October 3, 2024 • 14 mins
Learn how to master submissions for small and midsize property placements with insights from Destinie Kindle a seasoned Underwriting Team Leader with CRC Group's Fort Worth Texas office. Discover how precise and detailed property submissions can be a game-changer in securing optimal insurance coverage. Destinie shares her specialist advice on enhancing your submission process, including the crucial details often overlooked.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott Gordon (00:00):
The E&S property market is stabilizing in 2024.
However, when it comes to smalland middle market business,
leveraging submission bestpractices is still important if
you want to secure optimalproperty coverage for your
clients.
Today, we're joined in thestudio by Destiny Kendall, a
team leader with our Fort WorthTexas office.
(00:21):
We're going to talk with herabout how to streamline your
property placements and guardagainst potential errors and
omissions.
Amanda Knight (00:28):
This is the Placing you First podcast from
CRC Group.
Scott Gordon (00:32):
This podcast features news and insights from
a vast knowledge base of over5,100 associates who write more
than $35 billion in premiumannually.
Amanda Knight (00:41):
Plus, we give you the latest information on
what's happening at CRC.
This, this, this is the Placingyou First podcast, and now the
hosts of the podcast, amandaKnight and Scott Gordon.
Scott Gordon (00:53):
Welcome to the podcast Destiny.
Amanda Knight (00:55):
Thanks for having me.
We're glad she's a first timepodcast guest, so we're glad to
have Destiny with us.
So let's just jump in Destiny.
You know I feel like it mayseem kind of obvious to say, you
know to our retail agents.
You know it's really importantfor your property submission to
be complete and accurate.
But you know I get busy.
(01:16):
I assume our retail partnersget busy.
Sometimes things fall throughthe cracks.
I understand there are a lot ofpieces to these, or there can
be, so maybe submissionconsistency isn't always what we
would hope it would be.
So talk to us a little bitabout why submitting complete
and accurate applications iscrucial in the E&S market and
(01:38):
how inaccuracies or a lack ofinformation can impact both the
agent and the insured.
Destinie Kindle (01:46):
Accurate applications, to quote Bob, are
very important so that we canprovide your insured with the
best coverage as possible forthe building we're looking to
cover.
Signed applications that matchwhat we are binding are even
more crucial as there areopportunities for potential E&O
claims if they do not match, forexample, the insured signing an
application an agent completedthat states they have special
(02:07):
cause of loss and in reality wewere only able to give them
basic due to the lack of updateslisted on the application.
In the event of the loss, theinsured could be under the
impression that they have abroader coverage than they
really have, opening the agentand the broker up for a
potential E&O claim.
Same can be said about thedeductibles and having a higher
deductible than the applicationthe insured signed at binding.
Scott Gordon (02:30):
What best practices should agents follow
to reduce errors and omissionsand, you know, improve their
overall submission process inthe current market landscape?
Destinie Kindle (02:39):
Agents should always include accord
applications that reflectaccurate information about each
building, such as the squarefootage, the year built, the
construction type, any buildingupdates that allow a broker to
more accurately quote theproperty.
If a building is old with noupdates, you're likely going to
be given a basic actual cashvalue quote in return.
(02:59):
But maybe the building actuallyhas been updated and we can
give the insured special andreplacement cost.
Once a building or the latestupdates start to get about 25
years old, carriers start tolessen the coverage of loss and
valuation available.
Construction type is also avery important factor when
(03:19):
filling out the accord, as thatdrives most of the rate Agents.
Knowing the difference in thetypes of constructions and how
to distinguish is very helpful.
Sometimes we are told abuilding is joisted masonry and
the inspection reflects frame,or that is masonry
non-combustible and it isjoisted masonry.
When this comes up, we have toendorse the policy and go back
(03:41):
to the insured and ask for moremoney.
No one likes to have to do that.
My philosophy on buildingconstructions is that if we are
insured right on the side ofcaution, it is easier to give
the insured back more moneybecause the construction type
was better than expected thanhave to ask them for more
because it was worse.
Amanda Knight (03:59):
I can understand that I can get behind that.
Who wants to ask anyone formore money?
Destinie Kindle (04:10):
Agents should pay particular attention to
things like wiring on olderbuildings to confirm that they
do not have electricalcomponents that have active
recalls on them, such as FederalPacific, for example.
There is nothing worse thanbinding a policy, getting the
inspection back and the wiringis something that is prohibited
with the carrier.
Now the insured is faced withdirect notice of cancellation
and 30 to 45 days to correct theelectrical issues, which could
(04:30):
result in a few thousands ofdollars just to keep their
policy in force.
Remarketing the policy israrely an option because most
carriers prohibit the same typesof electrical components.
Electrical components I oftenshare an article about Federal
Pacific breaker boxes with myagent to share with her, and
sure it often lessens themgetting upset and them
(04:52):
understanding the actual why itis not a good thing to have
these kind of thing.
If writing a schedule ofbuildings typically five or more
an SOV or schedule of values ismore helpful for us as brokers,
but they must include crucialdetails like address, occupancy,
building type, constructiontype, updates the most important
stuff that are on an accord 140and used for rating the
(05:14):
building, including lost runs.
With your complete applicationsfor your new business
submission will always help getyour submission to the top of a
broker's stack of submissions.
If there have been large losses, an explanation of those losses
and anything done to preventthem from reoccurring also helps
us present this risk to acarrier for consideration.
Amanda Knight (05:35):
I guess one question I would have.
You know, you've given us a lotof information that agents need
to know.
Right, these are things thatneed to be in your submission.
Do we find that this is stuffthey know needs to be in there
and they, you know, just fallthrough the cracks?
Oh, I missed that.
Or do we find that there areagents out there that don't yet
(05:57):
understand everything that needsto be in there?
Destinie Kindle (05:59):
I think it's a little bit of both.
Sometimes it can be agents thatare new and don't realize the
importance of these details andthey don't take the time to ask
for updates on buildings ifthere's sprinklers, things like
that that would help us getbetter coverage, and they're
just not asking.
And me personally, I willalways go back and say, well,
you know, I need this and thisand I can give you special.
(06:20):
I'm not the type of broker thatjust throws it out the door
with basic ACV.
I want to help you getsomething better.
So I go back and I ask forupdates and nine times out of 10
, they have been updated.
Nobody asked and they justdidn't put it on there.
Amanda Knight (06:34):
Well, and we talked about some of the details
in here that you want to see,you know construction type,
electrical panels.
Does it have sprinklers?
Do you find that there arespecific things, even outside of
these, that they tend to leaveoff or forget about as being
important?
Destinie Kindle (06:52):
Most commonly the sprinkler information is
left off an alarm.
If they have an alarm.
If you're asking for BPP on abuilding and you don't have an
alarm, we can't warrant theft onthat building or BPP.
And so if we know that there'sa sprinkler, that's going to get
you a large credit and if weknow there's an alarm that's
going to get you theft coverage,and to me those items are the
(07:12):
most left off of the application.
Other than that, they'll giveyou your bill, square footage
and everything.
Construction type can often bewrong, but we on my team
generally Google every building.
We're going to write and lookat it and see if we agree with
your construction type and if wedon't, we'll second guess it
(07:36):
with you and then sometimes weagree on.
Well, let's do it as JM andmaybe it's vacenary
non-combustible and we'll giveyou more money back.
Amanda Knight (07:40):
Right, absolutely .
Who doesn't want to get moneyback?
That seems like the smart wayto do this.
You know there are some things,obviously, that you said no
carrier is going to want tocover like specific electrical
panels In you said no carrier'sgoing to want to cover like
specific electrical panels.
In that case is the only optionbecause you can't remarket, it
is the only option that theyliterally have to redo their
electrical system.
Destinie Kindle (07:59):
Yes, I have one right now that I'm actually
working on that I just had togive them.
We're going to give them 60days on because it was so bad.
But they had A federal Pacificpanel box and B fuses and this
building had been written in thestandard market for years and
years and my only assumption isthat they don't do inspections
in the standard market.
So sometimes, when it's beenwritten in standard market all
(08:20):
these years, these things arenever found until it doesn't fit
the standard market and itcomes to ENS.
And now we do inspections andwe find the things and their
only option is to fix it and itcan be costly.
But most people when theyunderstand the risk of fire
hazard, then they fix it and thefact that they're not going to
be able to get any insuranceanywhere else because nobody is
(08:42):
going to write fuses on this one, for example.
But federal Pacific is a bigone.
Some don't like square D.
There's a.
There's a long list of theelectrical components that are
prohibited with most carriers.
Amanda Knight (08:54):
And that seems like knowledge, as a retail
agent, you want to have in handin advance.
Like through our writtenarticle companion piece, we
listed out some real specificthings that our retail agents
need to be on the lookout for.
But if I'm an agent and Ihappen to send you a submission
that doesn't have everything init that maybe it should, how
(09:15):
does that impact the process foryou?
Like, does it extend it by asignificant amount of time?
Do you have to hold it and notgo to the market yet because no
underwriter wants to touch itmultiple times?
What does it do for you guyswhen you get something that you
just can't work with yet?
Destinie Kindle (09:31):
It really slows the process down because we
can't quote a building if wedon't have all the information.
And if we do have theinformation but maybe there's
better information like updatesthen we're just touching it
twice because we're rating itonce with what you gave us, Then
we're going back and asking formore information and you're
touching it multiple times whereif we had just had it all up
front, you probably would havegotten it a lot faster.
(09:52):
And if it's a brokerage play,the brokerage markets don't like
you going back and forth, backand forth.
Well, here's some more updatesand here's some more updates.
They want it all and they wantit all up front.
So sometimes I won't submit itto a brokerage market until I
know all of that, because theydon't like that.
Amanda Knight (10:09):
Right.
I totally get that.
I can understand why that wouldbe a pain for everybody.
So in what ways cancollaborating with a
knowledgeable wholesalebrokerage company enhance our
retail agent's ability to securefavorable terms for their small
business and middle marketclients?
Destinie Kindle (10:28):
Here at CRC, we're looking to provide the
agent with the best termsavailable for the best price for
them to be able to sell it totheir insured and know what they
are selling as a good product.
If they have any questions,they can always count on our
brokers to give an explanationor help educate them on the
matter that they may not knowmuch about or understand.
Our organization is full ofvery knowledgeable brokers for
(10:52):
just about every line ofbusiness or risk you can think
of, and that is why CRC shouldalways be your first thought.
Amanda Knight (10:58):
And do you find that once they work with us
Destiny, they want to keepcoming back?
Scott Gordon (11:03):
I do.
Amanda Knight (11:04):
Shameless plug.
Scott Gordon (11:04):
I do Good, you can tell them, it is your destiny.
Destinie Kindle (11:09):
I've heard that a time or two.
Scott Gordon (11:11):
I've been waiting the whole podcast to say that
Sorry.
Amanda Knight (11:15):
Now, destiny, you haven't joined us before so you
may not know what's next, butit is a fun segment called Rapid
Fire.
We have just a couple of funquestions.
Since you're done with the hardpart, you just go with whatever
pops into your head first, andwe just did two for this episode
.
So question number one if youcould live in any historical
(11:37):
period, including current day, Iguess, which one would you
choose, and why?
Destinie Kindle (11:46):
I don't know.
I don't know, maybe the 50s orthe 60s would be a good time to
live.
I don't know.
I've never really thought aboutthat, to be honest with you.
That's what makes it a funquestion.
I mean, anything's got to bebetter than these days.
Amanda Knight (12:00):
Right, lots of things happening, okay.
And then your favorite recentbinge watch TV show.
Or, if you're not a TV personbecause we found not all of our
guests are Do you have afavorite movie or book that you
have gotten into lately?
Destinie Kindle (12:16):
Not a huge reader, but I do like to watch
murder mystery crime shows.
I just finished re-watchingMaking a Murder with my husband
because he has not seen it, butwe watched Dateline in 2020 and
any of those murder mysteries.
We watch those all the time.
Amanda Knight (12:33):
Me too.
I am a true crime junkie.
Junkie, I'll have to email youmy list of current Netflix
favorite crime documentaries foryou to dive into.
Scott Gordon (12:44):
Well, Destiny, thanks so much for being here.
Destinie Kindle (12:45):
It was fun.
Thanks for having me on.
Scott Gordon (12:48):
And if you're a listener, oh boy, we appreciate
you too.
We're so glad you joined us.
We know there's a millionpodcasts out there for you to
listen to and you chose us, andwe're super, super pumped about
that, Because providing currentinsights into the marketplace is
just one more way that CRCGroup is placing you first.
Don't forget to subscribe andshare this bad boy.
The E&S property market is stabilizing in 2024.
However, when it comes to smalland middle market business,
leveraging submission bestpractices is still important if
you want to secure optimalproperty coverage for your
clients.
Today, we're joined in thestudio by Destiny Kendall, a
team leader with our Fort WorthTexas office.
(00:21):
We're going to talk with herabout how to streamline your
property placements and guardagainst potential errors and
omissions.
Amanda Knight (00:28):
This is the Placing you First podcast from
CRC Group.
Scott Gordon (00:32):
This podcast features news and insights from
a vast knowledge base of over5,100 associates who write more
than $35 billion in premiumannually.
Amanda Knight (00:41):
Plus, we give you the latest information on
what's happening at CRC.
This, this, this is the Placingyou First podcast, and now the
hosts of the podcast, amandaKnight and Scott Gordon.
Scott Gordon (00:53):
Welcome to the podcast Destiny.
Amanda Knight (00:55):
Thanks for having me.
We're glad she's a first timepodcast guest, so we're glad to
have Destiny with us.
So let's just jump in Destiny.
You know I feel like it mayseem kind of obvious to say, you
know to our retail agents.
You know it's really importantfor your property submission to
be complete and accurate.
But you know I get busy.
(01:16):
I assume our retail partnersget busy.
Sometimes things fall throughthe cracks.
I understand there are a lot ofpieces to these, or there can
be, so maybe submissionconsistency isn't always what we
would hope it would be.
So talk to us a little bitabout why submitting complete
and accurate applications iscrucial in the E&S market and
(01:38):
how inaccuracies or a lack ofinformation can impact both the
agent and the insured.
Destinie Kindle (01:46):
Accurate applications, to quote Bob, are
very important so that we canprovide your insured with the
best coverage as possible forthe building we're looking to
cover.
Signed applications that matchwhat we are binding are even
more crucial as there areopportunities for potential E&O
claims if they do not match, forexample, the insured signing an
application an agent completedthat states they have special
(02:07):
cause of loss and in reality wewere only able to give them
basic due to the lack of updateslisted on the application.
In the event of the loss, theinsured could be under the
impression that they have abroader coverage than they
really have, opening the agentand the broker up for a
potential E&O claim.
Same can be said about thedeductibles and having a higher
deductible than the applicationthe insured signed at binding.
Scott Gordon (02:30):
What best practices should agents follow
to reduce errors and omissionsand, you know, improve their
overall submission process inthe current market landscape?
Destinie Kindle (02:39):
Agents should always include accord
applications that reflectaccurate information about each
building, such as the squarefootage, the year built, the
construction type, any buildingupdates that allow a broker to
more accurately quote theproperty.
If a building is old with noupdates, you're likely going to
be given a basic actual cashvalue quote in return.
(02:59):
But maybe the building actuallyhas been updated and we can
give the insured special andreplacement cost.
Once a building or the latestupdates start to get about 25
years old, carriers start tolessen the coverage of loss and
valuation available.
Construction type is also avery important factor when
(03:19):
filling out the accord, as thatdrives most of the rate Agents.
Knowing the difference in thetypes of constructions and how
to distinguish is very helpful.
Sometimes we are told abuilding is joisted masonry and
the inspection reflects frame,or that is masonry
non-combustible and it isjoisted masonry.
When this comes up, we have toendorse the policy and go back
(03:41):
to the insured and ask for moremoney.
No one likes to have to do that.
My philosophy on buildingconstructions is that if we are
insured right on the side ofcaution, it is easier to give
the insured back more moneybecause the construction type
was better than expected thanhave to ask them for more
because it was worse.
Amanda Knight (03:59):
I can understand that I can get behind that.
Who wants to ask anyone formore money?
Destinie Kindle (04:10):
Agents should pay particular attention to
things like wiring on olderbuildings to confirm that they
do not have electricalcomponents that have active
recalls on them, such as FederalPacific, for example.
There is nothing worse thanbinding a policy, getting the
inspection back and the wiringis something that is prohibited
with the carrier.
Now the insured is faced withdirect notice of cancellation
and 30 to 45 days to correct theelectrical issues, which could
(04:30):
result in a few thousands ofdollars just to keep their
policy in force.
Remarketing the policy israrely an option because most
carriers prohibit the same typesof electrical components.
Electrical components I oftenshare an article about Federal
Pacific breaker boxes with myagent to share with her, and
sure it often lessens themgetting upset and them
(04:52):
understanding the actual why itis not a good thing to have
these kind of thing.
If writing a schedule ofbuildings typically five or more
an SOV or schedule of values ismore helpful for us as brokers,
but they must include crucialdetails like address, occupancy,
building type, constructiontype, updates the most important
stuff that are on an accord 140and used for rating the
(05:14):
building, including lost runs.
With your complete applicationsfor your new business
submission will always help getyour submission to the top of a
broker's stack of submissions.
If there have been large losses, an explanation of those losses
and anything done to preventthem from reoccurring also helps
us present this risk to acarrier for consideration.
Amanda Knight (05:35):
I guess one question I would have.
You know, you've given us a lotof information that agents need
to know.
Right, these are things thatneed to be in your submission.
Do we find that this is stuffthey know needs to be in there
and they, you know, just fallthrough the cracks?
Oh, I missed that.
Or do we find that there areagents out there that don't yet
(05:57):
understand everything that needsto be in there?
Destinie Kindle (05:59):
I think it's a little bit of both.
Sometimes it can be agents thatare new and don't realize the
importance of these details andthey don't take the time to ask
for updates on buildings ifthere's sprinklers, things like
that that would help us getbetter coverage, and they're
just not asking.
And me personally, I willalways go back and say, well,
you know, I need this and thisand I can give you special.
(06:20):
I'm not the type of broker thatjust throws it out the door
with basic ACV.
I want to help you getsomething better.
So I go back and I ask forupdates and nine times out of 10
, they have been updated.
Nobody asked and they justdidn't put it on there.
Amanda Knight (06:34):
Well, and we talked about some of the details
in here that you want to see,you know construction type,
electrical panels.
Does it have sprinklers?
Do you find that there arespecific things, even outside of
these, that they tend to leaveoff or forget about as being
important?
Destinie Kindle (06:52):
Most commonly the sprinkler information is
left off an alarm.
If they have an alarm.
If you're asking for BPP on abuilding and you don't have an
alarm, we can't warrant theft onthat building or BPP.
And so if we know that there'sa sprinkler, that's going to get
you a large credit and if weknow there's an alarm that's
going to get you theft coverage,and to me those items are the
(07:12):
most left off of the application.
Other than that, they'll giveyou your bill, square footage
and everything.
Construction type can often bewrong, but we on my team
generally Google every building.
We're going to write and lookat it and see if we agree with
your construction type and if wedon't, we'll second guess it
(07:36):
with you and then sometimes weagree on.
Well, let's do it as JM andmaybe it's vacenary
non-combustible and we'll giveyou more money back.
Amanda Knight (07:40):
Right, absolutely .
Who doesn't want to get moneyback?
That seems like the smart wayto do this.
You know there are some things,obviously, that you said no
carrier is going to want tocover like specific electrical
panels In you said no carrier'sgoing to want to cover like
specific electrical panels.
In that case is the only optionbecause you can't remarket, it
is the only option that theyliterally have to redo their
electrical system.
Destinie Kindle (07:59):
Yes, I have one right now that I'm actually
working on that I just had togive them.
We're going to give them 60days on because it was so bad.
But they had A federal Pacificpanel box and B fuses and this
building had been written in thestandard market for years and
years and my only assumption isthat they don't do inspections
in the standard market.
So sometimes, when it's beenwritten in standard market all
(08:20):
these years, these things arenever found until it doesn't fit
the standard market and itcomes to ENS.
And now we do inspections andwe find the things and their
only option is to fix it and itcan be costly.
But most people when theyunderstand the risk of fire
hazard, then they fix it and thefact that they're not going to
be able to get any insuranceanywhere else because nobody is
(08:42):
going to write fuses on this one, for example.
But federal Pacific is a bigone.
Some don't like square D.
There's a.
There's a long list of theelectrical components that are
prohibited with most carriers.
Amanda Knight (08:54):
And that seems like knowledge, as a retail
agent, you want to have in handin advance.
Like through our writtenarticle companion piece, we
listed out some real specificthings that our retail agents
need to be on the lookout for.
But if I'm an agent and Ihappen to send you a submission
that doesn't have everything init that maybe it should, how
(09:15):
does that impact the process foryou?
Like, does it extend it by asignificant amount of time?
Do you have to hold it and notgo to the market yet because no
underwriter wants to touch itmultiple times?
What does it do for you guyswhen you get something that you
just can't work with yet?
Destinie Kindle (09:31):
It really slows the process down because we
can't quote a building if wedon't have all the information.
And if we do have theinformation but maybe there's
better information like updatesthen we're just touching it
twice because we're rating itonce with what you gave us, Then
we're going back and asking formore information and you're
touching it multiple times whereif we had just had it all up
front, you probably would havegotten it a lot faster.
(09:52):
And if it's a brokerage play,the brokerage markets don't like
you going back and forth, backand forth.
Well, here's some more updatesand here's some more updates.
They want it all and they wantit all up front.
So sometimes I won't submit itto a brokerage market until I
know all of that, because theydon't like that.
Amanda Knight (10:09):
Right.
I totally get that.
I can understand why that wouldbe a pain for everybody.
So in what ways cancollaborating with a
knowledgeable wholesalebrokerage company enhance our
retail agent's ability to securefavorable terms for their small
business and middle marketclients?
Destinie Kindle (10:28):
Here at CRC, we're looking to provide the
agent with the best termsavailable for the best price for
them to be able to sell it totheir insured and know what they
are selling as a good product.
If they have any questions,they can always count on our
brokers to give an explanationor help educate them on the
matter that they may not knowmuch about or understand.
Our organization is full ofvery knowledgeable brokers for
(10:52):
just about every line ofbusiness or risk you can think
of, and that is why CRC shouldalways be your first thought.
Amanda Knight (10:58):
And do you find that once they work with us
Destiny, they want to keepcoming back?
Scott Gordon (11:03):
I do.
Amanda Knight (11:04):
Shameless plug.
Scott Gordon (11:04):
I do Good, you can tell them, it is your destiny.
Destinie Kindle (11:09):
I've heard that a time or two.
Scott Gordon (11:11):
I've been waiting the whole podcast to say that
Sorry.
Amanda Knight (11:15):
Now, destiny, you haven't joined us before so you
may not know what's next, butit is a fun segment called Rapid
Fire.
We have just a couple of funquestions.
Since you're done with the hardpart, you just go with whatever
pops into your head first, andwe just did two for this episode
.
So question number one if youcould live in any historical
(11:37):
period, including current day, Iguess, which one would you
choose, and why?
Destinie Kindle (11:46):
I don't know.
I don't know, maybe the 50s orthe 60s would be a good time to
live.
I don't know.
I've never really thought aboutthat, to be honest with you.
That's what makes it a funquestion.
I mean, anything's got to bebetter than these days.
Amanda Knight (12:00):
Right, lots of things happening, okay.
And then your favorite recentbinge watch TV show.
Or, if you're not a TV personbecause we found not all of our
guests are Do you have afavorite movie or book that you
have gotten into lately?
Destinie Kindle (12:16):
Not a huge reader, but I do like to watch
murder mystery crime shows.
I just finished re-watchingMaking a Murder with my husband
because he has not seen it, butwe watched Dateline in 2020 and
any of those murder mysteries.
We watch those all the time.
Amanda Knight (12:33):
Me too.
I am a true crime junkie.
Junkie, I'll have to email youmy list of current Netflix
favorite crime documentaries foryou to dive into.
Scott Gordon (12:44):
Well, Destiny, thanks so much for being here.
Destinie Kindle (12:45):
It was fun.
Thanks for having me on.
Scott Gordon (12:48):
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you too.
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