March 10, 2025 • 44 mins
Marianne Renner shares powerful insights on how the stories we tell ourselves shape our reality and limit our potential. She explains how our self-talk becomes habitual thought patterns that form our belief systems, often unconsciously sabotaging our outcomes.
• Our brains are naturally wired for negative thinking but can be reprogrammed through neuroplasticity
• Most common self-limiting stories include "I'm not good enough" and victim mentality ("it's not my fault")
• Self-imposed barriers often form by age seven and operate below our conscious awareness
• Daily practices to change your self-talk: celebrate wins (past), practice gratitude (present), use affirmations (future)
• Overcoming fear of failure by playing the story all the way through and seeing it's not catastrophic
• Focusing on what you can control, especially during uncertainty, creates unexpected opportunities
• Real success stories of people transforming their careers through changed self-talk
• Approaching goals as experiments reduces pressure and fear of failure
• Feelings are just alarm signals indicating action, not commands to be obeyed
• Simple tools work best because you're more likely to follow through consistently
Pre-order Marianne's book "The Self-Talk: 10 Stories You Tell Yourself That Hold You Back" wherever books are sold and download a free workbook at mariannerenner.com/self-talk.
Follow Playing Injured on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/playinginjured/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of Playing Injured.
We have Marianne Renner, who isa leadership coach, leadership
trainer, a keynote speaker.
She also has a TEDx talk aswell.
That was an amazing story, butshe helps thousands of leaders
remove self-imposed barriers andunleash their greatest
(00:21):
potential.
Marianne, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Gosh, thank you so much.
I really am excited to be here.
I really am.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yes, me and Marianne.
We got a chance to catch upbefore we hit record and we have
so much in common.
She's in Aurora, not too farfrom where I grew up.
We studied the same thing incollege.
We have a lot in common, right?
So, marianne would love to hearfrom you who is Marianne and
(00:50):
how does she spend her timetoday?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
thank you, josh.
Well, as you mentioned, I'm inAurora, far western Chicago
suburbs, born and bred here,actually third generation from
the city, and I am actually theyoungest of nine kids, so I have
eight older siblings I'm thebaby and I have a million nieces
(01:12):
and nephews, as you can imaginewhom I love like crazy and a
godson that I absolutely adore,and I'm just living my life's
purpose, really working withleaders and helping them remove
those self-imposed barrierswhich show up in the form of
sabotaging self-talk, and sothat's how I wrote the book,
(01:34):
came to write the book, theself-talk 10 stories you tell
yourself that hold you back.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, I love that.
So I want to go into thisbecause my mother is actually
the youngest of 11 kids, rightMe and her.
Me and her have just amazingconversations, very deep
conversations the older I get,and one of the beliefs that she
had grown up as the youngest of11 kids was just being invisible
(02:03):
, right, not being seen.
Did you have that experiencegrowing up youngest?
The youngest of 11 kids wasjust being invisible, right, not
being seen.
Did you have?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
that experience growing up youngest of nine,
what was kind of that experience?
Like you know, this is what'svery unique about me.
So I'm the youngest by a lot.
So my mom had eight kids.
She thought she was done.
At 38 years old she had hereighth baby and then, when my
brother was eight years old,when my mom was 46, I came along
.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Surprise.
And so in some ways, yes, butin some ways, I grew up with in
kind of a small household, soday to day there weren't a lot
of people around, but holidayswere humongous.
A lot of my siblings weremarried with kids.
Some of them were married withkids by the time I came along.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Different yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Very different, very different.
I love it.
So the self-imposed barriersand self-talk I want to
understand this because it's acombination of the two.
Right, where I know our brainis pretty much wired for
negative.
Right, obviously, the period,historic times we needed to
(03:16):
protect ourselves, so we had tolean negative.
But also, too, we have thesenegative experiences that happen
that can kind of wire ourbeliefs, or that self-talk.
Talk to me about that.
Like, how does theseself-imposed barriers get
created?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, so you're absolutely right, josh.
You know it's that old.
Is it nature or nurtureargument or discussion or debate
?
And it's actually it's a bothand and.
So a lot of the what, what wehave today and why these our
self-talk is so problematic.
So much of it we're not awareof, because all of your listen,
(03:57):
your belief system is just thoseare thoughts.
You start out with a thought,you repeat that thought over and
over, it becomes a habit andthen the habitual thought
pattern becomes a belief andit's unconscious, largely
because those thoughts start ata very young age.
So we hear something, we seesomething, there's an external
(04:19):
situation, but then it sort ofcomes into our head and it goes
through a process or kind oflike a little factory in there
and, depending on how we'rewired or who we are, we're
processing all different ways.
We sort of repeat thesehabitual thoughts over and over
(04:48):
and then, before you know it,it's our belief system and the
self-talk that we're tellingourselves and not even realizing
we're sabotaging our ownoutcomes.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, 100 percent.
And it does happen very young,yeah, point where we just don't
even know where they, wherethese thoughts even come from.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, for sure you know the scientists will talk
about something calledneuroplasticity, and I won't get
too geeky on that.
But our brains are very pliableright after birth, again when
we're around age seven, which iswhy they say a majority of our
beliefs form by age seven andthen again in adolescence.
But the good news is thisneuroplasticity means it's the
way that our brains are, youknow, shaping and forming, and
(05:38):
we can change that anytime inour lives, like any, just like
you know our muscles You're anathlete.
We were talking about workingout and we can change the shape
of our muscles by exercisingthem, and the same is true with
our thoughts.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah.
So I'm glad you brought this up, because neuroplasticity is
something that I've been kind oflooking at in the new year.
I've been a little bit moredisciplined with
self-affirmations and doing itin the morning, right.
They talk about how our brainsare, very the neuroplasticity of
(06:15):
it.
In the morning, we can reallystart to shape our thoughts.
Is it any time when folksshould be doing this?
Is it when they have a badthought, shutting it down and
replacing it with a positivethought?
What is your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I don't think there's a magic time, whatever works
for you it's the same with.
So you know, you and I we havethe sports background, but I was
a personal trainer.
I didn't play team sports, butpeople would say what's the best
exercise for me to do?
And I would say the one you'regoing to do.
I'm not going to tell you, youknow, to go running if you hate
running and you're going to quitin a week.
(06:52):
And I would say the same thingif you're trying to change your
self-talk and you're trying tocreate new habit patterns.
The one key is if you dosomething at the same time every
day, that helps to form a habit, like I brush my teeth the same
time every day.
You know there are certainthings I do every day and I do
them in the same order and I dothem at the same time, and
(07:15):
that's the easiest way I havefound to develop a habit.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, we're looking to develop a habit and you know
it's crazy is we have a habit oftalking to ourselves negatively
and when you hear somebodyspeaking to themselves
positively or they say youshould talk, you should do more
self-talk, we are like that canbe weird, or it seems weird or
(07:43):
feels weird when we already aretalking to ourselves regardless.
So you might as well talk toyourself positively, right?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
All day long we're talking to ourselves.
I always say you know we're, Icall it like we're telling
ourselves stories, that's ourself-talk and you know, when I
started my career, I started outas a newspaper reporter and
then transitioned to marketing.
But I was living in Duluth,minnesota, next stop North Pole,
(08:13):
and I was working as anewspaper reporter and I was.
It was really cool job becauseI was interviewing really
interesting people and writingstories about interesting
people's lives.
But what didn't dawn on me atthe time was that the biggest
story that I was writing was thestory of my own life.
Yeah, not with a pen and paperor laptop, but with every
(08:36):
thought that went through mymind about what I was capable of
, of achieving and what wasgoing on in the world around.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Because we're telling ourselves stories about, you
know, something that's happeningand those stories can be very
telling and influential on howwe show up in the world yeah,
and you know I'm thinking aboutthese stories that I've told
myself and how I perceived asituation as something where I
(09:11):
wasn't good enough or I wasn'tworthy enough, when the
situation had nothing to do withthat.
It was so many other factors,but this belief is something
that I formed, right, yep, um,what are stories?
Go ahead, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Okay, well, I was just going to.
I think I'm going to answeryour question because, by the
way, some version of I'm notgood enough is in the top.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
That is one of the stories.
So the book talks about 10stories.
You tell yourself that is theone.
In the individual coachingsessions that I do, that is the
one I hear the most.
There's two, there's two.
They're kind of tied level,they are they're crushing it.
And then they'll come to me andin the safe confidentiality of
(10:11):
the one-on-one coachingenvironment, they'll sort of
confess their deep, dark secret,which is some version of I'm
not good enough and I'm blownaway because I'm looking at all
these amazing things they'redoing, the amazing humans that
they are, and I'm thinking likeI don't know who you're looking
at when you look in the mirror,because I'm talking to somebody
completely different.
(10:32):
But that's one.
I'm, I'm not good enough and,um, some version of it's not my
fault is the other one what doyou mean by that?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
It's not?
It's not your fault, or it's?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
not, someone did something to me or something
happened to me, and I guess Iwould use the phrase kind of
victim mindset, and it putspeople in a very disempowered
state.
So there may be externalcircumstances that are outside
(11:08):
your control, that aren't yourfault, but when you repeat that
story over and over in yourbrain now you're stuck, because
now you've sort of convincedyourself there's nothing I can
do.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, yeah, that's one thing about playing a victim
or seeing yourself as a victimis that you don't allow yourself
to see.
Give yourself ownership tochange it, right.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Exactly, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
It's interesting and you know I learned these, so I,
I.
This is how I learned a lot ofthese lessons, Cause, by the way
, it's school of hard knocks forme.
But I started.
So you know, we talked aboutthe stories we tell ourselves
from a very young age and mystorytelling started.
I remember when I was nineyears old and I was on my way to
(11:55):
school in the fourth grade, andI got called home from school
and I walk in the door andthere's my dad.
He's sitting in the room, he'sacross from me, he's got his
arms stretched out.
So I walked up to him and hewraps his arms around me and
we're eye to eye.
He's sitting, I'm standing, andhe said three words forever
changed my life.
(12:15):
He said mommy's in heaven.
And in that moment I justremember how I felt.
I was so scared and I startedwhy?
Why did this happen?
Why did this happen to me?
Why is this happening now?
(12:37):
All normal questions, but whenthey start, especially at a
young age, and they repeat andthey repeat and I felt so scared
and alone.
And why me?
Why me?
(12:59):
And ultimately the lonelinessand all of those sad feelings,
they continue to grow and growover the years and I used to lie
in my bed at night and I wouldjust cry out loud God, let me
die.
And ultimately the doctors gavemy story a name for me
depression and I had threedecades of depression and I
tried everything to make thosebad feelings go away.
(13:21):
And I mean I tried it all.
I tried workaholism did notwork.
I tried alcoholism workaholismdid not work.
I tried alcoholism definitelydid not work.
And so everything I did becauseof my stories, I was just
trying everything I could tomake the bad feelings go away.
Um, but over time, a lot ofresearch, a lot of book reading,
(13:45):
a lot of, you know, studyingall the things we're talking
about, I realized that changingmy self-talk was the key that
finally turned everything around.
Yeah, yeah, and I.
And it changed my career, itchanged my relationships, it
changed everything.
And so I thought, golly, ifthat worked that way for me, is
(14:05):
it a coincidence or could thesetools help someone else?
So I started sharing them withmy leadership coaching clients,
and I started seeing their liveschange.
I mean transformation, and it'slike one after the other, after
the other, and then I realizedthis idea of changing your
self-talk.
It is a game changer for anyonewho's trying to overcome
(14:30):
anything in their life orachieve anything that they'd
like to achieve.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
So you know, you talked aboutworkaholism and I'm thinking
about how many people out therewho are working extremely hard
to make themselves feel betterby accomplishment.
Right, if I accomplish this,then I'll feel better, then I'll
(14:57):
have friends, whatever thebelief is or whatever the story
is right.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah, exactly, because every decision is just
we're all trying to get afeeling.
I mean, we're earth, human,earthlings.
We all want to feel a certainthing.
We want to feel happiness, wewant to feel joy, we want to
feel ecstasy, we want to feelwhatever all of our decisions,
or we want to avoid a negativefeeling.
So you know, listen, I want toeat that piece of cake.
It's because it's going to makeme, I want to feel, you know,
(15:23):
whatever.
So so, yeah, that's, that'sexactly right.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, and I'm thinking now.
I'm thinking you mentioned andI would love to get into some
like the practical ways of howyou start to implement this but
you mentioned how people theysee themselves differently than
what they actually are.
Right, you talked about how yousat down with very successful
(15:50):
people who are.
They seem like they haveeverything all put together from
your point of view.
From your perspective, you lookat them like, hey, you are
amazing, you have so much goingfor you, but the internal
dialogue that they have aboutthemselves is totally different.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Right, and so I would love to hear yeah, what did
that look like?
How did we start to flip it sothat it's more in alignment with
who they actually are?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
So that's, and so I'm going to try to select some
tools, because the bookliterally has dozens and dozens.
So every the way it's organized, every chapter is a story.
You tell yourself how I learnedthat lesson, and then it's got
tools to change it and then someclient examples.
So one of the examples that Iuse is we're telling ourselves
(16:42):
stories about the past, we'retelling ourselves stories about
the present.
And we're telling ourselvesstories about the present and
we're telling ourselves storiesabout the future.
And so the stories about thepast are usually I, messed up
(17:03):
kids or like there's somethingthat I did wrong in the past.
And so I always say we want tochange our past stories and you
can do that by celebrating yourwins.
So I, a lot of this isjournaling, so getting a
notebook and every day writedown three wins from the day or
(17:26):
from the previous day, becauseusually all we're focused on is
what I did wrong.
So that's one, because thenyou're going to develop new
habit patterns.
If you do again, doesn't care,I don't care what if it's in the
morning or in the night, but doit same time every day.
You'll develop the habit.
You know, I got the kids outthe door on time.
I whatever it doesn't have tobe big or small Three things,
(17:50):
that three wins that youaccomplished, from the day every
day.
And then we're telling ourselvesstories about the present,
meaning it's usually all thethings I don't like.
Oh, I don't like what thisperson on my team did at work.
I don't like you know thispolitical ad that's coming
(18:12):
across my feed right now.
So I always say write downthree things that you're
grateful for.
And we talk about gratitudejournaling all the time, but
three things.
So, instead of going to workand saying I hate my boss, I
don't like the team, I don'tlike the work that I do, hey, I
get free coffee in the breakroom every day.
(18:33):
Whatever, three things everyday.
So that's the present.
And then, in the future is theaffirmation that you mentioned,
josh it's.
You know, maybe there'ssomething that you are telling
yourself now that's negative,but you'd like it to be
different in the future.
So write it down the way youwant to believe it, even if you
(18:54):
don't in the moment.
Yeah, so the past iscelebration, the present is
appreciation and the future isaffirmation.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I love that.
It's about focusing on the goodwhen it comes to these three
things as opposed to the bad.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yes, and I will tell you when you do this every day,
and you can do this in less than10 minutes, less than 10
minutes to do all three of thesein a day you will start to
change the way you're thinking,because it's becoming a new,
you're developing a new habityou're thinking because it's
becoming a new, you'redeveloping a new habit.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, yeah, and it's man, I can't, I can't tell you
how great gratitude is Momentsof anxiety, moments of you know
kind of feeling like you have anattitude we're never perfect,
right, and we talked aboutplaying injured before and these
are real time things that youcan do when you are feeling kind
(19:53):
of negative, kind of not in agreat headspace, to start to
think about the good, whatyou're grateful for.
Yeah, like that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I got an awesome OK, I got an awesome story about
playing.
It was a great playing injuredstory.
You ready for this?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, I'm ready, we'll have to.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So okay.
So one of my clients he got anotification that he was a
manager in a healthcareorganization and he got a
notification that he's gettinglaid off.
And he had he and I had workedtogether to land him this job.
It was his dream job.
He loved the organization, theyloved him, and he was so bummed
(20:31):
that he was getting laid off.
And so at first he was just kindof that victim, like why is
this happening?
Why me?
And I said, okay, that's fine,you get.
You know, you get five minutesfor that.
And now like what is thatfuture affirmation?
What do you want to believe?
Um, and he really, reallystruggled to talk about playing
(20:52):
injured.
He's gonna lose his job.
You know, how's he gonnasupport his family?
Um, he was.
He was really upset with withthe news and he said I said what
do you want to?
Who do you want to be?
He said I want to do the rightthing even when it feels like
the wrong thing is happening tome.
I was like that's awesome.
(21:12):
So he started writing that downevery day, telling himself over
and over and over I'm going tobe, that's who I'm going to be.
So the organization then askedhim, or they said you know,
here's your layoff day, you'regoing to get laid off at this
date.
And he showed up that way.
Right up until the last minute,people would stop him in the
(21:33):
hallway.
It's not fair.
This is happening.
I can't believe they're doingthis to you.
And he'd say I'm grateful forthis organization.
They've really given me anopportunity to support my family
and learn some new things.
So it's the 11th hour.
It's like the day before hislast day.
And he gets a phone call from asenior leader and they're like
man, we've been talking aboutyou, we can't believe how
(21:56):
awesome you are, and we decidedwe don't want to lose you, so we
think we can combine your jobwith another job.
Anyway, we can find some salaryhere and we're going to give
you a new position here.
And we're going to give you anew position.
It's a promotion and a 35% payincrease.
So he gets that.
And he gets that because of theway he showed up.
(22:16):
But then, josh, 18 months later,same thing happens again.
The organization goes throughanother round of layoffs and he
gets the same announcement andhe calls me up.
He's like Marianne, it's notfair.
I can't believe it.
I did everything right.
I did everything right.
I just can't believe it.
He says to me what should I do?
I said well, what do you thinkyou should do?
(22:37):
So he says I'm going to do theright thing, even when it feels
like the wrong thing ishappening to me.
Now this is a new story andit's not one that he feels like.
So it's him stepping intosomebody else.
So he thought worked for melast time, maybe it'll work for
me again.
11th hour comes, oh, and thissecond time around they asked
(22:57):
him to help out with thetransition, which essentially
means he has to help peoplethrough their layoffs even when
he's getting laid off.
So he does everything right.
The last day comes, he'swaiting for the phone call.
He doesn't get it.
He packs all his stuff up in abox.
He goes home so bummed out.
(23:18):
Next day gets a phone call.
Senior vice president says Icalled the CEO, I told them
about you.
Ceo says I've been hearingabout this guy.
Let's get him back in here.
They call him back, ask him tointerview for a job he wasn't
even considered for, gets thejob, another big pay increase
(23:39):
and now he's like I like thisjob even better than the last
one.
But I think you know.
So the point of the story islike the stuff works when you
start to think what is it thatyou want?
Who is the person that you wantto be, what is the story you
want to tell or demonstrate?
You've got to just write itdown and start leaning into it,
(24:03):
even when you don't feel like it.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
And you know he did it, he just he focused on what
he can control.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
He focused on what he could control.
That is exactly right.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
And all that he was.
He was kind of comfortable withthe uncertainty and that's kind
of a thing that even in my lifeI've been looking to become
more comfortable with, and thatis uncertainty.
When things are uncertain, howcan I see the good in it, how
can I stay calm in it and trustthat it's going to go my way?
(24:39):
And you kind of stated it islike kind of state what you want
to happen in the future andstate what you can control.
He didn't really state anythingthat was out of his control.
He didn't say they're going tokeep me Right.
Yeah, hey, how do I want toshow up, how do I want to be?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Absolutely, because it was a thousand percent
unknown and uncertainty.
I mean he's facing uncertaintyof I'm going to lose my job.
Where's my money going to comefrom?
How am I going to support myfamily?
What am I going to do?
What would I apply for?
No, I'm just going to focus ondoing the right thing, even when
it feels like the wrong thing'shappening to me.
But you're to your point.
(25:21):
He focused on what he couldcontrol.
How am I going to show up everyday?
What conversations am I goingto have?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
So, yeah, tell me this then.
Right, how do we get past pastexperiences that may have caused
a certain belief that we have?
So, for instance, let's say, ifhe did lose his job the first
time and it happens again, ormaybe he gets an email or a
(25:58):
phone call and he starts to getthese heart, his heart starts
pumping, he starts to feel someanxiety because this feels very
similar to last time.
How do you not let pastexperiences kind of ruin current
circumstances?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, yeah, so it depends on what past
circumstance you want to focuson.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
So I always like to say what you focus on expands.
So you can focus on a pastexperience that is negative or
you can focus on a pastexperience that is positive.
So what I, so what I'll tellclients, is okay.
What is it you're tellingyourself that's holding you back
?
Let's write it down.
What is the story, the newstory you want to tell yourself
(26:49):
or believe?
And then, where do you haveevidence of your past that talks
about that future story youwant to believe?
So let me explain what I mean.
So we might say let's say I wantthis.
(27:10):
I don't think I'm good enough.
I'm not good enough.
I want to apply for this jobbut I'm not good enough.
And you know, I could sit hereall day long and tell myself all
these negative stories aboutthe past.
I don't have the right degree.
I've been passed over a milliontimes before.
I've already tried this.
It hasn't worked All the thingsof the past.
(27:36):
Or you could say I'm resourcefulenough to apply for this job
and get it.
Okay, where do I have evidencein my past that I've been
resourceful?
Have I ever been resourcefulbefore?
Yeah, yeah, I figured out howto get through college and it
was pretty expensive and I didthat.
Well, I do remember this onejob that I got that I really
wanted.
So now what you want to do isbecause this makes it easier for
your brain to make this leapinto this new future story Once
you have the evidence.
(27:56):
That's kind of the secretingredient, because of something
called cognitive dissonance andyou might have heard of
cognitive dissonance, josh.
It's like when you have twocompeting thoughts in your brain
, your brain can only hold on toone, so it's going to try to
kick out that new idea that youwant to lean into.
So if you have some real lifeevidence, it makes it easier for
(28:20):
your brain to hold on to thatnew future story that you want
to tell yourself.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, and so that's what I'm starting to realize is
that it's in all of this.
It's about focusing on the good, choosing what you want to
focus on and choosing the good.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, yeah, what you focus on expands, so it really
does.
I mean this is, you know,there's some research in my book
, the Locus of Control, andthere are a lot of people have
written about that, and StephenCovey has written about that as
well.
But, you know, this idea thatwhatever we focus on, more of
that is going to show up.
And so, you know, if you focuson the negatives, it's not to
(29:03):
discount them, it's not to saythat they didn't exist, and I'm
definitely talking aboutsomething different than, oh, I
just experienced the loss of aloved one and I'm grieving.
Well, that's different, youknow, because people will always
ask me that, marianne, are youtrying to, you know, lean into
toxic positivity?
No, no, we're not saying that,but we're just saying you know,
(29:26):
when you focus on somethingnegative, you will stay in that
space, and so there's time forfeeling the emotion, but there's
a time for moving through itand focusing on what you want
for your future.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, yeah, and not even you know.
I know a lot of people.
You hear about toxic positivity, but also, no matter what
negative is going to be toxicregardless, Right?
Sometimes, they say hey, it ishard to be in a place where you
can be positive, but can you doyour best not to be negative?
(30:02):
Can you be neutral and justkind of be as present as you can
?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, I mean so much of this conversation.
The conversations on this topicare really contextual.
It's all about the context.
And so you know, again, we aremade with well, what does Brene
Brown say?
87 different emotions, orsomething like that, and the and
our emotions are meant to befelt Absolutely.
You know something sad happensyou lose a loved one, or you
(30:32):
know, you know something sadhappens you lose a loved one, or
you know, yes, you want to feelthat, but you're feeling that
and moving through it.
That's a whole different topicthan what we're talking about.
We're talking about, you know,showing up in the workplace and
you know someone in theworkplace is like can you
believe the boss did this?
You know constant, chroniccomplaining, constant chronic
(30:52):
criticizing or judgment, judge,being judgmental of someone else
or yourself.
That's what we're talking about.
That's completely differentthan you know feeling those, the
emotions that are meant to befelt, which, by the way, they're
meant to be felt and passedthrough like a weather pattern,
not like stay in that space.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, 100%.
So 10 stories.
Right In your book Self Talkyou talk about 10 stories you
tell yourself that hold you back.
Is there any more common themesthat you see in those 10
stories?
Right, you talk about some typeof version of not feeling good
(31:31):
enough and then kind of havingthat victim mentality.
Is there anything else that youfeel like most people or a
common theme that a lot of folksare held back by?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
You know there are another.
So I'd say all 10 of them arevery common and I think if
people get the book they'll seethemselves in those stories and
the book is meant to be readcover to cover.
But then you can pull it outand say which one of these do I
need today?
Like, which story am I tellingtoday?
But another one is really like,what if I fail?
Oh, you know, people are afraidto take action because they're
(32:08):
afraid of failure.
Right, that was actually thestory.
So you referenced the TED talkthat I did, taking these, a
group of you know small town hiphop kids from Aurora, illinois,
and winning the national juniorOlympics in a category called
dance sport, which, by the way,we were neither dancers not real
(32:31):
dancers.
We never took dance lessons,right, and we were not athletes.
But I learned.
Those kids taught me because Iwas.
We had an invitation to competeand I thought are you going to
be kidding me?
We can't do that.
Like what are people going tothink?
What if we fall on our faces?
You know, what if people laughat us?
(32:53):
So I was terrified.
What if we fell?
And the kids were the opposite?
They were like let's do it.
And they taught me to say yesfirst, and that's a big antidote
to what if I fail?
Let's say yes first instead oflead with all the reasons
something might not work.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, just say yes and then allow yourself to
figure it out.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah, say yes first.
And you know, listen, I alwayssay, like, think of your goal as
an experiment instead of thisbig final destination.
Like what if I fail?
It's just a science experiment,maybe it'll go well, maybe it
won't.
I'll learn something, I'll havean experience and we'll move on
.
So it takes the pressure offwhen you think of your goal as
(33:40):
an experiment.
And then I like to say you know, start with small decisions
that don't feel so big and scary.
So just start with somethingsmall, build on, build on.
And the third thing I say whenyou're afraid of failing is when
you're telling yourself a story, play the story all the way
through to the end.
(34:00):
And that's something I learnedfrom my sponsor and AA, and that
is because we say, oh my gosh,I might fail.
And then we stop there andwe're terrified.
But if I play that story allthe way through, I go okay, I
show up, I don't win a goldmedal, and then I get on a plane
(34:21):
and I fly back home and I go tobed in my own bed and I get up
and have a meal Like I'm justkeeping that.
Oh, it's not that big of a dealwhen I play the story all the
way through.
So those are some of the toolsyou can read more about in the
book to overcome that story.
That's a real common one,especially for people that have
they feel like they just havemore inside them.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
And they're just afraid to reach out.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, I love that.
What if I fail?
And then actually thinkingabout it, like think about it
and you'll realize that it's notas bad as I think it is.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Right, that's exactly right.
Because we stop with the wordfail and then we is as if we're
just falling off a cliff.
But if we keep going andthinking it through and playing
the tape as if it's a story thatcontinues, oh, that's not that
big of a deal yeah, now tell methis do you think that when
(35:22):
people think about failing right, um, it might make themselves,
um?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
they're scared of the feeling of it because it
reminds them, maybe, ofsomething before right?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, that's yeah, absolutely.
You know, we are afraid of ourfeelings.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
And they're just feelings.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
And that's it.
Talk about that.
They're just feelings.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
The way you said it is is, if not, that I take them
serious.
They're good indicators, butdon't allow them to kind of like
rule your day to day, Rightyeah?
Speaker 2 (36:03):
exactly.
Don't take it too seriously.
Right, you know you.
So what I like to say is thatour feelings are just alarm
signals, like if my, if my alarmclock I don't know if I'm
dating myself like I still havean alarm clock, even though.
I have one on my phone but if itgoes, if that alarm goes off in
the morning, it's telling me totake an action.
(36:25):
And in that case, get up andour feelings are the same way.
Uh, you know, my, my heart ispounding and our feelings are
the same way.
You know, my heart is pounding,my face feels hot, my pulse is
racing.
Oh, there's an alarm bell going.
I'm feeling anxious, I'mfeeling worried, all of those
things.
That's an alarm bell, okay,that's all it is.
So it's telling me to take anaction.
(36:47):
And once I can identify okay, Ihave this alarm bell going off
I'm having feelings ofanxiousness.
What is the action that'sindicating for me to take?
And then that's my decision andthat's how.
It's just a feeling, yeah, butit's like you do something with
it.
I don't have to let it rule meand just stop, stop me in my
(37:10):
tracks.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
And then also too right Feelings.
Feelings they come and go,right feel this weather.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yeah, you can feel this way one time, one day, and
then feel like this the next day.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yes, just like you and I like today it's 23 below
zero for you and I josh yeah,and next week it's going to be
45 degrees.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
It's crazy, but I guess, um, it is.
You know, like you mentioned,the uncertainty that scares
people, especially when it comesto failure.
You play it all the way through.
You get an opportunity to getsome certainty on what you're
(37:55):
afraid of, right?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think you know you mentioned
uncertainty a couple of times.
I mean, that really is a bigtrigger for a lot of people in
the workplace.
Things are uncertain, certainly, you know, in our lives, just
are you get in your car,everything's going to be
uncertain on the road, um and so.
But we're wired for certainty,we're wired for
(38:18):
self-preservation and safety,and so uncertainty doesn't feel
safe, um and so.
We've got to have the tools,like I have in the book, to help
us navigate through uncertainty, um, things that are unknown.
And that's, you know, one ofthe biggest constants, and is
going to continue to increase,is change and uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, so we might as well get comfortable with it
right?
Speaker 2 (38:44):
You've got to just develop the tools right.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
And you talk about tools right, and I definitely
want to talk about this.
And you talk about tools rightand I definitely want to talk
about this.
I'm looking at your websiteright now and these tools that
you have in this book.
Right now, folks can downloadfree chapters, download a free
workbook, right Group coachingprogram as well, so you have a
(39:10):
lot of tools that really helpfolks start to become masters of
their mind and get a betterunderstanding.
Folks can pre-order your bookon Amazon, bronze and Noble
Target Bookshop Books A MillionIndigo, multiple different ways
you can.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Anywhere.
Books are sold Wherever youyour your favorite place to buy
books.
You can pre-order this book andyou're right you can get.
The workbook is free, so that'son my website and the workbook
has every single tool.
Every chapter's got severaltools at the end of the chapter.
Those are all in the workbook.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
You can get that and you can start reading right away
yeah, I love it, and you canfind this actually on
mariannerinnercom backslashself-talk very easy, very easy
to get to.
Uh, it's.
This is such a big subject andI think the first time I heard
about self-talk it was actually,um, my college coach so showed
(40:10):
us NFL Films video on YouTube.
It's actually still on YouTubetoday.
These NFL players talking tothemselves right, they had the
mic on their jersey A bunch ofexamples of them talking to
themselves, reminding themselveswho they were right.
Even these top athletes in theworld, some of the people at the
(40:32):
top of their position, theystill need self-talk to remind
themselves who they are, to helpthem in those times where they
have some type of self-doubt.
And that was huge for me to seebecause I was thinking, hey,
these guys should feel confident, they should feel on top of the
(40:52):
world.
They don't need self-talk, butthey happen to use it more than
anybody else was thinking, hey,these guys should feel confident
, they should feel on top of theworld.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
They don't need self-talk, but they happen to
use it more than anybody else.
So it was huge to see.
That is such a great example.
I love that example becauseyou're right, those are the
heroes and the models we look upto.
I can think of one particularclient.
She was a director and a smallorganization and she was so
unhappy and she had suchnegative self-talk.
She really thought she wasn'tgood enough and she was
miserable.
She was going to quit.
(41:21):
She said, marianne, I'm goingto quit and go clean houses.
And I was like whoa, whoa, whoa.
And then she kind of figuredout that she really loved the
work.
It was just some other things.
She thought she didn't have theright degree.
She thought she wasn't as smartas other people around.
So we worked on changing herself-talk and today she's the
CEO of that organization.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah.
Wow that is huge Just changing.
You know people will come to meand they're there.
They have strained work,strained relationships in the
workplace or out.
They are unfulfilled, so theywant more fulfilling work.
And when we start theconversations, that's what we're
(42:03):
talking about.
When we peel back the layers ofthe onion, there's usually some
story.
They're telling themselves thatthat's really the root of
what's keeping them stuckthey're telling themselves that
that's really the root of what'skeeping them stuck.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
100%.
I love it.
Where can folks continue tofollow your story?
Obviously, we gave them yourwebsite.
Where else can folks continueto follow you?
Speaker 2 (42:25):
can find me on Facebook.
You can find me on Instagram asMary Ann Renner Speaker, who
knew it was so hard to get yourown name on Instagram and
LinkedIn?
So you can find me on thosethree social media platforms as
well.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I love it.
And no, marianne, I appreciateyou coming on the show.
It's just, I feel like it'ssuch a simple thing that it's
simple not to do either.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Right, oh my gosh, yes, you, that is the million
dollar word.
So the tools are super powerfuland the reason they're so
powerful is because they'resimple, because simple works.
Yeah, you know I've done everykind of workout program, every
kind of nutrition program.
The more complicated it is, theless likely I'm going to be to
follow through.
Yes, so, but you just got to doit.
(43:17):
That's all.
You just got to do it.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Stay accountable to it and letit become a habit.
Let it become a habit for youand watch how you think
differently about who you are.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Right, absolutely yes , what it's all about.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
But, marianne, we appreciate you coming on the
show and you added value to ustoday.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Oh my gosh, it has been such a delight and, josh, I
love the work that you areputting out in the world.
Thank you for having me and fordoing what you do.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
I appreciate it, all right.
Welcome to another episode of Playing Injured.
We have Marianne Renner, who isa leadership coach, leadership
trainer, a keynote speaker.
She also has a TEDx talk aswell.
That was an amazing story, butshe helps thousands of leaders
remove self-imposed barriers andunleash their greatest
(00:21):
potential.
Marianne, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Gosh, thank you so much.
I really am excited to be here.
I really am.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yes, me and Marianne.
We got a chance to catch upbefore we hit record and we have
so much in common.
She's in Aurora, not too farfrom where I grew up.
We studied the same thing incollege.
We have a lot in common, right?
So, marianne would love to hearfrom you who is Marianne and
(00:50):
how does she spend her timetoday?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
thank you, josh.
Well, as you mentioned, I'm inAurora, far western Chicago
suburbs, born and bred here,actually third generation from
the city, and I am actually theyoungest of nine kids, so I have
eight older siblings I'm thebaby and I have a million nieces
(01:12):
and nephews, as you can imaginewhom I love like crazy and a
godson that I absolutely adore,and I'm just living my life's
purpose, really working withleaders and helping them remove
those self-imposed barrierswhich show up in the form of
sabotaging self-talk, and sothat's how I wrote the book,
(01:34):
came to write the book, theself-talk 10 stories you tell
yourself that hold you back.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, I love that.
So I want to go into thisbecause my mother is actually
the youngest of 11 kids, rightMe and her.
Me and her have just amazingconversations, very deep
conversations the older I get,and one of the beliefs that she
had grown up as the youngest of11 kids was just being invisible
(02:03):
, right, not being seen.
Did you have that experiencegrowing up youngest?
The youngest of 11 kids wasjust being invisible, right, not
being seen.
Did you have?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
that experience growing up youngest of nine,
what was kind of that experience?
Like you know, this is what'svery unique about me.
So I'm the youngest by a lot.
So my mom had eight kids.
She thought she was done.
At 38 years old she had hereighth baby and then, when my
brother was eight years old,when my mom was 46, I came along
.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Surprise.
And so in some ways, yes, butin some ways, I grew up with in
kind of a small household, soday to day there weren't a lot
of people around, but holidayswere humongous.
A lot of my siblings weremarried with kids.
Some of them were married withkids by the time I came along.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Different yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Very different, very different.
I love it.
So the self-imposed barriersand self-talk I want to
understand this because it's acombination of the two.
Right, where I know our brainis pretty much wired for
negative.
Right, obviously, the period,historic times we needed to
(03:16):
protect ourselves, so we had tolean negative.
But also, too, we have thesenegative experiences that happen
that can kind of wire ourbeliefs, or that self-talk.
Talk to me about that.
Like, how does theseself-imposed barriers get
created?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, so you're absolutely right, josh.
You know it's that old.
Is it nature or nurtureargument or discussion or debate
?
And it's actually it's a bothand and.
So a lot of the what, what wehave today and why these our
self-talk is so problematic.
So much of it we're not awareof, because all of your listen,
(03:57):
your belief system is just thoseare thoughts.
You start out with a thought,you repeat that thought over and
over, it becomes a habit andthen the habitual thought
pattern becomes a belief andit's unconscious, largely
because those thoughts start ata very young age.
So we hear something, we seesomething, there's an external
(04:19):
situation, but then it sort ofcomes into our head and it goes
through a process or kind oflike a little factory in there
and, depending on how we'rewired or who we are, we're
processing all different ways.
We sort of repeat thesehabitual thoughts over and over
(04:48):
and then, before you know it,it's our belief system and the
self-talk that we're tellingourselves and not even realizing
we're sabotaging our ownoutcomes.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, 100 percent.
And it does happen very young,yeah, point where we just don't
even know where they, wherethese thoughts even come from.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, for sure you know the scientists will talk
about something calledneuroplasticity, and I won't get
too geeky on that.
But our brains are very pliableright after birth, again when
we're around age seven, which iswhy they say a majority of our
beliefs form by age seven andthen again in adolescence.
But the good news is thisneuroplasticity means it's the
way that our brains are, youknow, shaping and forming, and
(05:38):
we can change that anytime inour lives, like any, just like
you know our muscles You're anathlete.
We were talking about workingout and we can change the shape
of our muscles by exercisingthem, and the same is true with
our thoughts.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah.
So I'm glad you brought this up, because neuroplasticity is
something that I've been kind oflooking at in the new year.
I've been a little bit moredisciplined with
self-affirmations and doing itin the morning, right.
They talk about how our brainsare, very the neuroplasticity of
(06:15):
it.
In the morning, we can reallystart to shape our thoughts.
Is it any time when folksshould be doing this?
Is it when they have a badthought, shutting it down and
replacing it with a positivethought?
What is your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I don't think there's a magic time, whatever works
for you it's the same with.
So you know, you and I we havethe sports background, but I was
a personal trainer.
I didn't play team sports, butpeople would say what's the best
exercise for me to do?
And I would say the one you'regoing to do.
I'm not going to tell you, youknow, to go running if you hate
running and you're going to quitin a week.
(06:52):
And I would say the same thingif you're trying to change your
self-talk and you're trying tocreate new habit patterns.
The one key is if you dosomething at the same time every
day, that helps to form a habit, like I brush my teeth the same
time every day.
You know there are certainthings I do every day and I do
them in the same order and I dothem at the same time, and
(07:15):
that's the easiest way I havefound to develop a habit.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, we're looking to develop a habit and you know
it's crazy is we have a habit oftalking to ourselves negatively
and when you hear somebodyspeaking to themselves
positively or they say youshould talk, you should do more
self-talk, we are like that canbe weird, or it seems weird or
(07:43):
feels weird when we already aretalking to ourselves regardless.
So you might as well talk toyourself positively, right?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
All day long we're talking to ourselves.
I always say you know we're, Icall it like we're telling
ourselves stories, that's ourself-talk and you know, when I
started my career, I started outas a newspaper reporter and
then transitioned to marketing.
But I was living in Duluth,minnesota, next stop North Pole,
(08:13):
and I was working as anewspaper reporter and I was.
It was really cool job becauseI was interviewing really
interesting people and writingstories about interesting
people's lives.
But what didn't dawn on me atthe time was that the biggest
story that I was writing was thestory of my own life.
Yeah, not with a pen and paperor laptop, but with every
(08:36):
thought that went through mymind about what I was capable of
, of achieving and what wasgoing on in the world around.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Because we're telling ourselves stories about, you
know, something that's happeningand those stories can be very
telling and influential on howwe show up in the world yeah,
and you know I'm thinking aboutthese stories that I've told
myself and how I perceived asituation as something where I
(09:11):
wasn't good enough or I wasn'tworthy enough, when the
situation had nothing to do withthat.
It was so many other factors,but this belief is something
that I formed, right, yep, um,what are stories?
Go ahead, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Okay, well, I was just going to.
I think I'm going to answeryour question because, by the
way, some version of I'm notgood enough is in the top.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
That is one of the stories.
So the book talks about 10stories.
You tell yourself that is theone.
In the individual coachingsessions that I do, that is the
one I hear the most.
There's two, there's two.
They're kind of tied level,they are they're crushing it.
And then they'll come to me andin the safe confidentiality of
(10:11):
the one-on-one coachingenvironment, they'll sort of
confess their deep, dark secret,which is some version of I'm
not good enough and I'm blownaway because I'm looking at all
these amazing things they'redoing, the amazing humans that
they are, and I'm thinking likeI don't know who you're looking
at when you look in the mirror,because I'm talking to somebody
completely different.
(10:32):
But that's one.
I'm, I'm not good enough and,um, some version of it's not my
fault is the other one what doyou mean by that?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
It's not?
It's not your fault, or it's?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
not, someone did something to me or something
happened to me, and I guess Iwould use the phrase kind of
victim mindset, and it putspeople in a very disempowered
state.
So there may be externalcircumstances that are outside
(11:08):
your control, that aren't yourfault, but when you repeat that
story over and over in yourbrain now you're stuck, because
now you've sort of convincedyourself there's nothing I can
do.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, yeah, that's one thing about playing a victim
or seeing yourself as a victimis that you don't allow yourself
to see.
Give yourself ownership tochange it, right.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Exactly, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
It's interesting and you know I learned these, so I,
I.
This is how I learned a lot ofthese lessons, Cause, by the way
, it's school of hard knocks forme.
But I started.
So you know, we talked aboutthe stories we tell ourselves
from a very young age and mystorytelling started.
I remember when I was nineyears old and I was on my way to
(11:55):
school in the fourth grade, andI got called home from school
and I walk in the door andthere's my dad.
He's sitting in the room, he'sacross from me, he's got his
arms stretched out.
So I walked up to him and hewraps his arms around me and
we're eye to eye.
He's sitting, I'm standing, andhe said three words forever
changed my life.
(12:15):
He said mommy's in heaven.
And in that moment I justremember how I felt.
I was so scared and I startedwhy?
Why did this happen?
Why did this happen to me?
Why is this happening now?
(12:37):
All normal questions, but whenthey start, especially at a
young age, and they repeat andthey repeat and I felt so scared
and alone.
And why me?
Why me?
(12:59):
And ultimately the lonelinessand all of those sad feelings,
they continue to grow and growover the years and I used to lie
in my bed at night and I wouldjust cry out loud God, let me
die.
And ultimately the doctors gavemy story a name for me
depression and I had threedecades of depression and I
tried everything to make thosebad feelings go away.
(13:21):
And I mean I tried it all.
I tried workaholism did notwork.
I tried alcoholism workaholismdid not work.
I tried alcoholism definitelydid not work.
And so everything I did becauseof my stories, I was just
trying everything I could tomake the bad feelings go away.
Um, but over time, a lot ofresearch, a lot of book reading,
(13:45):
a lot of, you know, studyingall the things we're talking
about, I realized that changingmy self-talk was the key that
finally turned everything around.
Yeah, yeah, and I.
And it changed my career, itchanged my relationships, it
changed everything.
And so I thought, golly, ifthat worked that way for me, is
(14:05):
it a coincidence or could thesetools help someone else?
So I started sharing them withmy leadership coaching clients,
and I started seeing their liveschange.
I mean transformation, and it'slike one after the other, after
the other, and then I realizedthis idea of changing your
self-talk.
It is a game changer for anyonewho's trying to overcome
(14:30):
anything in their life orachieve anything that they'd
like to achieve.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
So you know, you talked aboutworkaholism and I'm thinking
about how many people out therewho are working extremely hard
to make themselves feel betterby accomplishment.
Right, if I accomplish this,then I'll feel better, then I'll
(14:57):
have friends, whatever thebelief is or whatever the story
is right.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah, exactly, because every decision is just
we're all trying to get afeeling.
I mean, we're earth, human,earthlings.
We all want to feel a certainthing.
We want to feel happiness, wewant to feel joy, we want to
feel ecstasy, we want to feelwhatever all of our decisions,
or we want to avoid a negativefeeling.
So you know, listen, I want toeat that piece of cake.
It's because it's going to makeme, I want to feel, you know,
(15:23):
whatever.
So so, yeah, that's, that'sexactly right.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, and I'm thinking now.
I'm thinking you mentioned andI would love to get into some
like the practical ways of howyou start to implement this but
you mentioned how people theysee themselves differently than
what they actually are.
Right, you talked about how yousat down with very successful
(15:50):
people who are.
They seem like they haveeverything all put together from
your point of view.
From your perspective, you lookat them like, hey, you are
amazing, you have so much goingfor you, but the internal
dialogue that they have aboutthemselves is totally different.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Right, and so I would love to hear yeah, what did
that look like?
How did we start to flip it sothat it's more in alignment with
who they actually are?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
So that's, and so I'm going to try to select some
tools, because the bookliterally has dozens and dozens.
So every the way it's organized, every chapter is a story.
You tell yourself how I learnedthat lesson, and then it's got
tools to change it and then someclient examples.
So one of the examples that Iuse is we're telling ourselves
(16:42):
stories about the past, we'retelling ourselves stories about
the present.
And we're telling ourselvesstories about the present and
we're telling ourselves storiesabout the future.
And so the stories about thepast are usually I, messed up
(17:03):
kids or like there's somethingthat I did wrong in the past.
And so I always say we want tochange our past stories and you
can do that by celebrating yourwins.
So I, a lot of this isjournaling, so getting a
notebook and every day writedown three wins from the day or
(17:26):
from the previous day, becauseusually all we're focused on is
what I did wrong.
So that's one, because thenyou're going to develop new
habit patterns.
If you do again, doesn't care,I don't care what if it's in the
morning or in the night, but doit same time every day.
You'll develop the habit.
You know, I got the kids outthe door on time.
I whatever it doesn't have tobe big or small Three things,
(17:50):
that three wins that youaccomplished, from the day every
day.
And then we're telling ourselvesstories about the present,
meaning it's usually all thethings I don't like.
Oh, I don't like what thisperson on my team did at work.
I don't like you know thispolitical ad that's coming
(18:12):
across my feed right now.
So I always say write downthree things that you're
grateful for.
And we talk about gratitudejournaling all the time, but
three things.
So, instead of going to workand saying I hate my boss, I
don't like the team, I don'tlike the work that I do, hey, I
get free coffee in the breakroom every day.
(18:33):
Whatever, three things everyday.
So that's the present.
And then, in the future is theaffirmation that you mentioned,
josh it's.
You know, maybe there'ssomething that you are telling
yourself now that's negative,but you'd like it to be
different in the future.
So write it down the way youwant to believe it, even if you
(18:54):
don't in the moment.
Yeah, so the past iscelebration, the present is
appreciation and the future isaffirmation.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I love that.
It's about focusing on the goodwhen it comes to these three
things as opposed to the bad.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yes, and I will tell you when you do this every day,
and you can do this in less than10 minutes, less than 10
minutes to do all three of thesein a day you will start to
change the way you're thinking,because it's becoming a new,
you're developing a new habityou're thinking because it's
becoming a new, you'redeveloping a new habit.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, yeah, and it's man, I can't, I can't tell you
how great gratitude is Momentsof anxiety, moments of you know
kind of feeling like you have anattitude we're never perfect,
right, and we talked aboutplaying injured before and these
are real time things that youcan do when you are feeling kind
(19:53):
of negative, kind of not in agreat headspace, to start to
think about the good, whatyou're grateful for.
Yeah, like that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I got an awesome OK, I got an awesome story about
playing.
It was a great playing injuredstory.
You ready for this?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, I'm ready, we'll have to.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So okay.
So one of my clients he got anotification that he was a
manager in a healthcareorganization and he got a
notification that he's gettinglaid off.
And he had he and I had workedtogether to land him this job.
It was his dream job.
He loved the organization, theyloved him, and he was so bummed
(20:31):
that he was getting laid off.
And so at first he was just kindof that victim, like why is
this happening?
Why me?
And I said, okay, that's fine,you get.
You know, you get five minutesfor that.
And now like what is thatfuture affirmation?
What do you want to believe?
Um, and he really, reallystruggled to talk about playing
(20:52):
injured.
He's gonna lose his job.
You know, how's he gonnasupport his family?
Um, he was.
He was really upset with withthe news and he said I said what
do you want to?
Who do you want to be?
He said I want to do the rightthing even when it feels like
the wrong thing is happening tome.
I was like that's awesome.
(21:12):
So he started writing that downevery day, telling himself over
and over and over I'm going tobe, that's who I'm going to be.
So the organization then askedhim, or they said you know,
here's your layoff day, you'regoing to get laid off at this
date.
And he showed up that way.
Right up until the last minute,people would stop him in the
(21:33):
hallway.
It's not fair.
This is happening.
I can't believe they're doingthis to you.
And he'd say I'm grateful forthis organization.
They've really given me anopportunity to support my family
and learn some new things.
So it's the 11th hour.
It's like the day before hislast day.
And he gets a phone call from asenior leader and they're like
man, we've been talking aboutyou, we can't believe how
(21:56):
awesome you are, and we decidedwe don't want to lose you, so we
think we can combine your jobwith another job.
Anyway, we can find some salaryhere and we're going to give
you a new position here.
And we're going to give you anew position.
It's a promotion and a 35% payincrease.
So he gets that.
And he gets that because of theway he showed up.
(22:16):
But then, josh, 18 months later,same thing happens again.
The organization goes throughanother round of layoffs and he
gets the same announcement andhe calls me up.
He's like Marianne, it's notfair.
I can't believe it.
I did everything right.
I did everything right.
I just can't believe it.
He says to me what should I do?
I said well, what do you thinkyou should do?
(22:37):
So he says I'm going to do theright thing, even when it feels
like the wrong thing ishappening to me.
Now this is a new story andit's not one that he feels like.
So it's him stepping intosomebody else.
So he thought worked for melast time, maybe it'll work for
me again.
11th hour comes, oh, and thissecond time around they asked
(22:57):
him to help out with thetransition, which essentially
means he has to help peoplethrough their layoffs even when
he's getting laid off.
So he does everything right.
The last day comes, he'swaiting for the phone call.
He doesn't get it.
He packs all his stuff up in abox.
He goes home so bummed out.
(23:18):
Next day gets a phone call.
Senior vice president says Icalled the CEO, I told them
about you.
Ceo says I've been hearingabout this guy.
Let's get him back in here.
They call him back, ask him tointerview for a job he wasn't
even considered for, gets thejob, another big pay increase
(23:39):
and now he's like I like thisjob even better than the last
one.
But I think you know.
So the point of the story islike the stuff works when you
start to think what is it thatyou want?
Who is the person that you wantto be, what is the story you
want to tell or demonstrate?
You've got to just write itdown and start leaning into it,
(24:03):
even when you don't feel like it.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
And you know he did it, he just he focused on what
he can control.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
He focused on what he could control.
That is exactly right.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
And all that he was.
He was kind of comfortable withthe uncertainty and that's kind
of a thing that even in my lifeI've been looking to become
more comfortable with, and thatis uncertainty.
When things are uncertain, howcan I see the good in it, how
can I stay calm in it and trustthat it's going to go my way?
(24:39):
And you kind of stated it islike kind of state what you want
to happen in the future andstate what you can control.
He didn't really state anythingthat was out of his control.
He didn't say they're going tokeep me Right.
Yeah, hey, how do I want toshow up, how do I want to be?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Absolutely, because it was a thousand percent
unknown and uncertainty.
I mean he's facing uncertaintyof I'm going to lose my job.
Where's my money going to comefrom?
How am I going to support myfamily?
What am I going to do?
What would I apply for?
No, I'm just going to focus ondoing the right thing, even when
it feels like the wrong thing'shappening to me.
But you're to your point.
(25:21):
He focused on what he couldcontrol.
How am I going to show up everyday?
What conversations am I goingto have?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
So, yeah, tell me this then.
Right, how do we get past pastexperiences that may have caused
a certain belief that we have?
So, for instance, let's say, ifhe did lose his job the first
time and it happens again, ormaybe he gets an email or a
(25:58):
phone call and he starts to getthese heart, his heart starts
pumping, he starts to feel someanxiety because this feels very
similar to last time.
How do you not let pastexperiences kind of ruin current
circumstances?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, yeah, so it depends on what past
circumstance you want to focuson.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
So I always like to say what you focus on expands.
So you can focus on a pastexperience that is negative or
you can focus on a pastexperience that is positive.
So what I, so what I'll tellclients, is okay.
What is it you're tellingyourself that's holding you back
?
Let's write it down.
What is the story, the newstory you want to tell yourself
(26:49):
or believe?
And then, where do you haveevidence of your past that talks
about that future story youwant to believe?
So let me explain what I mean.
So we might say let's say I wantthis.
(27:10):
I don't think I'm good enough.
I'm not good enough.
I want to apply for this jobbut I'm not good enough.
And you know, I could sit hereall day long and tell myself all
these negative stories aboutthe past.
I don't have the right degree.
I've been passed over a milliontimes before.
I've already tried this.
It hasn't worked All the thingsof the past.
(27:36):
Or you could say I'm resourcefulenough to apply for this job
and get it.
Okay, where do I have evidencein my past that I've been
resourceful?
Have I ever been resourcefulbefore?
Yeah, yeah, I figured out howto get through college and it
was pretty expensive and I didthat.
Well, I do remember this onejob that I got that I really
wanted.
So now what you want to do isbecause this makes it easier for
your brain to make this leapinto this new future story Once
you have the evidence.
(27:56):
That's kind of the secretingredient, because of something
called cognitive dissonance andyou might have heard of
cognitive dissonance, josh.
It's like when you have twocompeting thoughts in your brain
, your brain can only hold on toone, so it's going to try to
kick out that new idea that youwant to lean into.
So if you have some real lifeevidence, it makes it easier for
(28:20):
your brain to hold on to thatnew future story that you want
to tell yourself.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, and so that's what I'm starting to realize is
that it's in all of this.
It's about focusing on the good, choosing what you want to
focus on and choosing the good.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, yeah, what you focus on expands, so it really
does.
I mean this is, you know,there's some research in my book
, the Locus of Control, andthere are a lot of people have
written about that, and StephenCovey has written about that as
well.
But, you know, this idea thatwhatever we focus on, more of
that is going to show up.
And so, you know, if you focuson the negatives, it's not to
(29:03):
discount them, it's not to saythat they didn't exist, and I'm
definitely talking aboutsomething different than, oh, I
just experienced the loss of aloved one and I'm grieving.
Well, that's different, youknow, because people will always
ask me that, marianne, are youtrying to, you know, lean into
toxic positivity?
No, no, we're not saying that,but we're just saying you know,
(29:26):
when you focus on somethingnegative, you will stay in that
space, and so there's time forfeeling the emotion, but there's
a time for moving through itand focusing on what you want
for your future.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, yeah, and not even you know.
I know a lot of people.
You hear about toxic positivity, but also, no matter what
negative is going to be toxicregardless, Right?
Sometimes, they say hey, it ishard to be in a place where you
can be positive, but can you doyour best not to be negative?
(30:02):
Can you be neutral and justkind of be as present as you can
?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, I mean so much of this conversation.
The conversations on this topicare really contextual.
It's all about the context.
And so you know, again, we aremade with well, what does Brene
Brown say?
87 different emotions, orsomething like that, and the and
our emotions are meant to befelt Absolutely.
You know something sad happensyou lose a loved one, or you
(30:32):
know, you know something sadhappens you lose a loved one, or
you know, yes, you want to feelthat, but you're feeling that
and moving through it.
That's a whole different topicthan what we're talking about.
We're talking about, you know,showing up in the workplace and
you know someone in theworkplace is like can you
believe the boss did this?
You know constant, chroniccomplaining, constant chronic
(30:52):
criticizing or judgment, judge,being judgmental of someone else
or yourself.
That's what we're talking about.
That's completely differentthan you know feeling those, the
emotions that are meant to befelt, which, by the way, they're
meant to be felt and passedthrough like a weather pattern,
not like stay in that space.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, 100%.
So 10 stories.
Right In your book Self Talkyou talk about 10 stories you
tell yourself that hold you back.
Is there any more common themesthat you see in those 10
stories?
Right, you talk about some typeof version of not feeling good
(31:31):
enough and then kind of havingthat victim mentality.
Is there anything else that youfeel like most people or a
common theme that a lot of folksare held back by?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
You know there are another.
So I'd say all 10 of them arevery common and I think if
people get the book they'll seethemselves in those stories and
the book is meant to be readcover to cover.
But then you can pull it outand say which one of these do I
need today?
Like, which story am I tellingtoday?
But another one is really like,what if I fail?
Oh, you know, people are afraidto take action because they're
(32:08):
afraid of failure.
Right, that was actually thestory.
So you referenced the TED talkthat I did, taking these, a
group of you know small town hiphop kids from Aurora, illinois,
and winning the national juniorOlympics in a category called
dance sport, which, by the way,we were neither dancers not real
(32:31):
dancers.
We never took dance lessons,right, and we were not athletes.
But I learned.
Those kids taught me because Iwas.
We had an invitation to competeand I thought are you going to
be kidding me?
We can't do that.
Like what are people going tothink?
What if we fall on our faces?
You know, what if people laughat us?
(32:53):
So I was terrified.
What if we fell?
And the kids were the opposite?
They were like let's do it.
And they taught me to say yesfirst, and that's a big antidote
to what if I fail?
Let's say yes first instead oflead with all the reasons
something might not work.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, just say yes and then allow yourself to
figure it out.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah, say yes first.
And you know, listen, I alwayssay, like, think of your goal as
an experiment instead of thisbig final destination.
Like what if I fail?
It's just a science experiment,maybe it'll go well, maybe it
won't.
I'll learn something, I'll havean experience and we'll move on
.
So it takes the pressure offwhen you think of your goal as
(33:40):
an experiment.
And then I like to say you know, start with small decisions
that don't feel so big and scary.
So just start with somethingsmall, build on, build on.
And the third thing I say whenyou're afraid of failing is when
you're telling yourself a story, play the story all the way
through to the end.
(34:00):
And that's something I learnedfrom my sponsor and AA, and that
is because we say, oh my gosh,I might fail.
And then we stop there andwe're terrified.
But if I play that story allthe way through, I go okay, I
show up, I don't win a goldmedal, and then I get on a plane
(34:21):
and I fly back home and I go tobed in my own bed and I get up
and have a meal Like I'm justkeeping that.
Oh, it's not that big of a dealwhen I play the story all the
way through.
So those are some of the toolsyou can read more about in the
book to overcome that story.
That's a real common one,especially for people that have
they feel like they just havemore inside them.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
And they're just afraid to reach out.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, I love that.
What if I fail?
And then actually thinkingabout it, like think about it
and you'll realize that it's notas bad as I think it is.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Right, that's exactly right.
Because we stop with the wordfail and then we is as if we're
just falling off a cliff.
But if we keep going andthinking it through and playing
the tape as if it's a story thatcontinues, oh, that's not that
big of a deal yeah, now tell methis do you think that when
(35:22):
people think about failing right, um, it might make themselves,
um?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
they're scared of the feeling of it because it
reminds them, maybe, ofsomething before right?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, that's yeah, absolutely.
You know, we are afraid of ourfeelings.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
And they're just feelings.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
And that's it.
Talk about that.
They're just feelings.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
The way you said it is is, if not, that I take them
serious.
They're good indicators, butdon't allow them to kind of like
rule your day to day, Rightyeah?
Speaker 2 (36:03):
exactly.
Don't take it too seriously.
Right, you know you.
So what I like to say is thatour feelings are just alarm
signals, like if my, if my alarmclock I don't know if I'm
dating myself like I still havean alarm clock, even though.
I have one on my phone but if itgoes, if that alarm goes off in
the morning, it's telling me totake an action.
(36:25):
And in that case, get up andour feelings are the same way.
Uh, you know, my, my heart ispounding and our feelings are
the same way.
You know, my heart is pounding,my face feels hot, my pulse is
racing.
Oh, there's an alarm bell going.
I'm feeling anxious, I'mfeeling worried, all of those
things.
That's an alarm bell, okay,that's all it is.
So it's telling me to take anaction.
(36:47):
And once I can identify okay, Ihave this alarm bell going off
I'm having feelings ofanxiousness.
What is the action that'sindicating for me to take?
And then that's my decision andthat's how.
It's just a feeling, yeah, butit's like you do something with
it.
I don't have to let it rule meand just stop, stop me in my
(37:10):
tracks.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
And then also too right Feelings.
Feelings they come and go,right feel this weather.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yeah, you can feel this way one time, one day, and
then feel like this the next day.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yes, just like you and I like today it's 23 below
zero for you and I josh yeah,and next week it's going to be
45 degrees.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
It's crazy, but I guess, um, it is.
You know, like you mentioned,the uncertainty that scares
people, especially when it comesto failure.
You play it all the way through.
You get an opportunity to getsome certainty on what you're
(37:55):
afraid of, right?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think you know you mentioned
uncertainty a couple of times.
I mean, that really is a bigtrigger for a lot of people in
the workplace.
Things are uncertain, certainly, you know, in our lives, just
are you get in your car,everything's going to be
uncertain on the road, um and so.
But we're wired for certainty,we're wired for
(38:18):
self-preservation and safety,and so uncertainty doesn't feel
safe, um and so.
We've got to have the tools,like I have in the book, to help
us navigate through uncertainty, um, things that are unknown.
And that's, you know, one ofthe biggest constants, and is
going to continue to increase,is change and uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, so we might as well get comfortable with it
right?
Speaker 2 (38:44):
You've got to just develop the tools right.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
And you talk about tools right, and I definitely
want to talk about this.
And you talk about tools rightand I definitely want to talk
about this.
I'm looking at your websiteright now and these tools that
you have in this book.
Right now, folks can downloadfree chapters, download a free
workbook, right Group coachingprogram as well, so you have a
(39:10):
lot of tools that really helpfolks start to become masters of
their mind and get a betterunderstanding.
Folks can pre-order your bookon Amazon, bronze and Noble
Target Bookshop Books A MillionIndigo, multiple different ways
you can.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Anywhere.
Books are sold Wherever youyour your favorite place to buy
books.
You can pre-order this book andyou're right you can get.
The workbook is free, so that'son my website and the workbook
has every single tool.
Every chapter's got severaltools at the end of the chapter.
Those are all in the workbook.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
You can get that and you can start reading right away
yeah, I love it, and you canfind this actually on
mariannerinnercom backslashself-talk very easy, very easy
to get to.
Uh, it's.
This is such a big subject andI think the first time I heard
about self-talk it was actually,um, my college coach so showed
(40:10):
us NFL Films video on YouTube.
It's actually still on YouTubetoday.
These NFL players talking tothemselves right, they had the
mic on their jersey A bunch ofexamples of them talking to
themselves, reminding themselveswho they were right.
Even these top athletes in theworld, some of the people at the
(40:32):
top of their position, theystill need self-talk to remind
themselves who they are, to helpthem in those times where they
have some type of self-doubt.
And that was huge for me to seebecause I was thinking, hey,
these guys should feel confident, they should feel on top of the
(40:52):
world.
They don't need self-talk, butthey happen to use it more than
anybody else was thinking, hey,these guys should feel confident
, they should feel on top of theworld.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
They don't need self-talk, but they happen to
use it more than anybody else.
So it was huge to see.
That is such a great example.
I love that example becauseyou're right, those are the
heroes and the models we look upto.
I can think of one particularclient.
She was a director and a smallorganization and she was so
unhappy and she had suchnegative self-talk.
She really thought she wasn'tgood enough and she was
miserable.
She was going to quit.
(41:21):
She said, marianne, I'm goingto quit and go clean houses.
And I was like whoa, whoa, whoa.
And then she kind of figuredout that she really loved the
work.
It was just some other things.
She thought she didn't have theright degree.
She thought she wasn't as smartas other people around.
So we worked on changing herself-talk and today she's the
CEO of that organization.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah.
Wow that is huge Just changing.
You know people will come to meand they're there.
They have strained work,strained relationships in the
workplace or out.
They are unfulfilled, so theywant more fulfilling work.
And when we start theconversations, that's what we're
(42:03):
talking about.
When we peel back the layers ofthe onion, there's usually some
story.
They're telling themselves thatthat's really the root of
what's keeping them stuckthey're telling themselves that
that's really the root of what'skeeping them stuck.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
100%.
I love it.
Where can folks continue tofollow your story?
Obviously, we gave them yourwebsite.
Where else can folks continueto follow you?
Speaker 2 (42:25):
can find me on Facebook.
You can find me on Instagram asMary Ann Renner Speaker, who
knew it was so hard to get yourown name on Instagram and
LinkedIn?
So you can find me on thosethree social media platforms as
well.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I love it.
And no, marianne, I appreciateyou coming on the show.
It's just, I feel like it'ssuch a simple thing that it's
simple not to do either.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Right, oh my gosh, yes, you, that is the million
dollar word.
So the tools are super powerfuland the reason they're so
powerful is because they'resimple, because simple works.
Yeah, you know I've done everykind of workout program, every
kind of nutrition program.
The more complicated it is, theless likely I'm going to be to
follow through.
Yes, so, but you just got to doit.
(43:17):
That's all.
You just got to do it.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Stay accountable to it and letit become a habit.
Let it become a habit for youand watch how you think
differently about who you are.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Right, absolutely yes , what it's all about.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
But, marianne, we appreciate you coming on the
show and you added value to ustoday.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Oh my gosh, it has been such a delight and, josh, I
love the work that you areputting out in the world.
Thank you for having me and fordoing what you do.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
I appreciate it, all right.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.