November 13, 2025 • 22 mins
Urban wildfires are rewriting the rules of home insurance, and the details matter more than ever. We sit down with Brittany Martin, Personal Lines Team Leader for CRC’s Western Region, to break down the construction features, spacing standards, and modeling tools that are redefining eligibility in California, Colorado, and beyond. From tempered glass and enclosed eaves to ember-resistant vents and Class A roofs, we get specific about what moves the needle with underwriters, and what can push a well-appointed home straight into the E&S market.
The conversation turns practical as we map a smart sequence of upgrades during renovations, helping clients elevate materials before renewal crunch time and signal stronger risk control to carriers. We also explore how carriers combine third-party data, AI, and wildfire modeling to evaluate homes at a parcel level. That precision opens doors for case-by-case underwriting even in tough counties with shrinking capacity. Agents will leave with actionable takeaways that can shift accounts from declines to competitive terms.
Subscribe for more retail agent insights, share this episode with your team, and leave a review with the wildfire upgrade that delivered the biggest underwriting win for your clients.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amanda Knight (00:23):
Welcome to Placing You First, the podcast
that puts retail insuranceagents at the forefront of
today's biggest industry topics.
I'm Amanda Knight, and I'mjoined by my co-host, Scott
Gordon.
Scott Gordon (00:34):
Hello, everyone, and today we're gonna be talking
about something that'sreshaping personal lines across
the West and other parts of thecountry too.
Wildfire residentialconstruction requirements.
We've all seen the headlinesand the growing impact, but
there's a lot happening behindthe scenes that agents need to
know.
Amanda Knight (00:52):
Exactly.
And to help us unpack all ofthat, we've got Brittany Martin,
personal lines team leader forCRC's Western Region, and one of
our go-to specialists when itcomes to wildfire risk and home
construction trends.
Announcer (01:04):
This is the Placing You First Podcast from CRC
Group.
Amanda Knight (01:08):
This podcast features news and insights from
a vast knowledge base of morethan 5,500 associates who write
more than 30 billion in premiumannually.
Announcer (01:17):
Plus, we give you the latest information on what's
happening at CRC.
Scott Gordon (01:21):
This is the Placing You First Podcast.
Amanda Knight (01:24):
And now the hosts of the podcast, Amanda Knight
and Scott Gordon.
Brittany Martin (01:29):
Welcome, Brittany.
Thank you for having me.
Scott Gordon (01:31):
Let's start here, Brittany.
By now, everyone knows aboutdefensible space and Class A
roofs, but what isn't gettingtalked about enough when it
comes to wildfire-resistantconstruction?
Brittany Martin (01:41):
Well, what we're seeing a lot in the
industry right now is, ofcourse, like you just said,
defensible space is a big hottopic in California and
Colorado, especially.
There's a lot of science behindthose types of things causing
and contributing to wildfireswhen it comes to the dwellings.
But what we're not seeing asmuch of being discussed is
(02:05):
tempered glass, enclosed eaves,ember-resistant venting.
Those are requirements a lot inCalifornia, under the Chapter
7A guidelines, but it's not inevery area.
And I think that people areunder the understanding that in
California all codes are equal,they're all the same, and it's
(02:26):
all being required, but it'sactually not.
So if you're outside of one ofthese high wildfire areas, even
a short distance, those codesmay be completely different than
if you are.
So I think it's just reallyimportant for the insured and
retail agents to understand whois in those chapter 7A code
(02:46):
areas and who are outside and toeducate their insureds about
even if you aren't in thoseareas, still really smart to
probably be following a lot ofthose guidelines because it's
probably going to be going thatdirection regardless.
And why not protect yourself ifespecially if it's new
construction?
Please make sure you're justdoing everything you can.
(03:07):
I mean, we just saw at thePalisades, you know, how how
that fire can jump from home tohome so quickly.
That is one of the other thingsI guess we could talk about
that I'm seeing come up withdifferent carriers, is their
underwriting based onhome-to-home distance.
So that is a new thing afterPalisades that's entered the
(03:29):
chat is home-to-home distance.
And a lot of them are saying 24feet is kind of the ideal um
space, I guess, or minimalspace.
Not ideal, it's probably theminimum that they're gonna allow
between the two homes.
Amanda Knight (03:44):
Well, I mean, that sounds like an important
point.
I think in this day and age,it's very easy to assume,
especially in some of theseareas like California, that if
it's a new build, well, theymust be building it according to
fire code, you know, thesespecific wildfire construction
codes.
But that's not necessarily it'snot an automatic thing, right?
Especially if you're a littleways outside of one of those hot
(04:06):
spots.
Um, and you mentioned they'renot just looking at the age of
the home anymore, right?
I mean, it's lots of otherthings.
Brittany Martin (04:13):
Yep.
They're not just looking at theage of the home.
And a lot of people areupgrading even, you know, if
they didn't meet thoserequirements, or a lot of areas,
counties are requiring them toupgrade if they're doing
renovations, additions, thingslike that as well.
But we're we're still seeinghomes in California and Colorado
on a regular basis that aredoing wood shake roofs, which
(04:34):
just seems you know, crazy.
But it but it's uh it'sallowed.
I mean, we're seeing newconstruction that that has
these.
I mean, a lot of them, granted,are fire-treated and and things
like that, but it just seemswith all of the other options,
like it it would be at thebottom of your list if you were
in a in a California location orColorado location of of any
(04:57):
kind, really.
Amanda Knight (04:58):
It makes sense to me.
Brittany Martin (05:00):
Yeah, and it can make a difference.
I mean, if you even if you'remeeting all other guidelines, I
mean, even one of those couldcan make you ineligible for an
admitted carrier and push youinto the ENS market.
Um, you know, we're we'reseeing a lot of that as well.
It could just be one, you know,they don't have enclosed eaves,
(05:20):
or they've got wood siding, orthey've got a wood deck, and
that that's enough to justdisqualify them and not make
them eligible for, you know, astandard carrier.
Amanda Knight (05:29):
I was gonna ask, are you sort of, especially
post-Palisades, seeing sort ofan influx of business into the
ENS side?
Because maybe you've done someretrofitting, but we've not done
everything yet.
And so, but now we've got to goto the ENS side.
Brittany Martin (05:46):
Absolutely.
I mean, the Palisades Fire wasa real turning point in our
industry.
It was already a difficultmarket.
Wildfire was already reallytransitioning.
Um, these high wildfire exposedareas were just really being
pushed um to the ENS space, alot driven by TIV, but also the
(06:06):
Palisades Fire just put a lot ofrisks that would not have been
required to be in ENS in ENS.
I mean, a lot of the areas likethe Palisades, we prior to that
fire, we did would not haveconsidered that a high wildfire
area.
Right.
Now, you know, LA County,especially, a lot of that is is
(06:27):
very um urban.
It's all very difficult toplace business now.
So, I mean, even whether it'slocation and a lot of those
homes have been there.
Some of them have been upgradedto, you know, be fire resistant
or to have those upgrades, youknow, where they're considered
to be meeting those chapter 7Acodes, the ember resisting
(06:49):
vending, but they still aren'tqualifying for standard markets.
And and a lot of that's justdriven by location, and a lot of
the standard markets areleaving the California market
space.
Amanda Knight (07:00):
I get it.
I think that fire really drovehome the fact that, like, we
think of wildfire, you think ofwild areas, right?
Not densely populated, butthose fires really illustrated
that there is a risk in highlypopulated urban areas.
And so that's a whole differentballgame.
Scott Gordon (07:16):
And when you talk about the space between the
houses, I mean, if you knowfires jump from tree to tree, it
seems like it would be prettyeasy for the fire to jump from
house to house, especially inthose tight urban areas.
I never thought about that, butthat's a that's a big checkbox.
Brittany Martin (07:30):
It really did change the game.
I mean, the amount ofsubmissions that we see in
California has gone upsignificantly.
And even then in turn, thataffects even our ENS space.
Now they're being flooded withnew submissions, and now they're
running into aggregationissues, and their guidelines are
(07:52):
changing, and and some of thesepoints are coming becoming more
and more important becausethey're now looking at these
risks a little different andgoing, okay, now we only want
these ones that do have theenclosed eaves and the ember
resistant vending and the classA roofs and the tempered glass.
And they can do that becausethey have so many more risks,
(08:15):
they're having to protect theirbook as well.
And, you know, also onlychoosing certain risks to
ensure, and they they can dothat, which is really um making
it hard for the consumer.
Scott Gordon (08:28):
And I imagine, you know, when you think of it as
just one house burning, well,maybe they can keep it from, but
when the whole neighborhood ison fire, I don't think that
there's going to be enoughhoses.
Amanda Knight (08:36):
Yes, right.
Scott Gordon (08:37):
Anyway.
Um now we've touched on this,we touched on construction a lot
here.
You talk about the roofs andeverything, but let's talk more
about the construction side.
Um what are people are buildingthese homes sometimes
unintentionally, uh creatingmore issues for insurability,
like the roofs.
Uh what other kind ofconstruction issues are creating
(08:59):
these issues?
Brittany Martin (09:00):
It's a new thing, because I mean, if you
watched any of the footage, I Imean it's not new.
I'm sure they all knew aboutit.
We just didn't, we just didn'tunderwrite to that degree at
that point.
It wasn't something that hadbeen like you said, normally
you're thinking these wildlandareas and the houses are further
apart and they're stilljumping.
I mean, these embers can travela very large distance, but I
(09:23):
mean you can literally in thePalisades fire watch it go from
one house to the next to thenext.
And a lot of these have likereally dense areas, you know,
the houses are really closetogether.
Once you see it, you can'treally unsee it.
It's like, oh, these houses areclose.
They really are.
Amanda Knight (09:42):
When that feels like an opportunity for agents,
right?
Because they have the abilityto sort of position themselves
as a trusted advisor byconnecting clients with those
contractors that are familiarwith that wildland urban
interface best practicesituation.
Um I think that just shows, andI think you would agree,
Brittany, it shows value, buildscredibility, not just with uh
(10:05):
homeowners, but also withunderwriters, right?
That you're that engaged, thatyou've kind of got your ear to
the ground and know what thosethings are that insureds need to
be doing to protect theirhomes.
Brittany Martin (10:15):
Well, I think that we just still see people
building for aesthetics andrather than for functionality
for wildfire defense, mostimportantly.
Sure.
Um I think that we're stillseeing people use wood products,
um, combustible products, youknow, for the appearance.
Um, I think that we also see itin the vegetation that they're
(10:39):
using.
You know, everybody loves thoseclimbing vines and the Italian
cypress, but those are likecandlesticks.
So I think it's really, reallyimportant if you're going to
build a new home or even ifyou're purchasing a new home to
get a well-versed contractorthat kind of is um educated in
(11:03):
wildland urban interface.
That's mouthful.
Um, and and to make sure thatthey know what is going to
prevent your home from burning.
They know what might even slowor protect your home, or the
things that they can kind ofadvise you on how to mitigate
(11:23):
that wildfire exposure.
So, again, one of the mainones, the ember resistant
vending is huge.
Um, they actually say thatenclosed eaves and the
ember-resisting venting is likelessens your likelihood of your
house catching fire by 40%, iswhat we've been told by some of
our carriers.
It's pretty significant.
(11:44):
Um, we have carriers that havedone the research.
I trust and listen to.
I mean, you know, it makessense why they're requiring it,
that it makes sense why thecounties are, you know, adopting
these requirements.
Um, but the biggest thing is wehave to make sure that the
insureds are educated as well asthe contractors, because you
(12:09):
know, it only takes one housethat doesn't have it or that's
you know gonna catch fire topotentially, you know, catch
others on fire.
Amanda Knight (12:17):
Something else we hear from agents is confusion
around, you know, what isactually gonna move the needle
for carriers.
So can you shed any light onmaybe what's really making a
difference when it comes tothose yes or no underwriting
decisions that would help ourretail partners?
Brittany Martin (12:34):
Well, I feel like right now we have a variety
of carriers doing differentthings.
I mean, a lot of them arerelying on third-party data.
Um, but a lot of them arestarting to rely on more than
just one source.
We found that maybe just onesource isn't enough.
(12:56):
And we have some carriers thatare actually going to a more
science-based um approach.
They're using um AI, they'reusing wildfire modeling.
So they're actually, in certaincases, entering your home, your
vegetation around yourproperty, and they're modeling
(13:18):
what would happen in the eventof a wildfire.
It's really, reallyinteresting.
It's really neat if you've everseen one.
It's not overly common, butwe're starting to see it, which
allows them to go back to kindof true underwriting where
they're looking at a risk on acase-by-case basis, on an
individual basis, rather thanjust we don't write in this
(13:39):
code, we don't, we don't writein this in LA County.
Um, it's it's allowing them toget really granular and very
specific on each risk.
And so then they're able to putAI on top of it.
And if they take this tree outor, you know, take this wood
fence out, look now how yourhome fares in the event of a
(13:59):
wildfire.
Yeah, we have um, and so it'sthat has been game changing as
far as we're concerned, becauseit allows us to help some of
these insureds that normallymaybe we couldn't help because
everybody's going, whoa, this isscary.
And and you've got someconcerns here.
And you know, it doesn't, it'snot an all or nothing, but it's
(14:21):
like, look at how much thischanges, look how your exposure
changes if we remove this umfrom the dwelling, whether it's
you know, wood siding or woodaccents, or like I said, a wood
deck or anything.
So really, I don't know thatthere's one thing or another
that's moving the needle, but Ithink we're gonna see some of
(14:42):
this new technology, hopefully,really be what maybe moves the
needle.
Obviously, mitigation, any andeverything that you can do to
mitigate your property on, youknow, just up front is always
helpful.
You know, using vegetationthat's more fire resistant,
obviously they're out there.
(15:03):
You don't you don't want a bareyard, you know, that's not
aesthetically pleasing, butthere are a lot of different
options that are, you know, umalternatives to the palm trees
and the Italian cypress that arejust known to be a hazard.
Um, so I think it's just aboutbeing, again, really educated
about what makes sense, whatwhat withstands wildfire, where
(15:26):
you should be placing it, andjust being strategic.
Obviously, we see people, youknow, doing interior sprinklers.
Sometimes those are required.
Those are very helpful inplacing business.
Um, the exterior sprinklersystems are very helpful in
placing business, but also justknowing the location and what
(15:48):
you can be doing on your owndwelling, I think is just in
your own property, is is veryimportant and helpful.
Scott Gordon (15:55):
And it sounds like with the eye in the sky
literally watching you, it's alittle less about what you say
you're doing, yeah, than what'sactually being observed.
Brittany Martin (16:06):
Right.
Yep.
It it absolutely is.
It it really is theretechnology has advanced so much
that it is really able to seeeverything.
And so, regardless of what youthink you've done, yeah, it's
gonna confirm it and it's gonnashow you exactly how you're
exposed and and where.
(16:26):
May not be your whole home, itmay just be one corner, but but
then that's so helpful in inmaking some really easy changes.
Amanda Knight (16:35):
Well, let's wrap up with some easy takeaways.
What is one thing, Brittany,that retail agents should do
right now to help clients inwildfire prone areas?
Just one thing.
Brittany Martin (16:46):
Yeah, I think like we discussed, I think
education is the most important.
Just making sure that theyunderstand why these are such
important requirements, whythey're so important.
Um, obviously, like wediscussed, even being a trusted
advisor on what they should andshouldn't be doing, connecting
(17:08):
them with contractors that knowum those mitigation processes as
well are just so important andand bring so much value to the
insured.
Scott Gordon (17:17):
Yeah, this is uh it's a great time to partner
with clients during renovations,not just new builds.
Um if someone's replacing aroof or windows, that's a
perfect opportunity to upgradeto compliant materials, you
know, before renewal season setsin.
Brittany Martin (17:32):
Yes, being proactive is always always very
helpful.
Proactive is the name of thegame.
Amanda Knight (17:38):
Great advice.
Scott Gordon (17:39):
Yeah, I mean, just knowing about those eaves,
throwing that that stat at you,40%, that I had no idea.
So that's a huge deal.
Brittany Martin (17:46):
Yeah.
I I didn't either, honestly,until it was it was shared with
us what the actual percentageand you know, it because it's
not all carriers, you know, butcertain carriers are are they
are it's not eligible if itdoesn't meet these requirements.
And, you know, when theyfinally explained it, it it
makes perfect sense why they'redoing it.
They're protecting their book,they're protecting themselves,
(18:10):
and and they could offer a lowerrate on those properties
because truly they were theywere better protected than
others without.
Amanda Knight (18:19):
Well, and I just love that we're using technology
in a way that actually is sohelpful, right?
It's not just no, I can'tinsure you.
I it's well, I can't insure youfor this, and but here's what
you could do.
Here's where the problem is,here's how you could fix it,
right?
Instead of just no, but no, butright?
(18:40):
We can we can there's no withno explanation.
Brittany Martin (18:43):
Yeah, everybody hates that.
Yeah, I mean, because then youjust feel like you're just being
declined and you have no ideawhy.
I mean, why not give them theinformation and the tools that
they need to make themselveseligible for coverage?
More appealing risk.
Exactly.
I love it.
Scott Gordon (18:59):
Yeah, literally, like it's no, but here's a
wrench.
Uh, get started on some repairsor a few of some modifications.
Amanda Knight (19:06):
Yeah.
Scott Gordon (19:07):
Well, this has been great.
I I I I didn't know half ofthis stuff.
This is pretty interesting.
I mean, we're not in the hotspot in terms of the West Coast
wildfires, but it's always goodto know.
Um, so we've we've covered thecomplicated part, Brittany.
Now uh we're gonna have alittle a little fun.
Uh, this is what Amanda and Ilike to call rapid fire.
(19:28):
It's just whatever comes offthe top of your head.
Amanda Knight (19:31):
All right, are you ready?
Yep.
First, first one, Brittany.
If you were not an insurance,what career would you choose?
Brittany Martin (19:40):
Ooh, that's a good question.
Honestly, I think that I wouldprobably like a not-for-profit
for like animals or or kids.
That that would be my more of apassion than a passion project.
Yeah, absolutely.
Amanda Knight (19:57):
I like it.
Scott Gordon (19:58):
Okay, um, our next question.
Well, first of all, do you likecoffee, Brian?
Brittany Martin (20:02):
Any morning, it's a white chocolate Americano
with cream.
Scott Gordon (20:05):
Uh well, then this next question is just for you.
What's your go-to coffee orderon a Monday morning?
Brittany Martin (20:11):
Any morning, it's a white chocolate Americano
with cream.
Amanda Knight (20:14):
That sounds delicious.
Brittany Martin (20:16):
Yeah.
Amanda Knight (20:16):
She knows her order, Scott.
She knows what she wants.
Brittany Martin (20:18):
Yep.
Amanda Knight (20:19):
All right, last one.
What's your favorite place toescape to when you really need
to unplug?
What's your favorite spot?
Brittany Martin (20:29):
I we have a we have a place on the Ponderay
River in North Idaho.
By far my favorite place to goand relax.
Amanda Knight (20:39):
I have heard Idaho is surprisingly beautiful.
No one thinks about Idaho, butIdaho is amazing.
Brittany Martin (20:45):
It's it is the most beautiful place.
If you can't, I mean, everybodywho comes here is says this the
same thing.
I was actually in a meeting onetime and I was sitting out on
my dock and had my computer openand they were like, is that a
background?
And I was like, no.
And and so if you ever come toIdaho, let me know.
Definitely.
(21:06):
Yeah.
And then we can we can come inthe summer though.
The summer's I've heard, yeah.
Amanda Knight (21:11):
Come in the summer.
Winter is rough.
I've heard winter's a littlemuch in Idaho.
Brittany Martin (21:16):
It can be, you know, I live, so I'm technically
in Washington, but we're righton the border.
So it's uh, you know, inSpokane.
And um, yeah, it's the wintersare not my favorite.
I'm used to them, but I mean,like summer, summer is by far
the best time of year aroundhere.
We have a lot of water, it's sobeautiful.
(21:37):
Um, you know, just lots to do.
There's lots to do in thewinter too.
I just not a fan of the gold asmuch as I get older.
Amanda Knight (21:44):
I get that.
Well, Brittany, thanks so muchfor joining us and sharing your
insights with us today.
We appreciate it.
You back?
Brittany Martin (21:50):
Thank you for having me.
Scott Gordon (21:51):
And for our listeners, if you're helping
clients navigate wildfireexposures, or if you need
guidance on complex placements,reach out to your CRC specialty
team.
They're here to help you stayahead of the marker and keep
your clients protected.
Amanda Knight (22:05):
Thanks for tuning in to Placing You First.
Don't forget to subscribe andshare this episode with your
team.
We'll see you next time.
Welcome to Placing You First, the podcast
that puts retail insuranceagents at the forefront of
today's biggest industry topics.
I'm Amanda Knight, and I'mjoined by my co-host, Scott
Gordon.
Scott Gordon (00:34):
Hello, everyone, and today we're gonna be talking
about something that'sreshaping personal lines across
the West and other parts of thecountry too.
Wildfire residentialconstruction requirements.
We've all seen the headlinesand the growing impact, but
there's a lot happening behindthe scenes that agents need to
know.
Amanda Knight (00:52):
Exactly.
And to help us unpack all ofthat, we've got Brittany Martin,
personal lines team leader forCRC's Western Region, and one of
our go-to specialists when itcomes to wildfire risk and home
construction trends.
Announcer (01:04):
This is the Placing You First Podcast from CRC
Group.
Amanda Knight (01:08):
This podcast features news and insights from
a vast knowledge base of morethan 5,500 associates who write
more than 30 billion in premiumannually.
Announcer (01:17):
Plus, we give you the latest information on what's
happening at CRC.
Scott Gordon (01:21):
This is the Placing You First Podcast.
Amanda Knight (01:24):
And now the hosts of the podcast, Amanda Knight
and Scott Gordon.
Brittany Martin (01:29):
Welcome, Brittany.
Thank you for having me.
Scott Gordon (01:31):
Let's start here, Brittany.
By now, everyone knows aboutdefensible space and Class A
roofs, but what isn't gettingtalked about enough when it
comes to wildfire-resistantconstruction?
Brittany Martin (01:41):
Well, what we're seeing a lot in the
industry right now is, ofcourse, like you just said,
defensible space is a big hottopic in California and
Colorado, especially.
There's a lot of science behindthose types of things causing
and contributing to wildfireswhen it comes to the dwellings.
But what we're not seeing asmuch of being discussed is
(02:05):
tempered glass, enclosed eaves,ember-resistant venting.
Those are requirements a lot inCalifornia, under the Chapter
7A guidelines, but it's not inevery area.
And I think that people areunder the understanding that in
California all codes are equal,they're all the same, and it's
(02:26):
all being required, but it'sactually not.
So if you're outside of one ofthese high wildfire areas, even
a short distance, those codesmay be completely different than
if you are.
So I think it's just reallyimportant for the insured and
retail agents to understand whois in those chapter 7A code
(02:46):
areas and who are outside and toeducate their insureds about
even if you aren't in thoseareas, still really smart to
probably be following a lot ofthose guidelines because it's
probably going to be going thatdirection regardless.
And why not protect yourself ifespecially if it's new
construction?
Please make sure you're justdoing everything you can.
(03:07):
I mean, we just saw at thePalisades, you know, how how
that fire can jump from home tohome so quickly.
That is one of the other thingsI guess we could talk about
that I'm seeing come up withdifferent carriers, is their
underwriting based onhome-to-home distance.
So that is a new thing afterPalisades that's entered the
(03:29):
chat is home-to-home distance.
And a lot of them are saying 24feet is kind of the ideal um
space, I guess, or minimalspace.
Not ideal, it's probably theminimum that they're gonna allow
between the two homes.
Amanda Knight (03:44):
Well, I mean, that sounds like an important
point.
I think in this day and age,it's very easy to assume,
especially in some of theseareas like California, that if
it's a new build, well, theymust be building it according to
fire code, you know, thesespecific wildfire construction
codes.
But that's not necessarily it'snot an automatic thing, right?
Especially if you're a littleways outside of one of those hot
(04:06):
spots.
Um, and you mentioned they'renot just looking at the age of
the home anymore, right?
I mean, it's lots of otherthings.
Brittany Martin (04:13):
Yep.
They're not just looking at theage of the home.
And a lot of people areupgrading even, you know, if
they didn't meet thoserequirements, or a lot of areas,
counties are requiring them toupgrade if they're doing
renovations, additions, thingslike that as well.
But we're we're still seeinghomes in California and Colorado
on a regular basis that aredoing wood shake roofs, which
(04:34):
just seems you know, crazy.
But it but it's uh it'sallowed.
I mean, we're seeing newconstruction that that has
these.
I mean, a lot of them, granted,are fire-treated and and things
like that, but it just seemswith all of the other options,
like it it would be at thebottom of your list if you were
in a in a California location orColorado location of of any
(04:57):
kind, really.
Amanda Knight (04:58):
It makes sense to me.
Brittany Martin (05:00):
Yeah, and it can make a difference.
I mean, if you even if you'remeeting all other guidelines, I
mean, even one of those couldcan make you ineligible for an
admitted carrier and push youinto the ENS market.
Um, you know, we're we'reseeing a lot of that as well.
It could just be one, you know,they don't have enclosed eaves,
(05:20):
or they've got wood siding, orthey've got a wood deck, and
that that's enough to justdisqualify them and not make
them eligible for, you know, astandard carrier.
Amanda Knight (05:29):
I was gonna ask, are you sort of, especially
post-Palisades, seeing sort ofan influx of business into the
ENS side?
Because maybe you've done someretrofitting, but we've not done
everything yet.
And so, but now we've got to goto the ENS side.
Brittany Martin (05:46):
Absolutely.
I mean, the Palisades Fire wasa real turning point in our
industry.
It was already a difficultmarket.
Wildfire was already reallytransitioning.
Um, these high wildfire exposedareas were just really being
pushed um to the ENS space, alot driven by TIV, but also the
(06:06):
Palisades Fire just put a lot ofrisks that would not have been
required to be in ENS in ENS.
I mean, a lot of the areas likethe Palisades, we prior to that
fire, we did would not haveconsidered that a high wildfire
area.
Right.
Now, you know, LA County,especially, a lot of that is is
(06:27):
very um urban.
It's all very difficult toplace business now.
So, I mean, even whether it'slocation and a lot of those
homes have been there.
Some of them have been upgradedto, you know, be fire resistant
or to have those upgrades, youknow, where they're considered
to be meeting those chapter 7Acodes, the ember resisting
(06:49):
vending, but they still aren'tqualifying for standard markets.
And and a lot of that's justdriven by location, and a lot of
the standard markets areleaving the California market
space.
Amanda Knight (07:00):
I get it.
I think that fire really drovehome the fact that, like, we
think of wildfire, you think ofwild areas, right?
Not densely populated, butthose fires really illustrated
that there is a risk in highlypopulated urban areas.
And so that's a whole differentballgame.
Scott Gordon (07:16):
And when you talk about the space between the
houses, I mean, if you knowfires jump from tree to tree, it
seems like it would be prettyeasy for the fire to jump from
house to house, especially inthose tight urban areas.
I never thought about that, butthat's a that's a big checkbox.
Brittany Martin (07:30):
It really did change the game.
I mean, the amount ofsubmissions that we see in
California has gone upsignificantly.
And even then in turn, thataffects even our ENS space.
Now they're being flooded withnew submissions, and now they're
running into aggregationissues, and their guidelines are
(07:52):
changing, and and some of thesepoints are coming becoming more
and more important becausethey're now looking at these
risks a little different andgoing, okay, now we only want
these ones that do have theenclosed eaves and the ember
resistant vending and the classA roofs and the tempered glass.
And they can do that becausethey have so many more risks,
(08:15):
they're having to protect theirbook as well.
And, you know, also onlychoosing certain risks to
ensure, and they they can dothat, which is really um making
it hard for the consumer.
Scott Gordon (08:28):
And I imagine, you know, when you think of it as
just one house burning, well,maybe they can keep it from, but
when the whole neighborhood ison fire, I don't think that
there's going to be enoughhoses.
Amanda Knight (08:36):
Yes, right.
Scott Gordon (08:37):
Anyway.
Um now we've touched on this,we touched on construction a lot
here.
You talk about the roofs andeverything, but let's talk more
about the construction side.
Um what are people are buildingthese homes sometimes
unintentionally, uh creatingmore issues for insurability,
like the roofs.
Uh what other kind ofconstruction issues are creating
(08:59):
these issues?
Brittany Martin (09:00):
It's a new thing, because I mean, if you
watched any of the footage, I Imean it's not new.
I'm sure they all knew aboutit.
We just didn't, we just didn'tunderwrite to that degree at
that point.
It wasn't something that hadbeen like you said, normally
you're thinking these wildlandareas and the houses are further
apart and they're stilljumping.
I mean, these embers can travela very large distance, but I
(09:23):
mean you can literally in thePalisades fire watch it go from
one house to the next to thenext.
And a lot of these have likereally dense areas, you know,
the houses are really closetogether.
Once you see it, you can'treally unsee it.
It's like, oh, these houses areclose.
They really are.
Amanda Knight (09:42):
When that feels like an opportunity for agents,
right?
Because they have the abilityto sort of position themselves
as a trusted advisor byconnecting clients with those
contractors that are familiarwith that wildland urban
interface best practicesituation.
Um I think that just shows, andI think you would agree,
Brittany, it shows value, buildscredibility, not just with uh
(10:05):
homeowners, but also withunderwriters, right?
That you're that engaged, thatyou've kind of got your ear to
the ground and know what thosethings are that insureds need to
be doing to protect theirhomes.
Brittany Martin (10:15):
Well, I think that we just still see people
building for aesthetics andrather than for functionality
for wildfire defense, mostimportantly.
Sure.
Um I think that we're stillseeing people use wood products,
um, combustible products, youknow, for the appearance.
Um, I think that we also see itin the vegetation that they're
(10:39):
using.
You know, everybody loves thoseclimbing vines and the Italian
cypress, but those are likecandlesticks.
So I think it's really, reallyimportant if you're going to
build a new home or even ifyou're purchasing a new home to
get a well-versed contractorthat kind of is um educated in
(11:03):
wildland urban interface.
That's mouthful.
Um, and and to make sure thatthey know what is going to
prevent your home from burning.
They know what might even slowor protect your home, or the
things that they can kind ofadvise you on how to mitigate
(11:23):
that wildfire exposure.
So, again, one of the mainones, the ember resistant
vending is huge.
Um, they actually say thatenclosed eaves and the
ember-resisting venting is likelessens your likelihood of your
house catching fire by 40%, iswhat we've been told by some of
our carriers.
It's pretty significant.
(11:44):
Um, we have carriers that havedone the research.
I trust and listen to.
I mean, you know, it makessense why they're requiring it,
that it makes sense why thecounties are, you know, adopting
these requirements.
Um, but the biggest thing is wehave to make sure that the
insureds are educated as well asthe contractors, because you
(12:09):
know, it only takes one housethat doesn't have it or that's
you know gonna catch fire topotentially, you know, catch
others on fire.
Amanda Knight (12:17):
Something else we hear from agents is confusion
around, you know, what isactually gonna move the needle
for carriers.
So can you shed any light onmaybe what's really making a
difference when it comes tothose yes or no underwriting
decisions that would help ourretail partners?
Brittany Martin (12:34):
Well, I feel like right now we have a variety
of carriers doing differentthings.
I mean, a lot of them arerelying on third-party data.
Um, but a lot of them arestarting to rely on more than
just one source.
We found that maybe just onesource isn't enough.
(12:56):
And we have some carriers thatare actually going to a more
science-based um approach.
They're using um AI, they'reusing wildfire modeling.
So they're actually, in certaincases, entering your home, your
vegetation around yourproperty, and they're modeling
(13:18):
what would happen in the eventof a wildfire.
It's really, reallyinteresting.
It's really neat if you've everseen one.
It's not overly common, butwe're starting to see it, which
allows them to go back to kindof true underwriting where
they're looking at a risk on acase-by-case basis, on an
individual basis, rather thanjust we don't write in this
(13:39):
code, we don't, we don't writein this in LA County.
Um, it's it's allowing them toget really granular and very
specific on each risk.
And so then they're able to putAI on top of it.
And if they take this tree outor, you know, take this wood
fence out, look now how yourhome fares in the event of a
(13:59):
wildfire.
Yeah, we have um, and so it'sthat has been game changing as
far as we're concerned, becauseit allows us to help some of
these insureds that normallymaybe we couldn't help because
everybody's going, whoa, this isscary.
And and you've got someconcerns here.
And you know, it doesn't, it'snot an all or nothing, but it's
(14:21):
like, look at how much thischanges, look how your exposure
changes if we remove this umfrom the dwelling, whether it's
you know, wood siding or woodaccents, or like I said, a wood
deck or anything.
So really, I don't know thatthere's one thing or another
that's moving the needle, but Ithink we're gonna see some of
(14:42):
this new technology, hopefully,really be what maybe moves the
needle.
Obviously, mitigation, any andeverything that you can do to
mitigate your property on, youknow, just up front is always
helpful.
You know, using vegetationthat's more fire resistant,
obviously they're out there.
(15:03):
You don't you don't want a bareyard, you know, that's not
aesthetically pleasing, butthere are a lot of different
options that are, you know, umalternatives to the palm trees
and the Italian cypress that arejust known to be a hazard.
Um, so I think it's just aboutbeing, again, really educated
about what makes sense, whatwhat withstands wildfire, where
(15:26):
you should be placing it, andjust being strategic.
Obviously, we see people, youknow, doing interior sprinklers.
Sometimes those are required.
Those are very helpful inplacing business.
Um, the exterior sprinklersystems are very helpful in
placing business, but also justknowing the location and what
(15:48):
you can be doing on your owndwelling, I think is just in
your own property, is is veryimportant and helpful.
Scott Gordon (15:55):
And it sounds like with the eye in the sky
literally watching you, it's alittle less about what you say
you're doing, yeah, than what'sactually being observed.
Brittany Martin (16:06):
Right.
Yep.
It it absolutely is.
It it really is theretechnology has advanced so much
that it is really able to seeeverything.
And so, regardless of what youthink you've done, yeah, it's
gonna confirm it and it's gonnashow you exactly how you're
exposed and and where.
(16:26):
May not be your whole home, itmay just be one corner, but but
then that's so helpful in inmaking some really easy changes.
Amanda Knight (16:35):
Well, let's wrap up with some easy takeaways.
What is one thing, Brittany,that retail agents should do
right now to help clients inwildfire prone areas?
Just one thing.
Brittany Martin (16:46):
Yeah, I think like we discussed, I think
education is the most important.
Just making sure that theyunderstand why these are such
important requirements, whythey're so important.
Um, obviously, like wediscussed, even being a trusted
advisor on what they should andshouldn't be doing, connecting
(17:08):
them with contractors that knowum those mitigation processes as
well are just so important andand bring so much value to the
insured.
Scott Gordon (17:17):
Yeah, this is uh it's a great time to partner
with clients during renovations,not just new builds.
Um if someone's replacing aroof or windows, that's a
perfect opportunity to upgradeto compliant materials, you
know, before renewal season setsin.
Brittany Martin (17:32):
Yes, being proactive is always always very
helpful.
Proactive is the name of thegame.
Amanda Knight (17:38):
Great advice.
Scott Gordon (17:39):
Yeah, I mean, just knowing about those eaves,
throwing that that stat at you,40%, that I had no idea.
So that's a huge deal.
Brittany Martin (17:46):
Yeah.
I I didn't either, honestly,until it was it was shared with
us what the actual percentageand you know, it because it's
not all carriers, you know, butcertain carriers are are they
are it's not eligible if itdoesn't meet these requirements.
And, you know, when theyfinally explained it, it it
makes perfect sense why they'redoing it.
They're protecting their book,they're protecting themselves,
(18:10):
and and they could offer a lowerrate on those properties
because truly they were theywere better protected than
others without.
Amanda Knight (18:19):
Well, and I just love that we're using technology
in a way that actually is sohelpful, right?
It's not just no, I can'tinsure you.
I it's well, I can't insure youfor this, and but here's what
you could do.
Here's where the problem is,here's how you could fix it,
right?
Instead of just no, but no, butright?
(18:40):
We can we can there's no withno explanation.
Brittany Martin (18:43):
Yeah, everybody hates that.
Yeah, I mean, because then youjust feel like you're just being
declined and you have no ideawhy.
I mean, why not give them theinformation and the tools that
they need to make themselveseligible for coverage?
More appealing risk.
Exactly.
I love it.
Scott Gordon (18:59):
Yeah, literally, like it's no, but here's a
wrench.
Uh, get started on some repairsor a few of some modifications.
Amanda Knight (19:06):
Yeah.
Scott Gordon (19:07):
Well, this has been great.
I I I I didn't know half ofthis stuff.
This is pretty interesting.
I mean, we're not in the hotspot in terms of the West Coast
wildfires, but it's always goodto know.
Um, so we've we've covered thecomplicated part, Brittany.
Now uh we're gonna have alittle a little fun.
Uh, this is what Amanda and Ilike to call rapid fire.
(19:28):
It's just whatever comes offthe top of your head.
Amanda Knight (19:31):
All right, are you ready?
Yep.
First, first one, Brittany.
If you were not an insurance,what career would you choose?
Brittany Martin (19:40):
Ooh, that's a good question.
Honestly, I think that I wouldprobably like a not-for-profit
for like animals or or kids.
That that would be my more of apassion than a passion project.
Yeah, absolutely.
Amanda Knight (19:57):
I like it.
Scott Gordon (19:58):
Okay, um, our next question.
Well, first of all, do you likecoffee, Brian?
Brittany Martin (20:02):
Any morning, it's a white chocolate Americano
with cream.
Scott Gordon (20:05):
Uh well, then this next question is just for you.
What's your go-to coffee orderon a Monday morning?
Brittany Martin (20:11):
Any morning, it's a white chocolate Americano
with cream.
Amanda Knight (20:14):
That sounds delicious.
Brittany Martin (20:16):
Yeah.
Amanda Knight (20:16):
She knows her order, Scott.
She knows what she wants.
Brittany Martin (20:18):
Yep.
Amanda Knight (20:19):
All right, last one.
What's your favorite place toescape to when you really need
to unplug?
What's your favorite spot?
Brittany Martin (20:29):
I we have a we have a place on the Ponderay
River in North Idaho.
By far my favorite place to goand relax.
Amanda Knight (20:39):
I have heard Idaho is surprisingly beautiful.
No one thinks about Idaho, butIdaho is amazing.
Brittany Martin (20:45):
It's it is the most beautiful place.
If you can't, I mean, everybodywho comes here is says this the
same thing.
I was actually in a meeting onetime and I was sitting out on
my dock and had my computer openand they were like, is that a
background?
And I was like, no.
And and so if you ever come toIdaho, let me know.
Definitely.
(21:06):
Yeah.
And then we can we can come inthe summer though.
The summer's I've heard, yeah.
Amanda Knight (21:11):
Come in the summer.
Winter is rough.
I've heard winter's a littlemuch in Idaho.
Brittany Martin (21:16):
It can be, you know, I live, so I'm technically
in Washington, but we're righton the border.
So it's uh, you know, inSpokane.
And um, yeah, it's the wintersare not my favorite.
I'm used to them, but I mean,like summer, summer is by far
the best time of year aroundhere.
We have a lot of water, it's sobeautiful.
(21:37):
Um, you know, just lots to do.
There's lots to do in thewinter too.
I just not a fan of the gold asmuch as I get older.
Amanda Knight (21:44):
I get that.
Well, Brittany, thanks so muchfor joining us and sharing your
insights with us today.
We appreciate it.
You back?
Brittany Martin (21:50):
Thank you for having me.
Scott Gordon (21:51):
And for our listeners, if you're helping
clients navigate wildfireexposures, or if you need
guidance on complex placements,reach out to your CRC specialty
team.
They're here to help you stayahead of the marker and keep
your clients protected.
Amanda Knight (22:05):
Thanks for tuning in to Placing You First.
Don't forget to subscribe andshare this episode with your
team.
We'll see you next time.
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