October 13, 2024 • 33 mins
Balancing the demands of marriage and ministry can feel like walking a tightrope. Join us as Katelyn and I open up about our unique journey, shedding light on how we've navigated the highs and lows of serving in ministry as a couple. From our humble beginnings in a Sunday school class to embracing the roller coaster of pastoral life, we reveal how a shared mission and teamwork have helped us safeguard our marriage from being overshadowed by church responsibilities. Discover how we’ve managed to prioritize our family while wholeheartedly committing to our church community.
The life of a pastor’s family, particularly on Sundays, can feel intense and overwhelming, yet it’s filled with unique blessings. We share the physical and mental demands we face—from preparing sermons to engaging with congregants—alongside the responsibilities of raising our children. Despite these challenges, profound joy and fulfillment emerge from witnessing the positive impact of ministry on people’s lives. Our personal anecdotes underscore the significance of having a clear mission statement to stay committed through the ups and downs, and we reflect on the vital role of a supportive church community in managing these dynamics.
Communication is the cornerstone of a thriving marriage in ministry. We explore open dialogue about victories and challenges, highlighting the importance of considering a spouse as a primary teammate. Our story emphasizes the necessity of setting boundaries to prevent burnout and keep household harmony intact. Reflecting on a commitment made 12 years ago, we continue to honor our dedication to both family and church.
Stock Music provided by wolfgangwoehrle, from Pond5
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hi and welcome back to the Pleasing God podcast, a
weekly show focused on helpingChristians to think biblically,
engage practically and livefaithfully for the glory of God.
I'm your host, jonathan Soule,and I'm joined again with my
lovely wife, caitlin.
Hello.
Hey we're gonna have aconversation.
Sure, all right, is this?
We're going to have aconversation.
Sure, all right.
Is this an installment onimperfect marriage?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Okay, what do you want to talk about?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I think today we're going to talk about marriage
within ministry.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Marrying the ministry .
Speaker 2 (00:39):
No, not marrying the ministry, married in ministry.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Married in ministry.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
That's very different .
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, some people marry the ministry.
Some people divorce their wiveswithout divorcing their wives
and marry the ministry and it'sa shame.
And the wife becomes secondfiddle to all the demands of the
people and she is shamed if shefeels like she comes in the way
(01:13):
, if the marriage relationshipgets in the way of the ministry,
and so she needs to do a goodjob of freeing her husband up so
that he's always available forwhatever the demands of ministry
are.
That's a bad model.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, and we're going to talk about how we've kind of
safeguarded from that.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yes.
So don't do that and establishthat early on.
So yeah, we can talk a littlebit about our history.
And I mean, if it wasn't forministry, we wouldn't have met.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, I think that's the place we should start in
that.
I know in the past, in pastpodcasts, we've told our story
and have mentioned this, butreally our whole relationship
started from us working togetherin ministry.
We were both leading a Sundayschool class for students, and
(02:13):
so all we've ever really knownis a relationship within serving
together in ministry.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, serving together.
I mean in almost every one ofour ministries we've been doing
it together.
Yeah, serve in a unique rolethat in many ways comes
(02:44):
alongside me and does enable meto do a lot of the things that I
need to do in that pastoral,male pastoral role that I could
not do without you, and that'scertainly a support role there,
but that's ministry as well, forsure.
Yeah started out in the Sundayschool class and got to know one
another just by servingtogether.
(03:07):
And man is that awesome.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
It's just you're loving Jesus together, but more
than just individuals lovingJesus together, we're loving
Jesus together and serving hischurch and that just creates a
bond.
Yeah, I think just creates abond yeah.
I think that's so important.
And yeah, our ministry led tomarriage, but we didn't marry
(03:33):
the ministry.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
No, so our original start was in that Sunday school
class and then it morphed intoyouth group.
Then you kind of became thewhat was your official title
Student ministry leader.
It was not youth pastor.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Correct, that was what you did in function, but
that wasn't the title of it, soit starts out as youth intern.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, youth intern was the start.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Every one of the titles that I've ever had in
this church are the ones thatI've said, hey, shouldn't I be
called?
This every one of all the wayyou know um.
So it was youth intern directorof, then promoted to director,
director of Student Ministries,then Pastor of Youth and
(04:25):
Families.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
What was the other one?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Which that just was part of the umbrella of what you
were overseeing.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Then Associate Pastor and some people didn't
understand.
Associate Assistant andwhatever, and associate
assistant and whatever, and nowofficially pastor of leadership
and education, which is leadingand teaching.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I guess.
So at this point you were youthintern right when we took over
or started youth group.
Yes, yeah, what was that?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
2014, 13?
.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
No, I had Marley, so 2014, 15.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
14.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
But anyways, that consisted a lot of you preaching
at youth group and doing Sundayschool together.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Well, the Sunday school started in 2012.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Because that's when we met.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Right, and then that was.
It had morphed into us, thentaking on a youth group.
It started to grow Situationyeah.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And from the Sunday school the nucleus of Sunday
morning started to grow there ofthis group of students and then
a youth group, then theoutreach and man.
Those are some fun times.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, I remember, you know, I I didn't really have a
huge role, uh, in that season.
I don't, I don't, I don't, Idon't think, because I mean I
was having baby after baby,after baby in those years, um,
but I remember, you know, goingover to the church and putting
down babies for naps while wewere there for youth group.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You didn't just stay home with your kids and not do
anything?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
No.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Good.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Maybe, yeah, no, I remember Marley being really
small and bringing her to youthgroup, and then Harry and then
Oliver and it kind of was justwhat it was.
We went to church and did youthgroup and then harry and then
oliver and they kind of justjust what it was.
We went to church, um, and anddid youth group, but I remember
you know, my sole focus was thechildren but, um, just being
there as just a support to you,you know, juggling kids, naps
(06:37):
and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, and we had, I mean, a lot of support.
Family that would come at timesand watch the kids in the house
once they got a little older.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yes, yeah, yeah, I do remember that too.
We had some family taken, likeMarley and Harry, for the
evenings that we could, and thatwas their service to us to be
able to then go and serve thechurch in that way, which was
really sweet.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
So, when we talk about not marrying, the ministry
there is on the other side ofthings, though don't let the
pendulum swing to the other side, and what we demonstrate to our
children by what we do inmodeling is that the local
church matters and that ministryis important.
(07:23):
And so, when they were youngand we're going out, we're not
neglecting them, because a lotof times and what we have done
is we've brought them in andalongside of, but having
children does not mean that's my.
All of a sudden, I'm out ofministry.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, I think it was helpful for us.
We had an elder in our churchwho at the time, who really was
safeguarding us as a youngfamily, a big priority of his
was helping you have a goodbalance of work, ministry and
then family.
(08:01):
And I think from the very startwe found a really good balance
of that where you weren't outmultiple times a week and there
was plenty of family time athome, but then we would go out
and do youth group together.
So I think there was a goodbalance of we served together
but we also had family time athome, and then there were times
where you had to go out and doyouth group for a while too.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, in those early years for sure, because ministry
, student ministry, but allministry is unpredictable, right
, you can't predict the crisis,the emergency, when it's a true
emergency and there has to be awillingness to hold time loosely
(08:46):
tightly but also be willing tolet it go.
And, yeah, there were timeswhere, like I got that call and
I had to go, or you know that,that crisis moment that I had to
deal with counseling,counseling that is unpredictable
and through it all, you neverpressure, and still do not
(09:09):
pressure me to not do ministry,and for that I absolutely am
thankful because I'm sure itcould be a real challenge with
at home.
The spouse is like give me, meand mine.
And why are you doing all this?
(09:29):
For you know that would just be, but there's an understanding
there.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Well, I think for me from the very start.
I remember we went toBeavertail that one night when
we were dating and we had like areal conversation of like you
saying, hey, I want to be in theministry.
This was while we were datingand we had like a real
conversation of like you saying,hey, I'm, I want to be in the
ministry.
This was while we were dating,um, I'm going to be in the
ministry.
Like this is, this is you know,the calling I feel God is
(09:56):
leading me to.
And I, after kind of thinkingabout it for a while, I was like
, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm in.
Like this is, this is what Iwant, this is what I want for my
life, this is what I think Godwants for me in being in
relationship with you.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Okay, so from that night like 12, probably 12 years
ago, maybe even longer, how'sit going?
How, how's?
How has these 12 years sinceyou said, yeah, I'm all in any
(10:31):
regrets?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah.
So definitely has had its upsand downs and, quite honestly,
there have definitely been timeswhere I would be okay if we
were not in the positions thatwe were in.
It's hard.
Ministry is hard and it can behard.
I think, again, we've done areally good job at not letting
(10:58):
it affect our relationship.
But there have definitely beentimes where I I'm thinking is
this worth it?
This is hard and people arehard and these situations are
hard and this circumstance isreally hard, you know, and
that's a hard, but then there'salso lots and lots and lots of
(11:19):
good, and I and we're not calledto easy and we're not called to
a straight, easy path.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So knowing what you know now, if you could talk to
your younger self 12 years ago,what would you say concerning
the ministry and marriage.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Buckle up, it's going to be a ride.
Oh, get you.
You better get thick skin.
Listen, I love roller coasters.
I've loved roller coasters eversince I can remember um this is
, this is the the wildest rollercoaster I've ever been on um.
(12:02):
But I I would say that ourchurch has always been,
especially since you know, we'vebeen raising young, a young
family, and I do feel like ourchurch has been very special in
that they've allowed me to notfeel overstretched in my
ministry.
I I feel like there's been alot of understanding in that
(12:23):
she's kind of in the thick ofthings at home, raising littles
and homeschooling, and so I dothink our church family has been
very gracious in that way andnot expecting too much out of me
personally in ministry, andthat's helped quite a bit.
So I'm thankful for that.
And also we can say that thisis we're talking obviously as
(12:45):
like a pastor's family at thispoint.
But ministry is anything andeverything, whether you're a
Sunday school teacher, whetheryou're just a helper in a Juana,
in all of those capacities.
So ministry takes on so manydifferent forms and can affect a
relationship at all levels.
(13:07):
It's not just as pastor'sfamily, so we're talking
specifically in our ownexperience, but in general I
think this could be helpful inany relationship when you're in
ministry.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, I mean there needs to be buy-in from husband
and wife.
There can't be like one partythat is like kind of on the
fence and then the other personwants to go all in, because
That'll cause tension andfriction at home.
Yeah, and typically and I don'twant to seem like I'm
(13:44):
overgeneralizing, but I wouldfeel like and you can correct me
if I'm wrong but the man wantsto go and do all this ministry
stuff and the wife is kind oflike, hey, you're leaving me at
home all alone.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, I think I can see that being the case.
I do know women who arego-getters and extroverts and
want to do all the things wheretheir husbands are not that way.
And so there is that other sideof it too.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, and I think of just when Paul talks to Timothy
about.
You know, this is thequalifications of a man who's
going to lead in the church hehas to be able to manage his own
household well.
Right, going to lead in thechurch, he has to be able to
manage his own household well.
So if your marriage, if tensioncomes into your marriage
(14:43):
because of different ideas ofministry involvement, you are
getting really close to notmeeting a qualification.
If you manage your householdwell, you know you have to be
like there needs to be buy-inand kind of like that night at
Beavertail we both were signingblank checks.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah Right, we had no idea.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Well, I'm a second generation pastor, so I've got
to.
I witnessed in my, like,teenage years and early 20s,
learning through observation, umfrom my father and then working
alongside him throughout theyears.
But, uh, nonetheless, there isstill a level of you're only
(15:24):
going to understand it when youexperience it.
And, um, it wasn't like we werelike, hey, let's sign up, for
you know, this is, you know,this booming church, and like
we've had to plow and most ofour stuff.
It's in weird ways, it seemedlike planting a church in a
church.
All I never have taken over oneestablished ministry.
(15:46):
The only ministries I've everreally been doing are the ones
that I've been, you know, byGod's grace, with a team
creating and building.
And so I mean, even at the verybeginning, we started that
Sunday school class becausethere wasn't one.
It wasn't like a Sunday schoolteacher had retired and didn't
have anything.
Well, all right, lord, let'swalk into this.
(16:08):
So, yeah's, definitely I don'tlike roller coasters.
Um, oh, we're at the on thatstarship 3000 at the fair.
I still feel sick when I thinkabout it.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
But yeah, it's been a ride of some ups and downs,
great victories and a lot ofpain yeah, I think I think on my
end too I can think of somewomen who kind of have come
alongside me In the times whereI wasn't really able to be
physically with you.
In ministries like Youth Group,there were women who would come
(16:44):
alongside and family who wouldeither take the children or come
over and, while you were atYouth Group, come and kind of
help me around the house andjust have company.
And so I always thought thatthat was really special too,
that there were a couple ofwomen who were willing to do
that for us as just a support ofour family, which was sweet.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah for sure, and I'm thankful for the godly men
in my life that in kind ofdifferent areas were able to
invest.
And yeah, you were talking aboutsomething earlier.
That just kind of reminds me Ihad to draw some hard lines
pretty early on and there waskind of a move of a flurry of
(17:33):
busyness.
And one pastor that has beenmeaningful to me throughout the
years that I've listened to, Iwas listening to him early on
and he was talking about how heprioritized his days and he said
he would have his mornings werefor God, his afternoons were
for people and he said he wouldhave his mornings were for God,
(17:54):
his afternoons were for peopleand his evenings were for family
when the kids were little.
And he said what does it profitme to gain the whole church but
to lose my family?
And that right there reallystuck hard and I thought about
okay, I could basically leave mychildren could become orphans,
(18:16):
functional orphans or a singleparent home, because dad is
always taking care of all ofthese things and I didn't want
to miss bedtimes and bath timesand letting little Marley do my
hair when she's a couple yearsold.
And so I set aside and I toldthe line and I said I will not
(18:40):
be out three nights in a row onreoccurring functional
ministries.
I'm not going to be out Tuesdaynight, wednesday night,
thursday night in addition toSunday night.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Thursday night in addition to Sunday night, and I
need to have some family dinnersand I need to just be dad to
these children and the ministrywill be there and I'm not going
to neglect or be lazy and I knowif something comes up I need to
go and, fully supported by Kate, but the regular rhythm I can't
(19:13):
do that.
So finding out, okay, how can Istill get in time with people
and Saturday mornings with withmen, um, things like that,
recognizing that those that areworking during the week they
can't.
So just being strategic and themanagement of time and
prioritizing what is mostimportant, because you will
(19:36):
always make time for what's mostimportant to you.
And so those were some of theboundaries.
If there was, like a lot ofministry output, you know in
those early years of studentministry, go until nine o'clock
at night on a Thursday, Iwouldn't be up and at it at six
(20:00):
or 7 am on Friday.
If I was gone all day Thursday,I would try to spend a little
more time in the morning withfamily and then, you know, go
off to the office or somethinglike that.
And so just trying to workthose things out where I'm being
faithful to what I'm called todo, both in my vocation and in
(20:22):
my home and the roles that Ihave there husband, father, and
so those are just kind ofpractical things that you know
I've tried to do throughout theyears.
So we've talked around it.
We've talked about differentprioritizing time, structuring
days, safeguarding some familytime In the midst of ministry,
(20:48):
which is unconventional in itstiming.
Um, you know, get the questionhow many hours a week do you
work?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
that it's a really hard question to answer yeah, um
because it's every text, everyphone call, every question,
every meeting, every timeputting into sermon prep and all
of that.
It's hard to timestamp thosethings.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, I know, and especially like it's not even
rated on time, it's outcomes anddeadlines and oof.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
To just put like a stamp on time of what you do.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
I hit my hours for the week.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I'm done Right Because you have Joe Schmoe
who's like texting you atheological question.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I don't think Mr Schmoe would appreciate that you
should use someone else's name,right?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Sure Sure.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I mean seeking to be accessible but not always Right,
Drawing some of those lines andboundaries.
What are ways in which you andI have been able to safeguard
our marriage, to maintain ahealthy marriage, in the midst
(22:07):
of, I mean, I mean, the manychallenges that we have faced
from just the nature of theministry?
What are some things that havebeen helpful?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Oh, I think, still having good communication and
expectations of what our days orweeks look like, staying on
each other's team and notletting something come in
between us, knowing that it'sfrom the outside and it's not to
put a wedge between the two ofus.
I don't think there's ever beena situation in ministry that
we've come across that has put awedge between the two of us, I
think, knowing that we're doingthis as a team.
(22:53):
So even if you have to go outand do a meeting, I'm supporting
you in that.
Really, I think, prioritizingeach other.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
And I support your ministry too when you need to.
Let's not make it all soundone-sided that Caitlin's just
like oh, I'm your cheerleader athome, but there are things that
you can do because of who youare, that I can't do.
There are people you can talkto that I can't talk to Crossing
(23:24):
that gender line.
You know it would be, and so ohyeah, and you know.
You with the ladies and women'sministry stuff and those kinds
of things where you can engagewith young moms or moms of many
and like, what can I do?
I can, I can support and say,hey, I'm going to, I got the
kids, I'm going to, I'll makedinner tonight and you go out
(23:47):
and do that thing that you needto do as well, because I want to
support you as you're seekingto love Jesus and love people.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Oh yeah, I mean Sunday mornings are both
supporting each other.
I have to go to music practicereally early and even if those
are mornings where you're, youknow, finalizing sermon prep or
like reviewing your sermon, youknow you're still watching all
the kids while I'm going out tomusic practice.
So you know what?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
let me bring that up for a second, because there's
going to be a time where we'regoing to look back on the season
that we're in right now andwe're going to say, wow, and
let's remember this podcast andlisten back to it in I don't
know 15 years.
But right now you are the musiccoordinator for the church.
(24:35):
Between the two of us, weorganize and write the order of
service every week.
You lead the music team inpreparation and practice for the
songs I'm preaching regularlypretty regularly and teaching a
Sunday school class prior tothat, and you have music
(25:00):
practice at 8 o'clock in themorning.
So you have to get up, getyourself ready, you make food
for everyone there are fivechildren in the house that have
to get dressed and you colorcoordinate them from head to toe
so their outfits all match andthey look clean okay you're out
the door at eight o'clock.
(25:20):
I need to do my final sermonpreps.
So I'm studying for the sermon,rallying the troops like 8 50,
getting five kids in the car torush over to church teach a
Sunday school class, comeupstairs, try to be bubbly and
(25:41):
ready to go and if I haveservice lead, I've got call to
worship pastoral prayer.
You have to jump on the piano.
You got to jump on the pianoand then I'm going to go preach
a 42-minute sermon.
You got to jump on the pianoand then I'm going to go preach
a 42-minute sermon.
So by the time noon hits onSunday Also getting the kids to
Sunday schools and nurseries andchildren's church.
Oh yeah, All that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Oh no, we're beat Sunday afternoon.
Also.
I was just talking to someonerecently about what goes into
being a pastor and pastor's wifeon a Sunday morning.
You also kind of have to havelike multiple personalities, in
that you know you talk to oneperson with one personality and
(26:25):
one conversation and you have toremember details about them and
their life and then you have togo and you have to go talk to
another person with theirpersonality and their life and
their problems and their thingsand it's it.
I mean it's encouraging andit's wonderful and I do love
Sundays.
There's joy in that.
But there is a lot of likemental exertion that also goes
(26:49):
into that part of a sundaymorning besides music and sermon
and sunday school like it's.
It is exhausting so by oneo'clock.
The last few weeks we have beenlike vegging on sunday
afternoons because, it is justit can be utterly exhausting, on
(27:12):
top of kids and pregnancy andall of those things so I have.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
In my previous life I was a carpenter and built
houses, frame to finish, and Ihad some long days, some very
physical days of building andframing, and there are some
Sundays that I am far moreexhausted from, just like
(27:40):
everything, than some of themost intense construction days.
And there's a lot going on tojust the whole thing.
And we show up and all that isseen is, oh, the souls are here,
hi how you doing it's like man.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, we have definitely.
There have been some times thatwe've talked about, about
ministry, about how we wouldlove to just be able to go to
church on a Sunday morning,worship and go home.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Okay, so here is one of the great benefits of
marriage and ministry when weget to travel and we get to be
nobodies when you show up at achurch.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I love being a nobody in church.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
It's refreshing to be able to just go to church and
worship and just be in the pew.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah, and to talk to other fellow believers.
It's just when you get askedthe question oh, what do you do?
Yeah.
And I'm like oh, I'm a pastor.
Oh, really weird.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
That is really refreshing to be able to do that
Because we don't ever.
Just I mean it is rare if weare going to church and there is
no, we have no hand in theservice in any way, but it's
always nice when that does kindof happen.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Enjoy ministry, love it.
It is a roller coaster.
I wouldn't trade anything,almost anything.
No, I wouldn't trade anythingAlmost anything?
No, I wouldn't.
There's no greater joy thanserving King Jesus.
What?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
it boils down to is the why why we do what we do?
And having sort of almost likea mission statement of, because
there will be times where youwill question is this really
what we're called to do?
Is this what I want to do?
Um, and just kind of having a awhy statement, um is really
(29:42):
helpful.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
yeah, I mean you have to.
You have to because that'swhat's going to sustain you.
It's not the people.
People, it's not.
This is my job.
It's that I have been called byJesus to spend and be spent for
his church, to suffer for thesake of the gospel, in whatever
(30:06):
location, because people comeand people go.
Ministries change, dnas ofchurches, cultures change,
churches change, and you needsomething that's far more rock
solid than that.
I've been betrayed, I've beenburned, I've been lied to, I've
(30:27):
been slandered.
I have been at the wrong end ofmany people's conversations,
misrepresented and treated invery unkind ways by people that
call themselves Christians, andthat's a challenge.
You don't just oh, how manyhours a week do you work?
(30:49):
Oh, I can turn that off nowbecause it's 5 o'clock.
Just, oh, how many hours a weekdo you work?
Oh, I can turn that off nowbecause it's five o'clock.
But at the same time, for allthose negatives, there's been
great positives.
I've seen lives changed.
I've seen people come up andthen go into the ministry, I've
seen disciples making disciples,and so these things happen If
(31:17):
there's not opposition, ifyou're not facing opposition, I
wonder, are you really making adifference?
And so, throughout our time, weface those things, but the good
far outweighs the negative.
You do need a why.
Why do I do the things that Ido?
And it has to be more than yourown self-determination.
But when talking about theministry and marriage, we must
(31:40):
safeguard it.
Talk often, share wins andlosses, successes and failures.
Be open.
Men in ministry confide andshare not all of this stuff.
There are things that you knowyou don't even your wife doesn't
need to know about, and that'syou know at the elder level of
(32:02):
things at times.
But share, find support.
I mean, your greatest teammateis your wife, is your spouse,
and it needs to stay that way.
But also, you know, in seasonswhere ministry is very demanding
, you need to be able to pressthe pause button.
(32:24):
You need to be able to breathe,because if not, you're just
going to burnout, and burnoutwill wreck your marriage.
So prioritize that too.
You're not qualified if youcan't manage your household well
.
So 12 years ago at Beavertailyou said I'm all in, We'll talk
again in 12 more years.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
As of right now, still going well.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Keep crushing it, kate.
Any other thoughts?
Great, I have a meeting.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Well, there you go.
All right, I want to thank youfor listening to the Pleasing
God podcast.
If you have any questions, Iwould love to hear from you.
You could reach out atquestions at
pleasinggodpodcastorg.
And remember 1 Thessalonians4.3,.
This is the will of God, yoursanctification.
Hi and welcome back to the Pleasing God podcast, a
weekly show focused on helpingChristians to think biblically,
engage practically and livefaithfully for the glory of God.
I'm your host, jonathan Soule,and I'm joined again with my
lovely wife, caitlin.
Hello.
Hey we're gonna have aconversation.
Sure, all right, is this?
We're going to have aconversation.
Sure, all right.
Is this an installment onimperfect marriage?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Okay, what do you want to talk about?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I think today we're going to talk about marriage
within ministry.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Marrying the ministry .
Speaker 2 (00:39):
No, not marrying the ministry, married in ministry.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Married in ministry.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
That's very different .
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, some people marry the ministry.
Some people divorce their wiveswithout divorcing their wives
and marry the ministry and it'sa shame.
And the wife becomes secondfiddle to all the demands of the
people and she is shamed if shefeels like she comes in the way
(01:13):
, if the marriage relationshipgets in the way of the ministry,
and so she needs to do a goodjob of freeing her husband up so
that he's always available forwhatever the demands of ministry
are.
That's a bad model.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, and we're going to talk about how we've kind of
safeguarded from that.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yes.
So don't do that and establishthat early on.
So yeah, we can talk a littlebit about our history.
And I mean, if it wasn't forministry, we wouldn't have met.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, I think that's the place we should start in
that.
I know in the past, in pastpodcasts, we've told our story
and have mentioned this, butreally our whole relationship
started from us working togetherin ministry.
We were both leading a Sundayschool class for students, and
(02:13):
so all we've ever really knownis a relationship within serving
together in ministry.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, serving together.
I mean in almost every one ofour ministries we've been doing
it together.
Yeah, serve in a unique rolethat in many ways comes
(02:44):
alongside me and does enable meto do a lot of the things that I
need to do in that pastoral,male pastoral role that I could
not do without you, and that'scertainly a support role there,
but that's ministry as well, forsure.
Yeah started out in the Sundayschool class and got to know one
another just by servingtogether.
(03:07):
And man is that awesome.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
It's just you're loving Jesus together, but more
than just individuals lovingJesus together, we're loving
Jesus together and serving hischurch and that just creates a
bond.
Yeah, I think just creates abond yeah.
I think that's so important.
And yeah, our ministry led tomarriage, but we didn't marry
(03:33):
the ministry.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
No, so our original start was in that Sunday school
class and then it morphed intoyouth group.
Then you kind of became thewhat was your official title
Student ministry leader.
It was not youth pastor.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Correct, that was what you did in function, but
that wasn't the title of it, soit starts out as youth intern.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, youth intern was the start.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Every one of the titles that I've ever had in
this church are the ones thatI've said, hey, shouldn't I be
called?
This every one of all the wayyou know um.
So it was youth intern directorof, then promoted to director,
director of Student Ministries,then Pastor of Youth and
(04:25):
Families.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
What was the other one?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Which that just was part of the umbrella of what you
were overseeing.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Then Associate Pastor and some people didn't
understand.
Associate Assistant andwhatever, and associate
assistant and whatever, and nowofficially pastor of leadership
and education, which is leadingand teaching.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I guess.
So at this point you were youthintern right when we took over
or started youth group.
Yes, yeah, what was that?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
2014, 13?
.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
No, I had Marley, so 2014, 15.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
14.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
But anyways, that consisted a lot of you preaching
at youth group and doing Sundayschool together.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Well, the Sunday school started in 2012.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Because that's when we met.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Right, and then that was.
It had morphed into us, thentaking on a youth group.
It started to grow Situationyeah.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And from the Sunday school the nucleus of Sunday
morning started to grow there ofthis group of students and then
a youth group, then theoutreach and man.
Those are some fun times.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, I remember, you know, I I didn't really have a
huge role, uh, in that season.
I don't, I don't, I don't, Idon't think, because I mean I
was having baby after baby,after baby in those years, um,
but I remember, you know, goingover to the church and putting
down babies for naps while wewere there for youth group.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You didn't just stay home with your kids and not do
anything?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
No.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Good.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Maybe, yeah, no, I remember Marley being really
small and bringing her to youthgroup, and then Harry and then
Oliver and it kind of was justwhat it was.
We went to church and did youthgroup and then harry and then
oliver and they kind of justjust what it was.
We went to church, um, and anddid youth group, but I remember
you know, my sole focus was thechildren but, um, just being
there as just a support to you,you know, juggling kids, naps
(06:37):
and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, and we had, I mean, a lot of support.
Family that would come at timesand watch the kids in the house
once they got a little older.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yes, yeah, yeah, I do remember that too.
We had some family taken, likeMarley and Harry, for the
evenings that we could, and thatwas their service to us to be
able to then go and serve thechurch in that way, which was
really sweet.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
So, when we talk about not marrying, the ministry
there is on the other side ofthings, though don't let the
pendulum swing to the other side, and what we demonstrate to our
children by what we do inmodeling is that the local
church matters and that ministryis important.
(07:23):
And so, when they were youngand we're going out, we're not
neglecting them, because a lotof times and what we have done
is we've brought them in andalongside of, but having
children does not mean that's my.
All of a sudden, I'm out ofministry.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, I think it was helpful for us.
We had an elder in our churchwho at the time, who really was
safeguarding us as a youngfamily, a big priority of his
was helping you have a goodbalance of work, ministry and
then family.
(08:01):
And I think from the very startwe found a really good balance
of that where you weren't outmultiple times a week and there
was plenty of family time athome, but then we would go out
and do youth group together.
So I think there was a goodbalance of we served together
but we also had family time athome, and then there were times
where you had to go out and doyouth group for a while too.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, in those early years for sure, because ministry
, student ministry, but allministry is unpredictable, right
, you can't predict the crisis,the emergency, when it's a true
emergency and there has to be awillingness to hold time loosely
(08:46):
tightly but also be willing tolet it go.
And, yeah, there were timeswhere, like I got that call and
I had to go, or you know that,that crisis moment that I had to
deal with counseling,counseling that is unpredictable
and through it all, you neverpressure, and still do not
(09:09):
pressure me to not do ministry,and for that I absolutely am
thankful because I'm sure itcould be a real challenge with
at home.
The spouse is like give me, meand mine.
And why are you doing all this?
(09:29):
For you know that would just be, but there's an understanding
there.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Well, I think for me from the very start.
I remember we went toBeavertail that one night when
we were dating and we had like areal conversation of like you
saying, hey, I want to be in theministry.
This was while we were datingand we had like a real
conversation of like you saying,hey, I'm, I want to be in the
ministry.
This was while we were dating,um, I'm going to be in the
ministry.
Like this is, this is you know,the calling I feel God is
(09:56):
leading me to.
And I, after kind of thinkingabout it for a while, I was like
, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm in.
Like this is, this is what Iwant, this is what I want for my
life, this is what I think Godwants for me in being in
relationship with you.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Okay, so from that night like 12, probably 12 years
ago, maybe even longer, how'sit going?
How, how's?
How has these 12 years sinceyou said, yeah, I'm all in any
(10:31):
regrets?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah.
So definitely has had its upsand downs and, quite honestly,
there have definitely been timeswhere I would be okay if we
were not in the positions thatwe were in.
It's hard.
Ministry is hard and it can behard.
I think, again, we've done areally good job at not letting
(10:58):
it affect our relationship.
But there have definitely beentimes where I I'm thinking is
this worth it?
This is hard and people arehard and these situations are
hard and this circumstance isreally hard, you know, and
that's a hard, but then there'salso lots and lots and lots of
(11:19):
good, and I and we're not calledto easy and we're not called to
a straight, easy path.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So knowing what you know now, if you could talk to
your younger self 12 years ago,what would you say concerning
the ministry and marriage.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Buckle up, it's going to be a ride.
Oh, get you.
You better get thick skin.
Listen, I love roller coasters.
I've loved roller coasters eversince I can remember um this is
, this is the the wildest rollercoaster I've ever been on um.
(12:02):
But I I would say that ourchurch has always been,
especially since you know, we'vebeen raising young, a young
family, and I do feel like ourchurch has been very special in
that they've allowed me to notfeel overstretched in my
ministry.
I I feel like there's been alot of understanding in that
(12:23):
she's kind of in the thick ofthings at home, raising littles
and homeschooling, and so I dothink our church family has been
very gracious in that way andnot expecting too much out of me
personally in ministry, andthat's helped quite a bit.
So I'm thankful for that.
And also we can say that thisis we're talking obviously as
(12:45):
like a pastor's family at thispoint.
But ministry is anything andeverything, whether you're a
Sunday school teacher, whetheryou're just a helper in a Juana,
in all of those capacities.
So ministry takes on so manydifferent forms and can affect a
relationship at all levels.
(13:07):
It's not just as pastor'sfamily, so we're talking
specifically in our ownexperience, but in general I
think this could be helpful inany relationship when you're in
ministry.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, I mean there needs to be buy-in from husband
and wife.
There can't be like one partythat is like kind of on the
fence and then the other personwants to go all in, because
That'll cause tension andfriction at home.
Yeah, and typically and I don'twant to seem like I'm
(13:44):
overgeneralizing, but I wouldfeel like and you can correct me
if I'm wrong but the man wantsto go and do all this ministry
stuff and the wife is kind oflike, hey, you're leaving me at
home all alone.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, I think I can see that being the case.
I do know women who arego-getters and extroverts and
want to do all the things wheretheir husbands are not that way.
And so there is that other sideof it too.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, and I think of just when Paul talks to Timothy
about.
You know, this is thequalifications of a man who's
going to lead in the church hehas to be able to manage his own
household well.
Right, going to lead in thechurch, he has to be able to
manage his own household well.
So if your marriage, if tensioncomes into your marriage
(14:43):
because of different ideas ofministry involvement, you are
getting really close to notmeeting a qualification.
If you manage your householdwell, you know you have to be
like there needs to be buy-inand kind of like that night at
Beavertail we both were signingblank checks.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah Right, we had no idea.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Well, I'm a second generation pastor, so I've got
to.
I witnessed in my, like,teenage years and early 20s,
learning through observation, umfrom my father and then working
alongside him throughout theyears.
But, uh, nonetheless, there isstill a level of you're only
(15:24):
going to understand it when youexperience it.
And, um, it wasn't like we werelike, hey, let's sign up, for
you know, this is, you know,this booming church, and like
we've had to plow and most ofour stuff.
It's in weird ways, it seemedlike planting a church in a
church.
All I never have taken over oneestablished ministry.
(15:46):
The only ministries I've everreally been doing are the ones
that I've been, you know, byGod's grace, with a team
creating and building.
And so I mean, even at the verybeginning, we started that
Sunday school class becausethere wasn't one.
It wasn't like a Sunday schoolteacher had retired and didn't
have anything.
Well, all right, lord, let'swalk into this.
(16:08):
So, yeah's, definitely I don'tlike roller coasters.
Um, oh, we're at the on thatstarship 3000 at the fair.
I still feel sick when I thinkabout it.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
But yeah, it's been a ride of some ups and downs,
great victories and a lot ofpain yeah, I think I think on my
end too I can think of somewomen who kind of have come
alongside me In the times whereI wasn't really able to be
physically with you.
In ministries like Youth Group,there were women who would come
(16:44):
alongside and family who wouldeither take the children or come
over and, while you were atYouth Group, come and kind of
help me around the house andjust have company.
And so I always thought thatthat was really special too,
that there were a couple ofwomen who were willing to do
that for us as just a support ofour family, which was sweet.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah for sure, and I'm thankful for the godly men
in my life that in kind ofdifferent areas were able to
invest.
And yeah, you were talking aboutsomething earlier.
That just kind of reminds me Ihad to draw some hard lines
pretty early on and there waskind of a move of a flurry of
(17:33):
busyness.
And one pastor that has beenmeaningful to me throughout the
years that I've listened to, Iwas listening to him early on
and he was talking about how heprioritized his days and he said
he would have his mornings werefor God, his afternoons were
for people and he said he wouldhave his mornings were for God,
(17:54):
his afternoons were for peopleand his evenings were for family
when the kids were little.
And he said what does it profitme to gain the whole church but
to lose my family?
And that right there reallystuck hard and I thought about
okay, I could basically leave mychildren could become orphans,
(18:16):
functional orphans or a singleparent home, because dad is
always taking care of all ofthese things and I didn't want
to miss bedtimes and bath timesand letting little Marley do my
hair when she's a couple yearsold.
And so I set aside and I toldthe line and I said I will not
(18:40):
be out three nights in a row onreoccurring functional
ministries.
I'm not going to be out Tuesdaynight, wednesday night,
thursday night in addition toSunday night.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Thursday night in addition to Sunday night, and I
need to have some family dinnersand I need to just be dad to
these children and the ministrywill be there and I'm not going
to neglect or be lazy and I knowif something comes up I need to
go and, fully supported by Kate, but the regular rhythm I can't
(19:13):
do that.
So finding out, okay, how can Istill get in time with people
and Saturday mornings with withmen, um, things like that,
recognizing that those that areworking during the week they
can't.
So just being strategic and themanagement of time and
prioritizing what is mostimportant, because you will
(19:36):
always make time for what's mostimportant to you.
And so those were some of theboundaries.
If there was, like a lot ofministry output, you know in
those early years of studentministry, go until nine o'clock
at night on a Thursday, Iwouldn't be up and at it at six
(20:00):
or 7 am on Friday.
If I was gone all day Thursday,I would try to spend a little
more time in the morning withfamily and then, you know, go
off to the office or somethinglike that.
And so just trying to workthose things out where I'm being
faithful to what I'm called todo, both in my vocation and in
(20:22):
my home and the roles that Ihave there husband, father, and
so those are just kind ofpractical things that you know
I've tried to do throughout theyears.
So we've talked around it.
We've talked about differentprioritizing time, structuring
days, safeguarding some familytime In the midst of ministry,
(20:48):
which is unconventional in itstiming.
Um, you know, get the questionhow many hours a week do you
work?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
that it's a really hard question to answer yeah, um
because it's every text, everyphone call, every question,
every meeting, every timeputting into sermon prep and all
of that.
It's hard to timestamp thosethings.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, I know, and especially like it's not even
rated on time, it's outcomes anddeadlines and oof.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
To just put like a stamp on time of what you do.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
I hit my hours for the week.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I'm done Right Because you have Joe Schmoe
who's like texting you atheological question.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I don't think Mr Schmoe would appreciate that you
should use someone else's name,right?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Sure Sure.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I mean seeking to be accessible but not always Right,
Drawing some of those lines andboundaries.
What are ways in which you andI have been able to safeguard
our marriage, to maintain ahealthy marriage, in the midst
(22:07):
of, I mean, I mean, the manychallenges that we have faced
from just the nature of theministry?
What are some things that havebeen helpful?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Oh, I think, still having good communication and
expectations of what our days orweeks look like, staying on
each other's team and notletting something come in
between us, knowing that it'sfrom the outside and it's not to
put a wedge between the two ofus.
I don't think there's ever beena situation in ministry that
we've come across that has put awedge between the two of us, I
think, knowing that we're doingthis as a team.
(22:53):
So even if you have to go outand do a meeting, I'm supporting
you in that.
Really, I think, prioritizingeach other.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
And I support your ministry too when you need to.
Let's not make it all soundone-sided that Caitlin's just
like oh, I'm your cheerleader athome, but there are things that
you can do because of who youare, that I can't do.
There are people you can talkto that I can't talk to Crossing
(23:24):
that gender line.
You know it would be, and so ohyeah, and you know.
You with the ladies and women'sministry stuff and those kinds
of things where you can engagewith young moms or moms of many
and like, what can I do?
I can, I can support and say,hey, I'm going to, I got the
kids, I'm going to, I'll makedinner tonight and you go out
(23:47):
and do that thing that you needto do as well, because I want to
support you as you're seekingto love Jesus and love people.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Oh yeah, I mean Sunday mornings are both
supporting each other.
I have to go to music practicereally early and even if those
are mornings where you're, youknow, finalizing sermon prep or
like reviewing your sermon, youknow you're still watching all
the kids while I'm going out tomusic practice.
So you know what?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
let me bring that up for a second, because there's
going to be a time where we'regoing to look back on the season
that we're in right now andwe're going to say, wow, and
let's remember this podcast andlisten back to it in I don't
know 15 years.
But right now you are the musiccoordinator for the church.
(24:35):
Between the two of us, weorganize and write the order of
service every week.
You lead the music team inpreparation and practice for the
songs I'm preaching regularlypretty regularly and teaching a
Sunday school class prior tothat, and you have music
(25:00):
practice at 8 o'clock in themorning.
So you have to get up, getyourself ready, you make food
for everyone there are fivechildren in the house that have
to get dressed and you colorcoordinate them from head to toe
so their outfits all match andthey look clean okay you're out
the door at eight o'clock.
(25:20):
I need to do my final sermonpreps.
So I'm studying for the sermon,rallying the troops like 8 50,
getting five kids in the car torush over to church teach a
Sunday school class, comeupstairs, try to be bubbly and
(25:41):
ready to go and if I haveservice lead, I've got call to
worship pastoral prayer.
You have to jump on the piano.
You got to jump on the pianoand then I'm going to go preach
a 42-minute sermon.
You got to jump on the pianoand then I'm going to go preach
a 42-minute sermon.
So by the time noon hits onSunday Also getting the kids to
Sunday schools and nurseries andchildren's church.
Oh yeah, All that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Oh no, we're beat Sunday afternoon.
Also.
I was just talking to someonerecently about what goes into
being a pastor and pastor's wifeon a Sunday morning.
You also kind of have to havelike multiple personalities, in
that you know you talk to oneperson with one personality and
(26:25):
one conversation and you have toremember details about them and
their life and then you have togo and you have to go talk to
another person with theirpersonality and their life and
their problems and their thingsand it's it.
I mean it's encouraging andit's wonderful and I do love
Sundays.
There's joy in that.
But there is a lot of likemental exertion that also goes
(26:49):
into that part of a sundaymorning besides music and sermon
and sunday school like it's.
It is exhausting so by oneo'clock.
The last few weeks we have beenlike vegging on sunday
afternoons because, it is justit can be utterly exhausting, on
(27:12):
top of kids and pregnancy andall of those things so I have.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
In my previous life I was a carpenter and built
houses, frame to finish, and Ihad some long days, some very
physical days of building andframing, and there are some
Sundays that I am far moreexhausted from, just like
(27:40):
everything, than some of themost intense construction days.
And there's a lot going on tojust the whole thing.
And we show up and all that isseen is, oh, the souls are here,
hi how you doing it's like man.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, we have definitely.
There have been some times thatwe've talked about, about
ministry, about how we wouldlove to just be able to go to
church on a Sunday morning,worship and go home.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Okay, so here is one of the great benefits of
marriage and ministry when weget to travel and we get to be
nobodies when you show up at achurch.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I love being a nobody in church.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
It's refreshing to be able to just go to church and
worship and just be in the pew.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah, and to talk to other fellow believers.
It's just when you get askedthe question oh, what do you do?
Yeah.
And I'm like oh, I'm a pastor.
Oh, really weird.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
That is really refreshing to be able to do that
Because we don't ever.
Just I mean it is rare if weare going to church and there is
no, we have no hand in theservice in any way, but it's
always nice when that does kindof happen.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Enjoy ministry, love it.
It is a roller coaster.
I wouldn't trade anything,almost anything.
No, I wouldn't trade anythingAlmost anything?
No, I wouldn't.
There's no greater joy thanserving King Jesus.
What?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
it boils down to is the why why we do what we do?
And having sort of almost likea mission statement of, because
there will be times where youwill question is this really
what we're called to do?
Is this what I want to do?
Um, and just kind of having a awhy statement, um is really
(29:42):
helpful.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
yeah, I mean you have to.
You have to because that'swhat's going to sustain you.
It's not the people.
People, it's not.
This is my job.
It's that I have been called byJesus to spend and be spent for
his church, to suffer for thesake of the gospel, in whatever
(30:06):
location, because people comeand people go.
Ministries change, dnas ofchurches, cultures change,
churches change, and you needsomething that's far more rock
solid than that.
I've been betrayed, I've beenburned, I've been lied to, I've
(30:27):
been slandered.
I have been at the wrong end ofmany people's conversations,
misrepresented and treated invery unkind ways by people that
call themselves Christians, andthat's a challenge.
You don't just oh, how manyhours a week do you work?
(30:49):
Oh, I can turn that off nowbecause it's 5 o'clock.
Just, oh, how many hours a weekdo you work?
Oh, I can turn that off nowbecause it's five o'clock.
But at the same time, for allthose negatives, there's been
great positives.
I've seen lives changed.
I've seen people come up andthen go into the ministry, I've
seen disciples making disciples,and so these things happen If
(31:17):
there's not opposition, ifyou're not facing opposition, I
wonder, are you really making adifference?
And so, throughout our time, weface those things, but the good
far outweighs the negative.
You do need a why.
Why do I do the things that Ido?
And it has to be more than yourown self-determination.
But when talking about theministry and marriage, we must
(31:40):
safeguard it.
Talk often, share wins andlosses, successes and failures.
Be open.
Men in ministry confide andshare not all of this stuff.
There are things that you knowyou don't even your wife doesn't
need to know about, and that'syou know at the elder level of
(32:02):
things at times.
But share, find support.
I mean, your greatest teammateis your wife, is your spouse,
and it needs to stay that way.
But also, you know, in seasonswhere ministry is very demanding
, you need to be able to pressthe pause button.
(32:24):
You need to be able to breathe,because if not, you're just
going to burnout, and burnoutwill wreck your marriage.
So prioritize that too.
You're not qualified if youcan't manage your household well
.
So 12 years ago at Beavertailyou said I'm all in, We'll talk
again in 12 more years.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
As of right now, still going well.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Keep crushing it, kate.
Any other thoughts?
Great, I have a meeting.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Well, there you go.
All right, I want to thank youfor listening to the Pleasing
God podcast.
If you have any questions, Iwould love to hear from you.
You could reach out atquestions at
pleasinggodpodcastorg.
And remember 1 Thessalonians4.3,.
This is the will of God, yoursanctification.
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