122. Green Communities, Urban Conservation, and Just Showing Up w/ Gary Cocke and Carole Fergusson

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Gary Cocke and Carole Fergusson share their journeys in sustainability and community conservation, revealing how partnerships between universities, cities, and local organizations create meaningful environmental impact in Waco and beyond.

• Gary's background in biology and ecology led him to sustainability work, first in water conservation during drought conditions
• Carole entered sustainability through nonprofit marketing and event planning, combining her personal passion for gardening with professional skills
• The Baylor "Bearly Used" program diverted 13 large pods of student move-out items to community partners instead of landfills
• Keep Waco Beautiful volunteers generate approximately $200,000 in economic impact annually through their service hours
• The Green Communities Conference brings together academia, government, nonprofits, and citizens to address local sustainability challenges
• Both leaders emphasize that sustainability is fundamentally about people and building community resilience
• Climate impacts are increasingly visible in Texas through longer heat spells, winter storms, and worsening allergy seasons
• Small personal actions like composting and planting native species create "pockets of joy" while contributing to larger solutions

Join us at the Green Communities Conference on September 17-18 in Waco, Texas to connect with sustainability leaders and learn practical approaches to building greener communities.

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Planthropology is written, hosted, and produced by Vikram Baliga. Our theme song is "If You Want to Love Me, Babe, by the talented and award-winning composer, Nick Scout. Midroll tunes are by Rooey.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is up?
Plant people.
It's time once more for thePlantthropology podcast, the
short way to dive into the livesand careers of some very cool
plant people, to figure out whythey do what they do and what
keeps them coming back for more.
I'm Vikram Baliga, your hostand your humble guide in this
journey through the sciences and, as always, my dearest friends.
I am so excited to be with youtoday, especially after a break.
So I had a summer break and Ihope that was okay for you, it

(00:23):
was nice for me and I'm actuallycoming back because last time I
took a summer break it was likesix months long and I'm so
sorry.
I'm so sorry but, to be fair, Ilive in Texas and the summer is
very long here.
So my guests today for the firstepisode of the second half of
season six of Planthropology areactually two guests, and they
are Gary Kaki, the SeniorDirector of Sustainability at

(00:44):
Baylor University, and CarolFerguson, the Executive Director
of Cape Waco Beautiful.
I've worked with both Carol andGary on the Green Communities
Conference, which is coming upin a couple of weeks, by the way
, and you should come see us inWaco and it is a product of Cape
Waco Beautiful and Baylor andthe city of Waco, and it's a
wonderful collaboration becausenow Texas Tech gets to help as

(01:06):
well, as well as the Universityof Texas at Austin and a couple
of different groups.
So, basically, this conferencetalks about how can you build a
stronger green community fromrecycling to better plantings,
to community aid and everythingelse.
It's wonderful, but Gary andCarol are such an interesting
pair of people who have done somuch in the public space,

(01:28):
whether that's in conservationand sustainability, in event
planning and communityorganizing and doing clean, how
to be more sustainable in yourtown and just how to show up how
to show up and plug in and bepart of something.

(01:51):
So this is a wonderfulconversation that I think you're
really going to enjoy.
I know I enjoyed having theconversation and I really
enjoyed getting to listen to itagain while I was editing as
well.
So grab your recycling bin and anice hat and some sunscreen and
get yourself ready for episode122 of the Planthropology
podcast, green communities,conservation and just showing up

(02:13):
with Gary Kaki and CarolFerguson.
We'll give it a couple secondsto think about its life choices

(02:43):
and then, all right, well, y'all.
Gary, carol, I am so excited tohave you with me today.
We, I think, started talkingabout this like in I don't know
March or April, and then somehowit's already August, which is
very upsetting, but I'm reallyexcited to have y'all on.
So why don't you introduceyourselves a little bit, gary,
if you want to go first and justtell us about you, where you're

(03:03):
from, what you do and all thatfun stuff?

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, my name is Gary Kaki.
I am the Senior Director forSustainability at Baylor
University, and so by educationI've studied biology as an
undergrad and a grad, and then Idid my graduate work with a
concentration in ecology andconservation kind of just a guy
that always liked being outside,and so my studies kind of

(03:30):
followed that passion.
But I didn't necessarily knowthat I was headed towards a
career preserving nature.
But as I progressed with myeducation I studied the way that
mercury moves in the aquaticecosystems, and so that opened a
door for me to have my firstjob in sustainability with the

(03:50):
city of Plano.
And although I wasn't doing anyhard science, I was doing water
conservation.
It lit the fire forsustainability for me, because
there's no better crash coursein effective conservation than
doing water conservation duringa drought.
And so I learned how you cancommunicate and work with

(04:14):
communities to steward a sharedresource.
I went and got my irrigationlicense and I went and spoke to
every HOA that would listen tome speak and I wrote thousands
of tickets for people that werewatering irresponsibly, and so
that really, you know, turned mypassion away from, you know,
the science towards communitywork for sustainability.

(04:38):
And then that job got a littleboring actually, as we came out
of the drought, and so anopportunity at the University of
North Texas came up to lead thegreen fund there, which it
generally collects a student feefrom from each student and then
it organizes a student-runprocess so that we can get ideas

(04:59):
for what students want to seein the sustainability program
and solicits those ideas, and soI organized that process.
But the more fun part wasworking with students to help
them.
You know, go from having apassion and wanting to do some
good to putting together a fullplan with a budget and an
implementation process and thestakeholders aligned so that we

(05:22):
could do some good work, and sothat was really fulfilling.
We launched community gardens,we got more sustainable shirts
to give away at student events,we first purchased renewable
energy, and so that was where Ilearned that my home was higher
ed, and then I had anopportunity from there at the
University of Texas at Dallas,where I spent about seven years

(05:45):
and was able to lead a fullyscoped sustainability program
that was working with facultyand staff and impacting
operations and continuing towork with the students.
That I really found fulfilling.
And at Baylor we're doing thatsame work.
We have a new strategic planthat has really prioritized
stewardship of the environment,and so it's been really

(06:08):
rewarding to jump in to thiswork with the lessons that I've
learned in my career and to havestrong support from leadership
to kind of paint a picture on ablank canvas and really, you
know, figure out whatsustainability at Baylor is
going to be as we fulfill thestrategic plan no-transcript.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Like all that, you know, we've been in our college
working through a strategic planfor a year and a half and I get
all twitchy when anyone saysthat anymore because it's like I
don't know post-traumaticstress from it.
But it is important to knowwhere we're going and how we get
there.
I mean it's super cool.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yes, absolutely.
And then having that at thehighest level to really make
sure that the sustainability ofwork is not just the lip service
that you referenced, that it issubstantive.
It's really important to haveas we go out and engage our
community with the work.
For sure, for sure.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Well, Carol, your turn.
You're up.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
Man, that's a hard one to follow.
I am not professionally oreducationally trained as either
of you, but my background isactually in nonprofit marketing
and communications and I alsohave a really strong background
in events.
And this position opened upOctober of 21 and was ready to
make a leap into a leadershiprole.
I had some experience in it andwanted to do it at a higher

(07:55):
level, and so when thisopportunity opened up, I was
like this is great.
This aligns with some of mypersonal morals.
I am a gardener.
I grow and kill plants nonstopyear round, actively killing an
entire garden at the momentThanks Texas heat and I
personally just love caring formy environment.
As just a human, I feel likeit's important.

(08:15):
I find a lot of spiritualconnection in nature, always
have had those moments, justwhether it's going for a walk or
hiking.
I just really feel superconnected to the earth, and so
this was kind of a fun like oh,this kind of hits on some
personal joys of mine and I hadno idea I'd be doing what I'm
doing now and it is honestlyjust incredible work.

(08:36):
And so, yeah, we kind of weird.
I'm coming up on four years.
My actual education is abachelor's of science or a BS
degree in psychology, so that BScould be whatever you want it
to think it to be.
We all know what it is.
I had debated on doing mymaster's and, you know, the more
and more as time went on, Ihave a very strong affinity for

(09:00):
human behavior and neuroscience.
I am quite a nerd at heart, butI actually just love working
with humans in the capacity thatI do now, and so it was more of
a mantra of community andworking with my community and
making my community better andstronger and healthier and more
beautiful, and so this roleactually allows me to do that
and it's really awesome.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
So I just use that BS degree to judge people on the
side, which you know, know,everyone needs a little judgment
in their life, you know that'sthe way to go yeah so just just
out of curiosity, like as anexecutive director for an
organization like keep wacobeautiful right that that feels
like there's a lot of movingparts, like herding cats is that
what you spend most of yourtime?

(09:39):
Is it like?

Speaker 3 (09:40):
yeah just coordinate thousand moving parts all the
time yes, you know that memefrom it's Always Sunny in
Philadelphia, with the guy withall the sheets and the strings.
I joke, I'm like that is mymind.
That is literally what ishappening and, yeah, it is kind
of like turning the chaos intoorder and I also really enjoy
that.
I think that's actually a verydeep childhood wound of mine.

(10:03):
I've worked on over the lastseveral years and it actually
has worked out well in my adultlife to utilize that skill and
so, yeah, I it is very much aherding cats, herding all of the
people.
You know, internally we're areally small organization,
really only two people, but thenwe work with so many people

(10:23):
across the community and nowacross the state, and I've
worked with people across thecountry overseas.
We have grown in some of thework that we have done in
collaboration with people beyondthe city of Waco jurisdiction,
and so it's really honestly apleasure to be doing what I'm
doing and just the timing ofwhere I'm at.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
So that's, I think, an interesting kind of thing to
think about, because you knowthere are organizations across
the country that's like KeepInsert City Beautiful.
But then, like we talked abouta little bit earlier, you know
Gary sort of is doingsustainability on a city inside
your city.
So can y'all talk, both eitherof you, about the partnership a

(11:03):
little bit between the city ofWaco Keep Waco Beautiful and
Baylor, because you know, livingin a college town or a
college-ish town like Lubbock,like the university and the
world around the university arevery like.
They're so intertwined, likehow do y'all make that work?

(11:24):
How do you work together?
What kinds of things do youpartner on?

Speaker 3 (11:28):
it's a good question, gary.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
I'll let you take the lead on this from a bailer
perspective yeah, and I might,I'm gonna step back a little bit
and I'm gonna kind of go bigpicture down to this community
engagement.
So, you know, as we talk aboutsustainability as a field, we

(11:58):
are interested in the a field,we are interested in the
environment and then, I think, alarge responsibility that
universities should fulfill.
We should teach it in theclassroom so that we train the
next generation of leaders.
We should drive innovationthrough the research.
We should model our valuesthrough the way that we care for

(12:22):
our campus.
We should foster a culture onour campus so that students
understand these values andunderstand their voice within
the field of sustainability.
And then the part that starts toget at your question is, I
think, that universities have arole to serve the communities in
which they exist.
And so, as we have been buildingout what sustainability is at

(12:47):
Baylor, that is the goal that weare working towards, and so, as
I've been able to partner withCarol and other people that are,
you know, doing the work in thecommunity, it is a mechanism to
make sure that Baylor is notjust, you know, talking about it
in the classroom, but thestrategic plan that we've

(13:10):
launched is Baylor Indies.
We want to make sure that whatwe are doing is evident and
visible and impacting people andthrough partnerships for the
green communities conference,litter cleanups and various
other ways that we're able topartner with kind of those that
are on the front lines doinggood work in the community.
It is something that we hope weare providing value to Waco and

(13:35):
I know that it provides valueso that students are able to
have experiential learning,hands-on experiences, to
understand not just the theoryof sustainability but understand
what it looks like when you godo the work.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
You know that's super important.
We talk about experientiallearning and community-based
learning and I think somethingwe've fallen into in academia
and it's something I've noticedhere.
You know I can't speak foranyone else, but here I've
noticed that like we sort oflike, oh, we're going to do this
campus cleanup, we're gonna dothis, whatever we're gonna do x,
y and z and then you lookaround town and it's like, oh,

(14:09):
we could be having such a bigimpact.
So I think what you're talkingabout of like, okay, we, we
learn in the classroom, we learnhands-on on campus, but then we
take it out and we engage withour community because, like we
were discussing there's, they gohand in hand.
They're so like inexorablyrelated and intertwined From the
outside.
Looking in, carol, sort of like,what's been your experience?

(14:31):
Like I don't know how much likeFaceTime you put in with
students or how much youactually practically work with
students.
What's that like for you fromthe outside?
And I asked that question for aspecific reason because,
selfishly, one of my roles is inoutreach and engagement and
getting students to go do thingsin the community.
And I'm going to be very honestwith you, that is terrifying

(14:55):
for me sometimes as an educatorbecause I listen to
conversations that my studentshave sometimes and I'm like why
would you think to say that, how, where did that come from?
And then we send them out andit's like you'll be adults.
So I'm curious, from theoutside, looking in, what is
that like?

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, it's a great question.
Well, we're so privilegedbecause Baylor has kind of a
rule with anyone who's involvedwith any sort of on-campus
organization that there's arequirement to contribute a
certain amount of communityservice hours each semester, a
certain amount of communityservice hours each semester.
And we have had an influx ofBaylor students for years and

(15:30):
years and we're a 45-year-oldorganization.
So we have established, we arethe community organization to
volunteer with in Waco.
Since I've assumed the role, Ihave worked really hard at the
nitty-gritty detail of formingour volunteer programs, hard at
the nitty gritty detail offorming our volunteer programs,
where it's a program that peoplewant to join and whether it's a
family, youth or Baylorstudents or the community

(15:51):
college students that are nearby, and so we actually have a lot
of our volunteers are actuallyBaylor students and I do program
a lot of our work towards themand in the timing of that I know
that they will be able to wantto volunteer, but also that's
when they will get their hoursin.
And so it's really fun because,to your point, while I'm not an
educator and I haven't steppedfoot in academia in quite a

(16:14):
while, hearing thoseconversations even at our
volunteer events, I'm like man,I'm really glad to be of safety
vest.
There's those little moments.
But also, at the the same time,it gives me so much joy to see,
as time has gone on, thisgeneration, this age group that
has this passion.
And you know, they're stillfiguring it out, they're still

(16:35):
getting their feet under themand they are still spreading
their wings and really startingto see the world for the first
time.
And you know, we're all parents, you kind of see that with your
own kids and you can still seethat bit of wonder and sparkle
in their eyes and I'm like, ohgood, you're not where I'm at,
like you're not, you're not,like you know that feeling of,
oh you're, you're just not thereyet.
I love this for you.

(16:56):
You are going to take it andyou're going to grow this and I
really feel like this generationis going to save us in a lot of
ways and I have a lot of hopefor them and I feel like they
have proven a lot of that hopeto still be valuable because
they are, they're showing up andit's beyond their community
service hours that are requiredof them that they're showing up,
and so it's.
It's been a really a greatpleasure for me to see this from

(17:17):
the other side, even when I'mlike, okay, maybe not a chainsaw
for you at this event, good toknow, we will be careful with
that tree clearing project.
But otherwise it's honestlyincredible to watch our Baylor
students and I always reach backout to you department heads
when I can and just complimenttheir hard work, because when
you're an educator at theseuniversities that you guys work

(17:40):
at, it's kind of a mixed bag ofwhat you could be getting and
you don't know what that couldlook like and engaging them to
the community and bringing themout of their shell a little bit.
It can be a little bitdifficult, but I feel like we
just have such a great group ofkids that have worked with us
over the years and they'repassionate, and that's what I
think is really important isthat we all subconsciously have

(18:01):
the same mission.
Even if they don't know ourmission, they just have it in
the back of their minds.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
That's, that's cool and that actually it makes me
feel really good to hear you saythat, because I think there is
unfortunately, like a I don'tknow.
You hear people talk.
You're like, oh, these kids andmaybe I'm just getting old and
my friends are also getting old,so I hear them talk as well but
, like, the kids are okay, likeI spend a lot of time with Gen Z

(18:28):
and, like you said, they'repassionate about what they do.
You know some of the thingsthey're passionate in the way
they approach it is differentthan I think what a lot of
people are used to.
But, like you said, they'll goover and above for things in a
way that, like myself when I wasin college, my friends, my

(18:48):
colleagues, like we never did,yeah, it'll be.
Like, yeah, we need you for twohours today and they end up
spending the whole day with you,like pulling weeds, it's
incredible.
Whatever, it's really cool.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
Yeah, and you know, I think back to my own college
experience and I was in studentgovernment.
I was changing policy on campusand I really enjoyed that and I
was in marching band Like I mean, literally a nerd over here and
I was doing stuff like climbingbuildings and sitting on the

(19:19):
rooftops watching kids move inand then, you know, instituting
actual policies of identifyingwho was on the leadership of the
student government, likeembedded into, like you know,
proclamations, so that's intheir bylaws now, and then
changing out the picture framesof some of these previous
leaders to us students in theseimportant halls.
I wasn't doing litter pickups, Iwasn't out there, really

(19:41):
embedded in the community that Iwas living in.
And it's just, it's reallyimpactful to see these kids
actually show up eight o'clockin the morning on a Saturday.
It's hot and they're gettinginto the river and they're
pulling out the trash andthey're they get excited about
it and that's what's so cool tosee is that they actually
decently want to make adifference in the community that
they're living in.
And I don't know that maybe ourage range was doing that as

(20:04):
much, and so I really think it'sreally special for us to see
this happen.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Carol, to kind of build on what you're talking
about too, I think that havingpartnerships like what we have
with Keep Waco Beautiful, itchanges lives and I know for me,
as I think about kind of mytrajectory, where I was a
biology major and I didn't knowwhat I was going to do with it.

(20:31):
I was asked if I was going tobe a doctor and I knew I wasn't
going to do that.
I was asked if I was going tobe a teacher, and I knew I
wasn't going to do that.
But literally the last classthat I took, being a guy that
just likes being outside, I sawthat I could get six upper level
credit hours for backpacking inColorado taking a course Alpine

(20:52):
Lake Ecology and so I went andI did that and it was incredible
and I didn't know it at thetime, but like that was the
inflection point that took mefrom undergraduate that didn't
know where he was headed tosomebody that is working in a
career that is completelyfulfilling.

(21:13):
I the work I helped do somewater quality testing in the
mountains.
I got along very well with theprofessor, was recruited to grad
school because of that andultimately built my education
such that, you know, I foundmyself working in higher ed and
I now have a real passion forengaged learning because, like

(21:34):
y'all are discussing, you knowstudents want to do good and
they are here for it.
But the challenge withsustainability, I think, is that
you know sometimes you don'tquite understand what you bring
to the table or where you wouldfit in, and you also may not
feel like you have agency overthese issues.

(21:55):
You know, if you're 19 yearsold and trying to figure out
your way through college, not tomention your way through the
world, how are you going to feellike you have some agency to
address food security in yourcommunity?
Well, it's through thesecommunity partnerships where
students can go and, withmentorship, they can work on the

(22:15):
front lines and they can seewhat progress really looks like
and they understand the value oftheir education towards doing
good in the world and over timethat can really change the
trajectory for students.
And it's a real passion formine and that's why these types
of partnerships are somethingthat I value very highly in the
work that I do.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yeah, it's amazing and I think, vikram, it's
important to note that Gary hasabsolutely transformed Baylor's
efforts in this realm.
I mean, the guy wasn't evenofficially in the job yet and we
were putting him to work onlast year's conference, didn't
even know him.
I was like here's everythingyou need to do and he just
jumped right in, and so it'sbeen so impressive to see the
transformation happen, both onand off campus.

(22:58):
And, like I mean, right now youguys have move-ins and you guys
are actively helping supportthat in a sustainable realm and
just making sure that everythingis being diverted correctly,
and that is such a huge feat totackle.
And so, yeah, it's really coolbecause, like you say, you can
easily lose hope and thinkwhat's the point of what we're

(23:18):
doing?
Then you get with some of thesepeople who work across the city
in their own respectiveindustries and you collaborate.
That's just where the magichappens.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
We've talked about partnerships and some of the
high level things that I thinkboth organizations do with
Baylor Sustainability and KeepWake Up Beautiful but I'd like
to get just a little morespecific and talk about, like
you know I know it's a lot ofdifferent things, I know it's
not just one thing and,depending on what day it is,
there could be 15 differentthings that you do but could

(23:52):
y'all just both tell us about,like one kind of project you do,
like a specific kind of project, like whether it is like a city
cleanup that we do with or thatyou do with Keep Waco Beautiful
or Gary, you were talking aboutbeing out helping with move-ins
and recycling and things likethat.
Like, I would just like to hearand I think it would be really
interesting for folks to hearsome of the like rubber meets

(24:15):
the road kind of things abouthow we're impacting communities
and what kinds of projects gointo that.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yeah, I am a big fan of, you know, tapping into that
idealism and energy withstudents, and so the most
meaningful work is always thosewhere students are alongside and
I kind of open doors and sharea little bit, but they do a lot
of the work.
An example of this would beduring move out.

(24:44):
It is just, you know, madnesson campus, all of the students
are eager to get out the door.
They've taken their finals,they've got exciting plans over
the summer, and there's often alot of waste.
That happens during move outand some students had spotted
this and they came to me, andthey came to our campus living

(25:06):
and learning director and askedyou know, what can we do?
We want to do better, and so wewe workshopped some ideas and
we ultimately settled on, youknow, if we are able to get
these large pods they're eightfeet by eight feet by 16 feet
and we put them near everyresidence hall.

(25:27):
We recruited a team ofvolunteers that during move out,
we tried to make it as easy aspossible to you know, we want
everything staged here.
Here are the items that we knowwe can take.
We arranged with communitypartners so that we were getting
furniture and drawers andclothes and hygiene items that
community partners could put togood use and collected them all

(25:51):
and we ultimately filled up 13pods that were 8 by eight by 16
huge amount, and we began to getnervous because we weren't sure
if we were going to be able toultimately get these all to
somebody.
And we did.
We had people come out of thewoodworks.
We have community partners thatweren't originally on our radar

(26:13):
.
I heard what we were doing andraised their hand and we got a
lot of you know furniture toteachers that needed in their
classroom an amazing story.
And it was all because studentssaw an opportunity to do better
, but they just needed a littlehelp and have the door open for
them.
And, to your point, with youknow the hustle that this
generation has the students.

(26:35):
I saw that they posted onLinkedIn that during the course
of that move out week he wastalking about his step counter
counted 80 miles of walking backand forth.
So I mean sweat equity likecrazy.
And now this is going to be anongoing initiative.
We we branded it barely usedbecause we're the Baylor Bears

(26:56):
and we have the kind of theinfrastructure in place such
that we'll have student leadersthat are able to do this year
over year, with it supported ina budget in the office.
So those are just.
Those are really rewarding andI like to think that as they
leave campus and go into theworld, they're going to take
some some valuable lessons withthem as leaders.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
That is very cool.
That's such a cool project.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Is that my turn?
Yeah, so I think I'm kind offinding a fun way to tie into
this a little bit on our endwhat I think we're all finding
here.
It's like if you give peoplethe tools necessary, they're
going to do something, and soone of our big things is that I

(27:45):
really wanted to make thosesustainable actions accessible.
We brought glass recycling toWaco in 2023.
And that was with a majorpartnership, and before you only
had one place to drop off glassrecycling, and now we have four
locations that people can dropoff at any point of any time of
the day, especially if you havea lot of wine bottles, like I do

(28:06):
Great way to hide your.
You do at home, I guess.
And so you know there's a justlike those little things like I.
Just we wanted to start withlike, okay, what does it look
like if we just made thingsaccessible?
And so we branched out fromthere.
We expanded our little cleanupsupplies and we worked with our
local library.
So there's little kits you cancheck out.
We have supply requests.

(28:27):
So people, if they want to geta group together but maybe it
doesn't align with some of ourexisting events.
They can do a supply request.
They can do a supply requestand you know, the whole point is
just to create that opportunityof like.
We want to do something, tobeing able to actually do it,
and our whole mantra is that youmake wake up beautiful just by
showing up.
That's what I have to do.
The bar is so low.

(28:47):
You just show up, you can behung over, you can be wide awake
, I don't know what you are, butyou just show up and I give you
exactly what you need and youjust have the best time.
And it is incredible to watchthe tenacity of our volunteers,
because our river can be prettygross and they will get in it
Like they will.
Literally they'll fight.

(29:08):
What we are understanding arealligators.
We have alligators in our riverso far in Naukong, where we
haven't been bitten, anyone thathasn't been bitten.
That is probably the day I'llleave my job.
Thank.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
God, we have good insurance.
We're all just gone.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah, I'm like every clean up I'm like, okay, no,
snakes.
That's really what I'm moreworried about is snakes.
I'm always like, watch forsnakes, watch for paraphernalia
of heroin needles, things likethat, because we're in a park
area, Apparently we havealligators Just don't bother
them, I guess.
And so it is absolutelyimpressive to see them.
They're just so dedicated togetting that piece of trash or

(29:45):
whatever it is and pulling itout.
And I mean, those are theheroes of our city, our story of
what we're doing, and Iabsolutely love being able to
watch this in real time.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
Our story of what we're doing and I just I
absolutely love being able towatch this in real time.
So that's very cool and I like,I think that message of
accessibility is so importantbecause I think people feel
sometimes like, for whateverreason, right, whatever
limitation whether it's aperceived one or an actual one
like, oh, I can't do anything tohelp, I can't be a part of this
.
But they want to help.
But I love the message of justshowing up is like 95% of the

(30:20):
battle for like so many thingsin life, just in general.
But if you come here, we'll getyou a way you can help, like
the way you can be involved, andI think so.
We have a community garden thatour department oversees.
One of my grad students I'm onhis committee runs it right now

(30:40):
and that's what we've just kindof seen.
It's like students or studentorganizations or community
organizations are like we wantto come help but we don't know
how we're like show up, we'llshow you right, like here's
weeds you can pull.
Sometimes they'll show up andthe weather's bad or, you know,
for whatever reason they can'tactually get down and pull weeds
.
Like hey, we need some signsrepainted.

(31:01):
You could clean this like tableoff, like there's always
something I think we can do andit gives us ownership of our
communities and it gives us kindof like uh, I don't know, it
lets us take the reins of ourlives and our and our space a
little bit better.
I think that's super cool.

Speaker 3 (31:18):
Yeah, and to that point you know we have been
communicating just how much theimpact of our volunteer hours
actually make on our city.
The national average is $33.49of economic impact per volunteer
hour.
So with our current volunteerload you know we work with over
a thousand volunteers every yearOur volunteer hours are insane

(31:41):
and it's at least usually closeto $200,000 of economic impact
just from our volunteers showingup.
The way you've been able tocommunicate that impact beyond
the fact that obviously we'repulling out litter or planting
trees or beautifying spacesbeing able to tell that economic
impact number is actuallywhat's been transformative for

(32:04):
them to hear and that's actuallyhelped us strengthen our
partnership with the city.
Because if you start to peel itback, you're going to be paying
someone for that anyway.
You're going to be paying acontractor.
You are going to be payingsomeone to eradicate graffiti.
You're going to be paying acontractor.
You are going to be payingsomeone to eradicate graffiti.
You're going to be payingsomeone to mow, you're going to
be paying.
Like that.
That number exists and I knowwhat that number is because I
see it every year whenever we'restarting to do all of our

(32:24):
reporting, and so for me, Ithink we're just a tiny cog in
the whole spiel of what it lookslike to maintain a city and
it's a lot.
But just with our volunteersshowing up they are able to
transform a lot and it's just.
It's so cool to see that inreal time.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah, it's amazing.
I think that's actually a goodsegue.
We'll take a quick break so Ican say whatever random stuff I
say to the listeners during thebreak, and then we'll come back
and I want to talk about acouple of things One about urban
conservation and maybe thepublic perceptions of urban
conservation, and then I want tokeep us with plenty of time to

(33:04):
talk about the upcoming GreenCommunities Conference that
we're all involved with and howexciting that is.
So we'll take a quick break,come right back and then we'll
talk some more.
Well, hey there, welcome to themid-roll.
I hope you're well.
Please tell your houseplants Isaid hi and that I've missed
them just so much.
Give them a little extra water,just for me.
Thanks for listening toPlantthropology and thanks for

(33:25):
being a part of this journey andfor hanging in there and all
the times that I just disappearfor six months.
I try not to do that.
If you'd like to support theshow, there's a lot of ways to
do that.
You can go to buymeacoffeecomslash plantthropology and for
the price of a coffee you canbuy me a coffee and I will buy
coffee and pay for hostings andthings like that, but mostly
coffee.
You can tell a friend aboutPlantthropology.

(33:46):
Know someone who likes plants?
Sure, you do.
Of course you do.
Don't be silly.
Everyone likes plants.
Tell them about Plantanthropology.
Word of mouth is still the verybest way to spread a podcast and
to let more people know aboutit.
You can share this on socialmedia.
You could do a lot of things.
You could go and rate andreview the show wherever you're
able.
That gives me the warm fuzzies.
I wear a size five star.

(34:07):
My birthday was over the summerand it's okay that you missed
it.
I didn't tell you about it, butmostly, just be involved.
Tell me what you like, tell mewhat you don't like.
Follow me on social media,either at Plantthropology or at
the Plant Prof.
You can shoot me an email atplantthropologypod at gmailcom
and make suggestions forupcoming episodes and just

(34:27):
whatever.
Just say hi.
I like it when people say hi.
So again, I hope you've beenenjoying this conversation so
much with Gary Kaki and CarolFerguson.
They have so much practicalinformation and so much
practical advice, and I thinkyou'll enjoy the second half as
well, and I feel like there'sthings I'm forgetting to tell
you about.
Yeah, come see us at the GreenCommunities Conference If you

(34:49):
are near Waco, texas, onSeptember 17th and 18th.
You can just show up and I willshake your hand and probably
give you a sticker.
I know you like stickers,you've got to like stickers, so
there'll be a link for how toget there in the show notes.
What are those called Shownotes?
Right, show notes?
It hasn't been that long sinceI've done this, maybe it has.

(35:09):
At any rate, click on the thingdown in the thing.
There'll be links for all thethings and come see us in Waco
and, aside from that, get readyfor the second half of this
episode.
Okay, bye now.
All right, we're back.
I want to talk about, I think,something that is sort of close
to my heart as an educator andas a community educator and

(35:31):
someone who works in thesustainability, climate
conservation space, and that'slike the public perception of
what y'all do, and I know thatthere's there's going to be a
wide range of responses we get,because I hear them too.
But you know, as you aretalking about, you know, some of
these issues we're trying todeal with are worse because of

(35:51):
climate change, as we talk aboutconserving water through
drought, if we, as we talk aboutrecycling and all of the green
things we try to do.
But in your community, in yourspecific jobs, what's that like?
What is the public conceptionof that and the public adoption

(36:11):
of that?
Do you feel like the ship isturning?
Are you still running upagainst roadblocks?
I'm just I'm curious to hearyour thoughts, cause I know what
I see, but I like to hear theperspective of other people that
do this for a living.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
So I I'll.
I'll jump in first, carol.
I know the initial perceptionthat people often have is so
you're the recycling guy.
I'll kind of well, you know,sort of let's talk about
recycling a little bit too, andyou know it's definitely good,
but there are also some issuesthere.
But it's a good conversationstarter and so I really love

(36:50):
these conversations because it'sreally a way to bring people
into sustainability, because itis such a broad field and so we
can talk about.
Yeah, you know, it's really.
You know, in higher ed it is allof the things I spoke about
earlier is, you know how weteach, how we research, how we
care for the campus, and thenit's these environmental issues.

(37:13):
But it's also the way that theseenvironmental issues are
rippling through our communities, and so I can talk about that
breadth a little bit.
But I try to listen more than Italk, because once you talk
about these issues that speak tothat thing inside of this

(37:34):
generation that does compel themto want to do good, their eyes
light up somewhere along the wayand you can find what interests
them or what their passion isand make sure that they
understand.
It is a broad field and thereare a lot of niches that need to
be filled within the field andto help them understand, you

(37:55):
know, what they might be able tocontribute towards a better
world, is a really fulfillingconversation.
Um, and just making sure thatyou know I'm listening and I'm
trying to extend an olive branchsuch that it is not, you know,
a defensive.
Here's what the field is andwhat we do and why it's valuable

(38:18):
, but it is more.
You know we aren't going to beable to accomplish what we want
to accomplish without having asmany people like you at the
table, kind of doing what theycan where they are, with what
they have, and helping them tounderstand what that could look
like.
Helping them to understand whatthat?

Speaker 3 (38:38):
could look like, yeah , sorry, I'm so sorry, vikram.
I'm like that's exactly it.
I feel like listening is halfthe battle, for sometimes, when
we're like, yeah, that's notexactly how that goes, but
interesting, interestingthoughts continue.
And I think you know, for me,even I'm I still feel like I'm
so new to this realm of whatwe're doing.
I have the privilege of beingable to learn from these experts

(39:01):
, like you guys, in every roomI'm in, when we're discussing
these things and just learningalong the way.
And there is this part of whatwe all are working on that the
interconnected landscape ofsustainability that has in our
lives is so much more than justrecycling or planting a tree.
It's hitting financial security, it's hitting health, it's

(39:24):
hitting access to education,access to health.
It's hitting so much and Idon't know what it looked like
in Lubbock, but Winter Stormreally hit Waco hard and I was
without power for an entire week.
I'm thankful that I didn't havea pipe burst, but there were so
many businesses that did.
Not only is that setting youback financially as a business

(39:45):
owner, but you're now having toreconstruct your entire business
completely from scratch, takingit down to the studs, and
that's not a cheap thing to do.
And so when people know, whenpeople get a little anxious
around the idea of climate andwhat that looks like with
sustainability, I'm like there'sso much more going on than
we're actually aware of.

(40:06):
And personally, beyond winterstorm area, having to deal with
constant allergy and asthmaissues that I didn't have as
much of growing up, you know,I've always had them.
But it's to the point now thatI'm on every possible solution
out there to maintain to live inTexas and I'm still having
issues, and so that's hittingother people harder too.

(40:27):
People who haven't had allergyissues are also having those
issues.
People without breathingproblems are having breathing
problems.
Air quality is really hittingthem hard, and so I think there
is so much more going on that weare starting to kind of step
back and be like, oh wow, that'sinteresting.
Why are we all of a suddenhaving this long heat spell or
this long cold spell?
Why is this different than whathas been normal in the past?

(40:49):
And so, yeah, I think as acommunity, locally, we're open
to these ideas and thesediscussions, and I think
statewide, we're really startingto hit the nail on the head of
actually trying to buildresilient community so we don't
have to go through those stormsper se in a difficult way.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Well, carol, too, to kind of build on what you're
saying with, you know the, thewinter storm, yuri, and these
just the.
You can walk outside and you canfeel.
You know summers are hotter andlonger than they were whenever
we were kids, and so it'sunfortunate that.

(41:28):
You know it takes us having itbeing so visibly apparent to
perhaps compel the change thatwe're working towards.
But I do think that mostfair-minded people can
acknowledge that the climate ischanging and we can have
discussions about okay, so whatdo we do about that?
And kind of to my previouspoint, that if we can have those

(41:54):
good faith conversations aboutwhat should we be doing to take
care of our neighbors as theclimate is changing, if we can
do our best to listen and honorthe perspective of others and
step back from our knee-jerkreaction to think that we have

(42:15):
the only perspective, when thereare many different perspectives
that we really do need toaccount for when we think about
what we are going to do torespond as a society to a
changing climate.
These are big, big questions,and so, at the root of it, I do
think that if we can try toassume the best in the people
that we're having theseconversations with, understand

(42:38):
that you know they have apersonal history that we should
honor and that we should try tofind that common ground, because
I do think that, like we'vesaid, with young generation, but
I think all people, you knowpeople want to be good, people
are good at heart, and if youcan assume the best and try to
find that common ground so that,yeah, we, we all want a livable

(42:59):
environment for our kids and weall want to to care for our
neighbor, and so let's set asidesome of those things that can
divide us and work towards whatwe, I think, can agree towards,
as you know, something that isgood and something that we
should prioritize as communities.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
I love that and I love the practical boots on the
ground solutions to some ofthese things, because you know
the this concept that allstruggles are connected, right
and and how at the heart of it.
The one of the big things aboutclimate change is that it is
going to become, and already isin a lot of ways, a human rights
and a human survival kind ofissue, right?
So when we talk about foodavailability and community food

(43:47):
systems and all of these things,they're all part of this big
picture.
And you know, I'm someone who Ithink sometimes and I love
hearing y'all talk and it'sreally encouraging and inspiring
to me because I spend way toomuch time on the Internet, right
, I do a lot of like onlinescience, communication and like
I end up in these spaces whereeverything is so negative and

(44:08):
like everyone's fighting all thetime and everyone's mad and
it's like this is the worst andyou're the worst if you think
this and blah, blah, blah inevery direction.
Right, it's so encouraging tosee and hear the stories of no,
the community showed up and wecleaned up a neighborhood with
not really an ulterior agenda,that this is our community and

(44:29):
we needed to clean up theneighborhood, right, or hearing
students that said, gosh, we'regenerating a lot of waste, maybe
we could help someone throughall these pieces of furniture
and toiletries and whatever itelse is.
I think those are the storiesthat carry us so much farther

(44:49):
and that need to be told more.
I think that's really cool,really, really cool stuff.
And that actually leads us intothis conference that's coming
up, because you know, this is mysecond year being involved and
I was so excited to be asked tobe involved.
I have loved it, even thoughI'm probably not a great team
member, because I'm so all overthe place all the time.
The Green CommunitiesConference that's coming up tell

(45:09):
us about where that started,like what it is, what we're
trying to do, but I think thatit is in so many ways, a cool
educational attempt to addressall that stuff we were just
talking about, to give peoplepractical ways to do it.
But I want to hear more aboutwhere it started and kind of
where we are now.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
Yeah, so this actually began in 2019, a woman
named Michaela McCown who, gary,actually, I believe her dad was
your professor.
Is that correct?
There was some connection there.
I can't remember.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
I knew her from a while back.
If I knew her dad, thenunfortunately I didn't realize
it.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
Okay, I couldn't remember.
There might've been some sortof connection there, but she is
a professor at McLennanCommunity College, our local
community college, and in 2019,she put on a full day
sustainability type of summit.
All come from differentbackgrounds, whether they have

(46:12):
worked in water, at the city,baylor or the zoo, for instance.
A bunch of people came togetherand created the Waco
Sustainability Network and itwas quite an informal group of
people that just shared apassion around what could we do?
So, similarly to these studentswho are like around what could
we do?
So similarly to these studentswho are like we can do something

(46:32):
.
We know we can do something,but what is it?
And some folks would just keptbringing up Michaela's work in
2019.
And we're like man.
That would be just so great ifwe could just try to engage our
local leaders, whether it's cityof Waco leaders or educators or
just people in the communityworking.
Let's start there and try toengage them and build this
baseline conversation aroundsustainability that we're all

(46:55):
coming in at the same level andgrowing it from there, so that
way we can all have the samelevel playing field of this.
And I'm sitting in the room andI'm still fairly new in my role
and I'm looking around and I'mlike, all right, these are the
pros in the industry on thecontent.
They're not the pros in theindustry on events, and I
actually had some similar workin this at a previous job.

(47:17):
I worked in an entrepreneurial,startup type of industry and
did a lot of like startup grind,startup week, if you are
familiar with those types ofthings and so I've already had
put these events together and Iwas like, well, this is easy, I
already know what to do.
This would be a great way forme to learn all the content of
what's related to my field,while flexing a skill I already

(47:39):
have.
And so, of course, Ivolunteered myself to help put
this on together, not knowingI'd be doing it four years later
still, and it has grown so muchsince that 2022 conference, and
that was just an absolutelymost incredible day.
We met at the Baylor Research,innovation and Collaborative.
We had a great group of peopleputting on the conference

(48:01):
together, wonderful speakers and, honestly, after that, we all
were just looking at each otherlike we have to do this again,
and so every year, it's beenroughly a nice mix of some of
the same people, some new people.
Obviously, vikram, you've beeninvolved in this year and it's
just really cool to see how it'sgrown from like, okay, let's
start small, let's focus on ourown community.
Okay, let's start a littlebigger, let's focus on the area,

(48:24):
let's focus on Central Texas.
All right, now we're focusingon all of Texas, and so that has
been part of not only theplanning aspect but also the
audience aspect, and so we arefour years strong.
We have hovered around anywherefrom 300 or 350 attendees each
year.
Most of our attendees actuallycome from academia, government

(48:46):
positions, nonprofits, and wealso have what we call the
concerned citizen or resident,or you know, just folks who are
just interested in learning more, and then those who are also
educators, but also people whoyou know are working in
industries that maybe you don'tthink of relate to it.
So, like construction, there'sa lot of overlap, and you know
we're at this point that all ofour jobs are actually relating

(49:09):
to sustainability in some aspect.
You might be an engineer, butyour job actually has a lot of
overlap with sustainability.
You might be an educator yourjob has a lot of overlap with
sustainability, and so we're, asa society, moving more into
that direction, and so I thinkthat's what's so great about
this conference is that youdon't have to be a PhD in.
I don't know what your PhD isand I'm sorry.

(49:30):
But let's say something aboutplants?
I don't know.
You know you don't have to havea PhD to have this conversation
.
You could just be someone likeme who has no prior experience,
but maybe it wants to learn more.
I think that's what's sowonderful.
And so you know, we do havethose higher education
components.
We do have those.
Let's go ahead and get you yourcontinuing education components

(49:50):
.
There's really a place foreveryone at this conference and
it's just been really incredibleseeing it be put together year
after year, and I'm just the onelike behind the scenes just
putting all the little tinystructures together.
I'm not even the one formingthe like what I like to call the
meat and potatoes or, in thisinstance, if we're sustainable,
you know the eggplant and Idon't know noodles.

(50:11):
I'm like what would feel like avegan option.
I'm just joking.
We have so much breadth behindthis and it's just so cool again
just to sit back and watch youguys put together these
incredible presenters who arecoming with amazing backgrounds,
just to come share what theyknow and what they've studied,
or how we can transform ourcities to be more resilient and

(50:34):
grow them for the benefit ofeveryone.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
It's very cool.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
I know it's been a blessing too.
So, as I joined Baylor about ayear and a half ago, to be able
to plug in with people likeCarol that you know are able to
organize these amazing eventsand bring together the
practitioners from across thecommunity, and to have that
resource for Baylor, to you know, engage students on these

(51:02):
topics, has been incredible.
To me, this conferenceexemplifies what should be
happening and what I'd love tosee happening in communities all
over, where you know, when wetalk about sustainability, we're
often talking about globalchallenges like climate change
and biodiversity loss and waterquality and food security, but

(51:22):
the reality is is that, althoughthese are global issues, they
manifest very differently fromcommunity to community.
Climate change in Waco is goingto look very different than
climate change in Miami, and sowe need to bring together people
that what the issues are, whatthe resources are to address

(51:44):
these issues locally, and toconvene government, nonprofit,
education and industry so thatwe can have clear-eyed
conversations about what shouldwe be doing to address these
specific issues that areaffecting our community, and the
Green Communities Conference, Ithink, is an exemplar for what

(52:06):
I think we should be doing moreof exemplar for what I think we
should be doing more of.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Very cool and you know, for anyone that's
interested in coming, if you'rein I mean, you know the Waco
area or if you care to travel,to come see us a couple of great
days of stuff tours on thefirst day, some really
interesting panels, you know,and if you're interested in I'm
looking at the schedule rightnow and there's a great panel on
the first day about dealingwith climate anxiety.

(52:35):
You know, if you're in thisspace and you're like, oh my God
, what's happening?
Like there's some reallyinteresting folks that are going
to talk about okay, how do wedeal with that?
How do we practically deal withthat?
You get to see all kinds ofcool community stuff throughout
Waco waste streams, zoos,there's a kayak tour that's so
cool, like so many cool things.
And then a great day ofeducation on the second day Lots

(52:57):
of speakers, lots of tracks.
You can choose lots to do and Ithink it's going to be a lot of
fun.
I'm really looking forward toit.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
Yeah, it's going to be a great year and I'm really
excited.
And I would like to point outthat we do have.
You know, even if you aren'tintending to come to the entire
conference, if you want to justdabble, we do have a happy hour
at Balcones Distilling, which isactually one of our partners
who they themselves have beenworking really hard at
sustainable actions, and they'llhave a little bit of a touch

(53:26):
point to kind of share moreabout their sustainability at
the distillery, which fun fact Iactually worked there back in
the day helped open the front ofhouse and some of the tours
that they they still offer, andmost people don't know this, but
whenever they do the mash,which is basically the oatmeal
of creating the whiskey, theyactually give that back to local
farmers to feed their cattle,and so it is exactly that, it's

(53:48):
just oatmeal.
There's probably hardly anyfermentation in there for them
to get a little drunk off of,and if they do, then great, good
for that cow.
So it's like those littlethings of just kind of hearing
how our local businesses areactually making some sustainable
actions themselves to helpsupport other community partners
and, again, economicdevelopment, economic impact.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Yeah, that's very cool.
Development economic impactyeah, that's, that's very cool.
And so this for everyonelistening is Wednesday September
17th and Thursday September18th, so if you'd like to join
us you said you can just walk upright, there's like walk-up
attendance and stuff.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
We will have walk-up registration, but if you want to
learn more,keepwakeupbeautifulorg.
Slash green communities.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Very cool, awesome Again.
I'm really looking forward toit.
As we record this, I still haveto fill out all my travel stuff
, so I didn't do that too muchby our front office.
I think Carol and I messagedabout this like last week and
then I didn't do it.
I stay in trouble.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
It's okay, it's okay, they still have you there, so
that's a good sign.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
I don't know.
Future of sustainability, ofconservation, of all the things
we do.
Where do you see us going, likein your specific?

(55:16):
You know, I know it's hard totalk at a global scale because
it's it's hard to know, there'sso many moving pieces.
But in what you do, where doyou see us headed in the next
few years in terms ofconservation and sustainability?

Speaker 2 (55:38):
and sustainability.
I continue to be optimistic.
I think that sustainability is,it needs to speak more to the
human component.
I was drawn to the fieldbecause of my passion for the
environment, but what I'velearned through my
community-based work is thatit's about people.
At the end of the day, it'sabout the harm that communities

(56:00):
suffer whenever the environmentis harmed.
It's about the fact thatvulnerable communities will bear
the brunt of that suffering,and it is about working with
communities so that weunderstand what we can do to
have a better future.
And so the more that we areable to speak about

(56:21):
sustainability in human terms, Ithink, the more that people are
able to see themselves in thatwork, and I think that most
people are good people, and ifwe are able to talk about
environmentalism as a way tolove your neighbor, then I think
that everybody can get on boardwith being an environmentalist
Very cool.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
Yeah, and I completely agree with Gary.
And on top of that, even beforeI got into this, it sounds like
I was an alcoholic in my pastcareer, but I also worked at a
wine shop.
I worked for a wine importer.
I was in the booze industry forquite a while, so it makes
sense.
I'm a nonprofit now, I guess,but I worked for a wine importer
and I remember you know hesourced a lot of his wines were
actually biodynamically grown,they were sustainably grown,

(57:04):
they're all natural.
There's no any sort ofintervention when it comes to
growing the wine, fermenting thewine, making the wine, bottling
the wine, and so it's kind ofthis really cool concept.
And it's grown.
If you're in the food andbeverage industry, it's grown a
lot, especially in Texas,houston and Austin, especially
Dallas is a little bit more toonow.
But this was back in, I want tosay, 2015, 2016,.

(57:25):
We had a vintage from France inthe Loire Valley that their
summer it was really rainy andthen they got pegged by a lot of
hail just randomly throughout,and so it killed a lot of the
vines and then they weren't ableto produce as many bottles of
wine.
And when you start to peel backagain, looking at this from a
bigger picture, you're like, ohwow, this is obviously hitting

(57:46):
the human aspect, like Gary'stouching on, but it's also
hitting on the business aspectand I think, as we continue to
go forward, we're really goingto have no option other than to
face it head on that this isimpacting us at a global scale,
not just in Texas, but it'smaking us see it as a economic
issue Again.
It doesn't not touch anything,it touches everything, and so

(58:09):
there's going to be no otheroption but to realize, oh wow,
this is so much more than we'rehaving our vulnerable
communities suffer the most.
It is also hitting us from aneconomic impact perspective, and
so it's interesting to see this, as this was years ago before I
really started to understandthis as a professional in my
space now, just someone whohappened to work in the industry

(58:32):
and really seeing how much thatactually made a big difference
with these business owners, notonly the importer here in the
United States, but also thegrowers in those regions.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Yeah, that's.
I mean that's reallyinteresting.
That's really, I think, when itstarts hitting people's
pocketbooks more like and thebottom line, so I mean that's
you know, and from insurancecompanies to everything else,
like, we're starting to see moreand more of that.
But yeah, that's really.
I think both of those are greatmessages.
I love the message that peopleare basically good, and I think

(59:04):
it's.
It's super easy to villainizepeople.
We're trying our best.
We're all doing this for thefirst time, right?
Nobody really knows whatthey're doing.
I'll just making it up as we go, and so I think giving like
extending grace, but holdingyour convictions at the same
time is really important.
I think that's super cool.
So the last question I ask allof my guests is if you could

(59:24):
leave, like, if the peoplelistening to this hour long
episode take one thing with them.
That could be about being abetter like member of your
community.
It could be your favorite wayto make green tea If your
allergies are trying to kill you, like, like, whatever it is,
like what?
What would you like to leavepeople with?

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Oh man.
Well, I think we've.
We've come to agreement.
You know, people are generallygood, so we can assume the best.
Maybe stay out of the commentsections so that you don't
undercut that.
Um, and then I guess the themessage that I would say is get
involved, don't be, don't beintimidated, don't think that
you don't have a voice, Don'tthink that you don't have

(01:00:05):
something to offer.
You can show up at Carol'sdoorstep at Keep Lake
O'Beautiful and she'll hand youa litter cleanup kit and you can
go make a difference in yourcommunity.
It's not going to be, you know,one brilliant solution that
will solve all of our challengesfor sustainability.

(01:00:27):
It's a bunch of people that dowhat they can, where they are,
with what they have.

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
Yeah, and to that point, you know, I have kind of
personally done some of my ownaspects, really started to grow
into composting, really startingto almost do my own personal
waste audit to see, okay, doesthis even make a difference, you
know, and knowing how much Ican fill up my trash can,
because I am, unfortunately I'mquite waste producing despite

(01:00:55):
Don't worry, they're justcoffees I'm only double fisting
coffees.
At this moment of the day it'sonly 12.
I have been kind of assessinglike, okay, obviously I have a
tendency to do this, but I alsodon't keep paper plates in my
house.
You know it is annoying to haveto wash every dish, but I also
just find that it's important todo it that way.
And with my own personal wasteaudit I have found that it

(01:01:17):
actually has made a hugedifference, not only by
diverting recycling, but alsodiverting what I could
compost-wise, and from that Ihave been able to transform my
garden in a whole new way that Ididn't even imagine was
possible.
And there is nothing likefinding what we all know is that
black gold of our compost, justturning it over and being like,

(01:01:37):
oh my God, there it is, andjust getting your hands in it.
Not only is it actuallypsychologically healing, like
your skin absorbs thesebeautiful microbes to help with
depression.
You get in a depression just bysticking your hands in the dirt
, which is incredible.
But all the way toincorporating just native plants
, drought-tolerant plants,pollinator plants like Vikram

(01:01:57):
you've seen me go over with my.
Now I'm on my third round ofblack swallowtails.
I lay eggs on my fennel, like Ihave purposely grown fennel
just to see this whole processhappen.
And these are just my littlepockets of joy.
And I think, as you all haveprobably highlighted, like we
can get lost in the negativityin the comment section, but we
also can find pockets of joywith these little actions and it

(01:02:19):
doesn't take much to changelittle behaviors and little
habits and it actually is prettytransformative.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
It's awesome Both, both really great pieces of
advice.
Well y'all, thank you so muchfor your time.
I really appreciate yourknowledge and your wisdom and
your experience.
You know I just again that wasvery encouraging for me as
someone who really values theon-the-ground sort of aspect of
this conservation work that wedo.

(01:02:45):
So thank you for what you do,thank you for being a part of it
, and for coming on and beingpart of the show.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
Where can we find you and where can we find more info
about the Green CommunitiesConference?
Yeah, so you can find all theinformation at
keepwakeabeautifulorg slashgreen communities and you can
find me hopefully not always atmy office, hopefully outside and
you know, enjoying nature.
So yeah, Hopefully outside andyou know, enjoying nature.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
So yeah, gary, do you want to be found on the
internet, or would you prefer?

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
Oh, is that what you meant?
Sorry, gary, do you want?

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
No, I actually mean it.
I don't do the social media.
If you want to find me, comesay hello, I'm on Baylor's
campus.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Okay, Well, y'all thanks again.
That was a lot of fun and Iguess I'll see you in a couple
of weeks at the GreenCommunities Conference.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
Y'all.
I so much love the concept ofjust doing what you can with
what you have, whether that isplanting plants for black
swallowtails or making sure youcompost all of your coffee cups.
I'm sitting at my desk in myoffice and looking at three
paper coffee cups that I candefinitely compost.
Whatever it is, do what you canFind people in your community
to plug in with and find ways tohelp.

(01:04:04):
We are all part of the solutionand I think we all want what's
best for our families, for ourcommunities and for each other.
So thanks again so much to Garyand Carol for being a part of
Play Anthropology and for justdoing what they do and fighting
the good fight in their owncommunities.
Thanks to you for listening.
You know that I do this for youand you know that how much it

(01:04:26):
means to me that you listen andyou follow along and that you
are a part of this.
You know how much I love all ofy'all for being a part of
Flanthropology and just being apart of my life.
Flanthropology is recorded,written, produced, hosted
whatever else I do by me, yourstruly, vikram Baliga.
Our intro and outro music is bythe award-winning composer,

(01:04:48):
nick Scout, who you shoulddefinitely look up, and the
mid-roll music is called Yarrowby my buddy, rui, and you should
go listen to his cool dad jazz.
Thanks for listening, thanksfor being a part of it.
Keep being kind, keep beingsafe.
If you have not been kind toone another, maybe give that a
shot.
It's a great way to buildcommunity.

(01:05:09):
You're the best.
Keep being cool.
Plant people and I will talk toyou next time.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Thank you.