February 7, 2025 • 26 mins
"Have you ever felt worthless to God? Today, Pastor Mark Crabtree continues sharing his journey from addiction to hope through a life-changing encounter with the Holy Spirit and God's transformative love, promises, and redemption."
Ever wondered how a single moment can completely alter the course of your life? Pastor Mark Crabtree shares his incredible story of transformation from despair to hope in this episode. Once lost in disbelief and addiction, Mark recounts his extraordinary encounter with the Holy Spirit during a seemingly ordinary day, which led him to a life-changing church service in Hamilton, New Jersey. His powerful testimony reminds us of the relentless love of God and the life-altering impact a personal relationship with Christ can have.
Together with Pastor Mark, we explore the promises of God and how they apply to our lives today. Through engaging and often humorous discussion, we unpack how these promises, affirmed by Paul as "yes and amen," are crucial for believers. We also reflect on the idea that as co-heirs with Christ, believers share in both his sufferings and glory. Pastor Mark's insights into Jesus' own trials, including his empathetic understanding of human distress, offer a relatable perspective on the transformative power of the cross.
As the episode unfolds, we confront the notion of redemption and the lies that lead us to doubt our worthiness. Pastor Mark emphasizes the importance of faith in Christ to make us acceptable to God, despite our sins. By surrendering to God’s transformative power, we can experience the fullness of life through His Spirit. Be inspired by Mark's journey and consider letting the Lord guide your path, preparing you for both the challenges of this world and the eternal glory to come.
Sr. Pastor, Refuge Church:
https://www.refugechurchnj.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RefugeChurchNJ
Assistant Pastor, Young Adults & Families, GraceWay Bible Church:
https://gracewaybc.org/who-we-are/our-team/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Lord you know.
Hey guys, you are now listeningto Plays on Word Radio.
It's the best.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
I never thought I'd have another opportunity to be a
parent again.
You know, he took this kid,this bitter, depressed, mixed up
kid, and placed him on solidground and gave him a hope and a
future.
You know, jeremiah 29, 11 is mylife verse and although it
doesn't apply, it applied to theIsraelites then, and I don't
take it out of context.
I do believe we have a God thatnever changes and I believe we
(00:31):
serve a God who is the sameyesterday, today and tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
You're the only name.
You're the only name.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
You're the only name.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Hello and welcome to Plays on Word Radio, where we
discuss, analyze, work and playon the Word of God.
Thank you for joining us onthis excursion.
Today let's join Pastor Teddy,also known as Fred David Kenny
Jr, the founder of Plays on WordTheater, as he does a deep dive
into the Word of God.
Amen.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Amen.
Well, we are going to continueour interview with Pastor Mark
Crabtree of Refuge Church inRobbinsville, New Jersey.
Check him out.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I called my dad up and I said Dad, I don't know
what to do.
This is what's happening.
He goes to me.
Mark, why don't you come tochurch with me tomorrow?
This was Saturday night.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
And I went Dad, it's always God with you, like God's
the answer to everything.
And I hung up on him.
So I go to sleep that night.
I can see him saying that too.
I can see him saying that.
That's funny man, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
He wasn't even fazed.
He was just like well, whydon't you join me at church
tomorrow?
Mark and I was.
That was the last thing I needto hear is to go to church to
honor and worship this God thatjust mocked me, that just
refused to let me have comfortand relief.
And so I wake up on Sundaymorning and I am dead set that I
am going to finish this job.
I am going to.
He's not going to stop me thistime, man.
(02:15):
If I could have laid down abigger gauntlet to him, I would
have Right, Right, and so Iliterally um, I left my
apartment to go to Wawa.
I'm in Philly and I left to goto Wawa, which was right down
the street.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Wawa is everywhere in Philly.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Oh yeah, right, every corner, everywhere, but North
Carolina, right, hey they're,they're coming, they're coming
down here.
North Carolina.
That's right, they're on theirway, so, um, we should just open
them as I, as I drive downthere, but anyway I drive.
There's a traffic light betweenmy apartment and Wawa right,
and so I'm sitting at thattraffic light right, and I'm
sitting here and I'm thinking inmy head and I'm even probably
(02:51):
saying out loud you're not goingto stop me this time, I'm
getting this done.
Who are you to stop me?
I'll show you right.
And like a ton of bricks, thespirit falls down on me, breaks
the spirit falls down on me andI start weeping.
Yeah, his presence, weepingunder the weight of the presence
of the holy spirit.
Not a weight of shame and guilt, right, but the same weight
(03:17):
that crushed the atheism in leestrobel was crushing the guilt
and the shame that I was feeling.
It was it, it was the weight ofrelief that he was bringing on
me.
And so I'm going to Wawa to geta cup of coffee, because I was
going to go home to my apartmentand write goodbye letters,
right?
So I'm at this light and I'mweeping.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Now, and the next thing I know I'm making a U-turn
to go back to my apartment, Iget changed.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
I grabbed a Bible.
I don't even know where theBible came from and I take my
story behind to church.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Amen.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
And I take it to the church that my dad is here in
Hamilton and I'm going to tellyou Teddy I didn't even know how
to get there.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I was in Philly.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I didn't even know how to get to his church in
Hamilton.
I'm saying, you know, I justdidn't know the way I would have
had to put in a GPS, but I wasweeping so bad that I couldn't
see squinting my eyes trying tosee through the water of the
tears.
I couldn't even tell you how Igot down Route 95 and into New
Jersey and across the bridge.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I couldn't even tell you, I couldn't even tell you.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I remember pulling in to the parking lot of the
church and at the marquee signof the church, the sermon that's
being preached that day isrebuilding your life, wow I like
that and I sat in the secondrow of edinburgh road chapel at
edinburgh road in hamilton and Iweeped for two hours as the
worship went on as Pastor DougMindak gave his sermon and I
(04:45):
weeped under the reality of therisen Christ.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, man.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
The encounter that I had with him, that, even as I
cursed him and even as I blamedhim, he said Mark, I love you,
mark, I went to the cross foryou and I would do it again, 10
times over, if it meant having arelationship with you.
(05:11):
It had nothing to do with medesiring to have a relationship
with him.
It had everything to do withhis desire to have a
relationship with me.
And that is the reality of anencounter with the risen Christ,
and that is the reality of anencounter with the risen Christ.
Yeah, right, and from that verypoint forward, my life was
radically changed.
I never touched drugs againthat day, you know, my life
(05:35):
changed in ways that I didn'teven realize at the time.
At that point, I had hoped Icould get through the next
minute and now, coming up on 12years, later.
I think back to that moment and,um, I have a beautiful wife and
I have a daughter who I neverthought I'd have another
(05:57):
opportunity to be a parent again.
Um, you know, he took this kid,this bitter, depressed, mixed
up kid, and placed him on solidground and gave him a hope and a
future.
You know, jeremiah 29, 11 is mylife verse and although it
doesn't apply, it applied to theIsraelites.
Then, and I don't take it outof context.
I do believe we have a God thatnever changes and I believe we
(06:20):
serve a God who is the sameyesterday, today and tomorrow,
and so the same promises and thesame character and the same
love that he gave the Israeliteswhen he told them I have a plan
for you, not a plan to causeyou harm or do you evil, but a
plan to give you hope and afuture and to prosper you.
You know, that doesn't meanwe're going to be sunshine and
rainbows and all of us are goingto end up rich like Elon Musk,
(06:41):
right, but it means that we willbe spiritually prosperous and
filled with, with the reality ofhim and, and because he's
timeless, I think we can stillhold on to those same promises
that he promised that theIsraelites through through
Jeremiah, and um, so, yeah, he,he sent me on solid rock and and
so I became a fireman afterthat.
And, um, I met my wife at thatchurch and I think I told you
(07:04):
the crazy part, you know.
You tell you want to make Godlaugh, tell him your plans.
And you know I had said to himLord, I want a Christian wife, I
want a Christian girlfriend, Iwant a Christian relationship,
but listen, I'm not gonna findher at church.
Like what a weird place to datechurch.
Right, yeah, that was august11th 23rd august 12th 2013.
(07:28):
I said that to him after I gotmy faculty straight and um on
the end of september 2013.
I look up on the stage of theworship team as we're praising
and worshiping and there is jplaying the keyboard for the
worship team and I went oh who'sthat?
And in 2016, her and I weremarried.
(07:51):
And but yeah, so the funny parton Jennifer is that, although
she walked with the Lord for herlife and stayed faithful, she
had told the Lord you know, Iwant a Christian man and I don't
ever want to be a pastor's wife.
And so there she is a pastor'swife, and a good one at that.
But that is my journey.
Condensed version.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Amen.
Telling the Lord your plans isalways humorous, I think, from
his perspective, Like you know,and I hope One day he shows us
the DVD of how we told him ourplans.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
In spite of that he still made a lot of the stuff
work out.
You brought up an interestingpoint how the Scriptures apply
and the promises of God, becausehe doesn't change, he doesn't
change.
And Paul in 2 Corinthians,chapter 1, he says as many as
may be the promises of God inhim, they are yes, wherefore
(08:53):
also by him is our amen to theglory of God.
Basically, paul's talking aboutthe promises of God.
Because the enemy hit me with alie early on, long, long time
ago, hit me with a prettyeffective lie.
He said you know when God saysI never leave you or forsake you
.
He was talking to Joshua.
He wasn't talking to you, teddy, he wasn't.
You know.
He wasn't talking to you.
(09:13):
The scriptures don't apply toyou.
He was talking to other people.
That's other people's mailyou're reading, teddy.
And it was such an effective lie.
It really caused a sense ofdepression to me because I
bought it and conveniently, theenemy did not bring up 2
Corinthians 1, verse 20, wherePaul is saying the promises of
(09:44):
God are yes and amen to those inChrist.
If you're in Christ, thepromises they do apply to you.
To give you a hope in know, togive you a hope in Jeremiah to
give you a hope in a future.
I know the plans I have for you.
That applies If you're inChrist.
That is yes and amen.
That applies to you, and so theenemy is pretty tricky like
that, and so I just wanted to.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
If he's going, to do it to Jesus in the desert, who
are we.
Right?
I mean he says to Jesus rightin the desert yeah, who are we
right?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I mean he says to jesus right in the desert.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
He says oh well, jesus it's written yeah, they
know that the angels will saveyou, right, but but how does
jesus combat him with the word?
He turns and says it is writtenyeah right, we it's.
It's so important for us toknow the promises that are in
scripture and and um how they'reapplied.
It really, really, truly is,and and one that I always try to
remind myself is you know, notonly are we brought and grafted
(10:32):
in to the family of Christ,right, Not only are we adopted
and grafted in as we are his ownchildren.
but scripture tells us that weare co-heirs with Christ,
Co-heir with Christ.
So everything that Christ isentitled to as an heir of the
(10:52):
father.
we are entitled the same way asco-heirs.
And in Jewish culture at thattime you could have one son who
was the oldest son, who was theheir, but every child got
something.
It was less and less as youwent down the line, but
everybody got something.
But Jesus says, hey, I didn'tgo to the cross for you to get
something, I went to the crossfor you to have everything.
(11:15):
And like wow, wow.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
That's an amazing concept.
It's an amazing concept andwhen you think about it it's
like wow.
That makes it just that muchmore impactful to us and our
walk.
Especially if you're bummed outright now or depressed in any
kind of way, recalibrate it withthe Word man.
We are co-heirs with Christ,and that doesn't mean we don't
(11:41):
share in sufferings, but we alsoshare in His glory.
That's, that's right.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
You know that's right .
If, the, if, the transformativepower is through the cross,
then let me be crucified, right?
Yeah, that's a hard statementfor us to live up to, but but
you know, if, the, if, if, the,if, the, if the cross brings
resurrection and new life is it?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
not worth it?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Yeah, yeah, god thought it was worth it.
Jesus knew it was worth it rightyou know, something I I remind
my young adults about andanybody that's listening I want
them to be reminded too is thatwe often say that jesus came
down, um, and part of it wasn'tjust salvation right, I mean,
that was the gift, that's thewow you.
But he also came to relate toour experience.
(12:28):
You know, the word know that weuse in the Greek is gnosko, and
gnosko is not to intellectuallyknow something, but it's to
know it through experience.
And so Christ doesn't just knowus because he knows who we are
and he formed us in the womb andhe created through the words,
but he knows what it's like tobe us yes, and so when I remind
(12:51):
my young adults and I think it'svery important in today's
culture is it doesn't just meanbecause he was ridiculed and
rejected and hurt in emotion,but as we were going through
that that least roble book, I'mreminded I was reminded through
um of the apologetic aspect ofhematidrosis and that was the
condition that Jesus wentthrough in the garden, where he
(13:12):
sweat blood, right tears ofblood.
Hematidrosis is not a physical,I mean, it's the physical
manifestation of a mentalcondition.
You only encounter that throughextreme psychological distress.
So, even if you think well, itnever tells us in the Bible that
Jesus had mental health issues,that Jesus went through
(13:33):
psychological trauma.
Yes, it does.
It tells us that because heexperienced hematidrosis in the
garden, he absolutelyexperienced psychological trauma
as a man, right, he, he, he hadanxiety because he knew what he
was about to encounter and heeven said, father, if this cup
(13:55):
can pass from me please, ifthere's another way, but it's
the flip, it's the end of thatsaid, but if it's your will,
right, your will be done.
Yeah, and so you know, I try toremind he said his soul was
overwhelmed.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
That's right with sorrow to the point, to the
point of death.
Yeah, and that was in that samegarden passage there.
Yeah, he's uh overwhelmed.
I mean, we kind of read overthat quickly, but that's yeah he
was literally overwhelmed withand he, from his humanity, he
was like listen, you can doanything.
(14:33):
Let's uh take this cup from me,right and yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
And yet he had the power at any time to call
legions of angels to save him ohyou haven't seen you haven't
seen the peat play yet, have you?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
No, I'm hoping that when you'll bring that to us in
Graceway.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
I know Katie's been contacting Pastor Don.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
That's a real heavy scene man.
That section is, I believe it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
I relate to Peter.
I think a lot of us do, but myexperience, I feel like I have
Peter.
I relate to him, man, even tothe points where the Lord
reprimands him.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, thank God for Peter, because I tell you, man,
you know he has foot and mouthsyndrome, but don't we all.
And so if the Lord can use him,hey, there's hope for me, even
Peter's transformation.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
And so if the Lord can use him, hey, there's hope
for me, that's right.
And the Lord didn't cast himaway, even Peter's
transformation, that's right.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, you know, the Lord didn't cast him away and
even restored him.
Do you love me more than these?
Hey, I got a question, though,sure, in your testimony there
you said you know you wereheaded for hell.
You said you know you were, youknow you were, you were headed
for hell, and that's.
That's a fascinating statement,because I remember, before the
Lord really turned the lightswitch on in my life and brought
(15:54):
me back to a right walk withhim, I figured, man, I had
screwed up enough, I had messedup, like my, I had messed up and
there wasn't really any kind ofchance for me.
I'm done, you know I'm'm done,I'm going to hell.
Man, I messed up.
What would you say to someonethat is maybe even thinking
(16:16):
along those lines like, yeah,it's good for them, they have
redemption, but there's no wayGod will accept me because I
purchased my ticket to hell,because I did X, y, z?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I would say yes, that's exactly where God needs
you to be.
When we think we have itfigured out, when we think I've
got one more trick up my sleeve,we're ultimately circumventing
God, right.
But when we're at a point wherewe say I've got nothing left,
it's over, it's done, that'swhen the Lord goes yes, yes,
(16:49):
that's where I need you.
Now let me do the work.
And so what I would say to themis never give up one more day.
And what I would say is even ifyou're questioning and you're
not sure you know, is this Godreal?
Ask him.
Ask him to show you the realityof the risen Christ, and he
will do it.
He may not reach in and justmake everything sunshine and
(17:11):
rainbows, but he will show youthe reality of who he is.
He will show you the reality ofwho he is.
And there's redemption.
There's, there's always roomfor redemption, amen.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
There's always.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
There's always room for redemption.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Amen, yeah, His, his sacrifice basically says that,
states that and makes you knowhe he paid way too high a price
for you to know him.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Put it this way, he is heavily invested in us, him,
and so and know, have him on ourside.
Is that wants you to fail?
If anything, that's expressiveof somebody who is above and
(18:03):
beyond on your side that's rightwanting you to succeed, and so.
But the enemy is so, so slick atat amplifying our own stupidity
, helping us.
You know, because I don't wantto blame the enemy for
everything, it starts with ourfallen self, and then he's
usually their fan in the flames.
(18:24):
But you know our own stupidityof you, know God's against me.
God must hate me, god must beangry with me, or God will never
accept me.
And so I just, I agree withwhat you're saying, man.
That place is the startingplace of like.
Okay, yeah, and you know whatthe truth is.
God will not accept you.
(18:44):
You're not good enough, no oneis good enough, not one of us is
good enough, and we're notacceptable, apart from Christ,
apart from faith in Christ.
But when you put your faith inChrist now, you become a co-heir
, like you said, co-heir,co-heir, and we stand in him
because Christ is acceptable.
(19:05):
See, that's the thing, christ.
His sacrifice was accepted, heis accepted, and so, by faith
standing in him, we stand in arighteousness that's.
That is not our righteousness,because our righteousness means
nothing.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
That's right.
You know I that that deceptionof the enemy man.
Let me tell you if you thinkyou're strong enough to
withstand his deception you'regoing bigger and better men than
us have fallen.
Yeah, and he's been around toolong man.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
He's been around too long and he's had too long, too
much time to practice.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Yes, and he knows scripture far better than we do.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
He's in church every Sunday.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
He is, that's right.
Every Sunday he's in church,and you know what I think
sometimes, even as Christians,we forget that the enemy can sit
in church with us and he does.
But you know two things thatyou were saying.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Number one is and if I had, to say to somebody and
anybody that's listening, is youare not identified.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
You are not defined by your sin.
Your sin does not define you.
Christ defined you right, whatyou have done is what you have
done.
But you know not only you knowit's not that God simply just
says, ok, you did that sin andthis sin, and you know, I'm
going to pardon your sentence.
(20:24):
That's not what he does.
It says that he takes our sinand he removes it as far as the
east is from the west.
That is an infinite, infinitedistance.
He says that our sin is, if wenever committed it, right.
That's amazing.
He doesn't cover it up, hedoesn't um, take it and put it
in a box and put it on the shelfto never be open again.
(20:45):
He destroys it, he makes it sothat you never did it like that
reality is almost hard to wrapour minds around.
But that's the reality of therestoration that we're in.
It's not that he just heals itand you know you have the scar
to show.
No, the scar is gone because itnever happened.
You know it is such a we Idon't think any of us will ever
(21:10):
understand the true reality ofour salvation.
And so we are on the other sideof glory, standing in his
presence with an eternalperspective to say and in that
moment everything will makesense.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
It's all going to make sense.
I get it Everything makes sense.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yes, and, and it is.
Ah, man, it really is the truthof him and his, his, the
deception of the enemy.
You know it's so strong.
It's so powerful that I'llleave this with you and whoever
else is.
Do you know when Jesus wascrucified?
Right and we can debate, did he?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
go to hell?
Did he not go to hell?
Did he go to heaven?
We can have that debate.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
All we want clear in this fact is that he snatched
the keys of death right, that hewent down to Sheol and he
offered those there a chance toleave.
And there's some that didn't doit.
Would you imagine being?
(22:12):
You've left earth, you've died,you've gone down to Sheol and
you're sitting there in yoursuffering, in your guilt, in
your shame for eternity,suffering through this and all
of a sudden, one day, jesus, therisen Christ, the Messiah that
you heard was coming but younever knew about, and he's
sitting in your face going hey,I have the keys to your cell,
(22:33):
come with me and you go, I'mgood.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, like men love men, love darkness man.
That's the problem.
It's not that there's notenough light, it's that men love
darkness because their deedsare.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yeah, and all that person has to say is okay, open
my cell, I will follow you out.
That's how easy it is.
That's how easy it is.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
I tell you what we're yeah, we're.
We're up against the clock.
Now that's okay.
It's God's clock.
What is the uh?
When do you guys meet?
What's the address of yourchurch?
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Um, right now we're we're meeting at um, the first
Baptist church of Robbinsville,building at 22 main street in
Robbinsville.
Um, if, putting into GoogleMaps, I suggest you just look up
Refuge Church in Robbinsville,because there's 222 Main Street.
You'll get confused, butespecially if you're not
familiar with Robbinsville.
We meet on Saturday evenings at530.
We have a time of worship, wehave a time of prayer, we have a
time of message and then weshare a meal together, a
(23:32):
fellowship meal, after everyservice.
It's it's potluck.
Um, you know, don't feelobligated if it's your first
time to bring it, we would liketo serve you and, um, you know,
we want to fill your soul andfill your belly at the same time
.
So I'll tell you what, even ifyou're not sure about this God
thing.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
but you're hungry and you ain't got food in the
cupboard.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Come down and get fed and I promise you you will
encounter the risen Christ.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Amen, Amen, Well, we'll.
We'll put a link up in the shownotes of that Uh absolutely
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
You know, I just want to put it out there.
I am the.
You know I said I was the youngadult pastor.
I teach young adult Sundayschool there on Sundays and our
Sunday service there is, uh,eight, 30 and 10, 15.
And um, but that's on Sundaymornings at Graceway Bible
church in Hamilton and uh, wehope to have you guys out there,
I think at the end of next yearI think is what they're talking
Maybe September, october ofthis year, this year, september
October this year Possibly.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Amen, all right, all right, my brother.
Well, god bless you.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Hey brother, I love you guys.
I miss you guys.
Can't wait to see you guys nextweek.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Tell everybody you said hello, man, love you, bro.
Bro, I definitely will love you.
Amen, amen.
I hope you guys were blessed bylistening to to Mark's testimony
there and, you know, just beencouraged.
The Lord can save him, he cansave me, he can save you and not
(24:51):
just save like then radicallychange and live through you.
And this is just a foretaste ofwhat's coming.
I would implore you to giveyour life to him, give your life
over to him.
Give him the keys, man, givehim the keys.
Aren't you tired of driving?
Give him the keys, let himdrive, let him fill you with his
(25:14):
spirit and live life the wayit's supposed to be lived.
And this is still on this sideof glory.
So when we do get to glory,we're going to be like, yeah,
we've been walking with him along time, all right, that's all
I'm going to say about that.
Until we meet again next week,may the Lord bless you and keep
(25:38):
you.
The Lord make his face to shineupon you and be gracious to you
.
The Lord lift up hiscountenance upon you and give
you peace.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
This program was made possible by the Plays on Word
family of supporters.
To find out more, check out ourwebsite at
Lord you know.
Hey guys, you are now listeningto Plays on Word Radio.
It's the best.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
I never thought I'd have another opportunity to be a
parent again.
You know, he took this kid,this bitter, depressed, mixed up
kid, and placed him on solidground and gave him a hope and a
future.
You know, jeremiah 29, 11 is mylife verse and although it
doesn't apply, it applied to theIsraelites then, and I don't
take it out of context.
I do believe we have a God thatnever changes and I believe we
(00:31):
serve a God who is the sameyesterday, today and tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
You're the only name.
You're the only name.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
You're the only name.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Hello and welcome to Plays on Word Radio, where we
discuss, analyze, work and playon the Word of God.
Thank you for joining us onthis excursion.
Today let's join Pastor Teddy,also known as Fred David Kenny
Jr, the founder of Plays on WordTheater, as he does a deep dive
into the Word of God.
Amen.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Amen.
Well, we are going to continueour interview with Pastor Mark
Crabtree of Refuge Church inRobbinsville, New Jersey.
Check him out.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I called my dad up and I said Dad, I don't know
what to do.
This is what's happening.
He goes to me.
Mark, why don't you come tochurch with me tomorrow?
This was Saturday night.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
And I went Dad, it's always God with you, like God's
the answer to everything.
And I hung up on him.
So I go to sleep that night.
I can see him saying that too.
I can see him saying that.
That's funny man, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
He wasn't even fazed.
He was just like well, whydon't you join me at church
tomorrow?
Mark and I was.
That was the last thing I needto hear is to go to church to
honor and worship this God thatjust mocked me, that just
refused to let me have comfortand relief.
And so I wake up on Sundaymorning and I am dead set that I
am going to finish this job.
I am going to.
He's not going to stop me thistime, man.
(02:15):
If I could have laid down abigger gauntlet to him, I would
have Right, Right, and so Iliterally um, I left my
apartment to go to Wawa.
I'm in Philly and I left to goto Wawa, which was right down
the street.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Wawa is everywhere in Philly.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Oh yeah, right, every corner, everywhere, but North
Carolina, right, hey they're,they're coming, they're coming
down here.
North Carolina.
That's right, they're on theirway, so, um, we should just open
them as I, as I drive downthere, but anyway I drive.
There's a traffic light betweenmy apartment and Wawa right,
and so I'm sitting at thattraffic light right, and I'm
sitting here and I'm thinking inmy head and I'm even probably
(02:51):
saying out loud you're not goingto stop me this time, I'm
getting this done.
Who are you to stop me?
I'll show you right.
And like a ton of bricks, thespirit falls down on me, breaks
the spirit falls down on me andI start weeping.
Yeah, his presence, weepingunder the weight of the presence
of the holy spirit.
Not a weight of shame and guilt, right, but the same weight
(03:17):
that crushed the atheism in leestrobel was crushing the guilt
and the shame that I was feeling.
It was it, it was the weight ofrelief that he was bringing on
me.
And so I'm going to Wawa to geta cup of coffee, because I was
going to go home to my apartmentand write goodbye letters,
right?
So I'm at this light and I'mweeping.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Now, and the next thing I know I'm making a U-turn
to go back to my apartment, Iget changed.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
I grabbed a Bible.
I don't even know where theBible came from and I take my
story behind to church.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Amen.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
And I take it to the church that my dad is here in
Hamilton and I'm going to tellyou Teddy I didn't even know how
to get there.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I was in Philly.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I didn't even know how to get to his church in
Hamilton.
I'm saying, you know, I justdidn't know the way I would have
had to put in a GPS, but I wasweeping so bad that I couldn't
see squinting my eyes trying tosee through the water of the
tears.
I couldn't even tell you how Igot down Route 95 and into New
Jersey and across the bridge.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I couldn't even tell you, I couldn't even tell you.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I remember pulling in to the parking lot of the
church and at the marquee signof the church, the sermon that's
being preached that day isrebuilding your life, wow I like
that and I sat in the secondrow of edinburgh road chapel at
edinburgh road in hamilton and Iweeped for two hours as the
worship went on as Pastor DougMindak gave his sermon and I
(04:45):
weeped under the reality of therisen Christ.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, man.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
The encounter that I had with him, that, even as I
cursed him and even as I blamedhim, he said Mark, I love you,
mark, I went to the cross foryou and I would do it again, 10
times over, if it meant having arelationship with you.
(05:11):
It had nothing to do with medesiring to have a relationship
with him.
It had everything to do withhis desire to have a
relationship with me.
And that is the reality of anencounter with the risen Christ,
and that is the reality of anencounter with the risen Christ.
Yeah, right, and from that verypoint forward, my life was
radically changed.
I never touched drugs againthat day, you know, my life
(05:35):
changed in ways that I didn'teven realize at the time.
At that point, I had hoped Icould get through the next
minute and now, coming up on 12years, later.
I think back to that moment and,um, I have a beautiful wife and
I have a daughter who I neverthought I'd have another
(05:57):
opportunity to be a parent again.
Um, you know, he took this kid,this bitter, depressed, mixed
up kid, and placed him on solidground and gave him a hope and a
future.
You know, jeremiah 29, 11 is mylife verse and although it
doesn't apply, it applied to theIsraelites.
Then, and I don't take it outof context.
I do believe we have a God thatnever changes and I believe we
(06:20):
serve a God who is the sameyesterday, today and tomorrow,
and so the same promises and thesame character and the same
love that he gave the Israeliteswhen he told them I have a plan
for you, not a plan to causeyou harm or do you evil, but a
plan to give you hope and afuture and to prosper you.
You know, that doesn't meanwe're going to be sunshine and
rainbows and all of us are goingto end up rich like Elon Musk,
(06:41):
right, but it means that we willbe spiritually prosperous and
filled with, with the reality ofhim and, and because he's
timeless, I think we can stillhold on to those same promises
that he promised that theIsraelites through through
Jeremiah, and um, so, yeah, he,he sent me on solid rock and and
so I became a fireman afterthat.
And, um, I met my wife at thatchurch and I think I told you
(07:04):
the crazy part, you know.
You tell you want to make Godlaugh, tell him your plans.
And you know I had said to himLord, I want a Christian wife, I
want a Christian girlfriend, Iwant a Christian relationship,
but listen, I'm not gonna findher at church.
Like what a weird place to datechurch.
Right, yeah, that was august11th 23rd august 12th 2013.
(07:28):
I said that to him after I gotmy faculty straight and um on
the end of september 2013.
I look up on the stage of theworship team as we're praising
and worshiping and there is jplaying the keyboard for the
worship team and I went oh who'sthat?
And in 2016, her and I weremarried.
(07:51):
And but yeah, so the funny parton Jennifer is that, although
she walked with the Lord for herlife and stayed faithful, she
had told the Lord you know, Iwant a Christian man and I don't
ever want to be a pastor's wife.
And so there she is a pastor'swife, and a good one at that.
But that is my journey.
Condensed version.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Amen.
Telling the Lord your plans isalways humorous, I think, from
his perspective, Like you know,and I hope One day he shows us
the DVD of how we told him ourplans.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
In spite of that he still made a lot of the stuff
work out.
You brought up an interestingpoint how the Scriptures apply
and the promises of God, becausehe doesn't change, he doesn't
change.
And Paul in 2 Corinthians,chapter 1, he says as many as
may be the promises of God inhim, they are yes, wherefore
(08:53):
also by him is our amen to theglory of God.
Basically, paul's talking aboutthe promises of God.
Because the enemy hit me with alie early on, long, long time
ago, hit me with a prettyeffective lie.
He said you know when God saysI never leave you or forsake you
.
He was talking to Joshua.
He wasn't talking to you, teddy, he wasn't.
You know.
He wasn't talking to you.
(09:13):
The scriptures don't apply toyou.
He was talking to other people.
That's other people's mailyou're reading, teddy.
And it was such an effective lie.
It really caused a sense ofdepression to me because I
bought it and conveniently, theenemy did not bring up 2
Corinthians 1, verse 20, wherePaul is saying the promises of
(09:44):
God are yes and amen to those inChrist.
If you're in Christ, thepromises they do apply to you.
To give you a hope in know, togive you a hope in Jeremiah to
give you a hope in a future.
I know the plans I have for you.
That applies If you're inChrist.
That is yes and amen.
That applies to you, and so theenemy is pretty tricky like
that, and so I just wanted to.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
If he's going, to do it to Jesus in the desert, who
are we.
Right?
I mean he says to Jesus rightin the desert yeah, who are we
right?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I mean he says to jesus right in the desert.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
He says oh well, jesus it's written yeah, they
know that the angels will saveyou, right, but but how does
jesus combat him with the word?
He turns and says it is writtenyeah right, we it's.
It's so important for us toknow the promises that are in
scripture and and um how they'reapplied.
It really, really, truly is,and and one that I always try to
remind myself is you know, notonly are we brought and grafted
(10:32):
in to the family of Christ,right, Not only are we adopted
and grafted in as we are his ownchildren.
but scripture tells us that weare co-heirs with Christ,
Co-heir with Christ.
So everything that Christ isentitled to as an heir of the
(10:52):
father.
we are entitled the same way asco-heirs.
And in Jewish culture at thattime you could have one son who
was the oldest son, who was theheir, but every child got
something.
It was less and less as youwent down the line, but
everybody got something.
But Jesus says, hey, I didn'tgo to the cross for you to get
something, I went to the crossfor you to have everything.
(11:15):
And like wow, wow.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
That's an amazing concept.
It's an amazing concept andwhen you think about it it's
like wow.
That makes it just that muchmore impactful to us and our
walk.
Especially if you're bummed outright now or depressed in any
kind of way, recalibrate it withthe Word man.
We are co-heirs with Christ,and that doesn't mean we don't
(11:41):
share in sufferings, but we alsoshare in His glory.
That's, that's right.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
You know that's right .
If, the, if, the transformativepower is through the cross,
then let me be crucified, right?
Yeah, that's a hard statementfor us to live up to, but but
you know, if, the, if, if, the,if, the, if the cross brings
resurrection and new life is it?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
not worth it?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Yeah, yeah, god thought it was worth it.
Jesus knew it was worth it rightyou know, something I I remind
my young adults about andanybody that's listening I want
them to be reminded too is thatwe often say that jesus came
down, um, and part of it wasn'tjust salvation right, I mean,
that was the gift, that's thewow you.
But he also came to relate toour experience.
(12:28):
You know, the word know that weuse in the Greek is gnosko, and
gnosko is not to intellectuallyknow something, but it's to
know it through experience.
And so Christ doesn't just knowus because he knows who we are
and he formed us in the womb andhe created through the words,
but he knows what it's like tobe us yes, and so when I remind
(12:51):
my young adults and I think it'svery important in today's
culture is it doesn't just meanbecause he was ridiculed and
rejected and hurt in emotion,but as we were going through
that that least roble book, I'mreminded I was reminded through
um of the apologetic aspect ofhematidrosis and that was the
condition that Jesus wentthrough in the garden, where he
(13:12):
sweat blood, right tears ofblood.
Hematidrosis is not a physical,I mean, it's the physical
manifestation of a mentalcondition.
You only encounter that throughextreme psychological distress.
So, even if you think well, itnever tells us in the Bible that
Jesus had mental health issues,that Jesus went through
(13:33):
psychological trauma.
Yes, it does.
It tells us that because heexperienced hematidrosis in the
garden, he absolutelyexperienced psychological trauma
as a man, right, he, he, he hadanxiety because he knew what he
was about to encounter and heeven said, father, if this cup
(13:55):
can pass from me please, ifthere's another way, but it's
the flip, it's the end of thatsaid, but if it's your will,
right, your will be done.
Yeah, and so you know, I try toremind he said his soul was
overwhelmed.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
That's right with sorrow to the point, to the
point of death.
Yeah, and that was in that samegarden passage there.
Yeah, he's uh overwhelmed.
I mean, we kind of read overthat quickly, but that's yeah he
was literally overwhelmed withand he, from his humanity, he
was like listen, you can doanything.
(14:33):
Let's uh take this cup from me,right and yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
And yet he had the power at any time to call
legions of angels to save him ohyou haven't seen you haven't
seen the peat play yet, have you?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
No, I'm hoping that when you'll bring that to us in
Graceway.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
I know Katie's been contacting Pastor Don.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
That's a real heavy scene man.
That section is, I believe it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
I relate to Peter.
I think a lot of us do, but myexperience, I feel like I have
Peter.
I relate to him, man, even tothe points where the Lord
reprimands him.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, thank God for Peter, because I tell you, man,
you know he has foot and mouthsyndrome, but don't we all.
And so if the Lord can use him,hey, there's hope for me, even
Peter's transformation.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
And so if the Lord can use him, hey, there's hope
for me, that's right.
And the Lord didn't cast himaway, even Peter's
transformation, that's right.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, you know, the Lord didn't cast him away and
even restored him.
Do you love me more than these?
Hey, I got a question, though,sure, in your testimony there
you said you know you wereheaded for hell.
You said you know you were, youknow you were, you were headed
for hell, and that's.
That's a fascinating statement,because I remember, before the
Lord really turned the lightswitch on in my life and brought
(15:54):
me back to a right walk withhim, I figured, man, I had
screwed up enough, I had messedup, like my, I had messed up and
there wasn't really any kind ofchance for me.
I'm done, you know I'm'm done,I'm going to hell.
Man, I messed up.
What would you say to someonethat is maybe even thinking
(16:16):
along those lines like, yeah,it's good for them, they have
redemption, but there's no wayGod will accept me because I
purchased my ticket to hell,because I did X, y, z?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I would say yes, that's exactly where God needs
you to be.
When we think we have itfigured out, when we think I've
got one more trick up my sleeve,we're ultimately circumventing
God, right.
But when we're at a point wherewe say I've got nothing left,
it's over, it's done, that'swhen the Lord goes yes, yes,
(16:49):
that's where I need you.
Now let me do the work.
And so what I would say to themis never give up one more day.
And what I would say is even ifyou're questioning and you're
not sure you know, is this Godreal?
Ask him.
Ask him to show you the realityof the risen Christ, and he
will do it.
He may not reach in and justmake everything sunshine and
(17:11):
rainbows, but he will show youthe reality of who he is.
He will show you the reality ofwho he is.
And there's redemption.
There's, there's always roomfor redemption, amen.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
There's always.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
There's always room for redemption.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Amen, yeah, His, his sacrifice basically says that,
states that and makes you knowhe he paid way too high a price
for you to know him.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Put it this way, he is heavily invested in us, him,
and so and know, have him on ourside.
Is that wants you to fail?
If anything, that's expressiveof somebody who is above and
(18:03):
beyond on your side that's rightwanting you to succeed, and so.
But the enemy is so, so slick atat amplifying our own stupidity
, helping us.
You know, because I don't wantto blame the enemy for
everything, it starts with ourfallen self, and then he's
usually their fan in the flames.
(18:24):
But you know our own stupidityof you, know God's against me.
God must hate me, god must beangry with me, or God will never
accept me.
And so I just, I agree withwhat you're saying, man.
That place is the startingplace of like.
Okay, yeah, and you know whatthe truth is.
God will not accept you.
(18:44):
You're not good enough, no oneis good enough, not one of us is
good enough, and we're notacceptable, apart from Christ,
apart from faith in Christ.
But when you put your faith inChrist now, you become a co-heir
, like you said, co-heir,co-heir, and we stand in him
because Christ is acceptable.
(19:05):
See, that's the thing, christ.
His sacrifice was accepted, heis accepted, and so, by faith
standing in him, we stand in arighteousness that's.
That is not our righteousness,because our righteousness means
nothing.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
That's right.
You know I that that deceptionof the enemy man.
Let me tell you if you thinkyou're strong enough to
withstand his deception you'regoing bigger and better men than
us have fallen.
Yeah, and he's been around toolong man.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
He's been around too long and he's had too long, too
much time to practice.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Yes, and he knows scripture far better than we do.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
He's in church every Sunday.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
He is, that's right.
Every Sunday he's in church,and you know what I think
sometimes, even as Christians,we forget that the enemy can sit
in church with us and he does.
But you know two things thatyou were saying.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Number one is and if I had, to say to somebody and
anybody that's listening, is youare not identified.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
You are not defined by your sin.
Your sin does not define you.
Christ defined you right, whatyou have done is what you have
done.
But you know not only you knowit's not that God simply just
says, ok, you did that sin andthis sin, and you know, I'm
going to pardon your sentence.
(20:24):
That's not what he does.
It says that he takes our sinand he removes it as far as the
east is from the west.
That is an infinite, infinitedistance.
He says that our sin is, if wenever committed it, right.
That's amazing.
He doesn't cover it up, hedoesn't um, take it and put it
in a box and put it on the shelfto never be open again.
(20:45):
He destroys it, he makes it sothat you never did it like that
reality is almost hard to wrapour minds around.
But that's the reality of therestoration that we're in.
It's not that he just heals itand you know you have the scar
to show.
No, the scar is gone because itnever happened.
You know it is such a we Idon't think any of us will ever
(21:10):
understand the true reality ofour salvation.
And so we are on the other sideof glory, standing in his
presence with an eternalperspective to say and in that
moment everything will makesense.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
It's all going to make sense.
I get it Everything makes sense.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yes, and, and it is.
Ah, man, it really is the truthof him and his, his, the
deception of the enemy.
You know it's so strong.
It's so powerful that I'llleave this with you and whoever
else is.
Do you know when Jesus wascrucified?
Right and we can debate, did he?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
go to hell?
Did he not go to hell?
Did he go to heaven?
We can have that debate.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
All we want clear in this fact is that he snatched
the keys of death right, that hewent down to Sheol and he
offered those there a chance toleave.
And there's some that didn't doit.
Would you imagine being?
(22:12):
You've left earth, you've died,you've gone down to Sheol and
you're sitting there in yoursuffering, in your guilt, in
your shame for eternity,suffering through this and all
of a sudden, one day, jesus, therisen Christ, the Messiah that
you heard was coming but younever knew about, and he's
sitting in your face going hey,I have the keys to your cell,
(22:33):
come with me and you go, I'mgood.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, like men love men, love darkness man.
That's the problem.
It's not that there's notenough light, it's that men love
darkness because their deedsare.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yeah, and all that person has to say is okay, open
my cell, I will follow you out.
That's how easy it is.
That's how easy it is.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
I tell you what we're yeah, we're.
We're up against the clock.
Now that's okay.
It's God's clock.
What is the uh?
When do you guys meet?
What's the address of yourchurch?
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Um, right now we're we're meeting at um, the first
Baptist church of Robbinsville,building at 22 main street in
Robbinsville.
Um, if, putting into GoogleMaps, I suggest you just look up
Refuge Church in Robbinsville,because there's 222 Main Street.
You'll get confused, butespecially if you're not
familiar with Robbinsville.
We meet on Saturday evenings at530.
We have a time of worship, wehave a time of prayer, we have a
time of message and then weshare a meal together, a
(23:32):
fellowship meal, after everyservice.
It's it's potluck.
Um, you know, don't feelobligated if it's your first
time to bring it, we would liketo serve you and, um, you know,
we want to fill your soul andfill your belly at the same time
.
So I'll tell you what, even ifyou're not sure about this God
thing.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
but you're hungry and you ain't got food in the
cupboard.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Come down and get fed and I promise you you will
encounter the risen Christ.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Amen, Amen, Well, we'll.
We'll put a link up in the shownotes of that Uh absolutely
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
You know, I just want to put it out there.
I am the.
You know I said I was the youngadult pastor.
I teach young adult Sundayschool there on Sundays and our
Sunday service there is, uh,eight, 30 and 10, 15.
And um, but that's on Sundaymornings at Graceway Bible
church in Hamilton and uh, wehope to have you guys out there,
I think at the end of next yearI think is what they're talking
Maybe September, october ofthis year, this year, september
October this year Possibly.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Amen, all right, all right, my brother.
Well, god bless you.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Hey brother, I love you guys.
I miss you guys.
Can't wait to see you guys nextweek.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Tell everybody you said hello, man, love you, bro.
Bro, I definitely will love you.
Amen, amen.
I hope you guys were blessed bylistening to to Mark's testimony
there and, you know, just beencouraged.
The Lord can save him, he cansave me, he can save you and not
(24:51):
just save like then radicallychange and live through you.
And this is just a foretaste ofwhat's coming.
I would implore you to giveyour life to him, give your life
over to him.
Give him the keys, man, givehim the keys.
Aren't you tired of driving?
Give him the keys, let himdrive, let him fill you with his
(25:14):
spirit and live life the wayit's supposed to be lived.
And this is still on this sideof glory.
So when we do get to glory,we're going to be like, yeah,
we've been walking with him along time, all right, that's all
I'm going to say about that.
Until we meet again next week,may the Lord bless you and keep
(25:38):
you.
The Lord make his face to shineupon you and be gracious to you
.
The Lord lift up hiscountenance upon you and give
you peace.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
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