March 24, 2025 • 47 mins
Kevin Palmieri shares his journey from external success that left him empty to building a life of authentic growth and fulfillment through consistent boundaries. The founder and host of the Next Level University podcast reveals how organizing his life with clear boundaries has been the key to reaching nearly 2,000 episodes and sustained success.
• Treats podcasting like a 9-to-5 job with firm boundaries that prioritize productivity
• Sets and maintains boundaries despite potential discomfort or disappointment to others
• Values keeping promises to himself above pleasing others
• Believes building self-trust comes from consistently showing up for yourself
• Warns against social media comparison which shows only highlights, not reality
• Experienced suicidal thoughts despite external success markers
• Advocates for setting "embarrassingly small" goals rather than massive action
• Emphasizes alignment between goals and core values
• Describes his superpower as the ability to "suffer well" through challenges
• Maintains that most success comes from staying power and consistency
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of Playing Injured.
We have an old friend here, mrKevin Palmieri, the never-quit
kid.
He's a CSO, a founder host ofthe Next Level University
podcast, which is a global top100 podcast.
Almost at 2,000 episodes now,right.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
We're, we just recorded.
I literally just recorded one.
I think it was 1978, rightbefore this.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
That is crazy.
You guys are crushing it and,like I said, been following you
from afar and the advice thatyou share with me as an early
podcast host.
I never forgot it, soappreciate you coming back on
the show.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I appreciate you having me man.
I told Josh behind the scenes.
I said when I saw this on mycalendar I was like whoa, this
is going to be a throwback andI'm glad you're still plugging
along.
I hope all is well with you andI'm excited to chat and see how
we've evolved over the last.
What did we say five years?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, five years or so Time has flown by and I think
, obviously for you and I wouldlove to ask you the consistency
of it all, right, Like wementioned, you guys are almost
at 2,000 episodes, right, and wetalk about your endeavors,
(01:18):
things that you're passionateabout, or whatever the case may
be.
The consistency is key, butwhat's key for you is the way
you organize your life.
So I would love to hear how doyou organize your life?
What does that look like?
But also to the boundaries thatyou've laid, so that you can
(01:38):
remain consistent on the mainpriority things.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I had a conversation with a friend recently and he
said hey, man, can you take methrough your day like minute by
minute?
I was like do you, do youreally want me to?
You said yeah, I do.
I was like all right, and wegot to a point where essentially
he was struggling with hismorning routine and he was just
kind of getting lost throughoutthe day yeah and I said here's
(02:03):
the thing, man.
I have been a business ownersince 2018.
I've been married.
Well, I've been with my, mywife.
We dated, so we've beentogether for like six years.
I can count on two hands theamount of times that I've had
breakfast with her during theweek, that I've had breakfast
(02:24):
with her during the week.
That is unheard of.
I don't.
I'm in the office from 9 amuntil 6 pm, essentially every
single day, and it's a closeddoor.
When the door is closed, yougotta pretend I'm not here.
So I guess that the best way todescribe it is I just try to
treat this like it's a nine tofive, except it's way more.
(02:44):
I don't do stuff during theweek.
You're never going to see me ata lunch on a random Tuesday.
For me, I'm here.
I got to stay locked in.
I got to stay locked in.
That helps me to stayconsistent.
So essentially, it's thatMonday through Friday, I don't
leave the house between 9am and6.
Ever Almost ever I get up early, I go to the gym.
(03:05):
I get that out of the way.
That's kind of the way it'sbeen designed, just because I
don't want any distractions andI want to make sure I'm being as
productive as I can.
Disclaimer that's not foreveryone and this ain't going to
be one of those hustle porn.
You've got to do exactly whatI've got to do exactly what I
got to do.
You can live your life in yourown way, because you probably
want something different than me.
(03:26):
The boundaries piece is hardbecause sometimes it comes off
as cold.
Sometimes it comes off as I'mnot important enough for you.
Sometimes it comes off as youcare more about other people
than you do me.
But the boundaries are.
Look, this is up to me.
I want to provide a really goodlife for myself, my family, our
(03:50):
team.
That is up to me.
Nobody is going to do thatother than me.
That's up to me.
I decided to sign up for this.
This is my responsibility.
It's nobody else'sresponsibility.
I don't necessarily expectpeople to understand anymore.
What I do hope is that peoplewill respect my wishes, just
like I respect theirs when theyset their boundaries.
So, yeah, I think it's just.
(04:11):
I've just become less and lessmousy around.
What's important to me this isthere's really nowhere I'd
rather be than with you rightnow, in this moment.
This is awesome.
I love this, but without theboundaries of the things that
we've had to set up.
I wouldn't be able to do thisas often as I can, so I would
(04:32):
say that's probably the best wayto state it.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, 100%.
And I think usually businessand I wouldn't say business is
easy, but business is simple.
Podcasting is pretty simple.
We're just having aconversation, right.
We can do this every daysomewhere else, right, it's the
life piece, Right.
And having that organized Right.
And so, through that nine tofive, the way you treat it.
(04:59):
Talk to me about saying no tofolks like how do you disappoint
people or how are youcomfortable with disappointing,
right?
So that's one piece of it,right.
And then also, what you'redoing is countercultural.
It's different than most people.
People might question you orlook at you weird, right?
(05:21):
How do you handle those things?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
look at you weird, right?
How do you handle those things?
I'll answer the second thingfirst.
Yeah, when I used to meetpeople and they say they said
what do you do?
and I said I was a podcaster Iget a lot of weird looks yeah,
for sure, and I knew it was likeokay, especially when I was,
when I before I got with my wifewhen I was dating.
It was so hard because a lot ofthe women I was trying to date
just didn't understand it.
They're like like, okay, you'regoing to be broke forever.
(05:46):
It's like I'm broke now and I'mnot going to be broke forever,
I promise.
But I also understand.
It's super weird.
Now I get a lot of love for it.
You in the beginning are thepeople that are asking you for
advice.
Eventually, when I go toweddings now and people say what
(06:06):
do you do?
And I say I'm a podcaster, it'salways a really cool,
interesting conversation.
So the script is flipped onthat.
It's taken eight years, but thescript has flipped on that.
You know.
I think I've gotten to the pointwhere I realized that I would
rather disappoint somebody elsethan disappoint myself and then
regret it.
I realized that I would ratherdisappoint somebody else than
disappoint myself and thenregret it, and I think that's
(06:31):
all that boundaries are.
Boundaries are a suggestion ofcore values.
I want to get very clear onwhat my core values are and what
do I value as a human being,and it's my job to stay in
alignment with those core valuesIf I go outside of alignment,
right.
So let's say I have a meetingright after this.
Okay, this is a good example.
Let's say we're coming uptowards the end of this.
We've been doing this for 57minutes and I say Josh, just FYI
(06:52):
, it's been wonderful, man, Igot to hop in three minutes.
I got another call.
You might get upset with me thecollective, you, not you.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
But the opposite of that is, I just keep going, I'm
late to my next meeting, andthen I start to resent you, josh
.
Josh made me late.
Josh did not make me late, Imade myself late because I
didn't set that boundary.
That that awareness for me hasbeen very powerful, because now
I know, yes, it's uncomfortablein the moment, but it's going to
be worse after and I'm going toregret it.
(07:23):
I'm probably going tovillainize that person and it's
not going to work.
That's part one.
And then there's a quote thepeople who are most offended
when you start to set boundariesare the people who probably
benefited the most from you nothaving them in the first place.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So when you start to set boundaries, it's a really
good piece of proof on howpeople react if somebody says oh
dude, my bad, I didn't realizewe were coming up against it,
let me get you out of here.
Have a great rest of your day.
You're the type of person I wantin my life yeah if it's the
opposite of well, we're in themiddle of a really good point.
Just can't you just be 15minutes late?
(08:01):
No, no, I wouldn't be 15minutes late for your podcast.
I don't be 50 minutes late forsomething else.
So boundaries expose people.
Boundaries highlight who youwant to be around and who you
don't.
So I think I just have a morepositive relationship with
getting the highlights than Idid in the past.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, 100%, and I think, like you said, you expose
people, you expose the folkswho are supposed to be in your
corner.
Start to kind of weed out thefolks who aren't supposed to be
in your corner.
You mentioned something reallyimportant that I think affects
your self-image.
It is not disappointingyourself, right?
(08:39):
And I think a lot of times weare so afraid of disappointing
other people or we care aboutother people's opinions of us
that we forget about ourselves.
What's going to make us themost proud of ourselves?
What's going to make us go tobed at night happy, go to bed at
(08:59):
night feeling good aboutourselves, so that we can wake
up the next day and build onthat right?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Talk to me how important that is.
I think that's the mostimportant piece of building your
self image and kind of buildingyour confidence along the way.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
One of the most important things to be aware of
is are you more afraid ofsuccess or failure?
Because that's going to dictatehow you respond to setting
boundaries.
I'm not afraid to be alone, Iknow.
In the beginning of my journey,my thought was I need to figure
out a way to get around peoplewho are going to help make me
(09:35):
better.
I can't really have any deadweight in my life.
I got to, like, figure out howto do this.
So I just want to put that outthere, because that dictates the
promises that you set and keepto yourself.
Some of the promises are I knowthis thing makes me nervous,
but I'm going to get outside mycomfort zone and do it anyway.
That's a great promise.
The other one might be I knowI've been friends with this
(09:59):
person for the last 10 years,but I really need to start
setting some boundaries becausethey're starting to take
advantage of my lack ofboundaries.
That's a social thing, but atthe end of the day, I think what
confidence is is having aburden of proof that shows you
that you are capable of thething that you aspire to do, and
(10:21):
I think self-worth, which isinternal, is I advocate for
myself through my actions,through my behaviors and through
my boundaries.
So that's why showing up foryourself is so important,
because you start to buildself-trust.
Oh, I am the type of person whoexercises Interesting.
(10:43):
When you practice a behaviorfor long enough, it becomes a
part of your identity.
When it becomes part of youridentity, it's harder not to do
it than it is to do it, andthat's why it's so important to
repeat things over and over.
But it's the same thinginternally, internally,
especially when it comes tosetting boundaries super
uncomfortable in the beginningGets a little easier, a little
easier, a little easier.
(11:09):
Eventually, maybe you get to theplace where you identify as I
am the type of person who sticksup for myself.
I am the type of person whoasks for what I'm worth or I
deserve.
I get what I deserve.
I get what I'm worth.
Those are very, very differentlives.
But, to your point, if you wakeup every day and you break all
those promises to yourself,you're probably not going to
keep investing in yourself.
Alan, you know, alan, he has agreat quote.
(11:29):
I sound like alan on thisbecause he's always dropping
quotes.
If you had a friend who brokeas many promises to you as you
have broken to yourself how muchwould you value that friendship
?
Yeah, you have a relationshipwith yourself.
The deepest relationship youhave is the one with the person
you see in the mirror.
If you're letting yourself downconstantly, that is hurting
(11:51):
your self-belief, that ishurting your self-worth and that
is hurting your self-trust forsure.
It just might not seem like itthat much.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, 100%.
I don't think people thinkabout that.
This is a relationship that Ihave with myself yeah, you're
talking to yourself.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I mean you have more conversation with yourself than
you do with anybody else.
It's it's your internaldialogue, it's your, it's your
operating system.
It's the record that's alwaysplaying.
I mean that record is on repeatbut you can get up and go
search for a new record andthat's what that new behavior is
.
And eventually, after a longenough period of time, that new
(12:28):
record is I can do this.
I can do hard things, I'mconsistent, I'm this type of
person.
But it just takes time becausethat other record has probably
been playing for a long time.
So it's hard to.
If you've been doing somethingfor five years, you're not going
to fix it in five minutes, mostlikely.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
It just doesn't really work that way,
unfortunately.
Yeah, it takes work.
And you talk about that oldrecord.
I think a lot of times we do alot of things that feeds that
old record as opposed to feedingthis new record, right?
So I was actually looking atyour Instagram and you talked
about folks comparing themselvesto people on social media,
right, that's like an example offeeding that old record of,
like, all of your insecurities.
(13:09):
You're feeding it by followingother people's lives, right?
As opposed to, hey, maybe youhop, you get off Instagram and
you listen to some podcasts oryou read some books or you
exercise, right?
Or if you are on Instagram,maybe you're using it in a
productive way to grow yourself,right?
So talk about that.
(13:31):
Like, what can folks start todo to have a different mindset?
Right, the easiest things folkscan start to do to kind of
quiet that older record thatthey have, that old limited
self-beliefs that they have, andkind of grow into a new
direction step is to identify it.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
So what is the current record?
Is it?
For me it was.
I'm not good enough, I'm notsmart enough, I'm gonna get left
behind.
Those were mine.
I'm not good enough, I'm notsmart enough, I'm not gonna I'm
gonna get left behind.
That was it.
Yeah, identify step one,because without awareness you're
just kind of throwing dartshoping they hit.
So, identify first.
I think the second thing isreflect.
Where where do we think thisrecord came from and where did
it start?
Cool, let's reflect.
(14:18):
And then, essentially and again, simple, not easy.
You just kind of do theopposite.
Now, I know it's not that easy,but if you're, it's fear and
discomfort, and getting out ofyour comfort zone is this weird
thing where you kind of justhave to do the thing that you
(14:39):
don't want to do yeah you wantto be a public speaker, you
gotta start speaking.
That's it.
That's the answer.
Now we can dose it correctly.
You don't go speak in front of100 people.
You speak in front of yourcamera and nobody else cool.
So I think the the third piecewould be break the thing that
(15:02):
seems almost impossible up intosomething that seems almost
embarrassing.
Okay, you've been lettingyourself down.
Every day you say I'm gonna goto the gym today, I'm gonna go
get a gym membership today, I'mgoing to do this, I'm going to
do this.
This is a great concept fromAtomic Habits.
Tomorrow, just wake up and putyour gym shoes on and then you
(15:23):
can go back to bed.
You don't have to go to the gymNext day.
Wake up, put your gym shoes onand then put your gym clothes on
.
Next day, wake up, do that andthen search for a local gym and
then, like the fifth day or thesixth day, you drive to the gym
and you start talking about amembership.
By the end of that week youhave done a bunch of things that
(15:45):
you hadn't done before.
It might seem embarrassinglysmall.
Some other people just go tothe gym.
It doesn't matter what otherpeople do.
Other people have differentstruggles, other people have
different core wounds, they havedifferent triggers.
It's not about that.
Even that is comparison.
Well, I shouldn't have to dothat.
I should just be able to go,maybe.
But that's not constructive,that's not productive.
(16:08):
So I think it's that it's withhumility start to set goals that
seem almost embarrassinglysmall, because doing the
opposite probably isn'tbenefiting you.
It's you and I are recordingthis in.
I think it's the middle offebruary new, new year's
resolutions have came and gonefor a lot of people.
Because you try to take ayear's worth of results and put
(16:29):
them into one sentence, you'renot giving yourself time to
build the habit, to build theidentity, to build belief, to
build the self-worth.
So, yeah, I think it's identity, identify, reflect and then,
probably with humility, set somegoals that are almost
embarrassingly small, becauseit's easier to build momentum
than it is to fail and then say,okay, I have to try something
(16:53):
different.
I think momentum is a verywonderful thing if you can build
it.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, 100%, it's unstoppable to a degree, right,
yeah, once you start to buildmomentum, it becomes very easy
to stay with it and then, likeyou said, eventually it becomes
your identity and it's who youare.
And now you would rather do itthan not do it right.
So I think one of the strugglesis that people struggle to take
those small steps because theyare comparing themselves to
(17:20):
others.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, Right, yeah, yeah it's.
I said this, I put this on mystory today.
I really hope you're as happyas you look on social media,
because the people that you'recomparing to on social media
aren't as happy as they look.
On social media.
Everything is kind of a facade.
Nobody really knows what's realLike, even this.
(17:44):
I'm not telling you about allthe times I've cried myself to
sleep because it's just not thatconstructive and nobody really
wants to hear that.
I'm happy to do it because Ithink it's valuable, but it's
not the highlights, it's not thepositive, it's not the
productive, necessarily.
One of the things that's superimportant to understand is on
social media, you are literallyseeing the top 1% of people.
(18:08):
50 years ago, if you wanted todo that, you had to go watch a
movie.
Now you open your phone and yousee the most beautiful, the
most sexy, the most in shape,the wealthiest, the best
speakers, the funniest people,the most successful people,
because that's how the algorithmworks, but that's what's being
highlighted to you.
So, yeah, comparison is really,really dangerous because we
(18:30):
don't know what we're actuallycomparing to.
We only know what we see.
We don't know what we'reactually comparing to.
We only know what we see, wedon't know what they feel, we
don't know what they think, weknow what we feel and what we
think and we just makeassumptions based on the results
that they have.
And then I think the otherimportant thing is I think for
most of us we look at someoneand we assume that where they
(18:50):
are today is where they havebeen forever, when in reality
they've been grinding it out toobehind the scenes, just like
most of us, and we assume wherewe are today is where we're
gonna be stuck forever.
That's not necessarily trueeither.
So I think the differencebetween where somebody is and
our assumption, with how theygot there and where we are, and
(19:11):
our assumption that we're stuckthere is very, very challenging
from a comparison standpoint oftoday.
We were chatting about this, itwas on air.
We're going to be recording our2000th episode next month, I
think.
Don't compare to that, ifyou're just starting.
Don't compare it.
Compare to where I was in thebeginning.
I sucked.
I sucked in the beginning.
(19:32):
Don't compare to 2000.
Compare to one, because you'renot starting at 2000,.
You're starting at one.
So at least try to find anaccurate comparison point if
you're going to do it.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, 100%, and use it as inspiration too.
I think, not as a level of, oh,I'm not good enough, oh, I'm
not there yet.
And also, too, all of our livesare different.
We're all starting from evenyour episode one and my episode
one.
Hey, maybe you were a publicspeaker before, maybe you were
doing things on the radio beforeand I was not Right.
(20:04):
So it's all different and it'sall relative.
Where it's such a dangerousgame.
But also too, I think, onsocial media we are comparing
all all these areas of life.
Like we're looking at the fitbody, we're comparing that.
Then we're looking at the richguy and we're comparing that.
And then we're looking at thisperson who is just like super
cool and has a, you know,eccentric personality, and we're
(20:26):
comparing it to that.
And so we're comparing all thebest areas of life to our own
and we're creating, like thisunattainable avatar that we
definitely can't compare with.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of people have dedicated their
lives to the results that theyhave.
I wonder if it would help toknow that most people are just
really good at one thing.
Yeah, I wonder if that would,if we had the awareness like
imagine if above my head therewas like an attribute bar and it
said health, wealth and loveand you could see where I
(21:02):
actually was at.
I think that would be sohelpful, because you might see
somebody who's maxed out ahundred out of a hundred fitness
, but their relationship mightbe in the toilet and you
wouldn't know and you wouldn'tassume that.
So I don't know, maybe in thefuture that'll that'll be a
thing, but until then I think wejust have to be very
intentional with who we followand why.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, 100%, and I think it's also important to be
authentic to who you are right.
You mentioned right you guyswere.
You had a bunch of guests onthe podcast, right, and it was
great, it was fun, but you feltlike it wasn't necessarily best
for you, in the most authenticto who you are, to have to
(21:47):
continue to have guests on theshow.
Talk about that.
How important is that to beauthentic to who you are?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
um, as you continue to kind of grow your own path I
think it's everything and Ithink it's one of the hardest
things in the world, becausewhat's best for you
authentically might not bewhat's best for the people
around you.
That's the hard thing is, maybeauthentically you're an
(22:16):
introvert and you want to be anintrovert.
That might not be best for theextroverts in your life who want
to see you all the time, butthat's the conversation about.
Well, how authentic and aligneddo you want to be?
I think it's so importantbecause I think that when you
pretend to be somebody else tofit in, nobody ever really sees
(22:38):
the real you.
So nobody can actually valuethe real you.
And you know that you want tobe valued for you.
You want to be valued for whatyou actually believe in, what
you actually do, what youactually think.
Nobody can really value you atlevel 10 unless you show them
level 10.
But it's scary.
It's scary as all heck to do.
But I do think that's somethingthat we all could aspire to if
(22:59):
we think it would be worth it inthe long run, and I think it's.
It's very fulfilling.
I think that's probably thebest word to use is I've had
bouts of again.
I've been a podcaster for a longtime.
In the beginning it's like whoam I?
How much do I want to show?
Yeah, that's a cred hit.
If I talk about how broke I amnow, it's like I just want to be
(23:21):
me.
And that doesn't mean I want tobe toxic.
That doesn't mean I'm saying,well, I'm just kind of an ass.
That's just who I am.
No, no, I'm not saying that.
I want to highlight the partsof me that I really like, enjoy
and believe are good for theworld, and I want to work on the
stuff that isn't.
I think that's what alignment is.
I think alignment is, if wethink of what alignment is, it's
(23:43):
getting everything connected ofwho you are.
It's being yourself, it'sshowing up as yourself, but it's
also for taking ownership, whenshowing up as yourself might
make people feel a certain way.
So I think there's a level ofconfidence that comes with.
I think there's a level ofcertain certainty that comes
(24:04):
with it.
But there also is the downsideof the fear of judgment and all
that.
So, as with many things some ofthe best things ever there's
also a myriad of downsides thatcomes with it.
It's just a matter of figuringout whether or not those are
worth it.
Is it worth facing those to you?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Yeah, 100%, and I think, for instance, I think a
lot of folks are scared ofgetting rejected for who they
truly are.
That can be tough for a lot ofpeople.
I also think that it is anotherlevel of when you are being
(24:43):
authentic but you're stayingcomfortable too right.
So if I was to say, hey, I wantto be a podcaster, but I don't
like to speak in front of peopleor I don't like having
conversations, well, it's like,hey, you might have to change a
little bit, right, that may notbe who you are authentically,
right?
You actually need to challengethat.
(25:04):
So I think it's a level ofunderstanding who you actually
are and I think, like you saidbefore, you have to reflect, you
have to identify who youactually are, your fears and
different things like that.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, it doesn't mean stay the same.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
It means be more of who you are, mm-hmm, and
sometimes more is growth.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Right, sometimes more is less.
Yeah, it all depends on theperson.
But I think that's a reallygood example, because my wife
and I had this conversation onetime.
We went to a party it was likea I guess it was a wedding
rehearsal and she said sometimesit feels like you cut yourself
(25:44):
off from people.
And I said I, I like to do that, though I'm not doing that
necessarily from insecurity.
I think I'm so secure with thefact that I just don't.
I don't need to mingle, likeI'm okay if people are like
who's that weirdo sitting in thecorner?
Like doesn't really bother me,but is that also a crutch?
yeah would it be scarier, likeLike I'm so comfortable doing
(26:07):
that.
That doesn't mean it's theright thing.
Maybe to be more well-rounded,you should do the thing that
scares you a little bit more,because that will add to the
comfort, right, so that.
But that's why it's so hard.
There's so many room, uh,there's so many directions and
there's so many categories thatwe can grow in, and that's why I
think that's what makes it sohard.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah.
So what do you think got you onyour journey of like I don't
know, this journey of constantlylooking to grow, looking to
develop yourself?
I think you know, the older Iget, the more I realize you know
folks want to grow, they wantto get better.
Get, the more I realize youknow folks want to grow, they
(26:48):
want to get better.
Um, they just don't right.
And then you have some folkswho are actually like they
really think deeply about theirgrowth and their life and
wanting to get more out of it.
What did this journey start foryou?
Kind of walk me through that.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Yeah, massive pain, massive pain, massive pain.
I I was somebody who, from theoutside, looking in, had it
seemed like I accomplishedeverything.
I was getting ready to competein a bodybuilding show, so I was
quite literally in the bestshape I'll ever be in.
Girlfriend was a modelsix-figure income, sports car,
new apartment, great friend, allthe things.
(27:21):
All the things from the outsideyou would think that you wanted
, but inside I was miserablebecause I had focused so much on
my life and growing my lifeexternally.
I never focused on growingmyself internally.
So that was a really hard timefor me.
My girlfriend left.
I was broke for a while becausemy bills doubled.
That was a challenge.
(27:43):
Went on to make even more moneythe next year because I thought
that was going to solve myproblems, and then I ended up
sitting on the edge of a bedcontemplating suicide because I
was just so freaking miserable.
I was hopeless.
I didn't see a light at the endof the tunnel.
And then I started the podcast.
And when I started the podcast,it was just I want to have deep
conversations with deep people,much like you and I are doing
(28:04):
right here.
Like this is where it startedfor me, just like this yeah and
then eventually I'll be veryhonest I don't want to grow.
I, I don't.
I'm not the person who wakes upin the morning and rolls out of
bed and says time to time tocrush it, today like I honest,
some days like I just gottafigure out how to survive this.
I have to grow because my goalswill not be accomplished if I
(28:29):
don't.
I think the difference betweenthose of us who grow as much as
we want, maybe those that don'tis there just isn't enough
necessity.
There has to be some level ofnecessity.
I don't think people just growto grow, there's got to be a
deeper, a deeper reason.
The only reason we're going tohit 2000 podcast episodes is
because I want to podcast forthe rest of my life.
2000 is just a number, it's acool number.
(28:51):
But if I said I'm going tostart a podcast, I'm gonna get
to 2000 episodes, would I havegotten there?
I doubt it.
I doubt it.
No, that was never the goal.
It's just a very beneficialbyproduct of the goal.
There's something to that.
If I stop growing, this wholething crashes and burns.
I can't.
(29:11):
My wife is counting on megrowing.
My business partner is countingon me growing.
The team, everybody, the wholething is dependent on me growing
.
That's a lot of necessity.
That's a lot of necessity.
So, if anything, I don't knowthat I'm a product of.
If anything, I don't know thatI'm a product of discipline.
I don't know that I'm a productof work ethic.
I think I'm a product of goalsthat are really deeply
(29:32):
meaningful that I would regretnot trying to get, and those
dictate what I do and what Idon't do, and that's okay and
I'm okay with that and I signedup for that, and I just think
that's why I think there's justgot to be a level of necessity
attached to the, to what we do,because, yeah, I mean, it's easy
to crank together a morningroutine and do it three days,
and then something else comes up.
(29:53):
It's like inconvenient to do it.
That's where the goals kick in.
Well, I'm on vacation, but I'mgoing to do my morning routine
anyway, because that's what Ipromised myself I was going to
do this.
It's about the goals.
I think that's probably thebest answer I could give.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, it's about the goals and about setting them
right.
Yeah, setting them first, butit's about the necessity, and we
talked about that necessitypiece, and I think that's
different for everybody, 100%,and I love how you put it.
You said first you were focusedon the external right.
What we see on Instagram,actually we see on social media,
(30:26):
yep, the things that we thinkthat will make us feel better,
and they don't.
They don't end up making usfeel better.
Maybe we think we'll get somecompliments and people will
treat us a little bitdifferently, and then you
realize, hey, maybe they do, butmaybe they don't really, maybe
they really didn't pay attentionto it at all, maybe they really
(30:49):
don't care about all theseexternal things that you have,
or maybe people are only in yourlife for those external things,
not really for you, right?
And so you start to realize,like, oh, it's some changes that
I need to make inside.
Right, it's these certain painpoints that I need to figure out
and discover and reflect on.
How can I heal some of theseold wounds that you know, you
(31:12):
know cause the pain in the firstplace, right?
So I think that's a very deepanswer.
But also to these goals of, hey, how can I flip the script and
grow in another direction andmaybe give my next generation a
way different life than I had,not just monetarily but also to?
(31:32):
How can I Teach them differentthings that I was, that I didn't
learn Right?
How can I give them better lovethat I didn't get Right?
It's a lot of different thingsthat growth um can provide um
along the way growth'sopportunity.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah, growth, growth is opportunity.
It's an opportunity to impactsomebody in a way that maybe you
were never impacted.
Yeah, and in touching on thefirst point, I think it's a very
common thought and it makestotal sense when you think about
it logically, or maybe maybeit's when you think about it
logically, or maybe maybe it'swhen you think about it
emotionally, I don't know.
It makes sense to think thatexternal things will fix
internal voids yeah it makessense because I think a lot of
(32:13):
the internal voids come fromlack of external things.
At a younger age I was short.
Girls didn't like me.
I had very little money when Iwas young and I always felt
insignificant.
Okay, I'll get a veryattractive partner, I'll make a
boatload of money, I will getjacked and I'll feel good.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
No, yeah, no it.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
It it was internal.
The external stuff eventuallybecomes internal and then it's
the.
The fix is internal.
I got a new car a couple yearsago and it was the.
I bought a bmw.
It was the first bmw I'd everowned and I remember two things
happened.
(32:58):
One I was driving off the lot.
It was in the showroom.
They'd like move the cars toget out of the showroom.
I was like, whoa, this issomething.
One thing I was crying when Ileft the dealership Cause I
never thought that was going tohappen.
That was one.
Two I also was very familiarwith the fact that this is not
going to make me feel anydifferent.
That's just an importantunderstanding.
(33:20):
Love it.
I.
I've gotten compliment, great,awesome.
But I have to be okay with mebecause that car is not going to
make me feel any differentabout me.
Do I get momentary bouts ofhappiness when I get in it?
Yes, do I get anythingsustained?
No, yeah, you know what you getsustained car payment that's
(33:41):
what you get yeah, you get asustained car payment and you
get bouts of happiness.
That can't be the fix.
That just it can't be the fix.
There's got to be more to it.
It has to be more about youthan it is about what you have.
But sometimes it takes gettingthose things to realize that
they didn't fix you in the waythat you thought they would.
So that's the paradox of life.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, no, I guess I never thought about it like that
, where, of course, we thinkthese are going to fill voids
that we didn't earlier in life,right, and we try to fill it
with.
And it's crazy if we can sitdown and reflect like, hey, what
am I gravitating towards now,what do I think is going to fill
the voids that I feel now?
(34:24):
And kind of trace it back andreflect, hey, what did I lack as
a kid?
And it will start to make sense.
It's like, oh, let me givemyself some grace here.
Right then, let's try to flipthe script with small steps
along the way.
All right, I think that's huge.
I think a lot of folks don'tthink about it like that and I
think it's just another form ofself-awareness, of course.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, of course, small steps.
It's not.
I think one of the most commonmisconceptions is people say
take massive action.
That works for a subset ofhumans who have very high
self-belief.
That was never me.
I never resonated with thatcontent.
Just don't care what peoplethink Never worked.
I care deeply about what peopleme.
I never resonated with thatcontent.
Just don't care what peoplethink Never worked.
I care deeply about what peoplethink.
(35:09):
I still do.
I have a fear of judgment.
I have a fear of rejection.
I have all that.
That never went away.
I just learned.
I learned how to coexist withit and I learned that it wasn't
the end of the world if thosebuttons get pushed and they get
poked.
But that's.
I think that's just one of themost common things it's people
talk about.
This is how you make six figuresthis year.
This is how you get your firsthigh ticket client this week.
(35:32):
Those are results, not typicalMost of us.
It's a longer game.
It's going to take a coupleyears to get results in certain
things.
It's going to take a decade toget well known in some other
thing.
I've been doing this for eightyears.
It's a long time.
In the beginning Nobody cared,understandable.
(35:57):
Why should you?
Why should you?
Right?
So don't be afraid to breakthings into smaller pieces, even
though a lot of people aretelling you you should have
massive goals and I was.
I was that way in the beginning.
I thought everybody wassupposed to have goals, like I
do, until I realized how muchpain and suffering I've gone
through in the pursuit of thesegoals, and I don't want that for
somebody else, especially ifthey don't value the goals like
(36:18):
I do.
Most people should set smallergoals, probably.
I really do believe that,because you can build momentum
off of that foundation.
It just is unsexy.
But I think most of thefundamentals are just not sexy.
They're just not.
I saw a video you're in the gym, you know.
I saw a video the other day ofthis dude, really good shape,
(36:43):
and he's doing this ab exercisewhere he's like hanging from the
rack and he's throwing a ballup over and catching it on the
other side.
It's like dude, superimpressive.
Yeah, nobody's gonna do that.
Yeah, that's not how you.
That's not how you got thephysique you have.
You did the unsexy fundamentals.
You realize they don't work onsocial media and then you did
some wild stuff.
(37:04):
I see you, but that's not wherealmost anybody's ever going to
start.
And back to comparison we go.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Yeah, you know the boring mundane things.
It's actually so much magic init.
It's actually so much magic andthat's where momentum comes in,
right.
I don't think a lot of peoplerealize that I actually so.
I spent some time in Mexico Cityearlier this year, two weeks
solo.
Just wanted to get away fromthe cold first off, but I wanted
(37:32):
to experience something new.
The main thing I realized whileI was discovering a bunch of
new things, trying a bunch ofdifferent foods and grain in a
different culture, was man, Imiss my boring mundane routine
back home that I've created.
I created it because I knew itworked for me and I knew that it
(37:55):
was magic in it, and so Icouldn't wait to come back home
to wake up early and do all theboring things that I do and go
to the gym and what we'vecreated.
We've created this boringroutine for us, and I think
people don't realize it.
But success is choosing betweenthe apple and the cake, and
(38:16):
choosing the apple.
That's success, right, becauseyou're now on a certain
trajectory to get to where youwant to go.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
I think it's a percentage yes, it's, a
percentage that's all, andeverybody's percentage is a
little bit different yeah, rightjosh might choose apple 75 of
the time.
Somebody else might choose at60 yeah it's.
I think that's a really goodexample for what you're gonna
get in 10 years, though yesthat's the hard thing we did an
episode we were talking about.
(38:43):
Alan was like all you reallyhave to do is just do something
for 20 years and you'll getreally good at it.
I was like alan, I know, but doyou understand how hard that is
and how hard that I've beendoing this for eight years?
It feels like a freakinglifetime.
It's like I've been doing thisfor eight years.
It feels like a freakinglifetime.
It's like I've been doing thisforever.
It's been brutal.
I can't imagine another 12.
I can and I know we're going todo it, but it just I don't know
(39:05):
what it would be like in in 12years that it you have to you.
I think success first isdetermined by what you value.
Let's start there.
Because I'm not.
I don't plan on having children.
There's a reason for thatbecause I don't think I would be
(39:28):
a successful parent, because Ithink the goals that I have set
would unfortunately affect mychildren in a negative way.
That's my, that's my honesttruth.
I don't think I could be asuccessful father.
I'm not in the way that I wantto be, but that is a that has
been set up where I can actuallytry to have the level of
success that I want, it's corevalues, core beliefs and core
aspirations, and if any of thoseare in conflict, things get
(39:50):
really dangerous.
I had a call with a client onetime and he said I want to have
a successful podcast, but way,way, way, way, way more
successful than you guys.
I was like cool, love, thatawesome.
I don't know what it's going totake to get beyond where we are
, because I haven't got thereyet.
But these are my questions foryou, on a scale of zero to 10,
how important is it for you toget your children off the bus
(40:11):
every day?
And he said, oh, dude, 10 outof 10.
Cool, what about going to yourchildren's recitals, sporting
events, parent-teacherconference, stuff like that 10
out of 10.
How important is it for you tohave dinner with your wife every
night?
10 out of 10.
I said, brother, with all thelove in the world, this ain't
for you.
This ain't for you Because Itraded in all that to get to
(40:32):
where I am, am and I'm not evenclose to where you want to get
to.
I'm not saying you can't do it.
What I am saying is, if you dodo it, you might regret it.
That's a conversation for youto have with yourself and the
people close to you.
But that is the thing.
Misaligned success is notsuccess.
I think misaligned success isregret.
(40:53):
But going back to comparison,that could be the through line
of this whole thing.
I want, I want that, I wantthat, I want that.
But do you want to do what ittook to get there based on your
core values, your core beliefsand your, your core aspirations?
You might not, and that'stotally okay, but I'd rather you
know that now than before youdedicate a decade of your life
(41:15):
and then regret it.
Yeah, that's key, right there.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
What direction do you want to go?
Yes, what's important to you,right, and that's why I asked
you in the beginning what haveyou put in your life to make
sure that you zero in on what'simportant to you, right?
So, for instance, for him, itwas family, for you, it's
podcast's important to you,right.
So, for instance, for him, itwas family, for you it's
podcasting and growing it, right, and it's like, hey, you know,
(41:46):
these are the things that I'veput in my life so that I can
stay consistent to this.
But his success is totallydifferent, right?
These are the boundaries I putin my life so that I can be
successful as a father, as aparent and different things like
that.
So I think that's key.
That's the first step is whatis important to you and what do
you value most in life?
Not what you see that's shiny,looks good and will get you kind
(42:09):
of the most compliments and themost attention, and different
things like that.
It's what's going to make youfeel your best.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yes, yes, I said this .
We have a group coachingprogram where we're coaching a
bunch of podcasters and we talkabout mindset.
We talk about this stuffbecause this is important.
This is just as important asany tactic I'm going to teach
you.
I said I'm going to be veryhonest with you all.
I am willing to bet if I gaveyou the keys to the kingdom so
you can come, sit in my officeand it's yours.
The business is yours.
(42:38):
A lot of you would be freakingmiserable because you're just
going to be working all day,every day.
I don't think you actually.
I think you want your ownunique version of success, and
maybe ours is a good inspirationpoint to get clarity.
I'll give you the keys to thekingdom right now.
I think you'd be miserablebecause I don't think you want
to live your life the way I livemy life kingdom right now.
I think you'd be miserablebecause I don't think you want
to live your life the way I livemy life.
(42:59):
Understandably, I'm not going tosuggest that you should.
I want you to do what's rightfor you, but that's why I think
the hard truth is noteverybody's supposed to be a
millionaire.
I wish everybody had all themoney they needed to do all the
wonderful things they wanted todo.
But what it takes to acquire amillion dollars is drastically
different than, in some cases,than what it takes to acquire
(43:21):
$50,000.
It might put you outside ofalignment with your family.
I just think that's animportant conversation.
I do.
I think it's a super importantconversation to have.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, and I don't think a lot of people do.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
I didn't.
I didn't, so I understand Ilove it.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Well, ending on this, I would love to hear man the
never quit kid right and I knowwe talked a little bit about
this, but I think that's whatplaying injured is all about is,
hey, you go through things inlife and can you fix things
along the way as you continue togo in life.
(44:00):
Can you persist, can youcontinue to go right and Never
Quit Kid.
I just love.
Every time I see it, I'm likeman, I love this, I identify
with it.
Right, how has that kind of, Iguess, been like the engine that
runs Kevin the never-quit kid.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I was never the smartest.
I was never the best.
I was good at some things, butI was never really the best.
But the one thing that I hadthat a lot of other people
didn't is I could suffer reallywell for whatever reason, for
whatever.
Unfortunately, that was thesuperpower I was given.
It wasn't necessarily superstrength.
Or I wasn't tall, that was thesuperpower I was given.
It wasn't necessarily superstrength, or, you know, I wasn't
(44:40):
tall as heck, but I couldsuffer, I could endure, I could
be resilient.
That I mean.
A lot of success is just stayingpower and surviving right.
I mean we've been doing this along time.
We have to be some level ofsuccessful by now or we would
have died already.
So it's that it's just theresilience to show up when I
(45:02):
don't necessarily feel like I'mgood enough, when I don't
necessarily feel like I'm smartenough, when I'm dealing with
imposter syndrome.
I think that's what resilienceis.
For me, it's more about theinternal stuff than it is the
external.
The 12-hour days, the 16, 16hour days that's not.
It's not great, but I thinkit's harder to face the internal
(45:22):
stuff of.
I have a podcast today.
I don't think I'm good enoughto do.
I'm going to get found out.
They're going to know I don'tknow what I'm talking about.
That stuff's so hard to gothrough so hard and it's
invisible.
And then you show up and youkind of have to act like you
have it.
That's so hard to do.
I would say that's where thenever quit kid piece of me is
(45:42):
now.
I think when I was younger inlife it was just dealing with
physical pain.
Now I think it's dealing withwhat it takes to evolve and all
of the internal stuff that seemsinvisible and most people will
never see, but is deeply, deeplychallenging and personal to
each and every one of us.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Yeah, things that you have to kind of break the
barriers on every day, on adaily basis, of like, hey, yeah,
I don't feel good enough, butwe're going to do it and, uh,
you know, I'll believe right,it's always a new, a new level
to break.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Um so, I'm playing injured Josh.
I'm out here playing injuredevery, every day.
It just doesn't.
It just doesn't maybe look likeit, because it doesn't always
get revealed.
So I appreciate the, Iappreciate the perspective of
the show.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Yeah, people can't see it, and I feel it every day.
I feel it very often.
I'm like wait, I have to remindmyself wait, you've done this
before, you've done it multipletimes.
You know, hey, you've changed,you've grew Right, and so it's
definitely a constant reminder.
Kevin, where can people findyou?
Where can people continue tofollow your journey and see what
(46:51):
you guys got going on?
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I appreciate it.
Never Quit.
Kid on Instagram is a greatplace, and then Next Level
University is our podcast.
It's on all the platforms, it'son YouTube.
We do an episode every singleday, so if you're looking for a
consistent bout ofself-improvement, we'll be there
.
We're in your pocket every day,from anywhere on the planet,
completely free.
If I'm going to tell you youcan get a little bit better
(47:12):
every day, I better be walkingthe talk and I better be there
to help you do it better everyday.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
I better be walking the talk and I better be there
to help you do it.
Yeah, 100%.
And what's great about yourshow is that the daily podcast
that a lot of folks see isprobably like 10-minute episodes
, five-minute episodes, thequick snippets.
You guys give a lot of value ona daily basis, so appreciate
you coming on the show.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Appreciate you having me again brother.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
Looking forward to seeing your journey.
We'll see you in five years.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah, I see.
Welcome to another episode of Playing Injured.
We have an old friend here, mrKevin Palmieri, the never-quit
kid.
He's a CSO, a founder host ofthe Next Level University
podcast, which is a global top100 podcast.
Almost at 2,000 episodes now,right.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
We're, we just recorded.
I literally just recorded one.
I think it was 1978, rightbefore this.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
That is crazy.
You guys are crushing it and,like I said, been following you
from afar and the advice thatyou share with me as an early
podcast host.
I never forgot it, soappreciate you coming back on
the show.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I appreciate you having me man.
I told Josh behind the scenes.
I said when I saw this on mycalendar I was like whoa, this
is going to be a throwback andI'm glad you're still plugging
along.
I hope all is well with you andI'm excited to chat and see how
we've evolved over the last.
What did we say five years?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, five years or so Time has flown by and I think
, obviously for you and I wouldlove to ask you the consistency
of it all, right, Like wementioned, you guys are almost
at 2,000 episodes, right, and wetalk about your endeavors,
(01:18):
things that you're passionateabout, or whatever the case may
be.
The consistency is key, butwhat's key for you is the way
you organize your life.
So I would love to hear how doyou organize your life?
What does that look like?
But also to the boundaries thatyou've laid, so that you can
(01:38):
remain consistent on the mainpriority things.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I had a conversation with a friend recently and he
said hey, man, can you take methrough your day like minute by
minute?
I was like do you, do youreally want me to?
You said yeah, I do.
I was like all right, and wegot to a point where essentially
he was struggling with hismorning routine and he was just
kind of getting lost throughoutthe day yeah and I said here's
(02:03):
the thing, man.
I have been a business ownersince 2018.
I've been married.
Well, I've been with my, mywife.
We dated, so we've beentogether for like six years.
I can count on two hands theamount of times that I've had
breakfast with her during theweek, that I've had breakfast
(02:24):
with her during the week.
That is unheard of.
I don't.
I'm in the office from 9 amuntil 6 pm, essentially every
single day, and it's a closeddoor.
When the door is closed, yougotta pretend I'm not here.
So I guess that the best way todescribe it is I just try to
treat this like it's a nine tofive, except it's way more.
(02:44):
I don't do stuff during theweek.
You're never going to see me ata lunch on a random Tuesday.
For me, I'm here.
I got to stay locked in.
I got to stay locked in.
That helps me to stayconsistent.
So essentially, it's thatMonday through Friday, I don't
leave the house between 9am and6.
Ever Almost ever I get up early, I go to the gym.
(03:05):
I get that out of the way.
That's kind of the way it'sbeen designed, just because I
don't want any distractions andI want to make sure I'm being as
productive as I can.
Disclaimer that's not foreveryone and this ain't going to
be one of those hustle porn.
You've got to do exactly whatI've got to do exactly what I
got to do.
You can live your life in yourown way, because you probably
want something different than me.
(03:26):
The boundaries piece is hardbecause sometimes it comes off
as cold.
Sometimes it comes off as I'mnot important enough for you.
Sometimes it comes off as youcare more about other people
than you do me.
But the boundaries are.
Look, this is up to me.
I want to provide a really goodlife for myself, my family, our
(03:50):
team.
That is up to me.
Nobody is going to do thatother than me.
That's up to me.
I decided to sign up for this.
This is my responsibility.
It's nobody else'sresponsibility.
I don't necessarily expectpeople to understand anymore.
What I do hope is that peoplewill respect my wishes, just
like I respect theirs when theyset their boundaries.
So, yeah, I think it's just.
(04:11):
I've just become less and lessmousy around.
What's important to me this isthere's really nowhere I'd
rather be than with you rightnow, in this moment.
This is awesome.
I love this, but without theboundaries of the things that
we've had to set up.
I wouldn't be able to do thisas often as I can, so I would
(04:32):
say that's probably the best wayto state it.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, 100%.
And I think usually businessand I wouldn't say business is
easy, but business is simple.
Podcasting is pretty simple.
We're just having aconversation, right.
We can do this every daysomewhere else, right, it's the
life piece, Right.
And having that organized Right.
And so, through that nine tofive, the way you treat it.
(04:59):
Talk to me about saying no tofolks like how do you disappoint
people or how are youcomfortable with disappointing,
right?
So that's one piece of it,right.
And then also, what you'redoing is countercultural.
It's different than most people.
People might question you orlook at you weird, right?
(05:21):
How do you handle those things?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
look at you weird, right?
How do you handle those things?
I'll answer the second thingfirst.
Yeah, when I used to meetpeople and they say they said
what do you do?
and I said I was a podcaster Iget a lot of weird looks yeah,
for sure, and I knew it was likeokay, especially when I was,
when I before I got with my wifewhen I was dating.
It was so hard because a lot ofthe women I was trying to date
just didn't understand it.
They're like like, okay, you'regoing to be broke forever.
(05:46):
It's like I'm broke now and I'mnot going to be broke forever,
I promise.
But I also understand.
It's super weird.
Now I get a lot of love for it.
You in the beginning are thepeople that are asking you for
advice.
Eventually, when I go toweddings now and people say what
(06:06):
do you do?
And I say I'm a podcaster, it'salways a really cool,
interesting conversation.
So the script is flipped onthat.
It's taken eight years, but thescript has flipped on that.
You know.
I think I've gotten to the pointwhere I realized that I would
rather disappoint somebody elsethan disappoint myself and then
regret it.
I realized that I would ratherdisappoint somebody else than
disappoint myself and thenregret it, and I think that's
(06:31):
all that boundaries are.
Boundaries are a suggestion ofcore values.
I want to get very clear onwhat my core values are and what
do I value as a human being,and it's my job to stay in
alignment with those core valuesIf I go outside of alignment,
right.
So let's say I have a meetingright after this.
Okay, this is a good example.
Let's say we're coming uptowards the end of this.
We've been doing this for 57minutes and I say Josh, just FYI
(06:52):
, it's been wonderful, man, Igot to hop in three minutes.
I got another call.
You might get upset with me thecollective, you, not you.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
But the opposite of that is, I just keep going, I'm
late to my next meeting, andthen I start to resent you, josh
.
Josh made me late.
Josh did not make me late, Imade myself late because I
didn't set that boundary.
That that awareness for me hasbeen very powerful, because now
I know, yes, it's uncomfortablein the moment, but it's going to
be worse after and I'm going toregret it.
(07:23):
I'm probably going tovillainize that person and it's
not going to work.
That's part one.
And then there's a quote thepeople who are most offended
when you start to set boundariesare the people who probably
benefited the most from you nothaving them in the first place.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So when you start to set boundaries, it's a really
good piece of proof on howpeople react if somebody says oh
dude, my bad, I didn't realizewe were coming up against it,
let me get you out of here.
Have a great rest of your day.
You're the type of person I wantin my life yeah if it's the
opposite of well, we're in themiddle of a really good point.
Just can't you just be 15minutes late?
(08:01):
No, no, I wouldn't be 15minutes late for your podcast.
I don't be 50 minutes late forsomething else.
So boundaries expose people.
Boundaries highlight who youwant to be around and who you
don't.
So I think I just have a morepositive relationship with
getting the highlights than Idid in the past.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, 100%, and I think, like you said, you expose
people, you expose the folkswho are supposed to be in your
corner.
Start to kind of weed out thefolks who aren't supposed to be
in your corner.
You mentioned something reallyimportant that I think affects
your self-image.
It is not disappointingyourself, right?
(08:39):
And I think a lot of times weare so afraid of disappointing
other people or we care aboutother people's opinions of us
that we forget about ourselves.
What's going to make us themost proud of ourselves?
What's going to make us go tobed at night happy, go to bed at
(08:59):
night feeling good aboutourselves, so that we can wake
up the next day and build onthat right?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Talk to me how important that is.
I think that's the mostimportant piece of building your
self image and kind of buildingyour confidence along the way.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
One of the most important things to be aware of
is are you more afraid ofsuccess or failure?
Because that's going to dictatehow you respond to setting
boundaries.
I'm not afraid to be alone, Iknow.
In the beginning of my journey,my thought was I need to figure
out a way to get around peoplewho are going to help make me
(09:35):
better.
I can't really have any deadweight in my life.
I got to, like, figure out howto do this.
So I just want to put that outthere, because that dictates the
promises that you set and keepto yourself.
Some of the promises are I knowthis thing makes me nervous,
but I'm going to get outside mycomfort zone and do it anyway.
That's a great promise.
The other one might be I knowI've been friends with this
(09:59):
person for the last 10 years,but I really need to start
setting some boundaries becausethey're starting to take
advantage of my lack ofboundaries.
That's a social thing, but atthe end of the day, I think what
confidence is is having aburden of proof that shows you
that you are capable of thething that you aspire to do, and
(10:21):
I think self-worth, which isinternal, is I advocate for
myself through my actions,through my behaviors and through
my boundaries.
So that's why showing up foryourself is so important,
because you start to buildself-trust.
Oh, I am the type of person whoexercises Interesting.
(10:43):
When you practice a behaviorfor long enough, it becomes a
part of your identity.
When it becomes part of youridentity, it's harder not to do
it than it is to do it, andthat's why it's so important to
repeat things over and over.
But it's the same thinginternally, internally,
especially when it comes tosetting boundaries super
uncomfortable in the beginningGets a little easier, a little
easier, a little easier.
(11:09):
Eventually, maybe you get to theplace where you identify as I
am the type of person who sticksup for myself.
I am the type of person whoasks for what I'm worth or I
deserve.
I get what I deserve.
I get what I'm worth.
Those are very, very differentlives.
But, to your point, if you wakeup every day and you break all
those promises to yourself,you're probably not going to
keep investing in yourself.
Alan, you know, alan, he has agreat quote.
(11:29):
I sound like alan on thisbecause he's always dropping
quotes.
If you had a friend who brokeas many promises to you as you
have broken to yourself how muchwould you value that friendship
?
Yeah, you have a relationshipwith yourself.
The deepest relationship youhave is the one with the person
you see in the mirror.
If you're letting yourself downconstantly, that is hurting
(11:51):
your self-belief, that ishurting your self-worth and that
is hurting your self-trust forsure.
It just might not seem like itthat much.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, 100%.
I don't think people thinkabout that.
This is a relationship that Ihave with myself yeah, you're
talking to yourself.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I mean you have more conversation with yourself than
you do with anybody else.
It's it's your internaldialogue, it's your, it's your
operating system.
It's the record that's alwaysplaying.
I mean that record is on repeatbut you can get up and go
search for a new record andthat's what that new behavior is
.
And eventually, after a longenough period of time, that new
(12:28):
record is I can do this.
I can do hard things, I'mconsistent, I'm this type of
person.
But it just takes time becausethat other record has probably
been playing for a long time.
So it's hard to.
If you've been doing somethingfor five years, you're not going
to fix it in five minutes, mostlikely.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
It just doesn't really work that way,
unfortunately.
Yeah, it takes work.
And you talk about that oldrecord.
I think a lot of times we do alot of things that feeds that
old record as opposed to feedingthis new record, right?
So I was actually looking atyour Instagram and you talked
about folks comparing themselvesto people on social media,
right, that's like an example offeeding that old record of,
like, all of your insecurities.
(13:09):
You're feeding it by followingother people's lives, right?
As opposed to, hey, maybe youhop, you get off Instagram and
you listen to some podcasts oryou read some books or you
exercise, right?
Or if you are on Instagram,maybe you're using it in a
productive way to grow yourself,right?
So talk about that.
(13:31):
Like, what can folks start todo to have a different mindset?
Right, the easiest things folkscan start to do to kind of
quiet that older record thatthey have, that old limited
self-beliefs that they have, andkind of grow into a new
direction step is to identify it.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
So what is the current record?
Is it?
For me it was.
I'm not good enough, I'm notsmart enough, I'm gonna get left
behind.
Those were mine.
I'm not good enough, I'm notsmart enough, I'm not gonna I'm
gonna get left behind.
That was it.
Yeah, identify step one,because without awareness you're
just kind of throwing dartshoping they hit.
So, identify first.
I think the second thing isreflect.
Where where do we think thisrecord came from and where did
it start?
Cool, let's reflect.
(14:18):
And then, essentially and again, simple, not easy.
You just kind of do theopposite.
Now, I know it's not that easy,but if you're, it's fear and
discomfort, and getting out ofyour comfort zone is this weird
thing where you kind of justhave to do the thing that you
(14:39):
don't want to do yeah you wantto be a public speaker, you
gotta start speaking.
That's it.
That's the answer.
Now we can dose it correctly.
You don't go speak in front of100 people.
You speak in front of yourcamera and nobody else cool.
So I think the the third piecewould be break the thing that
(15:02):
seems almost impossible up intosomething that seems almost
embarrassing.
Okay, you've been lettingyourself down.
Every day you say I'm gonna goto the gym today, I'm gonna go
get a gym membership today, I'mgoing to do this, I'm going to
do this.
This is a great concept fromAtomic Habits.
Tomorrow, just wake up and putyour gym shoes on and then you
(15:23):
can go back to bed.
You don't have to go to the gymNext day.
Wake up, put your gym shoes onand then put your gym clothes on
.
Next day, wake up, do that andthen search for a local gym and
then, like the fifth day or thesixth day, you drive to the gym
and you start talking about amembership.
By the end of that week youhave done a bunch of things that
(15:45):
you hadn't done before.
It might seem embarrassinglysmall.
Some other people just go tothe gym.
It doesn't matter what otherpeople do.
Other people have differentstruggles, other people have
different core wounds, they havedifferent triggers.
It's not about that.
Even that is comparison.
Well, I shouldn't have to dothat.
I should just be able to go,maybe.
But that's not constructive,that's not productive.
(16:08):
So I think it's that it's withhumility start to set goals that
seem almost embarrassinglysmall, because doing the
opposite probably isn'tbenefiting you.
It's you and I are recordingthis in.
I think it's the middle offebruary new, new year's
resolutions have came and gonefor a lot of people.
Because you try to take ayear's worth of results and put
(16:29):
them into one sentence, you'renot giving yourself time to
build the habit, to build theidentity, to build belief, to
build the self-worth.
So, yeah, I think it's identity, identify, reflect and then,
probably with humility, set somegoals that are almost
embarrassingly small, becauseit's easier to build momentum
than it is to fail and then say,okay, I have to try something
(16:53):
different.
I think momentum is a verywonderful thing if you can build
it.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, 100%, it's unstoppable to a degree, right,
yeah, once you start to buildmomentum, it becomes very easy
to stay with it and then, likeyou said, eventually it becomes
your identity and it's who youare.
And now you would rather do itthan not do it right.
So I think one of the strugglesis that people struggle to take
those small steps because theyare comparing themselves to
(17:20):
others.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, Right, yeah, yeah it's.
I said this, I put this on mystory today.
I really hope you're as happyas you look on social media,
because the people that you'recomparing to on social media
aren't as happy as they look.
On social media.
Everything is kind of a facade.
Nobody really knows what's realLike, even this.
(17:44):
I'm not telling you about allthe times I've cried myself to
sleep because it's just not thatconstructive and nobody really
wants to hear that.
I'm happy to do it because Ithink it's valuable, but it's
not the highlights, it's not thepositive, it's not the
productive, necessarily.
One of the things that's superimportant to understand is on
social media, you are literallyseeing the top 1% of people.
(18:08):
50 years ago, if you wanted todo that, you had to go watch a
movie.
Now you open your phone and yousee the most beautiful, the
most sexy, the most in shape,the wealthiest, the best
speakers, the funniest people,the most successful people,
because that's how the algorithmworks, but that's what's being
highlighted to you.
So, yeah, comparison is really,really dangerous because we
(18:30):
don't know what we're actuallycomparing to.
We only know what we see.
We don't know what we'reactually comparing to.
We only know what we see, wedon't know what they feel, we
don't know what they think, weknow what we feel and what we
think and we just makeassumptions based on the results
that they have.
And then I think the otherimportant thing is I think for
most of us we look at someoneand we assume that where they
(18:50):
are today is where they havebeen forever, when in reality
they've been grinding it out toobehind the scenes, just like
most of us, and we assume wherewe are today is where we're
gonna be stuck forever.
That's not necessarily trueeither.
So I think the differencebetween where somebody is and
our assumption, with how theygot there and where we are, and
(19:11):
our assumption that we're stuckthere is very, very challenging
from a comparison standpoint oftoday.
We were chatting about this, itwas on air.
We're going to be recording our2000th episode next month, I
think.
Don't compare to that, ifyou're just starting.
Don't compare it.
Compare to where I was in thebeginning.
I sucked.
I sucked in the beginning.
(19:32):
Don't compare to 2000.
Compare to one, because you'renot starting at 2000,.
You're starting at one.
So at least try to find anaccurate comparison point if
you're going to do it.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, 100%, and use it as inspiration too.
I think, not as a level of, oh,I'm not good enough, oh, I'm
not there yet.
And also, too, all of our livesare different.
We're all starting from evenyour episode one and my episode
one.
Hey, maybe you were a publicspeaker before, maybe you were
doing things on the radio beforeand I was not Right.
(20:04):
So it's all different and it'sall relative.
Where it's such a dangerousgame.
But also too, I think, onsocial media we are comparing
all all these areas of life.
Like we're looking at the fitbody, we're comparing that.
Then we're looking at the richguy and we're comparing that.
And then we're looking at thisperson who is just like super
cool and has a, you know,eccentric personality, and we're
(20:26):
comparing it to that.
And so we're comparing all thebest areas of life to our own
and we're creating, like thisunattainable avatar that we
definitely can't compare with.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of people have dedicated their
lives to the results that theyhave.
I wonder if it would help toknow that most people are just
really good at one thing.
Yeah, I wonder if that would,if we had the awareness like
imagine if above my head therewas like an attribute bar and it
said health, wealth and loveand you could see where I
(21:02):
actually was at.
I think that would be sohelpful, because you might see
somebody who's maxed out ahundred out of a hundred fitness
, but their relationship mightbe in the toilet and you
wouldn't know and you wouldn'tassume that.
So I don't know, maybe in thefuture that'll that'll be a
thing, but until then I think wejust have to be very
intentional with who we followand why.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, 100%, and I think it's also important to be
authentic to who you are right.
You mentioned right you guyswere.
You had a bunch of guests onthe podcast, right, and it was
great, it was fun, but you feltlike it wasn't necessarily best
for you, in the most authenticto who you are, to have to
(21:47):
continue to have guests on theshow.
Talk about that.
How important is that to beauthentic to who you are?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
um, as you continue to kind of grow your own path I
think it's everything and Ithink it's one of the hardest
things in the world, becausewhat's best for you
authentically might not bewhat's best for the people
around you.
That's the hard thing is, maybeauthentically you're an
(22:16):
introvert and you want to be anintrovert.
That might not be best for theextroverts in your life who want
to see you all the time, butthat's the conversation about.
Well, how authentic and aligneddo you want to be?
I think it's so importantbecause I think that when you
pretend to be somebody else tofit in, nobody ever really sees
(22:38):
the real you.
So nobody can actually valuethe real you.
And you know that you want tobe valued for you.
You want to be valued for whatyou actually believe in, what
you actually do, what youactually think.
Nobody can really value you atlevel 10 unless you show them
level 10.
But it's scary.
It's scary as all heck to do.
But I do think that's somethingthat we all could aspire to if
(22:59):
we think it would be worth it inthe long run, and I think it's.
It's very fulfilling.
I think that's probably thebest word to use is I've had
bouts of again.
I've been a podcaster for a longtime.
In the beginning it's like whoam I?
How much do I want to show?
Yeah, that's a cred hit.
If I talk about how broke I amnow, it's like I just want to be
(23:21):
me.
And that doesn't mean I want tobe toxic.
That doesn't mean I'm saying,well, I'm just kind of an ass.
That's just who I am.
No, no, I'm not saying that.
I want to highlight the partsof me that I really like, enjoy
and believe are good for theworld, and I want to work on the
stuff that isn't.
I think that's what alignment is.
I think alignment is, if wethink of what alignment is, it's
(23:43):
getting everything connected ofwho you are.
It's being yourself, it'sshowing up as yourself, but it's
also for taking ownership, whenshowing up as yourself might
make people feel a certain way.
So I think there's a level ofconfidence that comes with.
I think there's a level ofcertain certainty that comes
(24:04):
with it.
But there also is the downsideof the fear of judgment and all
that.
So, as with many things some ofthe best things ever there's
also a myriad of downsides thatcomes with it.
It's just a matter of figuringout whether or not those are
worth it.
Is it worth facing those to you?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Yeah, 100%, and I think, for instance, I think a
lot of folks are scared ofgetting rejected for who they
truly are.
That can be tough for a lot ofpeople.
I also think that it is anotherlevel of when you are being
(24:43):
authentic but you're stayingcomfortable too right.
So if I was to say, hey, I wantto be a podcaster, but I don't
like to speak in front of peopleor I don't like having
conversations, well, it's like,hey, you might have to change a
little bit, right, that may notbe who you are authentically,
right?
You actually need to challengethat.
(25:04):
So I think it's a level ofunderstanding who you actually
are and I think, like you saidbefore, you have to reflect, you
have to identify who youactually are, your fears and
different things like that.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, it doesn't mean stay the same.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
It means be more of who you are, mm-hmm, and
sometimes more is growth.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Right, sometimes more is less.
Yeah, it all depends on theperson.
But I think that's a reallygood example, because my wife
and I had this conversation onetime.
We went to a party it was likea I guess it was a wedding
rehearsal and she said sometimesit feels like you cut yourself
(25:44):
off from people.
And I said I, I like to do that, though I'm not doing that
necessarily from insecurity.
I think I'm so secure with thefact that I just don't.
I don't need to mingle, likeI'm okay if people are like
who's that weirdo sitting in thecorner?
Like doesn't really bother me,but is that also a crutch?
yeah would it be scarier, likeLike I'm so comfortable doing
(26:07):
that.
That doesn't mean it's theright thing.
Maybe to be more well-rounded,you should do the thing that
scares you a little bit more,because that will add to the
comfort, right, so that.
But that's why it's so hard.
There's so many room, uh,there's so many directions and
there's so many categories thatwe can grow in, and that's why I
think that's what makes it sohard.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah.
So what do you think got you onyour journey of like I don't
know, this journey of constantlylooking to grow, looking to
develop yourself?
I think you know, the older Iget, the more I realize you know
folks want to grow, they wantto get better.
Get, the more I realize youknow folks want to grow, they
(26:48):
want to get better.
Um, they just don't right.
And then you have some folkswho are actually like they
really think deeply about theirgrowth and their life and
wanting to get more out of it.
What did this journey start foryou?
Kind of walk me through that.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Yeah, massive pain, massive pain, massive pain.
I I was somebody who, from theoutside, looking in, had it
seemed like I accomplishedeverything.
I was getting ready to competein a bodybuilding show, so I was
quite literally in the bestshape I'll ever be in.
Girlfriend was a modelsix-figure income, sports car,
new apartment, great friend, allthe things.
(27:21):
All the things from the outsideyou would think that you wanted
, but inside I was miserablebecause I had focused so much on
my life and growing my lifeexternally.
I never focused on growingmyself internally.
So that was a really hard timefor me.
My girlfriend left.
I was broke for a while becausemy bills doubled.
That was a challenge.
(27:43):
Went on to make even more moneythe next year because I thought
that was going to solve myproblems, and then I ended up
sitting on the edge of a bedcontemplating suicide because I
was just so freaking miserable.
I was hopeless.
I didn't see a light at the endof the tunnel.
And then I started the podcast.
And when I started the podcast,it was just I want to have deep
conversations with deep people,much like you and I are doing
(28:04):
right here.
Like this is where it startedfor me, just like this yeah and
then eventually I'll be veryhonest I don't want to grow.
I, I don't.
I'm not the person who wakes upin the morning and rolls out of
bed and says time to time tocrush it, today like I honest,
some days like I just gottafigure out how to survive this.
I have to grow because my goalswill not be accomplished if I
(28:29):
don't.
I think the difference betweenthose of us who grow as much as
we want, maybe those that don'tis there just isn't enough
necessity.
There has to be some level ofnecessity.
I don't think people just growto grow, there's got to be a
deeper, a deeper reason.
The only reason we're going tohit 2000 podcast episodes is
because I want to podcast forthe rest of my life.
2000 is just a number, it's acool number.
(28:51):
But if I said I'm going tostart a podcast, I'm gonna get
to 2000 episodes, would I havegotten there?
I doubt it.
I doubt it.
No, that was never the goal.
It's just a very beneficialbyproduct of the goal.
There's something to that.
If I stop growing, this wholething crashes and burns.
I can't.
(29:11):
My wife is counting on megrowing.
My business partner is countingon me growing.
The team, everybody, the wholething is dependent on me growing
.
That's a lot of necessity.
That's a lot of necessity.
So, if anything, I don't knowthat I'm a product of.
If anything, I don't know thatI'm a product of discipline.
I don't know that I'm a productof work ethic.
I think I'm a product of goalsthat are really deeply
(29:32):
meaningful that I would regretnot trying to get, and those
dictate what I do and what Idon't do, and that's okay and
I'm okay with that and I signedup for that, and I just think
that's why I think there's justgot to be a level of necessity
attached to the, to what we do,because, yeah, I mean, it's easy
to crank together a morningroutine and do it three days,
and then something else comes up.
(29:53):
It's like inconvenient to do it.
That's where the goals kick in.
Well, I'm on vacation, but I'mgoing to do my morning routine
anyway, because that's what Ipromised myself I was going to
do this.
It's about the goals.
I think that's probably thebest answer I could give.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, it's about the goals and about setting them
right.
Yeah, setting them first, butit's about the necessity, and we
talked about that necessitypiece, and I think that's
different for everybody, 100%,and I love how you put it.
You said first you were focusedon the external right.
What we see on Instagram,actually we see on social media,
(30:26):
yep, the things that we thinkthat will make us feel better,
and they don't.
They don't end up making usfeel better.
Maybe we think we'll get somecompliments and people will
treat us a little bitdifferently, and then you
realize, hey, maybe they do, butmaybe they don't really, maybe
they really didn't pay attentionto it at all, maybe they really
(30:49):
don't care about all theseexternal things that you have,
or maybe people are only in yourlife for those external things,
not really for you, right?
And so you start to realize,like, oh, it's some changes that
I need to make inside.
Right, it's these certain painpoints that I need to figure out
and discover and reflect on.
How can I heal some of theseold wounds that you know, you
(31:12):
know cause the pain in the firstplace, right?
So I think that's a very deepanswer.
But also to these goals of, hey, how can I flip the script and
grow in another direction andmaybe give my next generation a
way different life than I had,not just monetarily but also to?
(31:32):
How can I Teach them differentthings that I was, that I didn't
learn Right?
How can I give them better lovethat I didn't get Right?
It's a lot of different thingsthat growth um can provide um
along the way growth'sopportunity.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah, growth, growth is opportunity.
It's an opportunity to impactsomebody in a way that maybe you
were never impacted.
Yeah, and in touching on thefirst point, I think it's a very
common thought and it makestotal sense when you think about
it logically, or maybe maybeit's when you think about it
logically, or maybe maybe it'swhen you think about it
emotionally, I don't know.
It makes sense to think thatexternal things will fix
internal voids yeah it makessense because I think a lot of
(32:13):
the internal voids come fromlack of external things.
At a younger age I was short.
Girls didn't like me.
I had very little money when Iwas young and I always felt
insignificant.
Okay, I'll get a veryattractive partner, I'll make a
boatload of money, I will getjacked and I'll feel good.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
No, yeah, no it.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
It it was internal.
The external stuff eventuallybecomes internal and then it's
the.
The fix is internal.
I got a new car a couple yearsago and it was the.
I bought a bmw.
It was the first bmw I'd everowned and I remember two things
happened.
(32:58):
One I was driving off the lot.
It was in the showroom.
They'd like move the cars toget out of the showroom.
I was like, whoa, this issomething.
One thing I was crying when Ileft the dealership Cause I
never thought that was going tohappen.
That was one.
Two I also was very familiarwith the fact that this is not
going to make me feel anydifferent.
That's just an importantunderstanding.
(33:20):
Love it.
I.
I've gotten compliment, great,awesome.
But I have to be okay with mebecause that car is not going to
make me feel any differentabout me.
Do I get momentary bouts ofhappiness when I get in it?
Yes, do I get anythingsustained?
No, yeah, you know what you getsustained car payment that's
(33:41):
what you get yeah, you get asustained car payment and you
get bouts of happiness.
That can't be the fix.
That just it can't be the fix.
There's got to be more to it.
It has to be more about youthan it is about what you have.
But sometimes it takes gettingthose things to realize that
they didn't fix you in the waythat you thought they would.
So that's the paradox of life.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, no, I guess I never thought about it like that
, where, of course, we thinkthese are going to fill voids
that we didn't earlier in life,right, and we try to fill it
with.
And it's crazy if we can sitdown and reflect like, hey, what
am I gravitating towards now,what do I think is going to fill
the voids that I feel now?
(34:24):
And kind of trace it back andreflect, hey, what did I lack as
a kid?
And it will start to make sense.
It's like, oh, let me givemyself some grace here.
Right then, let's try to flipthe script with small steps
along the way.
All right, I think that's huge.
I think a lot of folks don'tthink about it like that and I
think it's just another form ofself-awareness, of course.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, of course, small steps.
It's not.
I think one of the most commonmisconceptions is people say
take massive action.
That works for a subset ofhumans who have very high
self-belief.
That was never me.
I never resonated with thatcontent.
Just don't care what peoplethink Never worked.
I care deeply about what peopleme.
I never resonated with thatcontent.
Just don't care what peoplethink Never worked.
I care deeply about what peoplethink.
(35:09):
I still do.
I have a fear of judgment.
I have a fear of rejection.
I have all that.
That never went away.
I just learned.
I learned how to coexist withit and I learned that it wasn't
the end of the world if thosebuttons get pushed and they get
poked.
But that's.
I think that's just one of themost common things it's people
talk about.
This is how you make six figuresthis year.
This is how you get your firsthigh ticket client this week.
(35:32):
Those are results, not typicalMost of us.
It's a longer game.
It's going to take a coupleyears to get results in certain
things.
It's going to take a decade toget well known in some other
thing.
I've been doing this for eightyears.
It's a long time.
In the beginning Nobody cared,understandable.
(35:57):
Why should you?
Why should you?
Right?
So don't be afraid to breakthings into smaller pieces, even
though a lot of people aretelling you you should have
massive goals and I was.
I was that way in the beginning.
I thought everybody wassupposed to have goals, like I
do, until I realized how muchpain and suffering I've gone
through in the pursuit of thesegoals, and I don't want that for
somebody else, especially ifthey don't value the goals like
(36:18):
I do.
Most people should set smallergoals, probably.
I really do believe that,because you can build momentum
off of that foundation.
It just is unsexy.
But I think most of thefundamentals are just not sexy.
They're just not.
I saw a video you're in the gym, you know.
I saw a video the other day ofthis dude, really good shape,
(36:43):
and he's doing this ab exercisewhere he's like hanging from the
rack and he's throwing a ballup over and catching it on the
other side.
It's like dude, superimpressive.
Yeah, nobody's gonna do that.
Yeah, that's not how you.
That's not how you got thephysique you have.
You did the unsexy fundamentals.
You realize they don't work onsocial media and then you did
some wild stuff.
(37:04):
I see you, but that's not wherealmost anybody's ever going to
start.
And back to comparison we go.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Yeah, you know the boring mundane things.
It's actually so much magic init.
It's actually so much magic andthat's where momentum comes in,
right.
I don't think a lot of peoplerealize that I actually so.
I spent some time in Mexico Cityearlier this year, two weeks
solo.
Just wanted to get away fromthe cold first off, but I wanted
(37:32):
to experience something new.
The main thing I realized whileI was discovering a bunch of
new things, trying a bunch ofdifferent foods and grain in a
different culture, was man, Imiss my boring mundane routine
back home that I've created.
I created it because I knew itworked for me and I knew that it
(37:55):
was magic in it, and so Icouldn't wait to come back home
to wake up early and do all theboring things that I do and go
to the gym and what we'vecreated.
We've created this boringroutine for us, and I think
people don't realize it.
But success is choosing betweenthe apple and the cake, and
(38:16):
choosing the apple.
That's success, right, becauseyou're now on a certain
trajectory to get to where youwant to go.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
I think it's a percentage yes, it's, a
percentage that's all, andeverybody's percentage is a
little bit different yeah, rightjosh might choose apple 75 of
the time.
Somebody else might choose at60 yeah it's.
I think that's a really goodexample for what you're gonna
get in 10 years, though yesthat's the hard thing we did an
episode we were talking about.
(38:43):
Alan was like all you reallyhave to do is just do something
for 20 years and you'll getreally good at it.
I was like alan, I know, but doyou understand how hard that is
and how hard that I've beendoing this for eight years?
It feels like a freakinglifetime.
It's like I've been doing thisfor eight years.
It feels like a freakinglifetime.
It's like I've been doing thisforever.
It's been brutal.
I can't imagine another 12.
I can and I know we're going todo it, but it just I don't know
(39:05):
what it would be like in in 12years that it you have to you.
I think success first isdetermined by what you value.
Let's start there.
Because I'm not.
I don't plan on having children.
There's a reason for thatbecause I don't think I would be
(39:28):
a successful parent, because Ithink the goals that I have set
would unfortunately affect mychildren in a negative way.
That's my, that's my honesttruth.
I don't think I could be asuccessful father.
I'm not in the way that I wantto be, but that is a that has
been set up where I can actuallytry to have the level of
success that I want, it's corevalues, core beliefs and core
aspirations, and if any of thoseare in conflict, things get
(39:50):
really dangerous.
I had a call with a client onetime and he said I want to have
a successful podcast, but way,way, way, way, way more
successful than you guys.
I was like cool, love, thatawesome.
I don't know what it's going totake to get beyond where we are
, because I haven't got thereyet.
But these are my questions foryou, on a scale of zero to 10,
how important is it for you toget your children off the bus
(40:11):
every day?
And he said, oh, dude, 10 outof 10.
Cool, what about going to yourchildren's recitals, sporting
events, parent-teacherconference, stuff like that 10
out of 10.
How important is it for you tohave dinner with your wife every
night?
10 out of 10.
I said, brother, with all thelove in the world, this ain't
for you.
This ain't for you Because Itraded in all that to get to
(40:32):
where I am, am and I'm not evenclose to where you want to get
to.
I'm not saying you can't do it.
What I am saying is, if you dodo it, you might regret it.
That's a conversation for youto have with yourself and the
people close to you.
But that is the thing.
Misaligned success is notsuccess.
I think misaligned success isregret.
(40:53):
But going back to comparison,that could be the through line
of this whole thing.
I want, I want that, I wantthat, I want that.
But do you want to do what ittook to get there based on your
core values, your core beliefsand your, your core aspirations?
You might not, and that'stotally okay, but I'd rather you
know that now than before youdedicate a decade of your life
(41:15):
and then regret it.
Yeah, that's key, right there.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
What direction do you want to go?
Yes, what's important to you,right, and that's why I asked
you in the beginning what haveyou put in your life to make
sure that you zero in on what'simportant to you, right?
So, for instance, for him, itwas family, for you, it's
podcast's important to you,right.
So, for instance, for him, itwas family, for you it's
podcasting and growing it, right, and it's like, hey, you know,
(41:46):
these are the things that I'veput in my life so that I can
stay consistent to this.
But his success is totallydifferent, right?
These are the boundaries I putin my life so that I can be
successful as a father, as aparent and different things like
that.
So I think that's key.
That's the first step is whatis important to you and what do
you value most in life?
Not what you see that's shiny,looks good and will get you kind
(42:09):
of the most compliments and themost attention, and different
things like that.
It's what's going to make youfeel your best.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yes, yes, I said this .
We have a group coachingprogram where we're coaching a
bunch of podcasters and we talkabout mindset.
We talk about this stuffbecause this is important.
This is just as important asany tactic I'm going to teach
you.
I said I'm going to be veryhonest with you all.
I am willing to bet if I gaveyou the keys to the kingdom so
you can come, sit in my officeand it's yours.
The business is yours.
(42:38):
A lot of you would be freakingmiserable because you're just
going to be working all day,every day.
I don't think you actually.
I think you want your ownunique version of success, and
maybe ours is a good inspirationpoint to get clarity.
I'll give you the keys to thekingdom right now.
I think you'd be miserablebecause I don't think you want
to live your life the way I livemy life kingdom right now.
I think you'd be miserablebecause I don't think you want
to live your life the way I livemy life.
(42:59):
Understandably, I'm not going tosuggest that you should.
I want you to do what's rightfor you, but that's why I think
the hard truth is noteverybody's supposed to be a
millionaire.
I wish everybody had all themoney they needed to do all the
wonderful things they wanted todo.
But what it takes to acquire amillion dollars is drastically
different than, in some cases,than what it takes to acquire
(43:21):
$50,000.
It might put you outside ofalignment with your family.
I just think that's animportant conversation.
I do.
I think it's a super importantconversation to have.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, and I don't think a lot of people do.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
I didn't.
I didn't, so I understand Ilove it.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Well, ending on this, I would love to hear man the
never quit kid right and I knowwe talked a little bit about
this, but I think that's whatplaying injured is all about is,
hey, you go through things inlife and can you fix things
along the way as you continue togo in life.
(44:00):
Can you persist, can youcontinue to go right and Never
Quit Kid.
I just love.
Every time I see it, I'm likeman, I love this, I identify
with it.
Right, how has that kind of, Iguess, been like the engine that
runs Kevin the never-quit kid.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I was never the smartest.
I was never the best.
I was good at some things, butI was never really the best.
But the one thing that I hadthat a lot of other people
didn't is I could suffer reallywell for whatever reason, for
whatever.
Unfortunately, that was thesuperpower I was given.
It wasn't necessarily superstrength.
Or I wasn't tall, that was thesuperpower I was given.
It wasn't necessarily superstrength, or, you know, I wasn't
(44:40):
tall as heck, but I couldsuffer, I could endure, I could
be resilient.
That I mean.
A lot of success is just stayingpower and surviving right.
I mean we've been doing this along time.
We have to be some level ofsuccessful by now or we would
have died already.
So it's that it's just theresilience to show up when I
(45:02):
don't necessarily feel like I'mgood enough, when I don't
necessarily feel like I'm smartenough, when I'm dealing with
imposter syndrome.
I think that's what resilienceis.
For me, it's more about theinternal stuff than it is the
external.
The 12-hour days, the 16, 16hour days that's not.
It's not great, but I thinkit's harder to face the internal
(45:22):
stuff of.
I have a podcast today.
I don't think I'm good enoughto do.
I'm going to get found out.
They're going to know I don'tknow what I'm talking about.
That stuff's so hard to gothrough so hard and it's
invisible.
And then you show up and youkind of have to act like you
have it.
That's so hard to do.
I would say that's where thenever quit kid piece of me is
(45:42):
now.
I think when I was younger inlife it was just dealing with
physical pain.
Now I think it's dealing withwhat it takes to evolve and all
of the internal stuff that seemsinvisible and most people will
never see, but is deeply, deeplychallenging and personal to
each and every one of us.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Yeah, things that you have to kind of break the
barriers on every day, on adaily basis, of like, hey, yeah,
I don't feel good enough, butwe're going to do it and, uh,
you know, I'll believe right,it's always a new, a new level
to break.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Um so, I'm playing injured Josh.
I'm out here playing injuredevery, every day.
It just doesn't.
It just doesn't maybe look likeit, because it doesn't always
get revealed.
So I appreciate the, Iappreciate the perspective of
the show.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Yeah, people can't see it, and I feel it every day.
I feel it very often.
I'm like wait, I have to remindmyself wait, you've done this
before, you've done it multipletimes.
You know, hey, you've changed,you've grew Right, and so it's
definitely a constant reminder.
Kevin, where can people findyou?
Where can people continue tofollow your journey and see what
(46:51):
you guys got going on?
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I appreciate it.
Never Quit.
Kid on Instagram is a greatplace, and then Next Level
University is our podcast.
It's on all the platforms, it'son YouTube.
We do an episode every singleday, so if you're looking for a
consistent bout ofself-improvement, we'll be there
.
We're in your pocket every day,from anywhere on the planet,
completely free.
If I'm going to tell you youcan get a little bit better
(47:12):
every day, I better be walkingthe talk and I better be there
to help you do it better everyday.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
I better be walking the talk and I better be there
to help you do it.
Yeah, 100%.
And what's great about yourshow is that the daily podcast
that a lot of folks see isprobably like 10-minute episodes
, five-minute episodes, thequick snippets.
You guys give a lot of value ona daily basis, so appreciate
you coming on the show.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Appreciate you having me again brother.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
Looking forward to seeing your journey.
We'll see you in five years.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah, I see.
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