John Thomas | Why John Thomas Tattooed ‘Vegan’ on His Head | PPAP40 - Plant Powered Athlete Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Plant Powered Athlete Podcast. I'm your host Robert

(00:05):
Cheek and I have another phenomenal guest today. I've got my man John Thomas. He is the bodybuilding
vegan. He is a champion vegan bodybuilder. He's an entrepreneur. He's a coach. He's a trainer. He's
an event organizer. He's a content creator. He's a good friend of mine and he's one of the nicest guys
in this entire vegan community. Full stop. John Thomas, welcome to the show. Great to have you here.

(00:31):
Oh thank you for having me on Robert. I'm trying to embrace accepting who I am and what I do and
even sometimes taking credit for the things that I have done. I have just last weekend run a whole
vegan event. The first time I've ever run one basically off my own accord. I had some business
partners. It really helped of course but like it was my idea to pick that day and that was really

(00:56):
incredible and it is I don't know what script we have but I'm just jumping into this. It is
a weird world to hear Robert Cheek introduce me in that manner because I know I know I've told you
this story but like over a decade ago I'm sitting outside trying to get a tan at my apartment complex

(01:16):
pool 18 years old reading one of your first books about vegan bodybuilding and just trying to take
in all the information that I could so that I could one day be like you and to now have you say
that I'm your friend. Like 18 year old me would be like no no way never like that's insane but

(01:38):
here we are so thank you for having me on and thank you for kind of paving the way because
there wasn't much for me to look to back then at 18 or at 13 when I went vegan I was the only vegan
I knew and you definitely helped open a lot of doors for people like me and for me specifically
so thank you. Well I appreciate that John. Always appreciate your kind words and your

(02:02):
your gratitude and gracefulness which you carry yourself. I'm always thankful for that and I want
to ask you a question and feel free to give me the long version. I want to ask you just how you
doing today? You know a lot of us say fine I'm good I'm great but let's let's dive a little bit
deeper. How are you doing today? That is a phenomenal question and one that I know you

(02:26):
genuinely want to know because when the cashier at Trader Joe's asked me a few years ago hey how
are you doing today? I said well I just lost a relationship I thought I was going to spend the
rest of my life with. I'm kind of the most depressed I've ever been and I've been crying
for the last three hours. How are you doing? And they just looked at me like dude I just get paid

(02:47):
nine bucks an hour to work here and just ask you how you doing? Like I didn't need the long answer
like Robert Cheek needs so yeah I'll give you the long answer brother. I just told I recently
hired a business partner because assistant or like another word like that wouldn't capture
what he does for me. Alex Nerus he's been instrumental for me this last month. I brought

(03:11):
him on full time. I'm viewing the bodybuilding vegan not so much as my alter ego superhero that
can do the things I can't but more of as a business now not in the sense of I want to make money but
businesses have partners they have levels they have chains of command whereas like people usually
don't and so all this to say I am doing very well. I am extremely busy. I have never worked

(03:37):
this much in my life and this is coming from someone who was a working full-time while taking
15 credit hours in in college and then I've basically had two or three jobs every year of
my life other than for like one small portion of time where I was working 60 hours a week at one
job so like I've always been kind of this busy person but lately it's been on another level.

(03:59):
I'm trying to be in more places at once so not just on Instagram but not just on TikTok not just
on YouTube not just on Pinterest not just on Reddit not just on Facebook and podcasts my own
podcast but now your podcast too and and it's a lot there's a lot of people pulling at me at at

(04:21):
nearly all times. I have about 40 clients a lot of them are vegans a lot of them are bodybuilders so
it really is a high priority of me to take care of them and then I get opportunities. This last
weekend I ran the vegan foodie fest in Tampa first one ever we're gonna hopefully have you at our
January 25th vegan foodie fest Miami the one we were originally planning for. I'm gonna be at the

(04:46):
vegan block party next weekend I've spent over ten thousand dollars this year on Airbnbs and none of
those have been like hey let's go to the beach and just have a vacation. Actually I lied one was let's
just go to the beach and have a vacation with my girlfriend for our one of our anniversaries.
Outside of that one they've all been around events vegan events and trying to speak and trying to

(05:09):
promote and help vegan businesses survive and so how am I? I am in a million different places
I'm trying my best to be present and here with you right now and I've been doing some breath work.
I missed it this morning but I'll get it this evening and trying to just figure out how I can
make the most change in my life to make the world a better place before I die and try and I think

(05:35):
the best way that I know how is to encourage people to go vegan to see the reasons why and to
see that you don't lose anything that you gain a whole lot by going vegan. Well yeah John that would
definitely hold up the line at Trader Joe's but I appreciate you sharing that with me and with our
audience today. I want to linger on this vegan foodie festival for a moment because you originally

(05:59):
planned this for January 25th Miami Florida. It's on my calendar it's to be determined whether I can
make that or not we gotta we gotta keep in touch about that but there was originally going to be
a Tampa veg fest. I was going to be there it was November 2nd devastating hurricane came through
many people on the board were impacted by that and were not able to put that on. You came in

(06:23):
with your business partner with your team with your you know with your crew and basically said
hey we're not going to let this storm ravage the city and leave it empty we're going to fill it
with joy and with vegan food and with entertainment and all that. At least that's how I see it from the
outside looking in and you hosted this event on very short notice. So tell me how it went. I wasn't

(06:50):
there I've actually heard about it from someone who was there but tell me about it and tell me
what you're looking forward to for the January event in Miami which you have obviously a bunch
bigger lead time to make it as epic as possible. Yeah so I guess to kind of chronologically
backstory about six months ago I'd been telling my brand manager also the runner the the founder

(07:16):
of Vegans Explore Sean Russell I had been telling him we need to do an event in Tampa we need to do
an event in Tampa we need to do an event in Tampa and it just never popped up and so another one of
our partners Diego Caola I hope I said his last name correctly he reached out and said hey I want
to run a vegan fest in Miami I'm not vegan but I know this could be big I know there's a big demand

(07:38):
for it I wanted to reach out to somebody that knows the crowd and could could bring a good event so
John what do you think I said I'll do anything if Sean is involved he's my brand manager and I trust
his judgment he's run a lot of these events so the three of us said okay we're going to do it in Miami
what are we going to call it ran through some names found the vegan foodie fest I think it

(07:59):
sounds good and it kind of it's the vegan foodie fest like the bodybuilding vegan it's the event
to be at so we had planned for January 25th and we've been doing a lot of planning we want to have
like 50 vendors two full-scale bars that we convinced to go vegan for the day they might
still sell food but it's gonna be like pretzels it's gonna be vegan bar food and so like one of

(08:21):
the places I don't know if I'm even allowed to say this but it's like a rodeo themed bar and our goal
is like of course vegans aren't going to want to sit on a leather couch so we're gonna have to
cover some stuff up take the dead animal heads off the walls but then also set up some education
and outreach and animal activism inside there and be like look this isn't your place but if all the

(08:42):
vegans just go on this vegan deserted island and hang out together we don't change the world so
let's go to this bar and convert it vegan for a day and educate people so anyways we've been
planning the vegan foodie fest Miami for a long time and about three weeks ago I'm at the gym
and I get an instagram notification or even an email the Tampa Bay VegFest is canceled and I

(09:07):
immediate thought was shit and I wanted to go to a negative place a place of um limited beliefs a
place of sadness a place of disappointment this is going on because of a few reasons one I know
that a lot of these vendors have blocked off this day probably the whole year because it's the only
event in Tampa right there's really not much else here there's a couple small ones in St Pete but

(09:31):
there's not really a Tampa vegan event so these vendors are planning to travel they've blocked
off their calendars by saying yes to the Tampa Bay VegFest they said no to other events exactly
so I said Nick who runs vegan international co and the vegan halal cart I knew he was going
to be at that event and then Sandra who runs we vegan cafe here in Tampa I said I texted him I

(09:53):
said we need to get on a call today we can do this I know we can we all got on a call we found a
location and it ended up being Sandra's parking lot in front of we vegan cafe she has a church
there she was able to clear with us that we could get for parking and have extra event space we
brought I believe 20 vendors I think I could be wrong here like the estimate we did about 40,000

(10:16):
in vendor sales is our is our guess like vendors sold that much product that day and hugely
successful but we had like two weeks to pull it off so I'm I'm scrambling I got my business partner
Alex Neers with me like texting all these different vendors some of the vendors that had already
signed up for Miami in January we're like hey we got we got a spot and then I'm like hey were you
going to be the veg fest and they're like yeah it sucks I was like well come out to ours come out to

(10:39):
ours come out to ours we want to take care of you we're not going to charge hardly anything
we just want to put this on so that there's a space for the vendors to make their money so they
can stay open because I know as a consumer it sucked that I didn't have that day to go to the
veg fest and have fun but as a vendor as somebody that makes my living off of this and who makes

(10:59):
vegan products for everyone not just for vegans I really wanted to make sure they were taken care
of and I think we did and sometimes in life what feels like a lemon you can squeeze it real hard
and get lemonade because like I knew there was one event yearly in Tampa and there was going to be
one a year event and one yearly event and if this one had happened I would have stayed in that

(11:24):
mentality now I see no reason why we can't do this every month and support these vendors every month
and make veganism more fun and actually get people that like put it on their calendar in advance have
more than two weeks notice so yeah it was it was something completely new for me I've never run an
event before I did not eat my first bite of food that day until 4 30 p.m because I wasn't there to

(11:48):
eat I'm always at these events to eat but my goal this time was to feed the vendors and to feed the
customers and to make sure everybody else is taken care of and it was one of honestly Robert like top
10 best days of my life I love hearing that and you know it just expands your ever-growing
biography as well I mean I failed to mention podcast host in your long bio that I read earlier

(12:11):
and now you know vegfest organizer and of course touring speaker I think I left that off too
you've got a lot going on and so for you to find that time find that energy that ambition that
desire to bring it back to life is commendable and as I mentioned I was going to be there coming in
from Colorado I was going to be an exhibitor I got the same email or the social media message

(12:35):
or whatever it was that the event is canceled and I immediately oh man super bummed and at the time
certainly didn't know about your event and I scrambled and I booked the Birmingham
vegfest in Alabama in that same weekend but the third instead of the second I just got back from
Alabama last night so I did that event and it was great and right there in the deep south you know

(12:59):
thousands of people showed up vendor sales were great all this kind of stuff and to your point
they do that vegfest multiple times per year not every month but they do one in the spring
one in the fall and in fact I had a great time I mean Gray was there you know the rapper Gray
with the vegan thanksgiving song he's an old friend he was there I bumped into three different

(13:20):
people that had met me previously on the vegan cruise and different years an old friend from
my Portland days 15 years ago I hadn't seen in 15 years she lives there now as a college professor
it was a great event and they told me that their spring event is even bigger so I already I put
that on my calendar as something to hopefully attend in April but to your point this was

(13:45):
something there's a reason why I filled that weekend because I was I was counting on that
that revenue that exposure and you and I have talked at you know hanging out and at dinner about
the difficulties the struggle that it is to be an entrepreneur to be a content creator to be an
artist of sorts and to have a brand you know whether you're selling apparel or I'm selling

(14:09):
books it's it's a struggle out there to have these opportunities is so greatly appreciated so I want
to I want to commend you for for stepping in and doing that and expanding your ever-growing biography
I want to switch gears for a moment John I want you to take us back in time what was the moment

(14:31):
maybe you can pin it pinpoint it down to an a thought or an experience but when was the moment
that you decided to become a bodybuilder
oh that's a good question I don't think many people have asked me that Robert
I will say backstory I think I was like 12 or 13 and I watched pumping iron with Arnold Schwarzenegger

(14:55):
and I was like what the hell is this like this is weird like I wanted to watch like how to work out
and like it's just a bunch of guys like working out some like silly behind the scenes stuff and
then the competition but like I was like where's the training like like there was some training
footage but it wasn't all about training I was like I don't know this is weird this is weird
so like I was not in a bodybuilding like I didn't know who Arnold was because he was a terminator

(15:16):
like he was cool for being an actor but it wasn't like oh Arnold's a bodybuilder I want to be like
that so at that time I really wasn't interested in it like 12 13 I think that's probably when
a lot of kids start to I know I know a lot of people that do bodybuilding now and they're
like oh ever since I was eight or ten or 13 I thought bodybuilding was cool but I thought it
was weird and um I got into wrestling at 14 and then 15 and as the season came to a close

(15:44):
you know we ran a lot we ran more than cross-country I was running five plus miles
a day like for me I felt like I was fast with a sub six minute mile but I was also 128 pounds
about literally under 100 pounds from where I'm at now um so we go to do like off-season
conditioning and weightlifting and I remember being like I don't know this is kind of fun like

(16:06):
wrestling was just painful and excruciating I remember staring at the clock and like we had
three hour practices and I remember sometimes looking up and we're like 15 minutes in and I'm
like dying and I'm like I don't know how I'm gonna do this so I feel like wrestling kind of helped me
for bodybuilding because in some ways it's harder and we did that that off-season conditioning
and I was like man I think I like lifting weights and it wasn't to become a bodybuilder at the time

(16:30):
in the traditional sense I think I was like I want to get as big as possible as quickly
as possible so it wasn't again like being a bodybuilder per se but that was the original goal
to the point where my first week in the gym I went six times in the morning and six times at night

(16:52):
because I had read in some Arnold magazine that he trains morning and night I'm like okay Monday
Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday I'm gonna ride my little bike to the gym because I'm
15 I don't got a car I don't even have a license got my learner's permit but can't do much of that
so I'm gonna ride the bike to the gym in the morning train go home and eat and play video games I
played Star Wars Nice and Old Republic for like six to seven hours and then get on my bike and ride

(17:12):
back to the gym and train again and like I did that for the entire summer if my mom wanted to
if my mom wanted to hang out or go to the beach I was like Sundays only that's it I gained about
five pounds I didn't know how to eat I was doing way too much activity but I kind of fell in love
with that routine of I get to go to the gym I get to be in my place at that time I was so minimalistic

(17:34):
I didn't have gym shoes so like it was whatever was on my feet I did not have headphones I didn't
have an mp3 player or a cd player I didn't have a water bottle for the gym because I wanted no
attachments like I didn't want anything to stop me I didn't want to crutch like oh I forgot my
shoes I can't train today or I forgot my my headphones I can't go as hard so I remember

(17:55):
what the radio stations were playing like Katy Perry's I Kissed a Girl Rihanna I forget what
she had Justin Bieber had like just come out at the time this is like 2008 2009 like somewhere
around there and and those songs will always bring me back to that first summer in the gym
and I had even structured my training like I'm not going to train calves because that's a small

(18:16):
muscle group I'm just going to train extra sets of quads because I want to grow to be as big
as I can and get as strong as I can and so I don't know when exactly the moment switched over to
bodybuilding but for like the first two years it was mostly to just get bigger in general
and get stronger I wanted to lift more weights I want to be stronger than other people probably
some insecurity complex like if I'm stronger than you you can't make fun of me for being vegan like

(18:39):
because I'm stronger than you that was like kind of where it started and I think around probably
16 17 I definitely that was around when I first made my first and only post to vegan bodybuilding
and fitness I didn't know what I was doing I did a most muscular and I remember one of the comments
was like it looks like you're punching yourself in the nuts I'm just like I don't know what I'm

(19:00):
doing um and yeah I started to trend more towards bodybuilding just because like I feel like there
I feel like there was more accessible knowledge there like learning about your body and learning
about nutrition and how you can manipulate it whereas like power lifting and strength sports
were kind of I mean I'm sure there was information there but I guess to me it was more of like just

(19:23):
get really stupid strong and like don't focus on your diet as much you have to remember this was
like over a decade ago too so like nutrition was probably more up to speed for bodybuilding and
less for other sports at the time and as far as competing goes I decided around age 20 that I

(19:45):
wanted to get on stage because I was about 200 pounds at the time I could squat four or five
for three reps I think I could bench like 315 still fully natural athlete at the time and was
like I think I think I want to do a bodybuilding show just to see if I can and I had been watching
some people on YouTube like uh Layne Norton who now goes to my gym it's very cool to like just

(20:06):
bump into him now like in the same way that like well me and you are friends me and Layne are
acquaintances but it's still cool because I used to watch his stuff to learn about natural
bodybuilding over a decade ago um and that was that was when I first decided okay I'm going to
try and do a show I didn't know how to pose I did not I had gotten lean before but never
a stage lean I didn't have a coach it was honestly kind of a shit show uh but that was my first foray

(20:31):
into competitive bodybuilding right around age 20 and how long had you been vegan before getting
into bodybuilding so I went vegan at 13 years old and I didn't touch a weight I mean like
I touched a weight but like never trained until about age 15 okay so a couple years first yeah

(20:52):
yeah so so me too we're in the same boat there where we became vegan before lifting like our
entire physiques you're a lot bigger than I am but we both have had some success on the bodybuilding
stage over the course of the last decade or two and that all came after we became vegan that all
came from our vegan lifestyle which takes away one of those arguments that I hear literally

(21:16):
every single day whether it's on my vegan bodybuilding facebook group or anywhere else
where people are like yeah that person built up their muscle as a omnivore as a non-vegan
and then just became vegan recently that's absolutely not the case with you it's not the
case with me it's not the case with tory washington or so many others and so I really wanted to just
make sure we made that really clear for the listeners because you are a really big strong

(21:40):
guy and I couldn't believe sitting next to you on a speaking panel I would just I would I was
my internal thought like looking down at like my thigh which looked like a smaller than a forearm
compared to your thigh because our knees were like next to each other I'm like I was even telling
someone after that I was telling uh I think our mutual friend Danny Taylor I'm like man

(22:00):
John is just so big he's just so muscular like I just doesn't matter how much I prop myself up
and flex and flare up my lats or try to tense muscles like I just I'm in awe of this guy's
muscle size and he's done this entirely on a plant-based diet and not just on a plant-based diet
as a very compassionate vegan you wear it on your sleeve it's tattooed on your head

(22:23):
you wear it across your chest so I want to transition there for a moment John um I know
you've mentioned already and all that but we can give us the the detailed version of your vegan
journey so we can understand why I mean why it means so much to you that you tattooed your head
your head to raise money and that you go out of your way to raise money for animals all the time

(22:46):
and that you dedicate your entire life to veganism and to helping the less fortunate among us
you know the the voiceless uh the animals that share this planet with us
take us back in time and why does it mean so much to you hey it's Nathan Crane founder of
Plant Powered Athlete and I want to thank you for tuning in to the Plant Powered Athlete podcast

(23:06):
and as a special thank you I want to give you a 10 discount code on our Plant Powered Protein
scientifically formulated super clean organic high quality Plant Powered Protein designed with
health and performance and longevity in mind with three super high quality adaptogens that have been
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(23:32):
thrive so the 10 discount code you can use the word podcast at checkout and you can get
Plant Powered Protein at our website at PlantPoweredAthlete.com thanks again for
tuning in I'm excited for this it's a journey it's an ever-changing journey too
for those of you that can't see I do have the word vegan tattooed on the side of my head but

(23:56):
that was that was only in April that was what seven months ago six months ago I can't even do math
it was this year it's not been my whole life that it's been like this however I will make the
argument I genuinely believe for the majority of humans when we were born we would unless

(24:17):
otherwise conditioned all agree that murder is wrong most of us don't grow up desiring to murder
other people now if you grow up in a war-torn country or have to fight for your survival as a
child or grow up in an abusive household then I think you're you're you're nurturing what's been
done to you might make you more inclined to be a violent person but I think at a core we we aren't

(24:44):
I think humans are like by default instilled with compassion and it's through experiences that drive
non-compassion so what I'm getting at here is I think we're all born vegan I think we are I think
we come into this world I mean yes technically you aren't vegan if you drink milk from your mother but
it's within your species and it's from consent from someone that wants to keep you alive so it

(25:05):
makes sense I'm not saying yeah anyways for me the first inkling that I might go down this vegan
journey and I think this is important for other people if you're a pre-vegan listening to this
start to think where you might identify with some acts of compassion and for me it was I was four
years old my dad was fishing we had caught some catfish and he had them strung on a line which

(25:30):
now even saying this sounds weird um sticking a string through a fish's gill and leaving it in the
water and we had caught them at night and we were gonna have fish for breakfast he asked me the next
morning do you you want to have fish for breakfast I'm like yeah fish sounds good he's like all right
let's go get them I'm like all right let's go get them and he pulls them out of the water and puts

(25:51):
them on the dock and they're doing what fish do and you take them out of the water they're slowly dying
and I start freaking out and he's like what and I said no no no no no no no no no and started crying
and my dad's like you don't want to eat fish and it was at that time that I realized fish on your

(26:11):
plate is the same as the fish that are in the water and I said I don't want to eat that I don't want
to kill them so my dad put them back in the water I don't know if they lived or not I probably ate
a hamburger or a breakfast sandwich with a sausage or something else not an hour later but when it was
in front of me and I think for anybody listening that's a pre-vegan if you watch an animal in pain

(26:33):
suffering whether it's an animal hit on the side of the road or your pet being in misery as it's
dying or a bird with a clipped wing or whatever like it doesn't at least for me at four and now
at 32 it doesn't sit well in my stomach I don't enjoy seeing it it it impacts me so fast forward
to about nine years old my dad is I believe a good person he wanted to take me hunting because that

(26:58):
was something his dad had always done with him I knew how to shoot at this time so we took up our
bolt-action 22 rifle very small gun but went out into the woods looking for squirrels I don't know
if we were going to eat them or not probably I mean my dad used to say like you don't hunt things
unless you're going to eat them that trophy hunting is stupid but I would just make the argument that
hunting is not very kind and so I had made the decision that I didn't want to disappoint my

(27:24):
father but I also didn't want to shoot and kill a squirrel and I had gone target practicing before
and like I knew I could probably do this so I had told myself I'll be sneaky I'll shoot at the dirt
I'll miss luckily for all the squirrels and my may or may not miss ability we didn't see any I
didn't have to kill any but I remember at nine thinking I don't want to kill something now if

(27:45):
somebody else kills it and feeds it to me I still hadn't yet come to the conclusion that that was
wrong fast forward to 10 years old my best friend her name is Tommy Ray her mom was friends with my
mom we were born on the same day technically we knew each other before we were born because they
touched bellies pregnant bellies and she came over one day and her mom would always get us

(28:06):
McDonald's like on Wednesday or whatever and I go to eat my hamburger and she's like you're killing
a cow I go what she's like yeah by eating hamburgers you're killing cows and as I'm chewing I'm like
all right I mean the logic checks out like you do have to you don't have to kill a cow to eat a
hamburger that's kind of how it works but everybody does it so why does it matter if everybody does it

(28:33):
and she's like well I'm not going to do it and she planted a seed and I couldn't shake that feeling
it didn't happen overnight I don't think anybody goes vegan overnight for the most part you have
to be at least veg curious to watch a documentary or be open-minded and over the next few months I
started subtracting animals from my diet I stopped eating cows I stopped eating chickens stopped

(28:55):
eating pigs not bacon but pigs because I realized bacon comes from pigs you have to kill a pig to
get bacon so I'm not eating pigs anymore but I had been bullied a lot uh for my looks for my hair I
had buck teeth I had a rat tail long hair and I didn't want to give these bullies any more
ammunition so I definitely didn't want to label myself as a weird vegetarian so I was like well

(29:17):
I'll still eat fish funny enough because that was what I threw a temper tantrum at at four
and I'll still eat turkey and uh one day I was like well I'm going to be like a Native American
I'm going to thank this fish for letting me eat it I got about halfway through a fish at Captain D's
and I was like this is the dumbest thing in the world I'm saying thank you after every bite like
I'd rather just not say thank you and not kill you so fish was out but couldn't be that weird

(29:40):
vegetarian and you know still enjoyed eating turkey because it tasted good and Thanksgiving
rolled around I'm still 10 years old and I go to get my plate and there's a big old turkey on the
table and I'm like if I won't kill a cow if I won't kill a dog if I won't kill a pig if I won't kill a
fish why am I going to kill a turkey too so it was that day that I turned vegetarian I looked at the

(30:02):
turkey on the table and decided not for me and that's it the world was saved I was vegetarian
there was nothing else to do haha three years later I'm riding to middle school with my mom
I actually talked to her about this at the vegan foodie fest Tampa I asked her if she remembered
this I had got a pita magazine because my mom's like oh we could probably get vegetarian recipes

(30:22):
in this and I had this thing with a factory farm in the front it said vegetarian isn't enough
and me being my analytical self I'm gonna I'm so ready to go in there and tear this argument
apart you don't you don't kill cows to get milk you know chickens lay eggs anyways there's nothing
wrong with that I finished the article and I looked at my mom and I said I want to try being vegan

(30:43):
for a week I'm sure at 13 telling my mom this on the way to middle school she's already got me
being vegetarian convinced my brother to be vegetarian and she's probably like oh gosh all
right well I'm a good parent I'm gonna support my son even if he's doing something a little silly
and she said okay and that week has now turned into I believe 19 years I don't know the date

(31:05):
because to me this was just an experiment and I didn't know it was going to become a big part of
my life I just didn't want to hurt animals because I realized that milk wasn't any you know drinking
the milk was no different than eating the hamburger the cow still dies at the end of the story and so
I just didn't want to feel guilty I wanted to cleanse my own palate and and and not cause harm
to others and I didn't know there was a vegan movement per se I didn't know that people had

(31:31):
vegan anniversaries that there were veg fests that there were vegan bodybuilders I didn't know any
of this I was the first vegan I knew I don't think I had met another one in my entire life that I knew
it was vegan my mom said there was somebody in my preschool like 10 years prior to that but I didn't
know them like I didn't know them then or now like I was the only vegan I knew nothing about

(31:52):
bodybuilding in my life I just I didn't want to kill animals and then the story was saved the world
was done and it's all good everything's happy fast forward a lot later Robert a lot later
before I became what I would consider an activist I thought by me not killing any animals I was

(32:13):
doing my part I wasn't contributing to factory farming I kept my mouth shut there were people
that didn't know I was vegan that had known me for five or six years of being vegan they didn't
know until very recently until a couple years ago they're like I trained with you for eight years you
weren't vegan I'm like I just didn't tell you and so as of around two years ago I started wearing

(32:38):
my first vegan shirt I started to want to actively promote veganism to encourage other people that
were on the fence or at least open-minded or willing to try a meal let me buy you a vegan meal
let me have you try some vegan protein powder because I know you normally would use whey try
this pea protein isolate try something else and I thought that was a big step in the right direction

(33:04):
but then I realized there's more I had a friend ask me where he should donate some money that he
came into what vegan charities do I donate to I had no answer I was caught with my pants down I
I had nowhere to send this person and it made me realize I could do more and so now 2024 has been a

(33:31):
long year this year I found my purpose for the rest of my pretty much life since I was six I
opened my first bank account when I was six years old at eight I switched to a different one because
I had a better interest rate I've always been analytical I've always invested a lot into
retirement when I worked at the sheriff's office I told him I wanted to put 25 percent of my pay

(33:53):
into my retirement account and they said oh you've made a an error you meant 25 dollars out of each
paycheck I said no 25 percent and it blew their mind because I've always wanted to retire early
so I could travel the world or do things and so up until the end of 2023 that was my goal make
enough money to retire I was probably halfway there 31 years old 2024 the goals have shifted a

(34:19):
little bit I'd like to be a bit more like Elon Musk Bill Gates Jeff Bezos that kind of rich
because at that kind of money you can change the world not for me I'm not getting a bigger apartment
or a nicer car what I've realized is for the first 30 years of my life I was working towards
retirement now for the rest of my life I'll be working towards making the world a better place

(34:40):
and I view veganism as probably the most accessible way I know that there are other horrors that face
the world right now I know we still have human slavery we have child trafficking we have you know
child labor in other countries and in this country that that could be worked on and should be

(35:02):
I just know it's and at least in my journey it's easier to get people to change three meals a day
than to go to another country or go to another continent or join law enforcement to end some of
the other horrors so for me the veganism I think is where I can have the biggest impact and
thank you for letting me go down this very very long story of this is where it's at now Robert

(35:24):
I don't know where it'll be in a decade but I've changed a lot over time and I think I think other
people do too it's not you see one documentary and then it's there it's there is a number of
small things that led you to be there yeah that's a that's a really good comprehensive
analysis of that journey that you've been on and I I almost ran out of space taking notes

(35:49):
I'm going to summarize some of that for you and you tell me where I'm where I'm wrong here or where
I got it right just to just summarize for the listeners what I gathered from this because
that's the important the interpretation of your of what you're presenting that you talked about
at four years old it was really confronting violence that didn't sit well with you that was

(36:13):
you saw the violence you know being aimed at the at the fish you want to know part of that
this this whole out of sight out of mind mentality with disregard to the fact that when it's on your
plate you forget where it came from it came from you this is these are just different fish not the

(36:34):
ones that you caught but these are different fish you're eating the same thing or this is a different
animal and I really appreciate the way that you call the animals as they are chickens and pigs
and cows rather than chicken you know singular without the s or beef or pork or bacon or these
these masks that we put up to describe an individual living being who wanted to live their

(36:59):
own life free of fear pain and suffering you acknowledge that which I which I appreciate I
also want to recognize acknowledge just how incredible it is to be able to make these
decisions at age 10 when you're at the Thanksgiving table there's there's family pressure there's
peer pressure there's social pressure pressure there's societal norms there's all these things

(37:22):
you're already getting bullied that's a very difficult thing to do to stand on principle
to take a stand to speak for those who can't speak for themselves and I just want to
commend you for that you talked about you mentioned the word purpose that
uh there were there were a variety of things that drove you to that uh compassion uh concern for

(37:49):
others uh within bodybuilding your own insecurities or your own uh things that you were dealing with
that you really found this purpose to do something larger than life that I again I think is uh
commendable and then you're you're really finishing with this this accessibility of making

(38:12):
uh the world a better place through accessibility you're right we don't we don't buy three pairs of
shoes per day every day of our life or three wallets or three jackets or hats that might be fur or
leather but we sure as heck sit down especially in the western world to sit down to eat not just
three times a day but often six times a day and we vote with our dollars and 99.99 percent of

(38:35):
animal suffering is wrapped up in the food system and so you recognize that deciding you're going
to lead by example and then you really splashed on the scene like I remember when we met we met a
couple years ago you were already on my radar but you were kind of newly on my radar because I had
known a lot of these other athletes from decades ago like many of the vegan athletes from 20 years

(38:57):
ago or 10 years ago and then here you are uh you came up and said hi to me at the Arnold Sports
Festival and that was our first time meeting and signed a book for you and all this stuff and
and it was great and we've been connected and then you know and friends ever since
but you decided to splash onto the scene and say you know what it's one thing to be vegetarian

(39:20):
it's another thing to be vegan and it's another thing to be a vegan advocate or activist
and actually speak out about it rather than just quietly living this compassionate life which does
make a difference but doesn't make the impact that you ultimately wanted to have so that's what

(39:42):
that's what I got out of it but also I found some similarities you you almost the way you worded it
is exactly the way that I word my story I became vegan as a teenager decided to do it for a week
it's now turned into 29 years you're 19 for you 29 for me we're almost similar numbers there
and and it was something that it just it fell into our laps as the the most logical compassionate

(40:11):
reasonable thing to identify with to make the positive change that we were seeking in our
communities within ourselves and our value system in the world around us so I just thought that was
really interesting some of those similarities that we have and and john uh I want to just
move to another part of your advocacy for a moment um I want to ask you why did you become a coach

(40:39):
I mean that's the main thing that you do like you you've got all these clients you're known as the
bodybuilding vegan coach you do lots of other stuff of course podcasting event organizing but
coaching is like your bread and butter pun intended like that's your main thing so what
inspired you what compelled you and why it's a good question I don't know if anybody else has

(41:04):
ever asked me that one either dang Robert you you got a knack for this podcasting stuff wait to hear
the next questions that are going to come up they're going to blow your mind uh well I had
never coached anyone before I actually never worked with a coach until about 2019 and so back
in 2014 when I did that first competition I I really messed myself up I messed up my hormones I

(41:27):
went from 200 pounds down to 158 155 one day like basically if I didn't lose weight that week it
meant more cardio and less food and I kept that up for like 30 weeks um so I I didn't plan on
competing again for a long time 2019 I had built some size and it was kind of like huh you know

(41:50):
I've never worked with a coach I see other people working with coaches I think I know it all but
I'm smart enough to know I probably don't let me let me hire somebody let me give them two years
and we'll get on the stage in 2021 and I did and about halfway through that journey I had a template
you know I had worked with this coach I learned what a check-in is you know you send your photos

(42:13):
and your weights and how you're doing and you send training footage and then they tell you how you
suck at lifting even though you've been in the gym for 12 years like things like that so I realized
wow okay I'm learning a lot I'm a meal plan with get this seitan I had never made it once in my
life before but I learned how to make it because my coach told me I had to make it and uh it was

(42:34):
one of the most stressful things of my entire life that first week of giving up control
but I made some fantastic progress and I'll be I'll be completely honest with you I was I was
working full-time and I had I had entered a relationship with what is now my ex-fiance and
I'll just keep it real for the podcast somebody asked me to coach them and people had asked me for

(42:56):
years like pop in a dm or at the gym and be like oh I don't you know I don't I don't coach I can
send you to a coach or you can work with this guy and she looked at me and she's like you know
like you're an idiot if you don't take this person's money and it stung and so I did it for her

(43:18):
I got my first client for her I wanted to help provide for the family and
it wasn't the nicest venture into coaching but it made me realize I did it for one person
they paid me 50 dollars for a month and dropped off in the first week I realized if I raised my
money I could get a couple hundred dollars a month and that's how it started back in early 2020 like

(43:41):
right before I think like right before COVID hit and uh that's when I started advertising that I
was taking on clients and it was always just like oh I could pay for my own coaching and then in a
few months I was able to pay for my own coaching and then I was like I can make a couple hundred
dollars a month on the side like this would cover my supplements or other things help finance my
bodybuilding and then my roster kept growing and I realized something I realized I'm pretty damn

(44:07):
good at this and I I try to be humble but let me be real with you I am very good at networking
I am very very good at coaching I am like bottom quarter of bodybuilding I am not a great bodybuilder
order of bodybuilding I am not a great bodybuilder but I'm good at coaching and I realized

(44:32):
for a number of reasons one I can start to earn an income doing this I told myself once I made more
for two consistent months coaching that I was at my full-time job that I was going to quit
came time to sign my third year contract and I quit and I decided I'm going all in on myself and
it was one of the scariest decisions I've ever made but the the reason why I started coaching

(45:00):
as like a career not just as a way to like make my ex-fiance happy or to make a little bit of
money on the side was I realized I have an impact here I can I can do this well and there's there's
a gap there there are some good vegan prep coaches Jacmo Dandy Taylor I'll shop them out of course
there's not many and then on the enhanced side of bodybuilding the PED side I don't really know any

(45:24):
other vegan coaches doing this and so there's a gap there's a gap in knowledge a gap in accessibility
and there's still people even literally in my DMs this morning saying they want a bodybuilder
they want to get fit but they don't think they can do it vegan and they're asking for guidance and
so I'm realizing by being this coach I can help individuals on their journey I can help vegans be

(45:45):
I can help vegans be better be healthier perform better do better look better for the sport that's
big especially when I work with non-competitors when I work with speakers at events when I work
with people that are very public facing influencers if they can look better and be vegan it's going to
make the whole movement look better so from that aspect there is some I see some inherent value

(46:09):
there's also a lot of people that come to me to work with me because I'm a bodybuilder not because
they are vegan but they'll try some vegan protein powder they'll try some tofu sometimes they'll
say hey can I skip chicken and keep tofu because they like it not always not everybody loves it but
like I get a lot of I get a lot of flack for this they say I can't believe you'd work with a non-vegan

(46:29):
that's compromising your morals I'm like I got 20 people on my roster that aren't vegan but all of
them have vegan things in their meals and some of their meals are vegan when but when they came to
me it was meat or dairy at every meal so it's another way to have an impact and really I think
I get I get a lot of satisfaction out of helping vegan athletes at the top of their top of their

(46:54):
sports like having uh Greta Eastl turn pro at her first show ever in the OCB natural uh division out
division out in Colorado like that was cool because she was the only vegan on stage she took the whole
show as a vegan just showing them it can be done and so yeah like like for me it's that's some of

(47:18):
it I guess the other part is I've had about I've had bad coaching experiences I've had coaches
uh basically ghost me on the day of my show I show up and send them photos at 5 a.m. waiting
for reply waiting for a reply it's now 7 15 I'm getting tanned and I'm at the athletes meeting
at 8 so I'm making judgment calls like if I was coaching myself this is what I would eat right now

(47:41):
and then at 9 30 oh sorry man I overslept sorry man I overslept we worked for this for two years
and so when I when I have athletes compete that's their day I mean I had an athlete compete on my
birthday this year September 14th full disclosure I was spending the entire day with my family in

(48:01):
New York it was like my one day off but we had worked for I think almost a year to be at this show
and I told my family like I love you guys but I'm gonna be on my phone some today not for social
media not for anything else but for this person because they invested in me and they're vegan and
they're on stage and I want to support them and I don't want them to go through the same thing I

(48:22):
went through so some of it's like I want to create a safe place for these athletes uh my Mizuno uh
she's a Japanese client of mine she competes in Japan as a vegan bodybuilder I think she got off
stage at her last show at 4 a.m so like I'm on the couch with an alarm going off every 20 to 30
minutes to keep waking me up so I can check does she check in does she send anything does she need

(48:44):
nope she didn't back to sleep ring anything nope okay back to sleep until 4m she's like I'm off
stage I'm done I'm good go go to bed because I don't want her to go through what I went through
and she's a vegan in the sport I want her to be able to represent veganism through bodybuilding
you know in the same way that you did Robert like use this as our medium of communication and

(49:06):
activism at a high level so kind of feel like I went roundabout but that's that's basically why
I coach right now well I appreciate you sharing that John and I don't want to keep it here for a
moment um what would you be doing if you weren't doing this if you weren't coaching what would you
be doing well that's the next step Robert I think uh I'm realizing coaching's good I'll be very

(49:32):
blunt I'm making six figures a year coaching that's more money than I ever thought I would make going
down the finance career that I went down down the law enforcement I don't I don't need this much
money for me for my modest lifestyle I don't need it but to save the world I need a lot more
and I might be able to handle 50 or 60 or 70 clients but there's eventually a ceiling there

(49:55):
and I am very business oriented and I realize that anytime that you can't scale you know there's a
limit like I don't want to charge somebody two thousand bucks a month to be a client and then
have 70 of them like that's just not the life I want to live I want to I want to be like you I
want to be able to have an impact a very big impact and so I'm realizing that content creation

(50:17):
is one aspect and I don't just mean like catchy stuff on social media but like working with my
my uh business partner Alex Neuris on teaching people how to be vegan and save money because
everybody complains that it's so expensive to be vegan but then you got people like me saying no
it's not but I don't have a resource it's like this is where you buy your tvp in bulk this is why

(50:38):
oats are cheap and effective and healthy and really if you don't have any money at all you
can still eat beans and rice like I want to make it accessible to people I want to have a bigger
impact I want to be able to make products that can go to millions billions of people eventually
and and I can't do that if I'm so laser focused locked in one-on-one with clients so I'm not

(51:01):
planning to leave any of my clients I still have bills to pay so I'm not walking away from coaching
I am just realizing before I die I want to do as much as I humanly possibly can to impact the world
to make a change and I don't think coaching is the end-all be-all for me I think there's more
and so I want to keep exploring those opportunities and finding ways to to reach more people not

(51:27):
everybody wants a coach but I think everybody would agree that it doesn't make them feel good
to watch an animal die in front of them just about everybody yeah I I you you said some of the exact
same words that I that I just wrote down about exploring options and opportunities to make the
biggest impact and I I audit myself all the time too you know is it my public speaking is it my

(51:52):
writing is it my social media presence is it my in-person tour I mean the one-on-ones that I have
and it's not a few people it's hundreds per weekend sometimes thousands depending on the size
of the event what makes the biggest difference is it earning to give earning a high incomes that
you can give more I met with numerous people like literally numerous people over the weekend that

(52:16):
take that kind of approach their their work is not within the vegan industry there maybe it's
maybe in finance or banking or or legal services lawyers etc who make large income six or seven
figures and then they can just contribute larger amounts to the most effective animal charities in
the world or not even that they can contribute to those of course then they can support all these

(52:38):
other endeavors when they see somebody with the passion the uh the talent the skill to build a
brand and get that off the ground or to help them I mean I've had people help me pay for my apparel
when I used to sell that for 15 years to help get it off the ground or to help uh pay for my self
published book to get it out there then went on to sell tens of thousands of copies and earn

(53:00):
speaking engagements around the world or pay to help you know my my product bundles like I think
we're on you and I have so many similarities but also you have a similarity to somebody else I
don't know if you've thought about this I wrote this down out of just personal interest uh you
remind me a little bit of Ronnie Coleman Ronnie Coleman started his bodybuilding career because

(53:22):
he got a free gym membership uh you know you know that story probably Brian Dobson gave him a free
gym membership because he saw his potential man you got a lot of big muscle um training here for
free and Ronnie uh Ronnie honored that opportunity where he out in Arlington Texas got the uh the free
membership at the gym Brian Dobson's gym and and then Brian molded him in molded him into a

(53:46):
bodybuilder and the best bodybuilder and probably in the history of the world and you were doing
something similar you were you were taking these uh $50 uh payments from clients and $75 just to
just to pay your coach that you could keep going and that's the similarity I see you
with Ronnie Coleman where you had a passion for it you had talent you had a skill set in it and

(54:09):
you certainly had a desire and someone gave you the opportunity to kind of cover your bills to do it
and you know Ronnie went on to become the best in the world and and you've gone on to become one of
the best vegan bodybuilders in the history of the world and that's and that's a fact and and one of
the most most influential in in recent years especially so um I I commend you for that and

(54:30):
also John you and I have another thing in common um like we both acknowledge you use the word
that you are you know maybe more of a bottom level bodybuilder but you're a top level coach
I was the same thing I was kind of a I only won a couple shows and very small natural organizations

(54:50):
when there's just a handful of us on the stage I was kind of at the bottom of the pack in bodybuilding
but man I'm near the top when it comes to writing I'm just I know thyself and I am good at that and
you know that you're a good coach and a good networker and you said something that I say also
you said you bet on yourself you bet on yourself as a coach you bet on yourself as an entrepreneur

(55:13):
you bet on yourself as a networker and relationship builder I bet on myself as an author you know I bet
on myself as a national tour manager and for both of us it's worked out in ways that allow us to
yeah there's still struggle at times but we're able to live our purpose live our passion and

(55:35):
every single weekend I was in Birmingham you're the same weekend in Tampa we're doing the same
thing reaching audiences and inspiring change in the world and so those are some acknowledgments
and also I got another one from you that you said 20 your half of your client list is not fully vegan
we have to understand that perfectionism and purity actually doesn't help animals that much

(55:59):
more because people burn out all the time we have this recidivism rate that's way too high
for people who were vegan and pull away from it and and small incremental steps have been seen
have been scientifically shown to have longer lasting implications so I think you're doing
what statistics would show is a reasonable and beneficial approach to reducing animal suffering

(56:23):
through introducing plant-based items and vegan foods to omnivores we're seeing the benefits from
that so uh so thank you for that um I know we're getting I can't believe we're already getting
near the top of the hour um yeah I want you Rowan for a few more minutes go ahead can I I do want
to jump in and then we can we can make some time for what you're doing I feel like I need to pay

(56:44):
you for a therapy session because this was I was honest I told a few people I have no clue what I'm
talking about today I'm just gonna jump into this it's honestly been a non-stop morning for me most
days are and so it's not that I wasn't looking forward to this it was just like I'm already
overwhelmed but you've you've allowed me to be very present and very reflective it usually takes some

(57:05):
mind-altering substances to make me in this this mood or this this reflective state because it's
it's I voice it like this whether you reflect on your own or through psychedelics or something else
like when we're doing what you and I do Robert the tours the work the coaching the writing it's
almost like we're up against the wall putting brushstrokes but our canvas is at least 100 feet

(57:30):
across while we're putting the brushstrokes down we don't really see what we're doing
it's only when we take away the time from the work and actually walk back that we can see the
impact we've had to see this masterpiece because when you're right up in it it's hard to see your
impact sometimes and it can be discouraging I know for you and for me um I just wanted to throw that
out there and then get back and say like yeah I'm very blunt here and I respect the hell out of you

(57:58):
but neither of us are the world's best bodybuilders or not I mean I might be one of the best vegan
bodybuilders in the world but there's not many of us to really compete against so um like I I just
don't have that the large pool of people that they could stack up that way and so I think in a very
narrow viewpoint we can be really hard on ourselves and you know I train at one of the best gyms in

(58:21):
the world current and past Mr Olympias and uh top female competitors there as well and it's like
I'm always comparing myself to the best in the sport and I don't I don't measure up fully I think
some of that's just genetics I mean I've had clients that are vegan that just excel and it
blows my mind how quickly they're going to make progress and so I'm like yeah it's not the vegan
thing it's just genetics just like anything else like Shaquille O'Neal would probably have never

(58:44):
been a ballerina or a jockey on a horse I guess that's not very vegan anyways but like he was
kind of built for basketball and that's why he was able to do so well that genetics and hard work but
back to what we were saying earlier I'm trying to bring this back home we are packages you
you're a package you you were you were the bodybuilding vegan of your era and a writer

(59:11):
had you not been both I probably wouldn't speak and talk a whole lot like you because I wouldn't
read your book over a decade ago and I wouldn't have had all these desires to meet you because
I probably wouldn't have seen the couple magazines or couple articles written on you had you not
created vegan bodybuilding and fitness and created your own books and done all of that alongside the

(59:34):
bodybuilding so I think it's very integral that you do both and that's also probably I was going
to tell you why I speak a lot like you I listen to you at functions and I listen to how you have
inflections with your voice and how you engage the crowd and how you speak and when you pause and
smiling you're always smiling and I think the one thing that really hits home that I just straight

(59:57):
up steal from you is I went vegan because not because I knew what I wanted to eat but because
who I didn't want to eat I steal that from you and that's my sincerest form of flattery and respect
it's a great way of saying it and that's that's what it was for me I went vegan and I didn't tell
my mom I'm gonna eat these foods I was like these are the animals I don't want to eat anymore of so

(01:00:21):
yeah I've gotten a lot from you brother it's it's it's been a team effort here whether or not you
knew it well I appreciate that John and I've got so many more questions for you but we can wrap this
up in a few minutes so you can get on to your next meal there are some I have to ask though
you know so we're gonna get to those in a moment but you talked about a lot of the rewards that you

(01:00:46):
get from your work and we could even call this lightning round questions if you want some kind
of even though you can be introspective and go deep on some of these if we had more time and we'd
love to have you back for a follow-up sometime follow-up conversation but right now if I were
just to ask you John what's the best part of your job and why purpose purpose feeling like I matter

(01:01:08):
I mean the money money is good but like and that's not enough for me you'd have to pay me a lot to
walk away from this I I feel like I have a purpose making veganism more accessible more and not just
as a coach but like kind of the whole package like you know I'm you call me an influencer or marketer
or a promoter I like to call myself a promoter a promoter of vegan businesses it makes me feel like

(01:01:33):
I'll put it this way I have been tired all of 2024 I've been so tired every I wake up tired most
days and I don't see this changing and it's not from a lack of sleep it's just from every day is
jam-packed and I do this to myself I believe I will welcome death when I'm hopefully 80 or 90
and I'm like taking my last few breaths or I tell people like I really hope if it's a car crash that

(01:01:57):
I bleed out not that it's instant like I want a couple minutes even if it's in pain to just be
like okay rest is coming whatever's next whether that's a black hole or heaven or another world
something new is coming and I can take a break from this one I want every day to matter and I
genuinely feel like like being selective being on this podcast with with you Robert I feel like

(01:02:19):
it's a good use of my time and I want to be very intentional with every moment I have until
I no longer have moments and and that's just how I live I don't want to live with regret
so that's what I get from my various roles that I do each day and you live by the slogan
best day ever like you really try to get the most out of the 1440 minutes we have each day

(01:02:41):
there it is have the best day ever tattooed right on your forearm for those who can't see it
John speaking of the best day ever what excites you the most
well this vegan foodie fest Tampa was literally top 10 best days of my entire life and I say that
because it was it checked off both boxes it checked off what does John want to do today box

(01:03:06):
and what's the best for the world box and I think it was both on the John side my mom drove two
hours my girlfriend drove over an hour and barely got to see me the whole day but she was there with
a smile Alex Walsh who runs Karma Farm Sanctuary came out with him and his partner one of my former
clients and best friends my business partner Alex Nearest and best friend Sean Russell my brand

(01:03:28):
manager and best friend many many of my other good close friends in the vegan community came out some
people that had met me the week before at the gym and never eaten vegan in their lives and I was
the first person that ever came out and tried vegan food and supported vegan businesses and told me
I get you dude my dad used to make me kill goats at seven years old slitting their throat with a

(01:03:51):
knife and it didn't sit well then and I got to do something a little different I think I might try
some more food like this like all of those combined made it the best day ever it was around people I
love and feeling like I'm making a difference um pretty emotional day for me actually I just
genuinely connected with so many people and and felt like today was good today was a small step

(01:04:16):
forward in the right direction so those kind of things being around the people I love I wish you
could have been but you know what I'm glad you were somewhere else you were having an impact
somewhere else that's the thing we're not always going to be at the same event because there's
more than one um and turning turning what would have been had I not I I think other people could
have done what I did I don't think it was very hard back to betting on yourself we can do so much

(01:04:38):
more than we believe whether it's lifting a heavier weight or organizing a vegan foodie fast in two
weeks we can do more than we realize but had somebody not stepped up it would have been a
letdown for the vegan community and for really the world at large in my opinion yeah well thanks for
sharing that John I've got just about four more questions in this lightning let's continue on

(01:05:00):
with this best day ever theme so what's your best day ever in the gym what's your favorite muscle
group to train like what what excites you like man it's leg day it's back day it's chest day it's
cardio whatever it is like the day that you look forward to the most and actually maybe for my own
personal interest if there is one the day that you dread like it's all man it's the cardio or

(01:05:24):
it's leg day and I just know I got butter because I don't know if that you know thousand pound you
know leg press is going back up today if I've got it in me like I know I feel that I get the nervousness
when I'm doing the three plates on decline bench I'm not that big of a guy that's a lot of weight
for me if it's gonna get stuck on my neck or not I I get excited that day and nervous and anxious

(01:05:48):
so what's your favorite muscle group to train and why favorite it sounds silly but it's probably
gonna be arms I mean like I one it's not that painful like if we're being real two I wear a
3x shirt and I put one on yesterday after arms and I was like ooh sleeves are getting a little tight
I'm growing like I'm feeling good and I just ran through with one of the best trainers in the world

(01:06:13):
Adam Brammer here at MI 40 a two-hour arm day that is just phenomenal it's it's it's a lot of lengthened
partials and in training style that's kind of new for me someone ran through that yesterday
really enjoyed it really really solid day and the one I dread the one I hate is too strong of a word

(01:06:34):
but legs I I know people think that I love training legs because I have big legs but oh my gosh no I
get anxious Robert I don't have a meal after this podcast I have legs and that's why I'm not nervous
to be on here with an idol of mine like this is easy compared to legs legs is the hardest thing in
the world and the good thing about legs is in a few hours I won't have to do them again for a week

(01:06:58):
but that few hours I'm gonna get nauseous I'm gonna be in pain I've actually had three injuries this
year and they've all been training legs and so I need to scale it back a bit but you're right
there are a number of times where I not only get scared if I don't know if I can do the reps I need
to do and then I'm gonna kick myself for the next week but it's also like if I mess up at all here
there's a thousand pounds of play my knee tendon my whatever my quad like I'm trying to do 200

(01:07:26):
pound dumbbell rdls this year 200 pounds in each hand pop the hamstring and this is an hour and a
half into a workout on my second set like it shouldn't really be happening then I'm like it's
just a lot of weight so yeah legs legs scares me um and if it doesn't scare you you're not training
hard enough I'll put it out there so yeah and you're lifting like a forklift I mean so like

(01:07:46):
for people to understand that I threw that number out a thousand pounds but I mean you're literally
lifting a thousand pounds I mean you're you're pressing a thousand pounds and your legs are
incredibly massive and strong and there that comes a lot of responsibility and of course
we always want to think good thoughts you know that our tendons and ligaments and muscles will
hold up I've been there a bunch of times too pec injury wrist injury you know when you're that's

(01:08:10):
just it comes with the territory that that's with any athlete any sport whatsoever it happens all
the time whether you're a gymnast or football player or a bodybuilder a baseball player it
those are potential situations but um a power lifter shared a great story for me after I tore
my quad for the first time he goes oh brother he puts his hand on my shoulder he's like I'll tell
you the secret though if you if you want this to never happen again I'm like yeah yeah tell me

(01:08:34):
because I want to do that again he's like just stay home and watch Netflix you won't take your
quad and I was like oh yeah you've got bigger purpose than that you got a bigger purpose than
that yeah I'm gonna stay in the gym so John uh let's wrap up here with a few more um speaking
again this best day ever what's the best what's like in a nutshell as quick as you want to answer

(01:08:56):
it uh what's the foundation of your diet like what's your favorite food your go-to I know you
carry you carry food around everywhere that's the bodybuilders do like what are you eating after
you train legs today you know what are you going to nourish yourself with man I'm weird I know a
lot of people do protein shakes but I'm like I want to have an extra meal so I'll just make the

(01:09:17):
protein powder with with some water and then make a protein pudding and it's like it's better than
a shake that'll be the first meal after what do I really love I'm kind of like uh like a sweet
protein like like like a cream of rice bowl with protein powder or like a smoothie bowl or I'll take
protein powder with peanut butter powder and mix that with like some vegan yogurt and make like a

(01:09:40):
stick like protein peanut butter pudding and I'll either put jelly or some sugar-free chocolate
syrup and dip rice cakes in it I'm kind of weird like I I really like the sweet protein meals or
like a savory dish like if I go out to eat I like either vegan pancakes or uh vegan pizza usually
usually those would be my two like kind of like cheat meals that I enjoy um the probably yeah like

(01:10:04):
the meal that I look forward to the most every day is my pre-workout meal which is cream of rice
with protein powder and then I'll add other things so today I added um some canned pumpkin and some
blueberries and some almond butter and like it might maybe it sounds boring but like I would I
would if that met all my nutritional guidelines I'd eat that every every meal of every day but
anyways yeah well John I appreciate it I've just got really two more for you and then obviously

(01:10:30):
having you share where to find you online and maybe a final word about the vegan foodie fest
and where people can learn more about it especially those who are in the region
interested in attending or even flying in I traveled too far away to attend events I might
even see you there in Miami but uh really briefly uh how do you define health
not bodybuilding um I got pause for laughter here because I totally I totally agree with you man

(01:10:58):
I agree with you after doing it for decades whether you're natural or you use drugs it's not that
healthy for you physically right it's not that healthy for you like for your joints and stuff
if you're lifting heavy enough it's not that healthy for you mentally if you get bodybuilding
uh like body dysmorphia and eating disorders so not bodybuilding but I think I think health is

(01:11:19):
is a lot like like veganism like actually maybe not for me like there's just no cheating on
veganism like you know I'll have a cheat meal and it'd be a vegan pizza but I won't have a cheat real
hamburger right um I guess it's like like what is what is realistic and like what can you actually
do like I'm not going to be so vegan that I never drive a car there's pollution from a car and then

(01:11:41):
you probably hit some bugs on your windshield like it would I think detract from my overall purpose
if I gave that up kind of the same thing with with health like I eat pretty clean at home I don't keep
a lot of junk food here just because I'll eat it so I know myself but when I go out I I do and I tell
my clients even the strictest ones that we're gonna have one life enrichment meal per week

(01:12:04):
and that means even if you love being on your meal plan you'll never cheat because you're a robot
take your dang partner your wife or your husband out for dinner once a week so you'll have some
sense of normalcy go to a vegan place support that business use that as a life enrichment for
the business and for your partner even if it's not for you um I guess like what does health mean
just doing whatever is reasonable to stay healthy if you're if you're a bodybuilder you probably

(01:12:28):
offseason need to be still doing cardio there's certain supplements that you take for my enhanced
guys the supplement list is like four times as long some of these guys spend more on health
supplements than they do on drugs because there are steps that we can do to make this safer it's
kind of I guess health is like riding a motorcycle you can be like Florida man and go out and find

(01:12:48):
a man and go out and flip flops and a tank top and pray for the best or you can buy your bike you can
drive it around in a trailer take it to a track where there's no other cars check all your fluids
make sure there's nothing on the track put on your helmet your jacket your boots your pants
and then ride and it's still dangerous but at least you're taking the precautions that are

(01:13:08):
reasonable that's that's kind of how I view health it's like you could lock yourself in a box and
never go outside but then you're not really living life either it's a trade-off but I try to
encourage people to take their health into account whenever possible yeah that's it that's a good
analogy and a good story speaking of stories John Thomas the bodybuilding vegan last question my man

(01:13:32):
John if there was a movie made about your life who would play you
you that's a good question um
man that is a good question Robert uh we're going with Joaquin Phoenix because uh he rocks no um

(01:13:52):
he'd have to bulk up again he's got the compassion he's got the compassion down but he'd have to bulk
up a bit to play you I could I could coach him we could do this um I've joked that maybe one day
I'll work with vegan celebrities and you know and help them look the best for their roles but um
don't manifest that into reality don't joke about it make about you know make it happen you can do

(01:14:12):
that yeah if it would change the world in the best way yeah yeah I would be I mean if Joaquin
Phoenix happens to call me and says hey I got a role that I need to look jacked in like I'm not
going to say no um man I don't know who who looks like you tell me who looks like me I don't or like
well I hear correct me if I'm wrong isn't Dave Bautista vegan now I mean that guy was jacked pro

(01:14:36):
wrestler and he's I heard he's vegan or plant-based and uh he's dropped a bunch of different roles but
he was like the biggest jacked pro wrestler turned actor he's in some major movies and I hear he's
even plant-based and so um that could be or or when Hugh Jackman was uh plant-based he's he goes
off and on plant-based but not plant-based um you know you represent you well I mean I I think a

(01:15:06):
Hugh Jackman is a good looking guy um we could go with that um or or yeah Dave he was huge I know he
this is why he I think he's really cool he cares so much about acting that he lost a bunch of
muscle intentionally so that people would take him more serious as an actor like that's that's a man

(01:15:27):
that's dedicated to his craft and I think that's cool so that's rock now yeah maybe maybe like
Dave Bautista it could be it could be like a a timeline and maybe I'll get a young aspiring
vegan bodybuilder to be me coming up and then we'll have it'll switch to later on and it'll be
um you know Hugh Jackman being me a little bit jacked but older and then at the very end Dave

(01:15:48):
Bautista could be me because he'll be very old and a little bit more slender doing other things
other than bodybuilding but that that is a again Robert this has been I've been podcasting for
years now I've probably been on not including my own podcast over 100 podcasts and you've asked
some questions that have never been asked before so you you knocked this one out of the park brother
well I appreciate that my good man uh last thing is where we can find you online

(01:16:12):
can't I'm invisible you type in John Thomas on Google you're never gonna find me uh my parents
gave me that name and it's impossible to find me by that just about but if you put bodybuilding
vegan anywhere especially if you put the two words together if you do bodybuilding vegan without a
space you can find me on YouTube Instagram TikTok um even the bodybuilding vegan.com you'll find me

(01:16:34):
there but that's that's usually where people start um I'm pretty overwhelmed at times but I do get
back to dms on Instagram so if somebody's listening and has a pertinent question feel free to reach
out I don't bite it might just take me a day or two to reply but I get back to y'all um if you have
a coaching question or think that you might want to work with me uh the bodybuilding vegan.com is a

(01:16:55):
good place to reach out at um yeah yeah I'm I'm in all the places and I am the bodybuilding vegan
it's funny they're sorry real quick there is a bodybuilding vegan without the the on Instagram
and they haven't posted since like 2010 and they only have like seven posts and I was so upset in

(01:17:16):
2011 or whenever I created my account that I couldn't create bodybuilding because it was
already taken and I didn't realize until recently that Danny Taylor all the way back there like 15
years ago commented on one of their posts and then I found it again when I was searching to see if
that account was still there I'm like oh my god Danny posted on there but anyways um it created
me to go to the bodybuilding vegan and I had no clue this was where it was going to go but that's

(01:17:40):
where it is now and thank you for wearing the shirt Robert and for being impactful. And here
you are as the bodybuilding vegan like the Ohio State University you are the you are the guy you're
doing it on another level uh you're bringing muscle size on another level uh coaching on another
level doing things differently than others and you're representing yourself your true authentic

(01:18:03):
self and I think really another level as well and I want to thank you for that for bringing your
authenticity everywhere you go you wear it on your sleeve you are who you are and uh and I love you
for that so I want to thank you and for everyone tuning in to the Plant Powered Athlete podcast
I've been Robert Cheek this has been my wonderful guest John Thomas the bodybuilding vegan please

(01:18:23):
find him online check in with him about coaching opportunities support his work buy his apparel go
to his vegan foodie fest in Miami on January 25th and I hope to see you there too John thank you so
much for your time today now go get that leg workout in and go get that big meal protein
protein coming soon. I'll text you about it I'll let you know how it goes thank you Robert and you

(01:18:44):
remember all of you anybody that can hear this voice have the best day ever. You got it thank
you until next time take care everyone bye-bye.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}John Thomas | Why John Thomas Tattooed ‘Vegan’ on His Head | PPAP40