September 26, 2025 • 58 mins
Gabrielle Cerberville, known as the Chaotic Forager, returns to discuss her new book "Gathered on Foraging, Feasting, and the Seasonal Life" and shares insights on building relationships with wild spaces beyond mere resource collection.
• Moved to Virginia at the base of Shenandoah National Park to pursue a PhD in Composition and Computer Technologies
• Uses biodata from fungi and plants to create music as a form of science communication
• Created a community-based approach to foraging through workshops and classes in her converted basement classroom
• Wrote "Gathered" as a combination of memoir, cookbook, and field guide to share both technical knowledge and the deeper meaning of foraging
• Collaborated with experts including culinary specialists, plant and mushroom identifiers, and indigenous food practitioners to ensure accuracy
• Challenges individualistic "self-sufficiency" narratives in foraging communities, emphasizing that these skills developed in community contexts
• Recommends beginning foragers start by finding local clubs and experienced guides rather than relying solely on books
• Suggests approaching foraging with curiosity rather than conquest, focusing on building relationships with plants before harvesting
• Emphasizes observation and spending time with individual species to develop deeper understanding and connection
Pre-order "Gathered on Foraging, Feasting, and the Seasonal Life" now at your local indie bookstore or wherever books are sold. You can find Gabrielle as Chaotic Forager across all social media platforms and at chaoticforager.com for workshop information.
Also, be sure to check out the Blue Life Podcast! You can support them by donating to their funding campaign at givebutter.com/BlueLife, following them on social media, and lis
As always, thanks so much for listening! Subscribe, rate, and review Planthropology on your favorite podcast app. It helps the show keep growing and reaching more people! As a bonus, if you review Planthropology on Apple Podcasts or Podchaser and send me a screenshot of it, I'll send you an awesome sticker pack!
Planthropology is written, hosted, and produced by Vikram Baliga. Our theme song is "If You Want to Love Me, Babe, by the talented and award-winning composer, Nick Scout. Midroll tunes are by Rooey.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
What is up, plant people?
It's time once more for thePlanthropology Podcast, the show
where we dive into the lives andcareers of some very cool plant
people to figure out why they dowhat they do and what keeps them
coming back for more.
I'm Vic Rom Beliga, your hostand your humble guide in this
journey through the sciences,and as always, my dear friends,
I am so gosh darn excited to bewith you today.
Hey y'all, I have a returningguest today, and she's been a
(00:23):
crowd favorite, and I mean oneof my favorites for a very long
time.
And she has a brand new bookcoming out that I wanted her to
have the opportunity to tell youall about.
Depending on where you'relistening to this, it may be
brand new, it may beforthcoming, it may have been
out for the immeasurable past,assuming that this is being
listened to, you know, down theroad, and uh, you know, we've
(00:45):
figured things out as a species,but I digress.
My guest for today is thechaotic forager herself,
Gabrielle Serberville.
We've been friends for a fewyears.
We were mutuals on TikTok andInstagram and some different
places, and we've just sort ofkept up since the first time she
was on the show, like four yearsago.
And it just, it's so much fungetting to watch her content.
She is so excited about naturalspaces and wild foods and the
(01:07):
preservation of both of those,that she is just the perfect
spokesperson for our planet.
And she's written a new bookcalled Gathered on Foraging,
Feasting, and the Seasonal Life,which comes out in October of
2025.
And there's plenty moreinformation this episode about
that.
But it's all about herexperiences in nature and with
gathering and foraging andliving off of the things that
(01:29):
the planet provides for us.
And there's great memoirs inhere, recollections of her time
in nature and learning to forageand learning about the wild
spaces around her, but also likegreat recipes and tips and
tricks.
Like if you're going outforaging, maybe you wear pants,
stuff like that.
It's really great stuff.
So you're gonna enjoy thisepisode.
I'm gonna tell you right now,you need to go pre-order her
(01:52):
book.
Do it right now.
Okay?
Right now.
Do it now.
There's a link in the thing.
Go to the link in the thing andorder the book, and then come
back and listen to all the goodstuff she's going to tell you
about it.
So I can't wait for you to hearthis.
It was such a genuine, genuinepleasure to get uh record with
Gabrielle again.
So pull up a chair, find a bowlof wild mushrooms, but very
(02:14):
carefully so you don't die, andget ready for episode 123 of the
Planthropology Podcast with thechaotic forager Gabrielle
Serverville.
SPEAKER_02 (02:52):
I'm good.
I'm so excited to be here.
It's been a long time.
SPEAKER_01 (02:57):
Yeah, we were just talking off like off recording
before we started that you knowyou've been on the show before,
and that was that episode.
I'm actually gonna look.
I'm gonna pull up the datebecause it shocked me, actually.
It was episode 61, and that wasOctober 12th, 2021.
SPEAKER_02 (03:14):
That's insane.
So, like right at straight uppandemic times, like wow.
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
It was that's and like in my mind, I was like, oh,
it's just been a year or two,like it hasn't been that long,
but like time has blown by.
SPEAKER_02 (03:28):
It really has.
SPEAKER_01 (03:30):
So, I guess to that end, what have you been up to
for the past four years?
I feel like you've done a lot inthe last four years.
SPEAKER_02 (03:37):
I've been busy, that's for sure.
Yeah.
So I I finished my master's, Istarted my PhD at the University
of Virginia.
So I moved.
I I live out in Virginia now, uhright at the bottom of
Shenandoah National Park, whichhas been really nice.
And I have been writing a book.
I've been trying to figure outwhat I want to be when I grow
(04:03):
up.
SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
That's uh I've decided, I think, the older I
get.
That's sort of like a lifelongendeavor.
The uh figuring out what youwant to do.
Big time.
Because like I still don'treally know.
I'm you know, I'm doing thething, it's fine, but like
there's days that I'm like, isthis the thing?
Is this the thing I do?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (04:24):
Totally.
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
But so well, you talked about living right at the
edge of a national park.
Is that the best thing ever?
SPEAKER_02 (04:32):
It's kind of the best thing ever.
I grew up on the East Coast, sobeing back on the East Coast,
it's I love the Midwest, but Ialways missed the mountains.
So now I live where there aremountains again, and things like
elevation suddenly start tomatter with foraging.
Cause like if I miss a season, Ican just keep on going up and
(04:53):
then I can catch it again.
So it's it's kind of it's kindof nice to have options like
that now.
SPEAKER_01 (05:01):
You know what's funny is that literally never
occurred to me that like you canlike, oh, it's too hot down
here, I'll just go up there.
SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
Uh really nice in the summerwhen it's super humid.
I can just be like, you knowwhere, you know, where it's 10
degrees cooler up there.
SPEAKER_01 (05:19):
That's pretty awesome.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour PhD program, because that's
you know another bigundertaking.
It feels like you always have acouple of really big, cool
projects going, but what are youworking on?
SPEAKER_02 (05:30):
I I feel like I am an academic masochist because I
keep doing this to myself and Idon't know why.
But like I am in a musicprogram.
So it is the composition andcomputer technologies program at
UVA.
Uh, we're a pretty smallprogram, uh, just a bunch of
weirdos who use computers tomake noise and uh a lot of
(05:52):
really interesting people whoare making really cool things.
But I've been focusing more onbiodata and on trying to do
science communication with thisart bent.
So using art to make sciencecommunication more effective,
essentially.
SPEAKER_01 (06:10):
That's really interesting.
And honestly, in my opinion,that's a super important field.
I was talking my my students andI were talking about this a
little bit yesterday that uhwhen we look back at like what
is you know, a historicalrecord.
We were talking about sort ofthe uh origins of horticulture
and what we do in plant science,and looking back at old drawings
(06:31):
and paintings and descriptionsof foods and uh everything tells
us so much about like ourscientific history, our natural
history.
And and that's uh an importantpiece of this teaching puzzle.
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
I find that with all respect toscientists and artists alike,
artists often when they try todo SICOM, they don't quite know
how to read the data that isthere.
And so then that leads you downpaths where you might reach
(07:03):
incorrect conclusions.
Uh and then scientists, even ifthey understand what they're
doing really well, sometimeswhen scientists use art, it ends
up coming off as really corny.
So I'm trying to trying tobridge the gap and do a bit of
both while recognizing that I ama master of neither field.
(07:27):
Um I I am doomed to be a jack ofall trades for the rest of my
life.
But it's been really fun to findnew ways to give people
experiences that make them feela little bit more responsible
for and a little bit moreconnected to the world around
them.
SPEAKER_01 (07:46):
That was so you've studied this a little bit or
you've worked in this in thepast, right?
So if I remember correctly, andagain, it's been a few years,
but your master's project, youwere doing like biofeedback and
translating that into music fromuh mushrooms, is that correct?
SPEAKER_02 (07:59):
Yeah, yep, I'm still doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (08:01):
Yeah.
Okay.
Which is so mushrooms are orfungi, I should say, are like
wild enough in my mind that I'mlike the thought of like
translating I like it's a littlescary to know what they think.
I don't know.
And I know that's not exactlywhat's happening, but it feels
that way, just a little bit.
SPEAKER_02 (08:23):
Yeah, it is interesting because we're kind
of I think it with biodata,there's always this, there's
always this dance, right?
Because you can kind of make thedata say anything you want it
to.
You're sort of choosing thevoice, but you're also trying to
listen at the same time.
So sometimes I get more usefulinformation out of like a
(08:45):
sonogram, or I get more usefulinformation out of like an Excel
spreadsheet than I do fromsomething that has a lot of
pre-recorded sound samples forthe live data to play.
So it's it the important thing,I think, is that everything is
(09:09):
always communicating.
Like all behavior iscommunication.
Your plant tells you when itneeds water by wilting, you
know, uh the earth tells youthat it needs water by burning.
We have all of these cues thatwe've in many cases forgotten
how to read.
And working with biodata givesyou the opportunity to try to
(09:35):
figure out what's going on.
SPEAKER_01 (09:38):
Hmm.
That's yeah, really interesting,really fascinating stuff.
Sort of in the same vein,talking about science
communication and the way we didit, we do it.
You have I was looking at, youknow, I stalk people just a
little bit, like lightlyfriendly.
SPEAKER_02 (09:52):
Well, yeah.
What are friends for?
SPEAKER_01 (09:55):
Right.
Just some light to moderatestalking, just a little bit.
Your like presence online has, Ifeel like, blown up over the
past several years.
And you know, you havesomething, what, like one and a
half million, two millionfollowers across platforms.
And that that number in mybrain, like that's not that's a
weird number to think about.
Is it that way for you?
SPEAKER_02 (10:16):
I think that there's something kind of misleading
about numbers on social media,because just because you have a
million followers doesn't mean amillion people are seeing what
you make.
And I've definitely found thatsince I have shifted my focus
more towards media that is uhlonger lived than social media,
(10:37):
I don't have quite the same pullto make the kinds of videos that
I used to.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
That's interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (10:48):
It feels a little bit more like maintenance rather
than grinding.
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
That's that I think that's such a good way to put
it, actually.
That you just kind of like youkeep up with it, you make the
stuff, but I agree, you know, assomeone who's done long form
media like podcasts and donesome writing, like it is a
totally different animal.
Like the ethos behind it, theway you approach it, so
different.
SPEAKER_02 (11:10):
It is.
Yeah, it definitely is.
I think there's a realdifference between I think when
you're starting out, you're justtrying to get seen.
You're just trying to like getfollowers and you know, trying
to make things that are gonnamake people laugh or gonna make
people think.
Uh, and then as you kind offigure out what you're doing, uh
it it kind of whittles it down alittle bit.
(11:32):
I think I've no I've certainlynoticed like a lot of the people
that I followed at the beginningof the pandemic either aren't
making content anymore, aremaking totally different content
that is more thoughtful, maybe alittle bit more spaced out, or I
guess some of them are stillmaking the content, but not not
in the not in that way.
(11:53):
Like it's more focused, it'smore pointed.
I find that I have a higher barfor the things that I'm actually
willing to post, which is maybenot great content strategy, but
I think is important to mebecause of the kind of thing I'm
I'm trying to accomplish, whichis really solid, trustworthy,
(12:15):
well-thought out education.
SPEAKER_01 (12:19):
That's and that's such a I think an important
point that I think people onboth sides of the screen, so to
speak, or both both sides of themicrophone need to hear is that
like there's this pressure andthere's this idea that you just
oh, like for some reason myalgorithm got so screwed up, and
like every other video now issome like social media coach
(12:40):
that's like, you gotta postevery time you open the app, you
gotta do this and that.
And I'm just like, I for one,that would feel so inauthentic
for what I want to do.
But two, like, who has the timeor brain space for that?
It ain't me.
SPEAKER_02 (12:54):
Not me either.
I can't.
I you have to think of it morelike a marathon than a sprint,
because otherwise you will burnout and you will you will avoid
making content.
And that has happened to me manytimes.
Um, I go at it too hard, I gettoo focused, I get overwhelmed,
and then I can't do anything.
I'm just frozen.
And there'll be like four-monthstretches where I don't post
(13:16):
anything at all.
And that's just because like I'mout, I'm out of juice, ran out
of gas.
I'm gonna sit here until someonecomes along with a gas can
because I can't do it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:29):
That's I found that with the show too, with this
podcast, too.
Because I've taken over theyears a couple of long breaks
that was like, I'm gonna take amonth off.
And then six months later, I'mlike, oh crap, I should record
an episode, you know, like but Ithink there's a line somewhere
where we do things because welove them and we do things
because we care about education,about our the material we're
(13:49):
covering, all that.
And then when it just becomeslike, again, like you said, the
grind, it becomes a thing youhave to do, and it sort of ruins
it.
Uh there's all kinds of reasonsto do things, but I think I'm
like you in a lot of ways that Iwould rather do something I
enjoy that I find value andfulfillment in.
SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
Yeah.
I know that personally I'vetried to I I always try to give
myself a lot of options.
So I try not to put all of myeggs in one basket.
You know, I yes, I'll makecontent and I'll also write a
book and I'll also do thisprogram that has a stipend.
And I'll also have, you know,these other side projects and
(14:25):
things that I'm working on in myhouse or or whatever to keep
that all keep me reallyoccupied, but that give me room
to shift between choices so thatI don't feel like I wake up in
the morning and I feel like I'vewasted a day if I don't make a
video.
SPEAKER_01 (14:41):
Yeah.
That's I think that's a reallysmart and probably healthy way
to approach that.
Because it, you know, again, theburnout, just the pressure.
I think it gets to people.
And it's obvious sometimes whenit starts to, and you see shifts
in their tone and the way theyapproach things, and it's like,
oh, you maybe should take a stepback.
Like, but give it a minute.
SPEAKER_02 (15:02):
Yeah.
And I think sometimes we feelentitled to people's attention
when we've kind of lost the plota little bit.
And that's definitely happenedto me before, where I am like
upset that people aren'twatching my content.
But then I look at it and thenI'm like, well, this isn't good.
No wonder nobody's watching thisbecause it sucks.
Because I'm burnt out and that'scoming through in what I'm
(15:26):
trying to make.
And so then at that point I go,okay, I have to like, I have to
like go visit my folks.
I have to like go outsidewithout a camera.
I have to go lay in the grassand read some Mary Oliver and
cry in a hammock for a while andbe a person.
SPEAKER_01 (15:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:43):
Or just like do something else, like focus on my
garden, you know, do some recipedevelopment, like things that I
don't have to film.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
Yeah, that's cool.
Well, so one nice thing aboutthis content creation, social
media, whatever, is it leads tocool opportunities.
And we'll talk about the book alot more in just a second, but
I've seen over the years thatyou've been teaching workshops
and getting to meet people andgo forage in a group.
Can you talk about that a littlebit, what that experience is
like?
SPEAKER_02 (16:10):
Yeah, I think that I was always really hesitant to do
that because I'd had a couple ofexperiences back when I lived in
Michigan where like people foundout where I lived and were weird
about it, or I people would, youknow, get access to my
information because of a walkthat I led and then kind of
abuse that.
But out here in Virginia, Idecided, you know, I would
(16:34):
really like to have more controlover my time.
I found that I was traveling toall of these different festivals
and doing all of this differentstuff and working my ass off
every summer and not reallyhaving very much to show for it
because so much of my resourceswere getting tied up in travel
or in lodging or um it reallyjust like having time that I
(16:59):
couldn't be here working on myown things.
So I said, you know, I think Ineed to cut back on some of
these external things, some ofthese festivals, um, some of the
stuff that really sucks a lot ofmy energy, where I have to be
chaotic forager all the time foreveryone, and instead like
choose when I'm going to bechaotic forager and I'm going to
(17:19):
be like your guide in the woods.
Uh and so I've started doingmore with you know, leading my
own forays.
I transformed my basement into aclassroom.
So now I have like a littlekitchenette and a whole bunch of
crazy equipment down there.
And uh I'm planning on doingmore, doing more this fall with
(17:42):
like preservation andfermentation and all kinds of
different things.
I've got a vinegar making classthat I'm really excited about.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:52):
That's really cool.
And I like the thought offinding ways to take that
control back, right?
And again, when you'repassionate about something,
being able to like engage withit in a way that that feels good
to you is so important.
And that's really cool.
And but it looks like you have alot of fun doing it.
And that's from the outside as afriend, is fun to see.
(18:13):
It's really cool to see.
SPEAKER_02 (18:14):
I do have a lot of fun doing it, and I feel a lot
more relaxed because I'm makingthe schedule.
So I know that hey, thisSaturday, three weekends from
now, I'm gonna go out in thewoods with people and we're
gonna have fun and I'm gonnahave snacks for them, and we're
just gonna hang out and we'regonna learn things together.
Uh, and I really enjoy thattime.
(18:37):
And I enjoy meeting these peoplewho are at like all different
levels of foraging ability andknowledge.
And we we have kids sometimes.
So I'm gonna be teaching at aforest school this October for a
day, doing kids' forays, whichis always really fun because
kids find cool things, they'relow to the ground, so they find
(18:59):
the really interestingmushrooms.
SPEAKER_01 (19:00):
That's super cool, yeah.
And yeah, and so my son is ninenow, which is weird to think
about.
But though you were just talkingabout of like a kid's
perspective of nature and of thethings, it's so different.
And I don't know where we losethat along the way.
Like, I don't know when thathappens, but like we'll be
(19:22):
outside or like taking pictures.
He likes photography and stuff,and he'll find the smallest
little thing that I would justhave stepped over, walked past,
and like, I don't know, there'ssomething about that like speaks
to me as a nature lover, as aneducator of like finding ways to
hold on to that wonder is so soimportant.
SPEAKER_02 (19:42):
Yeah, I think it's a combination of things.
I I think one of the things thatprevents us from being able to
see like that is that we have awe have this socially ingrained
sense of time and the fact thatwe are expected to constantly be
moving through what we're doingand on to the next thing.
(20:04):
Uh and kids, uh if you've everlike been waiting for a child to
tie his shoes before you have toleave the house, like you know
that kids don't have that yet.
They don't have that like uhsocially ingrained sense of
time.
And so it gives them moreopportunity to experience those
small things that don't seemimportant enough for us to stop
(20:24):
and look at.
Um and like logistically, theyare closer to the ground, so
they are seeing more of thesethings.
Like I was on a I was on a walkwith a kid, the kid found a
truffle.
I'm like, what?
You found a truffle.
And like no adult was gonna seethat.
No adult was gonna see that.
They were all looking forchanterelles, but like this kid
(20:45):
found a truffle.
Uh and that's always really coolto me.
If you get if you give a getit's like uh, you know, if you
give a mouse a cookie, if yougive a kid a hand lens, like
you'll never see them again.
SPEAKER_01 (20:57):
Oh yeah, just endless fascination.
Endless fascination, which isgreat.
I like I love that.
That's just from the outside,again, that's one of my favorite
things to watch happen is thatlike joy of discovery.
And that, I don't know, that theworld gets small after a while,
right?
Like uh especially like it'sgreat having a phone that I can
(21:18):
be in contact with people.
It's great that 1,500 milesapart we can like talk and all
that, but like the world getssmall after a while, and I try
to remember being little andthings feeling big and new and
all of that, and getting to seethat again in some in someone
else as you're teaching, asyou're doing that, is just like
that's such a rewardingexperience.
(21:39):
At least, at least it is for me.
SPEAKER_02 (21:40):
Yeah, yeah, it is for me too.
You know, I don't have kids, Idon't want kids, but I really
enjoy kids.
I think they're absolutelyfascinating people.
And a lot of adults overlookkids, or I don't know why it's
like in vogue to like not likechildren.
I think they're reallyinteresting.
But so many of the best foragersthat I know, really, I think all
(22:06):
of the best foragers that I knowtap into their seven-year-old
selves like really well.
It's basically the case for allof my favorite people in the
foraging space.
They know how to see out of theeyes of a seven-year-old and
look at a forest that is stilllike wonderful and magical, but
then also have the knowledge andthe understanding of an adult
(22:27):
that has spent a lot of time inthose spaces.
SPEAKER_01 (22:30):
Yeah, that's really cool.
And I guess honestly, that leadsme to, you know, what we're kind
of here to talk about, your bookthat's coming out, Gathered, on
foraging, feasting, and theseasonal life.
And, you know, just to, youknow, and I'm not just saying
this because you're sitting hereacross the camera from me, but I
love this.
I haven't had a chance to likeget all the way through it.
(22:52):
I've spent a couple days readingit and and I want to talk about
just some of my thoughts aboutit as we go, but it is such a
wonderful, like fun, joyfulapproach to what you do.
So so can you tell us about theprocess?
Where did this come from?
Where did this start?
What was your experience ofwriting it like?
SPEAKER_02 (23:09):
Yeah.
So I think even when I was alittle kid, I always wanted to
write a book, but I didn't knowwhat.
I I like wrote a novel as ateenager that lives on an
ancient like bubble iMac that'sprobably uh in my parents'
basement somewhere.
Uh it's absolutely terrible.
(23:30):
But I love writing.
I love, I find it sometimesdifficult to figure out what I'm
thinking or feeling in themoment.
But when I have time to write itdown, I feel like I can, I can
really express myself and I canreally understand what I'm
thinking and feeling.
And so an agent had actuallyreached out to me, my my agent,
um Callie Dietrich.
(23:51):
I actually have two agents thatwork at the same place, Callie
and Wendy, uh, Wendy Sherman.
And they reached out to me andthey said, you know, we've been
seeing your content on socialmedia and we think you might
have a book in you.
And I was like, that soundscool.
Uh and just because you'realways getting scammed when you
work in social media, people arelike, I've gotten probably 40
(24:13):
podcast invites in the past likefour days that are not real
podcast invites.
But I was, I like spent timelooking into this.
I'm like, are these real people?
Is this a real thing?
Uh and they they wanted torepresent me and I looked into
them, sure enough.
Like I actually had a couple offriends who had worked with them
and had really greatexperiences.
(24:35):
So they had initially suggestedthat I write a field guide.
And I was pretty against theidea.
Because in my mind, I I don'tthink anybody needs like a field
guide from me.
I think there I was trying tofind books that did the thing
(24:57):
that I would have reallybenefited from when I first
started, especially looking formushrooms, because I can't
really remember exactly when Istarted foraging, but uh, when I
started looking for mushrooms,uh there is a lot of information
out there.
But a lot of the soft skills offoraging are not written about
(25:22):
as eloquently, I suppose.
So you can get a field guidethat'll tell you what something
is, but not necessarily likewhat are best practices for
harvesting?
What is the best way to assesswhether or not this is a
specimen that I should collector leave behind?
What are some of the historiesof foraging?
(25:43):
And why is it that these lawsare so confusing?
And who is benefiting from theway that things currently are
and who is beingdisenfranchised?
And so I said, you know, Ireally want to write about all
of these things.
I want people to have goodinformation.
I want people to have, you know,ideas of what to do when they
(26:07):
come home with the things thatthey forage.
And I also want people tounderstand the nuance of this
activity and that it isn't justgrocery shopping and it isn't
just a way to do consumerism andnot feel as bad about it.
It's about a relationship.
And it's a relationship that youbuild over the course of your
(26:29):
entire life.
And so I thought the best way todo that was through memoir and
talking about some of my own uhjoys and missteps and
experiences and really bring itback to the gift that foraging
has given me.
The I think the most profoundgift that foraging has given me
is the ability to exist incommunity and to experience
(26:54):
reciprocal relationship in a waythat is outside of consumerism
uh and that is outside ofcapital.
SPEAKER_01 (27:05):
Wow.
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
Yeah, that's incredible.
And that's I think that's whatstruck me the most reading
through this this week, is thatit's something so unique in in
the sense that like it ismemoirs, right?
Like you have dates in here andplaces and lived experience that
led you to the knowledge thatyou have and led you to the, I
(27:28):
guess, uh overall conception offoraging in nature and the and
like you said, the community andrelationship.
But also, like there's a ton ofsuper practical things all the
way through it.
Like it opens with definitionsand you should tips like you
should wear long pants.
And that sounds like uh I it'ssuch good advice because people
(27:49):
don't think about those things.
SPEAKER_02 (27:53):
Yeah.
And there are things thatbecause I spend so much time
with beginning foragers, itforces me to remember what it
was like to be a beginningforager and all of the things
that I take for granted now.
And it allows me to address themin advance.
So, like when I send out theinformation about where we're
(28:15):
gonna be meeting for Saturday'sforay, I always include stuff
like that.
Like, hey, here's uh here's whatyou should have with you.
Here are the tools that youmight want.
You know, here are the thingsthat you should do to keep
yourself safe and comfortable.
And some of that stuff you justyou take for granted.
(28:36):
You don't even think about itafter a while.
But like, full disclosure here.
So, like I have been wearing, Iwear the stupidest foraging
uniform you've ever seen.
I wear like leggings, and then Iwear wool socks up to the middle
of my calves.
I have a pair of sneakers onbecause I can't do hiking boots.
(28:57):
They drive me nuts.
Then I throw shorts on over theleggings, and then I tuck my
shirt in, and then I haveanother shirt over that.
So I look like an absolutemoron.
Uh I look like theseven-year-old version of myself
that I, you know, try to be whenI go into the forest.
Like I look ridiculous.
And then two days ago, I sawsome black cherries, and I was
(29:20):
like, oh, I'm wearing shortsright now, but black cherries.
And then I go over, and guesswho has poison ivy all over
their legs now?
This guy didn't listen to my ownadvice.
So sometimes even those of uswho are experienced get humbled
by our own hubris.
SPEAKER_01 (29:39):
Isn't I totally that's and that's such a I think
common experience with peoplethat do things like this.
It's like oh, here's all thestuff you should do.
And then it's like, ah, nah.
It's fine.
It's fine.
SPEAKER_02 (29:51):
It's fine.
I've been doing this forever.
Just one time.
SPEAKER_01 (29:55):
And then yeah, poison ivy is no joke.
SPEAKER_02 (29:57):
It's not.
SPEAKER_01 (29:58):
But then also like, you know.
Ticks and mosquitoes andscorpions, depending on where
you are, and all kinds of thingsthat you just like those things
don't play.
You don't want to deal withthat.
SPEAKER_02 (30:08):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
If you want to get humbled, justspend time in a forest
somewhere.
Spend time in a prairie.
Spend time in a desert.
You will get humbled real quick.
SPEAKER_01 (30:19):
Real quick.
So this seems like a great timefor a quick break.
We'll go to the mid-roll.
I've got some recommendationsand things for you.
We'll talk about the normalstuff.
And then we'll jump back in andtalk more about the writing
process for Gathered and hear alot more from Gabrielle.
So stick with us.
We'll be right back.
Well, hey there, friends.
Welcome to the Mid-Roll.
So nice to have you here asalways.
I'm going to try to keep thisshort today.
(30:40):
And I always say that, and Idon't think I ever do it, but
I'm going to really try forsure.
So, first off, how great isGabriel?
Really the best.
And I cannot tell you how muchI've enjoyed this book.
So I want you again, if youdidn't do it at the beginning,
do it now.
Go click on the link, pre-orderthe book, or order the book, and
you will not regret it.
I promise you won't regret it.
Thanks so much for listening toPlanthropology and being a part
(31:02):
of it.
It's it's wonderful that I getto do this and that you get to
be here with me for it.
And I just love that so much.
If you want to support the show,there's a lot of ways to do it.
The best thing is just to tellsomeone about it.
Uh you have someone who'sinterested in foraging, send
them this episode.
Do you want to just share yourlove of plants with everyone
around you?
Scream it from the rooftops.
How much you loveplanthropology, and I will be
(31:25):
your friend forever.
We'll be best friends.
Like just just just we'll do thething anyway.
You can support the showfinancially.
You can go toplanthropologypodcast.com and
click on merch.
In addition to being able tofind old episodes and things
like that, you can pick up somecool swag.
There should hopefully be newstuff coming.
I think I've been saying thatfor three years, but it's gonna
happen.
It'll happen.
(31:45):
One of these days, it willhappen.
Also, you can go tobuymeacoffee.com slash
planthropology, and for theprice of a coffee, you can help
me support the show.
But mostly the y'all, y'all,these jokes run on caffeine.
The silliness runs on caffeine,and I need more of it because
coffee has gotten expensive.
So if you want to leave a ratingin review, go to Spotify or
Apple Podcasts or Podchaser,anywhere you can and drop a
(32:08):
five-star rating.
And I would I would love that.
It would make me feel good on myinside parts.
And also, if you have any tipsfor the show, any guests you'd
love to see on here, justgeneral comments, send me an
email at planthropologypod atgmail.com.
The last thing I want to talkabout, um, you may remember from
way back a former guest, RachelBoyd, who was also my co-host
(32:30):
and the producer on a differentpodcast I did for a while called
In the Grow.
It's also an NPR show.
It was great.
We haven't gotten to do it in awhile, but she has done a lot of
editing and audio producing.
And she's part of a wonderfulsci-fi podcast that's just
starting up called Blue Life.
And the first couple episodesare out, and y'all, it's so
good.
If you like audio drama, if youlike high production value,
(32:52):
great science fiction stories,you're gonna love Blue Life.
Um, they are still working ontheir funding stage, they're
really close to hitting theirgoals.
And if you have anything thatyou could contribute so that
this excellent show can keepgoing, uh go listen to the first
couple episodes of Blue Life, godrop them some cash if you've
got a little bit extra, and tellthem you'd love to hear more
(33:15):
Blue Life because I, my friends,would love to hear more blue
life, because it's great.
So there's a promo coming uphere in just a couple of
seconds.
I would like for you to listento it with your ear parts, and
then click the link for this aswell and go support them and
just make this happen becauseit's a great show, and I really
want to see where the storygoes.
And so you can help me make surethat that happens.
(33:36):
So get ready for the blue lifepromo, and then we'll come back
with more planthropology, andwe'll start that in like five,
four, three, two, one, go.
SPEAKER_03 (33:48):
Why do we have to do this?
You can't even spend that money.
SPEAKER_01 (33:52):
I told you I have a plan.
SPEAKER_03 (33:55):
Are you gonna go see mom?
If you go see mom without me,I'm looking in this box.
SPEAKER_00 (34:02):
Here's what you came for.
Here's the blue light.
SPEAKER_01 (34:07):
Whoa! Whoa!
SPEAKER_00 (34:11):
What's that?
SPEAKER_01 (34:14):
Hey.
SPEAKER_00 (34:17):
What are the two givens in life?
Huh?
My grandparents before the warsused to say, death and taxes, am
I right?
Well yes, but But now there arethree things you can count on:
death, taxes, and blue life.
Everybody needs blue life tosurvive, Carolyn.
SPEAKER_03 (34:49):
Need more Blue Life?
Check out episode one now.
You can listen on Spotify,Apple, or wherever you get your
podcasts.
Blue Life is an independentpodcast, and you can help
support us by going to BlueLifeworld.com and joining our
community.
Live Blue.
SPEAKER_01 (35:12):
So I've sort of been through this writing process,
but I think it's somethingthat's very foreign to most
people.
Because it's I and I honestly,and I've said this before, but
and I fully believe this.
I think whether you're writingit, whether you're dictating it,
whether you're just thinkingthrough it, everyone has like a
story in them they need to tell.
Whether it goes anywhere,whether you sell it, whether it
(35:34):
just sits on a shelf or an oldbubble iMac, like I feel like
that is such a catharticexperience and like helps you
understand a lot about like theyou and your experiences.
But from like a writing andtechnical and like process
standpoint, if you don't mind,would you just walk through what
that looks like forming thebook, coming up with the
(35:55):
chapters, coming up with thetopics, all that?
SPEAKER_02 (35:57):
Yeah.
So I'm a big fan of an outline.
I mean, that's how I that's howI do all of my academic papers.
I outline all the way until Ihave a paper.
I kind of outline until I have abook.
And it took me, I want to say, atotal of maybe 18 months to
write the book.
(36:18):
So I kind of took my time withit.
I was also in school at the sametime.
So, you know, a little bit toomuch going on at once.
Definitely wouldn't recommend itto anybody who's thinking about
doing a PhD program and writinga book at the same time.
That was real dumb.
But for me, I found that Iworked best when I was really
(36:40):
intentional about blocking offtime.
So I would make sure that I likeam in my office, I have the door
closed, my cats aren't botheringme, I'm just in here and I'm
working.
I would also kind of try to drawmyself out through the store,
(37:01):
the beginning of the story Iwanted to tell, and the end of
the story I wanted to tell.
Um, so having a beginning and anend really helped because
everything else that was in themiddle could kind of it could
kind of pull towards that end.
So one thing that I do a lot inthe book is play with time.
So I, you know, you're it's aseasonal guide.
(37:26):
So I have to think back todifferent years where I was
experiencing that season andfind the right story to tell,
and find the right plant or theright mushroom to teach a lesson
or to illustrate a point.
And that was the hardest part.
(37:47):
The hardest part was decidingwhich stories I was going to
tell and which ones I would savefor another book, uh, which ones
maybe didn't fit in this one.
And so I wrote the text first,and then I went back and I said,
okay, these are all of thedifferent plants and mushrooms
that I referenced that I want tocome up with recipes for.
(38:12):
Some of them were newlydeveloped recipes, some of them
were recipes that I've madevideos about, but that I just
wanted to describe in moredetail, or I wanted to explain
the science of how likelactofermentation works so that
you can apply it to any numberof different things that you
find throughout the year.
I also wanted things that builton each other.
So, you know, if you makeJuneberry barbecue sauce earlier
(38:35):
in the year, then you can use iton the Maitaki that you find in
November.
And with the field guide, I wasreally, really helped by the
fact that I had a wonderfulillustrator who was feeding me
drawings as I was writing.
So finding an illustrator tooktime.
I actually ended up hiring afriend of mine who I met at
(38:58):
Mushroom Camp in Michiganprobably five years ago.
And she does these wonderful,dreamy watercolors that are
morphologically accurate, butthey have like a soul.
There's just there's justsomething about them, they have
a soul.
And being fed theseillustrations and you know,
(39:19):
working on the chapters thatthey appear in, it was just
like, yes, I can, I can likeimagine exactly where I was, I
can remember these things, and Ican come up with uh a thread
that ties all of these thingstogether.
SPEAKER_01 (39:35):
And I'm glad you brought that up because I was
gonna ask you about theillustrations in here because I
love the like line drawing styleand just I like it.
SPEAKER_02 (39:43):
Oh yeah, and I that's an arc, so that doesn't
have the full color spread, butshe did like all the images that
you see on the front are gonnabe in the spread, and there are
like 40 more images that arejust like so beautiful.
SPEAKER_01 (39:56):
If you happen to be watching a video of this at some
point when I get my stufftogether and put it on YouTube,
these illustrations arebeautiful.
I mean, really beautiful.
That's so cool.
And so you mentioned therecipes, and that's kind of as
you've been talking, I've beensort of filtering or flipping
through here looking at recipes.
And it's actually really funnywhen you were talking about that
lactofermentation barbecuerecipe, that was actually the
(40:18):
one that I had opened.
SPEAKER_02 (40:19):
Oh, that's really funny.
SPEAKER_01 (40:20):
Weirdly.
So these are all your originalrecipes, you've come up with all
the stuff and done all that.
SPEAKER_02 (40:25):
Yeah, I mean, some of these are like modifications
of things that I make usinggrocery store ingredients too.
You know, like I I cannot saythat onigiri is like an original
recipe.
I'm I'm modifying it, and I'mthe real like information of the
recipe that's going to be usefulto you is like, how do you
(40:46):
prepare this foraged ingredientthat I have included?
So I spent a lot of time recipetesting, uh, a lot of time just
like playing with ingredientsand uh importantly talking to
people who spend a lot of timewith some of these ingredients.
So I ended up hiring a number ofpeople to kind of serve as an
(41:07):
editorial board because I wastrying to do too many things.
I was honestly shocked that Isold the book at all because or
that so many people wereinterested in it because I was
like, well, it's it's a memoirand it's a little bit of field
guide and a cookbook.
And also like I have thesemeditations in there, and
(41:28):
there's just like so much goingon because I like leaving all my
options open and I likeincluding as much as I can.
I, you know, I turn in mymanuscript and they're like,
there's a lot going on here.
I'm like, yeah.
But anyway, I had this sort ofeditorial board of four
different people.
So I had uh my friend JBDouglas, who is a culinary
(41:53):
genius who specifically workswith wild food.
And I had him like check overall of my work and make sure
that my recipes made sense, thatthey were able to be followed,
and that the things that I wasdoing with the ingredients were
like the optimal ways to treatthem.
Because, like, even though Iknow, you know, how to use May
(42:16):
Apple, maybe there's somethingthat I could do that's even
better.
Or maybe there's a way of doingthis that's easier, a way of
processing this that's easier.
And so JB was really helpfulwith that.
Um, I had done a bit of a workswap with Sam Thayer, who's
written a number of books, buthe just came out with a field
(42:38):
guide a couple of years ago andasked if I would copy edit it.
And rather than acceptingpayment, I said, How about I
copy edit this for you and thenyou do the same thing for my
book?
Um, and so he was my uh myplants expert.
And uh I had Errol Bonkowski,who is a uh mushroom expert.
(43:00):
Uh, she's one of the topidentifiers on iNaturalist.
We know each other adjacently.
We never met in person, but Ihad sent her a message and said,
Would you be on board with this?
And she was super gracious andshe checked all of the work with
mushrooms.
And then the last piece of thepuzzle was that I felt that
since I was spending a lot oftime talking about indigenous
people and indigenous practices,I really needed to bring
(43:23):
somebody on board who who wasindigenous and who was a
generally an expert in uhhistorical cultural food
practices.
Um, and so that's where VivianMork came in.
And she was really great and uhactually caught a couple of
errors that I had made and acouple of things that would have
been a little bit embarrassing,uh, just about like mixing up a
(43:45):
couple of people groups.
So um, so having Vivian wasreally helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (43:51):
That's super cool.
And uh I saw a post you maderecently, maybe last week.
I don't know, time is like aflat circle, I have no idea, but
recently about how it takes avillage to do something like
this, right?
You it's it is a in a cool sortof way, and I love the way you
talk about it because of the wayyou talk about community.
Like this is a work ofcommunity, right?
(44:12):
This is something thatrepresents so many different
peoples and so many differentviewpoints, but kind of refined
into your own.
And I just I think that's athat's such a neat concept.
SPEAKER_02 (44:23):
Yeah, that was really intentional.
You're probably familiar withthe the general feeling in a lot
of foraging spaces, in a lot ofbushcrafting, and I I hate the
word, but like primitive livingspaces.
Uh, the whole thing isindividualism.
Everybody's always pushing forlike, here's how you can be
self-sufficient.
Self-sufficiency is garbage, itdoesn't work.
(44:46):
You will get sick, you will burnout, you will, you know, your
crops will fail, your livestockwill die.
Like you don't have the capacityas one person to live a good
life with nobody else aroundyou.
We human beings, we have notevolved that way, we have not
developed that way, we are notmeant to be that way.
(45:09):
We are meant these these skillswere developed in the context of
community, and they need to bepracticed in the context of
community.
Uh, or not islands.
And the hyperindividualism is ais a perversion of like the very
thing that we are supposed to belearning from the forest.
SPEAKER_01 (45:30):
Yeah, uh a hundred percent.
That that's very well said.
Yeah.
So that's and it's superinteresting to think about.
And I think that's somethingthat's important for people to
hear with everything, justeverything, right?
Everything happening, all theweirdness, all the turmoil, and
uh that that we survive, we notjust survive, but we thrive and
(45:52):
we prosper and we lead, like yousay, meaningful lives through
community.
And that is such a just such agood thing to talk about and
think about.
SPEAKER_02 (46:02):
Totally.
SPEAKER_01 (46:03):
So, and I know it's hard to pick one, but do you
have a favorite recipe or afavorite thing that you forage?
SPEAKER_02 (46:08):
Man, I don't really have a favorite thing that I
forage.
I tend to get really obsessedwith whatever the season is at a
given time.
So, like right now, I'm just inberry mode.
I'm going out for black cherriesand autumn olive and like all of
these things that are justexploding at the moment.
Uh in a month, it's gonna be allabout my take and like the last
(46:32):
bolites that are coming up.
Uh, then it's gonna be, youknow, persimmons or whatever.
I but yeah, at the moment it'suh it's also an amazing spice
bush year.
So I've just been collecting somuch of it.
And uh I've got I think fivetrays in my dehydrator right now
(46:53):
adjust of spice bush, becausethe last couple of years haven't
been as great.
So I'm trying to capitalize onthat while I can.
SPEAKER_01 (47:01):
I think one of my favorite like things that I've
actually made.
So I live, by the way, just asan aside in the middle of
nowhere, kind of up on this likethis high prairie, you know,
we're about a thousand metersabove sea level, and it's a
short grass prairie and veryflat, and mostly ag land now,
right?
It's mostly agricultural.
So, you know, there's things toforage here.
(47:22):
They're a little bit fewer andfarther between than places with
mountains and trees and thingslike that until you get down.
Um, there are natural springs,there's muscadines, there's
hawthorns, there's all there arethings, but one of my favorite
things that I've made that camefrom one of your videos was a
red bud syrup, like a red budsimple syrup.
(47:42):
I have a couple of red buds inmy front yard.
Great US uh North Americannative plant.
They're so cool, so cool,gorgeous.
Except that I think I sent you amessage.
I waited too long this year, andthey had already been pollinated
a little bit, and it was likevery bean forward.
It was very that's a legume, solike that does happen, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (48:06):
Yeah.
Usually the and okay, so I alsohave a red bud in the side yard
at my house that I've just sortof allowed to do its thing
because I love red bud.
And the last two years I havegotten to it too late, which is
so stupid because it is in myyard.
It's in my yard.
(48:27):
What am I doing?
Why is this so difficult?
But then once they get a littlebit too bean forward, I usually
just end up throwing them intacos.
SPEAKER_01 (48:35):
Oh, that's a good idea.
SPEAKER_02 (48:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (48:38):
Yeah.
Okay.
I'll have to think about thatone in the in the future because
like I made all this simplesyrup and I was just like, oh,
it's weird.
SPEAKER_02 (48:46):
It's weird.
Yeah.
I I find that they're a lotbetter before they open up.
Yeah, more citrusy.
SPEAKER_01 (48:54):
But same deal.
I walk by these two super treesevery stinking day.
And I'm like, oh, I need to dothat when I get home.
And then two weeks later they'reopen and the bees are there, and
I'm like, oh well, maybe nextyear.
So let me kind of start to wrapup here.
Uh if you had, and I think youhave uh talked about this last
(49:15):
time you were on, but I thinkit's good to reiterate, aside
from buying this book, whicheveryone should, if someone
wants to get into foraging, getinto being more connected with
their wild spaces and theirhuman and ecological community,
what do you where should westart?
Where do you think someoneshould start?
SPEAKER_02 (49:32):
I think you should start by finding people.
Even before you like go get abook, I would find people.
So there are a few ways to dothis.
Most, if you live in the US, oror even in like parts of Canada,
uh, if you look on the NorthAmerican Mycological Association
website, Nama.org, you can findmushroom clubs that meet near
(49:55):
you.
And if you go, you don't evenhave to just do mushroom clubs.
There are often like foraginggroups or even just like native
plant groups, people that areinterested in this stuff.
You can find a lot of them onFacebook.
But try to join a group ofpeople who can teach you things.
Something else that I will tellpeople to do is like follow your
(50:16):
curiosity.
So go into a green space thatyou know well and look around
and see if there's anything thatyou can identify.
For some people, it's gonna be adandelion.
Um, maybe for some people it'sgonna be a white clover,
something along those lines,something that's very ubiquitous
that everybody generally knows.
(50:39):
You might find that you knowmore than you think you do.
Uh, and then you can sit and youcan just sit with a plant or sit
with a mushroom and try tofigure it out tip to tail, like
just what am I looking at?
What are the features that I'mseeing?
Who is this?
Who is this being that I'msitting with?
(51:00):
And really spend your time withthem.
I the one of the best ways thatyou can learn what's around you
is to not start with the ideathat you're going to look for
food and instead start with theidea that you are going to learn
who some plant or some mushroomis.
Um and once you figure that out,you will start seeing them more
(51:25):
places.
And then you can go, wait aminute, I always see this plant
growing near this plant.
What are these plants?
So it allows you to kind ofexpand over time.
And you can use tools likeiNaturalist to help you narrow
things down to genus, but reallylike observation is so
(51:46):
underrated and underappreciatedwhen it comes to learning about
plants and mushrooms.
And starting with curiosityrather than like conquest is
usually a good place to, it'susually a good place to be.
SPEAKER_01 (52:01):
You've given me already so many great clips out
of this.
Like you're a pro, but like no,I love that.
Starting with curiosity ratherthan conquest.
Because I you're gosh, and I'mgonna think about that a lot,
because I think when we enterthese things, we enter these new
hobbies, these new pursuits, weare conditioned to think of it
(52:23):
of like, how do I win?
How do I conquer this thinginstead of how do I just know
more?
How do I be more in community,more in harmony with this?
That's really a good way tothink of it.
SPEAKER_02 (52:33):
Yeah, and foraging is such a localized set of
skills uh in some cases.
Like the if I went out to Texasright now and you showed me
around your yard, I would beable to identify some things and
then other things, I would haveno clue because I've never met
those plants before.
(52:54):
I've never met those fungibefore.
I have no idea.
And so then I would like need tobe introduced.
And I we get this idea that likewe can somehow, like you said,
we can win.
We can like get all theknowledge and then always be the
smartest person in the room.
And nature will always humbleyou because that will never
(53:15):
happen to you with the outdoors.
Like, you will always havesomething to learn.
And if you make the goallearning instead of making the
goal like having a freezer fullof foraged mushrooms or like
foraging 90% of what you eat, orlike whatever it is, it's it
those things will come, like youwill have like a great
(53:38):
chanterelle score.
But if that's what you're alwayslooking for, then you'll you'll
always be disappointed.
Or at least most of the timeyou'll be disappointed.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (53:48):
Yeah.
You have to, I don't know,prioritize the the process and
then the good things that comeout of it come out of it.
And that's great.
SPEAKER_02 (53:56):
Yeah.
And just like let yourself bedelighted and let yourself take
time and let yourself leavethings.
You know, let yourself walk pastsomething and say hi and go, I
you know what, I've got enoughof you at home.
I'm good.
SPEAKER_01 (54:10):
That's really cool.
That's really cool.
You know, I understand that likeyou've got a ton going on
between the PhD, between thebook coming out, and just
everything else that you do.
But like, what's on the horizonfor you?
What's next?
SPEAKER_02 (54:22):
It's hard to think past the book because it's not
out yet and it's coming out.
I am hoping to take a realvacation.
I want to go on a real vacation.
Uh, which to me is like I wantto go out to Oregon during
mushroom season and like turn myphone onto airplane mode and
disappear.
(54:43):
But we'll see.
We'll see when I can makesomething like that happen.
SPEAKER_01 (54:48):
I think that's a good goal.
I think that's like a thing weshould all want is to just like
I'm going low-tech, like brickmy phone for a week.
Nobody knows where I am.
That sounds like the best thing.
SPEAKER_02 (55:01):
Yeah.
I just want to sit in a littlecabin with a stack of novels and
not know what time it is.
SPEAKER_01 (55:10):
It sounds wonderful.
Like, truly wonderful.
Well, Gabrielle, thanks foreverything for your knowledge,
your wisdom, your experience.
I I again, I'm not just sayingthis.
I genuinely like think the worldof you and value you as a
friend.
And I appreciate all the heartyou put into this and just
everything you do.
So thanks for being on.
It was a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_02 (55:30):
Thank you so much for having me again.
It's been so good to catch upwith you.
And I'm just really gratefulthat that you like it.
And I hope that other people dotoo.
SPEAKER_01 (55:40):
I think they will.
So, real quick before we jumpoff, tell us where all we can
find you, when the book comesout, and where to find it.
SPEAKER_02 (55:46):
Yeah, so you can find it all places that books
are sold.
I've been encouraging people togo through their indie
booksellers because the world isterrible enough and Jeff Bezos
doesn't need any more of ourmoney.
But it comes out October 21st.
You can pre-order it if you'relistening to this before then.
Uh, and you can find me atChaotic Forager on all on all
(56:08):
socials and uh chaotiforager.comif you're interested in a
workshop or something alongthose lines.
SPEAKER_01 (56:14):
Very cool.
Well, it was a pleasure asalways.
Thanks so much.
And we'll have to do this againsometime.
SPEAKER_02 (56:19):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (56:21):
Y'all, I think this idea of curiosity over conquest
is one of my new very favoritethings because it really frames
how we see the world.
And I think the lens throughwhich Gabrielle views the world
around her, how she sees nature,how she sees all the things that
she encounters out there is justso refreshing and so wonderful
and something that we could alluse like a lot more of, like a
(56:43):
lot more of in our lives.
So, Gabrielle, thank you so muchfor being on.
Thank you for being back onPlanthropology and for writing
such a great book.
So, again, if you have not doneit yet, go pre-order or order
gathered on foraging, feasting,and the seasonal life, and and
you will love it, I promise.
Thanks for being a part ofPlanthropology, thanks for
listening.
You know I do this for you, andit is one of the great pleasures
(57:06):
of my life.
Planthropology is hosted,recorded, edited, all the things
by me.
Our intro and outro music is bythe award-winning composer Nick
Scout, and the mid-roll tunesare by my buddy Rui and his
lo-fi dad jazz.
So thanks for listening, thanksfor being cool.
Y'all keep being kind to oneanother.
If you have not to date beenkind to one another, hey, give
(57:27):
that a try.
We need a lot more of that.
So be good, be kind, keep beingreally cool plant people, and I
will see you next time.
What is up, plant people?
It's time once more for thePlanthropology Podcast, the show
where we dive into the lives andcareers of some very cool plant
people to figure out why they dowhat they do and what keeps them
coming back for more.
I'm Vic Rom Beliga, your hostand your humble guide in this
journey through the sciences,and as always, my dear friends,
I am so gosh darn excited to bewith you today.
Hey y'all, I have a returningguest today, and she's been a
(00:23):
crowd favorite, and I mean oneof my favorites for a very long
time.
And she has a brand new bookcoming out that I wanted her to
have the opportunity to tell youall about.
Depending on where you'relistening to this, it may be
brand new, it may beforthcoming, it may have been
out for the immeasurable past,assuming that this is being
listened to, you know, down theroad, and uh, you know, we've
(00:45):
figured things out as a species,but I digress.
My guest for today is thechaotic forager herself,
Gabrielle Serberville.
We've been friends for a fewyears.
We were mutuals on TikTok andInstagram and some different
places, and we've just sort ofkept up since the first time she
was on the show, like four yearsago.
And it just, it's so much fungetting to watch her content.
She is so excited about naturalspaces and wild foods and the
(01:07):
preservation of both of those,that she is just the perfect
spokesperson for our planet.
And she's written a new bookcalled Gathered on Foraging,
Feasting, and the Seasonal Life,which comes out in October of
2025.
And there's plenty moreinformation this episode about
that.
But it's all about herexperiences in nature and with
gathering and foraging andliving off of the things that
(01:29):
the planet provides for us.
And there's great memoirs inhere, recollections of her time
in nature and learning to forageand learning about the wild
spaces around her, but also likegreat recipes and tips and
tricks.
Like if you're going outforaging, maybe you wear pants,
stuff like that.
It's really great stuff.
So you're gonna enjoy thisepisode.
I'm gonna tell you right now,you need to go pre-order her
(01:52):
book.
Do it right now.
Okay?
Right now.
Do it now.
There's a link in the thing.
Go to the link in the thing andorder the book, and then come
back and listen to all the goodstuff she's going to tell you
about it.
So I can't wait for you to hearthis.
It was such a genuine, genuinepleasure to get uh record with
Gabrielle again.
So pull up a chair, find a bowlof wild mushrooms, but very
(02:14):
carefully so you don't die, andget ready for episode 123 of the
Planthropology Podcast with thechaotic forager Gabrielle
Serverville.
SPEAKER_02 (02:52):
I'm good.
I'm so excited to be here.
It's been a long time.
SPEAKER_01 (02:57):
Yeah, we were just talking off like off recording
before we started that you knowyou've been on the show before,
and that was that episode.
I'm actually gonna look.
I'm gonna pull up the datebecause it shocked me, actually.
It was episode 61, and that wasOctober 12th, 2021.
SPEAKER_02 (03:14):
That's insane.
So, like right at straight uppandemic times, like wow.
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
It was that's and like in my mind, I was like, oh,
it's just been a year or two,like it hasn't been that long,
but like time has blown by.
SPEAKER_02 (03:28):
It really has.
SPEAKER_01 (03:30):
So, I guess to that end, what have you been up to
for the past four years?
I feel like you've done a lot inthe last four years.
SPEAKER_02 (03:37):
I've been busy, that's for sure.
Yeah.
So I I finished my master's, Istarted my PhD at the University
of Virginia.
So I moved.
I I live out in Virginia now, uhright at the bottom of
Shenandoah National Park, whichhas been really nice.
And I have been writing a book.
I've been trying to figure outwhat I want to be when I grow
(04:03):
up.
SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
That's uh I've decided, I think, the older I
get.
That's sort of like a lifelongendeavor.
The uh figuring out what youwant to do.
Big time.
Because like I still don'treally know.
I'm you know, I'm doing thething, it's fine, but like
there's days that I'm like, isthis the thing?
Is this the thing I do?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (04:24):
Totally.
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
But so well, you talked about living right at the
edge of a national park.
Is that the best thing ever?
SPEAKER_02 (04:32):
It's kind of the best thing ever.
I grew up on the East Coast, sobeing back on the East Coast,
it's I love the Midwest, but Ialways missed the mountains.
So now I live where there aremountains again, and things like
elevation suddenly start tomatter with foraging.
Cause like if I miss a season, Ican just keep on going up and
(04:53):
then I can catch it again.
So it's it's kind of it's kindof nice to have options like
that now.
SPEAKER_01 (05:01):
You know what's funny is that literally never
occurred to me that like you canlike, oh, it's too hot down
here, I'll just go up there.
SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
Uh really nice in the summerwhen it's super humid.
I can just be like, you knowwhere, you know, where it's 10
degrees cooler up there.
SPEAKER_01 (05:19):
That's pretty awesome.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour PhD program, because that's
you know another bigundertaking.
It feels like you always have acouple of really big, cool
projects going, but what are youworking on?
SPEAKER_02 (05:30):
I I feel like I am an academic masochist because I
keep doing this to myself and Idon't know why.
But like I am in a musicprogram.
So it is the composition andcomputer technologies program at
UVA.
Uh, we're a pretty smallprogram, uh, just a bunch of
weirdos who use computers tomake noise and uh a lot of
(05:52):
really interesting people whoare making really cool things.
But I've been focusing more onbiodata and on trying to do
science communication with thisart bent.
So using art to make sciencecommunication more effective,
essentially.
SPEAKER_01 (06:10):
That's really interesting.
And honestly, in my opinion,that's a super important field.
I was talking my my students andI were talking about this a
little bit yesterday that uhwhen we look back at like what
is you know, a historicalrecord.
We were talking about sort ofthe uh origins of horticulture
and what we do in plant science,and looking back at old drawings
(06:31):
and paintings and descriptionsof foods and uh everything tells
us so much about like ourscientific history, our natural
history.
And and that's uh an importantpiece of this teaching puzzle.
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
I find that with all respect toscientists and artists alike,
artists often when they try todo SICOM, they don't quite know
how to read the data that isthere.
And so then that leads you downpaths where you might reach
(07:03):
incorrect conclusions.
Uh and then scientists, even ifthey understand what they're
doing really well, sometimeswhen scientists use art, it ends
up coming off as really corny.
So I'm trying to trying tobridge the gap and do a bit of
both while recognizing that I ama master of neither field.
(07:27):
Um I I am doomed to be a jack ofall trades for the rest of my
life.
But it's been really fun to findnew ways to give people
experiences that make them feela little bit more responsible
for and a little bit moreconnected to the world around
them.
SPEAKER_01 (07:46):
That was so you've studied this a little bit or
you've worked in this in thepast, right?
So if I remember correctly, andagain, it's been a few years,
but your master's project, youwere doing like biofeedback and
translating that into music fromuh mushrooms, is that correct?
SPEAKER_02 (07:59):
Yeah, yep, I'm still doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (08:01):
Yeah.
Okay.
Which is so mushrooms are orfungi, I should say, are like
wild enough in my mind that I'mlike the thought of like
translating I like it's a littlescary to know what they think.
I don't know.
And I know that's not exactlywhat's happening, but it feels
that way, just a little bit.
SPEAKER_02 (08:23):
Yeah, it is interesting because we're kind
of I think it with biodata,there's always this, there's
always this dance, right?
Because you can kind of make thedata say anything you want it
to.
You're sort of choosing thevoice, but you're also trying to
listen at the same time.
So sometimes I get more usefulinformation out of like a
(08:45):
sonogram, or I get more usefulinformation out of like an Excel
spreadsheet than I do fromsomething that has a lot of
pre-recorded sound samples forthe live data to play.
So it's it the important thing,I think, is that everything is
(09:09):
always communicating.
Like all behavior iscommunication.
Your plant tells you when itneeds water by wilting, you
know, uh the earth tells youthat it needs water by burning.
We have all of these cues thatwe've in many cases forgotten
how to read.
And working with biodata givesyou the opportunity to try to
(09:35):
figure out what's going on.
SPEAKER_01 (09:38):
Hmm.
That's yeah, really interesting,really fascinating stuff.
Sort of in the same vein,talking about science
communication and the way we didit, we do it.
You have I was looking at, youknow, I stalk people just a
little bit, like lightlyfriendly.
SPEAKER_02 (09:52):
Well, yeah.
What are friends for?
SPEAKER_01 (09:55):
Right.
Just some light to moderatestalking, just a little bit.
Your like presence online has, Ifeel like, blown up over the
past several years.
And you know, you havesomething, what, like one and a
half million, two millionfollowers across platforms.
And that that number in mybrain, like that's not that's a
weird number to think about.
Is it that way for you?
SPEAKER_02 (10:16):
I think that there's something kind of misleading
about numbers on social media,because just because you have a
million followers doesn't mean amillion people are seeing what
you make.
And I've definitely found thatsince I have shifted my focus
more towards media that is uhlonger lived than social media,
(10:37):
I don't have quite the same pullto make the kinds of videos that
I used to.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
That's interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (10:48):
It feels a little bit more like maintenance rather
than grinding.
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
That's that I think that's such a good way to put
it, actually.
That you just kind of like youkeep up with it, you make the
stuff, but I agree, you know, assomeone who's done long form
media like podcasts and donesome writing, like it is a
totally different animal.
Like the ethos behind it, theway you approach it, so
different.
SPEAKER_02 (11:10):
It is.
Yeah, it definitely is.
I think there's a realdifference between I think when
you're starting out, you're justtrying to get seen.
You're just trying to like getfollowers and you know, trying
to make things that are gonnamake people laugh or gonna make
people think.
Uh, and then as you kind offigure out what you're doing, uh
it it kind of whittles it down alittle bit.
(11:32):
I think I've no I've certainlynoticed like a lot of the people
that I followed at the beginningof the pandemic either aren't
making content anymore, aremaking totally different content
that is more thoughtful, maybe alittle bit more spaced out, or I
guess some of them are stillmaking the content, but not not
in the not in that way.
(11:53):
Like it's more focused, it'smore pointed.
I find that I have a higher barfor the things that I'm actually
willing to post, which is maybenot great content strategy, but
I think is important to mebecause of the kind of thing I'm
I'm trying to accomplish, whichis really solid, trustworthy,
(12:15):
well-thought out education.
SPEAKER_01 (12:19):
That's and that's such a I think an important
point that I think people onboth sides of the screen, so to
speak, or both both sides of themicrophone need to hear is that
like there's this pressure andthere's this idea that you just
oh, like for some reason myalgorithm got so screwed up, and
like every other video now issome like social media coach
(12:40):
that's like, you gotta postevery time you open the app, you
gotta do this and that.
And I'm just like, I for one,that would feel so inauthentic
for what I want to do.
But two, like, who has the timeor brain space for that?
It ain't me.
SPEAKER_02 (12:54):
Not me either.
I can't.
I you have to think of it morelike a marathon than a sprint,
because otherwise you will burnout and you will you will avoid
making content.
And that has happened to me manytimes.
Um, I go at it too hard, I gettoo focused, I get overwhelmed,
and then I can't do anything.
I'm just frozen.
And there'll be like four-monthstretches where I don't post
(13:16):
anything at all.
And that's just because like I'mout, I'm out of juice, ran out
of gas.
I'm gonna sit here until someonecomes along with a gas can
because I can't do it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:29):
That's I found that with the show too, with this
podcast, too.
Because I've taken over theyears a couple of long breaks
that was like, I'm gonna take amonth off.
And then six months later, I'mlike, oh crap, I should record
an episode, you know, like but Ithink there's a line somewhere
where we do things because welove them and we do things
because we care about education,about our the material we're
(13:49):
covering, all that.
And then when it just becomeslike, again, like you said, the
grind, it becomes a thing youhave to do, and it sort of ruins
it.
Uh there's all kinds of reasonsto do things, but I think I'm
like you in a lot of ways that Iwould rather do something I
enjoy that I find value andfulfillment in.
SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
Yeah.
I know that personally I'vetried to I I always try to give
myself a lot of options.
So I try not to put all of myeggs in one basket.
You know, I yes, I'll makecontent and I'll also write a
book and I'll also do thisprogram that has a stipend.
And I'll also have, you know,these other side projects and
(14:25):
things that I'm working on in myhouse or or whatever to keep
that all keep me reallyoccupied, but that give me room
to shift between choices so thatI don't feel like I wake up in
the morning and I feel like I'vewasted a day if I don't make a
video.
SPEAKER_01 (14:41):
Yeah.
That's I think that's a reallysmart and probably healthy way
to approach that.
Because it, you know, again, theburnout, just the pressure.
I think it gets to people.
And it's obvious sometimes whenit starts to, and you see shifts
in their tone and the way theyapproach things, and it's like,
oh, you maybe should take a stepback.
Like, but give it a minute.
SPEAKER_02 (15:02):
Yeah.
And I think sometimes we feelentitled to people's attention
when we've kind of lost the plota little bit.
And that's definitely happenedto me before, where I am like
upset that people aren'twatching my content.
But then I look at it and thenI'm like, well, this isn't good.
No wonder nobody's watching thisbecause it sucks.
Because I'm burnt out and that'scoming through in what I'm
(15:26):
trying to make.
And so then at that point I go,okay, I have to like, I have to
like go visit my folks.
I have to like go outsidewithout a camera.
I have to go lay in the grassand read some Mary Oliver and
cry in a hammock for a while andbe a person.
SPEAKER_01 (15:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:43):
Or just like do something else, like focus on my
garden, you know, do some recipedevelopment, like things that I
don't have to film.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
Yeah, that's cool.
Well, so one nice thing aboutthis content creation, social
media, whatever, is it leads tocool opportunities.
And we'll talk about the book alot more in just a second, but
I've seen over the years thatyou've been teaching workshops
and getting to meet people andgo forage in a group.
Can you talk about that a littlebit, what that experience is
like?
SPEAKER_02 (16:10):
Yeah, I think that I was always really hesitant to do
that because I'd had a couple ofexperiences back when I lived in
Michigan where like people foundout where I lived and were weird
about it, or I people would, youknow, get access to my
information because of a walkthat I led and then kind of
abuse that.
But out here in Virginia, Idecided, you know, I would
(16:34):
really like to have more controlover my time.
I found that I was traveling toall of these different festivals
and doing all of this differentstuff and working my ass off
every summer and not reallyhaving very much to show for it
because so much of my resourceswere getting tied up in travel
or in lodging or um it reallyjust like having time that I
(16:59):
couldn't be here working on myown things.
So I said, you know, I think Ineed to cut back on some of
these external things, some ofthese festivals, um, some of the
stuff that really sucks a lot ofmy energy, where I have to be
chaotic forager all the time foreveryone, and instead like
choose when I'm going to bechaotic forager and I'm going to
(17:19):
be like your guide in the woods.
Uh and so I've started doingmore with you know, leading my
own forays.
I transformed my basement into aclassroom.
So now I have like a littlekitchenette and a whole bunch of
crazy equipment down there.
And uh I'm planning on doingmore, doing more this fall with
(17:42):
like preservation andfermentation and all kinds of
different things.
I've got a vinegar making classthat I'm really excited about.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:52):
That's really cool.
And I like the thought offinding ways to take that
control back, right?
And again, when you'repassionate about something,
being able to like engage withit in a way that that feels good
to you is so important.
And that's really cool.
And but it looks like you have alot of fun doing it.
And that's from the outside as afriend, is fun to see.
(18:13):
It's really cool to see.
SPEAKER_02 (18:14):
I do have a lot of fun doing it, and I feel a lot
more relaxed because I'm makingthe schedule.
So I know that hey, thisSaturday, three weekends from
now, I'm gonna go out in thewoods with people and we're
gonna have fun and I'm gonnahave snacks for them, and we're
just gonna hang out and we'regonna learn things together.
Uh, and I really enjoy thattime.
(18:37):
And I enjoy meeting these peoplewho are at like all different
levels of foraging ability andknowledge.
And we we have kids sometimes.
So I'm gonna be teaching at aforest school this October for a
day, doing kids' forays, whichis always really fun because
kids find cool things, they'relow to the ground, so they find
(18:59):
the really interestingmushrooms.
SPEAKER_01 (19:00):
That's super cool, yeah.
And yeah, and so my son is ninenow, which is weird to think
about.
But though you were just talkingabout of like a kid's
perspective of nature and of thethings, it's so different.
And I don't know where we losethat along the way.
Like, I don't know when thathappens, but like we'll be
(19:22):
outside or like taking pictures.
He likes photography and stuff,and he'll find the smallest
little thing that I would justhave stepped over, walked past,
and like, I don't know, there'ssomething about that like speaks
to me as a nature lover, as aneducator of like finding ways to
hold on to that wonder is so soimportant.
SPEAKER_02 (19:42):
Yeah, I think it's a combination of things.
I I think one of the things thatprevents us from being able to
see like that is that we have awe have this socially ingrained
sense of time and the fact thatwe are expected to constantly be
moving through what we're doingand on to the next thing.
(20:04):
Uh and kids, uh if you've everlike been waiting for a child to
tie his shoes before you have toleave the house, like you know
that kids don't have that yet.
They don't have that like uhsocially ingrained sense of
time.
And so it gives them moreopportunity to experience those
small things that don't seemimportant enough for us to stop
(20:24):
and look at.
Um and like logistically, theyare closer to the ground, so
they are seeing more of thesethings.
Like I was on a I was on a walkwith a kid, the kid found a
truffle.
I'm like, what?
You found a truffle.
And like no adult was gonna seethat.
No adult was gonna see that.
They were all looking forchanterelles, but like this kid
(20:45):
found a truffle.
Uh and that's always really coolto me.
If you get if you give a getit's like uh, you know, if you
give a mouse a cookie, if yougive a kid a hand lens, like
you'll never see them again.
SPEAKER_01 (20:57):
Oh yeah, just endless fascination.
Endless fascination, which isgreat.
I like I love that.
That's just from the outside,again, that's one of my favorite
things to watch happen is thatlike joy of discovery.
And that, I don't know, that theworld gets small after a while,
right?
Like uh especially like it'sgreat having a phone that I can
(21:18):
be in contact with people.
It's great that 1,500 milesapart we can like talk and all
that, but like the world getssmall after a while, and I try
to remember being little andthings feeling big and new and
all of that, and getting to seethat again in some in someone
else as you're teaching, asyou're doing that, is just like
that's such a rewardingexperience.
(21:39):
At least, at least it is for me.
SPEAKER_02 (21:40):
Yeah, yeah, it is for me too.
You know, I don't have kids, Idon't want kids, but I really
enjoy kids.
I think they're absolutelyfascinating people.
And a lot of adults overlookkids, or I don't know why it's
like in vogue to like not likechildren.
I think they're reallyinteresting.
But so many of the best foragersthat I know, really, I think all
(22:06):
of the best foragers that I knowtap into their seven-year-old
selves like really well.
It's basically the case for allof my favorite people in the
foraging space.
They know how to see out of theeyes of a seven-year-old and
look at a forest that is stilllike wonderful and magical, but
then also have the knowledge andthe understanding of an adult
(22:27):
that has spent a lot of time inthose spaces.
SPEAKER_01 (22:30):
Yeah, that's really cool.
And I guess honestly, that leadsme to, you know, what we're kind
of here to talk about, your bookthat's coming out, Gathered, on
foraging, feasting, and theseasonal life.
And, you know, just to, youknow, and I'm not just saying
this because you're sitting hereacross the camera from me, but I
love this.
I haven't had a chance to likeget all the way through it.
(22:52):
I've spent a couple days readingit and and I want to talk about
just some of my thoughts aboutit as we go, but it is such a
wonderful, like fun, joyfulapproach to what you do.
So so can you tell us about theprocess?
Where did this come from?
Where did this start?
What was your experience ofwriting it like?
SPEAKER_02 (23:09):
Yeah.
So I think even when I was alittle kid, I always wanted to
write a book, but I didn't knowwhat.
I I like wrote a novel as ateenager that lives on an
ancient like bubble iMac that'sprobably uh in my parents'
basement somewhere.
Uh it's absolutely terrible.
(23:30):
But I love writing.
I love, I find it sometimesdifficult to figure out what I'm
thinking or feeling in themoment.
But when I have time to write itdown, I feel like I can, I can
really express myself and I canreally understand what I'm
thinking and feeling.
And so an agent had actuallyreached out to me, my my agent,
um Callie Dietrich.
(23:51):
I actually have two agents thatwork at the same place, Callie
and Wendy, uh, Wendy Sherman.
And they reached out to me andthey said, you know, we've been
seeing your content on socialmedia and we think you might
have a book in you.
And I was like, that soundscool.
Uh and just because you'realways getting scammed when you
work in social media, people arelike, I've gotten probably 40
(24:13):
podcast invites in the past likefour days that are not real
podcast invites.
But I was, I like spent timelooking into this.
I'm like, are these real people?
Is this a real thing?
Uh and they they wanted torepresent me and I looked into
them, sure enough.
Like I actually had a couple offriends who had worked with them
and had really greatexperiences.
(24:35):
So they had initially suggestedthat I write a field guide.
And I was pretty against theidea.
Because in my mind, I I don'tthink anybody needs like a field
guide from me.
I think there I was trying tofind books that did the thing
(24:57):
that I would have reallybenefited from when I first
started, especially looking formushrooms, because I can't
really remember exactly when Istarted foraging, but uh, when I
started looking for mushrooms,uh there is a lot of information
out there.
But a lot of the soft skills offoraging are not written about
(25:22):
as eloquently, I suppose.
So you can get a field guidethat'll tell you what something
is, but not necessarily likewhat are best practices for
harvesting?
What is the best way to assesswhether or not this is a
specimen that I should collector leave behind?
What are some of the historiesof foraging?
(25:43):
And why is it that these lawsare so confusing?
And who is benefiting from theway that things currently are
and who is beingdisenfranchised?
And so I said, you know, Ireally want to write about all
of these things.
I want people to have goodinformation.
I want people to have, you know,ideas of what to do when they
(26:07):
come home with the things thatthey forage.
And I also want people tounderstand the nuance of this
activity and that it isn't justgrocery shopping and it isn't
just a way to do consumerism andnot feel as bad about it.
It's about a relationship.
And it's a relationship that youbuild over the course of your
(26:29):
entire life.
And so I thought the best way todo that was through memoir and
talking about some of my own uhjoys and missteps and
experiences and really bring itback to the gift that foraging
has given me.
The I think the most profoundgift that foraging has given me
is the ability to exist incommunity and to experience
(26:54):
reciprocal relationship in a waythat is outside of consumerism
uh and that is outside ofcapital.
SPEAKER_01 (27:05):
Wow.
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
Yeah, that's incredible.
And that's I think that's whatstruck me the most reading
through this this week, is thatit's something so unique in in
the sense that like it ismemoirs, right?
Like you have dates in here andplaces and lived experience that
led you to the knowledge thatyou have and led you to the, I
(27:28):
guess, uh overall conception offoraging in nature and the and
like you said, the community andrelationship.
But also, like there's a ton ofsuper practical things all the
way through it.
Like it opens with definitionsand you should tips like you
should wear long pants.
And that sounds like uh I it'ssuch good advice because people
(27:49):
don't think about those things.
SPEAKER_02 (27:53):
Yeah.
And there are things thatbecause I spend so much time
with beginning foragers, itforces me to remember what it
was like to be a beginningforager and all of the things
that I take for granted now.
And it allows me to address themin advance.
So, like when I send out theinformation about where we're
(28:15):
gonna be meeting for Saturday'sforay, I always include stuff
like that.
Like, hey, here's uh here's whatyou should have with you.
Here are the tools that youmight want.
You know, here are the thingsthat you should do to keep
yourself safe and comfortable.
And some of that stuff you justyou take for granted.
(28:36):
You don't even think about itafter a while.
But like, full disclosure here.
So, like I have been wearing, Iwear the stupidest foraging
uniform you've ever seen.
I wear like leggings, and then Iwear wool socks up to the middle
of my calves.
I have a pair of sneakers onbecause I can't do hiking boots.
(28:57):
They drive me nuts.
Then I throw shorts on over theleggings, and then I tuck my
shirt in, and then I haveanother shirt over that.
So I look like an absolutemoron.
Uh I look like theseven-year-old version of myself
that I, you know, try to be whenI go into the forest.
Like I look ridiculous.
And then two days ago, I sawsome black cherries, and I was
(29:20):
like, oh, I'm wearing shortsright now, but black cherries.
And then I go over, and guesswho has poison ivy all over
their legs now?
This guy didn't listen to my ownadvice.
So sometimes even those of uswho are experienced get humbled
by our own hubris.
SPEAKER_01 (29:39):
Isn't I totally that's and that's such a I think
common experience with peoplethat do things like this.
It's like oh, here's all thestuff you should do.
And then it's like, ah, nah.
It's fine.
It's fine.
SPEAKER_02 (29:51):
It's fine.
I've been doing this forever.
Just one time.
SPEAKER_01 (29:55):
And then yeah, poison ivy is no joke.
SPEAKER_02 (29:57):
It's not.
SPEAKER_01 (29:58):
But then also like, you know.
Ticks and mosquitoes andscorpions, depending on where
you are, and all kinds of thingsthat you just like those things
don't play.
You don't want to deal withthat.
SPEAKER_02 (30:08):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
If you want to get humbled, justspend time in a forest
somewhere.
Spend time in a prairie.
Spend time in a desert.
You will get humbled real quick.
SPEAKER_01 (30:19):
Real quick.
So this seems like a great timefor a quick break.
We'll go to the mid-roll.
I've got some recommendationsand things for you.
We'll talk about the normalstuff.
And then we'll jump back in andtalk more about the writing
process for Gathered and hear alot more from Gabrielle.
So stick with us.
We'll be right back.
Well, hey there, friends.
Welcome to the Mid-Roll.
So nice to have you here asalways.
I'm going to try to keep thisshort today.
(30:40):
And I always say that, and Idon't think I ever do it, but
I'm going to really try forsure.
So, first off, how great isGabriel?
Really the best.
And I cannot tell you how muchI've enjoyed this book.
So I want you again, if youdidn't do it at the beginning,
do it now.
Go click on the link, pre-orderthe book, or order the book, and
you will not regret it.
I promise you won't regret it.
Thanks so much for listening toPlanthropology and being a part
(31:02):
of it.
It's it's wonderful that I getto do this and that you get to
be here with me for it.
And I just love that so much.
If you want to support the show,there's a lot of ways to do it.
The best thing is just to tellsomeone about it.
Uh you have someone who'sinterested in foraging, send
them this episode.
Do you want to just share yourlove of plants with everyone
around you?
Scream it from the rooftops.
How much you loveplanthropology, and I will be
(31:25):
your friend forever.
We'll be best friends.
Like just just just we'll do thething anyway.
You can support the showfinancially.
You can go toplanthropologypodcast.com and
click on merch.
In addition to being able tofind old episodes and things
like that, you can pick up somecool swag.
There should hopefully be newstuff coming.
I think I've been saying thatfor three years, but it's gonna
happen.
It'll happen.
(31:45):
One of these days, it willhappen.
Also, you can go tobuymeacoffee.com slash
planthropology, and for theprice of a coffee, you can help
me support the show.
But mostly the y'all, y'all,these jokes run on caffeine.
The silliness runs on caffeine,and I need more of it because
coffee has gotten expensive.
So if you want to leave a ratingin review, go to Spotify or
Apple Podcasts or Podchaser,anywhere you can and drop a
(32:08):
five-star rating.
And I would I would love that.
It would make me feel good on myinside parts.
And also, if you have any tipsfor the show, any guests you'd
love to see on here, justgeneral comments, send me an
email at planthropologypod atgmail.com.
The last thing I want to talkabout, um, you may remember from
way back a former guest, RachelBoyd, who was also my co-host
(32:30):
and the producer on a differentpodcast I did for a while called
In the Grow.
It's also an NPR show.
It was great.
We haven't gotten to do it in awhile, but she has done a lot of
editing and audio producing.
And she's part of a wonderfulsci-fi podcast that's just
starting up called Blue Life.
And the first couple episodesare out, and y'all, it's so
good.
If you like audio drama, if youlike high production value,
(32:52):
great science fiction stories,you're gonna love Blue Life.
Um, they are still working ontheir funding stage, they're
really close to hitting theirgoals.
And if you have anything thatyou could contribute so that
this excellent show can keepgoing, uh go listen to the first
couple episodes of Blue Life, godrop them some cash if you've
got a little bit extra, and tellthem you'd love to hear more
(33:15):
Blue Life because I, my friends,would love to hear more blue
life, because it's great.
So there's a promo coming uphere in just a couple of
seconds.
I would like for you to listento it with your ear parts, and
then click the link for this aswell and go support them and
just make this happen becauseit's a great show, and I really
want to see where the storygoes.
And so you can help me make surethat that happens.
(33:36):
So get ready for the blue lifepromo, and then we'll come back
with more planthropology, andwe'll start that in like five,
four, three, two, one, go.
SPEAKER_03 (33:48):
Why do we have to do this?
You can't even spend that money.
SPEAKER_01 (33:52):
I told you I have a plan.
SPEAKER_03 (33:55):
Are you gonna go see mom?
If you go see mom without me,I'm looking in this box.
SPEAKER_00 (34:02):
Here's what you came for.
Here's the blue light.
SPEAKER_01 (34:07):
Whoa! Whoa!
SPEAKER_00 (34:11):
What's that?
SPEAKER_01 (34:14):
Hey.
SPEAKER_00 (34:17):
What are the two givens in life?
Huh?
My grandparents before the warsused to say, death and taxes, am
I right?
Well yes, but But now there arethree things you can count on:
death, taxes, and blue life.
Everybody needs blue life tosurvive, Carolyn.
SPEAKER_03 (34:49):
Need more Blue Life?
Check out episode one now.
You can listen on Spotify,Apple, or wherever you get your
podcasts.
Blue Life is an independentpodcast, and you can help
support us by going to BlueLifeworld.com and joining our
community.
Live Blue.
SPEAKER_01 (35:12):
So I've sort of been through this writing process,
but I think it's somethingthat's very foreign to most
people.
Because it's I and I honestly,and I've said this before, but
and I fully believe this.
I think whether you're writingit, whether you're dictating it,
whether you're just thinkingthrough it, everyone has like a
story in them they need to tell.
Whether it goes anywhere,whether you sell it, whether it
(35:34):
just sits on a shelf or an oldbubble iMac, like I feel like
that is such a catharticexperience and like helps you
understand a lot about like theyou and your experiences.
But from like a writing andtechnical and like process
standpoint, if you don't mind,would you just walk through what
that looks like forming thebook, coming up with the
(35:55):
chapters, coming up with thetopics, all that?
SPEAKER_02 (35:57):
Yeah.
So I'm a big fan of an outline.
I mean, that's how I that's howI do all of my academic papers.
I outline all the way until Ihave a paper.
I kind of outline until I have abook.
And it took me, I want to say, atotal of maybe 18 months to
write the book.
(36:18):
So I kind of took my time withit.
I was also in school at the sametime.
So, you know, a little bit toomuch going on at once.
Definitely wouldn't recommend itto anybody who's thinking about
doing a PhD program and writinga book at the same time.
That was real dumb.
But for me, I found that Iworked best when I was really
(36:40):
intentional about blocking offtime.
So I would make sure that I likeam in my office, I have the door
closed, my cats aren't botheringme, I'm just in here and I'm
working.
I would also kind of try to drawmyself out through the store,
(37:01):
the beginning of the story Iwanted to tell, and the end of
the story I wanted to tell.
Um, so having a beginning and anend really helped because
everything else that was in themiddle could kind of it could
kind of pull towards that end.
So one thing that I do a lot inthe book is play with time.
So I, you know, you're it's aseasonal guide.
(37:26):
So I have to think back todifferent years where I was
experiencing that season andfind the right story to tell,
and find the right plant or theright mushroom to teach a lesson
or to illustrate a point.
And that was the hardest part.
(37:47):
The hardest part was decidingwhich stories I was going to
tell and which ones I would savefor another book, uh, which ones
maybe didn't fit in this one.
And so I wrote the text first,and then I went back and I said,
okay, these are all of thedifferent plants and mushrooms
that I referenced that I want tocome up with recipes for.
(38:12):
Some of them were newlydeveloped recipes, some of them
were recipes that I've madevideos about, but that I just
wanted to describe in moredetail, or I wanted to explain
the science of how likelactofermentation works so that
you can apply it to any numberof different things that you
find throughout the year.
I also wanted things that builton each other.
So, you know, if you makeJuneberry barbecue sauce earlier
(38:35):
in the year, then you can use iton the Maitaki that you find in
November.
And with the field guide, I wasreally, really helped by the
fact that I had a wonderfulillustrator who was feeding me
drawings as I was writing.
So finding an illustrator tooktime.
I actually ended up hiring afriend of mine who I met at
(38:58):
Mushroom Camp in Michiganprobably five years ago.
And she does these wonderful,dreamy watercolors that are
morphologically accurate, butthey have like a soul.
There's just there's justsomething about them, they have
a soul.
And being fed theseillustrations and you know,
(39:19):
working on the chapters thatthey appear in, it was just
like, yes, I can, I can likeimagine exactly where I was, I
can remember these things, and Ican come up with uh a thread
that ties all of these thingstogether.
SPEAKER_01 (39:35):
And I'm glad you brought that up because I was
gonna ask you about theillustrations in here because I
love the like line drawing styleand just I like it.
SPEAKER_02 (39:43):
Oh yeah, and I that's an arc, so that doesn't
have the full color spread, butshe did like all the images that
you see on the front are gonnabe in the spread, and there are
like 40 more images that arejust like so beautiful.
SPEAKER_01 (39:56):
If you happen to be watching a video of this at some
point when I get my stufftogether and put it on YouTube,
these illustrations arebeautiful.
I mean, really beautiful.
That's so cool.
And so you mentioned therecipes, and that's kind of as
you've been talking, I've beensort of filtering or flipping
through here looking at recipes.
And it's actually really funnywhen you were talking about that
lactofermentation barbecuerecipe, that was actually the
(40:18):
one that I had opened.
SPEAKER_02 (40:19):
Oh, that's really funny.
SPEAKER_01 (40:20):
Weirdly.
So these are all your originalrecipes, you've come up with all
the stuff and done all that.
SPEAKER_02 (40:25):
Yeah, I mean, some of these are like modifications
of things that I make usinggrocery store ingredients too.
You know, like I I cannot saythat onigiri is like an original
recipe.
I'm I'm modifying it, and I'mthe real like information of the
recipe that's going to be usefulto you is like, how do you
(40:46):
prepare this foraged ingredientthat I have included?
So I spent a lot of time recipetesting, uh, a lot of time just
like playing with ingredientsand uh importantly talking to
people who spend a lot of timewith some of these ingredients.
So I ended up hiring a number ofpeople to kind of serve as an
(41:07):
editorial board because I wastrying to do too many things.
I was honestly shocked that Isold the book at all because or
that so many people wereinterested in it because I was
like, well, it's it's a memoirand it's a little bit of field
guide and a cookbook.
And also like I have thesemeditations in there, and
(41:28):
there's just like so much goingon because I like leaving all my
options open and I likeincluding as much as I can.
I, you know, I turn in mymanuscript and they're like,
there's a lot going on here.
I'm like, yeah.
But anyway, I had this sort ofeditorial board of four
different people.
So I had uh my friend JBDouglas, who is a culinary
(41:53):
genius who specifically workswith wild food.
And I had him like check overall of my work and make sure
that my recipes made sense, thatthey were able to be followed,
and that the things that I wasdoing with the ingredients were
like the optimal ways to treatthem.
Because, like, even though Iknow, you know, how to use May
(42:16):
Apple, maybe there's somethingthat I could do that's even
better.
Or maybe there's a way of doingthis that's easier, a way of
processing this that's easier.
And so JB was really helpfulwith that.
Um, I had done a bit of a workswap with Sam Thayer, who's
written a number of books, buthe just came out with a field
(42:38):
guide a couple of years ago andasked if I would copy edit it.
And rather than acceptingpayment, I said, How about I
copy edit this for you and thenyou do the same thing for my
book?
Um, and so he was my uh myplants expert.
And uh I had Errol Bonkowski,who is a uh mushroom expert.
(43:00):
Uh, she's one of the topidentifiers on iNaturalist.
We know each other adjacently.
We never met in person, but Ihad sent her a message and said,
Would you be on board with this?
And she was super gracious andshe checked all of the work with
mushrooms.
And then the last piece of thepuzzle was that I felt that
since I was spending a lot oftime talking about indigenous
people and indigenous practices,I really needed to bring
(43:23):
somebody on board who who wasindigenous and who was a
generally an expert in uhhistorical cultural food
practices.
Um, and so that's where VivianMork came in.
And she was really great and uhactually caught a couple of
errors that I had made and acouple of things that would have
been a little bit embarrassing,uh, just about like mixing up a
(43:45):
couple of people groups.
So um, so having Vivian wasreally helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (43:51):
That's super cool.
And uh I saw a post you maderecently, maybe last week.
I don't know, time is like aflat circle, I have no idea, but
recently about how it takes avillage to do something like
this, right?
You it's it is a in a cool sortof way, and I love the way you
talk about it because of the wayyou talk about community.
Like this is a work ofcommunity, right?
(44:12):
This is something thatrepresents so many different
peoples and so many differentviewpoints, but kind of refined
into your own.
And I just I think that's athat's such a neat concept.
SPEAKER_02 (44:23):
Yeah, that was really intentional.
You're probably familiar withthe the general feeling in a lot
of foraging spaces, in a lot ofbushcrafting, and I I hate the
word, but like primitive livingspaces.
Uh, the whole thing isindividualism.
Everybody's always pushing forlike, here's how you can be
self-sufficient.
Self-sufficiency is garbage, itdoesn't work.
(44:46):
You will get sick, you will burnout, you will, you know, your
crops will fail, your livestockwill die.
Like you don't have the capacityas one person to live a good
life with nobody else aroundyou.
We human beings, we have notevolved that way, we have not
developed that way, we are notmeant to be that way.
(45:09):
We are meant these these skillswere developed in the context of
community, and they need to bepracticed in the context of
community.
Uh, or not islands.
And the hyperindividualism is ais a perversion of like the very
thing that we are supposed to belearning from the forest.
SPEAKER_01 (45:30):
Yeah, uh a hundred percent.
That that's very well said.
Yeah.
So that's and it's superinteresting to think about.
And I think that's somethingthat's important for people to
hear with everything, justeverything, right?
Everything happening, all theweirdness, all the turmoil, and
uh that that we survive, we notjust survive, but we thrive and
(45:52):
we prosper and we lead, like yousay, meaningful lives through
community.
And that is such a just such agood thing to talk about and
think about.
SPEAKER_02 (46:02):
Totally.
SPEAKER_01 (46:03):
So, and I know it's hard to pick one, but do you
have a favorite recipe or afavorite thing that you forage?
SPEAKER_02 (46:08):
Man, I don't really have a favorite thing that I
forage.
I tend to get really obsessedwith whatever the season is at a
given time.
So, like right now, I'm just inberry mode.
I'm going out for black cherriesand autumn olive and like all of
these things that are justexploding at the moment.
Uh in a month, it's gonna be allabout my take and like the last
(46:32):
bolites that are coming up.
Uh, then it's gonna be, youknow, persimmons or whatever.
I but yeah, at the moment it'suh it's also an amazing spice
bush year.
So I've just been collecting somuch of it.
And uh I've got I think fivetrays in my dehydrator right now
(46:53):
adjust of spice bush, becausethe last couple of years haven't
been as great.
So I'm trying to capitalize onthat while I can.
SPEAKER_01 (47:01):
I think one of my favorite like things that I've
actually made.
So I live, by the way, just asan aside in the middle of
nowhere, kind of up on this likethis high prairie, you know,
we're about a thousand metersabove sea level, and it's a
short grass prairie and veryflat, and mostly ag land now,
right?
It's mostly agricultural.
So, you know, there's things toforage here.
(47:22):
They're a little bit fewer andfarther between than places with
mountains and trees and thingslike that until you get down.
Um, there are natural springs,there's muscadines, there's
hawthorns, there's all there arethings, but one of my favorite
things that I've made that camefrom one of your videos was a
red bud syrup, like a red budsimple syrup.
(47:42):
I have a couple of red buds inmy front yard.
Great US uh North Americannative plant.
They're so cool, so cool,gorgeous.
Except that I think I sent you amessage.
I waited too long this year, andthey had already been pollinated
a little bit, and it was likevery bean forward.
It was very that's a legume, solike that does happen, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (48:06):
Yeah.
Usually the and okay, so I alsohave a red bud in the side yard
at my house that I've just sortof allowed to do its thing
because I love red bud.
And the last two years I havegotten to it too late, which is
so stupid because it is in myyard.
It's in my yard.
(48:27):
What am I doing?
Why is this so difficult?
But then once they get a littlebit too bean forward, I usually
just end up throwing them intacos.
SPEAKER_01 (48:35):
Oh, that's a good idea.
SPEAKER_02 (48:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (48:38):
Yeah.
Okay.
I'll have to think about thatone in the in the future because
like I made all this simplesyrup and I was just like, oh,
it's weird.
SPEAKER_02 (48:46):
It's weird.
Yeah.
I I find that they're a lotbetter before they open up.
Yeah, more citrusy.
SPEAKER_01 (48:54):
But same deal.
I walk by these two super treesevery stinking day.
And I'm like, oh, I need to dothat when I get home.
And then two weeks later they'reopen and the bees are there, and
I'm like, oh well, maybe nextyear.
So let me kind of start to wrapup here.
Uh if you had, and I think youhave uh talked about this last
(49:15):
time you were on, but I thinkit's good to reiterate, aside
from buying this book, whicheveryone should, if someone
wants to get into foraging, getinto being more connected with
their wild spaces and theirhuman and ecological community,
what do you where should westart?
Where do you think someoneshould start?
SPEAKER_02 (49:32):
I think you should start by finding people.
Even before you like go get abook, I would find people.
So there are a few ways to dothis.
Most, if you live in the US, oror even in like parts of Canada,
uh, if you look on the NorthAmerican Mycological Association
website, Nama.org, you can findmushroom clubs that meet near
(49:55):
you.
And if you go, you don't evenhave to just do mushroom clubs.
There are often like foraginggroups or even just like native
plant groups, people that areinterested in this stuff.
You can find a lot of them onFacebook.
But try to join a group ofpeople who can teach you things.
Something else that I will tellpeople to do is like follow your
(50:16):
curiosity.
So go into a green space thatyou know well and look around
and see if there's anything thatyou can identify.
For some people, it's gonna be adandelion.
Um, maybe for some people it'sgonna be a white clover,
something along those lines,something that's very ubiquitous
that everybody generally knows.
(50:39):
You might find that you knowmore than you think you do.
Uh, and then you can sit and youcan just sit with a plant or sit
with a mushroom and try tofigure it out tip to tail, like
just what am I looking at?
What are the features that I'mseeing?
Who is this?
Who is this being that I'msitting with?
(51:00):
And really spend your time withthem.
I the one of the best ways thatyou can learn what's around you
is to not start with the ideathat you're going to look for
food and instead start with theidea that you are going to learn
who some plant or some mushroomis.
Um and once you figure that out,you will start seeing them more
(51:25):
places.
And then you can go, wait aminute, I always see this plant
growing near this plant.
What are these plants?
So it allows you to kind ofexpand over time.
And you can use tools likeiNaturalist to help you narrow
things down to genus, but reallylike observation is so
(51:46):
underrated and underappreciatedwhen it comes to learning about
plants and mushrooms.
And starting with curiosityrather than like conquest is
usually a good place to, it'susually a good place to be.
SPEAKER_01 (52:01):
You've given me already so many great clips out
of this.
Like you're a pro, but like no,I love that.
Starting with curiosity ratherthan conquest.
Because I you're gosh, and I'mgonna think about that a lot,
because I think when we enterthese things, we enter these new
hobbies, these new pursuits, weare conditioned to think of it
(52:23):
of like, how do I win?
How do I conquer this thinginstead of how do I just know
more?
How do I be more in community,more in harmony with this?
That's really a good way tothink of it.
SPEAKER_02 (52:33):
Yeah, and foraging is such a localized set of
skills uh in some cases.
Like the if I went out to Texasright now and you showed me
around your yard, I would beable to identify some things and
then other things, I would haveno clue because I've never met
those plants before.
(52:54):
I've never met those fungibefore.
I have no idea.
And so then I would like need tobe introduced.
And I we get this idea that likewe can somehow, like you said,
we can win.
We can like get all theknowledge and then always be the
smartest person in the room.
And nature will always humbleyou because that will never
(53:15):
happen to you with the outdoors.
Like, you will always havesomething to learn.
And if you make the goallearning instead of making the
goal like having a freezer fullof foraged mushrooms or like
foraging 90% of what you eat, orlike whatever it is, it's it
those things will come, like youwill have like a great
(53:38):
chanterelle score.
But if that's what you're alwayslooking for, then you'll you'll
always be disappointed.
Or at least most of the timeyou'll be disappointed.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (53:48):
Yeah.
You have to, I don't know,prioritize the the process and
then the good things that comeout of it come out of it.
And that's great.
SPEAKER_02 (53:56):
Yeah.
And just like let yourself bedelighted and let yourself take
time and let yourself leavethings.
You know, let yourself walk pastsomething and say hi and go, I
you know what, I've got enoughof you at home.
I'm good.
SPEAKER_01 (54:10):
That's really cool.
That's really cool.
You know, I understand that likeyou've got a ton going on
between the PhD, between thebook coming out, and just
everything else that you do.
But like, what's on the horizonfor you?
What's next?
SPEAKER_02 (54:22):
It's hard to think past the book because it's not
out yet and it's coming out.
I am hoping to take a realvacation.
I want to go on a real vacation.
Uh, which to me is like I wantto go out to Oregon during
mushroom season and like turn myphone onto airplane mode and
disappear.
(54:43):
But we'll see.
We'll see when I can makesomething like that happen.
SPEAKER_01 (54:48):
I think that's a good goal.
I think that's like a thing weshould all want is to just like
I'm going low-tech, like brickmy phone for a week.
Nobody knows where I am.
That sounds like the best thing.
SPEAKER_02 (55:01):
Yeah.
I just want to sit in a littlecabin with a stack of novels and
not know what time it is.
SPEAKER_01 (55:10):
It sounds wonderful.
Like, truly wonderful.
Well, Gabrielle, thanks foreverything for your knowledge,
your wisdom, your experience.
I I again, I'm not just sayingthis.
I genuinely like think the worldof you and value you as a
friend.
And I appreciate all the heartyou put into this and just
everything you do.
So thanks for being on.
It was a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_02 (55:30):
Thank you so much for having me again.
It's been so good to catch upwith you.
And I'm just really gratefulthat that you like it.
And I hope that other people dotoo.
SPEAKER_01 (55:40):
I think they will.
So, real quick before we jumpoff, tell us where all we can
find you, when the book comesout, and where to find it.
SPEAKER_02 (55:46):
Yeah, so you can find it all places that books
are sold.
I've been encouraging people togo through their indie
booksellers because the world isterrible enough and Jeff Bezos
doesn't need any more of ourmoney.
But it comes out October 21st.
You can pre-order it if you'relistening to this before then.
Uh, and you can find me atChaotic Forager on all on all
(56:08):
socials and uh chaotiforager.comif you're interested in a
workshop or something alongthose lines.
SPEAKER_01 (56:14):
Very cool.
Well, it was a pleasure asalways.
Thanks so much.
And we'll have to do this againsometime.
SPEAKER_02 (56:19):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (56:21):
Y'all, I think this idea of curiosity over conquest
is one of my new very favoritethings because it really frames
how we see the world.
And I think the lens throughwhich Gabrielle views the world
around her, how she sees nature,how she sees all the things that
she encounters out there is justso refreshing and so wonderful
and something that we could alluse like a lot more of, like a
(56:43):
lot more of in our lives.
So, Gabrielle, thank you so muchfor being on.
Thank you for being back onPlanthropology and for writing
such a great book.
So, again, if you have not doneit yet, go pre-order or order
gathered on foraging, feasting,and the seasonal life, and and
you will love it, I promise.
Thanks for being a part ofPlanthropology, thanks for
listening.
You know I do this for you, andit is one of the great pleasures
(57:06):
of my life.
Planthropology is hosted,recorded, edited, all the things
by me.
Our intro and outro music is bythe award-winning composer Nick
Scout, and the mid-roll tunesare by my buddy Rui and his
lo-fi dad jazz.
So thanks for listening, thanksfor being cool.
Y'all keep being kind to oneanother.
If you have not to date beenkind to one another, hey, give
(57:27):
that a try.
We need a lot more of that.
So be good, be kind, keep beingreally cool plant people, and I
will see you next time.
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