October 7, 2025 • 25 mins
Margie Goldsmith, author of Becoming a Badass: From Fearful to Fierce, suggests "do one thing every day that scares you" – a mantra that transformed her into the adventure-seeking "badass" she is today. She shares captivating stories from her journeys across more than 100 countries, revealing how memorable travel experiences often arise from unexpected human connections.
We start in the remote mountain paths of Bhutan, where Margie found herself teaching American camp songs to fascinated schoolchildren. In Morocco, what began as local women laughing at her marathon training outfit evolved into a joyous mountain-top celebration.
Her tales take us to Mongolia, where an 85-year-old toothless horseman (the country's fastest racehorse rider) led her across vast plains, and to Easter Island, where she recounts the dangerous traditional Birdman competition where participants risk their lives.
Whether she's distributing harmonicas to children in developing nations, playing blues with an Acadian women's drum corps in Canada, or exchanging personal items with a mountain guide in Argentina despite having no common language, her tales ring with authenticity, and resonate decades later.
From following a Finnish reindeer herder through Lapland's snowy forests to navigating past aggressive elephant seals in Antarctica, Margie demonstrates how facing fears leads to extraordinary experiences and personal growth.
This engaging conversation, including many of Lea's travel tales as well, will inspire you to seek authentic connections in your travels – and challenge yourself, as Margie does. As she proves through her harmonica performance ending the episode, it's never too late to develop new passions and continue growing through travel and creative expression.
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Margie Goldsmith is an award-winning writer, musician, and author of Becoming a Badass: From Fearful to Fierce, available in print, Kindle and audiobook, with Margie narrating (including some of her music!). Contact her at margiegoldsmith.com
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Podcast host Lea Lane has traveled to over 100 countries, and has written nine books, including the award-winning Places I Remember (Kirkus Reviews star rating, and 'one of the top 100 Indie books of the year'). She has contributed to many guidebooks and has written thousands of travel articles. Contact her at placesirememberlealane.com
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Our award-winning travel podcast, Places I Remember with Lea Lane, has dropped over 120 travel episodes! New episodes drop on the first Tuesday of the month, on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you listen to podcasts.
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Travel vlogs of featured podcasts-- with video and graphics -- now drop on YouTube.Please subscribe, like, and comment.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lea Lane (00:00):
Our guest is Margie Goldsmith, multi-award winning
travel and culture writer, whosenew memoir Becoming a Badass
from Fearful to Fierce is justout.
Welcome, Margie, to Places IRemember.
Margie Goldsmith (00:12):
Thank you, Lea .
it's good to be here.
Lea Lane (00:15):
Well, we've each been to well over 100 countries and
we've both been travel writingfor many years, so I thought
it'd be fun for both of us tochat about some of our favorite
places and experiences, and bothof us share some insights and
fun tales with our listeners.
But before we start talkingtravel, I'd love for you to tell
us briefly about your memoirand why you named it Badass.
Margie Goldsmith (00:38):
I think, because most people always talk
about what they want to do butthey never really do it because
they're always afraid.
And my philosophy in life hasalways been since I heard
Eleanor Roosevelt say it on apiece of paper: "Do one thing a
day that scares you.
" So I started doing that, andit always had to do with travel.
And the more difficult thechallenge became, the more I
(01:02):
insisted on doing it and Iconsidered that a badass.
But I didn't start out as abadass, so that's why I call it
From Fearful to Fierce.
Lea Lane (01:11):
I read it.
It's really interesting.
You've had so many differentaspects to your life, not just
travel writer and author, butbusiness owner, and then you've
met so many interesting people.
I highly recommend the book,and I know one of your newer
pursuits has been writing musicand playing bluesy harmonica, or
harp as it's sometimes called.
So maybe we'll end with that,but right now let's talk travel,
(01:33):
and this is going to be quitethe convo.
I asked you to note some ofyour favorite travel tales, and
I'll add my own as well.
Let's start with Bhutan.
Tell us where Bhutan is.
Margie Goldsmith (01:43):
Bhutan is this tiny little kingdom wedged in
between India and China.
Most people have never heard ofit.
It's a place where they sayhappiness is their national
product, because they didn'treally have anything else to
sell in terms of infrastructure.
And I went on an adult outwardbound invitational trip, which
(02:03):
means you're sleeping in tentsand you're climbing mountains,
and the main highway was a dirtpath about as big as two feet
could walk on, and sometimes theIndian army would walk up it
carrying liquor.
For the whole season.
They'd be there all winter.
[Oh really, what kind of liquor?
] P Probably rum.
(02:23):
[Okay.
] what kind of liquor?
Probably rum, uh-huh, okay.
And then one day a mother cameby leading a pony with two
little red-faced toddlers on it,and I was just so entranced.
And then you'd have to pushyourself to the side when you
heard the jingle, jingle of theyak trains, these big, huge,
buffalo-looking animals whocould squish you.
But one day and I'm amiddle-of-the-pack hiker, there
(02:46):
were always the alpha males upahead and the slower people
behind.
So I'm always hiking alone andsuddenly this group of 18
schoolchildren, all in uniform,in the middle of nowhere, come
up to me and say hello, hello.
And I always try to learn helloand thank you in the language.
(03:08):
So I say, "cousin zamba," whichtook me a week to learn, and
they say, oh, and they think Ispeak Bhutanese, which I don't,
and they start to sing to me.
But they sing a song inBhutanese.
It's so familiar to me fromGirl Scout camp it's "do your
ears hang low, do they waddle toand fro.
"
Lea Lane (03:23):
I know that song.
Margie Goldsmith (03:26):
Yes.
So I sang it to them in Englishand I showed them the hand
motions and they learned all thehand motions and then I thought
well, what other song can I doeasily?
So I did Rock my soul in thebosom of Abraham and they all
rocked the baby.
It was such a wonderfulexperience because and they're
touching my Gore-Tex They'dnever seen fabric like that.
(03:48):
They followed me all the way tocamp.
I would have had them all sleepin my tent with me, but the
guide kicked them out.
But I will never forget meetingthese children and connecting
with them.
Without a word of the samelanguage in the middle, perfect.
Lea Lane (04:02):
I think some of the best, best memories are with
people and with childrenespecially.
I have one little memory, whenyou brought it to mind.
I was in Oman, which is in theMiddle East, a beautiful country
, mountainous country, and I wasat a river and these children
came by.
They asked to take a picturewith me.
Someone took a picture of usand I got the picture.
(04:26):
I looked at it and it wasadorable because they're all
smiling.
But one of the little girls hadher hand up behind my head with
the two fingers.
You know the littleinternational sign for stupid or
devil.
It was the most charming memory.
It's tiny, just like yours,just tiny and wonderful.
Okay, what about Morocco?
You have a memory there.
Margie Goldsmith (04:47):
Well, in Morocco I was training for a
marathon and I was in the AtlasMountains or the Altus Mountains
, I'm not sure how you pronouncethem.
Very hilly, and you don't wearshorts.
In Morocco you don't weart-shirts, but I'm American and I
was wearing shorts and t-shirtsbecause I was training for this
marathon and it was hot.
So I run all the way down thehill and I'm passing these
(05:08):
truckloads of cars, of peoplecoming back from work, laughing
at me, and there were twoMoroccan women, all in their
jalabas and their little pointyslippers, pointing and laughing
at me and I thought, ok, youknow, this is a little weird.
Maybe it's my outfit, maybepeople just don't run in Morocco
.
So I get to the bottom of thehill and now I start to run up
(05:29):
and I'm halfway up the mountainand suddenly those two women who
had been laughing at me grab ahand each and we scream all the
way to the top of the mountainand you know that sound they can
make with their mouths that wecan't.
Lea Lane (05:44):
Oh, you can do it, I can I can I know?
Margie Goldsmith (05:46):
I know, and it was the most joyful moment.
They had run with thisforeigner for the first time in
their lives and I had run withthem, and it's those moments
that you never, ever forget.
That might have been 25 yearsago, oh yeah.
But I can still see themsmiling and cackling at the top
of the mountain.
Lea Lane (06:07):
I can hear it too, because I know that sound,
because I hear it a lot, I guessthey learn it early.
It's like a happy sound, reallyright yeah.
Margie Goldsmith (06:15):
We learned to snap our fingers and they
learned to do the screechingfrom the back of the throat.
Lea Lane (06:20):
All right, so how about Mongolia?
Margie Goldsmith (06:26):
I've always wanted to horseback ride and of
course I never could.
That was always for rich kids.
So I get to Mongolia and theysay what do you want to do?
I say I want a horseback ride.
They say fine, because it's allopen plains, there are no
fences anywhere.
So they bring me this horsebackrider with his horse and I look
at him and he's got to be 85years old and he's got his
little cap on and he smiles.
He has no teeth.
(06:47):
And I turned to my guide.
I go you're sending me withthis guy.
And they say listen, madam,he's the fastest racehorse rider
in the country.
He just rode eight ponies infrom the West today.
You should be so lucky to ridewith him.
So my knees are shaking, I'mshaking.
He takes my horse, he ropes upa rope, he tethers it to my
(07:10):
horse.
He's right next to me.
We are knee to knee, elbow toelbow, arm to arm.
I'm holding onto the horn fordear life.
They call it the sissy bar.
And we take off across thehills of Mongolia and about
every 10 miles or so you pass agare which is their version of a
tent and everybody's going.
Ha, ha, ha ha.
(07:30):
They're laughing because it'sso ridiculous the American woman
with a brilliant rider.
But I did it and it was fun.
Just another moment.
You just don't forget thosethings.
Lea Lane (07:40):
I know I'm thinking of a moment on a horse too.
I was on Lake Louise in BritishColumbia in Canada and I wanted
to go horseback riding.
It's so beautiful, you know,just gorgeous turquoise blue
lakes.
And so I asked about it.
They said oh, it's very easy,An 85-year-old just rode a horse
around the lake and it's fine.
So I'm not a very goodhorseback rider, to say the
(08:01):
least.
So I got on the horse.
I said, well, if someone thatold can do it I could.
I was young at the time and itwas five hours on the edge of a
precipice with rocks fallingdown, and I just was praying
that the horse wanted to livebecause it was all up to him.
I was so exhausted at the endof those five hours even though
I wasn't walking, I was justsitting, that I fell off the
(08:22):
horse.
When I saw the stable, I justcouldn't even wait till the
stable, I just dropped off thehorse.
I was so happy.
So I know what that feels likea little bit when you're riding
and people say, oh, you can doit, it's fine.
Margie Goldsmith (08:35):
No problem.
You know, before I had gottento this guy in the mountains of
Mongolia, I had gone to anational park with a guide and
he said do you want a helmet?
And I said yes, and he gives methis like 1920s helmet,
probably a bike helmet, and thehorse is about two feet high.
He goes.
You might think our horses arevery little, but they are very
fast.
They are the fastest horses inthe world.
(08:56):
Now you might have to hold onto the sissy bar and you don't
say giddy up, you say choo.
So I go choo, the horse doesn'tmove.
I go choo, the horse doesn'tmove.
He starts to kick the horsewith his whip.
Horse doesn't move.
I say let's switch horses.
He goes no, no, no, no.
You don't understand.
You have the fastest racehorsehorses.
(09:19):
Same thing.
The horse wouldn't move.
For three hours.
He pulled me by the rope withhis horse.
It was so uncomfortable andthey have these awful wooden
saddles.
So I think I'm done with myhorseback riding days as are you
.
Lea Lane (09:36):
Okay, how about Peru?
Margie Goldsmith (09:38):
In Peru, I had decided to go follow an
archaeologist who was lookingfor Peruvian mummies in the
cloud forest, which is more likea mud forest because it's so
muddy.
And a woman had gotten creditfor finding these mummies.
But this guy, Peter Lerche, wholater became the mayor of
Lemibamba, was the actual finderof the mummies.
(10:00):
So we take off on this trekkingtrip and he doesn't wait for us
.
He's like Peter Pan.
He is skipping over the stones.
We don't know which way to go.
Meanwhile we're in mud up toour knees and you have to stop
and pull out your rubber bootand start again.
And then we stop for lunch.
And I go.
Well, where's lunch?
He goes well.
Didn't you take some crackerson the way out for lunch?
(10:21):
And I said no, so there was nolunch.
But that night there's thishowling going on and he comes to
my tent and he goes.
Can you help us?
I go.
What's the matter?
He goes.
Well, one of our guides who wasin jail for killing a man has a
horrible toothache.
He's in so much pain we don'tknow what he's going to do.
(10:41):
Well, I had one leftover Ambienfrom something.
As an emergency I gave it tohim.
They were so happy.
The next day I was the heroine.
They go now we need one fortonight and I had no more.
None of us slept that night.
It was very funny.
Lea Lane (10:58):
Go to Antarctica.
How about that?
Margie Goldsmith (11:00):
Well, in Antarctica you're out all the
time from your boat and you walkalong the shores and you have
to pass a lot of seals, andsometimes it's elephant seals.
They are big, they are ugly,they are mean, they have huge
teeth and I've never been morescared in my life.
So our guide is taking twostones and tapping them together
(11:20):
and thinking that the noisewill stop them.
So we keep on walking alonglike that and I was just really
holding onto his waist, justpraying that we could get
through this gauntlet.
And then another time, we'refollowing Shackleton's footsteps
, so we're in a dinghy but it'sgot a leak in it and there's an
elephant seal following us andwe're near Elephantine Island
(11:43):
whatever it was called,
Lea Lane (11:44):
well, that's appropriate
Margie Goldsmith (11:45):
which is very scary because it's got big waves
and I was sure that this was aleopard seal.
He was going to devour us andeat us.
Lea Lane (11:55):
is remember elephant seals.
Yeah, the noises, they theybellow, and the smell.
When you have a lot of themit's like a men's locker room on
steroids.
Quite a sensual feast, I wouldsay.
But again, a memory.
All these things are wonderfulmemories.
At the time.
Margie Goldsmith (12:13):
They may be scary or funny, whatever, but
they, they last yeah, isn't itinteresting that we both
remember these things as vividly, as though it were yesterday
it's not the prepared thing, somuch you know.
Lea Lane (12:24):
Very often they're wonderful things, but it's the
unexpected.
Margie Goldsmith (12:27):
Yes.
Lea Lane (12:28):
Okay, let's go to Mexico.
You have a good memory theretoo.
Margie Goldsmith (12:31):
Okay.
So I decided to go to Mexico totake a curso de inmersión, the
intensive, immersive five-weekcourse in Spanish.
And it was right beforeChristmas.
And I walk out into the squareof Oaxaca and you see radishes
the size of watermelons and aslong as the biggest squash
(12:53):
you've ever seen, and they callit the Radish Festival and it
takes place the day beforeChristmas Eve and they are
carving the most beautifulfigures out of these radishes.
Sometimes it's the nativityscene, sometimes it's just
someone on horseback, sometimesit's someone making mola, but
it's art and it's eventuallyjust going to get thrown away.
(13:16):
But the shock of seeingsomething so unexpected was just
one of those experiences that,unless you travel, you're never
going to get that.
Lea Lane (13:26):
In some areas you use red as a color in Christmas, but
that seems to be a beautifulsymbol.
I wonder if that has anythingto do with it.
Do they make food out of theradishes after, or do you know?
Or they just throw them all out.
Margie Goldsmith (13:37):
There's a lot of food around with radishes
that you can eat, but these areart things.
I'm not sure if it's the colorred or maybe radishes are in
season because their seasons arethe opposite of ours.
Lea Lane (13:48):
Right, it's interesting.
I went to a Spanish immersionschool too, in Antigua,
Guatemala, where they speakperfect Spanish.
I remember vividly my tutorthere.
She was a lovely girl from avillage and she walked hours to
get there every day and she wasa poet.
She showed me some of herpoetry and it was absolutely
(14:09):
beautiful and I brought it backand I showed it around but
nothing ever came of publishingit.
But you just never know.
This was a village girl inGuatemala who was a beautiful
poet.
So I remember her.
I honor her right now because Ihaven't thought of her in a
while.
So thank you for making meremember her.
Margie Goldsmith (14:27):
And how is your Spanish.
Lea Lane (14:29):
My Spanish is okay, así, así
Margie Goldsmith (14:33):
Better than mine,
Lea Lane (14:35):
Poco a poco.
Okay, Easter Island, tell me.
Margie Goldsmith (14:39):
Have you been to Easter Island?
Lea Lane (14:40):
Yes, I have.
Margie Goldsmith (14:41):
Okay, so everybody goes for the Moai.
Yes, big, huge sculptures whichthey claim walked around to
their places.
They cut down every tree inEaster Island, so you know they
rolled them like train tracks.
But they have a festival calledthe Birdman Festival.
Did they take you up there?
Lea Lane (14:59):
And I did see the big caldera where they fly.
Margie Goldsmith (15:02):
Yeah, and so what they do is they keep a
virgin down in a cave so sheremains lily white, because the
winner is going to get thevirgin and become chief for the
year, and it's all these 19 to25-year-old boys.
They have to make their ownraft out of straw, jump off a
cliff with a raft, swim as fastas they can, using the raft as a
(15:24):
surfboard, and get to theisland to get the first terns
egg.
That happens during Easter timeduring the spring.
They take that egg and they putit on a kind of a handkerchief
made out of string on theirforehead, swim back through the
shark-infested waters and haveto climb back up the cliff.
And the first one up the cliffwith the egg wins.
(15:46):
So the following happensEverybody's got a knife and
they all try to stab each otherwith a knife because then the
sharks will get them.
So that's one way to get rid ofthem.
If they haven't gotten rid oftheir competitor and the
competitor has the egg, they tryto grab the egg and they stab
them as they're trying to go upthe cliff, so they'll fall down
(16:06):
the cliff.
I mean it's a horriblecutthroat and I mean that's a
competition now.
Lea Lane (16:13):
Like a cutthroat Iron Man
Margie Goldsmith (16:15):
Well, that's exactly what it is with the
prize being the Virgin and theChief.
Oh my gosh.
The Christians banned it whenthey came in, but they started
it again, and I think Red Bullis sponsoring it now.
Lea Lane (16:28):
Oh my, that's appropriate, right, okay, that's
a memory.
That's kind of gruesome, butit's vivid.
How about Argentina?
Margie Goldsmith (16:39):
One of the most beautiful countries of the
world, with so much to offer interms of architecture and
culture and dancing and tangoand life on the streets, and I
was actually trying to climb avolcano there,
Lea Lane (16:54):
oh, really.
Margie Goldsmith (16:56):
Down in Patagonia and our guide was
wearing the typical hand mittensand a wool cap.
And we got up to the top of themountain and they make a little
toast with tobacco and whiskeyto the four corners of the world
or the four directions of thegods, and we looked at each
other and we both started cryingand he gave me his hat and I
(17:21):
gave him my red fleece hat andhe gave me his mittens and I
gave him my red fleece mittensand it was such a connection.
I didn't speak a word ofSpanish at that time.
That was before Mexican schooland I will never forget that I
still have his mittens and hat.
Oh, it's always the people,always the connection.
Lea Lane (17:40):
Well, it's always the people, except in Argentina.
I went to an area it's a naturereserve called Punta Tombo.
I don't know if you've beenthere.
It's the world's largest colonyof Magellanic penguins and it's
awesome, if you like penguins.
They don't look like the onesin Antarctica.
They're smaller.
They're the cutest things.
They come right up to you.
One tried to get in the buswith me.
(18:01):
He followed me into the bus.
It was so cute.
He waited in line, he queued up, he was standing there, but
there are thousands andthousands of them.
I went twice.
The second time there were notas many.
I'm hoping it was just thetiming and not the climate
change or anything.
But yeah, animals also are awonderful memory for me, besides
people.
(18:21):
How about Canada?
Margie Goldsmith (18:23):
Well, I was in New Brunswick at the Acadian
Festival.
In Moncton, which is the middleof nowhere, every house was
decorated with the Acadian flagand flowers and it was like our
4th of July and there was aparade on the street.
Lea Lane (18:38):
Yes, I've been to that they bang right, they bang
everything.
Yes, very noisy.
Margie Goldsmith (18:42):
They had a whole drum corps of women, not
to mention all the littleinstruments, toy instruments and
everybody's banging andlaughing and screaming and this
drum corps of 12 women comes by.
I jump into the middle of thefray with my harmonica and just
played with them for three hoursand it was so much fun.
(19:05):
It was no judgment, it was notare you playing well enough, it
was just becoming part of theirculture.
I think is what you and I bothdo.
We immerse ourselves into wherewe are.
Lea Lane (19:19):
Absolutely, and I think if you have a good
attitude and you smile at people, people will respond to you
wherever you are in the world,whether you speak the language
or not.
As you mentioned, there are acouple of words you can learn
and even if you don't learn anywords, if you smile at someone
and and are friendly, you'regoing to get that back and I
think it's so important today.
(19:39):
I'll finish with Finland.
Tell us.
Tell us about
Margie Goldsmith (19:43):
So I went to Lapland and I followed a Finnish
reindeer herder.
He put me in like a Michelinsuit of a nice, warm suit which
was made of everything reindeer.
They use every part of thereindeer which they keep in
herds.
So we drove out by snowmobileto his reindeer herd, which was
about five miles away in theforest.
(20:04):
Don't think that wasn't a cold,bumpy ride.
And they used to ski out tothese reindeer, which is why
their boots are all turned up atthe toes, because that's how
they put their ski boots ontothe skis.
So we get out there and he goesand suddenly here, clack, clack,
clack, all the reindeer come.
He feeds them, he makes a fireout of rubbing two sticks
(20:26):
together and cooks some reindeersausage.
And then we went back and hesaid I'm going to teach you how
to lasso a reindeer.
So he had a little woodenreindeer there and I had to
lasso it.
But the experience of beingwith him and learning how
important the reindeer are.
You never ask a Sami reindeerherder how big his herd is,
(20:46):
because that's like asking howmuch money you have in the bank.
Lea Lane (20:50):
Really I won't do that .
It's a no-no.
I did do that as well.
I remember we had reindeergames where we had races.
The thing I remember most aboutthat.
This was maybe 25 years ago.
It was the first time I'd seena cell phone.
The reindeer herder had a cellphone because I think they
(21:10):
started Nokia, I think startedin Finland and they used them
because of the distances andthat was the first time I ever
saw anyone using one.
So that's a memory.
Anyway, these are fabulousexperiences.
I know you have so many more,some of them in your book, but
just endless wonderful things.
We're both so lucky to havechosen travel writing as a way
(21:30):
of life.
Margie Goldsmith (21:31):
And we're not done, we're not done.
Lea Lane (21:32):
We're still doing it.
We've done it a long time.
We're slowing down but we'renot done.
Well, but we're keeping up,down and up.
The name of the podcast isPlaces I Remember.
So let's end on a travel memorywe shared.
A few years ago you wereplaying your first quote-unquote
international road trip,playing your blues harmonica in
Nova Scotia and New Brunswick,Canada.
I came along as kind of acompanion groupie and you were
(21:59):
playing gigs informally.
I caught the feeling of howgreat it is not only to be a
musician but to react withpeople.
It was wonderful.
It was so free and I just wasdelighted to see how you went up
there and this was at thebeginning of your musicianship,
years ago.
But you were up there playingand I just wanted to know
traveling and playing music, doyou have any experiences you
want to share and maybeafterwards share a little bit of
(22:20):
your music?
Margie Goldsmith (22:22):
Sure, I would love to.
I bring my harmonica every placeI go and I get in touch with
Hohner Music and I ask them tosend me 30 harmonicas.
And when I'm in third worldcountries like Mongolia or Papua
New Guinea or Myanmar, I ask tobe put in touch with the third
or fourth grade class, becausethat's when they're really
(22:42):
getting into it, and I give themeach a harmonica and I teach
them how to blow in and blow outand they're joyful.
And once when I was in with theBotwi Pygmies -- I'm having a
blank --somewhere in Uganda Ihad given the kids the
harmonicas the day before andthe next day we were leaving and
(23:03):
I had left my little cabin andI was walking towards the place
where you put your suitcase andI hear this harmonica in the
forest and I followed the littlepath and there's a little
eight-year-old boy who's gottena harmonica, big grin on his
face, playing, and it justtouched me.
It was so moving because youcan change a person's life by
bringing music into it.
(23:24):
And they have nothing.
You know they will play withstones the way we play with toys
as children.
Lea Lane (23:30):
Exactly.
This is a perfect time for youto perhaps play us something as
we end this convo.
Will you riff a bit?
bit s this has been travel, Ifigured I'd do a very
international song ¶¶.
(24:28):
So great.
Margie Goldsmith, travelculture writer, musician and
author of Becoming a Badass FromFearful to Fierce.
There's no doubt that youdeserve the title of your book.
Thank you so much.
Margie Goldsmith (24:42):
Thank you so much, Lea .
.
s.
And you are .
" Oh O , oh my goodness, thankyou.
Our guest is Margie Goldsmith, multi-award winning
travel and culture writer, whosenew memoir Becoming a Badass
from Fearful to Fierce is justout.
Welcome, Margie, to Places IRemember.
Margie Goldsmith (00:12):
Thank you, Lea .
it's good to be here.
Lea Lane (00:15):
Well, we've each been to well over 100 countries and
we've both been travel writingfor many years, so I thought
it'd be fun for both of us tochat about some of our favorite
places and experiences, and bothof us share some insights and
fun tales with our listeners.
But before we start talkingtravel, I'd love for you to tell
us briefly about your memoirand why you named it Badass.
Margie Goldsmith (00:38):
I think, because most people always talk
about what they want to do butthey never really do it because
they're always afraid.
And my philosophy in life hasalways been since I heard
Eleanor Roosevelt say it on apiece of paper: "Do one thing a
day that scares you.
" So I started doing that, andit always had to do with travel.
And the more difficult thechallenge became, the more I
(01:02):
insisted on doing it and Iconsidered that a badass.
But I didn't start out as abadass, so that's why I call it
From Fearful to Fierce.
Lea Lane (01:11):
I read it.
It's really interesting.
You've had so many differentaspects to your life, not just
travel writer and author, butbusiness owner, and then you've
met so many interesting people.
I highly recommend the book,and I know one of your newer
pursuits has been writing musicand playing bluesy harmonica, or
harp as it's sometimes called.
So maybe we'll end with that,but right now let's talk travel,
(01:33):
and this is going to be quitethe convo.
I asked you to note some ofyour favorite travel tales, and
I'll add my own as well.
Let's start with Bhutan.
Tell us where Bhutan is.
Margie Goldsmith (01:43):
Bhutan is this tiny little kingdom wedged in
between India and China.
Most people have never heard ofit.
It's a place where they sayhappiness is their national
product, because they didn'treally have anything else to
sell in terms of infrastructure.
And I went on an adult outwardbound invitational trip, which
(02:03):
means you're sleeping in tentsand you're climbing mountains,
and the main highway was a dirtpath about as big as two feet
could walk on, and sometimes theIndian army would walk up it
carrying liquor.
For the whole season.
They'd be there all winter.
[Oh really, what kind of liquor?
] P Probably rum.
(02:23):
[Okay.
] what kind of liquor?
Probably rum, uh-huh, okay.
And then one day a mother cameby leading a pony with two
little red-faced toddlers on it,and I was just so entranced.
And then you'd have to pushyourself to the side when you
heard the jingle, jingle of theyak trains, these big, huge,
buffalo-looking animals whocould squish you.
But one day and I'm amiddle-of-the-pack hiker, there
(02:46):
were always the alpha males upahead and the slower people
behind.
So I'm always hiking alone andsuddenly this group of 18
schoolchildren, all in uniform,in the middle of nowhere, come
up to me and say hello, hello.
And I always try to learn helloand thank you in the language.
(03:08):
So I say, "cousin zamba," whichtook me a week to learn, and
they say, oh, and they think Ispeak Bhutanese, which I don't,
and they start to sing to me.
But they sing a song inBhutanese.
It's so familiar to me fromGirl Scout camp it's "do your
ears hang low, do they waddle toand fro.
"
Lea Lane (03:23):
I know that song.
Margie Goldsmith (03:26):
Yes.
So I sang it to them in Englishand I showed them the hand
motions and they learned all thehand motions and then I thought
well, what other song can I doeasily?
So I did Rock my soul in thebosom of Abraham and they all
rocked the baby.
It was such a wonderfulexperience because and they're
touching my Gore-Tex They'dnever seen fabric like that.
(03:48):
They followed me all the way tocamp.
I would have had them all sleepin my tent with me, but the
guide kicked them out.
But I will never forget meetingthese children and connecting
with them.
Without a word of the samelanguage in the middle, perfect.
Lea Lane (04:02):
I think some of the best, best memories are with
people and with childrenespecially.
I have one little memory, whenyou brought it to mind.
I was in Oman, which is in theMiddle East, a beautiful country
, mountainous country, and I wasat a river and these children
came by.
They asked to take a picturewith me.
Someone took a picture of usand I got the picture.
(04:26):
I looked at it and it wasadorable because they're all
smiling.
But one of the little girls hadher hand up behind my head with
the two fingers.
You know the littleinternational sign for stupid or
devil.
It was the most charming memory.
It's tiny, just like yours,just tiny and wonderful.
Okay, what about Morocco?
You have a memory there.
Margie Goldsmith (04:47):
Well, in Morocco I was training for a
marathon and I was in the AtlasMountains or the Altus Mountains
, I'm not sure how you pronouncethem.
Very hilly, and you don't wearshorts.
In Morocco you don't weart-shirts, but I'm American and I
was wearing shorts and t-shirtsbecause I was training for this
marathon and it was hot.
So I run all the way down thehill and I'm passing these
(05:08):
truckloads of cars, of peoplecoming back from work, laughing
at me, and there were twoMoroccan women, all in their
jalabas and their little pointyslippers, pointing and laughing
at me and I thought, ok, youknow, this is a little weird.
Maybe it's my outfit, maybepeople just don't run in Morocco
.
So I get to the bottom of thehill and now I start to run up
(05:29):
and I'm halfway up the mountainand suddenly those two women who
had been laughing at me grab ahand each and we scream all the
way to the top of the mountainand you know that sound they can
make with their mouths that wecan't.
Lea Lane (05:44):
Oh, you can do it, I can I can I know?
Margie Goldsmith (05:46):
I know, and it was the most joyful moment.
They had run with thisforeigner for the first time in
their lives and I had run withthem, and it's those moments
that you never, ever forget.
That might have been 25 yearsago, oh yeah.
But I can still see themsmiling and cackling at the top
of the mountain.
Lea Lane (06:07):
I can hear it too, because I know that sound,
because I hear it a lot, I guessthey learn it early.
It's like a happy sound, reallyright yeah.
Margie Goldsmith (06:15):
We learned to snap our fingers and they
learned to do the screechingfrom the back of the throat.
Lea Lane (06:20):
All right, so how about Mongolia?
Margie Goldsmith (06:26):
I've always wanted to horseback ride and of
course I never could.
That was always for rich kids.
So I get to Mongolia and theysay what do you want to do?
I say I want a horseback ride.
They say fine, because it's allopen plains, there are no
fences anywhere.
So they bring me this horsebackrider with his horse and I look
at him and he's got to be 85years old and he's got his
little cap on and he smiles.
He has no teeth.
(06:47):
And I turned to my guide.
I go you're sending me withthis guy.
And they say listen, madam,he's the fastest racehorse rider
in the country.
He just rode eight ponies infrom the West today.
You should be so lucky to ridewith him.
So my knees are shaking, I'mshaking.
He takes my horse, he ropes upa rope, he tethers it to my
(07:10):
horse.
He's right next to me.
We are knee to knee, elbow toelbow, arm to arm.
I'm holding onto the horn fordear life.
They call it the sissy bar.
And we take off across thehills of Mongolia and about
every 10 miles or so you pass agare which is their version of a
tent and everybody's going.
Ha, ha, ha ha.
(07:30):
They're laughing because it'sso ridiculous the American woman
with a brilliant rider.
But I did it and it was fun.
Just another moment.
You just don't forget thosethings.
Lea Lane (07:40):
I know I'm thinking of a moment on a horse too.
I was on Lake Louise in BritishColumbia in Canada and I wanted
to go horseback riding.
It's so beautiful, you know,just gorgeous turquoise blue
lakes.
And so I asked about it.
They said oh, it's very easy,An 85-year-old just rode a horse
around the lake and it's fine.
So I'm not a very goodhorseback rider, to say the
(08:01):
least.
So I got on the horse.
I said, well, if someone thatold can do it I could.
I was young at the time and itwas five hours on the edge of a
precipice with rocks fallingdown, and I just was praying
that the horse wanted to livebecause it was all up to him.
I was so exhausted at the endof those five hours even though
I wasn't walking, I was justsitting, that I fell off the
(08:22):
horse.
When I saw the stable, I justcouldn't even wait till the
stable, I just dropped off thehorse.
I was so happy.
So I know what that feels likea little bit when you're riding
and people say, oh, you can doit, it's fine.
Margie Goldsmith (08:35):
No problem.
You know, before I had gottento this guy in the mountains of
Mongolia, I had gone to anational park with a guide and
he said do you want a helmet?
And I said yes, and he gives methis like 1920s helmet,
probably a bike helmet, and thehorse is about two feet high.
He goes.
You might think our horses arevery little, but they are very
fast.
They are the fastest horses inthe world.
(08:56):
Now you might have to hold onto the sissy bar and you don't
say giddy up, you say choo.
So I go choo, the horse doesn'tmove.
I go choo, the horse doesn'tmove.
He starts to kick the horsewith his whip.
Horse doesn't move.
I say let's switch horses.
He goes no, no, no, no.
You don't understand.
You have the fastest racehorsehorses.
(09:19):
Same thing.
The horse wouldn't move.
For three hours.
He pulled me by the rope withhis horse.
It was so uncomfortable andthey have these awful wooden
saddles.
So I think I'm done with myhorseback riding days as are you
.
Lea Lane (09:36):
Okay, how about Peru?
Margie Goldsmith (09:38):
In Peru, I had decided to go follow an
archaeologist who was lookingfor Peruvian mummies in the
cloud forest, which is more likea mud forest because it's so
muddy.
And a woman had gotten creditfor finding these mummies.
But this guy, Peter Lerche, wholater became the mayor of
Lemibamba, was the actual finderof the mummies.
(10:00):
So we take off on this trekkingtrip and he doesn't wait for us
.
He's like Peter Pan.
He is skipping over the stones.
We don't know which way to go.
Meanwhile we're in mud up toour knees and you have to stop
and pull out your rubber bootand start again.
And then we stop for lunch.
And I go.
Well, where's lunch?
He goes well.
Didn't you take some crackerson the way out for lunch?
(10:21):
And I said no, so there was nolunch.
But that night there's thishowling going on and he comes to
my tent and he goes.
Can you help us?
I go.
What's the matter?
He goes.
Well, one of our guides who wasin jail for killing a man has a
horrible toothache.
He's in so much pain we don'tknow what he's going to do.
(10:41):
Well, I had one leftover Ambienfrom something.
As an emergency I gave it tohim.
They were so happy.
The next day I was the heroine.
They go now we need one fortonight and I had no more.
None of us slept that night.
It was very funny.
Lea Lane (10:58):
Go to Antarctica.
How about that?
Margie Goldsmith (11:00):
Well, in Antarctica you're out all the
time from your boat and you walkalong the shores and you have
to pass a lot of seals, andsometimes it's elephant seals.
They are big, they are ugly,they are mean, they have huge
teeth and I've never been morescared in my life.
So our guide is taking twostones and tapping them together
(11:20):
and thinking that the noisewill stop them.
So we keep on walking alonglike that and I was just really
holding onto his waist, justpraying that we could get
through this gauntlet.
And then another time, we'refollowing Shackleton's footsteps
, so we're in a dinghy but it'sgot a leak in it and there's an
elephant seal following us andwe're near Elephantine Island
(11:43):
whatever it was called,
Lea Lane (11:44):
well, that's appropriate
Margie Goldsmith (11:45):
which is very scary because it's got big waves
and I was sure that this was aleopard seal.
He was going to devour us andeat us.
Lea Lane (11:55):
is remember elephant seals.
Yeah, the noises, they theybellow, and the smell.
When you have a lot of themit's like a men's locker room on
steroids.
Quite a sensual feast, I wouldsay.
But again, a memory.
All these things are wonderfulmemories.
At the time.
Margie Goldsmith (12:13):
They may be scary or funny, whatever, but
they, they last yeah, isn't itinteresting that we both
remember these things as vividly, as though it were yesterday
it's not the prepared thing, somuch you know.
Lea Lane (12:24):
Very often they're wonderful things, but it's the
unexpected.
Margie Goldsmith (12:27):
Yes.
Lea Lane (12:28):
Okay, let's go to Mexico.
You have a good memory theretoo.
Margie Goldsmith (12:31):
Okay.
So I decided to go to Mexico totake a curso de inmersión, the
intensive, immersive five-weekcourse in Spanish.
And it was right beforeChristmas.
And I walk out into the squareof Oaxaca and you see radishes
the size of watermelons and aslong as the biggest squash
(12:53):
you've ever seen, and they callit the Radish Festival and it
takes place the day beforeChristmas Eve and they are
carving the most beautifulfigures out of these radishes.
Sometimes it's the nativityscene, sometimes it's just
someone on horseback, sometimesit's someone making mola, but
it's art and it's eventuallyjust going to get thrown away.
(13:16):
But the shock of seeingsomething so unexpected was just
one of those experiences that,unless you travel, you're never
going to get that.
Lea Lane (13:26):
In some areas you use red as a color in Christmas, but
that seems to be a beautifulsymbol.
I wonder if that has anythingto do with it.
Do they make food out of theradishes after, or do you know?
Or they just throw them all out.
Margie Goldsmith (13:37):
There's a lot of food around with radishes
that you can eat, but these areart things.
I'm not sure if it's the colorred or maybe radishes are in
season because their seasons arethe opposite of ours.
Lea Lane (13:48):
Right, it's interesting.
I went to a Spanish immersionschool too, in Antigua,
Guatemala, where they speakperfect Spanish.
I remember vividly my tutorthere.
She was a lovely girl from avillage and she walked hours to
get there every day and she wasa poet.
She showed me some of herpoetry and it was absolutely
(14:09):
beautiful and I brought it backand I showed it around but
nothing ever came of publishingit.
But you just never know.
This was a village girl inGuatemala who was a beautiful
poet.
So I remember her.
I honor her right now because Ihaven't thought of her in a
while.
So thank you for making meremember her.
Margie Goldsmith (14:27):
And how is your Spanish.
Lea Lane (14:29):
My Spanish is okay, así, así
Margie Goldsmith (14:33):
Better than mine,
Lea Lane (14:35):
Poco a poco.
Okay, Easter Island, tell me.
Margie Goldsmith (14:39):
Have you been to Easter Island?
Lea Lane (14:40):
Yes, I have.
Margie Goldsmith (14:41):
Okay, so everybody goes for the Moai.
Yes, big, huge sculptures whichthey claim walked around to
their places.
They cut down every tree inEaster Island, so you know they
rolled them like train tracks.
But they have a festival calledthe Birdman Festival.
Did they take you up there?
Lea Lane (14:59):
And I did see the big caldera where they fly.
Margie Goldsmith (15:02):
Yeah, and so what they do is they keep a
virgin down in a cave so sheremains lily white, because the
winner is going to get thevirgin and become chief for the
year, and it's all these 19 to25-year-old boys.
They have to make their ownraft out of straw, jump off a
cliff with a raft, swim as fastas they can, using the raft as a
(15:24):
surfboard, and get to theisland to get the first terns
egg.
That happens during Easter timeduring the spring.
They take that egg and they putit on a kind of a handkerchief
made out of string on theirforehead, swim back through the
shark-infested waters and haveto climb back up the cliff.
And the first one up the cliffwith the egg wins.
(15:46):
So the following happensEverybody's got a knife and
they all try to stab each otherwith a knife because then the
sharks will get them.
So that's one way to get rid ofthem.
If they haven't gotten rid oftheir competitor and the
competitor has the egg, they tryto grab the egg and they stab
them as they're trying to go upthe cliff, so they'll fall down
(16:06):
the cliff.
I mean it's a horriblecutthroat and I mean that's a
competition now.
Lea Lane (16:13):
Like a cutthroat Iron Man
Margie Goldsmith (16:15):
Well, that's exactly what it is with the
prize being the Virgin and theChief.
Oh my gosh.
The Christians banned it whenthey came in, but they started
it again, and I think Red Bullis sponsoring it now.
Lea Lane (16:28):
Oh my, that's appropriate, right, okay, that's
a memory.
That's kind of gruesome, butit's vivid.
How about Argentina?
Margie Goldsmith (16:39):
One of the most beautiful countries of the
world, with so much to offer interms of architecture and
culture and dancing and tangoand life on the streets, and I
was actually trying to climb avolcano there,
Lea Lane (16:54):
oh, really.
Margie Goldsmith (16:56):
Down in Patagonia and our guide was
wearing the typical hand mittensand a wool cap.
And we got up to the top of themountain and they make a little
toast with tobacco and whiskeyto the four corners of the world
or the four directions of thegods, and we looked at each
other and we both started cryingand he gave me his hat and I
(17:21):
gave him my red fleece hat andhe gave me his mittens and I
gave him my red fleece mittensand it was such a connection.
I didn't speak a word ofSpanish at that time.
That was before Mexican schooland I will never forget that I
still have his mittens and hat.
Oh, it's always the people,always the connection.
Lea Lane (17:40):
Well, it's always the people, except in Argentina.
I went to an area it's a naturereserve called Punta Tombo.
I don't know if you've beenthere.
It's the world's largest colonyof Magellanic penguins and it's
awesome, if you like penguins.
They don't look like the onesin Antarctica.
They're smaller.
They're the cutest things.
They come right up to you.
One tried to get in the buswith me.
(18:01):
He followed me into the bus.
It was so cute.
He waited in line, he queued up, he was standing there, but
there are thousands andthousands of them.
I went twice.
The second time there were notas many.
I'm hoping it was just thetiming and not the climate
change or anything.
But yeah, animals also are awonderful memory for me, besides
people.
(18:21):
How about Canada?
Margie Goldsmith (18:23):
Well, I was in New Brunswick at the Acadian
Festival.
In Moncton, which is the middleof nowhere, every house was
decorated with the Acadian flagand flowers and it was like our
4th of July and there was aparade on the street.
Lea Lane (18:38):
Yes, I've been to that they bang right, they bang
everything.
Yes, very noisy.
Margie Goldsmith (18:42):
They had a whole drum corps of women, not
to mention all the littleinstruments, toy instruments and
everybody's banging andlaughing and screaming and this
drum corps of 12 women comes by.
I jump into the middle of thefray with my harmonica and just
played with them for three hoursand it was so much fun.
(19:05):
It was no judgment, it was notare you playing well enough, it
was just becoming part of theirculture.
I think is what you and I bothdo.
We immerse ourselves into wherewe are.
Lea Lane (19:19):
Absolutely, and I think if you have a good
attitude and you smile at people, people will respond to you
wherever you are in the world,whether you speak the language
or not.
As you mentioned, there are acouple of words you can learn
and even if you don't learn anywords, if you smile at someone
and and are friendly, you'regoing to get that back and I
think it's so important today.
(19:39):
I'll finish with Finland.
Tell us.
Tell us about
Margie Goldsmith (19:43):
So I went to Lapland and I followed a Finnish
reindeer herder.
He put me in like a Michelinsuit of a nice, warm suit which
was made of everything reindeer.
They use every part of thereindeer which they keep in
herds.
So we drove out by snowmobileto his reindeer herd, which was
about five miles away in theforest.
(20:04):
Don't think that wasn't a cold,bumpy ride.
And they used to ski out tothese reindeer, which is why
their boots are all turned up atthe toes, because that's how
they put their ski boots ontothe skis.
So we get out there and he goesand suddenly here, clack, clack,
clack, all the reindeer come.
He feeds them, he makes a fireout of rubbing two sticks
(20:26):
together and cooks some reindeersausage.
And then we went back and hesaid I'm going to teach you how
to lasso a reindeer.
So he had a little woodenreindeer there and I had to
lasso it.
But the experience of beingwith him and learning how
important the reindeer are.
You never ask a Sami reindeerherder how big his herd is,
(20:46):
because that's like asking howmuch money you have in the bank.
Lea Lane (20:50):
Really I won't do that .
It's a no-no.
I did do that as well.
I remember we had reindeergames where we had races.
The thing I remember most aboutthat.
This was maybe 25 years ago.
It was the first time I'd seena cell phone.
The reindeer herder had a cellphone because I think they
(21:10):
started Nokia, I think startedin Finland and they used them
because of the distances andthat was the first time I ever
saw anyone using one.
So that's a memory.
Anyway, these are fabulousexperiences.
I know you have so many more,some of them in your book, but
just endless wonderful things.
We're both so lucky to havechosen travel writing as a way
(21:30):
of life.
Margie Goldsmith (21:31):
And we're not done, we're not done.
Lea Lane (21:32):
We're still doing it.
We've done it a long time.
We're slowing down but we'renot done.
Well, but we're keeping up,down and up.
The name of the podcast isPlaces I Remember.
So let's end on a travel memorywe shared.
A few years ago you wereplaying your first quote-unquote
international road trip,playing your blues harmonica in
Nova Scotia and New Brunswick,Canada.
I came along as kind of acompanion groupie and you were
(21:59):
playing gigs informally.
I caught the feeling of howgreat it is not only to be a
musician but to react withpeople.
It was wonderful.
It was so free and I just wasdelighted to see how you went up
there and this was at thebeginning of your musicianship,
years ago.
But you were up there playingand I just wanted to know
traveling and playing music, doyou have any experiences you
want to share and maybeafterwards share a little bit of
(22:20):
your music?
Margie Goldsmith (22:22):
Sure, I would love to.
I bring my harmonica every placeI go and I get in touch with
Hohner Music and I ask them tosend me 30 harmonicas.
And when I'm in third worldcountries like Mongolia or Papua
New Guinea or Myanmar, I ask tobe put in touch with the third
or fourth grade class, becausethat's when they're really
(22:42):
getting into it, and I give themeach a harmonica and I teach
them how to blow in and blow outand they're joyful.
And once when I was in with theBotwi Pygmies -- I'm having a
blank --somewhere in Uganda Ihad given the kids the
harmonicas the day before andthe next day we were leaving and
(23:03):
I had left my little cabin andI was walking towards the place
where you put your suitcase andI hear this harmonica in the
forest and I followed the littlepath and there's a little
eight-year-old boy who's gottena harmonica, big grin on his
face, playing, and it justtouched me.
It was so moving because youcan change a person's life by
bringing music into it.
(23:24):
And they have nothing.
You know they will play withstones the way we play with toys
as children.
Lea Lane (23:30):
Exactly.
This is a perfect time for youto perhaps play us something as
we end this convo.
Will you riff a bit?
bit s this has been travel, Ifigured I'd do a very
international song ¶¶.
(24:28):
So great.
Margie Goldsmith, travelculture writer, musician and
author of Becoming a Badass FromFearful to Fierce.
There's no doubt that youdeserve the title of your book.
Thank you so much.
Margie Goldsmith (24:42):
Thank you so much, Lea .
.
s.
And you are .
" Oh O , oh my goodness, thankyou.
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