In This Episode:
Ever felt like you're treading water in the vast ocean of project management? Synchronize your strokes with the wisdom of Benjamin Chan, PMP, P.Eng, CMC, ASM, a project management leadership success coach hailing from Calgary, Alberta. Benjamin joins us to share his invaluable expertise on amplifying leadership abilities and harnessing the innate strengths of project managers. With an earnest approach, he addresses the steep learning curve faced by newcomers in the field and the crucial support systems needed to transform the traditional 'sink or swim' corporate mantra. Our enlightening talk traverses the transformative effects of in-project coaching, its ability to rescue floundering projects, and its profound impact on team morale and overall success rates.
The journey continues as Benjamin sheds light on everyday hurdles like people management, decisive action, and the art of conflict resolution. The frustration of ambiguous feedback meets its match with the clarity and actionable guidance Benjamin champions.
Learn how to keep your skills razor-sharp amidst a packed schedule and capitalize on the intersection of emotional intelligence and artificial intelligence. As we wrap up our exploration, the conversation takes a personal turn, focusing on the connection between self-care and professional growth. Discover the extraordinary value of recognizing oneself as a pivotal asset to one's life and the corporate environment, ensuring you are equipped to tackle your next project with renewed vigor and insight.
Favorite Tool(s):
- Questions!
Links:
- Connect with Ben - https://www.linkedin.com/in/pmcoachben/
- Did you know? - He jumped - https://www.macautower.com.mo/
Additional Resources:
- International Coaching Federation - https://coachingfederation.org/
PMI Talent Triangle: Leadership/Power Skills - Strategy (Learn More)
PM-Mastery Links:
- For a full podcast episode list, visit here: PM-Mastery Podcast Episodes.
- For a full list of blog posts, go here: PM-Mastery Blog Posts
- Become a PURE PM: https://pm-mastery.com/pure
- Check out Instructing.com for all your PM course needs: https://www.instructing.com/?ref=bd5e5c
- Get your free PDU Tracker here: https://pm-mastery.com/resource_links/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro/Outro (00:12):
Welcome to the PM Mastery Podcast.
This podcast is all abouthelping you master your project
management skills by sharingtips, tricks, tools and training
to get you to the next level,while sharing the stories of
other project managers on theirjourney in project management.
And now here's your host, waltSparling.
Walt Sparling (00:36):
Welcome everybody to the current edition of PM
Mastery, and today I have withme Benjamin Chan.
Welcome, benjamin.
Benjamin Chan (00:44):
Welcome.
Thank you for having me on.
Walt Sparling (00:47):
Well, it's good to have you.
We're going to talk a littlebit about who you are, what you
do, why you do it, the typicalstuff, and, first off, so
everybody gets to know a littlebit who doesn't already know you
tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Benjamin Chan (01:00):
Sure, my name is Benjamin Chan.
I live in Calgary, alberta, upnorth in Canada, and for who I
am, I'd say I'm aChinese-Canadian, I'm a husband,
I'm a father of two, I got onedog and, like any Canadian, I
love hockey.
So right now it is during theplayoff season, so it's
(01:24):
definitely a lot of differentteams to go and watch and enjoy.
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (01:30):
We have the lightning here, boo, they've
been kicking butt, yeah, allright, so what is it that you do
?
Benjamin Chan (01:45):
So for me, I'm a project management leadership
success coach.
I also do project managementconsulting for various different
clients, but primarily focusingon the coaching piece of it and
what that is, and some peoplemight not know because there's
so many different coaches outthere and some people might not
know because there's so manydifferent coaches out there.
(02:05):
There's, you know, the PMPcertification coach.
There's career coaches helpingpeople find their jobs and find
PM transitions right.
For me, I'm focused on beingable to help project managers
excel, being able to go and helpthem go and meet their
challenges and advance inside oftheir career by leveraging
(02:28):
their own leadership skills,developing them, being able to
find what's unique about themand being able to help them
shine.
And for me, it's really justmyself and seeing how all of
these I'd say how so many ofthese project managers really
struggle even with acertification when they're
coming out, say they're one tofive years into their career and
(02:51):
it's not necessarily an easyjourney.
Right, organizations sometimesexpect them to be able to go and
deliver off the bat and for me,I want to be able to help more
of the project managers notnecessarily go into the sink or
swim mentality that they do havea life vest or a I don't know
(03:13):
those buoys to be able to bethrown out there for them to be
able to grab on, so that theycan succeed as well.
Walt Sparling (03:20):
So that would be your, why You're trying to help
people, not struggle so much andgetting yeah.
Benjamin Chan (03:28):
I mean this.
This really came out from myown experience.
I've been involved in a lot ofdifferent rescue projects and
for me it was interesting,because I'm not necessarily a
subject matter expert.
I'd say right, I don'tnecessarily have a specific
industry I focus on, nor do Ihave a specific project type
(03:48):
that I say.
You know, I am an ERP softwareimplementer or a game developer
or a product deliverer.
Right, I don't have thatspecific of industry or area of
expertise.
And so my management consultingexperience has taken me across
a lot of different industriesand a lot of different projects,
(04:11):
and so it sometimes came as asurprise to me where people
would come to me and say, hey,we need you to go and rescue
this project.
It's not doing so.
Well, we need someone to go andhelp out, and I'm more than
happy to.
And what really, I guess,spurred my thinking was trying
to understand exactly one why me, right, I don't have the
(04:34):
subject matter expertise in thatarea, so what do I have that's
allowed me to be successful?
And two, for the projectmanager that I was essentially
replacing, where was the supportfor them?
And that really got me thinkingof what if, rather than having
me come in and just deliver theproject from that point on to
(04:57):
the end, what if we were able togo and provide a different
channel of support for thoseproject managers?
That if there were challenges,if there were areas where it is
starting to get to a dumpsterfire.
Right, rather than changing outthe coach and changing out the
project manager.
What if there was a differentway that we could help those
project managers be able to goand succeed?
(05:19):
Right, given them a little bitof a different path.
And that's why I started doingmy project leadership success
coaching.
Because the organizationssometimes they look to that
replacement of project managertoo soon and the impact of that
to the project and organizationis you're probably getting at
least three or more months ofproject burn, you lose
(05:42):
institutional knowledge, andthen you got to ramp down, you
got to ramp back up the newperson.
There's no guaranteenecessarily that that new person
will do well either, and theteam morale, all of the
productivity that also starts todrop as well, right.
So there's so many differentthings that need to be handled,
and yet the project manager is alittle bit of a nexus point
(06:05):
there that can greatly improveif they're given the right
support, and I just didn't seeanyone in the market being able
to go and provide that.
So that's a little bit more ofwhy I do what I do.
Walt Sparling (06:19):
I think it's interesting.
You talk about replacing a PMversus coaching a PM.
I think a good opportunity inmy mind would be a coaching PM
that is hired by a company tobring in and say listen, we're
struggling with this project.
The PM's got knowledge, butthey're lacking in certain skill
(06:40):
sets.
We want you to come in and helprescue, but instead of taking
over the project, we want you towork with this individual.
Therefore, building moreexperience on that individual.
You're still doing your partand when it's all done, they get
a PM that knows more than whenhe started.
Benjamin Chan (06:57):
Absolutely.
And hey, if anyone out therewants to go and do that, please,
please, give me a call.
But you're absolutely right.
That portion of being able togo and have someone be able to
provide that I'll say objective,safe area to ideate and find
new solutions and develop theirskills is something that's not
(07:20):
really there anymore, like evenwith the PMOs.
If a project manager isstruggling and they go to the
PMO and says I don't know whatI'm doing, they're probably
going to get rid of you fairlyquickly.
It's not exactly a safe space tobe able to go and do that,
because they want to have thesuccess of the project and they
may then feel that the best wayto have the project be
(07:42):
successful is to go and replacethe PM.
And I just feel like thatthere's an opportunity for a
different option, a differentchoice to be made where the
project manager can also go anddevelop and grow, learn more
skills, take on more complexprojects.
The project can hopefully thenreach to a better level where it
(08:03):
can be successful.
Project can hopefully thenreach to a better level where it
can be successful.
Walt Sparling (08:08):
And so it's a win-win in everyone's book.
I think it's.
Another interesting thing I wasthinking about is you know
companies that are willing tobring in someone from the
outside to rescue a project and,to your point, a lot of these
companies aren't educating theirown staff, their own PMs,
they're not giving them thesupport they need, but they're
bringing someone else to do thateffort.
(08:32):
The one thing I think is anadvantage I've dealt with a lot
of different size projects andcomplexity and when you work for
someone for a long time whetherit's in a company or even as in
a consultant role for a longtime, like project management as
a service the client gets alittle comfortable with you and
they start having certainexpectations.
And then, when things don'twork out, they're like well,
(08:52):
obviously you guys don't knowwhat you're doing.
We've got to bring someone elsein and, like you want to tell
them it's not us, it's you.
You know there's certainexpectations that you have are
unrealistic and I've heard thisfrom multiple people but they'll
bring in a consultant and thenthey'll just go oh, that's what
we got to do.
We've been telling them thatsame thing.
(09:13):
Oh, but we'll listen to theconsultant.
I think there is an advantage tocoming in from the outside like
that.
Benjamin Chan (09:20):
Yeah, and even if it's from a temporary
perspective and I knoworganizations they love the done
for you approach of I justdon't want to worry about it
anymore, just take it off myhands but it doesn't play well
necessarily into the long termgoal of the organization, right,
the strategy of what they'retrying to achieve.
(09:40):
If you have stronger employeesthat can be able to go and do
more, if you have it more as adone with you approach where you
can help build up some of thatskill and capability within the
organization, that organizationcan probably go further, right,
I mean it's great to be able tocall, be called upon and have it
done for you, but, man, it canbe stressful and for the
(10:03):
organization.
Once that consultant leaves,you are back to finding another
project manager.
Walt Sparling (10:09):
And you're just adding, as we talked about
earlier, it's adding cost andburn to the schedule, which is
cost, but at the additionalconsulting costs.
Benjamin Chan (10:19):
Yeah, exactly.
Walt Sparling (10:20):
So that's like going in with a company to save.
But your other aspect was whereyou were going is helping PMs
learn and grow, which is awesome, because if they're not getting
support within their owncompany, this is an outlet for
them to go and say, hey, help me, what am I doing?
How can I get better?
Benjamin Chan (10:40):
Yeah, yeah, and it's both as a proactive and as
a reactive approach, right?
No-transcript.
(11:11):
Have someone else from ourorganization be able to go
mentor One.
That mentor is probably superbusy with their own projects,
right?
They're handling probably morecomplex projects that are higher
priority and at the same time,there's always the I'd say the
problem with advice.
Right, that you're going togive out advice and the other
(11:31):
person's going to look at it andgo.
Well, it doesn't quite apply inmy situation because of reason
X, y and Z.
Right, because every project isa little bit different, there's
different variables around itand coaching is really centered
on more of an introspective lookof what could we work with in
your situation to get you?
Walt Sparling (11:49):
moving forward.
I kind of look at coaching andmentoring as completely
different.
Like coaching is you're reallyin my mind in our industry as a
leader I was, you know.
I had a team and I coached some, I mentored some.
I did both for some, but to methey're different.
Coaching is in, mine is okay,these are skillsets you need to
(12:12):
work on.
This is how you can go aboutdoing that.
These are the tools you use.
This is how the best way to usethem, or at least in my, my
experience you can adjust.
And then mentoring is more likekind of bigger picture,
long-term, how you know what.
What are you struggling with,like on a philosophical basis,
not necessarily skill set, likemaybe some communication issues
(12:34):
which could be skill set, butit's also personality driven, I
I just think.
And mentorship is more likeleading by example, where
coaching is actually teaching.
Benjamin Chan (12:47):
Yeah, it'd be a combination of the two.
I'd say, in terms of my styleof coaching, it's more aligned
to what is provided through theICF, the International Coaching
Federation, where it is a lotmore of asking questions to go
and develop the resiliency anddeveloping their own answers
right or helping them reachcertain conclusions so that they
(13:09):
can move forward.
But and this is where I thinksometimes that coaching aspect
it does need to have a littlebit more flexibility,
information or a little bit moreexplanation so that people can
understand how does it actuallywork right?
And that's why, with my clients, I always say you know what,
(13:32):
we're not going to dive straightinto it.
I'll give you one free one sothat you can understand how it
actually works.
Because if you are coached andyou don't want to be coached,
that is a very difficultrelationship to manage and I've
been in one of those before.
Only it was flipped, I wasbeing coached and I had no idea
(13:53):
I was being coached.
I just thought this is aridiculous experience, and so it
can be frustrating if you'renot a willing participant.
Walt Sparling (14:01):
So in your like, let's just say you're
participant.
So in your like, let's just sayyou're when you're helping PMs.
Do you find that there arespecific items that you see as
more of a struggle for PMs?
Benjamin Chan (14:14):
I think a lot of it is.
They reach into problems thatthey've never encountered before
.
Right, and typically they haveto do with people management,
right, whether it's with theirstakeholders or their sponsor,
executive sponsors, whatever itmight be and it then becomes a
(14:36):
bit of a combination ofsometimes it's decision-making,
communication, right, being ableto go and exercise conflict
management as well as issueresolution.
How are you supposed to go andspeak to be able to get people
to see your side of the view?
Right, combined withstorytelling.
So there's usually a multitudeof different things as well as
(14:59):
just being able to take adifferent perspective on the
problem that they're facing.
What I find for a lot ofproject managers is they get a
lot of feedback backwards ofsaying what's wrong, but then
they're not really told whatthey could do to make it better,
and that creates a bit of aroadblock from the perspective
(15:20):
that they just don't know whatto do with that information.
Yeah, I can see that.
What to do with thatinformation?
Right?
Walt Sparling (15:26):
Yeah, I can see that I didn't enjoy that meeting
.
Benjamin Chan (15:28):
It's like, okay, well, what didn't you enjoy?
It's like I just didn't like it.
Okay, Well, where do I go fromhere?
Right.
Walt Sparling (15:34):
Yeah, that was all wrong.
Well, what about this?
No things Right, and thenyou're going through the
checklist of what's wrong ratherthan what could I be doing.
That's right.
Benjamin Chan (15:47):
We tried this.
Walt Sparling (15:48):
We tried this.
We tried this, yeah, yeah, okay.
So who, what?
Why now, as a coach?
And you mentioned a coachingorganization, so it's that, I
assume, set standards forcoaching.
How do you keep up with yourskill sets, whether it be just
in project management industryor in the coaching aspect?
Benjamin Chan (16:13):
Well, one is following amazing content
creators like yourself, as wellas from other people, just
trying to understand a lot ofthe different trends in news,
right?
Pmi has a lot of greatnewsletters and learning modules
inside of there.
They're obviously stepping uptheir game inside of AI and so
(16:35):
being able to keep up with thosepieces.
Podcasts for me at least, foraudiobooks and I'll say, more
around critical thinking type ofpodcasts, right?
So the one I love listening tois no Stupid Questions.
It's one from Angela Duckworth,from Freakonomics.
(16:56):
Those ones just always kind ofget me thinking about things.
And how do things apply intothe project management world?
And just connecting with otherpeople right, understanding what
are they struggling with,engaging with them and asking
them the questions of what areyour problems.
That's kind of how I've kept upwith it for the most part, but
(17:19):
I'd say it's getting harder andharder because there's just so
much information out there.
Walt Sparling (17:23):
Oh, it's like information overload.
Benjamin Chan (17:26):
Oh, I know.
Walt Sparling (17:27):
I mean, we're both involved in a couple of
communities on LinkedIn that arephenomenal.
I mean, some of these people, Ifelt like I met them at one
point, interviewed many of them,and now I feel like they're
like neighbors or friends.
You know, it's like we've beeninteracting for years now and
(17:49):
it's like, wow, that was greatcontent they just put out.
Or wow, you know, I neverthought about that.
Or oh, that's, that's greatstuff.
And I mean there's somephenomenal ones out there and
the lives that we've done, notnot only myself, but, uh,
jeremiah and john connelly.
There's so much, so much dataout there, so much to share and
learn.
Benjamin Chan (18:06):
Yeah, and I almost feel I don't know, like
I'm always a little a stepbehind right Cause everyone
seems to be reading up on things.
I'm like, oh my gosh, how do I,how do I get this tool, how do
I use this technique, how do Igo and apply it?
And you know there's only somuch you can do by yourself.
And then there's also a lot ofrestrictions from the client
(18:27):
perspective.
Right, you can't, you can'tjust throw AI into a project
with your, with your clients, ifthere's a lot of
confidentiality pieces involved,security, whatever it might be,
and so a lot of it just kind ofit's left up to the imagination
, I almost want to say, tofigure out how's this all work.
But for me it's, you know, alot of self practice, trying to
(18:51):
go and use that within my ownbusiness and the projects that
I'm doing, and then even workingwith some of the client teams
to kind of experiment hey, doesthis work for you or not?
And developing them as well.
Hey, does this work for you ornot?
Walt Sparling (19:06):
And developing them as well.
Yeah, I I've, I don't know.
I've been doing projectmanagement for for a few years
and I just transitioned from oneaccount to another.
I work for the same, uh,overarching, or the same
employer overall, but we doproject management as a service
and seven years on that accountI moved over to another one,
(19:27):
completely different industry,uh, but I'm I've only been there
two weeks and I'm I'm in atransition phase which ends
tomorrow.
Now I'll be full-time next week, but I was, I attended a
meeting today and they're likeso what do you think?
What did you learn today?
And I'm like that, it's all thesame.
The same issues that I justleft.
Yeah, you guys have to.
You know, it's just, it's allthe same.
The same issues that I justleft.
Yeah, you guys have too.
You know, it's just, it's adifferent, I don't know
(19:51):
different thing, but it's thesame.
Benjamin Chan (19:53):
Yeah, yeah, it's a bit of a different green on.
You know, whatever side of thepasture you're on, the problems
always seem to be the same.
But I think where I I don'tknow I always worry about is
what if there's a different wayto solve it?
Or what if there's a better wayto go and solve it?
Right, with all of these newtools, ai and things coming out
(20:15):
even the pieces around softskills, around around EQ, right
Of, am I thinking about it thewrong way?
Am I managing my team in a waythat could be better?
I don't know right, and you knowit's easy to default of.
I'll just do what I've alwaysbeen done, but then does that
(20:35):
actually make performance better?
So I think those kind ofquestions in my head always,
always something that I need togo and balance, along with all
of the content and all of theinformation out there, that man,
I feel like I need AI.
I just need the matrix, I justneed something to plug into the
back of my head and justdownload, dump, and then every
(20:56):
few weeks I go and get a newupload.
I don't know.
Walt Sparling (21:00):
I think the one thing that the struggle I've
seen a lot is, like youmentioned quite a few points
there about learning and doingand taking a different approach
to things and what I've.
I had a good interview recentlywith Isaiah Sanchez.
We talked about AI a lot and wealso talked about project
(21:20):
resources and one of thestruggles I see is I know
phenomenal pms that arestruggling and their projects
are falling behind and and it'sbecause they have too much on
their plate, but it's theexpectation and they they were
all bright-eyed and, you know,bushy-tailed, you know, two
years ago and now they're justlike moping and it's like
(21:43):
they're still delivering andthey're still delivering pretty
good work, but yeah at the endof the day, they're done,
they're fried, they're, they'regoing to bed or they're going on
on the patio.
It's like they're just done.
They don't have the opportunityto continue to learn, because
what I have found is the peoplethat continue to research and
learn are the ones that tend tobe more successful, because they
(22:04):
are always coming up with newideas and learning from others.
Working in a box and just doingit the same way you've always
done it doesn't tend to work outfor most.
I'm not saying all, but it'd benice to see the PMs have a
little more time and energy topursue learning new stuff.
Benjamin Chan (22:26):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I mean.
For me, what I love to do in mypodcast, the Organized Chaos
Cafe, is bring together peoplethat hear different voices,
different perspectives andreally just hearing about
different industries and howthat can cross-pollinate.
Part of that is from mymanagement consulting experience
, where it's just a ton ofdifferent industries and how
that can cross pollinate.
Part of that is from mymanagement consulting experience
, where it's just a ton ofdifferent industries right, and
(22:51):
I'm like, okay, why don't Ibring in a barbecue pit master
in to talk about what they doand how does project management
fit or not fit with that?
Why don't I bring in someonefrom the film industry?
What do they do right in termsof directors and producers and
all of the schedules and budgetthat they still have to manage?
And yet I don't see projectmanager anywhere on the credits
(23:13):
title.
So what are the things that wecould learn or share between
those industries to improve howwe go and do things right?
So's where I I love to havethose type of conversations so
what about?
Walt Sparling (23:31):
what about challenge?
I mean, we talk about what alot of pms deal with.
On challenges, what about youas an individual?
What, what kind of challengesdo you deal with?
Benjamin Chan (23:41):
Well, we'll take it from two different aspects.
One challenge, I guess, from abusiness perspective, is having
people understand the type ofservice that I'm offering,
because, again, there's not alot of people that provide the
type of coaching service that Ido provide, and so it takes a
(24:06):
bit for people to get their headwrapped around.
It's like oh so you're not doingmy project for me.
I'm like, no, oh, so you'rejust going to help out the
existing project manager, butthey suck.
It's like, no, no, they don'tsuck.
We, we can make them better.
Right, and getting getting themto understand how these type of
coaching experience can helpenhance project management.
(24:28):
So, a lot of it, I think thestruggle, is education From just
a professional perspective ofdoing consulting.
Challenges, I would say, arejust all the things that we
always deal with from PMs, right, communication, stakeholders,
and then that leads into budgetand schedule, all those types of
things.
So there's, there's that, andpersonally for me, I want to say
(24:53):
staying physically healthy isthe challenge.
Being able to find time to beable to take care of myself and
you know, over the past twoyears I've had, you know, I've
had a ruptured Achilles tendon,I've dislocated my knee and
stuff, playing sports andwhatnot, and so being able to
(25:15):
keep up the mobility andstrength and all those type of
things to do the things that Ilove.
Walt Sparling (25:21):
Yeah, I'm really trying to focus on that uh, yeah
, I, I'm really trying to focuson that.
That's a great focus.
Um, I'm kind of going throughthe same thing.
It's like you gotta keepyourself sharp and the older you
get the harder it is, it is.
Benjamin Chan (25:35):
I know I have to take like collagen supplements
and all this kind of stuff, butyou and me, you know it's it's
interesting, cause, um, one ofuh, I think it was one of the
podcasts or books that I wasreading around just that, you
have to remember to protect theasset and whether it's you in
your life or you in yourbusiness, you are the asset and
(25:56):
you need to spend your time togo and protect it.
Whether it's sleep, whetherit's eating, whether it's
exercise, whatever it might be,protect the asset.
Walt Sparling (26:05):
Great insight.
Okay, challenges Tools.
I remember reading yourresponses and I loved your
response on tools.
I get a lot of different and alot of people talk about
software.
Some people talk about itemsthat they use.
Yours was interesting.
Benjamin Chan (26:28):
Questions.
My favorite tool is usingquestions as my tool.
I'm actually making roundsthrough some of the PMI
conferences and chapters rightnow doing and chapters right now
doing more discussions about it, but it's really the powerful
use of tool, of questions as atool right, to be able to
(26:52):
understand, to be able to go anddiscover, to be able to have
that spark of curiosity tomotivate your team right.
And yeah, I just feel like thatif we don't start from that
place of curiosity to be able tounderstand, then that's where
(27:13):
things start to go and breakdown right.
Whether it's human relationships, whether it's things with your
team, communication, eq, allthose type of things, if we're
not willing to ask the questionsnot only of others but of
ourselves, to be more self-awareof ourselves, of like, should I
have done that or what could Ihave done better?
(27:34):
Right, asking those inquisitivequestions of ourselves, those
are the things that are going todrive our performance right.
Even if you want to go use AI,it's not going to matter if you
don't know what to ask AI, right, even if you have all of these
tools that people want to go andsay you know, whether it's a
(27:55):
cloud tool of ClickUp or Wrikeor whatever it might be.
Again, if you don't ask theright question for yourself of
what do you need it for and howdo you want to perform, it's
going to be useless to you, soit's just ai prompting, but it's
out in the real world exactly,I mean I can think of a couple
tool questions that I probablyuse a lot, the biggest one being
(28:18):
why, yes, why not?
Walt Sparling (28:22):
what, if have you ?
Yeah, yeah, that's a great tool, yeah so questions.
Benjamin Chan (28:32):
That's my favorite tool to use in my job
all right.
Walt Sparling (28:35):
So one of my favorite questions is did you
know?
Do you have a?
Did you know for us?
Benjamin Chan (28:42):
I know I do have one.
Did you know I jumped off ofmacau tower during a typhoon
three and I am afraid of heightsI have seen that tower and I've
seen photos.
Walt Sparling (28:57):
No, thank you it is intimidating.
Benjamin Chan (29:02):
My wife is not even as afraid of heights as I
am.
Like I, I get the jitters, andI was.
I have a penchant for jumpingoff the deep end into ideas and
trying to go and see whathappens.
This is one of them.
I was like I don't know whenI'm gonna be back here again if
(29:22):
I don't do it.
And this opportunity is here.
I I feel like I'm gonna to missout, so I'm just going to go
ahead and and do the bungee jump.
Now I did do it great.
But even the after effectswhenever I I would even think
about it like I could feel mylegs wobble all over again.
I could feel that wholesensation and that was like for
(29:43):
days.
Like we went back from macauover into hong kong and I
remember just walking throughthe hong kong streets would be
shopping or something like that,and a brief memory of the macau
tower jump would pop into myhead and I would just be like,
okay, I gotta sit down.
So, yeah, I got plenty morecrazy things I'm going to be
(30:06):
doing this year.
I don't know if I'm ready to goand share them yet, but I'll
share.
One is I am going to go and tryand do a quick stand up comedy
routine at an open mic this year.
So that's one.
Walt Sparling (30:24):
Well, kudos to you.
I have a friend of mine who'sjust, who's been doing that for
a couple of months now and hehad his first actual stage show
about a month ago.
Now he's going, gangbusters,he's.
He's going all over the place.
Benjamin Chan (30:37):
That's good.
I don't know if I'll be assuccessful, but I figured again
intrusive thoughts.
Walt Sparling (30:43):
I'm like should I do it?
I'll just go ahead and do it.
We'll see how it goes well.
Benjamin Chan (30:49):
You don't know until you try exactly exactly oh
, that's exciting.
Well, if it's filmed, you'llhave to share oh, I don't know
if I want to film it only fromthe perspective of um I.
I think my pastor will be there.
I'm not sure if my wife will bethere, but I'm just trying not
to get canceled, excommunicated,divorced or homeless.
(31:12):
So, that's a yeah, yeah.
That's what I'm trying not togo and do, and so, uh, I'm not
sure if the internet would beready for that.
Walt Sparling (31:23):
I'm not sure if the internet would be ready for
that.
So, in order to get ahold ofyou for someone, whether it be a
company or an individual,that's interested in your
coaching, or or save the projectright, you know, project rescue
, yeah.
How is the best way for peopleto get ahold of you?
Benjamin Chan (31:39):
So people can get ahold of me on.
Linkedin is the best placeright now.
Look up PM coach Ben, becausethat's going to be my moniker.
Or look up my name, BenjaminChan.
It'll be myself.
I have a blue background andeverything like that.
That's the best place to gethold of me.
Yeah, and that's where I put upa lot of different content on
(32:01):
project leadership topics aswell.
As you know, differentthinkings, ways of thinking for
various different mindset itemsand project management, and I
love having conversations.
So if you want to, you can findme there.
Walt Sparling (32:19):
Awesome.
Well, in the show notes I willshare your LinkedIn link and if
you have anything specific likeany side links or other things
you want to share, send themover to me and I'll add them in
there as well.
I'll send a.
I'll share a link on the Macautower Cause I did look that up
(32:40):
so pretty scary and I appreciateyou coming on and I hope in the
future we can maybe dive into aproject rescue and you can tell
us a little bit about how thatworks.
Benjamin Chan (32:53):
Absolutely.
I'd be more than happy toThanks so much, Walt.
Walt Sparling (32:56):
All right, thank you and for everyone else, we'll
see you on the next episode ofPM Mastery.
Intro/Outro (33:01):
Thanks for listening to the PM Mastery
podcast at wwwpm-masterycom.
Be sure to subscribe in yourpodcast player.
Until next time, keep workingon your craft.
Welcome to the PM Mastery Podcast.
This podcast is all abouthelping you master your project
management skills by sharingtips, tricks, tools and training
to get you to the next level,while sharing the stories of
other project managers on theirjourney in project management.
And now here's your host, waltSparling.
Walt Sparling (00:36):
Welcome everybody to the current edition of PM
Mastery, and today I have withme Benjamin Chan.
Welcome, benjamin.
Benjamin Chan (00:44):
Welcome.
Thank you for having me on.
Walt Sparling (00:47):
Well, it's good to have you.
We're going to talk a littlebit about who you are, what you
do, why you do it, the typicalstuff, and, first off, so
everybody gets to know a littlebit who doesn't already know you
tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Benjamin Chan (01:00):
Sure, my name is Benjamin Chan.
I live in Calgary, alberta, upnorth in Canada, and for who I
am, I'd say I'm aChinese-Canadian, I'm a husband,
I'm a father of two, I got onedog and, like any Canadian, I
love hockey.
So right now it is during theplayoff season, so it's
(01:24):
definitely a lot of differentteams to go and watch and enjoy.
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (01:30):
We have the lightning here, boo, they've
been kicking butt, yeah, allright, so what is it that you do
?
Benjamin Chan (01:45):
So for me, I'm a project management leadership
success coach.
I also do project managementconsulting for various different
clients, but primarily focusingon the coaching piece of it and
what that is, and some peoplemight not know because there's
so many different coaches outthere and some people might not
know because there's so manydifferent coaches out there.
(02:05):
There's, you know, the PMPcertification coach.
There's career coaches helpingpeople find their jobs and find
PM transitions right.
For me, I'm focused on beingable to help project managers
excel, being able to go and helpthem go and meet their
challenges and advance inside oftheir career by leveraging
(02:28):
their own leadership skills,developing them, being able to
find what's unique about themand being able to help them
shine.
And for me, it's really justmyself and seeing how all of
these I'd say how so many ofthese project managers really
struggle even with acertification when they're
coming out, say they're one tofive years into their career and
(02:51):
it's not necessarily an easyjourney.
Right, organizations sometimesexpect them to be able to go and
deliver off the bat and for me,I want to be able to help more
of the project managers notnecessarily go into the sink or
swim mentality that they do havea life vest or a I don't know
(03:13):
those buoys to be able to bethrown out there for them to be
able to grab on, so that theycan succeed as well.
Walt Sparling (03:20):
So that would be your, why You're trying to help
people, not struggle so much andgetting yeah.
Benjamin Chan (03:28):
I mean this.
This really came out from myown experience.
I've been involved in a lot ofdifferent rescue projects and
for me it was interesting,because I'm not necessarily a
subject matter expert.
I'd say right, I don'tnecessarily have a specific
industry I focus on, nor do Ihave a specific project type
(03:48):
that I say.
You know, I am an ERP softwareimplementer or a game developer
or a product deliverer.
Right, I don't have thatspecific of industry or area of
expertise.
And so my management consultingexperience has taken me across
a lot of different industriesand a lot of different projects,
(04:11):
and so it sometimes came as asurprise to me where people
would come to me and say, hey,we need you to go and rescue
this project.
It's not doing so.
Well, we need someone to go andhelp out, and I'm more than
happy to.
And what really, I guess,spurred my thinking was trying
to understand exactly one why me, right, I don't have the
(04:34):
subject matter expertise in thatarea, so what do I have that's
allowed me to be successful?
And two, for the projectmanager that I was essentially
replacing, where was the supportfor them?
And that really got me thinkingof what if, rather than having
me come in and just deliver theproject from that point on to
(04:57):
the end, what if we were able togo and provide a different
channel of support for thoseproject managers?
That if there were challenges,if there were areas where it is
starting to get to a dumpsterfire.
Right, rather than changing outthe coach and changing out the
project manager.
What if there was a differentway that we could help those
project managers be able to goand succeed?
(05:19):
Right, given them a little bitof a different path.
And that's why I started doingmy project leadership success
coaching.
Because the organizationssometimes they look to that
replacement of project managertoo soon and the impact of that
to the project and organizationis you're probably getting at
least three or more months ofproject burn, you lose
(05:42):
institutional knowledge, andthen you got to ramp down, you
got to ramp back up the newperson.
There's no guaranteenecessarily that that new person
will do well either, and theteam morale, all of the
productivity that also starts todrop as well, right.
So there's so many differentthings that need to be handled,
and yet the project manager is alittle bit of a nexus point
(06:05):
there that can greatly improveif they're given the right
support, and I just didn't seeanyone in the market being able
to go and provide that.
So that's a little bit more ofwhy I do what I do.
Walt Sparling (06:19):
I think it's interesting.
You talk about replacing a PMversus coaching a PM.
I think a good opportunity inmy mind would be a coaching PM
that is hired by a company tobring in and say listen, we're
struggling with this project.
The PM's got knowledge, butthey're lacking in certain skill
(06:40):
sets.
We want you to come in and helprescue, but instead of taking
over the project, we want you towork with this individual.
Therefore, building moreexperience on that individual.
You're still doing your partand when it's all done, they get
a PM that knows more than whenhe started.
Benjamin Chan (06:57):
Absolutely.
And hey, if anyone out therewants to go and do that, please,
please, give me a call.
But you're absolutely right.
That portion of being able togo and have someone be able to
provide that I'll say objective,safe area to ideate and find
new solutions and develop theirskills is something that's not
(07:20):
really there anymore, like evenwith the PMOs.
If a project manager isstruggling and they go to the
PMO and says I don't know whatI'm doing, they're probably
going to get rid of you fairlyquickly.
It's not exactly a safe space tobe able to go and do that,
because they want to have thesuccess of the project and they
may then feel that the best wayto have the project be
(07:42):
successful is to go and replacethe PM.
And I just feel like thatthere's an opportunity for a
different option, a differentchoice to be made where the
project manager can also go anddevelop and grow, learn more
skills, take on more complexprojects.
The project can hopefully thenreach to a better level where it
(08:03):
can be successful.
Project can hopefully thenreach to a better level where it
can be successful.
Walt Sparling (08:08):
And so it's a win-win in everyone's book.
I think it's.
Another interesting thing I wasthinking about is you know
companies that are willing tobring in someone from the
outside to rescue a project and,to your point, a lot of these
companies aren't educating theirown staff, their own PMs,
they're not giving them thesupport they need, but they're
bringing someone else to do thateffort.
(08:32):
The one thing I think is anadvantage I've dealt with a lot
of different size projects andcomplexity and when you work for
someone for a long time whetherit's in a company or even as in
a consultant role for a longtime, like project management as
a service the client gets alittle comfortable with you and
they start having certainexpectations.
And then, when things don'twork out, they're like well,
(08:52):
obviously you guys don't knowwhat you're doing.
We've got to bring someone elsein and, like you want to tell
them it's not us, it's you.
You know there's certainexpectations that you have are
unrealistic and I've heard thisfrom multiple people but they'll
bring in a consultant and thenthey'll just go oh, that's what
we got to do.
We've been telling them thatsame thing.
(09:13):
Oh, but we'll listen to theconsultant.
I think there is an advantage tocoming in from the outside like
that.
Benjamin Chan (09:20):
Yeah, and even if it's from a temporary
perspective and I knoworganizations they love the done
for you approach of I justdon't want to worry about it
anymore, just take it off myhands but it doesn't play well
necessarily into the long termgoal of the organization, right,
the strategy of what they'retrying to achieve.
(09:40):
If you have stronger employeesthat can be able to go and do
more, if you have it more as adone with you approach where you
can help build up some of thatskill and capability within the
organization, that organizationcan probably go further, right,
I mean it's great to be able tocall, be called upon and have it
done for you, but, man, it canbe stressful and for the
(10:03):
organization.
Once that consultant leaves,you are back to finding another
project manager.
Walt Sparling (10:09):
And you're just adding, as we talked about
earlier, it's adding cost andburn to the schedule, which is
cost, but at the additionalconsulting costs.
Benjamin Chan (10:19):
Yeah, exactly.
Walt Sparling (10:20):
So that's like going in with a company to save.
But your other aspect was whereyou were going is helping PMs
learn and grow, which is awesome, because if they're not getting
support within their owncompany, this is an outlet for
them to go and say, hey, help me, what am I doing?
How can I get better?
Benjamin Chan (10:40):
Yeah, yeah, and it's both as a proactive and as
a reactive approach, right?
No-transcript.
(11:11):
Have someone else from ourorganization be able to go
mentor One.
That mentor is probably superbusy with their own projects,
right?
They're handling probably morecomplex projects that are higher
priority and at the same time,there's always the I'd say the
problem with advice.
Right, that you're going togive out advice and the other
(11:31):
person's going to look at it andgo.
Well, it doesn't quite apply inmy situation because of reason
X, y and Z.
Right, because every project isa little bit different, there's
different variables around itand coaching is really centered
on more of an introspective lookof what could we work with in
your situation to get you?
Walt Sparling (11:49):
moving forward.
I kind of look at coaching andmentoring as completely
different.
Like coaching is you're reallyin my mind in our industry as a
leader I was, you know.
I had a team and I coached some, I mentored some.
I did both for some, but to methey're different.
Coaching is in, mine is okay,these are skillsets you need to
(12:12):
work on.
This is how you can go aboutdoing that.
These are the tools you use.
This is how the best way to usethem, or at least in my, my
experience you can adjust.
And then mentoring is more likekind of bigger picture,
long-term, how you know what.
What are you struggling with,like on a philosophical basis,
not necessarily skill set, likemaybe some communication issues
(12:34):
which could be skill set, butit's also personality driven, I
I just think.
And mentorship is more likeleading by example, where
coaching is actually teaching.
Benjamin Chan (12:47):
Yeah, it'd be a combination of the two.
I'd say, in terms of my styleof coaching, it's more aligned
to what is provided through theICF, the International Coaching
Federation, where it is a lotmore of asking questions to go
and develop the resiliency anddeveloping their own answers
right or helping them reachcertain conclusions so that they
(13:09):
can move forward.
But and this is where I thinksometimes that coaching aspect
it does need to have a littlebit more flexibility,
information or a little bit moreexplanation so that people can
understand how does it actuallywork right?
And that's why, with my clients, I always say you know what,
(13:32):
we're not going to dive straightinto it.
I'll give you one free one sothat you can understand how it
actually works.
Because if you are coached andyou don't want to be coached,
that is a very difficultrelationship to manage and I've
been in one of those before.
Only it was flipped, I wasbeing coached and I had no idea
(13:53):
I was being coached.
I just thought this is aridiculous experience, and so it
can be frustrating if you'renot a willing participant.
Walt Sparling (14:01):
So in your like, let's just say you're
participant.
So in your like, let's just sayyou're when you're helping PMs.
Do you find that there arespecific items that you see as
more of a struggle for PMs?
Benjamin Chan (14:14):
I think a lot of it is.
They reach into problems thatthey've never encountered before
.
Right, and typically they haveto do with people management,
right, whether it's with theirstakeholders or their sponsor,
executive sponsors, whatever itmight be and it then becomes a
(14:36):
bit of a combination ofsometimes it's decision-making,
communication, right, being ableto go and exercise conflict
management as well as issueresolution.
How are you supposed to go andspeak to be able to get people
to see your side of the view?
Right, combined withstorytelling.
So there's usually a multitudeof different things as well as
(14:59):
just being able to take adifferent perspective on the
problem that they're facing.
What I find for a lot ofproject managers is they get a
lot of feedback backwards ofsaying what's wrong, but then
they're not really told whatthey could do to make it better,
and that creates a bit of aroadblock from the perspective
(15:20):
that they just don't know whatto do with that information.
Yeah, I can see that.
What to do with thatinformation?
Right?
Walt Sparling (15:26):
Yeah, I can see that I didn't enjoy that meeting
.
Benjamin Chan (15:28):
It's like, okay, well, what didn't you enjoy?
It's like I just didn't like it.
Okay, Well, where do I go fromhere?
Right.
Walt Sparling (15:34):
Yeah, that was all wrong.
Well, what about this?
No things Right, and thenyou're going through the
checklist of what's wrong ratherthan what could I be doing.
That's right.
Benjamin Chan (15:47):
We tried this.
Walt Sparling (15:48):
We tried this.
We tried this, yeah, yeah, okay.
So who, what?
Why now, as a coach?
And you mentioned a coachingorganization, so it's that, I
assume, set standards forcoaching.
How do you keep up with yourskill sets, whether it be just
in project management industryor in the coaching aspect?
Benjamin Chan (16:13):
Well, one is following amazing content
creators like yourself, as wellas from other people, just
trying to understand a lot ofthe different trends in news,
right?
Pmi has a lot of greatnewsletters and learning modules
inside of there.
They're obviously stepping uptheir game inside of AI and so
(16:35):
being able to keep up with thosepieces.
Podcasts for me at least, foraudiobooks and I'll say, more
around critical thinking type ofpodcasts, right?
So the one I love listening tois no Stupid Questions.
It's one from Angela Duckworth,from Freakonomics.
(16:56):
Those ones just always kind ofget me thinking about things.
And how do things apply intothe project management world?
And just connecting with otherpeople right, understanding what
are they struggling with,engaging with them and asking
them the questions of what areyour problems.
That's kind of how I've kept upwith it for the most part, but
(17:19):
I'd say it's getting harder andharder because there's just so
much information out there.
Walt Sparling (17:23):
Oh, it's like information overload.
Benjamin Chan (17:26):
Oh, I know.
Walt Sparling (17:27):
I mean, we're both involved in a couple of
communities on LinkedIn that arephenomenal.
I mean, some of these people, Ifelt like I met them at one
point, interviewed many of them,and now I feel like they're
like neighbors or friends.
You know, it's like we've beeninteracting for years now and
(17:49):
it's like, wow, that was greatcontent they just put out.
Or wow, you know, I neverthought about that.
Or oh, that's, that's greatstuff.
And I mean there's somephenomenal ones out there and
the lives that we've done, notnot only myself, but, uh,
jeremiah and john connelly.
There's so much, so much dataout there, so much to share and
learn.
Benjamin Chan (18:06):
Yeah, and I almost feel I don't know, like
I'm always a little a stepbehind right Cause everyone
seems to be reading up on things.
I'm like, oh my gosh, how do I,how do I get this tool, how do
I use this technique, how do Igo and apply it?
And you know there's only somuch you can do by yourself.
And then there's also a lot ofrestrictions from the client
(18:27):
perspective.
Right, you can't, you can'tjust throw AI into a project
with your, with your clients, ifthere's a lot of
confidentiality pieces involved,security, whatever it might be,
and so a lot of it just kind ofit's left up to the imagination
, I almost want to say, tofigure out how's this all work.
But for me it's, you know, alot of self practice, trying to
(18:51):
go and use that within my ownbusiness and the projects that
I'm doing, and then even workingwith some of the client teams
to kind of experiment hey, doesthis work for you or not?
And developing them as well.
Hey, does this work for you ornot?
Walt Sparling (19:06):
And developing them as well.
Yeah, I I've, I don't know.
I've been doing projectmanagement for for a few years
and I just transitioned from oneaccount to another.
I work for the same, uh,overarching, or the same
employer overall, but we doproject management as a service
and seven years on that accountI moved over to another one,
(19:27):
completely different industry,uh, but I'm I've only been there
two weeks and I'm I'm in atransition phase which ends
tomorrow.
Now I'll be full-time next week, but I was, I attended a
meeting today and they're likeso what do you think?
What did you learn today?
And I'm like that, it's all thesame.
The same issues that I justleft.
Yeah, you guys have to.
You know, it's just, it's allthe same.
The same issues that I justleft.
Yeah, you guys have too.
You know, it's just, it's adifferent, I don't know
(19:51):
different thing, but it's thesame.
Benjamin Chan (19:53):
Yeah, yeah, it's a bit of a different green on.
You know, whatever side of thepasture you're on, the problems
always seem to be the same.
But I think where I I don'tknow I always worry about is
what if there's a different wayto solve it?
Or what if there's a better wayto go and solve it?
Right, with all of these newtools, ai and things coming out
(20:15):
even the pieces around softskills, around around EQ, right
Of, am I thinking about it thewrong way?
Am I managing my team in a waythat could be better?
I don't know right, and you knowit's easy to default of.
I'll just do what I've alwaysbeen done, but then does that
(20:35):
actually make performance better?
So I think those kind ofquestions in my head always,
always something that I need togo and balance, along with all
of the content and all of theinformation out there, that man,
I feel like I need AI.
I just need the matrix, I justneed something to plug into the
back of my head and justdownload, dump, and then every
(20:56):
few weeks I go and get a newupload.
I don't know.
Walt Sparling (21:00):
I think the one thing that the struggle I've
seen a lot is, like youmentioned quite a few points
there about learning and doingand taking a different approach
to things and what I've.
I had a good interview recentlywith Isaiah Sanchez.
We talked about AI a lot and wealso talked about project
(21:20):
resources and one of thestruggles I see is I know
phenomenal pms that arestruggling and their projects
are falling behind and and it'sbecause they have too much on
their plate, but it's theexpectation and they they were
all bright-eyed and, you know,bushy-tailed, you know, two
years ago and now they're justlike moping and it's like
(21:43):
they're still delivering andthey're still delivering pretty
good work, but yeah at the endof the day, they're done,
they're fried, they're, they'regoing to bed or they're going on
on the patio.
It's like they're just done.
They don't have the opportunityto continue to learn, because
what I have found is the peoplethat continue to research and
learn are the ones that tend tobe more successful, because they
(22:04):
are always coming up with newideas and learning from others.
Working in a box and just doingit the same way you've always
done it doesn't tend to work outfor most.
I'm not saying all, but it'd benice to see the PMs have a
little more time and energy topursue learning new stuff.
Benjamin Chan (22:26):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I mean.
For me, what I love to do in mypodcast, the Organized Chaos
Cafe, is bring together peoplethat hear different voices,
different perspectives andreally just hearing about
different industries and howthat can cross-pollinate.
Part of that is from mymanagement consulting experience
, where it's just a ton ofdifferent industries and how
that can cross pollinate.
Part of that is from mymanagement consulting experience
, where it's just a ton ofdifferent industries right, and
(22:51):
I'm like, okay, why don't Ibring in a barbecue pit master
in to talk about what they doand how does project management
fit or not fit with that?
Why don't I bring in someonefrom the film industry?
What do they do right in termsof directors and producers and
all of the schedules and budgetthat they still have to manage?
And yet I don't see projectmanager anywhere on the credits
(23:13):
title.
So what are the things that wecould learn or share between
those industries to improve howwe go and do things right?
So's where I I love to havethose type of conversations so
what about?
Walt Sparling (23:31):
what about challenge?
I mean, we talk about what alot of pms deal with.
On challenges, what about youas an individual?
What, what kind of challengesdo you deal with?
Benjamin Chan (23:41):
Well, we'll take it from two different aspects.
One challenge, I guess, from abusiness perspective, is having
people understand the type ofservice that I'm offering,
because, again, there's not alot of people that provide the
type of coaching service that Ido provide, and so it takes a
(24:06):
bit for people to get their headwrapped around.
It's like oh so you're not doingmy project for me.
I'm like, no, oh, so you'rejust going to help out the
existing project manager, butthey suck.
It's like, no, no, they don'tsuck.
We, we can make them better.
Right, and getting getting themto understand how these type of
coaching experience can helpenhance project management.
(24:28):
So, a lot of it, I think thestruggle, is education From just
a professional perspective ofdoing consulting.
Challenges, I would say, arejust all the things that we
always deal with from PMs, right, communication, stakeholders,
and then that leads into budgetand schedule, all those types of
things.
So there's, there's that, andpersonally for me, I want to say
(24:53):
staying physically healthy isthe challenge.
Being able to find time to beable to take care of myself and
you know, over the past twoyears I've had, you know, I've
had a ruptured Achilles tendon,I've dislocated my knee and
stuff, playing sports andwhatnot, and so being able to
(25:15):
keep up the mobility andstrength and all those type of
things to do the things that Ilove.
Walt Sparling (25:21):
Yeah, I'm really trying to focus on that uh, yeah
, I, I'm really trying to focuson that.
That's a great focus.
Um, I'm kind of going throughthe same thing.
It's like you gotta keepyourself sharp and the older you
get the harder it is, it is.
Benjamin Chan (25:35):
I know I have to take like collagen supplements
and all this kind of stuff, butyou and me, you know it's it's
interesting, cause, um, one ofuh, I think it was one of the
podcasts or books that I wasreading around just that, you
have to remember to protect theasset and whether it's you in
your life or you in yourbusiness, you are the asset and
(25:56):
you need to spend your time togo and protect it.
Whether it's sleep, whetherit's eating, whether it's
exercise, whatever it might be,protect the asset.
Walt Sparling (26:05):
Great insight.
Okay, challenges Tools.
I remember reading yourresponses and I loved your
response on tools.
I get a lot of different and alot of people talk about
software.
Some people talk about itemsthat they use.
Yours was interesting.
Benjamin Chan (26:28):
Questions.
My favorite tool is usingquestions as my tool.
I'm actually making roundsthrough some of the PMI
conferences and chapters rightnow doing and chapters right now
doing more discussions about it, but it's really the powerful
use of tool, of questions as atool right, to be able to
(26:52):
understand, to be able to go anddiscover, to be able to have
that spark of curiosity tomotivate your team right.
And yeah, I just feel like thatif we don't start from that
place of curiosity to be able tounderstand, then that's where
(27:13):
things start to go and breakdown right.
Whether it's human relationships, whether it's things with your
team, communication, eq, allthose type of things, if we're
not willing to ask the questionsnot only of others but of
ourselves, to be more self-awareof ourselves, of like, should I
have done that or what could Ihave done better?
(27:34):
Right, asking those inquisitivequestions of ourselves, those
are the things that are going todrive our performance right.
Even if you want to go use AI,it's not going to matter if you
don't know what to ask AI, right, even if you have all of these
tools that people want to go andsay you know, whether it's a
(27:55):
cloud tool of ClickUp or Wrikeor whatever it might be.
Again, if you don't ask theright question for yourself of
what do you need it for and howdo you want to perform, it's
going to be useless to you, soit's just ai prompting, but it's
out in the real world exactly,I mean I can think of a couple
tool questions that I probablyuse a lot, the biggest one being
(28:18):
why, yes, why not?
Walt Sparling (28:22):
what, if have you ?
Yeah, yeah, that's a great tool, yeah so questions.
Benjamin Chan (28:32):
That's my favorite tool to use in my job
all right.
Walt Sparling (28:35):
So one of my favorite questions is did you
know?
Do you have a?
Did you know for us?
Benjamin Chan (28:42):
I know I do have one.
Did you know I jumped off ofmacau tower during a typhoon
three and I am afraid of heightsI have seen that tower and I've
seen photos.
Walt Sparling (28:57):
No, thank you it is intimidating.
Benjamin Chan (29:02):
My wife is not even as afraid of heights as I
am.
Like I, I get the jitters, andI was.
I have a penchant for jumpingoff the deep end into ideas and
trying to go and see whathappens.
This is one of them.
I was like I don't know whenI'm gonna be back here again if
(29:22):
I don't do it.
And this opportunity is here.
I I feel like I'm gonna to missout, so I'm just going to go
ahead and and do the bungee jump.
Now I did do it great.
But even the after effectswhenever I I would even think
about it like I could feel mylegs wobble all over again.
I could feel that wholesensation and that was like for
(29:43):
days.
Like we went back from macauover into hong kong and I
remember just walking throughthe hong kong streets would be
shopping or something like that,and a brief memory of the macau
tower jump would pop into myhead and I would just be like,
okay, I gotta sit down.
So, yeah, I got plenty morecrazy things I'm going to be
(30:06):
doing this year.
I don't know if I'm ready to goand share them yet, but I'll
share.
One is I am going to go and tryand do a quick stand up comedy
routine at an open mic this year.
So that's one.
Walt Sparling (30:24):
Well, kudos to you.
I have a friend of mine who'sjust, who's been doing that for
a couple of months now and hehad his first actual stage show
about a month ago.
Now he's going, gangbusters,he's.
He's going all over the place.
Benjamin Chan (30:37):
That's good.
I don't know if I'll be assuccessful, but I figured again
intrusive thoughts.
Walt Sparling (30:43):
I'm like should I do it?
I'll just go ahead and do it.
We'll see how it goes well.
Benjamin Chan (30:49):
You don't know until you try exactly exactly oh
, that's exciting.
Well, if it's filmed, you'llhave to share oh, I don't know
if I want to film it only fromthe perspective of um I.
I think my pastor will be there.
I'm not sure if my wife will bethere, but I'm just trying not
to get canceled, excommunicated,divorced or homeless.
(31:12):
So, that's a yeah, yeah.
That's what I'm trying not togo and do, and so, uh, I'm not
sure if the internet would beready for that.
Walt Sparling (31:23):
I'm not sure if the internet would be ready for
that.
So, in order to get ahold ofyou for someone, whether it be a
company or an individual,that's interested in your
coaching, or or save the projectright, you know, project rescue
, yeah.
How is the best way for peopleto get ahold of you?
Benjamin Chan (31:39):
So people can get ahold of me on.
Linkedin is the best placeright now.
Look up PM coach Ben, becausethat's going to be my moniker.
Or look up my name, BenjaminChan.
It'll be myself.
I have a blue background andeverything like that.
That's the best place to gethold of me.
Yeah, and that's where I put upa lot of different content on
(32:01):
project leadership topics aswell.
As you know, differentthinkings, ways of thinking for
various different mindset itemsand project management, and I
love having conversations.
So if you want to, you can findme there.
Walt Sparling (32:19):
Awesome.
Well, in the show notes I willshare your LinkedIn link and if
you have anything specific likeany side links or other things
you want to share, send themover to me and I'll add them in
there as well.
I'll send a.
I'll share a link on the Macautower Cause I did look that up
(32:40):
so pretty scary and I appreciateyou coming on and I hope in the
future we can maybe dive into aproject rescue and you can tell
us a little bit about how thatworks.
Benjamin Chan (32:53):
Absolutely.
I'd be more than happy toThanks so much, Walt.
Walt Sparling (32:56):
All right, thank you and for everyone else, we'll
see you on the next episode ofPM Mastery.
Intro/Outro (33:01):
Thanks for listening to the PM Mastery
podcast at wwwpm-masterycom.
Be sure to subscribe in yourpodcast player.
Until next time, keep workingon your craft.
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