September 12, 2025 • 40 mins
Dr. Chad Miller from Colorado State University shares his innovative approach to teaching horticulture through a classroom trade show format that transforms traditional plant identification courses into engaging, multidimensional learning experiences. As the 2024 ASHS Outstanding Undergraduate Educator award winner, he discusses how he combines plant knowledge with professional skill development to prepare students for success beyond the classroom.
• Creating a trade show environment where students showcase plant knowledge creatively
• Moving beyond memorization to develop professional communication skills
• Using peer evaluation to help students learn to give and receive constructive feedback
• Approaching teaching as scholarship worthy of research and publication
• Balancing high expectations with understanding of students' complex lives
• Finding joy in seeing students succeed professionally
• Establishing a classroom culture where it's safe to not know and to learn from mistakes
To read more about Dr. Miller's teaching approach, check out his award-winning paper "Classroom Trade Show: An Alternative to Traditional Classroom Presentations in an Undergraduate Plant Identification Course" in HortTechnology. If you're interested in teaching innovations in horticulture, consider joining the ASHS Teaching Methods Interest Group.
Learn more about the American Society for Horticultural Science (ASHS) at https://ashs.org/.
HortTechnology, HortScience and the Journal of the American Society for Horticultural Science are all open-access and peer-reviewed journals, published by the American Society of Horticultural Science (ASHS). Find them at journals.ashs.org.
Consider becoming an ASHS member at https://ashs.org/page/Becomeamember!
You can also find the official webpage for Plants, People, Science at ashs.org/plantspeoplesciencepodcast, and we encourage you to send us feedback or suggestions at https://ashs.org/webinarpodcastsuggestion.
Podcast transcripts are available at https://plantspeoplescience.buzzsprout.com.
On LinkedIn find Sam Humphrey at linkedin.com/in/samson-humphrey. Curt Rom is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/curt-rom-611085134/. Lena Wilson is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lena-wilson-2531a5141/.
Thank you for listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Samson Humphrey (00:14):
Our guest today is ASHS member Dr Chad Miller
from Colorado State University.
He's an associate professor whohas a multidisciplinary
research program related tolandscape and greenhouse plant
production.
We chose to interview himbecause he's one of the ASHS's
2024 career award winners,meaning he was recognized for
his outstanding contributions inhis field.
We also wanted to talk withChad because he writes many
(00:37):
papers and hosts conferenceworkshops and frequently speaks
on how we can be better teachersfor horticulture students.
Let's give this interview alisten.
Good morning, Dr Miller.
(01:00):
Thank you for joining us.
Chad Miller (01:02):
Thanks, glad to be here.
This is exciting.
Samson Humphrey (01:06):
For our listeners.
Could you please introduceyourself?
Chad Miller (01:09):
Yes, I'm Dr Chad Miller.
I'm an associate professor atColorado State University.
Samson Humphrey (01:16):
What do you do there?
Chad Miller (01:18):
Lots of things depending on the day, right?
So I have a three-wayappointment.
If we think academically, Ihave a research, teaching and
extension appointment, basicallyabout even across the board,
and so not only do I teachresearch and extension, but
embedded in that is the directorof the trial garden.
(01:41):
So CSU has a pretty large,prominent trial garden and I'm
the director of that as well.
Samson Humphrey (01:46):
So the reason we reached out to you is because
the ASHS has a very robustawards program that recognizes
the best publications in ourjournals in multiple disciplines
and recently you received anaward for the outstanding
education Journal publicationfrom the ASHS.
So we're really excited to readthis paper and do you think you
(02:10):
could describe what it wasabout?
Chad Miller (02:14):
Yes, yes, sure, sam .
So, yes, I was pleasantlysurprised, honestly, to have
received that.
So it's a great honor to berecognized with I know others
who have won it and to be ableto be recognized on their level.
So the paper was related tosome work that I had done at
K-State and it's transferringover here to Colorado State.
(02:35):
So, as I had mentioned, I teachID courses and I work on, you
know, additional skills in theclassroom besides just plant
identification skills, but someof the soft skills, if you will
like making presentations andconversational skills and
critical thinking, of course,and so the paper focuses on
(02:58):
developing student trade shows,right, and so I have this.
Several ideas that kind of cametogether.
So where's the trade show partfit in?
Well, I remember going to likeCultivate or other trade shows
and as a student you'd bewalking around, you're trying to
absorb information, and Ialways felt sort of awkward
because they'll see your namebadge and it says students, so
(03:21):
I'm not necessarily theircustomer, I'm not going to be
giving them money, so it's.
I found it awkward and I'mpretty personable, I think um
found it awkward to like enterin a conversation with somebody
at a trade show and then liketry to leave the conversation.
So I was like that always kindof made a challenge for me.
So that's the trade show side.
And I was like we're doingthese presentations in class.
(03:43):
Like I always like students, soI obviously pick the plants in
the class, but I want studentsto also engage and so there
might be a plant that they arereally interested in and would
like to share with the class.
And so one of the first coupleof semesters that I was teaching
it was for 375 landscape plantstoo we did a very typical like
(04:05):
all right, I want you to pickyour genus.
I opened it pretty wide pick agenus.
It didn't have to be a specific, you know genus specific.
Up that very narrow, I saidpick a genus, um, and it didn't
have to necessarily be you knowone that would grow in Kansas.
I really just wanted people tobe appreciative plants.
So they picked this genus andthey would do a very typical
like paper on it and then theywould give a standup
(04:27):
presentation in front of theclass.
You know like a 10, 12 minutewith three minutes of question,
very similar to, you know, aprofessional sort of talk.
Well, in a class of about 48 or50, that gets to be a lot of
presentations and in one classperiod, you know, you know, if
you're lucky, you get throughsix or seven, if, if, if, you
have a lot of questions, and sothat carried on for almost three
(04:50):
weeks, you know, and that getsto be burdensome.
So I got brainstormed.
I was like, well, what if welike combine the trade show sort
of a thing?
And I had a couple uh, I had agood TA at the time and we, we
brainstormed it and the idea was, well, they could still pick
their genus, but let's work onsome of these other skills of
like entering into conversationand making time management,
(05:13):
making sure you get around theroom.
So we could actually do in oneclass period like eight or 10
students and they and they getcreative.
I usually have creativity as amajor component to all my
courses.
I want people to really usetheir creativity, whatever that
means to them.
And so we still got, you know,they still picked the genus and
(05:35):
they still did the report on it.
But then they had to createlike a trade show display and
try to quote, unquote, selltheir product which selling it
was just talking about theirproduct to their colleagues that
would, you know, meander aroundthe classroom and look at their
posters or their booth, if youwill, um, and I always tried to
encourage them to.
I would help them get plants ifthey needed.
(05:57):
You know, um, uh, displays orum, you know, I had students
that would create like cake popsfor Allium.
Right, they'd dress them up andlook like Allium.
So that was kind of the thinkingbehind.
It was like all right, so wecould work on some of these soft
skills.
We could work on stillpresenting information, but in a
(06:18):
whole different, not thetypical in front of the
classroom.
You know, after the first groupof them are over, people are
now bored with it.
So and so we implemented it andit was very well received, and
so that's where we decided totake data and student
perceptions on it.
Did they like this kind offormat?
Did they feel like they stilllearned as much as they would
(06:40):
with a traditional sort ofpresentation?
So we implemented that severalyears and, depending on the year
, if we could get another, I hadother faculty walk by the
classroom from other departmentsand go what's going on in here?
And they would just stop andlook around and I would invite
(07:00):
another faculty or classes andthey could experience the
student presentations as well.
So that's, that's kind of thethe gist of the paper.
And man, there were somestudents that just got all
creative like built small fences, just like you would think in a
trade show, right, like theybuilt a really cool display and,
(07:22):
and, and then, uh, and then ofcourse there were others that it
was a simple poster board andthat's fine, um, but they, they
were great and actually a small,a smaller portion of their
grade was was on creativity.
Some of them would just do a,you know, a straight up poster
board display and if, if itwasn't colorful, um, and and as
(07:42):
creative, they just didn't getthe highest score, but it
wouldn't ever break their gradeper se.
I didn't want that to be themajor factor.
I wanted them to learn aboutplants.
Curt Rom (07:51):
Quite frankly, it's a very intriguing teaching
technique and learning technique.
So you know, commonly I thinkin horticulture and a lot of our
technical and sciencedisciplines, we're very driven
by the content.
You have to know the content,you have to know the plants.
But it seems that you haveintroduced some other really
(08:15):
important learning objectivesand learning outcomes.
So, again, if you had to kindof describe that, what would you
and how would you prioritizethe learning outcomes or
learning objectives that youhave for this particular
exercise?
Obviously, content knowing theplants, you said, is part of it.
(08:35):
But you've given some of theother criteria.
Now I have a follow up questionas well.
Chad Miller (08:41):
Yes, yes.
So I would say a couple of theother learning outcomes from
this.
So, as the presenter, theywould, they would, um, do
professionalism right.
They would have to lookprofessional, they'd have to be
able to talk to their audience.
In this whole time I was goingaround assessing them on their
presentation skills.
So it paralleled very similarto the, to the typical, you know
(09:03):
, in front of the classroom.
A second outcome was peerreview Right, so we do it
sometimes when students aresitting there just observing up
front, but every studentactually had to go around to
every booth and evaluate theircolleagues, and then I would
collect those and the colleagueswould see them anonymously what
(09:26):
their colleagues were saying.
So, in that terms, evaluation,self-evaluation, but also
responding to others' evaluationwas part of the learning
outcome here, and then thecreativity side of it.
So there were several factorsthat came out of this that were
(09:49):
not necessarily a typical juststraight run classroom sort of
approach to it.
Curt Rom (09:56):
Yeah, it sounds very multidimensional, which I think
is probably what distinguishesyou as a faculty member and a
quality professor, teaching,instructor, that you're not just
driving in.
You need to know 210 Latinnames, right, but these other
(10:18):
skills that actually are goingto make your students employable
and functional professionals.
Chad Miller (10:25):
Yes, yes, the thing I would add to that, and so
several of the things that I'vepublished or, you know, done
like scholarship of teaching andlearning, on again having the
heavy concentration onidentification courses have
always, you know, many of youhave probably had them right and
you just mentioned, you know,knowing Latin and spelling for a
couple hundred plants.
(10:46):
It can get very monotonous veryquickly in the course and it
becomes sort of that almost well, not almost for many becomes a
rote memorization.
It moves from learning tomemorization and we lose some of
that ability in there, and soit's taken me a while.
Actually I've moved away fromquantity to more of the quality
(11:08):
and I might hear from some ofour listeners about this, but I
will certainly enter in theconversation about it actually
learn and be able to use otherlearning techniques, the
creativity, then amassing anumber of plants and moving to
(11:30):
that more memorization side, andso that, coupled with getting
making the class moreinteresting, right, because you
can easily get towards themiddle of semester and as you
keep learning this, it becomesvery cyclical, and so I was
always looking for those otherways to implement projects or
other learning styles that we'restill learning about plants or
(11:53):
learning about morphology orfamilies or whatever it might be
, but also not doing the samething over.
And I might inject here, like Ilike having fun in the
classroom actually, and I thinkall too often we lose sight of
having a more relaxed, funatmosphere, which I think helps
(12:14):
with that, with an ID course,especially as we really get into
the trenches of the semester.
Curt Rom (12:19):
Yeah, you know, I agree with that.
You know, my own philosophy isis that if learning is not
enjoyable and it's force feeding, uh it, you know it really does
need to be enjoyable.
Let me have one more follow upquestion, samson, and I'll let
you.
I can see you have got somequestions too.
Uh, so you mentioned that youhave peer review.
(12:40):
The students are actuallyevaluating themselves.
I assume you give them somekind of a rubric.
How do they deal with that?
I mean, I think in myexperience peer evaluation is
something students almostthey're a little intimidated
about.
How do you approach it so thatit becomes meaningful for both
the evaluator as well as thestudent that's being evaluated?
Chad Miller (13:04):
Yep.
No, that's a great question,kurt.
It can be awkward and it can bechallenging and it can be
frustrating.
It can be enjoyable all thefeelings and I think for me, as
I found my way through theactivity, doing it a few times.
Yes, we gave a rubric.
It was a basic, you know, onethrough five sort of rating
(13:25):
system of like what is poorversus what is really good.
And so, before we even enteredinto the you know the actual
trade shows, you know commencingwe did go through the rubric.
I shared the you know the slipsthat they would all be
evaluating on and tried to givethem ideas of what a zero means
or zero, or one or a five meansand the why.
(13:48):
And I approach this the sameway as I do teaching evaluations
with students in some level ofconstructive criticism.
Constructive feedback is goingto be extremely helpful for not
only the party you're giving itto, but for yourself throughout
the rest of your life, right,whether it's in your job, at
home or whatever you're doing.
Like it's fine to have athoughtful opinion.
(14:10):
And if you didn't like it, whydidn't you like it?
Or what was it about it thatwas so good, right?
Like, give us some of the nutsand bolts, the whys and the hows
or what it was.
Just don't say it was reallybad or it was really good.
That doesn't help the presenter, it doesn't help you.
And and help them to thinkthrough that when they're
grading it or when they'relooking at that, that trade show
(14:33):
booth like what is it, what isit that?
That helps you learn at thatbooth, kind of a thing, right?
So, um, and I think it's one ofthose things that just students
don't get that much experiencewith.
So when they do have to do thiscritiquing and criticism of
others, it's hard for them to dosometimes, and I think
(14:53):
sometimes you just have to putthe give them the guard rail
rails and tell them it's okay to, you know, pick something apart
but be constructive about it.
Give, give the person that willsee your, your, your
information, a reason and anability to get better, or an
ability or reason to patthemselves on the back why they
did a good job, kind of a thing.
And I think, more often thannot, students really rose to the
(15:17):
occasion and actually didprovide thoughtful comments on
their own.
Samson Humphrey (15:24):
And they've learned to hear and accept
criticism too, and they knowthat it's constructive criticism
because you've made such aspace for it on in my career.
Chad Miller (15:48):
This was probably you know, chipping my teeth at
and, and and sort of a challenge.
But now, every time I startclass in the semester, I try to
set the space, uh, what, whatthe space looks like in my
classroom, in my lab, and, uh,and, and students will.
Whoever have a class you knowprevious semester and then take,
they see some of the samebeginning slides in the semester
.
But I always put up a slidethat says I don't know, you know
(16:09):
, like IDK, and I always have abig, a big symbol of wrong
written on on a slide because Ilet the students know.
I will actually be prettystraightforward and say no,
that's a wrong answer, straightout, straight out of my mouth,
and um, or if they ask me aquestion and I really don't know
, I will say I don't know.
But based on you know, thinkingabout this, I really try to
(16:33):
create the culture, create thespace that we are in a learning
environment.
And if they already knew it,they probably wouldn't be
sitting in my class to beginwith.
Um, and if I already knew it Imight have a bigger, better
paying job.
I don't know.
But I try to create that spacethat we're here to learn and
it's okay to have that abilityto criticize, constructively
(16:57):
criticize and also receive itscholarship of teaching and
learning and your philosophy ofit.
Samson Humphrey (17:12):
I've had several really amazing
professors over the years andthey're incredible, but I don't
think it's super common, as faras I've seen, for amazing
professors to be publishing onwhat they're doing right, and so
I'm curious on what they'redoing right, and so I'm curious
what motivated you to write apaper about this technique and
the other amazing ways that youteach?
Chad Miller (17:35):
That's a great question If you want.
The straight answer was I wason an 80% teaching appointment,
a promotion and tenure track ata land-grant institution, right,
and so publishing is animportant part, and I had a
really good mentor there atKansas State as well and viewers
might know Dr Kim Williams atKansas State and so she was a
(17:58):
great colleague and mentor stilla mentor for me and she had
done a lot of work in thescholarship of teaching and
learning space, and I hadseveral other colleagues at
K-State as well that were greatin the scholarship of teaching
and learning.
And so I landed in a culturethat respected, appreciated,
expected scholarship of teachingand learning, not only in our
(18:21):
department but also at thecollege level.
Our associate dean of teaching,don Boggs, was very supportive
of it but also was demanding inthe sense of when you went
through your promotion andtenure process, if you had a
very significant teachingappointment, there was a need
(18:41):
for a demonstrable scholarshipof teaching and learning or at
at least, at the very least,some level of scholarly teaching
.
And so so I landed in a culturethat that was.
That was the culture, and so Iagain kind of going back to the
previous, you know childhoodstory.
(19:01):
Knowing I was a teacher, I, Iembraced it, uh, and I would
actually say, as I wasprogressing through my graduate
degree program, um, I also knewthat I might land in a, in a
faculty position that has someteaching responsibility.
And so I, I, I put a uheducation faculty on my
(19:24):
committee.
Um, it's going through my PhD,which is not typical.
Oftentimes it's verydisciplinary oriented.
But I personally thought, ifI'm going to have some
expectation of teaching in thefuture whatever that was 20, 30,
or 80% that it might be helpfulto have some nuts and bolts of
(19:44):
teaching.
And I did.
I took three basic courses ingrad school One was curriculum
development, one was teachingscience, and then I'm drawing a
blank on the third one.
But I felt that I should atleast try to prepare myself for
being successful in the position.
And then I landed at K-Statewith very supportive programs,
(20:08):
people, expectations, theculture.
Curt Rom (20:14):
So you know you have approached not only your
horticulture discipline as ascience, you've approached the
scholarship of teaching as ascience.
So in this particular paper, inother papers that you've had,
when I read it it wasn't aone-off.
So how many years did you dothis to see how it worked?
(20:34):
You refined it and can you giveus from the paper what you know
, what the data told us, whatdata did you collect and what
are the take-home messages?
You know I'm an educator, chad.
I need to know this because Iwant to improve my teaching.
So tell me what I need to know,what worked, and if something
didn't work I know you didn'tpublish that, but you can tell
(20:57):
me that too- yes, no, that's agreat question, kurt.
Chad Miller (21:02):
So, yes, many of the things I've published I've
tried to do more than you knowpublish data on more than one
semester or one offering of thecourse, with the idea that in
the background, at some level,repetitions would be helpful to
really try to draw someconclusions on certain
activities and I'd say, morebroadly speaking, for the
(21:24):
scholarship of teaching andlearning.
I'm still learning about this,I'm still learning about, you
know, learning itself and andand understanding my methods and
my approaches into class, inthe classroom, with activities,
um and so in, in particular withthe, with the trade show
publication, um, a couple ofthings that are are kind of
(21:45):
consistent through all thepublications.
I look at perception fromstudents, because that's a big
part of implementing a projectis do students really react to
this in the positive sense?
If they're really not reactingto it positively, it's probably
not going to be at least leadingus down the road of potentially
learning, and so that's usuallyperception in the activities or
(22:09):
the implementation of anyproject.
And so with the tradepublication, there was a lot of
satisfaction from the students.
It was.
Comments were like it's achange of pace, more relaxed
rather than the pressures ofbeing up front of you know your
colleagues in a very formalpresentation style which they
(22:33):
get more often than not.
That experience through othercourses and so the perception of
the activity was very positivethrough all this.
And then if you toss in studentsgetting really creative and
bringing in cake pops or youknow cupcakes that look like a
Venus flytrap or whatever itmight be, that just really adds
(22:55):
to it.
Anytime you add food to the mix, right Like that just makes
class appropriate and so theactual learning.
So then we start looking atlike pre and post.
I usually typically will do apre-activity assessment on a
specific part of the knowledgeof a certain group of plants or
(23:16):
whatever it might be, and thentry to do the post-activity to
see if their perception hasincreased or they're learning
what they perceive as they'relearning.
So there's been a few projectswhere it hasn't really looked at
specific grade improvement perse but perception of learning
through that as well and so thatas I grow in the space, those
(23:38):
are things that I'm looking todo better with of looking at the
actual grade assessment and seeif we see improvements with
that.
Samson Humphrey (23:50):
That is so cool .
I really it's reallyinteresting to hear you talk
about all the ways that you'retrying to understand student
learning from a deeperperspective.
You must have faced a lot ofchallenges on the way.
Do any come to mind?
Chad Miller (24:12):
Do any come to mind ?
Yes, just learning the wholespace myself, because we do a
lot of things that we just like,obviously, observe other
faculty how they teach, or youknow mentors growing, you know
going through college and such,just observing and now, as I,
you know, developed into ateacher and into that space,
looking back and seeing howfaculty and you know, for
(24:32):
example, dr Ferris taught acourse, it makes a little more
sense, right.
But moving into it, on my ownside of like, how do you
implement?
And on the implementation side,basic challenge was getting IRB
down right, the wholeinstitutional review board
process, and that alone can be achallenge.
(24:55):
And I'll speak especially on myfirsthand example of I will be
thinking of something on the wayin today, right, and be like,
oh my gosh, that'd be amazing todo this activity on Thursday.
Right, I have two days to likeimplement it because I can't
wait until next semester to doit.
Right.
But then it's like, oh, I needIRB approval if I'm going to
(25:20):
really start collecting certainpieces of data or how I'm going
to present it.
So there's been times I'm likeChad, write that idea down and
maybe implement it, get a chipyour teeth on it, so I I have a
better understanding forsubmitting my IRB, like I can
refine it.
So I'd say that's one of thechallenges I learned early on is
(25:41):
the whole planning process.
Um, in academics and you're notonly planning for the like, is
my class on the line at them, oryou know line schedule for next
fall, or, yeah, next fallalready?
Um, and what times and whatlabs, right, we're operating six
to eight to nine months out.
But even doing that with my,with my uh courses and adding
(26:02):
scholarship of teaching andlearning, is like, oh, irb, and
it's not the quickest, simplestprocess, especially if there's
one thing that they have aquestion about and it goes back
and forth.
And so, long story short, theIRB has been one of those like
early on.
If it wasn't in my radarimmediately, it was like, oh man
, I got to wait on that.
(26:23):
Other challenges is justfiguring out how to do the
science side of it, like theactual evaluation of it, and
methods and materials, or moreof the methods, excuse me of how
to do it and how to really likeextract.
Are they learning or are theynot learning?
And that's still an ongoingthing for me.
Curt Rom (26:47):
You know you're talking about student learning.
In your career have you seenchanges in students and how
they're learning and how we haveto adapt teaching techniques to
that?
Has it changed much during yourcareer with students' behavior
(27:07):
and learning styles in theclassroom?
Chad Miller (27:10):
Yes, how long does this podcast go for?
No, just kidding.
Curt Rom (27:15):
I'm going to give you two minutes.
Chad Miller (27:18):
I would say even in my short tenure I have seen
some level of change and I, youknow, I chat with my colleagues
back at K-State and here as wellto see if that's somewhat level
of normal.
But I think, especially sinceCOVID time and we're still
figuring out at some level whatthis new learning is here and I
(27:44):
try to parse it out because Iswitched from K-State to
Colorado State just after thepandemic.
So part of it for me islearning the new culture of
students that I have here atColorado State versus the
culture of students at K-State.
But I would say, over my time,this shift to a more interest or
(28:06):
dependence of onlineopportunity and that's really a
space that wasn't me comingthrough college and wasn't me
early in my teaching.
I really appreciate theface-to-face, the interaction
and get to see them on a almostdaily basis.
And so after COVID and the lastfew years for sure, just the
(28:30):
challenge of what group wants itto be online and what group
doesn't want it to be online.
And then the part in between,or sometimes it almost feels
like when it's convenientthey'll be there in person, but
then it's not.
But I also try to take a stepback and realize the students
(28:52):
that we currently have in ourprograms.
It's not the same as it was evenwhen I was an undergraduate.
For example, I've had many casesthat, like at K-State, I was an
academic advisor at the sametime.
So I would advise upwards of 40,30 to 40 students in a semester
, 40 on the high end.
But to learn, you know, have aconversation like so yeah, I'm
(29:16):
working a part-time job and I'llbe like so, how many hours is
your part-time?
And some of them wereapproaching 30 hours and I'm
going.
That's a bit beyond a part-timejob when they're trying to
balance 30 hours of work plus 15credit hours in a semester and
if they're struggling in a class.
So I try to step back andunderstand where our students
(29:38):
are at right now in paying forcollege, raising families, all
the above.
Not that it didn't happenbefore, but my perception is we
have a large contingent ofstudents that are that are
working simultaneously, have alot of irons in the fire, and so
how do you, how do I make theclassroom or the, the, the, the
(30:00):
class experience the best, right, and they can still learn.
But also I can appreciate thatlife is happening right, like
life happens at the same time.
Samson Humphrey (30:14):
It's really cool to hear you talk about this
and, like I, I can feel I cansense how important and how
meaningful this is to you andthat you I can.
It feels like you really umknow the weight that is on your
shoulders with these students,like shaping their lives around,
(30:36):
the advice you give them andthe teaching they receive from
you.
Chad Miller (30:40):
Thanks.
I mean, when I go into aclassroom, I do tell students.
I realize I would love for myclass to be the most important
thing in your life and Irecognize that it's not the most
important thing for most thingsevery day, but I do have
passion in my course.
And then when you're here andin this time space, like I would
(31:02):
like you to devote it to thatkind of a thing but also really
respect that life is going tohappen.
When, when, when you have tomake that choice to go skiing,
that's fine.
Those are, those are going tobe choices you make and I think
it's just part of just beingstraight forward, open, honest
conversation.
I think not just students, Ithink most people just respect
that.
Right, like, you're going totell me you're going to miss
(31:24):
class for skiing, I'm like, ok,have fun, but you, there will be
a consequence Either you missthe quiz or you miss the points
or the content, and that's up toyou, right, and it doesn't.
I don't pass the judgment onthat.
That's life.
You make those decisions andthat will happen for the rest of
your life, right, and I trulywant them to learn and I'm truly
(31:46):
here to help.
It does make things complicatedat times, when you know when
life does happen and you make anexception for a student, but I
I feel that's more that that iswhat we can do for them.
Samson Humphrey (32:02):
My last question is in just a few words
what is what is most rewardingto you as being a teacher?
Chad Miller (32:14):
Seeing students and people be successful, like like
it's as people have said, yousee light bulbs turn on, or like
you see people make theconnections of of what we just
talked about for the last threeor four weeks, or just the last
day for that matter, to see themto put that together and then
(32:34):
to be successful, to see youknow former students, you know
I've had a couple.
We do a.
Here's an example we have akind of an in-house career fair
here and and so we have, and ourdepartment is horticulture and
landscape architecture, so it'sa wide swath of of horticulture
industry here.
Um, we had a firm come in andthere was this girl that was at
(33:00):
the at their table and this waslike my first year here at
Colorado state and I'm like man,she looks really familiar and I
went and like I was just wasn'tplacing it long story short I
had that student at K state in.
Uh, I taught a section or twofor landscape architecture
program when the faculty was onsabbatic, but that student was
like, hey, chad, I remember youand it was like that whole, like
(33:23):
I saw them being successful ina firm here in Colorado and you
know several other students overtime and you know whether it's
a ASHS and or that sort of thing.
One of my colleagues is my was,was, is was my first graduate
student, dr Carver, uh, and so Iget to work right next to him.
Um, and so to answer yourquestion is to see people be
(33:45):
successful to, to, to usehorticulture and if they don't
use horticulture, at the veryleast, you know, be a successful
person.
That's what's really rewarding.
Curt Rom (33:59):
You know Chad.
This has been a delightfulconversation.
I feel like your students arereally fortunate that you're
approaching your teaching as ascholarship, as a discipline,
and you're being thoughtfulabout that.
I'm sure your students arebenefiting from it, just like
those of us that get to readyour publications.
(34:21):
Thanks for sharing those things.
So you're teaching yourstudents and they benefit from
it.
But from those of us, the otherteachers out there that are
reading about things that areworking, thanks for being my
teacher too.
Chad Miller (34:39):
Well, I thank you and that's what I learned from
other teachers, right, likethat's the thing about when we
go to like the conference orwhen we have like in-house, you
know, teaching and learningopportunities.
It's learning from the othersand you're like, oh my gosh, I
could do part of that in myclass, or that's the nugget I
(34:59):
could try over here.
You know, even if it's over ananimal science and a nutrition
course or something like that orwhatever it might be, I always
find where there's anapplicability and so, yeah, I
learned from you all and it's anhonor to be able to hear that I
(35:23):
am helping others learn as well.
Samson Humphrey (35:23):
Chad, thank you for doing what you do and thank
you so much for joining us onthe podcast.
Chad Miller (35:28):
Thank you, it's been great.
I really, really appreciate itand I look forward to more
interaction and ASHS andteaching and learning with
everybody.
Samson Humphrey (36:05):
That was such a wonderful conversation.
That was so much fun to hear aprofessor talk about his
philosophy.
I've had many wonderfulprofessors but usually they
don't talk so much about thethought that goes into their
class design or their philosophyfor what they want to
prioritize.
I just I loved thatconversation.
What did you think, kurt?
Curt Rom (36:24):
Yeah, I really enjoyed it too.
You know, as a a faculty memberthat's been teaching for 40
years and even when I was astudent, you know, and even when
I was a student you know,inspired teaching inspires and
motivates students.
I really really enjoyed whatChad was saying and the way he's
thought this through and hetries things and some of these
(36:47):
ideas.
But it's wonderful because theexperiences that he's giving in
the classroom probably motivatesstudents.
It encourages and empowersstudents and all the time these
faculty members and professorslike Chad, they're coming up
with novel ideas for teachingthat are being developed inside
(37:09):
of our discipline and they helpprepare students for the real
world and to help preparestudents for the real world.
Samson Humphrey (37:15):
Absolutely, that's a really great point.
The creativity, like the factthat Dr Miller is being creative
with his classroom design,encourages his students to be
creative and I don't knowthere's something about that.
I really I don't think scienceis seen as like a particularly
creative profession.
Science is seen as like aparticularly creative profession
(37:37):
, but I really love the littlepart, the little parts of
science that have creativity atthe core of them and that's what
he's encouraging in thesestudents.
So for our listeners to readmore about this topic, you can
check out Dr Miller's paperClassroom Trade Show an
Alternative to TraditionalClassroom Presentations in an
Undergraduate PlantIdentification Course, which is
(38:00):
published in Hort Technology,one of the open source
peer-reviewed journals by theAmerican Society for
Horticultural Science.
Chad Miller has also held manyconference workshops over the
years.
I've been lucky enough to joina couple of them.
He talks about all sorts ofexciting topics in teaching,
like integrating game designinto study materials for
students.
So if you're signing up for theconference this year, keep an
(38:23):
eye out for other awesomeworkshops on teaching.
Links to Dr Miller's articleand to his other work will be in
the show notes.
Curt Rom (38:31):
If this interview resonates with you, I recommend
renewing your membership orjoining the American Society for
Horticulture Science and youcan be part of interest groups
like the Teaching MethodsInterest Group and take a look
at the section of our ASHSjournal, Hort Technology.
We have a special section juston teaching technology section
(38:57):
just on teaching technology.
If you'd like more informationabout the American Society for
Horticulture Science in general,go to our website, ashsorg.
This is Kurt Rome and SamsonHumphrey with Plants, People,
Science.
Thanks for joining us.
We'll see you, Samson.
See you, Kurt, for joining us.
(39:17):
We'll see you, Samson.
See you, Kurt.
The ASHS podcast Plants, Peopleand Science is made possible by
member dues and volunteerism.
Please go to ashsorg to learnmore.
(39:39):
If you're not already a memberof the ASHS, we invite you to
join.
Ashs is a not-for-profit andyour donations are tax
deductible.
Samson Humphrey (39:43):
This episode was hosted by Samson Humphrey
and Kurt Rome.
Special thanks to our audioengineer, andrew Sheldorf, our
research specialists Lena Wilsonand Andrew Sheldorf, our ASHS
support team, sarah Powell andSally Murphy, and our musician
John Clark.
Thanks for listening.
Thank you.
Our guest today is ASHS member Dr Chad Miller
from Colorado State University.
He's an associate professor whohas a multidisciplinary
research program related tolandscape and greenhouse plant
production.
We chose to interview himbecause he's one of the ASHS's
2024 career award winners,meaning he was recognized for
his outstanding contributions inhis field.
We also wanted to talk withChad because he writes many
(00:37):
papers and hosts conferenceworkshops and frequently speaks
on how we can be better teachersfor horticulture students.
Let's give this interview alisten.
Good morning, Dr Miller.
(01:00):
Thank you for joining us.
Chad Miller (01:02):
Thanks, glad to be here.
This is exciting.
Samson Humphrey (01:06):
For our listeners.
Could you please introduceyourself?
Chad Miller (01:09):
Yes, I'm Dr Chad Miller.
I'm an associate professor atColorado State University.
Samson Humphrey (01:16):
What do you do there?
Chad Miller (01:18):
Lots of things depending on the day, right?
So I have a three-wayappointment.
If we think academically, Ihave a research, teaching and
extension appointment, basicallyabout even across the board,
and so not only do I teachresearch and extension, but
embedded in that is the directorof the trial garden.
(01:41):
So CSU has a pretty large,prominent trial garden and I'm
the director of that as well.
Samson Humphrey (01:46):
So the reason we reached out to you is because
the ASHS has a very robustawards program that recognizes
the best publications in ourjournals in multiple disciplines
and recently you received anaward for the outstanding
education Journal publicationfrom the ASHS.
So we're really excited to readthis paper and do you think you
(02:10):
could describe what it wasabout?
Chad Miller (02:14):
Yes, yes, sure, sam .
So, yes, I was pleasantlysurprised, honestly, to have
received that.
So it's a great honor to berecognized with I know others
who have won it and to be ableto be recognized on their level.
So the paper was related tosome work that I had done at
K-State and it's transferringover here to Colorado State.
(02:35):
So, as I had mentioned, I teachID courses and I work on, you
know, additional skills in theclassroom besides just plant
identification skills, but someof the soft skills, if you will
like making presentations andconversational skills and
critical thinking, of course,and so the paper focuses on
(02:58):
developing student trade shows,right, and so I have this.
Several ideas that kind of cametogether.
So where's the trade show partfit in?
Well, I remember going to likeCultivate or other trade shows
and as a student you'd bewalking around, you're trying to
absorb information, and Ialways felt sort of awkward
because they'll see your namebadge and it says students, so
(03:21):
I'm not necessarily theircustomer, I'm not going to be
giving them money, so it's.
I found it awkward and I'mpretty personable, I think um
found it awkward to like enterin a conversation with somebody
at a trade show and then liketry to leave the conversation.
So I was like that always kindof made a challenge for me.
So that's the trade show side.
And I was like we're doingthese presentations in class.
(03:43):
Like I always like students, soI obviously pick the plants in
the class, but I want studentsto also engage and so there
might be a plant that they arereally interested in and would
like to share with the class.
And so one of the first coupleof semesters that I was teaching
it was for 375 landscape plantstoo we did a very typical like
(04:05):
all right, I want you to pickyour genus.
I opened it pretty wide pick agenus.
It didn't have to be a specific, you know genus specific.
Up that very narrow, I saidpick a genus, um, and it didn't
have to necessarily be you knowone that would grow in Kansas.
I really just wanted people tobe appreciative plants.
So they picked this genus andthey would do a very typical
like paper on it and then theywould give a standup
(04:27):
presentation in front of theclass.
You know like a 10, 12 minutewith three minutes of question,
very similar to, you know, aprofessional sort of talk.
Well, in a class of about 48 or50, that gets to be a lot of
presentations and in one classperiod, you know, you know, if
you're lucky, you get throughsix or seven, if, if, if, you
have a lot of questions, and sothat carried on for almost three
(04:50):
weeks, you know, and that getsto be burdensome.
So I got brainstormed.
I was like, well, what if welike combine the trade show sort
of a thing?
And I had a couple uh, I had agood TA at the time and we, we
brainstormed it and the idea was, well, they could still pick
their genus, but let's work onsome of these other skills of
like entering into conversationand making time management,
(05:13):
making sure you get around theroom.
So we could actually do in oneclass period like eight or 10
students and they and they getcreative.
I usually have creativity as amajor component to all my
courses.
I want people to really usetheir creativity, whatever that
means to them.
And so we still got, you know,they still picked the genus and
(05:35):
they still did the report on it.
But then they had to createlike a trade show display and
try to quote, unquote, selltheir product which selling it
was just talking about theirproduct to their colleagues that
would, you know, meander aroundthe classroom and look at their
posters or their booth, if youwill, um, and I always tried to
encourage them to.
I would help them get plants ifthey needed.
(05:57):
You know, um, uh, displays orum, you know, I had students
that would create like cake popsfor Allium.
Right, they'd dress them up andlook like Allium.
So that was kind of the thinkingbehind.
It was like all right, so wecould work on some of these soft
skills.
We could work on stillpresenting information, but in a
(06:18):
whole different, not thetypical in front of the
classroom.
You know, after the first groupof them are over, people are
now bored with it.
So and so we implemented it andit was very well received, and
so that's where we decided totake data and student
perceptions on it.
Did they like this kind offormat?
Did they feel like they stilllearned as much as they would
(06:40):
with a traditional sort ofpresentation?
So we implemented that severalyears and, depending on the year
, if we could get another, I hadother faculty walk by the
classroom from other departmentsand go what's going on in here?
And they would just stop andlook around and I would invite
(07:00):
another faculty or classes andthey could experience the
student presentations as well.
So that's, that's kind of thethe gist of the paper.
And man, there were somestudents that just got all
creative like built small fences, just like you would think in a
trade show, right, like theybuilt a really cool display and,
(07:22):
and, and then, uh, and then ofcourse there were others that it
was a simple poster board andthat's fine, um, but they, they
were great and actually a small,a smaller portion of their
grade was was on creativity.
Some of them would just do a,you know, a straight up poster
board display and if, if itwasn't colorful, um, and and as
(07:42):
creative, they just didn't getthe highest score, but it
wouldn't ever break their gradeper se.
I didn't want that to be themajor factor.
I wanted them to learn aboutplants.
Curt Rom (07:51):
Quite frankly, it's a very intriguing teaching
technique and learning technique.
So you know, commonly I thinkin horticulture and a lot of our
technical and sciencedisciplines, we're very driven
by the content.
You have to know the content,you have to know the plants.
But it seems that you haveintroduced some other really
(08:15):
important learning objectivesand learning outcomes.
So, again, if you had to kindof describe that, what would you
and how would you prioritizethe learning outcomes or
learning objectives that youhave for this particular
exercise?
Obviously, content knowing theplants, you said, is part of it.
(08:35):
But you've given some of theother criteria.
Now I have a follow up questionas well.
Chad Miller (08:41):
Yes, yes.
So I would say a couple of theother learning outcomes from
this.
So, as the presenter, theywould, they would, um, do
professionalism right.
They would have to lookprofessional, they'd have to be
able to talk to their audience.
In this whole time I was goingaround assessing them on their
presentation skills.
So it paralleled very similarto the, to the typical, you know
(09:03):
, in front of the classroom.
A second outcome was peerreview Right, so we do it
sometimes when students aresitting there just observing up
front, but every studentactually had to go around to
every booth and evaluate theircolleagues, and then I would
collect those and the colleagueswould see them anonymously what
(09:26):
their colleagues were saying.
So, in that terms, evaluation,self-evaluation, but also
responding to others' evaluationwas part of the learning
outcome here, and then thecreativity side of it.
So there were several factorsthat came out of this that were
(09:49):
not necessarily a typical juststraight run classroom sort of
approach to it.
Curt Rom (09:56):
Yeah, it sounds very multidimensional, which I think
is probably what distinguishesyou as a faculty member and a
quality professor, teaching,instructor, that you're not just
driving in.
You need to know 210 Latinnames, right, but these other
(10:18):
skills that actually are goingto make your students employable
and functional professionals.
Chad Miller (10:25):
Yes, yes, the thing I would add to that, and so
several of the things that I'vepublished or, you know, done
like scholarship of teaching andlearning, on again having the
heavy concentration onidentification courses have
always, you know, many of youhave probably had them right and
you just mentioned, you know,knowing Latin and spelling for a
couple hundred plants.
(10:46):
It can get very monotonous veryquickly in the course and it
becomes sort of that almost well, not almost for many becomes a
rote memorization.
It moves from learning tomemorization and we lose some of
that ability in there, and soit's taken me a while.
Actually I've moved away fromquantity to more of the quality
(11:08):
and I might hear from some ofour listeners about this, but I
will certainly enter in theconversation about it actually
learn and be able to use otherlearning techniques, the
creativity, then amassing anumber of plants and moving to
(11:30):
that more memorization side, andso that, coupled with getting
making the class moreinteresting, right, because you
can easily get towards themiddle of semester and as you
keep learning this, it becomesvery cyclical, and so I was
always looking for those otherways to implement projects or
other learning styles that we'restill learning about plants or
(11:53):
learning about morphology orfamilies or whatever it might be
, but also not doing the samething over.
And I might inject here, like Ilike having fun in the
classroom actually, and I thinkall too often we lose sight of
having a more relaxed, funatmosphere, which I think helps
(12:14):
with that, with an ID course,especially as we really get into
the trenches of the semester.
Curt Rom (12:19):
Yeah, you know, I agree with that.
You know, my own philosophy isis that if learning is not
enjoyable and it's force feeding, uh it, you know it really does
need to be enjoyable.
Let me have one more follow upquestion, samson, and I'll let
you.
I can see you have got somequestions too.
Uh, so you mentioned that youhave peer review.
(12:40):
The students are actuallyevaluating themselves.
I assume you give them somekind of a rubric.
How do they deal with that?
I mean, I think in myexperience peer evaluation is
something students almostthey're a little intimidated
about.
How do you approach it so thatit becomes meaningful for both
the evaluator as well as thestudent that's being evaluated?
Chad Miller (13:04):
Yep.
No, that's a great question,kurt.
It can be awkward and it can bechallenging and it can be
frustrating.
It can be enjoyable all thefeelings and I think for me, as
I found my way through theactivity, doing it a few times.
Yes, we gave a rubric.
It was a basic, you know, onethrough five sort of rating
(13:25):
system of like what is poorversus what is really good.
And so, before we even enteredinto the you know the actual
trade shows, you know commencingwe did go through the rubric.
I shared the you know the slipsthat they would all be
evaluating on and tried to givethem ideas of what a zero means
or zero, or one or a five meansand the why.
(13:48):
And I approach this the sameway as I do teaching evaluations
with students in some level ofconstructive criticism.
Constructive feedback is goingto be extremely helpful for not
only the party you're giving itto, but for yourself throughout
the rest of your life, right,whether it's in your job, at
home or whatever you're doing.
Like it's fine to have athoughtful opinion.
(14:10):
And if you didn't like it, whydidn't you like it?
Or what was it about it thatwas so good, right?
Like, give us some of the nutsand bolts, the whys and the hows
or what it was.
Just don't say it was reallybad or it was really good.
That doesn't help the presenter, it doesn't help you.
And and help them to thinkthrough that when they're
grading it or when they'relooking at that, that trade show
(14:33):
booth like what is it, what isit that?
That helps you learn at thatbooth, kind of a thing, right?
So, um, and I think it's one ofthose things that just students
don't get that much experiencewith.
So when they do have to do thiscritiquing and criticism of
others, it's hard for them to dosometimes, and I think
(14:53):
sometimes you just have to putthe give them the guard rail
rails and tell them it's okay to, you know, pick something apart
but be constructive about it.
Give, give the person that willsee your, your, your
information, a reason and anability to get better, or an
ability or reason to patthemselves on the back why they
did a good job, kind of a thing.
And I think, more often thannot, students really rose to the
(15:17):
occasion and actually didprovide thoughtful comments on
their own.
Samson Humphrey (15:24):
And they've learned to hear and accept
criticism too, and they knowthat it's constructive criticism
because you've made such aspace for it on in my career.
Chad Miller (15:48):
This was probably you know, chipping my teeth at
and, and and sort of a challenge.
But now, every time I startclass in the semester, I try to
set the space, uh, what, whatthe space looks like in my
classroom, in my lab, and, uh,and, and students will.
Whoever have a class you knowprevious semester and then take,
they see some of the samebeginning slides in the semester
.
But I always put up a slidethat says I don't know, you know
(16:09):
, like IDK, and I always have abig, a big symbol of wrong
written on on a slide because Ilet the students know.
I will actually be prettystraightforward and say no,
that's a wrong answer, straightout, straight out of my mouth,
and um, or if they ask me aquestion and I really don't know
, I will say I don't know.
But based on you know, thinkingabout this, I really try to
(16:33):
create the culture, create thespace that we are in a learning
environment.
And if they already knew it,they probably wouldn't be
sitting in my class to beginwith.
Um, and if I already knew it Imight have a bigger, better
paying job.
I don't know.
But I try to create that spacethat we're here to learn and
it's okay to have that abilityto criticize, constructively
(16:57):
criticize and also receive itscholarship of teaching and
learning and your philosophy ofit.
Samson Humphrey (17:12):
I've had several really amazing
professors over the years andthey're incredible, but I don't
think it's super common, as faras I've seen, for amazing
professors to be publishing onwhat they're doing right, and so
I'm curious on what they'redoing right, and so I'm curious
what motivated you to write apaper about this technique and
the other amazing ways that youteach?
Chad Miller (17:35):
That's a great question If you want.
The straight answer was I wason an 80% teaching appointment,
a promotion and tenure track ata land-grant institution, right,
and so publishing is animportant part, and I had a
really good mentor there atKansas State as well and viewers
might know Dr Kim Williams atKansas State and so she was a
(17:58):
great colleague and mentor stilla mentor for me and she had
done a lot of work in thescholarship of teaching and
learning space, and I hadseveral other colleagues at
K-State as well that were greatin the scholarship of teaching
and learning.
And so I landed in a culturethat respected, appreciated,
expected scholarship of teachingand learning, not only in our
(18:21):
department but also at thecollege level.
Our associate dean of teaching,don Boggs, was very supportive
of it but also was demanding inthe sense of when you went
through your promotion andtenure process, if you had a
very significant teachingappointment, there was a need
(18:41):
for a demonstrable scholarshipof teaching and learning or at
at least, at the very least,some level of scholarly teaching
.
And so so I landed in a culturethat that was.
That was the culture, and so Iagain kind of going back to the
previous, you know childhoodstory.
(19:01):
Knowing I was a teacher, I, Iembraced it, uh, and I would
actually say, as I wasprogressing through my graduate
degree program, um, I also knewthat I might land in a, in a
faculty position that has someteaching responsibility.
And so I, I, I put a uheducation faculty on my
(19:24):
committee.
Um, it's going through my PhD,which is not typical.
Oftentimes it's verydisciplinary oriented.
But I personally thought, ifI'm going to have some
expectation of teaching in thefuture whatever that was 20, 30,
or 80% that it might be helpfulto have some nuts and bolts of
(19:44):
teaching.
And I did.
I took three basic courses ingrad school One was curriculum
development, one was teachingscience, and then I'm drawing a
blank on the third one.
But I felt that I should atleast try to prepare myself for
being successful in the position.
And then I landed at K-Statewith very supportive programs,
(20:08):
people, expectations, theculture.
Curt Rom (20:14):
So you know you have approached not only your
horticulture discipline as ascience, you've approached the
scholarship of teaching as ascience.
So in this particular paper, inother papers that you've had,
when I read it it wasn't aone-off.
So how many years did you dothis to see how it worked?
(20:34):
You refined it and can you giveus from the paper what you know
, what the data told us, whatdata did you collect and what
are the take-home messages?
You know I'm an educator, chad.
I need to know this because Iwant to improve my teaching.
So tell me what I need to know,what worked, and if something
didn't work I know you didn'tpublish that, but you can tell
(20:57):
me that too- yes, no, that's agreat question, kurt.
Chad Miller (21:02):
So, yes, many of the things I've published I've
tried to do more than you knowpublish data on more than one
semester or one offering of thecourse, with the idea that in
the background, at some level,repetitions would be helpful to
really try to draw someconclusions on certain
activities and I'd say, morebroadly speaking, for the
(21:24):
scholarship of teaching andlearning.
I'm still learning about this,I'm still learning about, you
know, learning itself and andand understanding my methods and
my approaches into class, inthe classroom, with activities,
um and so in, in particular withthe, with the trade show
publication, um, a couple ofthings that are are kind of
(21:45):
consistent through all thepublications.
I look at perception fromstudents, because that's a big
part of implementing a projectis do students really react to
this in the positive sense?
If they're really not reactingto it positively, it's probably
not going to be at least leadingus down the road of potentially
learning, and so that's usuallyperception in the activities or
(22:09):
the implementation of anyproject.
And so with the tradepublication, there was a lot of
satisfaction from the students.
It was.
Comments were like it's achange of pace, more relaxed
rather than the pressures ofbeing up front of you know your
colleagues in a very formalpresentation style which they
(22:33):
get more often than not.
That experience through othercourses and so the perception of
the activity was very positivethrough all this.
And then if you toss in studentsgetting really creative and
bringing in cake pops or youknow cupcakes that look like a
Venus flytrap or whatever itmight be, that just really adds
(22:55):
to it.
Anytime you add food to the mix, right Like that just makes
class appropriate and so theactual learning.
So then we start looking atlike pre and post.
I usually typically will do apre-activity assessment on a
specific part of the knowledgeof a certain group of plants or
(23:16):
whatever it might be, and thentry to do the post-activity to
see if their perception hasincreased or they're learning
what they perceive as they'relearning.
So there's been a few projectswhere it hasn't really looked at
specific grade improvement perse but perception of learning
through that as well and so thatas I grow in the space, those
(23:38):
are things that I'm looking todo better with of looking at the
actual grade assessment and seeif we see improvements with
that.
Samson Humphrey (23:50):
That is so cool .
I really it's reallyinteresting to hear you talk
about all the ways that you'retrying to understand student
learning from a deeperperspective.
You must have faced a lot ofchallenges on the way.
Do any come to mind?
Chad Miller (24:12):
Do any come to mind ?
Yes, just learning the wholespace myself, because we do a
lot of things that we just like,obviously, observe other
faculty how they teach, or youknow mentors growing, you know
going through college and such,just observing and now, as I,
you know, developed into ateacher and into that space,
looking back and seeing howfaculty and you know, for
(24:32):
example, dr Ferris taught acourse, it makes a little more
sense, right.
But moving into it, on my ownside of like, how do you
implement?
And on the implementation side,basic challenge was getting IRB
down right, the wholeinstitutional review board
process, and that alone can be achallenge.
(24:55):
And I'll speak especially on myfirsthand example of I will be
thinking of something on the wayin today, right, and be like,
oh my gosh, that'd be amazing todo this activity on Thursday.
Right, I have two days to likeimplement it because I can't
wait until next semester to doit.
Right.
But then it's like, oh, I needIRB approval if I'm going to
(25:20):
really start collecting certainpieces of data or how I'm going
to present it.
So there's been times I'm likeChad, write that idea down and
maybe implement it, get a chipyour teeth on it, so I I have a
better understanding forsubmitting my IRB, like I can
refine it.
So I'd say that's one of thechallenges I learned early on is
(25:41):
the whole planning process.
Um, in academics and you're notonly planning for the like, is
my class on the line at them, oryou know line schedule for next
fall, or, yeah, next fallalready?
Um, and what times and whatlabs, right, we're operating six
to eight to nine months out.
But even doing that with my,with my uh courses and adding
(26:02):
scholarship of teaching andlearning, is like, oh, irb, and
it's not the quickest, simplestprocess, especially if there's
one thing that they have aquestion about and it goes back
and forth.
And so, long story short, theIRB has been one of those like
early on.
If it wasn't in my radarimmediately, it was like, oh man
, I got to wait on that.
(26:23):
Other challenges is justfiguring out how to do the
science side of it, like theactual evaluation of it, and
methods and materials, or moreof the methods, excuse me of how
to do it and how to really likeextract.
Are they learning or are theynot learning?
And that's still an ongoingthing for me.
Curt Rom (26:47):
You know you're talking about student learning.
In your career have you seenchanges in students and how
they're learning and how we haveto adapt teaching techniques to
that?
Has it changed much during yourcareer with students' behavior
(27:07):
and learning styles in theclassroom?
Chad Miller (27:10):
Yes, how long does this podcast go for?
No, just kidding.
Curt Rom (27:15):
I'm going to give you two minutes.
Chad Miller (27:18):
I would say even in my short tenure I have seen
some level of change and I, youknow, I chat with my colleagues
back at K-State and here as wellto see if that's somewhat level
of normal.
But I think, especially sinceCOVID time and we're still
figuring out at some level whatthis new learning is here and I
(27:44):
try to parse it out because Iswitched from K-State to
Colorado State just after thepandemic.
So part of it for me islearning the new culture of
students that I have here atColorado State versus the
culture of students at K-State.
But I would say, over my time,this shift to a more interest or
(28:06):
dependence of onlineopportunity and that's really a
space that wasn't me comingthrough college and wasn't me
early in my teaching.
I really appreciate theface-to-face, the interaction
and get to see them on a almostdaily basis.
And so after COVID and the lastfew years for sure, just the
(28:30):
challenge of what group wants itto be online and what group
doesn't want it to be online.
And then the part in between,or sometimes it almost feels
like when it's convenientthey'll be there in person, but
then it's not.
But I also try to take a stepback and realize the students
(28:52):
that we currently have in ourprograms.
It's not the same as it was evenwhen I was an undergraduate.
For example, I've had many casesthat, like at K-State, I was an
academic advisor at the sametime.
So I would advise upwards of 40,30 to 40 students in a semester
, 40 on the high end.
But to learn, you know, have aconversation like so yeah, I'm
(29:16):
working a part-time job and I'llbe like so, how many hours is
your part-time?
And some of them wereapproaching 30 hours and I'm
going.
That's a bit beyond a part-timejob when they're trying to
balance 30 hours of work plus 15credit hours in a semester and
if they're struggling in a class.
So I try to step back andunderstand where our students
(29:38):
are at right now in paying forcollege, raising families, all
the above.
Not that it didn't happenbefore, but my perception is we
have a large contingent ofstudents that are that are
working simultaneously, have alot of irons in the fire, and so
how do you, how do I make theclassroom or the, the, the, the
(30:00):
class experience the best, right, and they can still learn.
But also I can appreciate thatlife is happening right, like
life happens at the same time.
Samson Humphrey (30:14):
It's really cool to hear you talk about this
and, like I, I can feel I cansense how important and how
meaningful this is to you andthat you I can.
It feels like you really umknow the weight that is on your
shoulders with these students,like shaping their lives around,
(30:36):
the advice you give them andthe teaching they receive from
you.
Chad Miller (30:40):
Thanks.
I mean, when I go into aclassroom, I do tell students.
I realize I would love for myclass to be the most important
thing in your life and Irecognize that it's not the most
important thing for most thingsevery day, but I do have
passion in my course.
And then when you're here andin this time space, like I would
(31:02):
like you to devote it to thatkind of a thing but also really
respect that life is going tohappen.
When, when, when you have tomake that choice to go skiing,
that's fine.
Those are, those are going tobe choices you make and I think
it's just part of just beingstraight forward, open, honest
conversation.
I think not just students, Ithink most people just respect
that.
Right, like, you're going totell me you're going to miss
(31:24):
class for skiing, I'm like, ok,have fun, but you, there will be
a consequence Either you missthe quiz or you miss the points
or the content, and that's up toyou, right, and it doesn't.
I don't pass the judgment onthat.
That's life.
You make those decisions andthat will happen for the rest of
your life, right, and I trulywant them to learn and I'm truly
(31:46):
here to help.
It does make things complicatedat times, when you know when
life does happen and you make anexception for a student, but I
I feel that's more that that iswhat we can do for them.
Samson Humphrey (32:02):
My last question is in just a few words
what is what is most rewardingto you as being a teacher?
Chad Miller (32:14):
Seeing students and people be successful, like like
it's as people have said, yousee light bulbs turn on, or like
you see people make theconnections of of what we just
talked about for the last threeor four weeks, or just the last
day for that matter, to see themto put that together and then
(32:34):
to be successful, to see youknow former students, you know
I've had a couple.
We do a.
Here's an example we have akind of an in-house career fair
here and and so we have, and ourdepartment is horticulture and
landscape architecture, so it'sa wide swath of of horticulture
industry here.
Um, we had a firm come in andthere was this girl that was at
(33:00):
the at their table and this waslike my first year here at
Colorado state and I'm like man,she looks really familiar and I
went and like I was just wasn'tplacing it long story short I
had that student at K state in.
Uh, I taught a section or twofor landscape architecture
program when the faculty was onsabbatic, but that student was
like, hey, chad, I remember youand it was like that whole, like
(33:23):
I saw them being successful ina firm here in Colorado and you
know several other students overtime and you know whether it's
a ASHS and or that sort of thing.
One of my colleagues is my was,was, is was my first graduate
student, dr Carver, uh, and so Iget to work right next to him.
Um, and so to answer yourquestion is to see people be
(33:45):
successful to, to, to usehorticulture and if they don't
use horticulture, at the veryleast, you know, be a successful
person.
That's what's really rewarding.
Curt Rom (33:59):
You know Chad.
This has been a delightfulconversation.
I feel like your students arereally fortunate that you're
approaching your teaching as ascholarship, as a discipline,
and you're being thoughtfulabout that.
I'm sure your students arebenefiting from it, just like
those of us that get to readyour publications.
(34:21):
Thanks for sharing those things.
So you're teaching yourstudents and they benefit from
it.
But from those of us, the otherteachers out there that are
reading about things that areworking, thanks for being my
teacher too.
Chad Miller (34:39):
Well, I thank you and that's what I learned from
other teachers, right, likethat's the thing about when we
go to like the conference orwhen we have like in-house, you
know, teaching and learningopportunities.
It's learning from the othersand you're like, oh my gosh, I
could do part of that in myclass, or that's the nugget I
(34:59):
could try over here.
You know, even if it's over ananimal science and a nutrition
course or something like that orwhatever it might be, I always
find where there's anapplicability and so, yeah, I
learned from you all and it's anhonor to be able to hear that I
(35:23):
am helping others learn as well.
Samson Humphrey (35:23):
Chad, thank you for doing what you do and thank
you so much for joining us onthe podcast.
Chad Miller (35:28):
Thank you, it's been great.
I really, really appreciate itand I look forward to more
interaction and ASHS andteaching and learning with
everybody.
Samson Humphrey (36:05):
That was such a wonderful conversation.
That was so much fun to hear aprofessor talk about his
philosophy.
I've had many wonderfulprofessors but usually they
don't talk so much about thethought that goes into their
class design or their philosophyfor what they want to
prioritize.
I just I loved thatconversation.
What did you think, kurt?
Curt Rom (36:24):
Yeah, I really enjoyed it too.
You know, as a a faculty memberthat's been teaching for 40
years and even when I was astudent, you know, and even when
I was a student you know,inspired teaching inspires and
motivates students.
I really really enjoyed whatChad was saying and the way he's
thought this through and hetries things and some of these
(36:47):
ideas.
But it's wonderful because theexperiences that he's giving in
the classroom probably motivatesstudents.
It encourages and empowersstudents and all the time these
faculty members and professorslike Chad, they're coming up
with novel ideas for teachingthat are being developed inside
(37:09):
of our discipline and they helpprepare students for the real
world and to help preparestudents for the real world.
Samson Humphrey (37:15):
Absolutely, that's a really great point.
The creativity, like the factthat Dr Miller is being creative
with his classroom design,encourages his students to be
creative and I don't knowthere's something about that.
I really I don't think scienceis seen as like a particularly
creative profession.
Science is seen as like aparticularly creative profession
(37:37):
, but I really love the littlepart, the little parts of
science that have creativity atthe core of them and that's what
he's encouraging in thesestudents.
So for our listeners to readmore about this topic, you can
check out Dr Miller's paperClassroom Trade Show an
Alternative to TraditionalClassroom Presentations in an
Undergraduate PlantIdentification Course, which is
(38:00):
published in Hort Technology,one of the open source
peer-reviewed journals by theAmerican Society for
Horticultural Science.
Chad Miller has also held manyconference workshops over the
years.
I've been lucky enough to joina couple of them.
He talks about all sorts ofexciting topics in teaching,
like integrating game designinto study materials for
students.
So if you're signing up for theconference this year, keep an
(38:23):
eye out for other awesomeworkshops on teaching.
Links to Dr Miller's articleand to his other work will be in
the show notes.
Curt Rom (38:31):
If this interview resonates with you, I recommend
renewing your membership orjoining the American Society for
Horticulture Science and youcan be part of interest groups
like the Teaching MethodsInterest Group and take a look
at the section of our ASHSjournal, Hort Technology.
We have a special section juston teaching technology section
(38:57):
just on teaching technology.
If you'd like more informationabout the American Society for
Horticulture Science in general,go to our website, ashsorg.
This is Kurt Rome and SamsonHumphrey with Plants, People,
Science.
Thanks for joining us.
We'll see you, Samson.
See you, Kurt, for joining us.
(39:17):
We'll see you, Samson.
See you, Kurt.
The ASHS podcast Plants, Peopleand Science is made possible by
member dues and volunteerism.
Please go to ashsorg to learnmore.
(39:39):
If you're not already a memberof the ASHS, we invite you to
join.
Ashs is a not-for-profit andyour donations are tax
deductible.
Samson Humphrey (39:43):
This episode was hosted by Samson Humphrey
and Kurt Rome.
Special thanks to our audioengineer, andrew Sheldorf, our
research specialists Lena Wilsonand Andrew Sheldorf, our ASHS
support team, sarah Powell andSally Murphy, and our musician
John Clark.
Thanks for listening.
Thank you.
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