February 14, 2025 • 28 mins
"Did you know that ministry leaders can get burnt out from ministry? Today, we explore how pastoral leaders can find balance, joy, and even thrive in their service to God."
Thriving not only indicates surviving, but also flourishing. We explore how pastoral leaders can find balance and joy in their vocations through emotional support, self-care practices, and community-building efforts led by the Thrive Leadership Foundation.
• The importance of creating safe spaces for ministry leaders
• Personal stories highlighting the struggles of pastors
• The alarming mental health crisis among church leaders
• Insights on self-care and its long-term benefits
• The introduction of Gentle Warriors for women in ministry
• Strategies for developing flourishing community relationships
• Overview of Thrive Leadership Foundation's mission and programs
PlayGrounds section:
Recorded after our 'PETE' performance during the 2025 Pastors & Ministry Leaders Conference at America's Keswick Christian Retreat & Conference Center
PlayMakers:
Scott Jackson, CEO & Co-Founder (husband)
Lynn Jackson, Co-Founder, Partnership Development (wife)
Thrive Leadership Foundation
Website: https://thrivelead.org/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ThriveLeadershipFoundation/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thrivelead/
Are you a full time ministry couple that needs to be refreshed?
PLEASE click here: https://thrivelead.org/attend-a-retreat/
Plays On Word website
Plays On Word YouTube
Plays On Word Facebook
Plays On Word Instagram
Email us: team@playsonword.org
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Lord you know.
Hey guys, you are now listeningto Plays on Word Radio.
It's the best.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
The different aspects of emotion that you experience
and that you show in front of us.
You draw us right into theemotions of the situation,
thinking about the reality ofeveryday life that they were
living with Jesus.
It wasn't just Bible story, itwas just real life walking with
Jesus.
These are real people, reallives, real responses to
different challenging, whetherit's the waves breaking over the
(00:29):
boat or the storm beingflattened out.
When he says he's still, youknow, it's just, you captured
that.
For us, you're the only name,you're the only name.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
You're the only name.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Hello and welcome to Plays on Word Radio, where we
discuss, analyze, work and playon the Word of God.
Thank you for joining us onthis excursion.
Today let's join Pastor Teddy,also known as Fred David Kenny
Jr, the founder of Plays on WordTheater, as he does a deep dive
into the Word of God.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Amen, amen.
Well, welcome to every one ofyou to Plays on Word Radio.
We are back, Amen, back in theswing of things.
We are Well.
Also, did you guys enjoy ourbrother Mark Crabtree?
I got a lot of good comments.
If you enjoyed it, why don'tyou be part of that group and
(01:46):
send me a comment, send me atext or email.
Today we have something specialfor you Someone or a couple
whom we've had on the programbefore, so they are friends of
the program and I'm pretty sureyou guys are going to be blessed
.
We had a chance to fellowshipwith them at the Pastors and
(02:09):
Ministry Leaders Conference atAmerica's Keswick at the end of
January, and it's turning intoan annual thing with us where we
get together with them andinterview them for the podcast
for you guys.
And of course, I'm talkingabout our dear brother Scott
(02:33):
Jackson and our dear sister LynnJackson, his wife and they are
the leaders of the ThriveLeadership Foundation leaders of
the Thrive LeadershipFoundation, and their website is
thriveleadorg, if you want tocheck it out, or check them out
on Facebook, thrive LeadershipFoundation.
(02:55):
They're on Instagram as well,and we are you know what.
Instead of me just talking,let's get right into this.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
You guys are really gifted at this stuff, so what do
you do when you don't have a?
Speaker 4 (03:08):
beard, now Child's lighter.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
You have no place coming up we try.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
We were told at a leadership retreat two years ago
I believe it was, it was inOctober, I think and they told
us to not overextend ourselvesand work too hard.
Speaker 5 (03:24):
We're good students.
We pay attention.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yes, implementation takes a minute sometimes, yes,
and I've actually incorporatedsome of the teaching at our
church and people are like, wow,you're so brilliant, so
brilliant.
I'm like I need to cite thesource.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I got this from Scott and Lynn, I heard some guy say
it.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
No, we just thrive we .
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I got this from Scott and Lynn no we just thrive.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
We thrive you just heard some guy say it.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
This message was brought to you by the Thrive
Foundation.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
And so no, but we take.
January and February off fromtouring so that we don't get
caught in snowstorms as well.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, yeah, but Genesis Joe starts September and
it runs to December and thenDecember we do Christmas Joe to
January and then we stop.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
So is this an exception?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
This is an exception yeah, so we didn't say no on
this one.
We wanted to do this, and so Iusually am clean shaven for
Genesis, joe.
Anyway, we are here with Scottand Lynn Jackson.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Not.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Valerie, that's a whole other thing we'll explain.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Now it needs an asterisk.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
And you guys.
We have not had many returninterviews, we just haven't
gotten around to it yet we areat 100 plus episodes.
Now we're past 100.
But you guys, thank you forbeing on the program again.
Grateful to be here.
What a blessing to have youguys out.
Time is short so we won't takeup all the time, but I'd love to
(05:01):
get, first of all, your take onPete.
You had not seen Pete, and nowyou've seen Pete Any?
Thoughts.
Do you have to say something?
Speaker 4 (05:10):
You are gifted.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Praise the Lord.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
So gifted.
And you, I'm telling you, youput your whole self out there
and that draws the audience'swhole self in.
Beautiful, that's a great wayto say it.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah, it's beautiful, yeah I love how you just you
know you take us into the storyand you incorporate us into the
story just by the way you youdraw us in.
Whether we're responding or not, it doesn't matter, it's it's.
You are drawing us right intothe story of Pete and that's
(05:48):
phenomenal.
I mean, it's just unbelievablehow you draw us right into the
story and you draw our emotionsout of us in the different
aspects of emotion that youexperience and that you show in
front of us, emotion that youexperience and that you show in
front of us.
You draw us right into theemotions of the situation where
it's actually like, thinkingabout the reality of everyday
(06:18):
life that they were living withJesus.
It wasn't just Bible story, itwas just real life Walking with
Jesus.
These are people, these arereal people, real lives, like
Real responses to differentchallenging whether it's the
waves breaking over the boat orthe storm being flattened out
when he says be still.
You know, it's just.
You captured that for uscompletely and I love that, love
(06:40):
that.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I had a pastor today?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
tell me he said I laughed, I laughed.
And then he said and I cried, Icried with you too.
And he looked both ways beforehe said it.
He said I was crying too, Icried with you and I was like
yeah, you know the woman who wasbleeding for 12 years.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
You know, those tears are real.
When I'm doing that, that'ssomeone is like how did you do
that?
Are you putting stuff in youreyes?
I'm like no, I became her.
After she recognized she washealed.
I felt it.
So that's the only time you'llever hear me say I identify as a
woman.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Because it's not that kind of show.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Anyway we'll edit that.
Anyway, I didn't mean to cutyou off.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I like how you tie the 12 and the 12 in yes amen,
how you make little ties withlittle things that so easily get
overlooked biblically that Idon't think are there
accidentally.
God deliberately puts thoselittle ties in there for us, but
a lot of times they'reincidental, so to speak, that
(07:46):
get missed over.
But you draw those out.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Just for our radio audience.
Jairus' daughter was 12 yearsold and she was very sick and he
came and fell at Jesus' kneesand the woman that was
overlooking this, who was notable to touch anybody who was
bleeding for—she had beenbleeding for the same amount of
time that Jairus's daughter wasalive.
So that's what he meant when hesaid 12 and 12, and then the
(08:10):
both fall.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
She fell at the knees , on her knees, at Jesus's feet,
also just like Jairus and Jesusended up saying.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Part that really got me was where the extra-biblical
part that some pastors taughtabout the prayer shawl you have
to be some rabbis.
Rabbis said it was a stonableoffense if you grab hold of a
Jewish man's prayer shawl andJesus' response to her after she
went and did.
In that culture they would havebeen like she's not his family,
(08:40):
she's not family and he saysdaughter.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
It's the only place in the scripture where he calls
someone daughter.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
That's so beautiful.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
And.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I paused on that.
So there is a little bit of ateaching thing going on too.
That's subliminal.
Like you said, little thingsthat you might just read past.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
But the way that you unfolded, that was so beautiful,
so beautiful.
When you said you know, Jesussaid daughter.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
I was like wow.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Just you connected those dots in a very tangible
manner.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
For me.
It's me, because I hear peoplego.
Oh.
So you guys anything else,stick out.
You laughed, I know you laughed.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
You laughed?
Yep, definitely laughed.
I just think for me it was justfeeling like I'm in the setting
just feeling like I'm in thestory there.
It just really impacted me in avery direct way.
I can't emphasize that enough.
(09:43):
How you draw us right into thestory with the way that you
you've been gifted to tell itand with the way you put in
those little things, even like Ican't put the phrase back
together.
But it just had to saysomething.
Yeah, you know keith's alwaysdoing that.
He had mouth syndrome, just hadto say something.
So you know, as you put that inthere, it was just like you
(10:05):
know that just keeps drawing usalong in the story.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, it was a beautiful thing for me to be
able to just minister to a bunchof ministers, a bunch of people
that are on the front lines.
That was a blessing.
Katie and I have talked aboutthat, how it's just special for
us to be able to, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Be some kind of blessing to the people that are
always expected to beministering to, and that is
something that you guys are allabout.
That's something that you guysdo.
Can you?
Just for those that might nothave heard the episode, we'll
put a link into it.
They've been on the programbefore and I've sent this to
(10:50):
pastors and I basically havesaid you need to go contact
these people.
If you want, I will contactthem for you.
It's always a challenge becausepastors always find an excuse
I'm doing the Lord's work, I'mbusy.
Can you tell us about what youguys do?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
We have the privilege of leading a ministry called
Thrive Leadership Foundationthat basically ministers to
those in ministry.
We shepherd the shepherds, wepastor the pastors.
Not because we are anythinggreat in and of ourselves.
It's just what God has led usto over our now going into our
40th year of ministry, beingmarried for 40 years, coming up
(11:30):
this summer and just excitedabout what God's doing and the
privilege that we get to speakinto the lives of pastors who
need a safe place to be able toshare the challenges, the
discouragements, the hurts, theups and the downs of ministry of
which there are a lot of thosebut they need a safe place and
we become a safe place, whetherit's over a cup of coffee or
(11:54):
over lunch or on a Zoom call orat a retreat that we take them
away to, just a place for themto get refreshed, get recharged
and to actually thrive inministry, not just survive.
Too many pastors and ministryleaders and couples are just
surviving in ministry.
They're not thriving inministry and our desire is that
(12:16):
they thrive in ministry.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Amen.
And for us, because we havebeen in ministry, for it'll be
40 years this August, which Ijust can't believe that I don't
feel old enough to say that, butapparently I am.
We know the terrain and we know, we're familiar with the rocks
that you know ministry leadersstub our toes on, where we
(12:44):
stumble and fall and bleed andstand back up and stumble and
fall and bleed and stand back up.
And I think that because we canidentify with that, people feel
safe with us.
I would say Because we've beenthere, we've done that.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Many people look at pastors and people in church
leadership and pastors' wivesand it's just assumed well,
they've got everything together.
There's not a need for them toreally be ministered to.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
You never think of that.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
You never think of the person that you look to as
your pillar as needing help andabsolutely heartbreaking.
This past year, I know of morethan one pastor that has taken
their own life.
I have no.
I think you were the firstperson I texted when I when I
(13:34):
got that information, I said Idon't know how to process this
man and and then on top of that,I have a very dear brother of
mine, close to mine.
It was a pastor and he had thishe stepped down and the primary
reason is because he made poordecisions, because he was burnt
out.
He was the you know there waswasn't one thing that just boom
(13:58):
happened.
It was a bunch of things thathad that happened that and I I'm
like man, I don't know, I hopeI he was one of the guys I sent
the thing you guys should.
You should check.
I think I did send the podcastwe did earlier, right, but right
, you know just that.
Have you guys?
(14:19):
You guys deal with that for meto see that I'm I have to
process that.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
I don't do, I don't see that every day, but you guys
, that's what your ministry is,that's so important we sit
across the table from pastorsand wives, uh, people who are in
leadership, and we know thatthey are people just like us.
They, we know that they'repeople just like the people
walking down the street and thatthey have struggles.
But we are still blown awaybecause we will have these
(14:47):
refresh conferences coming,where pastors and wives come
away with us and we have themfill out anonymous, just three
by five cards just to see wherethey're at emotionally, mentally
, physically and spiritually.
And time after time after time,we're seeing that many of them
have thought about suicide, haveconsidered suicide or fearful
(15:11):
that their spouse has, and it isin the high numbers.
It is in the high numbers andthese are our spiritual leaders
and we don't throw rocks at thembut we want to embrace them and
and be that safe place to justsay this is where I'm at and it
(15:33):
might sound scary, but it'sscary to me for them to be able
to share that.
It's still surprising, you know, to us, and yet it shouldn't be
, I guess.
Yeah it's.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
it's just.
It seems crazy when we hear it,but I think you know there's so
much I don't know if pressureis the right word, but so much
expectation I think is probablya better word upon people in
ministry.
There's so much comparison outthere these days.
(16:05):
You know, I don't believesocial media is evil, but I
think social media hascontributed to a lot of this.
I think the availability ofseeing what's happening in other
people's ministry and thecomparison that goes on
sometimes and for people inministry we get almost addicted
(16:28):
to ministry.
Versus pursuing ourrelationship with Jesus and
keeping close with Jesus, webecome addicted to success and
if we're not successful or ifwe're not as successful as
someone else that we see, thenwe feel like, oh, what am I
(16:48):
really doing?
failure failure, I'm a failure,I'm not really doing the Lord's
work.
The reality is, and it's asimple statement so often I
think we in ministry can get sofocused on doing work for Jesus
but not spending time with Jesus.
(17:09):
I think that's a majorchallenge in thriving in
ministry in ministry.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
No, I was just going to say that you know we endorse
you guys wholeheartedly because,as many know from the last
podcast, your last interview,that we have been blessed to
have gone through Refresh, andyou know I look and I am all for
anything preventative.
You know, and I just wassitting here thinking while
we're talking, you know we getcar insurance, we have roadside
insurance, you know, but that'swhat you guys do You're like
(17:42):
like spiritual insurance orsomething?
But no, but you come alongsidepeople so that it doesn't get
that far and it doesn't, youknow it doesn't get to the point
where where life alteringthings are happening to you.
You know the negative part ofit.
But also, since that that lastpodcast you implemented
something new for the women andI was so blessed to go through
(18:04):
that.
You want to talk about thatjust a little bit.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Yes, I'd like to say that our ministry is kind of
growing another little branchand we're calling it gentle
warriors, and that's for womenwho are in full-time ministry
next to their husbands, or womenwho are single women who are in
full-time ministry.
And it's the idea of a gentlewarrior.
(18:28):
How would you explain it, Katie?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
You went through it.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
It's.
You know there are a lot ofaspects of refresh, but it's
focused on the women in ministryand we're different.
Women and men are different thewomen in ministry and we're
different.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Women and men are different and we think and we
process differently and wellthey said that with the, the
addiction recovery ministry herehow they're writing different
curriculum for the women's,barbara's place versus the
colony of mercy, and how.
It's different curriculumbecause you're dealing with men
(19:01):
and women.
It's different.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
And you know, as a pastor's wife, I absolutely love
coming alongside my husband anddoing my part.
What I loved about this is thatthe focus was on on what I'm
doing as a woman.
I just, you know so many times,let's face it, women don't take
time for themselves.
We don't do that, and pastorshave problems with that too.
I just you know so many times,let's face it, women don't take
time for themselves.
We don't do that, and pastorshave problems with that too.
(19:23):
I have challenges with that too, but as a woman, we don't do
that.
And it was geared to how Ithink and how I process and it
was just done with so much loveand completely scripturally
based and it was exactly what Ineeded and I still go back to
some of those points and alsogentle words and also refresh,
like I said, to prevent gettingto that point where I'm burnt
(19:47):
out and this is no longersomething I want to do.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Katie, that's where I found myself in pastoral
ministry.
Is I burned out?
And coming back to the pointyou made a minute ago, teddy,
it's like your friend who justrecently resigned because he was
burned out.
It isn't one thing, it's abunch of little things that
aren't being taken care of.
You know, as Song of Solomonsays, it's the little foxes that
(20:16):
destroy the vineyard and it'sthe little things that we don't
take time in our own lives toaddress.
One of the things that struckme recently is many churches say
well, you know our focus, ourpurpose, you know it's to love
God and love others, which is,you know, founded right in the
(20:38):
greatest commandments.
But I say to them it's love theLord, your God, with all your
heart, soul, mind and strength,and love your neighbor.
And we stop.
There's two more words there, asyourself, if we don't take care
of ourselves and I'm nottalking about being
self-absorbed.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I feel guilty doing it.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cutyou off.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
No, no, no, no, no.
I'm not talking about beingself-absorbed.
If you don't take care ofself-care, soul care, jesus says
you know, come unto me and Iwill give you rest for your
souls.
Scripture says often where weneed to have soul care, we need
to take care of our souls.
It's just like when you get onan airline to fly somewhere and
(21:24):
the flight attendants get up andthey tell you all the safety
instructions and everythingahead of time.
And then they say you know, andwhen?
If we lose pressure in a cabin,this mask is going to drop down
.
And what do they say?
Put it on your favorite personfirst.
No, they say, put it onyourself so you can help others.
We cannot love others well ifwe're not taking care of
(21:47):
ourselves.
And so many people in ministrythey'll say, well, I'd rather
burn out than rust out.
And I heard someone say well,why do you want to do?
Either You're out either way.
You know, let's not burn out orrust out, but it's take care of
the little things so that wecan truly love and care for
(22:08):
those around us.
We will not be as effective inanything we do if we are not
taking care of ourselves.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
I think part of the challenge to what I love about
both programs is it's not just,like you said, taking time out
to take care of yourself, but alot of people don't know how you
know, because when we're inministry.
How many times has someone cometo you with a problem or issue
when it's not your own?
You have focus, you knowexactly.
You can direct them toscripture and you can.
(22:37):
You know you can show them theway.
But when it comes to our ownstuff in quotes, we don't know
how.
And you guys show us how, bothprograms you know, for couples
and for the women, and it's just.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
That brings up something interesting.
So I'm going to play thetypical guy whose wife says, hey
, we should probably go to thisthing the typical, not just
typical guy, the pastor guy thisthing the typical, not just
typical guy, the pastor guy Idon't need.
I don't need to go to anotherseminar and just give me a bunch
of a bullet list of things Ineed to stop doing or need to
not do.
Is that what I'm going to runinto if I come to the refresh?
(23:14):
Am I going to be get a bulletlist of just what?
What can I expect if I go?
I mean, I could probably answerthat, but I'm gonna let you
guys in.
I'm playing the advocate here.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
Well, the idea is not to come and fill a notebook
full of notes and to have everyminute filled.
The idea is to come and to stop, to slow down, to come as a
child of God, not as a pastorand a pastor's wife, and to
allow yourself to breathe alittle bit.
(23:45):
And we do have sessions, buthopefully they're short and
sweet and we give you things tothink about and to go and talk
to your spouse about, and thenyou have some downtime to get
refreshed and to get renewed.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
And I think to go along with that is it's a small
gathering, so it's not like it'san overwhelming huge group of
people.
It's six to eight couples butit's the idea that as you start
hearing other people's stories,you go like, oh, I'm not the
only one that struggles likethis.
I'm not the only one that feelsthis way, because so often I
(24:23):
think those in ministry feel soisolated because if they share
with their congregation or ifthey share with their leadership
team, they may lose their joband so Just for sharing the fact
that they're human and they'refeeling a certain way or they're
dealing with something, exactly, exactly, and so to have them
come to refresh and that's whywe call it refresh.
(24:45):
We want you to come and getrefreshed.
We don't want you to have anotebook full of notes that
you're not going to do anythingwith.
We want you to come and getrefreshed and get recharged, or
at least begin to learn how do,I do that.
Because no one teaches us that,for the most part, no one
teaches us how to continuallyget refreshed, and so Jesus
teaches us that, for the mostpart, no one teaches us how to
continually get refreshed, andso Jesus teaches us that he
(25:09):
continually took his disciplesaway.
Okay, we need to get away.
I need to get away.
He would say.
Well, that sounds self-absorbed.
No, that's called self-care.
And Jesus modeled self-care,even of himself.
In his humanity he modeled thatself-carecare.
He had to get alone with hisfather.
He had to get away from thecrowd to get in the boat.
Let's go to the other side.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
He knew the importance of getting away to be
able to recharge that was veryimpressive to me, what that
impressed on me when we went.
Now I'm going to speak assomebody, as an alumni, and it
was very impressive.
And do you normally see theguys come in and be a little
wound up or whatever, be alittle agitated?
(25:52):
And then I know for me, mypersonal experience I was like,
okay, I'm going to go, I'm goingto go because I'm going to
honor my wife, I'm going to tryto love her as Christ loves his
church.
She really wants to go.
So, okay, I'll go.
I I'm going to try to love heras Christ loves the church, and
she really wants to go.
So, okay, I'll go, I'll go.
And I went and I'm sittingthere and it took me maybe a few
hours, but then I was just likewait, I can relax.
And I don't know if it was youor Scott, one of you was like
(26:15):
you just need to relax.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I think I even asked you guys want me to do a play
for you, or?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
something and you're like no, no, no, you are not on.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Right, you are not on .
Speaker 1 (26:24):
I was like wait.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I actually.
I can turn the car off for aminute, I can turn the engine
off.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Let me try it.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
And it was because it was a safe place and I was able
to oh, wait a minute, wow, andsome of the things that were
reinforced, that you guys taughtus and that we spoke about.
It's great to be around otherpeople Like I think of the
relationships that we formedlifetime relationships with
people at your retreat.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
I think that it's funny that you said that,
because I was going to mentionit too, and I think that's
attributed to the fact that itis so intimate You're not in
front of 200 people, which youknow there's a place for that as
well but because it's sointimate, we're at a conference
right now at America's, keswick,for pastors and ministry
leaders and some of the brothersand sisters that we met at both
(27:17):
of your conferences.
We, like you said, like Tedsaid, we have lifelong
friendships with them and wepicked up right where we left
off.
And it's because we came to aplace together and we're all
vulnerable together and we'reable to take your core, the core
principles that you gave us,and implement them.
And I'm going to get teared up,it's just.
(27:39):
It's just.
It's a beautiful thing to seemy brothers and sisters again.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, amen to that.
You know we are not done here.
We're going to get into somemore stuff.
We have constraints, timeconstraints, on this radio
program.
We will next week, if the Lordtarries, we will be back with
Scott and Lynn Jackson of theThrive Leadership Foundation and
(28:06):
I know you guys will be blessedwith the continuation of this.
So until then, the Lord blessyou and keep you.
The Lord make his face to shineupon you and be gracious to you
.
The Lord lift up hiscountenance upon you and give
you peace.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
This program was made possible by the Plays on Word
family of supporters.
To find out more, check out ourwebsite at playsonwordorg.
Lord you know.
Hey guys, you are now listeningto Plays on Word Radio.
It's the best.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
The different aspects of emotion that you experience
and that you show in front of us.
You draw us right into theemotions of the situation,
thinking about the reality ofeveryday life that they were
living with Jesus.
It wasn't just Bible story, itwas just real life walking with
Jesus.
These are real people, reallives, real responses to
different challenging, whetherit's the waves breaking over the
(00:29):
boat or the storm beingflattened out.
When he says he's still, youknow, it's just, you captured
that.
For us, you're the only name,you're the only name.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
You're the only name.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Hello and welcome to Plays on Word Radio, where we
discuss, analyze, work and playon the Word of God.
Thank you for joining us onthis excursion.
Today let's join Pastor Teddy,also known as Fred David Kenny
Jr, the founder of Plays on WordTheater, as he does a deep dive
into the Word of God.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Amen, amen.
Well, welcome to every one ofyou to Plays on Word Radio.
We are back, Amen, back in theswing of things.
We are Well.
Also, did you guys enjoy ourbrother Mark Crabtree?
I got a lot of good comments.
If you enjoyed it, why don'tyou be part of that group and
(01:46):
send me a comment, send me atext or email.
Today we have something specialfor you Someone or a couple
whom we've had on the programbefore, so they are friends of
the program and I'm pretty sureyou guys are going to be blessed
.
We had a chance to fellowshipwith them at the Pastors and
(02:09):
Ministry Leaders Conference atAmerica's Keswick at the end of
January, and it's turning intoan annual thing with us where we
get together with them andinterview them for the podcast
for you guys.
And of course, I'm talkingabout our dear brother Scott
(02:33):
Jackson and our dear sister LynnJackson, his wife and they are
the leaders of the ThriveLeadership Foundation leaders of
the Thrive LeadershipFoundation, and their website is
thriveleadorg, if you want tocheck it out, or check them out
on Facebook, thrive LeadershipFoundation.
(02:55):
They're on Instagram as well,and we are you know what.
Instead of me just talking,let's get right into this.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
You guys are really gifted at this stuff, so what do
you do when you don't have a?
Speaker 4 (03:08):
beard, now Child's lighter.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
You have no place coming up we try.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
We were told at a leadership retreat two years ago
I believe it was, it was inOctober, I think and they told
us to not overextend ourselvesand work too hard.
Speaker 5 (03:24):
We're good students.
We pay attention.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yes, implementation takes a minute sometimes, yes,
and I've actually incorporatedsome of the teaching at our
church and people are like, wow,you're so brilliant, so
brilliant.
I'm like I need to cite thesource.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I got this from Scott and Lynn, I heard some guy say
it.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
No, we just thrive we .
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I got this from Scott and Lynn no we just thrive.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
We thrive you just heard some guy say it.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
This message was brought to you by the Thrive
Foundation.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
And so no, but we take.
January and February off fromtouring so that we don't get
caught in snowstorms as well.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, yeah, but Genesis Joe starts September and
it runs to December and thenDecember we do Christmas Joe to
January and then we stop.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
So is this an exception?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
This is an exception yeah, so we didn't say no on
this one.
We wanted to do this, and so Iusually am clean shaven for
Genesis, joe.
Anyway, we are here with Scottand Lynn Jackson.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Not.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Valerie, that's a whole other thing we'll explain.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Now it needs an asterisk.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
And you guys.
We have not had many returninterviews, we just haven't
gotten around to it yet we areat 100 plus episodes.
Now we're past 100.
But you guys, thank you forbeing on the program again.
Grateful to be here.
What a blessing to have youguys out.
Time is short so we won't takeup all the time, but I'd love to
(05:01):
get, first of all, your take onPete.
You had not seen Pete, and nowyou've seen Pete Any?
Thoughts.
Do you have to say something?
Speaker 4 (05:10):
You are gifted.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Praise the Lord.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
So gifted.
And you, I'm telling you, youput your whole self out there
and that draws the audience'swhole self in.
Beautiful, that's a great wayto say it.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah, it's beautiful, yeah I love how you just you
know you take us into the storyand you incorporate us into the
story just by the way you youdraw us in.
Whether we're responding or not, it doesn't matter, it's it's.
You are drawing us right intothe story of Pete and that's
(05:48):
phenomenal.
I mean, it's just unbelievablehow you draw us right into the
story and you draw our emotionsout of us in the different
aspects of emotion that youexperience and that you show in
front of us, emotion that youexperience and that you show in
front of us.
You draw us right into theemotions of the situation where
it's actually like, thinkingabout the reality of everyday
(06:18):
life that they were living withJesus.
It wasn't just Bible story, itwas just real life Walking with
Jesus.
These are people, these arereal people, real lives, like
Real responses to differentchallenging whether it's the
waves breaking over the boat orthe storm being flattened out
when he says be still.
You know, it's just.
You captured that for uscompletely and I love that, love
(06:40):
that.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I had a pastor today?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
tell me he said I laughed, I laughed.
And then he said and I cried, Icried with you too.
And he looked both ways beforehe said it.
He said I was crying too, Icried with you and I was like
yeah, you know the woman who wasbleeding for 12 years.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
You know, those tears are real.
When I'm doing that, that'ssomeone is like how did you do
that?
Are you putting stuff in youreyes?
I'm like no, I became her.
After she recognized she washealed.
I felt it.
So that's the only time you'llever hear me say I identify as a
woman.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Because it's not that kind of show.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Anyway we'll edit that.
Anyway, I didn't mean to cutyou off.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I like how you tie the 12 and the 12 in yes amen,
how you make little ties withlittle things that so easily get
overlooked biblically that Idon't think are there
accidentally.
God deliberately puts thoselittle ties in there for us, but
a lot of times they'reincidental, so to speak, that
(07:46):
get missed over.
But you draw those out.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Just for our radio audience.
Jairus' daughter was 12 yearsold and she was very sick and he
came and fell at Jesus' kneesand the woman that was
overlooking this, who was notable to touch anybody who was
bleeding for—she had beenbleeding for the same amount of
time that Jairus's daughter wasalive.
So that's what he meant when hesaid 12 and 12, and then the
(08:10):
both fall.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
She fell at the knees , on her knees, at Jesus's feet,
also just like Jairus and Jesusended up saying.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Part that really got me was where the extra-biblical
part that some pastors taughtabout the prayer shawl you have
to be some rabbis.
Rabbis said it was a stonableoffense if you grab hold of a
Jewish man's prayer shawl andJesus' response to her after she
went and did.
In that culture they would havebeen like she's not his family,
(08:40):
she's not family and he saysdaughter.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
It's the only place in the scripture where he calls
someone daughter.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
That's so beautiful.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
And.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I paused on that.
So there is a little bit of ateaching thing going on too.
That's subliminal.
Like you said, little thingsthat you might just read past.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
But the way that you unfolded, that was so beautiful,
so beautiful.
When you said you know, Jesussaid daughter.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
I was like wow.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Just you connected those dots in a very tangible
manner.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
For me.
It's me, because I hear peoplego.
Oh.
So you guys anything else,stick out.
You laughed, I know you laughed.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
You laughed?
Yep, definitely laughed.
I just think for me it was justfeeling like I'm in the setting
just feeling like I'm in thestory there.
It just really impacted me in avery direct way.
I can't emphasize that enough.
(09:43):
How you draw us right into thestory with the way that you
you've been gifted to tell itand with the way you put in
those little things, even like Ican't put the phrase back
together.
But it just had to saysomething.
Yeah, you know keith's alwaysdoing that.
He had mouth syndrome, just hadto say something.
So you know, as you put that inthere, it was just like you
(10:05):
know that just keeps drawing usalong in the story.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, it was a beautiful thing for me to be
able to just minister to a bunchof ministers, a bunch of people
that are on the front lines.
That was a blessing.
Katie and I have talked aboutthat, how it's just special for
us to be able to, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Be some kind of blessing to the people that are
always expected to beministering to, and that is
something that you guys are allabout.
That's something that you guysdo.
Can you?
Just for those that might nothave heard the episode, we'll
put a link into it.
They've been on the programbefore and I've sent this to
(10:50):
pastors and I basically havesaid you need to go contact
these people.
If you want, I will contactthem for you.
It's always a challenge becausepastors always find an excuse
I'm doing the Lord's work, I'mbusy.
Can you tell us about what youguys do?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
We have the privilege of leading a ministry called
Thrive Leadership Foundationthat basically ministers to
those in ministry.
We shepherd the shepherds, wepastor the pastors.
Not because we are anythinggreat in and of ourselves.
It's just what God has led usto over our now going into our
40th year of ministry, beingmarried for 40 years, coming up
(11:30):
this summer and just excitedabout what God's doing and the
privilege that we get to speakinto the lives of pastors who
need a safe place to be able toshare the challenges, the
discouragements, the hurts, theups and the downs of ministry of
which there are a lot of thosebut they need a safe place and
we become a safe place, whetherit's over a cup of coffee or
(11:54):
over lunch or on a Zoom call orat a retreat that we take them
away to, just a place for themto get refreshed, get recharged
and to actually thrive inministry, not just survive.
Too many pastors and ministryleaders and couples are just
surviving in ministry.
They're not thriving inministry and our desire is that
(12:16):
they thrive in ministry.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Amen.
And for us, because we havebeen in ministry, for it'll be
40 years this August, which Ijust can't believe that I don't
feel old enough to say that, butapparently I am.
We know the terrain and we know, we're familiar with the rocks
that you know ministry leadersstub our toes on, where we
(12:44):
stumble and fall and bleed andstand back up and stumble and
fall and bleed and stand back up.
And I think that because we canidentify with that, people feel
safe with us.
I would say Because we've beenthere, we've done that.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Many people look at pastors and people in church
leadership and pastors' wivesand it's just assumed well,
they've got everything together.
There's not a need for them toreally be ministered to.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
You never think of that.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
You never think of the person that you look to as
your pillar as needing help andabsolutely heartbreaking.
This past year, I know of morethan one pastor that has taken
their own life.
I have no.
I think you were the firstperson I texted when I when I
(13:34):
got that information, I said Idon't know how to process this
man and and then on top of that,I have a very dear brother of
mine, close to mine.
It was a pastor and he had thishe stepped down and the primary
reason is because he made poordecisions, because he was burnt
out.
He was the you know there waswasn't one thing that just boom
(13:58):
happened.
It was a bunch of things thathad that happened that and I I'm
like man, I don't know, I hopeI he was one of the guys I sent
the thing you guys should.
You should check.
I think I did send the podcastwe did earlier, right, but right
, you know just that.
Have you guys?
(14:19):
You guys deal with that for meto see that I'm I have to
process that.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
I don't do, I don't see that every day, but you guys
, that's what your ministry is,that's so important we sit
across the table from pastorsand wives, uh, people who are in
leadership, and we know thatthey are people just like us.
They, we know that they'repeople just like the people
walking down the street and thatthey have struggles.
But we are still blown awaybecause we will have these
(14:47):
refresh conferences coming,where pastors and wives come
away with us and we have themfill out anonymous, just three
by five cards just to see wherethey're at emotionally, mentally
, physically and spiritually.
And time after time after time,we're seeing that many of them
have thought about suicide, haveconsidered suicide or fearful
(15:11):
that their spouse has, and it isin the high numbers.
It is in the high numbers andthese are our spiritual leaders
and we don't throw rocks at thembut we want to embrace them and
and be that safe place to justsay this is where I'm at and it
(15:33):
might sound scary, but it'sscary to me for them to be able
to share that.
It's still surprising, you know, to us, and yet it shouldn't be
, I guess.
Yeah it's.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
it's just.
It seems crazy when we hear it,but I think you know there's so
much I don't know if pressureis the right word, but so much
expectation I think is probablya better word upon people in
ministry.
There's so much comparison outthere these days.
(16:05):
You know, I don't believesocial media is evil, but I
think social media hascontributed to a lot of this.
I think the availability ofseeing what's happening in other
people's ministry and thecomparison that goes on
sometimes and for people inministry we get almost addicted
(16:28):
to ministry.
Versus pursuing ourrelationship with Jesus and
keeping close with Jesus, webecome addicted to success and
if we're not successful or ifwe're not as successful as
someone else that we see, thenwe feel like, oh, what am I
(16:48):
really doing?
failure failure, I'm a failure,I'm not really doing the Lord's
work.
The reality is, and it's asimple statement so often I
think we in ministry can get sofocused on doing work for Jesus
but not spending time with Jesus.
(17:09):
I think that's a majorchallenge in thriving in
ministry in ministry.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
No, I was just going to say that you know we endorse
you guys wholeheartedly because,as many know from the last
podcast, your last interview,that we have been blessed to
have gone through Refresh, andyou know I look and I am all for
anything preventative.
You know, and I just wassitting here thinking while
we're talking, you know we getcar insurance, we have roadside
insurance, you know, but that'swhat you guys do You're like
(17:42):
like spiritual insurance orsomething?
But no, but you come alongsidepeople so that it doesn't get
that far and it doesn't, youknow it doesn't get to the point
where where life alteringthings are happening to you.
You know the negative part ofit.
But also, since that that lastpodcast you implemented
something new for the women andI was so blessed to go through
(18:04):
that.
You want to talk about thatjust a little bit.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Yes, I'd like to say that our ministry is kind of
growing another little branchand we're calling it gentle
warriors, and that's for womenwho are in full-time ministry
next to their husbands, or womenwho are single women who are in
full-time ministry.
And it's the idea of a gentlewarrior.
(18:28):
How would you explain it, Katie?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
You went through it.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
It's.
You know there are a lot ofaspects of refresh, but it's
focused on the women in ministryand we're different.
Women and men are different thewomen in ministry and we're
different.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Women and men are different and we think and we
process differently and wellthey said that with the, the
addiction recovery ministry herehow they're writing different
curriculum for the women's,barbara's place versus the
colony of mercy, and how.
It's different curriculumbecause you're dealing with men
(19:01):
and women.
It's different.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
And you know, as a pastor's wife, I absolutely love
coming alongside my husband anddoing my part.
What I loved about this is thatthe focus was on on what I'm
doing as a woman.
I just, you know so many times,let's face it, women don't take
time for themselves.
We don't do that, and pastorshave problems with that too.
I just you know so many times,let's face it, women don't take
time for themselves.
We don't do that, and pastorshave problems with that too.
(19:23):
I have challenges with that too, but as a woman, we don't do
that.
And it was geared to how Ithink and how I process and it
was just done with so much loveand completely scripturally
based and it was exactly what Ineeded and I still go back to
some of those points and alsogentle words and also refresh,
like I said, to prevent gettingto that point where I'm burnt
(19:47):
out and this is no longersomething I want to do.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Katie, that's where I found myself in pastoral
ministry.
Is I burned out?
And coming back to the pointyou made a minute ago, teddy,
it's like your friend who justrecently resigned because he was
burned out.
It isn't one thing, it's abunch of little things that
aren't being taken care of.
You know, as Song of Solomonsays, it's the little foxes that
(20:16):
destroy the vineyard and it'sthe little things that we don't
take time in our own lives toaddress.
One of the things that struckme recently is many churches say
well, you know our focus, ourpurpose, you know it's to love
God and love others, which is,you know, founded right in the
(20:38):
greatest commandments.
But I say to them it's love theLord, your God, with all your
heart, soul, mind and strength,and love your neighbor.
And we stop.
There's two more words there, asyourself, if we don't take care
of ourselves and I'm nottalking about being
self-absorbed.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I feel guilty doing it.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cutyou off.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
No, no, no, no, no.
I'm not talking about beingself-absorbed.
If you don't take care ofself-care, soul care, jesus says
you know, come unto me and Iwill give you rest for your
souls.
Scripture says often where weneed to have soul care, we need
to take care of our souls.
It's just like when you get onan airline to fly somewhere and
(21:24):
the flight attendants get up andthey tell you all the safety
instructions and everythingahead of time.
And then they say you know, andwhen?
If we lose pressure in a cabin,this mask is going to drop down
.
And what do they say?
Put it on your favorite personfirst.
No, they say, put it onyourself so you can help others.
We cannot love others well ifwe're not taking care of
(21:47):
ourselves.
And so many people in ministrythey'll say, well, I'd rather
burn out than rust out.
And I heard someone say well,why do you want to do?
Either You're out either way.
You know, let's not burn out orrust out, but it's take care of
the little things so that wecan truly love and care for
(22:08):
those around us.
We will not be as effective inanything we do if we are not
taking care of ourselves.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
I think part of the challenge to what I love about
both programs is it's not just,like you said, taking time out
to take care of yourself, but alot of people don't know how you
know, because when we're inministry.
How many times has someone cometo you with a problem or issue
when it's not your own?
You have focus, you knowexactly.
You can direct them toscripture and you can.
(22:37):
You know you can show them theway.
But when it comes to our ownstuff in quotes, we don't know
how.
And you guys show us how, bothprograms you know, for couples
and for the women, and it's just.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
That brings up something interesting.
So I'm going to play thetypical guy whose wife says, hey
, we should probably go to thisthing the typical, not just
typical guy, the pastor guy thisthing the typical, not just
typical guy, the pastor guy Idon't need.
I don't need to go to anotherseminar and just give me a bunch
of a bullet list of things Ineed to stop doing or need to
not do.
Is that what I'm going to runinto if I come to the refresh?
(23:14):
Am I going to be get a bulletlist of just what?
What can I expect if I go?
I mean, I could probably answerthat, but I'm gonna let you
guys in.
I'm playing the advocate here.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
Well, the idea is not to come and fill a notebook
full of notes and to have everyminute filled.
The idea is to come and to stop, to slow down, to come as a
child of God, not as a pastorand a pastor's wife, and to
allow yourself to breathe alittle bit.
(23:45):
And we do have sessions, buthopefully they're short and
sweet and we give you things tothink about and to go and talk
to your spouse about, and thenyou have some downtime to get
refreshed and to get renewed.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
And I think to go along with that is it's a small
gathering, so it's not like it'san overwhelming huge group of
people.
It's six to eight couples butit's the idea that as you start
hearing other people's stories,you go like, oh, I'm not the
only one that struggles likethis.
I'm not the only one that feelsthis way, because so often I
(24:23):
think those in ministry feel soisolated because if they share
with their congregation or ifthey share with their leadership
team, they may lose their joband so Just for sharing the fact
that they're human and they'refeeling a certain way or they're
dealing with something, exactly, exactly, and so to have them
come to refresh and that's whywe call it refresh.
(24:45):
We want you to come and getrefreshed.
We don't want you to have anotebook full of notes that
you're not going to do anythingwith.
We want you to come and getrefreshed and get recharged, or
at least begin to learn how do,I do that.
Because no one teaches us that,for the most part, no one
teaches us how to continuallyget refreshed, and so Jesus
teaches us that, for the mostpart, no one teaches us how to
continually get refreshed, andso Jesus teaches us that he
(25:09):
continually took his disciplesaway.
Okay, we need to get away.
I need to get away.
He would say.
Well, that sounds self-absorbed.
No, that's called self-care.
And Jesus modeled self-care,even of himself.
In his humanity he modeled thatself-carecare.
He had to get alone with hisfather.
He had to get away from thecrowd to get in the boat.
Let's go to the other side.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
He knew the importance of getting away to be
able to recharge that was veryimpressive to me, what that
impressed on me when we went.
Now I'm going to speak assomebody, as an alumni, and it
was very impressive.
And do you normally see theguys come in and be a little
wound up or whatever, be alittle agitated?
(25:52):
And then I know for me, mypersonal experience I was like,
okay, I'm going to go, I'm goingto go because I'm going to
honor my wife, I'm going to tryto love her as Christ loves his
church.
She really wants to go.
So, okay, I'll go.
I I'm going to try to love heras Christ loves the church, and
she really wants to go.
So, okay, I'll go, I'll go.
And I went and I'm sittingthere and it took me maybe a few
hours, but then I was just likewait, I can relax.
And I don't know if it was youor Scott, one of you was like
(26:15):
you just need to relax.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I think I even asked you guys want me to do a play
for you, or?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
something and you're like no, no, no, you are not on.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Right, you are not on .
Speaker 1 (26:24):
I was like wait.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I actually.
I can turn the car off for aminute, I can turn the engine
off.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Let me try it.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
And it was because it was a safe place and I was able
to oh, wait a minute, wow, andsome of the things that were
reinforced, that you guys taughtus and that we spoke about.
It's great to be around otherpeople Like I think of the
relationships that we formedlifetime relationships with
people at your retreat.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
I think that it's funny that you said that,
because I was going to mentionit too, and I think that's
attributed to the fact that itis so intimate You're not in
front of 200 people, which youknow there's a place for that as
well but because it's sointimate, we're at a conference
right now at America's, keswick,for pastors and ministry
leaders and some of the brothersand sisters that we met at both
(27:17):
of your conferences.
We, like you said, like Tedsaid, we have lifelong
friendships with them and wepicked up right where we left
off.
And it's because we came to aplace together and we're all
vulnerable together and we'reable to take your core, the core
principles that you gave us,and implement them.
And I'm going to get teared up,it's just.
(27:39):
It's just.
It's a beautiful thing to seemy brothers and sisters again.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, amen to that.
You know we are not done here.
We're going to get into somemore stuff.
We have constraints, timeconstraints, on this radio
program.
We will next week, if the Lordtarries, we will be back with
Scott and Lynn Jackson of theThrive Leadership Foundation and
(28:06):
I know you guys will be blessedwith the continuation of this.
So until then, the Lord blessyou and keep you.
The Lord make his face to shineupon you and be gracious to you
.
The Lord lift up hiscountenance upon you and give
you peace.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
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To find out more, check out ourwebsite at playsonwordorg.
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