May 22, 2025 • 42 mins
Catherine Giovanni shares her powerful forgiveness system that transforms mental health by releasing people from our thoughts and reclaiming our authentic power. She teaches the step-by-step process of forgiveness, explaining how to start with easy forgiveness targets before tackling the most challenging ones.
• Forgiveness defined as "wanting someone out of your head," not reconciliation or condoning behavior
• The link between forgiveness and business success—clearing personal resentments directly impacts professional opportunities
• How to rate forgiveness targets on a 1-10 scale and work systematically through them
• Forgiving the energy around people and situations, not just the people themselves
• Breaking down "unforgivable" memories into components you can forgive individually
• Why forgiveness doesn't mean forgetting or resuming relationships with harmful people
• The science of anger as "toxic" to physical health through the Japanese Water Study findings
• Limiting forgiveness work to 10 people per night to avoid "energy sickness"
• How forgiveness attracts better people while some relationships naturally fall away
You can find Catherine's book "The Ultimate Path to Forgiveness: Unlocking Your Power" on Amazon in ebook, paperback, and audiobook formats. Visit katherinegovani.com for private sessions and join her newsletter "The Thriving Times" to learn about her upcoming forgiveness books.
Follow Playing Injured on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/playinginjured/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, Welcome to another episode of Playing
Engine.
We have a three-timeaward-winning best-selling
author of 12 books, aninternational speaker,
transformation and forgivenesscoach, Catherine Giovanni.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
So I always love kicking the show off with who is
Catherine and how does shespend her time today.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm a forgiveness coach, and the fact that I can
call myself a forgiveness coachprobably implies that the
universe has given me entirelytoo many things to forgive.
So yeah, you know, I am a, I, Iam a, I am a teacher.
At this point, if you want, thereally one word answer is I'm a
(00:48):
teacher.
That's really what it boilsdown to.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
You know it is something you know.
We all need to forgive, we alldo Right, we all have certain
things that we need to give.
I've never heard of somebodywho wants to teach people how to
forgive right, but I think somany of us are either stubborn,
we don't know how we don't need,we don't know that we need to
(01:14):
right, we're not aware of it,and so it's so many things that
I feel like you can show folksabout forgiveness when it comes
to healing and it comes togrowing, and so I guess I want
to understand from you first ofall, how did you even get into
this work of forgiveness?
How did this happen for you?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Well, first of all, you're absolutely spot on right.
Everybody teaches you,everybody teaches you.
You have to forgive your parents, your pastor you have to
forgive your parents, yourpastor, your teachers, Okay, how
, they just say to do it.
Nobody tells us how.
(01:55):
And then what?
If you don't want to, then whatdo you do?
What if it's unforgivable?
So, on a 10 scale, with 10being unforgivable dumpster fire
and one being the easiestperson to forgive, Everybody's
thinking of their number 10person, and that's why nobody
wants to do it, Because you'rethinking of that one person that
hurt you the most.
It's totally fair and in myworld you don't have to forgive
(02:16):
your number 10 people.
Why?
Because there's a lot of people, places and things I did say
places and things, Please don'tclick off that you can forgive
before you even get to thatperson.
So how did I get here?
Well, in the eighth grade myparents were very pickled,
meaning they were ragingalcoholics, and I was terribly
bullied in school because I wasdifferent.
(02:36):
So in the eighth grade I triedto commit suicide and a friend
of mine pulled me out and I justspent the next decade kind of
floating through life, kind oflike you know, like you're
floating in water, just kind ofdrifting.
And you know those teenagersI'm talking about, we all know
them.
And then one day my mother felldown a flight of stairs, broke
her hip and ended up in thehospital, and even my mother
(02:58):
couldn't get a gin and tonic inthe hospital.
So she dried out and we senther to rehab and we spent the
next three years closer thanclose, closer than sisters.
We practically finished eachother's sentences and we forgave
each other.
And then she died of breastcancer, which I eventually got
it in 2012.
And I knew beyond a shadow of adoubt that if I didn't change
(03:21):
what I was doing, I was going todie.
I knew it in my gut, so I quitdrinking.
It was the only New Year'sresolution your girl here ever
kept.
I've been sober 35 years andwhen you go into the rooms,
you're told to make amends,You're told to forgive.
Okay, you're just throwing theword at me.
I was shy.
I'm an extrovert and introvertnow because I taught myself but
(03:44):
I was really shy and remember wedidn't have technology.
So you had two choices.
If I could text those people, Iwould have done it in a
heartbeat, but I couldn't dothat.
You could either call and riskgetting yelled at, or you had to
see them in person and getyelled at.
So who wants that?
So I quietly forgave people allalone in my apartment.
(04:07):
I was in New York City at thetime and I accidentally stumbled
on to my forgiveness system thefirst part of it and from there
it just kind of took hold,because the more people I
forgave, the better I felt andthe more people I forgave I'm a
serial entrepreneur.
I've had a lot of businessesand the more people I forgave of
(04:28):
my personal life, the moremoney I made.
I went to college and back thenthis is like 20, 30 years ago I
thought there should be nocorrelation.
Forgiving people and cleaningmy personal life up should not
affect my business bottom line.
And it did.
It was a direct correlation.
So I continued that path untiltoday.
(04:48):
I stumbled my partner and Ifigured out the secret sauce and
the exact way to forgive astep-by-step system.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, and so that's what I was going to ask is why
is it so important to forgive?
What do you think you unlockedthrough forgiving people?
That unlocked the businesssuccess and the success in other
areas of life.
What was it?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Oh, I love this.
Okay, for anybody who'slistening to the broadcast, I'll
talk you through this.
I'm holding a purple coffee cupto the side of my body.
Now look at my body language,josh.
You know you and I can have aconversation.
You can coach me, and I'm Now.
Look at my body language.
Josh, you know you and I canhave a conversation.
You can coach me, and I'm goingto look at you and say I can
manage my anger.
It's okay, we don't need totalk about my anger.
I got this.
(05:32):
Well, I do, because I'm holdingthis little purple glass of
anger off to the side.
It's easy.
But if I continue to hold on toit and I don't start forgiving
people, humans irritate otherhumans, don't we?
So I'm going to keep puttingmore stuff into the cup.
Now I'm using two whole handsto hold up the cup to the side.
(05:53):
I still can conduct my life, Ican talk to you, I can go out, I
can go to work, but it'sstarting to creep into my
thoughts.
It's starting to take over mylife, and if I still don't
forgive anybody, it's going toget even heavier life.
And if I still don't forgiveanybody, it's going to get even
heavier.
And now I'm holding it in frontof my face.
It's my life has stopped.
It's all I can see.
(06:13):
It's all I can do.
It's creep, it's.
It's full-fledged in my headnow.
It's all I think about.
I'm missing opportunities,money-making opportunities,
because I'm so focused on theanger in my story that I'm
missing the life opportunities,the dream career, the dream
relationship, a good new way tolose weight.
(06:36):
There's a reason to buy the book.
But if you know so, by using mysystem and starting with the
easy people, what I'm doing isnow the glass is off to the side
again.
So now your power is.
Now you're going to be able tosee things again.
You're going to be able to payattention because you're going
to notice things, you're goingto notice opportunities, you're
going to notice people.
(06:57):
So you're literally bringingyour power back and the person
that you came to the planet tobe, that authentic person.
Now you can be it.
Why couldn't you be it before?
Because you couldn't even hearyour intuition.
Men call it their gut feeling.
You couldn't hear it.
Why?
Because anger acts as a shield.
You literally couldn't hearthat little bird in your
(07:19):
shoulder.
So by clearing the anger, nowthe opportunities, and you can
see the opportunities.
You can breathe again.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, you know, I've been thinking about this a lot
over the last month or so.
Is you know our thoughts andwhen we kind of go through the
world, these thoughts that wehave a lot of times come from
past experiences, right, Sure?
They do past experiences right?
(07:46):
Sure, they do.
That's anger, things thatprobably bring us some fear, and
you know, these come from a lotof times, past experiences and
people that we haven't forgivenor we haven't gone back and kind
of cleared that up withourselves so that we can
actually move forward.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I've seen people say you know, josh, you should move
to.
You know you should move toMichigan, you should.
You know whatever, you shouldmove to New York.
You had a bad, bad experiencein New York.
It's a trigger.
So you don't want to move toNew York, but your dream career
is probably there.
All right, you're alreadyshooting yourself in the foot.
So how do you get rid of thetriggers?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, and so that comes from forgiveness.
And so here's another layerRight when it comes to
forgiveness, is you mentionedbefore, like you know, hey,
reaching out to people, callingpeople, texting people, right?
Do you necessarily have toreach out to people if?
If for forgiveness, right?
Um, especially if it'sforgiveness, as we've all heard,
(08:50):
is not necessarily for theother person, right, it's for
yourself and, like we talkedabout, to kind of break these
barriers and, um, reach yourfull authentic self and your
full potential.
Do we have to?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
actually, let me help the stress level of your
audience.
Right now you do not have toreach out and call anybody.
Just because I forgive youdoesn't mean I want a
relationship with you.
I probably don't.
I've probably put barriers andI've put some you know safeties
in place.
Forgiveness doesn't necessarilymean make amends, may not even
(09:33):
be appropriate.
Here's another one.
Just because I forgive you andthis trips up everybody just
because I forgive you doesn'tmean all of a sudden I'm giving
in.
It doesn't mean all of a suddenI'm saying you were right and I
was wrong, and now I'm comingover and it's all good.
I think this stems from ourchildhood, when somebody in the
playground punches you in theeye and the teacher comes over
(09:54):
and says now, children forgiveeach other.
Well, I don't want to.
They just punched me in the eye.
Why should I forgive?
But we're meant to?
And then they tell us to goplay, and I think we all
connected some unseen dots thatshould have never have been
connected, because just becauseI forgive you, I'm doing it for
me, I'm not doing it for them.
It's never for them, in fact,they don't even care.
(10:16):
They're just conducting theirlife.
They don't even know you're madand you're sitting in your
house eating a pint of Ben andJerry's ice cream, which, I
swear to God, should say servingsize one, and not six, I really
say, and we should just say one, right?
So you're the one who is upset.
So here's the formal definition.
For me, forgiveness means Iwant you out of my head.
(10:39):
That's it.
I want you out of my head.
I want to stop thinking aboutyou.
I want to stop crying about you, I want to stop spinning
stories about it.
I want you out of my head,period.
And you don't have to reach outand talk to anybody.
And, that being said, that alsomeans you can forgive dead
(10:59):
people, because where they areor are not doesn't matter a lick
.
If they're alive and well inyour head, it can be forgiven
that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Is is a lot of times, and I've never heard it like
that.
I want you out of my head,right.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
I want you out of my head.
That's the formal definition.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
And I'm releasing it.
I'm releasing it, giving it up,I'm letting it go.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
But it doesn't mean they were right.
It doesn't mean I even want totalk to you.
A lot of people took my fatherwas a number 10 and it took me a
long time to get my fatherforgiven.
This is a marathon, not asprint.
And a podcaster a while backsaid I have a question for you.
Do you have a picture of yourfather in your house?
Really good question.
(11:45):
I, I, I practice what I preachand he died years ago.
Just because I forgave himDoesn't mean I want a
relationship with him if he werealive, and it doesn't mean I
want to look at his pictureevery day.
I have his picture but it's ina cabinet.
It doesn't mean I want therelationship.
Forgiveness means I need to beset free.
(12:07):
Here.
Buddha has probably the bestquote to describe what I'm
talking about.
Anger is like drinking poisonand hoping the other person dies
.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Bottom line.
So this system, which is astep-by-step system, is going to
help you forgive.
And one of the keys and I'll goover the exact system for you
but one of the keys to thesystem is I'm going to start you
with the easy ones.
You save the dumpster fire forlast.
You start with the guy who tookyour parking space at the
grocery store yesterday.
You can forgive that person.
(12:41):
You start with, you know, theclient who yelled at you the
other day.
Well, he was having a bad day.
That was probably not who hereally was.
You can forgive that person.
And you a bad day.
That was probably not who hereally was.
You can forgive that person andyou want their business.
So you should forgive thosepersons.
Hello, you start with the easyones.
Now here is the secret sauce toit.
(13:06):
Einstein proved beyond a showerof doubt that energy is neither
created nor destroyed.
Stay with me.
It just transforms from onething to another.
He also proved, and manyscientists proved, that
everything on our planet,including this little silver
microphone, has an energy fieldaround it.
So why don't people stayforgiven?
Why do you get triggered?
People tell me all the time Idid do the work, I did.
(13:27):
Forgive them.
You did.
You did the work and you got toa place of forgiveness in your
heart.
Then why aren't they stayingforgiven?
Why are you getting triggeredby buildings and by smells and
by seeing, just seeing theirname on Facebook?
Because you didn't forgive theenergy.
The system, one part of thesystem is it's a very simple
(13:48):
mantra I'm a very simple soul.
You don't have to burn incense.
Yes, that's really what youlike to do.
You don't have to hold anycrystals or dance around.
Lest you like to dance and holdcrystals, who am I to judge?
It's a very simple poem.
I want you alone in a room andit simply means I completely
forgive Josh.
I completely forgive the energyaround Josh.
(14:09):
I completely forgive myself.
I forgive the energy aroundmyself, I forgive the energy
around the entire relationship,and so it is amen, go with God,
end it any way you like.
That's part of the system andit's a simple, simple thing.
But forgiveness is like anonion you peel off layers.
There's a lot of layers toforgiveness, lots and lots and
(14:31):
lots of layers.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, and so it's almost like building the
momentum right.
Oh yeah 100%, To eventuallykind of build that forgiveness
muscle, to eventually forgivefolks.
Like you mentioned before.
We hit record forgiving theunforgivable, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
And what if you are the unforgivable?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, yourself, yourself is right there on the
top.
Yeah, I have so many you knowkind of situations that you know
as I build awareness and as Ibuild kind of more understanding
of life.
Right, um, I look at pastexperiences, I'm like man, I
can't believe the way I treatedmyself out of these situations.
Right, you know mistakes thatyou make, forgiving yourself,
(15:29):
right.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That's a big, huge one.
This is the first book of threeand the next book which I just
finished the first draft is mypartner and I are writing it
together and she's got it on herdesk now but it's about how to
forgive yourself and how toforgive the unforgivable and how
to forgive money.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Hello.
So how do we do that?
First of all, I guess the onestarting off with the
unforgivable and I know you said, hey, it's a momentum thing and
obviously it comes with timeand it's a marathon, not a
sprint Getting those big majorblockers out of our head what's
(16:09):
kind of like the practical waysor the tools that folks can
start to use to eventually maybeit's not the first day, maybe
it's, you know, not the first 30days, but what can folks start
to do to eventually get, filterfolks out of their mind or, you
know, get things out of theirmind?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I got your back.
I want everybody to be alone ina room, no little humans, no
big humans with you.
The dog, the cat can be inthere, but nobody else.
And then I want you to dosomething that's going to be
really hard for some of you Iwant you to turn your phone off.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
That's the hardest part.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Off button on that thing.
Okay, and if you're visiblytwitching at the thought of
turning off your phone and I'veseen people twitch in front of
me when I say this, it'sactually kind of entertaining
there there is a button on therewhere you can mute it.
Don't vibrate, because thenit's going to dance in your desk
and you're going to want tolook at it.
Just mute it.
Just don't forget to turn itoff.
Mute when we're done.
(17:07):
Right.
And now I want you to get apiece of paper and a pen.
Again, I know you're twitching.
You want the PC, you wanttechnology.
Years and years ago there was astudy done at Harvard University
with a group of kids about 30of them or something.
Half the kids were told to justsay their goals out loud to the
(17:28):
room.
The other half were told towrite them down on a piece of
paper, and then they followedthese kids through the years and
the kids that wrote those goalsdown on a piece of paper were
twice as successful as thosepeople that didn't.
So there's some kind of magicthat happens when you literally
write it on a piece of paper.
So get a piece of paper and apen and I want you to write a
(17:49):
list of all the people you thinkyou need to forgive of paper
and a pen.
And I want you to write a listof all the people you think you
need to forgive, and I know theunforgivables will be right at
the top.
That's fair.
Mine were too.
But keep going and don't judgethe list.
If you write a list, if you comeup with a name and it says
Billy, don't judge the list anddon't judge the name that you
just wrote down.
You probably knew a Billy atsome point in your life and you
(18:11):
were mad at him and you need toforgive him.
Obviously that would be anumber one person, but write the
list.
I want you to think ofeverybody, from the time you
were in third grade to presentday.
And then I want you to numberthe list between one and 10, one
being super easy, hence itwould probably be Billy, because
you don't even remember the kid, and 10 being absolutely
(18:35):
unforgivable.
And then I want you to startwith the number ones.
Now, I don't care if you have 20number fives, I really don't
care.
I don't even care if you skip anumber, doesn't matter to me,
but what I do care about withall my heart is you start with
the people you labeled a numberone, then I want you to sit in
(18:57):
your bed alone.
You do not have to call thesepeople and I want you to imagine
the person is standing in frontof you Now.
If it's Billy and you went togrammar school with Billy, I
don't want you to think of theadult.
I want you to see the kid infront of you, the kid that you
knew back in the day.
That's who I want standing infront of you and I want you to
(19:17):
imagine it in your mind's eye.
And if you can't see the kid inyour mind's eye, put a chair in
front of you and talk to thechair.
Not everybody can.
Let's say, can you see yourchildhood bedroom in your head
right now?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yep Very clear.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Can you see the bed?
That's, by the way, not toscare you, but that's.
Clairvoyance Doesn't mean thatyou're going to see a ghost like
Stephen King walk into thekitchen right now.
It just means that's how yousee your intuition.
Some people hear it, see it,feel it or just know it.
It's another book I wrote,because of course I did.
But if you can't see thesethings in your mind's eye, then
(19:56):
talk to a chair.
You could even put the person'sname in the chair, you could
put their picture I don't careWhatever and then let them have
it.
If it's a level one person,you're probably not going to
need to say anything becauseit's so easy.
It won't matter.
But if it's a level five, six,seven, you might have some
things you want to say to thisperson, especially if they've
passed on.
Maybe you need closure.
You're alone in a room.
You can say anything you want.
(20:17):
You could cry, you could scream, it doesn't matter, you're
alone.
When you think you're done, Iwant you to put your hand on
your heart, and it's really justto remind you to say the words
from your heart, because thewords are just for us.
It's the energy behind thewords that actually means the
most Say the mantra that I justsaid a few minutes ago.
And there's worksheets and stuffin the book.
(20:37):
And then I want you to check inwith your body.
You still angry?
Was it a level one person?
Is it zero?
Great Cross their name off thelist.
Go to the next one.
Was it a level three person andyou're still a little mad?
That's fine.
Was it a level three person andyou're still a little mad?
That's fine.
Go down one number, wait 24hours, do it again.
And this next one happened to afriend of mine.
(20:59):
She was a level three person,figured it was easy.
She checked in with her bodyand it shot up to a 10.
What happened?
We're supposed to be going theother way.
Your brain is a wonderful tool.
It protects you like anoverprotective best friend and
in the back of your brain is acloset that's in padlock for
(21:19):
decades and there's a movieplaying in there.
You would have turned it offdecades ago if you knew it was
there.
She didn't know it was there.
It's affecting your life andit's affecting your
relationships and it's playing.
And what she did is sheunlocked that closet because
your brain said, ooh, josh saidthe magic password, he's ready.
I'm going to flood his brainwith memories he doesn't even
(21:42):
know is there.
And that's what happened,because I saw it happen.
The memories just came rightout and she just got really mad
right in front of me.
So you cross off the numberthree, you put a 10 next to it,
put her at the end of the list,keep going.
And you know, for theunforgivable, they're a bear and
(22:03):
sometimes I really think and Ireally really do, genuinely
believe this that there are someunforgivable things out there
that you will never be able toforgive.
I really mean that.
And everybody's level of painis different, especially in
sports, right.
Some people can tolerate pain,some people can't mental and
physical pain.
(22:23):
So your number 10 is going tobe different than everybody
else's.
So if you're forgiving let'ssay, one of your parents and you
have a lot of siblings and yoursiblings are looking at you,
going why you should be overthis.
This is easy to forgive.
I got over it years ago.
With all due respect, I don'tcare about your sibling and I
(22:45):
mean that with all the love inmy heart that I could muster.
I care about you and if youthink it's unforgivable, then
that's where it needs to be onyour list.
Remember, you're alone in aroom, you don't have to contact
anybody.
So to forgive the unforgivable,I want you to do something a
little bit different.
I want you to pick apart thememory.
I want you to pick apart thememory.
If you are not ready to forgivethe person, try forgiving the
(23:12):
energy around the person.
If you're not ready to even dothat, we're going to pick apart
the memory.
Let's take one of my ownmemories the bullying in grammar
school.
So, to use an example, let'ssay you're driving in a car and
you're going to work and youusually turn left at the light.
Today you turned right and youpassed your grammar school.
(23:33):
You didn't even pay attention.
You're thinking about otherthings.
You had a brilliant morning.
It was 70 degrees, the sun wasout, the coffee was great.
You had a really nice morningand by the time you get to work,
you're irritated, you're grumpyand you're cutting people's
heads off and everybody'slooking at you and saying what
happened, what happened today?
Why are you so grumpy?
And you have no idea why.
(23:54):
Well, that movie in that closetstarted to play the minute you
drove by that school.
It was a trigger and your brainsaw it.
So how do you stop the triggers?
You pick apart the memory.
I wasn't ready to forgive thebully.
I wasn't even ready to forgivethe energy around the bully.
To be quite honest with you,when I first did this exercise,
(24:15):
I just didn't want any part ofit.
So I picked apart the memory.
I forgave and I'm serious.
I forgave the school building,the energy around the building.
I forgave the desk, the energyaround the desk.
I forgave the chair that I satin the classroom, the energy
around the classroom.
I forgave the schoolyard.
I forgave the swing set.
I forgave the grass.
(24:36):
I forgave the kids who stoodaround and didn't help me and
the energy around all thesethings.
It took me a minute.
I forgave New York City.
And I did.
I said I completely forgive NewYork City and the energy around
New York City.
I even forgave 1974, becausethat's the year I tried to
commit suicide.
And I actually sat there andsaid I completely forgive 1974
(24:59):
and the energy around 1974,because it was kind of a trigger
.
And once I did that I checkedin with my body and I was ready
to forgive the energy around thebully.
Now, remember, I still haven'tforgiven the bully yet.
I have picked apart the memory.
Will I ever be able if it'sreally unforgivable, will you
(25:19):
ever be able to forgive thatperson?
You may not, and that'scompletely fine.
But you're going to be able toforgive the energy of all these
other things within the memory,and that's completely fine.
But you're going to be able toforgive the energy of all these
other things within the memoryand that's going to free your
soul, that's going to free yourmind.
So you forgive what you can andyou keep going.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, because a lot of times you see things in life,
things passing.
You might see 1974.
You might see a car orsomething like that, or color,
or color.
That will trigger the memory,right, and so it's to forgive
the things that trigger you,exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
The things that trigger the memory.
People don't understand.
Everything is forgivable.
You can forgive politicians,dare I say, not going there.
You could forgive the war inthe Middle East.
What's it going to do for thewar in the Middle East?
Absolutely nothing.
But it's going to do wondersfor you.
If it's on CNN or it'ssomething in your life, you can
(26:19):
forgive it because it's theenergy that is screwing you up.
Let's say, let's use my fatheras an example.
I did, took me a while toforgive my father and I didn't
really want to forgive him.
So I picked apart some memories.
I, I, he used to.
He used to lecture us at thedining room table and it felt
like he.
We were there for hours.
I was a kid, it was probablyjust, it was probably not hours,
(26:41):
but I was a kid, I didn't knowany better.
So I picked apart the memory.
I forgave the dining room tableand the energy around the table
.
I forgave the food in the tableI'm not kidding the energy
around the food.
I forgave me.
I forgave my brother.
I forgave my mother.
I forgave the house, I forgavethe city, and after I did that I
(27:07):
still wasn't ready to forgivethe man.
So I picked another memory andI did it again and eventually,
through trial and error, I wasable to do it, and I always was
very careful to wait 24 hoursand do it again.
You can't forgive too manypeople in a row.
There was a here comes somescience at you.
There was a study done in theJapanese Water Study.
And there's another phrase thatpeople bandy around without
(27:27):
thinking Anger is toxic.
Okay, how?
Don't just tell me these things.
Tell me how.
How is anger toxic?
Well, it's going to affect yourorgans.
How, don't just tell me thesethings.
So here's the how.
And it was done by a guy namedHasumoto.
I can't pronounce his name andif you just Google Japanese
(27:47):
water study, I promise it comesright up.
But what he did, in theinterest of time, I'll say it
fast.
He took several containers ofwater.
The first container of water.
All he did was talk to it,that's it Said beautiful things,
told the glass of water that heloved it.
The other container hate, purehate, nasty things.
And then he put it under amicroscope.
(28:08):
He froze the water and then putit under a microscope.
The water that he spoke love tohad these beautiful, beautiful
crystal formations.
The pictures are right online.
They're cool.
The water he spoke hate tolooks sick and it was kind of
decaying into itself with thesekind of black kind of things.
Why am I telling you this?
(28:28):
The human body is over 95%water.
So when your self-talk is bad,when you're filled with anger
and hate in your heart, what doyou think you're doing to the
water cells within your body andwhat are those water cells
doing to your organs?
You're literally makingyourself sick from the inside
out.
So forgiveness is literallygoing to heal you from the
(28:50):
inside out, wow.
Now, that being said, I wantyou to do only 10 people a night
and I want you to do it beforebed, because when you do this
work, you're going to get reallytired.
My older son did this and hegot exhausted.
You do it sometime, you know,after dinner, so within earshot
(29:11):
of going to bed, and I also he.
I've also heard that a lot ofpeople their shoulders feel
lighter.
It's really weird, but it does.
Some people feel energy, leavetheir body Great.
I do my own exercises.
So when I first came up withthis, I wrote my list.
There must have been 50 peopleon this list.
(29:33):
I'm a little bit of anoverachiever shocker and I
thought this is going to begreat.
I'm going to be like a phoenixrising from the ashes.
I'm going to be like abutterfly coming out of a cocoon
.
I'm going to wake up tomorrowmorning and everything's going
to be gone.
I'm going to be a brand newperson.
Okay, universe has a little bitof a sense of humor and it
didn't exactly play out the wayI wanted it to play out.
(29:54):
I did forgive a lot of peopleon the list and I spent the next
three days in bed with it andwhat everybody thought was
stomach flu, it was not thestomach flu.
Remember those water cells.
Your body heals itself whenit's sleeping.
So if you only do 10, it canmitigate.
Your body will easily toss thatand be able to heal itself.
(30:15):
But if you do more than that,you're going to have what a
Native American Indian told meabout 20 years ago and it's
called energy sickness, andyou're literally, your body is
going to literally get sick fromall of that, having to release
all those toxins.
So you didn't eat a piece ofbad fish, I promise, it's just.
Your body is just clearingitself.
(30:36):
But if you only do 10, and Iwould only suggest to do one
high level person who you'verated an 8, 9, or 10,.
Only do one of those a nightbecause you need to give
yourself time to clear, so dothis.
I practice this every nightbefore bed and I usually do 10
at a time, and I do it everynight before I go to bed.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
So deep, especially energy sickness, Right and
people you know energy, it'sreal, it's so real Right.
So deep, especially energysickness, right and people you
know energy protection it's real, it's so real, right.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Have you ever been talking to somebody.
Maybe you're playing aparticular team and you walk
away and you're exhausted and Imean just exhausted.
Maybe it was just aconversation, but you're really
tired and you just think I'vebeen working too hard burning
the candles.
No, you have energy sickness,Because what they did is they
(31:29):
were literally sucking theenergy out of you as you stood
there.
This is real stuff.
I know it sounds like it'sbrain stretching kind of thing,
but it's real because we've allfelt that 100%.
That's the why the NativeAmerican Indians call it energy
sickness.
Wow, they're not wrong.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yeah Well, so tell me this right when it comes to the
, the momentum of this rightwhen you start to forgive, does
it become easier over time, Likenow, when you forgive people,
even if it is, even if it doesfeel major to some degree, it
(32:12):
becomes easier for you toforgive.
Is that something that becomeseasier?
Is it still?
Um, it can have a majoremotional charge to it, even
over time.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Depends who you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I'm originally from New York City and I can promise
you with 100% certainty and Ican speak for every New Yorker
we don't forget ever.
So telling me you can forgiveand forget doesn't apply to
anybody who is from New York.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Maybe even New Jersey , we don't forget.
So what I can promise you isyou can go on social media, you
can see the person's name, youcan look at them at a party and
there will be no emotionalcharge anymore.
You won't care good, you won'tcare bad, you're not going to
care.
I've actually forgiven a lot ofthe stuff from my childhood and
(33:06):
I can look back now and,instead of regurgitating all
those horrible things thathappened, I can actually see the
pockets of love.
I can see the people that weretrying to help that kid and I
haven't forgotten my past.
But I've got a differentperspective Now.
I've been doing this processfor many years and, yes, it is
(33:28):
very easy for me today and Icould probably do more than 10,
because I've kind of built upthe muscle, if you will, and I
have forgiven a lot of people.
Do I still have number 10soccasionally?
Sure, I do, because humansirritate other humans, but I
don't hold on to it.
When it happens in the momentand somebody makes me angry I'm
only human.
It happens.
(33:48):
I'll go out to my car and I'vebeen known to just sit in there
going.
I forgive them, I forgive them,I forgive them.
I don't mean any of them.
But if I just say it over andover, it reminds me, it kind of
puts me back into thatforgiveness vibe, if you will.
And it kind of puts me backinto that forgiveness vibe, if
you will.
And then obviously I poppedtheir name on my list that night
and I start the process andit's a marathon.
(34:09):
You're not going to get a number10 person down to a one
overnight.
It's not going to happen.
It's going to take a minute.
Be kind to yourself.
That's why I want you to startwith the easy ones, because as
you do the easy ones, you'regoing to, you're going to feel
better and people are going tonotice.
They're going to say did youget something with your hair or
(34:31):
did you lose weight?
I mean, you look so good today?
Well, of course you do, becauseyou've lightened your energy
field and everybody's going tonotice.
But there's certain things thatare going to happen to you once
you start the process.
Like energy attracts, likeenergy.
So you're going to beattracting new people into your
life, better people, people thatthink like you.
That's brilliant.
Bring it on.
We love that.
(34:52):
But there's another sign of thecoin To play devil's advocate,
you're also going to havejackrabbits.
These are the people that havebeen running with you for years
and they kind of like the oldJosh, so they're going to take
off.
I think the term now isghosting and you may or may not
ever know why they just bolted.
I had a bunch of them in mylife.
To this day I still haven'tseen them.
Then you have the saboteurs.
(35:14):
Usually you live with thesepeople.
They might be family.
Family really screws you up,don't they?
They like the old you.
They don't want you to change,so they sabotage it.
So it's up to you.
Jim Rohn is a very famousmotivational speaker and one of
my favorite quotes is you're thesum of the five people you
(35:34):
spend the most time with yourchoice.
And when those jackrabbits comeback because now you're making
some money, you're happy, you'rein a relationship.
Now they want to come back andrun with you.
Well, now you have to make thechoice.
Do you want them in your, inyour tribe, or not?
Your choice, yeah 100 percent,Catherine.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Where can folks find the book forgiveness Right?
This is a this is a big subject, Right, and I don't know how
many books is out there wherethey're actually getting the
path right of how to forgive.
So your book, the Ultimate Pathto Forgiveness, Unlocking your
Power right, Unlocking yourPower.
(36:16):
Where can folks find the bookand really get a step-by-step
process to forgiveness?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
You could go to Amazon.
I have the ebook, the paperbackand the audio book available
because I understand noteverybody wants to read.
So my younger son produced theaudio book and we're still
speaking to each other, so youknow good times.
Not as easy as you think.
Speaking into a microphone man.
I have mad respect for anybodywho does voiceover work.
It is not as easy as you thinkSpeaking into a microphone man.
I have mad respect for anybodywho does voiceover work.
It is not as easy as you wouldthink.
(36:47):
You don't just talk into amicrophone.
You can also go to my website,which is katherinegiovannicom,
and Catherine, thanks to mymother, is spelled a little
weird.
Thanks, mom.
K-a-t-h-a-r-i-n-e-g-o-v-a-n-idot com and you can do private
sessions and all the informationabout me is right there on the
website.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yeah, very great website I'm looking at it right
now and different sectionpodcast services, books.
You also have a blog right.
So a lot that you have going on, catherine, and you added a ton
of value here.
I mean, you just gave us somepractical tips that folks can do
today to start to forgive thosefolks in their lives and unlock
(37:27):
their power.
So we definitely appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Well, thank you, I appreciate it.
Our world is really quitebroken right now, so if I can
help by teaching people toforgive, I'm happy to do it.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah, to forgive and unlock your power.
Right, that's right.
I think that's the biggest keyis, you know, a lot of folks
think that people don't deserveforgiveness.
Right, they don't deserve forme to forgive them, they don't
deserve that.
Not knowing that it's to helpyou unlock your power, get your
(38:02):
power back.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
If you're an athlete and you're a really good athlete
can you imagine how much betteran athlete you will be once you
lose some of that hate?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I'm actually not kidding.
Can you imagine where you mightgo if you start to be your
authentic self?
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yeah, you're able to just flow, just have a different
.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
I had somebody come.
I know we have to go, but I hadsomebody, a gentleman no
disrespect to any men out there,but it was what it was and he
came up to me and I don'tremember where my husband and I
were and he looked at me and hesays I don't agree, okay, I'll
play, bring it.
He said I've made a lot ofmoney.
And I thought in my head, mindyou, because I trained concierge
and customer service for years,I actually didn't say this out
loud, but in my head I'm goingokay, so, and I have a lot of
(38:54):
businesses and I have a lot ofhouses.
Okay, and I did it on my bed ofhate.
I did it on my bed on my storyand I had a horrible and he told
me a little bit of story and Idid it and I had a story and I
built my business on that and Igot to where I am today.
Okay, I'll play.
(39:15):
I'm sure you did.
There are two trains you cantake.
You could take the express oryou could take the local.
The local train stops at everysingle stop.
It's like going into a hoteland you're going up to the 72nd
floor and some punk kid justleft the elevator and you're on
the second and pushed everysingle button between one and 72
(39:35):
.
So you have to stop at everysingle floor between zero and 72
.
It's like the local trainYou're going to get bloodied.
You can get there, but it'sgoing to be painful.
Wouldn't you like to get offthe local and hop on the express
, because I think love andforgiveness will get you twice
as far, twice as fast as thatlocal chain will.
(39:57):
And you're worthy of this.
You're worthy to live a life oflove and you're worthy to live
a life of joy.
It's your birthright.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah, and it's a different energy right.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
It's a completely different energy.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
And that I didn't hear.
I have, you know, amazingfriends.
I have amazing relationships inmy life.
You know fruitful people that Ican give to right, it was all
kind of these.
You know money and objects anddifferent things like that which
you know.
(40:29):
Hey, it's amazing, but theenergy that you hold when you
lead with love is just adifferent type of energy and a
different type of-, and itattracts more people.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
People want to be with you.
They just want to be in yourenergy and sometimes they don't
even want to do anything.
They mindful because it stillmakes me tired.
Depending upon who I'mforgiving, it still makes me
tired, so I wouldn't do thisbefore you go to work, unless
(41:06):
you're able to take a nap duringthe day.
Trust me, I did it once and itwas awful.
I had to go to my car and sleepfor a five or 10 minutes, I'm
sure we all have done that.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
I'm sure we've all done it before.
We've all snuckuck in somewhereright, I love it.
Well, one more question.
I know you mentioned thewebsite, anything else, any
other places that folks can findyou and continue to follow,
work or just?
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Oh, I'm easy to find.
I'm on Facebook, linkedin andInstagram and I post all the
time.
I also have a newsletter calledthe Thriving Times, which posts
good news and some other stuffthat I'm doing.
This is the first book of three, so if you join my mailing list
I don't that's.
The only thing you'll get isthe Thriving Times and you'll
know when my next book comes outprobably this summer.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Wow, the Thriving Times you are writing as we
speak, so we'd love to have youback on the show and, and, and
and talk about this summer, um,when that book drops.
So, um, man, I'm lookingforward to folks here in this
show and, uh, man, we justappreciate it, all the value
that you shared today.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
It appreciates you.
All right, Welcome to another episode of Playing
Engine.
We have a three-timeaward-winning best-selling
author of 12 books, aninternational speaker,
transformation and forgivenesscoach, Catherine Giovanni.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
So I always love kicking the show off with who is
Catherine and how does shespend her time today.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm a forgiveness coach, and the fact that I can
call myself a forgiveness coachprobably implies that the
universe has given me entirelytoo many things to forgive.
So yeah, you know, I am a, I, Iam a, I am a teacher.
At this point, if you want, thereally one word answer is I'm a
(00:48):
teacher.
That's really what it boilsdown to.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
You know it is something you know.
We all need to forgive, we alldo Right, we all have certain
things that we need to give.
I've never heard of somebodywho wants to teach people how to
forgive right, but I think somany of us are either stubborn,
we don't know how we don't need,we don't know that we need to
(01:14):
right, we're not aware of it,and so it's so many things that
I feel like you can show folksabout forgiveness when it comes
to healing and it comes togrowing, and so I guess I want
to understand from you first ofall, how did you even get into
this work of forgiveness?
How did this happen for you?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Well, first of all, you're absolutely spot on right.
Everybody teaches you,everybody teaches you.
You have to forgive your parents, your pastor you have to
forgive your parents, yourpastor, your teachers, Okay, how
, they just say to do it.
Nobody tells us how.
(01:55):
And then what?
If you don't want to, then whatdo you do?
What if it's unforgivable?
So, on a 10 scale, with 10being unforgivable dumpster fire
and one being the easiestperson to forgive, Everybody's
thinking of their number 10person, and that's why nobody
wants to do it, Because you'rethinking of that one person that
hurt you the most.
It's totally fair and in myworld you don't have to forgive
(02:16):
your number 10 people.
Why?
Because there's a lot of people, places and things I did say
places and things, Please don'tclick off that you can forgive
before you even get to thatperson.
So how did I get here?
Well, in the eighth grade myparents were very pickled,
meaning they were ragingalcoholics, and I was terribly
bullied in school because I wasdifferent.
(02:36):
So in the eighth grade I triedto commit suicide and a friend
of mine pulled me out and I justspent the next decade kind of
floating through life, kind oflike you know, like you're
floating in water, just kind ofdrifting.
And you know those teenagersI'm talking about, we all know
them.
And then one day my mother felldown a flight of stairs, broke
her hip and ended up in thehospital, and even my mother
(02:58):
couldn't get a gin and tonic inthe hospital.
So she dried out and we senther to rehab and we spent the
next three years closer thanclose, closer than sisters.
We practically finished eachother's sentences and we forgave
each other.
And then she died of breastcancer, which I eventually got
it in 2012.
And I knew beyond a shadow of adoubt that if I didn't change
(03:21):
what I was doing, I was going todie.
I knew it in my gut, so I quitdrinking.
It was the only New Year'sresolution your girl here ever
kept.
I've been sober 35 years andwhen you go into the rooms,
you're told to make amends,You're told to forgive.
Okay, you're just throwing theword at me.
I was shy.
I'm an extrovert and introvertnow because I taught myself but
(03:44):
I was really shy and remember wedidn't have technology.
So you had two choices.
If I could text those people, Iwould have done it in a
heartbeat, but I couldn't dothat.
You could either call and riskgetting yelled at, or you had to
see them in person and getyelled at.
So who wants that?
So I quietly forgave people allalone in my apartment.
(04:07):
I was in New York City at thetime and I accidentally stumbled
on to my forgiveness system thefirst part of it and from there
it just kind of took hold,because the more people I
forgave, the better I felt andthe more people I forgave I'm a
serial entrepreneur.
I've had a lot of businessesand the more people I forgave of
(04:28):
my personal life, the moremoney I made.
I went to college and back thenthis is like 20, 30 years ago I
thought there should be nocorrelation.
Forgiving people and cleaningmy personal life up should not
affect my business bottom line.
And it did.
It was a direct correlation.
So I continued that path untiltoday.
(04:48):
I stumbled my partner and Ifigured out the secret sauce and
the exact way to forgive astep-by-step system.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, and so that's what I was going to ask is why
is it so important to forgive?
What do you think you unlockedthrough forgiving people?
That unlocked the businesssuccess and the success in other
areas of life.
What was it?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Oh, I love this.
Okay, for anybody who'slistening to the broadcast, I'll
talk you through this.
I'm holding a purple coffee cupto the side of my body.
Now look at my body language,josh.
You know you and I can have aconversation.
You can coach me, and I'm Now.
Look at my body language.
Josh, you know you and I canhave a conversation.
You can coach me, and I'm goingto look at you and say I can
manage my anger.
It's okay, we don't need totalk about my anger.
I got this.
(05:32):
Well, I do, because I'm holdingthis little purple glass of
anger off to the side.
It's easy.
But if I continue to hold on toit and I don't start forgiving
people, humans irritate otherhumans, don't we?
So I'm going to keep puttingmore stuff into the cup.
Now I'm using two whole handsto hold up the cup to the side.
(05:53):
I still can conduct my life, Ican talk to you, I can go out, I
can go to work, but it'sstarting to creep into my
thoughts.
It's starting to take over mylife, and if I still don't
forgive anybody, it's going toget even heavier life.
And if I still don't forgiveanybody, it's going to get even
heavier.
And now I'm holding it in frontof my face.
It's my life has stopped.
It's all I can see.
(06:13):
It's all I can do.
It's creep, it's.
It's full-fledged in my headnow.
It's all I think about.
I'm missing opportunities,money-making opportunities,
because I'm so focused on theanger in my story that I'm
missing the life opportunities,the dream career, the dream
relationship, a good new way tolose weight.
(06:36):
There's a reason to buy the book.
But if you know so, by using mysystem and starting with the
easy people, what I'm doing isnow the glass is off to the side
again.
So now your power is.
Now you're going to be able tosee things again.
You're going to be able to payattention because you're going
to notice things, you're goingto notice opportunities, you're
going to notice people.
(06:57):
So you're literally bringingyour power back and the person
that you came to the planet tobe, that authentic person.
Now you can be it.
Why couldn't you be it before?
Because you couldn't even hearyour intuition.
Men call it their gut feeling.
You couldn't hear it.
Why?
Because anger acts as a shield.
You literally couldn't hearthat little bird in your
(07:19):
shoulder.
So by clearing the anger, nowthe opportunities, and you can
see the opportunities.
You can breathe again.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, you know, I've been thinking about this a lot
over the last month or so.
Is you know our thoughts andwhen we kind of go through the
world, these thoughts that wehave a lot of times come from
past experiences, right, Sure?
They do past experiences right?
(07:46):
Sure, they do.
That's anger, things thatprobably bring us some fear, and
you know, these come from a lotof times, past experiences and
people that we haven't forgivenor we haven't gone back and kind
of cleared that up withourselves so that we can
actually move forward.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I've seen people say you know, josh, you should move
to.
You know you should move toMichigan, you should.
You know whatever, you shouldmove to New York.
You had a bad, bad experiencein New York.
It's a trigger.
So you don't want to move toNew York, but your dream career
is probably there.
All right, you're alreadyshooting yourself in the foot.
So how do you get rid of thetriggers?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, and so that comes from forgiveness.
And so here's another layerRight when it comes to
forgiveness, is you mentionedbefore, like you know, hey,
reaching out to people, callingpeople, texting people, right?
Do you necessarily have toreach out to people if?
If for forgiveness, right?
Um, especially if it'sforgiveness, as we've all heard,
(08:50):
is not necessarily for theother person, right, it's for
yourself and, like we talkedabout, to kind of break these
barriers and, um, reach yourfull authentic self and your
full potential.
Do we have to?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
actually, let me help the stress level of your
audience.
Right now you do not have toreach out and call anybody.
Just because I forgive youdoesn't mean I want a
relationship with you.
I probably don't.
I've probably put barriers andI've put some you know safeties
in place.
Forgiveness doesn't necessarilymean make amends, may not even
(09:33):
be appropriate.
Here's another one.
Just because I forgive you andthis trips up everybody just
because I forgive you doesn'tmean all of a sudden I'm giving
in.
It doesn't mean all of a suddenI'm saying you were right and I
was wrong, and now I'm comingover and it's all good.
I think this stems from ourchildhood, when somebody in the
playground punches you in theeye and the teacher comes over
(09:54):
and says now, children forgiveeach other.
Well, I don't want to.
They just punched me in the eye.
Why should I forgive?
But we're meant to?
And then they tell us to goplay, and I think we all
connected some unseen dots thatshould have never have been
connected, because just becauseI forgive you, I'm doing it for
me, I'm not doing it for them.
It's never for them, in fact,they don't even care.
(10:16):
They're just conducting theirlife.
They don't even know you're madand you're sitting in your
house eating a pint of Ben andJerry's ice cream, which, I
swear to God, should say servingsize one, and not six, I really
say, and we should just say one, right?
So you're the one who is upset.
So here's the formal definition.
For me, forgiveness means Iwant you out of my head.
(10:39):
That's it.
I want you out of my head.
I want to stop thinking aboutyou.
I want to stop crying about you, I want to stop spinning
stories about it.
I want you out of my head,period.
And you don't have to reach outand talk to anybody.
And, that being said, that alsomeans you can forgive dead
(10:59):
people, because where they areor are not doesn't matter a lick
.
If they're alive and well inyour head, it can be forgiven
that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Is is a lot of times, and I've never heard it like
that.
I want you out of my head,right.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
I want you out of my head.
That's the formal definition.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
And I'm releasing it.
I'm releasing it, giving it up,I'm letting it go.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
But it doesn't mean they were right.
It doesn't mean I even want totalk to you.
A lot of people took my fatherwas a number 10 and it took me a
long time to get my fatherforgiven.
This is a marathon, not asprint.
And a podcaster a while backsaid I have a question for you.
Do you have a picture of yourfather in your house?
Really good question.
(11:45):
I, I, I practice what I preachand he died years ago.
Just because I forgave himDoesn't mean I want a
relationship with him if he werealive, and it doesn't mean I
want to look at his pictureevery day.
I have his picture but it's ina cabinet.
It doesn't mean I want therelationship.
Forgiveness means I need to beset free.
(12:07):
Here.
Buddha has probably the bestquote to describe what I'm
talking about.
Anger is like drinking poisonand hoping the other person dies
.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Bottom line.
So this system, which is astep-by-step system, is going to
help you forgive.
And one of the keys and I'll goover the exact system for you
but one of the keys to thesystem is I'm going to start you
with the easy ones.
You save the dumpster fire forlast.
You start with the guy who tookyour parking space at the
grocery store yesterday.
You can forgive that person.
(12:41):
You start with, you know, theclient who yelled at you the
other day.
Well, he was having a bad day.
That was probably not who hereally was.
You can forgive that person.
And you a bad day.
That was probably not who hereally was.
You can forgive that person andyou want their business.
So you should forgive thosepersons.
Hello, you start with the easyones.
Now here is the secret sauce toit.
(13:06):
Einstein proved beyond a showerof doubt that energy is neither
created nor destroyed.
Stay with me.
It just transforms from onething to another.
He also proved, and manyscientists proved, that
everything on our planet,including this little silver
microphone, has an energy fieldaround it.
So why don't people stayforgiven?
Why do you get triggered?
People tell me all the time Idid do the work, I did.
(13:27):
Forgive them.
You did.
You did the work and you got toa place of forgiveness in your
heart.
Then why aren't they stayingforgiven?
Why are you getting triggeredby buildings and by smells and
by seeing, just seeing theirname on Facebook?
Because you didn't forgive theenergy.
The system, one part of thesystem is it's a very simple
(13:48):
mantra I'm a very simple soul.
You don't have to burn incense.
Yes, that's really what youlike to do.
You don't have to hold anycrystals or dance around.
Lest you like to dance and holdcrystals, who am I to judge?
It's a very simple poem.
I want you alone in a room andit simply means I completely
forgive Josh.
I completely forgive the energyaround Josh.
(14:09):
I completely forgive myself.
I forgive the energy aroundmyself, I forgive the energy
around the entire relationship,and so it is amen, go with God,
end it any way you like.
That's part of the system andit's a simple, simple thing.
But forgiveness is like anonion you peel off layers.
There's a lot of layers toforgiveness, lots and lots and
(14:31):
lots of layers.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, and so it's almost like building the
momentum right.
Oh yeah 100%, To eventuallykind of build that forgiveness
muscle, to eventually forgivefolks.
Like you mentioned before.
We hit record forgiving theunforgivable, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
And what if you are the unforgivable?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, yourself, yourself is right there on the
top.
Yeah, I have so many you knowkind of situations that you know
as I build awareness and as Ibuild kind of more understanding
of life.
Right, um, I look at pastexperiences, I'm like man, I
can't believe the way I treatedmyself out of these situations.
Right, you know mistakes thatyou make, forgiving yourself,
(15:29):
right.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That's a big, huge one.
This is the first book of threeand the next book which I just
finished the first draft is mypartner and I are writing it
together and she's got it on herdesk now but it's about how to
forgive yourself and how toforgive the unforgivable and how
to forgive money.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Hello.
So how do we do that?
First of all, I guess the onestarting off with the
unforgivable and I know you said, hey, it's a momentum thing and
obviously it comes with timeand it's a marathon, not a
sprint Getting those big majorblockers out of our head what's
(16:09):
kind of like the practical waysor the tools that folks can
start to use to eventually maybeit's not the first day, maybe
it's, you know, not the first 30days, but what can folks start
to do to eventually get, filterfolks out of their mind or, you
know, get things out of theirmind?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I got your back.
I want everybody to be alone ina room, no little humans, no
big humans with you.
The dog, the cat can be inthere, but nobody else.
And then I want you to dosomething that's going to be
really hard for some of you Iwant you to turn your phone off.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
That's the hardest part.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Off button on that thing.
Okay, and if you're visiblytwitching at the thought of
turning off your phone and I'veseen people twitch in front of
me when I say this, it'sactually kind of entertaining
there there is a button on therewhere you can mute it.
Don't vibrate, because thenit's going to dance in your desk
and you're going to want tolook at it.
Just mute it.
Just don't forget to turn itoff.
Mute when we're done.
(17:07):
Right.
And now I want you to get apiece of paper and a pen.
Again, I know you're twitching.
You want the PC, you wanttechnology.
Years and years ago there was astudy done at Harvard University
with a group of kids about 30of them or something.
Half the kids were told to justsay their goals out loud to the
(17:28):
room.
The other half were told towrite them down on a piece of
paper, and then they followedthese kids through the years and
the kids that wrote those goalsdown on a piece of paper were
twice as successful as thosepeople that didn't.
So there's some kind of magicthat happens when you literally
write it on a piece of paper.
So get a piece of paper and apen and I want you to write a
(17:49):
list of all the people you thinkyou need to forgive of paper
and a pen.
And I want you to write a listof all the people you think you
need to forgive, and I know theunforgivables will be right at
the top.
That's fair.
Mine were too.
But keep going and don't judgethe list.
If you write a list, if you comeup with a name and it says
Billy, don't judge the list anddon't judge the name that you
just wrote down.
You probably knew a Billy atsome point in your life and you
(18:11):
were mad at him and you need toforgive him.
Obviously that would be anumber one person, but write the
list.
I want you to think ofeverybody, from the time you
were in third grade to presentday.
And then I want you to numberthe list between one and 10, one
being super easy, hence itwould probably be Billy, because
you don't even remember the kid, and 10 being absolutely
(18:35):
unforgivable.
And then I want you to startwith the number ones.
Now, I don't care if you have 20number fives, I really don't
care.
I don't even care if you skip anumber, doesn't matter to me,
but what I do care about withall my heart is you start with
the people you labeled a numberone, then I want you to sit in
(18:57):
your bed alone.
You do not have to call thesepeople and I want you to imagine
the person is standing in frontof you Now.
If it's Billy and you went togrammar school with Billy, I
don't want you to think of theadult.
I want you to see the kid infront of you, the kid that you
knew back in the day.
That's who I want standing infront of you and I want you to
(19:17):
imagine it in your mind's eye.
And if you can't see the kid inyour mind's eye, put a chair in
front of you and talk to thechair.
Not everybody can.
Let's say, can you see yourchildhood bedroom in your head
right now?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yep Very clear.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Can you see the bed?
That's, by the way, not toscare you, but that's.
Clairvoyance Doesn't mean thatyou're going to see a ghost like
Stephen King walk into thekitchen right now.
It just means that's how yousee your intuition.
Some people hear it, see it,feel it or just know it.
It's another book I wrote,because of course I did.
But if you can't see thesethings in your mind's eye, then
(19:56):
talk to a chair.
You could even put the person'sname in the chair, you could
put their picture I don't careWhatever and then let them have
it.
If it's a level one person,you're probably not going to
need to say anything becauseit's so easy.
It won't matter.
But if it's a level five, six,seven, you might have some
things you want to say to thisperson, especially if they've
passed on.
Maybe you need closure.
You're alone in a room.
You can say anything you want.
(20:17):
You could cry, you could scream, it doesn't matter, you're
alone.
When you think you're done, Iwant you to put your hand on
your heart, and it's really justto remind you to say the words
from your heart, because thewords are just for us.
It's the energy behind thewords that actually means the
most Say the mantra that I justsaid a few minutes ago.
And there's worksheets and stuffin the book.
(20:37):
And then I want you to check inwith your body.
You still angry?
Was it a level one person?
Is it zero?
Great Cross their name off thelist.
Go to the next one.
Was it a level three person andyou're still a little mad?
That's fine.
Was it a level three person andyou're still a little mad?
That's fine.
Go down one number, wait 24hours, do it again.
And this next one happened to afriend of mine.
(20:59):
She was a level three person,figured it was easy.
She checked in with her bodyand it shot up to a 10.
What happened?
We're supposed to be going theother way.
Your brain is a wonderful tool.
It protects you like anoverprotective best friend and
in the back of your brain is acloset that's in padlock for
(21:19):
decades and there's a movieplaying in there.
You would have turned it offdecades ago if you knew it was
there.
She didn't know it was there.
It's affecting your life andit's affecting your
relationships and it's playing.
And what she did is sheunlocked that closet because
your brain said, ooh, josh saidthe magic password, he's ready.
I'm going to flood his brainwith memories he doesn't even
(21:42):
know is there.
And that's what happened,because I saw it happen.
The memories just came rightout and she just got really mad
right in front of me.
So you cross off the numberthree, you put a 10 next to it,
put her at the end of the list,keep going.
And you know, for theunforgivable, they're a bear and
(22:03):
sometimes I really think and Ireally really do, genuinely
believe this that there are someunforgivable things out there
that you will never be able toforgive.
I really mean that.
And everybody's level of painis different, especially in
sports, right.
Some people can tolerate pain,some people can't mental and
physical pain.
(22:23):
So your number 10 is going tobe different than everybody
else's.
So if you're forgiving let'ssay, one of your parents and you
have a lot of siblings and yoursiblings are looking at you,
going why you should be overthis.
This is easy to forgive.
I got over it years ago.
With all due respect, I don'tcare about your sibling and I
(22:45):
mean that with all the love inmy heart that I could muster.
I care about you and if youthink it's unforgivable, then
that's where it needs to be onyour list.
Remember, you're alone in aroom, you don't have to contact
anybody.
So to forgive the unforgivable,I want you to do something a
little bit different.
I want you to pick apart thememory.
I want you to pick apart thememory.
If you are not ready to forgivethe person, try forgiving the
(23:12):
energy around the person.
If you're not ready to even dothat, we're going to pick apart
the memory.
Let's take one of my ownmemories the bullying in grammar
school.
So, to use an example, let'ssay you're driving in a car and
you're going to work and youusually turn left at the light.
Today you turned right and youpassed your grammar school.
(23:33):
You didn't even pay attention.
You're thinking about otherthings.
You had a brilliant morning.
It was 70 degrees, the sun wasout, the coffee was great.
You had a really nice morningand by the time you get to work,
you're irritated, you're grumpyand you're cutting people's
heads off and everybody'slooking at you and saying what
happened, what happened today?
Why are you so grumpy?
And you have no idea why.
(23:54):
Well, that movie in that closetstarted to play the minute you
drove by that school.
It was a trigger and your brainsaw it.
So how do you stop the triggers?
You pick apart the memory.
I wasn't ready to forgive thebully.
I wasn't even ready to forgivethe energy around the bully.
To be quite honest with you,when I first did this exercise,
(24:15):
I just didn't want any part ofit.
So I picked apart the memory.
I forgave and I'm serious.
I forgave the school building,the energy around the building.
I forgave the desk, the energyaround the desk.
I forgave the chair that I satin the classroom, the energy
around the classroom.
I forgave the schoolyard.
I forgave the swing set.
I forgave the grass.
(24:36):
I forgave the kids who stoodaround and didn't help me and
the energy around all thesethings.
It took me a minute.
I forgave New York City.
And I did.
I said I completely forgive NewYork City and the energy around
New York City.
I even forgave 1974, becausethat's the year I tried to
commit suicide.
And I actually sat there andsaid I completely forgive 1974
(24:59):
and the energy around 1974,because it was kind of a trigger
.
And once I did that I checkedin with my body and I was ready
to forgive the energy around thebully.
Now, remember, I still haven'tforgiven the bully yet.
I have picked apart the memory.
Will I ever be able if it'sreally unforgivable, will you
(25:19):
ever be able to forgive thatperson?
You may not, and that'scompletely fine.
But you're going to be able toforgive the energy of all these
other things within the memory,and that's completely fine.
But you're going to be able toforgive the energy of all these
other things within the memoryand that's going to free your
soul, that's going to free yourmind.
So you forgive what you can andyou keep going.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, because a lot of times you see things in life,
things passing.
You might see 1974.
You might see a car orsomething like that, or color,
or color.
That will trigger the memory,right, and so it's to forgive
the things that trigger you,exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
The things that trigger the memory.
People don't understand.
Everything is forgivable.
You can forgive politicians,dare I say, not going there.
You could forgive the war inthe Middle East.
What's it going to do for thewar in the Middle East?
Absolutely nothing.
But it's going to do wondersfor you.
If it's on CNN or it'ssomething in your life, you can
(26:19):
forgive it because it's theenergy that is screwing you up.
Let's say, let's use my fatheras an example.
I did, took me a while toforgive my father and I didn't
really want to forgive him.
So I picked apart some memories.
I, I, he used to.
He used to lecture us at thedining room table and it felt
like he.
We were there for hours.
I was a kid, it was probablyjust, it was probably not hours,
(26:41):
but I was a kid, I didn't knowany better.
So I picked apart the memory.
I forgave the dining room tableand the energy around the table
.
I forgave the food in the tableI'm not kidding the energy
around the food.
I forgave me.
I forgave my brother.
I forgave my mother.
I forgave the house, I forgavethe city, and after I did that I
(27:07):
still wasn't ready to forgivethe man.
So I picked another memory andI did it again and eventually,
through trial and error, I wasable to do it, and I always was
very careful to wait 24 hoursand do it again.
You can't forgive too manypeople in a row.
There was a here comes somescience at you.
There was a study done in theJapanese Water Study.
And there's another phrase thatpeople bandy around without
(27:27):
thinking Anger is toxic.
Okay, how?
Don't just tell me these things.
Tell me how.
How is anger toxic?
Well, it's going to affect yourorgans.
How, don't just tell me thesethings.
So here's the how.
And it was done by a guy namedHasumoto.
I can't pronounce his name andif you just Google Japanese
(27:47):
water study, I promise it comesright up.
But what he did, in theinterest of time, I'll say it
fast.
He took several containers ofwater.
The first container of water.
All he did was talk to it,that's it Said beautiful things,
told the glass of water that heloved it.
The other container hate, purehate, nasty things.
And then he put it under amicroscope.
(28:08):
He froze the water and then putit under a microscope.
The water that he spoke love tohad these beautiful, beautiful
crystal formations.
The pictures are right online.
They're cool.
The water he spoke hate tolooks sick and it was kind of
decaying into itself with thesekind of black kind of things.
Why am I telling you this?
(28:28):
The human body is over 95%water.
So when your self-talk is bad,when you're filled with anger
and hate in your heart, what doyou think you're doing to the
water cells within your body andwhat are those water cells
doing to your organs?
You're literally makingyourself sick from the inside
out.
So forgiveness is literallygoing to heal you from the
(28:50):
inside out, wow.
Now, that being said, I wantyou to do only 10 people a night
and I want you to do it beforebed, because when you do this
work, you're going to get reallytired.
My older son did this and hegot exhausted.
You do it sometime, you know,after dinner, so within earshot
(29:11):
of going to bed, and I also he.
I've also heard that a lot ofpeople their shoulders feel
lighter.
It's really weird, but it does.
Some people feel energy, leavetheir body Great.
I do my own exercises.
So when I first came up withthis, I wrote my list.
There must have been 50 peopleon this list.
(29:33):
I'm a little bit of anoverachiever shocker and I
thought this is going to begreat.
I'm going to be like a phoenixrising from the ashes.
I'm going to be like abutterfly coming out of a cocoon
.
I'm going to wake up tomorrowmorning and everything's going
to be gone.
I'm going to be a brand newperson.
Okay, universe has a little bitof a sense of humor and it
didn't exactly play out the wayI wanted it to play out.
(29:54):
I did forgive a lot of peopleon the list and I spent the next
three days in bed with it andwhat everybody thought was
stomach flu, it was not thestomach flu.
Remember those water cells.
Your body heals itself whenit's sleeping.
So if you only do 10, it canmitigate.
Your body will easily toss thatand be able to heal itself.
(30:15):
But if you do more than that,you're going to have what a
Native American Indian told meabout 20 years ago and it's
called energy sickness, andyou're literally, your body is
going to literally get sick fromall of that, having to release
all those toxins.
So you didn't eat a piece ofbad fish, I promise, it's just.
Your body is just clearingitself.
(30:36):
But if you only do 10, and Iwould only suggest to do one
high level person who you'verated an 8, 9, or 10,.
Only do one of those a nightbecause you need to give
yourself time to clear, so dothis.
I practice this every nightbefore bed and I usually do 10
at a time, and I do it everynight before I go to bed.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
So deep, especially energy sickness, Right and
people you know energy, it'sreal, it's so real Right.
So deep, especially energysickness, right and people you
know energy protection it's real, it's so real, right.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Have you ever been talking to somebody.
Maybe you're playing aparticular team and you walk
away and you're exhausted and Imean just exhausted.
Maybe it was just aconversation, but you're really
tired and you just think I'vebeen working too hard burning
the candles.
No, you have energy sickness,Because what they did is they
(31:29):
were literally sucking theenergy out of you as you stood
there.
This is real stuff.
I know it sounds like it'sbrain stretching kind of thing,
but it's real because we've allfelt that 100%.
That's the why the NativeAmerican Indians call it energy
sickness.
Wow, they're not wrong.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yeah Well, so tell me this right when it comes to the
, the momentum of this rightwhen you start to forgive, does
it become easier over time, Likenow, when you forgive people,
even if it is, even if it doesfeel major to some degree, it
(32:12):
becomes easier for you toforgive.
Is that something that becomeseasier?
Is it still?
Um, it can have a majoremotional charge to it, even
over time.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Depends who you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I'm originally from New York City and I can promise
you with 100% certainty and Ican speak for every New Yorker
we don't forget ever.
So telling me you can forgiveand forget doesn't apply to
anybody who is from New York.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Maybe even New Jersey , we don't forget.
So what I can promise you isyou can go on social media, you
can see the person's name, youcan look at them at a party and
there will be no emotionalcharge anymore.
You won't care good, you won'tcare bad, you're not going to
care.
I've actually forgiven a lot ofthe stuff from my childhood and
(33:06):
I can look back now and,instead of regurgitating all
those horrible things thathappened, I can actually see the
pockets of love.
I can see the people that weretrying to help that kid and I
haven't forgotten my past.
But I've got a differentperspective Now.
I've been doing this processfor many years and, yes, it is
(33:28):
very easy for me today and Icould probably do more than 10,
because I've kind of built upthe muscle, if you will, and I
have forgiven a lot of people.
Do I still have number 10soccasionally?
Sure, I do, because humansirritate other humans, but I
don't hold on to it.
When it happens in the momentand somebody makes me angry I'm
only human.
It happens.
(33:48):
I'll go out to my car and I'vebeen known to just sit in there
going.
I forgive them, I forgive them,I forgive them.
I don't mean any of them.
But if I just say it over andover, it reminds me, it kind of
puts me back into thatforgiveness vibe, if you will.
And it kind of puts me backinto that forgiveness vibe, if
you will.
And then obviously I poppedtheir name on my list that night
and I start the process andit's a marathon.
(34:09):
You're not going to get a number10 person down to a one
overnight.
It's not going to happen.
It's going to take a minute.
Be kind to yourself.
That's why I want you to startwith the easy ones, because as
you do the easy ones, you'regoing to, you're going to feel
better and people are going tonotice.
They're going to say did youget something with your hair or
(34:31):
did you lose weight?
I mean, you look so good today?
Well, of course you do, becauseyou've lightened your energy
field and everybody's going tonotice.
But there's certain things thatare going to happen to you once
you start the process.
Like energy attracts, likeenergy.
So you're going to beattracting new people into your
life, better people, people thatthink like you.
That's brilliant.
Bring it on.
We love that.
(34:52):
But there's another sign of thecoin To play devil's advocate,
you're also going to havejackrabbits.
These are the people that havebeen running with you for years
and they kind of like the oldJosh, so they're going to take
off.
I think the term now isghosting and you may or may not
ever know why they just bolted.
I had a bunch of them in mylife.
To this day I still haven'tseen them.
Then you have the saboteurs.
(35:14):
Usually you live with thesepeople.
They might be family.
Family really screws you up,don't they?
They like the old you.
They don't want you to change,so they sabotage it.
So it's up to you.
Jim Rohn is a very famousmotivational speaker and one of
my favorite quotes is you're thesum of the five people you
(35:34):
spend the most time with yourchoice.
And when those jackrabbits comeback because now you're making
some money, you're happy, you'rein a relationship.
Now they want to come back andrun with you.
Well, now you have to make thechoice.
Do you want them in your, inyour tribe, or not?
Your choice, yeah 100 percent,Catherine.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Where can folks find the book forgiveness Right?
This is a this is a big subject, Right, and I don't know how
many books is out there wherethey're actually getting the
path right of how to forgive.
So your book, the Ultimate Pathto Forgiveness, Unlocking your
Power right, Unlocking yourPower.
(36:16):
Where can folks find the bookand really get a step-by-step
process to forgiveness?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
You could go to Amazon.
I have the ebook, the paperbackand the audio book available
because I understand noteverybody wants to read.
So my younger son produced theaudio book and we're still
speaking to each other, so youknow good times.
Not as easy as you think.
Speaking into a microphone man.
I have mad respect for anybodywho does voiceover work.
It is not as easy as you thinkSpeaking into a microphone man.
I have mad respect for anybodywho does voiceover work.
It is not as easy as you wouldthink.
(36:47):
You don't just talk into amicrophone.
You can also go to my website,which is katherinegiovannicom,
and Catherine, thanks to mymother, is spelled a little
weird.
Thanks, mom.
K-a-t-h-a-r-i-n-e-g-o-v-a-n-idot com and you can do private
sessions and all the informationabout me is right there on the
website.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yeah, very great website I'm looking at it right
now and different sectionpodcast services, books.
You also have a blog right.
So a lot that you have going on, catherine, and you added a ton
of value here.
I mean, you just gave us somepractical tips that folks can do
today to start to forgive thosefolks in their lives and unlock
(37:27):
their power.
So we definitely appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Well, thank you, I appreciate it.
Our world is really quitebroken right now, so if I can
help by teaching people toforgive, I'm happy to do it.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah, to forgive and unlock your power.
Right, that's right.
I think that's the biggest keyis, you know, a lot of folks
think that people don't deserveforgiveness.
Right, they don't deserve forme to forgive them, they don't
deserve that.
Not knowing that it's to helpyou unlock your power, get your
(38:02):
power back.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
If you're an athlete and you're a really good athlete
can you imagine how much betteran athlete you will be once you
lose some of that hate?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I'm actually not kidding.
Can you imagine where you mightgo if you start to be your
authentic self?
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yeah, you're able to just flow, just have a different
.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
I had somebody come.
I know we have to go, but I hadsomebody, a gentleman no
disrespect to any men out there,but it was what it was and he
came up to me and I don'tremember where my husband and I
were and he looked at me and hesays I don't agree, okay, I'll
play, bring it.
He said I've made a lot ofmoney.
And I thought in my head, mindyou, because I trained concierge
and customer service for years,I actually didn't say this out
loud, but in my head I'm goingokay, so, and I have a lot of
(38:54):
businesses and I have a lot ofhouses.
Okay, and I did it on my bed ofhate.
I did it on my bed on my storyand I had a horrible and he told
me a little bit of story and Idid it and I had a story and I
built my business on that and Igot to where I am today.
Okay, I'll play.
(39:15):
I'm sure you did.
There are two trains you cantake.
You could take the express oryou could take the local.
The local train stops at everysingle stop.
It's like going into a hoteland you're going up to the 72nd
floor and some punk kid justleft the elevator and you're on
the second and pushed everysingle button between one and 72
(39:35):
.
So you have to stop at everysingle floor between zero and 72
.
It's like the local trainYou're going to get bloodied.
You can get there, but it'sgoing to be painful.
Wouldn't you like to get offthe local and hop on the express
, because I think love andforgiveness will get you twice
as far, twice as fast as thatlocal chain will.
(39:57):
And you're worthy of this.
You're worthy to live a life oflove and you're worthy to live
a life of joy.
It's your birthright.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah, and it's a different energy right.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
It's a completely different energy.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
And that I didn't hear.
I have, you know, amazingfriends.
I have amazing relationships inmy life.
You know fruitful people that Ican give to right, it was all
kind of these.
You know money and objects anddifferent things like that which
you know.
(40:29):
Hey, it's amazing, but theenergy that you hold when you
lead with love is just adifferent type of energy and a
different type of-, and itattracts more people.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
People want to be with you.
They just want to be in yourenergy and sometimes they don't
even want to do anything.
They mindful because it stillmakes me tired.
Depending upon who I'mforgiving, it still makes me
tired, so I wouldn't do thisbefore you go to work, unless
(41:06):
you're able to take a nap duringthe day.
Trust me, I did it once and itwas awful.
I had to go to my car and sleepfor a five or 10 minutes, I'm
sure we all have done that.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
I'm sure we've all done it before.
We've all snuckuck in somewhereright, I love it.
Well, one more question.
I know you mentioned thewebsite, anything else, any
other places that folks can findyou and continue to follow,
work or just?
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Oh, I'm easy to find.
I'm on Facebook, linkedin andInstagram and I post all the
time.
I also have a newsletter calledthe Thriving Times, which posts
good news and some other stuffthat I'm doing.
This is the first book of three, so if you join my mailing list
I don't that's.
The only thing you'll get isthe Thriving Times and you'll
know when my next book comes outprobably this summer.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Wow, the Thriving Times you are writing as we
speak, so we'd love to have youback on the show and, and, and
and talk about this summer, um,when that book drops.
So, um, man, I'm lookingforward to folks here in this
show and, uh, man, we justappreciate it, all the value
that you shared today.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
It appreciates you.
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