Thriving in the Transformative Landscape of Project Execution with Ozias Sanchez, PMP

Episode Transcript
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Ozias Sanchez (00:00):
You got it, and that was kind of that's really
been a huge thing for me thispast year is my work with AI.
I mean, I used AI when I wasjob searching and it was really
up and coming because I startedjob searching in 2022.

(00:20):
That's when I was in this fivemonth like span 2022.
That's when I was in this fivemonth like span and um and and
so I used it for job searchingand then I started using it a
little more for projectmanagement.
I was kind of wondering, like,what kind of stuff can I, can I
do with this?
And and man, maybe this is aterrible thing to say, but, like
now I don't know what I woulddo without it because I use it

(00:42):
so much.

Inro/Outro (00:55):
Welcome to the PM Mastery Podcast.
This podcast is all abouthelping you master your project
management skills by sharingtips, tricks, tools and training
to get you to the next level,while sharing the stories of
other project managers on theirjourney in project management.
And now here's your host, waltSparling.

Walt Sparling (01:19):
Welcome everybody to the current edition of PM
Mastery, and today I have backOsias Sanchez.
Welcome back.
How are you all Good?
Good, so I know we chatted alittle bit before we got started
and some things have beenupdated since you were last on.
So, kind of looking back at thehistory, you achieved your PMP

(01:42):
in March of 23.
You came on the podcast inApril of 23.
And at that point we discussedhey, let's you know you were
doing some job searching and youdo a lot.
You help people with jobsearches and stuff like that.
So we had talked that we wouldcome back in a year and see
where you were at.
Well, then, in June of 23, yougot a new position and changed

(02:06):
jobs.
So I'm hoping tonight we cantalk a little bit about that
change.
And then some other discussionwe had was a little bit about
some differences in the old joband the new job related to the
PMO.
Maybe dabble in a little bit ofAI and do some lessons learned.

Yeah, that sounds like a plan to me, absolutely.
Tell us a little bit about yournew job.
So my new job is actuallyreally great and I didn't kind
of realize kind of the potentialthat project management had for
me when I went in.
I had been in health care mywhole life and when it comes to

(02:43):
health care and working withpatients, you always have to
work in the office, and soworking remotely was something I
never really considered beforeuntil I started getting into
project management and lookingat a bunch of different jobs and
seeing how many of them listedworking remotely as an option.
When I was working at the banklast year, I would work two days

(03:05):
in office and three days athome, which was fine.
I was okay with that.
But when I first went into theoffice, I got there on my first
day and I said, okay, so where'sthe rest of my team?
And they told me oh well, noone from your team actually
works in this office.
To which I replied so I'mcoming into the office to work

(03:25):
remotely.
Um, could you explain that tome?
And they gave me an answeralong the lines of well, you're
on raj's team and everyone underraj is two days in office three
days at home.
And it made me remember wait,isn't christy in pittsburgh?
Why doesn't she work here?
Oh well, she's.
She's an hour away, so shedoesn't have to come in.

(03:46):
So the rule only applies tosome people and not others.
And then it really got methinking wait, how do they even
know I'm coming in?
Because no one sees me here?
And I was messaging one of mycoworkers and she said oh well,
do you scan to get in thebuilding?
They're probably using that asa way to track whether you come
in or not, which was true.
I do scan and get going in thebuilding, but I don't scan to
get out.

(04:06):
And that's what I did.
So I would go in at 8am, scanand then walk right back out and
was never caught, but it wasstill quite a drive to get there
.
So I was still losing time thatway.
But the PMO at the bank was very, very rigid.
They try to come up with asystem that could basically turn

(04:26):
any person into a projectmanager, and that system
involved having a superstructured PMO where, whenever
something would happen, youwould have to follow a very
specific set of rules, and ittook any sort of creativity out
of project management Projectsall had to be managed the same
exact way, following the samerules, using the same program, a

(04:48):
program which, honestly, wasn'tvery intuitive to use either.
So it was very painful.
To manage projects that way,felt very unnatural, almost like
micromanaging, and so I knewthat this probably wasn't my
idea of kind of how I'denvisioned project management.
So I kind of started lookingfor other positions, even though

(05:11):
I had just gotten thererecently.
Some a lot of people wouldprobably kind of scoff at the
fact that I was like wow, youare looking for a position so
soon.
But the it kind of made me comeinto another sort of realization
when I was job searching forthe job after that, and that is
that when you look at a lot ofproject management jobs on
LinkedIn, what you'll see amajority of the time is, let's

(05:35):
say, an IT project managerinvolve knowing things like
coding and SQL and how to buildout servers and other things,
which is all IT related.
But really a lot of those jobdescriptions match like tech
leads, not necessarily ITproject managers.

(05:57):
Now, don't get me wrong Havingthat knowledge from IT can be
helpful, but I feel like there'sa very common misconception
that in order to manage projectsin a certain industry, you have
to be an expert in thatindustry as well.
And I don't think that'snecessarily accurate.
If you try to get you know anexpert IT person and tell them
to manage the project, that's adifferent set of skills and

(06:20):
maybe they'll be able to pull itoff.
But I know a lot of the ITpeople I work with.
If they try to manage theprojects I do, they would go
down in flames and that's not adig at them or anything, it's
just it's a different set ofskills.
So, and the reason I bring allthat up is because when we talk
about sets of skills withproject management, for me a lot

(06:41):
of what I do on my currentcompany day to day is really
creative problem solving.
I run into problems all thetime and I think about ways on
how I can mitigate them orprevent them from having,
prevent issues from happeningand make sure everyone's on
track.
And but when I go into a lot ofthe interviews, they wouldn't
ask me that they would ask metechnical questions.

(07:02):
They wouldn't ask me that theywould ask me technical questions
.
And so my interview with thecompany I'm working at now is
probably one of the bestinterviews I've had, because,
instead of asking me technicalquestions, they asked me
problem-solving questions.
My interviewer, who was my boss,told me okay, we've been
running projects on our team fora while.
We've run into a number ofdifferent scenarios when it

(07:25):
comes to our projects ordifferent problems when it comes
to your projects.
I'm going to give you thesescenarios and I want you to kind
of think and figure out how youwould, what conclusion you
would come to based on thisproblem and stuff, which is
honestly very stressful becauseyou're put on the spot.
He's like okay, this scenario,you got this vendor, you got
this happening.
What do you do with thesecontracts and stuff?

(07:45):
And I'm trying to think on thespot.
Really, I was like sweating,but it was also kind of fun too,
because I had never had aninterview like that before, and
so I was like go ahead.

No, I wanted to step back a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You made a point of the jobs or job descriptions
are written for technical.
Of the jobs or job descriptionsare written for technical and
PMs technically, if they'retrained as a PM and they've
learned that they can work inalmost any industry because
there's specific processes.
They're not all the same, butthere's.
You know the start and the endand there's certain things you
do in between the monitoring,controlling, communication.

(08:20):
All that Right Is I thinknowadays you see a lot more job
descriptions or titles calledproject manager and for the
industries that are newer ormore educated, they know that
they need a dedicated PM with acertain set of skills that can
manage a project, where, back inthe day, you would work your

(08:43):
way up from a tech position or adesign position and you would
become a PM because you had allthe technical or design
experience and you knew how todo all the stuff, and then you
would learn how to manage aschedule and a budget.
But the technical came first.
So I think a lot of thecompanies that were built that

(09:06):
way they still think well, youneed to be technical to come in
here and be a PM.
The smarter ones are the newer,maybe the educated ones or they
got new leadership in and going.
What we really need is someonewho can manage a project.
We have technical people thatcan answer those questions
Exactly, exactly right.

So really the only kind of issue running in
those situations is how kind ofhow good the technical people
are explaining it.
Sometimes I I got lucky with oneof my first IT projects that I
was working on and one of the IT, one of our techs she was
amazing at explaining it, superpatient, even when I asked, you

(09:48):
know, very like ignorantquestions like so what does this
do?
One more time, she was alwaysexplaining it.
But now I feel like a master atit and everything and I can
answer all of those questions.
It's just you just kind of likeand I don't know like you know
the nitty gritty of their job.
I'm like I just need to knowthe basic concepts what comes

(10:10):
after this, what comes afterthis, okay, cool, thank you, and
then you know getting there.
So sometimes you have goodteachers, sometimes that's so
good, but but yeah, no, yeah,it's a very good point.
It's like you know, I really Ireally wish these companies
would kind of recognize thatthis is a, you know, dedicated
set of skills that you, you canjust like hand off to people
once they've become a technicalexpert.
But anyway, the other.

The other thing I've seen more so, I'd say,
recently in some of theconversations I've had with
other folks in larger companiesis expectations and expectations
.
Like I know one group I wastalking to, they have these
people that were PMs back in theday and they did large projects

(10:53):
and they had a team.
So you know, I had your PM,your system PM, your project
coordinator, your projectaccountant, your project
controls, and they workedtogether as a team to do these
big projects.
Well, in a lot of the companiesnow you have a PM and that's it

(11:14):
, and that person is projectcontrols, project risk, project
schedule, project budget,project communication, project
court, I mean all, and they go,you know, back when I did
multimillion dollar projects, wedid this report and this report
and provided this on a weeklybasis and it's like, yeah, but
you did one $80 million project.
These folks are doing six, oneto $10 million projects.

Add all that up.

That's a lot of work.

And I'm glad you mentioned that because that
reminds me of something else Irun into a lot, or that I see a
lot work.
And you and I'm glad youmentioned that because that
reminds me of something else Irun into a lot, or that I see a
lot I should say is that, um,you have teams of projects
managers that feel very siloed,so to speak.
So when I was at the bank,there was like maybe like 10
other co-workers I had that wereproject managers, but we all

(12:02):
just manage our own projects andthat's kind of it Like we don't
.
There's not two projectmanagers to one project or
anything, unless for some sortof special circumstance.
And but what ends up happeningis like there was one one of my
coworkers.
I had to get something from him.
I can't even remember now, buthe's like, oh yeah, let me pull
that up.
And he pulls up this like Excelspreadsheet, that's like super

(12:23):
automated and has everything heneeds.
And I was like, whoa, where didyou get this?
And he said, oh, I just I madeit myself.
And I was thinking, do you knowhow many of our coworkers could
probably benefit from that?
So I don't.
I see a lot of PMOs with no,like knowledge sharing or
anything like that, and some ofus have some really great advice
.
Or for me, when I was workingwith one of my coworkers, they

(12:43):
saw me using ai and they're likewhoa, how are you doing all
this?
This is crazy.
And I was like, oh, you don'tuse this, like just me, okay.
So, and I didn't even kind oflike realize that that my
coworkers none of them use thator know about that and that I
could be helping them in thatway.
So, so yeah, when I that.

Yeah, when I first joined the company that I
was at recently, they the PMsall worked in silos and one of
the tasks that was given was toget them out of that, get them
to collaborate.
So it took a while, but over ayear or so we got everybody to
where they were now, workingtogether, supporting one another

(13:22):
, and then started sharing how,like this guy, like you said,
this guy was using thisspreadsheet, this one was using
this.
Now you know they're using,they're sharing, and then I
ended up creating a couple ofmaster files, because I'm like
terrible with math, soeverything's got to be in a
spreadsheet.
So I wrote this, this budgetsheet on steroids, and then when

(13:44):
some of my teammates saw it,they go oh, we want that.
And then eventually it grew andgrew and now people in other
regions are using it.
But it's like, if you don't andour PMO didn't create any of
that stuff, the PMs created iton their own and then would
share with each other.

And how would you kind of, for someone who is in
a PMO with a lot of siloedproject managers, what would you
kind of recommend to them tohelp?
You know, bring these peopletogether to help with knowledge
sharing and everything you think.
What would be your advice onthat?
Well?

one of the things is I would ask what people are
doing in each region.
How are you, how are you guys,managing your budgets?
How are you managing your, yourtemplates for RFPs or for risk?
Because I see a lot of that andthen go, okay, then send me all
those tools and take a look atthem and say how many people are

(14:34):
using a similar tool or thesame tool and go, you know what?
It turns out that I've talked to50 project managers and 15 of
them are using this spreadsheet.
Yeah, five are using thisspreadsheet.
Yeah, five are using somethingthey created on their own.
10 aren't using anything, andthen maybe have a like a PMO

(14:54):
training and talk about it, yeah, and ask questions.
You know what would help youwith your, with your job, like
with your budgets or with yourrisk?
Did you know that in anotherregion or in another office
they're using this spreadsheet?
You pop it up on the screen oh,I didn't even know that existed

(15:15):
, all right.
And then you start building.
Now you're always going to havethe naysayers.
They're going to be like no,I've been doing this stuff for
10 years.
I do not need to use any master, and I think the best way
unless it's a standardizedreporting thing where you have
to give it to a client orwhatever is give them
flexibility.
Don't require them to all useit Unless, like I said,

(15:39):
regulated or something but offerthat to them and then, over
time, when I think what you'llfind is, people will say I
really like it, but there's twothings that annoy the crap out
of me.
What are they?
If it's two things, we can fixit, because probably someone
else is annoyed by the samething.

Yeah, or you know , at the end of the day we're
all one person in one head andsomeone thinks they're doing
something the most efficient way, and then someone else says, oh
, there's a button you can pressthat does all that for you.
By the way, it's like, yes, Ishowed someone.

See, that was my.
That's my thing.
What I do, I'm always digginginto stuff and trying to find
ways.
I hate wasting time.
Yeah, I want stuff to beautomated, so I create tools and
standards and stuff, so itsaves me time, and then I share
it with other people.
I just did that the other day.
There's this, uh, a form thatwe've been required to do over
the last six months andeverybody's been manually going

(16:30):
in and doing stuff.
Well, I discovered that there'sa pop-up calculator built into
it that you can put in yournumbers and then hit the check
mark and it populates the cellfor you.
I showed that to someoneyesterday and they're like what
and if?
If you don't you know, if youdon't know, and you're just
scrambling through doing stuffif someone doesn't teach them

(16:51):
and that's what I think a PMO isfor is like standards, teaching
and training.
If you want your PMs to beproductive, you've got to train
them.

Yeah, and one of the trickiest parts too is that
a lot of project managementskills are soft skills.
It's not like, oh, let me teachyou these formulas and then
you're all good to go.
It's like you have to teachingsomeone how to, like, manage a
schedule or manage a budget orinteract with stakeholders.
It's not so black and white,and sometimes you kind of have
to experience it to get a reallygood handle.
Soft skills are harder to teachyeah, some people don't which

(17:28):
doesn't make them any lessimportant.
But, yes, sometimes it's likeyou, just you have.
I don't want to say you havethe mindset or you don't,
because you can learn in overtime, but it's not something you
learn in like a day or whatever.
But when you see people whohave that mindset, who have that
problem solving they're kind offiguring things out in their
head or there must be a betterway Then that's a really good

(17:49):
find when it comes to hiringsomeone and whatnot.

Yeah, because it's not just about the
spreadsheets or the your abilityto do good meeting minutes.
It's, it's a lot of things.
Like you said, the creativityand the thoughtfulness on stuff
is like you're doing a job andyou go hey, did you guys think
about this?
Oh, my God, no, what, why?

(18:14):
Why would you think about that?
Well, it happened to me on twoof my jobs.

And you know what's actually kind of funny is
me and my boss were jokingabout this.
Another I think another reallygood skill is being able to ask
the right questions as a projectmanager.
But sometimes I was telling myboss that sometimes I don't like
asking questions because I tellmyself if I ask this question,
I know what they're going to sayand it's going to be a lot more

(18:40):
work that I don't want to do, alot more work that I don't want
to do.
So it's just, but I care toomuch.
And so I just say, hey, did werenew our NDA this year, by the
way?
Oh no, we haven't.

Okay, well, now I've got to do that.
I think that scenario rightthere is you have learned from
experience and being burned,because one of the things is
lessons learned to be able to do.
That's why you've got to sharelessons learned.
You can't keep them in a siloeither.
Is you have seen that?
Oh, if I don't say anything,that's less work for me.

(19:16):
But inevitably, two monthsbefore the project's set to
close, you're, you're, you'rekind of rolling down the hill
and they go.
Hey, we never talked about this, and now that I'm seeing what
we're doing, we really need this.
Oh, change order, go back forapproval for accounting and
might be a schedule impact.
Why didn't you guys think aboutit in the beginning, like I did
, but I didn't want to sayanything.

Yeah, right Now you got to do that up front.
Exactly.
Or sometimes you might be like,well, this could be someone
else's problem, I don't mentionit, but I couldn't, I don't have
the heart to do it.
I'm like I gotta see it throughall the way.
So, um, use checklist.
Um, I don't use, I mean yeah Ido, but in small kind of pieces.

(20:01):
So when I enter my day I'm likethis is everything you need to
do for this day boom, boom, boom, boom, and then kind of keep it
miniature like that.
How?
do you so more of it that's moreof a like a task list, almost
like a task list.
Yeah, do you kind of do it overa longer?

period of time then Well, no, I'm thinking like
checklist.
For me it's like certainprocess, like in a scope
development or risk developmentor whatever.
I like to have a checklist ofgoing.
Did you think about this?
Did you think about this?
Did you contact these folks?
Did you, did you review this?

Yeah, okay, yeah, and that's a tickler for me to
go.

Oh God, you know, I would have never thought of
that if I hadn't looked at thechecklist.
I thought about all the otherstuff, but I missed two items.

Yeah, and that's true in that case.
Yeah, I do so like, for example, one project I'm currently work
on working on is technicallylike six mini projects that all
run the same format, and so Ihave the same kind of like
checklist for each one of themyeah, and I learn more along the
way, like you know.
One vendor asked like oh, whathappens if this and this occurs?

(21:04):
And I'm like that's a goodquestion.
I didn't think about that.
Add that to the checklist fornext time.
One vendor asked oh, whathappens if this and this occurs?
That's a good question.

I didn't think about that Add that to the
checklist for next time we callthose programs.
I have one PM that's phenomenalabout this.
She'll go in and she'll say,okay, I'm doing 10 different
sites I need to do, whether it'sa generator project or a
renovation furniture project orwhatever.
She'll look for commonalitiesand then she'll create a
spreadsheet that addresses allof those and then in all the

(21:30):
columns she'll put whether it'sa check, a yes or a no or a
dollar value or whatever so atany one time I can go into her
base program directory, call itup and see the status of every
site, because it's all in thatspreadsheet.
Where some people keep thatstuff.
You know I'm gonna keep thisone and this one, this one and
this one and I like.

(21:52):
It's like she started a processwhere whatever program one is,
everything from one, two, three,four and five are stored in a
master spreadsheet in programone and you just look for
commonalities.

So for this you're right, it's a program
that has many projects in it.
So for me it's like a programI'm temporarily managing but I
have to give it away to anotherdepartment because it
technically doesn't fall undermy department and I already know
that the first thing is nodepartment wants it because it's
extra, it's like extra work orwhatever.
So they're going to be likewell, we don't know how to run

(22:29):
this program, et cetera.
So I essentially had to write abook on how to run the whole
program, which took forever.
But after I made it like so nice, like there's links that will
take you to certain places, Ishow you how to do it.
There's a frequently askedquestion.
There's a frequently askedquestion, there's graphs,
there's glossaries, I was like,wow, I'm like this is really
nice.
Actually I'm really proud ofmyself.

(22:50):
So it shows you exactly how torun it.
So I think I'm like OK, thereis no room for this to mess up.
If you guys run this into theground, that's on you, because I
gave you everything you need.

So be careful, dad.
They come back and they go.
You know you gave us everythingexcept this.
We needed this and you didn'tinclude it in your book no right
.

And I was like, well, if there is a question you
have, let me know and then Ican add that there.
So you're correct.
But yeah, yeah, so.
So, no, it's um, it's a, it's agood go.
So, with a lot of the problemsI'm trying to remember, um, oh,
yeah.
So with the interview with mynew job, yeah, they gave me a
lot of problem scenarios and Ihad to kind of solve problems

(23:28):
and it was, it was stressful,but it was fun.
And you know, I I told him,okay, this is the answer I would
come down to, I would do anaddendum to the contract,
probably for this particularscenario.
What did you guys end up doing?
And you know, he said, yep,that's what we did too, good job
.
So I was like, okay, well,you've been there now coming up
on a year.

Yeah yeah so, of that interview, have you
encountered some of the itemsthat he asked you to walk
through?

so my, my team of project managers is kind of
interesting.
We sort of get a lot of randomprojects thrown at us.
It's not like a consistent oh.
We're always getting the samebuild a house type project or
anything.
So not the same exact scenariosthat he gave me, but the the,
that type of thinking and theproblem solving is is everything

(24:18):
that was in the interview.
So it was like it's gonna be ararity for me to say but the job
was a lot like how theinterview was described to me
and everything.
So there was like no surprises.
In that sense I was like, oh,this is exactly how you
described it.
So now the tricky part about myI guess, the projects that we

(24:39):
see is are you familiar with theconcept of VUCA?

Yeah, I don't think so I'm.
It's basically familiar yeah,it's v?

uca.
It's like basically a, a kindof a way of managing projects.
I have a lot of like v is foruh, oh gosh, now I'm gonna.
I forget.
V?
U is uncertainty, c is churn, ais ambiguity, but it's like
projects that have that aren'tvery definitive type of thing.
I think it started in themilitary, but my, my projects

(25:11):
have a lot of kind of likeuncertainty and ambiguity for
our team, and so I I thinkthat's a lot of fun because it
keeps things different everysingle day.
But then the con is that thingsare different every single day
and so you never know what toexpect.
One day is great, next day it'slike everything's on fire, and
so it's like what's going on?
But yeah, no, it's now.

(25:34):
I feel bad.
I forgot the original questionyou had asked me.
Now that I've been here a year,what was it again?

No, you answered it.
It was basically like he askedyou to walk through how you
would address scenarios and myquestion was during your project
execution, did you run intothose same scenarios?
Because usually when they askthem, they have a reason for it.

Yeah, that's true .
Yeah, so I never had the samescenarios, but same type of
thinking and same kind ofexpectations, but deep, and I
have this conversation all thetime with my boss and the head
of our PMO about.

They think I want to put in too much detail in
processes and I'm like, hey, Ithink certain processes need to
be spelled out.
The you know the part.
You're talking about thecreative thinking, and this is
my argument.
If those steps are sowell-defined that you can check
them off as you go, that freesyour brain up to be creative and

(26:34):
to think about stuff, becauseyou're not trying to remember
how do I do this.

Inro/Outro (26:39):
You know.

Go to the playbook, look up.
How do I do a contract?
What critical things do I needto sign and check off?
It's all right there.
Did I do that?
Did I do that?
Did I do that?
Yes, you don't have to rackyour brain going.
Oh my God, what are the fourthings I need to do?
That's right.
So now your brain's free to becreative.

And that's a concept in psychology called
micro decisions.
So our days are filled withhundreds of thousands of
decisions and the more you cankind of routine your life and
you don't have to actively thinkabout those things, the more
you have that mental energy toput towards other things, like
you mentioned, being creativeand stuff.
So I try to make my day reallyroutine same in the morning,

(27:19):
same in the afternoon that Idon't even have to consciously
think about it, I justautomatically do it, and then I
can save all my energy for doingthings at work and everything.

But put your workout and your work clothes
out the night before?

Yeah, you don't even have to think simple.

Put your cup by the coffee maker, you know.

Yeah, yeah.
And you said you like beingefficient.
So I wouldn't be surprised ifyou had that same type of
thinking.
And when you mentioned thedetail too, it's so funny
because I was thinking to myselfmyself oh gosh, I'm feeling
very attacked because my bosstells me the same thing.
He's like oh, you're like sodetailed.
And here's my defense, for it is.
For example, he might saysomething to me like oh, can you

(27:58):
create just a quick summary ofwhat's going on in the project
so I can give it to the vicepresident or whatever.
And I do go into a lot ofdetail there.
And the reason is I don't knowwhat the vice president does or
doesn't know.
So I know that the moment Idon't mention something, they're
gonna go.
Well, why didn't you mentionthis?
I'm like because I don't knowwhat you know, like maybe know a
lot more about the project Ididn't realize.
So I give him the detailedversion and I say you, you talk

(28:21):
with the vice president muchmore than me, you know what she
knows.
Take out those parts that sheknows and just bring it down.

So if you're not the final presenter, that is
good, because then they go.
Oh, they don't need to knowthis.

They don't need to know that.
Yes, exactly so.
Executive summary or bluff yeah, exactly right.
So I'm like so don't come forme for the details, because I
can't, I can't, no, but yeah, no, being very detail-oriented,
absolutely, I think that's.
That's good, I think anotherkind of big lesson for me
working in this, and I'm reallycurious to hear about your
experience as well, because I'verun into this all the time, I

(28:58):
feel.
But with the projects I manage,it's my expectations for what
people do almost have gone downso much.
For example, if someone tellsme that they're going to give me
a certain document on a certainday, my normal self would think
, okay, I will go ahead andexpect that.

(29:19):
But I've come to learn thatpeople don't even do that.
I'm like, weren't you supposedto give this to me yesterday?
Oh yeah, I got busy with otherthings and so now I don't even
expect to keep them at theirword and I can't tell if this is
an exception or the norm, orwhat is your experience been
with that?

Yes, we have dealt with that, and where I
work now we see it.
And I see it outside theindustry too.
I see it.
You know you order stuff foryour house or you know someone
to come and give you a quote, orwhatever.
I see it.
But at work I think there's anindustry issue, and it's not
just our industry, it'sindustry-wide, in multiple

(29:58):
industries, where people areunder-resourced or companies are
under-resourced and people mean, well, they want to do it by
then and they look at it likelike oh, yeah, that's a simple
thing.
It's going to take me fourhours to do that and they have
20 other people making that samerequest.
And then they get last minuteasks and you know something

(30:20):
happens.
And then you have to file anincident report or you have to
do a safety thing or a lastminute training comes up, and
then all of a sudden they'relike and they got no one to
share it with, so they fallbehind.
Yeah, um, we're going through athing now where a client is
saying or my boss is saying, hey, you set a date, it's in a
schedule, it's in a microsoftproject schedule, stick to that

(30:42):
date.
And like we just we just moveda meeting, an approval meeting
out a week.
He's's like why are you doingthat?
Well, the design drawings camein three days late.
The contractor's having someissues with getting pricing from
some of their subs.
It's going to take, you know,we're going to get it one week
ahead of the meeting, but weneed time to vet it and we're

(31:03):
working on, you know, 10 otherprojects.
We need to have that time.
Okay, well, in in the future,think about better about that.

Like well, yeah, okay we'll try, yeah, and if
it's, you know, if there's thiskind of kind of freak nature
accident, it's like, oh well,like the like weather slowed
down, supply stuff, so it's likeokay, that's kind of hard to
predict kind of thing, and andand that's even the's even the
worst part.
One thing you mentioned waslike oh well, this, you know, it

(31:31):
takes this person four hours todo this and they get behind
that way Some things I'm askingfor.
It takes like 30 seconds andI'm like, am I asking for too
much?
So so now I've come to thispoint where, like, if I ask
someone for something and theygive it to me on the day they
say they do, I'm like impressed,which is almost a shame in a
way.
I feel like I shouldn't beimpressed by that, but it's just

(31:52):
, I've grown into it so much.

Well, what is it?
There's the four quadrantEisenhower matrix where the
thing is what's important to you, what's critical, what's not
important?
That's all different for whatyou look at it.
What's critical, what's notimportant?
That's all different for whatyou look at it and what they
look at it.
So your request to them mighttake 30 seconds, but they have

(32:16):
had 10 other people ask them.
Another thing that's going totake 30 seconds, so they have to
choose which one.
I keep a running it's old schooltext pad up on the screen
because I don't want to have togo in and put a reminder in
Outlook or in OneNote.
I just throw it in a text fileand I save it.
And then the next day I open upthat same file and go okay,
what did I get done?

(32:36):
Oh, I did that.
Delete it Did that.
Oh, that one I have not done.
That's going to take me likefive minutes.
I'll move it to the top.
There you go, and I've stillgot stuff coming in.
But at least it's there and Ican say before, before I quit
which is about to happen I cango.
What have I left open that Ihaven't done?

Yeah, oh, and looking at this now, okay, I
have seen this.
I didn't know if that's what itwas called, so that's when?
Something new today, but butyeah, so so now, with now with,
uh, as the year's been going onand I've been using, and I
started using ai to help managemy projects and, like I told you

(33:18):
before, I thought it was sortof for me, since I use ai every
day, it's not really a big deal.
And then I start talking toeveryone and, like no one knows
what I'm talking about, they'relike, oh, I'm really intimidated
by that, how do you use it?
So I did like a a little kindof teaching session for my team
on how to use AI to help manageprojects and I kept it very like

(33:39):
simple, nothing super crazy.
And I was a little bit nervousat first because I was like,
okay, who here uses AI already?
And no one raises their hand.

So I'm like, okay , they don't think they use it,
so they do.

Yeah, they technically do, you're correct.
And so, after I go overeverything I've seen there, I'm
like, so does anyone have anyquestions?
And their response was wow,this is amazing.
Can you show us how to do morestuff with this?
This is really cool.
I'm like, oh, thank you, okay,so.

(34:14):
But then I started thinking,wait, so I'm using AI a lot.
I do project management all thetime.
Maybe there's this kind of inbetween where I can start
working with projects on AI andeverything, and that's what I've
kind of started to do recentlyor managing AI projects, because
that's now starting to be a bitof a passion for me.
So I've been studying a lotabout AI and, like I also told
you before, it's developing soquickly.

(34:36):
Each week there's a new thing?

Oh there is, it's insane.

AI can make pictures, now I can do voices,
now I can do video, and it'slike, okay, okay, let's get it
done.

We talked earlier before the show started, and we
were talking about Andy Kaufman.
So I interviewed him the end oflast year or not, no, end of
the previous year, no, it wasthe end of the last year and
that was my 50th episode andhe's phenomenal individual, big
in the project management space.
He has an awesome course andI'm going to post it it in the

(35:08):
show notes for today that it'svery inexpensive I think it's
like $50, and it goes into waymore detail and a lot more what
I would say useful than the PMIcourse that they offer.
So for anyone who's reallywanting to get in, that is a
great course to go through.

And it's a course on AI and project management.
Then yes.

So, andy, you need to go back and listen to
that episode.
I'll leave that in there too.
But he also created an AIpersona and he interviewed that
AI on a podcast and he createdthe voice that AI on a podcast.
And he created the voice.
He used different AI tools tobuild the AI and then

(35:56):
interviewed the AI and theneventually now this one I
haven't listened to we talkedabout it, but he had the AI
interview another AI and theyasked you know the one AI asked
questions?
The answer just like whenyou're doing AI.
And they asked you know the oneAI asked questions?
The answered AI.
You know, just like when you'redoing chat GDP or whatever chat
, you know whatever GDP softwareor AI software you use, there's

(36:16):
prompts and then the AIresponds.
So the AI was basicallyprompting the other AI and the
other AI was answering and itwas a whole interview.

Oh, to achieve what by chance.

Just to show what could be done with AI.

Huh, yeah, yeah, and that's yeah.
That's.
The best part is that it keepsdeveloping.
You keep trying to figure outnew things, and I had some
people ask me, well, like whatcan and cannot do?
And I'm like, well, that's thething, like, in a way, like, as
far as, as long as you'recreative, you can do almost like
anything you think of with it.
And now there's a new ai thisyear that I'm gonna get a hold

(36:54):
of, called um rabbit ai, and onething that it can do is like
you can teach it how to usecertain websites or programs.
So if it's not like on, if youtell it to get an uber and it
doesn't know what uber is, youcan teach how to use uber, so
that when you tell it get anuber, it's not like if you tell
it to get an Uber and it doesn'tknow what Uber is.
You can teach it how to useUber so that when you tell it to
get an Uber, it's like, oh, Iknow to click this, that your
home is here and do this, andlike, oh, I'm looking forward to

(37:15):
that.
We'll see, we'll see how itplays out, but yeah, so keeping
up to date with that and justfinding new ways to kind of just
make the process more efficient, and not just with project
management, but also just lifein general.
Um, I, uh, I like I will ask theAI to come up with like a
nutrition plan for me or aworkout plan for me, and it'll

(37:36):
give me, come up with lists andrecommendations and refine it
from there, like I've almostlike, implemented it and so many
different parts of my life,just because it's just, it saves
time, it's efficient, it getsme thinking, so it's uh, maybe
I'll.
Um, my, my most recent thingI'm going to start working on is
using ai to help, um, to helpwrite a book, and so I was like

(37:59):
okay, I want to be an author, Iwant to write my first book.
Did you use ai any when youco-authored your, your book?

no, that one was actually an old school.
It was an article I had writtenfor my own blog and never
published, so I just tweaked itand used it for the book.
There you go.
But I know people that do, andthere's a lot of about people
that do books with AI, becauseis it really?

Yeah, and you know, someone asked told me that
and I was thinking, wait asecond.
Every year, for, like you know,every few years for politics
you'll have the presidentialcampaign.
In each presidential candidatewill come out with their own
book and I'm like, but we knowthey don't write that, they have
a ghostwriter write that.

Inro/Outro (38:45):
But their name is put as the author.

So is that really their book or no, you know yeah
, there's a lot of debate overintellectual property and
because ai is basically theytake information that's out
there and they use it to.

So you could be publishing something that
someone put out there that maybeonly one or two people in the
world know, but somehow AI wasable to scrub it from wherever
and share it, and that's why ourcorporate where I work now
you're not allowed to use chatGDP.
They actually went out andlicensed.
They got their own engine fromI forgot the name of the company

(39:24):
that writes chat GDPp uh, openai, open ai.
And they license their ownversion and that version stays
on the on the company networkand you have to use that one.
Yeah, so that way it keeps theirintellectual property within
their network and and so that's.
That's a problem.
And, andy, when I interviewedhim, he was saying that he was

(39:45):
doing some research and he heprompted it right, asked for a
lot of stuff.
They came back with answers andit said provide quotes from the
material and what it did is itreferenced.
Hey, this article said this,and the AI interpreted something

(40:06):
and made it into a quotebecause he went back and
backchecked, which is one of thethings you start using AI.
You really got to be careful of.
He went back and backchecked.
Those quotes were not in thearticles.
Yeah, he told the AI that.

The.

AI said oh, we're so sorry, we'll correct it.
And they went back.
He did it again and they cameback with a different quote and
he said that is not in thearticle either.
And they said yes, it is.

Yeah, with ChatGPT, whenever it comes to
sourcing information, I alwayskeep like a very close eye on it
because it'll have AIhallucinations and it'll start
making things up.
So for that I'll actually useanother AI called perplexity,
and perplexity.
That AI specialty is being ableto reference information.
So if you ask it something,it'll say, hey, here's
everything I can tell you aboutthe topic and here's every

(41:00):
source that I use to getinformation on this topic and
you can click specifically thearticles and everything.
So, um.
So if I'm really doing a deepdive into research, it's
probably good for, like,students who are doing college
papers and everything.
Oh yeah, but um, but yeah, whenit comes to like asking type
tvd, where'd you get that?
I usually don't do that becauseit's not very good at telling

(41:22):
me where it's getting itsinformation.

I, I got it.
That is cool.
I've never heard of AIhallucinations.
I love that and that's a greattool to reference At some point,
though that you know they can.
We talked earlier too.
You can read stuff and you, ifyou do enough AI research and
prompting and you can almosttell when it's AI.

Inro/Outro (41:44):
Oh, that is so.

Especially if you know the person who created it,
because you go oh yeah, thereis no way you know their writing
style.

Yeah, two cents.
You didn't write this, just notwrite this.

They just need one to go okay show.
I want you to write thisarticle based on this term paper
and I need it to come out assomeone who's like a freshman
level college student.

So that you know they won't know.
And I was talking to one friendof mine who's uh, he's like you
know, I wanted to finish mydegree but I have to do these
papers.
I was like, oh, we'll just haveai like write the papers.
He's like, well, they, theyhave an ai checker, they'll just
double check with the ai.
And I was like, yeah, don'tcopy from the ai and paste it
into the thing.
You have access to an AIchecker as well.
You can run it through, see ifit detects it, edit it until you

(42:32):
know it sounds human enough andeverything.

But but yeah, you said it earlier, use it for
brainstorming, don't necessarilyuse it to do the best kind of
thing.

Having it to do your writing, I don't know.
I don't know if I'd recommendit, but brainstorming is
top-notch, always kind of,because it's always going to ask
you a question, return, andthen you'd be like, okay, and
then you know now that it hasreally good memory.
You can reference earlier intoyour projects and be like, hey,
do you remember so?
And so this stakeholder, how doyou recommend I engage with

(43:04):
them and everything.
Just it's just really reallygreat because you can give it
that context and it'll ideallyremember.
Sometimes it's when I've had todo memory stuff.
Sometimes it's good, sometimesit's, but it's improving, so
yeah.
So that's kind of the nextthing I've been working on
learning about, and then we'llkind of see how it advances,

(43:26):
even just a year from now tooabout, and then we'll kind of
see how it advances, even just ayear from now too.

So yeah, I would love to hear where you go with
that, because I I know that wasa focus for me this year and I
have not had a lot of time to goout and do that and I really
want to before this year is up.

So but honestly, hearing you explain it, you've
you still use it quite a bit andyou're pretty good with it too.
So I was worried that you hadlike never touched at all or
something like that.
So but no, that's not quite thecase.
No.

I played with it and I want to.
I want to do more because Idon't I don't do anything near
like I'm not doing all the stuffyou're doing.
Sure, I'm using it for somethings, but I really want to,
like you said earlier aboutusing it within project
management and I don't know ifit was part of the show or if it
was prior to the show but Andyhad given an example of using AI

(44:16):
to create a risk register andby prompting it with certain
things and then asking it toalso give that.
I said it earlier.

Also giving like mitigation strategies?

Yes, exactly, and the thing about that is that's
really part of the brainstormingaspect is because it will come
up with scenarios.
You go oh, you know, I didn'teven think of that.
Oh, that's a great risk rightthere.

Right, yeah, and that's a really good one,
especially maybe your slide thatthe project I had this year was
the first of its kind.
I didn't have a previousproject that I could look at and
be like, okay, this was theirlessons learned, this is what
went wrong.
I have no idea, because it'sthe first kind of its project,

(45:03):
so there's only going to be somuch that I can see, and the AI
has that experience.
Maybe it's with a certainindustry.
The AI might say something likeoh well, didn't you get that
SFTP server set up first?
I'm like, wait, what is that?
Tell me more about it.
And I can ask more about that.
So, yeah, no, the brainstormingis invaluable on seeing things

(45:26):
that you can't usually see, andthat's my favorite part is being
able to bounce ideas off ofpeople, and now I can do that
with the, the ai.
So, um, but yeah, I have to.
I'll have to try it out withthe risk, um, and everything as
well.
There's still things I haven'ttried, so that's one I'll have
to try.
What is the kind of risk?

you see, what do you recommend, and everything so
, yeah, I think I've, so I'veonly really used it for well.
My podcast write-ups after theinterviews are AI generated, and
then I go in and I tweak thingsbecause, like you said, some of
the language it's like oh,that's just too, that's too
formal or whatever, and knockout some stuff, change some

(46:05):
sentences.
But it does an awesome job atsummarizing a conversation and
that's really what I'm lookingfor.
Someone reads that and go yeah,that's worth listening to.
You know, based on thatparagraph or so.

What program do you use to record the transcript
for the podcast?

So I use something called Magic Mastering
through Buzzsprout.
It's an add-on service and Iused to do all my stuff.
I only used buzzsprout forhosting okay, and I used to use
otter AI for transcripts.
I used uh, I still use audacityfor editing the audio, okay,
and then I would feed it up toanother intermediate uh package

(46:47):
on um, a phonic.
It's a website and you wouldupload it there and it would do
the leveling.
So if someone was on the otherend, didn't have a good mic, and
no minds, I got a, I got a nicehigh quality mic.
Yeah, it would level it out.
Then I would take that andupload it to buzzsprout.
Buzzsprout, would, you know, dothe audio.

(47:09):
But at that point I had myfinal WAV file.
Now I do it in Audacity, justget it down to where I want it
with the words and the audio.
I upload that to Buzzsprout.
It does all the alphonic stuff,it does the transcript, it
creates the show notes, the top,the summary.
I do the show notes below andthen I proof the transcript to a

(47:32):
certain level, because you haveto tell it who it tells by
voices.
Yeah, I say this is the introand outro, this is me, this is
them, and then it automaticallyassigns.
I've had a couple there aresome where like it, and this
isn't a slam in any way, butforeign speaking sometimes are
hard because maybe English isnot their first language.

(47:54):
Yeah, and you can.
You can understand, though,what the AI struggles with it.

Yeah, the one, the one I I use sometimes, if
you're a little bit farther awayfrom the microphone, it thinks
it will be a different personand so I say, oh, who's this
third speaker?
I'm like no, that's, that's me,it's still the same, and so
that's where it's a littletricky.
That's why I was curious to askyou.
You said originally you usedOtter, ai Otter.

O-T-T-E-R and it has a tie-in to Zoom, but I
don't use it for transcriptshere, because I want it to be my
final transcript, because I'lledit out a lot of stuff.

Oh see, so that's why I'm asking.
I'm always like learning,trying to see what is other
people using that I may not haveheard about before, because
there's just so much out there.

So yeah, it's one of the things I don't like.
I don't do video unless someoneasks for it.
I've had a couple of people askfor it.
I'm like, well, you wasrecommended by John Connelly and
he still does those.

I was going to say I saw him use it.
Have you used it yourself?
How was it oh?

yeah, I've done three with it and those are live
, so you can't edit.
But my plan is to actually andI don't know why I haven't done
it, it's just time.
I guess I need to sit down.
I want to take the live streamsand do an audio-only version
and post them so people canlisten to them on the podcast

(49:29):
and then I can put in a shownotes link if you want to go
watch the video yeah, that'sreally and it just kind of goes
straight from the light.

Just take the audio straight from the live
stream.
No, editing.

Yeah, you can within the computer, like
audacity can take your inputfrom the computer audio out and
it just redirects it straightinto audacity and then it it
does the recording and then youjust clean up any outside edges
and I would upload it to uh, themagic mastering and let it do
its leveling and boom episode.

(50:03):
I wouldn't do, I don't knowthat.
I would do a transcript forthat.
One would have to see how it is.
Yeah, because we have sixpeople on there, so that's a lot
of people to go through andfigure out who's doing what, and
halfway through someone myvoice might change.
Oh, you got a seventh person.

Yeah, and here I was doing all my leveling
manually by myself and there wasa program that could do it for
me.

Oh, it's a and it's like I'll sit on the porch
sometimes and I'll, I'll smoke acigar and I'll sit on the porch
sometimes and I'll, I'll smokea cigar and I'll edit and I'll,
when I get done, I'll upload itto a funny who in the house get
a, get a drink, whatever comeout, and within five minutes
it's done and you just downloadthe final file and boom.

(50:49):
So I don't use it anymore.
But uh, the, the computationalstuff with them being able to
fix that and clean it up is sofast now.

Okay, yeah, and I got to get on it.
Someone, a friend and I arewanting to do a podcast and I
was like well, I don't know allthe programs you need, so I
guess, well, I just offered thisto Jeremiah because he's doing
one.

I'm sure he's going to kill it because he's
like a superstar, he's startinghis own.
Yeah, he's doing a live tonight.
Which is it?
Tonight he's interviewing Kayla, oh, okay.

Kayla McGuire.

He's also doing something on Saturday and I've
signed up for everything, butit's like trying to fit it in
the schedule.
But if you ever need anythingI've spent a lot of time
building up my platform for this.
Yeah, the software what I'vechanged to the hardware, the
whole deal.

My son-in-law is actually doing a podcast, so
I've been helping him uh, okay,so I did have one question do
you use a phantom supply powersupply for your microphone or
anything?

no, no, there's different.
Phantom Power is, if you have aLike, an XLR.
Yes, mine is a dual.
It can use USB or it can do thethe Phantom.

Power.

Yeah, I can't think of that Now I use the USB.
But I just bought a mixer firstmixer I've ever had and that
has a direct input for the SLRcable and it has like five other
inputs so you can plug yourphone into it, you can plug a
mic into it, you can plug outputfrom your computer into it,

(52:32):
output from your computer intoit, and then you can have, you
can re pre-record sound effectsand assign them to buttons and
then you could play that soundeffect.

I so I saw a mixer online and, if I remember
correctly, it was not cheap.

Was it was yours pretty pricey.
I think I paid two, two,something I don't remember
exactly because it wasn't recent.
It was like a month and a halfago and it's been sitting on my
desk.
I bought a stand for it and nowyou.
Now you just look at it allright, yeah, it's like this
someday, this thing's gonna beawesome, um but, Um.

(53:12):
But it's a, it's a task cam mixmask, mix cast for okay and
it's way more than I need.
But you know I'm trying tothink ahead if I'm going to
invest.

Yeah, because you cause um.
From how you describe it, itsounds like you can have like
multiple microphones pluggedinto it.

Yes, multiple inputs, not just microphones.
You can actually have phonesand computers and so lots of
options.
That uh more than I need, butit's a good uh, it's a good
starter.
If I'm going to, I don't wantto buy something in six months
that I go oh, I need somethingbigger or better or whatever.

Now, now you're the full on audio engineer, so,
yeah, I'll definitely have tohit you off later and be like
can you tell me a little bitmore about?

that?
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm glad to help if I can.
You know, I have templates andOneNote processes and all that
that.

I've written up which is like such a nice thing
for being a project manager youcan just use other projects in
your life.
It just comes natural.
And it's so funny because Ikind of take that skill for
granted.
And then I'm helping someonewith a project they're working
on and they're like dang, you'rereally good at this.
I'm like, yeah.

I do what do you do for a living.

Yeah, and I appreciate the compliment.
I don't mean that to throw downthe compliment, but I'm like
you know, it's not something Ithink like, oh, like.

I'm so good, I follow a lot.
It just comes naturally to me,just like you mentioned.
But yeah, well, this has beengreat.
We covered some good stuff,obviously dove into some AI.
I think we're going to probablyhave more conversations on that
as we go forward.
You're coming up on a year onyour job, so congratulations on
that.

Thank you.

And I think we covered some good stuff, stuff
I'm going to look up this.
Uh, fuka and uh and theperplexity of that ai
hallucinations think that was.
That was a new term.

I like that yeah, that's what I'll run into and
yeah, basically, when the aijust starts making things up
that aren't real, aren't true,so yeah, always, yeah, always,
keep an eye out for that.
Chatgpt can do that.
So, yeah, perplexity is areally good one for research.
Chatgpt is really great forbrainstorming and, yeah, it's
like some AIs are really good atjust doing certain tasks.

(55:24):
So I'm trying to kind of figureout what's good at doing what,
or what's better at doing what.

Yeah, I use ChatBox.
It chat box, it's uh, it's,it's chat gdp powered, but it's
a separate app.
It's a lot cheaper than chatgdp.
So the chat gdp I mean, ifyou're using it all the time, I
think it's what 20 bucks a monthyeah, so you get it.

You get access to gpt4, which is like the better
version, but you can also makeyour own gpts as well and so I
was looking at that.
I still am trying to find a wayto fit that kind of like into my
process.
Some people they created a onethat I'll use sometime is like a
synonym GPT where it's like, ifyou're writing, you're like,

(56:08):
hey, can you give me somesynonyms for this word and we'll
just give you a list straightout.
You don't have to, but italready knows to look for.
You don't have to like reallytell it, and so I'm still trying
to figure out how, how, like, Ican make my own GPT or what I
would even make.
But yeah, so there's somepotential to learn there with a
pro version that you get.

So what I'm going to do is in the show notes I'm
going to do kind of the normalstuff, tools.
So under the tools I'll put inperplexity, chat, chat, gdp chat
box.
Uh, look up the vuca, put thatin here and then you link to
your profile yeah, what was theother one?

you just said and then andy's course and the
episode where he interviewed ahomemade AI.

Yeah, that was pretty cool.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to that All right, sir.

This was fun.
I appreciate it, appreciate thetime, and I'll reach out if you
think of anything else, like atool you use or something you
have any good resources.
It'll probably be a week or twobefore I get this popped up.
I've got three interviews inthe next week.
I'm coming back, I'll get thisposted and so if you have
anything, I'll add it in theshow notes.

Okay, yeah, that sounds like a plan.
Thanks so much for meeting withme, bob.

Oh, appreciate it .
Thank you and for everyone else, we'll see you in the next
episode of PM Mastery.

Inro/Outro (57:40):
Thanks for listening to the PM Mastery podcast at
wwwpm-masterycom.
Be sure to subscribe in yourpodcast player.
Until next time, keep workingon your craft.

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