Episode Transcript
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Natalie (00:00):
Hi. My name's Natalie
D'Alessandro. Welcome to the
very first episode of PlantRants. I've been talking about
launching this podcast for awhile now, and I'm super
excited, a bit nervous, tofinally get started. The idea of
this podcast series is to chatwith cannabis industry insiders.
If you've ever done this, youmay have noticed that some of us
love to get on a plant rant, meincluded. Usually though, just
(00:23):
beyond the frustration of achallenge, there's a really
great opportunity. And that'seventually what I want this
podcast to focus on. Gettingthese rants off our chest is
really important, and I love it,and I love listening to it, but
so is coming up with a plan tomake sure we aren't stuck in a
cycle of frustration. We cancomplain about things and
nothing will change, But what'scool about this is that just
(00:46):
beyond industry wide challenges,I think there lies the
opportunity for collaboration.
And together, I believe we canaddress common frustrations in a
joyful and productive way. And Ithink most of us would agree
that what we want is for anyonewho could benefit from medicinal
cannabis to be able to have easyand equitable access. So in the
(01:08):
spirit of start low and go slow,I'm easing into this podcast
series super low and incrediblyslow. This episode is literally
just me reading an article, thatwas published in The Age behind
a paywall. No opinions andcertainly no video.
Anyone who knows me knows youcould absolutely tell what I'm
thinking if you see my face. Letme know if my voice belies what
(01:30):
I'm thinking, but I will try anddo my best to read with a
neutral tone. I love the factthat I stumbled over that. I'm
gonna do this in one takebecause I can't figure out how
else to do it without, killingthe perfectionist in me. So
because this is my passion, I'msubscribed to most cannabis
media.
Let me know if there's anythingyou're interested in hearing,
and I'll do my best to record itfor you. I think it's really
(01:53):
important that we have openaccess to anything that's going
on around us in the media ifwe're in the industry. This will
be super helpful while I find mypodcast voice and hone my
skills. And as always, I loveall feedback, so please share
your thoughts with me. You canfind me on LinkedIn or request
an invitation to our events atthe Viz Medicinal website.
(02:13):
In future episodes of PlantRants, I can't wait to share the
rants of my favorite doctors,nurses, pharmacists, MSLs,
growers, and the colorful CEOs,and more. But for now, no
opinions, just the news. A quickheads up, I have been told I
speak very fast. If I speak toofast for you, try adjusting your
playback speed. If you normallylisten at 1.2 or 1.5 and you're
(02:36):
a fast talker like me, you mightneed to slow it down again.
In this podcast, we'll delveinto the important topics about
medicinal cannabis and itsportrayal in the media.
Unfortunately, the media, failsto report okay, so that's not
actually what we're doing. We'renot delving into important
topics about medicinal cannabis.I'm just reading you the news.
(02:57):
So one thing I did wanna mentionthough is that unfortunately,
the media often fails to reporton medicinal cannabis
positively, and I wanna changethat narrative.
I'll be hosting a webinar in thecoming weeks for industry and
health care professionals. It'sa cannabis industry media
masterclass to help tounderstand media dynamics and
learn how to use the mediainterest to our advantage. And
(03:19):
by advantage, I mean ensuringthat medicinal cannabis is
available to all those who needit and that they can access it
readily. So without further ado,here is the article in The Age.
Thanks so much for joining metoday.
If you enjoy what you hear,please share it with others who
might benefit. And if you'reinterested in attending our
media master class, pleaseregister for an invitation via
(03:41):
our website atvismedicinal.com.That's v I z m e d icinal.com.
The age. How big business pushesa product it's not allowed to
advertise?
Strict laws forbid the promotionof prescription medicines, but
(04:01):
medicinal cannabis companies aregetting creative and business is
booming. By Angus Thompson andPatrick Begley, May 22 2024,
11:30 AM. Then there's an imageof a superimposed Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtle over the top of acannabis leaf with the caption,
medicinal cannabis clinics haveadopted unconventional
(04:22):
advertising tactics. And theimage is by Monique Westerman.
It's not your typical act ofcorporate generosity, giving
away $3,000,000 worth ofcannabis.
That's what's on offer fromStanley Brothers, a Colorado
based company that says it hasmade more than $1,500,000 in
medicinal cannabis sales sinceentering the Australian market
(04:43):
in January. The family businesshas made a fortune in the United
States selling Charlotte's Web,a cannabis oil named after
Charlotte Figgy, a young girlwhose parents found cannabis oil
reduced seizures caused byDravet syndrome, a form of
epilepsy. Now the company isspruiking free cannabis medicine
for Australian patients withininverted commas, life limiting
(05:04):
illnesses and serious medicalconditions, closed captions, who
cannot afford treatment. ButStanley Brothers' philanthropic
gesture has caught the eye ofthe therapeutic goods
administration as the medicine'swatchdog grapples with the
explosive growth of Australia'smedicinal cannabis market, one
of the most lucrative in theworld. And then there's a
(05:27):
picture of a Dolphin RugbyLeague player from his nostrils
to just below his nipple lineand a a piece of masking tape
covering over the Alterna Leiflogo with a caption that says, a
Dolphins player last month whosejersey was taped over to block
the AlternaLeaf logo.
The logo has since been removedentirely, and that's a Getty
(05:49):
image. A crop of entrepreneurswith backgrounds and sectors
including medicine, law, realestate, gambling, and crypto
have capitalized on this boom,setting up dedicated, in
inverted commas, cannabisclinics, closed commas, that
both prescribe and sellmedicinal cannabis products. As
a prescription medicine,cannabis cannot be advertised to
(06:10):
the public, but the clinics,many of which have used coded
references to, in invertedcommas, plant based medicine,
promote themselves throughunconventional means, including
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtlesinspired ads, a cannabis event
called Buds and Bowls, and evenan NRL sponsorship. Aggressive
(06:31):
advertising tactics employed byparts of the industry have also
attracted scrutiny frompsychiatrists who are concerned
that products containing THC,the main psychoactive ingredient
in the cannabis plant, are beinginappropriately prescribed to
young patients of at risk ofpsychosis. In the case of
Stanley Brothers and itsgiveaway, a TGA spokesperson
(06:51):
said, in inverted commas, theuse of testimonials and
endorsements about medicinalcannabis and offering or
distributing samples ofmedicinal cannabis products to
the public are likely to bepromotional and raise concerns,
closed caption.
And then there's an image of agrowing budding flower that
looks quite mature. Oh, and thecaption says, a mature cannabis
(07:13):
plant growing legally on a farmin New South Wales, and the
image is from from JanieBarrett. Stanley Brothers met
the TGA earlier this month todiscuss the regulator's
concerns. It's important toclarify that the Give Back
initiative is a charitablefinancial assistance program
aimed at helping people in need,and we do not need to consider
(07:35):
it to constitute advertising orsampling as defined by
regulatory standards. Now thatwas a quote by director of
marketing, Mark DeLuca, that hesaid in a statement.
There's a heading exponentialgrowth. Since its legalization
in 2016, doctors have writtenmore than 1,000,000 cannabis
scripts to help with problemsranging from chronic pain to
(07:56):
anxiety, sleep issues, anddepression. And then there's an
ad for top 5 ASX Mining StocksTO Buy. Many patients are paying
between $203100 a month forproducts ranging from oils to
flowers in an industry worth 100of 1,000,000 of dollars. There's
a picture of Barry Lambert withhis granddaughter who donated
(08:18):
$33,000,000 to cannabisresearch, and that's the
caption.
And, the image is by JamesBrickwood. So far, the TGA has
approved only 2 cannabisproducts, one to treat muscle
rigidity caused by multiplesclerosis and another to
alleviate rare forms ofchildhood epilepsy. Prominent
investor, Barry Lambert, and hiswife, Joy, whose granddaughter
(08:39):
suffered from one of theepilepsy syndromes, has donated
$33,000,000 to Sydney Universityto research cannabis treatments
and launched his own cannabiscompany on the ASX in 2019.
Former rugby league star AndrewJohns has used cannabis oil to
reduce pain and seizures, whichhe says may be linked to
concussions he sustained whileplaying the game. Johns now
(09:02):
works as an adviser to LevinHealth, a company organizing
clinical trials to researchcannabis's effect on chronic
pain, concussion, and sportsinjuries.
But today, almost all medicalcannabis products are prescribed
off label as they do not sorry.As they have not undergone TGI
assessment for safety, quality,and effectiveness. Open
(09:23):
quotation. It is an unapprovedtherapeutic that has had an
extraordinary rate ofprescribing, close quotations,
said doctor Christine Hallinan,a research fellow at the
University of Melbourne.Hallinan is concerned that
cannabis has come to be seen asa panacea, and that the medical
system's ability to monitoradverse effects has not kept
(09:45):
pace with an, inverted commas,exponential rise in prescribing,
driven by word-of-mouth and thestreamlined access offered by
telehealth companies.
She goes on to say, the minutepeople put medicinal cannabis in
a search bar, up come all thesecompanies, she says. Some in the
industry have borrowed elementsof stoner culture to attract
(10:05):
customers, and then there's animage of a turtle, I believe
it's Donatello, he's the purpleone, with a splash in a green
neon that says learn more now,and the caption says part of an
ad for the Healing LeavesClinic, which employed imagery
reminiscent of the TeenageMutant Ninja Turtles cartoon,
and the image was supplied.Healing Leaves has promoted its
(10:28):
telehealth service with theslogan, come out of your shell,
paired with charactersreminiscent of Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles, the eightiescartoon character that once
featured in a government adwarning teenagers off marijuana.
We get it, bro, one ad said topotential customers who might be
feeling their age. Hey.
We're all going to the sameplace. Why not enjoy the time
(10:49):
you have here? Founder, VictorCaprio, who also works as a real
estate agent on the Gold Coast,said he had no comment. Last
month, several cannabiscompanies sponsored and gave
presentations at Buds and Bowls,a Brisbane event that included
DJ sets, lawn bowls, and a tentin which patients could vaporize
their medicines. And thenthere's an image of the Buds and
(11:10):
Bowls promotional poster with acaption that says the buds and
bowls event was sponsored byseveral cannabis companies,
including telehealth clinics,and the image was supplied.
The TGA said it was aware of theevent, and while it doesn't
comment on individual cases, itsadvertising rules apply to in
person events, speeches, andbanners just as they apply on
social media and online. JohnTay, medical director and owner
(11:35):
of the telehealth clinicPlantman, said his business'
sponsorship of Buds and Bowlswas educational and advocacy
based, not advertising, and theevent was a closed forum. Tay
said PlantMed spends nothing onsocial media marketing and fully
complies with TGA rules, whichdisadvantages the businesses
(11:56):
compared with companies thathave large advertising budgets
and a willingness to pushboundaries. Opening quote
inverted commas. Some of thelarger companies have got very
deep pockets, very largebacking, and the distinct
disadvantage comes because wecomply and we follow the
regulations, and we don'tadvertise directly to patients,
(12:16):
he said.
The legislation, by accident, Ithink, is directing people to
the less reputable recreationalside of medicinal cannabis to
the clinics which have gotstrong medical boundaries.
Sorry. I'll read that again. Thelegislation by accident, I
think, is directing people tothe less reputable recreational
side of medicinal cannabis tothe clinics which haven't got
(12:37):
strong medical boundaries, closequotations. Australia's biggest
clinic.
One company with a sizablemarketing budget is AlternaLeaf,
the biggest clinic in Australia,which boasts more than a 150,000
patients and soaring revenue.This year, it partnered with the
dolphins NRL team, the firstprofessional sports sponsorship
(12:57):
by a cannabis company inAustralia, but the dolphins have
since decided to removeAlternaLeaf as a Jersey sponsor
following inquiries from theTGA, which last month launched
legal action against thecannabis business in the federal
court. The legal complaint,which did not mention the NRL
sponsorship alleged that partsof AlternaLeaf website, videos
(13:17):
of patient testimonials, socialmedia posts, and a light
projection the company installedin the Sydney CBD breached
advertising laws. The TGAcontends that unauthorized
advertising of medicinalcannabis poses a risk of harm to
patients who may choose cannabisover other more suitable
products and who may be swayedby information that fails to
(13:39):
provide a complete picture ofbenefits versus risks. A
spokesperson for Alternately'sparent company, Montoux, said it
would vigorously depend bendthese proceedings, but otherwise
declined to comment on thelitigation, which also named
managing director ChristopherStrauch, I don't know how to
pronounce his name, as arespondent.
(14:00):
The German born Strauchcofounded Montu in 2019, having
previously created token 2049,cryptocurrency conference
business that hosts events inDubai and Singapore. He remains
an investor in the business,which has also raised more than
$5,000,000 in crowdsourcedfunds. Corporate records show
Montu earned $96,000,000 inrevenue in Australia last
(14:22):
financial year, an annualincrease of 471%. The company
spent $7,000,000 on marketing,including ads on social media,
TV, radio, and buses. Late lastyear, it was telling potential
suppliers that Alternaive hadadded roughly 40,000 new
patients in the past 3 months,and demand for prescriptions had
(14:42):
nearly doubled in the previousquarter.
Open quotation marks. They'vebecome a monolith in what seems
like overnight, says PhoebeMacLeod, a former lawyer who
started the medicinal cannabisbusiness, Heyday Medical, with
her GP brother, open quotationmarks. You've got to question,
how do they attract that manypatients so quickly, close
(15:03):
quotation marks. McLeod saysmost of the industry is made up
of responsible companies thatare compliant with the TGA
rules. She describes AlternaLeafas an aggressive marketer with a
big budget buying up Googleadvertising on rivals so that
when people search her company'sname, they'll turn leave for
peers as the first result.
The rise of single producttelehealth clinics is not unique
(15:26):
to cannabis. Others have sprungup around the weight loss drug
Ozempic and nicotine vapes, butthey are a departure from the
standard model in which doctorsprescribe and pharmacists
dispense. Australian MedicalAssociation guidelines state
that doctors should generallyavoid dispensing medicines they
prescribe unless the benefit topatients outweigh any safety
(15:48):
concerns. Where dispensing by adoctor does occur, it should be
based on clinical need and notfor the purpose of material gain
as this introduces the risk ofreal or perceived conflicts of
interest, the guideline states.McLeod says Heyday Medical
manages conflicts by prominentlydisclosing its financial
interests and allowing patientsto opt out of being prescribed
(16:08):
products developed by thebusiness.
But alternately, spokeswomanKelly King said in a statement,
there was no conflict ofinterest in a business
prescribing a product it alsosold. Open quotation marks. We
are building a much neededinfrastructure and filling the
very gaps in the system thatotherwise have let patients
down, King said. We cannot anddo not interfere with doctors
(16:29):
prescribing judgment, nor do werequire patients to fulfill
their script with our network ofdispensing pharmacies. Close
quotations.
Alterna leaf came under fire in2022 after the news site,
cannabis, reported a communitymanager working for the cannabis
company had approached medicalusers on social media. Open
(16:50):
quotation. We've got a few newflowers out, close quotation,
the manager wrote, offering 2tubs of free cannabis and a GP
appointment to obtain aprescription in exchange for
reviews on social mediaplatforms such as Reddit,
TikTok, and Instagram. And thenthere's an ad that says 3 best
dividend stocks on ASX.AlternaLeaf declined to answer
(17:11):
questions about the results ofan investigation it had promised
to undertake into the incident.
We do not wanna see cowboys.Jeremy Buckingham, who
represents the LegalisedCanada's Party in New South
Wales Upper House, says the vastmajority of companies were doing
the right thing, abiding by TGAregulations and plowing money
into research and development.He says the rules around
(17:32):
obtaining a license are verystrict, but authorities are not
doing enough to ensure companieswere complying. Open quotation
marks. We do not want to seecowboys who are motivated by
profit putting the integrity ofthe system at risk, he says.
Too many patients too many usersrely on medicinal cannabis,
close quotation. And then thereis a picture of Legalised
(17:53):
Cannabis. MLC Jeremy Buckinghamsaid most companies in the
medicinal cannabis industryacted responsibly, and the image
is from Brooke Mitchell. TheRoyal Australia and New Zealand
College of Psychiatrists orranzzcp wrote to AUSDOC, a trade
publication for doctors, inAugust after one of its
(18:14):
psychiatry newsletters includedan advertisement claiming
medicinal cannabis could helpwith PTSD, schizophrenia,
anxiety, and depression,encouraging doctors to prescribe
with a company called Canvue.Ozdoc later apologized saying
the advertisement should neverhave been published and that it
was reviewing its advertisingprocess to prevent a repeat
(18:35):
occurrence.
Doctor Brett Emmerson, chair ofthe RANZCP's Queensland branch,
said he was receiving regularreports of people with
schizophrenia who were not beingproperly screened before they
were prescribed THC, the mainpsychoactive compound found in
the cannabis plant. Openquotations. Our view is that the
(18:55):
medicinal cannabis industry isbecoming akin to both the
tobacco industry and the alcoholindustry, Emerson said. Their
business depends on people, Ilost my train of thought. Their
business depends on people usingtheir products, and there seems
to be this ever expanding use ofmedicinal cannabis for a variety
of conditions for which there isno evidence.
(19:16):
I lost my train of thoughtbecause I wanted to go back to
my intro and outro, and I can'tfind my outro. Wait one second.
Let's see if I've got it. No.There is no outro.
If you enjoy what you heard,please share it with others. And
if you're interested inattending our media master
class, that's coming up to talkabout, how we should be
(19:38):
interacting with media and giveus a bit better understanding of
it, please register at ourwebsite, vismedicinal.com.
Thanks so much, and I lookforward to your feedback.