, and Ihad very good green asparagus.
I remember that.
Dr. Laurie Marker (15:27):
The asparagus comes from the coast.
Remember we have a very longcoast.
It has to be about 1,500 miles.
Lea Lane (15:35):
You can drive along and see nobody for hours and
hours.
And the sand, the packed sandroad, is the same color sort of
in an overcast day as the ocean,and they call it the end of the
earth because it feels likethat.
It's a good feeling if you'vegot lots of gas in your tank and
let's go onto the skeletoncoast if you've got lots of gas
in your tank.
Yes, let's go onto the SkeletonCoast.
Dr. Laurie Marker (15:53):
It's called the Skeleton Coast primarily
because boats used to run intoit.
It's a rocky coast, it's not agentle, soft coast.
Apparently there had been anumber of boats that had gone
askew.
Yeah, there's some.
Did you see them ever?
There's a couple along the roadthat you stop in and take
pictures of and abandon for along time.
But the stories go way backwhen harsh harsh lands.
Lea Lane (16:17):
Harsh, harsh land, and if you're with someone or with
a group, I think you wouldn'twant to do this one solo.
I'm a solo traveler, but thisone's pushing it.
Dr. Laurie Marker (16:25):
You can go into Namibia, get a car and
drive anywhere and you'reperfectly safe, and there's not
very many places in the worldyou can say that you're safe for
sure.
Lea Lane (16:33):
Just get that gas tank full.
That would be my one thing.
What about the coastal city ofSwakopmund?
It has sandy beaches, it facesthe Atlantic, it was established
by German colonists in 1892 andhas a lot of colonial landmarks
.
What are a few of them that youwould recommend?
Dr. Laurie Marker (16:49):
Those also are wildlife areas.
We've got Walvis Bay, which issouth a little bit.
It is where we now have BigWharf and if you move north you
can go up and see the sea lions,which are very famous.
These are some of the firstplaces the explorers landed.
Huge, lovely lighthouse there,Pelican Point.
Lea Lane (17:08):
Lighthouse Right and loads and loads of fur seals, I
remember you know the smell ofthem and the sound of them.
You have to get used to it.
But there are over 100,000birds counted in the lagoon.
They're mostly flamingos andpelicans, so it's a beautiful
sight to see that pink againstthe gray coast.
It's very delicate coloring.
Lots of lots of marine life,very wonderful contrast to the
(17:33):
desert.
Dr. Laurie Marker (17:33):
Yeah, Isn't it?
Lea Lane (17:34):
Amazing and they're so close to each other.
I took a plane from Walvis BayArea to dunes.
A lot of people do it that way,With time as a problem.
It's a long way to drive, soyou fly in these tiny planes and
you get to see below you thesered red dunes.
You see how red they are.
Besides a significant cheetahpopulation, Namibia is home to
(17:56):
diverse wildlife.
The most famous national park,Atosha, is in northwestern
Namibia, one of the largestnational parks in Africa, and it
was proclaimed a game reservein 1907.
What animals will you find atAtosha?
Dr. Laurie Marker (18:06):
Oh, Atosha is just so beautiful.
Again, it's a very aridlandscape and so the animals are
covering very vast areas, butwe have huge herds of elephants.
Our elephants also go intoareas near the coast, which are
called desert elephants, soagain we've got some very
specialized species.
Within the park you can seerhinos and giraffe, all the
(18:27):
wildlife species from oryx andhardy, bees, springbok,
everywhere that are bouncingeverywhere, Lions, of course,
hyena, very few cheetahs, [Twokinds of zebra I read ] Mountain
zebra and their plain zebras.
Most people see the plain zebra.
The mountain zebra are muchmore rare and they're also very
shy in many areas that are notnecessarily open to the public,
(18:50):
and but they're mountainous.
Atosha is just incredible forthe amount of wildlife.
You go to these water points.
It's a very arid land and sothe water points the wildlife
congregates in.
It's amazing the kinds ofspecies, the numbers of species
all living there together, andthen the predators, and of
course everybody likes those aswell.
Lea Lane (19:12):
Right.
There are many otherattractions to visit.
I would just include two that Ithink are special.
Fish River Canyon it's thelargest canyon in Africa and the
world's second largest canyon.
It's about 60 million years old.
It was formed when SouthAmerica and Africa separated.
It's 100 miles long.
A challenging hike, have youdone it.
Dr. Laurie Marker (19:33):
I have not done it.
I've been to the rim and I'velooked over.
Lea Lane (19:38):
It's a very challenging hike.
Actually, it is verychallenging.
Dr. Laurie Marker (19:42):
People who have that kind of adventure
definitely.
Lea Lane (19:45):
Good for them.
Then there's Colmanscope GhostTown, and this ghost town is
different from what you usuallythink of because it's filled
with sand.
The desert has taken it oversince about 1956, when it was
abandoned as a former diamondmining town.
Have you been there?
I've been there.
Dr. Laurie Marker (20:03):
And you know what?
There's a lot of hyenas thatlike to live in and out of there
too, and jackals.
They're more nocturnal, but itis.
It's just an amazing place totake pictures.
Of course, when you come toNamibia, bring your camera, but
Namibia is a huge country.
An area that you've missed andI'm not sure if you've been
there has been Damreland yeahwhere the rock etchings are
(20:27):
Trifolfonte, one of my favoriteplaces in the entire world.
It's a World Heritage Site, soit's been developed with
walkways, fortunately, toprotect these amazing rock
etchings that are at least 5,000years old.
But they're etched in andwithin there.
There's also areas where thereare rock paintings, but this
(20:49):
area is etched and they are justincredible, from ostriches and
elephants and rhinos and giraffe, cheetah, kudu, antelope.
They're all on these rocks thatare amazing.
It's like going to a wildlifechurch.
I'm going to say outdoor,incredible art that's there.
Lea Lane (21:09):
What a magnificent picture you're painting.
There are so many things to goand view and visit.
I suggest reading up some moreand maybe adding Namibia, if
you're already flying to SouthAfrica.
I think a lot of people don'tthink of it as being so close to
South Africa.
I know many listeners travel toBotswana and so forth.
It's so close.
Please, if it isn't number one,at least add in a week, if you
(21:34):
can, and be prepared for one ofthe most exhilarating trips of
your life.
Well, the name of the podcastis Places I Remember.
So, Dr.
Laurie Marker, would you pleaseshare a special memory either
of your work with the Cheetahsor of your travels in Namibia,
or both.
Dr. Laurie Marker (21:50):
I love Namibia.
It's my favorite place in theworld and people ask me when I
travel all the time.
I like where I live, which isthe Cheetah Conservation Fund's
land at the base of theWaterberg, which is a national
park, but we've got the mostbeautiful spectacular view of
the Waterberg and this area.
We've got an area that we callthe little Serengeti on our land
(22:14):
and we obviously take people ongame drives and you can see all
kinds of wildlife but with thisspectacular water bird plateau
as our background is justbreathtaking and this is where
we do all of our cheetah workand it's just amazing to see the
cheetahs out in this landscapeas well.
(22:35):
We also see leopards quiteoften, the giraffe and the
rhinos.
I mean, they're just it'sincredible.
So I think that's maybe myvision.
I travel all the time and I'msharing with people the stories
about how to go about savingcheetahs and with that I always
have this vision of theWaterberg in the back of my mind
(22:56):
and all the thoughts that Ihave.
So it's been a lovely countrythat I welcome people to come to
, and working with cheetahs andtrying to save them has been an
amazing voyage and journey thatI've been on for so many years
35 years based in Namibia andwith that, being able to see the
(23:16):
cheetah survive for the futureas one of the world's most
endangered big cats is a job notonly for myself but for
everybody who I think meets acheetah and sees the work that
needs to be done to try to getinvolved in it.
So I welcome people to comevisit also to learn more about
what we do on our website, whichis cheetah.
(23:37):
org, to learn all the differentaspects of community work,
education work, the beauty ofthe biology and the ecology of
the cheetah, and understandingmore about how we can live in
harmony together, if we just try.
Lea Lane (23:53):
Well, beautiful thoughts.
Thank you so much, Dr.
Laurie Marker, for sharing yourinsights about Namibia and for
the outstanding work you dothere for cheetahs.
You are changing the world.
Our planet now faces a globalextinction crisis never
witnessed by humankind.
Scientists predict that morethan a million species are on
(24:13):
track for extinction in thecoming decades.
If you want to help, we'll havemore info in the episode show
notes.
Thanks again, it was a pleasure.
[Thank you, that was very nice,thank you.
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