December 15, 2023 • 47 mins
Ready to conquer new horizons with your Amazon business? Unravel the mystery of international expansion with our esteemed guest, Piero Perera, the Strategy and Growth Account Manager at AVASK. We promise you an episode brimming with insights and practical advice that could be game-changing for your Amazon selling journey.
Navigating the VAT registration landscape, understanding the ins and outs of tax compliance, and getting to grips with the upcoming environmental taxes in Europe - we've got it all covered. Piero, an expert in global e-commerce expansion and tax compliance, shares his wisdom on these crucial aspects of taking your business beyond borders. Listen in as he discusses the potential pitfalls and rewards of international shipping, the impact of packaging taxation, and why having a multi-currency bank account is key for sellers setting their sights on Europe.
Not stopping there, we journey into the exciting realm of pan-European fulfillment for Amazon sellers. Harness the power of the Pan-European (Pan-EU) program and understand the importance of being VAT registered in multiple countries. Plus, if you've got your heart set on Europe, don't miss Piero's insights into this potentially lucrative market. Finally, we explore the prospect of expanding your Amazon and e-commerce business into other untapped markets. Ready to turbocharge your international selling potential?
For more information about AVASK, visit https://www.avaskgroup.com/
Want to chat with us about this podcast? Send us a text message here
The Planet Amazon podcast, brought to you by Phelps United, addresses all things Amazon and other eCommerce marketplaces. In each episode, we talk with Brands, Agencies, and Sellers about Amazon news, new features, policies, brand policies, logistics, marketing, issues, and challenges, among other topics.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcement (00:00):
Welcome to the Planet Amazon podcast with Adam
Shaffer, where we explore theworld of Amazon and other
e-commerce marketplaces.
Join us as we delve into thelatest strategies and tactics
for successful selling on theworld's largest online
marketplace.
Adam Shaffer (00:18):
Hello, I'm Adam Shaffer, and welcome to the
Planet Amazon podcast, where wetalk about all things Amazon,
and today we're going to talkabout something that's, you know
, on top of mind for lots of thesellers on Amazon, and that is
expanding internationally.
And those that are in NorthAmerica always want to be able
to grow, and it's easy to growwith Amazon, but there's
(00:40):
definitely some things you needto know before you break out of
North America, and so today Ihave with us a great guest that
is really an expert ininternational expansion.
His name is Piero Perera andhe's the manager of growth and
strategy for a AVASK.
They're a firm of tax expertswho specialize in global
(01:03):
e-commerce expansion,international taxation,
accountancy, business advisoryand consultancy services, but
they are cross-border VATexperts and they provide
tax-compliance advice to helpbrands grow into new
international marketplaces.
What's also cool is Piero isthe host of his own podcast
(01:25):
called the On Line Hustlepodcast.
Welcome to the show, Piero.
How are you?
Piero Perera (01:30):
Hey, adam, adam, thank you so much.
Yeah, very well, thank you somuch.
How are you?
Adam Shaffer (01:34):
I'm doing okay and you know I'm here in Miami but
based in the US, you know,servicing the US and Canada and
Mexico.
You tell us a little bit aboutyou, where you're based, and
then let's talk about your firmand what you guys do.
Piero Perera (01:48):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I'm in, actually, you know, abeautiful studio at AVASK
Studios.
It's where I record the onlineHustle podcast as well.
But, yeah, avast headquartersare based in Southampton, the
South Coast of the UK, as youmay tell by my British accent.
Yeah, that's where we're based,but the intro was absolutely
perfect.
That's exactly the things we dohere at Avast.
(02:10):
My job personally is to createlaunch strategies, especially
for businesses that I've, youknow, have incredible success in
the US and kind of want toreplicate that in Europe and in
other platforms, especially onAmazon, right?
So, yeah, by doing that, I makesure that, from the very start
(02:30):
to the very finish, we geteverything that is sourced and
everything that is required tobe able to not just enter but
also succeed in Europe.
Adam Shaffer (02:38):
So what's cool is I mean I met you guys at the
most recent Amazon Accelerateconference in Seattle and it's a
great show.
If you're a seller and youdon't go to that show, you
should.
But I mean I go there and Ilearn so much and you get to
meet a lot of the Amazon people.
But you get to meet all theseservice providers that are part
(02:59):
of the ecosystem, and Avast wasthere.
But what was really cool isthat they had international
breakout sessions and Amazon wastalking about getting into
Canada, getting into Brazil, newMexico, but also how do you get
into Amia and Asia, which arereally sizable markets for them,
and it was probably the mosttrafficked breakout of all the
(03:24):
breakouts at the AmazonAccelerate.
So I know there's a huge demandfor people saying how do I break
out of my bubble?
So I think it would be great tomaybe talk about how do you do
it, like I know it's kind of theboring part of it.
Everybody just wants to get onand start selling stuff.
But tell us like some of theissues with going, say, from US
(03:47):
to the UK, us to Germany, us toFrance what do you need to worry
about as a seller?
Piero Perera (03:53):
Yeah, so for the internationalization of
everything, I would say there'sa massive difference between
Amazoncom and all the otherAmazon markets.
On Amazon.
com, I always say the barriersof entry are very low, so it's
very easy for a business to evenstart on Amazon and start
selling Not necessarily besuccessful, but at least start
(04:13):
selling.
It's very, very easy.
Whilst in, especially theEuropean markets that you
mentioned, I always say there'sthe barriers, entry can be quite
high, but once those barriersof entries have been beaten,
there's a massive opportunity inthe whole continent because
there is it's a very hungry sortof consumer base that's ready
(04:33):
to purchase products and qualityproducts as well, especially
American based products as wellthat are there.
And yeah, those barriers ofentries is what probably I'll be
speaking about very soon.
Adam Shaffer (04:45):
Yeah, I mean so when I think about selling in
the UK, because for me it's easy, I understand the language.
It's more, for the most part, Ido anyway, and so I pretend.
I want to not pretend I do.
I do.
I want to sell in the UK and sowe're going to sell in the UK.
I'm approved to do it.
(05:07):
I could turn it on, but whatare some of the things I need to
worry about and it's the thingsI hate to think about, which is
like getting a VAT number andgetting registered and dealing
with the taxes, and that's whereyou guys come in and that's
where I am not going to be toogood.
So tell us about how it works.
(05:28):
What does sellers have to do?
Piero Perera (05:30):
Yeah, absolutely so.
From the very first point.
I would say, before we even gointo the VATs I think as much as
English is the same language Iwould definitely think about
checking the ability of yourproduct to be sold in the UK,
simply because there is amazingproducts such as Helium 10,
jungle Scout, that give you theopportunity to have a look at
(05:53):
how successful that product canbe and how your competitors or
similar products are doingcurrently in those markets.
And you select the UK sellerthings and you have a look.
Once you check that and youobviously know it's a feasible
option, I'd say nine out of 10products that sell well in the
US will sell well in the UK aswell.
So after doing that check, it'sthe VAT, the famous three
(06:15):
letters that I speak about on adaily basis, and VAT stands for
Value Added Tax.
It's basically the equivalentof sales tax in the US.
The only difference in the UKand Europe is normally, when
someone checks out a product inthe US, sales tax gets added at
(06:35):
the end, whilst in Europe, valueAdded Tax is included in that
retail price.
So the price that a customer isseeing in Europe is the price
that they will be paying intotal.
There's no other taxes to beadded.
The retail price is 40 countsor 40 euros.
The tax is included inclusivein that price and that's the
(07:00):
main difference I would say fordealing from Amazoncom to any
other Amazon in Europe.
Adam Shaffer (07:07):
So you're saying that.
You're saying like so if I'mselling something in the US for
$20, it's $20 plus the tax whenyou check out.
But in the UK that $20 includesthe tax, so you probably need
to increase the price of theproduct right?
Piero Perera (07:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
And the main thing in Europe isthat the rate isn't the same
for every country.
So for the UK is 20%, forGermany is 19%, italy is 22%,
hungary is 27%.
So all of a sudden, your priceactually can fluctuate.
Well, your profitability has tofluctuate accordingly, so you
have to be very careful.
(07:44):
It's something that I alwayswarn my US business that start
selling in the UK that, yes,your prices have to change.
They have to be a little bithigher in Europe for sure to
make sure that you cover thatcost, because Amazon Collector
remit.
Just like they do in the US forsales tax, they'll do the same
for Europe.
But all of a sudden you seeAmazon collecting quite a lot
(08:06):
more than you're used to.
And, yeah, it's because youhave to put your price up, but
yeah, the value is there.
Adam Shaffer (08:13):
So you're saying like so in the US because we
charge it extra tax.
We work on the selling price.
Here in the UK or Germany, it'sthe selling price and Amazon's
going to take a piece of that,their fee plus they're going to
take the VAD.
Is that what you're saying,correct?
Piero Perera (08:32):
Yeah, Amazon takes care of everything, which is a
fantastic advantage compared tomany, you know, selling on your
own website.
You know you have to take careof that yourself as well, On a
monthly or quarterly basis.
You would have to pay each taxauthority as well, on a constant
basis, right?
Because Amazon kind of collectsand remits everything for you.
So you only need a company likeAvast to prove that the sales
(08:55):
that you're doing, becausethat's a requirement that each
country has and it's somethingthat I'm going to speak about in
a second.
But, yeah, the VAT side ofthings it's a registration that
you must have and the number onerule I say to all my clients,
everyone that comes through toAvast it's all very related to
FBA, and if you're in afulfilling by Amazon and if
(09:18):
you're planning on storing goodsin a fulfillment center in
Amazon in a particular countryin Europe, you must be
registered for VAT in thatcountry.
That is the number one triggerfor VAT, Because even right now,
you could possibly sell yourproducts from the US all the way
to Europe.
However, what are theseadvantages?
(09:39):
You're not going to be anAmazon Prime seller.
You're going to have to pay forshipping a higher shipping fee
and there's still limitations interms of how you can actually
sell the products.
I have a lot of US businesseslooking to the European option.
All of a sudden, the marginsget cut simply because they're
not physically in Europe, andthat's a massive difference
(10:03):
maker really.
So, yeah, it's the number onetrigger.
If you're planning a story inthe FBA center UK, Germany,
France, any of these countriesyou must register for VAT.
Adam Shaffer (10:13):
So is that step number one.
Walk us through the process.
Piero Perera (10:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
As I said, the process for meon a business basis is
researching the product andmaking sure that there is
competition and the product hasits own positioning in these
countries right.
Once you have done that, thefirst thing is probably looking
at the product compliance.
So product compliance isunderstanding whether your
product is actually legallyallowed to be sold in these
(10:42):
countries.
So, for example, cosmetics haveits own requirements, food,
like the USF have FTA, the UKand Europe have their own
responsible person requirements.
That you have.
Our fun fact actually Amazonhad their own responsible person
sort of service going on inEurope.
They've actually just stoppedit as of 2024.
(11:03):
So a lot of businesses USbusinesses will be affected in
terms of how to operate.
You'll require a differentresponsible person to be able to
sell in Europe, and it'ssomething that Allah has
partners and can help.
It can help with.
So that's the number one step.
So if you're selling a specialtype of product, like
consumables, cosmetics these areproducts that require a label
(11:27):
check you need to check thelabels.
The labels have to have certainstandards and the ingredients.
But if you're selling any other,any product that isn't
classified as consumable or hasany effect to humans, for
example, you're more thanwelcome to go ahead, and the
first step from then will be theVAT side of things, because
(11:49):
that is what gives you theopportunity to access the FBA
centers in Europe, and, in termsof the VAT registration, it's
basically VAT is something thatI have to remind every business
that I speak to.
Vat is attacks, right, it'ssomething, say something that
you're dealing with a taxauthority in, and in this case,
(12:10):
tax authorities, they're basedin different countries that
speak different languages, andthat's the barrier of entry that
I'm speaking.
That spoke about the very start.
It's the different languagesmake a massive difference, right
?
And Adam, how many languages doyou speak?
Adam Shaffer (12:27):
I'm going to say one.
Piero Perera (12:30):
So absolutely, and that's why and that's most
people right English is afantastic language that so many
people speak.
However, tax authorities arenot going to go out of their way
to change their home languageand start speaking taxes in
English.
They're going to speak abouttaxes in their own language.
And that's where a company likea VAR becomes essential,
(12:51):
because you have that expertisein these countries, you have the
offices in these countries andyou also have the language
speakers that can relate anysort of communication that they
have from the tax authority backto the client.
The amount of times I have, sodo you yeah go ahead Now.
Adam Shaffer (13:10):
Do you help the sellers get their VAT
registration?
I mean in these differentcountries.
Piero Perera (13:16):
Yes, absolutely, that's exactly what we do
because, as I said, that hasthat been the number one
requirement that you have tostart selling.
Let's say, adam, your businesswants to start selling in Europe
and we look into theregistration of the VAT numbers,
right.
And then let's say we startwith the UK, we register for UK
VAT and, once registered, youare allowed to start sending
(13:37):
shipments into the UK and startstoring in the FBA centers in
the UK and then, on a quarterlybasis, we would file the sales
that you've done in the UK.
We have to show the UK taxauthority the amount of sales
that you've done.
Adam Shaffer (13:50):
So you're doing all the tax and accounting work
for the seller in these othermarkets, right?
Piero Perera (13:56):
Correct.
Yeah, so as much as there's theregistration.
Once the VAT number isregistered, you have to file the
sales, you have to prove thesales, and that's exactly what
we do on a constant basis.
We have now businesses thathave been with the company over
10 years now, right, and we'vebeen doing that for them, and
it's a very reliable service,simply because you have your own
(14:18):
point of contact as well.
There's a genuine tax compliantconsultant that actually deals
with any complex cases,especially if you were to have
any questions about the taxauthority, and it's all about to
say when, all of a sudden, yourregistered office address, you
get a letter coming from Polandand in the full Polish language,
(14:38):
and unless you have someonePolish in your team, you will
not know what the letters arefirst about.
And that's what you're doing.
You actually send it across toour tax compliant office and
they'll know exactly what theletter is about, simply from
experience and actually beingable to read in the Polish
language as well, which isreally important.
Adam Shaffer (15:00):
What do you see?
Some of the issues with yoursellers.
I mean, some might have alreadytried to start selling in
Europe already and then realisethere's some issues.
So what are some of the thingsyou've had to untangle?
Piero Perera (15:12):
Yeah, a lot of it comes from.
I don't want to say like this,but actually it's not taken as
seriously sometimes because,especially US sellers they're so
used to being on Amazoncom and,as I said, it's been easy to
start.
And then all of a sudden you gothrough, for example, ukvat
(15:33):
registration and this certainproofs that you need.
You need the proof of that.
You have a warehousingagreement with Amazon.
You need a proof of that.
You are ready to ship with ashipping agent, and these things
can be quite tricky.
And then all of a sudden, you'vedecided that you want to go
into the UK.
You've actually decided to senda shipment to the UK, but
(15:56):
you've not done anything for theUKVAT registration to be in
place and all of a sudden, theshipment is on the way.
It comes to customs.
The UK and the UK customs askyou for a VAT number and you
haven't got it yet.
And that's one of the verysimple mistakes that can be done
.
And my number one advice is tonot just obviously come to a
(16:18):
vast, because we can help, butit's all about the prep.
Make sure that you're fullyprepped out and you're ready to
go before you start sending thatfirst shipment, because it
makes a massive difference inthe long run In that case, what
would happen?
Adam Shaffer (16:31):
The customs would hold the products.
Piero Perera (16:33):
Yeah, customs will hold the products.
You have de-marriage.
You have de-marriage costs.
You would also have to backdata quarterly, the VAT filings,
which would be an extra cost aswell.
Amazon will obviously hold theproduct.
You can send it to Amazon.
Amazon can hold the product.
So they'll all of a suddenstart charging you long storage
(16:54):
fees and then your account willdefinitely be blocked because
without a valid UKVAT number,you won't be able to sell from
the Amazon UK FBA to anycustomer in the UK.
And sometimes they can beinterlinked as well.
If, let's say, you're a companywith two different seller
(17:14):
central, because you're sellingtwo different products, two
different brands, all of asudden, just because one UKVAT
is invalid, the whole accountgets blocked and it's a risk
that can happen with Amazon and,yeah, that's one of them.
A lot of the sometimes it's alot of neglect of the VAT side
(17:35):
of things, because I have toremind clients that this is
again, it's a tax right.
You're dealing with taxauthorities and one thing that,
for example, italy has a verystrict tax regime and they all
actually have its own tax police.
Believe it or not, it's calledwhat the definancer right, and
(17:56):
if you're not paying for VAT,they'll actually come to your
house and start knocking on thedoor and say, hey, where are my
VAT payments?
Where are the VAT filings?
What's going on with yourbusiness?
It's it can.
I'm talking about a very smallcase, but I warn my clients that
this has happened and you haveto take it seriously.
So VAT has to be filed properly.
(18:16):
It has to be deregistered ifyou stop using it and, yeah,
it's very important to have acompany like a VAS that can.
You can make sure that that'son top of all of this, because
you should be concentrating onyour business, having the peace
of mind of okay, my job is tocreate a product, create a brand
(18:36):
or sell on Amazon and make asmuch money and grow as possible.
Wasavas gives you the peace ofmind of dealing with all the
taxation and the compliance sideof things.
Adam Shaffer (18:47):
Do you need to?
Obviously, it sounds like youneed to have that registration
for the VAT.
Do you need to also have acompany established in these
markets?
Piero Perera (18:58):
It's a great question.
It's a great question becauseit's something that I get asked
quite regularly, and it's agreat question because the
answer is no.
The VAT is actually the onlyrequirement that you have.
The only time I would advisefor a business to start thinking
about having a differentcompany is if you're changing
operations.
(19:18):
So let's say, you wanteverything in the US and you
have your own US team that'sdealing with the US side of the
sales and your retail sales, andthen you start going to the UK
and your products are beingshipped from somewhere else.
Your production, let's say,it's in Far East Asia and all of
a sudden you want your ownstaff in the UK, you want your
(19:40):
own operations, you want yourown website for the UK.
Then all of a sudden, it startsmaking sense having different
companies in different indifferent countries.
But it is not a necessity.
You do not need a differentcompany.
All you need is that VAT numberto be able to store the goods
in and then, on Amazonespecially, it's something
(20:00):
that's really not required.
You just get the VAT number in.
There are new requirementscoming in in Europe that I'm
going to speak about, called EPR, which is for environmental
taxes.
However, the VAT is the numberone tax code that that you need.
Adam Shaffer (20:14):
But okay, you don't need a company.
No, you just need that so tellus about the environmental stuff
.
Piero Perera (20:21):
Yeah, absolutely so.
It's actually something that'sbeen around a while, but it's
being implemented in themarketplaces.
This is mainly started fromGermany and France.
As of last year it's expandedto Spain, austria, a lot of
countries in the EU when they'rerequiring requiring you for you
to register for a company, forsomething called EPR, which
(20:42):
stands for Extended ProducerResponsibility.
It's the whole idea of thistaxation comes from the fact
that I think us as consumers, webuy the best possible product
that we want right, and we tryand find the best price, the
best quality product.
However, we have no say in howthe product is packaged, the how
the product is made and thecomponents of that product.
(21:05):
The whole law is to pushbusinesses to really start
thinking about the environmentalimpact of your product.
So it's it.
It basically it's not a heavytax.
It's very subtle, but foranyone that is, for example,
selling batteries or electronicproducts that have high plastic
(21:27):
value and have a very short lifecycle, those are the ones that
will not penalize but will betax more.
While, say, an environmentalthinking product that has very
small, very small amount ofpackaging, plastic packaging
inside and is a product that isthere to be used for for the
(21:47):
foreseeable future that would betaxed a lot less.
And those algorithms are doneby weights, by size and and
everything like that the main.
Adam Shaffer (21:56):
on top of the vat there's this other Fee and but
that's not part of the vat.
And does Amazon take that, orhow does?
Piero Perera (22:04):
that work.
Amazon doesn't actually takecare of it simply because it's
not part of of the, of the, the,the retail value of the of the
product.
It's more on our productionvalue.
So let's say you are in theyear of 2023.
You are selling Standardproduct with Amazon packaging
(22:25):
right at the end of the year.
The epr the way epr reportingworks is you have to show the
amount of sales that you've donein france and germany.
Let's say, for example, youhave that proof and out of the
proof, because when you applyfor epr, you you mention how
much packaging there is on theon the product, how much paper
(22:47):
there is on the product.
It's all on a weighted basis.
So let's say you've sold athousand units in 2023.
There is a report that sayswe've sold a thousand unit worth
of cardboard packaging on ourproduct and there's a fee to be
paid related to that.
So Amazon can't really collector omit for it simply because
(23:08):
it's it doesn't really come outfrom the pricing.
But Companies like a vastbasically register you for the
number and can actually do thereporting.
In terms of the cost, I wouldsay it's very minimal.
It's something that is arequirement and it's something
that it was implementing inEurope to really make Businesses
think about the, the value andand and what their product is
(23:31):
doing to to the market, kind ofstart thinking about, okay, how
can we make our packaging moresustainable, how can we reduce
this cost and how can we make it, you know, make the life cycle
of the of the product longer.
And yeah, it's another tax tobe to be thought of, but I
wouldn't use it as a deterrent.
As I said, it's one, it's apart of those barriers of entry
(23:51):
that I didn't, I didn't knowabout that.
Adam Shaffer (23:53):
That's interesting .
And then, and then we talkedabout you don't have to have a
business in the uk, orangegermany.
You're in france, but you needto that, but do you?
I don't know if you do, but youdo?
You need to have a bank accountin these countries.
Piero Perera (24:07):
No, you don't.
You don't.
It's um.
There's a particular casessometimes where, where you might
need it, um.
What I normally recommend ishaving a Multi-currency sort of
wallet.
Companies that can provide,like a bed exchange rate,
sometimes using your standard usbank account that's linked to
your Amazon account, all of asudden, let's say, you're
(24:29):
getting paid in euros in in inEurope.
You're getting paid in In checkcorona in Republic, you're
getting paid in pounds in the uk.
If you're using your standardapp Bank account, amazon will
already charge 4% on the on theexchange rate.
Adam Shaffer (24:49):
So so there's 4% that amazon's taken off the top.
Piero Perera (24:51):
Yes, on the exchange rate.
Yes.
So if you have like anintermediary Bank account, like
a multi-currency system thatactually gives you a favorable
rate, then all of a sudden,amazon is not the middle person
anymore.
They'll still pay you indollars, but your multi-currency
account can give you a betterrate in terms of those exchange
rates, right?
So it is something that thatneeds to be considered, because
(25:14):
you want An account that givesyou the small percentages
Normally, um, there's loads ofcompany paying air or effects.
Well, first, all these topcompanies give you a wallet I'll
satisfy, do it as well,actually and they give you a
much better rate.
That will be between 0.5 to 1.2percent.
So it's a much better exchangerate that you're that you're
(25:38):
dealing with, compared to the 4percent that amazon takes.
Adam Shaffer (25:41):
So if you, if you did, if you did need to open up
a bank account for any reason inthese countries, do you need to
be there?
Because in canada, what's weirdis you have to actually go
there in person to open up theaccount.
Do you need to do that in theuk, or could you do it with you
guys?
Piero Perera (25:56):
Yeah, it's, it can be.
I mean the uk bank accountwould be related to the uk
company, so you would have toopen a uk company to be able to
get a uk uk bank.
Okay so yeah it is verydifficult, and one of the one of
the main examples that popsinto my mind is poland.
Right, so a lot of businessesimportant to poland, because
poland have the some of the bestwarehousing options in in
(26:19):
europe.
And there's something that I'mgoing to speak about in a second
.
Anyway, because Warehousing ineurope becomes a really good
option for regular shippers,because you don't want to just
ship into fba each time.
Right, you have shipping costsand you know you know better
than than than I do with trumplaws importing from china to the
us is expensive.
If you are doing any packagingwork in the us to then reship
(26:41):
out Regularly to europe, itbecomes a really expensive
exercise.
So you have to start thinkingwhat is the most efficient way
of shipping goods into europe aswell.
Shipping into poland is afantastic option simply because,
as I said, the the polishwarehousing system is.
You know it's it's much cheaperto to store in polish, poland
(27:01):
based warehouses.
However, there is a massiveissues in terms of importing
goods into poland, because Eachtime when you're importing into
europe, you'll be charged twothings duties, which are
normally used to by Selling inthe us as well if you're
importing from outside thecountries.
The other thing is import vat.
Right, there's a differencebetween sales vat and import vat
(27:24):
.
I still don't know why they'renamed the same.
But sales vat is charged at thesale of the product.
Import vat is charged at theimportation of the product.
Right, import vat once your vatregistered, it's fully
reclaimable.
So let's say, each time you'reimporting to the uk you get
charged import vat as a business.
(27:45):
As you're registered for vat inthe uk, you can reclaim that
vat.
Adam Shaffer (27:50):
Okay, so you do get to take it back.
Piero Perera (27:52):
Yes, yes, yes, it's a cash flow exercise really
.
It's as you're selling theproducts and or you're re
exporting the products.
Anyway, the the touchauthorities will pay you back,
and I'll speak about this later.
But in some countries, it'sactually not a necessity anymore
.
You can actually save thatmoney, but it's only it's only
doable in some countries.
Right, poland is not one ofthose countries.
(28:14):
You actually require a polishbank account to be able to
reclaim that money.
Right, and to open a Polishbank account, you need to have a
Polish company, and if youdon't have a Polish company, you
have to go to Poland yourselfTo be able to have the chance of
opening a bank account, and thetime taken to open that bank
account can be between three Tosix months and all of a sudden
(28:37):
these are the advices that Inormally give to my clients
become, because it's very easyto go and check.
Okay, this is my easiest option.
This is the it's cheapestcountry for me to ship into.
I can Ship by by rail for allthe way from China to Poland.
I don't have to use a ship.
It's environmentally morefriendly.
However, I have all the issuesnow right.
(28:58):
So One one thing that I speakabout is shipping efficiency,
making sure that you ship intothe right Country.
So I work very closely with asister company to a boss called
Katz, a global logistics, andwhat we do together is Make sure
that whatever businesses,wherever that your manufacturer
(29:19):
is based, is to create theperfect group from that
Manufacturer all the way to anFBA center or to our warehousing
position in Europe.
They gives you the best taxbenefits, they gives you the
least amount of cost and itgives you the most potential to
grow as well.
And these countries differ.
I'd say the UK, france,netherlands are the best
(29:42):
countries to kind of ship intoin Europe.
Adam Shaffer (29:45):
So so you're saying Poland has some
advantages, but it gets a littlecomplicated.
So maybe if you're still, ifyou're, if you're initially
breaking into Europe, try andstay with the.
Piero Perera (29:57):
UK, germany yeah, I wouldn't recommend it.
This in terms of a strategy,what I would say Poland becomes
a really good option for EUestablished businesses.
For example, if you're anItalian company that wants to
look for a very cheap Sort ofWarehousing costs, but your
(30:18):
products are coming, you knowthey're manufactured in China
it's easy to ship from China to,for example, in in in Europe,
into Europe.
However, as an Italian businessthat wants just an Italian
products, that was cheapWarehousing then it's much
easier because once you'reinside of the EU and the 27 EU
countries, there is freemovement of goods.
(30:40):
It's like trading within withinall 50 states of the US is the
same sort of mentality for good.
So I can ship and send aproduct from Italy to Spain at
no duty cost, no tax cost, justsend the product.
Right, so when when it, when itcomes to Poland, that becomes
(31:03):
an issue.
Right, because you can'treclaim the import VAT without a
Polish bank account.
So, as I said, the best countryis to do with and it's very
Important to consider that theUK.
I don't know if you guys know,but there's something called
Brexit happened a few years ago,so the UK is no longer part of
the EU.
I One piece of advice as muchas geographically, the UK is
(31:24):
very close to Europe, now,because of Brexit, the UK it's
almost I would almost tellpeople to consider them as
either UK, as a differentcontinent, simply because the
tax rules are different.
There's different customsrequirements yes, it's still VAT
.
However, it's very different toEurope.
You cannot move goods as easilyas you, as you Used to and as
(31:47):
easily as you can in in the EU.
So the UK has to be treateddifferent and I'd say the best
options for to send to an FBAcenter will probably be France
in in in Europe.
Simply because, when I talkedabout the import VAT side of
things, france, if you're French, you're French VAT registered
(32:07):
business.
France won't actually chargeyou any import VAT when you
import.
So you know the 20% import VATthat I was talking about earlier
.
France, as soon as you have avalid French VAT registration
number, france will not chargeyou that up front.
And that becomes reallyimportant, right?
Because let's say you areimporting a container worth of
(32:28):
goods 100,000 dollars worth ofgoods that you're importing into
Europe Paying 20% up front.
We're talking about another20,000 dollars just for VAT that
you lose for a temporary period.
You can claim it back, but youlose it.
For a business that has highcash flow issues, that becomes a
(32:49):
problem.
So having a country to ship to,like France, where you can ship
into, it's still the same priceto ship into.
However, you don't have to paythat 20,000 dollars.
In that example it becomes areally effective way of kind of
reaching an FBA center.
Adam Shaffer (33:05):
But would it reach an FBA center in the UK or not?
Piero Perera (33:08):
You would have to ship to the UK FBA center right
and this is separately,separately right.
Yeah correct and that's the mainpart of, I think this whole
episode is talking about theprogram on Amazon, which I'm
sure you've heard of by now,Adam Right?
So, and the Pan-EU program isone of the best programs that
(33:28):
probably Amazon have launched.
And Amazon have launched verymany different programs, but
PANIU is still the main one, thebig one that people are part of
.
So the way the PANIU programused to work is the UK obviously
used to be part of the PANIUprogram before Brexit, but now
the PANIU program is made of sixcountries.
(33:49):
It's Germany, france, spain,italy and It's the UK, Spain,
Italy, Poland and Czech Republic.
Okay, there are potential forother countries to come into
Sweden.
We'll come into it very shortly, I reckon, because there is a
Swedish FBA as well.
So will Belgium and Netherlandsat some point, but for now it's
still those six main countries.
(34:15):
The way that the PANIU works isquite brilliant, actually.
So the PANIU of these sixcountries you must have VAT
registrations.
If you have VAT registrationsin all of those six countries,
all you have to do as a businessis ship into one particular FBA
centre, let's say, in this case, france.
As I said, it's the best one.
If you're shipping to France,amazon will collect everything
(34:38):
in France.
And then you're going to ask mehey, do I have to ship to every
other country?
No, because, being part of thePan-EU program, what Amazon does
is, according to the algorithm,they redistribute that to every
single country you're VATregistered in, similar to the US
, and each state.
Amazon will collect to theirnearest FBA center and then
(34:59):
distribute that wherever it cango.
But in Europe, the onlydifference is that you must be
registered for VAT in thosecountries, and the best thing
about it is that you don'tnecessarily have to go for all
six.
You can pick and choose thecountries that you want to go
into.
Normally, most businesses willstart with Germany and France,
because those are the twobiggest countries and all you
(35:22):
have to do again ship intoFrance and then it interlocks
between France and Germany.
There's many businesses thatonly start with Germany because
Germany is the biggest market inthe EU, but, as I said, then
when you start doing that, youget the local fee in Germany.
You can still sell into othercountries in Europe as well.
However, you get the bestbenefits by being part of all
(35:45):
six countries in the Pan-EU, youget the best fulfillment rates.
You get the spread of productsin many countries as possible.
You can reach countries that areoutside those six countries as
well.
For example, a lot of Germanbusinesses are selling to
Austria.
Austria customers order quite alot from Germany.
(36:06):
Dutch-based clients will orderfrom France, for example.
So there is a big network inEurope that you can be part of.
By the same time, you can pickand choose and you can have a
gradual growth in something thatI speak about quite a lot.
So you can just start with theUK and Germany.
It's just that you're not goingto have the best benefits.
(36:27):
However, it's a great way ofseeing what the potential is.
Adam Shaffer (36:33):
I mean it's amazing.
So the UK not to get political,but they really, when they went
Brexit, they were part of thisand now they're not.
So now it's like its own, likeyou said, continent and it's
treated 100% solo, where youwere getting the benefit of
Europe.
So maybe it's not the UK youstart with, maybe it is Germany,
france.
Announcement (36:53):
Because you're there, you can spread out faster
.
Adam Shaffer (36:55):
I mean, that's interesting and wow, I mean I
guess stuff happens.
Piero Perera (37:01):
You see the language bases.
I mean the UK is still afantastic market.
I'm an Amazon Prime consumermyself in the UK market and I
almost relatively only buy onAmazon because I'm the type of
consumer that wants the productthe next day, right, so it's
still a fantastic market.
It makes sense for a lot of USbusinesses.
But the European market hasit's still growing.
(37:24):
It still has so much potentialand I advise businesses to kind
of start taking the steps now,because the rewards will come
later.
Adam Shaffer (37:34):
How long does it take to get going?
So say, it's December and Iwant to start thinking about New
Year.
I want to launch UK or Germany.
How long does it take to get?
Piero Perera (37:46):
this going?
Yeah, it's a great question,and it's a fantastic question
simply because I get asked quitea lot and again you have to.
I have to mention that we aredealing with different tax
authority authorities anddifferent ways of working Right,
and there's differentrequirements to register the VAT
number as well.
In the UK, you have to provethat you have your Amazon store
(38:06):
from set up.
Then, instead Italy, you onlyhave to provide the directors
passport and they give you a VATnumber in like a week, but
different countries havedifferent requirements and
different timelines.
I would say the overall,depending on the country.
I will probably give you two tothree months to start with.
If you were to start today, Iwould probably start planning
(38:28):
for a Q2 launch in the UK andGermany, Because there's many
things that come in between.
There's the Christmas periodnow the festive periods in the
US, where it can be quite busyas well, because it's the most
important quarter for anye-commerce business and then you
(38:48):
have to start planning thedocuments that you require and
then we have to submit it to thetax authority and we have to
make sure that nothing is wrong.
If anything goes wrong, we haveto communicate with the tax
authority to make sure we get it.
So I would say a Q2 launch islikely.
So I always warn businesses twoto three months is about right
to start thinking about it andthen it's.
(39:10):
I can imagine for a business itbecoming quite tough because
you have to learn yourproduction, your manufacturing,
your buying and making sure thateverything is sorted.
Hence why I always say aboutthe barriser entry to start
might be a little bit difficult,but once you're in, you're in
type of thing.
Adam Shaffer (39:28):
Wow.
So you know it sounded itsounds complicated.
So we talked about VAT.
We talked about duties importVAT outside of France and we
talked about this environmentalduty or tax that they have, and
so it sounds kind of scary.
(39:48):
So you know, I think that's whyI don't want people to get
scared.
I want them to say it'scomplicated and I need a partner
, and I need to find a partnerlike Avast to work with out
there, because once I do getthis going, the machine works.
It's just you got to.
It's not as simple as justlighting up a store in the US.
(40:10):
So I want people to understandthat Avast exists, because this
is an issue that most e-commerceoutside of Amazon if you want
to do Shopify or any of theseother e-commerce platforms in
Europe you need this kind ofhelp.
So I think it's incrediblyimportant that pan-Euro
(40:30):
fulfillment sounds like.
You know that sounds like adream.
So I think that's somethingpeople should think about and I
think they should talk tosomebody like you to think about
what their strategy is beforethey get going.
Now, it's great if somebody'salready in trouble you're there,
but I think it's always betterto start better from the start,
before you're there, where youkind of have a clean slate.
(40:51):
So I think you know listenersshould talk to you, your company
or company like your company,before they take that step and
light up that first queue onAmazon in Europe or the UK.
So, coming close to the endhere, I wanted to just pick your
brain on.
You know what was like one ofthe biggest wins you guys had.
(41:16):
You're working with one of yourpartners.
What's something that youreally did a great job and help
them out and get out of somekind of issue.
Piero Perera (41:23):
Yeah, I would say I'll say on, one of the best
stories that I have is it's ourUS based client that that have
massive success in the US and Ireally enjoyed the Did I write
actually.
I met in person actually.
I met him at Amazon Acceleratein 22 the previous, the very
first one and I met him inperson again in the UK as well,
(41:48):
and what they did best was tonot rush anything, to be as calm
as possible and take the, thewhole strategy by time.
This nine figure seller in inthe US that's looking to, you
know, replicate somewhat inEurope and what they did and the
(42:09):
main issue that we saw there istheir skews, because they have
25,000 plus to pick accordinglyto what suited to the market.
It's very important.
That's where, as I said, browncompanies like helium 10 come in
and play a massive role,because they kind of really show
you what type of productactually suits best.
And then it's splitting thestrategy and the starting
(42:31):
strategy right.
So how are you planning onshipping?
What is the shipping method?
If everything is coming fromChina, what is the most
cost-effective way of doing so?
If you're sending a container,how do we split the container if
you spend, if you want to split, if you have enough amounts to
be able to send to containers,then have definitely split one
(42:53):
to the UK because the UK marketstill has massive demand, and
then split the other containertowards Europe Because of double
taxation side of things as well.
So that was massive because alot of businesses, I think,
still Ship towards the UK.
They have to pay VAT and dutiesthere and then they take some
of their stock and they ship itto Europe where they have to pay
(43:14):
VAT and Duties again.
So there's a loss of moneythere in that case.
So if we actually split theshipment, in that in that sense
you only you don't pay VAT inEngland, in the UK, simply
because there is a scheme, justlike France, where you don't pay
In port VAT and we ship intoFrance.
Well, actually in this case weshipped it to Netherlands
(43:36):
because the Netherlands anothercountry that has that same
option it's not part of the panEU program, but this particular
client used a 3pL solution inEurope because, as I said, they
have many skews and they want tosome long-term storage as well
and a ship less, as less aspossible.
So sorting that whole strategyout for them to start, and now
(43:58):
they're finally on pan EUprogram.
They have all the VAT numbers.
They're probably the wholestrategy to launch, probably to
come around I want to say six tonine months.
But they did it very slowly,they took their time and they do
it properly and now thecontainers have arrived, they're
starting selling in Europe andthey're already seeing great
(44:19):
results.
Obviously, to match theAmazoncom side of things, it
will take its time, but they'vedone a great job in terms of
kind of listening to the advicethat a boss gave them and now
they're finally starting toReally to really see the perks
of all the hard work there'sbeen over the past six months.
Now, again, that still sounds alittle bit scary.
(44:39):
So what I really want to, whatI really want to push, is it
doesn't necessarily have to belike that, it doesn't have to be
container stuff.
He has it's, it's.
It can be a gradual growth, asI've always said.
Let's start with the UK beingone of the one of the best
countries to go into, becauseit's easy because of the
language side of things.
Start from the UK and you sendone parcel of one particular
(45:00):
skew and all of a sudden you seethat success and then we build
that gradually, but the VAT sideof things is still the number
one thing that we need to lookinto so.
Adam Shaffer (45:09):
So with that, and you're kind of getting to my my
last and final question, but canyou, piero, can you give the
listeners of North America Finaladvice on Looking at Europe as
a way to expand?
Piero Perera (45:24):
Yeah, absolutely for me.
What I really want to push isthe opportunity side of things.
Right, it's.
It's a fantastic opportunityfor you to replicate what you're
already doing.
The US.
Ignore the barriers of entry,because a company like a boss
will help you.
There's other companies as wellthat can help you kind of get
you all of those requirementsfor you to be able to start
selling in Europe.
And once in Europe, you need tounderstand okay, where, where
(45:48):
can I maximize profitability?
So my number one advice is toget in touch with someone and
myself that strategizes forbusinesses, especially to launch
.
You can do so violin tin or myemail at pierrot up Pereira at a
boss group, calm and yeah, mywhole job is to make each and
every business that I speak toSucceed as much as possible in
(46:10):
Europe and make the wholeStarting and those barriers of
entry that I've spoken about alittle bit less scary.
So that's my awesome.
Adam Shaffer (46:18):
Awesome.
So it sounds scary a Voskin inPiero and the team there take
the Scariness out of it.
But you know, expanding onAmazon especially, but with your
e-commerce business, butexpanding into other markets is
a great way to grow.
It definitely adds to thecomplexity and that's why having
partners helps, but I dorecommend it.
(46:39):
I think it's something that youdo step by step and and thank
you very much, piero, for youradvice today really super
important and helpful.
Piero Perera (46:49):
Hey, thank you so much for having me.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you.
Announcement (46:54):
Thank you for watching another episode of the
Planet Amazon podcast, where wetalk all things Amazon.
If you want to learn about howto Accelerate your sales on
Amazon, visit Phelps United'swebsite at Phelps United comms
you.
Welcome to the Planet Amazon podcast with Adam
Shaffer, where we explore theworld of Amazon and other
e-commerce marketplaces.
Join us as we delve into thelatest strategies and tactics
for successful selling on theworld's largest online
marketplace.
Adam Shaffer (00:18):
Hello, I'm Adam Shaffer, and welcome to the
Planet Amazon podcast, where wetalk about all things Amazon,
and today we're going to talkabout something that's, you know
, on top of mind for lots of thesellers on Amazon, and that is
expanding internationally.
And those that are in NorthAmerica always want to be able
to grow, and it's easy to growwith Amazon, but there's
(00:40):
definitely some things you needto know before you break out of
North America, and so today Ihave with us a great guest that
is really an expert ininternational expansion.
His name is Piero Perera andhe's the manager of growth and
strategy for a AVASK.
They're a firm of tax expertswho specialize in global
(01:03):
e-commerce expansion,international taxation,
accountancy, business advisoryand consultancy services, but
they are cross-border VATexperts and they provide
tax-compliance advice to helpbrands grow into new
international marketplaces.
What's also cool is Piero isthe host of his own podcast
(01:25):
called the On Line Hustlepodcast.
Welcome to the show, Piero.
How are you?
Piero Perera (01:30):
Hey, adam, adam, thank you so much.
Yeah, very well, thank you somuch.
How are you?
Adam Shaffer (01:34):
I'm doing okay and you know I'm here in Miami but
based in the US, you know,servicing the US and Canada and
Mexico.
You tell us a little bit aboutyou, where you're based, and
then let's talk about your firmand what you guys do.
Piero Perera (01:48):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I'm in, actually, you know, abeautiful studio at AVASK
Studios.
It's where I record the onlineHustle podcast as well.
But, yeah, avast headquartersare based in Southampton, the
South Coast of the UK, as youmay tell by my British accent.
Yeah, that's where we're based,but the intro was absolutely
perfect.
That's exactly the things we dohere at Avast.
(02:10):
My job personally is to createlaunch strategies, especially
for businesses that I've, youknow, have incredible success in
the US and kind of want toreplicate that in Europe and in
other platforms, especially onAmazon, right?
So, yeah, by doing that, I makesure that, from the very start
(02:30):
to the very finish, we geteverything that is sourced and
everything that is required tobe able to not just enter but
also succeed in Europe.
Adam Shaffer (02:38):
So what's cool is I mean I met you guys at the
most recent Amazon Accelerateconference in Seattle and it's a
great show.
If you're a seller and youdon't go to that show, you
should.
But I mean I go there and Ilearn so much and you get to
meet a lot of the Amazon people.
But you get to meet all theseservice providers that are part
(02:59):
of the ecosystem, and Avast wasthere.
But what was really cool isthat they had international
breakout sessions and Amazon wastalking about getting into
Canada, getting into Brazil, newMexico, but also how do you get
into Amia and Asia, which arereally sizable markets for them,
and it was probably the mosttrafficked breakout of all the
(03:24):
breakouts at the AmazonAccelerate.
So I know there's a huge demandfor people saying how do I break
out of my bubble?
So I think it would be great tomaybe talk about how do you do
it, like I know it's kind of theboring part of it.
Everybody just wants to get onand start selling stuff.
But tell us like some of theissues with going, say, from US
(03:47):
to the UK, us to Germany, us toFrance what do you need to worry
about as a seller?
Piero Perera (03:53):
Yeah, so for the internationalization of
everything, I would say there'sa massive difference between
Amazoncom and all the otherAmazon markets.
On Amazon.
com, I always say the barriersof entry are very low, so it's
very easy for a business to evenstart on Amazon and start
selling Not necessarily besuccessful, but at least start
(04:13):
selling.
It's very, very easy.
Whilst in, especially theEuropean markets that you
mentioned, I always say there'sthe barriers, entry can be quite
high, but once those barriersof entries have been beaten,
there's a massive opportunity inthe whole continent because
there is it's a very hungry sortof consumer base that's ready
(04:33):
to purchase products and qualityproducts as well, especially
American based products as wellthat are there.
And yeah, those barriers ofentries is what probably I'll be
speaking about very soon.
Adam Shaffer (04:45):
Yeah, I mean so when I think about selling in
the UK, because for me it's easy, I understand the language.
It's more, for the most part, Ido anyway, and so I pretend.
I want to not pretend I do.
I do.
I want to sell in the UK and sowe're going to sell in the UK.
I'm approved to do it.
(05:07):
I could turn it on, but whatare some of the things I need to
worry about and it's the thingsI hate to think about, which is
like getting a VAT number andgetting registered and dealing
with the taxes, and that's whereyou guys come in and that's
where I am not going to be toogood.
So tell us about how it works.
(05:28):
What does sellers have to do?
Piero Perera (05:30):
Yeah, absolutely so.
From the very first point.
I would say, before we even gointo the VATs I think as much as
English is the same language Iwould definitely think about
checking the ability of yourproduct to be sold in the UK,
simply because there is amazingproducts such as Helium 10,
jungle Scout, that give you theopportunity to have a look at
(05:53):
how successful that product canbe and how your competitors or
similar products are doingcurrently in those markets.
And you select the UK sellerthings and you have a look.
Once you check that and youobviously know it's a feasible
option, I'd say nine out of 10products that sell well in the
US will sell well in the UK aswell.
So after doing that check, it'sthe VAT, the famous three
(06:15):
letters that I speak about on adaily basis, and VAT stands for
Value Added Tax.
It's basically the equivalentof sales tax in the US.
The only difference in the UKand Europe is normally, when
someone checks out a product inthe US, sales tax gets added at
(06:35):
the end, whilst in Europe, valueAdded Tax is included in that
retail price.
So the price that a customer isseeing in Europe is the price
that they will be paying intotal.
There's no other taxes to beadded.
The retail price is 40 countsor 40 euros.
The tax is included inclusivein that price and that's the
(07:00):
main difference I would say fordealing from Amazoncom to any
other Amazon in Europe.
Adam Shaffer (07:07):
So you're saying that.
You're saying like so if I'mselling something in the US for
$20, it's $20 plus the tax whenyou check out.
But in the UK that $20 includesthe tax, so you probably need
to increase the price of theproduct right?
Piero Perera (07:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
And the main thing in Europe isthat the rate isn't the same
for every country.
So for the UK is 20%, forGermany is 19%, italy is 22%,
hungary is 27%.
So all of a sudden, your priceactually can fluctuate.
Well, your profitability has tofluctuate accordingly, so you
have to be very careful.
(07:44):
It's something that I alwayswarn my US business that start
selling in the UK that, yes,your prices have to change.
They have to be a little bithigher in Europe for sure to
make sure that you cover thatcost, because Amazon Collector
remit.
Just like they do in the US forsales tax, they'll do the same
for Europe.
But all of a sudden you seeAmazon collecting quite a lot
(08:06):
more than you're used to.
And, yeah, it's because youhave to put your price up, but
yeah, the value is there.
Adam Shaffer (08:13):
So you're saying like so in the US because we
charge it extra tax.
We work on the selling price.
Here in the UK or Germany, it'sthe selling price and Amazon's
going to take a piece of that,their fee plus they're going to
take the VAD.
Is that what you're saying,correct?
Piero Perera (08:32):
Yeah, Amazon takes care of everything, which is a
fantastic advantage compared tomany, you know, selling on your
own website.
You know you have to take careof that yourself as well, On a
monthly or quarterly basis.
You would have to pay each taxauthority as well, on a constant
basis, right?
Because Amazon kind of collectsand remits everything for you.
So you only need a company likeAvast to prove that the sales
(08:55):
that you're doing, becausethat's a requirement that each
country has and it's somethingthat I'm going to speak about in
a second.
But, yeah, the VAT side ofthings it's a registration that
you must have and the number onerule I say to all my clients,
everyone that comes through toAvast it's all very related to
FBA, and if you're in afulfilling by Amazon and if
(09:18):
you're planning on storing goodsin a fulfillment center in
Amazon in a particular countryin Europe, you must be
registered for VAT in thatcountry.
That is the number one triggerfor VAT, Because even right now,
you could possibly sell yourproducts from the US all the way
to Europe.
However, what are theseadvantages?
(09:39):
You're not going to be anAmazon Prime seller.
You're going to have to pay forshipping a higher shipping fee
and there's still limitations interms of how you can actually
sell the products.
I have a lot of US businesseslooking to the European option.
All of a sudden, the marginsget cut simply because they're
not physically in Europe, andthat's a massive difference
(10:03):
maker really.
So, yeah, it's the number onetrigger.
If you're planning a story inthe FBA center UK, Germany,
France, any of these countriesyou must register for VAT.
Adam Shaffer (10:13):
So is that step number one.
Walk us through the process.
Piero Perera (10:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
As I said, the process for meon a business basis is
researching the product andmaking sure that there is
competition and the product hasits own positioning in these
countries right.
Once you have done that, thefirst thing is probably looking
at the product compliance.
So product compliance isunderstanding whether your
product is actually legallyallowed to be sold in these
(10:42):
countries.
So, for example, cosmetics haveits own requirements, food,
like the USF have FTA, the UKand Europe have their own
responsible person requirements.
That you have.
Our fun fact actually Amazonhad their own responsible person
sort of service going on inEurope.
They've actually just stoppedit as of 2024.
(11:03):
So a lot of businesses USbusinesses will be affected in
terms of how to operate.
You'll require a differentresponsible person to be able to
sell in Europe, and it'ssomething that Allah has
partners and can help.
It can help with.
So that's the number one step.
So if you're selling a specialtype of product, like
consumables, cosmetics these areproducts that require a label
(11:27):
check you need to check thelabels.
The labels have to have certainstandards and the ingredients.
But if you're selling any other,any product that isn't
classified as consumable or hasany effect to humans, for
example, you're more thanwelcome to go ahead, and the
first step from then will be theVAT side of things, because
(11:49):
that is what gives you theopportunity to access the FBA
centers in Europe, and, in termsof the VAT registration, it's
basically VAT is something thatI have to remind every business
that I speak to.
Vat is attacks, right, it'ssomething, say something that
you're dealing with a taxauthority in, and in this case,
(12:10):
tax authorities, they're basedin different countries that
speak different languages, andthat's the barrier of entry that
I'm speaking.
That spoke about the very start.
It's the different languagesmake a massive difference, right
?
And Adam, how many languages doyou speak?
Adam Shaffer (12:27):
I'm going to say one.
Piero Perera (12:30):
So absolutely, and that's why and that's most
people right English is afantastic language that so many
people speak.
However, tax authorities arenot going to go out of their way
to change their home languageand start speaking taxes in
English.
They're going to speak abouttaxes in their own language.
And that's where a company likea VAR becomes essential,
(12:51):
because you have that expertisein these countries, you have the
offices in these countries andyou also have the language
speakers that can relate anysort of communication that they
have from the tax authority backto the client.
The amount of times I have, sodo you yeah go ahead Now.
Adam Shaffer (13:10):
Do you help the sellers get their VAT
registration?
I mean in these differentcountries.
Piero Perera (13:16):
Yes, absolutely, that's exactly what we do
because, as I said, that hasthat been the number one
requirement that you have tostart selling.
Let's say, adam, your businesswants to start selling in Europe
and we look into theregistration of the VAT numbers,
right.
And then let's say we startwith the UK, we register for UK
VAT and, once registered, youare allowed to start sending
(13:37):
shipments into the UK and startstoring in the FBA centers in
the UK and then, on a quarterlybasis, we would file the sales
that you've done in the UK.
We have to show the UK taxauthority the amount of sales
that you've done.
Adam Shaffer (13:50):
So you're doing all the tax and accounting work
for the seller in these othermarkets, right?
Piero Perera (13:56):
Correct.
Yeah, so as much as there's theregistration.
Once the VAT number isregistered, you have to file the
sales, you have to prove thesales, and that's exactly what
we do on a constant basis.
We have now businesses thathave been with the company over
10 years now, right, and we'vebeen doing that for them, and
it's a very reliable service,simply because you have your own
(14:18):
point of contact as well.
There's a genuine tax compliantconsultant that actually deals
with any complex cases,especially if you were to have
any questions about the taxauthority, and it's all about to
say when, all of a sudden, yourregistered office address, you
get a letter coming from Polandand in the full Polish language,
(14:38):
and unless you have someonePolish in your team, you will
not know what the letters arefirst about.
And that's what you're doing.
You actually send it across toour tax compliant office and
they'll know exactly what theletter is about, simply from
experience and actually beingable to read in the Polish
language as well, which isreally important.
Adam Shaffer (15:00):
What do you see?
Some of the issues with yoursellers.
I mean, some might have alreadytried to start selling in
Europe already and then realisethere's some issues.
So what are some of the thingsyou've had to untangle?
Piero Perera (15:12):
Yeah, a lot of it comes from.
I don't want to say like this,but actually it's not taken as
seriously sometimes because,especially US sellers they're so
used to being on Amazoncom and,as I said, it's been easy to
start.
And then all of a sudden you gothrough, for example, ukvat
(15:33):
registration and this certainproofs that you need.
You need the proof of that.
You have a warehousingagreement with Amazon.
You need a proof of that.
You are ready to ship with ashipping agent, and these things
can be quite tricky.
And then all of a sudden, you'vedecided that you want to go
into the UK.
You've actually decided to senda shipment to the UK, but
(15:56):
you've not done anything for theUKVAT registration to be in
place and all of a sudden, theshipment is on the way.
It comes to customs.
The UK and the UK customs askyou for a VAT number and you
haven't got it yet.
And that's one of the verysimple mistakes that can be done
.
And my number one advice is tonot just obviously come to a
(16:18):
vast, because we can help, butit's all about the prep.
Make sure that you're fullyprepped out and you're ready to
go before you start sending thatfirst shipment, because it
makes a massive difference inthe long run In that case, what
would happen?
Adam Shaffer (16:31):
The customs would hold the products.
Piero Perera (16:33):
Yeah, customs will hold the products.
You have de-marriage.
You have de-marriage costs.
You would also have to backdata quarterly, the VAT filings,
which would be an extra cost aswell.
Amazon will obviously hold theproduct.
You can send it to Amazon.
Amazon can hold the product.
So they'll all of a suddenstart charging you long storage
(16:54):
fees and then your account willdefinitely be blocked because
without a valid UKVAT number,you won't be able to sell from
the Amazon UK FBA to anycustomer in the UK.
And sometimes they can beinterlinked as well.
If, let's say, you're a companywith two different seller
(17:14):
central, because you're sellingtwo different products, two
different brands, all of asudden, just because one UKVAT
is invalid, the whole accountgets blocked and it's a risk
that can happen with Amazon and,yeah, that's one of them.
A lot of the sometimes it's alot of neglect of the VAT side
(17:35):
of things, because I have toremind clients that this is
again, it's a tax right.
You're dealing with taxauthorities and one thing that,
for example, italy has a verystrict tax regime and they all
actually have its own tax police.
Believe it or not, it's calledwhat the definancer right, and
(17:56):
if you're not paying for VAT,they'll actually come to your
house and start knocking on thedoor and say, hey, where are my
VAT payments?
Where are the VAT filings?
What's going on with yourbusiness?
It's it can.
I'm talking about a very smallcase, but I warn my clients that
this has happened and you haveto take it seriously.
So VAT has to be filed properly.
(18:16):
It has to be deregistered ifyou stop using it and, yeah,
it's very important to have acompany like a VAS that can.
You can make sure that that'son top of all of this, because
you should be concentrating onyour business, having the peace
of mind of okay, my job is tocreate a product, create a brand
(18:36):
or sell on Amazon and make asmuch money and grow as possible.
Wasavas gives you the peace ofmind of dealing with all the
taxation and the compliance sideof things.
Adam Shaffer (18:47):
Do you need to?
Obviously, it sounds like youneed to have that registration
for the VAT.
Do you need to also have acompany established in these
markets?
Piero Perera (18:58):
It's a great question.
It's a great question becauseit's something that I get asked
quite regularly, and it's agreat question because the
answer is no.
The VAT is actually the onlyrequirement that you have.
The only time I would advisefor a business to start thinking
about having a differentcompany is if you're changing
operations.
(19:18):
So let's say, you wanteverything in the US and you
have your own US team that'sdealing with the US side of the
sales and your retail sales, andthen you start going to the UK
and your products are beingshipped from somewhere else.
Your production, let's say,it's in Far East Asia and all of
a sudden you want your ownstaff in the UK, you want your
(19:40):
own operations, you want yourown website for the UK.
Then all of a sudden, it startsmaking sense having different
companies in different indifferent countries.
But it is not a necessity.
You do not need a differentcompany.
All you need is that VAT numberto be able to store the goods
in and then, on Amazonespecially, it's something
(20:00):
that's really not required.
You just get the VAT number in.
There are new requirementscoming in in Europe that I'm
going to speak about, called EPR, which is for environmental
taxes.
However, the VAT is the numberone tax code that that you need.
Adam Shaffer (20:14):
But okay, you don't need a company.
No, you just need that so tellus about the environmental stuff
.
Piero Perera (20:21):
Yeah, absolutely so.
It's actually something that'sbeen around a while, but it's
being implemented in themarketplaces.
This is mainly started fromGermany and France.
As of last year it's expandedto Spain, austria, a lot of
countries in the EU when they'rerequiring requiring you for you
to register for a company, forsomething called EPR, which
(20:42):
stands for Extended ProducerResponsibility.
It's the whole idea of thistaxation comes from the fact
that I think us as consumers, webuy the best possible product
that we want right, and we tryand find the best price, the
best quality product.
However, we have no say in howthe product is packaged, the how
the product is made and thecomponents of that product.
(21:05):
The whole law is to pushbusinesses to really start
thinking about the environmentalimpact of your product.
So it's it.
It basically it's not a heavytax.
It's very subtle, but foranyone that is, for example,
selling batteries or electronicproducts that have high plastic
(21:27):
value and have a very short lifecycle, those are the ones that
will not penalize but will betax more.
While, say, an environmentalthinking product that has very
small, very small amount ofpackaging, plastic packaging
inside and is a product that isthere to be used for for the
(21:47):
foreseeable future that would betaxed a lot less.
And those algorithms are doneby weights, by size and and
everything like that the main.
Adam Shaffer (21:56):
on top of the vat there's this other Fee and but
that's not part of the vat.
And does Amazon take that, orhow does?
Piero Perera (22:04):
that work.
Amazon doesn't actually takecare of it simply because it's
not part of of the, of the, the,the retail value of the of the
product.
It's more on our productionvalue.
So let's say you are in theyear of 2023.
You are selling Standardproduct with Amazon packaging
(22:25):
right at the end of the year.
The epr the way epr reportingworks is you have to show the
amount of sales that you've donein france and germany.
Let's say, for example, youhave that proof and out of the
proof, because when you applyfor epr, you you mention how
much packaging there is on theon the product, how much paper
(22:47):
there is on the product.
It's all on a weighted basis.
So let's say you've sold athousand units in 2023.
There is a report that sayswe've sold a thousand unit worth
of cardboard packaging on ourproduct and there's a fee to be
paid related to that.
So Amazon can't really collector omit for it simply because
(23:08):
it's it doesn't really come outfrom the pricing.
But Companies like a vastbasically register you for the
number and can actually do thereporting.
In terms of the cost, I wouldsay it's very minimal.
It's something that is arequirement and it's something
that it was implementing inEurope to really make Businesses
think about the, the value andand and what their product is
(23:31):
doing to to the market, kind ofstart thinking about, okay, how
can we make our packaging moresustainable, how can we reduce
this cost and how can we make it, you know, make the life cycle
of the of the product longer.
And yeah, it's another tax tobe to be thought of, but I
wouldn't use it as a deterrent.
As I said, it's one, it's apart of those barriers of entry
(23:51):
that I didn't, I didn't knowabout that.
Adam Shaffer (23:53):
That's interesting .
And then, and then we talkedabout you don't have to have a
business in the uk, orangegermany.
You're in france, but you needto that, but do you?
I don't know if you do, but youdo?
You need to have a bank accountin these countries.
Piero Perera (24:07):
No, you don't.
You don't.
It's um.
There's a particular casessometimes where, where you might
need it, um.
What I normally recommend ishaving a Multi-currency sort of
wallet.
Companies that can provide,like a bed exchange rate,
sometimes using your standard usbank account that's linked to
your Amazon account, all of asudden, let's say, you're
(24:29):
getting paid in euros in in inEurope.
You're getting paid in In checkcorona in Republic, you're
getting paid in pounds in the uk.
If you're using your standardapp Bank account, amazon will
already charge 4% on the on theexchange rate.
Adam Shaffer (24:49):
So so there's 4% that amazon's taken off the top.
Piero Perera (24:51):
Yes, on the exchange rate.
Yes.
So if you have like anintermediary Bank account, like
a multi-currency system thatactually gives you a favorable
rate, then all of a sudden,amazon is not the middle person
anymore.
They'll still pay you indollars, but your multi-currency
account can give you a betterrate in terms of those exchange
rates, right?
So it is something that thatneeds to be considered, because
(25:14):
you want An account that givesyou the small percentages
Normally, um, there's loads ofcompany paying air or effects.
Well, first, all these topcompanies give you a wallet I'll
satisfy, do it as well,actually and they give you a
much better rate.
That will be between 0.5 to 1.2percent.
So it's a much better exchangerate that you're that you're
(25:38):
dealing with, compared to the 4percent that amazon takes.
Adam Shaffer (25:41):
So if you, if you did, if you did need to open up
a bank account for any reason inthese countries, do you need to
be there?
Because in canada, what's weirdis you have to actually go
there in person to open up theaccount.
Do you need to do that in theuk, or could you do it with you
guys?
Piero Perera (25:56):
Yeah, it's, it can be.
I mean the uk bank accountwould be related to the uk
company, so you would have toopen a uk company to be able to
get a uk uk bank.
Okay so yeah it is verydifficult, and one of the one of
the main examples that popsinto my mind is poland.
Right, so a lot of businessesimportant to poland, because
poland have the some of the bestwarehousing options in in
(26:19):
europe.
And there's something that I'mgoing to speak about in a second
.
Anyway, because Warehousing ineurope becomes a really good
option for regular shippers,because you don't want to just
ship into fba each time.
Right, you have shipping costsand you know you know better
than than than I do with trumplaws importing from china to the
us is expensive.
If you are doing any packagingwork in the us to then reship
(26:41):
out Regularly to europe, itbecomes a really expensive
exercise.
So you have to start thinkingwhat is the most efficient way
of shipping goods into europe aswell.
Shipping into poland is afantastic option simply because,
as I said, the the polishwarehousing system is.
You know it's it's much cheaperto to store in polish, poland
(27:01):
based warehouses.
However, there is a massiveissues in terms of importing
goods into poland, because Eachtime when you're importing into
europe, you'll be charged twothings duties, which are
normally used to by Selling inthe us as well if you're
importing from outside thecountries.
The other thing is import vat.
Right, there's a differencebetween sales vat and import vat
(27:24):
.
I still don't know why they'renamed the same.
But sales vat is charged at thesale of the product.
Import vat is charged at theimportation of the product.
Right, import vat once your vatregistered, it's fully
reclaimable.
So let's say, each time you'reimporting to the uk you get
charged import vat as a business.
(27:45):
As you're registered for vat inthe uk, you can reclaim that
vat.
Adam Shaffer (27:50):
Okay, so you do get to take it back.
Piero Perera (27:52):
Yes, yes, yes, it's a cash flow exercise really
.
It's as you're selling theproducts and or you're re
exporting the products.
Anyway, the the touchauthorities will pay you back,
and I'll speak about this later.
But in some countries, it'sactually not a necessity anymore
.
You can actually save thatmoney, but it's only it's only
doable in some countries.
Right, poland is not one ofthose countries.
(28:14):
You actually require a polishbank account to be able to
reclaim that money.
Right, and to open a Polishbank account, you need to have a
Polish company, and if youdon't have a Polish company, you
have to go to Poland yourselfTo be able to have the chance of
opening a bank account, and thetime taken to open that bank
account can be between three Tosix months and all of a sudden
(28:37):
these are the advices that Inormally give to my clients
become, because it's very easyto go and check.
Okay, this is my easiest option.
This is the it's cheapestcountry for me to ship into.
I can Ship by by rail for allthe way from China to Poland.
I don't have to use a ship.
It's environmentally morefriendly.
However, I have all the issuesnow right.
(28:58):
So One one thing that I speakabout is shipping efficiency,
making sure that you ship intothe right Country.
So I work very closely with asister company to a boss called
Katz, a global logistics, andwhat we do together is Make sure
that whatever businesses,wherever that your manufacturer
(29:19):
is based, is to create theperfect group from that
Manufacturer all the way to anFBA center or to our warehousing
position in Europe.
They gives you the best taxbenefits, they gives you the
least amount of cost and itgives you the most potential to
grow as well.
And these countries differ.
I'd say the UK, france,netherlands are the best
(29:42):
countries to kind of ship intoin Europe.
Adam Shaffer (29:45):
So so you're saying Poland has some
advantages, but it gets a littlecomplicated.
So maybe if you're still, ifyou're, if you're initially
breaking into Europe, try andstay with the.
Piero Perera (29:57):
UK, germany yeah, I wouldn't recommend it.
This in terms of a strategy,what I would say Poland becomes
a really good option for EUestablished businesses.
For example, if you're anItalian company that wants to
look for a very cheap Sort ofWarehousing costs, but your
(30:18):
products are coming, you knowthey're manufactured in China
it's easy to ship from China to,for example, in in in Europe,
into Europe.
However, as an Italian businessthat wants just an Italian
products, that was cheapWarehousing then it's much
easier because once you'reinside of the EU and the 27 EU
countries, there is freemovement of goods.
(30:40):
It's like trading within withinall 50 states of the US is the
same sort of mentality for good.
So I can ship and send aproduct from Italy to Spain at
no duty cost, no tax cost, justsend the product.
Right, so when when it, when itcomes to Poland, that becomes
(31:03):
an issue.
Right, because you can'treclaim the import VAT without a
Polish bank account.
So, as I said, the best countryis to do with and it's very
Important to consider that theUK.
I don't know if you guys know,but there's something called
Brexit happened a few years ago,so the UK is no longer part of
the EU.
I One piece of advice as muchas geographically, the UK is
(31:24):
very close to Europe, now,because of Brexit, the UK it's
almost I would almost tellpeople to consider them as
either UK, as a differentcontinent, simply because the
tax rules are different.
There's different customsrequirements yes, it's still VAT
.
However, it's very different toEurope.
You cannot move goods as easilyas you, as you Used to and as
(31:47):
easily as you can in in the EU.
So the UK has to be treateddifferent and I'd say the best
options for to send to an FBAcenter will probably be France
in in in Europe.
Simply because, when I talkedabout the import VAT side of
things, france, if you're French, you're French VAT registered
(32:07):
business.
France won't actually chargeyou any import VAT when you
import.
So you know the 20% import VATthat I was talking about earlier
.
France, as soon as you have avalid French VAT registration
number, france will not chargeyou that up front.
And that becomes reallyimportant, right?
Because let's say you areimporting a container worth of
(32:28):
goods 100,000 dollars worth ofgoods that you're importing into
Europe Paying 20% up front.
We're talking about another20,000 dollars just for VAT that
you lose for a temporary period.
You can claim it back, but youlose it.
For a business that has highcash flow issues, that becomes a
(32:49):
problem.
So having a country to ship to,like France, where you can ship
into, it's still the same priceto ship into.
However, you don't have to paythat 20,000 dollars.
In that example it becomes areally effective way of kind of
reaching an FBA center.
Adam Shaffer (33:05):
But would it reach an FBA center in the UK or not?
Piero Perera (33:08):
You would have to ship to the UK FBA center right
and this is separately,separately right.
Yeah correct and that's the mainpart of, I think this whole
episode is talking about theprogram on Amazon, which I'm
sure you've heard of by now,Adam Right?
So, and the Pan-EU program isone of the best programs that
(33:28):
probably Amazon have launched.
And Amazon have launched verymany different programs, but
PANIU is still the main one, thebig one that people are part of
.
So the way the PANIU programused to work is the UK obviously
used to be part of the PANIUprogram before Brexit, but now
the PANIU program is made of sixcountries.
(33:49):
It's Germany, france, spain,italy and It's the UK, Spain,
Italy, Poland and Czech Republic.
Okay, there are potential forother countries to come into
Sweden.
We'll come into it very shortly, I reckon, because there is a
Swedish FBA as well.
So will Belgium and Netherlandsat some point, but for now it's
still those six main countries.
(34:15):
The way that the PANIU works isquite brilliant, actually.
So the PANIU of these sixcountries you must have VAT
registrations.
If you have VAT registrationsin all of those six countries,
all you have to do as a businessis ship into one particular FBA
centre, let's say, in this case, france.
As I said, it's the best one.
If you're shipping to France,amazon will collect everything
(34:38):
in France.
And then you're going to ask mehey, do I have to ship to every
other country?
No, because, being part of thePan-EU program, what Amazon does
is, according to the algorithm,they redistribute that to every
single country you're VATregistered in, similar to the US
, and each state.
Amazon will collect to theirnearest FBA center and then
(34:59):
distribute that wherever it cango.
But in Europe, the onlydifference is that you must be
registered for VAT in thosecountries, and the best thing
about it is that you don'tnecessarily have to go for all
six.
You can pick and choose thecountries that you want to go
into.
Normally, most businesses willstart with Germany and France,
because those are the twobiggest countries and all you
(35:22):
have to do again ship intoFrance and then it interlocks
between France and Germany.
There's many businesses thatonly start with Germany because
Germany is the biggest market inthe EU, but, as I said, then
when you start doing that, youget the local fee in Germany.
You can still sell into othercountries in Europe as well.
However, you get the bestbenefits by being part of all
(35:45):
six countries in the Pan-EU, youget the best fulfillment rates.
You get the spread of productsin many countries as possible.
You can reach countries that areoutside those six countries as
well.
For example, a lot of Germanbusinesses are selling to
Austria.
Austria customers order quite alot from Germany.
(36:06):
Dutch-based clients will orderfrom France, for example.
So there is a big network inEurope that you can be part of.
By the same time, you can pickand choose and you can have a
gradual growth in something thatI speak about quite a lot.
So you can just start with theUK and Germany.
It's just that you're not goingto have the best benefits.
(36:27):
However, it's a great way ofseeing what the potential is.
Adam Shaffer (36:33):
I mean it's amazing.
So the UK not to get political,but they really, when they went
Brexit, they were part of thisand now they're not.
So now it's like its own, likeyou said, continent and it's
treated 100% solo, where youwere getting the benefit of
Europe.
So maybe it's not the UK youstart with, maybe it is Germany,
france.
Announcement (36:53):
Because you're there, you can spread out faster
.
Adam Shaffer (36:55):
I mean, that's interesting and wow, I mean I
guess stuff happens.
Piero Perera (37:01):
You see the language bases.
I mean the UK is still afantastic market.
I'm an Amazon Prime consumermyself in the UK market and I
almost relatively only buy onAmazon because I'm the type of
consumer that wants the productthe next day, right, so it's
still a fantastic market.
It makes sense for a lot of USbusinesses.
But the European market hasit's still growing.
(37:24):
It still has so much potentialand I advise businesses to kind
of start taking the steps now,because the rewards will come
later.
Adam Shaffer (37:34):
How long does it take to get going?
So say, it's December and Iwant to start thinking about New
Year.
I want to launch UK or Germany.
How long does it take to get?
Piero Perera (37:46):
this going?
Yeah, it's a great question,and it's a fantastic question
simply because I get asked quitea lot and again you have to.
I have to mention that we aredealing with different tax
authority authorities anddifferent ways of working Right,
and there's differentrequirements to register the VAT
number as well.
In the UK, you have to provethat you have your Amazon store
(38:06):
from set up.
Then, instead Italy, you onlyhave to provide the directors
passport and they give you a VATnumber in like a week, but
different countries havedifferent requirements and
different timelines.
I would say the overall,depending on the country.
I will probably give you two tothree months to start with.
If you were to start today, Iwould probably start planning
(38:28):
for a Q2 launch in the UK andGermany, Because there's many
things that come in between.
There's the Christmas periodnow the festive periods in the
US, where it can be quite busyas well, because it's the most
important quarter for anye-commerce business and then you
(38:48):
have to start planning thedocuments that you require and
then we have to submit it to thetax authority and we have to
make sure that nothing is wrong.
If anything goes wrong, we haveto communicate with the tax
authority to make sure we get it.
So I would say a Q2 launch islikely.
So I always warn businesses twoto three months is about right
to start thinking about it andthen it's.
(39:10):
I can imagine for a business itbecoming quite tough because
you have to learn yourproduction, your manufacturing,
your buying and making sure thateverything is sorted.
Hence why I always say aboutthe barriser entry to start
might be a little bit difficult,but once you're in, you're in
type of thing.
Adam Shaffer (39:28):
Wow.
So you know it sounded itsounds complicated.
So we talked about VAT.
We talked about duties importVAT outside of France and we
talked about this environmentalduty or tax that they have, and
so it sounds kind of scary.
(39:48):
So you know, I think that's whyI don't want people to get
scared.
I want them to say it'scomplicated and I need a partner
, and I need to find a partnerlike Avast to work with out
there, because once I do getthis going, the machine works.
It's just you got to.
It's not as simple as justlighting up a store in the US.
(40:10):
So I want people to understandthat Avast exists, because this
is an issue that most e-commerceoutside of Amazon if you want
to do Shopify or any of theseother e-commerce platforms in
Europe you need this kind ofhelp.
So I think it's incrediblyimportant that pan-Euro
(40:30):
fulfillment sounds like.
You know that sounds like adream.
So I think that's somethingpeople should think about and I
think they should talk tosomebody like you to think about
what their strategy is beforethey get going.
Now, it's great if somebody'salready in trouble you're there,
but I think it's always betterto start better from the start,
before you're there, where youkind of have a clean slate.
(40:51):
So I think you know listenersshould talk to you, your company
or company like your company,before they take that step and
light up that first queue onAmazon in Europe or the UK.
So, coming close to the endhere, I wanted to just pick your
brain on.
You know what was like one ofthe biggest wins you guys had.
(41:16):
You're working with one of yourpartners.
What's something that youreally did a great job and help
them out and get out of somekind of issue.
Piero Perera (41:23):
Yeah, I would say I'll say on, one of the best
stories that I have is it's ourUS based client that that have
massive success in the US and Ireally enjoyed the Did I write
actually.
I met in person actually.
I met him at Amazon Acceleratein 22 the previous, the very
first one and I met him inperson again in the UK as well,
(41:48):
and what they did best was tonot rush anything, to be as calm
as possible and take the, thewhole strategy by time.
This nine figure seller in inthe US that's looking to, you
know, replicate somewhat inEurope and what they did and the
(42:09):
main issue that we saw there istheir skews, because they have
25,000 plus to pick accordinglyto what suited to the market.
It's very important.
That's where, as I said, browncompanies like helium 10 come in
and play a massive role,because they kind of really show
you what type of productactually suits best.
And then it's splitting thestrategy and the starting
(42:31):
strategy right.
So how are you planning onshipping?
What is the shipping method?
If everything is coming fromChina, what is the most
cost-effective way of doing so?
If you're sending a container,how do we split the container if
you spend, if you want to split, if you have enough amounts to
be able to send to containers,then have definitely split one
(42:53):
to the UK because the UK marketstill has massive demand, and
then split the other containertowards Europe Because of double
taxation side of things as well.
So that was massive because alot of businesses, I think,
still Ship towards the UK.
They have to pay VAT and dutiesthere and then they take some
of their stock and they ship itto Europe where they have to pay
(43:14):
VAT and Duties again.
So there's a loss of moneythere in that case.
So if we actually split theshipment, in that in that sense
you only you don't pay VAT inEngland, in the UK, simply
because there is a scheme, justlike France, where you don't pay
In port VAT and we ship intoFrance.
Well, actually in this case weshipped it to Netherlands
(43:36):
because the Netherlands anothercountry that has that same
option it's not part of the panEU program, but this particular
client used a 3pL solution inEurope because, as I said, they
have many skews and they want tosome long-term storage as well
and a ship less, as less aspossible.
So sorting that whole strategyout for them to start, and now
(43:58):
they're finally on pan EUprogram.
They have all the VAT numbers.
They're probably the wholestrategy to launch, probably to
come around I want to say six tonine months.
But they did it very slowly,they took their time and they do
it properly and now thecontainers have arrived, they're
starting selling in Europe andthey're already seeing great
(44:19):
results.
Obviously, to match theAmazoncom side of things, it
will take its time, but they'vedone a great job in terms of
kind of listening to the advicethat a boss gave them and now
they're finally starting toReally to really see the perks
of all the hard work there'sbeen over the past six months.
Now, again, that still sounds alittle bit scary.
(44:39):
So what I really want to, whatI really want to push, is it
doesn't necessarily have to belike that, it doesn't have to be
container stuff.
He has it's, it's.
It can be a gradual growth, asI've always said.
Let's start with the UK beingone of the one of the best
countries to go into, becauseit's easy because of the
language side of things.
Start from the UK and you sendone parcel of one particular
(45:00):
skew and all of a sudden you seethat success and then we build
that gradually, but the VAT sideof things is still the number
one thing that we need to lookinto so.
Adam Shaffer (45:09):
So with that, and you're kind of getting to my my
last and final question, but canyou, piero, can you give the
listeners of North America Finaladvice on Looking at Europe as
a way to expand?
Piero Perera (45:24):
Yeah, absolutely for me.
What I really want to push isthe opportunity side of things.
Right, it's.
It's a fantastic opportunityfor you to replicate what you're
already doing.
The US.
Ignore the barriers of entry,because a company like a boss
will help you.
There's other companies as wellthat can help you kind of get
you all of those requirementsfor you to be able to start
selling in Europe.
And once in Europe, you need tounderstand okay, where, where
(45:48):
can I maximize profitability?
So my number one advice is toget in touch with someone and
myself that strategizes forbusinesses, especially to launch
.
You can do so violin tin or myemail at pierrot up Pereira at a
boss group, calm and yeah, mywhole job is to make each and
every business that I speak toSucceed as much as possible in
(46:10):
Europe and make the wholeStarting and those barriers of
entry that I've spoken about alittle bit less scary.
So that's my awesome.
Adam Shaffer (46:18):
Awesome.
So it sounds scary a Voskin inPiero and the team there take
the Scariness out of it.
But you know, expanding onAmazon especially, but with your
e-commerce business, butexpanding into other markets is
a great way to grow.
It definitely adds to thecomplexity and that's why having
partners helps, but I dorecommend it.
(46:39):
I think it's something that youdo step by step and and thank
you very much, piero, for youradvice today really super
important and helpful.
Piero Perera (46:49):
Hey, thank you so much for having me.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you.
Announcement (46:54):
Thank you for watching another episode of the
Planet Amazon podcast, where wetalk all things Amazon.
If you want to learn about howto Accelerate your sales on
Amazon, visit Phelps United'swebsite at Phelps United comms
you.
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