Sara Martinez: How to become an esthetician, sugarist, and lash artist.

This is the first episode of the PNW Beauty Pro podcast.
See the video version on Youtube

Hosted by Irina Groshina
Founder of  PNWBeautyPro,
Owner of Beautissima.

Our guest: Sara Martinez
Owner of Sugar Savy
Licensed Esthetician, Lash Artist, and Sugarist.

We will speak about Sara's path in the beauty industry - how and why to become an esthetician, choose a beauty school and find your first job in the beauty industry, along with how to start your beauty business.

Sara will share insight about beauty marketing on Google, Yelp, Groupon, and Instagram, as well as her favorite brands, training, and certifications.

You will learn how to handle demanding clients and maintain a Work-Life balance.

00:00 Wellcome to the first PNW Beauty Podcast
00:15 Guest introduction - Sara Martinez
01:50 Why become an esthetician?
03:45 How to choose a beauty school?
07:59 Gaps in beauty education
10:45 Work experience outside of the Beauty Industry
12:00 First job in the beauty industry   
14:26 Job burnout
22:24 Why did you start your own business?
25:20 Starting own beauty business - challenges.
25:20 Find the place for your beauty business.
26:40 Bussiness license for your beauty business.
28:08 How to find clients for your beauty business.
28:08 Beauty marketing: Google, Yelp, Groupon, and Instagram
29:30 Giveaways - are they working?
31:10 Discounts - are they worth it?
32:40 Services packages and bundles
34:20 How to handle difficult clients?
37:00 Most and least favorite beauty service
39:32 Can you recommend training and certifications?
43:00 What beauty brands do you recommend?
50:37 Work-Life balance

Let’s build a community together to network with fellow beauty artists and business owners in the Pacific Northwest!

SUBSCRIBE FOR FUTURE EVENTS

http://pnwbeauty.pro

Episode Transcript

Unknown (00:06):
Hi, everyone. My name is Irina, and this has been W
beauty pro podcast. Our firstguest is Seattle esthetician,
Sarah Martinez. Hi, Sarah.
Hi. This is one. I hope so.
So, Sarah, tell us more aboutwho you are. What do you do in

(00:29):
Seattle? As UDS addition?
Would you want to like how Ilike originally got into beauty?
Or did you want to know like,just like my first esthetician.
Just quickly introduce yourselfand then I'll, I got some
questions. Okay, cool.
Well, I originally grew up inabout two hours north of
Seattle. So in Mount Vernon.
Everyone knows is like the tuliptown. Okay, and then I graduated

(00:52):
high school there. And then Imoved down to, I would say some
image and then I went to BeautySchool, Evergreen beauty. They
had a Bellevue location. Andthen from then on, I kind of
worked around the greaterSeattle area for like the next
three years after that. And nowI'm in Lynwood, I have my own

(01:13):
business. So in doing that,that's like a short summary.
Okay, and what is your mainfocus? What services do
you do? It's kind of hardbecause I focus mainly on three
services. Definitely full bodysugaring is like my top tier,
quickest book keeps him busy themainly but I also do lash

(01:34):
extensions, and then lash liftsand eliminations.
Okay, and let's go back to thebeginning of your career. Okay.
Why did you decide to become anaesthetician?
I didn't really decide because Ididn't know it was a thing. A

(01:55):
lot of people don't know, anesthetician is even a job or
like a career. They mainly thinkof Oh, you're gonna wax people,
or you're gonna do hair. Likethat's pretty much anybody who
knows. No one knows that that. Ithink that was like in 20.
Because when I was in highschool, it was 2016. So I think
that was just about when thepeak of classic lashes were

(02:17):
starting to show up. Andsugaring was in Washington
State. And I didn't know eitherone of those were But
originally, a friend came overmy house, and she actually had
eyelash extensions. And I waslike, Ooh, what's that? She just
like talked about, I'm justlike, you can't take them off.
They're on there. It's kind ofcool. But then eventually, they
were telling me that it's a joband then it's more than it is.

(02:41):
And so then that's kind of how Igot started. But before that, I
would like wax my sister. She'dget stuck in the bathroom. I had
to help her all the time. And Itold her one day like, oh, like
when I'm not going to be here toget you unstuck from the wax or
anything. But eventually it waskind of funny that I now sugar
her. She's kind of like mylifetime client now.
Okay, your guinea pig? Yeah,definitely. guinea pig. Yeah,

(03:04):
that's how we started. He wasreally to the husband's friends.
Oh, totally. There's, you saidyou went to Evergreen? Yes. Why
evergreen?
Um, I think when I Googled likebeauty schools, that was like
the most promoted one offGoogle, it just always showed
up. But I also was lookingaround every area and roba but

(03:26):
really what brought me towardsever it was the quote or sorry
to Evergreen was it was theclosest one to some damage. So
there was a Bellevue location. Ilived in Spanish. It was like a
20 minute drive. I just startedlearning driving, so I didn't
want to drive too far away. AndMount Vernon to Everett would
have been crazy. And I justmoved to Savannah and show him
like Bellevue. That sounds good.
And I took a tour. And it was itseemed pretty cool. Like it feel

(03:46):
fun. You know, like, Okay, I'lldo it. This seems chill.
How wasthe school? I mean, all beauty
schools have their likelimitations on like, what kind
of supplies you get, anddefinitely you never know about
what you're setting up for.
Because there's such a variationof ages. It's people in

(04:06):
different stages of life. So itwas definitely like a rough
start. Just being in a roomfulof women all want to do the same
thing. And it's kind ofcompetitive, but everyone who
wanted to learn, but also nobodyknew it was there doing too. So
it was kind of chaotic, forsure. But I mean, at the end of
the day, like I passed my stateboards, I got it done. I mean,
I'm here, I'm licensed. Theytold me after two years, if you

(04:29):
saw, if you renew your license,you're gonna keep doing
esthetics. If you don't renew,after two years, you're gonna
end up doing something else,like I don't know, like, be
realtor, or have a whole notherbusiness or just be like a salon
owner or something. But I thinkyou'd have to have a license to
be sworn over. But I don't know.
That was kind of like what Iwas, like, interested in at the
time. So I told myself that if Iwas really into aesthetics, I'd

(04:50):
go back for masters. But I endedup just being perfectly capable.
I mean, luckily Washington Stateyou don't have to have a masters
to do lash lifts. I don'tCalifornia it kind of changes.
Oh, really? Oh, okay. I thinkthat I think it's a Dermaplaning
too. It gets more in depth.
Yeah. dermaplane I might bewrong, though. Don't quote me
on.
Yeah, no, here we can dodermaplane But not in every

(05:12):
state. Yeah, with estheticianlicense,
it's kind of weird. Becauselike, you could just cross a
line and do it. And they can'ttell you anything. But you never
know. It's always good to beknowledgeable of the licenses.
And do you keep in touch withany of students?
I think we started out with agroup of 22 Girls, okay. We

(05:35):
graduated with 12 it was it wasintense. Um, some people they
didn't like it. Some peopleswitch schools, some people just
dropped out or they couldn'tafford it or they had like life
situations like they just can'thave childcare. Some of them
went to like night school. But Ido. I don't keep in touch. I
just like definitely follow themon social media. I have reached
out to some of them. I thinkabout a year after one of them.

(05:58):
Her name was glam glow, glam andglow. Oh, no. She changed her
name. She's called lash futon.
She's in California. She's oneof the esthetician. She was like
one of the she was really intosocial media back in 2017. And
she actually did social mediafor I think the salon that she
got her lashes done at so shelearned about lashes through

(06:19):
that salon, and she did theirsocial media. And then she was
just kind of like, kind ofgatekeeping her info kind of
protecting her energy. But whenI talked to her, she was just
like, No, this is what I do. I'mtrying to do lashes I want to
get into skincare. So sheactually worked for that salon.
As an esthetician she had herown room. And then eventually
she moved on to live in Vegas.

(06:41):
And then she has her littlesalon called lash futon. She was
actually on a podcast. It wasreally interesting. Oh, she's
pretty successful.
Oh yeah, she's doing her ownthing. I think she did like lash
courses online too. But that waslike really early on before that
online. I think it was likebefore the pandemic she started
doing that, and selling herCorona. Like brand of lashes
stuff. But it was cool. Sheactually did lash lifts while we

(07:01):
were in school. And then nobodywas doing them because they
didn't have the products or itwasn't that one was pretty new.
Yeah, it was pretty, pretty new.
But who else did I keep in touchwith? I tried to keep in touch
with some of them. But some ofthem just like dipped out there.
They're not doing aesthetics.
It's kind of sad. I mean, we alldid hard labor in school. So you
would hope that they're stilldoing it. But I think some of

(07:23):
them just got the licenses tolearn. Because I didn't learn
about makeup until I got toesthetics school. Like I
couldn't wear makeup. I couldn'twear jeans. Like it was kind of
I think I heardsome statistic that just only
one out of five will will be inthis career. Wow. No, I did five
not sure in the class or likeafter they graduate? Um, I think

(07:45):
in a class. That's crazy. Itfeels about right.
And honestly, I think that wasthe most difficult thing was
finding a job after becausethere was
a little good there. Okay, herewe go. about school. What do you
think? Beauty Schools? I wouldphrase it weak sides, like what

(08:13):
they're liking? Oh, what's likein their room, in their in
education in their curriculum?
I think they're kind of limited.
Because there's a lot of like,things that some people don't
want to do. Like, I can't reallyexplain it that in depth. But if
you think about it, it'sdefinitely like they didn't have

(08:33):
lash tinting. I guess lastprinting is not FDA approved. So
they didn't want to teachanybody that because they didn't
want to get sued by somebody.
But now we have consent forms.
So it's like it shouldn't be abig deal. I have a client signed
consent form that they shouldthey should be able to train
people. And then I'm pretty surethey're brand that they're
supposed to provide in trainersin was like out of business like

(08:56):
they don't sell. And the samething was spray tanning. They
mentioned that there were theyhad the machine everything.
They're like, Yeah, we don'thave what's the word? We don't
have the product carrieranymore. They're out of
business. So we're not going toteach you guys I'm like, Well,
that was in the curriculum.
That's like so girl went onAmazon and bought the spray

(09:17):
tanning machine. And we justlearned how to spray tan from
the one girl doing it. It wasinteresting. It was actually
really cool because now everyoneknew how to spray tan weren't
certified, but it was reallycool. Definitely what they're
lacking is is just the rightlike what their top. I think
they're really gearing up peoplefor waxing and facials and kind
of setting them up to work forsomebody else which is super

(09:38):
discouraging, becausethat's true. It's because from
my experience, I think theyshould go a little deeper into
business deals. Maybe some ofcustomer service, definitely
customerservice. There's a lot of girls
I went to school with that hadno customer service experience
at all whether it's justrebooking your clients, making
sure they're buying the retailLike you're selling them, but it

(10:00):
was very like lackluster. Itwasn't something that would make
them be successful, even if theywork for somebody else. Yeah,
how to maintain this retentionwith the brand as well. And
that's a big important thing ifyou're working for yourself,
because how you're going tosurvive. If you don't know how
to talk to your client, it'simportant to rebook over two
weeks or three weeks, whichever,that is true. Yeah, so
definitely making sure they haveaccess to the services that they

(10:21):
can offer. But also definitelypreparing them for being in a
situation where what if a clientis injured, or like, there's a
lot of things that I think wereskimmed through quickly over,
because they tried to condenseit so much in the book, and it's
kind of once you're out there.
They're kind of just like, Okay,well, your boss is just gonna

(10:41):
retrain you. So we're not gonnaworry about that right now.
That's true. And talking aboutexperience. Have you worked
somewhere else besides beauty?
Yeah, I did. I mean, I workedfor my parents. They don't they
own their own business. Theykeep clean cars car detailing
for living. They were workingwith originally. What was it car
dealerships themselves, so theywould do the car dealerships

(11:03):
cars, but eventually they hadclients that would want the same
service. And then that's kind ofhow they branched off to like,
once they got on social media,they only do clientele work.
They haven't accepted a job froma car dealership very rarely.
It's really bad. But I learnedfrom them. And then I also
worked at Michaels. I did likestocking and cashiering. That

(11:23):
was fun. But I think the otherpart that I learned the most was
I worked at like a, what is itlike a retail clothing shop. I
worked at Van Heusen for alittle bit. But I was kind of
like a really good natural bornseller. So it was really easy.
So you got this customerservice. Yeah.
And I mean, I worked in anoutlet mall, where we get over
like a wave of Canadian tourism,and they not want to know the

(11:46):
prices, they want to know thesales like you have to be
prepared. So I kind of alreadyknew customer service, just
watching my parents and being inthat industry where you're the
only staff there and yourmanager is not going to help
you. So you gotta you gotta workon your own work on your toes.
And what was your first place towork at SS dition
for esthetician I worked atbenefit brow bar, I worked in

(12:09):
Redman at that Alta as a waslike a team member. I think they
call it a beauty advisor, whichmost of they didn't know any
beauty stuff. They kind of justlike the reps came in, and they
showed you and then they kind oflike, okay, we need to sell
eight mascaras today. And thenyou're just ringing people up.
But eventually, from there, onceI got licensed, they let me work

(12:32):
a better football roster, Iwould say benefit Bauer was my
first job. And that was veryhigh sales. I think they had
like a list of people calling into get services. And then mainly
they're like, You got to sell acertain amount by the end of the
week. What if you don't if youdon't you lose your hours? Or at
least or at least they didn't?
They didn't give you a shiftthat you wanted or like you kind

(12:53):
of like dipped on ships. Yeah,it's pretty stressful. And they
would take you aside and belike, Hey, you didn't sell a
lot. So we're just gonna giveyou this day. Unfortunately, we
can't afford it or somethinglike that. It was kind of a
does. It was it. I mean, youalready you're scared to do
brows. So then I'm gonna sell asmentioned product. I mean, it

(13:13):
was easy to sell for me. But asa new esthetician, I was just
trying to like, make sure thebrowser okay.
And and what was the next step?
Oh, after that I had a realclient had really great eyelash
extensions. And I learnedeyelash extensions is cool. But
it was like a one day course.
And they're like, take picturesof 10 models. Yeah, first of

(13:35):
mentioned five lashes on eacheye. And then you hear you got
your license. Yay. So I did likemaybe three clients out of my
house on my couch. And I wasfine. But I knew I could do
better. Obviously they weren'tthey were bad. I thought I had
some way there. Oh, god. Yeah.
But the client of mine, she gaveme her business card for a lash

(14:00):
place. I'm not gonna say theplace, okay. But I got that
business card. I interviewedwith them. And they seemed like
all stars and like, everything'sbe awesome. Like, I'm going to
be growing here. So I'm like,Okay, that's better than having
to sell my soul, you know, everyweek, you know, and then trying
to fight for the hours to waxbecause you got tipped at the
end of the day. And no, you canget your cash tips that day,

(14:23):
which I thought was kind ofcool. Oh, yeah. I mean, now you
just cash. I mean, I don't carenow. But back in the day, that
was cool. Like,I'll tell you right there.
I worked in the auto one formaybe like four months, but I
worked. I worked at least a yeardoing the other stuff. But I'm
pretty sure it was like itwasn't that long. I showed up
late a lot. So I had like oneday, or like if you were late

(14:45):
one more time, they're fired me.
Or I had to quit and I'm like,I'm gonna quit anyways. I'm
gonna do it again. Me, because Iwas crazy. I was doing like
three jobs while I was inschool. Mm hmm. So I would do
the Alta closing shift, whichwould be from like, I'd go to
school all day get get past, Iwould show up at altar at six. I
wouldn't leave until 10. Andthen I had about 20 minute

(15:07):
drive. And then I'd wake up atseven again to be in school
exactlyat eight sundown. Dude, I
did that it was I don't evenknow how I ended up. I was like,
90, I did it. Yeah. Yeah. So Iwas late all time. That's,
unfortunately, but I got out ofthat habit. I mean, I wake up
early. I'm ready.
Okay. And after that last placeyou got into your sugar plan.

(15:30):
Oh, yeah. Oh, my God, I see mybook. Okay, yeah. So when I left
the lash place, it was just Iwas very burnt out, like, so
burnt out at 21 that it was justunhealthy. I got super
depressed. I just didn't want todo that. Well, I was working
off. Well, first of all, it waskind of a stressful scenario, it

(15:51):
was a full service salon. Soyou're doing eyelash extensions,
you're doing waxing, you'redoing facials, you're doing
basically as much as you can.
Because it's like a one stopshop for the client, which is
great. But as an esthetician,you can burn yourself out,
especially if you want clientswho just want to make money, but
it was kind of an environmentwhere they kind of let you do
that for a little bit. And thenyou like, if you want more
money, you're only workingsurmount commission, you have to

(16:13):
work more days. So I toldmyself, like, Oh, I'll work six
days a week out, I'll makeenough money and then I'll save
up and maybe I'll move on orwhatever,
to make enough money. No.
And then I burned out. And thenit I think one of the employees
was catching on that I was goingto leave. They told the owner
before I got to and it was kindof awkward. But I wanted to take

(16:36):
my two weeks off. And she'slike, Okay, we'll talk later.
And I was very emotional. I waslike an emotional wreck. I was
just like, there's like breakingup with my boyfriend. It was
weird. I think I was because Iwas there for like two and a
half years. I was planning itwas like almost going to be
three years working there. Andhow many days it didn't work. I
started off at five days a week.
Okay, and then or no for, Ithink four and then it went to

(16:57):
four or five. And then by thetime I ended, it was six
and a how many I felt like Inever left. I lived there. How
many hours a day?
I think we showed our shift afull it was like eight, nine
hours and still not been ableto no money. No, I could
probably pay like two bills. Butmy husband race really supported
me throughout my whole career.

(17:20):
It was not easy. But I mean, itwas nice. I mean, I got to learn
everything you got experience.
Oh, yeah. Anywhere you go.
You're good experience. Yeah, Idefinitely did get a lot of
experience. But what about sugarbomb you? Okay, so I thought it
wasn't going to continue, likelashing. I thought I was like,
I'm not going to aestheticsanymore. So I took a semester or
I took a week off and I went toschool for a semester. And then

(17:42):
after that, I was like, You knowwhat, maybe I should try again.
I interviewed with at least fourto five different places. None
of them wanted to hire me.
Do you have a guess why?
They thought it was anexperience. I had no
certifications. I had no proofthat I could do eyelash
extension. I mean, I knew Icould but like none of them
wanted to hire me they wanted asugar a store. They wanted a

(18:02):
waxer and I was not good atneither of those at the time I
definitely good was lashes, Iwas mainly focused on classic
lash extension, tinting, andlash lifts. But at the time, I
felt like none of them wanted tohire an experienced person,
whether it was taking a risk, orthey wanted me to sign a non
compete and I'm not signing toone of those unless it was
reasonable. But sugar plum, thehiring manager contacted me

(18:23):
contacted me and she mentionedthat, um, like I just kind of
told her my story, and she waslike, You're gonna be fine here.
I'm like, really? Are you? I'mlike, Okay, I'm trusting you.
Like, I'm like, I really don'twant to do esthetics again,
because it was really scary.
After being burnt out that long.
I was really and then my noncompete was ridiculous. It was
like you can't work 40 mileswithin each location. And it was

(18:45):
in Seattle. It's like I couldn'twork it in Seattle. I couldn't
make a living like that. Howlong? I think it was a year
after quitting. Wow. Yeah. Sowhat you don't want me to work
at all? You're crazy. But everyplace that you work for asks you
to sign non compete agreement?
Yes.
Yeah, all of them did a benefitbrow bar was like 12 miles. I

(19:07):
think that's fair. That makessense. But it was her brow
waxing like, what do you thinkthat doesn't make like you can
do anything after like brow waxand you can get away with not
doing but I think it was justlike mandatory with their
company. The last place I workedat it was I think 30 miles or 40
miles between each location andit was in Greenland, Redman and

(19:29):
in downtown Chloroquine. And soI couldn't work anywhere. And
nobody wanted to hire me when Itold them that, because they
either didn't want to getinvolved, or they just didn't
trust my expertise. And it wasjust, I don't know, it sucked.
It was really depressing. ButShuguang contacted me. And I
went through their interviewprocess, I met their training
managers and I was like, okay,like, I'm going to do this. And

(19:53):
then it was fine. I was like,pretty much like, so busy. That
following I never made so muchmoney that summer, just Sure.
grain? Yeah, no, I was Ipartnered with another audit.
She was like my trainingpartner. She had worked for her
own already just doingextensions. And she goes, I
never made this much money in asummer, like, ever. And it was
just sugaring. And they had areally good, like a competitive,

(20:16):
a pricey, they really wanted tothey're very long, wanting to
make sure you live made alivable wage, and the training
was free. They just wanted toguarantee that could do it.
Because you have to be willingto sugar dudes, you know, you
have to be comfortable withsugar and everybody. Yeah, and I
was fine with that. I mean, ifthey trained me, well, that's
all I cared about. Like, if youcan train me, I don't care if
because I was so scared aboutbeing retrained and not knowing

(20:36):
what I was doing and being putin a situation where Oh, you
don't know how to do this? Well,you're just gonna find out when
you do it.
Yeah. Was it difficult? Like,yeah, get tired physically?
Oh, yeah. Because like who? Oh,definitely. Oh, definitely
sugar. So I would say after ayear of sugaring, I needed a
break. Yeah. And I asked forlike shorter schedules, and they
had a way around that they knewyour body would kind of start to

(20:59):
teeter off after two years. Sowhat was happening? My wrist
start getting inflamed. And thenmy shoulder. Definitely, it was
my shoulder a lot. nicer. Butluckily, they had health
insurance. I had, I've never hadhealth insurance. At least I did
when I was a kid. But they hadall the things set up so that if
I was having pain, that theywould short my schedule, we'd be

(21:21):
we'd be like on, like, I thinkit was light duty. We would have
light duty days, if it wasreally inflamed. What is light
duty? Basically, you'd only takelike for three clients, what is
not my duty, taking clients onthe hour, like 30 minute, 15
minute intervals, because theyput it off three minutes. And
how many hours a day. Thelongest days was eight or nine
hours. But that's not incounting like the 15 minutes. At

(21:44):
the end of the day. You got toclean your room about 15. Yeah,
those are long days. But thething I was working like Tuesday
to Thursday, those were only sixhour shifts. And I liked that.
And they made so much moneythere because I know that they
had a night crew and day crew.
So they were just rolling inestheticians going back and
forth. But it was so nice.

(22:05):
Everybody was so chill there.
And I had great trading. Iwouldn't I mean, their training
was like top tier. Go work forthem. Okay, they're also what
are they doing? Um, what is itwhen you like a franchise? Oh,
yeah, they're franchising theydo. And yeah, so if you want if
you want to invest, go context.

(22:26):
Why did you start your ownbusiness? Why didn't you stay
there? For example? Who?
Well, my my definitely, I lovesugary there. I would definitely
if I wasn't working for myself,I'd worked for them again. Okay,
you know, in a heartbeat.
Definitely. Just because theymade it so easy to schedule,
with your schedule. And theywere just a really good company
to work for. And I think whatreally got to me was that during

(22:47):
the pandemic, I got bored. Andalso, I was only working with
one other human. They had adoing a limited working. Yeah, I
wonder why he was so sad. Andthen they didn't want us to eat
together either. Because I'mlike, Oh, it's just sad to go
eat my car. Or I don't know. Butif I wasn't working there, I

(23:08):
definitely just I needed to addvariation to my day. Sugary all
day was great, but it was hardon my body. And I definitely
knew I could do extensions. Iknew I could do lash lifts. So
I'm like, hopefully I can do it.
So youdon't think you would be able to
do sugar in full time? Yeah, therest of
your life? I mean, not sugarpeople have just 16 I don't want

(23:31):
to it's not good idea. Butdefinitely I'll keep triggering.
I just wouldn't want to solelysugar because it's so hard on
your body. I mean, I'd have tolike shorten my schedule, like
three days a week or something.
I mean, I'd make good money.
It's fine if you only sugar,because it's only like 30
minutes appointment andyou do offer sugar in your
business. Oh, yeah, totally.
Okay, totally. Do you takebreaks from that? Or

(23:54):
sometimes I'll block out myschedule if my body's feeling
hurt. And that's another reasonwhy I work for myself. Okay,
because I if I'm not feelinggood, I definitely would just
like block the day off. Take abreath, stretch. Go to the
chiropractor. I went to thechiropractor last week. That was
fun. I've been waiting like twoyears. It's good.
I've never been it's good. It'sgood for

(24:15):
your back. I mean, I'm I'm usedto having a lot of pain because
of the sugaring, but it's goodto get a good quick all the
estheticians when they'reliterally shoulders,
especially who's lashingoh my god your lower back. Uh
huh. And not everybody that haslike the saddle chairs like I
have my South chair right nowbut
I don't think I like it much.
It's personal preference. Yeah,I like I would

(24:36):
like some people have backsupport. And some people have
like the little the flat ones.
ones. Yeah, those ones are cool.
I'm used to saddle chairsbecause I got customed to it was
like I use it. Well in sugar onewe didn't have no chairs in
there. So we're standing forlike meat ourselves a lot. I got
actually a supportive Mattrecommend to get one. When

(24:58):
you're standing a lot. It's likethe you know In the back and
like the kitchen, there's likethe standing mats where you
wash. So I just bought one ofthose and put it on one side.
This is how you're totally okay.
And you get another one forother side, but I want to test
out the first one. Make sure itlasts long enough.
Okay, that's interesting. Neverseen it. Yeah, it's good to get.

(25:18):
So it was it difficult to starton yon?
Oh, definitely. Was itespecially. I mean, I had
clients from Ballard, who hadsaw me and Ballard so I had lash
clients, but obviously it wasn'tenough to have any overhead like
any enough to like No, you'reright, huh. You're in Lynwood.
Yeah. Lynwoodat the ultimate slot studios,
they just got bought out bymosaic. So now they're going to

(25:39):
be called Ultimate sauce videos.
But there was an old my owncouple actually trained in my
room with what was it MackenzieGraham. She was in that very
room. And I train there, and thegirl who had that she was
currently renting there. Sheactually trained with her to in

(26:03):
that room, too. And so I foundher through Manila girl. She was
really nice. Okay. And she wastrying to break release. And I
was like, I'll take it. I don'tneed to roomy. I'll take it.
What else do you need to startyour business? Obviously, to
find a place?
That was the first thing findinga place and making sure I could

(26:23):
afford it? Because I think atthe time, I was paying like 500
a month. It was it was okay. IfI had it for what for the whole
month of renting for boothreading because I was booth
reading in last year micro.
Okay. Eventually, just just abit. Yeah, I had my own bed.
Yeah. Okay. She had her bestbuy. I was like, I'm at my own.
Okay.

(26:45):
So, do you need any businesslicense?
Oh, yeah, we're have to Oh, myGod, you can get lost on that
website for the business likesets. It's so confusing. I had
to like, I think what I ended updoing was, I wrote a list down
on my phone notes. And justlike, look, what do I need? And

(27:05):
then I asked my brother becausehe's know so much about making
like LLCs and like businesses,he's he's done a lot of like
side businesses. I'm like, okay,am I doing this right? And he's
like, Yeah, you went to thetrademark place. First. I think
it's called, I don't know whatit's called. Something
trademark. I don't know. You gothere. And from there, you do
like it's, it's exhausting. Butthen Wednesday, wood, she's a

(27:29):
wicked lash aesthetics. She hasa salon checkbook. So it shows a
list of what you need.
Obviously, it's based for Texas.
But it's the same crap. Wedon't have anything like that in
Washington State. A checklistlike that. Yeah. It was
like a little ebook. It wasfree. I think it was free. It
was like on her email orsomething. But no, I don't know

(27:51):
of any esthetician is actuallylaid out actually one of my
friends on Nani aesthetics wastribal aesthetics. She must be
just like, Am I doing everythingright? Like I think so. But
don't quote me. Okay. You haveto double check yourself. So
how do you find clients?
Oh clients oof, referrals.
Referrals will save your butt orword of mouth will be your best

(28:14):
moneymaker. Obviously, you haveto touch the three tiers Google,
Yelp. I mean, I didn't want toYelp for the longest time. Yelp
was my last my last year I thinkyelps the mafia. Okay. So
you do have good experience withYelp.
I just know they're bad. Justbecause people who have are not
verified customers, they canthey can leave review reviews.

(28:37):
So if someone has a hate foryou, they could leave you should
review andit probably can happen anywhere.
To Yes, I just don't like Yelpbecause of the way that they
advertise businesses. It's justnot I don't think it's a good
plot. No, it doesn't set you upfor success. It makes you want
to spend more money. But itdoesn't make sense. Because if

(28:59):
you're starting out you don'thave much money. Yes, I would
rather invest in Google orFacebook. Google ads. Yeah, I
don't I don't like Instagram adsanymore.
I mean, I was going to ask aboutInstagram why not? I think
like the promoting thing it canwork for temporary like if you
have like one post but I thinkunless you're doing a giveaway
you can do the same thingwithout paying it's it's all

(29:21):
hashtags I feel like but it alsodepends what you're advertising
because I know some people ifyou have like a really good deal
get a lot of clients so youthink giveaway works. What my
way giveaway giveaway I thinkgiveaway works. Yeah, you get a
lot of people refer you what alocal people. Unfortunately, I
had a bunch of people from mysister's church. Okay, they all

(29:45):
call me they call me to all thepeople and it sucks because like
they they don't really live inthe area. They live like, like
closer to Seattle. So it's like,hard to get them in. But I mean,
at least they know me. Theyfollow me to follow for follow
up. All right.
What about Groupon have yourtriangle Oh yeah,
Groupon, I love haterelationship with Groupon. Okay,
Groupon is intense. You it isnot for the light hearted

(30:07):
artist. What do you mean? Justin general setting yourself up
on Groupon, it is basically likeyou are very much discounting
your services, but also to apoint where you aren't making
any money. If not, you're verymaking the bare minimum, like
you're barely covering yourcosts. Even if you're doing I

(30:29):
would not do lash extensions. Iwould. I mean, as long as your
timing is very time, I wouldonly do like a 25 to 30 minute
service. I would not offeranything more because it is such
a so if you're not making money,so what's the point? The point
of the Groupon? Yeah, that'sthey they cover so many people
and they have so many people,Groupon, like so many. I mean, I

(30:50):
was on Groupon shoot. And itjust covers a lot of clientele
very quickly, without having toput in money, at least a lot of
money down. I mean, you'relosing money. If you're doing it
but bad. Youthink that it's a good way to
build your clientele. So totallywhen you're starting out? Yeah,
I think it is. You just have toknow what you're doing. I went

(31:12):
to what was it? The secrets ofestheticians. They have a
Facebook group. And then theyalso have it's like a woman
named Libby's last account, Ican't remember the name. But if
you look up ticketsestheticians, she has a it's
called 100k to something, but Ican't remember it. But the whole

(31:33):
point is like wax into 100k. Andit's geared for waxers for
resilience. And she has a wholesegment on Groupon, on how to
use it well, to your like thesqueeze the crap out of your
Groupon just get the most out ofit without having to invest too
much more money on how to dothat quick service. Make sure
it's a quick service. Okay. Anddefinitely make sure you have

(31:56):
consent forms, make sureeverybody has a cc on file.
Number one thing and then also Iwould recommend that you have
your referrals and your militarydiscount student discounts,
whatever, what do you ever youwant to run? It's already on
your website, people can see it,and you're communicating to your
client like, Okay, let's get youbooked. Like, you have to be on
your feet and prepared becauseyou're gonna have clients who

(32:18):
are hesitant to rebook becausethey're kind of there for the
deal. Yeah. And also, what I dois a pre booking discount. So
let's say I see you for service.
Okay, let's get you down thebooks. Let's do like $5 $10,
whatever you want you can dojust for pre booking that day,
making sure they're getting thatin booking it in, they get a
discount. So it's an incentive.

(32:38):
Okay, well, what about packages?
Is it a good idea?
If you can afford it, becausesome people don't want to
invest? Like when they hear wordpackage, like, Oh, I'm going to
spend a lot of money on otherpeople. They hear packaging,
like, oh, yeah, well, well, howmuch is the package? So I think
I did like three packs. And Idid a buy one get one thing. So
like, Hey, you buy my threepack? You can get a free What is

(32:59):
it a free? Another free? I thinkI did get certificate like you
get a gift certificate for thesame amount for the one service.
So it was like you buy when youget so technically it was a four
pack. Okay, yeah, that's prettysimple.
So you would still recommendGroupon?
Oh, I would. But I woulddefinitely mentally prepare
yourself to have a wild timebecause you're gonna have

(33:21):
amazing clients. And then you'regonna have these random people
who are just, you're just like,unsure if they liked it, you're
unsure if they'll rebook, butyou're there. It's just you just
get the whole shebang ofclients. So you have to be
mentally prepared and likeprotect your energy. You know,
someday we're gonna be reallypicky. So we were going to be
like, if you've been in theindustry, you'll be fine. But if

(33:43):
you're totally new, like at aschool taking Groupon, you're
gonna have the worst time.
You're just gonna like, it'd beoverwhelming, but I mean, adult
people. So it's, it's prettyeasy. I mean, I did Groupon
facials, back in the day. Okay.
Plum facials, I think it waslike 50 bucks. 40 bucks. That
was interesting. Nobody boughtanything. I mean, the people
that did, they got great skin.
But that was buddy. Yeah, thatwas the group on I think that's

(34:04):
where I learned how to handle alot of customer services, just
handling Groupon, because youget so many different kinds of
people, all ages, allbackgrounds, and it kind of just
get you down in the dirt. Youknow, like, get you're really
dealing with people.
Do you have any recommendationshow to handle difficult clients,

(34:25):
or definitely have the patienceof an angel?
I mean, you have to haveeverything, you have
to have a lot of patience,especially when you're taking
clients. I had a clientyesterday call me and she
couldn't book an appointmentonline. She could not figure it
out, like in our heads like it'seasy open the website, you click
the button, but some clients,they're not going to be able to

(34:47):
access that and they want tobook over the phone. So you have
to be prepared and have thepatience to answer the phone and
give a good customer service andnot sound rude or annoyed. Like
you have to be nice toeverybody. I treat everybody as
if they were my family member.
Mm. So I feel like that's a goodway to treat everybody good. But
also, I learned this really hardway is that you to protect your
energy. Don't let people takeadvantage of you, especially

(35:08):
just employees, anybody don'tlet anybody tell you, you're
doing something wrong. Becauseif they're coming a few for a
service, that means they'repaying you for your expertise.
And they if they don't like whatyou do that's on them, but you
can't let people bossing around.
I've had so many clients try tomanipulate me to like, take them

(35:28):
for their full service that theylike, showed up play or
manipulate me that they needmore time on their lashes or
something or just manipulate meon just random things. And it's,
it's scary. Because like, it'slike a fully grown adult woman
tell it like bullying you.
Like, how do I deal with it? Andit's scary. Sugar poems, like
control your room. And it'strue, you should control your

(35:50):
room. It's your room, it's yourbusiness.
What if someone is really trulyunhappy with the
service? I mean, it depends onyour policies. Some people don't
use refunds my policy, I thinkit's case by case for sure. I
try not to do refunds on lashservices, because I've already
invested with the materials onsome. I just like okay, well

(36:12):
we'll try to make it work. Itried to give myself 48 hours
after to make it up whether theywant another free service or
they don't know their sugaringwasn't that great so I'm they're
gonna come in next week or Idon't know their lash lifted and
lift so or something. I mean,hardly doubt that my lashes.
But still Ashley, sir,they're gonna go yeah, they can.
They can befinicky. So whatever, whatever
they did only,definitely, depending that if

(36:35):
they're doing it live, just doit again. That days. Fine. But
then again,I mean, you have to be
experienced do that. Yeah,that's true. So
why would just wait until thenext month? But I remember I
would just not I would neverhave a client that is unhappy
pay. That's kind of my plot.
Unless I know I did a good job.

(36:56):
That's why extensions. I don'tget refunds because like, I know
them lashes are all there.
You're pretty confident. Yeah.
What is your most favoriteservice? And what is the least
favorite service?
I think it changes every year,or like my moods seasonally.
Like right now lash lifts forsure. Lash lifts? laminations.
They haven't done a lot ofthat's a favorite.

(37:18):
Favorite. Yeah, right now lashlifts. But technically my all
three are everything. Sosugaring lash lifts and
extensions. The extensions arethe last ones because it makes
my brain work. Like sochallenging because you have to
learn with the humidity, theglue the curls and all that. So
definitely i i love sugaring,but lash lifts. Ooh, they're so
fun. I just have fun. I couldtalk about them all day. We'll

(37:42):
be here all day.
I know what's your leastfavorite service?
Ooh, what do I not like to do? Idon't like waxing. So I don't
watch. If I don't What do youlike sugaring? You know,
I love sugary. If I got carpaltunnel, I'd go learn how to wax.
But I love to green. There'slike no way you could hurt

(38:03):
someone unless you really don'tknow what you're doing. Because
I've been triggered by somebodythat they didn't know what they
were doing and it That was notfun.
Okay. What about chemical peels?
Oh god. Yeah, no, you hate now.
I can't do chemical peelsbecause when I was originally
working for the lab first secondgonna be my second job. They

(38:24):
kind of just set me up with likea what is it like a level one
pill? And I had level two peelssuperficial. Yeah, the
superficial ones. I think it waslike a lactic alpha hydroxy may
be a glycolic. It was like areally more natural base brand.
I mean, I liked the brand, but Iam terrified to do them because
I had so I had Groupon clientscome in and they want the peel.

(38:45):
I don't really know if they wereusing stuff but Okay, have you
ever messed up?
I'll totally, totally mess up. Imean, I don't know. Because
like, I don't remember what Idid. But if I but if you go read
the review their bed. Yeah,definitely. I've had terrible
reviews about like peels. It'sscary. I mean, if you're not

(39:06):
trained, what are you doingdoing them? I mean, I mean,
yeah, you think it's prettysimple that you lay it on the
skin. But yeah, I definitelydon't like appeals. If I were to
go back into skin though, Iwould definitely retrain. I want
to just like extensions. I'dwant to retrain with a company
or someone I would trustsomebody that can say you can do
this peel. You're not going toburn anybody because I've heard

(39:27):
people I've forgotten. It's justso scary.
And talking about trainings,certifications. What would you
recommend from your experience?
Where to go to get trained?
That's hard. I mean, I would saydefinitely sugar and go get
trained at Sugar Plum. But theyusually require you work for

(39:49):
them for at least a solid yearand some people don't want a
year. So tamaraws That's what Itrained with a woman she's
called SassaFrass salon inSeattle. She was amazing. I
retrained with her while I wasworking at Sugar Plum. And she
caught on that I was alreadystarting to do things wrong
incorrectly, or just going tosome weird stuff and she's like,

(40:12):
Yeah, you're gonna hurt yourbody doing this. So she
corrected me with a lot of thethings that I wasn't paying
attention to. Okay, Iwent to Vaughn lash leafs, lash
lifts. I don't know who does.
It might be online.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes.
Usually, the lash mother. Okay.
She's awesome. She's, what isit? The beauty shop. She's from

(40:33):
Canada. She's a Toronto law.
That's like the best one outthere. I don't think I could
find another one. That's just asgood. I know that Wednesday,
wood has her lash lift. You justcame out with the lash lift
course. But once you do a Ulicourse like, holy crap, you
don't need to look back. It'svery in depth. It was like
learning lash extensions. Butwith lash lifts. It was intense.
I shapes I texture, chemicals,and then ever you can work with

(40:56):
any brand after that. Basically,I mean, I still kind of want to
take le bonnet and see what wasup with that. But I don't know.
I don't know. We'llsee what it is. What about
extensions? Sue? It has to be inperson. Yeah, definitely were in
Seattle.
I feel like I don't know. I'm,you should be learning lashes in

(41:19):
person. But if you really can'tafford in person, they're
expensive.
They're X.
Oh my god. I'm very excited. Ithink I've the cheapest one I
see was like $500. And it wasadvertised in like downtown
Seattle. And like, it was justlike a random company random
girl just like I'm gonna cometrain people. And it was
intense, but they're expensive.
I think the first one I paid forwas 1700. With McKenzie. I think

(41:41):
it was 1700 or something likethat. I remember. It was worth
it. I got cool tools. I got newbrands introduced to my brain
like it was good. I mean, it wasmy first volume course I've
never taken volume. I only knewclassics, one to one. And I had
only done classics for three,four years straight and took a
break for two years. Sosugaring. So when I took her
volume class, I was hella rusty.

(42:04):
But I still knew placement. LikeI still knew how to isolate.
Well, I feel like it was stillgood. I just needed a really,
you got to hammer down on yourpractice when you're learning
extensions. Who else did I trainwith? Oh, Cassie, from lash
loft. She doesn't like a volume.
I think I really did like that.
That was a really good training.
It was really thorough. She hasabout seven years of experience.
I'm just working with all thebrands, she's taken all the

(42:26):
classes. Okay. And she hostsshe's hosting a GAO revolution
lash next month. I wish I couldtake it but I mean, you gotta
save up, you're gonna knoweverything I know. But I just
would love to learn. It's good.
I just get really excited aboutlearning what people know.
Because it's not just like, Idon't like learning from like

(42:47):
big brands, or they kind ofteach the basics super quickly.
But definitely, if you can findsomeone that's already taken
those courses, it's just asenriching you know, it's just as
like, You got to follow makesure you use it with the vibe to
talking about brands, whatbrands would you recommend for
extensions, lifts, tensions,lifts, maybe sugaring.

(43:10):
Triggering sugaring right now? Iknow you can. I think I like
tamaraws The most Alexandria'ssupposed to be super fancy.
Okay. i But their training isexpensive.
So you have to be trained to buynone
to be a buy any of them. Andthat was very difficult because
sometimes, if you don't have asugaring certificate, you can't

(43:31):
buy sugar. So how are we goingto learn? I remember I bought
sugar from a lady from sugarbeauty lounge. I bought it right
before this. I had like fourtubs. And then by the end of it,
I went to rebuy again. And thenlike I was just more here like
Oh, that sucks. I was planningto buy more. I didn't need it
certificate.
Yeah. And that's prettyexpensive, even more expensive
than extensions. Vacation forcertification

(43:54):
for cameras was only 700. Ireally, it was 500 for the
training and 350 for the kit andit's like a full kit. That kit
lasted me forever. Sugar lastsforever. Okay. I mean, unless it
was usually it doesn't go bythough. What about lash lifts?
Lash lifts? Um, we're trainingon products? My lamination for

(44:14):
sure. Le Bonna. The Pro fusion?
Definitely the pro version. It'sgentle. It's easier to work with
and it's not as like fast. Ifeel like it gives you if you're
a beginner, it gives us timedefinitely Ruthie Bell. Oh my
god. Yeah, I told you. You weretold you're the first one. Tell
me about that. And I was like,You're crazy. I'm like, You're
crazy. Irina, what are youtalking about some random brand
from Europe. I'm like, okay,whatever. And then I looked it

(44:36):
up like holy shit, and then theyhave organic, rashly. Yeah. And
they don't have the sodiumbromate or any of that crap.
Very gentle is very hard was theother one.
The last regime President wastrying Inle okay, and that was a
really good brand too. And thenif we're talking about shields
as a path of a knock everyoneelse, at least to start at least

(44:59):
that's is your favorite i Yeah,Managua big North Shields are my
failure and Lee Do you mostlyuse them? Yeah, I use them they
work for everybody's eye shapeand their curl but in Lee and
cat the binocs shields are myfavorite and then the beauty
house shop that's where I buyall my stuff for lash lifting
solely. I've also bought in fromabsolute beauty They're the only

(45:21):
people that let me buy in Lee inthe United States. I could buy
from the same company but theysay Canada only and I'm like,
Why isn't only Canada? Here? Ah,I think it's like something you
would like someone lies in somesouthern to do with like,
whatever who's in what is it thebest franchise? I don't know.
Whoever's wholesaling. It's likea limit. My Okay, fine. I won't
buy from one place. That's fine.

(45:42):
What about extensions?
All extensions. Yikes.
Jamie February.
McCollum out don't use JB Okay.
borboleta is okay to start offwith. I haven't tried them, but
I know they're prettyaffordable. Think I tried. I
remember the place I worked atthey used minkeys Never heard of
them. whatsoever. And glue glueright now lash balm. The green

(46:07):
cap. The it's like a fusion one.
It works really good. Tweezerstweezers. By volume mega volume
tweezers is bumbum lashes. Sothat's the lady in Millcreek.
It's called lash loft. She'samazing. She has her brand of
volunteers. I keep buying them.
I dropped him like twicealready. I'm super mad at

(46:27):
myself. But it's fine. I'mexpensive. No, they're not.
They're like 35 bucks. No,they've been pretty average. I
mean, if I buy from lash box LA,they're pretty expensive,
especially with the shipping.
But I'm still trying to findsomeone that sells less bucks.
La I know there's lady inSeattle and I know they're the
lady in like ordering Culinariathen I'm trying to buy from like

(46:50):
those people who alreadybuy locals better extensions. So
definitely last bucks away. ButI'm replacing all my mega
volumes with lash lash loftright now. I love her lashes.
They're very similar to lash boxLA. I wouldn't say they're like,
I don't know. It depends onlike, if like people's like, I

(47:12):
want a really dense set orsomething like they're like the
lashes are super dense orsomething but I can't tell the
difference. I just liked the waythey pick up. Lash box la it's
kind of like hit or miss. LikeI'll pick up some trays and
they'll just be like, it's kindof like I'm going through trays
because I'm like picking atthem. I don't know it was me.
But lunchbox la then bumbum lashis great. And then what else?

(47:36):
She what's her name? DesignerPro classic lashes. I liked her
classic lashes. For only the 0.2oz. Yeah. That very thin
classics. Yeah, I think you'vetried the other ones. Yeah. Are
you hopeful about those? I thinkthat's it for lashes. I've been
wanting to try Maven. I don'tknow.
Do you have a list of brands ofproducts that you would

(48:02):
recommend to avoid buying?
Definitely. What did I not like?
How about supplies from Amazon?
I actually have kids from Amazonas glue. Yeah, I am whatever.
Yeah,I think I was not a fan of the
SOCO lash glue. But that wasbecause I was, I think too quick

(48:22):
for it. And it's like a slower.
It's a slower drying. So gluesit says depends on like, the
amount how fast you can work. SoI think I started off using that
one. And it was all right. But Iused it again. Recently when I
ran out. Like I asked my bosslike, Hey, I'm gonna buy a
bottle off you real fast. Myglue is not in the shipping yet

(48:43):
or whatever. And I use it. I'mlike, yeah, no, I don't I can't
work with this glue no more. Andthen I also did designare
approach. She had a quick, shehad that glue worked for me for
a while. But eventually it wasjust too slow. The humidity in
Washington sucks. Imean, yeah, like, in time. Yeah.
My humidifier is always on or isit's just tip top for tweezers.

(49:08):
I didn't really like what wasthe brand called it was pink. It
was it was another lady offInstagram. I don't remember. If
you asked me, like can pop it onInstagram. Okay, but um, those
ones I didn't like. They werefine. There were good. isolators
ooh, I know another good brand.
I don't have what they don'thave. Like, if you go to my

(49:28):
room, I have like a littlecrayon. It's like a plastic bin
like you'd put your crayons inthere. It's sparkly. That's why
I have all the ones that I don'tuse. Like these are the ones I
don't use and these are the goodones. When I pop it open.
There's like 80 of them inthere. I have way too many
crazy. I got them from training.

(49:49):
And I separated from the ones Ireally liked out of both
trainings or three trainingsthat I've gotten. And I keep re
buying from tweezers. dessinerpro there was another woman that
was Her name not wicked. I can'tremember the name but it she
makes her own tweezers. They'rereally cool. They should you can
pick like the sweet spot on it.
I I don't remember her name forsome reason I'm blanking. But

(50:12):
that was another good brand. Ikeep buying from my classic
tweezers. It's black and gold.
I'd set you a million times thesquare.
Yeah. Okay. So I think we'rewrapping up. All right. And I
have I have a last question. Imean, I still have a lot that. I
know. I mean, we can talk forhours. You can always message me

(50:34):
too. Yeah. I mean, we'll keep itfor the next time. So whenever
you need me back here. Yeah.
Have you found this balancebetween work? And personal life?
Family?
That's, that's so hard. A lot ofpeople struggle with that. Yes,
I know that I need a solid twodays. And I learned that from

(50:56):
sugar plum just because you needa solid two days to recover. But
I can't turn off my brain. Mybrain is always saying about
work. Five days a week, I wouldsay I work like seven days.
Because I'm always available,but I only works. What was it
five days? Yeah.
Do you ever go and see yourclients when you're they are?
No. Oh my god. I did that once.
And I will never do that again.

(51:17):
Oh, okay. So what do you do whenyou have
days off? Oh, my God. I?
I mean, you have to give me thedetails.
Well, it's kind of difficult,because right now I'm printing
it. So I usually just need toeat and rest. Go, not too much
physical activity. But Idefinitely when I'm not doing

(51:37):
aesthetics, I try to just notthink about I don't I try not to
put my phone. I try to likecook, or I don't know, I'll
listen to music. I watch a lotof movies. I love me some TV
shows movies. And I'll put it onthe background. I'll wash it,
because it's just hard to likedecompress. Like, feel like

(51:58):
we're always stimulated all thetime with clients texting you.
Yeah, you need a post today copyof fun outside of work hours. Or
texts.
If I can tell it's an emergency.
But if if it's not if it's notan emergent if, if somebody if a
random numbers call me because Ihave my phone connected with my
business number is a big no, no,you shouldn't do that. But I did

(52:20):
it. It's the same thing. Yeah,it was like it's fine. It's not
a big deal. People mainly emailme or they'll Institute DME,
which is great. And I say on myvoicemail text me. Like don't
leave me a voicemail or text mebecause I'm not picking up the
phone. Not because I don't wantto talk it was mainly just like,
so I can find a balancedefinitely. But if I'm not, I
try not to pick up like when I'mwith my husband. I try to I try

(52:44):
to not be on my phone. Butsometimes he'll pick up his
phone purse. I'm like, what doyou do? My phone time. But it's
hard because you're like, I needto respond. Yeah, this guy needs
to move down or whateversituation so it is difficult and
I'm still learning how to dothat.
So like your work and also youown your business. And while I'm

(53:04):
in the shower and listen topodcasts, so so I'm just
thinking about education,educational podcasts. Yeah. So
you're pretty much never askedfrom work.
No, it's fun for me. It'sliterally enjoyable. Like it's
it stimulates my brain. It calmsme down. But when I know like

(53:24):
mentally I'm likeoverstimulated, especially now
I'm like, really hormonal orwhatever they I have to just not
think about it. So I havedifferent podcasts that are not
PT related. Okay, the crimepodcasts. I have some weird ones
that they just talked aboutconspiracy theories, okay,
aliens and stuff.
Like shouldn't send me so oh mygod.
I have too long of like, I don'tknow if you can handle this.

(53:46):
Tell me what you're into andI'll send you
Okay, thank you so much, Sarah.
Anna, I would love to see youagain in the future. Oh, yeah.
Whatever. Okay. Thank you.