February 10, 2025 • 42 mins
Kudan Kumar challenges conventional leadership roles by embracing an "Anti-CEO" approach that prioritizes people over profits, emphasizing a balanced design of life through his Six Pillars framework. The episode discusses the importance of self-awareness, incremental growth through the 2% Rule, and cultivating supportive relationships to encourage personal and professional development.
• Kudan introduces himself and the Anti-CEO philosophy
• Emphasis on the importance of people in business
• Overview of Kudan's journey and experiences
• Detailed discussion of the Six Pillars of Life
• Focus on self-awareness as a foundation for growth
• Importance of the 2% Rule for habit formation
• Kudan highlights muscle memory as a method for building healthy habits
• Encouragement to evaluate social influences
• Practical strategies for individuals to design their own lives
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of Playing Injured.
We have Kudan Kumar and we'lltalk about this, but he is the
anti-CEO content consultant andbranding expert of Dramatra and
he is the host of the UnbinaryLife podcast.
(00:21):
Kudan, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Thank you so much, Josh, and sorry for all the
trouble that you are goingthrough with our names and the
new keywords.
So yeah, it was really nice ofyou.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
No, you know.
Hey, I got to practice and Ineed to be challenged.
I know I always start thepodcast with who you are and how
you spend your time today.
Um, I want to talk aboutsomething real quick.
Um, you know, I looked at youon all social media channels and
(00:54):
you have anti-ceo.
Walk me through the thoughtprocess okay.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
So when I got into, when I started my own company,
um, you know, I, I am the finaldecision maker.
I run the company, I run theshow, but still I'm a very human
guy at the core.
I really love when humans grow,they succeed.
So somehow I felt like CEO isnot the tag that I can carry.
It's a huge, huge, hugeresponsibility.
And you know there is a certainlens that you look at CEO as
(01:23):
and I feel I'm not thatcompetent.
You know there is a certainlens that you look at CEOs and I
feel I'm not that competent.
So I thought of havingsomething where I could be among
the people, I could be humbletowards my employees and all
those things.
And nothing was working,Nothing exactly was coming along
.
So finally I had to tell peoplethat, hey, I'm CEO who doesn't
(01:47):
follow the CEO rules, the CEOrulebook of business.
So for me, my people are very,very, very important than over
money.
So you know, that's where theanti-CEO.
Everybody loved it and sincethen I've been sticking to it.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, so just being more approachable, yes, more
approachable.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
In fact, our policies start with people first and
then we look at the money.
So comes the second, not thefirst one.
Um, we make sure that all thepolicies, we all, sit together.
So it's more like not followingthe uh, the business rule book,
but trying to create our own.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So that's why yeah, no, I love that.
I just wanted to ask about itand get an idea.
Um, it sounds like, you know,because I think a lot of times
our ego, um, we want the titleright, we want the title,
especially in the corporateworld.
Right, the title uh, vp, svp,you know uh, ceo, uh, president
(02:41):
of this, and that, like the, the, the titles, um, you know, make
us feel, can make us feel good,right, um, temporarily Right,
but I love the fact that youhave you're anti, that you want
to, um, you know, kind of uhhave a healthy ego about
yourself and realizing like,yeah, I, you know, I am decision
(03:04):
maker, I am the person thatruns the company, but I'm no
different than the rest of theteam.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Absolutely yeah, and I love the word when you say ego
, that, yeah, many times we allget hung up with our position.
The moment you are out of job,you're not that person, so it's
so important to look at us morethan the positions that we hold.
It's just a temporary thing,that there are certain roles
that you need to play and that'sall.
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I love it so tell me this obviously I've kind of
introduced you your titles anddifferent things like that, but
but who is kudan um and how doeshe spend his time today?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
so usually I I have my own startup, as I've already
mentioned, so I spend like threeto four hours a day onto my
business.
I'm trying to create a globalbusiness out of it.
It's a creative agency.
We do a lot of animation, video, creative works for all over
the world.
But on the other side, thesecond half of my day goes
working with the businessconsultants, coaching, um, you
(04:06):
know, trying to help people,creating, designing their own
life, and, uh yeah, and allthese knowledges I'm trying to
put in a book.
So that keeps me quite occupiedover the day yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So you um, it's pretty interesting.
You are a creative at heartright, yes.
You know you make content, youcreate, but also, too, you
actually help people design andcreate a life as well.
Yes, right, yeah, walk methrough that.
I know you have the fivepillars.
(04:40):
I've seen six pillars that youtalked about recently on
LinkedIn that I saw the fivepillars of life.
Walk me through that.
And what are those pillars thatpeople can start to design?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Lovely, ok, so I see somebody has really done his
homework, so thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
That's what what we do.
I didn't do homework that wellin school, but yeah, so I do
homework for sure yes, yeah,yeah, no, that's pretty nice to
know.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Uh, that, uh, at least you have done some kind of
, put an effort to know, and I'msure your audience would love
all the effort that you'reputting in your podcast.
Now, coming to the pillar, uh,you know, for me, at core,
everything is about people.
So there are three P's that Iusually talk about it's the
people, perspective and thepossibilities.
(05:32):
So, if you are really honest tothe people around you and if
you're open to the perspectivesaround things happening, and you
know there are a lot ofpossibilities that open up.
So this is my mule mantra, mykey element of how I drive life
now creating.
So the usually idea comes that,hey, everybody tells, hey, this
is a good life, this is a badlife, but how should you reach
(05:55):
to design a life that you want?
Right?
That's actually theactionability part and that's
where I created six pillars.
You're right.
In fact it was five.
Gradually I evolved into six.
Is that the first one is yourphysical well-being, where it's
the body.
You know, however smart we are,intelligent we are, but the
(06:16):
body which is carrying yourbrain.
So that is the first one.
Then the next comes is youremotions, which is the mental
part.
However we talk, that may bethe male, female or any
nationality.
You know, emotions do dominateus.
Then comes is theprofessionalism.
So third one is professional,the fourth one is financial, the
(06:36):
fifth is your relational, andthen is the social.
So why I point out all thesethings is that you know, uh, the
six may sound too much to startwith, but that's where, when I
sit with the founders or when Isit with the business leaders, I
ask them just whatever is thefirst two pillars that you want
(06:58):
to work in?
The problem is that when youdon't know about these pillars,
some of the pillars remainsneglected forever in life.
Okay, many a times people thinkthat if they are professionally
good, the finances willautomatically happen, which
might not be the case.
No right, uh, yeah and uh.
For example, when I quit my job, everybody was surprised and
(07:19):
saying hey, kundan, it is sogood to see that you got the
financial freedom so young.
And I said said, how do youknow?
They said that you must haveearned a lot of money.
I said no, I just cut myexpenses.
And so there are so many ways.
But we never have been taughtin school to think in these
terms.
And then the other one as inthe most neglected and mostly
(07:43):
when the technology is going upis the social and relation side.
It's getting impacted so much.
So I was in US for quite a whileand I see that loneliness is
such a big problem.
However, you know fancy placesyou have, and, of course, the
whole ecosystem is designed thatyou can survive and you can
actually do pretty good beingalone, but then, end of the day,
(08:03):
there is a human need.
So that's where when I startworking with and this is for all
the audience as well you maylist down all the six pillars,
but you can start with any oneor two where you really think
you are struggling.
Yeah, so, for example, anybodyis coming out of the college.
I think working on yourprofessional pillar is very
important, right, and when I saythat you can focus like 60, 70,
80 percent of your energy overthere, but at least have those
(08:26):
20 invested in your physicalwell-being, emotional well-being
, relational well-being, andthat helps yeah, you know I, um,
I really like this because itbreaks down things in life.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Um, yes, to make life simple, right, and you can kind
of start to see what's mostimportant and what's kind of the
excess that you can kind oftrim and keep your life lean and
simple.
Yes, so you talk about physical, emotional, financial,
professional, relational andsocial.
(09:02):
And the first thing that comesto my mind is I'm not sure if
you read the book.
It's a book Six Pillars ofSelf-Esteem, and one of the
pillars is to live consciouslyhow you help your self-esteem.
A lot of people aren'tconscious of how to live
(09:25):
consciously.
I feel like these steps helpfolks break down how they can be
more conscious in their day today.
Right, you talk aboutprofessional.
Yes, growing your professionallife could help you financially,
but if your spending habits arebad and you're not conscious of
your spending, then yourfinancial pillar is not great.
(09:49):
And so we have to really breakdown each pillar to be able to
understand, hey, what is it thatI want at each pillar and how
can I be more conscious of myphysical, emotional,
professional, financial anddifferent pillars, right?
So, yes, you mentioned to startslow.
(10:10):
Right, focus on one to twopillars.
Let's say, somebody is very new.
They haven't even thought ofthis concept, right?
Do they start with the physicalRight, or do they start with
what they're struggling at most?
Or do they start with whatthey're already excelling at and
(10:31):
kind of start there?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
So see the core of.
First of all, thank you fortalking about the book.
I'll try to find some summaryand read about it, because I
have some dyslexic issues so Idon't read much book, but it was
great to know that somebodyelse has also written about it
and the title sound fascinating.
Just to in one word, ifsomebody approaches me and asks
me when, that hey, kundan, Iwant to design my life is the
(10:57):
first step of consciousness.
That, hey, you are now beingconscious about your life.
So that's my entry point.
I just, you know, tap somebodyon the way and say that, do you
want to about your life?
So that's my entry point.
I just you know, tap somebodyon the way and say that do you
want to design your life?
No, people are like uh, youknow, they have.
Everybody has their ownpriorities.
So, unless you have taken aconscious choice that I have to
take control of my life I thinkthat is the first point which
(11:19):
you said and that was prettybrilliant, so I just wanted to
emphasize on that.
Coming to the point, see, it'swhy the biggest problem I see in
individuals is that supposetoday, josh for some reason
becomes very famous.
Okay, the problem with thesurrounding is that they'll just
start copying you,irrespectively knowing what kind
(11:39):
of childhood childhood josh had, what kind of system uh, josh
lives in, what kind of person heis.
The problem with everybody isthat we all look for a silver
bullet that say, hey, you haveto walk 10 000 step every day,
and everybody starts doing it.
You have to wake up at 5 am andeverybody starts doing it.
Uh, no, these things are good,but you've got to understand
your system.
(12:00):
Okay, what system you'reoperating in.
And nobody understands youbetter than yourself.
Yeah, if you don't understandyourself, if you don't
understand yourself for anyreason, uh, trust me, nobody.
It's very hard for anybody tohelp you.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Okay yes, okay, so real quick, because you make me
coming to the yeah okay, goahead.
Yeah, yes, so, um, you said,first being conscious, then to
being self-aware.
Yes, right, okay, all right.
So I just want to make sure no,you see the real part.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
The problem is that I'll be using a lot of keywords.
The problem is, in life,everything is connected like a
net.
You pull one string and therest.
The tension would be on all thestrings.
I'm just trying to give someorder to it is.
Coming back to your questionthat, out of six pillars, if
anybody has to start, the firstthing is that you have to look
at yourself, that what isbothering you the most.
If your health is not keepingyou well, it doesn't matter how
(12:55):
smart you are in your school,you know your that pillars takes
the precedence, that you got tofocus on your physical
well-being first, okay, okay,let's say you are everything.
You are physically fit, you area brilliant student or a
brilliant professional, but forsome reason you are angry for
everything.
You are just irritated witheverything.
(13:15):
You got to start with theemotional pillar.
It doesn't matter, because thatis what is shadowing you, all
the good things that you aredoing.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
So this is how, when I sit with somebody, I think it
becomes very evident within anhour or two that which pillar to
start with.
Yeah, yeah, first of all, um,that's great, and because I one
thing you mentioned aboutself-awareness yes, a lot of us
are very influenced byeverything we see, yeah, and so
(13:46):
you mentioned, hey, people arewaking up at five.
I need to wake up at five, yeah, yeah, people are doing this
for their workouts.
I need to do this for myworkouts.
People eat this way.
I should eat this way.
People are doing this withtheir money.
I should do this with my money,right?
Instead of understanding who Iam, absolutely.
(14:06):
What can people do to reallyunderstand who they are, though?
Because I feel like it's peopleout there.
They're like man, I don't knowhow to really understand who I
am or become more self-aware.
What do you think people can doto start to become more
self-aware?
What do you think people can doto start to become more more
self-aware?
Okay?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
so, um, the one line answer is that you got to find
some reason to spend time withyourself.
Okay, yeah, it's nowadays.
If you see, a lot of people areaddicted, a lot of addictions
are going up, or the loud musicor some of the other reason.
The moment you leave people 15minutes to stay in a room
(14:47):
without engaging in anything,can you just sit with yourself?
It becomes chaotic in the head.
Why?
Because there's so much ofnoise going in.
It may be about the socialreasons, or it may be about your
past relationship, or it couldbe x, it could be job, but it is
so much noisy in here thatdoesn't ever let you sit you
with yourself.
(15:07):
So the simplest thing is that,if you can find a reason to
spend time with yourself, no, Ijust want to let all the clutter
come, but I'll sort it out.
Hey, this is my problem.
This is how I want to deal withit.
This is what happened in mychildhood.
This is what is happening in myjob, but can you make peace
with it?
That is the prime start of it.
Sorry, and exercise wise.
(15:31):
What I do is to all the coachesthat I work with.
I tell them can you listen toyourself when you speak, so
usually people don't listen.
They speak very fast or some ofthe other reasons, so the
auditory senses are disconnectedfrom the listening senses and
you never know what kind ofstupid thing you have said.
(15:51):
Sometimes you are arrogant, canyou?
Can you feel yourself arrogant?
Sometimes you are very happyand good going, can you?
Can you hear yourself out?
I think that is the start ofself-awareness and and from
there it just builds up trust me.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yes, um, I think that's huge, being able to spend
time with yourself.
And you said don't engage inanything, don't go on your phone
, don't watch tv.
Yes, just kind of sit insilence.
And and I've definitely donethat I remember listening to
Deepak Chopra, okay, and hementioned about spending time.
(16:33):
Can you spend 30 minuteswithout engaging in anything,
just sitting in silence?
And here's why I think peoplestruggle with.
You said you got to find timeto.
You have to find a reason tospend time alone is it is tough
because of how much is going onin your mind fears, you know
(16:57):
past situations, future thingshappening and it can be tough to
quiet that down.
But after a long period of timeor after doing it consistently,
eventually your mind starts tobecome quiet and you do start to
, like you said, hear your ownvoice, as opposed to hearing a
(17:20):
bunch of voices on TV, socialmedia, of how you should live
your life and what you value.
I think that's very, very huge,absolutely.
So talk about this, the 2% rule, walk us through that.
(17:44):
What, what is that?
How can we make our lives?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
better.
Oh, you're awesome.
I am so happy that I'm gettingto sit with you and talk to you,
lovely, lovely josh.
So, uh, two percent change isthe small change, yeah.
So what happens is when I sitwith, so there is a complete
excel sheet where I designthings with my uh, you know,
with whoever I sit with, sothere is a complete excel sheet
where I design things with my,you know, with whoever I sit
with, whoever I consult.
(18:06):
So on that sheet we design that.
How can we just try to progresstwo percent every month?
So let's say, if you can walkonly five thousand step, can we
increase every week by twopercent, which is just the
hundred steps, okay, and maybeby the end of the year you are
already walking 7,000 steps,okay.
(18:26):
And the changes actually startwith very small, tiny changes
that when you wake up, can youmake up your bed, right?
Can you make sure that you knowyou're walking two steps extra?
Can you make sure that when youare saving $100, can you save
$120?
Okay.
So these are the tiny, tinysteps changes that we do and I
call it a two percent rule oflife.
(18:48):
That is first one part of it.
The major part of it is in therelationship.
Um, I see a lot of uhrelationship where a lot of
fight goes on, and I am somebody, I do not fight, I do not
indulge in any kind of arguments, and usually what I've seen is
in relationships is that, youknow, two people in
(19:08):
relationships are not asdifferent as claimed to be.
Oh my God, you are so differentthan me, and I call it.
Usually that difference ishardly 2%.
So let's take that example.
Is that Josh is dating somebody?
Okay, and pardon me because I'mtalking to you as I'm taking
your example Right, and you havea girlfriend or a boyfriend,
(19:30):
whatever.
So in that case, whatever youare in relationship with
somebody.
Now what happens is, for somereason, you get indulged into a
fight.
Let's say there is, you are.
Okay, let me put some a littlebit, let me restart this one.
Okay, I'll put it on me.
So let's say I am somebody youknow I am 70% kind and I have a
(19:54):
girlfriend who is 72% kind.
Okay, and usually that's howpeople vary.
What happens is I see a puppy onthe road and I say, oh my god,
the puppy is hurt, let me get ittreated and live it back.
But my girlfriend says no, no,no, how can you do that?
Let's take it home because thispuppy is hurt.
And I say no, my father islittle uh allergic to the puppy,
(20:15):
so it doesn't make sense and wedon't know what kind of puppy
it is.
And the my girlfriend mightfight back and saying how, as in
?
Uh, you know unkind you are.
How much uh that?
So usually when people aretogether, it's hardly two
percent people are different.
Unless I am kind, I cannotattract a kind, kind, as in, you
(20:38):
know very unkind people,exactly, okay.
So whenever the group formedit's.
usually people are of thesimilar principle, similar
values, correct, but when webreak off, we break off because
of those 2% of difference thatsurfaced and suddenly the
emotion banged and made it looklike, oh my God, I cannot live
with you.
So these are the two thingsthat I try to club together.
(21:00):
Where I talk about 2% of life,where I talk about very small,
tiny things, I try to bringpeace into the world and I've
seen some dramatic changes inpeople's life.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, just 2%, just 2%.
Trust me, yeah, just take thenext step right.
Yes, yeah, yes, it's soimportant and this is something
that I've been practicing, Iwould say, maybe in the last few
months, because I felt liketrying to make this big
(21:32):
difference or this big jump hascan feel very overwhelming, as
opposed to understanding thatI'm on the right path, in the
right direction.
Yeah, and just focusing on thedaily habits yes, small daily
habits that really make yousuccessful, right, yeah, the
(21:57):
smallest.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
I can give another example also.
It's like you know, the, thelottery.
Everybody loves to win alottery, right, we would love if
some, suddenly we get a lotteryand there is, say, million
dollars award money is there, weall would love it.
But can you plan a life that Ionly want to invest, that,
unless I win a lottery, I won'tmove my life ahead.
(22:18):
Right, right, but we still gofor that two percent of job,
that twenty thousand dollar.
If I get a two thousand dollarI get, I'll work for that job
and I will work my way ahead.
Yeah, right, so that's how Isay.
Is that usually, when we planour things, we usually plan for
that lottery finding agirlfriend or a job or a
(22:39):
relation, anything.
We usually plan for thatlottery that maybe I might get
lucky.
But the moment you stop workingfor it like finding a job,
making sure that you're savingbit by bit, creating a life
where the lifestyle you can liveit would be very hard because
the success rate of a lottery isway less than the rest of the
success rate.
(22:59):
So I don't know, if you are onein a million, yes, you can try
that.
If you're not, you're somebodylike me.
Let's work hard and createsomething good for the life yeah
, and people don't realize so.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
And these small habits, this small two percent
over time, it compounds overtime.
Absolutely, yeah, right,exactly the same.
And then, like you said you,you look up a year from now and
you've changed the direction ofyour life, right, yeah, just by
doing small progression overtime, right.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I am the biggest testament of it because I lived
and I applied this 2% on all thesix pillars and it serves me
tremendously amazing.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, I love that.
Talk to me about this, though,because the small 2% and these
habits, they can be tough tokeep up with, right.
I know for me, one thing thatI've always it's always been a
struggle is the stamina to keepup with these habits, Right.
(24:07):
The waking up early yeah, I cando it for two weeks, but that
third week it's kind of tough,right.
Yeah, a lot of different habitsthat are really good for us.
I know a lot of people canrelate to being able to have the
ability to do, you know, veryhealthy things and all these
(24:27):
pillars, but over time it can betough right, and I know for you
you talk, you're big intocreating systems right, a
systematic way of thinking,right.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Walk me through that.
Okay, I just wanted life tosolve me and I found this is the
only way.
So, yeah, I actually I belongto a very kind of economically
uh how could I say a backwardplace, when I, when I was born,
when I was growing up, and uh,even like in india, a place
(25:01):
called biharar, we wereeconomically very weak and I
really wanted a life, not onlyfor myself but for everybody
around me.
So I started observing peoplevery closely, okay, and what
I've seen that when people, as achild, you have so many of
dreams, but as an adult, youjust start giving up on things,
(25:22):
thinking that, hey, uh, this ishow life is.
Uh, I'm trying to be practical.
Um, you know, this is notsomething for me and I, somehow
I never gave up on to that.
I started traveling all acrossthe globe.
I spent quite a while in europe.
I was in london, I was in usfor four years, okay, and and
(25:42):
somehow, you know, it was very Iwas very lucky that people used
to invite me to their home fordinner.
So I observe people and whatI'm talking to you is the
learning from all of those, allmy travel, all my journey, and
connecting those dots, all right.
So when you talk about.
(26:03):
You know, usually when theytalk about most of the people
talk about, everything is therein the head.
But there is one more importantinformation I'll tell you is
that not the whole decisionmaking happens with the head.
Do you know that?
Yeah, Okay, there is somethingcalled yeah, sorry, there is
something called muscle memory.
(26:23):
I believe muscle memory is muchstronger than your brain.
If something gets into yourmuscle like toothbrush, you know
brushing every morning or itcould be an addiction, or it
could be any damn thing If itgets into your muscles, it
(26:43):
happens automatically.
What we call is a reflectionaction that whenever I sneeze,
my hand goes up.
Nobody has to teach me, nobodyhas to.
Okay, when so I started workingon my muscle memory that hey,
all right, and suddenly then itand that's automatic button for
me.
I don't have to force myself orconvince myself that I have to
do it, but it became me.
(27:04):
That's how I am now am I makingsense?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
No, you're making total sense.
And and here here's a I haven'theard muscle memory since
playing basketball Right, andyes, you build skillsets where
it becomes muscle memory.
Right, where at first it isvery tough.
You, um, hey, you learn how todribble, you learn how to shoot.
Maybe you have a coach whoencourages you to change the way
(27:33):
you shoot a basketball Right,yeah, and it's very tough at
first, but you have to keeppracticing it and the more reps
you do, it becomes muscle memory.
Where you don't think about howto shoot in a game, it becomes
muscle memory.
And so you talk about creatinghabits in your life.
You're focused on doing it sothat you can create that muscle
(27:57):
memory where you don't thinkabout it.
Um, yes, and we have a lot ofhabits like this.
Now you, you probably um,unlock your phone and go to your
favorite app.
Your mind really didn't tellyou to do that.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
It's just muscle, yeah yeah, yeah, so true,
exactly.
So this is what is happeningthere.
A lot of things if you sit.
So what I do is, before I go tobed, I sit around 15 minutes
with myself.
That how my day was.
I reflect back yeah and I thinkthis is the greatest tool a
human can have is to reflectback.
I'll tell you one interestingthing.
Do you know what is the majordifference between the rest of
(28:30):
the species and human?
What makes us human?
Speaker 1 (28:33):
uh, I would say choice, the ability.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I say just two things the power of imagination and
the long-term memory.
The rest of the humans, therest of the species they cannot
hold the long-term memory.
Even a child is very happybecause they don't have a
long-term memory.
They are crying and then theystart laughing because they
cannot hold the grudges.
Our life is pathetic as anadult because we hold long-term
(28:59):
memories.
The moment you start forgettingthings, you are happy.
Trust me, the way I use mylong-term memory is that I sit
in the night, I reflect back mywhole day and that gives me a
perspective that what did I dowith you know?
(29:20):
Was it a conscious choice orwas it an unconscious choice?
So there are many times when Isee my screen time going four
hours and up and I absolutelyhad no idea.
That just means my muscle isgetting trained for something
bad, something which I don'twant.
So what should I do to reverseit?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
so these are the small, small things which I
really kind of encourage peopleand these things do really work
yeah, 100%, and and it goes backto living consciously right,
yes, absolutely, but I also lovethe fact that you are being
able to put the unconscious inyour favor.
Yes, right, yeah, and so thatis what people should focus on
(30:04):
is building muscle memory forthings that work in your favor
and try to avoid, you know,making unconscious and building
muscle memory and things thatdon't go in your favor and try
to avoid, um, you know, makingunconscious and building muscle
memory and things that don't goin your favor correct.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
So this also comes from.
So you know anybody you musthave.
Everybody knows that 80 of usis getting controlled by
unconscious behavior of us.
For example, what kind of childyou were.
You have no control over whatkind of childhood conditioning
you had.
Yeah, but that contributes somuch about who you are today.
Yeah, 100 okay.
It is very important to go backthere, talk to your child, you
(30:40):
know, and say that, hey, it'sokay, it's okay what happened,
but now I'm grown up I can takecare of you and these are the
things that you can change.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Your unconscious behaviors, your muscle memory
yeah, very powerful, trust meyeah, and you realize, uh, you
know, especially when youjournal about your childhood or
you start to, like you said, youstart to um, reflect on your
day and see, wait, why, why didI do that?
What did I feel this way?
Why do I do things a certainway?
(31:07):
And you realize, like it doesit, it comes from childhood,
maybe it came from your parentsand that's how they do things,
and so you just do it justbecause they do it, and you can
start to really change the wayyou do certain things and how
you think.
Right, to go back to one, whyyou have certain behaviors and
(31:32):
where they come from.
Right, and a lot of times itcomes from, you know, childhood
and that conditioning, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yes.
So, since I have given so muchof time and thinking because I
really get excited when I seepeople doing good in their life,
but for, as in, let's say, ouraudience, this is a very good
start point as to just toreflect, spend some time with
yourself and then try to takeone pillar at a time.
I think that's a very goodstart tool.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, yeah, one pillar at a time, and but you
know how it helps me think aboutthe pillars that you've named?
Is that it?
It helps organize life right?
I think about hey, if you thinkabout your, your year and the
goals that you have, you canreally take these pillars and
break it down to really organizehow you want to live your life
(32:20):
in each pillar.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Absolutely, yeah so mostly I've seen some really
good books, but they are so muchjargon heavy or they are so, uh
, you know, technically oriented.
I want to make things simplerso that, uh, technically
oriented, I want to make thingssimpler so that, uh, after you
know, I can talk to students, Ican talk to children, and in my
beta reading I have a studentshe is hardly 12 years old and
she was so excited about readingthe book that nobody taught me
(32:43):
ever.
And these things should betaught at the school level and
these are not so complex.
Once you start telling.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
If you can teach somebody the whole biology and
physics and mathematics, I thinkthese things could be taught
yeah, 100, it can be, it can be,and, um, so I I do want to go
back to what you said.
You said that starting with onepillar, that is, the is that
the advice that you would givefolks?
Start with one pillar, and whatpillar?
(33:10):
And the pillar that you saidthat they're struggling with?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
yes, yeah, because, see, I can say anything and you
might take me.
Say, for example, for somereason you are convinced that,
hey, kundan thinks quite a good.
What will happen is, blindly,you'll start following me.
It won't serve you.
Yeah, the problem with and thisis the hero message that I want
to tell to everybody throughyour channel is that, please,
you got to be your own coach.
That is the prime thing.
(33:35):
It's okay to hire somebody forjust a few months and take
advice from somebody, but yougot to understand yourself.
You got to be your own coachand even if I say something
which might sound very fancy,it's not going to work.
However, you know, universal itis that everybody should wake up
early in the morning.
Yes, it has been proven thatevery but the point is, if your
(33:56):
biology is not supporting it,you'll be struggling the whole
day just to follow.
So that is why, understandingand knowing your biology,
because, end of the day, whenyou do something good, you'll
feel good and that is much morepermanent.
Yeah, so much more permanent.
Yeah, so you got, yeah, you gotto ask yourself that what I'm
struggling with.
You got to identify.
I'm glad I hope nobodystruggles so nobody has to
(34:17):
follow these things.
But if you are, if you are andthis is something a loop okay,
you don't have to struggle aswhat kundan is struggling.
You have to struggle based onyour life.
Okay, if you think it is aproblem for you, it is a problem
for you.
Nobody else should define that.
How come you?
This thing is becoming aproblem for you?
It doesn't matter, they are notliving your life, yeah, so,
(34:39):
yeah, that's that's my uh.
Advice would be that you youcannot have a pill that you just
open the bottle, popped it upand just swallow it with the
water and things will startworking.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
You have to decide which pill I have to start with
first yeah, 100, and I, and Ilove that and and you know you
mentioned this because this ispowerful yeah, um, a lot of
times and in, we want to getvalidation for how we live our
(35:09):
lives, which is why we kind ofdo what other people do right,
opposed to quieting our mind,understanding how we want to
live our life, design our ownlife and not worry about how
other people view our life.
Right, and I think that'ssomething powerful that you just
mentioned.
There is, we live our life in away of wanting validation.
(35:33):
Yeah, and it's not a lifethat's true to us, right right.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
So everything, um, you know social validation is a
beautiful thing.
So now to the point.
I am like everything in life isamazing.
You just have to understandwhether it is healthy for you or
unhealthy for you, okay.
So, for example, if you aretrying to be in a wrong space
let's say you're taking drugs,you are doing some criminal
activity getting a socialvalidation is very important,
(35:59):
because people will discourageyou from doing that, which is a
good thing, yeah, okay.
But the moment you're trying todo something you want to be
entrepreneur, you want to sing asong, you want to do again, the
same society will discourageyou.
At that point it is not good.
So the only validation is is itmaking you a better person?
Is the validation?
If the social pressure ismaking you a good person, please
(36:20):
do it.
If the social validation is notmaking you a good person, stop
taking validations I love whatyou say.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
You say everything in life is amazing.
It's just dependent on is ithealthy for you or not.
You can use it for you, right?
So is it making you better?
And is it coming from the rightpeople, right?
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yes, yeah, so gradually if they are helping
you, if they are serving you tobe a better person, they are the
right people yeah, yeah, yeah,I love that, I love that.
It.
People, yeah, yeah, yeah, Ilove that.
I love, yeah.
It's such a simple framework.
It is right for therelationship.
The person might be your close.
It could be your sibling.
It could be your parents.
If they are not making you abetter person, they are not the
(37:02):
right people.
No, it could be, you know.
It could be your girlfriend.
It could be your job.
If it is not making you abetter human being, that is not
the right job you're into.
Right.
If any emotions which you aregetting in your head, if that is
not making you a better person,that is not the right emotion.
You had got, you got.
You got to kill it.
That's huge.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
That is huge.
It could be as simple yeah yeah, it is simple.
Um, even when you talk aboutyour own thoughts, right?
If it's not help, if it's notserving you, it's not.
Yeah, not yours, it's not rightabsolutely so.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Why I'm simplifying this is because a lot of people
get messed up into learningabout, you know, 10 types of
emotions and the relationships,and no, you, just.
You just have to talk toyourself and say is this making
me a better person?
Speaker 1 (37:48):
done.
Yeah, yeah, and you know it's alot of times these, these
thoughts can be uncomfortable,right.
So people that, the people thatwant to, the people that are
the best for you yeah, they canstretch you to where it is.
It can be uncomfortable whenyou go back to the folks that
make you comfortable and don'treally look to help you and kind
(38:15):
of give you feedback that maykind of hurt your feelings in
the moment but will help you bebetter in the long term, right,
as opposed to people who arejust allowing you to stay
comfortable with staying thesame right, no, absolutely
stunning.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
A very good point you have made, josh, that.
Yeah, a simple doesn't mean itis going to be comfortable.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Yeah, yeah, and yes, it does help you.
Does this help you?
Yes, but it can also be hard tohear and uncomfortable, right?
Yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
So this is the way life tests you that.
Do you have that stamina tostand tall with that life?
Yeah, you know, if everythingcomes easy to you, how will the
life differentiate, whether theyshould support you or they
should not, if you wanteverything easy.
So this is the way life testsyou, and it tests you very hard
for one, one and a half year.
(39:08):
After that, life startsrewarding you, you.
So, if you have patience forthose time I think because I
have done mathematics and 18months is the time, uh, which I
have seen it could be two monthshere and there.
Uh, it could be 16 for somepeople, it could be 20 for some
people, but usually I have seen,after 18 months, if you have
really life have tested you, ifyou really mean what you're
(39:30):
trying to say, it startsrewarding you.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
So stay with it, even when itgets tough.
Just get past that wall and itwill become beautiful after that
.
Yes, yeah, 100%, I love it.
Where can people follow you andhear more about your journey?
I know you have, um the podcast, your company, um.
(39:55):
You have a book that's comingout.
I would love for you to kind ofshare that with the folks,
lovely so I'm sorry, earlier Iwas not at all on social media.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
I very recently joined because, uh, my friends
started pushing me that I shouldtalk more, I should put my
words out there, um, and that'swhere I'm on social media.
So I'm not big on social mediaas of now, especially not much
on Instagram.
But, yes, all over the Googleyou can find me by the name
unbinary life or unbinary kundan, so I'm sure I would request
(40:27):
Josh to put my link whenever weare releasing this episode.
Yeah, um, and binary is anotherphilosophy that the.
I'll work on to that and I'llexplain it some other time.
At the same time, I'm trying toput all my thoughts into my book
so that you can get an access,and again, the hero message is
about that.
You got to be your own.
Uh, you know, coach, you got tounderstand yourself and, trust
(40:48):
me, the life opens upbeautifully after that, um, you
get everything out of life agood relationship, a good family
, a good future, a meaningfullife.
So, yeah, I'm somebody whoreally enjoy putting people
before me, so let's see.
So, other than that, yeah,coming back, uh, talking about
the book and about, so, by thename of unbinary kundan, you can
(41:09):
find me all over the internet.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
It's like u-n-b-i-n-a-r-y k-u-n-d-a-n yeah
, okay, yeah, I will make sure Iput that in the footnotes.
And then again, um, you know,obviously I know you got the
youtube channel linkedin.
I know we connected on linkedinand then you have some some
great content on YouTube.
(41:33):
So I was able to kind of checkout some of your videos and look
at your podcast and look atyour LinkedIn, and so you have
some social media stuff that Iwas able to take a look at and I
know that will help folks out.
So, kudan, you had a veryunique perspective on a lot of
things right, and you made itvery simple, so I really
(41:58):
appreciate you adding value andI definitely know that this
episode will definitely help alot of folks.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
I'm sure, and for all of you, josh, I absolutely
enjoyed this episode.
I would like to put my word outthere, sorry For all of you,
josh, I absolutely enjoyed thisepisode.
I would like to, you know, putmy word out there, sorry.
So I've been doing a lot ofpodcasts, but I thoroughly
enjoyed this one.
It's not only what you asked.
You were very good with thequestions and your perspectives.
(42:26):
They are so clear and I'mreally hopeful that we'll get
time again, that we'll connectand I would love someday I can
invite, get time again, thatwe'll connect and I would love
someday I can invite you sowe'll stay connected and the
kind of hard work you areputting for your audience.
This is amazing, so I'm sureyour audience is going to
applaud that.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Well, everybody, I hope youenjoyed the show and we'll see
you soon.
Welcome to another episode of Playing Injured.
We have Kudan Kumar and we'lltalk about this, but he is the
anti-CEO content consultant andbranding expert of Dramatra and
he is the host of the UnbinaryLife podcast.
(00:21):
Kudan, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Thank you so much, Josh, and sorry for all the
trouble that you are goingthrough with our names and the
new keywords.
So yeah, it was really nice ofyou.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
No, you know.
Hey, I got to practice and Ineed to be challenged.
I know I always start thepodcast with who you are and how
you spend your time today.
Um, I want to talk aboutsomething real quick.
Um, you know, I looked at youon all social media channels and
(00:54):
you have anti-ceo.
Walk me through the thoughtprocess okay.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
So when I got into, when I started my own company,
um, you know, I, I am the finaldecision maker.
I run the company, I run theshow, but still I'm a very human
guy at the core.
I really love when humans grow,they succeed.
So somehow I felt like CEO isnot the tag that I can carry.
It's a huge, huge, hugeresponsibility.
And you know there is a certainlens that you look at CEO as
(01:23):
and I feel I'm not thatcompetent.
You know there is a certainlens that you look at CEOs and I
feel I'm not that competent.
So I thought of havingsomething where I could be among
the people, I could be humbletowards my employees and all
those things.
And nothing was working,Nothing exactly was coming along
.
So finally I had to tell peoplethat, hey, I'm CEO who doesn't
(01:47):
follow the CEO rules, the CEOrulebook of business.
So for me, my people are very,very, very important than over
money.
So you know, that's where theanti-CEO.
Everybody loved it and sincethen I've been sticking to it.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, so just being more approachable, yes, more
approachable.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
In fact, our policies start with people first and
then we look at the money.
So comes the second, not thefirst one.
Um, we make sure that all thepolicies, we all, sit together.
So it's more like not followingthe uh, the business rule book,
but trying to create our own.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So that's why yeah, no, I love that.
I just wanted to ask about itand get an idea.
Um, it sounds like, you know,because I think a lot of times
our ego, um, we want the titleright, we want the title,
especially in the corporateworld.
Right, the title uh, vp, svp,you know uh, ceo, uh, president
(02:41):
of this, and that, like the, the, the titles, um, you know, make
us feel, can make us feel good,right, um, temporarily Right,
but I love the fact that youhave you're anti, that you want
to, um, you know, kind of uhhave a healthy ego about
yourself and realizing like,yeah, I, you know, I am decision
(03:04):
maker, I am the person thatruns the company, but I'm no
different than the rest of theteam.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Absolutely yeah, and I love the word when you say ego
, that, yeah, many times we allget hung up with our position.
The moment you are out of job,you're not that person, so it's
so important to look at us morethan the positions that we hold.
It's just a temporary thing,that there are certain roles
that you need to play and that'sall.
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I love it so tell me this obviously I've kind of
introduced you your titles anddifferent things like that, but
but who is kudan um and how doeshe spend his time today?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
so usually I I have my own startup, as I've already
mentioned, so I spend like threeto four hours a day onto my
business.
I'm trying to create a globalbusiness out of it.
It's a creative agency.
We do a lot of animation, video, creative works for all over
the world.
But on the other side, thesecond half of my day goes
working with the businessconsultants, coaching, um, you
(04:06):
know, trying to help people,creating, designing their own
life, and, uh yeah, and allthese knowledges I'm trying to
put in a book.
So that keeps me quite occupiedover the day yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So you um, it's pretty interesting.
You are a creative at heartright, yes.
You know you make content, youcreate, but also, too, you
actually help people design andcreate a life as well.
Yes, right, yeah, walk methrough that.
I know you have the fivepillars.
(04:40):
I've seen six pillars that youtalked about recently on
LinkedIn that I saw the fivepillars of life.
Walk me through that.
And what are those pillars thatpeople can start to design?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Lovely, ok, so I see somebody has really done his
homework, so thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
That's what what we do.
I didn't do homework that wellin school, but yeah, so I do
homework for sure yes, yeah,yeah, no, that's pretty nice to
know.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Uh, that, uh, at least you have done some kind of
, put an effort to know, and I'msure your audience would love
all the effort that you'reputting in your podcast.
Now, coming to the pillar, uh,you know, for me, at core,
everything is about people.
So there are three P's that Iusually talk about it's the
people, perspective and thepossibilities.
(05:32):
So, if you are really honest tothe people around you and if
you're open to the perspectivesaround things happening, and you
know there are a lot ofpossibilities that open up.
So this is my mule mantra, mykey element of how I drive life
now creating.
So the usually idea comes that,hey, everybody tells, hey, this
is a good life, this is a badlife, but how should you reach
(05:55):
to design a life that you want?
Right?
That's actually theactionability part and that's
where I created six pillars.
You're right.
In fact it was five.
Gradually I evolved into six.
Is that the first one is yourphysical well-being, where it's
the body.
You know, however smart we are,intelligent we are, but the
(06:16):
body which is carrying yourbrain.
So that is the first one.
Then the next comes is youremotions, which is the mental
part.
However we talk, that may bethe male, female or any
nationality.
You know, emotions do dominateus.
Then comes is theprofessionalism.
So third one is professional,the fourth one is financial, the
(06:36):
fifth is your relational, andthen is the social.
So why I point out all thesethings is that you know, uh, the
six may sound too much to startwith, but that's where, when I
sit with the founders or when Isit with the business leaders, I
ask them just whatever is thefirst two pillars that you want
(06:58):
to work in?
The problem is that when youdon't know about these pillars,
some of the pillars remainsneglected forever in life.
Okay, many a times people thinkthat if they are professionally
good, the finances willautomatically happen, which
might not be the case.
No right, uh, yeah and uh.
For example, when I quit my job, everybody was surprised and
(07:19):
saying hey, kundan, it is sogood to see that you got the
financial freedom so young.
And I said said, how do youknow?
They said that you must haveearned a lot of money.
I said no, I just cut myexpenses.
And so there are so many ways.
But we never have been taughtin school to think in these
terms.
And then the other one as inthe most neglected and mostly
(07:43):
when the technology is going upis the social and relation side.
It's getting impacted so much.
So I was in US for quite a whileand I see that loneliness is
such a big problem.
However, you know fancy placesyou have, and, of course, the
whole ecosystem is designed thatyou can survive and you can
actually do pretty good beingalone, but then, end of the day,
(08:03):
there is a human need.
So that's where when I startworking with and this is for all
the audience as well you maylist down all the six pillars,
but you can start with any oneor two where you really think
you are struggling.
Yeah, so, for example, anybodyis coming out of the college.
I think working on yourprofessional pillar is very
important, right, and when I saythat you can focus like 60, 70,
80 percent of your energy overthere, but at least have those
(08:26):
20 invested in your physicalwell-being, emotional well-being
, relational well-being, andthat helps yeah, you know I, um,
I really like this because itbreaks down things in life.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Um, yes, to make life simple, right, and you can kind
of start to see what's mostimportant and what's kind of the
excess that you can kind oftrim and keep your life lean and
simple.
Yes, so you talk about physical, emotional, financial,
professional, relational andsocial.
(09:02):
And the first thing that comesto my mind is I'm not sure if
you read the book.
It's a book Six Pillars ofSelf-Esteem, and one of the
pillars is to live consciouslyhow you help your self-esteem.
A lot of people aren'tconscious of how to live
(09:25):
consciously.
I feel like these steps helpfolks break down how they can be
more conscious in their day today.
Right, you talk aboutprofessional.
Yes, growing your professionallife could help you financially,
but if your spending habits arebad and you're not conscious of
your spending, then yourfinancial pillar is not great.
(09:49):
And so we have to really breakdown each pillar to be able to
understand, hey, what is it thatI want at each pillar and how
can I be more conscious of myphysical, emotional,
professional, financial anddifferent pillars, right?
So, yes, you mentioned to startslow.
(10:10):
Right, focus on one to twopillars.
Let's say, somebody is very new.
They haven't even thought ofthis concept, right?
Do they start with the physicalRight, or do they start with
what they're struggling at most?
Or do they start with whatthey're already excelling at and
(10:31):
kind of start there?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
So see the core of.
First of all, thank you fortalking about the book.
I'll try to find some summaryand read about it, because I
have some dyslexic issues so Idon't read much book, but it was
great to know that somebodyelse has also written about it
and the title sound fascinating.
Just to in one word, ifsomebody approaches me and asks
me when, that hey, kundan, Iwant to design my life is the
(10:57):
first step of consciousness.
That, hey, you are now beingconscious about your life.
So that's my entry point.
I just, you know, tap somebodyon the way and say that, do you
want to about your life?
So that's my entry point.
I just you know, tap somebodyon the way and say that do you
want to design your life?
No, people are like uh, youknow, they have.
Everybody has their ownpriorities.
So, unless you have taken aconscious choice that I have to
take control of my life I thinkthat is the first point which
(11:19):
you said and that was prettybrilliant, so I just wanted to
emphasize on that.
Coming to the point, see, it'swhy the biggest problem I see in
individuals is that supposetoday, josh for some reason
becomes very famous.
Okay, the problem with thesurrounding is that they'll just
start copying you,irrespectively knowing what kind
(11:39):
of childhood childhood josh had, what kind of system uh, josh
lives in, what kind of person heis.
The problem with everybody isthat we all look for a silver
bullet that say, hey, you haveto walk 10 000 step every day,
and everybody starts doing it.
You have to wake up at 5 am andeverybody starts doing it.
Uh, no, these things are good,but you've got to understand
your system.
(12:00):
Okay, what system you'reoperating in.
And nobody understands youbetter than yourself.
Yeah, if you don't understandyourself, if you don't
understand yourself for anyreason, uh, trust me, nobody.
It's very hard for anybody tohelp you.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Okay yes, okay, so real quick, because you make me
coming to the yeah okay, goahead.
Yeah, yes, so, um, you said,first being conscious, then to
being self-aware.
Yes, right, okay, all right.
So I just want to make sure no,you see the real part.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
The problem is that I'll be using a lot of keywords.
The problem is, in life,everything is connected like a
net.
You pull one string and therest.
The tension would be on all thestrings.
I'm just trying to give someorder to it is.
Coming back to your questionthat, out of six pillars, if
anybody has to start, the firstthing is that you have to look
at yourself, that what isbothering you the most.
If your health is not keepingyou well, it doesn't matter how
(12:55):
smart you are in your school,you know your that pillars takes
the precedence, that you got tofocus on your physical
well-being first, okay, okay,let's say you are everything.
You are physically fit, you area brilliant student or a
brilliant professional, but forsome reason you are angry for
everything.
You are just irritated witheverything.
(13:15):
You got to start with theemotional pillar.
It doesn't matter, because thatis what is shadowing you, all
the good things that you aredoing.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
So this is how, when I sit with somebody, I think it
becomes very evident within anhour or two that which pillar to
start with.
Yeah, yeah, first of all, um,that's great, and because I one
thing you mentioned aboutself-awareness yes, a lot of us
are very influenced byeverything we see, yeah, and so
(13:46):
you mentioned, hey, people arewaking up at five.
I need to wake up at five, yeah, yeah, people are doing this
for their workouts.
I need to do this for myworkouts.
People eat this way.
I should eat this way.
People are doing this withtheir money.
I should do this with my money,right?
Instead of understanding who Iam, absolutely.
(14:06):
What can people do to reallyunderstand who they are, though?
Because I feel like it's peopleout there.
They're like man, I don't knowhow to really understand who I
am or become more self-aware.
What do you think people can doto start to become more
self-aware?
What do you think people can doto start to become more more
self-aware?
Okay?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
so, um, the one line answer is that you got to find
some reason to spend time withyourself.
Okay, yeah, it's nowadays.
If you see, a lot of people areaddicted, a lot of addictions
are going up, or the loud musicor some of the other reason.
The moment you leave people 15minutes to stay in a room
(14:47):
without engaging in anything,can you just sit with yourself?
It becomes chaotic in the head.
Why?
Because there's so much ofnoise going in.
It may be about the socialreasons, or it may be about your
past relationship, or it couldbe x, it could be job, but it is
so much noisy in here thatdoesn't ever let you sit you
with yourself.
(15:07):
So the simplest thing is that,if you can find a reason to
spend time with yourself, no, Ijust want to let all the clutter
come, but I'll sort it out.
Hey, this is my problem.
This is how I want to deal withit.
This is what happened in mychildhood.
This is what is happening in myjob, but can you make peace
with it?
That is the prime start of it.
Sorry, and exercise wise.
(15:31):
What I do is to all the coachesthat I work with.
I tell them can you listen toyourself when you speak, so
usually people don't listen.
They speak very fast or some ofthe other reasons, so the
auditory senses are disconnectedfrom the listening senses and
you never know what kind ofstupid thing you have said.
(15:51):
Sometimes you are arrogant, canyou?
Can you feel yourself arrogant?
Sometimes you are very happyand good going, can you?
Can you hear yourself out?
I think that is the start ofself-awareness and and from
there it just builds up trust me.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yes, um, I think that's huge, being able to spend
time with yourself.
And you said don't engage inanything, don't go on your phone
, don't watch tv.
Yes, just kind of sit insilence.
And and I've definitely donethat I remember listening to
Deepak Chopra, okay, and hementioned about spending time.
(16:33):
Can you spend 30 minuteswithout engaging in anything,
just sitting in silence?
And here's why I think peoplestruggle with.
You said you got to find timeto.
You have to find a reason tospend time alone is it is tough
because of how much is going onin your mind fears, you know
(16:57):
past situations, future thingshappening and it can be tough to
quiet that down.
But after a long period of timeor after doing it consistently,
eventually your mind starts tobecome quiet and you do start to
, like you said, hear your ownvoice, as opposed to hearing a
(17:20):
bunch of voices on TV, socialmedia, of how you should live
your life and what you value.
I think that's very, very huge,absolutely.
So talk about this, the 2% rule, walk us through that.
(17:44):
What, what is that?
How can we make our lives?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
better.
Oh, you're awesome.
I am so happy that I'm gettingto sit with you and talk to you,
lovely, lovely josh.
So, uh, two percent change isthe small change, yeah.
So what happens is when I sitwith, so there is a complete
excel sheet where I designthings with my uh, you know,
with whoever I sit with, sothere is a complete excel sheet
where I design things with my,you know, with whoever I sit
with, whoever I consult.
(18:06):
So on that sheet we design that.
How can we just try to progresstwo percent every month?
So let's say, if you can walkonly five thousand step, can we
increase every week by twopercent, which is just the
hundred steps, okay, and maybeby the end of the year you are
already walking 7,000 steps,okay.
(18:26):
And the changes actually startwith very small, tiny changes
that when you wake up, can youmake up your bed, right?
Can you make sure that you knowyou're walking two steps extra?
Can you make sure that when youare saving $100, can you save
$120?
Okay.
So these are the tiny, tinysteps changes that we do and I
call it a two percent rule oflife.
(18:48):
That is first one part of it.
The major part of it is in therelationship.
Um, I see a lot of uhrelationship where a lot of
fight goes on, and I am somebody, I do not fight, I do not
indulge in any kind of arguments, and usually what I've seen is
in relationships is that, youknow, two people in
(19:08):
relationships are not asdifferent as claimed to be.
Oh my God, you are so differentthan me, and I call it.
Usually that difference ishardly 2%.
So let's take that example.
Is that Josh is dating somebody?
Okay, and pardon me because I'mtalking to you as I'm taking
your example Right, and you havea girlfriend or a boyfriend,
(19:30):
whatever.
So in that case, whatever youare in relationship with
somebody.
Now what happens is, for somereason, you get indulged into a
fight.
Let's say there is, you are.
Okay, let me put some a littlebit, let me restart this one.
Okay, I'll put it on me.
So let's say I am somebody youknow I am 70% kind and I have a
(19:54):
girlfriend who is 72% kind.
Okay, and usually that's howpeople vary.
What happens is I see a puppy onthe road and I say, oh my god,
the puppy is hurt, let me get ittreated and live it back.
But my girlfriend says no, no,no, how can you do that?
Let's take it home because thispuppy is hurt.
And I say no, my father islittle uh allergic to the puppy,
(20:15):
so it doesn't make sense and wedon't know what kind of puppy
it is.
And the my girlfriend mightfight back and saying how, as in
?
Uh, you know unkind you are.
How much uh that?
So usually when people aretogether, it's hardly two
percent people are different.
Unless I am kind, I cannotattract a kind, kind, as in, you
(20:38):
know very unkind people,exactly, okay.
So whenever the group formedit's.
usually people are of thesimilar principle, similar
values, correct, but when webreak off, we break off because
of those 2% of difference thatsurfaced and suddenly the
emotion banged and made it looklike, oh my God, I cannot live
with you.
So these are the two thingsthat I try to club together.
(21:00):
Where I talk about 2% of life,where I talk about very small,
tiny things, I try to bringpeace into the world and I've
seen some dramatic changes inpeople's life.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, just 2%, just 2%.
Trust me, yeah, just take thenext step right.
Yes, yeah, yes, it's soimportant and this is something
that I've been practicing, Iwould say, maybe in the last few
months, because I felt liketrying to make this big
(21:32):
difference or this big jump hascan feel very overwhelming, as
opposed to understanding thatI'm on the right path, in the
right direction.
Yeah, and just focusing on thedaily habits yes, small daily
habits that really make yousuccessful, right, yeah, the
(21:57):
smallest.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
I can give another example also.
It's like you know, the, thelottery.
Everybody loves to win alottery, right, we would love if
some, suddenly we get a lotteryand there is, say, million
dollars award money is there, weall would love it.
But can you plan a life that Ionly want to invest, that,
unless I win a lottery, I won'tmove my life ahead.
(22:18):
Right, right, but we still gofor that two percent of job,
that twenty thousand dollar.
If I get a two thousand dollarI get, I'll work for that job
and I will work my way ahead.
Yeah, right, so that's how Isay.
Is that usually, when we planour things, we usually plan for
that lottery finding agirlfriend or a job or a
(22:39):
relation, anything.
We usually plan for thatlottery that maybe I might get
lucky.
But the moment you stop workingfor it like finding a job,
making sure that you're savingbit by bit, creating a life
where the lifestyle you can liveit would be very hard because
the success rate of a lottery isway less than the rest of the
success rate.
(22:59):
So I don't know, if you are onein a million, yes, you can try
that.
If you're not, you're somebodylike me.
Let's work hard and createsomething good for the life yeah
, and people don't realize so.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
And these small habits, this small two percent
over time, it compounds overtime.
Absolutely, yeah, right,exactly the same.
And then, like you said you,you look up a year from now and
you've changed the direction ofyour life, right, yeah, just by
doing small progression overtime, right.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I am the biggest testament of it because I lived
and I applied this 2% on all thesix pillars and it serves me
tremendously amazing.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, I love that.
Talk to me about this, though,because the small 2% and these
habits, they can be tough tokeep up with, right.
I know for me, one thing thatI've always it's always been a
struggle is the stamina to keepup with these habits, Right.
(24:07):
The waking up early yeah, I cando it for two weeks, but that
third week it's kind of tough,right.
Yeah, a lot of different habitsthat are really good for us.
I know a lot of people canrelate to being able to have the
ability to do, you know, veryhealthy things and all these
(24:27):
pillars, but over time it can betough right, and I know for you
you talk, you're big intocreating systems right, a
systematic way of thinking,right.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Walk me through that.
Okay, I just wanted life tosolve me and I found this is the
only way.
So, yeah, I actually I belongto a very kind of economically
uh how could I say a backwardplace, when I, when I was born,
when I was growing up, and uh,even like in india, a place
(25:01):
called biharar, we wereeconomically very weak and I
really wanted a life, not onlyfor myself but for everybody
around me.
So I started observing peoplevery closely, okay, and what
I've seen that when people, as achild, you have so many of
dreams, but as an adult, youjust start giving up on things,
(25:22):
thinking that, hey, uh, this ishow life is.
Uh, I'm trying to be practical.
Um, you know, this is notsomething for me and I, somehow
I never gave up on to that.
I started traveling all acrossthe globe.
I spent quite a while in europe.
I was in london, I was in usfor four years, okay, and and
(25:42):
somehow, you know, it was very Iwas very lucky that people used
to invite me to their home fordinner.
So I observe people and whatI'm talking to you is the
learning from all of those, allmy travel, all my journey, and
connecting those dots, all right.
So when you talk about.
(26:03):
You know, usually when theytalk about most of the people
talk about, everything is therein the head.
But there is one more importantinformation I'll tell you is
that not the whole decisionmaking happens with the head.
Do you know that?
Yeah, Okay, there is somethingcalled yeah, sorry, there is
something called muscle memory.
(26:23):
I believe muscle memory is muchstronger than your brain.
If something gets into yourmuscle like toothbrush, you know
brushing every morning or itcould be an addiction, or it
could be any damn thing If itgets into your muscles, it
(26:43):
happens automatically.
What we call is a reflectionaction that whenever I sneeze,
my hand goes up.
Nobody has to teach me, nobodyhas to.
Okay, when so I started workingon my muscle memory that hey,
all right, and suddenly then itand that's automatic button for
me.
I don't have to force myself orconvince myself that I have to
do it, but it became me.
(27:04):
That's how I am now am I makingsense?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
No, you're making total sense.
And and here here's a I haven'theard muscle memory since
playing basketball Right, andyes, you build skillsets where
it becomes muscle memory.
Right, where at first it isvery tough.
You, um, hey, you learn how todribble, you learn how to shoot.
Maybe you have a coach whoencourages you to change the way
(27:33):
you shoot a basketball Right,yeah, and it's very tough at
first, but you have to keeppracticing it and the more reps
you do, it becomes muscle memory.
Where you don't think about howto shoot in a game, it becomes
muscle memory.
And so you talk about creatinghabits in your life.
You're focused on doing it sothat you can create that muscle
(27:57):
memory where you don't thinkabout it.
Um, yes, and we have a lot ofhabits like this.
Now you, you probably um,unlock your phone and go to your
favorite app.
Your mind really didn't tellyou to do that.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
It's just muscle, yeah yeah, yeah, so true,
exactly.
So this is what is happeningthere.
A lot of things if you sit.
So what I do is, before I go tobed, I sit around 15 minutes
with myself.
That how my day was.
I reflect back yeah and I thinkthis is the greatest tool a
human can have is to reflectback.
I'll tell you one interestingthing.
Do you know what is the majordifference between the rest of
(28:30):
the species and human?
What makes us human?
Speaker 1 (28:33):
uh, I would say choice, the ability.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I say just two things the power of imagination and
the long-term memory.
The rest of the humans, therest of the species they cannot
hold the long-term memory.
Even a child is very happybecause they don't have a
long-term memory.
They are crying and then theystart laughing because they
cannot hold the grudges.
Our life is pathetic as anadult because we hold long-term
(28:59):
memories.
The moment you start forgettingthings, you are happy.
Trust me, the way I use mylong-term memory is that I sit
in the night, I reflect back mywhole day and that gives me a
perspective that what did I dowith you know?
(29:20):
Was it a conscious choice orwas it an unconscious choice?
So there are many times when Isee my screen time going four
hours and up and I absolutelyhad no idea.
That just means my muscle isgetting trained for something
bad, something which I don'twant.
So what should I do to reverseit?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
so these are the small, small things which I
really kind of encourage peopleand these things do really work
yeah, 100%, and and it goes backto living consciously right,
yes, absolutely, but I also lovethe fact that you are being
able to put the unconscious inyour favor.
Yes, right, yeah, and so thatis what people should focus on
(30:04):
is building muscle memory forthings that work in your favor
and try to avoid, you know,making unconscious and building
muscle memory and things thatdon't go in your favor and try
to avoid, um, you know, makingunconscious and building muscle
memory and things that don't goin your favor correct.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
So this also comes from.
So you know anybody you musthave.
Everybody knows that 80 of usis getting controlled by
unconscious behavior of us.
For example, what kind of childyou were.
You have no control over whatkind of childhood conditioning
you had.
Yeah, but that contributes somuch about who you are today.
Yeah, 100 okay.
It is very important to go backthere, talk to your child, you
(30:40):
know, and say that, hey, it'sokay, it's okay what happened,
but now I'm grown up I can takecare of you and these are the
things that you can change.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Your unconscious behaviors, your muscle memory
yeah, very powerful, trust meyeah, and you realize, uh, you
know, especially when youjournal about your childhood or
you start to, like you said, youstart to um, reflect on your
day and see, wait, why, why didI do that?
What did I feel this way?
Why do I do things a certainway?
(31:07):
And you realize, like it doesit, it comes from childhood,
maybe it came from your parentsand that's how they do things,
and so you just do it justbecause they do it, and you can
start to really change the wayyou do certain things and how
you think.
Right, to go back to one, whyyou have certain behaviors and
(31:32):
where they come from.
Right, and a lot of times itcomes from, you know, childhood
and that conditioning, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yes.
So, since I have given so muchof time and thinking because I
really get excited when I seepeople doing good in their life,
but for, as in, let's say, ouraudience, this is a very good
start point as to just toreflect, spend some time with
yourself and then try to takeone pillar at a time.
I think that's a very goodstart tool.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, yeah, one pillar at a time, and but you
know how it helps me think aboutthe pillars that you've named?
Is that it?
It helps organize life right?
I think about hey, if you thinkabout your, your year and the
goals that you have, you canreally take these pillars and
break it down to really organizehow you want to live your life
(32:20):
in each pillar.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Absolutely, yeah so mostly I've seen some really
good books, but they are so muchjargon heavy or they are so, uh
, you know, technically oriented.
I want to make things simplerso that, uh, technically
oriented, I want to make thingssimpler so that, uh, after you
know, I can talk to students, Ican talk to children, and in my
beta reading I have a studentshe is hardly 12 years old and
she was so excited about readingthe book that nobody taught me
(32:43):
ever.
And these things should betaught at the school level and
these are not so complex.
Once you start telling.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
If you can teach somebody the whole biology and
physics and mathematics, I thinkthese things could be taught
yeah, 100, it can be, it can be,and, um, so I I do want to go
back to what you said.
You said that starting with onepillar, that is, the is that
the advice that you would givefolks?
Start with one pillar, and whatpillar?
(33:10):
And the pillar that you saidthat they're struggling with?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
yes, yeah, because, see, I can say anything and you
might take me.
Say, for example, for somereason you are convinced that,
hey, kundan thinks quite a good.
What will happen is, blindly,you'll start following me.
It won't serve you.
Yeah, the problem with and thisis the hero message that I want
to tell to everybody throughyour channel is that, please,
you got to be your own coach.
That is the prime thing.
(33:35):
It's okay to hire somebody forjust a few months and take
advice from somebody, but yougot to understand yourself.
You got to be your own coachand even if I say something
which might sound very fancy,it's not going to work.
However, you know, universal itis that everybody should wake up
early in the morning.
Yes, it has been proven thatevery but the point is, if your
(33:56):
biology is not supporting it,you'll be struggling the whole
day just to follow.
So that is why, understandingand knowing your biology,
because, end of the day, whenyou do something good, you'll
feel good and that is much morepermanent.
Yeah, so much more permanent.
Yeah, so you got, yeah, you gotto ask yourself that what I'm
struggling with.
You got to identify.
I'm glad I hope nobodystruggles so nobody has to
(34:17):
follow these things.
But if you are, if you are andthis is something a loop okay,
you don't have to struggle aswhat kundan is struggling.
You have to struggle based onyour life.
Okay, if you think it is aproblem for you, it is a problem
for you.
Nobody else should define that.
How come you?
This thing is becoming aproblem for you?
It doesn't matter, they are notliving your life, yeah, so,
(34:39):
yeah, that's that's my uh.
Advice would be that you youcannot have a pill that you just
open the bottle, popped it upand just swallow it with the
water and things will startworking.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
You have to decide which pill I have to start with
first yeah, 100, and I, and Ilove that and and you know you
mentioned this because this ispowerful yeah, um, a lot of
times and in, we want to getvalidation for how we live our
(35:09):
lives, which is why we kind ofdo what other people do right,
opposed to quieting our mind,understanding how we want to
live our life, design our ownlife and not worry about how
other people view our life.
Right, and I think that'ssomething powerful that you just
mentioned.
There is, we live our life in away of wanting validation.
(35:33):
Yeah, and it's not a lifethat's true to us, right right.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
So everything, um, you know social validation is a
beautiful thing.
So now to the point.
I am like everything in life isamazing.
You just have to understandwhether it is healthy for you or
unhealthy for you, okay.
So, for example, if you aretrying to be in a wrong space
let's say you're taking drugs,you are doing some criminal
activity getting a socialvalidation is very important,
(35:59):
because people will discourageyou from doing that, which is a
good thing, yeah, okay.
But the moment you're trying todo something you want to be
entrepreneur, you want to sing asong, you want to do again, the
same society will discourageyou.
At that point it is not good.
So the only validation is is itmaking you a better person?
Is the validation?
If the social pressure ismaking you a good person, please
(36:20):
do it.
If the social validation is notmaking you a good person, stop
taking validations I love whatyou say.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
You say everything in life is amazing.
It's just dependent on is ithealthy for you or not.
You can use it for you, right?
So is it making you better?
And is it coming from the rightpeople, right?
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yes, yeah, so gradually if they are helping
you, if they are serving you tobe a better person, they are the
right people yeah, yeah, yeah,I love that, I love that.
It.
People, yeah, yeah, yeah, Ilove that.
I love, yeah.
It's such a simple framework.
It is right for therelationship.
The person might be your close.
It could be your sibling.
It could be your parents.
If they are not making you abetter person, they are not the
(37:02):
right people.
No, it could be, you know.
It could be your girlfriend.
It could be your job.
If it is not making you abetter human being, that is not
the right job you're into.
Right.
If any emotions which you aregetting in your head, if that is
not making you a better person,that is not the right emotion.
You had got, you got.
You got to kill it.
That's huge.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
That is huge.
It could be as simple yeah yeah, it is simple.
Um, even when you talk aboutyour own thoughts, right?
If it's not help, if it's notserving you, it's not.
Yeah, not yours, it's not rightabsolutely so.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Why I'm simplifying this is because a lot of people
get messed up into learningabout, you know, 10 types of
emotions and the relationships,and no, you, just.
You just have to talk toyourself and say is this making
me a better person?
Speaker 1 (37:48):
done.
Yeah, yeah, and you know it's alot of times these, these
thoughts can be uncomfortable,right.
So people that, the people thatwant to, the people that are
the best for you yeah, they canstretch you to where it is.
It can be uncomfortable whenyou go back to the folks that
make you comfortable and don'treally look to help you and kind
(38:15):
of give you feedback that maykind of hurt your feelings in
the moment but will help you bebetter in the long term, right,
as opposed to people who arejust allowing you to stay
comfortable with staying thesame right, no, absolutely
stunning.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
A very good point you have made, josh, that.
Yeah, a simple doesn't mean itis going to be comfortable.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Yeah, yeah, and yes, it does help you.
Does this help you?
Yes, but it can also be hard tohear and uncomfortable, right?
Yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
So this is the way life tests you that.
Do you have that stamina tostand tall with that life?
Yeah, you know, if everythingcomes easy to you, how will the
life differentiate, whether theyshould support you or they
should not, if you wanteverything easy.
So this is the way life testsyou, and it tests you very hard
for one, one and a half year.
(39:08):
After that, life startsrewarding you, you.
So, if you have patience forthose time I think because I
have done mathematics and 18months is the time, uh, which I
have seen it could be two monthshere and there.
Uh, it could be 16 for somepeople, it could be 20 for some
people, but usually I have seen,after 18 months, if you have
really life have tested you, ifyou really mean what you're
(39:30):
trying to say, it startsrewarding you.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
So stay with it, even when itgets tough.
Just get past that wall and itwill become beautiful after that
.
Yes, yeah, 100%, I love it.
Where can people follow you andhear more about your journey?
I know you have, um the podcast, your company, um.
(39:55):
You have a book that's comingout.
I would love for you to kind ofshare that with the folks,
lovely so I'm sorry, earlier Iwas not at all on social media.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
I very recently joined because, uh, my friends
started pushing me that I shouldtalk more, I should put my
words out there, um, and that'swhere I'm on social media.
So I'm not big on social mediaas of now, especially not much
on Instagram.
But, yes, all over the Googleyou can find me by the name
unbinary life or unbinary kundan, so I'm sure I would request
(40:27):
Josh to put my link whenever weare releasing this episode.
Yeah, um, and binary is anotherphilosophy that the.
I'll work on to that and I'llexplain it some other time.
At the same time, I'm trying toput all my thoughts into my book
so that you can get an access,and again, the hero message is
about that.
You got to be your own.
Uh, you know, coach, you got tounderstand yourself and, trust
(40:48):
me, the life opens upbeautifully after that, um, you
get everything out of life agood relationship, a good family
, a good future, a meaningfullife.
So, yeah, I'm somebody whoreally enjoy putting people
before me, so let's see.
So, other than that, yeah,coming back, uh, talking about
the book and about, so, by thename of unbinary kundan, you can
(41:09):
find me all over the internet.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
It's like u-n-b-i-n-a-r-y k-u-n-d-a-n yeah
, okay, yeah, I will make sure Iput that in the footnotes.
And then again, um, you know,obviously I know you got the
youtube channel linkedin.
I know we connected on linkedinand then you have some some
great content on YouTube.
(41:33):
So I was able to kind of checkout some of your videos and look
at your podcast and look atyour LinkedIn, and so you have
some social media stuff that Iwas able to take a look at and I
know that will help folks out.
So, kudan, you had a veryunique perspective on a lot of
things right, and you made itvery simple, so I really
(41:58):
appreciate you adding value andI definitely know that this
episode will definitely help alot of folks.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
I'm sure, and for all of you, josh, I absolutely
enjoyed this episode.
I would like to put my word outthere, sorry For all of you,
josh, I absolutely enjoyed thisepisode.
I would like to, you know, putmy word out there, sorry.
So I've been doing a lot ofpodcasts, but I thoroughly
enjoyed this one.
It's not only what you asked.
You were very good with thequestions and your perspectives.
(42:26):
They are so clear and I'mreally hopeful that we'll get
time again, that we'll connectand I would love someday I can
invite, get time again, thatwe'll connect and I would love
someday I can invite you sowe'll stay connected and the
kind of hard work you areputting for your audience.
This is amazing, so I'm sureyour audience is going to
applaud that.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Well, everybody, I hope youenjoyed the show and we'll see
you soon.
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