November 4, 2024 • 42 mins
In This Episode:
This is a special milestone issue. 2024 has been a crazy year for many with various life and career transitions. I wanted to do a special milestone issue with the top five most downloaded podcast episodes as of October 2024. I was able to get back four out of the five top guests to do a catch up episode. Amanda Sherman co-hosted this episode with me. Links to the original episodes and other materials for each interviewee are provided below.
Links:
- Melissa Chapman:
- Kayla McGuire:
- Episode 37
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaylamcguire/
- Website: https://www.kaylamcguire.com/
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@kaylamcguire
- Teresa O'Hanlon:
- Joseph Phillips:
- Episode 18
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/instructor/
- Website: https://www.instructing.com/
- Nacole Caputo:
PM-Mastery Links:
- For a full podcast episode list, visit here: PM-Mastery Podcast Episodes.
- For a full list of blog posts, go here: PM-Mastery Blog Posts
- Become a PURE PM: https://pm-mastery.com/pure
- Check out Instructing.com for all your PM course needs: https://www.instructing.com/?ref=bd5e5c
- Get your free PDU Tracker here: https://pm-mastery.com/resource_links/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro/Outro (00:12):
Welcome to the PM Mastery Podcast.
This podcast is all abouthelping you master your project
management skills by sharingtips, tricks, tools and training
to get you to the next level,while sharing the stories of
other project managers on theirjourney in project management.
And now here's your host, waltSparling.
Walt Sparling (00:37):
Welcome everybody to the current edition of PM
Mastery.
And today I have a panel ofguests.
And today I have a panel ofguests all former interviewees
on the podcast.
In fact they are the top fivemost popular episodes on the
podcast.
Since the beginning of thepodcast the interviews happened
(00:57):
anywhere from, I'd say, a yearand a half to over two years ago
a year and a half to over twoyears ago and very consistent
downloads and ahead of quite abit of the other episodes.
So you guys were like superpopular.
So we do have a couple thatcould not make it this evening.
One is still trying on the roadand one had a last minute work
(01:21):
conflict.
So I'll talk a little bit aboutthem while they're not here and
then hopefully she'll forgiveme.
So with us today we have, in noparticular order, kayla McGuire
, melissa Chapman, josephPhillips and missing we have
(01:42):
Teresa O'Hanlon and NicoleCaputo, and then I have my
occasional lovely Amanda Sherman, who co-hosts some episodes
with me.
Welcome all of you.
Mellissa Chapman (01:52):
Hello, glad to be here.
Walt Sparling (01:55):
So what we're going to do is just this is
great.
You guys were the most popular,so you've got some magic, and I
thought we'd just celebratethat and talk a little bit about
what's happened since the lasttime you were on the podcast.
So I know each of you just Ifollow you all on LinkedIn and I
(02:16):
know that you've madetransitions since you were last
on, so I thought we'd talk alittle bit about that and see
where it takes us that and seewhere it takes us.
So I'm going to start with Kayla.
Yay, okay, I'm so excited, sotell us a little bit about from
when you were last on thepodcast, which, according to my
(02:39):
notes, was in 2023 2023.
Kayla McGuire (02:45):
You are correct, june of 2023 uh-huh and I I
think that was actually thefirst podcast I was ever on and
now you're famous.
Walt Sparling (02:55):
see, I don't just coming on here can make a huge
(03:16):
difference.
It jump-started my career.
Everything's changed.
Yes, and I think you had fourto go, and I just looked at your
subscription list yesterday andyou're almost 4,000.
Kayla McGuire (03:33):
So I am.
Thank you and I remember that.
I remember that conversationwith you and I was so excited to
hit a thousand.
I thought that's just going tobe it and yeah, now I'm at.
I think 3683 is the number Isee.
Walt Sparling (03:48):
And that's pretty good Cause I looked at it
yesterday and it was 3670.
So you bumped a lot just in thelast day.
Amanda Sherman (03:56):
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (03:57):
Now, when you first came on, you were doing uh
, pm consulting.
You were also you were doing acourse on four individuals that
were interested in getting intoconsulting and you had started a
blog in the beginning and thenyou switched to the YouTube
channel.
You're very active on LinkedInand you have a huge following on
(04:21):
LinkedIn as well.
Linkedin, and you have a hugefollowing on LinkedIn as well.
A bootcamp that's what you weredoing.
A bootcamp for PMs.
Mellissa Chapman (04:28):
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (04:30):
So is that?
Are you still doing all that?
You're doing anything else?
Kayla McGuire (04:42):
Well, life evolves, it changes, so I am
still doing a lot of that, butsort of in different capacities.
So when we talked in 2023, Iwas doing very specific project
management consulting, projectmanagement work, and for the
past year and a half, I've beendoing more fractional operations
strategic consulting forbusiness owners, so a little bit
more holistic type of workthere, rather than just focusing
(05:04):
on the project management,although I still love project
management and I seem to come ateverything with a project
management framework which I'msure so many of my fellow
project managers can relate to.
But, yeah, I've been doing thisfractional operations strategic
consulting.
It's been great.
I've learned a lot still onLinkedIn, like you mentioned,
(05:27):
and yeah, I've shifted myLinkedIn strategy a little bit
too to talk more about I don'tknow just the nuances of working
in life, rather than beingsolely focused on project
management.
After a couple years, I gotalmost tired of talking about
project management all the time.
So, yeah, I've been leaninginto that with my LinkedIn.
(05:50):
Youtube has been happening,been doing a lot of interviews
with some really great folks onYouTube, because I got tired of
doing these monologue videoswhere it's just me talking to
the camera, so I startedinviting other experts and
industry leaders onto my channel.
So that's what's happening onYouTube, and I don't do the
(06:12):
bootcamp anymore.
I spun that off into a coursewhich is available on demand.
It has all the same informationthat I use with my clients and
that I've learned through my ownexperience and have helped
others with in boot camps andone-on-one coaching.
So, yeah, oh, and I was able toparticipate in a book project
(06:34):
called Executing Excellence with10 other project managers.
That was a fun project thatcame my way.
I guess that was in 2023.
So lots of really excitingstuff happening.
Walt Sparling (06:47):
Good deal and welcome Teresa.
Teresa just joined us.
I know she was stuck in traffic.
Are you still stuck in traffic,teresa?
Teresa O'Hanlon (06:56):
Oh, now Can you hear me.
Walt Sparling (06:58):
Oh, now we can hear you.
Teresa O'Hanlon (06:59):
Okay, it's been a while since I've been on Zoom
.
Yeah, I am home now.
We just got home.
It took about an hour to go,like five miles, so it was a
rough day on the road.
Walt Sparling (07:11):
I think it was a Florida issue, because Amanda
and I were both about an hour.
Teresa O'Hanlon (07:16):
Yeah, traffic's been bad today.
Walt Sparling (07:19):
Welcome on.
Teresa O'Hanlon (07:21):
Thank you.
Walt Sparling (07:21):
So, kayla, exciting stuff.
Now let's see who are we goingto jump to next?
I guess right at right acrossfrom you is melissa, so we're
going to jump over to melissasounds good so, melissa, I
believe you followed kayla acouple months it was august,
yeah, august of last summer andyou have a very interesting path
(07:46):
in that you used to be ateacher and then you decided to
go into project management.
You saw some parallels.
You put together an applicationand you applied and they said
uh-uh.
And you said uh-huh and youwent back and redid your
application and they audited youagain, but I believe you were
(08:09):
then accepted.
Sure was.
And now you're doing that, orhave been doing that for quite a
while helping other people,especially transitioning
teachers, get into projectmanagement.
Mellissa Chapman (08:20):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, so we were.
We had our conversation inAugust and the timing of that I
was thinking back to that.
Shortly after that, I releasedan ebook on the PMP application
process and kind of shared thatwhole process that you just
explained how I was audited anddenied and then audited again
(08:41):
and then reapplied and all thosethings, and so, yeah, I created
a resource that I now helpother people think through the
experience that they have thatisn't official or I would call
traditional project managementexperience.
They maybe didn't have the jobtitle of project manager, but
have experience.
You could talk toadministrative assistants, you
talk to nurses, schoolcounselors, teachers all kinds
(09:03):
of people who have projectmanagement experience.
So, anyway, I wrote that e-bookand that came out not too long
after you and I spoke and Istarted coaching also.
So all of these things werethings that I didn't really seek
out.
I didn't make this list of, oh,I'm going to do this and then
this, but these opportunitieskept falling in my lap and so I
started coaching, because I keptgetting asked if I coached and
(09:25):
I thought I'll give it a try andthen started working with a lot
of transitioning teachers,either pivoting into project
management or just trying toleave the classroom and helping
them find clarity and updatetheir resume and how to
translate whatever experiencethey have in teaching or other
industries into projectmanagement or somewhere else.
So I've been doing a lot of thathave the opportunity to work
(09:48):
with Better Career and create aproject management learning
module where a whole programwhere people who are looking to
pivot into project managementhave never heard of project
management have a five modulecourse where they can learn
about how to do that, learnabout project management and
have job seeker resources.
I'm very excited about thatproject that I also stumbled
(10:13):
upon and other projects that arecoming in the future.
So very excited about just thelast year and all the
opportunities that have comefrom yeah, being a middle school
teacher at one point and nowI'm working with all kinds of
people, so this is prettyexciting.
Walt Sparling (10:28):
Yeah, You've.
You've also put together quitea list of followers on LinkedIn.
Mellissa Chapman (10:35):
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (10:35):
It's.
Mellissa Chapman (10:36):
It's also been one of those things I have a
mix of again, a lot oftransitioning teachers.
Every time I write Kayla and Iactually talked about this not
too long ago you know, when I goout, when I set out to like
write a post on LinkedIn andI've done all this research and
I have stats or this or thatthose posts do not do well.
When I just write one on a whimin two seconds and like throw it
(10:56):
on LinkedIn, those thingsthey'll go viral.
I have people like those getshared like tons of times, and
most of the time the ones thatdo really well in my network are
anything to do with changingcareers or transitioning
teachers.
And I think it's because I havea network of not only project
managers but also educators, anda lot of project managers have
(11:19):
either their own kids ineducation or know someone who
was a teacher, and so itresonates with a lot of people
who are concerned abouteducation in our country, and so
it's an interesting place toget to straddle that line and be
able to.
Some days I wake up, like Kaylasaid, some days I wake up and I
feel like I want to write aboutproject management, and then
other days I write aboutteaching and how to support
(11:41):
people who are looking for jobs.
So I just kind of write what Ifeel like, and I don't really
have a LinkedIn strategy.
It's just whatever I feel like.
Walt Sparling (11:49):
That's your strategy.
Mellissa Chapman (11:50):
That is my strategy.
Amanda Sherman (11:54):
I had a question for Melissa.
How is like when you transitionfellow teachers over to project
management, what's your, what'sthe feedback that you get from
them?
Like they're you know oncethey've been in it for maybe
about a year or so.
So it's always interesting tosee that or to hear about
(12:15):
people's experiences in general.
So what's kind of your feedbackthat you've gotten from your,
the folks that have transitioned?
Mellissa Chapman (12:22):
Yeah, you know you hear this a lot, but the
biggest thing is work-lifebalance.
Teachers are just overworkedand underpaid and I know that's
a cliche, but it's very true.
There's a real thing called theSunday night scary, and that's
not just, you know, isolated toteachers, but a lot of teachers
feel that and I felt that a lot.
And so just having thisexperience where I get excited
(12:43):
about my job on Monday morningand I'm not like waking, I'm not
like dreading Sunday because ofhaving to be on and feeling
guilty if I'm not grading papersand not constantly doing work,
and so that was the mostsignificant change and my kids
noticed it, my friends andfamily noticed it, and when I
work with transitioning teachers, the thing I hear the most
(13:05):
often is my family and myfriends and my kids notice that
I'm a different person, I'm ableto give more to my family
because I've left, and so,unfortunately, that's the
reality for a lot of teachers isthat it's just so draining that
when they leave it's asignificant, it's very
noticeable, yeah wow, that isinteresting.
(13:26):
My own daughter said to me, mom,you're like I was three weeks
out of out of the classroom.
Mom, you're so much lessstressed than you used to be.
I mean like right away shenoticed so that's.
Amanda Sherman (13:37):
That's really telling, because I really feel
like project management.
Um, it has its ups and downs,but it does seem like a like it
can be really stressful.
Mellissa Chapman (13:48):
Oh, it can be.
It's not to say, it's not, itspeaks volumes for our teachers.
Amanda Sherman (13:59):
Well, it speaks volumes because now I mean I
think everyone in the room canattest to some project
management stress moments, butthat really speaks volumes about
the pressures on our teachers.
Yeah, interesting.
Walt Sparling (14:10):
Yeah, good question so I'm going to let
amanda ask some, some morequestions, and she's on a roll
you're moving on the plot.
Amanda Sherman (14:22):
Well, I wanted to talk with teresa because
teresa, it's been a minute sincewe caught up and stuff.
But, um, so I, if I'm recallingright, I feel like you were
probably you were one of thefirst 10, I think, podcast
interviews that Walt, that Waltheld, you know, back in the day
(14:44):
and you're and um, I feel likeyour story is pretty inspiring.
Um, because theresa and I worktogether, so we um, I got to see
her just shoot up there becauseshe is most awesome in the the
(15:06):
topics that she spoke about.
Um, so it was a one note wasyour um, your tool of choice and
um and calendar blocking?
So I would ask like, have you?
I'd be curious is if you whatother tools you might use now or
(15:27):
that you might share with us.
Teresa O'Hanlon (15:31):
Yeah, absolutely yeah.
I would say.
My latest tool of choice isSmartsheet.
I don't know if anyone else onthe call is using Smartsheet.
It's.
It's a really interesting takeon Excel.
It's a little bit moreinteractive and I think it's
actually a project.
It can potentially be a projectmanagement tool and I think
it's actually a project.
It can potentially be a projectmanagement tool.
You can use it for that totrack schedules, but it can also
(15:54):
be used to like as an intakeform.
You can use it to interact withpeople that are outside of the
technology and they can use aform to submit data.
There's just a lot of differentways to use it and we found, I
would say, a handful of ways touse it with my team.
That's definitely helpedimprove efficiency and workflows
(16:15):
and automations and things likethat.
So that's the latest one.
I'm still in OneNote, though Iuse that heavily for playbooks
and just my own personalnote-taking.
Calendar blocking is key tostay on track, I know.
For me personally, I actuallyprobably got that more from Walt
than I got from my own toolkit,if you will.
(16:38):
But yeah, smartsheet isdefinitely the number one thing
for me right now.
Amanda Sherman (16:44):
Interesting.
You'd be so proud of me now andhow developed I have become
with OneNote.
I was, um, when she said I wasstruggling and I'm actually a
teacher, where I am right now alittle bit yeah, I use it a lot
now for sure, um, so it's been awhile since we caught up.
(17:07):
So you have grown in your joband just maybe if you could tell
us a little bit about it,because you started out in
project management as a projectcoordinator project coordinator,
which, I have to say, I knewshe wasn't going to be there
this long, that long because shewas awesome at keeping, at
(17:34):
corralling all the projectmanagers in our department and
keeping them on track andeverything like that.
She was the best.
So I know you moved up and outand where are you now?
Teresa O'Hanlon (17:44):
Yeah, yeah, so I still interact with the
project managers.
But I work in a departmentcalled the Center of Excellence
and we're kind of similar to aPMO, you know, project
management office.
But we support all of thedifferent facets of our account
team.
So we also have, like,facilities management.
We have a workplace strategywhich has occupancy planning and
(18:09):
lease admin.
There's, you know, the RPM teamrelocation, project management
and moves.
So we kind of go in to supportthe different teams in whatever
way they need in terms ofprocess improvement, playbook
creation, documentation, andthen I also help with
communications for the account.
(18:30):
But yeah, I went from projectcoordinator to like a strictly a
governance and processimprovement role and now I'm in
change management communicationsspecifically for internal team.
Walt Sparling (18:46):
Now I happen to remember where you did a short
stint as a project manager justto get a feel for it, and after
the end of that you're like,yeah, I'm good.
Teresa O'Hanlon (18:56):
It was fun.
I just think my where I reallylike shine and where my strength
is is working with process andfinding better solutions to like
what people are currently doingand it's not to say that
anything that they do today isbad.
I just like to find ways tomake people more efficient and
(19:17):
to help them.
You know, if they can takesomething they do and it takes
them an hour and we can cut itdown to 10 minutes, like I think
that's a huge win and it helpswith the work-life balancing
right, because if you can takesomething that's an hour and
chop it down to 10 minutes, likeI think that's a huge win and
it helps with the work-lifebalancing right, cause if you
can take something that's anhour and chop it down to 10
minutes, then maybe you canspend, you know, a little bit
more time with your kids or takea walk or you know whatever
(19:39):
else they want to do.
Walt Sparling (19:40):
Great stuff.
Amanda Sherman (19:42):
Sounds like.
Sounds like somebody else.
I know if I'm pointing the wallso I do.
Walt Sparling (19:51):
I do remember, I mean all the fun times working
with theresa.
Back in the day and I was justlooking your interview was
actually in 2021, so you were inthe early days and it was a.
It took off that.
Your episode took off rightaway.
It was just like for I thinkfor over a year and a half you
were number one.
It's just crazy how popular itwas Like we were just talking
(20:15):
about it before you got on, toois project coordinator roles.
It's, I think it's like anentryway into a lot of positions
which it was for you.
You came from.
You were a I'm trying toremember the title you had
before you came over.
You worked for a manufacturingcompany, didn't you?
Teresa O'Hanlon (20:32):
Yes, yeah, electronics manufacturer, and I
kind of bumped around intodifferent roles at that company.
They were pretty small, but Iwas in business development when
I left the company when I leftthe company.
Walt Sparling (20:46):
So it's good to see you.
Teresa O'Hanlon (20:48):
I happen to catch wind of all hands today
and I think I saw your namepopping up a lot in there.
Yeah, yeah, we have an employeeof the quarter and I happened
to win it, and along withanother colleague it wasn't just
me and it's all based off ofour internal recognition program
.
It's just how many recognitionsyou get from this program in
(21:11):
the quarter, so it wasdefinitely objective.
I promise it wasn't subjective.
I say that because I alsohelped to run this meeting.
So yeah, it was fun for sure.
Walt Sparling (21:28):
It was fun for sure.
Good deal Glad to have you onand to have you in the top five,
thank you.
Of course we don't want to skippast Joe here.
Joe is also in the top five.
He's like the thorn among allthe roses here.
I have to say I am amazed atall of you know all but Joe in
(21:52):
the top are women and verysuccessful and, I would say,
powerful women.
And I I'm amazed.
When I got into projectmanagement, it was I more on the
male side and I started workingwith some incredible female PMs
and then I met Amanda, who wasawesome and, I believe, still is
(22:15):
.
I don't work with her now, butwas a great PM and on our team
we are, I think we have threeguys and four ladies, so there's
a lot of professional pms outthere that are women and doing a
incredible job.
Mellissa Chapman (22:35):
So I'm excited to see that I don't think any
of us ladies are surprised.
Walt, of course not did I saysurprised?
Walt Sparling (22:44):
I just, I just am impressed.
I think it's awesome becausei't know, like in the early days
it was just like I think when Ifirst talked with you, melissa,
I thought differently ofteacher transitioning.
Mellissa Chapman (22:57):
Yes, I remember us having that
conversation.
Walt Sparling (22:59):
I was like, come on, teachers can't be project
managers.
Mellissa Chapman (23:02):
I'm like wait a second.
Let me tell you all the things,walt.
Walt Sparling (23:06):
And we went down through all the lists and the
parallels and I'm like, well,you know what that actually
makes a lot of sense, yeah.
Mellissa Chapman (23:15):
So I think the biggest one is they're used to
dealing with children and whatdo we do every day?
Amanda Sherman (23:19):
Cat herding, cat herding yeah.
Walt Sparling (23:25):
So, children, joe , tell us a little bit about you
when I let's see, the last timeyou were on, we were reviewing
a book of yours and I believe itwas it might.
Was it the capm?
I have it here on my shelf.
Uh, no, pmp.
Oh okay, I remember we had alot of detailed conversation
(23:47):
about how heavy it was and howcool the cover was, and we
actually got into.
Joseph Phillips (23:53):
Thank god they didn't put my picture on it.
Yeah, I've been, um, veryfortunate.
Well, first off, to say I'mreally humbled to be, you know,
in this group.
I mean, all y' all have suchdepth and a lot of cool things
you're doing.
So, yeah, I might be the onlyguy, but what an impressive
(24:13):
group of people.
So thank you for having me on,walt.
As always, my career's been justa conglomerate of things, you
know consulting, writing andteaching.
And then I really moved from,you know, adult education and
not like little kids.
I mean, let's be real, what isit that?
(24:34):
My best advice I ever got wason a book of matches keep dry
and away from children.
So, yeah, but adult education.
So I started teaching at acollege and then I went to
online education and thenrecorded.
You know, that's really thelast six years have seen my
(25:00):
audience.
Just, we just broke through amillion people in my classes
this year.
So that's really humbling.
When I was traveling to Arkansasa couple weeks ago, I was
grabbing a sandwich and thislady was like Joseph Joseph.
I'm like I don't know this ladyand she's like I'm in your
class, I want to get a picture.
I'm like, all right, of course,it was kind of cool.
(25:22):
And then I had a similarexperience playing golf and I
got paired with this guy and atthe end of the round he was like
I know, I know you, I'm in yourclass.
It's like oh, what did I justsay the last four hours?
So it's, I'm the luckiest guy.
I know for sure, have had justa tremendous amount of luck of
(25:43):
being at the right place at theright time, having really really
good people to help.
So since we talked I haven'twritten any more books.
In fact I passed on one of mytitles on the CAPM.
I opted not to do that justtime-wise.
It just didn't make sense forhow the other one performed.
(26:07):
But I'm looking at revamping thePMI ACP, as that's changing
here in a few days with PMI andtheir crafty ways.
So it'll be interesting to seewhat comes of that certification
and the discipline agile.
So I'm keeping an eye on thatand I've been working on a top
secret project which a few ofyou know about.
(26:28):
That is taking me about a yearto get to this point, or just
over a year, and we're lookingto go live at the end of the
year or January and all of youwill hear about this.
I'm sure, if you're not alreadyinvolved, I think three of you
are involved, so it's been kindof an evolution of ideas to get
(26:52):
to this point.
I don't want to let the cat outof the bag or spill the beans or
any other cliche you can thinkof, but it's something I'm
really excited about.
It's kind of getting back tothe realistic expectations of
projects, and I think there's alot of fluff in theory and navel
gazing that happens in projects.
So this is more about coreproject management and getting
(27:14):
things done, like Teresa, usingpractical tools.
I think that's exactly what wehave to do.
You can know all the theoriesin the world and talk about
Pareto, but if you can't getthings done, what difference
does it make?
So I'm a big advocate ofSmartsheets as well.
I think it's a really good,really good app.
So yeah, so I've been just kindof chugging along.
(27:38):
Business is growing.
I partnered with O'Reilly thisyear to do some courses for them
, working on another course forthem now and still just banging
out content for YouTube andLinkedIn.
But I have a tremendous teamnow, a good, really good group
of people.
So I'm I'm really blessed,really lucky, and who knows what
(28:02):
this next year is going togoing to hold.
I'm pretty excited about thisproject, which you'll see in
December, early January.
Walt Sparling (28:09):
We'll be talking about it on the podcast.
I can tell.
Joseph Phillips (28:12):
Yeah, a little teaser there of things to come.
Walt Sparling (28:18):
Awesome, that's my shtick I want to say real
briefly and anybody can chime inbut Nicole, who couldn't make
it today.
She had a work conflict andwould have loved to have her on.
She actually works in theenvironmental world and she does
kind of part-time projectmanagement with what she does.
But she's a very techie personwhen it comes to environmental
(28:42):
stuff and sad that she couldn'tmake it tonight, but I might get
her on another episode.
Just catch up with her becauseit's been a while since we've
chatted on on the podcast.
Do you guys have any questionsfor each other?
I know a few of you interminglequite a bit, like especially
kayla and melissa, and I knowwe're all in similar groups and
(29:03):
Joe on LinkedIn.
So what do we got?
Who's got?
What are you?
Joseph Phillips (29:08):
what are you been doing?
Walt Sparling (29:09):
Well, oh, oh, yeah, I did say I was going to
share some stuff, didn't I?
Yeah, but you have a spot.
So it was 2024, 2024 was a bigtransition year for me.
I changed jobs.
I was with another account I'mon, I work for a large
international real estatecompany and we I work on the uh
(29:31):
project development side wherewe do accounts, and I was on an
energy account which Teresa isstill on same one.
That's how I met her and Itrans, transitioned over to a
huge international bankingorganization and I stepped down.
I was a regional lead and so Imanaged a team of PMs and they
(29:53):
burnt me out.
They just I had to get out ofit.
I think it was just more of theaccount and everything going on
and I switched.
Now I went back down to asenior PM role and it's freed up
a ton of my time and I get nowI'm like focused on other side
(30:14):
things that I never had time todo before, cause at the other
place I was coming home and justwanting to crash.
So I am actually working on abook, I am working on setting up
some coaching, which actually Italked to Melissa about last
week and maybe some training,but I did have a PM reach out to
me that I used to work with todo some mentoring for them.
So starting to do more or kindof get in the practical stuff
(30:46):
and work with some PMs to helpthem grow along, I did.
This is not a big deal comparedto some of you, because I looked
at your followers on LinkedInand I'm hoping this episode gets
me a few more, but I think wehave a couple in the 20s 20,000s
.
Joe, I think you're around40,000.
And I just hit like just shy of3,100.
(31:07):
So I have a big family, but Ibut I'll tell you what I part of
it is what you guys do is beingconsistent and out there and I
know you talk about sometimesyou write serious stuff and
sometimes you just say whateveryou want.
And I I know Kayla I've seenher post transition over the
(31:27):
last year or so and so goodorganic growth and I'm hoping to
do that once I start gettinginto these other areas and get a
book out there and get thissecret project out there, and
I'm excited about all the stuffthat's going to come in 25,
which is right around the corner.
(31:47):
So that's kind of what's goingon with me.
So back to everyone else.
Amanda Sherman (31:54):
I got a question that posed for the group and
Walt you included, becauseyou're part of the folks that
have kind of transitioned, kindof doing your own thing, kind of
transition, kind of doing yourown thing.
But Joey mentioned thesupportive people you know
around him that helped himsucceed and they kind of made me
question, like some made Ithink all of us have, but some
(32:20):
have made like a really big jump.
Like you know, melissa wentfrom teacher to project manager,
kayla, you, girl, your storywas like wow, like a really big
jump.
Like you know, melissa wentfrom teacher to project manager
kayla, you, girl, you your storywas like wow because you went
and did your own thing.
And it made me ask like, um,there's people who are thinking
about doing this and thinkingabout going into project
(32:41):
management but scared to do itand like, so what made you go?
Okay, I can do this, I'm, I'mjust gonna go and like.
So Joe, you know, mentionedpeople that you know really
supported, you know, circle offriends and family.
Um, I know that's not all of it, it's just, but you know what's
(33:03):
there, you know what kind ofmade you go or helped you make
that step to go, do that.
Joseph Phillips (33:12):
Well, I always ask myself what's the worst that
could happen, I mean the really, really ultimate worst that
could happen.
So if you want to take on arole and you're scared to do it,
what's the worst that couldhappen?
I mean, if you fail, what's theworst that could happen?
I mean, if you fail, what's theworst that could happen?
And you begin to put things inperspective that it's really.
It might be scary because youdon't want to fail.
(33:33):
I mean, obviously no one wantsto fail.
You want to do a good job.
But when you go into somethingintimidated, I think it becomes
harder to perform, to have thatconfidence, and then you get
that whole imposter syndrome ofI don't really belong here.
So I think there are two thingsthat an individual can do.
One is education.
(33:54):
Education.
When you know what you'retalking about, you're more
confident.
And the second thing is exactlywhat you hit on is that you need
other people, and I think a lotof project managers, because
they don't want to fail and theyfeel so much pressure they put
on themselves that they want todo everything themselves.
(34:16):
And it's like if you ever watcha surgery, the surgeon's not
doing everything.
You have the med tech and theanesthesiologist, the other
nurses.
You need a team, you have todelegate and then to trust
people is something that youjust have to do as a PM and you
know trust but verify, but youhave to let go.
(34:38):
So I think, where all of uscome to some extent as an
education background, that youget confidence through knowledge
and then you apply thatknowledge, you get confidence,
confidence by learning, and it'sjust a snowball effect.
Kayla McGuire (34:49):
So that's I would I would add to that too to say
like to remember that confidenceis built over time.
It doesn't just happen likeyou're saying you might get that
from education, whatever.
So for me I think it was littlestuff being brave enough to
take one little step andrealizing that I could do it,
and then taking a little bitbigger step and you just keep
(35:13):
going and you prove to yourselfthat you can do it.
Joseph Phillips (35:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
And the whole snowball effectthat confidence breeds
confidence.
Kayla McGuire (35:21):
Yeah, yeah.
Walt Sparling (35:23):
Well, when you talk about you know Joe was
talking about supportive people.
When I first started I wasdoing design work and I was a
project manager for designprojects.
But I decided I wanted to goout and be like a full-time PM,
real, real PM, get mycertification, and I started
looking into PMI and doing that.
(35:44):
And then a friend of mine I'dknown for 15 years we had worked
together with three other firmscalled me up and said, hey,
they're looking for a senior PMwhere I work and you'd be
perfect.
And I'm like no, I'm not asenior PM, I'm still kind of
learning to be a PM.
And she used an expletive word.
It's send your word, resume andapply.
(36:10):
So I did and that kicked off awhole new career for me.
By doing that, I interviewedand was accepted and I worked
with her for about another sixyears in that job and so, yeah,
encouragement.
People say you know, they knowyou and they go you can do this,
(36:30):
just go do it.
Mellissa Chapman (36:33):
I think it's helpful to have people who have
done it and I think you knowpart of you know, as I was
mentioning coaching and thesethings that sort of kept
happening is because people wantto see someone two or three
steps ahead of them.
And so I was a teacher and Istarted on LinkedIn looking for
a job and I documented everystep of the way and all of my
(36:54):
failures and all of the hundredsof jobs and then, as I
documented how I changed myresume and started getting
interviews, and people I thinkreally resonate with seeing
someone else be successful andhearing their story, and so I
think being able to share thatand talk about that and document
that people are, it's helpful.
When you have your own impostersyndrome, I mean the day that I
(37:16):
applied to the PMP applicationand I got denied, I literally
took the rest of the day off.
I was in my classroom and Ileft, which never happens ever,
like you never take a day offbut I was just so devastated,
had such real imposter syndrome,like what am I doing?
What am I possibly thinking Icould be doing here, regrouped,
(37:37):
you know, went back at it kindof like no, I can do this, and
having that confidence to sayyou know what, I'm going to keep
trying.
It's like a bit of perseverance, right, and being able to share
that story.
And now I help other people whoare in that same imposter
syndrome phase where they'relike I don't know what can I do,
what could I do?
What happens if I fail?
What happens if I get rejected?
(37:58):
I'm like, well, I'm here totell you that's not the end of
the story.
You can keep pushing forwardand so just being able to share
that story and encourage othersI think everyone here has
versions of that that we canshare.
Teresa O'Hanlon (38:11):
That's a great point, melissa.
I took a training once that wasabout imposter syndrome and
they said one way to combat thatis to put yet at the end of
your sentence.
So you know, in your case Idon't have my certification yet
but I will get it.
You know I can't do this yetbut I will get you know there at
some point.
So I think that's really reallyvalid, like failures can happen
(38:35):
, but you know you can getthrough them.
And the other thing I wouldmention for me personally when I
took my role, is I kind ofbecame a yes person for a while
and I said yes to a lot ofthings.
I said yes to a lot of things Inormally would say no to
because I felt like I eithercouldn't do it or I wasn't maybe
confident to do it.
But I knew that saying yeswould would kind of push me into
(38:57):
a growth perspective instead ofgetting stagnant.
So so that's led to kind ofwhere I'm at today and it's
helped.
I mean, now I'm kind of in aposition where maybe I can say
no to some things because youknow you start to become that
yes person and you may get toomuch on your plate and you got
to know, you know, when it'stime to stop and just let
(39:18):
yourself, you know, handle whatyou have.
But that's kind of how I, atleast, was able to get the
confidence to kind of moveforward, you know, and to be
where I'm at today.
Walt Sparling (39:28):
Okay, kayla had to drop.
Thanks, kayla, if you're stillhere, I understand, and I know
this is.
Kayla McGuire (39:37):
Got to go.
Got to go, thank you, but mylittle girl's home.
Walt Sparling (39:40):
All right, thanks , kayla.
Kayla McGuire (39:42):
Good to see you, guys, thank you.
Walt Sparling (39:43):
Good to see you guys.
Thank you, good to see you, andI think, melissa, I know you
also have responsibilities Iknow we get a little late start
today because of the Floridatraffic, so three of us were
late, but I want to thank all ofyou for coming on.
This was it was great to seeyou guys again.
I mean other than just seeingyou on LinkedIn.
It's great to have everyonetogether.
(40:04):
Any final thoughts or didanyone have a?
Did you know they can share?
Amanda Sherman (40:11):
I was going to say we got to have a signature
one.
Did you know?
Before we leave here.
Walt Sparling (40:20):
I didn't plan on it.
Did you know what I got?
One cool, very Florida, veryFlorida-esque.
Amanda Sherman (40:25):
Did you know what I got?
One Cool, Very Florida, veryFlorida-esque.
It's about our mosquito, ourstate bug and one did you know
that mosquitoes have teeth,teeth.
That's what I said.
And then teeth, yeah, what Isaid.
(40:48):
And then yeah, and 47 at that.
So Wow.
I didn't feel he was thinkingabout it.
Mellissa Chapman (40:55):
I might have nightmares tonight.
Teresa O'Hanlon (40:58):
I just thought it was those little probes.
Amanda Sherman (41:00):
I thought, so too.
Kayla McGuire (41:01):
I don't know.
Amanda Sherman (41:04):
Did you know, mosquitoes have 47 teeth.
Teresa O'Hanlon (41:06):
I know.
Walt Sparling (41:09):
All right Well thanks again for all of you
coming on, you top five rockstars, and we, or I, look
forward to hopefully seeing manyof you again back on other
future episodes.
So enjoy your evening and foreveryone else.
We'll see you on the nextepisode of PM Mastery.
Joseph Phillips (41:32):
Thank, you Walt Nice to see everyone All right.
Intro/Outro (41:35):
Nice to meet everyone.
Thanks for listening to the PMMastery podcast at
wwwpm-masterycom.
Be sure to subscribe in yourpodcast player.
Until next time, keep workingon your craft.
Welcome to the PM Mastery Podcast.
This podcast is all abouthelping you master your project
management skills by sharingtips, tricks, tools and training
to get you to the next level,while sharing the stories of
other project managers on theirjourney in project management.
And now here's your host, waltSparling.
Walt Sparling (00:37):
Welcome everybody to the current edition of PM
Mastery.
And today I have a panel ofguests.
And today I have a panel ofguests all former interviewees
on the podcast.
In fact they are the top fivemost popular episodes on the
podcast.
Since the beginning of thepodcast the interviews happened
(00:57):
anywhere from, I'd say, a yearand a half to over two years ago
a year and a half to over twoyears ago and very consistent
downloads and ahead of quite abit of the other episodes.
So you guys were like superpopular.
So we do have a couple thatcould not make it this evening.
One is still trying on the roadand one had a last minute work
(01:21):
conflict.
So I'll talk a little bit aboutthem while they're not here and
then hopefully she'll forgiveme.
So with us today we have, in noparticular order, kayla McGuire
, melissa Chapman, josephPhillips and missing we have
(01:42):
Teresa O'Hanlon and NicoleCaputo, and then I have my
occasional lovely Amanda Sherman, who co-hosts some episodes
with me.
Welcome all of you.
Mellissa Chapman (01:52):
Hello, glad to be here.
Walt Sparling (01:55):
So what we're going to do is just this is
great.
You guys were the most popular,so you've got some magic, and I
thought we'd just celebratethat and talk a little bit about
what's happened since the lasttime you were on the podcast.
So I know each of you just Ifollow you all on LinkedIn and I
(02:16):
know that you've madetransitions since you were last
on, so I thought we'd talk alittle bit about that and see
where it takes us that and seewhere it takes us.
So I'm going to start with Kayla.
Yay, okay, I'm so excited, sotell us a little bit about from
when you were last on thepodcast, which, according to my
(02:39):
notes, was in 2023 2023.
Kayla McGuire (02:45):
You are correct, june of 2023 uh-huh and I I
think that was actually thefirst podcast I was ever on and
now you're famous.
Walt Sparling (02:55):
see, I don't just coming on here can make a huge
(03:16):
difference.
It jump-started my career.
Everything's changed.
Yes, and I think you had fourto go, and I just looked at your
subscription list yesterday andyou're almost 4,000.
Kayla McGuire (03:33):
So I am.
Thank you and I remember that.
I remember that conversationwith you and I was so excited to
hit a thousand.
I thought that's just going tobe it and yeah, now I'm at.
I think 3683 is the number Isee.
Walt Sparling (03:48):
And that's pretty good Cause I looked at it
yesterday and it was 3670.
So you bumped a lot just in thelast day.
Amanda Sherman (03:56):
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (03:57):
Now, when you first came on, you were doing uh
, pm consulting.
You were also you were doing acourse on four individuals that
were interested in getting intoconsulting and you had started a
blog in the beginning and thenyou switched to the YouTube
channel.
You're very active on LinkedInand you have a huge following on
(04:21):
LinkedIn as well.
Linkedin, and you have a hugefollowing on LinkedIn as well.
A bootcamp that's what you weredoing.
A bootcamp for PMs.
Mellissa Chapman (04:28):
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (04:30):
So is that?
Are you still doing all that?
You're doing anything else?
Kayla McGuire (04:42):
Well, life evolves, it changes, so I am
still doing a lot of that, butsort of in different capacities.
So when we talked in 2023, Iwas doing very specific project
management consulting, projectmanagement work, and for the
past year and a half, I've beendoing more fractional operations
strategic consulting forbusiness owners, so a little bit
more holistic type of workthere, rather than just focusing
(05:04):
on the project management,although I still love project
management and I seem to come ateverything with a project
management framework which I'msure so many of my fellow
project managers can relate to.
But, yeah, I've been doing thisfractional operations strategic
consulting.
It's been great.
I've learned a lot still onLinkedIn, like you mentioned,
(05:27):
and yeah, I've shifted myLinkedIn strategy a little bit
too to talk more about I don'tknow just the nuances of working
in life, rather than beingsolely focused on project
management.
After a couple years, I gotalmost tired of talking about
project management all the time.
So, yeah, I've been leaninginto that with my LinkedIn.
(05:50):
Youtube has been happening,been doing a lot of interviews
with some really great folks onYouTube, because I got tired of
doing these monologue videoswhere it's just me talking to
the camera, so I startedinviting other experts and
industry leaders onto my channel.
So that's what's happening onYouTube, and I don't do the
(06:12):
bootcamp anymore.
I spun that off into a coursewhich is available on demand.
It has all the same informationthat I use with my clients and
that I've learned through my ownexperience and have helped
others with in boot camps andone-on-one coaching.
So, yeah, oh, and I was able toparticipate in a book project
(06:34):
called Executing Excellence with10 other project managers.
That was a fun project thatcame my way.
I guess that was in 2023.
So lots of really excitingstuff happening.
Walt Sparling (06:47):
Good deal and welcome Teresa.
Teresa just joined us.
I know she was stuck in traffic.
Are you still stuck in traffic,teresa?
Teresa O'Hanlon (06:56):
Oh, now Can you hear me.
Walt Sparling (06:58):
Oh, now we can hear you.
Teresa O'Hanlon (06:59):
Okay, it's been a while since I've been on Zoom
.
Yeah, I am home now.
We just got home.
It took about an hour to go,like five miles, so it was a
rough day on the road.
Walt Sparling (07:11):
I think it was a Florida issue, because Amanda
and I were both about an hour.
Teresa O'Hanlon (07:16):
Yeah, traffic's been bad today.
Walt Sparling (07:19):
Welcome on.
Teresa O'Hanlon (07:21):
Thank you.
Walt Sparling (07:21):
So, kayla, exciting stuff.
Now let's see who are we goingto jump to next?
I guess right at right acrossfrom you is melissa, so we're
going to jump over to melissasounds good so, melissa, I
believe you followed kayla acouple months it was august,
yeah, august of last summer andyou have a very interesting path
(07:46):
in that you used to be ateacher and then you decided to
go into project management.
You saw some parallels.
You put together an applicationand you applied and they said
uh-uh.
And you said uh-huh and youwent back and redid your
application and they audited youagain, but I believe you were
(08:09):
then accepted.
Sure was.
And now you're doing that, orhave been doing that for quite a
while helping other people,especially transitioning
teachers, get into projectmanagement.
Mellissa Chapman (08:20):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, so we were.
We had our conversation inAugust and the timing of that I
was thinking back to that.
Shortly after that, I releasedan ebook on the PMP application
process and kind of shared thatwhole process that you just
explained how I was audited anddenied and then audited again
(08:41):
and then reapplied and all thosethings, and so, yeah, I created
a resource that I now helpother people think through the
experience that they have thatisn't official or I would call
traditional project managementexperience.
They maybe didn't have the jobtitle of project manager, but
have experience.
You could talk toadministrative assistants, you
talk to nurses, schoolcounselors, teachers all kinds
(09:03):
of people who have projectmanagement experience.
So, anyway, I wrote that e-bookand that came out not too long
after you and I spoke and Istarted coaching also.
So all of these things werethings that I didn't really seek
out.
I didn't make this list of, oh,I'm going to do this and then
this, but these opportunitieskept falling in my lap and so I
started coaching, because I keptgetting asked if I coached and
(09:25):
I thought I'll give it a try andthen started working with a lot
of transitioning teachers,either pivoting into project
management or just trying toleave the classroom and helping
them find clarity and updatetheir resume and how to
translate whatever experiencethey have in teaching or other
industries into projectmanagement or somewhere else.
So I've been doing a lot of thathave the opportunity to work
(09:48):
with Better Career and create aproject management learning
module where a whole programwhere people who are looking to
pivot into project managementhave never heard of project
management have a five modulecourse where they can learn
about how to do that, learnabout project management and
have job seeker resources.
I'm very excited about thatproject that I also stumbled
(10:13):
upon and other projects that arecoming in the future.
So very excited about just thelast year and all the
opportunities that have comefrom yeah, being a middle school
teacher at one point and nowI'm working with all kinds of
people, so this is prettyexciting.
Walt Sparling (10:28):
Yeah, You've.
You've also put together quitea list of followers on LinkedIn.
Mellissa Chapman (10:35):
Yeah.
Walt Sparling (10:35):
It's.
Mellissa Chapman (10:36):
It's also been one of those things I have a
mix of again, a lot oftransitioning teachers.
Every time I write Kayla and Iactually talked about this not
too long ago you know, when I goout, when I set out to like
write a post on LinkedIn andI've done all this research and
I have stats or this or thatthose posts do not do well.
When I just write one on a whimin two seconds and like throw it
(10:56):
on LinkedIn, those thingsthey'll go viral.
I have people like those getshared like tons of times, and
most of the time the ones thatdo really well in my network are
anything to do with changingcareers or transitioning
teachers.
And I think it's because I havea network of not only project
managers but also educators, anda lot of project managers have
(11:19):
either their own kids ineducation or know someone who
was a teacher, and so itresonates with a lot of people
who are concerned abouteducation in our country, and so
it's an interesting place toget to straddle that line and be
able to.
Some days I wake up, like Kaylasaid, some days I wake up and I
feel like I want to write aboutproject management, and then
other days I write aboutteaching and how to support
(11:41):
people who are looking for jobs.
So I just kind of write what Ifeel like, and I don't really
have a LinkedIn strategy.
It's just whatever I feel like.
Walt Sparling (11:49):
That's your strategy.
Mellissa Chapman (11:50):
That is my strategy.
Amanda Sherman (11:54):
I had a question for Melissa.
How is like when you transitionfellow teachers over to project
management, what's your, what'sthe feedback that you get from
them?
Like they're you know oncethey've been in it for maybe
about a year or so.
So it's always interesting tosee that or to hear about
(12:15):
people's experiences in general.
So what's kind of your feedbackthat you've gotten from your,
the folks that have transitioned?
Mellissa Chapman (12:22):
Yeah, you know you hear this a lot, but the
biggest thing is work-lifebalance.
Teachers are just overworkedand underpaid and I know that's
a cliche, but it's very true.
There's a real thing called theSunday night scary, and that's
not just, you know, isolated toteachers, but a lot of teachers
feel that and I felt that a lot.
And so just having thisexperience where I get excited
(12:43):
about my job on Monday morningand I'm not like waking, I'm not
like dreading Sunday because ofhaving to be on and feeling
guilty if I'm not grading papersand not constantly doing work,
and so that was the mostsignificant change and my kids
noticed it, my friends andfamily noticed it, and when I
work with transitioning teachers, the thing I hear the most
(13:05):
often is my family and myfriends and my kids notice that
I'm a different person, I'm ableto give more to my family
because I've left, and so,unfortunately, that's the
reality for a lot of teachers isthat it's just so draining that
when they leave it's asignificant, it's very
noticeable, yeah wow, that isinteresting.
(13:26):
My own daughter said to me, mom,you're like I was three weeks
out of out of the classroom.
Mom, you're so much lessstressed than you used to be.
I mean like right away shenoticed so that's.
Amanda Sherman (13:37):
That's really telling, because I really feel
like project management.
Um, it has its ups and downs,but it does seem like a like it
can be really stressful.
Mellissa Chapman (13:48):
Oh, it can be.
It's not to say, it's not, itspeaks volumes for our teachers.
Amanda Sherman (13:59):
Well, it speaks volumes because now I mean I
think everyone in the room canattest to some project
management stress moments, butthat really speaks volumes about
the pressures on our teachers.
Yeah, interesting.
Walt Sparling (14:10):
Yeah, good question so I'm going to let
amanda ask some, some morequestions, and she's on a roll
you're moving on the plot.
Amanda Sherman (14:22):
Well, I wanted to talk with teresa because
teresa, it's been a minute sincewe caught up and stuff.
But, um, so I, if I'm recallingright, I feel like you were
probably you were one of thefirst 10, I think, podcast
interviews that Walt, that Waltheld, you know, back in the day
(14:44):
and you're and um, I feel likeyour story is pretty inspiring.
Um, because theresa and I worktogether, so we um, I got to see
her just shoot up there becauseshe is most awesome in the the
(15:06):
topics that she spoke about.
Um, so it was a one note wasyour um, your tool of choice and
um and calendar blocking?
So I would ask like, have you?
I'd be curious is if you whatother tools you might use now or
(15:27):
that you might share with us.
Teresa O'Hanlon (15:31):
Yeah, absolutely yeah.
I would say.
My latest tool of choice isSmartsheet.
I don't know if anyone else onthe call is using Smartsheet.
It's.
It's a really interesting takeon Excel.
It's a little bit moreinteractive and I think it's
actually a project.
It can potentially be a projectmanagement tool and I think
it's actually a project.
It can potentially be a projectmanagement tool.
You can use it for that totrack schedules, but it can also
(15:54):
be used to like as an intakeform.
You can use it to interact withpeople that are outside of the
technology and they can use aform to submit data.
There's just a lot of differentways to use it and we found, I
would say, a handful of ways touse it with my team.
That's definitely helpedimprove efficiency and workflows
(16:15):
and automations and things likethat.
So that's the latest one.
I'm still in OneNote, though Iuse that heavily for playbooks
and just my own personalnote-taking.
Calendar blocking is key tostay on track, I know.
For me personally, I actuallyprobably got that more from Walt
than I got from my own toolkit,if you will.
(16:38):
But yeah, smartsheet isdefinitely the number one thing
for me right now.
Amanda Sherman (16:44):
Interesting.
You'd be so proud of me now andhow developed I have become
with OneNote.
I was, um, when she said I wasstruggling and I'm actually a
teacher, where I am right now alittle bit yeah, I use it a lot
now for sure, um, so it's been awhile since we caught up.
(17:07):
So you have grown in your joband just maybe if you could tell
us a little bit about it,because you started out in
project management as a projectcoordinator project coordinator,
which, I have to say, I knewshe wasn't going to be there
this long, that long because shewas awesome at keeping, at
(17:34):
corralling all the projectmanagers in our department and
keeping them on track andeverything like that.
She was the best.
So I know you moved up and outand where are you now?
Teresa O'Hanlon (17:44):
Yeah, yeah, so I still interact with the
project managers.
But I work in a departmentcalled the Center of Excellence
and we're kind of similar to aPMO, you know, project
management office.
But we support all of thedifferent facets of our account
team.
So we also have, like,facilities management.
We have a workplace strategywhich has occupancy planning and
(18:09):
lease admin.
There's, you know, the RPM teamrelocation, project management
and moves.
So we kind of go in to supportthe different teams in whatever
way they need in terms ofprocess improvement, playbook
creation, documentation, andthen I also help with
communications for the account.
(18:30):
But yeah, I went from projectcoordinator to like a strictly a
governance and processimprovement role and now I'm in
change management communicationsspecifically for internal team.
Walt Sparling (18:46):
Now I happen to remember where you did a short
stint as a project manager justto get a feel for it, and after
the end of that you're like,yeah, I'm good.
Teresa O'Hanlon (18:56):
It was fun.
I just think my where I reallylike shine and where my strength
is is working with process andfinding better solutions to like
what people are currently doingand it's not to say that
anything that they do today isbad.
I just like to find ways tomake people more efficient and
(19:17):
to help them.
You know, if they can takesomething they do and it takes
them an hour and we can cut itdown to 10 minutes, like I think
that's a huge win and it helpswith the work-life balancing
right, because if you can takesomething that's an hour and
chop it down to 10 minutes, likeI think that's a huge win and
it helps with the work-lifebalancing right, cause if you
can take something that's anhour and chop it down to 10
minutes, then maybe you canspend, you know, a little bit
more time with your kids or takea walk or you know whatever
(19:39):
else they want to do.
Walt Sparling (19:40):
Great stuff.
Amanda Sherman (19:42):
Sounds like.
Sounds like somebody else.
I know if I'm pointing the wallso I do.
Walt Sparling (19:51):
I do remember, I mean all the fun times working
with theresa.
Back in the day and I was justlooking your interview was
actually in 2021, so you were inthe early days and it was a.
It took off that.
Your episode took off rightaway.
It was just like for I thinkfor over a year and a half you
were number one.
It's just crazy how popular itwas Like we were just talking
(20:15):
about it before you got on, toois project coordinator roles.
It's, I think it's like anentryway into a lot of positions
which it was for you.
You came from.
You were a I'm trying toremember the title you had
before you came over.
You worked for a manufacturingcompany, didn't you?
Teresa O'Hanlon (20:32):
Yes, yeah, electronics manufacturer, and I
kind of bumped around intodifferent roles at that company.
They were pretty small, but Iwas in business development when
I left the company when I leftthe company.
Walt Sparling (20:46):
So it's good to see you.
Teresa O'Hanlon (20:48):
I happen to catch wind of all hands today
and I think I saw your namepopping up a lot in there.
Yeah, yeah, we have an employeeof the quarter and I happened
to win it, and along withanother colleague it wasn't just
me and it's all based off ofour internal recognition program
.
It's just how many recognitionsyou get from this program in
(21:11):
the quarter, so it wasdefinitely objective.
I promise it wasn't subjective.
I say that because I alsohelped to run this meeting.
So yeah, it was fun for sure.
Walt Sparling (21:28):
It was fun for sure.
Good deal Glad to have you onand to have you in the top five,
thank you.
Of course we don't want to skippast Joe here.
Joe is also in the top five.
He's like the thorn among allthe roses here.
I have to say I am amazed atall of you know all but Joe in
(21:52):
the top are women and verysuccessful and, I would say,
powerful women.
And I I'm amazed.
When I got into projectmanagement, it was I more on the
male side and I started workingwith some incredible female PMs
and then I met Amanda, who wasawesome and, I believe, still is
(22:15):
.
I don't work with her now, butwas a great PM and on our team
we are, I think we have threeguys and four ladies, so there's
a lot of professional pms outthere that are women and doing a
incredible job.
Mellissa Chapman (22:35):
So I'm excited to see that I don't think any
of us ladies are surprised.
Walt, of course not did I saysurprised?
Walt Sparling (22:44):
I just, I just am impressed.
I think it's awesome becausei't know, like in the early days
it was just like I think when Ifirst talked with you, melissa,
I thought differently ofteacher transitioning.
Mellissa Chapman (22:57):
Yes, I remember us having that
conversation.
Walt Sparling (22:59):
I was like, come on, teachers can't be project
managers.
Mellissa Chapman (23:02):
I'm like wait a second.
Let me tell you all the things,walt.
Walt Sparling (23:06):
And we went down through all the lists and the
parallels and I'm like, well,you know what that actually
makes a lot of sense, yeah.
Mellissa Chapman (23:15):
So I think the biggest one is they're used to
dealing with children and whatdo we do every day?
Amanda Sherman (23:19):
Cat herding, cat herding yeah.
Walt Sparling (23:25):
So, children, joe , tell us a little bit about you
when I let's see, the last timeyou were on, we were reviewing
a book of yours and I believe itwas it might.
Was it the capm?
I have it here on my shelf.
Uh, no, pmp.
Oh okay, I remember we had alot of detailed conversation
(23:47):
about how heavy it was and howcool the cover was, and we
actually got into.
Joseph Phillips (23:53):
Thank god they didn't put my picture on it.
Yeah, I've been, um, veryfortunate.
Well, first off, to say I'mreally humbled to be, you know,
in this group.
I mean, all y' all have suchdepth and a lot of cool things
you're doing.
So, yeah, I might be the onlyguy, but what an impressive
(24:13):
group of people.
So thank you for having me on,walt.
As always, my career's been justa conglomerate of things, you
know consulting, writing andteaching.
And then I really moved from,you know, adult education and
not like little kids.
I mean, let's be real, what isit that?
(24:34):
My best advice I ever got wason a book of matches keep dry
and away from children.
So, yeah, but adult education.
So I started teaching at acollege and then I went to
online education and thenrecorded.
You know, that's really thelast six years have seen my
(25:00):
audience.
Just, we just broke through amillion people in my classes
this year.
So that's really humbling.
When I was traveling to Arkansasa couple weeks ago, I was
grabbing a sandwich and thislady was like Joseph Joseph.
I'm like I don't know this ladyand she's like I'm in your
class, I want to get a picture.
I'm like, all right, of course,it was kind of cool.
(25:22):
And then I had a similarexperience playing golf and I
got paired with this guy and atthe end of the round he was like
I know, I know you, I'm in yourclass.
It's like oh, what did I justsay the last four hours?
So it's, I'm the luckiest guy.
I know for sure, have had justa tremendous amount of luck of
(25:43):
being at the right place at theright time, having really really
good people to help.
So since we talked I haven'twritten any more books.
In fact I passed on one of mytitles on the CAPM.
I opted not to do that justtime-wise.
It just didn't make sense forhow the other one performed.
(26:07):
But I'm looking at revamping thePMI ACP, as that's changing
here in a few days with PMI andtheir crafty ways.
So it'll be interesting to seewhat comes of that certification
and the discipline agile.
So I'm keeping an eye on thatand I've been working on a top
secret project which a few ofyou know about.
(26:28):
That is taking me about a yearto get to this point, or just
over a year, and we're lookingto go live at the end of the
year or January and all of youwill hear about this.
I'm sure, if you're not alreadyinvolved, I think three of you
are involved, so it's been kindof an evolution of ideas to get
(26:52):
to this point.
I don't want to let the cat outof the bag or spill the beans or
any other cliche you can thinkof, but it's something I'm
really excited about.
It's kind of getting back tothe realistic expectations of
projects, and I think there's alot of fluff in theory and navel
gazing that happens in projects.
So this is more about coreproject management and getting
(27:14):
things done, like Teresa, usingpractical tools.
I think that's exactly what wehave to do.
You can know all the theoriesin the world and talk about
Pareto, but if you can't getthings done, what difference
does it make?
So I'm a big advocate ofSmartsheets as well.
I think it's a really good,really good app.
So yeah, so I've been just kindof chugging along.
(27:38):
Business is growing.
I partnered with O'Reilly thisyear to do some courses for them
, working on another course forthem now and still just banging
out content for YouTube andLinkedIn.
But I have a tremendous teamnow, a good, really good group
of people.
So I'm I'm really blessed,really lucky, and who knows what
(28:02):
this next year is going togoing to hold.
I'm pretty excited about thisproject, which you'll see in
December, early January.
Walt Sparling (28:09):
We'll be talking about it on the podcast.
I can tell.
Joseph Phillips (28:12):
Yeah, a little teaser there of things to come.
Walt Sparling (28:18):
Awesome, that's my shtick I want to say real
briefly and anybody can chime inbut Nicole, who couldn't make
it today.
She had a work conflict andwould have loved to have her on.
She actually works in theenvironmental world and she does
kind of part-time projectmanagement with what she does.
But she's a very techie personwhen it comes to environmental
(28:42):
stuff and sad that she couldn'tmake it tonight, but I might get
her on another episode.
Just catch up with her becauseit's been a while since we've
chatted on on the podcast.
Do you guys have any questionsfor each other?
I know a few of you interminglequite a bit, like especially
kayla and melissa, and I knowwe're all in similar groups and
(29:03):
Joe on LinkedIn.
So what do we got?
Who's got?
What are you?
Joseph Phillips (29:08):
what are you been doing?
Walt Sparling (29:09):
Well, oh, oh, yeah, I did say I was going to
share some stuff, didn't I?
Yeah, but you have a spot.
So it was 2024, 2024 was a bigtransition year for me.
I changed jobs.
I was with another account I'mon, I work for a large
international real estatecompany and we I work on the uh
(29:31):
project development side wherewe do accounts, and I was on an
energy account which Teresa isstill on same one.
That's how I met her and Itrans, transitioned over to a
huge international bankingorganization and I stepped down.
I was a regional lead and so Imanaged a team of PMs and they
(29:53):
burnt me out.
They just I had to get out ofit.
I think it was just more of theaccount and everything going on
and I switched.
Now I went back down to asenior PM role and it's freed up
a ton of my time and I get nowI'm like focused on other side
(30:14):
things that I never had time todo before, cause at the other
place I was coming home and justwanting to crash.
So I am actually working on abook, I am working on setting up
some coaching, which actually Italked to Melissa about last
week and maybe some training,but I did have a PM reach out to
me that I used to work with todo some mentoring for them.
So starting to do more or kindof get in the practical stuff
(30:46):
and work with some PMs to helpthem grow along, I did.
This is not a big deal comparedto some of you, because I looked
at your followers on LinkedInand I'm hoping this episode gets
me a few more, but I think wehave a couple in the 20s 20,000s
.
Joe, I think you're around40,000.
And I just hit like just shy of3,100.
(31:07):
So I have a big family, but Ibut I'll tell you what I part of
it is what you guys do is beingconsistent and out there and I
know you talk about sometimesyou write serious stuff and
sometimes you just say whateveryou want.
And I I know Kayla I've seenher post transition over the
(31:27):
last year or so and so goodorganic growth and I'm hoping to
do that once I start gettinginto these other areas and get a
book out there and get thissecret project out there, and
I'm excited about all the stuffthat's going to come in 25,
which is right around the corner.
(31:47):
So that's kind of what's goingon with me.
So back to everyone else.
Amanda Sherman (31:54):
I got a question that posed for the group and
Walt you included, becauseyou're part of the folks that
have kind of transitioned, kindof doing your own thing, kind of
transition, kind of doing yourown thing.
But Joey mentioned thesupportive people you know
around him that helped himsucceed and they kind of made me
question, like some made Ithink all of us have, but some
(32:20):
have made like a really big jump.
Like you know, melissa wentfrom teacher to project manager,
kayla, you, girl, your storywas like wow, like a really big
jump.
Like you know, melissa wentfrom teacher to project manager
kayla, you, girl, you your storywas like wow because you went
and did your own thing.
And it made me ask like, um,there's people who are thinking
about doing this and thinkingabout going into project
(32:41):
management but scared to do itand like, so what made you go?
Okay, I can do this, I'm, I'mjust gonna go and like.
So Joe, you know, mentionedpeople that you know really
supported, you know, circle offriends and family.
Um, I know that's not all of it, it's just, but you know what's
(33:03):
there, you know what kind ofmade you go or helped you make
that step to go, do that.
Joseph Phillips (33:12):
Well, I always ask myself what's the worst that
could happen, I mean the really, really ultimate worst that
could happen.
So if you want to take on arole and you're scared to do it,
what's the worst that couldhappen?
I mean, if you fail, what's theworst that could happen?
I mean, if you fail, what's theworst that could happen?
And you begin to put things inperspective that it's really.
It might be scary because youdon't want to fail.
(33:33):
I mean, obviously no one wantsto fail.
You want to do a good job.
But when you go into somethingintimidated, I think it becomes
harder to perform, to have thatconfidence, and then you get
that whole imposter syndrome ofI don't really belong here.
So I think there are two thingsthat an individual can do.
One is education.
(33:54):
Education.
When you know what you'retalking about, you're more
confident.
And the second thing is exactlywhat you hit on is that you need
other people, and I think a lotof project managers, because
they don't want to fail and theyfeel so much pressure they put
on themselves that they want todo everything themselves.
(34:16):
And it's like if you ever watcha surgery, the surgeon's not
doing everything.
You have the med tech and theanesthesiologist, the other
nurses.
You need a team, you have todelegate and then to trust
people is something that youjust have to do as a PM and you
know trust but verify, but youhave to let go.
(34:38):
So I think, where all of uscome to some extent as an
education background, that youget confidence through knowledge
and then you apply thatknowledge, you get confidence,
confidence by learning, and it'sjust a snowball effect.
Kayla McGuire (34:49):
So that's I would I would add to that too to say
like to remember that confidenceis built over time.
It doesn't just happen likeyou're saying you might get that
from education, whatever.
So for me I think it was littlestuff being brave enough to
take one little step andrealizing that I could do it,
and then taking a little bitbigger step and you just keep
(35:13):
going and you prove to yourselfthat you can do it.
Joseph Phillips (35:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
And the whole snowball effectthat confidence breeds
confidence.
Kayla McGuire (35:21):
Yeah, yeah.
Walt Sparling (35:23):
Well, when you talk about you know Joe was
talking about supportive people.
When I first started I wasdoing design work and I was a
project manager for designprojects.
But I decided I wanted to goout and be like a full-time PM,
real, real PM, get mycertification, and I started
looking into PMI and doing that.
(35:44):
And then a friend of mine I'dknown for 15 years we had worked
together with three other firmscalled me up and said, hey,
they're looking for a senior PMwhere I work and you'd be
perfect.
And I'm like no, I'm not asenior PM, I'm still kind of
learning to be a PM.
And she used an expletive word.
It's send your word, resume andapply.
(36:10):
So I did and that kicked off awhole new career for me.
By doing that, I interviewedand was accepted and I worked
with her for about another sixyears in that job and so, yeah,
encouragement.
People say you know, they knowyou and they go you can do this,
(36:30):
just go do it.
Mellissa Chapman (36:33):
I think it's helpful to have people who have
done it and I think you knowpart of you know, as I was
mentioning coaching and thesethings that sort of kept
happening is because people wantto see someone two or three
steps ahead of them.
And so I was a teacher and Istarted on LinkedIn looking for
a job and I documented everystep of the way and all of my
(36:54):
failures and all of the hundredsof jobs and then, as I
documented how I changed myresume and started getting
interviews, and people I thinkreally resonate with seeing
someone else be successful andhearing their story, and so I
think being able to share thatand talk about that and document
that people are, it's helpful.
When you have your own impostersyndrome, I mean the day that I
(37:16):
applied to the PMP applicationand I got denied, I literally
took the rest of the day off.
I was in my classroom and Ileft, which never happens ever,
like you never take a day offbut I was just so devastated,
had such real imposter syndrome,like what am I doing?
What am I possibly thinking Icould be doing here, regrouped,
(37:37):
you know, went back at it kindof like no, I can do this, and
having that confidence to sayyou know what, I'm going to keep
trying.
It's like a bit of perseverance, right, and being able to share
that story.
And now I help other people whoare in that same imposter
syndrome phase where they'relike I don't know what can I do,
what could I do?
What happens if I fail?
What happens if I get rejected?
(37:58):
I'm like, well, I'm here totell you that's not the end of
the story.
You can keep pushing forwardand so just being able to share
that story and encourage othersI think everyone here has
versions of that that we canshare.
Teresa O'Hanlon (38:11):
That's a great point, melissa.
I took a training once that wasabout imposter syndrome and
they said one way to combat thatis to put yet at the end of
your sentence.
So you know, in your case Idon't have my certification yet
but I will get it.
You know I can't do this yetbut I will get you know there at
some point.
So I think that's really reallyvalid, like failures can happen
(38:35):
, but you know you can getthrough them.
And the other thing I wouldmention for me personally when I
took my role, is I kind ofbecame a yes person for a while
and I said yes to a lot ofthings.
I said yes to a lot of things Inormally would say no to
because I felt like I eithercouldn't do it or I wasn't maybe
confident to do it.
But I knew that saying yeswould would kind of push me into
(38:57):
a growth perspective instead ofgetting stagnant.
So so that's led to kind ofwhere I'm at today and it's
helped.
I mean, now I'm kind of in aposition where maybe I can say
no to some things because youknow you start to become that
yes person and you may get toomuch on your plate and you got
to know, you know, when it'stime to stop and just let
(39:18):
yourself, you know, handle whatyou have.
But that's kind of how I, atleast, was able to get the
confidence to kind of moveforward, you know, and to be
where I'm at today.
Walt Sparling (39:28):
Okay, kayla had to drop.
Thanks, kayla, if you're stillhere, I understand, and I know
this is.
Kayla McGuire (39:37):
Got to go.
Got to go, thank you, but mylittle girl's home.
Walt Sparling (39:40):
All right, thanks , kayla.
Kayla McGuire (39:42):
Good to see you, guys, thank you.
Walt Sparling (39:43):
Good to see you guys.
Thank you, good to see you, andI think, melissa, I know you
also have responsibilities Iknow we get a little late start
today because of the Floridatraffic, so three of us were
late, but I want to thank all ofyou for coming on.
This was it was great to seeyou guys again.
I mean other than just seeingyou on LinkedIn.
It's great to have everyonetogether.
(40:04):
Any final thoughts or didanyone have a?
Did you know they can share?
Amanda Sherman (40:11):
I was going to say we got to have a signature
one.
Did you know?
Before we leave here.
Walt Sparling (40:20):
I didn't plan on it.
Did you know what I got?
One cool, very Florida, veryFlorida-esque.
Amanda Sherman (40:25):
Did you know what I got?
One Cool, Very Florida, veryFlorida-esque.
It's about our mosquito, ourstate bug and one did you know
that mosquitoes have teeth,teeth.
That's what I said.
And then teeth, yeah, what Isaid.
(40:48):
And then yeah, and 47 at that.
So Wow.
I didn't feel he was thinkingabout it.
Mellissa Chapman (40:55):
I might have nightmares tonight.
Teresa O'Hanlon (40:58):
I just thought it was those little probes.
Amanda Sherman (41:00):
I thought, so too.
Kayla McGuire (41:01):
I don't know.
Amanda Sherman (41:04):
Did you know, mosquitoes have 47 teeth.
Teresa O'Hanlon (41:06):
I know.
Walt Sparling (41:09):
All right Well thanks again for all of you
coming on, you top five rockstars, and we, or I, look
forward to hopefully seeing manyof you again back on other
future episodes.
So enjoy your evening and foreveryone else.
We'll see you on the nextepisode of PM Mastery.
Joseph Phillips (41:32):
Thank, you Walt Nice to see everyone All right.
Intro/Outro (41:35):
Nice to meet everyone.
Thanks for listening to the PMMastery podcast at
wwwpm-masterycom.
Be sure to subscribe in yourpodcast player.
Until next time, keep workingon your craft.
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