Navigating the Project Management Landscape: Insights and Opportunities with Melissa (Chapman) Magee
February 11, 2025 • 20 mins
Join us for an inspirational conversation with Melissa Chapman, a trailblazing project manager currently blazing new trails in the food and beverage industry. Melissa shares her incredible journey from being the first project manager at her previous company to her exciting new role at Chaucer Foods. She provides a compelling look into how she navigated this transition and her involvement with the innovative certification, Pure Project Manager, created by Joseph Phillips. Through Melissa’s experiences, listeners will gain valuable insights into effective communication strategies, stakeholder analysis, and the art of tailoring messages to diverse audiences.
Ever considered a career shift into project management? We explore a professional development pathway that could be your ticket into the field. Discover how coaching and certifications like PMP and the Project Manager can pave the way for aspiring project managers. From resume reviews to interview prep and bi-weekly coaching, we discuss the tools and support that Mellissa helps current and future PMs make their transition smoother. We encourage you to stay ahead in this ever-evolving discipline. Whether you're a seasoned veteran or just starting your journey, this episode promises to equip you with practical tips to enhance your project management prowess.
Episode Links:
- Connect with Melissa on LinkedIn: Melissa (Chapman) Magee, PMP | LinkedIn
- Melissa's Website - Topmate: https://topmate.io/melissa_chapman
- Check out Melissa's PURE course: https://www.puremanagementalliance.com/#67586028ee420
- Project Manager Accelerator: https://www.bettercareer.org/pm-accelerator
PM-Mastery Links:
- For a full podcast episode list, visit here: PM-Mastery Podcast Episodes.
- For a full list of blog posts, go here: PM-Mastery Blog Posts
- Become a PURE PM: https://pm-mastery.com/pure
- Check out Instructing.com for all your PM course needs: https://www.instructing.com/?ref=bd5e5c
- Get your free PDU Tracker here: https://pm-mastery.com/resource_links/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro/Outro (00:12):
Welcome to the PM Mastery Podcast.
This podcast is all abouthelping you master your project
management skills by sharingtips, tricks, tools and training
to get you to the next level,while sharing the stories of
other project managers on theirjourney in project management.
And now here's your host, waltSparling.
Walt Sparling (00:36):
All right, welcome everybody to the current
edition of PM Mastery.
And today I have back onceagain Melissa Chapman.
Welcome back, melissa.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (00:44):
Thanks, walt, it's great to be here.
Walt Sparling (00:47):
Good to always have conversations with you.
So you were on back in Decemberas part of the top five of
episodes of all time, which wasexciting, and the folks that
were on there they're still inthe top five, so it's continuing
on.
So we've kind of caught up withmost of what's going on.
(01:08):
But I know you made a kind of ateaser announcement today and
on a new job you're going to berolling into and since this
won't post until after youactually start the job, we can't
ask you how it's going, but wecan ask you what it is and what
you're excited about.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (01:32):
Yeah, yeah.
So today was my last day at mymy current job, and it's been
such a great place for me topivot from teaching into project
management.
You know, as you know, I wasthe first project manager at the
company for quite a while.
They just started a PMO a fewmonths ago, but up until then I
was the only PM and so I wascreating all kinds of processes
and all those things, and sothis new job is a brand new
industry.
I'm pivoting to a company calledChaucer Foods and they it's the
(01:54):
food and beverage industry.
I'll be a project and portfoliomanager, so I'll I'll be
managing a portfolio of projectsand helping helping to
determine the types of projectsthat we take on.
I'll be specifically in the B2Bpart of the business and they
do dry fruit and vegetablefreeze, dried fruit and
vegetables.
(02:14):
So, for example, like the fruitthat is in, like Kellogg cereal
, the dried fruit.
Or like the fruit in like aStarbucks drink right, that
dried fruit.
They produce that fruit andthey're connected all over the
world.
They're in the UK and Franceand China and LA, so very
excited about it.
It's a hybrid role for me andI'll get to do some traveling
(02:35):
and already in a couple of weekswe'll get to travel down to
Southern California for like abig expo and very excited about
the role in my getting toutilize all the skills that I
have used in the past with allmy other positions and get to
like help create the processesagain.
It's a new role at the companyso I get to kind of determine
some of those things again, sovery, very excited about it.
Walt Sparling (02:56):
You keep rolling into them first roles.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (02:59):
I like those.
Walt Sparling (03:00):
Those two are very exciting.
You're setting the precedencefor everyone else that follows.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (03:04):
I like it.
Yep, I like it, yep, I like it.
Set the bar high.
Walt Sparling (03:07):
Good deal.
So on top of that, I knowyou've got a lot of other things
going on.
You do some training courses,you do some coaching and we're
going to put links to all ofthat in our show notes.
You and I were a part of alarge group of 25 different
(03:31):
instructors that did somecourses for a new project
management certification calledthe Pure Project Manager, and
it's by Pure Management Alliance, and we all know the guy who
started it all, joseph Phillipsgreat guy, been around a long
time, awesome instructor and, uh, it was released on Monday, the
27th.
So, as a instructor in there,can you tell us a little bit
(03:55):
about, maybe, either how you gotinto it or what your course is
about and let's share it witheveryone?
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (04:02):
Yeah, it's funny.
I got an email in July fromAmanda Chambers, who is, you
know, joe's assistant, and Ithought it was spam email,
because I get a lot of theseemails that are like, hey, we
want you to be an instructor, wewant you to create this content
, or I get those kind of quiteoften, but most of the time it's
(04:22):
kind of spammy or something I'mnot interested in.
So I frankly thought it was oneof those and I ignored it.
And then she reached out to meon LinkedIn and said, hey, did
you get my email?
That wasn't spam, this is real.
And so once I realized you knowwho she was and who she worked
for, I was so shocked I said,wait, joe Phillips knows who I
am.
I had no idea she goes.
Of course he does, he's beenfollowing you, he's excited to
have you part of this project,and so you know it was an easy
(04:45):
yes, absolutely yes.
And so then, from there, youknow, as you know, we got to
kind of think about the topicthat we wanted to teach on, and
for me, communication withinproject management and just in
life is such an important topicthat that was a no-brainer.
It's something that I talk abouta lot and feel like is an
important thing for everyone tohone their skills.
(05:06):
So, yeah, so the title of mycourse is Knowing your Audience,
tailoring your Message forOutcome-Based Communication, and
the idea is that you know, weall talk all day and send
messages all day, but how do youmake sure that the person on
the other end is receiving it ina way that makes sense to them
and is what they really need tobe able to either understand
your message, interpret yourmessage, do what you need them
(05:29):
to do with your message, and sothat's a lot of what I talk
about is just how to understandwho they are.
So, you know, doing astakeholder analysis and
figuring out which stakeholdersneed which level of
communication, what's the bestmode of communication.
Sometimes a text message isreally great.
Sometimes that's super nothelpful and not a great way to
communicate something right, andso all of those pieces of
(05:50):
communication and how to takegood meeting notes and what a
good agenda looks like, and howto send a recap that includes,
like, the owner and the task andwho's you know who's
responsible when, and all thosethings.
So just a lot of things that Ithink are really important and
are skills that can be learnedand fine-tuned, and project
leaders meeting leaders couldall use some of those
(06:12):
communication skills.
Walt Sparling (06:15):
So what I think is interesting is and you and I
chatted about this in the earlypart of the program is I'm big
on communication and I'veactually written a chapter in
John Connolly's book about itand I write about it in in blogs
and stuff.
My I wanted to do mine oncommunication and I saw your
outline and we get to create ourown course outline.
(06:35):
We get to create the material.
It's not till we're not toldwhat we're doing.
And so I looked at your summaryand I was like, okay, there's
some crosses here, but I had myheart set on this.
I already spent all this timecreating the summary.
So I reached out to Amanda andI said is this going to be a
problem?
You know we're both writingabout the same thing and she
(06:56):
smart Amanda pulls up yours andmine, throws them into chat GPT
and has it do an analysis onoverlap uh, things that are
covered one and not the otherand she sent me a summary and
she goes you're, you're fine,you've got a couple areas that
are overlapping, but the otherones you're building on stuff.
(07:16):
She's saying she's building onstuff.
You're saying so it's going tobe a good overall and I'm like
okay, good I love that.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (07:23):
That's funny because I also talk about
emotional intelligence just alittle bit, and I knew that
Jeremiah has his.
He talks quite a bit aboutemotional intelligence and so in
my course I do a quick lessonon it and I mentioned you're
going to hear about this inanother course in more, more in
depth, but I got to talk aboutit a little bit because it does
apply to communication.
So there's overlap, which isgood.
Walt Sparling (07:44):
I think it's interesting because there's 25
instructors and I know probablya little over half.
In fact, I just did a post it'sscheduled to go out on my
newsletter, scheduled to go outSaturday, okay and I did a
little coverage on the peerprogram.
In of the 25 instructors, Ithink I've interviewed 16 of
(08:05):
them.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (08:06):
That's awesome.
Walt Sparling (08:07):
I've met them.
But the thing communication,emotional intelligence, soft
skills, which I talk about in mycourse, good PMs are good at
all those things.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (08:18):
You have to have them.
You have to have them and somany times I have.
You know I work with people.
I would get an email that'sjust like this long paragraph
full of just so much andsomewhere in there they have two
or three things that they needin response.
But it's such a convoluted messthat it gets lost and I've seen
that happen and I've seen thepeople that are responding not
(08:40):
respond and not give them theinformation and I'm like because
it's a mess and so like it's.
It's a skill to take a bunch ofwords and information,
synthesize it into bullet pointsand clear asks, even like the
presentation in the email, likemaking it very clear this is
what I need by when, right andso.
So that's just a superimportant skill, whether you're
a project manager or sending anemail to you know.
Walt Sparling (09:01):
Oh yeah, general communication.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (09:02):
Who knows, and that's what I love
about communication is.
It's not.
Yes, it's very important forproject managers, but the course
is really just for anyone whoworks and has to communicate
with other humans, because somany of the pieces are just good
practice.
Walt Sparling (09:18):
So I think the benefit of this program is
there's going to be a lot ofcourses that do have some
overlap, but to me it's going tobe basically reinforcement.
So if one instructor says itand then you know they take
three classes later another oneis talking about a similar topic
and they're covering the samething, it's like wow, this is
(09:39):
important.
I mean, all these people thathave been doing this stuff and
do this stuff every day arestating how important it is.
So that's reinforcement for,like the newer PMs.
For sure you know the existingPMs are going to go.
Yeah, I know that, I know thatand I know how important it is,
but they're going to pick upsome tidbits from other PMs that
have been doing this a while.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (09:57):
Yeah.
I think it's pretty good, yeah,and and, like you said, we're
going to both you and I aredifferent people.
We're going to approach thesame topic in different ways too
and like there's things thatprobably you talk about that I
don't, and vice versa.
Another thing I talked aboutthat I talk about weirdly a lot
but is not normally connected toproject management, which is
the bystander effect.
(10:17):
I maybe have mentioned it herebefore, but for me it's a huge
part of this idea that, like youknow, you send an email and
there's 27 people copied on itand it's either to hate everyone
or it's not addressed to anyonespecific, or there's so many
people on copy that most peoplejust ignore those emails.
Right, and it's the bystandereffect that comes from, like a
car crash, when everyone assumeseveryone else is going to call
(10:40):
911.
So no one does it and everyoneassumes, well, no one's 911.
So no one does it and everyoneassumes, well, no one's
responding.
So why should I right?
It's the same idea.
And so, like making sure evenin your emails that you're
really clear again about who areyou addressing.
Like, even if you're copying 20people for visibility, make
sure in the email it's like whoare you talking to, what are you
asking for?
You know, are you looking for aresponse?
(11:01):
And so I love using that andapplying it to communication and
I don't.
I don't know that I had seenthat a lot, but in my mind it
came up one time early on in my,in my math emails.
I'm like this is just like thebystander effect no one's
responding.
Walt Sparling (11:16):
Well then you'll like my course Cause I actually
addressed that in an emailetiquette section about how you
address who it's to what theexpected responses are if you're
a two or a CC, using theexclamation point very sparingly
, fyi a lot of FYI isn't helpfulbecause people ignore it.
(11:40):
then yeah, and something I'vegotten better at is when someone
says something, if it's not acritical thing, when I reply
thank you, cause I like to becordial and nice, I reply thank
you to the person that sent it.
You know, back in the day itwas reply all yeah, and now it's
like no, I just send like I did.
I did I think I said like fourthank yous today, one of them.
I copied all because there wasa miscommunication about
(12:02):
something and this email wassupposed to summarize this is
the final.
So when I did a reply, all Isaid thank you.
This resolves the issue Caseclosed.
Everybody knew what was going on.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (12:15):
Yes, totally Love it.
Walt Sparling (12:18):
Now, pure is obviously big and we're going to
put a link in there for thePure program.
For you, and I know you've beenposting on LinkedIn, but it's
not the only thing you'reinvolved in.
What other kind of stuff areyou doing?
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (12:31):
Yeah.
So I guess I started a year,year and a half ago coaching.
So that's really the firstthing I really started doing
when I was on LinkedIn is Icreated a TopMate account and
started really offeringone-on-one sessions for people
that needed like resume reviews.
Or, honestly, a lot of peoplereach out to me like either
transitioning teachers are likehey, I just want to pivot into
(12:53):
project management, what do Ineed to think about?
Do I qualify for the PMP?
Do I need the PMP?
So I offer a lot of thoseconversations and help with the
interview prep too.
In fact, just this week I did aan interview prep with someone
who found me through a YouTubechannel and like wasn't even
connected with me on LinkedInand so, you know, I just kind of
offered that and that sort offell in my lap just because of
(13:13):
LinkedIn and I kept gettingrequests.
So I thought I would try it and, as you know, I wrote the PMP
ebook that was like theapplication process and so that
kind of triggered that.
So I have my PMP ebook thathelps people apply and I often
meet with people to review theapplication before they submit
it and they use a template thatI created.
I've got my top mate coaching,and then a year and a half ago I
(13:35):
partnered with bettercareerorgto create an entire program that
really is helping people pivotinto project management, and so
it's called the Project ManagerAccelerator, and so I'm the only
instructor.
I co-created this five-moduleprogram.
It has like 23 videos and itwalks through everything from
(13:58):
like what is project managementto the methodologies, to really
practical ways to update yourresume and it.
It offers job search strategiesand all of those things as well
.
But also what is unique aboutthis versus some of the other
programs where you can just goget your 35 education hours,
which you can get with the PMAis I offer bi-weekly coaching
(14:20):
sessions.
So every other week I have alive session with anyone in the
program that wants to show upand ask questions, and we have
different topics we talk about.
And then they also get asession with me, one-on-one to
talk about resumes or whatever,and so they get that live
interaction as well, not justlike take a course and never
talk to that person again andthat's through the life of them,
like as long as they need it,as long as they, until they get
(14:41):
a job or whatever.
So so that part's really reallyexciting.
And a year ago it came out andit was, you know, a bit more
expensive as we were trying tofigure out what worked.
And so just about two weeks agowe revamped that while we've
been working on it for months,but we just revamped the whole
thing and I'm taking a bit moreownership in the whole program
and just kind of relaunched itat a much, much, much lower
(15:09):
price.
And what I love about that andthis peer credential is how well
they could go together.
In fact, this week I just wrotea post.
If I were to start over todayand be like I want to leave the
classroom and pivot into projectmanagement, what would I do?
I would start with the projectmanager accelerator because it's
like, what is projectmanagement?
It's like those basic thingsabout the methodologies and what
are the five phases of aproject, right, pretty basic
level.
But also that job seekersupport and like how do I update
(15:32):
my language on my resume tospeak kind of like project
management, all those things,right, the coaching.
And then I would go do my PMP,because I would use my
experience to get my PMP.
Then from there I would do thepeer credential, because now I
have my PMP and I can get the 60credit hours right to use the
(15:53):
peer to get the 60 PDUs.
Thank you, the 60 PDUs.
So that's kind of the coursethat I would go in today, and
they all feed into each otherreally nicely, not only that.
Walt Sparling (16:03):
I think the way you described it was great, as
you have the starting out, youhave the project management kind
of theory from the PMI frameand then you have real project
managers that are doing it.
So now you can apply from thePMP knowledge.
You know I talk about risks andthey talk about schedules and
(16:25):
budgets.
Well, now you talk, you know,you take the courses on the cure
side and they're like theyactually get into that stuff.
This is how I do it on a dailybasis.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (16:33):
Exactly and that's why they feed in to
each other.
And, honestly, if it, if therewas someone who, you know, took
the PMA program and kind of gotthe basics and understood what
project management is and readyto find a PM job book, but
either didn't have theexperience for the PMP or didn't
quite feel like they were readyfor that, they really could go
straight to the peer right andthe peer credential.
(16:55):
And I actually had someonereach out to me recently, this
week with the launch of peer,and ask is this only for PMPs?
And then I'm like no, no, no,no, no, you do not have to
already have your PMP, there'sno prerequisite.
It doesn't even have to besomeone who has the official
project manager title.
Anyone even have to be someonewho has the official you know
(17:17):
project manager title.
Anyone who's looking for youknow a way to hone in on their
skills and you can lead projectswithout being a quote PM right,
like leaders all all over theboard can can take this course
and can find a lot of value in alot of the different things.
Like you know, we're justtalking about how to like write
good emails.
Walt Sparling (17:27):
And I think to your point there if someone
starts out, they don't have theexperience to go for the PMP.
I mean right now PMP, everybodywants their PMP.
Right now I want my peer PM.
But the thing is, one of thequalifications is not only the
time and service but theclassroom hours, education.
(17:49):
So if you take 60 hours ofclassroom education for through
the pure program there's your 35hours and it doesn't matter I
remember, joe and I've talkedabout this in the past it
doesn't matter how long ago youtook it.
If it's project managementeducation, then you can use it
and you can use the rest of yourPDUs for starting out with your
(18:14):
first go around on renewal.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (18:17):
Yeah, that's great, yeah.
And the other thing about themy, the other program, the
project manager accelerator isyou can, anyone who takes that
course gets the 35 hours for thePMP also, it's, it's 35 hours,
so it's pretty great for that.
Again, for the basic level orpeople who are looking for that
extra support, it's a great way.
But to your point, if not,that's what's so great about
(18:38):
Pure is, you know, anyone canjust decide to go take it.
And there's a lot of peoplethat I'm like yeah, go take this
, it's not, you don't have to bea PM to do it and they're such
great.
The courses are amazing.
Like reading through the titles, so diverse it's, it's exciting
, it's.
I, yeah, I've, I've alreadystarted taking a few of the
courses.
I'm just like it's, I'm blownaway by the caliber of the
(19:00):
courses and the content and, ofcourse, the people.
Um, I've actually had someonereach out to me this week asking
, um, hey, how did you become aninstructor and can I get on
that list?
They're like there's so manyquality people I know that are
instructors and I want to bepart of that group.
I'm like, actually there is aprocess In fact, people that are
interested can there's an emailthat you can email the Peer
(19:22):
Alliance team and apply.
There's an application processnow going forward, so, which I
found out.
Walt Sparling (19:28):
So yeah, Lots of stuff going on.
New job about to start heresoon.
Once this episode posts, youwill have started.
Intro/Outro (19:37):
So yes, yes, yes I'm sure we'll catch up with you
in the future.
Walt Sparling (19:40):
Follow your posts and see how that is going.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (19:43):
Sounds good.
Walt Sparling (19:44):
All right, and I'll have links in the show
notes, in fact, if you don'tmind.
I mean, I can get it from Joe,but if you can send me that
email for applying, I'll throwthat in the show notes as well.
Yeah, I got that?
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (19:54):
Yeah, no, I got that because I had a
couple of people ask me and so Iasked Amanda she gave it to me,
said tell people to send anemail to this address and you
can get information on how toapply to be an instructor.
So great.
Walt Sparling (20:08):
Yeah, because I'm pretty sure they have at least
potentially an agile one comingup.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (20:13):
Well, and that's what I told this
person who asked us I knowthere's stuff in the future
happening, so they are alwayslooking for more instructors, it
sounds like.
So yeah, I'll send you thatemail as well.
Walt Sparling (20:23):
Awesome, all right, well, I appreciate you
coming on once again and foreveryone else, we'll see you in
the next episode of PM Mastery.
Intro/Outro (20:31):
Thanks for listening to the PM Mastery
podcast at wwwpm-masterycom.
Be sure to subscribe in yourpodcast player.
Until next time, keep workingon your craft.
Welcome to the PM Mastery Podcast.
This podcast is all abouthelping you master your project
management skills by sharingtips, tricks, tools and training
to get you to the next level,while sharing the stories of
other project managers on theirjourney in project management.
And now here's your host, waltSparling.
Walt Sparling (00:36):
All right, welcome everybody to the current
edition of PM Mastery.
And today I have back onceagain Melissa Chapman.
Welcome back, melissa.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (00:44):
Thanks, walt, it's great to be here.
Walt Sparling (00:47):
Good to always have conversations with you.
So you were on back in Decemberas part of the top five of
episodes of all time, which wasexciting, and the folks that
were on there they're still inthe top five, so it's continuing
on.
So we've kind of caught up withmost of what's going on.
(01:08):
But I know you made a kind of ateaser announcement today and
on a new job you're going to berolling into and since this
won't post until after youactually start the job, we can't
ask you how it's going, but wecan ask you what it is and what
you're excited about.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (01:32):
Yeah, yeah.
So today was my last day at mymy current job, and it's been
such a great place for me topivot from teaching into project
management.
You know, as you know, I wasthe first project manager at the
company for quite a while.
They just started a PMO a fewmonths ago, but up until then I
was the only PM and so I wascreating all kinds of processes
and all those things, and sothis new job is a brand new
industry.
I'm pivoting to a company calledChaucer Foods and they it's the
(01:54):
food and beverage industry.
I'll be a project and portfoliomanager, so I'll I'll be
managing a portfolio of projectsand helping helping to
determine the types of projectsthat we take on.
I'll be specifically in the B2Bpart of the business and they
do dry fruit and vegetablefreeze, dried fruit and
vegetables.
(02:14):
So, for example, like the fruitthat is in, like Kellogg cereal
, the dried fruit.
Or like the fruit in like aStarbucks drink right, that
dried fruit.
They produce that fruit andthey're connected all over the
world.
They're in the UK and Franceand China and LA, so very
excited about it.
It's a hybrid role for me andI'll get to do some traveling
(02:35):
and already in a couple of weekswe'll get to travel down to
Southern California for like abig expo and very excited about
the role in my getting toutilize all the skills that I
have used in the past with allmy other positions and get to
like help create the processesagain.
It's a new role at the companyso I get to kind of determine
some of those things again, sovery, very excited about it.
Walt Sparling (02:56):
You keep rolling into them first roles.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (02:59):
I like those.
Walt Sparling (03:00):
Those two are very exciting.
You're setting the precedencefor everyone else that follows.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (03:04):
I like it.
Yep, I like it, yep, I like it.
Set the bar high.
Walt Sparling (03:07):
Good deal.
So on top of that, I knowyou've got a lot of other things
going on.
You do some training courses,you do some coaching and we're
going to put links to all ofthat in our show notes.
You and I were a part of alarge group of 25 different
(03:31):
instructors that did somecourses for a new project
management certification calledthe Pure Project Manager, and
it's by Pure Management Alliance, and we all know the guy who
started it all, joseph Phillipsgreat guy, been around a long
time, awesome instructor and, uh, it was released on Monday, the
27th.
So, as a instructor in there,can you tell us a little bit
(03:55):
about, maybe, either how you gotinto it or what your course is
about and let's share it witheveryone?
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (04:02):
Yeah, it's funny.
I got an email in July fromAmanda Chambers, who is, you
know, joe's assistant, and Ithought it was spam email,
because I get a lot of theseemails that are like, hey, we
want you to be an instructor, wewant you to create this content
, or I get those kind of quiteoften, but most of the time it's
(04:22):
kind of spammy or something I'mnot interested in.
So I frankly thought it was oneof those and I ignored it.
And then she reached out to meon LinkedIn and said, hey, did
you get my email?
That wasn't spam, this is real.
And so once I realized you knowwho she was and who she worked
for, I was so shocked I said,wait, joe Phillips knows who I
am.
I had no idea she goes.
Of course he does, he's beenfollowing you, he's excited to
have you part of this project,and so you know it was an easy
(04:45):
yes, absolutely yes.
And so then, from there, youknow, as you know, we got to
kind of think about the topicthat we wanted to teach on, and
for me, communication withinproject management and just in
life is such an important topicthat that was a no-brainer.
It's something that I talk abouta lot and feel like is an
important thing for everyone tohone their skills.
(05:06):
So, yeah, so the title of mycourse is Knowing your Audience,
tailoring your Message forOutcome-Based Communication, and
the idea is that you know, weall talk all day and send
messages all day, but how do youmake sure that the person on
the other end is receiving it ina way that makes sense to them
and is what they really need tobe able to either understand
your message, interpret yourmessage, do what you need them
(05:29):
to do with your message, and sothat's a lot of what I talk
about is just how to understandwho they are.
So, you know, doing astakeholder analysis and
figuring out which stakeholdersneed which level of
communication, what's the bestmode of communication.
Sometimes a text message isreally great.
Sometimes that's super nothelpful and not a great way to
communicate something right, andso all of those pieces of
(05:50):
communication and how to takegood meeting notes and what a
good agenda looks like, and howto send a recap that includes,
like, the owner and the task andwho's you know who's
responsible when, and all thosethings.
So just a lot of things that Ithink are really important and
are skills that can be learnedand fine-tuned, and project
leaders meeting leaders couldall use some of those
(06:12):
communication skills.
Walt Sparling (06:15):
So what I think is interesting is and you and I
chatted about this in the earlypart of the program is I'm big
on communication and I'veactually written a chapter in
John Connolly's book about itand I write about it in in blogs
and stuff.
My I wanted to do mine oncommunication and I saw your
outline and we get to create ourown course outline.
(06:35):
We get to create the material.
It's not till we're not toldwhat we're doing.
And so I looked at your summaryand I was like, okay, there's
some crosses here, but I had myheart set on this.
I already spent all this timecreating the summary.
So I reached out to Amanda andI said is this going to be a
problem?
You know we're both writingabout the same thing and she
(06:56):
smart Amanda pulls up yours andmine, throws them into chat GPT
and has it do an analysis onoverlap uh, things that are
covered one and not the otherand she sent me a summary and
she goes you're, you're fine,you've got a couple areas that
are overlapping, but the otherones you're building on stuff.
(07:16):
She's saying she's building onstuff.
You're saying so it's going tobe a good overall and I'm like
okay, good I love that.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (07:23):
That's funny because I also talk about
emotional intelligence just alittle bit, and I knew that
Jeremiah has his.
He talks quite a bit aboutemotional intelligence and so in
my course I do a quick lessonon it and I mentioned you're
going to hear about this inanother course in more, more in
depth, but I got to talk aboutit a little bit because it does
apply to communication.
So there's overlap, which isgood.
Walt Sparling (07:44):
I think it's interesting because there's 25
instructors and I know probablya little over half.
In fact, I just did a post it'sscheduled to go out on my
newsletter, scheduled to go outSaturday, okay and I did a
little coverage on the peerprogram.
In of the 25 instructors, Ithink I've interviewed 16 of
(08:05):
them.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (08:06):
That's awesome.
Walt Sparling (08:07):
I've met them.
But the thing communication,emotional intelligence, soft
skills, which I talk about in mycourse, good PMs are good at
all those things.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (08:18):
You have to have them.
You have to have them and somany times I have.
You know I work with people.
I would get an email that'sjust like this long paragraph
full of just so much andsomewhere in there they have two
or three things that they needin response.
But it's such a convoluted messthat it gets lost and I've seen
that happen and I've seen thepeople that are responding not
(08:40):
respond and not give them theinformation and I'm like because
it's a mess and so like it's.
It's a skill to take a bunch ofwords and information,
synthesize it into bullet pointsand clear asks, even like the
presentation in the email, likemaking it very clear this is
what I need by when, right andso.
So that's just a superimportant skill, whether you're
a project manager or sending anemail to you know.
Walt Sparling (09:01):
Oh yeah, general communication.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (09:02):
Who knows, and that's what I love
about communication is.
It's not.
Yes, it's very important forproject managers, but the course
is really just for anyone whoworks and has to communicate
with other humans, because somany of the pieces are just good
practice.
Walt Sparling (09:18):
So I think the benefit of this program is
there's going to be a lot ofcourses that do have some
overlap, but to me it's going tobe basically reinforcement.
So if one instructor says itand then you know they take
three classes later another oneis talking about a similar topic
and they're covering the samething, it's like wow, this is
(09:39):
important.
I mean, all these people thathave been doing this stuff and
do this stuff every day arestating how important it is.
So that's reinforcement for,like the newer PMs.
For sure you know the existingPMs are going to go.
Yeah, I know that, I know thatand I know how important it is,
but they're going to pick upsome tidbits from other PMs that
have been doing this a while.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (09:57):
Yeah.
I think it's pretty good, yeah,and and, like you said, we're
going to both you and I aredifferent people.
We're going to approach thesame topic in different ways too
and like there's things thatprobably you talk about that I
don't, and vice versa.
Another thing I talked aboutthat I talk about weirdly a lot
but is not normally connected toproject management, which is
the bystander effect.
(10:17):
I maybe have mentioned it herebefore, but for me it's a huge
part of this idea that, like youknow, you send an email and
there's 27 people copied on itand it's either to hate everyone
or it's not addressed to anyonespecific, or there's so many
people on copy that most peoplejust ignore those emails.
Right, and it's the bystandereffect that comes from, like a
car crash, when everyone assumeseveryone else is going to call
(10:40):
911.
So no one does it and everyoneassumes, well, no one's 911.
So no one does it and everyoneassumes, well, no one's
responding.
So why should I right?
It's the same idea.
And so, like making sure evenin your emails that you're
really clear again about who areyou addressing.
Like, even if you're copying 20people for visibility, make
sure in the email it's like whoare you talking to, what are you
asking for?
You know, are you looking for aresponse?
(11:01):
And so I love using that andapplying it to communication and
I don't.
I don't know that I had seenthat a lot, but in my mind it
came up one time early on in my,in my math emails.
I'm like this is just like thebystander effect no one's
responding.
Walt Sparling (11:16):
Well then you'll like my course Cause I actually
addressed that in an emailetiquette section about how you
address who it's to what theexpected responses are if you're
a two or a CC, using theexclamation point very sparingly
, fyi a lot of FYI isn't helpfulbecause people ignore it.
(11:40):
then yeah, and something I'vegotten better at is when someone
says something, if it's not acritical thing, when I reply
thank you, cause I like to becordial and nice, I reply thank
you to the person that sent it.
You know, back in the day itwas reply all yeah, and now it's
like no, I just send like I did.
I did I think I said like fourthank yous today, one of them.
I copied all because there wasa miscommunication about
(12:02):
something and this email wassupposed to summarize this is
the final.
So when I did a reply, all Isaid thank you.
This resolves the issue Caseclosed.
Everybody knew what was going on.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (12:15):
Yes, totally Love it.
Walt Sparling (12:18):
Now, pure is obviously big and we're going to
put a link in there for thePure program.
For you, and I know you've beenposting on LinkedIn, but it's
not the only thing you'reinvolved in.
What other kind of stuff areyou doing?
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (12:31):
Yeah.
So I guess I started a year,year and a half ago coaching.
So that's really the firstthing I really started doing
when I was on LinkedIn is Icreated a TopMate account and
started really offeringone-on-one sessions for people
that needed like resume reviews.
Or, honestly, a lot of peoplereach out to me like either
transitioning teachers are likehey, I just want to pivot into
(12:53):
project management, what do Ineed to think about?
Do I qualify for the PMP?
Do I need the PMP?
So I offer a lot of thoseconversations and help with the
interview prep too.
In fact, just this week I did aan interview prep with someone
who found me through a YouTubechannel and like wasn't even
connected with me on LinkedInand so, you know, I just kind of
offered that and that sort offell in my lap just because of
(13:13):
LinkedIn and I kept gettingrequests.
So I thought I would try it and, as you know, I wrote the PMP
ebook that was like theapplication process and so that
kind of triggered that.
So I have my PMP ebook thathelps people apply and I often
meet with people to review theapplication before they submit
it and they use a template thatI created.
I've got my top mate coaching,and then a year and a half ago I
(13:35):
partnered with bettercareerorgto create an entire program that
really is helping people pivotinto project management, and so
it's called the Project ManagerAccelerator, and so I'm the only
instructor.
I co-created this five-moduleprogram.
It has like 23 videos and itwalks through everything from
(13:58):
like what is project managementto the methodologies, to really
practical ways to update yourresume and it.
It offers job search strategiesand all of those things as well
.
But also what is unique aboutthis versus some of the other
programs where you can just goget your 35 education hours,
which you can get with the PMAis I offer bi-weekly coaching
(14:20):
sessions.
So every other week I have alive session with anyone in the
program that wants to show upand ask questions, and we have
different topics we talk about.
And then they also get asession with me, one-on-one to
talk about resumes or whatever,and so they get that live
interaction as well, not justlike take a course and never
talk to that person again andthat's through the life of them,
like as long as they need it,as long as they, until they get
(14:41):
a job or whatever.
So so that part's really reallyexciting.
And a year ago it came out andit was, you know, a bit more
expensive as we were trying tofigure out what worked.
And so just about two weeks agowe revamped that while we've
been working on it for months,but we just revamped the whole
thing and I'm taking a bit moreownership in the whole program
and just kind of relaunched itat a much, much, much lower
(15:09):
price.
And what I love about that andthis peer credential is how well
they could go together.
In fact, this week I just wrotea post.
If I were to start over todayand be like I want to leave the
classroom and pivot into projectmanagement, what would I do?
I would start with the projectmanager accelerator because it's
like, what is projectmanagement?
It's like those basic thingsabout the methodologies and what
are the five phases of aproject, right, pretty basic
level.
But also that job seekersupport and like how do I update
(15:32):
my language on my resume tospeak kind of like project
management, all those things,right, the coaching.
And then I would go do my PMP,because I would use my
experience to get my PMP.
Then from there I would do thepeer credential, because now I
have my PMP and I can get the 60credit hours right to use the
(15:53):
peer to get the 60 PDUs.
Thank you, the 60 PDUs.
So that's kind of the coursethat I would go in today, and
they all feed into each otherreally nicely, not only that.
Walt Sparling (16:03):
I think the way you described it was great, as
you have the starting out, youhave the project management kind
of theory from the PMI frameand then you have real project
managers that are doing it.
So now you can apply from thePMP knowledge.
You know I talk about risks andthey talk about schedules and
(16:25):
budgets.
Well, now you talk, you know,you take the courses on the cure
side and they're like theyactually get into that stuff.
This is how I do it on a dailybasis.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (16:33):
Exactly and that's why they feed in to
each other.
And, honestly, if it, if therewas someone who, you know, took
the PMA program and kind of gotthe basics and understood what
project management is and readyto find a PM job book, but
either didn't have theexperience for the PMP or didn't
quite feel like they were readyfor that, they really could go
straight to the peer right andthe peer credential.
(16:55):
And I actually had someonereach out to me recently, this
week with the launch of peer,and ask is this only for PMPs?
And then I'm like no, no, no,no, no, you do not have to
already have your PMP, there'sno prerequisite.
It doesn't even have to besomeone who has the official
project manager title.
Anyone even have to be someonewho has the official you know
(17:17):
project manager title.
Anyone who's looking for youknow a way to hone in on their
skills and you can lead projectswithout being a quote PM right,
like leaders all all over theboard can can take this course
and can find a lot of value in alot of the different things.
Like you know, we're justtalking about how to like write
good emails.
Walt Sparling (17:27):
And I think to your point there if someone
starts out, they don't have theexperience to go for the PMP.
I mean right now PMP, everybodywants their PMP.
Right now I want my peer PM.
But the thing is, one of thequalifications is not only the
time and service but theclassroom hours, education.
(17:49):
So if you take 60 hours ofclassroom education for through
the pure program there's your 35hours and it doesn't matter I
remember, joe and I've talkedabout this in the past it
doesn't matter how long ago youtook it.
If it's project managementeducation, then you can use it
and you can use the rest of yourPDUs for starting out with your
(18:14):
first go around on renewal.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (18:17):
Yeah, that's great, yeah.
And the other thing about themy, the other program, the
project manager accelerator isyou can, anyone who takes that
course gets the 35 hours for thePMP also, it's, it's 35 hours,
so it's pretty great for that.
Again, for the basic level orpeople who are looking for that
extra support, it's a great way.
But to your point, if not,that's what's so great about
(18:38):
Pure is, you know, anyone canjust decide to go take it.
And there's a lot of peoplethat I'm like yeah, go take this
, it's not, you don't have to bea PM to do it and they're such
great.
The courses are amazing.
Like reading through the titles, so diverse it's, it's exciting
, it's.
I, yeah, I've, I've alreadystarted taking a few of the
courses.
I'm just like it's, I'm blownaway by the caliber of the
(19:00):
courses and the content and, ofcourse, the people.
Um, I've actually had someonereach out to me this week asking
, um, hey, how did you become aninstructor and can I get on
that list?
They're like there's so manyquality people I know that are
instructors and I want to bepart of that group.
I'm like, actually there is aprocess In fact, people that are
interested can there's an emailthat you can email the Peer
(19:22):
Alliance team and apply.
There's an application processnow going forward, so, which I
found out.
Walt Sparling (19:28):
So yeah, Lots of stuff going on.
New job about to start heresoon.
Once this episode posts, youwill have started.
Intro/Outro (19:37):
So yes, yes, yes I'm sure we'll catch up with you
in the future.
Walt Sparling (19:40):
Follow your posts and see how that is going.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (19:43):
Sounds good.
Walt Sparling (19:44):
All right, and I'll have links in the show
notes, in fact, if you don'tmind.
I mean, I can get it from Joe,but if you can send me that
email for applying, I'll throwthat in the show notes as well.
Yeah, I got that?
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (19:54):
Yeah, no, I got that because I had a
couple of people ask me and so Iasked Amanda she gave it to me,
said tell people to send anemail to this address and you
can get information on how toapply to be an instructor.
So great.
Walt Sparling (20:08):
Yeah, because I'm pretty sure they have at least
potentially an agile one comingup.
Melissa (Chapman) Magee (20:13):
Well, and that's what I told this
person who asked us I knowthere's stuff in the future
happening, so they are alwayslooking for more instructors, it
sounds like.
So yeah, I'll send you thatemail as well.
Walt Sparling (20:23):
Awesome, all right, well, I appreciate you
coming on once again and foreveryone else, we'll see you in
the next episode of PM Mastery.
Intro/Outro (20:31):
Thanks for listening to the PM Mastery
podcast at wwwpm-masterycom.
Be sure to subscribe in yourpodcast player.
Until next time, keep workingon your craft.
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