Floods, Fires, and Fungi

Today's guest, an old pal of the Cordts Plumbing family: Otto Katechis of Jogsaw PMR from Oradell, New Jersey. Otto has been our remediation guy in the wake of home disasters for years now, and now that Plumb Bums is video, Otto has returned to grace us with his wisdom

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Since 1961, Court's plumbing has offered friendly, reliable service to residences all over Bergen County, New Jersey.

(00:09):
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(00:37):
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(01:28):
Sponsoring Red Bull, or hopefully get sponsored by Red Bull.
We won our $25.
We need a disaster season, and it's just not happening. Sorry to all our customers, but we need your boilers to fail. We need your water lines to break.

(02:05):
We need that to survive. We thrive on chaos.
We have our cleanup crew, the main guy of our cleanup crew, Jigsaw PMR Auto, Cateches, from Jigsaw PMR. Jigsaw is actually sponsoring the next couple episodes, right? We're going to break for commercial for that.

(02:35):
We're going to break for commercial for commercial for commercial.
We're going to break for commercial for commercial for commercial.

(03:06):
Do I have to look at you when I'm talking?
80 degrees in November. No boilers contracted yet. Usually we have several under our belt.
It's weird to wake up in the morning and need to turn on the AC.

(03:32):
I took out the AC out of the studio and I'm fanning myself. I saw somebody thermostat today. I went up to their top floor. Their heat is completely off. It's 76 degrees in the top floor of their house.
It sucks to the industry that all three of us are in. There's a season where we do thrive off destruction and chaos.

(03:53):
You know how you know it's a little bit weird? Because every time I walk into the supply house, it doesn't matter what trade it is. Are you guys busy? What's going on? Are you busy? Am I busy?
Yeah. Are you busy, Otto?
We're steady. We're steady too. I'm okay with steady. I'm okay with steady. Steady pays the bills.

(04:15):
We're not making, you know, we're paying the bills, getting the guys, the guys are working. Everyone's good. We're not putting that extra money that we want to put on the side, but we're steady.
You're maintaining right now. Well, you know, we're in a transition period. Season, presidential. It's a rough time right now.
DJT is bringing the heat. That's why it's not cooling down.

(04:39):
I've never heard. Why don't I never hear DJT? Oh, I want to write to like DJ. Yeah, like DJ Khaled or something.
Yeah.
What a crowd. You know what? I'm going to say about the election. We don't really like to get political on the show, but I'm glad it's over.
Yes. It's done. It's over. There's nothing anyone can do. It's over. It's done.

(05:02):
Listen, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter. It hasn't just begun. No, it doesn't matter. I still, you still have to get up and go to work. Yeah. So it's all matter.
It doesn't. Yeah. I mean, there's been Democrat, Republican presidents back and forth. You still got to get up and go to work.
I still got to get up to go to work and doesn't matter who wins. My bills, nobody going to pay for them. Exactly.
So yeah. So it's, thank God that election season is done. Yeah. Well, it depends who you vote for. Your bills might get paid for.

(05:30):
So we do get a little political on this post. So how's your Halloween? What did you do for Halloween, Max?
Do you look like the type of guy that...
Is this because you want me to ask you what you did for Halloween? Because I know what you did for Halloween.
Why ask you first?
I didn't do anything for Halloween. I'm almost 30 years old.
See, this is what I'm talking about. This is what I'm talking about.

(05:51):
Here's the thing between me and Max. If you ever sit in the truck, you think I'm constantly...
So I ask him an honest question from the heart because my heart is pure.
And he goes, why are you asking me that? What is the motive behind you asking me that? Why do you want to know what I did for Halloween?
You always have a motive. How was your trip to Gettysburg?
What would you do for Halloween?

(06:12):
I didn't do anything. I don't do anything for Halloween. It's not a holiday that I get excited about.
I thought you usually dressed up like a cowboy.
But I know it's your favorite holiday.
Well, it has been a favorite holiday of mine for a long time.
You used to be in the local papers. I remember you telling me... Every year you actually tell me you were in the local paper in Dumont
because your house was the best dressed house in the neighborhood.
Every year? I should tell you because it was phenomenal.

(06:33):
I know. And I'm proud of you.
I used to live in a house with like five of my buddies. And it was a corner lot out in Dumont.
And huge property. Or Dumont. Okay. Nice big... I think he had like a double lot driving back garage.
We decorated every square inch of that property with like different scenes.
There's a big yard next to the back of the house. And you can see up from the street, huge graveyard I put in with fog coming from the ground.

(06:59):
I had splits in the earth with orange light shining up that looked like pits to hell through the cemetery.
Oh, wow. Oh, dude, I had rotating skeletons on spits.
Like when you walked around the house, I had a haunted cornfield in the front.
The front was open with a serial killer room where my brother would sit and scare people with machetes and stuff.
And then you walked to the front of the house and it made it look like the entrance to like this crazy asylum.

(07:24):
And I had skeletons hanging from the trees, everything in the windows. It was so much fun.
Halloween's the most fun holiday. Name a more fun holiday.
I can't name a more fun holiday, but my favorite holiday is Thanksgiving. We're just coming up.
That's my favorite holiday because...
That's my favorite holiday because...
Halloween's the most fun.
I mean, I think Thanksgiving is more fun because it's more family oriented, I feel.

(07:47):
My favorite holiday. I like Christmas.
Christmas also.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, so we got a pretty diverse plot pattern.
So I know these guys now what I know you guys like four or five years.
You know, you're very passive aggressive.
I mean, that's no secret.
I'm actually less passive aggressive and more aggressive aggressive, I would say.

(08:08):
That too.
It starts off passive aggressive in the morning and then by the afternoon.
I'll go from zero to 100.
Yeah.
Like these guys, it's like they're married.
We get that all the time or would they think we're brothers or something?
Yeah.
Twins.
Yeah.
Like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito are twins.
So, but you're stuck in the truck with the same guy all day.

(08:31):
You're developing this relationship and you both are just breathing down each other's neck all day long.
You have two trucks.
And you're just right.
Well, we're on the same jobs.
I'm on the phone with them all the time.
Like it's just, you know what I mean?
Yeah, I know.
So it's going to happen.
It's it is it.
That's what happens in in like blue collar industries.
Yeah, I know.
So I have the same.

(08:53):
You're pulling like you got to talk.
You got to talk into it.
I have the same thing with my with my son.
So he's he's finishing up college now and you know, it's we're always on the phone always doing this.
And it's like, you know, I need a break from you.
Well, how how is that going?
Because I remember listen, I worked for my dad for a few years.
I still work with my dad every once in a while, but it's it's not easy.

(09:15):
We had this conversation today because it's you know, he works with his uncle.
He works with his aunt.
It's hard to work with your family.
It's easy, but it's hard.
It's got his pros and his cons.
So what's it like working with your son now?
Yeah, I would say it's hard.
But it's a good hard.
It's like you're we're fighting for the same thing.

(09:38):
So we're butting heads, but we're butting heads for better different ideas for the same goal.
For the same goal.
Yeah, you know, I'm I'm a little bit more old school and he's a lot more, you know, a bull in a Chinese shop type now because he's young.
Yeah, you're also Greek.
So it's like very stubborn.
He's a little country.
You're a little bit rock and roll.
No, I don't want to say that he's he's more he's more.

(10:02):
Like more definite to say, I don't want to do something and he doesn't think of the repercussions when you're doing.
Oh, I know that very well.
Right.
So I know that very well and so much as I'm not doing that.
So but then I explain it to him the reasons why we have to do certain things and he understands.
Yeah.

(10:23):
Yeah.
So he's learning the industry.
He is.
He is, you know, he's finishing up college.
Not that he wanted to go.
I forced him to go.
Yeah.
Well, that is what it is.
You're from a generation that you're supposed to go to college, get a degree and then pick what you want to do.
No, the reason why I forced him to go was I finished only I finished community college and at some points in my life, I had a it was very difficult to find a job, a profession to be able to support your family.

(10:55):
I'm pulling this over.
Okay.
There you go.
So it was hard to find a job or something to support support your family.
So I figured with both my kids, they both need a college education.
If they don't use it, it's okay.
Yeah.
But I always want them to be able to have something to fall back on.
That makes sense.

(11:17):
Have a plan.
Right.
Just just for that.
But did he need to go to college?
No.
Well, you've seen you've seen our show, you know, we talk about college a lot.
Well, I don't I don't believe I don't believe that especially as blue collar tradesmen.
I think that the in the next 10 years, maybe even sooner, the tradesmen are going to be a lot more better off than what they are today.

(11:42):
Do you think college will be obsolete?
No, I don't think I don't think it's going to be obsolete because you have that group of people that need to go to college.
Yeah, you have those professions that need you need to go to college.
But how many but how many how many doctors and how many lawyers?
Doesn't take the screw on the light bulb.
Well, besides we have I'm not saying, you know, we all need our doctor.

(12:05):
We all have our lawyer.
But how many do we need?
How many computer science people do we need?
Yeah, like my niece just graduated five years.
Computer science.
Yeah.
You can't find the job.
Yeah.
And she's working as a waitress.
Computer science is what programming and stuff like that.
So she she she.
Advanced Excel spreadsheets.
So she studied.
I thought the whole thing was you go learn to code, go learn computers.

(12:29):
She's she studied for she's for five years and she's finished.
She graduated in May.
Can't find the job.
Where does she live around here?
Yeah, she lives in.
She lives in Yonkers.
She lives in New York City.
Can't find a job in New York City.
That's insane.
So, you know, do you need college?
No.
People are pressured to go to college.
We talked about on the last episode, you feel pressured.

(12:51):
Everyone graduates.
Oh, where are you going?
Where are you going?
Guidance counselors.
All they say is college.
So I think I think we discussed it on the last episode when my son was in high school.
My daughter, my daughter was different.
She she was more of the book type she wanted to she wanted to proceed.
Go forward.
My son, he didn't want to do.

(13:12):
So I went to his guidance counselor and his guidance counselor was, well, you have to
go to college.
You have to do this.
And we got into a fight with the guidance counselor and I for and I told her, why don't you say
anything else college?
No, it was like, why don't you tell these kids to become carpenters, electricians, plumbers,
HVAC.
Oh, no, no, no.
Absolutely not.

(13:33):
No, everyone goes through a guidance counselor's push.
You know, I think it is not to interrupt you, but the amount of kids that graduate your
high school and go to college, you use that as a stat to say our high school is better.
We're sending more kids to college.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Right.
But then, you know, like you have somebody that goes to college and then all of a sudden
four or five years later, they come out with $150,000 in debt.

(13:56):
They make $20,000 a year and so you went to college.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I have an unpopular opinion.
Our viewers are not going to like this.
I actually think education should end at eighth grade and high school should be optional because
tell me one thing.
What did you learn in high school?

(14:17):
I don't know.
Answer the question.
What did I learn?
I didn't learn anything.
Nothing.
Nothing.
It was just.
Everything I learned was up to eighth grade.
Everything I retained was in eighth grade.
But I think high school and college get you ready, not professional wise.
Like not into professional field.

(14:38):
I think it gets you ready to be able to have conversate, to be able to converse.
I see it.
Why wouldn't you learn that and like go into work?
I think with the, you get your working papers what, 14?
That's when you're a freshman in high school?
Yeah.
Is it 14?
It's an uncomfortable topic.

(14:59):
It's an uncomfortable topic to talk about because I think it is true but people don't
want to set their kids.
The reason why people set their kids to college is because they don't want them to fail.
But the problem is they don't want them to fail in life and the problem is that you,
your, your babe, not that you're babing your child, but sometimes people need to fail to

(15:20):
learn, you know?
And that's why people send their kids to college because you think it's a safety net and reality
like your niece who went to college, she can't find a job so she's waitressing.
She could have been waitressing since 15, 16.
So when my son was in high school, you know, I've owned my own business for, I don't even

(15:42):
know how many years.
So when my son was in high school, I said, you know, you need to find the job.
You know, he was, he was, you know, sort of my dad.
15, 16 years old and you know, he was home playing video games and I, and I thought that
he should just go and go to work.

(16:03):
Let's get out of the house.
Just to get out of the house and no, it's not only get out of the house.
You have to teach them financial responsibility.
Yeah.
It's not just the work.
It's all the lessons that come with it.
Create relationships.
You don't get that in high school.
You don't learn, you don't learn.
Here's my, let me explain my opinion.

(16:25):
I told you.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
So anyway, I, he said, I sent them and he went to work at the, at a supermarket.
So he was working at a supermarket at $13 an hour and he was getting used, used and,
you know, being overworked and he would come home and he would complain.
You know, they're doing this to me.
I said, well, suck it up.

(16:46):
Yeah.
If you don't go to school, you're a low man on the ton of point.
If you don't go to school and if you don't do something with yourself that's going to
better yourself and do whatever, this is the way, where you're going to live for the rest
of your life.
Well, so you become a manager.
Big deal.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, you're right.
Big deal.
We have a lot of grocery checkout people that watch this show.
They might find that offensive.

(17:07):
I'm just kidding.
We may.
We may advertise in the local shop, right?
So be careful.
Yeah.
I don't mean it.
Auto just got us canceled.
I don't mean it in a bad way.
Of course.
Yeah.
Like for me, the way I grew up, the way I grew up, I grew up with tough love and that's
what I know.
Yeah.
So if somebody, you know, if, if I'm guilty of tough love for my kids, because I want

(17:29):
to see them to move forward, then I'm guilty of it.
Let's move on.
What do you say?
We, I think we hit college.
I think you pretty much summed it up.
I did.
Well, I think as far, so your son's going to college and he's about to take over from
you.
Correct.
He still has that degree to fall out of safety.
Yeah.

(17:50):
You, you see what we say about college all the time.
Yeah.
And I agree with that.
And to be honest, yeah.
And to back up.
What do you learn in high school?
That's, I don't, I took English.
I took, okay.
So I read the catcher and the Ryan did this stuff and like, I learned about world war.
I actually didn't really read.

(18:13):
I didn't read one book in high school.
That's the crazy part.
Like in high school, I was not a reader.
Like I didn't read anything.
And then when I got out of high school and I started working and doing all my stuff, I
became a lot more curious and I started reading books.
Yeah.
And I started like it interested me a lot more when somebody didn't force me to read

(18:34):
what they want to be.
So, so I'm Greek, right?
So in, in Greece, they have a place, a part of the school is part of through the, the
employment.
And they have the same employment agency, whatever the ministry is of employment for

(18:56):
kids.
So they, you go in and you take a test and it's, it's almost like an aptitude test,
but it tells you where you fall under the category for what to go study.
Oh yeah, I did that.
We did that.
Oh, well, when I did it, we didn't have that.
I don't remember what I got.
Right.
But yeah, we all, we all did that.

(19:17):
You don't have any idea what you want to do in high school.
You don't have any idea what you want to do in college.
No.
And that's, that's why I think you hit eighth grade.
You've learned all the basics.
You've learned pretty much everything now going to the real world.
Well, your brain not fully developed until you're like 26 anyway, something like that.
I'm 53.
I still have.
No, well, yeah.
Yeah.

(19:37):
You know what I mean, but I'm just saying like you're still thinking about things.
Yeah.
Let's do an official intro.
45 minutes later.
Okay.
Who the hell is this guy?
I don't even know.
We did a short little intro, but you know what we've been doing on the shows before
you came on?
I do a little plug for your, for your, for your business.

(19:57):
Jigsawpmr.com over there.
Okay.
We've been doing a little, I even have a little video that pops up.
Yeah.
Nice.
Right yesterday.
I'm going to try something and your video is right here.
Now I've added that in.
Jigsaw PMR property maintenance restoration.
You can help me out with the ad.
You know what?
Give me some pointers.

(20:18):
I'm going to go on through this season where, where I advertise your company.
Jigsaw PMR property maintenance registration.
Jigsaw.com fire, water, mold, fire, water, mold and sewage cleanup, sewage cleanup, spotless,
responsive there when you need them.
Yeah.
Reef case, full of little tools and like cool little gadgets.

(20:40):
Like you're like inspector gadget over there.
Uh huh.
Like go out the front door and fly away on like a helicopter hat.
I wrote her that.
Did you watch that show?
Is that too old for you?
Nope.
I loved Inspector Gadget.
Me too.
I love that it was a show, but it was a movie with Matthew Broderick when I was a kid.
Oh, that's right.
Oh, that's what I loved.
I loved the movie here.
The movie.

(21:01):
The show was too early for me.
The show was great.
Da, da, da.
Inspector Gadget.
It was in the late, late 80s, early 90s.
It was early 90s.
Well, this show, yeah, but the late 90s, early 2000s was when the movie came out.
Jigsaw PMR 201 625 3206.
Can people text that number?
Yes.
They can.

(21:22):
They can text and call.
Let me add.
Well, so hold on.
So how'd you get that?
How'd you, how'd you get that be able to do that?
So that's that number is we actually paid a little bit to have it, but it's actually
a cellphone.
He's like getting choked up about.
I don't know.
I spent a little bit too much money on this.

(21:42):
That number is actually connected to a cellphone.
So during the day, somebody will always respond.
That's probably why they can't, they can't do it on our number because it started out
as a landline.
Right.
Well, that one started off as a, this number has started, it was a cellphone, then it
became a landline, then it became a cellphone again.
That's such BS to me.
Yeah.

(22:03):
Really, you can't take in today's day and age, you can't make this phone number where
I can text it.
It all rings to a cellphone anyway.
So my office manager, Monica, during the day picks up and then if you call that number
after three, three, after three 15, we have an answering service that picks up.
Really?
Yeah.

(22:23):
When'd you guys pick that up?
Two years ago.
Is it expensive?
Is it manageable?
Cause we're looking at the same thing.
Sorry, Nancy.
So the, the answering service.
Just for after hours.
That's why we got it.
And we got it mostly for after, not only for after hours, but we were doing Google Guarantee
or the LSA.

(22:45):
So with Google, if you didn't pick up the phone when it rang, you would get dinged and
you're, you know, you're the, you know, they would put you lower on the, on the, on the
totem pole.
So that's why you would get rated.
So that's why we got the, we had gotten the answering system because, you know, at that
time I was the one answering the phone.

(23:06):
So we got the, we got the answerings, the answering service for that.
But I just, you know, I stopped using.
I hear you.
Google.
Yeah.
Well, we talked about that.
You don't have to go into detail, but yeah.
So how long have you guys been in business?
So under Jigsaw, it's eight years.

(23:27):
And prior to that, I had another company and I had a partner and we split up in, in
the end of 17.
Well, how long for that?
I was another nine years with him.
Okay.
How'd you, how'd you get into this business?
Because you said you did a lot of other stuff and you said it's very difficult to support
a family doing other things.

(23:48):
So in, in, in the two, in 2008, when the housing bubble busted, we started a maintenance company
and we were doing a lot of maintenance on foreclosed homes.
Who's we?

(24:09):
Me and my partner.
Okay.
So we did a lot of maintenance on foreclosed homes.
So we would, you know, trash them out, clean them, maintain the lawn, do, do a snow removal.
We did a lot of winterizations in the, you know, when, for the seasons and then we would,
you know, we would de-winterize them and then we started seeing a lot of mold that was growing.

(24:35):
So in 2009, I got certified as a mold, as a mold remediator and then Hurricane Sandy
hit in 12.
So Ching.
And no, no, we, we weren't, we weren't 100% certified in water mitigation then.

(24:57):
Um, I saw what was happening to all the people with Hurricane Sandy.
Yeah.
And, uh, it really bothered me that a lot of people were taking advantage of.
Oh, you, you, I think you mentioned this on the, on your first episode.
Right.
And it's true.
Yeah.
We didn't, I mean, even, even till today, there's people that are still suffering from

(25:19):
12 years ago.
Yeah.
Cause you can be so weasely on the side with dealing with an insurance company.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And they were a lot, they're a lot of things.
What do you call them?
You call them not ambulance chasers.
What do you call them?
The fire chasers.
Fire chasers.
Yes.
But those are the, those are the guys that, you know, listen on a scanner and then sometimes
there's a fire.
They're running there.

(25:40):
Yeah.
So.
Do you think that would make you money?
In the short term probably.
Yeah, but it can, it really can because you can go in and you know, you just have to have
the homeowner sign, the sign.
Yeah.
So I mean in the short term like that for sure, but it's about reputation.
Yeah.
If you don't have a good reputation.

(26:00):
I can't see myself, I can't see myself being going up to a family or a homeowner that their
house just is burning as like, Hey, I saw my paperwork.
Yeah.
You know, well, there are people out there like that.
They're like they're plumbing.
They'll charge an old lady, you know, $20,000 for, you know, nonsense and you can get another
plumber in there to do it for nothing.

(26:20):
But.
Well, those companies have a lot of turnover.
They'll just change.
They'll close down, they'll open up under something else.
A lot of companies will stiff subcontractors, close down, open up something else.
It's all about your reputation.
What do you say to customers?
What do we say to customers when they ask, when we ask them, as you hear about us, all
the internet, oh, you know, we've been in business since 1961.
Yeah.

(26:41):
You know, same thing.
Same name, same phone number, all that stuff.
But I found, I don't know how it is with the plumbing industry today or how you guys get
your leads and how they come in.
But the best way for us is from word of mouth.
Well, us too.
Of course.

(27:01):
Absolutely us too.
Word of mouth.
Contractors, relationships with contractors are huge.
Yeah.
Well, I think, I think a lot of people, we, you know, we're all, we all get suckered in
and, you know, oh, let's do Google ads and let's do Google this and then advertise digitally
here and let's do, you know, social media and I think the best marketing is still relationship

(27:27):
marketing.
I think it's like the politician type shake shake a hand and move forward.
Do you know anybody that's good with this?
Yes, I do.
I have this guy.
Yeah.
I have this guy.
It builds on that.
That's it.
Just, I mean, the one was it when we did, when we opened up that little, my location,
then we had that opening.
How many people did you meet that day?

(27:48):
A good handful.
A couple of them that have been on the podcast.
Uh-oh.
Yeah.
Matt, my good friend.
Yeah.
Very good friend.
I think, I don't know how those companies manage, well, the way I assume they do is they
open up, close down, try to get a whole bunch of volume.
Like these big plumbing companies have TV commercials and stuff like that.

(28:08):
They're not worried about making sure the customer's happy or this or that.
It's a numbers game.
It's a numbers game.
You're just going to flood the market with your logo.
If everyone call you, you don't need to repeat customers because your phone's ringing off
the hook.
Yeah.
But when you start out small, like us, you know, and you keep a small family business,
you keep the same customers for 40.

(28:28):
We have customers that have been here since my grandfather was like a couple of years
into it.
Mid-60s, late-60s, early-70s that have called us for plumbing that long.
And what is that, that's a testament to the customer service you put forward.
Right.
So this whole fly by night.

(28:49):
Test my Lord Jesus Christ.
It is actually, my grandfather became a Christian through this business, but...
Oh, really?
Yeah.
This is testimony.
Court's plumbing.
The one guy...
Oh, I forgot his name.
Did the plumbing industry, did the plumbing business test his patience and his faith?
They tested everything.

(29:09):
So my grandfather was a bit of a drinker, more than a bit of a drinker.
Okay.
He had a very bad drinking problem.
Everybody was.
Everyone back then did.
Everybody had a drinking problem in the 60s.
I know I told this story, I told this story like on the first or second episode or something
like that, but seven kids growing up in River Edge grew up in Elizabeth, New Jersey, which

(29:31):
has not changed since back then.
Like it's the same.
Shout out to Papa.
Yeah.
Yeah, you have your family has a business down in Elizabeth, New Jersey for what, 30 years?
30, 35 years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you would not believe how insanely for a not nice area, how insanely expensive it

(29:54):
is.
It's crazy.
There are houses in Elizabeth, New Jersey going for over a million dollars.
I believe it.
Yeah.
On major highways, because everything is a major highway over there.
In Patterson right now, like I own a couple of rentals in Patterson.
The prices are unbelievable.
Yeah.
I, that's where he grew up.

(30:17):
It's been Elizabeth the whole time.
Okay.
He had a really rough childhood.
Was a drinker.
Seven kids.
Catholic family.
Well, seven kids.
Seven kids, Catholic family.
Really rough life.
My family grew up with.
So he had to go to a customer several times because some stupid toilet valve wouldn't catch

(30:41):
this stupid little job that should be in and out 15 if you had to go back three times.
And every time he went, the customer would tell him about Jesus and just talk and just
sit behind him and sit in the bathroom and talk about Jesus the whole time.
My grandfather had it.
And the second day he got pissed off and then he had to call back.
He's like, I can't believe I have to go back to this house for a third time.
The third time something hit him, he knelt down and prayed with the, with the customer.

(31:06):
He came a Christian.
Please let this flapper work.
That was the prayer my grandfather was praying.
I will give my life to you if this flapper works.
He prays with the customer, accepts Jesus into his heart, becomes a Christian right
then and there.
That night comes home, opens a beer to take a drink, throws up everywhere uncontrollably,

(31:29):
cannot drink alcohol from that moment on.
That day cannot hold down liquor.
Really?
And he was a drunk.
I'm saying violent drunk.
Wow.
That first day, God took that away out of his life.
But here was the tricky thing.
Now okay, God takes away the drink.
Now he's angry because he doesn't have his booze.

(31:51):
Yeah.
So the abuse didn't go away.
No, I'm just kidding.
So God takes away that like, I don't know why I'm preaching out whatever you guys.
This is my day.
God takes that away from his life.
God takes that big thorn in his side.
In his life.
But now puts it on his shoulders to start working on what is the root of all those problems.

(32:12):
And you know, you know what I mean?
So like people are like, cool, what's God going to do for me?
He may take away some serious problems, but you have to put in the effort to work in it.
And then with my whole family, he became a preacher in a hard time.
One by one, my whole family became Christians, cousins out like out West.
Everyone started to accept Jesus.
So he started this thing where it just flourished through the whole family, the companies flourished.

(32:37):
He like, that's that's like the start of course.
Yeah, but I think that's, you know, I believe that there's something greater than me out
there.
No, there's nothing greater than you.
No, there's something greater than me.
There's something.
That's the name of the podcast, by the way.
There's nothing greater than you out there.
There's something greater.
There's something greater out there than than what we can see.

(32:59):
We don't have to get too into this.
No, no, no, of course.
But I think you just believe in a, if you believe in something, a lot of things can
happen that will make you better.
I wish I had that.
The more you know, like soundtrack.
If you just believe.
No, but that's, I think that's, you know what, we've been rambling about nothing.

(33:20):
This has been basically a Seinfeld episode for 35 minutes.
Isn't it beautiful?
Let's take a break.
And then we'll get into some like meat of your move over to the new location.
I thought you were talking about gyros.
Meat.
Oh, there's a Greek place right across the street.
Yeah, I know that one.
Delicious.
A taste of Greece.
Yeah.

(33:40):
Best bagel place.
Next to it.
It's a Greek guy.
Yep.
George.
Really, really good.
Let's take a break.
We'll come back.
We'll delve in.
What are you doing making bagels?
I thought it's soufflakis and gyros.
What are you doing making bagels?
Well, the Greeks too, you know.
The Greeks will dabble and everything.
They were big in bagel stores, diners, coffee shops, restaurants, florists.

(34:02):
Florists?
Yeah.
There's actually a, no, no, straight, but florists.
I don't know.
And there's actually a big florist in Montfiel.
That's their Greek.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Entrepreneurs.
The Greeks are entrepreneurs.
Yep.
Anywhere that money could be made.

(34:23):
The Greeks will find it.
Yeah.
Because it's not in Greece.
All right.
Let's take a little, take a quick break, folks, and we'll be right back.
Call courts plumbing and heating.

(34:48):
Top rated plumbers in North Jersey for over 60 years.
And don't forget to keep treats for Frankie on hand.
They'll help to subdue her carnal, animalistic nature.
Jigsaw PMR Property Maintenance Restoration in Oradell, New Jersey, ready to tackle the
toughest disasters affecting your home or business.

(35:10):
With state of the art equipment and years of experience, our responsive staff will get
you back home quicker than anyone else.
Check us out at jigsawpmr.com and follow our cleanup journey on Instagram and Facebook.
Give us a call at 201-425-4855.
Jigsaw PMR Restoring Piece of Money.

(35:55):
All right, guys.
Welcome back to Plum Bumps Podcast, the Everyman's Podcast.
Thanks for joining us here today on this summer day in November.
There was no, there was no passion in that.
You could see it.
You do the intro.
I could see it.
Do the intro one time.
Would you guys like to see this guy here doing the Anna Wanna?

(36:18):
Stop being, stop being a big baby.
Just do it.
Put some passion into that intro.
That intro was so depressing.
You mean example?
You mean example of a passionate intro?
All the other times that you've done it.
That one there, do I ever say that you don't have it?
No.
That one there is stunk.
All right, fine.
We'll start again.
It's because he's tired of you and wants a gyro.

(36:41):
A proud sniffer.
Proud sniffer.
I'm trying to help you in this, but...
Are you?
Just do the intro.
Are you?
Just do the intro.
Are you just trying to...
Are you just trying to...
All right, ready?
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to...
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Plum Bumps Podcast, the Everyman's Podcast, and

(37:08):
the Everyman's Podcast.
It truly is.
Oh, that's okay.
You proved.
That was great.
I felt it.
I felt it in my plums.
I just...
Gross.
In my dates.
You don't like bacon wrapped dates?
We're talking outside.
Bacon wrapped scallops I love.

(37:28):
About...
Dates I don't like.
They're grilled filled with this like sweet cheese and wrapped in crispy bacon.
Delicious.
There's a new Cuban place that opened up in New York.
I don't like raisins.
The same way I don't like dates.
Maybe we'll try to get the owner on.
And you can tell him you don't like his dates.
The owner of Habana.
I've never had his dates.
I've never had his dates.
You can get them on.
I still love...

(37:48):
I still love the Cuban panini, Cuban sandwich, what is it called?
Folks, this isn't a good episode to say this, but if you're interested in being on the show,
if you're interested in your own a small business or you're an entrepreneur and you'd like to
come on Plumbub's Podcast and talk about it, talk about your industry and give us all the
deets, the ins and outs of your...

(38:09):
The deets or the dates?
The deets.
If you want to talk about your industry, we're always looking for guests.
You're going to go to courtsplumbing.com.
You're going to click the podcast logo up in the top right corner, scroll all the way
down and fill out the application to be a guest.
We'll get you on.
We'll plug your business.
It's a lot of fun.
We'll have a couple drinks, right Otto?
Oh, yes.
Otto always brings something to drink when he comes.

(38:31):
Always.
Yeah.
So come on, talk about your business.
It's a lot of fun.
And we also want to remind you that...
He's not cheap.
He brings the good stuff.
Yeah, Otto brings the good stuff.
What was that?
You brought this really good...
I killed it in like a week.
What?
You left the bottle the first time you were here.
You...
Tequila.
Yeah, that's tequila.
Yeah, that was good.
I don't like tequila.

(38:52):
I know.
I don't like tequila either.
Tequila...
I can't do tequila when I drink tequila bad things happen, but that stuff is good.
So I didn't like tequila and I couldn't drink vodka.
So a couple of friends of mine, they only drink tequila and vodka.
So now, you know...
You have to find this like something.

(39:13):
But it has to be good, the good stuff.
It can't be the cheap stuff.
Yeah.
Well, I don't like to recreationally drink.
I'm not a big drinker.
So if I'm going to drink, it's got to be...
I got to be enjoyable.
Right.
I'm not just popping shots off to get wasted.
No, I can't do that anymore either.
Plus I'm too old for that.
It has to be the better the quality, the less of a headache you'll have.

(39:35):
Yeah.
Of everything, so.
Yeah.
In addition to filling out an application, if you guys are interested in what's going
on, we want to remind you that this episode is brought to you by this guy right here,
owner of jigsawpmr.com.
Check them out online.
201-625-3206.
Mold, fire, water, sewage.

(39:57):
Sewage.
Those four things and everything in between.
You guys will take care of...
Yep.
They'll show up.
They'll show up on time.
You guys are responsive with the customer.
Stay in touch.
That's huge.
I compliment about you guys.
We're constantly communicating with the customer.
We're constantly communicating with what...

(40:20):
We've done multiple jobs together.
You know how we communicate.
Yeah.
Super important to customers because the complaints we always get is, I didn't call
me back.
I called the plumber.
You're the fourth plumber I called.
You're the only one that called me back.
I can't...
You lose so much work like that.
And the other thing that I think Matt...I showed the episode last night, even though

(40:43):
you put it up a week ago.
I'm sorry.
I'll live.
Do you sponsor this show or what?
Yeah.
Well, life gets in the way sometimes, too.
So what Matt said, something very good.
First impressions are very, very important.
And I agree with that.

(41:04):
Yeah.
It's true.
We talked about...well, you saw the episode.
We got into the uniforms thing.
Well, he's wearing one tonight.
Trying to stand out.
I accept this.
This is acceptable.
It's acceptable.
It says courts on it.
Okay.
It's technically part of the court's merch family.
All right.
I'm all right with that.
So in my industry, you know, if you call us in and we're an elaborate cleanup company.

(41:30):
Yeah.
Okay.
So you pull me in to your home or your business and I come in and I'm dirty, sloppy, you know,
not taken care of.
My truck or my, my, my, my, our vans are dirty.
Drunk on tarotilla.
Oh, well, they're dirty.
How can I tell you that I'm going to clean your...
Well, yeah.
I have a question about that, though.

(41:51):
Do your guys, do your workers go in and like bid jobs or sell jobs or something?
No, I do.
Or does it's only you?
I do that.
All right.
But then again, all my, I mean, you've seen my guys.
All my guys, they're, you know, they all look clean.
They're clean.
They're clean.
They're put together, put, they're put together.
They, you know, they, they try to have a type of uniform that's comfortable for them to

(42:11):
be able to work and simultaneously be able to go into anywhere.
I, like you said, word of mouth is the most important thing.
That's what people talk about.
Cleanliness, responsiveness.
Yep.
The lady that we were at today, cleanliness was huge for her.
She was, oh God.
She was, she was very adamant on us being clean.

(42:32):
And I said, yes, don't worry.
We're very clean plumbers.
And her and her husband complimented, complimented us on the way out.
She said the last guy that was in her house, she didn't like him, but she was clean.
Oh, she didn't give us a compliment on the way out there?
Yeah.
You didn't hear?
He goes on the way over there because he estimated this job.
He goes, you're going to hate this lady.
I was like, why?
She's like, cause she's going to be, she's going to be behind you.

(42:53):
She's going to be in your way.
She's going to be talking the whole time, asking questions.
And I'm like, I'm okay with people like that.
I can handle, I can put, I can handle 20 minutes into the job.
I'm texting him from the other room, but I'm like, this lady is absolutely intolerable.
So we had a, we did a, I'm not going to say names or whatever.

(43:14):
It's a local.
It didn't mean either.
It's a local in Oradell.
My patients were tested.
Yours?
I don't believe it.
My patients were tested.
At some point I, I, you have multiple patients.
I blew up a little bit.

(43:34):
One or two.
My license won't allow me to practice.
So I, yeah, my patients were tested.
What happened?
Tell me the story.
Is he just making fun of you behind my back?
That's okay.
Don't worry.
We're going to meet up in a cross.

(43:57):
So she had a leak behind the wall for, I don't even know how long.
So we find, you know, she finally found it because it started to smell like mold, which
is usually right about the time they started, they started thinking of calling somebody.
So she calls, she calls another plumber.

(44:18):
You know him.
Okay.
All right.
Then do I like him?
Yeah.
So that now is a down to three.
Okay.
We're not going to get into that.
She calls us.
We go there.
It's on, it's a Saturday and there's mold everywhere.
Visibly.

(44:38):
There was wallpaper and the wallpaper.
If you pulled it back, it was just black.
What was the smell like?
What was the smell like?
Because I've walked into houses and you're like, oh, earthy.
How do you live here?
Earthy.
Yeah.
So mold starts to, once it starts to grow, it, and it starts eating into the, the, the

(45:01):
material.
Smells like a vegan lady.
Almost.
But it starts to deteriorate and start to make things into like dirt.
Yeah.
So it was very earthy.
She was telling me that, you know, I don't know if I need to, you know, if I don't need
you here, you know, I can clean it with bleach.

(45:22):
Yeah.
Go right ahead.
I told her not to.
And she did it.
No, well, she, she, she wanted to do things her way and every single, everything that I
said that needed to get done, it was a constant fight.
I'm going to jump in here on that.
This was a tough lesson for me to learn.

(45:44):
No offense to any customers because I got to be honest, we have great customers.
Yeah.
Because some of them watch.
We actually have really great relationships with customers.
We don't run into a lot of why painting the ass people, but you will run into them who
try to run the job who think they know more than you.
I had a hard time dealing with it because I'm trying to be nice and occurring and I

(46:06):
say, you know what, ma'am, I'm not the plumber for you.
I can't help you do this because you're not allowing me to do my job.
Either you know how to do it or I know how to do it.
Only one of us, that's, there's only one true statement on this, on this job right now.
You called me for a reason.
You got me over here for a reason and now you want to be up my butt left and right, trying

(46:28):
to direct me like the, the rap from Ratatouille.
I've, are you?
Yeah.
Are you guys doing sign language for two each other?
No, I'm not paying attention.
Well, you did the up my butt and then this.
So I was mimicking that trying to figure out.
Okay.
So you're making smoke sticks on us to each other on my back every time I turn them, whatever.

(46:48):
No, you don't have to turn your back.
That is true.
It's in my face.
It's an honest relationship.
You know, the three of us has just been working together for too long.
That's what it is.
It's a good thing, but we, that, that's actually, it could be a good thing or a bad thing, but
I think it's a good thing because we all know how we're going to react in any situation.

(47:08):
Yeah.
That, well, same with the supply house.
You were going to the same supply house.
Same guys for years and years and years.
There's a comfortability.
There's an understanding.
Right.
You know, I walk in, we walk into the supply house and just like scream insults at each
other.
It's a beautiful thing.
Yeah.
That's how it's done.
Yeah.
Did you ever see Grant Torino with, is Clint Eastwood still alive or no?

(47:32):
Yeah, he is.
He just looks terrible now.
I haven't seen it.
No, I have to watch it.
Okay.
Listen, it's a very risque controversial movie because there's a lot of, it's, it's all about
racism, but he ends up, he's the only guy who's been living in his house for years and
years and all these immigrants are moving in around and he's pissed off.

(47:54):
And this movie holds no, nothing back.
But he ends up making friends with this young Asian kid and they develop a friendship.
Oh, and I see he shoots the, and he shoots the, somebody.
Well, yeah, that's like the end.
But in between, he's teaching it because the kids raised by women doesn't have a father
in his life.
He's teaching him how to be a man.
So he's teaching how to fix things.

(48:15):
And he goes, all right, I'm going to bring you to the barber shop and I'm going to show
you how men talk to each other.
And he walks into the barber shop and they're just pummeling each other with insults and
making fun of each other's ethnicity, hair, face, everything.
He's like, this is how men communicate.
And if you don't do that, then the relationship, no, the relationship or there's no friendship.

(48:37):
Yeah.
It's awkward.
Correct.
It's superficial.
Right.
And I think it was a meme the other day too.
It was a whole bunch of, whole bunch of like middle-aged guys hanging around a barbecue,
drinking beer, laughing.
It was just a picture.
And it said, dudes will hang out like this for six hours and not even learn each other's
names.
I never, never.
I went to a barbecue with my girlfriend, her friends out on Long Island and I had a great

(49:02):
time.
Do you remember any of it?
Not a single name.
She mentions it, she mentions their names.
She goes, oh, you know, you remember this one?
I said, I don't know who you're talking about.
Yeah, but that's the fun part.
Yeah.
There's a brotherhood between men and I'm not trying to get misogynistic or patriarchal.

(49:22):
Is that the buzzword of the day?
I'm saying, but between men, especially in the trades, there's like a brotherhood vibe
most of the time.
I think the more offensive, it's like you're constantly thinking.
How can I be offensive and try to hurt his feelings?

(49:45):
Yeah.
And at the same time, I want to make them cry.
I think, you know, I don't want to make them cry.
Well, every time I call you when we talk, I call you sunshine because you're miserable
because I'm miserable because I'm a rain cloud.
But it's like certain things like messing with people.
It's like I saw a meme too that was when I like make I'm making the new guy work with

(50:08):
you guys watching all these memes.
There is zero work in them.
No, it was a meme about like making the new guy go get me a tool that doesn't exist.
Oh, yeah.
Like going out to the truck to look for a tool that doesn't exist.
So he's out there forever.
But that kind of stuff that harmless like.
But and then I think also in Europe, they're a lot more aggressive with the new guy and

(50:34):
the busting of chops.
And you know, like you put them onto the construction site and just like, let's see who can lift
up the 50 pound of cement and they they cut it.
Yeah.
The company I used to work for.
This wasn't me.
Somebody else had made a mistake, a big mistake.
And they screwed up on the job.
This for a pool place.
And they were having this huge party and the chemistry of the pool got screwed up the day

(50:58):
before.
OK.
And it takes three days to fill up a pool.
My house.
OK.
And a couple of days to book a truck to get you a fill.
So they were they were screwed in that.
So the manager made the guy the next day coming to work when he punched in, he had to dig
a hole all the way till lunchtime.
He had to call the manager when he was done.

(51:18):
And when the manager's comes back to look at the hole, he goes, he had to fill it back
in.
He goes, OK, now fill it back in.
And that was his punishment.
But you know what?
Never made that mistake again.
Never made the mistake again.
And after that, it was it.
He paid for his crime.
Yeah.
And he moved on.
You know.
So.
So back to the customer that gave me that was checking my patience.

(51:39):
Yeah.
You know, mold can get very dangerous sometimes.
Of course.
Right.
So you're telling her what we need to cut four feet of sheet rock out.
She pulled out the tape measure and she goes to me, well, we can cut 40 inches.
We don't have to go to 48 because there's no mold at the at the 40 inches.

(52:00):
You should have just walked out.
I said, and anyway, we found mold at six feet.
So we cut the seven.
Yeah.
So that's my rant.
The customer cannot run the job.
We are the professional.
The customer is always wrong.
The customer is generally undereducated.

(52:21):
And I'll give this example.
Do you want to say something?
The defense is wrong.
I believe that it's our job to educate our customers, to tell them exactly what's right
and what's not wrong and not everything that we read on the Internet that is right.
Listen, I don't know everything.
You mean the TikTok drain cleaner doesn't work?
Yeah.
I don't know everything about like what they do.
Right.

(52:42):
So if I hire them to do something, I'm not going to sit there and be like, no, I don't
think you should do it this way.
No.
It's like, I hired you to do something on my computer.
Do it.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
And let me do my thing.
I'll start telling the story.
You can jump in, but we had a customer years ago.
Everything in her house is like from 1920s, including all the fixtures.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.

(53:02):
Brutal.
She had a claw foot tub, the cross handles.
I can tell the story because you weren't there and I called you afterwards.
That's the way.
All right.
She had a very old house.
Everything was old.
And what were you working on?
I was working on the three valve shower with the three cross handle stems.
Cartridges had to get replaced.

(53:23):
And I tell customers when that happens, I say, listen, I'll give it a try.
All right.
Your shower is on an outside wall, which is already a problem.
It's a hundred years old.
It's a hundred years old.
Sometimes this stuff doesn't hold.
All right.
Your shower and tub are leaking profusely.
So I'm going to give it a try.
If the new stuff doesn't work, I have to cut open the tile and replace the valve body.

(53:48):
Okay.
Okay.
It doesn't work.
It doesn't hold.
He's up my butt the entire time and I had to tell her the news.
Listen, I'm sorry.
It doesn't look like it's holding.
And she goes, no, I've seen this old house.
It'll work.
I saw it on an episode of this old house.
I saw it on an episode of this old house.
It'll work.

(54:08):
So I had to drop everything, not say a word to her.
I couldn't even look at her and I go outside and I call him.
I say, you got to come here now and you got to try to, you know, you got to come here now.
She said this old house.
She said this.
She said my trigger words.
Okay.
She's like, it's like really it worked on this old house, a closed prepped set that

(54:30):
everything is like, it's a control set up.
People don't realize everything is controlled.
Are you mentally?
Well, actually not really because a very good friend, he's a carpenter, he's local.
They're actually filming.
They just finished filming this old house in Ridgewood.
They were doing a brand of full renovation.

(54:51):
Well, okay.
I'm sure there is some things filmed on site, but when they do these little how-to things.
Oh, no, that's all controlled.
Yeah, it's all controlled.
Right.
I've worked for, you remember the show Kitchen Cousins?
I worked for them for a while.
It's all controlled.
They had a set.
They were actually doing a show.
Okay.
So he was building a house up in Ramsey, one of the brothers and we were the plumbers on

(55:15):
it.
He had us come up and do the plumbing on his house and he's filming stuff.
It's a brand new house.
He's gutted the whole thing, building it from scratch all the way up.
So everything's new.
It's not like you can set it up where it's easy to install.
It's not service where you have to cut a wall and cut where 20 years ago they put support
beams.
You have to cut those out.

(55:36):
He starts doing the show from his brand new house.
It's a controlled situation.
Right.
Everything is new.
Everything is open.
It's new.
It hasn't been sitting there for 80 years.
Right.
You know?
The calcium buildup and the minerals.
Holy smoke.
It's like, lady, you're like 60.
Don't you know everything on TV is fake?

(55:57):
Look at this set.
This is only on YouTube.
Look at this set.
Yeah.
Everything is fake.
Nothing is real back here.
Yeah.
But it's nice.
I appreciate that.
I usually say that line so I'll get a compliment afterwards.
Oh really?
Yeah.
Oh, so you're needy now?
Mm-hmm.
Now.
You've been with us for five, six years?
Well, I'm trying to say it nicely.

(56:19):
So let's talk about your new location out there in Westwood, right on the main drag
with a whole bunch of windows to put Jigsaw signage up in.
Yeah.
You did a great job over there though.
Yeah.
Thank you.
The place looks great because we saw it before you did any work to it and afterwards.
So I have to give, I gotta give props to my son and my guys.

(56:41):
They really hustled to get everything.
You know, it's like I gave them an idea of what I wanted and they just went with it.
That's a good boss.
Listen, I'm not in the field the way I was.
You know, I'm mostly admin, sales and things like that.

(57:03):
So what I have told them is I want you to be able to come, you know, if you have to
send somebody to the shop, you need to be able to explain exactly where something is.
Right.
So that means it's true.
So every time that you go and you put something, it's going to always be in the same place.
It looks very organized.

(57:24):
Like my shop.
Yeah, organized.
So, so we've taken that to the shop, to the office, our trucks, everything, everything
that has its place and it's always going to be there.
So you go in, when you, even if you go in blindfolded, you know where you're going to
find it.

(57:44):
Yeah, that's the way to run a shop.
And especially us that we do emergency responses.
Like, you know, we need it right away.
We're like, you know, we get a call at two, three o'clock in the morning.
You don't have time to, to start looking for stuff.
Yeah, to clean it up, to figure out where it is.
All the equipment, all the equipment that goes on a job has been cleaned and sanitized.

(58:06):
And then when it's disinfected, when the job is done, it goes back into the shop before
it goes back onto the shelf for rotation.
It gets clean sanitized and disinfected again.
Did that start with COVID or did you always do that?
Actually we always did that.
It didn't have to do with COVID.
Just COVID just aggravated the situation?

(58:28):
Not aggravated.
It just, it was more of everybody learned during COVID that you need to, you know, you
need to spray everything and everything has a dwell time and everything, you know, you,
you know, you have to let the chemical sit and work and do whatever before you can just
spray it and wipe it off.
It doesn't do anything.
But imagine if I'm going into a house and we're cleaning up, we're cleaning something

(58:50):
up and there's mold, you know, do you really want me to bring that machine into, into my
shop, not clean it and then bring it into your house?
Or sewage, where it smells, you know, and it stinks.
Yeah, with pools, you can take, you can, people will grow different types of aggressive
algae.
You can clean somebody's pool with your equipment and then transfer that algae with your equipment

(59:13):
to the next, current cause a whole outbreak.
Correct.
And pools is like, it's, you're not, you're not living in a pool, but you can still cause
serious problems.
Right.
You know, everything should be, we try to make sure, not we try, we make sure that everything
gets cleaned.
Maybe I should go back to pools.
Maybe.
Maybe I should hit that industry again.

(59:34):
You know, I guess I get quartz plumbing.
Quartz pools.
Yeah.
We've been trying to push cause I used to build, I used to do all the plumbing for the
pools.
We've been trying to push to do that for like systems and stuff.
But actually, let me take that back.
I really haven't been pushing that, but we're putting that on the table.

(59:54):
It's highly competitive.
Yes.
It's highly competitive in our, in our area.
I guess it is.
There's a lot of luxury around here.
Right.
But I'm going to tell you something.
A pool is the biggest waste of money in the world.
Really?
Oh, you'll love it for the first two, three years.

(01:00:14):
And then after that, you know, you're better off doing taking seven grand a year and just
throwing it in a fire pit.
Really?
It is a money pit to straight up money pit.
Oh, wow.
Get a small little pool, little in-ground just to cool off during the summer.
Because you can afford it, but it's a, it's a serious luxury item for sure.
Yeah.

(01:00:34):
It's a lot of money.
I see, I see my friend, some of our friend, one of my friends, he has a pool and he is
like, oh, the pool is leaking, the water is coming in, you know, this, this filter is
not working.
Yeah.
This filter is not working.
It costs a lot of money to run the filters.
It pulls a lot of electric.
It costs a lot of money for a heater.
It costs like 60 to 70 bucks an hour to run a pool heater.

(01:00:57):
It's a 500, 400,000 BTU heater.
Yeah.
A ton of gas it's using.
Yeah.
You know, and natural gas is not super expensive.
Right.
But I'll tell you why.
I do consider going back to pools every once in a while because you work outdoors all summer.
You're in shape, like really in shape because you're in the sun just sweating everything

(01:01:20):
out and you have a nice tan, you're just golden tan.
You look great.
You look like a California.
I don't do good in the heat.
You don't agree?
I hate, I hate the heat.
Oh my God, I hate the heat.
Oh, you're an imposter.
Oh my God.
You might be an imposter.
No, I hate it.
I can't.
The older I get, the colder I want it.
I agree with that.
Right.
But I mean, I'm like Icelandic Viking.

(01:01:41):
Right.
But if I, listen, if I have to work outside and do whatever, you know, I'll do it, but
not that I like it.
There have been, there have been that I still feel in my soul brutal days in the sun.
I will say that.
We've worked through heat waves.
I've had heat stroke.
Like when you're working in the sun with no coverage because you're working in a backyard

(01:02:02):
with no trees.
Yeah, no.
The trees have been cleared out to put the pool in.
Yeah.
And you're putting the pool where it gets the most sun.
Of course.
You know, so it's not an easy industry.
No, it's not.
It's highly, highly competitive.
You know, everybody's price shopping.
Yeah.
It's true.

(01:02:22):
A lot of competition around here.
You know what I want to talk about?
What?
Actually, your new social media department.
Oh, okay.
Because you guys have been putting out, first of all, who is somebody that still has to
get on the show?
The guy who does that?
Billy.
Yeah, he's got to come on.
But you guys, you guys are putting out like high quality videos, short little ads, stuff

(01:02:44):
that you can run on social media constantly.
So Billy, besides, besides being family, that family to the side, he's very good at what
he does.
Yeah, that commercial was great.
That the one that was running, the one that runs on your website and the one that was
running when you did the opening of your new shop.
It looked great.
He did all that.
So he's, you know, he's a professional videographer.

(01:03:05):
You know, he's very, very good.
Did you get him for cheap?
That's his family?
No.
Yeah, whatever.
Whatever he asked me to pay.
I didn't know.
No.
Angling.
No.
You know, because I listen, he has a family.
He has, you know, he, and he puts out quality stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I talked to them, but this is my uncle.
I don't like doing the, you scratch my back.

(01:03:26):
I'll scratch yours.
No.
To an extent for little stuff, no problem.
But to be honest, we're both in business, not just you.
I'm just saying in general, with when we have your relationship with contractors.
If you need something from me, charge me for it.
You can give me a discount.
If I need something from you, I'll charge you for it.
Correct.
I'll give you a discount.
That way there's no, there's nothing that either of us can get pissed off about.

(01:03:48):
Right.
There's nothing exchange.
Well, you didn't scratch.
You didn't scratch my back hard enough.
Yeah.
It's not pissed off.
It's just somebody always feels like they owe somebody more.
Yeah.
Or they get their owed more or something like that, you know.
I think it's smart when you do it with your nephew.
Just whatever it is, just whatever he asked me, you know, whatever he said, you know,
I never, I didn't say no.
Yeah.

(01:04:09):
And he does, he does a quality, he does a quality shoot.
I mean, we're up for another, he comes, you know, every three, four months we do, we do
a photo shoot, you know, interviews and things like that.
And what kind of responses are you getting from it?
So we started with, we started with Billy last year in October.

(01:04:29):
You were one of the first one to get it.
When we first started then, I think we started with like 210 followers.
I think we're over, over 1200 followers.
Really?
Right.
Those are good numbers for a small little, you're not that small, but.
Well, we've grown, we've grown exponentially.

(01:04:51):
I'm trying to get up there.
We've, we've, we've been lucky through, through contacts and conversations and doing what
we do the way we do it, being responsive and picking up the phone.
And you know, we've gotten a few good corporate clients that we first started off just doing
mitigation for.
Yeah.

(01:05:12):
But now we do pretty much anything that they need from general contracting from, you know,
take down a wall, put up a wall, pick the wall.
Are you running ads with his content?
Or are you just pumping it out onto social media?
So we're, we're, we're just right now, we're on, on Instagram and whatever our Facebook
page has.
Uh huh.
And I think at some point we might start running something.

(01:05:34):
You haven't run anything?
No.
Oh my God, it's the best resource.
It's not super expensive.
You got to start running ads on Insta and Facebook.
So we're, we're going to, but we're, we're in the process of doing something with, with
our marketing and with sales.
So I just want to get what we're doing now.

(01:05:55):
We're going to get past that hump.
We'll get past that hump and then that's going to be an addition.
I think we're going to start running ads.
Yeah.
And with the beginning of the year.
Very, very easy.
You can target them.
You can target the location.
You can target the region.
You can target, target by topic.
You know what I, the topics I pick, I'll give you a little advice when you start running.

(01:06:16):
Those most people who call us the wives, moms, the women.
So I don't do topics like plumbing, home improvement, this stuff.
I do fashion, shopping, Taylor Swift.
I have Taylor Swift.
I tag Taylor Swift on like, so I target them instead of saying, because who watches plumbing

(01:06:38):
and hardware and nobody.
Well, men.
No, no, no, no.
Listen, I do follow a lot of channels.
We do.
I mean, it's our profession.
Because we like to learn.
I, Gucci, I tag all that stuff.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
So we actually get a lot of, we get a lot of referrals from the Facebook, from Facebook
moms groups.
Oh, hell yeah.

(01:06:59):
From other people that have used this.
That's there's your word of mouth right there.
And now, and moving into Westwood, even though we don't have any foot traffic, we're on a
main, I mean, you, you've seen, you know, our spot, we're right on downtown Westwood,
we don't get any foot traffic, which is fine because, you know, not everybody's going to

(01:07:22):
say, hey, you know, I need a mold remediation, you know, walking and say, I need a mold.
Have we had people ask us questions?
Yeah, sure.
And we're always willing to, always willing to help, always willing to.
No, it's, that's how the, well, as far as when you said the mom's groups, that is word

(01:07:42):
of mouth nowadays.
It is, it's, there's no yellow pages anymore.
No, that's, that's all done.
I also think that having a home base is huge.
I mean, a good home base is huge because I've worked for companies that have worked for
another plumbing company that like the shop is in a different location than the office
is in a different location.
So what happened with us was we were growing and I mean, you guys know, you, you, you've

(01:08:07):
seen.
So I had converted my, my two car garage into a shop.
Yeah.
And then we had, we had a couple of storage units with all our equipment and, you know,
we would have, we had a home office that we would work out of and people wanted to come
and have a conversation and talk.
You know, we always had to, right.

(01:08:28):
Always living in your business.
Right.
So we would have to go either to Starbucks or go somewhere else and have a seat.
Now it's like, Hey, it comes to the office.
Yeah.
And they come to the office and it gives a different morale to all, to all, to all of
us.
It's like we have, you have a place.
We have a place.
You have a home.

(01:08:48):
Now we call it home.
No, I'm serious.
It's, it's a big, it's a big.
You have plenty of space.
Yeah.
I mean, that's awesome over there.
Yes.
I mean, he's a very good friend of mine.
You know, he helped us find, find the location.
Really?
Yeah.
As far as advising customers, because you probably get a lot, majority of your business

(01:09:13):
you're called on by a contractor who's recommending you.
Correct.
Or word of mouth or, you know, how, however it is, they're not opening up the phone book
and saying, Oh, let me look for a moldy guy today.
Generally.
Maybe there are no phone books.
Okay.
You're right.
Okay.
They're Googling.
Okay.

(01:09:34):
All right.
You're brought in by other contractors and stuff.
When you come in to a house, what is, first of all, the first thing they're going to say,
Oh, I have a problem.
If you're trying to maintain a property or you moved into a house, what are people supposed
to be looking for?
What should people pay attention to?

(01:09:54):
Because when we walk into houses, we get jobs where something has been happening for months
and they haven't been paying attention to it and they haven't noticed.
And now it's this huge problem.
Like the mold thing with the wallpaper.
She hasn't been paying attention to it and now there's a huge problem.
What should people be looking for and saying, you know what, I may have a problem here.

(01:10:17):
Let me investigate this.
So that's a tricky question because your eye as a plumber is trained completely different
than my eye when I do, I'm looking for hazards to an electrician's eye to somebody that's
to a homeowner's eye that works a nine to five and they're there, they're whatever.

(01:10:42):
They're, you know, they're at a desk or a doctor or an attorney.
So we all, we all look for different things when you walk into a house.
You should know your surroundings.
Like, you know, if you go into, if you own a big house, you know, once every couple

(01:11:03):
of weeks, you know, walk around and open up the cabinets.
Go to the sitting room that no one uses.
Open up cabinets.
I have an uncle who, his plumber told him out in Michigan because they have such a big
house and all the kids moved out, he was wondering where a smell was coming from the plumber said,
you have to walk around your house and you have to use everything because when it's not
used, you dry out the traps.
Right.

(01:11:23):
And the sewer gas is coming.
And the sewer gas is coming.
So it's just like, oh, wait, wait, we remember that house that we did together in, in River
Edge.
He had, he wasn't with you then.
He had, he was gone for a year on the same block where your uncle used to live.
That sewer, the cast iron sewer line that was cracked and the whole house smelled like

(01:11:46):
meth.
Yes.
And they, they, they called you saying, Hey, we have a mold issue here and I walk, you
call me, I go there, I walk inside.
I said, you don't have a, there's no mold here.
You have a, you know, you have a sewer problem.
Walk downstairs, did a little investigating.
The cast iron lines were cracked and it was just outstink.

(01:12:07):
It stunk.
Yeah.
And then we found, we fixed that the smell kind of subsided.
Well, not kind of, they, they got a substantially better smell, but it was lingering.
And then they had a second crawl space.
There was another crack from their kitchen that was just dumping.
No, I was there with you.
I did that job.
I went in the crawl space.
That was, that was a year later.

(01:12:28):
Oh, that was not the same time.
No, it was the same.
It wasn't.
You're talking about the same job.
No, it was the same job.
Same, same homeowners because we had, yeah.
Right.
Cause I went into that crawl space also.
Yeah.
No, I didn't.
You didn't?
No.
Who did?
Cause it was clean when I got there.
It wasn't us.
Oh yes.
I do remember they went with somebody else.
I remember.
Yeah.

(01:12:48):
Cause I went in there and I did the plumbing.
That was brutal.
Listen, people think, you know, that pricing is, you know, expensive, but it's cost doing
business.
No, it is, it is what it is.
I mean, no apologies.
No, I'm not going to apologize because I'm not going to apologize for my pricing because
there's a cost in being punctual.
There's a cost in being clean.

(01:13:11):
There's a cost at being professional.
There's a cost of having insurance.
There's a cost.
So I have to cover these costs.
Well, I think to answer his question, I think for homeowners, it's when you see something,
call somebody, even the littlest little thing.
Because like, again, I go back to cars, but an oil change is a lot cheaper than a new

(01:13:33):
engine.
Yeah.
You know?
You know, you have little maintenance, if you see the tiniest thing, call somebody, you
might have something bigger that's going on, but it might just be that small thing and
you can fix it.
I have a client.
I have a client and I go with Cliffs.
This he is the most.

(01:13:56):
He is a wonderful person.
He's hilarious.
He's funny.
He, he's got a great personality.
No, no, no, no.
It's, it's, it's, it's a man.
He's awesome.
Like you can have a good conversation.
He doesn't bust your chops.
He just wants everything done right.
But I have to go to his house once every four months and do a walkthrough to make sure everything

(01:14:19):
is a great idea that everything is okay.
Makes me comfortable.
And if I see something, if it's something that needs to get addressed right away, it's
like there's no question.
Yeah.
It's like, get it done.
Yeah.
But if it's something that can wait, like, you know, maybe there's a scratch on the wall
or things like that, we can get, we can wait.
That's a smart thing for homeowners.

(01:14:39):
Because all these new homeowners who are coming up because, I mean, not everybody can do that
because that, that is a service that does cost money.
Well, so, so I've had him as a customer now.
I've had him as a customer for like seven, eight years.
I do that.
I, you know, I go in there and I, I don't charge him to go do that.

(01:15:00):
Yeah.
We all prefer free inspections.
It's like, it's like giving an estimate.
He says he's going into his house every four months to look at everything.
Every four months?
Every four, once every four months.
He wants every, he wants every quarter.
I'd make a pay for that.
No, I don't.
Because what happens is I've, I have, I have a very good understanding with him.

(01:15:21):
So when I tell him that something needs to get done, if I tell him, if I go in there,
and actually it's the next week that we have to go, if I tell him, hey, your bathroom needs
to be redone.
He's not going to say, oh, you know, he's not going to say anything.
He's going to say, get it done.
Well, what do you do with telling this bathroom needs to be redone?
Listen, we have to be fair.
I'm kidding.

(01:15:41):
I'm kidding.
But he's very, very, he's very, very picky.
That's your rapport with the customers.
That's important.
And that's what you don't get with these huge, huge massive corporations.
No, because it's a personal level.
You're on the personal level.
Yeah.
Do you have anything else to add?
No.
I'm a bitter boy.

(01:16:02):
Now I do.
What about this?
How about now I do?
What do you got?
You're Mr. Bitter.
So, so he got me.
Let's, uh, because we've been, we've been talking for about an hour.
See that?
Well, hold on.
See that look?
Yeah.
That's, that's the hate look.
That's what he wants to say something so bad and twisted and hurtful.
Because I'm still trying to keep a relationship with my boss.

(01:16:24):
All right.
That's a little bit civil.
Okay, because I can say some very mean and messed up things, but.
Well, it's like you're choking.
He, but you guys, you know, you guys, that's the difference.
He does.
He's the boss.
You can do whatever he wants.
Listen, my dear.
Yeah.
You can try that all you want.
You can try that all you want.
I don't unleash on you for full.

(01:16:45):
I don't.
Also, what you say is only half blast.
Well, sometimes, sometimes I do.
Sometimes you want to call it a camaraderie.
I don't think it's a camaraderie.
It's a hateful man.
Sometimes you unleash on me.
Sometimes I unleash on you, but generally I don't say everything that comes to my head
as you shouldn't either, especially when we're on the clock.

(01:17:06):
You'd be censored.
Oh yeah.
Why are you tearing up right now?
Tearing up.
Yeah.
Doesn't look like he's tearing up.
Yeah.
You got the hitch to show off side.
So what's, what's one of the funniest things that's happened to you on a job?
Funniest?
The funniest?
What's one of the more, today's what, Thursday?

(01:17:27):
Yeah.
Let's call this funky Thursday.
What?
What?
What's like the craziest thing that's happened to you on a job?
Craziest?
Have you got something?
I mean, I will say this.
I think the most memorable thing that ever happened to us on a job, because I still remember
to this day, it was probably the first year I was working with you, was the, the sewer

(01:17:50):
backup into a tub was the most vile, the entire house backed up.
And I'm almost certain it came from the street too.
Backed up into.
And house.
Kitchen.
And it back, everything backed up into his tub.
It was a smell that I almost quit plumbing because I was like, I was like, I made a video

(01:18:14):
on this.
This is how it is.
I can't do it because.
This guy had a lot of problems.
I can, any, and on top of that, the man was drugged out.
Okay.
He was on prescription pills.
Living alone.
Sitting, living alone, sitting in his underwear on the couch, watching us with a rifle.
On the couch, like sitting right here with the rifle.

(01:18:34):
And I'm like, and I tried to like mention it to him without the guy noticing because
he was kind of sitting there mumbling to himself.
And I'm like, we got to, we got to fix this and get out or he's got to find somebody else
because this guy is, it's, it was such a weird.
That situation, you know, we get a lot of hoarders, hoarders.
We get a lot of serious hoarders.

(01:18:54):
I don't want to make people feel guilty if they have a, like a slight hoarding problem.
They should, but we've seen serious.
Just know that if you're a hoarder, you're a terrible person.
That TV show, we've seen all that in real time.
And you know what shocks me?
The people who own the house, they act like it's nothing.
They act like, well, what do you mean you have?

(01:19:17):
Oh yeah, my water meter.
You have to climb over this mountain of garbage.
Go ahead, go do it.
It's like, this isn't normal.
Yeah, little paths, little path.
Were you there on the job?
This lady had a premise.
It was like, no, I was there and there was one in River Edge that I was there that we
had to, I had to like sift sideways to get to, to get to wherever I had to get to.

(01:19:41):
We did one.
I think I said, I think we spoke about it on the first podcast.
The first, we did a hoarding house in Englewood right before COVID hit.
The fire department and the health department were called in and they shut the utilities
off to the unit because they were afraid the littlest thing would set the whole condo,
the whole condo complex into flames.

(01:20:01):
You know what blew my mind?
There was another one in the Englewood Cliffs too.
This young girl who I don't know if the house was passed to her or if she lived there.
I think it was something like that.
Because she lived there, this house and she was like this good looking younger woman,
like not what you would think.
The house was falling apart, falling apart.

(01:20:24):
You turn the water on, water pouring into the ceiling.
She didn't find it to be an emergency.
She's like sifting in puddles.
Yeah.
What town?
Englewood Cliffs.
What is that?
Yes.
Okay.
You, okay.
Oh yeah, he was there.
Okay.
Yeah.
The shower is overflowing.

(01:20:45):
Flowing down from the second floor all the way to the basement and she's like, ah, okay,
well you know, maybe I'll deal with it, maybe I won't.
Yeah.
It's like the most nonchalant attitude.
Until they had the waterfall in the kitchen.
And even then.
Even then.
She was not, because we went there to fix that problem.
We went to, she lost her boiler, she lost her hot water heater.
She's like, okay, well I'll just shower at the gym and I guess I'll just put space heaters

(01:21:09):
around.
And she's like, lady, that's a, that's a, that's a three million, four million dollar
house.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
And that too.
That on top of it.
She's the craziness that we deal with.
And we got to deal with it with a smile on our face, kind, caring, friendly to the people.
Yeah.
I'm just going to say this too.

(01:21:29):
She had little furskies, cat cans outside her house all over the place.
She was feeding the local cats too.
So that kind of gives you an indicator.
If you see fursky cat cans before you walk into a house.
And then go with cliffs.
No good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, we've seen, you know, what's your, what's your craziest one?
The craziest one that I've seen.

(01:21:50):
We were, so we get called in on an emergency, an emergency water loss in East Orange.
This was when I first started doing the, so there was no job that I would say no to.
Yeah.
East Orange already.
Right.
Let's have some fun.
Right.
So East Orange, we're closer to like the, the seating hall side.

(01:22:12):
Still not great, but sure.
So get called in, it's 3 30 quarter to four in the morning.
And there's about six inches of water in the basement.
I go to the homeowner, go inside, you know, take a look from on top, you know, go back
to the van, bring our boots to walk inside.
So I go to the homeowner, is anybody downstairs?

(01:22:34):
No, no one's downstairs.
So it's a grandparent just chilling.
Pitch dark, trying to look for lights, trying to find the lights, which you have your flashlight
then all of a sudden I'm flashing my flashlight trying to find the lights and I glance and
I see two eyes staring at me.

(01:22:55):
I throw back and I go back.
I really got scared.
What was the person just down there?
It was a person.
Doing what?
They lived down there?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I was like, I asked the homeowner, is there somebody down there?
It really scared me.
That was scared the crap out of you.
Are you kidding?

(01:23:15):
At three o'clock in the morning, you're in East Orange.
You're already tired.
You're on high alert.
Were they aware that there was someone living down there?
No, no, it was actually one of their kids that had come back and they didn't know they
were there.
It scared the shit out of me.
That would scare the living crap out of me.
It took me about 20 minutes.

(01:23:36):
So we've done work at the mall, like the big mall over here in Paramus.
And you know how you get up into a ceiling and a huge drop ceiling that just goes on
forever and you have to get up and you're trying to find plumbing?
And I always think in the back of my mind is I'm turning around trying to find plumbing
that there's just like a little creature just crouched in the corner making eye contact

(01:23:56):
with me across the ceiling.
I scare myself.
We do a lot of work for them in that mall.
Yeah, it's creepy.
That stuff is...
I would have screamed like a little girl, dude.
So we just punched it in the face.
When we do work for one of our clients in the mall, we're there at four o'clock in the

(01:24:17):
morning, 4.30 in the morning, because we have to go to work before they open up and pretty
much be done when they open.
It's really scary in the mall.
It's like in the parking structure that they have.
Because we always park on the bottom.

(01:24:38):
It is scary.
It's creepy.
Yeah.
Empty mall, all dark.
You don't know what's going on.
You don't know what kind of homeless people doing drugs or hiding out in the little crawl
spaces and stuff.
Oh, man.
Anything else you want to add?
Anything else you want to throw out there before we wrap this up?
What else you got?

(01:24:59):
Someone that wants to hire a professional, make sure that they're insured.
Make sure that they have their licenses.
Make sure that you get the prices and everything.
You're right about that.
Make sure that whoever you hire, you feel comfortable with.

(01:25:19):
That they can make jokes.
Right.
But besides the jokes, we just did one in River Edge.
And the woman is, she's an airline attendant.
You can't call him stewardess.
Flight attendant?
Yes, she can.
She's a flight attendant.
Yeah.
And she travels through Europe.

(01:25:40):
So she was away, came back.
Missing the microphone.
She came back.
And she found her dishwasher had leaked and it messed up the whole, you know, her whole
first floor where her kitchen was.
So we recommended that she get a public adjuster.
I gave her a couple of names and she asked me which one is the better one.

(01:26:03):
I've worked with both of the guys that I gave her, but I just told her at the end, it's
wherever you feel more comfortable with.
I agree with that.
You got to feel comfortable with someone who's going to work on your house and charge you
money and deal with like the guts of your house and the structure of your house, all
that stuff.

(01:26:23):
You got to feel comfortable with that person.
All right.
You have to feel comfortable because you can be on the same page, have the same conversation,
you know, have, you know, be, understand what you're saying and what they're saying.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I agree.
Well, I think Jigsaw, you, I think Jigsaw does it right.
You guys do a lot of things right.
And that's why we keep using you after all these years.
Well, I thank you.

(01:26:43):
Otto, thanks for coming on, man.
It was my pleasure for you.
Thank you for having me.
Finally, I don't want to guess to see what you look like.
Oh my God.
I know.
I'm scared of the people.
Maybe we should just keep that audio.
Yeah, you should have.
You should have.
You should have.
All right, folks.
Thanks for joining us this week on Plum Bumps podcast.
Otto, Otto.
Ketetchis.
Ketetchis.
I always want to say Ketetchis and I know that sounds stupid.

(01:27:06):
So I always avoid saying your last name because I automatically go to that and I don't want
to offend you.
Well, Greeks are very easily offended.
I don't get offended anymore.
When I was in high school, I had gone to the DMV to go get my driver's license for the
first time.
So they were calling my name.
You know, I was actually called contagious.

(01:27:27):
So you can actually make a pretty good like rap name out of that.
Like DJ contagious or something.
Yeah.
Anyway, jigsawpmr.com.
Go check them out.
They actually put out a lot of good quality content.
Enjoyable to watch.
I'm proud of your social media direction you guys are taking.
Check them out.
I'm going to give you the number again.

(01:27:48):
201-625-3206.
You're on Instagram and on Facebook and on Facebook.
No TikTok.
Not yet.
Well, you're missing out.
Am I?
Not really.
Okay.
I get a lot of views on TikTok, but it's all children who can't call us anyway.
So it doesn't matter.
So the views just make me feel good.
But no one can.
It's not like they're going to.

(01:28:09):
It's like.
Why did you say children and hint towards Max?
His childlike.
I'm getting shat on in this show.
That's right.
You're the trusty sidekick.
It's the punching bag.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
He's delicate now.
I know.
So you see how the roles reversed?

(01:28:29):
Yeah, I know.
Should we go back and forth?
Yeah.
Marry a couple.
You will know my wrath.
Folks, if you're interested in being on the show, this wasn't a great example because
we really talked about nothing.
It was a Seinfeld episode the whole time.
But sometimes we need to do that.
You're going to go to courtsplotme.com.
You can check us out on the computer, on your phone.
You're going to click the podcast link.

(01:28:50):
You're going to scroll down to be a guest application.
Fill that out.
We'll get you on the show.
If you're a small business owner, if you're an entrepreneur, if you're starting a new
business, if you have an entrepreneurial spirit, any cool industry we're trying to get that
you can talk banter, talk about, tell good stories.
We'd love to have you on.

(01:29:10):
It's a lot of fun.
So hit us up on that.
We want to remind you that what else are we reminding of?
My mind just went blank.
That's it, right?
Boom, boom, boom.
Yeah, I think we're just plugging Otto's jigsaw again.
Jigsaw?
All right, we did that.
What else?
What else do we want to talk about?
How are you going to bring it back on me after you're ending the podcast and you go,

(01:29:31):
what else do you want to talk about?
No, isn't there a third thing we could...
Anyway, whatever.
Guys, thanks for watching Plumb Bumps.
This is why you can't bring booze, man.
Why?
Because my mind just goes, I can't drink anymore.
What?
Where are you going?
We're going to put this out.
We just ended the podcast.

(01:29:51):
We just ended the podcast.
We're going to put this out right now.
Put us out right now.
Watch us here next week and we'll see you then.
Thanks a lot.