November 7, 2025 • 32 mins
"What happens when a logistics exec surrenders his plans and lets God redirect the entire playbook? Pastor Don Schwing continues with us for a conversation about how leadership, faith, and kindness can transform a whole community."
A ground-level story of faith, logistics, and community impact: how a below-market building, creative member lending, and township favor sparked a food pantry, ESL and GED programs, and multi-service growth rooted in worship, not consumption. We share how a simple mindset shift—“I get to”—reshaped prayer, volunteering, metrics, and long-term planning toward disciple making and future campuses.
• Securing a $1M property for ~$600k through providence and persistence
• Member-financed purchase using IRAs with simple interest
• Township favor and streamlined approvals for rapid buildout
• Volunteer-led renovations saving significant labor costs
• A relational food pantry offering prayer and dignity
• ESL and GED pathways that open doors for the gospel
• Staffing and hospitality designed for disciple making
• Service-time strategy to balance capacity and culture
• Protecting volunteers from burnout with rotations
• Planning for multi-site growth over three to five years
• The “I get to” mindset for prayer and service
• Honoring a 90-year legacy while preparing to multiply
To find out more, check out our website at playsonword.org
Pastor Don Schwing, Executive Pastor - GraceWay Bible Church
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Lord, you know.
You're now listening to play isthe best.
When I was leaving the youth, Iwould say that we met on
Wednesday nights.
And so when you talk to yourfriends and they said, hey, do
you want to get together, wantto hang out tonight?
What do you tell them thatyou're doing?
Do you tell them, well, I haveto go to youth group tonight, or
I'm going to youth grouptonight.
Tonight's my youth group night.
(00:21):
Why don't you come?
You know, what is what is yourrationale?
I can't do this on Sundaybecause I have church.
No, I said, no, I said, youknow, I go to church, you know,
church is what I do.
I have the privilege ofworshiping God.
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
What happens when a logistics exact surrenders his
plans and lets God redirect theentire place of Pastor Don't
continue with us for aconversation about how
leadership, faith, and financecan transform the whole
community.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02):
Hello and welcome to Plays on Word Radio, where we
discussed, analyze, work, andplay on the Word of God.
Oh yeah.
Thank you for joining us on thisexcursion today.
Let's join Pastor Teddy, alsoknown as Fred David Kenny Jr.,
the founder of Plays on WordTheater, as he does a deep dive
into the Word of God.
SPEAKER_03 (01:22):
Amen, amen, and welcome to Plays on Word Radio.
Thank you very much, Katie Kennyand Josh Taylor.
My name is Fred David Kenny Jr.
from Plays on Word.
That's right.
That's me.
And uh we are continuing ourconversation with the Reverend
Don Schwing from Graceway BibleChurch.
Our dear brother Mark Crabtree,who has been on the podcast a
couple times, uh uh is anassistant pastor at Graceway
(01:46):
Bible Church, and so is Dr.
Scott Taransky, who we need tohave on the program at some
point.
God willing, we will have him.
But um, we're gonna continue ourconversation.
SPEAKER_02 (01:56):
Well, we couldn't find the owner anywhere.
We did all the tax records, allthe stuff that we were that you
could you could do without beinga realtor.
Uh so we made an announcement atthe church hey, this um uh this
this is an opportunity for us.
We just we cannot find out whothe owner is.
Somebody from the church callsme on Monday, says, I know
somebody who knows somebody.
I'll give you a call in about 10minutes.
Calls me back, bound, you know,one, two, three company.
(02:19):
I'm like, I think that's theowner.
So I called our realtor, like,yep, that's the owner.
And we're like, we're like, areyou kidding me?
So we had our realtor, if wewere gonna go to the market, he
estimated at about a milliondollars uh for the building and
and the property.
They came in with 600,000 andchange.
That's what they offered to.
(02:40):
Absolutely amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (02:42):
Uh it's it it just god wanted it gets better.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
So we uh banks don't typically like to loan to
churches, only special banks do,because they don't ever want to
foreclose on a church.
And we're not we're not forprofit, we don't run carnivals,
we don't do any of that stuff.
It's just gifts from God.
So essentially our books arealways break essentially
break-even.
Uh, you know, we have a littlebit of positive giving, and that
goes into savings and futuregrowth.
(03:09):
Um, so there was we were reallynot going to be able to get any
sort of advantageous rate.
So Scott had an idea.
Let's appeal to the church.
Let's see if we can get, forround numbers, six people to
donate a hundred thousanddollars to loan the church a
hundred thousand dollars each.
We'll charge five percentinterest non-compounded.
(03:30):
So this way it's it's just theinterest at the end of the year.
It's not, you know, it's notcompounded like on your
mortgage.
Um and you became your owncredit.
We exactly did, and we had sixpeople that had IRAs that
redirected it to the church.
You you put an IRA fund andredirected it to the church, and
(03:50):
we bought the building.
SPEAKER_03 (03:51):
And that you gotta run a book, man.
You gotta write a book, man.
This this is that that that'samazing.
That got where God guides, heprovides.
SPEAKER_02 (03:57):
That was January 2024, and we've been um the
township, the township wanted usto do this, they wanted it to
come to the church.
Uh, and as much as homeowner, Ilive in this, I live in our
town, uh, so as much ashomeowners gripe about the
township and the inspectors,I've never had a problem, but I
realize that some people haveand it's one of those things.
If you're just honest and upfront with them, they're good.
(04:19):
If you try to go around them,they're just gonna get to
they're gonna get upset andthey're gonna really hold you to
every every uh screw, you know,and every whatever.
Uh so we told them what wewanted to do.
We wanted to expand our parking,and they had an issue with the
property line because they weresaying that there's a certain
setback you need to have betweenproperty lines when you butt up
your parking space.
(04:40):
It's just like if you put a shedon your home property, you can't
put it up right against yourproperty line, you have to have
a certain setback.
And they're like, Well, tell youwhat, if you were to combine
those two lots together, youwouldn't need to worry about any
setback at all.
And you could just do whateveryou want to do.
And we're like, okay, greatidea.
Do we need to go to the planningboard, the zoning board?
Do we need to do any of thatsort of stuff?
And they thought about andthey're like, nah, we'll just do
(05:03):
this in the office.
We could it could have been tensof thousands of dollars of
lawyers and and it could stillbe in red tape right now.
It could still be in red tape.
And they're like, no problem.
So they got that that, we gotwe're on a county road, so we
got the approval with thecounty.
Everything just just flowed allcompletely God's hand in all of
(05:23):
this.
So we start we start doing thework.
There's certain things that youtechnically should have permits
for, but the guy who runs thewho's the um the chairman of
that whatever department uhsaid, you're fine.
You don't need a demo permit forthat.
Just go ahead and do your stuff,just be safe when you're doing
it.
All the life safety stuff weneed to do, building fire,
electrical, plumbing, all thestuff we needed to do.
(05:44):
And whenever we ran into ahiccup, they helped us out.
Uh, we have one guy here at thechurch.
He has done almost all of thework by himself.
He's essentially G-seated forus, he's just as all the work.
And say, you know, again,looking at um how God has
blessed us with having thisperson, and he probably there
probably would have been anextra$30,000 in labor.
(06:06):
This guy's just taking onhimself and just volunteered.
So we we have a center.
SPEAKER_03 (06:11):
Man, that's good.
SPEAKER_02 (06:12):
Uh we still we were able, they even allowed us to
get a temporary CO so we couldjust operate a food pantry out
of the back of it.
So we have a food pantry butwe've been running for close to
a year now, uh, out of there.
And it's not a what I would calla drive-thru pantry because
there's some churches that arelike, okay, here's your bag of
groceries, you drop them in thecar and then you leave, and it's
a sort of a feel good.
Uh, but no, we have people comein, we pray with them.
(06:33):
Now we don't uh proselytize, wedon't like hold the food
hostage, but we're like, hey, doyou need to pray for anything?
We have like a nice prayer room,we can sit in there, we can talk
with them.
No, and we've been able to sharethe gospel with several people.
Actually, it was amazing.
The the first time that I wasthere, I was there by myself.
Two women came in, and I Ibelieve they were I I my
impression was that they werelesbians, uh, but I just I just
(06:54):
shared God's truth with them.
I didn't get into theirlifestyle.
I'm like, listen, just readscripture, you need to be
convicted by the Lord uh to comeinto a relationship with Him.
And they they had hardquestions, and you know, I
answered them as best as theLord um had me answer them.
Um and we've been able to dothis with these families.
We've had a couple of familiesthat have started attending
Graceway from the connectionwith the outreach center.
(07:15):
We've had people who havestarted attending Graceway
because we have an outreachcenter, because we are doing
this for the community.
They want to be part of a churchthat is engaging the community
physically and spirituallythrough the food pantry, that's
engaged and spiritually throughEnglish as a second language
classes.
We started out as one smallclass.
We now have three classes of anevangelism-based ESL uh I love
(07:39):
it.
Oh my goodness, I love that.
That's awesome.
What's weird about ESL?
I thought it was, you know, withSpanish to English or Arabic to
English.
No, you just learn English.
You you learn Englishexpressions, but you're learning
scripture and the Bible.
Yeah, you're learning the Biblealong the way, and it's it's
fantastic.
And now we're starting uh GEclasses, uh, which are a little
bit more um, they're they're notas evangelism, they're not
(08:01):
evangelism-based because it's astate uh program, uh, but it's
one-on-one with people here atthe church, and it opens up
pathways to people to share thegospel with them.
SPEAKER_03 (08:10):
So that's been man, if you know, if you went back uh
uh 100 to 200 years, the thetextbook was the Bible, man.
I mean, people learned how toread from the they learned
learned English from the Bible,man.
So hey, I love what's going on,man.
SPEAKER_02 (08:26):
That's awesome.
It's been fantastic.
And our staff has continued, um,our staff has continued to grow.
So as the church church grows,we want to make sure we have the
right support with there, rightsupport for people there.
We are not a um we are not a,I'm gonna say a consumer focused
church.
Um churches, uh a lot of timeschurches are just focused on the
(08:46):
numbers.
Uh they just want, okay, what'smy attendance?
And that's it.
So but yeah, attendance is therehas to be some sort of metric.
I mean, I can't dismiss numbers.
There has to be some sort ofmetric.
There, you know, we're we haveexpenses, so we have to look at
the finances and we have, youknow, what's the attendance
numbers?
But that's only one part of it.
So where is the disciple making?
So how are the baptisms?
How are we have our we have amonthly navigating graceway
(09:08):
class?
So what's the attendance like atthat?
And what's the visitorretention?
Are we adequately ministering topeople?
So we've set up our um ourengagement um uh we call it our
hospitality ministry.
It's our engagement.
So parking, ushering, greeting,uh, welcome area, security, um,
fellowship, all part of tryingto get people engaged in the
(09:29):
body um here at the church.
I've started a uh I've started agrace group.
They're growth groups, we callthem grace groups for Graceway.
I started one just for newbelievers because when you're
new, it's hard for you to want,it's hard for you to jump into a
group that's been a group for 10years.
Oh, Sally's doing good andBobby's doing this.
I have no idea who Sally andBobby are.
(09:50):
So I started a group just forpeople who are newer, just as a
launching pad for them part ofof the the Grace Group uh
ministry.
But we brought wow, uh, webrought uh Pastor Mark on board.
Uh we were seeing a my doctoralwork was in um uh engaging uh
Gen uh trying to engage Gen Zersuh in the church.
(10:14):
Um moving through a coupledifferent uh angles.
Uh but I I we were seeing Gen Zreally, and now Gen Alpha uh
really start to re-engage hereat the church.
We're seeing we were seeing itgrow, and we really felt that we
needed someone to a staff personto take charge there.
Uh so we hired a mark um Mark uhCrabtree, um, who was pastoring
(10:35):
another church as he was closeto winding down from that area
of ministry.
Um and we we had thisopportunity for him here, and
he's taken it and run with it.
He's been so fantastic.
We've moved him from part-timeto full-time um as he tries to
get uh more and more youngfamilies engaged.
Uh so we have a parsonage onsite here.
Um yeah, I don't I don't needit, I have I have my own house.
(10:56):
Um and then at the same time, umPastor Boyd um from Pennsylvania
Alliance Church was leaving, wasstepping aside from the church
and started a ministry uh tohelp refugees.
So these are legal refugeeswho've been um um who've been
exploited or at risk of harm intheir own countries based on a
number of criteria.
(11:16):
They've gone through the entireprocess.
They want to try and help themresettle here.
They want to try and help themresettle here uh in the area.
So we started uh putting refugeefamilies in in our house and our
parsonage.
Um and then I was with that andthe outreach center, and just
the only thing I could I couldway I could describe it is a
spiritual vibe.
(11:37):
I just had the sense thatGraceway was on the cusp of
something huge uh in the area.
In addition to that, ourtownship and our board of ed
building in two different areasare now being there's a new
building being built across thestreet.
So that's like 800 people everyday across the street from us.
New apartments going up.
We got a development, um, we gotan empty lot across the street
here, uh, maybe some some uhsome age restricted housing.
(12:00):
I'm like, okay, God has placedus here at this corner for a
reason.
We're just about in thegeographic and um uh population
center of the town.
We got two high schools, deadcenter.
We got two high schools, 1600kids each, two miles in each
direction.
We got two middle schools ineach direction.
Um, there's like something likeI don't know, 1,400 cars every
day, or some some huge number, Iforget the number, pass in front
(12:21):
of our church every day.
I'm saying God is doingsomething huge here.
I couldn't put my finger on it,but attendance started to grow
and grow.
They're like, all right, man, weneed to do something because we
got way too many at nine o'clockand not enough at 11 or 1045.
I said, we need to, because youknow the the convention is when
your church is about 75% full ofseating, uh is you're considered
(12:42):
full.
We have 200 seats on the floor,and when our attendants at nine
o'clock was 220.
So we're sitting in the lobby,we're we're in the balcony,
we're hanging on the edge, we'reyou know, and if you're a guest
coming in five minutes late, youknow, because you were at the
welcome table or something likethat, you're you're done, you're
sitting in the back of a suddenwhile I'm coming back to a
church.
(13:02):
So we shifted our service timesforward half an hour to 8:30 to
10 and 1015.
And that helped a little bit.
We saw 8:30 was too early forsome people.
Uh so we saw some of that shiftgo to 1015.
But the amazing thing was is westarted to see so many guests
coming in at 1015 that wanted tojust they wanted to, that was
their that was their choice.
(13:22):
And I'm like, this is fantastic.
I was like, well, now we'restill not now now we're over,
we're almost like we're 100% inthe first service, and we're at
75 in the second.
Well, now what do we do?
All right, well, I said, well,okay, well, that's what does
three services look like?
And so through a couple ofdifferent scenarios.
We looked at do we uh do we do aSaturday night service?
Do we do a Sunday night service?
(13:44):
Do we do a midweek service?
You know, there's also thechallenges with parking.
So how do we handle all thisstuff?
SPEAKER_03 (13:49):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
And I came to realize uh that the people who
come to worship at Graceway comefor the Sunday worship
experience, not to consumechurch.
They want to be part of worship.
That's what I was talking about,not being a consumer-based
church.
So they want to be part ofworship, and probably about 40%
of the people who attend oneservice stay for the Sunday
school that's available thatruns concurrent with the next
(14:12):
service.
So at nine, at eight o'clock, wehave 100 people.
50 of them will be staying for a9:30 Sunday school class.
Well, you know, at nine o'clock,maybe we have uh for easy math,
I'm gonna make it 180.
90 will stay for the 1045, andthe same thing, people who are
will stay for the 11 o'clockSunday school class, and the
(14:33):
those that are 11 come early forthe 9:30 Sunday school class.
So it's it's it's about beingpart of the life of the church.
So Saturday night would notaccomplish that.
Saturday night would be forpeople who want to consume
church or just want to, yeah,you know, and we we're we do not
want to be a type of churchwhere people check a box.
Uh, and then a bit of our uh andSunday evening would sort of be
the same thing.
(14:54):
Uh and with our Baptistbackground, we're not a Baptist
church, we're anon-denominational independent
church, but with our Baptistbackground, we used to have
Sunday night church, and Sundaynight was considered an
extension of Sunday morning.
So that really wouldn't workeither.
And it would be very difficultfor the staff and the volunteers
to go home and get back, and wegot stuff started up, we got to
stop.
(15:14):
Like it's these are just let'sjust let's just do it here.
So we had to make it anadjustment we adjusted a little
bit.
We did have to eliminate oneworship song to allow for the
time because you have to havethe clearance between one
service getting out and theother service coming in.
Right.
But the interesting thing,notoriously, at Graceway, 80% of
the people come in five minuteslate.
I don't know why that is, butwhen we but when I when we start
(15:37):
out in the morning and there'syou know 30 people and then we
turn around and then they'reafter the first song, there's
80.
SPEAKER_03 (15:43):
I'm like, what's going on?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's amazing.
You know what?
I'm listening to you, man, andI'm like, I'm seeing how the
Lord utilized your logisticsbackground, probably even
supervised it, you know, yourlogistics background um for the
specific time and place he'sbrought you to right now, where
(16:06):
like you're probably drawing onthings that are just second
nature to you, but it's becauseyou've been trained up and like
Joseph.
Joseph was trained up inlogistics way before he worked
for Pharaoh.
He was he was a logistics guy.
He was he was dealing with okay,this is how you manage things
and making things, you know, howto handle not just people but
(16:27):
budgets and everything else.
SPEAKER_02 (16:28):
And it's such it is a prior to becoming a you know
the pastor here, um, one of thethings I had thought God may be
using me for is to utilize mylogistics to help churches.
Because there's lots of pastorsthat know how to pastor and know
how to um preach and care forpeople, but they don't know how
to run an organization.
Maybe that would be God would beusing me for.
(16:49):
And uh when I told PastorEmmons, our previous pastor,
he's like, no, that's not God'splan for you.
God has plans for you righthere.
I'm like, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (16:57):
Amen.
Yeah, man, that's that'samazing.
You know, and um I don't know ifI I think I might have mentioned
it because the tour we were onand everything's a blur.
I think I mentioned it that Iwent to Scott's church back in
2001.
When he was in Ewing?
Uh was it Ewing?
Uh yeah, the um it was it was ata school.
(17:20):
It was in um Robinsville, yeah,yeah, yeah.
Uh and um I went there and itwas before it was before 9-11
actually happened.
Yeah, before 9-11 happened, andI remember um just going there
and how important it was to havesomeone um I was getting out the
(17:46):
car and I was I was I got outthe car and I said, nah, I'm
going back to the I'm not, I'mnot going.
Lord put on my heart I needed tobe in a fellowship.
You know, being a Lone Rangerinternet church guy streaming or
watching Charles Stanley on TVis that's uh one thing, but it's
not the same as being in afellowship.
Yeah.
(18:06):
And um, so the Lord uh you know,he put on my heart to do that,
and so I ended up that's how Imet Scott Taransky uh 25 years
ago or whatever it was.
And you know, it's it's justamazing to hear the story of
what's happening with you andyou guys at Graceway and and
what the Lord is is uh doing.
(18:28):
And it's probably just the thetip of the iceberg as far as
what he has planned.
SPEAKER_02 (18:33):
I mean part part of the thing, you know, we we need
to think three and five yearsout.
So what does I mean our ouragain, not just focusing on the
numbers, but you know, it'sbecause you have to for
capacity.
Uh we're we're up 13% in in thelast uh six weeks.
Yeah, so I I and we some ofthat's gonna tail off.
I mean, that's that's just howthose things happen, but we're
(18:56):
seeing solid retention um justin the last six weeks.
Okay, so what and these are andthen what so these are people
that's go ahead, Teddy.
SPEAKER_03 (19:05):
No, I was just saying, uh I was just saying
these are people that are youknow probably seeking the Lord
and and just seeking fellowshipand you know yeah, uh a hundred
percent.
SPEAKER_02 (19:13):
And um, where was my thought going?
Oh yeah now three to five yearsout.
So okay, so if we continue atthis rate, we can't do four
services.
So so what is so what does thatlook like?
So what does what does a secondlocation look like?
So we want to split the church,but where do we want to plant a
campus or another site?
So do we um yeah, so I you haveto look geographically.
(19:34):
Well, where do you have a pocketof people?
So there's a couple of areasthat we're looking we're looking
at around here in a couple oftowns over where we know we have
maybe 30 or 40 people we coulduse to start planning that
church, and then you bring apastor on board and you try to
do your own live worship, uh,and then you just bring the live
sermon over and you work on thelogistic, the technical aspect
there.
Uh, but we, you know, you alwaysneed to be looking several steps
(19:57):
ahead.
You can't be anchored into theidea and cement because the Lord
may lead you someplace else, butyou need to be thinking about
these things so you can beprepared, like, okay, this is
where I think the Lord isleading me at this moment, you
know, and so you can be preparedto act.
SPEAKER_03 (20:11):
How how did the the servants that were serving, um,
how are they uh how did theyadjust when you when you you
know started doing more you knowservices?
Uh because usually that's agrind on all everybody involved.
SPEAKER_02 (20:28):
Fortunately, we're we're we are again with God's
blessings, we're not a needychurch.
Uh so we have no one, there's acouple people who choose to do
all three services, but we don'thave anybody serving three
services.
Praise God, wow.
That's called okay.
Let me modify that.
The praise team.
Yeah, so the praise team, theyplay the first, they they play
(20:48):
the first service, secondservice, and the opening of the
third, and then they go home.
So it is the musicians, butthere's um they rotate, so it's
not the same musicians everyweek.
So it may be one week they havetheir three services and the
next week they have off, uh,sort of thing.
But for the most part,everything is is two services.
SPEAKER_03 (21:06):
Oh, praise God.
That's that's so importantbecause I've seen I've seen
people that have just a desireto serve the Lord and a heart
for God.
SPEAKER_02 (21:15):
I've seen them actually get burnt, fried, and
just and that's why, and andthen um Mark's gonna be taking
over the the hospitality, allthe stuff sort of out front.
And you need to depending on howyou like anything, depending on
how you frame things, you getpeople excited about serving.
We don't ever say we need yourhelp.
There's an opportunity for youto serve the Lord and bless the
(21:37):
people around you.
When you serve the Lord, you'reblessed and you bless others.
That's the way that you presentit.
And that's that's the truth.
I'm not we're not sugarcoatingit or selling it, but you have
to present it for what it reallyis.
Yes, there is a need, but thatis not the primary opportunity
for the primary purpose ofsomeone serving isn't to fulfill
a need.
It's then to be able to blessthe bless the uh bless others
(21:59):
and bless themselves.
That's part of the disciplemaking.
We are a disciple-making church,and that that um uh that
message, that emphasis has topermeate through absolutely
every ministry.
SPEAKER_03 (22:11):
Yeah, I I uh I agree 100%.
I recently um explained to Idon't know if it was the whole
congregation or uh just a groupof uh folks from our church that
I was watching a an exercise, abodybuilding video uh lifting
weights.
I that's one of my passions.
(22:32):
I like to you know lift weightsand stuff like that.
So this one guy who's been doingit for 40 some years, Michael
Hearn, he's a um he's not evenlike a competitive bodybuilder,
he's just been in movies andhe's just an athlete.
He uh somebody asked him, hesaid, how how can you do this
for 40 years and still be inshape and still be excited about
(22:53):
going to the gym and workingout?
And he said, Listen, man, youknow, maybe 40 years ago I had a
mindset shift from I have to goto the gym to I get to go to the
gym.
And that little change made sucha difference that I actually
(23:14):
wait a second, I get to go tothe gym.
If I take it that way, it's nota burden.
And I said, you know what, I wI'm gonna I need to apply that
to prayer.
Let me apply that to prayer.
Uh I I have to oh I have to gopray.
Or wait a second, I get to I getto go pray if I just that little
few degrees change there makessuch a big difference.
(23:36):
And I think I think it appliesto service as well.
It can apply to certain kind ofwhat you're saying as far as you
know we're we're not not tryingto solicit everybody saying we
need your help, or I have to gohelp.
If I get to go help, that's adifferent approach.
I I actually get to help.
Wait a second.
SPEAKER_02 (23:55):
So 100%.
Excuse me, when I was leadingthe youth, one of the things I I
would say then we met onWednesday nights, and so when
you talk to your friends inschool and they said, Hey, do
you want to get together, wantto hang out tonight?
What do you tell them thatyou're doing?
Do you tell them, well, I haveto go to youth group tonight or
youth group tonight?
So tonight's my youth grouptonight.
Why don't you come?
(24:16):
You know, what is what is yourrationale?
I I can't, I can't, you know, Ican't do this on Sunday because
I have church.
No, I said, you know, I go tochurch, you know, church is what
I do.
I have the privilege ofworshiping God.
SPEAKER_03 (24:29):
I get to go worship God, man.
I go, are you kidding me?
That's just such a game changer.
SPEAKER_02 (24:34):
It's amazing because I when I first uh you know, when
I first came to to know theLord, I I was just starting out
in my uh my refereeing and Iwould ref on Sundays and skip
church and stuff like that.
And then I I my mindset sort ofstarted shifting.
I'm like, well, no, I'm notdisappointed because I can't
ref.
I was like, no, I want to go tochurch.
I want to be saved, I want to beworshiping God.
(24:57):
I want I want to just come toHim.
So now it's like not even I'mlike, I could have the best,
they could be offering me thebest possible highest level
match, the feather my cap for myreferee and career.
I'll be like, yeah, I'm good.
I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, I'mgonna go right, right, right,
right.
SPEAKER_03 (25:11):
It reminds me of uh the psalms that say uh delight
yourself in the in the Lord andHe'll give you the desire of
your heart.
So when you when you delightyourself in Him, He becomes the
desire of your heart.
It just makes it makes sense.
You delight yourself in the Somepeople are like the well, if I
delight myself in the Lord, thenthen He's gonna give me the
desire of my heart, then He'llhave me win the lottery, or have
(25:34):
bring me my wife or your husbandor this and that.
And really He becomes the desireof your heart, and it's like
you're a lot of the things thatyou did want start to shift and
move move out of the way.
And uh He's faithful to give youmore of Himself, which is
amazing.
So well, I man, dude, Iappreciate you taking the time
(25:57):
out of your busy schedule todayfrom Graceway.
All of us have just heard noteven the tip of the iceberg of
what's happening out there.
Um maybe we can come back and uhand do another interview with
you guys.
I'd love I I still need to talkto Scott Taransky too, get
brought up to speed on himbecause I know that he and Mark
they were in Africa.
(26:18):
Yeah, a couple years ago, yeah.
Yeah, wow, I yeah, I rememberthat, and that's when uh you
know uh Mark, it was just funnyhow I I met Mark um and uh we
got to talking, and he was like,Yeah, he mentioned Scott, and I
was like, wait, you know ScottTaransky had I haven't heard
that name in a while, man.
So anyway, we just want to Iwant to thank you for being on
(26:40):
Plays On Word Radio.
We're gonna put uh a link toGraceway um uh on our in the
show notes.
And if anybody is in theHamilton, Trenton,
Robbinsville-ish area, um anyother area, am I missing
something?
You know Largeville, that'sthat's where Scott School, I
think the school was inLargeville at when I went to it
(27:03):
was right before 9-11.
Um if anybody's in that area,absolutely, but I tell you what,
if you decide to go visit thischurch, you better not show up
five minutes later.
You're not gonna you're gonnayou're not gonna get in because
uh the Lord is doing somethingreally special there.
And I'm just I pray, man, thatthe next time we talk, uh the
(27:25):
Lord's even gonna have even moreof a great testimony of what
he's doing in your livesindividually and corporately as
a body.
You know, I was reading a littlebit about the history of your uh
of of Graceway, man.
It was like a tent revival or atent that was set up back in the
30s.
SPEAKER_02 (27:42):
1933, it was when they first started meeting,
officially became incorporatedin 34.
But the original name was thenon-sectarian Christian
Association of New Jersey.
So when I throw when I when I domy when I do the monthly uh
intro to Graceway, navigatingGraceway class, I tell people
just look at what it means,non-sectarian, it's no sect, no
group, so not especially it wasthe first non-denominational.
(28:04):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (28:05):
That's a that's there you guys were the original
non-denominational church.
SPEAKER_02 (28:08):
I love it.
And Bible teaching, and itstayed the same, just
consistently teaching throughthe Bible.
Amen.
That's the key.
A couple name changes betweenthen and now, but it's the same
same principle, 91 years later.
SPEAKER_03 (28:20):
And see, anytime I go to an old established church
like that, I always like towonder and ponder.
You know, you think about theold saints that were that were
there, think about their prayersfor what the Lord would would
do, and then you realize, wait asecond, you're walking in the
(28:40):
you are the answer.
Lord is using you to answerprayers that were uttered 80
years ago.
Or you know what I mean?
And it's like, wait a minute,man, what uh here I thought I
had something to do with this,but you know, there some old
saint is that we're gonna meetin glorious, is saying thank you
to the Lord right now.
Lord, thank you for it.
It's a little later than Iexpected, but I thank you for
(29:02):
answering the prayer.
And so you're writing the thewave of prayer.
SPEAKER_02 (29:05):
Um we moved here, we moved from Trenton to here in
62.
So they they moved out of thetent into a they rented a
building.
But uh we we had our 90thanniversary celebration last
year.
Uh, we had two people who wereat the church in Trenton, and
they're like, I yeah, I didn'texpect oh ho ho ho that's
something right now.
SPEAKER_03 (29:26):
Oh my goodness, wow, man.
SPEAKER_02 (29:28):
That's grown and expanded, and all the stuff that
the Lord is doing here.
It's just what an answer toprayer.
SPEAKER_03 (29:33):
Oh, praise God, man.
We might have to interview them,man.
We we might have to interviewthem just to see, you know what
I mean.
That's that's worth justinterviewing, getting them to
talk about what was it like backthen.
And do they remember any of theprayers?
Because, you know, I just I Ithink about the Lord's time is
way different than ours, and wesometimes get impatient, like,
uh, he's not answering theprayer.
(29:55):
He might be like, Hold on, man,I got a 60 year gap going on
here for you.
But uh God's faithful.
So yeah, man, we definitely weabsolutely um we we definitely
appreciate you.
Pastor Don from Graceway BibleChurch in Hamilton, I want to
say.
But my thoughts are like it goesbeyond Hamilton.
(30:16):
I'm sure you have people frombeyond, you know, people from
Trenton, maybe some people fromBurlington, might even be able
to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (30:20):
Burlington, uh, as far north as Pennington, uh,
which is we have some peoplethat drive 30, 30 minutes to
come to church.
I have one guy that's lives downby Atlantic City.
Uh he's coming up here, heardabout Graceway.
They're looking for a new churchand they're planting themselves.
Him and his wife want to plantthemselves around their church
for the future, and he's comingup.
SPEAKER_03 (30:38):
Praise God.
Well, may you guys continue tohave an impact on the community
for Christ, and may he justsmile upon you.
And uh man, I'm just maybe we'llmaybe we'll talk.
I I need to learn some moreabout logistics, man.
You got the experience on thelogistics there and the the the
overall management aspectbecause that's where that's a uh
I don't want to say a blind spotfor me, but I don't have the
(31:00):
experience, you know, that Iwish I did.
And I was like, I know a guy Ican probably call and ask what
he thinks.
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
If you want to pick my brain, give me a call
anytime.
SPEAKER_03 (31:08):
I appreciate it, man.
Well, God bless you, man.
We love you, and and at somepoint we're gonna make our way
back, and uh, we'll show you ourPete quit.
That sounds great.
I look forward to it.
Yeah, amen.
Amen.
Well, thank you very much,Pastor Reverend Don Schwing from
Graceway Bible Church.
Shout out to Dr.
Scott Taransky and my man, MarkCrabtree, everybody over at
(31:32):
Graceway Bible Church over therein New Jersey.
That's all we have time fortoday.
God willing, if the creek don'trise, we'll be back next week.
But until then, the Lord blessyou and keep you.
The Lord make his face to shineupon you and be gracious to you.
SPEAKER_01 (31:46):
The Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give
you peace, this program was madepossible by the Playson Word
family of supporters.
To find out more, check out ourwebsite at playsonword.org.
Lord, you know.
You're now listening to play isthe best.
When I was leaving the youth, Iwould say that we met on
Wednesday nights.
And so when you talk to yourfriends and they said, hey, do
you want to get together, wantto hang out tonight?
What do you tell them thatyou're doing?
Do you tell them, well, I haveto go to youth group tonight, or
I'm going to youth grouptonight.
Tonight's my youth group night.
(00:21):
Why don't you come?
You know, what is what is yourrationale?
I can't do this on Sundaybecause I have church.
No, I said, no, I said, youknow, I go to church, you know,
church is what I do.
I have the privilege ofworshiping God.
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
What happens when a logistics exact surrenders his
plans and lets God redirect theentire place of Pastor Don't
continue with us for aconversation about how
leadership, faith, and financecan transform the whole
community.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02):
Hello and welcome to Plays on Word Radio, where we
discussed, analyze, work, andplay on the Word of God.
Oh yeah.
Thank you for joining us on thisexcursion today.
Let's join Pastor Teddy, alsoknown as Fred David Kenny Jr.,
the founder of Plays on WordTheater, as he does a deep dive
into the Word of God.
SPEAKER_03 (01:22):
Amen, amen, and welcome to Plays on Word Radio.
Thank you very much, Katie Kennyand Josh Taylor.
My name is Fred David Kenny Jr.
from Plays on Word.
That's right.
That's me.
And uh we are continuing ourconversation with the Reverend
Don Schwing from Graceway BibleChurch.
Our dear brother Mark Crabtree,who has been on the podcast a
couple times, uh uh is anassistant pastor at Graceway
(01:46):
Bible Church, and so is Dr.
Scott Taransky, who we need tohave on the program at some
point.
God willing, we will have him.
But um, we're gonna continue ourconversation.
SPEAKER_02 (01:56):
Well, we couldn't find the owner anywhere.
We did all the tax records, allthe stuff that we were that you
could you could do without beinga realtor.
Uh so we made an announcement atthe church hey, this um uh this
this is an opportunity for us.
We just we cannot find out whothe owner is.
Somebody from the church callsme on Monday, says, I know
somebody who knows somebody.
I'll give you a call in about 10minutes.
Calls me back, bound, you know,one, two, three company.
(02:19):
I'm like, I think that's theowner.
So I called our realtor, like,yep, that's the owner.
And we're like, we're like, areyou kidding me?
So we had our realtor, if wewere gonna go to the market, he
estimated at about a milliondollars uh for the building and
and the property.
They came in with 600,000 andchange.
That's what they offered to.
(02:40):
Absolutely amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (02:42):
Uh it's it it just god wanted it gets better.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
So we uh banks don't typically like to loan to
churches, only special banks do,because they don't ever want to
foreclose on a church.
And we're not we're not forprofit, we don't run carnivals,
we don't do any of that stuff.
It's just gifts from God.
So essentially our books arealways break essentially
break-even.
Uh, you know, we have a littlebit of positive giving, and that
goes into savings and futuregrowth.
(03:09):
Um, so there was we were reallynot going to be able to get any
sort of advantageous rate.
So Scott had an idea.
Let's appeal to the church.
Let's see if we can get, forround numbers, six people to
donate a hundred thousanddollars to loan the church a
hundred thousand dollars each.
We'll charge five percentinterest non-compounded.
(03:30):
So this way it's it's just theinterest at the end of the year.
It's not, you know, it's notcompounded like on your
mortgage.
Um and you became your owncredit.
We exactly did, and we had sixpeople that had IRAs that
redirected it to the church.
You you put an IRA fund andredirected it to the church, and
(03:50):
we bought the building.
SPEAKER_03 (03:51):
And that you gotta run a book, man.
You gotta write a book, man.
This this is that that that'samazing.
That got where God guides, heprovides.
SPEAKER_02 (03:57):
That was January 2024, and we've been um the
township, the township wanted usto do this, they wanted it to
come to the church.
Uh, and as much as homeowner, Ilive in this, I live in our
town, uh, so as much ashomeowners gripe about the
township and the inspectors,I've never had a problem, but I
realize that some people haveand it's one of those things.
If you're just honest and upfront with them, they're good.
(04:19):
If you try to go around them,they're just gonna get to
they're gonna get upset andthey're gonna really hold you to
every every uh screw, you know,and every whatever.
Uh so we told them what wewanted to do.
We wanted to expand our parking,and they had an issue with the
property line because they weresaying that there's a certain
setback you need to have betweenproperty lines when you butt up
your parking space.
(04:40):
It's just like if you put a shedon your home property, you can't
put it up right against yourproperty line, you have to have
a certain setback.
And they're like, Well, tell youwhat, if you were to combine
those two lots together, youwouldn't need to worry about any
setback at all.
And you could just do whateveryou want to do.
And we're like, okay, greatidea.
Do we need to go to the planningboard, the zoning board?
Do we need to do any of thatsort of stuff?
And they thought about andthey're like, nah, we'll just do
(05:03):
this in the office.
We could it could have been tensof thousands of dollars of
lawyers and and it could stillbe in red tape right now.
It could still be in red tape.
And they're like, no problem.
So they got that that, we gotwe're on a county road, so we
got the approval with thecounty.
Everything just just flowed allcompletely God's hand in all of
(05:23):
this.
So we start we start doing thework.
There's certain things that youtechnically should have permits
for, but the guy who runs thewho's the um the chairman of
that whatever department uhsaid, you're fine.
You don't need a demo permit forthat.
Just go ahead and do your stuff,just be safe when you're doing
it.
All the life safety stuff weneed to do, building fire,
electrical, plumbing, all thestuff we needed to do.
(05:44):
And whenever we ran into ahiccup, they helped us out.
Uh, we have one guy here at thechurch.
He has done almost all of thework by himself.
He's essentially G-seated forus, he's just as all the work.
And say, you know, again,looking at um how God has
blessed us with having thisperson, and he probably there
probably would have been anextra$30,000 in labor.
(06:06):
This guy's just taking onhimself and just volunteered.
So we we have a center.
SPEAKER_03 (06:11):
Man, that's good.
SPEAKER_02 (06:12):
Uh we still we were able, they even allowed us to
get a temporary CO so we couldjust operate a food pantry out
of the back of it.
So we have a food pantry butwe've been running for close to
a year now, uh, out of there.
And it's not a what I would calla drive-thru pantry because
there's some churches that arelike, okay, here's your bag of
groceries, you drop them in thecar and then you leave, and it's
a sort of a feel good.
Uh, but no, we have people comein, we pray with them.
(06:33):
Now we don't uh proselytize, wedon't like hold the food
hostage, but we're like, hey, doyou need to pray for anything?
We have like a nice prayer room,we can sit in there, we can talk
with them.
No, and we've been able to sharethe gospel with several people.
Actually, it was amazing.
The the first time that I wasthere, I was there by myself.
Two women came in, and I Ibelieve they were I I my
impression was that they werelesbians, uh, but I just I just
(06:54):
shared God's truth with them.
I didn't get into theirlifestyle.
I'm like, listen, just readscripture, you need to be
convicted by the Lord uh to comeinto a relationship with Him.
And they they had hardquestions, and you know, I
answered them as best as theLord um had me answer them.
Um and we've been able to dothis with these families.
We've had a couple of familiesthat have started attending
Graceway from the connectionwith the outreach center.
(07:15):
We've had people who havestarted attending Graceway
because we have an outreachcenter, because we are doing
this for the community.
They want to be part of a churchthat is engaging the community
physically and spirituallythrough the food pantry, that's
engaged and spiritually throughEnglish as a second language
classes.
We started out as one smallclass.
We now have three classes of anevangelism-based ESL uh I love
(07:39):
it.
Oh my goodness, I love that.
That's awesome.
What's weird about ESL?
I thought it was, you know, withSpanish to English or Arabic to
English.
No, you just learn English.
You you learn Englishexpressions, but you're learning
scripture and the Bible.
Yeah, you're learning the Biblealong the way, and it's it's
fantastic.
And now we're starting uh GEclasses, uh, which are a little
bit more um, they're they're notas evangelism, they're not
(08:01):
evangelism-based because it's astate uh program, uh, but it's
one-on-one with people here atthe church, and it opens up
pathways to people to share thegospel with them.
SPEAKER_03 (08:10):
So that's been man, if you know, if you went back uh
uh 100 to 200 years, the thetextbook was the Bible, man.
I mean, people learned how toread from the they learned
learned English from the Bible,man.
So hey, I love what's going on,man.
SPEAKER_02 (08:26):
That's awesome.
It's been fantastic.
And our staff has continued, um,our staff has continued to grow.
So as the church church grows,we want to make sure we have the
right support with there, rightsupport for people there.
We are not a um we are not a,I'm gonna say a consumer focused
church.
Um churches, uh a lot of timeschurches are just focused on the
(08:46):
numbers.
Uh they just want, okay, what'smy attendance?
And that's it.
So but yeah, attendance is therehas to be some sort of metric.
I mean, I can't dismiss numbers.
There has to be some sort ofmetric.
There, you know, we're we haveexpenses, so we have to look at
the finances and we have, youknow, what's the attendance
numbers?
But that's only one part of it.
So where is the disciple making?
So how are the baptisms?
How are we have our we have amonthly navigating graceway
(09:08):
class?
So what's the attendance like atthat?
And what's the visitorretention?
Are we adequately ministering topeople?
So we've set up our um ourengagement um uh we call it our
hospitality ministry.
It's our engagement.
So parking, ushering, greeting,uh, welcome area, security, um,
fellowship, all part of tryingto get people engaged in the
(09:29):
body um here at the church.
I've started a uh I've started agrace group.
They're growth groups, we callthem grace groups for Graceway.
I started one just for newbelievers because when you're
new, it's hard for you to want,it's hard for you to jump into a
group that's been a group for 10years.
Oh, Sally's doing good andBobby's doing this.
I have no idea who Sally andBobby are.
(09:50):
So I started a group just forpeople who are newer, just as a
launching pad for them part ofof the the Grace Group uh
ministry.
But we brought wow, uh, webrought uh Pastor Mark on board.
Uh we were seeing a my doctoralwork was in um uh engaging uh
Gen uh trying to engage Gen Zersuh in the church.
(10:14):
Um moving through a coupledifferent uh angles.
Uh but I I we were seeing Gen Zreally, and now Gen Alpha uh
really start to re-engage hereat the church.
We're seeing we were seeing itgrow, and we really felt that we
needed someone to a staff personto take charge there.
Uh so we hired a mark um Mark uhCrabtree, um, who was pastoring
(10:35):
another church as he was closeto winding down from that area
of ministry.
Um and we we had thisopportunity for him here, and
he's taken it and run with it.
He's been so fantastic.
We've moved him from part-timeto full-time um as he tries to
get uh more and more youngfamilies engaged.
Uh so we have a parsonage onsite here.
Um yeah, I don't I don't needit, I have I have my own house.
(10:56):
Um and then at the same time, umPastor Boyd um from Pennsylvania
Alliance Church was leaving, wasstepping aside from the church
and started a ministry uh tohelp refugees.
So these are legal refugeeswho've been um um who've been
exploited or at risk of harm intheir own countries based on a
number of criteria.
(11:16):
They've gone through the entireprocess.
They want to try and help themresettle here.
They want to try and help themresettle here uh in the area.
So we started uh putting refugeefamilies in in our house and our
parsonage.
Um and then I was with that andthe outreach center, and just
the only thing I could I couldway I could describe it is a
spiritual vibe.
(11:37):
I just had the sense thatGraceway was on the cusp of
something huge uh in the area.
In addition to that, ourtownship and our board of ed
building in two different areasare now being there's a new
building being built across thestreet.
So that's like 800 people everyday across the street from us.
New apartments going up.
We got a development, um, we gotan empty lot across the street
here, uh, maybe some some uhsome age restricted housing.
(12:00):
I'm like, okay, God has placedus here at this corner for a
reason.
We're just about in thegeographic and um uh population
center of the town.
We got two high schools, deadcenter.
We got two high schools, 1600kids each, two miles in each
direction.
We got two middle schools ineach direction.
Um, there's like something likeI don't know, 1,400 cars every
day, or some some huge number, Iforget the number, pass in front
(12:21):
of our church every day.
I'm saying God is doingsomething huge here.
I couldn't put my finger on it,but attendance started to grow
and grow.
They're like, all right, man, weneed to do something because we
got way too many at nine o'clockand not enough at 11 or 1045.
I said, we need to, because youknow the the convention is when
your church is about 75% full ofseating, uh is you're considered
(12:42):
full.
We have 200 seats on the floor,and when our attendants at nine
o'clock was 220.
So we're sitting in the lobby,we're we're in the balcony,
we're hanging on the edge, we'reyou know, and if you're a guest
coming in five minutes late, youknow, because you were at the
welcome table or something likethat, you're you're done, you're
sitting in the back of a suddenwhile I'm coming back to a
church.
(13:02):
So we shifted our service timesforward half an hour to 8:30 to
10 and 1015.
And that helped a little bit.
We saw 8:30 was too early forsome people.
Uh so we saw some of that shiftgo to 1015.
But the amazing thing was is westarted to see so many guests
coming in at 1015 that wanted tojust they wanted to, that was
their that was their choice.
(13:22):
And I'm like, this is fantastic.
I was like, well, now we'restill not now now we're over,
we're almost like we're 100% inthe first service, and we're at
75 in the second.
Well, now what do we do?
All right, well, I said, well,okay, well, that's what does
three services look like?
And so through a couple ofdifferent scenarios.
We looked at do we uh do we do aSaturday night service?
Do we do a Sunday night service?
(13:44):
Do we do a midweek service?
You know, there's also thechallenges with parking.
So how do we handle all thisstuff?
SPEAKER_03 (13:49):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
And I came to realize uh that the people who
come to worship at Graceway comefor the Sunday worship
experience, not to consumechurch.
They want to be part of worship.
That's what I was talking about,not being a consumer-based
church.
So they want to be part ofworship, and probably about 40%
of the people who attend oneservice stay for the Sunday
school that's available thatruns concurrent with the next
(14:12):
service.
So at nine, at eight o'clock, wehave 100 people.
50 of them will be staying for a9:30 Sunday school class.
Well, you know, at nine o'clock,maybe we have uh for easy math,
I'm gonna make it 180.
90 will stay for the 1045, andthe same thing, people who are
will stay for the 11 o'clockSunday school class, and the
(14:33):
those that are 11 come early forthe 9:30 Sunday school class.
So it's it's it's about beingpart of the life of the church.
So Saturday night would notaccomplish that.
Saturday night would be forpeople who want to consume
church or just want to, yeah,you know, and we we're we do not
want to be a type of churchwhere people check a box.
Uh, and then a bit of our uh andSunday evening would sort of be
the same thing.
(14:54):
Uh and with our Baptistbackground, we're not a Baptist
church, we're anon-denominational independent
church, but with our Baptistbackground, we used to have
Sunday night church, and Sundaynight was considered an
extension of Sunday morning.
So that really wouldn't workeither.
And it would be very difficultfor the staff and the volunteers
to go home and get back, and wegot stuff started up, we got to
stop.
(15:14):
Like it's these are just let'sjust let's just do it here.
So we had to make it anadjustment we adjusted a little
bit.
We did have to eliminate oneworship song to allow for the
time because you have to havethe clearance between one
service getting out and theother service coming in.
Right.
But the interesting thing,notoriously, at Graceway, 80% of
the people come in five minuteslate.
I don't know why that is, butwhen we but when I when we start
(15:37):
out in the morning and there'syou know 30 people and then we
turn around and then they'reafter the first song, there's
80.
SPEAKER_03 (15:43):
I'm like, what's going on?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's amazing.
You know what?
I'm listening to you, man, andI'm like, I'm seeing how the
Lord utilized your logisticsbackground, probably even
supervised it, you know, yourlogistics background um for the
specific time and place he'sbrought you to right now, where
(16:06):
like you're probably drawing onthings that are just second
nature to you, but it's becauseyou've been trained up and like
Joseph.
Joseph was trained up inlogistics way before he worked
for Pharaoh.
He was he was a logistics guy.
He was he was dealing with okay,this is how you manage things
and making things, you know, howto handle not just people but
(16:27):
budgets and everything else.
SPEAKER_02 (16:28):
And it's such it is a prior to becoming a you know
the pastor here, um, one of thethings I had thought God may be
using me for is to utilize mylogistics to help churches.
Because there's lots of pastorsthat know how to pastor and know
how to um preach and care forpeople, but they don't know how
to run an organization.
Maybe that would be God would beusing me for.
(16:49):
And uh when I told PastorEmmons, our previous pastor,
he's like, no, that's not God'splan for you.
God has plans for you righthere.
I'm like, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (16:57):
Amen.
Yeah, man, that's that'samazing.
You know, and um I don't know ifI I think I might have mentioned
it because the tour we were onand everything's a blur.
I think I mentioned it that Iwent to Scott's church back in
2001.
When he was in Ewing?
Uh was it Ewing?
Uh yeah, the um it was it was ata school.
(17:20):
It was in um Robinsville, yeah,yeah, yeah.
Uh and um I went there and itwas before it was before 9-11
actually happened.
Yeah, before 9-11 happened, andI remember um just going there
and how important it was to havesomeone um I was getting out the
(17:46):
car and I was I was I got outthe car and I said, nah, I'm
going back to the I'm not, I'mnot going.
Lord put on my heart I needed tobe in a fellowship.
You know, being a Lone Rangerinternet church guy streaming or
watching Charles Stanley on TVis that's uh one thing, but it's
not the same as being in afellowship.
Yeah.
(18:06):
And um, so the Lord uh you know,he put on my heart to do that,
and so I ended up that's how Imet Scott Taransky uh 25 years
ago or whatever it was.
And you know, it's it's justamazing to hear the story of
what's happening with you andyou guys at Graceway and and
what the Lord is is uh doing.
(18:28):
And it's probably just the thetip of the iceberg as far as
what he has planned.
SPEAKER_02 (18:33):
I mean part part of the thing, you know, we we need
to think three and five yearsout.
So what does I mean our ouragain, not just focusing on the
numbers, but you know, it'sbecause you have to for
capacity.
Uh we're we're up 13% in in thelast uh six weeks.
Yeah, so I I and we some ofthat's gonna tail off.
I mean, that's that's just howthose things happen, but we're
(18:56):
seeing solid retention um justin the last six weeks.
Okay, so what and these are andthen what so these are people
that's go ahead, Teddy.
SPEAKER_03 (19:05):
No, I was just saying, uh I was just saying
these are people that are youknow probably seeking the Lord
and and just seeking fellowshipand you know yeah, uh a hundred
percent.
SPEAKER_02 (19:13):
And um, where was my thought going?
Oh yeah now three to five yearsout.
So okay, so if we continue atthis rate, we can't do four
services.
So so what is so what does thatlook like?
So what does what does a secondlocation look like?
So we want to split the church,but where do we want to plant a
campus or another site?
So do we um yeah, so I you haveto look geographically.
(19:34):
Well, where do you have a pocketof people?
So there's a couple of areasthat we're looking we're looking
at around here in a couple oftowns over where we know we have
maybe 30 or 40 people we coulduse to start planning that
church, and then you bring apastor on board and you try to
do your own live worship, uh,and then you just bring the live
sermon over and you work on thelogistic, the technical aspect
there.
Uh, but we, you know, you alwaysneed to be looking several steps
(19:57):
ahead.
You can't be anchored into theidea and cement because the Lord
may lead you someplace else, butyou need to be thinking about
these things so you can beprepared, like, okay, this is
where I think the Lord isleading me at this moment, you
know, and so you can be preparedto act.
SPEAKER_03 (20:11):
How how did the the servants that were serving, um,
how are they uh how did theyadjust when you when you you
know started doing more you knowservices?
Uh because usually that's agrind on all everybody involved.
SPEAKER_02 (20:28):
Fortunately, we're we're we are again with God's
blessings, we're not a needychurch.
Uh so we have no one, there's acouple people who choose to do
all three services, but we don'thave anybody serving three
services.
Praise God, wow.
That's called okay.
Let me modify that.
The praise team.
Yeah, so the praise team, theyplay the first, they they play
(20:48):
the first service, secondservice, and the opening of the
third, and then they go home.
So it is the musicians, butthere's um they rotate, so it's
not the same musicians everyweek.
So it may be one week they havetheir three services and the
next week they have off, uh,sort of thing.
But for the most part,everything is is two services.
SPEAKER_03 (21:06):
Oh, praise God.
That's that's so importantbecause I've seen I've seen
people that have just a desireto serve the Lord and a heart
for God.
SPEAKER_02 (21:15):
I've seen them actually get burnt, fried, and
just and that's why, and andthen um Mark's gonna be taking
over the the hospitality, allthe stuff sort of out front.
And you need to depending on howyou like anything, depending on
how you frame things, you getpeople excited about serving.
We don't ever say we need yourhelp.
There's an opportunity for youto serve the Lord and bless the
(21:37):
people around you.
When you serve the Lord, you'reblessed and you bless others.
That's the way that you presentit.
And that's that's the truth.
I'm not we're not sugarcoatingit or selling it, but you have
to present it for what it reallyis.
Yes, there is a need, but thatis not the primary opportunity
for the primary purpose ofsomeone serving isn't to fulfill
a need.
It's then to be able to blessthe bless the uh bless others
(21:59):
and bless themselves.
That's part of the disciplemaking.
We are a disciple-making church,and that that um uh that
message, that emphasis has topermeate through absolutely
every ministry.
SPEAKER_03 (22:11):
Yeah, I I uh I agree 100%.
I recently um explained to Idon't know if it was the whole
congregation or uh just a groupof uh folks from our church that
I was watching a an exercise, abodybuilding video uh lifting
weights.
I that's one of my passions.
(22:32):
I like to you know lift weightsand stuff like that.
So this one guy who's been doingit for 40 some years, Michael
Hearn, he's a um he's not evenlike a competitive bodybuilder,
he's just been in movies andhe's just an athlete.
He uh somebody asked him, hesaid, how how can you do this
for 40 years and still be inshape and still be excited about
(22:53):
going to the gym and workingout?
And he said, Listen, man, youknow, maybe 40 years ago I had a
mindset shift from I have to goto the gym to I get to go to the
gym.
And that little change made sucha difference that I actually
(23:14):
wait a second, I get to go tothe gym.
If I take it that way, it's nota burden.
And I said, you know what, I wI'm gonna I need to apply that
to prayer.
Let me apply that to prayer.
Uh I I have to oh I have to gopray.
Or wait a second, I get to I getto go pray if I just that little
few degrees change there makessuch a big difference.
(23:36):
And I think I think it appliesto service as well.
It can apply to certain kind ofwhat you're saying as far as you
know we're we're not not tryingto solicit everybody saying we
need your help, or I have to gohelp.
If I get to go help, that's adifferent approach.
I I actually get to help.
Wait a second.
SPEAKER_02 (23:55):
So 100%.
Excuse me, when I was leadingthe youth, one of the things I I
would say then we met onWednesday nights, and so when
you talk to your friends inschool and they said, Hey, do
you want to get together, wantto hang out tonight?
What do you tell them thatyou're doing?
Do you tell them, well, I haveto go to youth group tonight or
youth group tonight?
So tonight's my youth grouptonight.
Why don't you come?
(24:16):
You know, what is what is yourrationale?
I I can't, I can't, you know, Ican't do this on Sunday because
I have church.
No, I said, you know, I go tochurch, you know, church is what
I do.
I have the privilege ofworshiping God.
SPEAKER_03 (24:29):
I get to go worship God, man.
I go, are you kidding me?
That's just such a game changer.
SPEAKER_02 (24:34):
It's amazing because I when I first uh you know, when
I first came to to know theLord, I I was just starting out
in my uh my refereeing and Iwould ref on Sundays and skip
church and stuff like that.
And then I I my mindset sort ofstarted shifting.
I'm like, well, no, I'm notdisappointed because I can't
ref.
I was like, no, I want to go tochurch.
I want to be saved, I want to beworshiping God.
(24:57):
I want I want to just come toHim.
So now it's like not even I'mlike, I could have the best,
they could be offering me thebest possible highest level
match, the feather my cap for myreferee and career.
I'll be like, yeah, I'm good.
I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, I'mgonna go right, right, right,
right.
SPEAKER_03 (25:11):
It reminds me of uh the psalms that say uh delight
yourself in the in the Lord andHe'll give you the desire of
your heart.
So when you when you delightyourself in Him, He becomes the
desire of your heart.
It just makes it makes sense.
You delight yourself in the Somepeople are like the well, if I
delight myself in the Lord, thenthen He's gonna give me the
desire of my heart, then He'llhave me win the lottery, or have
(25:34):
bring me my wife or your husbandor this and that.
And really He becomes the desireof your heart, and it's like
you're a lot of the things thatyou did want start to shift and
move move out of the way.
And uh He's faithful to give youmore of Himself, which is
amazing.
So well, I man, dude, Iappreciate you taking the time
(25:57):
out of your busy schedule todayfrom Graceway.
All of us have just heard noteven the tip of the iceberg of
what's happening out there.
Um maybe we can come back and uhand do another interview with
you guys.
I'd love I I still need to talkto Scott Taransky too, get
brought up to speed on himbecause I know that he and Mark
they were in Africa.
(26:18):
Yeah, a couple years ago, yeah.
Yeah, wow, I yeah, I rememberthat, and that's when uh you
know uh Mark, it was just funnyhow I I met Mark um and uh we
got to talking, and he was like,Yeah, he mentioned Scott, and I
was like, wait, you know ScottTaransky had I haven't heard
that name in a while, man.
So anyway, we just want to Iwant to thank you for being on
(26:40):
Plays On Word Radio.
We're gonna put uh a link toGraceway um uh on our in the
show notes.
And if anybody is in theHamilton, Trenton,
Robbinsville-ish area, um anyother area, am I missing
something?
You know Largeville, that'sthat's where Scott School, I
think the school was inLargeville at when I went to it
(27:03):
was right before 9-11.
Um if anybody's in that area,absolutely, but I tell you what,
if you decide to go visit thischurch, you better not show up
five minutes later.
You're not gonna you're gonnayou're not gonna get in because
uh the Lord is doing somethingreally special there.
And I'm just I pray, man, thatthe next time we talk, uh the
(27:25):
Lord's even gonna have even moreof a great testimony of what
he's doing in your livesindividually and corporately as
a body.
You know, I was reading a littlebit about the history of your uh
of of Graceway, man.
It was like a tent revival or atent that was set up back in the
30s.
SPEAKER_02 (27:42):
1933, it was when they first started meeting,
officially became incorporatedin 34.
But the original name was thenon-sectarian Christian
Association of New Jersey.
So when I throw when I when I domy when I do the monthly uh
intro to Graceway, navigatingGraceway class, I tell people
just look at what it means,non-sectarian, it's no sect, no
group, so not especially it wasthe first non-denominational.
(28:04):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (28:05):
That's a that's there you guys were the original
non-denominational church.
SPEAKER_02 (28:08):
I love it.
And Bible teaching, and itstayed the same, just
consistently teaching throughthe Bible.
Amen.
That's the key.
A couple name changes betweenthen and now, but it's the same
same principle, 91 years later.
SPEAKER_03 (28:20):
And see, anytime I go to an old established church
like that, I always like towonder and ponder.
You know, you think about theold saints that were that were
there, think about their prayersfor what the Lord would would
do, and then you realize, wait asecond, you're walking in the
(28:40):
you are the answer.
Lord is using you to answerprayers that were uttered 80
years ago.
Or you know what I mean?
And it's like, wait a minute,man, what uh here I thought I
had something to do with this,but you know, there some old
saint is that we're gonna meetin glorious, is saying thank you
to the Lord right now.
Lord, thank you for it.
It's a little later than Iexpected, but I thank you for
(29:02):
answering the prayer.
And so you're writing the thewave of prayer.
SPEAKER_02 (29:05):
Um we moved here, we moved from Trenton to here in
62.
So they they moved out of thetent into a they rented a
building.
But uh we we had our 90thanniversary celebration last
year.
Uh, we had two people who wereat the church in Trenton, and
they're like, I yeah, I didn'texpect oh ho ho ho that's
something right now.
SPEAKER_03 (29:26):
Oh my goodness, wow, man.
SPEAKER_02 (29:28):
That's grown and expanded, and all the stuff that
the Lord is doing here.
It's just what an answer toprayer.
SPEAKER_03 (29:33):
Oh, praise God, man.
We might have to interview them,man.
We we might have to interviewthem just to see, you know what
I mean.
That's that's worth justinterviewing, getting them to
talk about what was it like backthen.
And do they remember any of theprayers?
Because, you know, I just I Ithink about the Lord's time is
way different than ours, and wesometimes get impatient, like,
uh, he's not answering theprayer.
(29:55):
He might be like, Hold on, man,I got a 60 year gap going on
here for you.
But uh God's faithful.
So yeah, man, we definitely weabsolutely um we we definitely
appreciate you.
Pastor Don from Graceway BibleChurch in Hamilton, I want to
say.
But my thoughts are like it goesbeyond Hamilton.
(30:16):
I'm sure you have people frombeyond, you know, people from
Trenton, maybe some people fromBurlington, might even be able
to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (30:20):
Burlington, uh, as far north as Pennington, uh,
which is we have some peoplethat drive 30, 30 minutes to
come to church.
I have one guy that's lives downby Atlantic City.
Uh he's coming up here, heardabout Graceway.
They're looking for a new churchand they're planting themselves.
Him and his wife want to plantthemselves around their church
for the future, and he's comingup.
SPEAKER_03 (30:38):
Praise God.
Well, may you guys continue tohave an impact on the community
for Christ, and may he justsmile upon you.
And uh man, I'm just maybe we'llmaybe we'll talk.
I I need to learn some moreabout logistics, man.
You got the experience on thelogistics there and the the the
overall management aspectbecause that's where that's a uh
I don't want to say a blind spotfor me, but I don't have the
(31:00):
experience, you know, that Iwish I did.
And I was like, I know a guy Ican probably call and ask what
he thinks.
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
If you want to pick my brain, give me a call
anytime.
SPEAKER_03 (31:08):
I appreciate it, man.
Well, God bless you, man.
We love you, and and at somepoint we're gonna make our way
back, and uh, we'll show you ourPete quit.
That sounds great.
I look forward to it.
Yeah, amen.
Amen.
Well, thank you very much,Pastor Reverend Don Schwing from
Graceway Bible Church.
Shout out to Dr.
Scott Taransky and my man, MarkCrabtree, everybody over at
(31:32):
Graceway Bible Church over therein New Jersey.
That's all we have time fortoday.
God willing, if the creek don'trise, we'll be back next week.
But until then, the Lord blessyou and keep you.
The Lord make his face to shineupon you and be gracious to you.
SPEAKER_01 (31:46):
The Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give
you peace, this program was madepossible by the Playson Word
family of supporters.
To find out more, check out ourwebsite at playsonword.org.
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