March 8, 2024 • 23 mins
Listen in as Lee McClure a Senior Healthcare Broker with Team CRC in Birmingham, Truitt Taylor, a Broker with CRC Group’s Jackson, MS office, and Rebecca Adelman, founder of Adelman Claims Management, discuss the terrain of the senior living insurance marketplace. Our guests discuss evolving litigation trends, from staffing quandaries to medication missteps, and lay out the blueprint for proactive claims management as well as other tools, insights, and strategies that can empower retail agents to help their insureds make more informed choices when it comes to their insurance programs.
Visit REDYIndex.com for critical pricing analysis and a snapshot of the marketplace.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amanda Knight (00:00):
Hello everyone.
Today, scott and I are joinedby some of the best healthcare
brokers we know.
We've got Lee McClure, a seniorhealthcare broker from CRC
Group's Birmingham Alabamaoffice.
We've also got Truett Taylor,an SVP and broker with our
Jackson Mississippi office, andfinally, last but not least, we
have special guest RebeccaAdelman, founder of Adelman
(00:23):
Claims Management, anorganization providing claims
and litigation managementservices for future care.
Rrg, a risk retention groupthat offers professional,
general and employee benefits,liability as well as other
supplemental coverages forsenior care providers across 32
different states.
This is the Placing you Firstpodcast from CRC Group.
(01:06):
Well, I think it's safe to saywe've stacked the podcast today,
Scott.
Scott Gordon (01:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you all for being here.
So let's jump in with sort of areader's digest version of what
the senior living market islike in early 2024.
Each of you kind of can yougive us a one sentence summary
that sort of sums up the marketright now.
Lee McClure (01:27):
Sure, this is Lee McClure.
I'll go ahead, I think rightnow from a one sentence
standpoint, I believe it's veryunpredictable.
You know a lot of new internsin the marketplace We've liked
renewals are very challenging.
Just rates and just the wholeoverall process is very
unpredictable.
Truitt Taylor (01:46):
And I would tend to agree with Lee.
I'd probably use the wordvolatile.
It's unpredictable and volatile.
The claims are still there, butthere are new market entrants
and I think everybody's justtrying to get their hands around
what the claims are going tolook like coming out of COVID
and what this new competition isgoing to do to the terms and
(02:06):
the pricing as we go forwardinto 2024.
Rebecca Adelman (02:09):
Yeah, this is Rebecca.
Thanks again for having me.
For my perspective as a lawyerand a claims manager, my sort of
one sentence on what themarketplace is like now.
The general marketplace, is itsome risky litigation business?
I think it's a little risky inthe litigation world, which then
lends itself to some proactiveclaims management.
Amanda Knight (02:32):
Well, you're talking about claims and the
fact that the marketplace is,you know, a little volatile, for
lack of a better word.
We know that senior livingfacilities are under pressure,
right, they've got rising costs,they've got staff shortages and
, in an effort to reduceexpenses, some facilities may be
looking for an alternativeliability option.
(02:53):
New entrants to the market mayoffer some lower prices than an
incumbent carrier.
However, is a new carrieralways the right long term
solution?
What do agents and insurersneed to consider before making a
change like that in an effortto garner some short term
savings?
Truitt Taylor (03:13):
So I think I can take that one to start.
I mean, the first thing isprices, just one of the metrics
that you want to consider whenyou're considering insurance for
your senior living facility.
The next one is the terms andconditions of the policy,
because they all differ.
Everybody's policy is totallydifferent.
It's written individually foreach individual carrier and
there's a lot of restrictionsthat are being put on there.
(03:34):
So just because it's thecheapest doesn't always make it
the best.
And then the third is reallythe longevity and the claim
handling ability of the carriers.
How long have they been in themarket?
What's their experience been inhandling claims and what's
their experience going to be?
What's your experience going tobe with them handling your
claim?
Because it's all good to save afew dollars on the front end,
(03:56):
but if it costs you a lot in thelong term, that's really not
the best option for you.
Lee McClure (04:01):
Yeah, I think Truitt nailed it there.
To me there's a lot of value inunderstanding who your claims
adjuster is the process ofclaims reporting you can't
really put a price on that, andwhen you have to reinvent that
on your account executive level,a lot of things can get missed.
The other thing I would add tooand I think Rebecca could
(04:21):
comment on this would be Anytimeyou go with a new entry or a
new market, they've never had adefense verdict, so they don't
know how to attack a seniorhousing claim or even what the
process could look like, untilyou're there and now you're
spending more money defendingsomething that may have been
settled with your previouscarrier because there was
rapport and there was.
(04:42):
You know a rhythm to.
You know being with someone foran extended amount of time.
And then, like you hadmentioned, you know certain
mechanics of the policy.
You know anytime you changecarriers, you may assume that
you have certain functions, butdon't.
And that's where you canrealize that the cost of save
money up front ends up costingmore because you didn't have
(05:04):
certain luxuries.
Rebecca Adelman (05:05):
Yeah, for me this falls into this.
Is Rebecca, this falls intoPennywise pound foolish?
I think what I have seen withour risk retention group is that
it really is about subjectmatter expertise and being able
to align the mission and thevision of your senior living you
know portfolio with your claimsgroup to really get to know who
(05:29):
you are.
It's a very complex ecosystemsenior living is, and so really
to sort of a short range look at, you know, saving a few dollars
on the bottom line versus thelong range view of how do we
proactively mitigate risk, howdo we work on our claims and try
and use the claim, you know,the claim expertise that we have
(05:53):
in senior living, for example,both from a legal standpoint,
from a risk managementstandpoint, to, you know, help
manage all of those resourceswith a long view.
I don't think this can be ashort view.
Senior living isn't a shortview.
It never has been.
So I think that's making surethat you know there's proactive
risk mitigation strategies inplace that are tried, that are
(06:15):
true, and that you've gotsubject matter expertise, you
know, in the, you know with thecarrier on the claim side.
That's, that's those would bemy key factors that I think
should be considered.
Scott Gordon (06:27):
Well, and this will be a good jumping off from
that and maybe a littleredundancy here but in the last
few years, especially the seniorliving sector has evolved a bit
, especially post pandemic.
So what trends are emergingaround the data?
Underwriters want to seesubmission requirements,
exclusions or other areas thatagents need to be aware of.
Lee McClure (06:48):
I mean, I think the biggest thing we're seeing
right now from a submissionstandpoint is there's a lot of
emphasis on staffing levels.
I mean, obviously we've talkedabout that really since COVID
that you know a lot of undridersare really focused on the
staffing levels.
You know people that areoverworked and there's a large,
you know, patient to staff ratio.
Then the assumption is at somepoint something's going to be
(07:10):
missed, which could obviously,you know, turn into an adverse
event.
I think financials are becominga larger requirement now,
especially if an insurer islooking to take on a larger
deductible to make sure thefacility is solvent.
And then, unfortunately, youknow the 10 plus years of lost
(07:31):
data, which is reallychallenging if they've changed
hands multiple times.
From an exclusion standpoint,we're seeing markets put up
class action exclusions.
I think all of that stem fromCOVID, potentially.
But you've got markets that youknow there is no wiggle room
there and then, depending on themarket, you have people that
may sublimit certain adverseevents, whether it's a slip and
(07:55):
fall, bed sores, pressure ulcers, certain scenarios like that.
Amanda Knight (08:00):
In addition to the kinds of trends we're seeing
around, what kind of dataunderwriters want to see?
Are we seeing trends when itcomes to litigation or claims
Like are we seeing claims basedon lack of staff or other issues
needed to that?
Rebecca Adelman (08:16):
You know, I think we're seeing more and more
.
If we look at it from the10,000 foot view, the trend is
really about corporate liability.
So we're moving from the directoperator care provider and
zooming out to corporateexposure.
And then baked into corporateexposure is corporate management
, is private equity, is staffingbudgets.
(08:38):
So you've sort of got this sortof large.
You get this focus on howcorporate management, corporate
compliance and corporateliability is what their
operations look like.
I think we're seeing more andmore of that.
And management also, and Ithink that goes to sort of
underwriting making sure we'reunderwriting to good management.
And I'm seeing trends inassisted living.
(09:01):
I'm seeing more and moreassisted living cases.
The population in assistedliving has changed a lot and
we're seeing more and more onthe assisted living and memory
care side.
Post pandemic, of course, we allknow we're seeing much higher
verdict.
So I think post pandemic, youknow our, our juries, the people
(09:23):
who are making the decisionsaround these cases are seem to
be much angrier.
And you know senior living hasbeen the focus of sort of poor
reputational issues anyway.
But I think post pandemic it'sreally escalated.
So I think we're trying toovercome these massive hurdles
when it comes to reputationalissues and senior living.
(09:45):
So those are some of the trendsmuch more medication error
stuff, a lot more defendants incases where it used to just be
the senior living operator.
We're seeing physicians, we'reseeing you know pharmacy, we're
seeing you know rehab, we'reseeing hospice, so we're seeing
sort of the whole ecosystem as aset of defendants.
(10:07):
So got sort of some new, new,new game plans, new playbooks
since the since the pandemic, Ithink.
Truitt Taylor (10:14):
I mean, I would add to that she hit on it some
of the private equity stuff, butthere's been an abnormal amount
of merger and acquisitionactivity after the pandemic.
There's just been a lot of likelike a lot of industries.
There's been a lot ofconsolidation in the senior
living space, and so, from aplacement perspective, we are
getting a significant amountmore questions from our
insurance carrier underwriterstrying to determine exactly who
(10:39):
owns the facility, whatexperience they have, where they
came from, what otherfacilities they've managed or
owned.
We're getting we're getting alot more questions related to
all right, not just what is thename of the facility, but who is
the person or persons that I'mensuring, who, who are the
people running this facility?
Amanda Knight (10:57):
Well, with those trends in mind you know sort of
those, like you said, the 10,000foot view, these big macro
trends with more defendants, youknow hitting claims, that sort
of a wider claims going to havea wider ripple effect than maybe
ever before.
With that in mind, how cansenior living facilities
navigate that claims processeffectively to try to ensure a
(11:18):
timely resolution and minimize,you know, disruptions to the way
they operate?
Rebecca Adelman (11:23):
Yeah, I think it all starts with, I think,
from from our perspective as theclaims management group for
future care, our goal is to stayas proactive as possible and to
know as much about the internalenterprise risk management of
our clients, understand theiryou know their management's
(11:45):
internal policies, proceduresand protocols and so that we can
really help them proactively onthe risk side.
Number one in terms of claimsmanagement is to, again, you got
to make sure that the folks whoare handling your claims have
subject matter expertise.
It's so critically important.
It's a very, very complex claim.
Senior living is and andcontinues to become more complex
(12:10):
.
So and and so I think that'skind of some of the keys and
just make sure you've got greatcommunication with your claims
managers.
Make sure you involve everyone.
Break down the silos in yourown organization, in your own
senior living organization.
Break down those silos so youare getting internally feedback
(12:31):
and involvement in the claimsprocess from everyone who
appreciates and understands thatrisk belongs to everyone.
Lee McClure (12:37):
Yeah, Rebecca nails it there.
This is Lee, and I mean thebiggest thing that we tell our
brokers is it's okay to reportanything you thought could give
rise to a claim.
Because what we see insurersgetting trouble is it's a
locally owned property, theyknow all the residents, they
assume nothing's ever going tocome of a potential situation.
(12:58):
And then it does, and thenthey've either failed to report
in a timely manner and theneverybody's kind of backpedaling
to honor the filed claim.
So if anything happens wealways say report.
If nothing happens it doesn'tnegatively affect you, it
doesn't even go on the lawthrone until there's either
defense filed or there'sindemnity that may be triggered.
(13:19):
But to me it's always a goodsteward to your insurance, to
your claims team, to alwaysreport.
That way you're not missinganything.
Truitt Taylor (13:27):
You know we're talking about handling the
claims and making sure that theclaims process runs smoothly,
and we talked about the newinsurance and some of the new
insurance into the market, someof the evolution of the market.
I think it's always importantto have a broker or an agent
that understands the market andisn't going to, you know, we'll
(13:47):
go back to what Rebecca said apennywise pound full.
Place you with a carrier thatdoesn't have a claims apparatus
with an experience to handle acomplex senior living claim.
Scott Gordon (13:59):
Right.
Rebecca Adelman (14:00):
And to add to that too, scott, you've got to
make sure that your attorneysthat are being assigned to
defend these cases reallyunderstand how to defend senior
living.
These are not medicalmalpractice cases, they're not
general liability cases.
You know they are very uniqueand have these qualities that
(14:21):
are very, very unique.
So again, you know,understanding leverage points
all of that is very, is verycritically important on the
claims side, I think.
Scott Gordon (14:30):
You know whether it's placing business or working
through a claim.
At CRC group, we prideourselves on being, you know,
specialists that can get the jobdone for our retail partners.
So how can partnering with theCRC group producer help agents
with health care or seniorliving industry insurers?
Truitt Taylor (14:48):
So I think, first it's the expertise right.
So for most of us this ispredominantly all we do all day,
every day, is handle placementsfor senior living operators.
So with that comes you knowwhat I'm going to call
unparalleled market access andproducts that they're going to
get from us that they can't getanywhere else.
They get the expertise, and sowhat they get it really is the
(15:10):
guidance and the specialty toknow that when they bring a risk
to us it's going to be placedwith the proper carrier, at the
proper price, with the properterms and conditions.
Lee McClure (15:21):
in a nutshell, yeah , I would agree with that.
Truett, I think you know,obviously, working with a large
wholesaler like CRC, you know wedo have a lot of leverage in
the marketplace.
So I do think anytime you canpartner with a specialist in
addition to a retail broker whoalso specializes in the senior
housing vertical, I think itpresents well to the marketplace
(15:42):
and I think you know certainunderwriters see that as a
favorable combination and Ithink we're able to utilize both
sides of the fence like hey,this is coming from this
retailer, this wholesaler, andthen, you know, we also get the
privilege of utilizing the bestof the best underwriters, those
who are very broker-minded, whowant to write business just as
(16:02):
much as we do.
I think once you, you know,have that partnership and that
expertise, it shows.
It shows in a way that you knowCRC's healthcare practice group
writes $700 million in grossprofit and premium, with 45% of
that being senior housing driven.
I don't think anybody in thecountry can uh, say that those
(16:23):
are some great numbers.
Amanda Knight (16:24):
Now, rebecca, I know this wasn't on the outline,
but you know these guys thatwe've got on the podcast today.
Do you vouch for?
Rebecca Adelman (16:32):
them.
So I've known the guys at c r c.
I go way back with rusty and uhhave been.
You know, I've been in thesenior living industry for 35
years, so this is, you know,this is where I've spent really
all my time, uh, as a defenselawyer, as a claims manager, uh,
as a risk eliminator.
(16:52):
I like to say so, yeah, I'veknown c r c for for decades and
um, you know, the reason thatfuture care has aligned itself
with c r c is because of, youknow, their expertise and their,
you know connectivity in the um, in the marketplace and how
they really do deliver and andhow it intersects with our
(17:15):
mission vision of how theyreally deliver um, the finest,
really the finest product andand services.
So I think, uh, you know that's, there was just a total
alignment of our um, of ourvalue sets in senior living, in
in choosing the you know ourbroker partner, so, um, but yeah
, I've known them, I think, true, and I've known to use a baby.
(17:36):
These are like little kids,true, and we are children
compared to.
So, anyway, thank you forasking, amanda.
These relationships are, theyare the most important drivers
of, of quality really yeah, andall reality.
Truitt Taylor (17:53):
Rebecca and I probably did meet on this 20
years ago, so I don't know Idon't know who that's telling on
more she or I, but it's been atleast 20 years of relationships
, so it has it has.
Amanda Knight (18:04):
I think that says great things about both future
care rg and about c rc group.
When we say we have longlasting, thriving marketplace
relationships, we back that up,and you guys just did that.
You know you've, you've knowneach other for 20 years, so that
says something to me, and Ithink it says something to our
listeners too we've got.
Scott Gordon (18:23):
C rc has a deep bench, no doubt, yeah, we've got
.
We've got a lot, a lot ofknowledge here all right, scott,
take us home um, well, uh, ifanyone has anything else to add,
otherwise we can get to the funstuff.
Do you guys want to answer some, uh, rapid fire questions?
What are those?
Okay, well, this is just alittle quick thing we do.
(18:43):
We just have a rapid fire whereyou just answer the first thing
that comes into your mind.
There's no right or wronganswers no, no right or wrong
we'll go.
Uh, we'll go alphabetical, bylast name.
Yeah, we'll go.
Rebecca lee, and true, it firstone.
This is pitched to rebeccafirst.
If you had to eat one meal forthe rest of your life, just one
meal what would it be?
Lee McClure (19:04):
um um vegetarian omelet healthy, healthy, good
choice lee uh, mom, to be steakfor sure we got the vegetarian
and the carnivore.
Amanda Knight (19:17):
All right, true it.
Truitt Taylor (19:18):
You're up, I'm gonna, I'm gonna fall in the
middle and say spaghetti oh nice, that's some good answers
number two what's your biggestirrational phobia and why?
Rebecca Adelman (19:30):
what's yours?
Amanda Knight (19:30):
amanda and get us rolling.
Rebecca Adelman (19:32):
All my teeth falling out at one time, oh my
gosh I have nightmares amanda,amanda, that is the craziest
thing I know, that is mine Ihave dreams about that me too,
they coming out uh-huh.
Amanda Knight (19:45):
They say it's a stress dream, but I have
nightmares where they do they do.
Rebecca Adelman (19:49):
Well, if that's the case, then then you're,
we're in the same boat, all myand my hair and my hair I know
what about you guys.
Amanda Knight (19:57):
Do you guys have any weird stress, dream slash
phobia?
Lee McClure (20:00):
mine's probably missing a flight, oversleeping
for an early oh, whatever reason.
Anytime I travel, I don't sleep, but I'm constantly waking up.
Same, so it's just more ofthose like oh, I'm sleeping
longer than I need to be, butyet you know, it's still early
in the morning yep, true.
Amanda Knight (20:18):
Are you fearless?
Truitt Taylor (20:19):
I don't know about fearless, I will say you
know, one of my phobias isprobably heights.
So you can't, you can't tellthis from the podcast, but I'm
I'm not very tall, so I don'tlike being far off the ground,
me neither me neither.
Scott Gordon (20:33):
True it wow, okay, now this last one.
Yeah, this, I'm gonna expand alittle bit on this one.
If you could time travel,travel, when would you go and
where would you go?
Rebecca Adelman (20:45):
oh goodness, gracious everybody, I go back to
1976 and I would go to cedarpoint in sandalsky, ohio, in
this big amusement park where Iwould spend days with my dad,
who has since passed.
So that is what I would do.
I would go back and spend timewith him.
That's what I would do.
Amanda Knight (21:05):
That's sweet anybody else want to try and
travel well, yeah, I don't know.
Lee McClure (21:10):
I mean, mom would probably go back in in a period
of time that you know.
You just read about whetherthat you know.
I mean, I don't know, I reallyhadn't really thought about time
travel, uh, probably just tosee what life was like, but, um,
there's not a certain timeperiod that I've thought about,
but I can tell you where I don'twant to go.
Amanda Knight (21:31):
I don't know where I want to go in the past,
but you know I have zerointerest in like time traveling
too far into the future.
Scott Gordon (21:37):
I feel like maybe I don't want to know I was gonna
say nobody wants to go to thefuture anymore right, just
surprise me
Truitt Taylor (21:44):
I mean I, I was gonna say I, I.
You know I had trouble gettinglogged into the podcast so I
probably didn't know how to dofuture well.
Amanda Knight (21:54):
Thank you all for being here, even when you had a
little technical difficulty.
We appreciate your patience,rebecca, we also really enjoyed
having you as a special guestwith us today.
Thanks for having me, you guys.
If you're a listener, weappreciate you too.
Providing current insights intothe marketplace is just one
more way crc group is placingyou first.
Don't forget to subscribe andshare.
Hello everyone.
Today, scott and I are joinedby some of the best healthcare
brokers we know.
We've got Lee McClure, a seniorhealthcare broker from CRC
Group's Birmingham Alabamaoffice.
We've also got Truett Taylor,an SVP and broker with our
Jackson Mississippi office, andfinally, last but not least, we
have special guest RebeccaAdelman, founder of Adelman
(00:23):
Claims Management, anorganization providing claims
and litigation managementservices for future care.
Rrg, a risk retention groupthat offers professional,
general and employee benefits,liability as well as other
supplemental coverages forsenior care providers across 32
different states.
This is the Placing you Firstpodcast from CRC Group.
(01:06):
Well, I think it's safe to saywe've stacked the podcast today,
Scott.
Scott Gordon (01:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you all for being here.
So let's jump in with sort of areader's digest version of what
the senior living market islike in early 2024.
Each of you kind of can yougive us a one sentence summary
that sort of sums up the marketright now.
Lee McClure (01:27):
Sure, this is Lee McClure.
I'll go ahead, I think rightnow from a one sentence
standpoint, I believe it's veryunpredictable.
You know a lot of new internsin the marketplace We've liked
renewals are very challenging.
Just rates and just the wholeoverall process is very
unpredictable.
Truitt Taylor (01:46):
And I would tend to agree with Lee.
I'd probably use the wordvolatile.
It's unpredictable and volatile.
The claims are still there, butthere are new market entrants
and I think everybody's justtrying to get their hands around
what the claims are going tolook like coming out of COVID
and what this new competition isgoing to do to the terms and
(02:06):
the pricing as we go forwardinto 2024.
Rebecca Adelman (02:09):
Yeah, this is Rebecca.
Thanks again for having me.
For my perspective as a lawyerand a claims manager, my sort of
one sentence on what themarketplace is like now.
The general marketplace, is itsome risky litigation business?
I think it's a little risky inthe litigation world, which then
lends itself to some proactiveclaims management.
Amanda Knight (02:32):
Well, you're talking about claims and the
fact that the marketplace is,you know, a little volatile, for
lack of a better word.
We know that senior livingfacilities are under pressure,
right, they've got rising costs,they've got staff shortages and
, in an effort to reduceexpenses, some facilities may be
looking for an alternativeliability option.
(02:53):
New entrants to the market mayoffer some lower prices than an
incumbent carrier.
However, is a new carrieralways the right long term
solution?
What do agents and insurersneed to consider before making a
change like that in an effortto garner some short term
savings?
Truitt Taylor (03:13):
So I think I can take that one to start.
I mean, the first thing isprices, just one of the metrics
that you want to consider whenyou're considering insurance for
your senior living facility.
The next one is the terms andconditions of the policy,
because they all differ.
Everybody's policy is totallydifferent.
It's written individually foreach individual carrier and
there's a lot of restrictionsthat are being put on there.
(03:34):
So just because it's thecheapest doesn't always make it
the best.
And then the third is reallythe longevity and the claim
handling ability of the carriers.
How long have they been in themarket?
What's their experience been inhandling claims and what's
their experience going to be?
What's your experience going tobe with them handling your
claim?
Because it's all good to save afew dollars on the front end,
(03:56):
but if it costs you a lot in thelong term, that's really not
the best option for you.
Lee McClure (04:01):
Yeah, I think Truitt nailed it there.
To me there's a lot of value inunderstanding who your claims
adjuster is the process ofclaims reporting you can't
really put a price on that, andwhen you have to reinvent that
on your account executive level,a lot of things can get missed.
The other thing I would add tooand I think Rebecca could
(04:21):
comment on this would be Anytimeyou go with a new entry or a
new market, they've never had adefense verdict, so they don't
know how to attack a seniorhousing claim or even what the
process could look like, untilyou're there and now you're
spending more money defendingsomething that may have been
settled with your previouscarrier because there was
rapport and there was.
(04:42):
You know a rhythm to.
You know being with someone foran extended amount of time.
And then, like you hadmentioned, you know certain
mechanics of the policy.
You know anytime you changecarriers, you may assume that
you have certain functions, butdon't.
And that's where you canrealize that the cost of save
money up front ends up costingmore because you didn't have
(05:04):
certain luxuries.
Rebecca Adelman (05:05):
Yeah, for me this falls into this.
Is Rebecca, this falls intoPennywise pound foolish?
I think what I have seen withour risk retention group is that
it really is about subjectmatter expertise and being able
to align the mission and thevision of your senior living you
know portfolio with your claimsgroup to really get to know who
(05:29):
you are.
It's a very complex ecosystemsenior living is, and so really
to sort of a short range look at, you know, saving a few dollars
on the bottom line versus thelong range view of how do we
proactively mitigate risk, howdo we work on our claims and try
and use the claim, you know,the claim expertise that we have
(05:53):
in senior living, for example,both from a legal standpoint,
from a risk managementstandpoint, to, you know, help
manage all of those resourceswith a long view.
I don't think this can be ashort view.
Senior living isn't a shortview.
It never has been.
So I think that's making surethat you know there's proactive
risk mitigation strategies inplace that are tried, that are
(06:15):
true, and that you've gotsubject matter expertise, you
know, in the, you know with thecarrier on the claim side.
That's, that's those would bemy key factors that I think
should be considered.
Scott Gordon (06:27):
Well, and this will be a good jumping off from
that and maybe a littleredundancy here but in the last
few years, especially the seniorliving sector has evolved a bit
, especially post pandemic.
So what trends are emergingaround the data?
Underwriters want to seesubmission requirements,
exclusions or other areas thatagents need to be aware of.
Lee McClure (06:48):
I mean, I think the biggest thing we're seeing
right now from a submissionstandpoint is there's a lot of
emphasis on staffing levels.
I mean, obviously we've talkedabout that really since COVID
that you know a lot of undridersare really focused on the
staffing levels.
You know people that areoverworked and there's a large,
you know, patient to staff ratio.
Then the assumption is at somepoint something's going to be
(07:10):
missed, which could obviously,you know, turn into an adverse
event.
I think financials are becominga larger requirement now,
especially if an insurer islooking to take on a larger
deductible to make sure thefacility is solvent.
And then, unfortunately, youknow the 10 plus years of lost
(07:31):
data, which is reallychallenging if they've changed
hands multiple times.
From an exclusion standpoint,we're seeing markets put up
class action exclusions.
I think all of that stem fromCOVID, potentially.
But you've got markets that youknow there is no wiggle room
there and then, depending on themarket, you have people that
may sublimit certain adverseevents, whether it's a slip and
(07:55):
fall, bed sores, pressure ulcers, certain scenarios like that.
Amanda Knight (08:00):
In addition to the kinds of trends we're seeing
around, what kind of dataunderwriters want to see?
Are we seeing trends when itcomes to litigation or claims
Like are we seeing claims basedon lack of staff or other issues
needed to that?
Rebecca Adelman (08:16):
You know, I think we're seeing more and more
.
If we look at it from the10,000 foot view, the trend is
really about corporate liability.
So we're moving from the directoperator care provider and
zooming out to corporateexposure.
And then baked into corporateexposure is corporate management
, is private equity, is staffingbudgets.
(08:38):
So you've sort of got this sortof large.
You get this focus on howcorporate management, corporate
compliance and corporateliability is what their
operations look like.
I think we're seeing more andmore of that.
And management also, and Ithink that goes to sort of
underwriting making sure we'reunderwriting to good management.
And I'm seeing trends inassisted living.
(09:01):
I'm seeing more and moreassisted living cases.
The population in assistedliving has changed a lot and
we're seeing more and more onthe assisted living and memory
care side.
Post pandemic, of course, we allknow we're seeing much higher
verdict.
So I think post pandemic, youknow our, our juries, the people
(09:23):
who are making the decisionsaround these cases are seem to
be much angrier.
And you know senior living hasbeen the focus of sort of poor
reputational issues anyway.
But I think post pandemic it'sreally escalated.
So I think we're trying toovercome these massive hurdles
when it comes to reputationalissues and senior living.
(09:45):
So those are some of the trendsmuch more medication error
stuff, a lot more defendants incases where it used to just be
the senior living operator.
We're seeing physicians, we'reseeing you know pharmacy, we're
seeing you know rehab, we'reseeing hospice, so we're seeing
sort of the whole ecosystem as aset of defendants.
(10:07):
So got sort of some new, new,new game plans, new playbooks
since the since the pandemic, Ithink.
Truitt Taylor (10:14):
I mean, I would add to that she hit on it some
of the private equity stuff, butthere's been an abnormal amount
of merger and acquisitionactivity after the pandemic.
There's just been a lot of likelike a lot of industries.
There's been a lot ofconsolidation in the senior
living space, and so, from aplacement perspective, we are
getting a significant amountmore questions from our
insurance carrier underwriterstrying to determine exactly who
(10:39):
owns the facility, whatexperience they have, where they
came from, what otherfacilities they've managed or
owned.
We're getting we're getting alot more questions related to
all right, not just what is thename of the facility, but who is
the person or persons that I'mensuring, who, who are the
people running this facility?
Amanda Knight (10:57):
Well, with those trends in mind you know sort of
those, like you said, the 10,000foot view, these big macro
trends with more defendants, youknow hitting claims, that sort
of a wider claims going to havea wider ripple effect than maybe
ever before.
With that in mind, how cansenior living facilities
navigate that claims processeffectively to try to ensure a
(11:18):
timely resolution and minimize,you know, disruptions to the way
they operate?
Rebecca Adelman (11:23):
Yeah, I think it all starts with, I think,
from from our perspective as theclaims management group for
future care, our goal is to stayas proactive as possible and to
know as much about the internalenterprise risk management of
our clients, understand theiryou know their management's
(11:45):
internal policies, proceduresand protocols and so that we can
really help them proactively onthe risk side.
Number one in terms of claimsmanagement is to, again, you got
to make sure that the folks whoare handling your claims have
subject matter expertise.
It's so critically important.
It's a very, very complex claim.
Senior living is and andcontinues to become more complex
(12:10):
.
So and and so I think that'skind of some of the keys and
just make sure you've got greatcommunication with your claims
managers.
Make sure you involve everyone.
Break down the silos in yourown organization, in your own
senior living organization.
Break down those silos so youare getting internally feedback
(12:31):
and involvement in the claimsprocess from everyone who
appreciates and understands thatrisk belongs to everyone.
Lee McClure (12:37):
Yeah, Rebecca nails it there.
This is Lee, and I mean thebiggest thing that we tell our
brokers is it's okay to reportanything you thought could give
rise to a claim.
Because what we see insurersgetting trouble is it's a
locally owned property, theyknow all the residents, they
assume nothing's ever going tocome of a potential situation.
(12:58):
And then it does, and thenthey've either failed to report
in a timely manner and theneverybody's kind of backpedaling
to honor the filed claim.
So if anything happens wealways say report.
If nothing happens it doesn'tnegatively affect you, it
doesn't even go on the lawthrone until there's either
defense filed or there'sindemnity that may be triggered.
(13:19):
But to me it's always a goodsteward to your insurance, to
your claims team, to alwaysreport.
That way you're not missinganything.
Truitt Taylor (13:27):
You know we're talking about handling the
claims and making sure that theclaims process runs smoothly,
and we talked about the newinsurance and some of the new
insurance into the market, someof the evolution of the market.
I think it's always importantto have a broker or an agent
that understands the market andisn't going to, you know, we'll
(13:47):
go back to what Rebecca said apennywise pound full.
Place you with a carrier thatdoesn't have a claims apparatus
with an experience to handle acomplex senior living claim.
Scott Gordon (13:59):
Right.
Rebecca Adelman (14:00):
And to add to that too, scott, you've got to
make sure that your attorneysthat are being assigned to
defend these cases reallyunderstand how to defend senior
living.
These are not medicalmalpractice cases, they're not
general liability cases.
You know they are very uniqueand have these qualities that
(14:21):
are very, very unique.
So again, you know,understanding leverage points
all of that is very, is verycritically important on the
claims side, I think.
Scott Gordon (14:30):
You know whether it's placing business or working
through a claim.
At CRC group, we prideourselves on being, you know,
specialists that can get the jobdone for our retail partners.
So how can partnering with theCRC group producer help agents
with health care or seniorliving industry insurers?
Truitt Taylor (14:48):
So I think, first it's the expertise right.
So for most of us this ispredominantly all we do all day,
every day, is handle placementsfor senior living operators.
So with that comes you knowwhat I'm going to call
unparalleled market access andproducts that they're going to
get from us that they can't getanywhere else.
They get the expertise, and sowhat they get it really is the
(15:10):
guidance and the specialty toknow that when they bring a risk
to us it's going to be placedwith the proper carrier, at the
proper price, with the properterms and conditions.
Lee McClure (15:21):
in a nutshell, yeah , I would agree with that.
Truett, I think you know,obviously, working with a large
wholesaler like CRC, you know wedo have a lot of leverage in
the marketplace.
So I do think anytime you canpartner with a specialist in
addition to a retail broker whoalso specializes in the senior
housing vertical, I think itpresents well to the marketplace
(15:42):
and I think you know certainunderwriters see that as a
favorable combination and Ithink we're able to utilize both
sides of the fence like hey,this is coming from this
retailer, this wholesaler, andthen, you know, we also get the
privilege of utilizing the bestof the best underwriters, those
who are very broker-minded, whowant to write business just as
(16:02):
much as we do.
I think once you, you know,have that partnership and that
expertise, it shows.
It shows in a way that you knowCRC's healthcare practice group
writes $700 million in grossprofit and premium, with 45% of
that being senior housing driven.
I don't think anybody in thecountry can uh, say that those
(16:23):
are some great numbers.
Amanda Knight (16:24):
Now, rebecca, I know this wasn't on the outline,
but you know these guys thatwe've got on the podcast today.
Do you vouch for?
Rebecca Adelman (16:32):
them.
So I've known the guys at c r c.
I go way back with rusty and uhhave been.
You know, I've been in thesenior living industry for 35
years, so this is, you know,this is where I've spent really
all my time, uh, as a defenselawyer, as a claims manager, uh,
as a risk eliminator.
(16:52):
I like to say so, yeah, I'veknown c r c for for decades and
um, you know, the reason thatfuture care has aligned itself
with c r c is because of, youknow, their expertise and their,
you know connectivity in the um, in the marketplace and how
they really do deliver and andhow it intersects with our
(17:15):
mission vision of how theyreally deliver um, the finest,
really the finest product andand services.
So I think, uh, you know that's, there was just a total
alignment of our um, of ourvalue sets in senior living, in
in choosing the you know ourbroker partner, so, um, but yeah
, I've known them, I think, true, and I've known to use a baby.
(17:36):
These are like little kids,true, and we are children
compared to.
So, anyway, thank you forasking, amanda.
These relationships are, theyare the most important drivers
of, of quality really yeah, andall reality.
Truitt Taylor (17:53):
Rebecca and I probably did meet on this 20
years ago, so I don't know Idon't know who that's telling on
more she or I, but it's been atleast 20 years of relationships
, so it has it has.
Amanda Knight (18:04):
I think that says great things about both future
care rg and about c rc group.
When we say we have longlasting, thriving marketplace
relationships, we back that up,and you guys just did that.
You know you've, you've knowneach other for 20 years, so that
says something to me, and Ithink it says something to our
listeners too we've got.
Scott Gordon (18:23):
C rc has a deep bench, no doubt, yeah, we've got
.
We've got a lot, a lot ofknowledge here all right, scott,
take us home um, well, uh, ifanyone has anything else to add,
otherwise we can get to the funstuff.
Do you guys want to answer some, uh, rapid fire questions?
What are those?
Okay, well, this is just alittle quick thing we do.
(18:43):
We just have a rapid fire whereyou just answer the first thing
that comes into your mind.
There's no right or wronganswers no, no right or wrong
we'll go.
Uh, we'll go alphabetical, bylast name.
Yeah, we'll go.
Rebecca lee, and true, it firstone.
This is pitched to rebeccafirst.
If you had to eat one meal forthe rest of your life, just one
meal what would it be?
Lee McClure (19:04):
um um vegetarian omelet healthy, healthy, good
choice lee uh, mom, to be steakfor sure we got the vegetarian
and the carnivore.
Amanda Knight (19:17):
All right, true it.
Truitt Taylor (19:18):
You're up, I'm gonna, I'm gonna fall in the
middle and say spaghetti oh nice, that's some good answers
number two what's your biggestirrational phobia and why?
Rebecca Adelman (19:30):
what's yours?
Amanda Knight (19:30):
amanda and get us rolling.
Rebecca Adelman (19:32):
All my teeth falling out at one time, oh my
gosh I have nightmares amanda,amanda, that is the craziest
thing I know, that is mine Ihave dreams about that me too,
they coming out uh-huh.
Amanda Knight (19:45):
They say it's a stress dream, but I have
nightmares where they do they do.
Rebecca Adelman (19:49):
Well, if that's the case, then then you're,
we're in the same boat, all myand my hair and my hair I know
what about you guys.
Amanda Knight (19:57):
Do you guys have any weird stress, dream slash
phobia?
Lee McClure (20:00):
mine's probably missing a flight, oversleeping
for an early oh, whatever reason.
Anytime I travel, I don't sleep, but I'm constantly waking up.
Same, so it's just more ofthose like oh, I'm sleeping
longer than I need to be, butyet you know, it's still early
in the morning yep, true.
Amanda Knight (20:18):
Are you fearless?
Truitt Taylor (20:19):
I don't know about fearless, I will say you
know, one of my phobias isprobably heights.
So you can't, you can't tellthis from the podcast, but I'm
I'm not very tall, so I don'tlike being far off the ground,
me neither me neither.
Scott Gordon (20:33):
True it wow, okay, now this last one.
Yeah, this, I'm gonna expand alittle bit on this one.
If you could time travel,travel, when would you go and
where would you go?
Rebecca Adelman (20:45):
oh goodness, gracious everybody, I go back to
1976 and I would go to cedarpoint in sandalsky, ohio, in
this big amusement park where Iwould spend days with my dad,
who has since passed.
So that is what I would do.
I would go back and spend timewith him.
That's what I would do.
Amanda Knight (21:05):
That's sweet anybody else want to try and
travel well, yeah, I don't know.
Lee McClure (21:10):
I mean, mom would probably go back in in a period
of time that you know.
You just read about whetherthat you know.
I mean, I don't know, I reallyhadn't really thought about time
travel, uh, probably just tosee what life was like, but, um,
there's not a certain timeperiod that I've thought about,
but I can tell you where I don'twant to go.
Amanda Knight (21:31):
I don't know where I want to go in the past,
but you know I have zerointerest in like time traveling
too far into the future.
Scott Gordon (21:37):
I feel like maybe I don't want to know I was gonna
say nobody wants to go to thefuture anymore right, just
surprise me
Truitt Taylor (21:44):
I mean I, I was gonna say I, I.
You know I had trouble gettinglogged into the podcast so I
probably didn't know how to dofuture well.
Amanda Knight (21:54):
Thank you all for being here, even when you had a
little technical difficulty.
We appreciate your patience,rebecca, we also really enjoyed
having you as a special guestwith us today.
Thanks for having me, you guys.
If you're a listener, weappreciate you too.
Providing current insights intothe marketplace is just one
more way crc group is placingyou first.
Don't forget to subscribe andshare.
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