September 3, 2024 • 28 mins
Is your job stressing you out? Sometimes you need to make a change. Tune into the current episode of PM Mastery, where Amanda Sherman steps in as host to interview our regular guide, Walt Sparling. Walt dives into his journey from the design industry to becoming a senior project manager, and discusses his recent job change from a leadership role, to go back in the trenches as a Sr. PM.
We further unpack the hurdles of project approvals in massive corporate settings, highlighting the often exasperating delays caused by extensive bureaucratic red tape. Walt shares candid insights into how these bottlenecks can sap team morale and lead to burnout, offering practical advice on recognizing when it's time for a change. From the emotional toll of leaving a long-time team to the critical role of supportive management, this episode covers the emotional and professional aspects of sustaining a fulfilling career in project management. Whether you're struggling with burnout or simply looking to enhance your skills, this episode is worth a listen.
Favorite Tools:
- Outlook
- Excel
- OneNote
- Snagit
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro/Outro (00:12):
Welcome to the PM Mastery Podcast.
This podcast is all abouthelping you master your project
management skills by sharingtips, tricks, tools and training
to get you to the next level,while sharing the stories of
other project managers on theirjourney in project management.
And now here's your host, waltSparling.
Walt Sparling (00:36):
Welcome everybody to the current edition of PM
Mastery, and today I have aspecial guest.
And today I have a specialguest actually someone who has
been a co-host on multipleepisodes, miss Amanda Sherman.
Thank you, welcome, amanda.
Amanda Sherman (00:52):
Hey, walt, thanks, glad to be here.
Walt Sparling (01:15):
So we're going to something like that here where
Amanda, when I started thepodcast, amanda interviewed me,
which was back in October of2020.
So almost, four years.
Amanda Sherman (01:29):
Yep, it's been a minute, it's been a hot minute.
Walt Sparling (01:34):
So, Amanda, you are the official host for the
rest of the call I am.
Amanda Sherman (01:40):
It's exciting Good to sit in your chair.
Yeah, it's exciting Good to sitin your chair.
So, to catch some of ourlisteners up, in case they
hadn't had the chance to hearthe 2020, like, tell them who
you are.
Walt Sparling (01:58):
All right.
So Walt Sparling, I am aproject manager by day, a
podcaster by night occasionallyand occasional blogger, and I'm
married.
I have two awesomegrandchildren and got a lot of
(02:24):
cool friends.
Amanda Sherman (02:25):
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (02:27):
Like you.
Amanda Sherman (02:28):
Thank you Ditto and back at you.
So you say you're a projectmanager podcaster.
So what exactly led you intoproject management?
Was it just a turning point?
(02:48):
Was it just how your careerunfolded?
Walt Sparling (02:53):
Good question.
Amanda Sherman (02:54):
How did you get there?
Walt Sparling (02:56):
So obviously the money.
Now I spend most of my time inthe design world, probably
between 25 and 30 years, andduring that time I worked from
design up through like PMingprojects within the design world
and later in life in my careerI was actually at a design
(03:25):
meeting and there was a projectmanager there that was an
outsider and he was an owner'srep, so he was basically
representing the owner and theowner didn't have to go to the
meetings and I was like, well,that's pretty cool and what I
found interesting is that heknew a little bit about a lot,
which was kind of like my thing.
(03:46):
I was like you know, I've donemechanical design, I've done
electrical design, I've donearchitectural design, I've done
IT.
I'm like I know a little bitabout a lot of different areas.
So I thought, well, I could dothat and I asked him a few
questions to look into what itwould take to be like a
professional project manager,get certified, because at the
(04:07):
time I was just by title.
Yeah, so I did, and I startedlooking into my PMP.
But before I ever got there Iended up getting weird a
full-time project managementposition for an owner's rep
organization.
Amanda Sherman (04:25):
I see, okay, so all the pieces kind of fell into
place, but it kind of drew youin, yes, interesting.
And then so at this point inyour career, like what is your
position and title?
Like you know, what is yourposition and title, what is it
(04:47):
that you are?
Walt Sparling (04:49):
Currently I am a senior PM and I still work as an
owner's rep.
I just did make a recenttransition.
Prior to my current role, whichI've been in for three months,
I was actually a team lead, so Ihad a team of PMs.
I worked on a different account.
(05:10):
I've been on that account forjust shy of seven years and kind
of got burnt out yeah, theconstant on the leadership role
and I just decided I wasn't, uh,I wasn't willing to continue.
So I decided to start lookingand, by chance, someone I know
(05:34):
told me about a position and, uh, I followed up on the on the uh
opportunity and it wasinteresting cause I've been in
the industry a while and so Ihave somewhat of a rep.
And when I called and askedabout the position it was a 20
minute phone call and I gotoffered the job.
(05:57):
Well so I was like, wow, that'sthe fastest.
I was like do you want myresume?
So it was.
It was really interesting and Iwas happy to transition.
It took about a month totransition out of my old job,
but I've been there now forthree months and I enjoy it.
Amanda Sherman (06:16):
Nice.
It's interesting that basicallyyour reputation as a project
manager basically almostsuperseded, even having your
resume.
Yeah, just ended out.
Walt Sparling (06:30):
Like all that work I put in my resume Quality
Well done, yeah, awesome.
Amanda Sherman (06:39):
Thinking about the projects, I guess both then
and now I mean now is probably alittle, maybe maybe not enough
time to comment, but like whatwas your most memorable project?
Walt Sparling (06:58):
Well, that's easy .
It was my first big project,yeah, and I think within about a
year just shy of a year ofbeing on the other account, I
had done.
They had a, they had a gradualonboarding, which I think is
good, and I basically shadowedother pms and did a lot of
(07:21):
training and kind of got a feelfor how they did things.
And then I was given a smallfifty thousand dollar project
and I killed it.
I mean, just did a great job,and I was like, yay, but I was
pent up for months, not doinganything except for training.
So I just put everything intoit and, uh, it went well.
And then I was given anotherproject and it went well.
And then I was given anotherproject, and it went well, and
(07:44):
and I did a few.
And then the big thing was theyhad this large ground up
operation center project thatwas had been in the planning
stage for many years and theysaid, well, you know, you're a
senior, everyone else is bookedup, our other seniors, so that
this is going to go to you.
(08:05):
Because of the type of project.
I'm like that's fine.
And it was, uh, just shy of 12million dollars and it was about
two years and it was.
It was awesome to see clearingthe ground, pouring the massive
footers, erecting the steelbuilding, doing you know, going
all the way to close out.
(08:25):
And then in the end I gotanother project that involved
finishing the paving andlandscaping around that and the
rest of the site.
So that was almost three yearsof my life with with that, one
or two projects.
So it was pretty, pretty cooland I'll I have all kinds of
pictures and I was like, yeah,that's, that's my, that's my
(08:46):
baby.
Amanda Sherman (08:49):
Excellent, that's awesome.
Um, so, reflecting on just yourkind of your history with that,
and what is it that?
What is it about projectmanagement that?
Walt Sparling (09:07):
That?
What is it about projectmanagement?
That you know that Keeps megoing.
Amanda Sherman (09:10):
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (09:10):
Draws me in.
Yeah, I ask that question a lotto people and I think for me
it's.
I like to solve problems.
Amanda Sherman (09:18):
Yes.
Walt Sparling (09:19):
I like to get positive results.
Get positive results Definitelyproblem solving and making
things more efficient, which iswhy I like to do a lot with
processes and things like thatyou know that 100%.
So I really enjoy organizingand pulling things together and
(09:46):
making things just executesuccessfully.
And I'm you know that mightsound, I don't know, high and
mighty, I mean, but that's whata lot of PMs do.
That's their superpower is tobe able to do that, and do it
without getting, you know,freaked out, and you know.
Amanda Sherman (10:07):
Have everything go really smoothly.
Yeah, I mean, I think I mean myexperience working with you.
It's always been like themanaging the job, but you always
were, and probably still are,developing tools to help make
(10:27):
the process like alwaysimproving on something.
Walt Sparling (10:33):
That's like kind of a thing for me.
If I'm not doing something tomake it better, I'm kind of
bored and I'll admit I am notthe best at starting something
fresh.
But I'll take an idea or I'lltake something else and I'll
mess with it for a little whileand then I'll find a way to make
(10:53):
it better, and I love doingthat.
Amanda Sherman (10:57):
Yep, that shows.
And then, as far as the toolsthat you use, what are your
favorite tools that you use tomanage?
Walt Sparling (11:12):
So I would say probably my top three are
Outlook, excel and OneNote.
Amanda Sherman (11:20):
Same.
Walt Sparling (11:21):
Every day I use all three Yep.
Every day I use all three andI'm constantly creating
spreadsheets and some kind oftrackers in Excel, checklists or
calculation sheets, and then inOneNote I put all my notes, I
(11:48):
save training materials in there.
I kind of build my own littlepersonal playbook, which where,
where I used to be, I built aplaybook for our team.
So I'm always trying to dostuff like that and actually
probably one of my other mostfavorite tools that I use every
day is snagit yes, so I totallyforgot about that.
And it's so true and I just I'vebeen on this account for three
(12:09):
months and I've already got twoteammates that have went out and
got it after they saw some ofmy work.
Amanda Sherman (12:13):
It could be an advertisement for it oh yeah, I
should get.
I should get some kind ofkickback for sure so, besides
the tools, like how do you like,what do you?
How do you stay on top of, likeproject management, Like what,
what do you?
(12:33):
How do you continue to learnand keep yourself fresh in your
role?
Walt Sparling (12:40):
Well, it's changed over the years.
I am an advocate of continuouslearning.
In the past it was books,podcasts, courses through like
Udemy or LinkedIn.
Back when I first was doingthem, it was what was her name?
Linda, it was lindacom orsomething, uh, but that got
(13:08):
bought out and now linkedinlearning has it.
But great courses all kinds.
I mean more than you could everpossibly take same thing with
udemy.
then, as I got where I was likefull-time, pm solid, not a lot
of spare time I would tend tolisten to more podcasts and
(13:31):
Audible books because I didn'thave a lot of sit-down time, so
Audible books were my next go-to.
And then, when I started thepodcast, I learned a lot of
stuff just from the people Iinterviewed.
Amanda Sherman (13:40):
All right, big time.
Walt Sparling (13:42):
And I've learned some incredible things.
I've met some incredible things.
I've met some incredible peopleand now, like on LinkedIn, just
going through my feed, I learnstuff just because there are so
many people that I'm connectedto, that they're sharing stuff
and I'm just absorbing that.
So, and if it's of highinterest, I'll go and check it
(14:03):
out or learn more about it, andmy big thing right now is AI.
Amanda Sherman (14:08):
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (14:10):
Learning.
I think learning styles changeover time, but always trying to
learn something new.
Amanda Sherman (14:18):
Yep, and then in managing projects this is
always a big one.
Is the challenge Like?
What are some of the challengesthen and now that you've
(14:39):
experienced?
Walt Sparling (14:42):
So challenges and so challenges.
I I think, as years have goneby, there's we've obviously gone
through the covet error andthere were some specific
challenges there and some of thefallout from that.
But within project management,probably the one thing that I
(15:02):
have seen continuously and I'veseen this and I've talked with
other people about it and seenit in other posts is approvals.
So when you're a small firm orsome small projects, not a big
deal, but when you get into thetens and hundreds of millions of
dollars and projects and youwork for these large
(15:24):
corporations, it's like, okay,the approval process takes
forever it does and I'm like youknow.
We could design, plan, design,execute and close this thing in
a year and it's taken two yearsbecause it takes a year to
design it and it takes and andevery every step of the way you
(15:46):
have to go through approvals.
But because of the importance,the critical nature or the
dollars, there are so manypeople that have to approve.
Well, those people are busydoing other things, not just,
they're not just sitting aroundwaiting to do approvals.
And I thought I was frustratedwhen I left my last role.
(16:07):
Part of it was the approvalprocess and the expectations.
They expected things to getdone really fast but they were
part of the problem because theywere the approvers.
They didn't want to be part ofthe problem, but it was their
process and they were.
So I came to a new role and I'mseeing the exact same thing, in
(16:29):
some ways on a much largerscale, but it's you know, the
bigger the project, the longerit takes to get approval.
Amanda Sherman (16:37):
Absolutely.
Walt Sparling (16:39):
It just you kind of lose.
You know your, you start out aproject, you're energized and
you're ready to go, go, go.
It's like how's it going?
I don't know.
I've been waiting six weeks formy approval.
Amanda Sherman (16:49):
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (16:50):
What are you doing?
Waiting for my approval?
Amanda Sherman (16:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah .
It's frustrating because you'reready to go to the next step
and ready to that's just I feellike that's ingrained in us to
push and get that ball out ofyour court and just sit there
and just total your thumbswaiting, waiting, waiting.
It is a little bit of achallenge.
Walt Sparling (17:14):
So I think that's probably the biggest one that I
could think of lately.
Amanda Sherman (17:19):
Yeah, you spoke about like something I kind of
wanted to go circle back aroundto was um, burning out and the.
And I know that there's likebecause I feel like I've I've
been in the same boat and I knowburnout isn't necessarily
(17:40):
sometimes it's yours, it's just,sometimes it's the, it's the
place or whatnot.
But what's your feeling on thechange?
So when you changed, did itkind of reset you and kind of
(18:02):
like a refresh reset?
Kind of like a refresh resetkind of or how's?
How do?
How would you?
Because I know there's that Ifeel like that's probably like,
besides not working for theright or not having the right
manager, the burnout might beprobably the second reason why
(18:22):
people leave, or it's like oneof the top five at least yeah,
and there's people that willstay in low-paying jobs if
they're happy.
Walt Sparling (18:30):
Yeah and uh, so it's definitely burnout stress.
Good managers are all important.
I've been fortunate to havesome good managers over the
years.
I've had a couple bizarre ones,but um, the the other thing
that that I, when I started toget to the point where I felt
(18:51):
like I needed to make a change,it's when my friends and my
family is like dude, you need toget a different job yeah and
the thing is there's otherpeople that did the same job as
me and they're not burnt out.
So what is that?
Well, sometimes it's, you know.
It could be the management andthe support that you get.
(19:12):
It could be the thecircumstance of, like, we were
very low on resources, so I wassupposed to be a manager, but I
was running eight projects andit slowly got down to like four,
but it was.
That was a lot of effort, andall the new processes that were
(19:33):
coming out I had to know, learnand teach my team and apply them
to the projects and also do allthe management reporting and
all that, and I tried to keepyou, the team, very supported
and it was just like I can't, Ican't continue to do it.
The other thing is, you know,someone told me, well, how long
you been there, and I said, well, it's just just shy of seven
(19:55):
years.
And I go, well, that's kind ofyour sweet spot, isn't it?
Because I typically the mostI've ever stayed in a company is
six years, which is why I'veI've learned a lot of stuff,
I've gone to a lot of differentroles and it wasn't just because
I quit.
There was financial things thathappened or there were uh, one
time was a layoff.
So there was a variety ofreasons that I changed roles up,
(20:16):
promotions, opportunities, butit was like, yeah, is that?
Is that part of it?
I don't know.
Yeah, but yeah, the I know.
When I left, I actually gotexcited near the end because I
knew I was leaving and I wasanxious too, because I love my
team, yep, and we were close andI was really concerned because
(20:39):
they were going through the samething.
They were burning out and youhear a lot about you can't save
anyone else until you've savedyourself.
You're gonna put the oxygen maskon first right and I can't say
that I really did it here,because I left so I jumped out
of the plane but, um, but I hadto save myself yeah because I
(21:01):
would have just gone, I wouldspiral down and made it worse
for them and it gave someoneelse the opportunity to advance
and to do their best, to kind offulfill that role.
And I still check in with theteam.
We chat every once in a whileand I do.
I actually join a lead callevery once in a while on Fridays
(21:26):
we used to do every Fridaymorning and every once in a
while every four or five weeksI'll jump on that call they kept
me on the invite and just checkin and see how things are going
and it's kind of nice to catchup.
Amanda Sherman (21:37):
Yeah Well, you have pride in your work.
Walt Sparling (21:39):
Yeah, well, that's the other thing.
I think, if you, I know peoplethat can go through whatever,
but they have that attitude ofyou know, whatever, you know,
I'm getting paid to do, this iswhat I'm gonna do.
And me I'm like I throweverything into what I'm doing
(22:01):
and I get very emotional aboutstuff.
I told my boss.
I said, do you know what anempath is you know?
I said I kind of think that'swhere I'm at.
Like, if my team is suffering,I suffer.
Amanda Sherman (22:08):
Yes.
Walt Sparling (22:09):
If they're upset, I'm upset.
It's just something I pick upon the emotions around me.
So I think I react to stuff alittle different, and I'm not
the only one like that.
That's just my thing.
Yeah, me too.
Me too, yeah, my thing.
Amanda Sherman (22:22):
Yeah, me too.
So, Me too.
Well, I know I have.
I got a couple quotes and somefeedback from people vendors,
gcs and things like that.
(22:42):
So I have a couple wanted toget their feedback.
Told them that I was doing theinterview so I kind of wanted to
share these.
So one of our I had a GC partnerand just kind of gave me just
some insight on your experiencewith Walt and they'd said Walt's
(23:05):
intelligent, well-qualified PM,his best attribute is his
knowledge of the details of thejob.
Walt's deep understanding ofthe job allowed for
collaboration and problemsolving to work on solutions
versus the time taking toexplain the workings and reasons
behind what was or could be thedriving issue making my job way
(23:29):
easier and more enjoyable.
And then from one of your peers, it says our direct report.
He was our direct report andkept us informed on changes, not
only in our organization but inthe construction world, with
material market indexes and codeupdates.
(23:50):
He was always improving on thetools we use and improving with
his own designs of tracking.
I don't know how he did his joband found the time to provide
for these updates on all thetrackers.
Favorite the closing ofmeetings with the did.
You knows that.
I'm happy to hear he continueswith the podcast.
Walt Sparling (24:12):
Oh wow, You'll have to tell me who that was.
Amanda Sherman (24:15):
Yeah so.
Walt Sparling (24:18):
Oh, that's cool.
Amanda Sherman (24:20):
Yeah, so with this, with this particular
podcast, do you have any?
Did you knows?
Walt Sparling (24:31):
Well, yeah, I do, I do, I hear so many.
Yeah, One is something I'vebeen focusing on recently
because of health, and that'sprotein.
Okay, so I don't think a lot ofpeople realize how important
protein is to our survival, andit's not just for muscles.
(24:52):
It's important, obviously, formuscles, but the one thing that
I've learned recently is you getolder, your muscles do break
down.
Yeah, I guess they break downto like 1%.
You lose muscle mass like 1% ayear after, I think, 40.
Amanda Sherman (25:14):
Jeez.
Walt Sparling (25:14):
And so protein is vital, but your body doesn't
absorb protein as easy when youget older, when you get older,
and so you have to eat moreprotein, and you have to eat
good proteins, like animalproteins are better than
(25:37):
vegetable proteins.
There are some completeproteins that are vegetable, but
there's only a few I thinkthere's three where animal
proteins have all of theessential amino acids that you
need.
Animal proteins have all of theessential amino acids that you
need, and one of the interestingthings I just found recently
was the order in which you eatis important.
So you want to eat yourvegetables first, your protein
(25:58):
second and then your carbs.
Ah so it's how your bodyprocesses that and it's like the
most healthy stuff first,protein, second, and then you
know the ice cream or pasta,potatoes, whatever.
So, yeah, that's been aninteresting bit of research.
(26:19):
I actually did a presentationon protein to a mastermind group
that I'm in a few months back.
Amanda Sherman (26:24):
Nice, I didn't know.
I'll have to practice thatmoving forward.
Walt Sparling (26:30):
Yeah, and it's hard sometimes, you know, yeah,
you see you're like oh, I wantto try the pasta.
No, I eat the broccoli.
Amanda Sherman (26:38):
It's like you have to eat the crust off the
bread before you eat.
The say in the sense is what itsounds like.
Well, I have one for you.
Walt Sparling (26:58):
I have.
Did you know that the was?
Amanda Sherman (26:59):
the Twitter bird .
Did you know that the Twitterbird had a name?
No, twitter bird had a name.
He was named Larry, named afterLarry Bird, who used to play
for the Twitter.
Co-founder was with Biz Stone'shome team.
Walt Sparling (27:16):
Boston Celtics.
That's interesting.
I never knew that.
Yeah, now you know Two, did youknows all in one show.
Amanda Sherman (27:25):
How about that?
So with that, anything else inclosing?
Walt Sparling (27:30):
or Well, no, but I do appreciate you coming on
here and doing that and doingyour little bit of research
there.
That was, that was fun.
Yep, and to everyone else who'slistening, we look forward to
seeing you on the next episodeof PM Mastery.
Intro/Outro (27:47):
Yep Sounds good.
Thanks for listening to the PMMastery podcast at
wwwpm-masterycom.
Be sure to subscribe in yourpodcast player Until next time.
Welcome to the PM Mastery Podcast.
This podcast is all abouthelping you master your project
management skills by sharingtips, tricks, tools and training
to get you to the next level,while sharing the stories of
other project managers on theirjourney in project management.
And now here's your host, waltSparling.
Walt Sparling (00:36):
Welcome everybody to the current edition of PM
Mastery, and today I have aspecial guest.
And today I have a specialguest actually someone who has
been a co-host on multipleepisodes, miss Amanda Sherman.
Thank you, welcome, amanda.
Amanda Sherman (00:52):
Hey, walt, thanks, glad to be here.
Walt Sparling (01:15):
So we're going to something like that here where
Amanda, when I started thepodcast, amanda interviewed me,
which was back in October of2020.
So almost, four years.
Amanda Sherman (01:29):
Yep, it's been a minute, it's been a hot minute.
Walt Sparling (01:34):
So, Amanda, you are the official host for the
rest of the call I am.
Amanda Sherman (01:40):
It's exciting Good to sit in your chair.
Yeah, it's exciting Good to sitin your chair.
So, to catch some of ourlisteners up, in case they
hadn't had the chance to hearthe 2020, like, tell them who
you are.
Walt Sparling (01:58):
All right.
So Walt Sparling, I am aproject manager by day, a
podcaster by night occasionallyand occasional blogger, and I'm
married.
I have two awesomegrandchildren and got a lot of
(02:24):
cool friends.
Amanda Sherman (02:25):
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (02:27):
Like you.
Amanda Sherman (02:28):
Thank you Ditto and back at you.
So you say you're a projectmanager podcaster.
So what exactly led you intoproject management?
Was it just a turning point?
(02:48):
Was it just how your careerunfolded?
Walt Sparling (02:53):
Good question.
Amanda Sherman (02:54):
How did you get there?
Walt Sparling (02:56):
So obviously the money.
Now I spend most of my time inthe design world, probably
between 25 and 30 years, andduring that time I worked from
design up through like PMingprojects within the design world
and later in life in my careerI was actually at a design
(03:25):
meeting and there was a projectmanager there that was an
outsider and he was an owner'srep, so he was basically
representing the owner and theowner didn't have to go to the
meetings and I was like, well,that's pretty cool and what I
found interesting is that heknew a little bit about a lot,
which was kind of like my thing.
(03:46):
I was like you know, I've donemechanical design, I've done
electrical design, I've donearchitectural design, I've done
IT.
I'm like I know a little bitabout a lot of different areas.
So I thought, well, I could dothat and I asked him a few
questions to look into what itwould take to be like a
professional project manager,get certified, because at the
(04:07):
time I was just by title.
Yeah, so I did, and I startedlooking into my PMP.
But before I ever got there Iended up getting weird a
full-time project managementposition for an owner's rep
organization.
Amanda Sherman (04:25):
I see, okay, so all the pieces kind of fell into
place, but it kind of drew youin, yes, interesting.
And then so at this point inyour career, like what is your
position and title?
Like you know, what is yourposition and title, what is it
(04:47):
that you are?
Walt Sparling (04:49):
Currently I am a senior PM and I still work as an
owner's rep.
I just did make a recenttransition.
Prior to my current role, whichI've been in for three months,
I was actually a team lead, so Ihad a team of PMs.
I worked on a different account.
(05:10):
I've been on that account forjust shy of seven years and kind
of got burnt out yeah, theconstant on the leadership role
and I just decided I wasn't, uh,I wasn't willing to continue.
So I decided to start lookingand, by chance, someone I know
(05:34):
told me about a position and, uh, I followed up on the on the uh
opportunity and it wasinteresting cause I've been in
the industry a while and so Ihave somewhat of a rep.
And when I called and askedabout the position it was a 20
minute phone call and I gotoffered the job.
(05:57):
Well so I was like, wow, that'sthe fastest.
I was like do you want myresume?
So it was.
It was really interesting and Iwas happy to transition.
It took about a month totransition out of my old job,
but I've been there now forthree months and I enjoy it.
Amanda Sherman (06:16):
Nice.
It's interesting that basicallyyour reputation as a project
manager basically almostsuperseded, even having your
resume.
Yeah, just ended out.
Walt Sparling (06:30):
Like all that work I put in my resume Quality
Well done, yeah, awesome.
Amanda Sherman (06:39):
Thinking about the projects, I guess both then
and now I mean now is probably alittle, maybe maybe not enough
time to comment, but like whatwas your most memorable project?
Walt Sparling (06:58):
Well, that's easy .
It was my first big project,yeah, and I think within about a
year just shy of a year ofbeing on the other account, I
had done.
They had a, they had a gradualonboarding, which I think is
good, and I basically shadowedother pms and did a lot of
(07:21):
training and kind of got a feelfor how they did things.
And then I was given a smallfifty thousand dollar project
and I killed it.
I mean, just did a great job,and I was like, yay, but I was
pent up for months, not doinganything except for training.
So I just put everything intoit and, uh, it went well.
And then I was given anotherproject and it went well.
And then I was given anotherproject, and it went well, and
(07:44):
and I did a few.
And then the big thing was theyhad this large ground up
operation center project thatwas had been in the planning
stage for many years and theysaid, well, you know, you're a
senior, everyone else is bookedup, our other seniors, so that
this is going to go to you.
(08:05):
Because of the type of project.
I'm like that's fine.
And it was, uh, just shy of 12million dollars and it was about
two years and it was.
It was awesome to see clearingthe ground, pouring the massive
footers, erecting the steelbuilding, doing you know, going
all the way to close out.
(08:25):
And then in the end I gotanother project that involved
finishing the paving andlandscaping around that and the
rest of the site.
So that was almost three yearsof my life with with that, one
or two projects.
So it was pretty, pretty cooland I'll I have all kinds of
pictures and I was like, yeah,that's, that's my, that's my
(08:46):
baby.
Amanda Sherman (08:49):
Excellent, that's awesome.
Um, so, reflecting on just yourkind of your history with that,
and what is it that?
What is it about projectmanagement that?
Walt Sparling (09:07):
That?
What is it about projectmanagement?
That you know that Keeps megoing.
Amanda Sherman (09:10):
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (09:10):
Draws me in.
Yeah, I ask that question a lotto people and I think for me
it's.
I like to solve problems.
Amanda Sherman (09:18):
Yes.
Walt Sparling (09:19):
I like to get positive results.
Get positive results Definitelyproblem solving and making
things more efficient, which iswhy I like to do a lot with
processes and things like thatyou know that 100%.
So I really enjoy organizingand pulling things together and
(09:46):
making things just executesuccessfully.
And I'm you know that mightsound, I don't know, high and
mighty, I mean, but that's whata lot of PMs do.
That's their superpower is tobe able to do that, and do it
without getting, you know,freaked out, and you know.
Amanda Sherman (10:07):
Have everything go really smoothly.
Yeah, I mean, I think I mean myexperience working with you.
It's always been like themanaging the job, but you always
were, and probably still are,developing tools to help make
(10:27):
the process like alwaysimproving on something.
Walt Sparling (10:33):
That's like kind of a thing for me.
If I'm not doing something tomake it better, I'm kind of
bored and I'll admit I am notthe best at starting something
fresh.
But I'll take an idea or I'lltake something else and I'll
mess with it for a little whileand then I'll find a way to make
(10:53):
it better, and I love doingthat.
Amanda Sherman (10:57):
Yep, that shows.
And then, as far as the toolsthat you use, what are your
favorite tools that you use tomanage?
Walt Sparling (11:12):
So I would say probably my top three are
Outlook, excel and OneNote.
Amanda Sherman (11:20):
Same.
Walt Sparling (11:21):
Every day I use all three Yep.
Every day I use all three andI'm constantly creating
spreadsheets and some kind oftrackers in Excel, checklists or
calculation sheets, and then inOneNote I put all my notes, I
(11:48):
save training materials in there.
I kind of build my own littlepersonal playbook, which where,
where I used to be, I built aplaybook for our team.
So I'm always trying to dostuff like that and actually
probably one of my other mostfavorite tools that I use every
day is snagit yes, so I totallyforgot about that.
And it's so true and I just I'vebeen on this account for three
(12:09):
months and I've already got twoteammates that have went out and
got it after they saw some ofmy work.
Amanda Sherman (12:13):
It could be an advertisement for it oh yeah, I
should get.
I should get some kind ofkickback for sure so, besides
the tools, like how do you like,what do you?
How do you stay on top of, likeproject management, Like what,
what do you?
(12:33):
How do you continue to learnand keep yourself fresh in your
role?
Walt Sparling (12:40):
Well, it's changed over the years.
I am an advocate of continuouslearning.
In the past it was books,podcasts, courses through like
Udemy or LinkedIn.
Back when I first was doingthem, it was what was her name?
Linda, it was lindacom orsomething, uh, but that got
(13:08):
bought out and now linkedinlearning has it.
But great courses all kinds.
I mean more than you could everpossibly take same thing with
udemy.
then, as I got where I was likefull-time, pm solid, not a lot
of spare time I would tend tolisten to more podcasts and
(13:31):
Audible books because I didn'thave a lot of sit-down time, so
Audible books were my next go-to.
And then, when I started thepodcast, I learned a lot of
stuff just from the people Iinterviewed.
Amanda Sherman (13:40):
All right, big time.
Walt Sparling (13:42):
And I've learned some incredible things.
I've met some incredible things.
I've met some incredible peopleand now, like on LinkedIn, just
going through my feed, I learnstuff just because there are so
many people that I'm connectedto, that they're sharing stuff
and I'm just absorbing that.
So, and if it's of highinterest, I'll go and check it
(14:03):
out or learn more about it, andmy big thing right now is AI.
Amanda Sherman (14:08):
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (14:10):
Learning.
I think learning styles changeover time, but always trying to
learn something new.
Amanda Sherman (14:18):
Yep, and then in managing projects this is
always a big one.
Is the challenge Like?
What are some of the challengesthen and now that you've
(14:39):
experienced?
Walt Sparling (14:42):
So challenges and so challenges.
I I think, as years have goneby, there's we've obviously gone
through the covet error andthere were some specific
challenges there and some of thefallout from that.
But within project management,probably the one thing that I
(15:02):
have seen continuously and I'veseen this and I've talked with
other people about it and seenit in other posts is approvals.
So when you're a small firm orsome small projects, not a big
deal, but when you get into thetens and hundreds of millions of
dollars and projects and youwork for these large
(15:24):
corporations, it's like, okay,the approval process takes
forever it does and I'm like youknow.
We could design, plan, design,execute and close this thing in
a year and it's taken two yearsbecause it takes a year to
design it and it takes and andevery every step of the way you
(15:46):
have to go through approvals.
But because of the importance,the critical nature or the
dollars, there are so manypeople that have to approve.
Well, those people are busydoing other things, not just,
they're not just sitting aroundwaiting to do approvals.
And I thought I was frustratedwhen I left my last role.
(16:07):
Part of it was the approvalprocess and the expectations.
They expected things to getdone really fast but they were
part of the problem because theywere the approvers.
They didn't want to be part ofthe problem, but it was their
process and they were.
So I came to a new role and I'mseeing the exact same thing, in
(16:29):
some ways on a much largerscale, but it's you know, the
bigger the project, the longerit takes to get approval.
Amanda Sherman (16:37):
Absolutely.
Walt Sparling (16:39):
It just you kind of lose.
You know your, you start out aproject, you're energized and
you're ready to go, go, go.
It's like how's it going?
I don't know.
I've been waiting six weeks formy approval.
Amanda Sherman (16:49):
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (16:50):
What are you doing?
Waiting for my approval?
Amanda Sherman (16:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah .
It's frustrating because you'reready to go to the next step
and ready to that's just I feellike that's ingrained in us to
push and get that ball out ofyour court and just sit there
and just total your thumbswaiting, waiting, waiting.
It is a little bit of achallenge.
Walt Sparling (17:14):
So I think that's probably the biggest one that I
could think of lately.
Amanda Sherman (17:19):
Yeah, you spoke about like something I kind of
wanted to go circle back aroundto was um, burning out and the.
And I know that there's likebecause I feel like I've I've
been in the same boat and I knowburnout isn't necessarily
(17:40):
sometimes it's yours, it's just,sometimes it's the, it's the
place or whatnot.
But what's your feeling on thechange?
So when you changed, did itkind of reset you and kind of
(18:02):
like a refresh reset?
Kind of like a refresh resetkind of or how's?
How do?
How would you?
Because I know there's that Ifeel like that's probably like,
besides not working for theright or not having the right
manager, the burnout might beprobably the second reason why
(18:22):
people leave, or it's like oneof the top five at least yeah,
and there's people that willstay in low-paying jobs if
they're happy.
Walt Sparling (18:30):
Yeah and uh, so it's definitely burnout stress.
Good managers are all important.
I've been fortunate to havesome good managers over the
years.
I've had a couple bizarre ones,but um, the the other thing
that that I, when I started toget to the point where I felt
(18:51):
like I needed to make a change,it's when my friends and my
family is like dude, you need toget a different job yeah and
the thing is there's otherpeople that did the same job as
me and they're not burnt out.
So what is that?
Well, sometimes it's, you know.
It could be the management andthe support that you get.
(19:12):
It could be the thecircumstance of, like, we were
very low on resources, so I wassupposed to be a manager, but I
was running eight projects andit slowly got down to like four,
but it was.
That was a lot of effort, andall the new processes that were
(19:33):
coming out I had to know, learnand teach my team and apply them
to the projects and also do allthe management reporting and
all that, and I tried to keepyou, the team, very supported
and it was just like I can't, Ican't continue to do it.
The other thing is, you know,someone told me, well, how long
you been there, and I said, well, it's just just shy of seven
(19:55):
years.
And I go, well, that's kind ofyour sweet spot, isn't it?
Because I typically the mostI've ever stayed in a company is
six years, which is why I'veI've learned a lot of stuff,
I've gone to a lot of differentroles and it wasn't just because
I quit.
There was financial things thathappened or there were uh, one
time was a layoff.
So there was a variety ofreasons that I changed roles up,
(20:16):
promotions, opportunities, butit was like, yeah, is that?
Is that part of it?
I don't know.
Yeah, but yeah, the I know.
When I left, I actually gotexcited near the end because I
knew I was leaving and I wasanxious too, because I love my
team, yep, and we were close andI was really concerned because
(20:39):
they were going through the samething.
They were burning out and youhear a lot about you can't save
anyone else until you've savedyourself.
You're gonna put the oxygen maskon first right and I can't say
that I really did it here,because I left so I jumped out
of the plane but, um, but I hadto save myself yeah because I
(21:01):
would have just gone, I wouldspiral down and made it worse
for them and it gave someoneelse the opportunity to advance
and to do their best, to kind offulfill that role.
And I still check in with theteam.
We chat every once in a whileand I do.
I actually join a lead callevery once in a while on Fridays
(21:26):
we used to do every Fridaymorning and every once in a
while every four or five weeksI'll jump on that call they kept
me on the invite and just checkin and see how things are going
and it's kind of nice to catchup.
Amanda Sherman (21:37):
Yeah Well, you have pride in your work.
Walt Sparling (21:39):
Yeah, well, that's the other thing.
I think, if you, I know peoplethat can go through whatever,
but they have that attitude ofyou know, whatever, you know,
I'm getting paid to do, this iswhat I'm gonna do.
And me I'm like I throweverything into what I'm doing
(22:01):
and I get very emotional aboutstuff.
I told my boss.
I said, do you know what anempath is you know?
I said I kind of think that'swhere I'm at.
Like, if my team is suffering,I suffer.
Amanda Sherman (22:08):
Yes.
Walt Sparling (22:09):
If they're upset, I'm upset.
It's just something I pick upon the emotions around me.
So I think I react to stuff alittle different, and I'm not
the only one like that.
That's just my thing.
Yeah, me too.
Me too, yeah, my thing.
Amanda Sherman (22:22):
Yeah, me too.
So, Me too.
Well, I know I have.
I got a couple quotes and somefeedback from people vendors,
gcs and things like that.
(22:42):
So I have a couple wanted toget their feedback.
Told them that I was doing theinterview so I kind of wanted to
share these.
So one of our I had a GC partnerand just kind of gave me just
some insight on your experiencewith Walt and they'd said Walt's
(23:05):
intelligent, well-qualified PM,his best attribute is his
knowledge of the details of thejob.
Walt's deep understanding ofthe job allowed for
collaboration and problemsolving to work on solutions
versus the time taking toexplain the workings and reasons
behind what was or could be thedriving issue making my job way
(23:29):
easier and more enjoyable.
And then from one of your peers, it says our direct report.
He was our direct report andkept us informed on changes, not
only in our organization but inthe construction world, with
material market indexes and codeupdates.
(23:50):
He was always improving on thetools we use and improving with
his own designs of tracking.
I don't know how he did his joband found the time to provide
for these updates on all thetrackers.
Favorite the closing ofmeetings with the did.
You knows that.
I'm happy to hear he continueswith the podcast.
Walt Sparling (24:12):
Oh wow, You'll have to tell me who that was.
Amanda Sherman (24:15):
Yeah so.
Walt Sparling (24:18):
Oh, that's cool.
Amanda Sherman (24:20):
Yeah, so with this, with this particular
podcast, do you have any?
Did you knows?
Walt Sparling (24:31):
Well, yeah, I do, I do, I hear so many.
Yeah, One is something I'vebeen focusing on recently
because of health, and that'sprotein.
Okay, so I don't think a lot ofpeople realize how important
protein is to our survival, andit's not just for muscles.
(24:52):
It's important, obviously, formuscles, but the one thing that
I've learned recently is you getolder, your muscles do break
down.
Yeah, I guess they break downto like 1%.
You lose muscle mass like 1% ayear after, I think, 40.
Amanda Sherman (25:14):
Jeez.
Walt Sparling (25:14):
And so protein is vital, but your body doesn't
absorb protein as easy when youget older, when you get older,
and so you have to eat moreprotein, and you have to eat
good proteins, like animalproteins are better than
(25:37):
vegetable proteins.
There are some completeproteins that are vegetable, but
there's only a few I thinkthere's three where animal
proteins have all of theessential amino acids that you
need.
Animal proteins have all of theessential amino acids that you
need, and one of the interestingthings I just found recently
was the order in which you eatis important.
So you want to eat yourvegetables first, your protein
(25:58):
second and then your carbs.
Ah so it's how your bodyprocesses that and it's like the
most healthy stuff first,protein, second, and then you
know the ice cream or pasta,potatoes, whatever.
So, yeah, that's been aninteresting bit of research.
(26:19):
I actually did a presentationon protein to a mastermind group
that I'm in a few months back.
Amanda Sherman (26:24):
Nice, I didn't know.
I'll have to practice thatmoving forward.
Walt Sparling (26:30):
Yeah, and it's hard sometimes, you know, yeah,
you see you're like oh, I wantto try the pasta.
No, I eat the broccoli.
Amanda Sherman (26:38):
It's like you have to eat the crust off the
bread before you eat.
The say in the sense is what itsounds like.
Well, I have one for you.
Walt Sparling (26:58):
I have.
Did you know that the was?
Amanda Sherman (26:59):
the Twitter bird .
Did you know that the Twitterbird had a name?
No, twitter bird had a name.
He was named Larry, named afterLarry Bird, who used to play
for the Twitter.
Co-founder was with Biz Stone'shome team.
Walt Sparling (27:16):
Boston Celtics.
That's interesting.
I never knew that.
Yeah, now you know Two, did youknows all in one show.
Amanda Sherman (27:25):
How about that?
So with that, anything else inclosing?
Walt Sparling (27:30):
or Well, no, but I do appreciate you coming on
here and doing that and doingyour little bit of research
there.
That was, that was fun.
Yep, and to everyone else who'slistening, we look forward to
seeing you on the next episodeof PM Mastery.
Intro/Outro (27:47):
Yep Sounds good.
Thanks for listening to the PMMastery podcast at
wwwpm-masterycom.
Be sure to subscribe in yourpodcast player Until next time.
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