March 28, 2025 • 58 mins
Roey, a music industry marketing professional and lo-fi producer, uses his "dad jazz" instrumental music to fund native plant installations across Nashville and beyond.
• Growing up in a family of avid gardeners and nature enthusiasts instilled a deep appreciation for native plants and natural spaces
• Names his songs after native plants and uses all proceeds to purchase seeds from Roundstone, a native plant seed farm in Kentucky
• Transformed his yard into a 4,000 square foot wildflower haven that serves as both beautiful habitat and practical barrier from busy streets
• Works with schools, city planners, and neighborhoods to create native plant installations that help reduce flooding and filter pollutants
• Explains how native plants require less maintenance than conventional landscaping while supporting local wildlife and ecosystems
• Demonstrates how urban wildflower installations can help reconnect people with nature and create community around conservation
• Emphasizes that "done is better than perfect" when it comes to conservation efforts and environmental projects
Check out Rooey's lo-fi music on Spotify, Apple Music, or at rooey.co and see how music and native plants can transform urban environments into thriving ecosystems.
As always, thanks so much for listening! Subscribe, rate, and review Planthropology on your favorite podcast app. It helps the show keep growing and reaching more people! As a bonus, if you review Planthropology on Apple Podcasts or Podchaser and send me a screenshot of it, I'll send you an awesome sticker pack!
Planthropology is written, hosted, and produced by Vikram Baliga. Our theme song is "If You Want to Love Me, Babe, by the talented and award-winning composer, Nick Scout. Midroll tunes are by Rooey.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is up?
Plant people.
It's time once more for thePlanthropology Podcast, the
shore.
We dive in the lives andcareers of some very cool plant
people to figure out why they doand what keeps them coming back
for more.
I'm Vikram Baliga, your host andhumble guide in this journey
through the sciences and, asalways, my dearest friends.
I am just so darn excited to bewith you today and we have got
a good one for you today.
(00:21):
Do you know what lo-fi is?
Think of like a cozy video gamethat you cuddle up on the couch
with a blanket and grab a cupof tea or coffee and go to town
on either pruning some roses ormaking an island and being
forever beholden to a tanuki orsomething like that, and you're
in the ballpark.
Well, it's wonderful, it'sjazzy, and my guest today is a
(00:46):
producer of exactly that.
So today you're going to hearfrom a musician and a music
industry expert named Rui, and Iwould give you his government
name, but I don't want tobecause Rui is such a great name
.
So Rui works again in the musicindustry and he produces great
lo-fi and brings in his passionfor native plants and for
(01:07):
landscapes and for conservationinto it, so he actually raises
money to buy wildflower seed andremediate different pieces of
land and do so much cool stuffthrough his music, and I want to
let him tell you more about it.
So I'm not going to talk toomuch more about it, but Rui and
I have been friends for a littlewhile.
We met, I think, on Instagramand I think just have a lot of
shared interests and a lot ofshared life experience, and I
(01:29):
had so much fun getting to talkto him today, so I don't want to
ruin the surprise in this greatconversation, so let's get into
it.
So, grab some headphones, turnon the dad jazz, cozy up on the
couch and get ready for episode115 of the Planthropology
Podcast Native Landscapes, lo-fi, dad Jazz and the rungs on the
ladder.
All right?
(02:12):
Well, rui, thanks for being ontoday.
I'm so excited to get to talkto you.
We've been sort of internetfriends for a while and it's
always fun getting to meetpeople that I enjoy talking to
and actually get to talk, sortof face-to-face yeah thanks for
having me.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It's definitely weird to like or maybe weird's not
the right word, but fun to likemeet people that the algorithm
for lack of a better termbrought together right Like.
I think the algorithm gets alot of hate, but it also does
some good stuff sometimes, soI'm glad to be friends and be
talking in sort of real life,almost real life as close as it
(02:45):
gets.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Right, as close as it gets?
Yeah, from a distance for sure.
Well, tell us about yourself.
Where'd you grow up?
What'd you study?
What are you into?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, so I grew up in Los Angeles and lived in you
know what was at the time ofessentially like a sheep herding
town North of Los Angeles, Likewe used to shut down main
street for a couple of daysevery year and heard you know a
couple, you know five, 10,000head of sheep through town.
And then over time, it, youknow, continued to grow as
(03:12):
California has, and I eventuallyfound my way up to Northern
California and I met my wifethere.
When did we meet?
What year is it now?
Where am I in time and space?
I know we've been married for13 years.
So a minute ago, just like ashort jaunt ago, we met in
northern california and we metat a ministry school, okay, and
(03:33):
then from there we moved toportland, oregon, and I worked
in live sound and productionthings like that before slowly,
you know, finding my way intomusic marketing and so for like
the last 15 years I've workedfor mostly major labels and like
large entertainment companiesdoing marketing.
(03:55):
Nothing exciting in marketing,it's mostly like ad buying and
like data analysis stuff sonerdy stuff, but fun stuff for
me.
And then we moved here toNashville in 2018.
We have two kids and we havefamily out here and I work in
the music industry and so I wasconstantly traveling out here
and we just finally were likewe're doing life on hard mode
(04:16):
and so we moved from PortlandOregon, which we love Portland
Oregon, but it's impossible tohave a vegetable garden there
because your growing season isvery short and everything is
dark all the time.
So we I've really loved livingin Nashville because we have a
super long growing.
I don't know how dissimilar itis to where you are, but our
(04:38):
growing season is super long andwe get lots of really heavy
rainstorms, so there's not likea ton of need for irrigation and
things like that.
And you just kind of put it inthe like if you don't plant
something in the ground here,something will grow.
It's usually stuff you don'twant.
So we do lots of gardening as aresult and, yeah, that has.
(05:00):
We've really loved gardeninghere.
That being said, I've had agarden bed in my parents' garden
since I was five.
Right, we have always had hugegardens and whether it's
ornamentals or vegetables or amixture thereof, and even when
my wife and I were young andmarried and living in apartments
(05:21):
and we would rent communitygarden plots in Portland and try
to grow stuff.
So, like we've always beengardeners and I guess all this
meandering intro to say is likewhat leads to the current
iteration of Rui, if you will,is you know, a few years ago I
realized I started working inthe music industry because I
want to make music and instead Iwas like a full on label suit,
(05:46):
making spreadsheets and doingyou know nothing.
Hadn't picked up a guitar in along time.
And so I decided well, shoot,let me, I'll just start
releasing music.
And it feels a little bit likecheating when I, you know, I
work for Universal Music Groupand Sony and I know how the
(06:06):
algorithms work.
And so I just kind of like Iwas sitting with my dad one day
and we were just father sonrambling together and he was
like why don't you use music toraise money to fund your
gardening?
I think I was talking about howexpensive raised beds were with
him or something.
Yeah, and it planted the seed.
(06:26):
If you will, Am I allowed tomake puns and metaphors?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
The more the better, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And so the more I thought about it, the more I
realized I should do that.
And it just naturally evolvedinto like I have a very busy
work life and I also have twokids and I would like to
continue to stay married to mywife.
So, like, all these things taketime and so I don't have a ton
of time to like, brand andmarket and think through stuff.
(06:51):
So it naturally evolved intothis like well, I love plants, I
love native plants, I loveecology, I love environmental
conservation.
I grew up in Boy Scouts too.
So like we're always like wayout in the middle of nowhere,
just like four days into thewoods and starting to see and
understand what untouched naturecan be.
(07:12):
And then you come back intourban environments and you're
like well, there's still foxesand hawks and all of that still
here is just struggling.
And so it just became this likeobvious thing to turn this Rui
project into.
You know, I name all of mysongs for the most part, at
least the ones that I own 100%of Right Into.
(07:33):
You know we name them all afternative plants generally.
I think there are a couple thatare like like a Zinnia.
They're native to Texas,they're not native to.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah right, A couple of species are for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, it's.
You know, the longer theproject's gone on, the more of a
purist I've become about it,and so we're naming them after
native plants.
And then the fun thing is, allthe money that I generate with
the project either goes intohelping the songs reach new
listeners and then all the other.
The difference is we're buyingplants.
(08:05):
Mostly I'm buying seeds from.
There's a company up inKentucky called Roundstone.
That's like a native plant seedfarm, that's.
They're amazing and they'relike a hour and a half drive
around there for us, and sowe'll go up all the time and
just hang out in their farm andlook at all the rose, mallow or
whatever they've got.
I think it's like 110 acres ofnative plants.
(08:28):
Oh wow.
It's not open to the public,but they also don't care if you
show up.
And well, I shouldn't say thatI don't.
I am, I don't speak forroundstone.
You should like maybe call, callahead but there is like an
office there that you can go in.
They have a little shop thatyou can go into.
I don't think they want peoplejust like showing up and
wandering their farm.
But every time I have shown upthere's somebody there and I ask
(08:51):
, hey, do you mind if I walkaround?
And they're nice.
I mean, people in Kentucky arealways nice.
So it is generally speaking.
Most people in Kentucky arereally nice there.
I mean, as always areexceptions, but generally
speaking.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
This will play well with my Kentucky audience, which
I think is about seven people.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Well, maybe we can get you up to an even 10.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I would love that.
Round numbers are great.
So just to take a little bit ofa step back.
That's so interesting.
So like you don't have, likeformal education in plants and
ecology.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
That's sort of like a labor of love.
Right, it is my ADHDhyperfixation, because I spend
so much time online, the moreopportunity I have to be offline
I take.
So that is either gardening orit's reading.
Right, it's going to thelibrary Now.
That being said, I will saythat we I ended up making
friends with our local agdepartment because I registered
as like a seed manufacturer,seed retailer, and we grew a
(09:53):
bunch of plant starts and thatopened us up into like.
I went through the university ofTennessee's master gardener
program and you know I, we'vebeen kind of in relationship and
connection with stuff like that, but no, I don't have formal
training in any of it.
It's all just like my parentswere avid gardeners.
(10:15):
My dad is, like you know, areally staunch conservationist
and he wants to preserve naturalspaces.
We grew up, all our familyvacations were like in the
national parks all throughoutCalifornia, and so it's like
it's just who we are.
But no, I went to a couple ofyears of Bible college that
isn't accredited anymore.
So, so great, you love that.
And then, yeah, I've just endedup in marketing.
(10:38):
You know, I think I startedbuying Facebook ads in 2009.
And it.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
You know, Wow.
Early adopter.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, it was when the ads were only allowed in the
right column.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Right, I remember that well.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
So it's been a while.
So I've you know, I just haveexperienced my way into a career
and sometimes I question why Idid that.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
There's nothing wrong with that.
I'm like you know, I thinkthat's interesting because I
talked to a lot of people thatget so like I don't know down
again to use a pun down in theweeds with some of the like
science stuff and I'm like, well, have you grown anything?
And they're like no, I don't dothat.
The one thing that I think isreally interesting, as I've been
doing the show over the years,is there's so many ways to like
(11:23):
get into nature right Toexperience it, to find the love
for it, and I think we need allof that.
Yeah, I think we need everyonethat like comes to it in
different ways, because allthose perspectives are so
helpful.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Well, and I think too , like there's like a big thing
about like the reason why I evenpicked lo-fi in the first place
is because I'm a perfectionist,right, and the whole point of
lo-fi is, like it's supposed tobe kind of crappy, right.
It's supposed to like, if itsounds a little warbly, if you
didn't make it perfect, likethat's just being authentic to
the genre.
(11:57):
And I've had to really pushmyself to accept this idea of
done is better than perfect andthat this, like the reality of
life is that the bottom rungs ofthe ladder are just as
important to get to the top,right.
And so, yeah, have I had aformal education in stuff?
No, but I think that you'reright that I love connecting
(12:20):
with people that have.
I love like benefiting from theresearch and the science that's
out there.
I am a nerd.
I do read research papers.
I do cheat a little bitsometimes and ask chat GPT to
explain it to me if I don'tunderstand it.
So you know, I think that theplant community is exactly that.
It is a community of peoplethat come from all different
(12:42):
walks of life and experiences,and some of that experience is,
you know, lived experience, likeI've killed more plants than
I've helped live and some ofthat is through.
You know people who just readthe books and write the papers
and understand what xylem is.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Well, that's it's.
That's from my, I guess,experience.
Explaining it to people withxylem is like 80 percent of my
job.
It's like talking.
It's like they're like veins.
It's like, so they have hearts.
No, it's like a drolic system,yeah right is that it?
Yeah, exactly much yeah yeah,basically, yeah, it's
interesting.
So for the uninitiated, tell ifyou could put lo-fi in a
(13:27):
nutshell.
How would you explain lo-fi tolike an alien that showed up and
was like, yeah, what am Ilistening to?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
lo-fi can.
It can be a lot of things,right?
What it's become in the modernera is kind of like bedroom pop
made on a laptop without lyrics,right?
Traditionally it's instrumentalmusic, that's.
You know.
You're going to have lowertempos, it's calmer.
The stuff that I make is moreof what we would call dad jazz.
(13:55):
You know I draw a lot ofinfluences from Muzak, right?
I don't know if maybe yourlisteners are old enough to
remember Muzak, but Muzak, Ithink still to this day, is one
of the most profitable musicbrands ever.
Is it really?
They have a whole likeskyscraper in downtown LA.
They like, if I'd have to lookup some, I should have looked up
(14:17):
some Muzak fun facts.
I used to have a bunch of themon speed dial, but every
shopping center in America usedto have Muzak in it.
Every Kmart, every Walmart,muzak used to provide it.
So it was a brand and basicallythe idea of kind of what I put
out.
And Muzak is just like musicthat is not offensive to listen
to.
It's may not be an earworm inparticular, but that's kind of
(14:42):
the point.
It is there so that we don'thave to sit with the painful
silence of what you know theroom.
But we also like.
If I'm sitting at my desk andworking or I'm reading a book, I
might want some music on,because my mind is prone to
wander.
I don't know about you, butlike.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Oh, yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Change the light bulb and oh, I need to oversee it
Right.
Whatever it's, there's alwayslike some random thing that's
happening in my brain.
So having some music on is alittle bit helpful, but if it
has lyrics, now I'm thinkingabout what they're saying about.
So lo-fi really sits in thatspace where it's like, it's
enjoyable to listen to.
It's not bad music by anystretch of the imagination.
On the other side of it, youhave guys like jay dilla, who
(15:23):
really helped pioneer.
How do we subdivide and likewhere the beats in hip-hop and
things like that it?
Lo-fi means low fidelity, thoughis ultimately what it is, and
people would create lo-fi onlittle cassette players or
they'd use Roland makes thisthing called an SP-404.
They're essentially like littlebeat machines that you can grab
(15:46):
samples, which would be like aquick clip from a song, and then
maybe you'd reverse it or maybeyou'd affect it in some way and
turn that into a rhythm or agroove or a melody or a beat.
So lo-fi is essentially justinstrumental music.
Maybe you'd affect it in someway and turn that into a rhythm
or a groove or a melody or abeat.
So lo-fi is essentially justinstrumental music.
It can be.
It's a pretty broad genre, likeany genre ends up becoming, but
it's generally just like soft,relaxing instrumental music that
(16:09):
has some sort of jazz or hiphop influence involved in it.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I dig it.
So like it's interesting thatyou some of the things you said,
because my son definitely hassome like ADHD going on and he
comes by it honestly, like it'she's inherited it is an
inheritance from both his momand I and so like sometimes when
he's trying to go to bed, likehe can't sleep because his brain
will not shut up, like it justlike goes a million miles an
hour.
So the past few weeks we gothim a little speaker and he's
(16:37):
just been listening to lo-fiwhen he goes to sleep and like
it has revolutionized and I saythis like completely honestly,
like it's revolutionized hislike sleep.
Yeah, just because it, like Iguess, fills that little
spinning part in his brain.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, now I'm thinking about what's the drum
doing or what's the that youknow, right, like it very much
brings you into like thatpresent moment, right when I'm,
like I'm, it's just me here withthat song and whatever I'm
doing, whether it's sleeping,whether it's, you know, filling
seed trays, whether whatever youknow you name it.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah, he likes Nintendo lo-fi, like Nintendo
themed lo-fi, so like longplaylists, it'll be like that's
the Ocarina of Time.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yes, Honestly, that's some of my favorite as well.
It feels like that wheelhouseis thoroughly cluttered with
great artists making that stuff,so I've not ventured into it.
But every now and again I'mlike I should do like a bunch of
Zelda songs or a bunch of we'rebig Nintendo fans in our house,
(17:39):
so we are.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Oh yeah, I don't think we've ever gotten as much
mileage on a piece of tech thatI've ever bought as our Switch.
Yes, we have worn that thingout.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
We have worn it out.
We eventually got a second onethat we are currently wearing
out, and I think we're playingour 14th or 15th playthrough of
Luigi's Mansion right now.
There you go, you know orLuigi's Mansion two if we're
going to be specific.
So I think we should be.
My son is seven, so he's stilllike hasn't fully.
(18:06):
It's starting to form, but likethe like, what happens next
part of the brain isn't thereyet, so to him it's just like
the first playthrough to me.
I'm done ready?
Speaker 1 (18:15):
it's ready for a new game.
The shine's worn off, hadn't ityeah?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I mean it's a little bit, but yeah, I'm ready for
something we did.
We just did a donkey kongcountry, I think is the one that
they just re-released for theswitch, and that one was not my
favorite until we were abouttwo-thirds of the way.
It's just hard.
I'm not good at video gamesright, let's be, honest, I'm not
.
You know I make, but it's allin software and I do it one bar
(18:40):
at a time and it takes a while.
Right, we're not playing.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
And, by the way, if you're listening, this episode
is not sponsored by Nintendo,but it could be.
We would very much like that.
That would not hurt my feelings.
If, yeah, we'll work on that weplayed.
One of our favorite games wasMario Odyssey.
That's a winner.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, that is probably next in the rotation.
If we're being honest, we justkind of cycle through our games
until he earns enough lawnmowermoney to buy a new one.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
There you go, there you go, so interesting and that
kind of just to think throughsome of this, like that space
too, of like different thingsyou can do, and some of these
cozy games that fill that in mymind, a similar sort of niche in
people's brains.
Sometimes it's like lo-fi music.
I had a guest last year on theshow who actually produced a
(19:30):
gardening game called GardenLife.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Oh yeah, I have played that game.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
It's fun, yeah, and you just got prune roses and
it's very kind of like mindlessand great.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
That is 100% what I need video games to be yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
So, thinking about some of the like wildflower work
you do, it's really cool thatyou're finding different ways to
fund this.
Because I think that's asticking point for a lot of
people is I would love to bemore into native plants and more
into nature, but like I can'tafford it, I can't like whatever
.
You found a really creative way.
I don't want to say to fundyour habit, but to fund your
(20:10):
name, what it is yeah, that'sreally what it is.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, I mean gardening, mean gardening is
expensive and I think, at leastwhere we're at, like, we've
taken I'm almost out of place togrow stuff because obviously,
like I'm not a big fan of thelawn culture in the South I mean
, it's kind of all of Americaand so I also, just if I have to
(20:34):
do gardening in the Southduring August and July, I would
rather not be pushing alawnmower, I would rather be,
you know, pruning something orharvesting hop.
Like we have hops and we havelots of fruit trees.
We just put in three pawpawsand I'm probably going to let
I'm going to convince my wife tolet me put in two more so we
(20:56):
can have five.
It just doesn't look even yet.
So, yeah, but we have about4,000 square feet of wildflower
right now.
We have 1,500 in the front andthen the rest is in the back and
some of it's just like welucked out.
We just have like a reallysloping property, which is nice
because we'll never flood, itwill always run away from us,
(21:18):
but I don't want to mow it and,like I said earlier, if you
don't grow something, somethingwill grow, whether you want it
to or not in the South, and sowe I.
Just a couple of years ago itwas like, well, we're going to
do all wildflowers there, and sothe benefit is I don't have
much of a habit that needs to befed in my own yard anymore.
(21:41):
So the bonus now is we live inSouth Nashville here, and so
it's a little bit of a roughcommunity.
We are literally on the wrongside of the tracks, we don't get
a lot of resources and supportfrom city infrastructure, and so
there's a lot of just like hellstrips and roadside stuff and
(22:01):
ditches that are filled withtrash and litter and they get
bush hogged once or twice amonth and it's gross and ugly.
So we've been working with justreaching out to the city and
asking, hey, can we plantsomething else there?
And a lot of it gets pushedback and they're like, well, we
(22:22):
don't have budget for it orwho's going to maintain it.
And then the neat thing aboutthe native plant aspect is, well
, I'll plant it, you don't haveto pay for it, I'll plant it,
and because it's native, youdon't have to maintain it.
It's what is supposed to growthere.
And then you always get thepushback of, well, it's going to
get long and tall and so youget to get into the dialogue of
(22:45):
all the benefits that nativeplants have in terms of the
phytoremediation, where they'reactually helping to pull out all
the runoff and the oil and thepollutants and stuff from
getting further downstream.
They're going to stop and staythere and the thing that I love
about Nashville is that theyactually listen.
Oh that's cool yeah, and ourlittle neighborhood that we live
(23:06):
in.
We're all very active in ourcommunity and we talk to each
other and we set up meetingswith our city council person and
we do all that stuff and wekept having like flooding and
things like that in ourneighborhood because there's a
big creek that runs through it,and so we actually were able to
convince the city.
There was like a bunch of likerundown rental homes A couple of
(23:27):
years ago.
We convinced the city to buythem all from their owners and
just convert it into a riparianzone and so yeah and so, and
that has like almost 100%alleviated flooding on the Creek
like crazy, the floodplain,like I think people just don't
understand we're on a rabbittrail but we're going to go
there.
I think that people don'tunderstand that the point of a
(23:49):
like the way that water getsinto a Creek and gets into a
river isn't by just rolling overthe surface of the ground.
It is by absorbing into theground and then being filtered
through the ground and gravitypulling it down into a creek or
into a river.
And so we put all this stuff ontop of the part of the ground
that's supposed to absorb thewater and then it gets into the
creek way faster than it should,and then that's where we end up
(24:12):
with flooding issues.
But then when we have thesethings, like you know, bluestem
and gamma grass and these deeproot you know coneflowers, all
of these like prairie plants,they are designed to go super
deep into the ground and thenthat creates a pathway for water
to go in when it rains, andthey do a really good job of
(24:34):
catching that trash before itends up in the creek, before it
ends up down.
You know we're on theCumberland River and so you know
all the having all thosewildflowers on the side of the
road or in that ditch.
Yes, oh, somebody's going tohave to mow it.
If somebody's mowing it twice amonth or once a week in the
season anyways, why not mow itonce a month and give it a nice
Chelsea chop, right?
(24:54):
Instead of cutting it all theway down to the ground, just cut
it down to like six to 10inches off the ground.
It'll come back and it'll catchlitter and debris and act as a
filter, and then it's alsobolstering the local ecosystem,
right.
It's giving birds and bees andwasps and ladybugs and fireflies
and all of those things a placeto live and eat and succeed,
(25:18):
and that ends up being betterfor our community.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
That's and that's awesome.
And you know you were talkingabout lawns and stuff earlier
and like I think they they havetheir place to a certain extent,
but you know I, we're, we arehere, we're more Southwest than
South, so you know we're up hereon like a high elevation
prairie essentially, but we getlike 19 inches of rain, right
(25:42):
Like it's.
We're not, we're dry.
This year it's going to be lessthan that, I'm pretty sure.
Like I remember 2011 or so, wegot like four inches of rain all
year and it was awful and itwas like 112 degrees all summer.
Like it was bad, hard pass,real bad Hard pass.
Yeah, no thanks.
Like there's days that I'm likewhy do I live here?
Why I could move, I could goanywhere, but I know.
(26:05):
So when we think about likeplants for the landscape,
sometimes I think a lot of folksare like we should do our
landscape more like Dallas,where they get rain and it's
humid, than El Paso, where theydon't get rain, when really we
should be thinking, okay, whatworks in El Paso, where it's dry
, maybe a better choice for us?
And so, from an educationalstandpoint, like a lot of we do
(26:28):
a lot of like, hey, here are thebenefits of native plants and
native wildflowers.
They're beautiful.
These grasses are great.
You know you could do buffalograss and curly mesquite and all
of these different things Sideoats, grandma, black, grandma,
blue, grandma, there's so manyand, like you're saying, you mow
them a couple times a season,just because you whether they
(26:50):
need it or not, I guess, andthen you go on with your life
and I think there's.
You know, I've spent most of mycareer in water and landscape
and I see a shift.
It's just that ship turns soslowly.
Sometimes we get into this ideaof this is what a landscape is
supposed to look like and thenwe get bogged down, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
You know, it's fair to say that what we think is
landscaping.
I think oftentimes we like tothink that we have curated this
aesthetic, when corporateAmerica has really done a lot of
that, you know, and the lawnculture in America it's.
It makes companies big money andultimately, when you start
(27:33):
getting in it like in mydriveway I've got a huge heap of
wildflowers that I cut downlate fall, early winter that we
you start to realize, like thereis a point where this like
(27:53):
abundance thing kicks in, whereI don't, you know, like we are,
we're three years into the Ruiproject.
I'm starting to run out ofthings to spend money on,
because the sites are providingenough to then create new sites
and continue this cycle thing,whereas if we're doing a lawn or
a traditional garden, we'redoing, you know not, I
(28:14):
definitely have a few annualsthat are my favorite, but, like
if I could plan a perennial, Iwould rather a perennial, have
it come back year after year andget better and better over time
.
That's just not good business,right, if I've got a weed and
feed my lawn instead of slowlyconverting it to some other,
like I don't really have aspecific turf in my front yard?
(28:36):
Sure, obviously, is it MichaelPollan that said lawns should be
an area rug, not wall-to-wallcarpet?
I'm not sure?
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, and so it's like that's how we treat our
lawns.
Obviously, we need somewhere tolike lay down and look at the
clouds, and the dogs needsomewhere to run and catch the
ball, and the kids like we got aswing set.
We have all that stuff, butlike this idea of having edge to
edge short turf grass thatlooks fine on a golf course
(29:07):
because that's the purpose of it, right, you know I'm not a big
golf fan, but I understand likethat's a thing and people like
it and whatever gets you outside.
It is nice to start.
I know a lot of the courses inour area are starting to
incorporate native plants intothem.
That's always a nice.
You're like, yes, I like that,yeah, super cool.
But like you don't need tomaintain stuff at the same level
(29:28):
when you're investing into along-term ecosystem, right, and
that ultimately is just not goodbusiness for lawn care
companies, for Scots, for allthe things that we didn't feed,
and so you know, maybe I'mshowing that I'm a crunchy
hippie.
I'm not like a super crunchyhippie.
I'm a really weird enigma, likewe're all fully vaccinated.
(29:50):
I'm not like a super crunchyhippie.
I'm a really weird enigma Likewe're all fully vaccinated.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
We believe in science .
Speaker 2 (29:53):
We contain multitudes , right, yeah, I'm an enigma,
maybe.
So, yeah, I think it's justlike we have been taught to
think that the particularaesthetic of American gardens is
that that's the best way to doit, and the reality is that
there's no one way to do itright.
My garden some people come,like our front yard, our
(30:17):
installation of wildflowers inthe front doesn't like.
We just took a big seed mix andI think there's something like
22 or 23 different natives and Ijust mixed up a pound of
wildflower seeds and some sandand we just threw it.
We just said whatever growsright and we're just gonna let
nature do the thing.
Not that nature really has 27different seeds in one spot at
(30:39):
one time.
That's not really how it works,but like we pretend, yeah, it's
closer.
Yeah, and so we ended up with alot like the bearded beggar
ticks were really tall, yeah,and so we ended up with a lot
like the bearded beggar tickswere really tall.
The Illinois bundle flowerreally took off.
We what else was?
Partridge peas were insane andby July, seven feet tall, right,
(31:01):
Wow, it was great.
I mean, I loved it.
My wife is ready for it to belike yaros and cone flowers and
short stuff.
But the reason we did it too islike we live on a pretty like
it's a cut through street in ourneighborhood.
It's not like a main street,but it gets really busy and cars
move really fast and we haveyoung kids and so, like, how do
we create a natural barrierbetween the street and our kids?
(31:24):
Right, and so I just planted a,basically a moat of wildflowers
.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I like that actually a lot.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I think that more people should do it.
You know, by you know, lateJuly it was just this like seven
foot tall sea of yellow.
That was just like when youwalked up to it it almost
sounded like there was anelectrical problem nearby
because it's just so active withbees and that's cool.
Yeah, it's like such a coolsensory experience to like walk
(31:54):
up to this little island ofwildflowers in a you know
otherwise, we have a lot ofrenters and there's not a lot of
landscaping on our street.
It's like cars on lawns andstuff like that, and then you
just have this huge, you know,14, 1500 square foot of seven
foot tall yellow flowers.
And to some people they don'tlike it, it's not their thing,
(32:15):
right, and that's okay.
I think that gardens get tolook like however the gardener
that is tending it wants to.
And for me, my personal approachis that we are not apart from
nature.
We're a part of it, and so my,the space around my home isn't
necessarily supposed to be anextension of that like super
(32:36):
clean, tidy, homogenized thingthat's on the inside right, like
we vacuum, we don't.
It's not like I have a bunch ofbugs in my house and it's like
it's clean and tidy in my house,but we also don't do pest
control outside of our house andI enjoy the fact that there's a
den of possums in my backyardright now and my dogs are having
(32:57):
to go to the bathroom in thefront yard right now and they
don't like that.
But that's what it is, becauseI get this opportunity to have
this space to interface withnature and I don't have to go to
, you know, the local state parkto do that.
I can do it right here in urbanNashville and we have foxes and
(33:18):
possums and raccoons and,unfortunately, we saw a bear a
couple weeks ago, which isreally fascinating.
But also like I don't want.
I don't want to live where Ihave to like worry about bears
in my trash can.
Like I already look outside ofmy house for, like sketchy
people before I go out there, Idon't want to also now have to
look for bears.
But like we are a part ofnature and nature it's all in
(33:42):
our communities anyways, and soit's been really neat to like I
don't care.
We don't have an HOA, obviouslyin our neighborhood, so I don't
care what it looks like toother people.
I care what kind of things I getto find in my yard.
I care, you know, our tomatoesand our vegetables always do
amazing and we don't.
I don't, like we don't sprayanything at all.
(34:04):
Every now and again I'll doneem Like.
If we have powdery mildew, Imay do.
It depends on if I catch it atthe right time, like spinosad on
the blossoms of our fruit treesearly on, to prevent, for you
know, any kind of worms or moths.
But generally we just leteverything take care of
everything and we don't.
(34:26):
I don't have crazy big spidersin my house.
I've never gotten bit or stungby a wasp.
They're here but they're all sointerested in what's happening
in the patch.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
I think that's really interesting that you say that,
because I think people freak outabout stuff like bees.
Oh, there's bees and wasps nearmy house.
I'm like, yeah, but they don'thave anything else to do,
they're bored.
So you go outside and you're animmediate threat, right Like to
the hive, to the whatever.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
They're hungry.
They're, you know, like they'rein fight or flight mode because
they don't have a thrivingecosystem that they're a part of
.
They're struggling in thisdesert of biodiversity in urban
environments.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
And yeah, and so you give them essentially something
to do.
You let them exist like they'reand they don't care about you,
they don't want to bother you,they just want to go about their
thing and find food and exist.
Right, and I think you're right.
It's interesting.
I haven't really chased downthis like thought process before
, but it's really fascinating tome because we talk a lot about
(35:29):
like talking about bear, right,and how urban sprawl and things.
We tend to think about that interms of like, oh, I saw a
coyote, I saw a fox, I saw abear, and they're not acting
like they're supposed to becausethey're in the city and they
don't know what to do with that.
I don't think we extend thatvery often to insects and to
smaller animals, when it'sreally the same concept, right,
(35:51):
they're under stress, they'reout of their native habitat.
They don't, like evolutionarily, have the tools to handle that
well, so if we give themsomething to I don't know, feel
like home, essentially.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
I mean, I think a lot of instability in the world
comes from food insecurity andhousing insecurity.
Right, If humans have thatexperience, why wouldn't the
rest of the living organismshave that same experience too?
Speaker 1 (36:18):
We're all after the same thing, right yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I mean biologically, at a fundamental level, we are
all trying to reproduce andsurvive, right?
So whether you're a little tinyorganism or a wasp or a human,
there are needs that lookdifferent, but fundamentally
they are the same thing we needto eat, we need to have a place
to live that beautiful life fullof meaningful connections, and
(36:41):
if they don't have it, thenthey're stressed and that comes
out in being a jerk.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, that is really interesting.
I tell you what this seems likea great place for a quick
mid-roll.
So let's go do that stuff andtake a break, and when we come
back we'll talk more aboutnative plants and conservation
and how all of this fitstogether.
Well, hey there, welcome to themid-roll.
I'm so glad you're here.
Tell your houseplants I lovethem, and give them just the
tiniest little pat on the head.
(37:09):
For me, if you're noticing thatthe mid-roll music is different
this week, it's because it is.
This is actually a song calledYarrow by Rui himself, and it's
jazzy and it's awesome.
I love it so much.
So go check him out on Spotifyand all the players and listen
to more of his music.
But I think we're going tostart using some Rui originals
(37:32):
for our mid-roll music insteadof the jaunty elevator music
that I normally go with.
Hey, thanks so much for being apart of Plantthropology and for
listening this far.
I hope you've enjoyed theconversation.
I know I have Thanks to theTexas Tech Department of Plant
and Soil Science for supportingthe show, letting me do the
thing.
Thanks to Rui for agreeing tobe on, but mostly, as always,
thanks to you for being part ofthe Plantthropology family.
(37:54):
If you want to supportPlantthropology, there's a lot
of ways to do it.
You can follow along on socialmedia, all the places as
Plantthropology orPlantthropologyPod.
I am the plant prof all overthe internet.
If you want to ask questions,shoot me an email at
plantthropologypod at gmailcom.
Let me know your thoughts,episode ideas, all of that.
Leaving a rating and review forthe show wherever you can Apple
(38:15):
podcasts or Spotify or podchaser or anywhere else is a big
help.
It's great social proof and itlets me know that you're
listening and that you'reenjoying what you're hearing.
But the best way to probablysupport the show is to tell a
friend about it, tell them howmuch you enjoy it and get them
interested in plants and nature.
If you would like tofinancially support the show,
(38:35):
you can go toplanthropologypodcastcom, check
out some merch or go tobuymeacoffeecom slash
planthropology and for the priceof a cup of coffee you can pay
for hosting fees, I guess, butmostly coffee.
So I'm going to let you listento this rad dad jazz for a
couple more seconds and thenwe'll jump in to part two of the
(38:56):
episode.
Let's do it.
Just to go back to a point youmade earlier that you know you
(39:24):
have a place to go experienceall these things and your kids
and your family.
But also, I think a big themeof this season is going to be
community, and just think aboutwhat you're doing for the
community too, and whether ornot you ever get the neighbor's
kids that are like, hey, we lovethat you have giant fun flowers
, yellow flowers.
I think that they wouldn't getto see that, right, because,
(39:45):
like you said, like there's thisidea that we have to go to find
nature and in a lot ofcommunities people don't have
the means for that.
Yeah, so having access tonature is sort of like this
radical community building thatI think is so cool.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
It really is.
I think so much about just theway.
I don't know, I'm not sayingit's on purpose, but like it
does feel like we are taught tofeel so separate from nature,
like we are taught to feel soseparate from nature.
And so, you know, a lot of theinstallations that we do with
the Ruby project are at schools.
Those are the easiest people toget to say yes, right, because
(40:21):
it's like hey, can I come and,do you know, over the weekend
I'll put in.
Usually I try not to doinstallations that are smaller
than 10 by 10 square foot itseems to be anything smaller
than that.
It's like I'll send you someseeds and you can plant them and
that's nice.
A pollinator habitat needs tohave a bit of a footprint for it
to really make an impact anddraw in any kind of ecosystem to
(40:44):
it, and so.
But schools are, you know,there's always 10 or 20 square
feet on the side of a buildingsomewhere that they're cool with
.
Yeah, you can do whatever, andso.
But then I, you know youfollowed up with like I will
come regularly throughout theseason and we can meet with as
many or as few of your studentsas you want and talk about
(41:05):
what's happening here and noticewhat's happening here.
About what's happening here andnotice what's happening here
and it.
I think it's so crazy to me to,you know, meet kids who are in
Nashville who had no idea likeeven what ends up inevitably
what ends up happening.
As a teacher or two, we'll puta like bell pepper or a tomato
or something in there and I lovethat.
But what's always crazy to meis meeting these kids that have
(41:28):
no idea what a bell pepper on aplant looks like and being
flabbergasted.
That's wait, I eat, like that'sthe gross stuff that my parents
put on my plate and it's rightthere on the ground.
And then having that like aha,moment of like connecting, like
this is all connected right,like the bell peppers are going
to taste better if I grow myself.
They're going to grow better ifI have a diverse ecosystem, and
(41:51):
I can't have a diverseecosystem if we just plant
invasive species from Home Depotand Bradford, pears and privet
and all of that nonsense stuffthat is profitable for big box
stores but isn't reallyconnected with the reality and
(42:12):
the lived experience of peoplein those communities.
So it's like these are supercool.
All of our neighbors end up.
I think a couple of them were alittle like what are you doing
with your front yard at firstand again by the end of it.
They're all like they.
All of them were sad to see uscut it short at the end of the
season.
We didn't completely pulleverything down to the ground.
(42:36):
Basically, what we did with ourfront yard at least, is we cut
everything down to about six orseven inches tall, so it's short
still and it's caught a bunchof leaves in there and it's cool
.
And then we piled all of thestems and stuff in the back
under a tarp and there's stuffliving in there for sure and
(42:56):
then we'll process it for seedsany weekend.
Now I'm just looking for a freeone.
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Those are kind of a precious commodity, aren't they?
Free weekends, yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
I don't really know if I know what those are.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
It's been a while, yeah, yeah, it's been a minute.
A question just sort of relatedto all this Talking about, I
don't know, the community andthe public adoption and
perspectives on some of thesethings.
You know you do a lot on socialmedia and online One getting
your music out there and allthat but talking about some of
these issues and talking aboutnative plants, Do you get
(43:29):
pushback?
Are there people?
Because people on the internetare jerks?
Right, there's bad people onthe internet.
But like, how do you deal with?
Speaker 2 (43:36):
that I mean.
I think first you have toaccept the fact that, like there
are people out there that don'tlike pizza and golden
retrievers and they're wrong,they're objectively wrong,
they're wrong and that is partof our mental health crisis in
America.
I'm just kidding, I don't meanto make light of mental health
issues.
You can leave this part of thepodcast.
No, I think there's somethingcalled context collapse.
(43:56):
That happens online a lot,where people just lose sight of,
they may not fully understandwhat it is you meant by what you
said, and they may decide thatyou meant something different
and completely take it out ofcontext.
And just the hide for everyonebutton is your friend, right?
(44:18):
oh my goodness, yes, like at theend of the day, you know, being
in music, for sure, right, likeno one, you can't please all
the people all the time, right?
And and then, being inmarketing, part of my job is to
figure out who does and who doesnot like stuff, right, and so I
(44:39):
think for me I've just come tobe fine with people who aren't
interested in it.
There definitely are, you know,there's definitely Redditors
that are really dead set onhaving their very weird turf
grass that is more expensivethan it needs to be to grow in
that place in the first place,and you know they're just dead
(45:00):
set on it and that's fine.
I don't think I am of thebelief that I'm going to
convince everybody to grownative wildflowers and get rid
of their front lawn.
I don't think that's the pointof it.
The point is that, again, dothe bottom rungs of the ladder
get you to the top or not?
And so, but if you can, if Ican convince somebody to put in
(45:23):
a little patch of cone flowersor to grow, I mean, honestly,
I'm a big fan of yarrow right.
If you're in the Southeast, atleast yarrow's rad you want.
If you want ladybugs in yourgarden, you should plant yarrow,
right, absolutely Is you caneat it, it is nitrogen fixing,
it is middle of winter or Iguess the end of winter.
(45:47):
Thankfully it's still green inour yard, right, it never died
back, it's just out there doingits thing.
If I can convince people to putsome native plants in their
yard, that's a win, right?
And most of the time I thinkthat from a like, if you sit
down and you break down thelogic of it, right, we can talk
about the aesthetics and thebeauty, and that is the logic
(46:09):
for some people, right.
Well, I, you know, I, my yardlooks like a wildflower meadow
in the middle of nowhere.
It's, that's my yard, that'swhat I like, right?
I don't think that nativeplants have to look seven feet
tall and monstrous and buzzingwith bees and wasps and insects.
(46:31):
That's not everybody's cup oftea, but they might like a
blazing weed in the back of abed to give some height and some
visual interest.
They might like.
You know, native plants can bereally beautiful and really well
done and still kind of fit thatweird propagandized, you know
(46:53):
American landscape culture thatI don't fully understand.
But, yeah, do people get mad?
Sure, no-transcript somebody?
(47:30):
Hey, I noticed you've got aplanter outside, do you mind if
I plant it for you?
And they may say no and likethat's the worst that happens.
The worst that happens issomeone goes nope, sorry, please
leave.
All right, see ya, good luck.
Some guerrilla gardening, but Ifind that it's like a little
bit of a wasted effort because,number one, there are always
(47:54):
unintended consequences of whatyou're doing and again, I'm not
a studied academic on it.
My goal is to help, not to harm, and I think that oftentimes
guerrilla gardening is reallywell intended.
But just asking somebody if youcould plant something where
something isn't growing isalmost always a better strategy
(48:17):
than like.
I mean, seed bombs don't evenwork anyways, right.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
No, not really.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Seeds did not evolve to be wrapped up in clay and
hucked over a fence.
Most native seeds they want tohave I'm going to cuss, you're
going to have to cut this outthey want to have their ass to
the ground and their face to thesky, and that's just how plants
evolved.
They didn't.
Most things didn't evolve tolike get buried several inches
in the ground evolve to like getburied several inches in the
(48:44):
ground.
Vegetables and produce andthings like that is a little bit
different, because it wants tobe eaten and then pooped out,
but like native wildflowers andgrasses are going to get blown
in the wind or they're going tocatch on something's fur or a
combination thereof, and so justneed a little soil contact and
that's it.
Yeah, that's it, and so you justthrow them and walk away.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Well, and it's this concept too I think of, like
giving a man a fish or teachinga man to fish, right, like if,
yeah, you could go throw somewildflower seeds in an empty lot
and that's fine.
Or you could, like you're doing, talk to the city, talk to
people in the neighborhood andbe like here's why we're doing
this, and I think we get intothis.
Oh, I just have to do it.
It's this almost like saviorcomplex sometimes, instead of I
(49:21):
want to build community and Iwant to like and I like, and
again I agree with you.
I think like guerrillagardening, seed bombs, all that
it's really well intentioned,but I think we're not like that.
That next step of how do I usethis to make not just the
environment but the people inthat environment like happier
and healthier, and there's somuch research that shows that
(49:44):
greener spaces and urbanenvironments has better
education outcomes.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
It has a reduction of crime rate, right, like there's
so many reasons why, like Ijust made this huge argument
with city Nashville and thatthey're putting in 180 trees
near our house because crimerate is super high in this part
of town and there are no treesthat are acting as heat sinks.
Planting plants makes the worlda better place and it is wild
to me that is a hot take.
(50:09):
It is wild to me that wehaven't figured this out.
It is like did nobody?
Like where are all themillennials that grew up on
captain planet?
What happened?
So it's.
But yeah, if you just ask andyou make, especially if you want
to get involved at the likecity level, there are city
planners out there andbeautification directors and
people in your community thatare looking for easy wins.
(50:31):
Take your ADHD hyper fixationand make a plan and go to them
and say, hey, I made this plan.
I think that we should put abunch of trees here and here and
I think that we should usethese trees because they're the
state tree or they're the nativetree, or they're I like this
tree, or they're not Bradfordpears, and this is my plan.
(50:54):
These are the locations.
I think that these would begreat Nine times out of 10,
they'll just look at it and go.
As long as your math is right,they'll go.
Yeah, let's do it.
Okay, cool, yes, done.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
You've made something easy for them.
Submit it.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
Right, and that's how it works in, like when I'm
marketing music.
If I'm trying to get somebodyto do a write-up on an artist or
get an ad to work or whatever,you just have to make a win for
them.
And so people I don't thinkpeople don't want more
wildflowers.
I don't think people don't wanta better, safer community.
I don't think they don't wanttheir kids to have better
outcomes at school.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
I just think that they forget or don't realize
that plants and the communityaspect of that is what actually
creates that.
Yeah, super cool.
Wow, like this is such a greatconversation, I have a couple of
questions, as we sort of justwrap up, that I like to try to
get from my guests.
The first is like where do yousee this going?
What do you want to do withthis?
I mean, I know you're it seemslike you've had a lot of success
with the Rooey project and,like you said, you're running
(51:52):
out of space to plant stuffGoing forward.
Do you have like step two,phase two, or just to kind of
keep doing what you're doing?
I haven't.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
I didn't think it would work this well, so I
haven't really thought about itof like, what is the next step
here with the project?
I mean, there are always goingto be places to to do plans.
Obviously we've got all theschools within a radius of us
have stuff.
You know, all the schoolswithin a radius of us have stuff
.
You know.
I think maybe the next step isjust to start putting stuff on.
(52:27):
You know we were, my wife and Iwere talking about the day.
Maybe I start posting on nextdoor and saying, hey, do you
want me to come do an install inyour house?
You know, I don't know.
I don't know what it is.
I'm, you know, to those that arelistening, if you have an idea,
let me know, find me on theinternet, give me your thoughts.
Right now we're just going tokind of keep on keeping on.
I'm trying to put on a songevery six to eight weeks, as I
(52:50):
can, and I'm delivering a song,hopefully, fingers crossed, by
the end of the day.
Today it's all done, I justhave to upload it.
I know I get it that final.
The top rung of the ladder issometimes hard to reach.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
I get it.
That's show notes.
That's writing show notes forme.
I'll do all this stuff and I'mlike I'm done, I don't want to
do this anymore.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
I think I have like six songs that are done and five
of them need artwork and namesand that's it and that's
probably like a 20 or 30 minutejob.
When that's probably like the20 or 30 minute job, when am I
going to find that?
Speaker 1 (53:25):
But yeah, the dopamine is not in it yet.
I understand.
I understand Very well.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Yeah, very well, so I don't know what's next.
To be honest, okay, no, that'scool though we're just going to
keep playing plants Love it.
Maybe we'll do trees next.
Yeah, more pawpaws.
Yeah, pawpaw is actually thenext song.
Oh, great yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
There's a flower on the tree.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
right yeah, it's like a purple triangular kind of
stinky flower.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
A little bit, but it could be worse.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
It could yeah, it could be a bread for pear.
It could be stinkhorn mushroomsoh God, we have those in our
garden.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
Y'all have.
This is a total aside.
Do you have a buffalo gourdthere, or stink?
Speaker 2 (54:00):
gourd.
We don't have stink gourd, butI know what stink gourd is and
I'm so glad we don't have todeal with it.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
There's a lot of it out here, like it's native out
here and so in a lot of ournative spaces, like it's there,
which is great, it's a perennialcucurbit.
Those are rare, neat.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
No thanks, I'm out not all nature is enjoyable.
Yeah, yeah, you yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
Yeah, I know.
Last question I have if therewas like one piece of advice,
one thing you'd like ourlisteners to take from this
episode, what would that be?
If, like you, had a and it canbe about what we've been talking
about or anything- I think thatdone is better than perfect is
probably the thing.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
right that there are a lot of projects or things or
ideas or hopes that you mighthave and ultimately, don't let
this perfect version of itprevent you from even trying and
figuring it out, becausewhether it's music or whether
it's native gardening or whetherit's local conservation, 99% of
(55:04):
success is just consistentlydoing the most obvious thing for
an uncommonly long period oftime, without assuming you're
smarter than you are.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
That's really good advice yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:14):
And so just do it.
Just do it, even if it's notperfect.
Cool, that's just the bottomrung of the ladder and you just
keep climbing until you get tothe top.
You'll get there eventually,but don't let being really you
know, we say this to our kidsall the time is because my kids
are like, they're like that, youknow, when they try a new sport
or they.
We went to a skate park theother day.
(55:34):
My son had never been to askate park, sent him there and
he kept falling.
Being bad at stuff is thenumber one way to get really
good, and so you just done isbetter than perfect.
Just do it.
Fail at it.
Take all that failure, use itas feedback and keep going.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Very cool.
Well, Rui, this has been a lotof fun.
I just looked up and it's beenalmost an hour.
That's a great conversation.
I know when can we find you.
Where should we send people?
Speaker 2 (55:59):
You can find me on.
I'm usually on instagram, I'malmost always on threads or you
can just go to my website.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
It's rueyco r-o-o-e-yco okay, very cool, and
you're on spotify, I'm onspotify, I'm on apple music, I'm
on title, I'm on yandex.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
That's a thing.
Yandex is like a russianstreaming platform.
I I think Okay, I didn't knowthat until I got a royalty check
from them.
So that's great.
So the only place I'm not islike normal radio yet.
So I guess, call your localradio station and request a
movie song.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
It's more lo-fi dad jazz.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (56:36):
Who doesn't yeah?
Speaker 1 (56:37):
Yeah, man, it was a lot of fun.
Thanks for being on.
I keep doing what you do and Ilove it.
Yeah, thanks for having meY'all.
If there's one thing I tookaway from this episode, I think
it's that we can find such coolintersections and ways to make
the world better through ourpassions, whether that's a love
of music, a love of plants, alove of nature or the
conjunction of all those things.
(56:59):
Rui does such a good job ofusing his gifts and using his
talents and using the things heloves to make the world around
him better, and I think that'ssomething we could all really do
with some more of right now andreally take to heart.
Thanks again to Rui for being apart of this, and I hope you'll
go check out his music all overthe places.
Thanks again for listening toPlantapology.
You know I do this for you andI'm just so grateful that you're
(57:23):
a part of it.
Thanks again to the Texas TechDepartment of Plant and Soil
Science.
Plantthropology is hosted,written, produced all of those
things by yours truly.
Our intro and outro music is bythe award-winning composer,
nick Scout, and our mid-rollmusic now is by my buddy, rui.
I hope that you are well, Ihope that you're enjoying spring
(57:43):
and, by the way, happy spring.
We're just now getting into itand I hope that you're being
kind to one another.
If you have not, to this point,been kind to one another, it's
getting to be more and more of aradical act and I think that
you should give it a shot.
Be good, be safe, keep beingreally cool, plant people, and I
will talk to you real soon,thank you.
What is up?
Plant people.
It's time once more for thePlanthropology Podcast, the
shore.
We dive in the lives andcareers of some very cool plant
people to figure out why they doand what keeps them coming back
for more.
I'm Vikram Baliga, your host andhumble guide in this journey
through the sciences and, asalways, my dearest friends.
I am just so darn excited to bewith you today and we have got
a good one for you today.
(00:21):
Do you know what lo-fi is?
Think of like a cozy video gamethat you cuddle up on the couch
with a blanket and grab a cupof tea or coffee and go to town
on either pruning some roses ormaking an island and being
forever beholden to a tanuki orsomething like that, and you're
in the ballpark.
Well, it's wonderful, it'sjazzy, and my guest today is a
(00:46):
producer of exactly that.
So today you're going to hearfrom a musician and a music
industry expert named Rui, and Iwould give you his government
name, but I don't want tobecause Rui is such a great name
.
So Rui works again in the musicindustry and he produces great
lo-fi and brings in his passionfor native plants and for
(01:07):
landscapes and for conservationinto it, so he actually raises
money to buy wildflower seed andremediate different pieces of
land and do so much cool stuffthrough his music, and I want to
let him tell you more about it.
So I'm not going to talk toomuch more about it, but Rui and
I have been friends for a littlewhile.
We met, I think, on Instagramand I think just have a lot of
shared interests and a lot ofshared life experience, and I
(01:29):
had so much fun getting to talkto him today, so I don't want to
ruin the surprise in this greatconversation, so let's get into
it.
So, grab some headphones, turnon the dad jazz, cozy up on the
couch and get ready for episode115 of the Planthropology
Podcast Native Landscapes, lo-fi, dad Jazz and the rungs on the
ladder.
All right?
(02:12):
Well, rui, thanks for being ontoday.
I'm so excited to get to talkto you.
We've been sort of internetfriends for a while and it's
always fun getting to meetpeople that I enjoy talking to
and actually get to talk, sortof face-to-face yeah thanks for
having me.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It's definitely weird to like or maybe weird's not
the right word, but fun to likemeet people that the algorithm
for lack of a better termbrought together right Like.
I think the algorithm gets alot of hate, but it also does
some good stuff sometimes, soI'm glad to be friends and be
talking in sort of real life,almost real life as close as it
(02:45):
gets.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Right, as close as it gets?
Yeah, from a distance for sure.
Well, tell us about yourself.
Where'd you grow up?
What'd you study?
What are you into?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, so I grew up in Los Angeles and lived in you
know what was at the time ofessentially like a sheep herding
town North of Los Angeles, Likewe used to shut down main
street for a couple of daysevery year and heard you know a
couple, you know five, 10,000head of sheep through town.
And then over time, it, youknow, continued to grow as
(03:12):
California has, and I eventuallyfound my way up to Northern
California and I met my wifethere.
When did we meet?
What year is it now?
Where am I in time and space?
I know we've been married for13 years.
So a minute ago, just like ashort jaunt ago, we met in
northern california and we metat a ministry school, okay, and
(03:33):
then from there we moved toportland, oregon, and I worked
in live sound and productionthings like that before slowly,
you know, finding my way intomusic marketing and so for like
the last 15 years I've workedfor mostly major labels and like
large entertainment companiesdoing marketing.
(03:55):
Nothing exciting in marketing,it's mostly like ad buying and
like data analysis stuff sonerdy stuff, but fun stuff for
me.
And then we moved here toNashville in 2018.
We have two kids and we havefamily out here and I work in
the music industry and so I wasconstantly traveling out here
and we just finally were likewe're doing life on hard mode
(04:16):
and so we moved from PortlandOregon, which we love Portland
Oregon, but it's impossible tohave a vegetable garden there
because your growing season isvery short and everything is
dark all the time.
So we I've really loved livingin Nashville because we have a
super long growing.
I don't know how dissimilar itis to where you are, but our
(04:38):
growing season is super long andwe get lots of really heavy
rainstorms, so there's not likea ton of need for irrigation and
things like that.
And you just kind of put it inthe like if you don't plant
something in the ground here,something will grow.
It's usually stuff you don'twant.
So we do lots of gardening as aresult and, yeah, that has.
(05:00):
We've really loved gardeninghere.
That being said, I've had agarden bed in my parents' garden
since I was five.
Right, we have always had hugegardens and whether it's
ornamentals or vegetables or amixture thereof, and even when
my wife and I were young andmarried and living in apartments
(05:21):
and we would rent communitygarden plots in Portland and try
to grow stuff.
So, like we've always beengardeners and I guess all this
meandering intro to say is likewhat leads to the current
iteration of Rui, if you will,is you know, a few years ago I
realized I started working inthe music industry because I
want to make music and instead Iwas like a full on label suit,
(05:46):
making spreadsheets and doingyou know nothing.
Hadn't picked up a guitar in along time.
And so I decided well, shoot,let me, I'll just start
releasing music.
And it feels a little bit likecheating when I, you know, I
work for Universal Music Groupand Sony and I know how the
(06:06):
algorithms work.
And so I just kind of like Iwas sitting with my dad one day
and we were just father sonrambling together and he was
like why don't you use music toraise money to fund your
gardening?
I think I was talking about howexpensive raised beds were with
him or something.
Yeah, and it planted the seed.
(06:26):
If you will, Am I allowed tomake puns and metaphors?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
The more the better, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And so the more I thought about it, the more I
realized I should do that.
And it just naturally evolvedinto like I have a very busy
work life and I also have twokids and I would like to
continue to stay married to mywife.
So, like, all these things taketime and so I don't have a ton
of time to like, brand andmarket and think through stuff.
(06:51):
So it naturally evolved intothis like well, I love plants, I
love native plants, I loveecology, I love environmental
conservation.
I grew up in Boy Scouts too.
So like we're always like wayout in the middle of nowhere,
just like four days into thewoods and starting to see and
understand what untouched naturecan be.
(07:12):
And then you come back intourban environments and you're
like well, there's still foxesand hawks and all of that still
here is just struggling.
And so it just became this likeobvious thing to turn this Rui
project into.
You know, I name all of mysongs for the most part, at
least the ones that I own 100%of Right Into.
(07:33):
You know we name them all afternative plants generally.
I think there are a couple thatare like like a Zinnia.
They're native to Texas,they're not native to.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah right, A couple of species are for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, it's.
You know, the longer theproject's gone on, the more of a
purist I've become about it,and so we're naming them after
native plants.
And then the fun thing is, allthe money that I generate with
the project either goes intohelping the songs reach new
listeners and then all the other.
The difference is we're buyingplants.
(08:05):
Mostly I'm buying seeds from.
There's a company up inKentucky called Roundstone.
That's like a native plant seedfarm, that's.
They're amazing and they'relike a hour and a half drive
around there for us, and sowe'll go up all the time and
just hang out in their farm andlook at all the rose, mallow or
whatever they've got.
I think it's like 110 acres ofnative plants.
(08:28):
Oh wow.
It's not open to the public,but they also don't care if you
show up.
And well, I shouldn't say thatI don't.
I am, I don't speak forroundstone.
You should like maybe call, callahead but there is like an
office there that you can go in.
They have a little shop thatyou can go into.
I don't think they want peoplejust like showing up and
wandering their farm.
But every time I have shown upthere's somebody there and I ask
(08:51):
, hey, do you mind if I walkaround?
And they're nice.
I mean, people in Kentucky arealways nice.
So it is generally speaking.
Most people in Kentucky arereally nice there.
I mean, as always areexceptions, but generally
speaking.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
This will play well with my Kentucky audience, which
I think is about seven people.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Well, maybe we can get you up to an even 10.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I would love that.
Round numbers are great.
So just to take a little bit ofa step back.
That's so interesting.
So like you don't have, likeformal education in plants and
ecology.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
That's sort of like a labor of love.
Right, it is my ADHDhyperfixation, because I spend
so much time online, the moreopportunity I have to be offline
I take.
So that is either gardening orit's reading.
Right, it's going to thelibrary Now.
That being said, I will saythat we I ended up making
friends with our local agdepartment because I registered
as like a seed manufacturer,seed retailer, and we grew a
(09:53):
bunch of plant starts and thatopened us up into like.
I went through the university ofTennessee's master gardener
program and you know I, we'vebeen kind of in relationship and
connection with stuff like that, but no, I don't have formal
training in any of it.
It's all just like my parentswere avid gardeners.
(10:15):
My dad is, like you know, areally staunch conservationist
and he wants to preserve naturalspaces.
We grew up, all our familyvacations were like in the
national parks all throughoutCalifornia, and so it's like
it's just who we are.
But no, I went to a couple ofyears of Bible college that
isn't accredited anymore.
So, so great, you love that.
And then, yeah, I've just endedup in marketing.
(10:38):
You know, I think I startedbuying Facebook ads in 2009.
And it.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
You know, Wow.
Early adopter.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, it was when the ads were only allowed in the
right column.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Right, I remember that well.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
So it's been a while.
So I've you know, I just haveexperienced my way into a career
and sometimes I question why Idid that.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
There's nothing wrong with that.
I'm like you know, I thinkthat's interesting because I
talked to a lot of people thatget so like I don't know down
again to use a pun down in theweeds with some of the like
science stuff and I'm like, well, have you grown anything?
And they're like no, I don't dothat.
The one thing that I think isreally interesting, as I've been
doing the show over the years,is there's so many ways to like
(11:23):
get into nature right Toexperience it, to find the love
for it, and I think we need allof that.
Yeah, I think we need everyonethat like comes to it in
different ways, because allthose perspectives are so
helpful.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Well, and I think too , like there's like a big thing
about like the reason why I evenpicked lo-fi in the first place
is because I'm a perfectionist,right, and the whole point of
lo-fi is, like it's supposed tobe kind of crappy, right.
It's supposed to like, if itsounds a little warbly, if you
didn't make it perfect, likethat's just being authentic to
the genre.
(11:57):
And I've had to really pushmyself to accept this idea of
done is better than perfect andthat this, like the reality of
life is that the bottom rungs ofthe ladder are just as
important to get to the top,right.
And so, yeah, have I had aformal education in stuff?
No, but I think that you'reright that I love connecting
(12:20):
with people that have.
I love like benefiting from theresearch and the science that's
out there.
I am a nerd.
I do read research papers.
I do cheat a little bitsometimes and ask chat GPT to
explain it to me if I don'tunderstand it.
So you know, I think that theplant community is exactly that.
It is a community of peoplethat come from all different
(12:42):
walks of life and experiences,and some of that experience is,
you know, lived experience, likeI've killed more plants than
I've helped live and some ofthat is through.
You know people who just readthe books and write the papers
and understand what xylem is.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Well, that's it's.
That's from my, I guess,experience.
Explaining it to people withxylem is like 80 percent of my
job.
It's like talking.
It's like they're like veins.
It's like, so they have hearts.
No, it's like a drolic system,yeah right is that it?
Yeah, exactly much yeah yeah,basically, yeah, it's
interesting.
So for the uninitiated, tell ifyou could put lo-fi in a
(13:27):
nutshell.
How would you explain lo-fi tolike an alien that showed up and
was like, yeah, what am Ilistening to?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
lo-fi can.
It can be a lot of things,right?
What it's become in the modernera is kind of like bedroom pop
made on a laptop without lyrics,right?
Traditionally it's instrumentalmusic, that's.
You know.
You're going to have lowertempos, it's calmer.
The stuff that I make is moreof what we would call dad jazz.
(13:55):
You know I draw a lot ofinfluences from Muzak, right?
I don't know if maybe yourlisteners are old enough to
remember Muzak, but Muzak, Ithink still to this day, is one
of the most profitable musicbrands ever.
Is it really?
They have a whole likeskyscraper in downtown LA.
They like, if I'd have to lookup some, I should have looked up
(14:17):
some Muzak fun facts.
I used to have a bunch of themon speed dial, but every
shopping center in America usedto have Muzak in it.
Every Kmart, every Walmart,muzak used to provide it.
So it was a brand and basicallythe idea of kind of what I put
out.
And Muzak is just like musicthat is not offensive to listen
to.
It's may not be an earworm inparticular, but that's kind of
(14:42):
the point.
It is there so that we don'thave to sit with the painful
silence of what you know theroom.
But we also like.
If I'm sitting at my desk andworking or I'm reading a book, I
might want some music on,because my mind is prone to
wander.
I don't know about you, butlike.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Oh, yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Change the light bulb and oh, I need to oversee it
Right.
Whatever it's, there's alwayslike some random thing that's
happening in my brain.
So having some music on is alittle bit helpful, but if it
has lyrics, now I'm thinkingabout what they're saying about.
So lo-fi really sits in thatspace where it's like, it's
enjoyable to listen to.
It's not bad music by anystretch of the imagination.
On the other side of it, youhave guys like jay dilla, who
(15:23):
really helped pioneer.
How do we subdivide and likewhere the beats in hip-hop and
things like that it?
Lo-fi means low fidelity, thoughis ultimately what it is, and
people would create lo-fi onlittle cassette players or
they'd use Roland makes thisthing called an SP-404.
They're essentially like littlebeat machines that you can grab
(15:46):
samples, which would be like aquick clip from a song, and then
maybe you'd reverse it or maybeyou'd affect it in some way and
turn that into a rhythm or agroove or a melody or a beat.
So lo-fi is essentially justinstrumental music.
Maybe you'd affect it in someway and turn that into a rhythm
or a groove or a melody or abeat.
So lo-fi is essentially justinstrumental music.
It can be.
It's a pretty broad genre, likeany genre ends up becoming, but
it's generally just like soft,relaxing instrumental music that
(16:09):
has some sort of jazz or hiphop influence involved in it.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I dig it.
So like it's interesting thatyou some of the things you said,
because my son definitely hassome like ADHD going on and he
comes by it honestly, like it'she's inherited it is an
inheritance from both his momand I and so like sometimes when
he's trying to go to bed, likehe can't sleep because his brain
will not shut up, like it justlike goes a million miles an
hour.
So the past few weeks we gothim a little speaker and he's
(16:37):
just been listening to lo-fiwhen he goes to sleep and like
it has revolutionized and I saythis like completely honestly,
like it's revolutionized hislike sleep.
Yeah, just because it, like Iguess, fills that little
spinning part in his brain.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, now I'm thinking about what's the drum
doing or what's the that youknow, right, like it very much
brings you into like thatpresent moment, right when I'm,
like I'm, it's just me here withthat song and whatever I'm
doing, whether it's sleeping,whether it's, you know, filling
seed trays, whether whatever youknow you name it.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah, he likes Nintendo lo-fi, like Nintendo
themed lo-fi, so like longplaylists, it'll be like that's
the Ocarina of Time.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yes, Honestly, that's some of my favorite as well.
It feels like that wheelhouseis thoroughly cluttered with
great artists making that stuff,so I've not ventured into it.
But every now and again I'mlike I should do like a bunch of
Zelda songs or a bunch of we'rebig Nintendo fans in our house,
(17:39):
so we are.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Oh yeah, I don't think we've ever gotten as much
mileage on a piece of tech thatI've ever bought as our Switch.
Yes, we have worn that thingout.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
We have worn it out.
We eventually got a second onethat we are currently wearing
out, and I think we're playingour 14th or 15th playthrough of
Luigi's Mansion right now.
There you go, you know orLuigi's Mansion two if we're
going to be specific.
So I think we should be.
My son is seven, so he's stilllike hasn't fully.
(18:06):
It's starting to form, but likethe like, what happens next
part of the brain isn't thereyet, so to him it's just like
the first playthrough to me.
I'm done ready?
Speaker 1 (18:15):
it's ready for a new game.
The shine's worn off, hadn't ityeah?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I mean it's a little bit, but yeah, I'm ready for
something we did.
We just did a donkey kongcountry, I think is the one that
they just re-released for theswitch, and that one was not my
favorite until we were abouttwo-thirds of the way.
It's just hard.
I'm not good at video gamesright, let's be, honest, I'm not
.
You know I make, but it's allin software and I do it one bar
(18:40):
at a time and it takes a while.
Right, we're not playing.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
And, by the way, if you're listening, this episode
is not sponsored by Nintendo,but it could be.
We would very much like that.
That would not hurt my feelings.
If, yeah, we'll work on that weplayed.
One of our favorite games wasMario Odyssey.
That's a winner.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, that is probably next in the rotation.
If we're being honest, we justkind of cycle through our games
until he earns enough lawnmowermoney to buy a new one.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
There you go, there you go, so interesting and that
kind of just to think throughsome of this, like that space
too, of like different thingsyou can do, and some of these
cozy games that fill that in mymind, a similar sort of niche in
people's brains.
Sometimes it's like lo-fi music.
I had a guest last year on theshow who actually produced a
(19:30):
gardening game called GardenLife.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Oh yeah, I have played that game.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
It's fun, yeah, and you just got prune roses and
it's very kind of like mindlessand great.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
That is 100% what I need video games to be yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
So, thinking about some of the like wildflower work
you do, it's really cool thatyou're finding different ways to
fund this.
Because I think that's asticking point for a lot of
people is I would love to bemore into native plants and more
into nature, but like I can'tafford it, I can't like whatever
.
You found a really creative way.
I don't want to say to fundyour habit, but to fund your
(20:10):
name, what it is yeah, that'sreally what it is.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, I mean gardening, mean gardening is
expensive and I think, at leastwhere we're at, like, we've
taken I'm almost out of place togrow stuff because obviously,
like I'm not a big fan of thelawn culture in the South I mean
, it's kind of all of Americaand so I also, just if I have to
(20:34):
do gardening in the Southduring August and July, I would
rather not be pushing alawnmower, I would rather be,
you know, pruning something orharvesting hop.
Like we have hops and we havelots of fruit trees.
We just put in three pawpawsand I'm probably going to let
I'm going to convince my wife tolet me put in two more so we
(20:56):
can have five.
It just doesn't look even yet.
So, yeah, but we have about4,000 square feet of wildflower
right now.
We have 1,500 in the front andthen the rest is in the back and
some of it's just like welucked out.
We just have like a reallysloping property, which is nice
because we'll never flood, itwill always run away from us,
(21:18):
but I don't want to mow it and,like I said earlier, if you
don't grow something, somethingwill grow, whether you want it
to or not in the South, and sowe I.
Just a couple of years ago itwas like, well, we're going to
do all wildflowers there, and sothe benefit is I don't have
much of a habit that needs to befed in my own yard anymore.
(21:41):
So the bonus now is we live inSouth Nashville here, and so
it's a little bit of a roughcommunity.
We are literally on the wrongside of the tracks, we don't get
a lot of resources and supportfrom city infrastructure, and so
there's a lot of just like hellstrips and roadside stuff and
(22:01):
ditches that are filled withtrash and litter and they get
bush hogged once or twice amonth and it's gross and ugly.
So we've been working with justreaching out to the city and
asking, hey, can we plantsomething else there?
And a lot of it gets pushedback and they're like, well, we
(22:22):
don't have budget for it orwho's going to maintain it.
And then the neat thing aboutthe native plant aspect is, well
, I'll plant it, you don't haveto pay for it, I'll plant it,
and because it's native, youdon't have to maintain it.
It's what is supposed to growthere.
And then you always get thepushback of, well, it's going to
get long and tall and so youget to get into the dialogue of
(22:45):
all the benefits that nativeplants have in terms of the
phytoremediation, where they'reactually helping to pull out all
the runoff and the oil and thepollutants and stuff from
getting further downstream.
They're going to stop and staythere and the thing that I love
about Nashville is that theyactually listen.
Oh that's cool yeah, and ourlittle neighborhood that we live
(23:06):
in.
We're all very active in ourcommunity and we talk to each
other and we set up meetingswith our city council person and
we do all that stuff and wekept having like flooding and
things like that in ourneighborhood because there's a
big creek that runs through it,and so we actually were able to
convince the city.
There was like a bunch of likerundown rental homes A couple of
(23:27):
years ago.
We convinced the city to buythem all from their owners and
just convert it into a riparianzone and so yeah and so, and
that has like almost 100%alleviated flooding on the Creek
like crazy, the floodplain,like I think people just don't
understand we're on a rabbittrail but we're going to go
there.
I think that people don'tunderstand that the point of a
(23:49):
like the way that water getsinto a Creek and gets into a
river isn't by just rolling overthe surface of the ground.
It is by absorbing into theground and then being filtered
through the ground and gravitypulling it down into a creek or
into a river.
And so we put all this stuff ontop of the part of the ground
that's supposed to absorb thewater and then it gets into the
creek way faster than it should,and then that's where we end up
(24:12):
with flooding issues.
But then when we have thesethings, like you know, bluestem
and gamma grass and these deeproot you know coneflowers, all
of these like prairie plants,they are designed to go super
deep into the ground and thenthat creates a pathway for water
to go in when it rains, andthey do a really good job of
(24:34):
catching that trash before itends up in the creek, before it
ends up down.
You know we're on theCumberland River and so you know
all the having all thosewildflowers on the side of the
road or in that ditch.
Yes, oh, somebody's going tohave to mow it.
If somebody's mowing it twice amonth or once a week in the
season anyways, why not mow itonce a month and give it a nice
Chelsea chop, right?
(24:54):
Instead of cutting it all theway down to the ground, just cut
it down to like six to 10inches off the ground.
It'll come back and it'll catchlitter and debris and act as a
filter, and then it's alsobolstering the local ecosystem,
right.
It's giving birds and bees andwasps and ladybugs and fireflies
and all of those things a placeto live and eat and succeed,
(25:18):
and that ends up being betterfor our community.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
That's and that's awesome.
And you know you were talkingabout lawns and stuff earlier
and like I think they they havetheir place to a certain extent,
but you know I, we're, we arehere, we're more Southwest than
South, so you know we're up hereon like a high elevation
prairie essentially, but we getlike 19 inches of rain, right
(25:42):
Like it's.
We're not, we're dry.
This year it's going to be lessthan that, I'm pretty sure.
Like I remember 2011 or so, wegot like four inches of rain all
year and it was awful and itwas like 112 degrees all summer.
Like it was bad, hard pass,real bad Hard pass.
Yeah, no thanks.
Like there's days that I'm likewhy do I live here?
Why I could move, I could goanywhere, but I know.
(26:05):
So when we think about likeplants for the landscape,
sometimes I think a lot of folksare like we should do our
landscape more like Dallas,where they get rain and it's
humid, than El Paso, where theydon't get rain, when really we
should be thinking, okay, whatworks in El Paso, where it's dry
, maybe a better choice for us?
And so, from an educationalstandpoint, like a lot of we do
(26:28):
a lot of like, hey, here are thebenefits of native plants and
native wildflowers.
They're beautiful.
These grasses are great.
You know you could do buffalograss and curly mesquite and all
of these different things Sideoats, grandma, black, grandma,
blue, grandma, there's so manyand, like you're saying, you mow
them a couple times a season,just because you whether they
(26:50):
need it or not, I guess, andthen you go on with your life
and I think there's.
You know, I've spent most of mycareer in water and landscape
and I see a shift.
It's just that ship turns soslowly.
Sometimes we get into this ideaof this is what a landscape is
supposed to look like and thenwe get bogged down, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
You know, it's fair to say that what we think is
landscaping.
I think oftentimes we like tothink that we have curated this
aesthetic, when corporateAmerica has really done a lot of
that, you know, and the lawnculture in America it's.
It makes companies big money andultimately, when you start
(27:33):
getting in it like in mydriveway I've got a huge heap of
wildflowers that I cut downlate fall, early winter that we
you start to realize, like thereis a point where this like
(27:53):
abundance thing kicks in, whereI don't, you know, like we are,
we're three years into the Ruiproject.
I'm starting to run out ofthings to spend money on,
because the sites are providingenough to then create new sites
and continue this cycle thing,whereas if we're doing a lawn or
a traditional garden, we'redoing, you know not, I
(28:14):
definitely have a few annualsthat are my favorite, but, like
if I could plan a perennial, Iwould rather a perennial, have
it come back year after year andget better and better over time
.
That's just not good business,right, if I've got a weed and
feed my lawn instead of slowlyconverting it to some other,
like I don't really have aspecific turf in my front yard?
(28:36):
Sure, obviously, is it MichaelPollan that said lawns should be
an area rug, not wall-to-wallcarpet?
I'm not sure?
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, and so it's like that's how we treat our
lawns.
Obviously, we need somewhere tolike lay down and look at the
clouds, and the dogs needsomewhere to run and catch the
ball, and the kids like we got aswing set.
We have all that stuff, butlike this idea of having edge to
edge short turf grass thatlooks fine on a golf course
(29:07):
because that's the purpose of it, right, you know I'm not a big
golf fan, but I understand likethat's a thing and people like
it and whatever gets you outside.
It is nice to start.
I know a lot of the courses inour area are starting to
incorporate native plants intothem.
That's always a nice.
You're like, yes, I like that,yeah, super cool.
But like you don't need tomaintain stuff at the same level
(29:28):
when you're investing into along-term ecosystem, right, and
that ultimately is just not goodbusiness for lawn care
companies, for Scots, for allthe things that we didn't feed,
and so you know, maybe I'mshowing that I'm a crunchy
hippie.
I'm not like a super crunchyhippie.
I'm a really weird enigma, likewe're all fully vaccinated.
(29:50):
I'm not like a super crunchyhippie.
I'm a really weird enigma Likewe're all fully vaccinated.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
We believe in science .
Speaker 2 (29:53):
We contain multitudes , right, yeah, I'm an enigma,
maybe.
So, yeah, I think it's justlike we have been taught to
think that the particularaesthetic of American gardens is
that that's the best way to doit, and the reality is that
there's no one way to do itright.
My garden some people come,like our front yard, our
(30:17):
installation of wildflowers inthe front doesn't like.
We just took a big seed mix andI think there's something like
22 or 23 different natives and Ijust mixed up a pound of
wildflower seeds and some sandand we just threw it.
We just said whatever growsright and we're just gonna let
nature do the thing.
Not that nature really has 27different seeds in one spot at
(30:39):
one time.
That's not really how it works,but like we pretend, yeah, it's
closer.
Yeah, and so we ended up with alot like the bearded beggar
ticks were really tall, yeah,and so we ended up with a lot
like the bearded beggar tickswere really tall.
The Illinois bundle flowerreally took off.
We what else was?
Partridge peas were insane andby July, seven feet tall, right,
(31:01):
Wow, it was great.
I mean, I loved it.
My wife is ready for it to belike yaros and cone flowers and
short stuff.
But the reason we did it too islike we live on a pretty like
it's a cut through street in ourneighborhood.
It's not like a main street,but it gets really busy and cars
move really fast and we haveyoung kids and so, like, how do
we create a natural barrierbetween the street and our kids?
(31:24):
Right, and so I just planted a,basically a moat of wildflowers
.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I like that actually a lot.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I think that more people should do it.
You know, by you know, lateJuly it was just this like seven
foot tall sea of yellow.
That was just like when youwalked up to it it almost
sounded like there was anelectrical problem nearby
because it's just so active withbees and that's cool.
Yeah, it's like such a coolsensory experience to like walk
(31:54):
up to this little island ofwildflowers in a you know
otherwise, we have a lot ofrenters and there's not a lot of
landscaping on our street.
It's like cars on lawns andstuff like that, and then you
just have this huge, you know,14, 1500 square foot of seven
foot tall yellow flowers.
And to some people they don'tlike it, it's not their thing,
(32:15):
right, and that's okay.
I think that gardens get tolook like however the gardener
that is tending it wants to.
And for me, my personal approachis that we are not apart from
nature.
We're a part of it, and so my,the space around my home isn't
necessarily supposed to be anextension of that like super
(32:36):
clean, tidy, homogenized thingthat's on the inside right, like
we vacuum, we don't.
It's not like I have a bunch ofbugs in my house and it's like
it's clean and tidy in my house,but we also don't do pest
control outside of our house andI enjoy the fact that there's a
den of possums in my backyardright now and my dogs are having
(32:57):
to go to the bathroom in thefront yard right now and they
don't like that.
But that's what it is, becauseI get this opportunity to have
this space to interface withnature and I don't have to go to
, you know, the local state parkto do that.
I can do it right here in urbanNashville and we have foxes and
(33:18):
possums and raccoons and,unfortunately, we saw a bear a
couple weeks ago, which isreally fascinating.
But also like I don't want.
I don't want to live where Ihave to like worry about bears
in my trash can.
Like I already look outside ofmy house for, like sketchy
people before I go out there, Idon't want to also now have to
look for bears.
But like we are a part ofnature and nature it's all in
(33:42):
our communities anyways, and soit's been really neat to like I
don't care.
We don't have an HOA, obviouslyin our neighborhood, so I don't
care what it looks like toother people.
I care what kind of things I getto find in my yard.
I care, you know, our tomatoesand our vegetables always do
amazing and we don't.
I don't, like we don't sprayanything at all.
(34:04):
Every now and again I'll doneem Like.
If we have powdery mildew, Imay do.
It depends on if I catch it atthe right time, like spinosad on
the blossoms of our fruit treesearly on, to prevent, for you
know, any kind of worms or moths.
But generally we just leteverything take care of
everything and we don't.
(34:26):
I don't have crazy big spidersin my house.
I've never gotten bit or stungby a wasp.
They're here but they're all sointerested in what's happening
in the patch.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
I think that's really interesting that you say that,
because I think people freak outabout stuff like bees.
Oh, there's bees and wasps nearmy house.
I'm like, yeah, but they don'thave anything else to do,
they're bored.
So you go outside and you're animmediate threat, right Like to
the hive, to the whatever.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
They're hungry.
They're, you know, like they'rein fight or flight mode because
they don't have a thrivingecosystem that they're a part of
.
They're struggling in thisdesert of biodiversity in urban
environments.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
And yeah, and so you give them essentially something
to do.
You let them exist like they'reand they don't care about you,
they don't want to bother you,they just want to go about their
thing and find food and exist.
Right, and I think you're right.
It's interesting.
I haven't really chased downthis like thought process before
, but it's really fascinating tome because we talk a lot about
(35:29):
like talking about bear, right,and how urban sprawl and things.
We tend to think about that interms of like, oh, I saw a
coyote, I saw a fox, I saw abear, and they're not acting
like they're supposed to becausethey're in the city and they
don't know what to do with that.
I don't think we extend thatvery often to insects and to
smaller animals, when it'sreally the same concept, right,
(35:51):
they're under stress, they'reout of their native habitat.
They don't, like evolutionarily, have the tools to handle that
well, so if we give themsomething to I don't know, feel
like home, essentially.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
I mean, I think a lot of instability in the world
comes from food insecurity andhousing insecurity.
Right, If humans have thatexperience, why wouldn't the
rest of the living organismshave that same experience too?
Speaker 1 (36:18):
We're all after the same thing, right yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I mean biologically, at a fundamental level, we are
all trying to reproduce andsurvive, right?
So whether you're a little tinyorganism or a wasp or a human,
there are needs that lookdifferent, but fundamentally
they are the same thing we needto eat, we need to have a place
to live that beautiful life fullof meaningful connections, and
(36:41):
if they don't have it, thenthey're stressed and that comes
out in being a jerk.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, that is really interesting.
I tell you what this seems likea great place for a quick
mid-roll.
So let's go do that stuff andtake a break, and when we come
back we'll talk more aboutnative plants and conservation
and how all of this fitstogether.
Well, hey there, welcome to themid-roll.
I'm so glad you're here.
Tell your houseplants I lovethem, and give them just the
tiniest little pat on the head.
(37:09):
For me, if you're noticing thatthe mid-roll music is different
this week, it's because it is.
This is actually a song calledYarrow by Rui himself, and it's
jazzy and it's awesome.
I love it so much.
So go check him out on Spotifyand all the players and listen
to more of his music.
But I think we're going tostart using some Rui originals
(37:32):
for our mid-roll music insteadof the jaunty elevator music
that I normally go with.
Hey, thanks so much for being apart of Plantthropology and for
listening this far.
I hope you've enjoyed theconversation.
I know I have Thanks to theTexas Tech Department of Plant
and Soil Science for supportingthe show, letting me do the
thing.
Thanks to Rui for agreeing tobe on, but mostly, as always,
thanks to you for being part ofthe Plantthropology family.
(37:54):
If you want to supportPlantthropology, there's a lot
of ways to do it.
You can follow along on socialmedia, all the places as
Plantthropology orPlantthropologyPod.
I am the plant prof all overthe internet.
If you want to ask questions,shoot me an email at
plantthropologypod at gmailcom.
Let me know your thoughts,episode ideas, all of that.
Leaving a rating and review forthe show wherever you can Apple
(38:15):
podcasts or Spotify or podchaser or anywhere else is a big
help.
It's great social proof and itlets me know that you're
listening and that you'reenjoying what you're hearing.
But the best way to probablysupport the show is to tell a
friend about it, tell them howmuch you enjoy it and get them
interested in plants and nature.
If you would like tofinancially support the show,
(38:35):
you can go toplanthropologypodcastcom, check
out some merch or go tobuymeacoffeecom slash
planthropology and for the priceof a cup of coffee you can pay
for hosting fees, I guess, butmostly coffee.
So I'm going to let you listento this rad dad jazz for a
couple more seconds and thenwe'll jump in to part two of the
(38:56):
episode.
Let's do it.
Just to go back to a point youmade earlier that you know you
(39:24):
have a place to go experienceall these things and your kids
and your family.
But also, I think a big themeof this season is going to be
community, and just think aboutwhat you're doing for the
community too, and whether ornot you ever get the neighbor's
kids that are like, hey, we lovethat you have giant fun flowers
, yellow flowers.
I think that they wouldn't getto see that, right, because,
(39:45):
like you said, like there's thisidea that we have to go to find
nature and in a lot ofcommunities people don't have
the means for that.
Yeah, so having access tonature is sort of like this
radical community building thatI think is so cool.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
It really is.
I think so much about just theway.
I don't know, I'm not sayingit's on purpose, but like it
does feel like we are taught tofeel so separate from nature,
like we are taught to feel soseparate from nature.
And so, you know, a lot of theinstallations that we do with
the Ruby project are at schools.
Those are the easiest people toget to say yes, right, because
(40:21):
it's like hey, can I come and,do you know, over the weekend
I'll put in.
Usually I try not to doinstallations that are smaller
than 10 by 10 square foot itseems to be anything smaller
than that.
It's like I'll send you someseeds and you can plant them and
that's nice.
A pollinator habitat needs tohave a bit of a footprint for it
to really make an impact anddraw in any kind of ecosystem to
(40:44):
it, and so.
But schools are, you know,there's always 10 or 20 square
feet on the side of a buildingsomewhere that they're cool with
.
Yeah, you can do whatever, andso.
But then I, you know youfollowed up with like I will
come regularly throughout theseason and we can meet with as
many or as few of your studentsas you want and talk about
(41:05):
what's happening here and noticewhat's happening here.
About what's happening here andnotice what's happening here
and it.
I think it's so crazy to me to,you know, meet kids who are in
Nashville who had no idea likeeven what ends up inevitably
what ends up happening.
As a teacher or two, we'll puta like bell pepper or a tomato
or something in there and I lovethat.
But what's always crazy to meis meeting these kids that have
(41:28):
no idea what a bell pepper on aplant looks like and being
flabbergasted.
That's wait, I eat, like that'sthe gross stuff that my parents
put on my plate and it's rightthere on the ground.
And then having that like aha,moment of like connecting, like
this is all connected right,like the bell peppers are going
to taste better if I grow myself.
They're going to grow better ifI have a diverse ecosystem, and
(41:51):
I can't have a diverseecosystem if we just plant
invasive species from Home Depotand Bradford, pears and privet
and all of that nonsense stuffthat is profitable for big box
stores but isn't reallyconnected with the reality and
(42:12):
the lived experience of peoplein those communities.
So it's like these are supercool.
All of our neighbors end up.
I think a couple of them were alittle like what are you doing
with your front yard at firstand again by the end of it.
They're all like they.
All of them were sad to see uscut it short at the end of the
season.
We didn't completely pulleverything down to the ground.
(42:36):
Basically, what we did with ourfront yard at least, is we cut
everything down to about six orseven inches tall, so it's short
still and it's caught a bunchof leaves in there and it's cool
.
And then we piled all of thestems and stuff in the back
under a tarp and there's stuffliving in there for sure and
(42:56):
then we'll process it for seedsany weekend.
Now I'm just looking for a freeone.
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Those are kind of a precious commodity, aren't they?
Free weekends, yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
I don't really know if I know what those are.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
It's been a while, yeah, yeah, it's been a minute.
A question just sort of relatedto all this Talking about, I
don't know, the community andthe public adoption and
perspectives on some of thesethings.
You know you do a lot on socialmedia and online One getting
your music out there and allthat but talking about some of
these issues and talking aboutnative plants, Do you get
(43:29):
pushback?
Are there people?
Because people on the internetare jerks?
Right, there's bad people onthe internet.
But like, how do you deal with?
Speaker 2 (43:36):
that I mean.
I think first you have toaccept the fact that, like there
are people out there that don'tlike pizza and golden
retrievers and they're wrong,they're objectively wrong,
they're wrong and that is partof our mental health crisis in
America.
I'm just kidding, I don't meanto make light of mental health
issues.
You can leave this part of thepodcast.
No, I think there's somethingcalled context collapse.
(43:56):
That happens online a lot,where people just lose sight of,
they may not fully understandwhat it is you meant by what you
said, and they may decide thatyou meant something different
and completely take it out ofcontext.
And just the hide for everyonebutton is your friend, right?
(44:18):
oh my goodness, yes, like at theend of the day, you know, being
in music, for sure, right, likeno one, you can't please all
the people all the time, right?
And and then, being inmarketing, part of my job is to
figure out who does and who doesnot like stuff, right, and so I
(44:39):
think for me I've just come tobe fine with people who aren't
interested in it.
There definitely are, you know,there's definitely Redditors
that are really dead set onhaving their very weird turf
grass that is more expensivethan it needs to be to grow in
that place in the first place,and you know they're just dead
(45:00):
set on it and that's fine.
I don't think I am of thebelief that I'm going to
convince everybody to grownative wildflowers and get rid
of their front lawn.
I don't think that's the pointof it.
The point is that, again, dothe bottom rungs of the ladder
get you to the top or not?
And so, but if you can, if Ican convince somebody to put in
(45:23):
a little patch of cone flowersor to grow, I mean, honestly,
I'm a big fan of yarrow right.
If you're in the Southeast, atleast yarrow's rad you want.
If you want ladybugs in yourgarden, you should plant yarrow,
right, absolutely Is you caneat it, it is nitrogen fixing,
it is middle of winter or Iguess the end of winter.
(45:47):
Thankfully it's still green inour yard, right, it never died
back, it's just out there doingits thing.
If I can convince people to putsome native plants in their
yard, that's a win, right?
And most of the time I thinkthat from a like, if you sit
down and you break down thelogic of it, right, we can talk
about the aesthetics and thebeauty, and that is the logic
(46:09):
for some people, right.
Well, I, you know, I, my yardlooks like a wildflower meadow
in the middle of nowhere.
It's, that's my yard, that'swhat I like, right?
I don't think that nativeplants have to look seven feet
tall and monstrous and buzzingwith bees and wasps and insects.
(46:31):
That's not everybody's cup oftea, but they might like a
blazing weed in the back of abed to give some height and some
visual interest.
They might like.
You know, native plants can bereally beautiful and really well
done and still kind of fit thatweird propagandized, you know
(46:53):
American landscape culture thatI don't fully understand.
But, yeah, do people get mad?
Sure, no-transcript somebody?
(47:30):
Hey, I noticed you've got aplanter outside, do you mind if
I plant it for you?
And they may say no and likethat's the worst that happens.
The worst that happens issomeone goes nope, sorry, please
leave.
All right, see ya, good luck.
Some guerrilla gardening, but Ifind that it's like a little
bit of a wasted effort because,number one, there are always
(47:54):
unintended consequences of whatyou're doing and again, I'm not
a studied academic on it.
My goal is to help, not to harm, and I think that oftentimes
guerrilla gardening is reallywell intended.
But just asking somebody if youcould plant something where
something isn't growing isalmost always a better strategy
(48:17):
than like.
I mean, seed bombs don't evenwork anyways, right.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
No, not really.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Seeds did not evolve to be wrapped up in clay and
hucked over a fence.
Most native seeds they want tohave I'm going to cuss, you're
going to have to cut this outthey want to have their ass to
the ground and their face to thesky, and that's just how plants
evolved.
They didn't.
Most things didn't evolve tolike get buried several inches
in the ground evolve to like getburied several inches in the
(48:44):
ground.
Vegetables and produce andthings like that is a little bit
different, because it wants tobe eaten and then pooped out,
but like native wildflowers andgrasses are going to get blown
in the wind or they're going tocatch on something's fur or a
combination thereof, and so justneed a little soil contact and
that's it.
Yeah, that's it, and so you justthrow them and walk away.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Well, and it's this concept too I think of, like
giving a man a fish or teachinga man to fish, right, like if,
yeah, you could go throw somewildflower seeds in an empty lot
and that's fine.
Or you could, like you're doing, talk to the city, talk to
people in the neighborhood andbe like here's why we're doing
this, and I think we get intothis.
Oh, I just have to do it.
It's this almost like saviorcomplex sometimes, instead of I
(49:21):
want to build community and Iwant to like and I like, and
again I agree with you.
I think like guerrillagardening, seed bombs, all that
it's really well intentioned,but I think we're not like that.
That next step of how do I usethis to make not just the
environment but the people inthat environment like happier
and healthier, and there's somuch research that shows that
(49:44):
greener spaces and urbanenvironments has better
education outcomes.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
It has a reduction of crime rate, right, like there's
so many reasons why, like Ijust made this huge argument
with city Nashville and thatthey're putting in 180 trees
near our house because crimerate is super high in this part
of town and there are no treesthat are acting as heat sinks.
Planting plants makes the worlda better place and it is wild
to me that is a hot take.
(50:09):
It is wild to me that wehaven't figured this out.
It is like did nobody?
Like where are all themillennials that grew up on
captain planet?
What happened?
So it's.
But yeah, if you just ask andyou make, especially if you want
to get involved at the likecity level, there are city
planners out there andbeautification directors and
people in your community thatare looking for easy wins.
(50:31):
Take your ADHD hyper fixationand make a plan and go to them
and say, hey, I made this plan.
I think that we should put abunch of trees here and here and
I think that we should usethese trees because they're the
state tree or they're the nativetree, or they're I like this
tree, or they're not Bradfordpears, and this is my plan.
(50:54):
These are the locations.
I think that these would begreat Nine times out of 10,
they'll just look at it and go.
As long as your math is right,they'll go.
Yeah, let's do it.
Okay, cool, yes, done.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
You've made something easy for them.
Submit it.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
Right, and that's how it works in, like when I'm
marketing music.
If I'm trying to get somebodyto do a write-up on an artist or
get an ad to work or whatever,you just have to make a win for
them.
And so people I don't thinkpeople don't want more
wildflowers.
I don't think people don't wanta better, safer community.
I don't think they don't wanttheir kids to have better
outcomes at school.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
I just think that they forget or don't realize
that plants and the communityaspect of that is what actually
creates that.
Yeah, super cool.
Wow, like this is such a greatconversation, I have a couple of
questions, as we sort of justwrap up, that I like to try to
get from my guests.
The first is like where do yousee this going?
What do you want to do withthis?
I mean, I know you're it seemslike you've had a lot of success
with the Rooey project and,like you said, you're running
(51:52):
out of space to plant stuffGoing forward.
Do you have like step two,phase two, or just to kind of
keep doing what you're doing?
I haven't.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
I didn't think it would work this well, so I
haven't really thought about itof like, what is the next step
here with the project?
I mean, there are always goingto be places to to do plans.
Obviously we've got all theschools within a radius of us
have stuff.
You know, all the schoolswithin a radius of us have stuff
.
You know.
I think maybe the next step isjust to start putting stuff on.
(52:27):
You know we were, my wife and Iwere talking about the day.
Maybe I start posting on nextdoor and saying, hey, do you
want me to come do an install inyour house?
You know, I don't know.
I don't know what it is.
I'm, you know, to those that arelistening, if you have an idea,
let me know, find me on theinternet, give me your thoughts.
Right now we're just going tokind of keep on keeping on.
I'm trying to put on a songevery six to eight weeks, as I
(52:50):
can, and I'm delivering a song,hopefully, fingers crossed, by
the end of the day.
Today it's all done, I justhave to upload it.
I know I get it that final.
The top rung of the ladder issometimes hard to reach.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
I get it.
That's show notes.
That's writing show notes forme.
I'll do all this stuff and I'mlike I'm done, I don't want to
do this anymore.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
I think I have like six songs that are done and five
of them need artwork and namesand that's it and that's
probably like a 20 or 30 minutejob.
When that's probably like the20 or 30 minute job, when am I
going to find that?
Speaker 1 (53:25):
But yeah, the dopamine is not in it yet.
I understand.
I understand Very well.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Yeah, very well, so I don't know what's next.
To be honest, okay, no, that'scool though we're just going to
keep playing plants Love it.
Maybe we'll do trees next.
Yeah, more pawpaws.
Yeah, pawpaw is actually thenext song.
Oh, great yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
There's a flower on the tree.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
right yeah, it's like a purple triangular kind of
stinky flower.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
A little bit, but it could be worse.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
It could yeah, it could be a bread for pear.
It could be stinkhorn mushroomsoh God, we have those in our
garden.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
Y'all have.
This is a total aside.
Do you have a buffalo gourdthere, or stink?
Speaker 2 (54:00):
gourd.
We don't have stink gourd, butI know what stink gourd is and
I'm so glad we don't have todeal with it.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
There's a lot of it out here, like it's native out
here and so in a lot of ournative spaces, like it's there,
which is great, it's a perennialcucurbit.
Those are rare, neat.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
No thanks, I'm out not all nature is enjoyable.
Yeah, yeah, you yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
Yeah, I know.
Last question I have if therewas like one piece of advice,
one thing you'd like ourlisteners to take from this
episode, what would that be?
If, like you, had a and it canbe about what we've been talking
about or anything- I think thatdone is better than perfect is
probably the thing.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
right that there are a lot of projects or things or
ideas or hopes that you mighthave and ultimately, don't let
this perfect version of itprevent you from even trying and
figuring it out, becausewhether it's music or whether
it's native gardening or whetherit's local conservation, 99% of
(55:04):
success is just consistentlydoing the most obvious thing for
an uncommonly long period oftime, without assuming you're
smarter than you are.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
That's really good advice yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:14):
And so just do it.
Just do it, even if it's notperfect.
Cool, that's just the bottomrung of the ladder and you just
keep climbing until you get tothe top.
You'll get there eventually,but don't let being really you
know, we say this to our kidsall the time is because my kids
are like, they're like that, youknow, when they try a new sport
or they.
We went to a skate park theother day.
(55:34):
My son had never been to askate park, sent him there and
he kept falling.
Being bad at stuff is thenumber one way to get really
good, and so you just done isbetter than perfect.
Just do it.
Fail at it.
Take all that failure, use itas feedback and keep going.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Very cool.
Well, Rui, this has been a lotof fun.
I just looked up and it's beenalmost an hour.
That's a great conversation.
I know when can we find you.
Where should we send people?
Speaker 2 (55:59):
You can find me on.
I'm usually on instagram, I'malmost always on threads or you
can just go to my website.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
It's rueyco r-o-o-e-yco okay, very cool, and
you're on spotify, I'm onspotify, I'm on apple music, I'm
on title, I'm on yandex.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
That's a thing.
Yandex is like a russianstreaming platform.
I I think Okay, I didn't knowthat until I got a royalty check
from them.
So that's great.
So the only place I'm not islike normal radio yet.
So I guess, call your localradio station and request a
movie song.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
It's more lo-fi dad jazz.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (56:36):
Who doesn't yeah?
Speaker 1 (56:37):
Yeah, man, it was a lot of fun.
Thanks for being on.
I keep doing what you do and Ilove it.
Yeah, thanks for having meY'all.
If there's one thing I tookaway from this episode, I think
it's that we can find such coolintersections and ways to make
the world better through ourpassions, whether that's a love
of music, a love of plants, alove of nature or the
conjunction of all those things.
(56:59):
Rui does such a good job ofusing his gifts and using his
talents and using the things heloves to make the world around
him better, and I think that'ssomething we could all really do
with some more of right now andreally take to heart.
Thanks again to Rui for being apart of this, and I hope you'll
go check out his music all overthe places.
Thanks again for listening toPlantapology.
You know I do this for you andI'm just so grateful that you're
(57:23):
a part of it.
Thanks again to the Texas TechDepartment of Plant and Soil
Science.
Plantthropology is hosted,written, produced all of those
things by yours truly.
Our intro and outro music is bythe award-winning composer,
nick Scout, and our mid-rollmusic now is by my buddy, rui.
I hope that you are well, Ihope that you're enjoying spring
(57:43):
and, by the way, happy spring.
We're just now getting into itand I hope that you're being
kind to one another.
If you have not, to this point,been kind to one another, it's
getting to be more and more of aradical act and I think that
you should give it a shot.
Be good, be safe, keep beingreally cool, plant people, and I
will talk to you real soon,thank you.
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