October 31, 2025 • 32 mins
"What happens when a pastor bets on a story—and a storyteller—he’s never seen? That simple 'yes' shaped a rich conversation about risk, trust, and how creative ministry can reignite a love for Scripture."
We trace Pastor Don Schwing’s journey from ritual to relationship, the power of storytelling to wake up a church, and the surprising ways God guides a congregation’s future. Humor, honesty, and a 7‑Eleven-sized miracle reveal how surrender fuels real ministry.
• why embodied storytelling makes Scripture feel urgent again
• how a single sentence shattered self‑justification
• moving from willpower to surrender and abiding
• using humor to reset attention without losing reverence
• resisting broad‑brush labels to see people first
• leadership under pressure and the habit of peace
• Graceway’s staffing model and shared mission
• the vision for an outreach center next door
• practical providence in property, timing, and price
To find out more, check out our website at playsonword.org
Pastor Don Schwing, Executive Pastor - GraceWay Bible Church
Plays On Word Newsletter Sign Up: https://playsonword.dm.networkforgood.com/forms/newsletter-sign-up
Does any of today's podcast resonate with you?Let us know here: https://playsonword.dm.networkforgood.com/forms/podcast-reviews
To Support Plays On Word Radio & Plays On Word Theater, please visit: https://playsonword.networkforgood
The Plays on Word Theater team is always setting up new performance dates! If you want us to visit your church/venue/community, please reach out with your inquiries here: https://playsonword.dm.networkforgood.com/forms/event-submission-form
Plays On Word website
Plays On Word YouTube
Plays On Word Facebook
Plays On Word Instagram
Email us: team@playsonword.org
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Lord, you know you're now listening to play is
the best.
SPEAKER_02 (00:07):
I was involved with stuff I shouldn't be involved
in, and I was convincing myselfit was okay.
And I said, listen, when I go tomeet God, I'm gonna tell him
it's okay because I don't knowif it was the same sermon or it
was shortly thereafter, Joe waslike, Listen, no matter how hard
you try, you will never be ableto convince God that you are
right and he is wrong.
And that was the eye-opener thatI needed.
(00:27):
And I'm telling you, I asked myoffice, I found the church that
was open, and I just went and Ikneeled and I prayed for the
Lord to forgive me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
Hello, and welcome to Plays on Word Radio, where we
discuss, analyze work, and playon the word of God.
Thank you for joining us on the6 Thursday today.
Let's join Pastor Teddy, alsoknown as Fred David Kenny Jr.,
the founder of Plays on WordTheater, as he does a deep dive
into the Word of God.
SPEAKER_03 (01:21):
Amen.
Amen.
Well, welcome to all of youlistening to Plays on Word
Radio.
My name is Fred David Kenny Jr.
Many of you know me, some of youmight not, but it's all good.
Thank you very much, Katie Kennyand Josh Taylor, for that
excellent introduction.
We are back at Southern Commandfor Plays on Word.
(01:45):
And uh yeah, we are we got a lotof stuff, a lot of stuff
happening.
We're prepping for our ChristmasJoe tour coming up.
Uh there's a lot of things inthe works.
Please pray for my wife.
She's working hard.
And um I'm hardly working.
No, I'm working.
I'm working.
Um, yeah, we're gonna haveChristmas Joe coming up in
(02:08):
December.
Northeast tour, and we're gonnabe doing some down south uh
Christmas Joes.
And we're working on the Danplay also, and a couple other
things are in the works, also.
Um recently on our Northeasttour for Genesis Joe, we had the
privilege of stopping byGraceway Bible Church.
(02:32):
You guys heard our our dearbrother Mark Crabtree, he's an
assistant pastor there, and heoversees the young adults and
the families.
And uh we have not had a chanceto interview Dr.
Scott Taransky, the teachingpastor, but we hopefully that we
will do that soon enough.
Um today we're gonna talk to theexecutive pastor, Don Schwing.
(03:00):
And uh, yeah, he's reallyinterested.
I just met this guy, uh, butyeah, he's a brother in Christ,
so we go way back.
Check it out.
I want to say welcome to playson word radio, first of all.
Yeah, uh, we want to welcome DonSchwing from uh Graceway Bible
Church over in Hamilton area,Hamilton, New Jersey.
(03:20):
Yeah, and we uh we recently didour Genesis Joe play for you.
Any thoughts on that?
Um you know, I I man, you reallytook a leap of faith.
Just just taking Mark Crabtree'sword for it.
I know that's a uh props to you,man.
Uh I I bravo to you for thatbecause uh there are a lot of
(03:41):
pastors that um you know whensomebody comes up to them and
says, Hey, you gotta see thisplay, they have a preconceived
notion already, oh yeah, play,whatever, yeah, okay.
Uh and you know, they don'treally go with a lot of we've
had a lot of people that go totheir leadership or pastors, and
the pastor's like, Yeah, thanks,but no thanks.
(04:02):
Whatever, we're just gonnacontinue what we're doing, and
that's fine.
But I want to give you bravo fortaking a chance and saying, Um,
you know what, I'm gonna justtrust the Lord here.
SPEAKER_02 (04:11):
Yeah, you know, well, we hired Mark.
I mean, I I trusted him enoughto hire him here at the church.
I mean, I I shouldn't be willingto trust his judgment.
Uh so you know, he had youministering there.
I think you did a Christmas, uh,one of your Christmas
performances at the talk.
SPEAKER_00 (04:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (04:26):
Uh, and then I I reached out and Mark helped
coordinate that between uhbetween us and your lovely wife
uh to be able to get you here.
Um our church has always beenopen to alternative, um, unique
ways, I don't want to sayalternative, but unique ways to
worship the Lord.
Uh, we've had uh other um Godhas given each one of us gifts,
(04:46):
and we each use those gifts uhfor our own personal growth, our
own connection with the Lord,and we use certainly use them to
minister to others.
And who am I to say that becauseyou minister to people through
acting to say, well, that's notgood enough.
Uh so God has given you a gift,and we were so happy to be able
to have you here to minister tous uh through your Genesis, Joe.
SPEAKER_03 (05:06):
Amen.
Uh as far as the you know whatyou saw, you have any thoughts?
Did anything stick out?
Were you you seemed like youwere blessed, and I was blessed
about that, you know.
Was it uh definitely.
SPEAKER_02 (05:17):
I mean, for for me as as um I want to look at I can
look at it two ways, one as apastor, one as a person.
So as a pastor, uh just seeingthe congregation respond to you
and what you were uh presentingthrough the life of Joseph, uh,
and um responding to how youtied it into the gospel.
Now, I think everyone who wasthere was probably a believer,
(05:39):
uh, but how they responded towhat you were doing.
Um, a lot of times we can lookat the Bible and we've read the
story of Joseph a hundred times,and we just it just becomes a
story and routine to us.
But seeing it be brought to lifewith such passion and energy,
um, and there was a lot, youknow, there's more that goes on
in a person's life in Joseph'slife, other than what we read on
the words.
It was his relationship with hisfather, and what it is, what was
(06:01):
his father actually feelingabout his uh his son now being
being found being um he thoughthe was dead and then now being
found.
Um, just how you were able tobring that to life with really
brought the Bible uh to life.
And I think that that is hugely,hugely important.
And then as a person, just Ithink we talked a little bit how
you're able to turn off and turnon and be able to go from one
(06:22):
emotion to the other.
Um, my background has alwaysbeen in logistics, you know how
things move from point A topoint B and back again or move
on in the most efficient waypossible, and how you're able to
go from crying on stage to nowplaying the piano and then doing
this, and you go to a differentcharacter, it just just amazed
me.
SPEAKER_03 (06:38):
Amen.
Yeah, that was that was that'salways a little bit of a
challenge, but yeah, God's beenHe's He's uh given me the
ability to do that.
And we have there's wide swingsof emotion.
You're like one minute you'reyou're like you got tears coming
out your eyes, and then the nextminute you're kind of laughing,
still still processing the thetears and everything, but you're
(06:58):
laughing like wait, what did hejust say?
You know, we have uh we have acouple a couple contemporary
type of uh I want to say I don'tlike to call them jokes, but
they are contemporary bits ofhumor that are mixed in, where
uh, for example, one of them iswhere Joseph is talking about
his storehouses and he comparesthem to the Amazon warehouses,
(07:19):
you know, that Amazon'sbuilding.
It's like it's funny.
SPEAKER_02 (07:21):
I was I was preaching uh last week and I was
thinking about how you did that,and I I was um I was preaching
on uh David and we're goingthrough the life of David and
David and Saul, and how when umSaul heard that David went to
the town uh to a Himelex uh townand how nobody said anything,
and he's like, Well, who's gonnado this for me and who's gonna
(07:42):
do that?
You guys didn't do this, and youguys didn't do that, and I'm
like, he's like whining, and I'mlike, there was a book in the
90s called How to Win Friendsand Influence People, Win
Friends and Influence People,and I guarantee you, Saul never
read this book.
So I'm like, all right, I cantake something contemporary that
we know, apply it there, createa little bit of humor with it.
But it you know, that thathumor, because when we're when
(08:03):
you're you're you're a pastor,you know, you're giving a you're
giving a sermon and you'reyou're spending 10 minutes
talking, and people can startlike, all right, and I'm ready
for a little bit of break, oryou start shifting your seats.
We gotta throw something inthere that creates a little bit
of a you know, a little bit ofhumor or a little bit of a
visual uh that kind of helpsthem get them refocused for the
for the next 10 minutes.
SPEAKER_03 (08:22):
I just see Jesus doing the same thing.
I I mean throughout thescripture, I've there are things
that are that are funny or umironic and and funny.
I mean, I even laugh.
I think it's kind of funny to acertain extent, even though it's
tragic, the the whole thingabout Haman in the book of
Esther, when uh when he whenhe's falling all over the couch
(08:45):
all over Esther after shebasically exposes him to the
king, she says, it's this it'sthis vile Haman here who's who's
done this.
He's trying to wipe my peopleout, and he's like falling all
over the couch.
And one of the funniest lines inthat whole section to me is
where the the servants, theservants say to the king, well,
Haman actually has a gallowsbuilt, it's about 90 feet tall
(09:07):
or whatever, or 70 feet tall,and uh he had it built for
Mordecai.
And and the king's like, hanghim on it.
I mean, that to me, I man, it'sit's tragic for them, but it's
just the type of turnaround andtype of twist that Hollywood
wishes that they had in theirstories today.
SPEAKER_02 (09:24):
And when I was uh on Sunday, I was we were talking
about uh 1 Samuel 24 uh and howuh David was on one side of the
mountain and Saul was on theother.
And these aren't mountains likethe Rockies, these are just like
kind of like you know, um hillswith rocks on them, and they're
hiding, you know, he's hiding,and Saul's chasing.
We're kind of going back andforth, building attention.
It said Hollywood wishes theycould have a script like this,
you know, and just the tensionthat's there, and how and there
(09:46):
in that case, God uh you usedthe uh the attack of the
Philistines uh to distract Saul.
Saul then left, so David uhDavid.
SPEAKER_03 (09:53):
I tell you that that scene is so man, that section of
David's life, that is it's sosuspenseful because and I've
often said I said, I wish I wishuh the the the whoever wrote it,
Samuel or what I I wish they hada drone flying over that
mountain, a drone shot of thatscene would have really set
(10:16):
because you got David and hisand his band of guys, 400 or 600
guys, whatever it is, and andthen you got on the other side,
you have the whole army movingtoward, and they're they're like
moving around to and it's justso suspenseful to me.
SPEAKER_02 (10:30):
I yeah, yeah.
I was I was looking for a visualto put with the sermon where I
could have like a map with likeyou know the arrows going a Zur
attack, and you're like you walklike watch like a historical um
uh recreation of a battle fromthe revolution, you know, how
Saul's army was all around andthen David's here.
SPEAKER_03 (10:44):
I just I you know I just couldn't I'll see if I can
find one for you.
I because uh yeah, I've oftenthought about that, especially
that section, man.
It's and it's amazing that Saulhas breaks off uh you know,
because of God's providencethere and setting and protecting
David.
Uh, I tell you, I wish there wasa drone shot.
The only thing something that itreminds me of, and it wouldn't
(11:07):
relate to everybody, but I'm aI'm like a uh a sci-fi geek too.
I like Star Trek and Star Wars.
Okay, so in The Wrath of Khan,the original.
In the Wrath of Khan, Khan's inthe Reliant, and Kirk is in the
Enterprise, and and they'rethey're going around this the
nebula right there, and itthat's what it reminds me of,
man.
(11:27):
It's like the Reliant outgunsthe the the Enterprise and every
Enterprise is all beat upanyway, and it's that's what it
reminds me of, but not everybodycould relate.
But I I I just uh Yeah, sothat's well okay.
So let's let's just quicklytrans into transition into this
section.
Like, tell me how did how didPastor Dodd how did you how did
(11:50):
you come to meet Jesus, man?
How did this happen?
SPEAKER_02 (11:53):
So I I was raised Catholic, uh in a Catholic home,
went uh I wasn't a twice a yearCatholic or a senior Catholic,
so we went we went every Sunday.
Um and as soon as I I did mysacraments, you know, come uh
communion, confirmation, allthose, all those things.
Uh and then as soon as I wasold, as soon as I was driving
myself to church and I wasoutside of my parents' control,
(12:14):
I was like, Yeah, I'm not goingto church.
Uh and I was I was pretty badwith it.
I would say I was going tochurch and I'd actually go
someplace else that I shouldn'tbe going and then come home when
church was about to be was aboutto be done.
And I got caught one time lying,and um, but anyway, that's
that's a whole other thing.
It just did the things that youknow you do when you're
deceiving and how it just leadsto one lie and leads to another
(12:34):
lie.
I got, you know, I I got marriedin the Catholic Church, um, but
I was nominally Christian.
Let's say I mean I knew aboutJesus, I didn't know what it
meant to have a relationshipwith Jesus.
And uh I was working um I wasworking in Philly at the time,
and a guy I worked with was aChristian attending Calvary
Chapel, Philadelphia Joe Volch'schurch.
(12:56):
Joe Volch.
Uh and then um somehow he mighthave mentioned to me something
about listening to his radioprogram.
So I was working uh his radioprogram, I forget what it was
called, but it was like seveno'clock in the morning, uh, hour
commute to uh to Philly, and Iwould listen to it.
And I was struggling in mymarriage at the time.
(13:17):
Uh I was thinking my wife wasn'tthe woman that I wanted her to
be.
Um but then I get there.
I eventually realized that thatwas actually the completely
wrong thinking because it's notabout who I want her to be, it's
about who God wants her to be.
Uh I was listening to thismessage from Joe, uh Pastor Joe,
and he had said, you know,people would come to his office
and would say, Listen, PastorJoe, is it okay if I and he
(13:40):
says, if you ask him thatquestion, you already know the
answer is no.
SPEAKER_03 (13:43):
You know, yeah, straight from the heart, man.
I that that pro that program, Iused to listen on the commute
too.
Yeah, and he he's he's I think II know the program you're
talking about because I he wouldsay that more than once.
SPEAKER_02 (13:56):
And then he and I I've used I've used that on
Sunday morning to tell impactfulit was.
And it was um uh you know, I wasinvolved with stuff I shouldn't
be involved in, and I wasconvincing myself it was okay.
And I said, listen, when I go tomeet God, I'm gonna tell him
it's okay because.
And I thought it was the samesermon or it was shortly
thereafter, Joe was like,Listen, no matter how hard you
(14:17):
try, you will never be able toconvince God that you are right
and he is wrong.
And that was the eye-opener thatI needed.
And I'm telling you, I passed myoffice, uh, I found a church
that was open.
It happened to be a Catholicchurch because the doors were
open for Catholic morning mass.
And I just went and I kneeledand I just prayed for the Lord
to forgive me.
And it was one of thosetear-filled moments.
(14:39):
Uh, I don't remember the date.
Some people have their their uhsecond birthday uh in memory,
but I remember it as clearly ascan be.
Uh and then within like I don'tknow, three weeks, my wife was
like, you know, there'ssomething different about you.
Amen.
You know, she's in one of thosethings like you're very
attractive to me right now, andand not in the not in the
(15:00):
physical sense.
I mean, I knew I knew what shemeant.
And that was it.
And then we um we hadn't beengoing to church.
I suck my wife away from churchbecause I didn't want to go.
Uh, we found a method, well, wehad two, our kids were little at
the time, maybe um, maybe sevenand three.
Uh I went to a Methodist churchfor a year.
That wasn't doing it.
(15:20):
We were the uh youngest peoplethere in our late 30s.
Then a friend of mine who I wasdoing karate with uh had said,
Hey, I have this church overhere.
Why don't you think about comingto business?
I came to visit Graceway, thatwas in 2009, and we just uh I
fell in love with it.
Uh the teacher at the time wasum uh Rich uh Dr.
(15:42):
Richard Emmons.
He was a professor at PBU, uhnow Carrie University, and it
was great.
I mean, lively worship.
I came out of the CatholicChurch where it was hymns and
dirges, it wasn't you knowlively worship, and it was
fantastic.
And my wife started to come andwe we found our place.
Um we eventually started servingin Iwana, and that's how we got
(16:03):
integrated in with the church.
SPEAKER_03 (16:06):
Amen.
Wow, that that's absolutelyfantastic, man.
I love it.
That's I mean, the fact that theLord the Lord got a hold of you,
and in in the Catholic Church,see a lot of people on the uh uh
Protestant side, uh they'll theyjust paint with a broad brush,
man, and be like, listen, andthe Lord can use anybody, the
(16:28):
Lord used a donkey to talk tosomebody.
I don't like to paint becausewhen I got married, Katie's
family, they were all they'reall Catholic.
And I actually had conversationswith God.
I said, Lord, why do you have melike marrying why'd you connect
me with a family of Catholics,man?
I mean, really?
They're praying to Mary, they'rethey're you know, they're uh
they they believe in the thethat the body and the blood, you
(16:49):
know, the in the communion, thewhole thing is is you dying
again, and and like I had allthese, I was abrasive, and the
Lord used them to show me thatthey are people behind that
name.
You know, they're they arepeople there are people behind
the name that we broad brushwith a broad brush, oh, those
Catholics or whatever.
And it really straightened meout.
(17:12):
He straightened me out in a lotof ways.
So I have an appreciation for uhfor what you just said.
He just going into it.
SPEAKER_02 (17:18):
I think it's a path of least resistance for people,
is just to play everything witha broad brush.
It's like all those people overthere are bad, so whatever label
you want to want to put on them,because it's easier to do it
that way than to see them as aperson because there takes
there's serious spiritual effortto engage with people.
So, you know, I think it's easywhen we paint with a broad
brush, or we're not even gonnadeal with them over there
because they're Catholic.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
(17:38):
They're they're people just likeeverybody else, and they some of
them may be believers, and someof them a large portion of them
probably aren't, and they theyneed they need to be ministered
to, and we can't just dismissthem because they're in a
they're in a separate branchthat you feel, you know, ah,
they're believers, they'rethey're they're all doomed.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I mean, you can say that aboutnon-believers, and you'll go
(18:00):
after you know non-believers whodon't profess a different type
of Christian faith.
Why do you go after them and notthem?
I said, isn't it all the same?
SPEAKER_03 (18:07):
Good point.
That's an excellent point, man.
I love it.
I also love the fact that you'relistening to you were listening
to uh straight from the heartwith Joe Foch and um because I
know I used to commute downeither 295 or the turnpike,
commuting to Philly fromHamilton, believe it or not.
I was in Hamilton for a while,and uh yeah, I just uh 560 FIL,
(18:31):
I believe, was the AM station,and that's what the Lord used to
actually He really got a hold ofmy heart.
I mean, as a kid I believed, andI I I gave my life to the Lord
as a kid, uh, but I was socompromised in my walk, and I
just had no power, man, in mylife, and uh, and it wasn't it
(18:51):
really until I was commuting toPhilly and hearing daily.
I I was hearing Greg Laurie, uhCharles Stanley, Rao Reese, Joe
Foach, and some others.
Um, but I just was listening tothose, you know, those guys, and
FIL played a big role in that.
(19:12):
Just popping that on, and I justremember it was it was Greg
Lurie, really.
I was on a turnpike uh north ofexit four, right there at a
Philly exit.
If you're gonna go take the BenFranklin Bridge or whatever, and
um I remember pulling over onthe turnpike because Greg Lurie,
he didn't just give anopportunity for uh somebody
who's a non-believer to come toChrist.
(19:35):
He said, and you who you youmaybe you walked with, you've
been walking with the Lord as ayou know, but you you just you
have no no power in your life,and you just you want to be
closer to the Lord and youbelieve, but you just have you
know, you need your unbeliefhelped or whatever.
I forget how he put it, but thatwas me, man.
And I was like, yo, I pulledover.
(19:55):
I was like, Lord, if we're gonnado this, I don't want to be a
rubber band going back and forthand bat I I let's if we're gonna
do it, let's do it.
If you know, I need I need youto I think I my line was I need
you to do it because I've proventhat uh me trying to be the guy
that you that I think you wantme to be is a recipe for failure
(20:17):
over and over.
I have a track record of failingat that.
So if you're God and I believeyou are, I need you to be God
for me, and I need you to do itthrough me.
How about that?
I'm here, and that made a thatmade a gigantic difference, man.
Big difference, man.
We can't do it on our own.
There's no way.
No, you just can't.
And it's I mean, and then youlike the guilt of failing and
(20:39):
letting God down and just beinglike, oh my goodness, here I am
again.
And and it's because we're doingthings in our own strength is
just a recipe for failure,frustration, and I need one more
F.
Let's see.
Uh oh, it'll come to me later.
Trying to I'm trying to do my myrapping thing, but I'm too it's
too too early in the morning tocome up with it.
(21:01):
But um, yeah, it I just I thinkthat even the plays, the plays
that I'm doing, people are like,oh my goodness, how did you how
did you do that for so long?
And how do you remember allthat?
Listen, man, when I say it's notme, I mean that it's not me.
Because I wouldn't be able to doanything without him.
And I don't want to put it to Idon't want to do anything unless
(21:22):
he's gonna go before him do it.
Man, it's so unworth doinganything in your own strength
because you you end upinvariably, you end up tired,
exhausted, beat up, unfulfilled,unsatisfied because you didn't
meet the mark when it's in yourown strength.
So the only thing you have toshow for it is being wiped out,
dead tired, frustrated, and yousteal that guy down.
(21:46):
So hey, it's a win-win when yousay, All right, you know what?
I'm here for you.
I'll do whatever you need me todo.
You help me do it.
They one of the they call mepast the buck.
Pastor, Pastor Buck or Past theBuck.
Because that's what I do.
I pass the buck with uh thebuck's not doesn't stop at my
desk.
It goes, it goes to the Lord'sdesk.
(22:07):
The buck didn't that's thatfamous Bill Clinton line.
The buck never got to my desk.
SPEAKER_02 (22:11):
Well it's it's it's amazing how you you look at your
life before the Lord and thethings you struggled with, and
yeah, your life in the Lord andthe things you're able to
accomplish.
Um, one of the things I uh myhobby or is uh I'm a soccer
referee and I've been doing itfor 10 years, and I've uh I've
been able to advance up thesoccer refereeing hierarchy.
(22:33):
And it's not my own doing, it'sonly on the Lord.
And and I think about how I usedto handle conflict and
challenges before I used to justassert myself and say it's my
way or the highway.
Uh, but that's you know, whenyou're in a when you're in a
conflict, it doesn't always uhit doesn't always work that way.
And you have to always be ableto apply the right approach to
the right situation.
And I can definitely say forsure I would not be able to be
(22:55):
successful in that area of mylife, uh handling the conflict
that constantly that comes withofficiating a high-level mesh,
whether it's baseball, football,basketball, whatever sport, you
have to have that center ofpeace.
And really, I just my relianceon the Lord each and every time
I go out there to officiatereally helps me to manage that
sort of conflict.
Uh, fortunately, here at thechurch, there's there's not much
(23:16):
conflict.
We're we're a pretty um God isdefinitely blessing us each and
every minute.
Um, and there's times peopledon't always get along, uh, but
everyone here seems to be solelyfocused on the Lord.
Uh, there's not there's next tonobody focused on personal gain,
and we're gonna divide thechurch because you want to
change the uh curtain colorsfrom white to right light blue
(23:37):
or something like that.
Um, you just have a unifiedfocus um on God.
And I think that's why God hascontinued uh to bless Graceway
over these last uh these lastthree years.
SPEAKER_03 (23:47):
Amen.
Yeah, tell us tell us a littlebit more about Graceway.
I want when I when I got there,I was like, wow man, these this
is cool, nice sanctuary.
Um, and then Mark told me youguys you guys got that the old
7-Eleven building in the backthat and that's like tell us
about some of the ministriesbecause I was a I was blown away
with Mark was telling me aboutsome of what's going on.
SPEAKER_02 (24:09):
So I want to back can I back up a little bit about
2009 and then we'll kind of gogo forward.
Um so I I came to the church in2009.
I think it's a cool story, and Iwant to be able to encourage uh
your listeners.
Um, I my family started to cometo Graceway in 2009.
Uh, I was the president of amanufacturing company in
Philadelphia, and um I it waspretty successful in my career.
(24:31):
God certainly blessed me.
I believed he placed me in thatjob in Philly to be able to help
people, and I was able to leadsome people to the Lord uh while
I was there, and that wasfantastic.
Actually, one of uh the guysthat was there drew me a
wonderful uh pencil drawing thatI keep here because he's the
first person that I that I seethat I was able to lead to the
Lord, and it just holds um uhjust um he has a phenomenal gift
(24:51):
in how the Lord was using hisgifting.
Um, so anyhow, so about uh 2016,I was asked to uh be part of a
mission trip here at the church.
And when someone asked me to goor if I would be interested in
leading the trip, because my mybackground is in administration
and leadership, forgive me withmy nose.
I just have this itchy.
It's all it's all good.
Um it's all good.
We're not recording videoanyway.
Okay, so that's oh great, thankyou.
(25:14):
So excuse me.
Uh do your thing, it's all good.
Uh they asked me to lead thistrip.
My first response was man, Idon't want to use one of my
weeks of vacation for that.
And then I was like, wait aminute, God give you four weeks
of vacation.
You can use one for him.
It took about a second for me toget my mind or in it right.
So, anyway, I went on this trip.
It was to a um uh to an area uhto a place called Commission on
(25:35):
Compassion in Los Angeles.
We'd supported missionaries whowere there, uh, and this group
ministered to people who wereboth deaf and blind, so they
can't see and they can't hearand they can't speak.
And I'm like, yes, it's fan,it's interesting.
Uh some of them can speakbecause they went deaf later in
life.
There's some vocalizations, asyou would see, like some deaf
people on TV or something likethat.
Uh, but very difficult tocommunicate with them.
(25:57):
But anyhow, when I was there, ithad this the Holy Spirit got a
hold of me and said, You need tobe involved in ministry, you
need to be doing something likethis with your life.
And it was sort of like the sortof like the salvation
experience, fall on your knees,Holy Spirit a hold of you, tears
coming out, and God ordained meto be roomed with our assistant
pastor at the time.
I was explaining to him what wasgoing on.
(26:18):
He says, Why don't you take someseminary classes?
So I never went to Bible school,Bible college.
He says, You don't have to, youcan go into seminary utilizing
your professional experience,and you just have to get caught
up a little bit, which I did.
I enrolled in seminary, and ayear later, a spot opened up
here on staff for um someonewith some administrative uh
background.
Uh, I was hired here at thechurch.
Uh, took um took prayer, but itwas pretty easy decision for us
(26:41):
to make the leap from one job tothe other.
Uh, and we believe that you knowGod had certainly prepared us.
I mean, you can imagine there isum there's an income difference
between the job that I had andthe job that I have now that I
had um that I had.
And um, but God prepared us forthat.
We never we always lived, mywife and I always lived as a
(27:03):
one-income family because um,heaven forbid, something
happened to one of the kids andone of us needed to stay home or
something like that.
So this is part of the thinkingthat God gave us to prepare us
for this moment.
SPEAKER_03 (27:13):
You have a much better life insurance policy.
Yes, with the Lord, it's aneternal, it's eternal life.
That's the name of it, eternallife insurance.
And uh the no deductive.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
100%.
SPEAKER_02 (27:27):
And um uh this the youth pastor left a short time
later, so I started working withthe youth because I knew them
because I had started in Iwana,so I knew those kids.
So it was a really sort ofsmooth transition uh as an
assistant pastor.
And then the senior pastor atthe time asked me, hey, um,
considering creating thisposition of executive pastor to
handle all the executivefunctions at the church.
(27:47):
Would you be interested in doingit?
Again, I just see God's hand inall of that in the preparation
of all the administrativeexperience and executive
experience I had prior, was ableto now apply that to the church.
Uh, and then I finish mymaster's in divinity.
I go to the process of startingmy ordination, and then he says,
uh, I'm quitting in 30 days.
(28:08):
I'm like, uh, all right, what dowe what what what do we do here?
So I'm like, all right, the ideawas that he was going to train
me for about two years, mentorme for about two years, and then
if the church called me, I wouldthen be the senior pastor of the
church.
But now that two years didn'thappen, and I'm like, all right,
I mean, I'm here, I think I'm Ithink I can do it.
(28:29):
Uh but the the elders had otherideas, and uh, you know, I was
hurt.
Uh but you can't you can't arguewith experience.
You can be one thing if theydon't agree with your
personality, or you have maybe alittle bit of a different view
over here, you view a littleleft, they view a little right,
or whatever it is.
But they're like, listen, wewant somebody with five to ten
years of preaching experience,and you just don't have it.
I'm like, I can't argue withthat, still hurt, but yeah, but
(28:51):
yeah, but it's what it was.
Uh so we spent about a yearlooking for a teaching pastor,
and the the board was great.
They're like, listen, we want tohonor you, me, in in the role
that God has called you to be.
So we're not gonna hire a seniorpastor, we're gonna hire someone
who teaches uh in a spark time,and you continue to grow and
pastor the church, which is howthe last uh since 2022, and it's
(29:13):
gone.
We've uh Pastor Scott Taranskyuh came here as our teaching
pastor, another Calvary pastor.
He was uh meeting at one of themiddle schools in the town next
door, but with COVID, they gotkicked out.
Then they were meeting in a barndown the street from my house.
No heat, no electric, nobathrooms, no classroom space,
no floor, no chairs.
(29:33):
So they they would bring in bagchairs on mulch floors and start
up the generator, start up thespace heaters and stuff, and
that was that was his church.
And we're like, Well, listen,you know, we need someone to
teach your people at your churchneed a building.
He's a good teacher.
See what God does with these.
God brought Pastor Scott here in2022.
Well, look at how he's weavingthat we've weaved that whole
(29:56):
thing together.
I mean, no nobody could havethought of this.
I mean, there's only got Couldhave done that.
So a short time later, uh, webecome aware that the 7 Eleven
building behind uh beside us,behind us in that area, um, was
moving out, moving across thestreet.
Now we've been trying to buythis building for 15 years.
Uh the previous pastor wanted totear it down, wanted to expand
(30:17):
parking and stuff like that.
That wasn't the vision that Ihad for that space.
My vision was to create anoutreach center for the
community uh where we can helpthem physically and spiritually
because some people are hesitantto walk into a church.
Yes, right.
You're right, you know,ancillary to the church.
Um so the opportunity became umwe realized that this property
was available.
We couldn't find the owneranywhere.
(30:38):
We did all the tax records, allthe stuff that we were that you
could you could do without beinga realtor.
Uh so we made an announcement atthe church hey, this um uh this
this is an opportunity for us.
We just we cannot find out whothe owner is.
Somebody from the church callsme on Monday, says, I know
somebody who knows somebody.
I'll give you a call in about 10minutes.
Calls me back, bound, you know,one, two, three company.
(30:59):
I'm like, I think that's theowner.
So I called our realtors, like,yep, that's the owner.
And we're like, are you kiddingme?
So we had our realtor, if wewere gonna go to the market, he
estimated at about a milliondollars uh for the building and
and the property.
They came in with 600,000 andchange.
That's what they offered to.
Thank God.
Wow, that's amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (31:21):
Uh it's it just that means God wanted it.
It gets better.
Amen.
Amen.
Well, check it out.
We are gonna continue this nextweek, uh, God willing, if the
creek doesn't rise and if theLord tarries, okay?
Um, so but until then, the Lordbless you and keep you, the Lord
make his face to shine upon youand be gracious to you, the Lord
(31:42):
lift up his countenance upon youand give you peace.
SPEAKER_01 (31:56):
This program was made possible by the Playson
Word family of supporters.
To find out more, check out ourwebsite at plazonword.org.
Lord, you know you're now listening to play is
the best.
SPEAKER_02 (00:07):
I was involved with stuff I shouldn't be involved
in, and I was convincing myselfit was okay.
And I said, listen, when I go tomeet God, I'm gonna tell him
it's okay because I don't knowif it was the same sermon or it
was shortly thereafter, Joe waslike, Listen, no matter how hard
you try, you will never be ableto convince God that you are
right and he is wrong.
And that was the eye-opener thatI needed.
(00:27):
And I'm telling you, I asked myoffice, I found the church that
was open, and I just went and Ikneeled and I prayed for the
Lord to forgive me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
Hello, and welcome to Plays on Word Radio, where we
discuss, analyze work, and playon the word of God.
Thank you for joining us on the6 Thursday today.
Let's join Pastor Teddy, alsoknown as Fred David Kenny Jr.,
the founder of Plays on WordTheater, as he does a deep dive
into the Word of God.
SPEAKER_03 (01:21):
Amen.
Amen.
Well, welcome to all of youlistening to Plays on Word
Radio.
My name is Fred David Kenny Jr.
Many of you know me, some of youmight not, but it's all good.
Thank you very much, Katie Kennyand Josh Taylor, for that
excellent introduction.
We are back at Southern Commandfor Plays on Word.
(01:45):
And uh yeah, we are we got a lotof stuff, a lot of stuff
happening.
We're prepping for our ChristmasJoe tour coming up.
Uh there's a lot of things inthe works.
Please pray for my wife.
She's working hard.
And um I'm hardly working.
No, I'm working.
I'm working.
Um, yeah, we're gonna haveChristmas Joe coming up in
(02:08):
December.
Northeast tour, and we're gonnabe doing some down south uh
Christmas Joes.
And we're working on the Danplay also, and a couple other
things are in the works, also.
Um recently on our Northeasttour for Genesis Joe, we had the
privilege of stopping byGraceway Bible Church.
(02:32):
You guys heard our our dearbrother Mark Crabtree, he's an
assistant pastor there, and heoversees the young adults and
the families.
And uh we have not had a chanceto interview Dr.
Scott Taransky, the teachingpastor, but we hopefully that we
will do that soon enough.
Um today we're gonna talk to theexecutive pastor, Don Schwing.
(03:00):
And uh, yeah, he's reallyinterested.
I just met this guy, uh, butyeah, he's a brother in Christ,
so we go way back.
Check it out.
I want to say welcome to playson word radio, first of all.
Yeah, uh, we want to welcome DonSchwing from uh Graceway Bible
Church over in Hamilton area,Hamilton, New Jersey.
(03:20):
Yeah, and we uh we recently didour Genesis Joe play for you.
Any thoughts on that?
Um you know, I I man, you reallytook a leap of faith.
Just just taking Mark Crabtree'sword for it.
I know that's a uh props to you,man.
Uh I I bravo to you for thatbecause uh there are a lot of
(03:41):
pastors that um you know whensomebody comes up to them and
says, Hey, you gotta see thisplay, they have a preconceived
notion already, oh yeah, play,whatever, yeah, okay.
Uh and you know, they don'treally go with a lot of we've
had a lot of people that go totheir leadership or pastors, and
the pastor's like, Yeah, thanks,but no thanks.
(04:02):
Whatever, we're just gonnacontinue what we're doing, and
that's fine.
But I want to give you bravo fortaking a chance and saying, Um,
you know what, I'm gonna justtrust the Lord here.
SPEAKER_02 (04:11):
Yeah, you know, well, we hired Mark.
I mean, I I trusted him enoughto hire him here at the church.
I mean, I I shouldn't be willingto trust his judgment.
Uh so you know, he had youministering there.
I think you did a Christmas, uh,one of your Christmas
performances at the talk.
SPEAKER_00 (04:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (04:26):
Uh, and then I I reached out and Mark helped
coordinate that between uhbetween us and your lovely wife
uh to be able to get you here.
Um our church has always beenopen to alternative, um, unique
ways, I don't want to sayalternative, but unique ways to
worship the Lord.
Uh, we've had uh other um Godhas given each one of us gifts,
(04:46):
and we each use those gifts uhfor our own personal growth, our
own connection with the Lord,and we use certainly use them to
minister to others.
And who am I to say that becauseyou minister to people through
acting to say, well, that's notgood enough.
Uh so God has given you a gift,and we were so happy to be able
to have you here to minister tous uh through your Genesis, Joe.
SPEAKER_03 (05:06):
Amen.
Uh as far as the you know whatyou saw, you have any thoughts?
Did anything stick out?
Were you you seemed like youwere blessed, and I was blessed
about that, you know.
Was it uh definitely.
SPEAKER_02 (05:17):
I mean, for for me as as um I want to look at I can
look at it two ways, one as apastor, one as a person.
So as a pastor, uh just seeingthe congregation respond to you
and what you were uh presentingthrough the life of Joseph, uh,
and um responding to how youtied it into the gospel.
Now, I think everyone who wasthere was probably a believer,
(05:39):
uh, but how they responded towhat you were doing.
Um, a lot of times we can lookat the Bible and we've read the
story of Joseph a hundred times,and we just it just becomes a
story and routine to us.
But seeing it be brought to lifewith such passion and energy,
um, and there was a lot, youknow, there's more that goes on
in a person's life in Joseph'slife, other than what we read on
the words.
It was his relationship with hisfather, and what it is, what was
(06:01):
his father actually feelingabout his uh his son now being
being found being um he thoughthe was dead and then now being
found.
Um, just how you were able tobring that to life with really
brought the Bible uh to life.
And I think that that is hugely,hugely important.
And then as a person, just Ithink we talked a little bit how
you're able to turn off and turnon and be able to go from one
(06:22):
emotion to the other.
Um, my background has alwaysbeen in logistics, you know how
things move from point A topoint B and back again or move
on in the most efficient waypossible, and how you're able to
go from crying on stage to nowplaying the piano and then doing
this, and you go to a differentcharacter, it just just amazed
me.
SPEAKER_03 (06:38):
Amen.
Yeah, that was that was that'salways a little bit of a
challenge, but yeah, God's beenHe's He's uh given me the
ability to do that.
And we have there's wide swingsof emotion.
You're like one minute you'reyou're like you got tears coming
out your eyes, and then the nextminute you're kind of laughing,
still still processing the thetears and everything, but you're
(06:58):
laughing like wait, what did hejust say?
You know, we have uh we have acouple a couple contemporary
type of uh I want to say I don'tlike to call them jokes, but
they are contemporary bits ofhumor that are mixed in, where
uh, for example, one of them iswhere Joseph is talking about
his storehouses and he comparesthem to the Amazon warehouses,
(07:19):
you know, that Amazon'sbuilding.
It's like it's funny.
SPEAKER_02 (07:21):
I was I was preaching uh last week and I was
thinking about how you did that,and I I was um I was preaching
on uh David and we're goingthrough the life of David and
David and Saul, and how when umSaul heard that David went to
the town uh to a Himelex uh townand how nobody said anything,
and he's like, Well, who's gonnado this for me and who's gonna
(07:42):
do that?
You guys didn't do this, and youguys didn't do that, and I'm
like, he's like whining, and I'mlike, there was a book in the
90s called How to Win Friendsand Influence People, Win
Friends and Influence People,and I guarantee you, Saul never
read this book.
So I'm like, all right, I cantake something contemporary that
we know, apply it there, createa little bit of humor with it.
But it you know, that thathumor, because when we're when
(08:03):
you're you're you're a pastor,you know, you're giving a you're
giving a sermon and you'reyou're spending 10 minutes
talking, and people can startlike, all right, and I'm ready
for a little bit of break, oryou start shifting your seats.
We gotta throw something inthere that creates a little bit
of a you know, a little bit ofhumor or a little bit of a
visual uh that kind of helpsthem get them refocused for the
for the next 10 minutes.
SPEAKER_03 (08:22):
I just see Jesus doing the same thing.
I I mean throughout thescripture, I've there are things
that are that are funny or umironic and and funny.
I mean, I even laugh.
I think it's kind of funny to acertain extent, even though it's
tragic, the the whole thingabout Haman in the book of
Esther, when uh when he whenhe's falling all over the couch
(08:45):
all over Esther after shebasically exposes him to the
king, she says, it's this it'sthis vile Haman here who's who's
done this.
He's trying to wipe my peopleout, and he's like falling all
over the couch.
And one of the funniest lines inthat whole section to me is
where the the servants, theservants say to the king, well,
Haman actually has a gallowsbuilt, it's about 90 feet tall
(09:07):
or whatever, or 70 feet tall,and uh he had it built for
Mordecai.
And and the king's like, hanghim on it.
I mean, that to me, I man, it'sit's tragic for them, but it's
just the type of turnaround andtype of twist that Hollywood
wishes that they had in theirstories today.
SPEAKER_02 (09:24):
And when I was uh on Sunday, I was we were talking
about uh 1 Samuel 24 uh and howuh David was on one side of the
mountain and Saul was on theother.
And these aren't mountains likethe Rockies, these are just like
kind of like you know, um hillswith rocks on them, and they're
hiding, you know, he's hiding,and Saul's chasing.
We're kind of going back andforth, building attention.
It said Hollywood wishes theycould have a script like this,
you know, and just the tensionthat's there, and how and there
(09:46):
in that case, God uh you usedthe uh the attack of the
Philistines uh to distract Saul.
Saul then left, so David uhDavid.
SPEAKER_03 (09:53):
I tell you that that scene is so man, that section of
David's life, that is it's sosuspenseful because and I've
often said I said, I wish I wishuh the the the whoever wrote it,
Samuel or what I I wish they hada drone flying over that
mountain, a drone shot of thatscene would have really set
(10:16):
because you got David and hisand his band of guys, 400 or 600
guys, whatever it is, and andthen you got on the other side,
you have the whole army movingtoward, and they're they're like
moving around to and it's justso suspenseful to me.
SPEAKER_02 (10:30):
I yeah, yeah.
I was I was looking for a visualto put with the sermon where I
could have like a map with likeyou know the arrows going a Zur
attack, and you're like you walklike watch like a historical um
uh recreation of a battle fromthe revolution, you know, how
Saul's army was all around andthen David's here.
SPEAKER_03 (10:44):
I just I you know I just couldn't I'll see if I can
find one for you.
I because uh yeah, I've oftenthought about that, especially
that section, man.
It's and it's amazing that Saulhas breaks off uh you know,
because of God's providencethere and setting and protecting
David.
Uh, I tell you, I wish there wasa drone shot.
The only thing something that itreminds me of, and it wouldn't
(11:07):
relate to everybody, but I'm aI'm like a uh a sci-fi geek too.
I like Star Trek and Star Wars.
Okay, so in The Wrath of Khan,the original.
In the Wrath of Khan, Khan's inthe Reliant, and Kirk is in the
Enterprise, and and they'rethey're going around this the
nebula right there, and itthat's what it reminds me of,
man.
(11:27):
It's like the Reliant outgunsthe the the Enterprise and every
Enterprise is all beat upanyway, and it's that's what it
reminds me of, but not everybodycould relate.
But I I I just uh Yeah, sothat's well okay.
So let's let's just quicklytrans into transition into this
section.
Like, tell me how did how didPastor Dodd how did you how did
(11:50):
you come to meet Jesus, man?
How did this happen?
SPEAKER_02 (11:53):
So I I was raised Catholic, uh in a Catholic home,
went uh I wasn't a twice a yearCatholic or a senior Catholic,
so we went we went every Sunday.
Um and as soon as I I did mysacraments, you know, come uh
communion, confirmation, allthose, all those things.
Uh and then as soon as I wasold, as soon as I was driving
myself to church and I wasoutside of my parents' control,
(12:14):
I was like, Yeah, I'm not goingto church.
Uh and I was I was pretty badwith it.
I would say I was going tochurch and I'd actually go
someplace else that I shouldn'tbe going and then come home when
church was about to be was aboutto be done.
And I got caught one time lying,and um, but anyway, that's
that's a whole other thing.
It just did the things that youknow you do when you're
deceiving and how it just leadsto one lie and leads to another
(12:34):
lie.
I got, you know, I I got marriedin the Catholic Church, um, but
I was nominally Christian.
Let's say I mean I knew aboutJesus, I didn't know what it
meant to have a relationshipwith Jesus.
And uh I was working um I wasworking in Philly at the time,
and a guy I worked with was aChristian attending Calvary
Chapel, Philadelphia Joe Volch'schurch.
(12:56):
Joe Volch.
Uh and then um somehow he mighthave mentioned to me something
about listening to his radioprogram.
So I was working uh his radioprogram, I forget what it was
called, but it was like seveno'clock in the morning, uh, hour
commute to uh to Philly, and Iwould listen to it.
And I was struggling in mymarriage at the time.
(13:17):
Uh I was thinking my wife wasn'tthe woman that I wanted her to
be.
Um but then I get there.
I eventually realized that thatwas actually the completely
wrong thinking because it's notabout who I want her to be, it's
about who God wants her to be.
Uh I was listening to thismessage from Joe, uh Pastor Joe,
and he had said, you know,people would come to his office
and would say, Listen, PastorJoe, is it okay if I and he
(13:40):
says, if you ask him thatquestion, you already know the
answer is no.
SPEAKER_03 (13:43):
You know, yeah, straight from the heart, man.
I that that pro that program, Iused to listen on the commute
too.
Yeah, and he he's he's I think II know the program you're
talking about because I he wouldsay that more than once.
SPEAKER_02 (13:56):
And then he and I I've used I've used that on
Sunday morning to tell impactfulit was.
And it was um uh you know, I wasinvolved with stuff I shouldn't
be involved in, and I wasconvincing myself it was okay.
And I said, listen, when I go tomeet God, I'm gonna tell him
it's okay because.
And I thought it was the samesermon or it was shortly
thereafter, Joe was like,Listen, no matter how hard you
(14:17):
try, you will never be able toconvince God that you are right
and he is wrong.
And that was the eye-opener thatI needed.
And I'm telling you, I passed myoffice, uh, I found a church
that was open.
It happened to be a Catholicchurch because the doors were
open for Catholic morning mass.
And I just went and I kneeledand I just prayed for the Lord
to forgive me.
And it was one of thosetear-filled moments.
(14:39):
Uh, I don't remember the date.
Some people have their their uhsecond birthday uh in memory,
but I remember it as clearly ascan be.
Uh and then within like I don'tknow, three weeks, my wife was
like, you know, there'ssomething different about you.
Amen.
You know, she's in one of thosethings like you're very
attractive to me right now, andand not in the not in the
(15:00):
physical sense.
I mean, I knew I knew what shemeant.
And that was it.
And then we um we hadn't beengoing to church.
I suck my wife away from churchbecause I didn't want to go.
Uh, we found a method, well, wehad two, our kids were little at
the time, maybe um, maybe sevenand three.
Uh I went to a Methodist churchfor a year.
That wasn't doing it.
(15:20):
We were the uh youngest peoplethere in our late 30s.
Then a friend of mine who I wasdoing karate with uh had said,
Hey, I have this church overhere.
Why don't you think about comingto business?
I came to visit Graceway, thatwas in 2009, and we just uh I
fell in love with it.
Uh the teacher at the time wasum uh Rich uh Dr.
(15:42):
Richard Emmons.
He was a professor at PBU, uhnow Carrie University, and it
was great.
I mean, lively worship.
I came out of the CatholicChurch where it was hymns and
dirges, it wasn't you knowlively worship, and it was
fantastic.
And my wife started to come andwe we found our place.
Um we eventually started servingin Iwana, and that's how we got
(16:03):
integrated in with the church.
SPEAKER_03 (16:06):
Amen.
Wow, that that's absolutelyfantastic, man.
I love it.
That's I mean, the fact that theLord the Lord got a hold of you,
and in in the Catholic Church,see a lot of people on the uh uh
Protestant side, uh they'll theyjust paint with a broad brush,
man, and be like, listen, andthe Lord can use anybody, the
(16:28):
Lord used a donkey to talk tosomebody.
I don't like to paint becausewhen I got married, Katie's
family, they were all they'reall Catholic.
And I actually had conversationswith God.
I said, Lord, why do you have melike marrying why'd you connect
me with a family of Catholics,man?
I mean, really?
They're praying to Mary, they'rethey're you know, they're uh
they they believe in the thethat the body and the blood, you
(16:49):
know, the in the communion, thewhole thing is is you dying
again, and and like I had allthese, I was abrasive, and the
Lord used them to show me thatthey are people behind that
name.
You know, they're they arepeople there are people behind
the name that we broad brushwith a broad brush, oh, those
Catholics or whatever.
And it really straightened meout.
(17:12):
He straightened me out in a lotof ways.
So I have an appreciation for uhfor what you just said.
He just going into it.
SPEAKER_02 (17:18):
I think it's a path of least resistance for people,
is just to play everything witha broad brush.
It's like all those people overthere are bad, so whatever label
you want to want to put on them,because it's easier to do it
that way than to see them as aperson because there takes
there's serious spiritual effortto engage with people.
So, you know, I think it's easywhen we paint with a broad
brush, or we're not even gonnadeal with them over there
because they're Catholic.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
(17:38):
They're they're people just likeeverybody else, and they some of
them may be believers, and someof them a large portion of them
probably aren't, and they theyneed they need to be ministered
to, and we can't just dismissthem because they're in a
they're in a separate branchthat you feel, you know, ah,
they're believers, they'rethey're they're all doomed.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I mean, you can say that aboutnon-believers, and you'll go
(18:00):
after you know non-believers whodon't profess a different type
of Christian faith.
Why do you go after them and notthem?
I said, isn't it all the same?
SPEAKER_03 (18:07):
Good point.
That's an excellent point, man.
I love it.
I also love the fact that you'relistening to you were listening
to uh straight from the heartwith Joe Foch and um because I
know I used to commute downeither 295 or the turnpike,
commuting to Philly fromHamilton, believe it or not.
I was in Hamilton for a while,and uh yeah, I just uh 560 FIL,
(18:31):
I believe, was the AM station,and that's what the Lord used to
actually He really got a hold ofmy heart.
I mean, as a kid I believed, andI I I gave my life to the Lord
as a kid, uh, but I was socompromised in my walk, and I
just had no power, man, in mylife, and uh, and it wasn't it
(18:51):
really until I was commuting toPhilly and hearing daily.
I I was hearing Greg Laurie, uhCharles Stanley, Rao Reese, Joe
Foach, and some others.
Um, but I just was listening tothose, you know, those guys, and
FIL played a big role in that.
(19:12):
Just popping that on, and I justremember it was it was Greg
Lurie, really.
I was on a turnpike uh north ofexit four, right there at a
Philly exit.
If you're gonna go take the BenFranklin Bridge or whatever, and
um I remember pulling over onthe turnpike because Greg Lurie,
he didn't just give anopportunity for uh somebody
who's a non-believer to come toChrist.
(19:35):
He said, and you who you youmaybe you walked with, you've
been walking with the Lord as ayou know, but you you just you
have no no power in your life,and you just you want to be
closer to the Lord and youbelieve, but you just have you
know, you need your unbeliefhelped or whatever.
I forget how he put it, but thatwas me, man.
And I was like, yo, I pulledover.
(19:55):
I was like, Lord, if we're gonnado this, I don't want to be a
rubber band going back and forthand bat I I let's if we're gonna
do it, let's do it.
If you know, I need I need youto I think I my line was I need
you to do it because I've proventhat uh me trying to be the guy
that you that I think you wantme to be is a recipe for failure
(20:17):
over and over.
I have a track record of failingat that.
So if you're God and I believeyou are, I need you to be God
for me, and I need you to do itthrough me.
How about that?
I'm here, and that made a thatmade a gigantic difference, man.
Big difference, man.
We can't do it on our own.
There's no way.
No, you just can't.
And it's I mean, and then youlike the guilt of failing and
(20:39):
letting God down and just beinglike, oh my goodness, here I am
again.
And and it's because we're doingthings in our own strength is
just a recipe for failure,frustration, and I need one more
F.
Let's see.
Uh oh, it'll come to me later.
Trying to I'm trying to do my myrapping thing, but I'm too it's
too too early in the morning tocome up with it.
(21:01):
But um, yeah, it I just I thinkthat even the plays, the plays
that I'm doing, people are like,oh my goodness, how did you how
did you do that for so long?
And how do you remember allthat?
Listen, man, when I say it's notme, I mean that it's not me.
Because I wouldn't be able to doanything without him.
And I don't want to put it to Idon't want to do anything unless
(21:22):
he's gonna go before him do it.
Man, it's so unworth doinganything in your own strength
because you you end upinvariably, you end up tired,
exhausted, beat up, unfulfilled,unsatisfied because you didn't
meet the mark when it's in yourown strength.
So the only thing you have toshow for it is being wiped out,
dead tired, frustrated, and yousteal that guy down.
(21:46):
So hey, it's a win-win when yousay, All right, you know what?
I'm here for you.
I'll do whatever you need me todo.
You help me do it.
They one of the they call mepast the buck.
Pastor, Pastor Buck or Past theBuck.
Because that's what I do.
I pass the buck with uh thebuck's not doesn't stop at my
desk.
It goes, it goes to the Lord'sdesk.
(22:07):
The buck didn't that's thatfamous Bill Clinton line.
The buck never got to my desk.
SPEAKER_02 (22:11):
Well it's it's it's amazing how you you look at your
life before the Lord and thethings you struggled with, and
yeah, your life in the Lord andthe things you're able to
accomplish.
Um, one of the things I uh myhobby or is uh I'm a soccer
referee and I've been doing itfor 10 years, and I've uh I've
been able to advance up thesoccer refereeing hierarchy.
(22:33):
And it's not my own doing, it'sonly on the Lord.
And and I think about how I usedto handle conflict and
challenges before I used to justassert myself and say it's my
way or the highway.
Uh, but that's you know, whenyou're in a when you're in a
conflict, it doesn't always uhit doesn't always work that way.
And you have to always be ableto apply the right approach to
the right situation.
And I can definitely say forsure I would not be able to be
(22:55):
successful in that area of mylife, uh handling the conflict
that constantly that comes withofficiating a high-level mesh,
whether it's baseball, football,basketball, whatever sport, you
have to have that center ofpeace.
And really, I just my relianceon the Lord each and every time
I go out there to officiatereally helps me to manage that
sort of conflict.
Uh, fortunately, here at thechurch, there's there's not much
(23:16):
conflict.
We're we're a pretty um God isdefinitely blessing us each and
every minute.
Um, and there's times peopledon't always get along, uh, but
everyone here seems to be solelyfocused on the Lord.
Uh, there's not there's next tonobody focused on personal gain,
and we're gonna divide thechurch because you want to
change the uh curtain colorsfrom white to right light blue
(23:37):
or something like that.
Um, you just have a unifiedfocus um on God.
And I think that's why God hascontinued uh to bless Graceway
over these last uh these lastthree years.
SPEAKER_03 (23:47):
Amen.
Yeah, tell us tell us a littlebit more about Graceway.
I want when I when I got there,I was like, wow man, these this
is cool, nice sanctuary.
Um, and then Mark told me youguys you guys got that the old
7-Eleven building in the backthat and that's like tell us
about some of the ministriesbecause I was a I was blown away
with Mark was telling me aboutsome of what's going on.
SPEAKER_02 (24:09):
So I want to back can I back up a little bit about
2009 and then we'll kind of gogo forward.
Um so I I came to the church in2009.
I think it's a cool story, and Iwant to be able to encourage uh
your listeners.
Um, I my family started to cometo Graceway in 2009.
Uh, I was the president of amanufacturing company in
Philadelphia, and um I it waspretty successful in my career.
(24:31):
God certainly blessed me.
I believed he placed me in thatjob in Philly to be able to help
people, and I was able to leadsome people to the Lord uh while
I was there, and that wasfantastic.
Actually, one of uh the guysthat was there drew me a
wonderful uh pencil drawing thatI keep here because he's the
first person that I that I seethat I was able to lead to the
Lord, and it just holds um uhjust um he has a phenomenal gift
(24:51):
in how the Lord was using hisgifting.
Um, so anyhow, so about uh 2016,I was asked to uh be part of a
mission trip here at the church.
And when someone asked me to goor if I would be interested in
leading the trip, because my mybackground is in administration
and leadership, forgive me withmy nose.
I just have this itchy.
It's all it's all good.
Um it's all good.
We're not recording videoanyway.
Okay, so that's oh great, thankyou.
(25:14):
So excuse me.
Uh do your thing, it's all good.
Uh they asked me to lead thistrip.
My first response was man, Idon't want to use one of my
weeks of vacation for that.
And then I was like, wait aminute, God give you four weeks
of vacation.
You can use one for him.
It took about a second for me toget my mind or in it right.
So, anyway, I went on this trip.
It was to a um uh to an area uhto a place called Commission on
(25:35):
Compassion in Los Angeles.
We'd supported missionaries whowere there, uh, and this group
ministered to people who wereboth deaf and blind, so they
can't see and they can't hearand they can't speak.
And I'm like, yes, it's fan,it's interesting.
Uh some of them can speakbecause they went deaf later in
life.
There's some vocalizations, asyou would see, like some deaf
people on TV or something likethat.
Uh, but very difficult tocommunicate with them.
(25:57):
But anyhow, when I was there, ithad this the Holy Spirit got a
hold of me and said, You need tobe involved in ministry, you
need to be doing something likethis with your life.
And it was sort of like the sortof like the salvation
experience, fall on your knees,Holy Spirit a hold of you, tears
coming out, and God ordained meto be roomed with our assistant
pastor at the time.
I was explaining to him what wasgoing on.
(26:18):
He says, Why don't you take someseminary classes?
So I never went to Bible school,Bible college.
He says, You don't have to, youcan go into seminary utilizing
your professional experience,and you just have to get caught
up a little bit, which I did.
I enrolled in seminary, and ayear later, a spot opened up
here on staff for um someonewith some administrative uh
background.
Uh, I was hired here at thechurch.
Uh, took um took prayer, but itwas pretty easy decision for us
(26:41):
to make the leap from one job tothe other.
Uh, and we believe that you knowGod had certainly prepared us.
I mean, you can imagine there isum there's an income difference
between the job that I had andthe job that I have now that I
had um that I had.
And um, but God prepared us forthat.
We never we always lived, mywife and I always lived as a
(27:03):
one-income family because um,heaven forbid, something
happened to one of the kids andone of us needed to stay home or
something like that.
So this is part of the thinkingthat God gave us to prepare us
for this moment.
SPEAKER_03 (27:13):
You have a much better life insurance policy.
Yes, with the Lord, it's aneternal, it's eternal life.
That's the name of it, eternallife insurance.
And uh the no deductive.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
100%.
SPEAKER_02 (27:27):
And um uh this the youth pastor left a short time
later, so I started working withthe youth because I knew them
because I had started in Iwana,so I knew those kids.
So it was a really sort ofsmooth transition uh as an
assistant pastor.
And then the senior pastor atthe time asked me, hey, um,
considering creating thisposition of executive pastor to
handle all the executivefunctions at the church.
(27:47):
Would you be interested in doingit?
Again, I just see God's hand inall of that in the preparation
of all the administrativeexperience and executive
experience I had prior, was ableto now apply that to the church.
Uh, and then I finish mymaster's in divinity.
I go to the process of startingmy ordination, and then he says,
uh, I'm quitting in 30 days.
(28:08):
I'm like, uh, all right, what dowe what what what do we do here?
So I'm like, all right, the ideawas that he was going to train
me for about two years, mentorme for about two years, and then
if the church called me, I wouldthen be the senior pastor of the
church.
But now that two years didn'thappen, and I'm like, all right,
I mean, I'm here, I think I'm Ithink I can do it.
(28:29):
Uh but the the elders had otherideas, and uh, you know, I was
hurt.
Uh but you can't you can't arguewith experience.
You can be one thing if theydon't agree with your
personality, or you have maybe alittle bit of a different view
over here, you view a littleleft, they view a little right,
or whatever it is.
But they're like, listen, wewant somebody with five to ten
years of preaching experience,and you just don't have it.
I'm like, I can't argue withthat, still hurt, but yeah, but
(28:51):
yeah, but it's what it was.
Uh so we spent about a yearlooking for a teaching pastor,
and the the board was great.
They're like, listen, we want tohonor you, me, in in the role
that God has called you to be.
So we're not gonna hire a seniorpastor, we're gonna hire someone
who teaches uh in a spark time,and you continue to grow and
pastor the church, which is howthe last uh since 2022, and it's
(29:13):
gone.
We've uh Pastor Scott Taranskyuh came here as our teaching
pastor, another Calvary pastor.
He was uh meeting at one of themiddle schools in the town next
door, but with COVID, they gotkicked out.
Then they were meeting in a barndown the street from my house.
No heat, no electric, nobathrooms, no classroom space,
no floor, no chairs.
(29:33):
So they they would bring in bagchairs on mulch floors and start
up the generator, start up thespace heaters and stuff, and
that was that was his church.
And we're like, Well, listen,you know, we need someone to
teach your people at your churchneed a building.
He's a good teacher.
See what God does with these.
God brought Pastor Scott here in2022.
Well, look at how he's weavingthat we've weaved that whole
(29:56):
thing together.
I mean, no nobody could havethought of this.
I mean, there's only got Couldhave done that.
So a short time later, uh, webecome aware that the 7 Eleven
building behind uh beside us,behind us in that area, um, was
moving out, moving across thestreet.
Now we've been trying to buythis building for 15 years.
Uh the previous pastor wanted totear it down, wanted to expand
(30:17):
parking and stuff like that.
That wasn't the vision that Ihad for that space.
My vision was to create anoutreach center for the
community uh where we can helpthem physically and spiritually
because some people are hesitantto walk into a church.
Yes, right.
You're right, you know,ancillary to the church.
Um so the opportunity became umwe realized that this property
was available.
We couldn't find the owneranywhere.
(30:38):
We did all the tax records, allthe stuff that we were that you
could you could do without beinga realtor.
Uh so we made an announcement atthe church hey, this um uh this
this is an opportunity for us.
We just we cannot find out whothe owner is.
Somebody from the church callsme on Monday, says, I know
somebody who knows somebody.
I'll give you a call in about 10minutes.
Calls me back, bound, you know,one, two, three company.
(30:59):
I'm like, I think that's theowner.
So I called our realtors, like,yep, that's the owner.
And we're like, are you kiddingme?
So we had our realtor, if wewere gonna go to the market, he
estimated at about a milliondollars uh for the building and
and the property.
They came in with 600,000 andchange.
That's what they offered to.
Thank God.
Wow, that's amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (31:21):
Uh it's it just that means God wanted it.
It gets better.
Amen.
Amen.
Well, check it out.
We are gonna continue this nextweek, uh, God willing, if the
creek doesn't rise and if theLord tarries, okay?
Um, so but until then, the Lordbless you and keep you, the Lord
make his face to shine upon youand be gracious to you, the Lord
(31:42):
lift up his countenance upon youand give you peace.
SPEAKER_01 (31:56):
This program was made possible by the Playson
Word family of supporters.
To find out more, check out ourwebsite at plazonword.org.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!