Exploring the Esoteric: Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot

Join us as we celebrate a significant milestone, marking our 200th episode with reflections on our incredible journey and the fascinating significance of the number 200. We explore the realm of angel numbers, uncovering how 200 embodies abundance, wealth, and success, urging us to trust our intuition and keep striving towards our goals. We break down the numerology of 200, highlighting the energies of balance, cooperation, and new beginnings. 

In a spontaneous twist, we abandon our original plan to discuss our new purchase - the Thoth Tarot deck. We discuss its connection to occultist Aleister Crowley, and journey further into the world of tarot. Comparing the traditional Rider–Waite–Smith deck to the esoteric Thoth deck. These changes offer fresh perspectives on our tarot interpretations, making this an exciting topic to unpack together!

ICYMI: Episode 100: Creep It 100!

Visit our website! Find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Patreon, & more! If you have any true crime, paranormal, or witchy stories you'd like to share with us & possibly have them read (out loud) on an episode, email us at [e-mail] or use this link. There are so many ways that you can support the show: BuyMeACoffee, Spreaker, or by leaving a rating & review on Apple Podcasts. Sources

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Cheers, bitch!

(00:02):
Episdoe 2 freaking hundred.
We've done this 200 times!
More than 200 times.
More than 200 times.
Yeah, because that's just our official episodes.
We have bonuses and bonuses and again, good on other shows and holy shit.
It's kind of like kind of hitting me now.

(00:24):
Yeah.
While 100 symbolizes success, 200 represents endurance.
I’ll say.
[Music]
Don't try it yet.
I just want to smell it!
I just want to smell it.

(00:45):
I just want to sniff it a little.
I just want to sniff it.
Hi, Caitlyn.
Hi, Cassie.
Hi, creepy people.
Hello!
This is PNW Haunts and Homicides.
Where we chat about true crime, the paranormal,
and all things spooky, creepy, and weird in the Pacific Northwest.
The PNW.
If you're nasty.

(01:06):
And you are.
And you are.
So are we.
All right, folks, you heard it here first.
Cassie is the boss and it's been decided.
We also do it here, reading at the end of every episode for a little bit of deeper insight into our topic.
And today happens to be our 200 episode.
Yay!

(01:27):
Last episode we showed off this lovely Christmas present I got from my auntie.
And yeah, we thought it would be a fun way to celebrate our 200th episode, you know,
with our faces on a freaking wine bottle.
How cool is that?
Living the dream.
I'm telling ya.
Yeah, so we're gonna try it right now to celebrate it.
We got a cheer.

(01:48):
I'm so sniffing, okay?
It actually smells really good.
Okay.
Cheers, bitch.
I was like, "Two freaking hundred."
Two freaking hundred.
We've done this.
Two hundred?
More than 200, 200.
Yeah, because that's just our official episodes.
We have bonuses and bonuses and, oh my god, good on other shows and holy shit.

(02:13):
It's kind of, like, kind of hitting me now.
Yeah.
I know I, we knew it was coming and I think we both talked about trying to play on something
and what should we do?
Because we're like, "Oh, it's a milestone."
And then it's just now like, "Woo."
Yeah.
And our anniversary is coming up in May too.
So we don't want to be like two celebratory, but...

(02:36):
Yeah.
It deserves some celebration.
Celebration.
Okay, let's try the short name.
I like it.
I take back everything I've ever said about chardonnay.
I still have the same thoughts.
This, however, tastes like an orange wine.
Yeah.
This is a really good...
Okay.

(02:57):
Let's see what it is.
Yeah.
So we're not usually fans of chardonnay.
But I was like, obviously, I'm going to try it because it was a gift and...
Yeah.
I feel like my aunt knows wine and she's not going to give me anything bad.
So I trusted her.
She would never.
She would never.
She would never.
So this is Josh.
Josh Cellars.
Josh Cellars is written in Teeny Weenie.

(03:18):
Yeah.
So Josh Cellars, which I've had, I think I've had a different kind of this wine before.
I think we've probably had on the pod a couple of different Josh Cellars wines, actually.
And I don't know where she got...
I assume she got the label through Josh Cellars?
Because the label is...
Oh, I don't know.
Oh, you're right.
I think we talked about it because it's like a full...

(03:41):
Yeah.
Sticker.
Yeah.
It's all one piece.
So yeah, so it's a customized bottle that she ordered through them.
Yeah.
That makes...
I want to go and look and see...
Man, I want to order some more.
I know, right?
This is so cool.
Okay.
200.
Oh my gosh.
Do you know what that means?
We've officially had to drink at least 200 bottles of wine together as well.

(04:07):
Wow.
That is pretty true.
All right.
Well, should we get started?
Yeah.
So I'm going to do kind of like what we did for episode 100, if you guys remember, we kind
of talk numbers a little bit.
Ooh.
So not the whole thing.
I was going to have like a little bit of numbers talk.
And then I do have an actual haunted story for you.

(04:29):
Ew.
So, you know, like angel numbers and stuff.
People talk about those where if you see this number over and over, this is what it means.
So I was kind of looking into that.
So I was like, what is the number 200 mean?
And I found a Pinterest quote I want to start off with that I think is very cute and fun.
I'm excited about that.

(04:51):
And this is like one of the, you know, Pinterest quotes where it's like the pretty quote in the
picture and whatever.
I linked it if anyone is curious.
I want to see it.
So number 200 heralds a harmonious symphony in your life urging you to embrace balance and
trust the unfolding divine plan.
Oh, okay.
This numerical sequence serves as a reminder that your dreams are taking root.

(05:15):
And by staying grounded, you can manifest a reality filled with abundance and spiritual
alignment.
I hope so.
Yeah.
So she's like, that's kind of like the energy in the vibe of the number 200.
I love that.
So in general, 200 symbolizes abundance, wealth and success encourages you to trust your intuition

(05:37):
and keep taking steps towards your goals because the universe is ready to open doors of abundance.
I'm playing the lay.
And I felt like if the number 200 were a poster, it would be like the hang in their cat.
Like hang in there.
It's coming.
Yeah.

(05:58):
Keep doing what you're doing.
Oh, my gosh.
Okay.
That just made me think of it.
That kind of has a little bit of a tie in for anybody watching Severance.
Not going to say anything more, but the poster thing that you just said.
I'm like, oh, I also had a thought was that poster in the office too?
Yeah.

(06:18):
I think it was.
That's so funny because in the 100 episode, I did that quote from the office.
Michael Scott.
Yeah.
You miss 60% of the shot or the 100% of the shot you don't take.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm getting it.
I'm crossing wires here.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(06:39):
I see.
Yeah.
I see.
Yeah.
There's a person of the time it works every time.
Exactly.
Yeah.
But ours was the 100.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
Yeah.
Which is like a hockey player's boat.
Yeah.
Wayne Gretzky.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
When I wrote that, I didn't even really have a connection there, but it totally connects

(07:01):
with our 100th episode too.
I love it.
Okay.
So we're going to break this number down like we did last time too.
All right.
So in numerology, two represents balance, cooperation and partnership, the scales, like
Yin and Yang and Chinese culture, two has an empathetic, compassionate and creative energy.

(07:25):
Oh my God.
Connected to the moon and the element of water.
Oh, which is, that's interesting.
I don't remember last time if we talked about 100 being like connected to.
Yeah.
I plan it.
Or that's 100 episodes.
Right.
I mean, my God.
We didn't talk about a lot of other things in that episode too.

(07:46):
So.
Yeah.
This was on numerologistpro.com and they say people with a number two energy gravitate
towards career, set involved entertainment or helping others, which I have this interesting
because I feel like we're doing both.
Yeah.
A little bit.
Yeah.
Hopefully we're helping people.
Yeah.

(08:06):
Yeah.
You probably more so me, but I don't know.
Sometimes you just need to hear a spooky story to get you through the day.
Yeah.
I mean, we can help and it doesn't always have to be in the same way.
That's true.
Yeah.
I know.
I've heard people say that we make them laugh too.
So hopefully that helps.
Is it because our faces are fun?
It says too that they might find fulfillment in acting circus roles or stand up comedy.

(08:28):
Which I feel like I feel like yeah, we're really we're threatened the needle circus on
all of them.
So Pacific.
So Pacific.
And we are hilarious.
We just talked about that.
Yeah.
Obviously.
Working in teams and being a part of the community brings them joy.

(08:48):
So that's like the energy of two.
Yeah.
I feel like it's so us.
And we did our birth chart thing for our business and we were like the Gemini.
That's true.
Yeah.
Which normally, I don't know, Gemini always gives me I give it a little bit of a side
eye, but now maybe maybe I have a different perspective.

(09:09):
Yeah.
It's just, you know, duality two sides, which is very us.
I, yeah.
Two heads, one brain.
Basically, yeah, two genres, one show and zero, which we've have talked about before in
episode 100.
So I'm not going to like deep dive into it, but just as a refresher, it symbolizes new
beginnings and endless possibilities.

(09:33):
Zero also amplifies the energies of the surrounding numbers.
Oh.
And then this is interesting.
So as an amplification of the number 20, 20 is associated with popularity and pursuing
passions without lacking material.
Well, so I'm like amplify that shit.

(09:54):
Amplify it.
Well 100 symbolizes success.
200 represents endurance.
Also, yeah, because it's like you, you get to the 100 and you're like, yeah, I'm there.
We did 100.
But then you got to do 100 more.
Yeah.
And 100 more.
And so the fact that we made it another 100 is just like endurance.

(10:17):
That is true endurance.
It really, yeah, this is a, it's an intense team sport.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there is a tarot card associated with it.
It's the high priestess, which is of course number two.
So that makes sense.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Number two in the major arcana.
And we actually pulled that one pretty recently and the moon card.

(10:39):
I feel like my last two episodes, we like pulled the moon and the high priestess cards.
I think you're right.
Yeah.
So interesting.
One was a little snapshot of the future there.
Let's keep open soul.
But that card, the high priestess, you know, we just talked about it.

(10:59):
So you guys might remember, but it represents a lot of the same things like duality balance
and intuition.
And even if it doesn't really mean anything, I mean, we're at our 200 episodes.
So like that means a shit ton.
It does.
Like universally, if it doesn't really mean anything, yeah, we are still too pretty cool.

(11:22):
Weird witchy chicks who fucking had no clue what they were doing 200 episodes ago.
And somehow are still here.
I know.
And now it feels like we literally have 200 lights in our, I'm sorry, excuse me in our pod studio.
Studio.
What?
It's crazy.
We just talked about this last night.

(11:43):
We started off in a trailer.
Yeah.
We did.
With no video and no lights.
Yeah.
We did.
Yeah.
At one point, we actually tried recording with one microphone too.
We did.
It did not go well.
Yeah.
I do think that we should probably say a little special thanks to some people too.
Because we didn't, we didn't get her alone.

(12:05):
I mean, mostly alone, but not completely.
So special thanks to.
And Caitlin's husband, Chris, helping with a lot of our technological things, the lives
was the major help the camera set up like all of it.
I've been thinking about that that it's like, oh man, it's time for us to probably think

(12:26):
about doing another live.
And I'm like, oh dear God, it's so much work.
I know, especially with all this new stuff, like we just, I know we can do it.
We just need to figure it out.
And it's going to be a minute.
Yeah.
It's, it's very intense.
So obviously special thanks to Taylyn, who does our social media and the videos for YouTube.

(12:48):
And it inserts a lot of really funny stuff that we were cracking up about this morning.
I know one of these days, the only way this show is going to stop is because I died laughing
at something that Taylyn did with like a clip or I don't even have words.
Yeah.

(13:09):
Chris was like, it takes a lot.
To get like that much of a reaction out of him.
Yeah, that was, yeah.
So it was a laugh.
It was like a, I was like, how do I describe that?
It sounds weird to say he, he fully laughed out loud, but like he did.
He did.
And out loud.
Out loud.
Out loud.
Out loud.

(13:30):
Oh my gosh.
I was looking up.
That was episode 197 that there's a funny, funny in the video.
So I know there's a funny little insert of sound in the audio version.
If you're listening like on Spotify or whatever, but on the Patreon.

(13:50):
And it sounds like we're going to make that go a little bit wider that funny little clip.
So it's a combination of animal sounds and it's always sunny.
And I don't know.
I don't know if anyone noticed or if we've talked about this before because I still edit
the audio part.
So it's always a little different.
So if you've listened to the audio and you're curious and still want to watch the video,

(14:14):
it's kind of like a different experience.
It's the same story, obviously, but there's inserts, funny stuff.
And she edits, she leaves things in the eye, take out and vice versa.
Like they're just a little bit different.
Yeah.
I think as much as obviously we started as, you know, audio is the primary medium.

(14:35):
There are certain things where it's like now that we have help and we're kind of expanding
on platforms.
There's so many things that we would have cut out for audio only that now it's like, oh,
this is so cool.
We can leave this in for YouTube or make a little clip for social media.

(14:56):
Yeah.
People can actually see because there's so many funny or just like, whoa, things that happen.
But it just doesn't hit the same as audio only.
Right.
Sometimes you have to see it and things won't translate in audio, especially for like showing
something and then not describing it, which is exactly.

(15:16):
Sometimes we have a problem about it.
And that was an oil.
All right.
So I wanted to do a tarot poll for just our 200th episode in general.
And we this morning went somewhere and ended up purchasing a new tarot deck.
I know.
I go there all the time and I always go and I browse and they've got crystals and all kinds

(15:42):
of fun goodies.
And I've seen a lot of things that I thought would be kind of cool for us to play with or
to have on our shelves.
But this was like, we got to have it.
We hate to have it.
Got to have it.
Haste to.
Because we don't have one.
We don't.
Yeah.

(16:03):
I mean, we do know.
We do now.
So let's show.
Okay.
We should say we did kind of a crazy thing that we've never done before.
So like up to 100.
Who knows what's going to happen next?
No one knows.
We decided to just stop in the middle of our recording and scrap what Cassie had researched
because it was not nearly as interesting as the new Thoth Tarot, that tarot deck that

(16:31):
we got that we initially started like, Hey, how do you pronounce this?
And then we started researching just things come up and we're like, man, this is interesting.
Maybe we need to stop research the Thoth deck and like come to you with some info about
that.
Do a tarot reading with it.
And that's the episode and save Cassie's research for next time.

(16:52):
Here we are and we did it and we did the damn thing weird in real time.
Yes, it was very strange.
Okay.
Are you ready for?
Are you ready for that?
I'm so ready.
I'm so interested.
All right.
Well, as advertised, this is hardly going to be a deep dive.

(17:16):
Right.
Yes.
Very surface level stuff.
But it did spark.
I feel like some inspiration for maybe future episodes or all the dives and yeah, absolutely,
absolutely.
We will be back.
And we can't say when we're not really ready to like commit.

(17:37):
But Edward Alexander Crowley, also known as Aleister Crowley, was born to a wealthy and
devout evangelical Christian family on October 12th, 1875 in Royal Lamington Spa.
Spa.
Spa.
Spa.

(17:58):
It's a spa town in Warwickshire, England, which is something that I had to look up.
But it's quite literally what I thought it sounded like.
A spa town.
A spa town.
A spa is a location where mineral, rich spring water, sometimes sea water, is used to give

(18:20):
medicinal box.
Oh, okay.
Very fancy pans, energy here already.
He was sent to prestigious prep schools and no doubt lived a very charmed life at least
for a time from an outside perspective.
I come from a spa town.

(18:41):
A spa town.
It's just so interesting.
It's very locked to you down.
You want to live in a spa?
Honestly, yeah.
And I feel like we kind of briefly touched on that feels very fancy, but also I feel like
there are some low key ties to the occult.
Weird.

(19:02):
If anyone knows anything about Aleister Crowley.
Yeah, which it won't be hard to outdo us in terms of knowledge about Aleister Crowley
at this point.
But it is also very interesting that he came from like such a religious, like evangelical
Christian family.

(19:22):
I don't think I knew that part of it.
Very religious, but also the money upbringing is very, I mean, it makes sense.
He's pretty entitled.
He gives an entitled five.
Well, that.
Well, but his father's passing was said to have marked a decided turning point in his
young life.

(19:44):
Despite his immense privilege, he began exhibiting behavioral issues at school before being
removed.
And at the same time was said to have been plagued by an extremely unusual health issue.
albuminuria.
I think we're going to look that up.

(20:06):
I intended to, but I feel like I looked at it and I said, aluminum.
That's what I thought you were saying.
albuminuria. is often asymptomatic, but in some cases may cause a whitish foam to appear
in a sufferer's urine.

(20:28):
Ooh.
Like peat like bubbles in his pee.
Uh huh.
Like a, like a, your pee and a beer out.
Right.
Like you're foaming at the mouth as if one were rabid, but it, uh, at the mouth of your dick,
if you will.
Yum.

(20:49):
They may even develop swelling in some of their extremities amongst other even rarer side
effects.
But in other news, unrelated to what was coming out of the tip of his penis.
Yes, let's move on.
It has been said that he went against the Christian morality of his upbringing by smoking, Mr. Bid.

(21:10):
And having sex with sex workers from whom he would contract gonorrhea.
Damn.
On top of his foamy peepee dick.
I know.
Which sounds like an STD in and of itself, but it is not.
I mean, that sucks that he had, like some condition.

(21:31):
Those are tough times.
Yeah.
But the one he contracted, I mean, that'll happen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, listen, hey, if you, if you play the field long enough and aggressively enough, it'll
find you.
Right.
Which I, I don't think there's anything wrong with.
No, I think it's a natural part of, unfortunately, if you're not having protected sex, that's, you

(21:53):
know, sort of the, that's, uh, you pay to play.
And this was as it were back in the day, too.
Oh, man, in the day, not present times.
Correct.
Yeah.
Although same rules apply.
Yes.
Rapid before you tap it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He did go on to receive his education from Trinity College at the University of Cambridge.

(22:16):
Oh.
Where's that at?
England.
England.
Yeah.
Okay.
A fancy place.
Fancy.
It was during this time that he was said to have adopted the name Aleister.
Hmm.
So that's not his real name.
Right.
What does his real name have?
It feels like kind of a mashup of his real name.

(22:38):
It is Edward Alexander.
So Aleister kind of feels like if you just like mushed him a little bit.
But like cooler.
But like cooler.
I wonder how I just like wonder how he came up with that, you know?
Yeah.
You know, and I didn't come across so far anything that indicates like what's the genesis

(23:00):
of this, but there might be info out there.
We'll deep dive on it sometime in the future.
Guaranteed.
Guaranteed.
From there, he became not only a poet, novelist and mountaineer, but additionally an English
occultist and ceremonial magician.
Oh, does the ceremonial magician mean it's not like magic, right?

(23:27):
It's like magic as we think of it like spells and stuff.
It's not like I mean magician.
What am I magician?
Right.
Doesn't that mean like a flight of hand like unclear?
Unclear.
I'm not prepared to provide you more information about the nature of the ceremonial magic.

(23:48):
Because ceremonial makes me think of it as like a like you're doing like a spell or something.
Something very formal, not just like cutting a woman in half.
That's fair.
Okay.
Yeah.
I have to say that I would probably agree with that interpretation based on the facts and
but again, you know, for a future deep dive, he was also purportedly a very accomplished

(24:15):
chess player.
At one time, having considered having a go as a professional, which is we agree the most
privileged, rich, white man career choice that one could make.
Until.
Until then he continues to make increasingly privileged white man choices.

(24:37):
But you can because he has a privilege white man.
That is his privilege must be nice.
People biographers have pointed to a significant experience often described as mystical in nature
that led him to recognizing his bisexuality while in Stockholm in December of 1896.

(25:01):
Hey, get it.
Unlimited.
Unlimited.
Unlimited.
Unlimited.
Who has it?
You know, 1896 in Stockholm.
Am I right?
Those were the days.
Yeah.
All the little gay there.
Maybe.
I mean, in my mind, we're all a little gay all the time everywhere.

(25:22):
But she's like, as someone who's already a little queer, I just assumed that y'all are
on the same page.
If you're not, I don't get it.
I don't.
You don't get it.
Yeah.
I can understand that.
I feel like there's so much about any aspect of lived human experience that you're like,
I just assumed everyone was doing it the way I was doing it.

(25:46):
While he continued his education at Cambridge, he maintained a very active sex life, primarily
with female sex workers, eventually contracting syphilis.
Oh, shit.
He got gonorrhea before and now syphilis.
Yeah.
Dang.
Yeah.

(26:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Never mind you that he has a privileged, wealthy white man.
That's true.
Okay.
Yeah.
It makes sense.
Yeah.
Does that help?
Okay.
Okay.
Thank you.
Glad to be here to help.
Despite same sex relations being illegal at the time, he would partake and enter into a relationship

(26:28):
with Herbert Charles Pollitt.
Oh.
I have decided it is Pollitt because it seems like it could be French in origin.
But there's a lot of elves and a lot of teas and I, hmm, that's what I've decided.
It's called Herbert Charles.

(26:49):
Charles.
Though the pair with later split do in large part to Pollitt's disinterest in Western esotericism,
much to Crowley's regret.
Both his disinterest and then also the breakup.
Oh.
A lot of regret about more than one thing for Crowley's.
I don't know what are you going to do?

(27:10):
In 1904, he married Rose Edith Kelly and the pair Honeymoon in Egypt, where he wrote his
now infamous "The Book of the Law," which is not studied in law school to this day.
What is it?
What is it the law of?
The icing on the cake was that his new book would become the basis of a new religion.

(27:35):
He went on to establish known as "Thelema," for which he was of course self-appointed as prophet.
Of course.
Who else would be prophet?
Jesus.
Jesus.
Jesus.
It's interesting that you would just call it the book of the law.

(27:56):
Like why wouldn't you say the law of something?
Thelema.
Thelema.
Like Thelema, Thelema.
The book of the law is so generic.
I don't know.
Maybe that's what he was going for.
Maybe someone will pick this up not knowing what it is.
It's the book of the law.
What law?
I don't know.
Not interested in sharing that with you.
I wish we would just pick it up and read it and find out.

(28:18):
You just need to be specific in your titles.
I don't know.
Do you?
Also, it feels like it's worth noting.
Finally, you've contracted conceivably almost every sexually transmitted disease on God's
green earth.
And now, you are indeed ready to settle down with your, with your bride.

(28:41):
I'm ready to be committed to one person.
I think we will learn is actually, factually inaccurate.
Right.
But again, this is not a deep dive.
I can't imagine someone who see, okay, I don't want to diagnose because I'm not a doctor,
but it seems like he might have had like a sexual addiction.
All of the prostitute, it just seems like it.

(29:04):
I mean, it definitely seems like there's something spicy going on in that brain.
Yeah.
As we discussed, off my previously, as we were researching, I think there's a combination
of, I think we got sort of an error 404 situation going on in certain parts of the brain
here.

(29:24):
I don't know.
I can't imagine he was totally faithful, but I don't know.
I can't imagine either because as it happens, it doesn't, the historical texts don't seem
to support that.
It seems that tracks.
Yeah, I'm not going to get into it right now.

(29:44):
What I am going to tell you is that eventually, Thelemite groups were established abroad
as far as Australia and parts of North America.
I'm interested to know how he got people on board with him.
You know, I have a lot of follow up questions as well.
It's the law.
It's the law.

(30:05):
Doing no small part to his copious intake of hashish, Alistair's life became increasingly
bizarre and mystical.
Notably at this time, his inheritance was reportedly dwindling.
I mean, if he's, if his life is her expensive y'all, well, it's like, yeah, and his life

(30:26):
ambitions were like to be a chess player or like what it was the other thing.
I think that's the only true professional ambition that he's expressed at this point.
There doesn't seem to be a career making money here.
Yeah.
That's what I'm seeing.
Yeah.
A little bit, a little bit.
We're going to wrap up here.

(30:47):
He was a complicated human that has fascinated generations, even given what have been interpreted
and fairly so problematic and at times, appropriative behavior.
By the time World War II rolled around, he was said to have begun working to infiltrate
German forces in order to assist British intelligence.

(31:11):
So very interesting.
He's also like moon lighting as a spy.
I could give him the, it's he just doing this on his own.
Was he working for the military?
Like, who gave him the okay to go do this?
And clear.
Unclear.
Definitely a thread that I would like to pull at.
Yes, please.
That is it.
What?

(31:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
Before his death in December of 1947, not long after the end of World War II, which as we've
established is my Roman Empire, Crowley became an expliquibly linked with all things asotaric,
spiritual and otherwise.

(31:54):
Woo-woo.
Oh.
Very, very associated with like a cult thing, too.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, a cult was a good word.
Could have used that.
Decided.
I would.
You said it previously.
Yeah.
But I just wanted to drive home kind of the the occultness of it because it's going to come
up and what I'm going to talk about here in a second.

(32:15):
That's fair.
So obviously he had a hand in creating the Thoth, Thoth.
Thoth.
Thoth.
Thoth.
I think we decide we we did listen to a lot of videos and a lot of pronunciations and we
found a video from a museum.
It was like an Egyptian museum.

(32:37):
Yes.
And it said, appeared to be the the informational voice over the museum stuff said, Thoth.
So.
That's what we're going to go with because we've heard those we've heard taught.
We've heard tote in all different types.
Basically any possible phonetic pronunciation based on any language that has ever existed,

(33:05):
there are so many iterations of this and it is from what I gather hotly debated.
Yeah.
Didn't it say like something about we actually don't know how the Egyptians pronounce things
that that is something that I came across where it does not appear that there is a consensus.

(33:25):
I'm really interested to look into that further.
Yeah.
And we spent a fairly exhaustive amount of time looking into that pronunciation alone,
which is why Aleister Crowley is receiving somewhat of a deep dive or a shallow dive I should
say today.

(33:46):
Yeah, definitely inspired the need to look into all this stuff further.
Yeah.
Because it's just fascinating.
Well, there's just so there's just so many questions.
And I guess we did we should probably start off by saying, Thoth is an Egyptian god.
Yes.
So that's like where the name comes from.
And this Thoth deck was essentially the book of the law in tarot card form.

(34:13):
So which is kind of crazy.
That is crazy.
I had no idea.
So we're about to do a reading with the book of the law.
The book of the law.
It uses the same basis as the writer wait Smith deck.
But yeah, which came first.
We'll talk about that next.
But this deck is more explicit in esoteric than the Rider–Waite–Smith deck.

(34:38):
See and to me that those two terms seem almost conflicting because esoteric implies that
it's a little bit more mystical and almost unknowable.
Whereas explicit is like, I think explicit in the art, the art.
Like, the art is explicit.
Yeah, I guess explicit does have a multiple meaning.

(34:59):
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, I'm glad that you say that though.
And it makes sense based on the handful of cards that we've reviewed.
Yeah.
So I think, I mean, I think so.
There's like boobies and shit in the, yeah.
So maybe they don't, maybe they do mean more straightforward because there's something
a little bit later.
We'll get to that.

(35:19):
We'll get to it in a second.
Okay.
But so I just wanted to go over.
So the writer wait Smith deck was first.
They created that 1909.
Okay.
And it was created by wait was the, I don't know his first name, I didn't write it down.

(35:39):
But wait.
Want me to look?
Yeah, very fine.
Okay.
Wait was the author of the interpretations basically.
Okay.
Pamela Coleman Smith did the artwork.
Yes.
Writer was just the publisher.
They literally had nothing to do with any of the art or the writings.
They literally were just the publisher.

(36:01):
So it's funny that their name is first.
That's so wild to me.
Yeah.
And I know there's a lot of kind of, I don't know, there's hot takes, I guess, for lack of
a better term about, you know, wow, some of the, you know, the credit is unequal.
Yeah.
And I knew, you know, that it was a split in terms of, it was a collaborative effort to

(36:25):
create the deck.
I may have known at some point and I've simply forgotten since, but the fact about the publisher
is right.
That's mind blowing.
And it was originally just the writer wait deck.
Like they didn't even include Pamela Coleman Smith.
That is the piece, which is like very upsetting.
And that is the piece that I know has created so much controversy around the writer wait.

(36:51):
And we're going to call it Rider–Waite–Smith as I think I would call it Waite–Smith–Rider
to be honest with you.
That's what I would call it.
Yeah.
That is wild.
Yeah.
So yeah, she came up with a, like, she did all of the artwork and then, you know, she added,
I think her little signature and all of the, the, they're all hidden on each card.

(37:14):
And so yeah, she had a huge hand in that.
But this deck was developed by members of the order of the Golden Dawn.
So they were all members of the order of the Golden Dawn.
I don't know about writer because that was the, yeah, that's the publisher.
Yeah, that's the part I'm not going to assume but that.
Wait and Smith were.
But also, probably was a part of the member of the Golden Dawn for a little while.

(37:38):
And he broke away to create his own religion.
I forget.
Thelema.
Thelema.
I always, I think of Thelemites is the word that I know.
So Thelema.
Yeah.
So he broke away, created his own religion where he was the prophet.
It's fine.
We all should do this, you know?

(38:00):
It's only the soft deck was created.
It started being created before Aleister Crowley passed away.
It was like 1938 to like early 40s.
Okay.
Where it was created, but it wasn't actually printed until he passed away.
Interesting.
So that is a long ass time.
Yeah.
I feel like he was kind of working on that.

(38:21):
My feeling was because he was like running out of money.
He needed things to sell and to do.
So I feel like he was kind of working on that but he ended up passing away.
I don't know.
Working on his German spy career.
Yeah.
Wow.
That's why it's kind of interesting that they still went forward and printed it after

(38:46):
his death and he was the one who created this religion and this tarot deck to go with his
religion.
And it just, yeah.
But if you think about it, I mean, his estate, whatever that consists of and then anybody
else that's involved with this creative project, there's still, this is intellectual property

(39:06):
that they still all stand to benefit in some dorm or fashion from.
So it's like on the face of it, you're like, why did you still publish a feedard?
But, but if all the work was done, yeah, because, yeah, the bill, y'all.
And the artist for this deck was a Frieda Harris.
Yes.

(39:27):
And I want to read a, just a small quote from the little interpretation book from Frieda.
Yeah.
Read a little, read a little Frieda.
Read a little from Frieda.
There's a little section in here in the interpretation book that came with the tarot
deck, the remarkable series of surrealistic tarot paintings prepared by Lady Frieda Harris

(39:49):
under the guidance of Aleister Crowley, a test both to Lady Harris's unique art talent
and her patience and ability to work with a demanding mentor.
Ah, yes.
I thought that was interesting.
They put that in the book, which was printed after his death.
So I have to imagine he did not approve of that being in there, but who knows?

(40:11):
I mean, but also who cares?
But I can't imagine working under him like how hard just to even get this artwork approved,
how hard that would have been.
Like how much mansplaining did she have to endure?
The mansplaining.

(40:32):
I can't.
But it is his, it is based off of his religion that he wrote.
So I mean, I'm sure he had a lot of.
He had created and then ripped off the tarot deck from somebody else and just like inserted
his own stuff in there.
It's fine.
Yeah.
With a lot of appropriated cultural ethnocentric ideals and principles and iconography and so many

(40:59):
things.
So many things.
The whole Egyptian thing, I kind of didn't quite, I don't think I knew or really associated.
So it made me think of the Oculus Anubis episode where we were like, why is Egypt like
bad?
What is this?
Well, and here's the thing, I think it goes back to at a certain point in history and

(41:22):
stop me if you're literally about to say this.
But I think there was a certain point in history where the Western world became obsessed with
all things Egypt because it's culturally so different from a lot of her customs.
Beautiful.
And yes.

(41:43):
And so so fascinating and such a rich and beautiful culture and the artistry.
This is why people literally bought things like mummy powder.
Holy shit, I wasn't prepared to do a dissertation on mummy powder, but it is exactly what it sounds

(42:09):
like.
Did they just like dust off a money and a mummy and just a jar?
It does.
It's not, it's not the dust off of a mummy.
It is literally mummy dust.
No.
Assuming that you had an even somewhat reputable seller.
Yes.
Something where you're consuming someone, whoa.

(42:32):
That's crazy.
Yes.
I didn't know about that.
Yes.
That's gross.
It's very gross for a lot of reasons.
Also, I think the least of which is cannibalism.
Oh, no.
Do people eat it?
Yeah.
Why?
Yes.
Again, like I said, not prepared to do a full dissertation on mummy powder.

(42:57):
We can revisit.
As I recall, a number of reasons that were cited for, I need to close with the purchase
and consumption of mummy powder.
This is a real thing.
Yeah.
What?
We can come back to that.
I was not prepared to learn that today.
I know.
And honestly, I didn't think that that was going to come up somehow, but of course, but of

(43:21):
course, it would.
I just kind of, I was prepared to blame all of the Egypt Occult Association on Aleister
Crowley because he went to Egypt on his honeymoon.
He used a very strong Egyptian imagery, influence in the tarot deck and everything he did.

(43:42):
And he was associated with the occult, too.
Right.
I feel like his--
He's created that.
It was like a melting pot of--
Right.
He's created that blanket.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I think, I mean, I can't--
It's hard to say that any one person who's responsible for something that is so profound,

(44:03):
but I think it would be hard to divorce the linkage that he created and say, no, it's
because of this, I think.
And I think he's like the biggest-- if one of the biggest-- if not the biggest-- influence
in occult practices.
So certainly, yeah, very big name.

(44:24):
So the fact that he just stole all of this Egyptian, I say stole.
He stole it.
I mean, yeah.
It's hard to-- it's hard to put that a different way.
Yeah.
Find him on Red Pill Reddit.
So we're just like connecting other episodes.
And wow.
Yeah, I just didn't-- I really didn't even think about that connection there.

(44:47):
But that's when I come from.
And then-- so we're going to talk about some of the differences.
And there's not very many differences.
And--
Yeah, they are strikingly similar.
Yeah, the Rider–Waite–Smith the Waite–Smith–Rider Deck, and the Thoth tarot
deck.
But there are some differences.

(45:08):
I want to talk about first though, we were going through the deck.
And I found this card.
Mm.
And this is the backs of the cards, right?
That's the back of every other card.
Every other card.
And then all the other cards have a number and a name and all the normal things associated.
This one didn't.
It was just a symbol.

(45:28):
So I was like, what the fuck is that?
What is this?
And I tried to Google Image Search it on my computer.
And I took a photo on my phone.
And I sent it to my computer.
Did the Google Image Search on Chrome?
And it was like, whoops, something went wrong.
It would not search it.
So I was like, well, I'll send it to Caitlyn.
She did it on Safari, right?
Did it on Safari?

(45:49):
It was still a Google Image Search.
But it was on Safari.
And I'm--
But it worked.
I'm not saying the Apple is better.
I'm just saying one of us got a result.
And one of us was using the Apple.
Yeah.
It's just weird.
And I have Chrome and Google on my--
We're using an Apple device.
Yeah.
So I don't--
Listen, who am I to say why things work the way they do?

(46:12):
But you have to have Chrome and Safari because sometimes things won't work on one another.
So I didn't-- anyway.
So walked on Safari.
I don't know why it didn't work on Chrome.
That's just weird.
Because I've done it before, for sure, with a photo from my phone.
Absolutely.
So I don't know.
I thought maybe it was like the .heic tag at the end.

(46:33):
I don't know what that's called.
Yeah, but the file--
It wasn't a JPEG.
So I don't know.
But I feel like it's worked before.
Anyway, it wasn't giving me anything.
We're looking really weird.
I was like, something doesn't want us to know.
But it ended up working.
And we found out that it is a six-pointed star.

(46:54):
Like a different version of a star.
It doesn't really look like a normal star.
Yeah, it doesn't look like a star.
It almost seems like a star in an Indenity symbol hybrid.
Yeah.
It's like two inverted triangles together.
Almost like--
There's a lot of triangles potentially.

(47:17):
But yeah.
Anyway.
So a six-pointed star originated
with the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.
Well, what?
So he stole something else.
You don't say.
So he took this and then put his five-pedal flower

(47:38):
in the center to represent a pentagram.
Interesting.
Yes.
And we didn't deep dive on why I just
wanted to go over what that little symbol was.
Maybe we'll deep dive on it at another point.
But I thought that was interesting.
I was like, what is this thing?
It was just--

(47:58):
It's very strange.
Yeah.
And to be honest, I think sometimes,
especially with something that's like a cult or esoteric
like this, the iconography, like the imagery of it
can be really illuminating.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.

(48:18):
And I did say-- I did skip a little paragraph.
I did say earlier we would talk about this.
So some people think even though this deck is more esoteric,
they tend to think the thought tarot is more accessible
and more straightforward than traditional tarot.
So like sometimes traditional tarot
has kind of like got mixed messages.
You kind of have to interpret what it means.

(48:40):
Yeah.
This deck, some people think, is just more
straight to the point.
I don't know if that's true.
That's just some people's opinion.
I'm very curious to find out.
I'm excited to use it.
I am as well.
Yeah.
I think I was aware a little bit of sort of a controversy
between the two decks.

(49:01):
But we have learned so much.
I can't believe it's taken us to literally the day of episode
200 to be like, listen, I just want to know more.
And the stars aligned.
Yeah, they totally did.
Because we didn't know we were going to buy this tarot deck

(49:21):
today.
Like--
No.
We're kind of a fly by the seat of your pants type of pod.
At times, yeah.
I mean, with certain things.
And honestly, I have been to this establishment so many times.
And I've not seen that deck there before.
I might have seen other iterations of a thos tarot deck there.

(49:47):
But I've not seen this one.
And we were sort of himming and hawing too.
We bought the massively large in terms of card size.
Yes.
I'm a deck.
Because we thought the other one didn't come with an interpretation
deck.

(50:07):
But I think probably both of them did.
And we fucked up when we bought the massive one.
But here we are.
Here we are.
Here we are.
They're very flexible.
They're very flexible, easy to shuffle for me cars.
Because my hands are a little bit bigger.
A little bit.
Yeah.
We can watch Caitlyn try.
But I don't think we should.
I don't think we should.
OK, so let's go over the differences

(50:28):
between the two decks real quick.
Yeah.
So in the weight Smith Rider deck--
Look at you, I see.
Your wheels turning about this.
And I know-- I respect it.
I really respect Pamela Coleman-Smith.
I've listened to multiple episodes
on different witchy pods about her.

(50:48):
And I'm just obsessed.
So I just want to give her--
I want everyone to know her name.
I love that.
That's why I went and wrote out her entire name.
And then I was like, oh, fuck, what was weight's name?
What's your guy?
He's just a riding a spy.
Yeah, fucking guy.
But in the Waite-Smith-Rider deck, the major arcana,

(51:10):
we know, is all of the food, the magician, all of those cards,
those 20, 21, 20--
I think it's 21.
I think it's 20.
I don't remember.
20 cards.
Do you want me to look?
I think it's 20.
Let me look.
OK, let me look.
22.
Oh, it is 22.

(51:31):
22.
22.
Taytay.
OK, so that's what we normally know all of the 22 cards
as in this deck they're called Trump cards.
OK, and I've heard this before.
This is a term I'm familiar with.

(51:51):
I've heard it before.
I think I associated it with poker or something.
Right, like regular playing cards.
Yeah.
And I don't know if you heard me in my research earlier,
I was like, ew.
Yeah.
That's why.
It's a definite ew.
That's why.
Because I was writing you.
They're called Trump cards.
Yeah.

(52:12):
Gross.
That's an age well.
Here we are.
Yeah.
Wow.
I feel like Aleister Crowley would definitely
wear a Maga hat.
I don't know.
I feel like he's a little too dignified.
Do you think?
You know, it's a coin toss.
I don't know.
It's a coin tie.
It's a Maga vibes, but is it Maga?

(52:33):
Maga?
Maga?
No one cares.
I don't care.
As it turns out, no one cares.
Yeah.
No, I mean, I think as someone who decided in the early 1900s to live out loud as a bisexual
man.
I guess that's true.
I do have a little bit of a harder time believing that he would be a Trump bumper, but

(52:56):
I could be wrong.
But there's a lot of misogyny in his beliefs and practices in life.
And that's true.
That's true.
Listen, sometimes there's enough hate to go around, unfortunately.
Yeah.
So I don't know.
I guess we can't say.
No.
He's not alive.
Not conclusively.

(53:17):
Yeah.
The results are inconclusive.
Yes.
Even though I said definitely, I didn't mean it.
Definitely allegedly.
I don't know if in this deck they're referred to the minor arcana, the lesser arcana.
I'm really not sure.
But in this deck, they're just called the suits.

(53:39):
Okay.
And I was going to say suits.
Yeah.
But that goes back to a traditional playing deck of cards.
Yeah.
And I think they're referred to that too in the normal, uh, Waite-Smith-Rider deck
too.
They can be called the suits.
So, but that's what it is in this.
I don't know if there's another.

(54:00):
I was assuming there was like another name.
So the trump cards and the suits, I guess is what they're called.
We're going to go over some of the trump cards that are different.
So the first one is would be the magician and the traditional deck.
And in this, I, in this deck, it's called the magus, which means sorcerer.

(54:23):
And that can also be called the juggler too in this deck, I guess.
He looks like he's juggling to be fair.
He looks a little shady.
I'm a little skeptical of his motives to be honest.
Mr. Sorcerer.
Sorcerer..
And I think we've had this come up in the tarot interpretation book too.

(54:44):
So their number eight card is the adjustment card or justice.
Oh.
And in the original deck, it's the strength card.
And the strength, which is also one of my cards.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
Okay.
And not to make everything Leo centric, which is very Leo of a Leo, but that is kind of wild

(55:06):
though, because it's like those are two hotly debated cards.
And that's, yes.
That's one of their, their main.
And they do say that they flip flop, either 11 or eight would be strength and justice.
But in this deck, number 11 is the lust card taking the place of the strength card.

(55:28):
Their strength card is nine of ones, because all of the suits have words associated with
them too.
So nine of ones has strength on the bottom of it.
The lust card.
The lust card.
I know.
And I was like, that is very interesting because they also, they have a lover's card too.
So it's like, yeah, it's just interesting that they have both.

(55:50):
And then they got, they moved the strength card to nine of ones, which is not a trump card.
It's a suit.
Yeah.
Very interesting.
They also call their number 12.
It is either the hanged man or they will call it the dying God, which I thought was interesting.
I feel like in this deck, it does say the hanged man.

(56:10):
Okay.
But dying God just sounds like way more ominous, I think, because hanged man isn't like
a dying man.
It's like, it's all about a different perspective and like seeing things from a different perspective.
So there are so many of these cards that are different.
Holy shit.
Literally, every single one of the suits is different because it has a word associated

(56:36):
with it on the card, which is so cool.
Here's the hanged man.
And they do call it, yeah, they do call it the hanged man.
And it does have that, it has an Egyptian symbol.
Is that the, yeah, that's an ankh.
He's hanging from an ankh, basically.
I did also find the strength card number nine.
And I got confused because I was like, I thought it was swords.

(56:59):
Because they're kind of like, they look like arrows and I was like, what do swords, but
no, they're ones.
Wow.
Yeah.
Okay.
The number 14 card, which is normally temperance, is the art card.
The 16 is the tower card and then in this deck, it's sometimes known as the house of God,
which is interesting because it's like the tower card is like burning, crumbling things,

(57:25):
going to shit, basically.
So it's a very disastrous card.
I feel like by interpretation, I know that we pulled that out earlier as we were sort
of exploring the deck.
And ours does say the tower.
I thought house of God was interesting, though, because it just reminded me of like God will
smite you.

(57:46):
Feels, it feels very smitey.
Yeah, very smitey.
Very smitey.
A 20 is normally judgment, but in this deck is the aeon or angel.
I think an arse says the aeon.
Aeon?
Yeah, I'm not sure.
On the pronunciation, I don't, I'm not trying to convert.

(58:07):
So I would say aeon, I don't know, because my dog was Shae.
And her was S H A E. So I'm like, Shay, aion, aion.
That's exactly where my head goes to as well.
Okay.
Now, this is really interesting because there's a very clear, this is borrowing, I think, from

(58:28):
potentially multiple cultures, but it feels like this is certainly taking from Hinduism.
Yes, there was a lot of Indian, it's Indian, right?
There was a lot of Indian influence as well.
Typically, I mean, it's other Southeast Asian cultures, I believe as well, but it's primarily
Indian.
That's the ethno association.

(58:51):
Yeah, he did take them.
It was like mostly Egyptian, some Indian, and then a lot of other cultures as well.
So there's like a really mixed bag in here.
That's the aeon?
Aeon?
Aeon.
Yeah.
And I do know, and this is interesting because I don't see this on all of the cards, but
they do know and didn't necessarily include it in my section, but he wasn't one point trying

(59:15):
to learn Arabic.
And I'm not certain, but this is not an easy language to learn.
Not at all.
My ex has been trying to get me to learn it because he was learning it in the military and
it's a lot.
No idea.
It was hard.
This almost looks like it could be an Arabic character.

(59:38):
I'm not familiar enough with the language.
They have every card has a Hebrew symbol on it.
So it might be a Hebrew symbol?
Not all of these.
I read somewhere that a lot like every card has a Hebrew symbol associated with it.
And that's not uncommon.

(01:00:01):
And I'm also not fully versed in Hebrew, but the line between what's Arabic versus Hebrew
of course, I think based on what's happening in our world today, I won't overstep.
I think probably I don't need to explain that that's a very thin line.

(01:00:23):
Right.
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure.
How could you be?
Number 21 is normally the world card.
And this one, this is the one I do like.
And this they call it the universe.
Okay.
I like that.
I like that.
I'm going to find that boy.
Because I mean the universe.

(01:00:44):
The universe.
I just love.
It's a powerful place.
Yeah.
Because the world is like, it's just so small.
The universe is the whole universe, man.
It does seem like very us-centric.
Yeah.
So in this deck, the suits are mostly the same except for pentacles.

(01:01:06):
They call discs.
Yeah.
Oh my God, that was going to drive me insane.
Which I don't.
I guess because he has his own version of a pentacle of pentagram.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I think it's weird.
And you leave all of the other ones the same.
It's just strange to me to leave so much the same but change just like little things.

(01:01:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I want, okay, I almost wonder if maybe they didn't finish the deck before he had passed.
And he'd made all these little changes and then like didn't get to finish making the
changes that he wanted to make and they printed it.
Did he?
Maybe.
I mean, I have no one has any way of knowing really unless it's written somewhere and we

(01:01:48):
pull it out in research.
But if you have an Aleister Crowley notebook just like hanging out and you're adding and
your basements and then one last thing in the traditional deck, it's like the night,
page king, queen and king.
In this deck, it's night, queen, prince and princess.

(01:02:13):
That was very interesting.
I'm looking.
There's no king which is like, okay, bye.
Was the massage and stuff real like is it makes me question.
Does make you wonder a little bit.
I think I have to say I feel like in practice it was still there.
I feel like in practice it was still there.
Unfortunately.
It's weird because I was like wait because I originally thought when I saw prints and

(01:02:39):
prints that it was replacing the night and the page because the page is kind of like a
more feminine, younger figure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But then I was like, no, there's no king.
There's a night, a queen, a prince and a princess.
I think it's weird.
I don't know.
I guess when we go through the interpretations, maybe it will make sense.

(01:03:00):
I was going to say I wouldn't label it as weird.
I would say it might be peculiar.
It's peculiar.
I just think there are societies and entire cultures that have operated as matriarchies.
Right.
I mean, I personally don't need a king.

(01:03:20):
I'm cool with it.
I just think from what I know, what I think I know, it just didn't quite make sense with
that.
It's interesting.
It's really interesting to see the contrast.
I agree.
Yeah.
In that respect, and I'm like not to be silly or argumentative, it's like that makes sense

(01:03:42):
that you would say that's weird.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you have to argue with me.
Little bit.
Just for fun, Z's.
Well, should we go eat some pizza and then do some tarot?
Yeah.
We had a long day of research and recording.
I can't even believe you have to ask. I am so hungry. I was asking more for the audience.

(01:04:04):
I was narrating for the audience. Okay. Tarot? Tarot? Thoth! Thoth, Thoth, Thoth, Thoth, Thoth, Thoth, Thoth!
Pand? Pan? Ah, Pamm. Two m's.
Did you shuffle this earlier, right? I did. I feel like you needed to do another one or no.

(01:04:32):
I think I'm good. Okay. I... Here's the thing I can't. That's true.
Huh! Well? How did you drop them all? Um, interesting. But there happens to be... This is interesting

(01:04:52):
because there's one up. And I'm going to take a picture of it. Everyone's seeing it. Okay.
We're going to add this because I feel like that might be the card. Could be because there's one
just up. It's kind of cute actually. Like you said, it's been a 10-hour day. There's just one up.
Oh, isn't that cool? Yeah. Okay. So it's eight of cups. Indolence? I don't know. Indolence?

(01:05:20):
Indolence? What kind of word is "indolence"? Um, well, this book will not have it because that is
unique to the... I figured we could look it up in the little book and... Yeah. Maybe Google it if we need
to because I don't know if the interpretations are that long. Okay. Eight of cups.

(01:05:44):
"Suit of water, Saturn in Pisces, the Lotus's Drup, the cups are shallow and old, and are arranged in
three rows. The upper row is empty. But it is like, it is still the eight of cups. So we can read the
other book. It just has that extra little word on it. The power is now spent. The water is turned to

(01:06:06):
slide. The flowers' droop, the cups are broken. What does this mean? Is that in the reverse, maybe?
This book is confusing. Okay. So not exactly explicit? No. Not at all. I had no idea like what this
interpretation book was really going to say, but it didn't say a lot. Hmm. Great. That's what we were all

(01:06:31):
hoping for. Okay. Well, and it does equate to the eight of cups. It says it's a dark card where the
cups are broken and have small unstable bases. Wow. Okay. The top row of cups are empty. The middle
cups are filled with water from diseased notices. Wow. The center bottom cup is empty. Okay. What does

(01:07:00):
this mean? I'm so intrigued. So indolence, the definition equates to laziness, inactivity,
dislike of work, lethargic and sluggish are all words that describe it. I feel like we're so
opposite of that though. Yeah. That's very interesting. Huh. Do you think this wasn't our card?

(01:07:28):
I mean, it did just sort of jump out. Yeah. It was very weird how that happened. Like I want more. I
need more. Yeah. I think we are going to have to look for an interpretation book. Well, look at
the book. Yeah. That's fair. We'll look at we can look at the eight of cups and um because that's
all we have for now. Yeah. I kind of feel like this might sound crazy. What? I kind of feel like

(01:07:54):
we're using this person's deck and we're kind of like slamming him a little bit. I kind of slightly
feel trolled because this is like such the opposite of like we were just saying like how hard we worked
and we done all of these amazing things and then it's a little bit. I mean, maybe it speaks more to

(01:08:15):
somebody else's acumen. Maybe. Maybe that could be picking up on somebody else's. I don't know.
I guess maybe we needed to focus more energy on like us. Maybe we weren't thinking enough about us.
This is like his card. Maybe we should draw another one for our card. I feel like this might
I feel like this might be his card because it's um keywords are turning away, cutting losses,

(01:08:43):
decline, dejection and seriousness. You wish things had turned out differently but you can't
salvage a matter and you realize you must abandon it. That makes me think of his relationship.
I mean, I shouldn't show them. But probably a lot of things in this life.

(01:09:05):
It's time to let go and get out of the situation that has failed despite your best efforts.
Move ahead with determination. Find a new direction and learn from your experience.
This is Crowley. All over it. Okay. In a reading about money and investment hasn't paid off or

(01:09:29):
you've lost money through no fault of your own except perhaps not seeing things accurately.
Cut your losses and conserve your resources. Wow. Like a dwindling inheritance.
Yeah. If the reading is about your job, the aid of cups may recommend pouring your heart and soul

(01:09:51):
into in and depper. Which he did. We also do. Don't let distractions throw you off course.
Sometimes this card advises leaving a job that no longer interests you.
Oh, that I could. In a reading about love, this card can mean ending a relationship that's

(01:10:16):
lost its spark. Conversely, it may show you getting serious about a partnership giving it your all.
So he lost one partner but then he got married. Literally the next sentence, you're no longer
interested in casual fling. Oh, wow. Okay. We definitely talked about that.
When you most feel like holding on to something, it is usually the best time to let go.

(01:10:41):
That's our extra excerpt from David Cameron Gikandi, a happy pocket full of money.
That sounds good. I want that one. I mean, I'll take her. Okay. Let me grab these cards because
so I originally was feeling like we should draw to anyway but then I didn't want to make it longer

(01:11:02):
but now I feel like we have to. Yeah, you kind of have to.
Truths. Oh, interesting. Truth is the four of swords. Is that? Yes. Okay.
What does it tell us within our interpretation booklet? The four swords in this card are at the

(01:11:25):
corner of the St. Andrews Cross. Their points are sheathed in a rose of 49 petals. 49 petals.
This represents the establishment of dogma and convention in the realm of intellect.
Interesting. We're not just hat rocks. Just hat rocks. I don't know why there's like two separate

(01:11:49):
types of interpretations. But this one says the formality of the design of the swords, the cross,
and the rose denote intellect bound by rigid convention. Rigid. Interesting. The surrounding
crystals as in all these sword cards contain the hidden names of their guardian angels worked out

(01:12:10):
in numbers on squared paper. It was thought that the air was formed of crystals according to
Pythagoras. This is way too esoteric for me. Yeah, it does. It does seem incredibly esoteric.
Yeah, we're going to have to look. I'm just going to keep saying it like a broken record.

(01:12:33):
We're going to have to look for a better interpretation book. It didn't make me think though of like
we did. It's like us too. And then Chris and Taylyn who also like our big parts and helping with
the podcast. It's like four people. Yeah. The four feels. Yeah, that's true. Okay, interesting. You say
that. Keywords. Rest. Recuperation. Retreat. Solitude. Interspection and recovery. Forse. Symbolized

(01:13:02):
stability. This card represents withdrawing and resting in order to get your bearings after a
time of trouble. Some decks show a night lying down recuperating after an inner or outer battle.
So when do we get our best and relax and recuperate in April the four months? That's true. We are

(01:13:27):
doing a little not staycation but like it'll be four of us too. Oh yeah. Interesting. Weird.
Just saying we literally booked that. Yeah, we did. Often this card means you've been through a
period of difficulty and now you feel the need for introspection and solitude. You're examining

(01:13:48):
what you've experienced trying to understand what it all means so you can plan for your future.
This is the calm after the storm card. Sometimes it shows you're starting to recover after physical
illness or injury. Weird. Interreading about money the upright for or discussion and discrimination.

(01:14:11):
Maybe you need to separate yourself from a financial issue. This card can also suggest you feel
overwhelmed by financial burdens and need a rest. I mean that's kind of true. Don't we?
If the reading is about your job you probably feel burned out at work and need a vacation. Yeah.

(01:14:33):
Things people have said to my face. I feel also like as much as we I like love the podcast. Wouldn't change
a thing. We made it to 200. Very celebratory. But I am burnt out. I know. I think we literally kind of
got to a point where it's just like in every aspect of life we were like we kind of just need to give

(01:14:57):
ourselves a little bit of a respite. Like I said we booked it's booked. It's booked. I mean I'm hoping for
calming healing vibes. Yeah. But it's like just one day and yeah it's not really gonna
stop any podcast work from going so I feel like it's gonna be like relaxing but not really.

(01:15:19):
Yeah. Yeah. We're still gonna record and then we'll go and check it. Yeah. For our relaxing.
Like we'll still be working. Yeah. It's true. It's true. After a period of stress, confusion or
difficulty or maybe all three you may be sorting things out clearing your head and regaining your

(01:15:41):
strength. In a reading about love the upright for can mean carving out some time for yourself.
I feel like we definitely need to do that. Yeah. Challenges in a relationship may have left you
feeling drained or discouraged. Look within to discover your true needs and how you need to

(01:16:02):
restore balance or how you can restore balance. Wow. Okay. That was a brilliant flip.
In introduction to tarot, Susan Levitt writes, unfortunately the mind is too often filled with worry
doubt and fear or the mind absorbs information that has little to do with the souls in her workings.

(01:16:24):
To counteract this she recommends meditation yoga deep breathing chanting prayer long walks
and bats. Bats. Bats. Soaking. We're gonna do that. That's bad. This reminded me of the beginning where

(01:16:46):
I was saying 200 represented like endurance and then it also said trust and
hang in there basically. You've worked really hard. Hang in there. Things are coming but maybe also
take some time for yourself and don't totally burn out on it. Yeah. It's hard to know when you're

(01:17:09):
striking the right balance. I know especially because you want like we want this to work so bad. Yeah.
Well, I think we're done. I think that's that. You know what's interesting too? We got an eight and a
four and you know what eight divided by four is two. And all connects. Is that a pop quiz? Your

(01:17:33):
bench. I was actually saying it. I was like wait, am I right? Let's easy math. I'm okay. I'm pretty confident.
I feel like I'm pretty tired but I think that's two. I mean two. We talk about two. We talk about
200. I mean, it connects. You know, maybe. Maybe. Well, we're getting delusional. Let's get on here.

(01:17:57):
This is a great up 200 partner. We have learned so much today. And we actually actually we had so
much fun and we're fully delirious and exhausted and it's time for us to go but it's been a good one.
We should have more research pizza, cinnamon roll, cinnamon, what's it called cinnamon wheel?

(01:18:21):
It was a cinnamon wheel and Always Sunny. We should have those days all the time. Oh boy.
And why? Hello. And brunch. We had mimosas this morning. We did. We did. We really had a full day.
I had my three square meals with this gal. As long as we count the cinnamon bread, my third meal.

(01:18:47):
100%. I got 200%. Yeah. Yeah. Should we do the thing that we do? Yeah, we should probably do the thing.
200th time. Oh my God. Have a creepy ass day. We will see you next Tuesday. We're not going anywhere.
Seriously, we don't even know what to do with ourselves. So I can't even imagine the life without

(01:19:10):
doing this. So what would I do? Who could say? Thanks for listening for 200 episodes.
We're going to go before we start crying. She's got no tears. It's not true. I just rewetted my eyes.
Onion! Onion! I'm not Dennis! Oh, that's perfect.

(01:19:34):
[BLANK_AUDIO]