Fort Vancouver’s Bicentennial: Historic Haunted Houses, Mysteries, & Murder

Join us as we explore the fascinating history and hauntings of Fort Vancouver! Built in 1825, this iconic site marks its 200th anniversary this year. Originally a fur trading post for the Hudson’s Bay Company, Fort Vancouver has a rich, complex history—colonial expansion on Indigenous communities, military takeovers, and lost gravesites.

We dive into the hauntings of Officer’s Row, the Vancouver Barracks, and the infamous Post Hospital. From phantom touches to moving safes, ringing phones, and murder mysteries, there’s no shortage of supernatural activity here!

Tangents about previous episodes include:
Episode 44: Ghosts of McLoughlin House
Episode 155: Haunted Port Townsend: Spirits of Point Wilson Lighthouse | Espooky Tales
Episode 55: Legend of Bandage Man
Episode 194: Exploring Places Forgotten: The Allure of Abandon Architecture

Visit our website! Find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Patreon, & more! If you have any true crime, paranormal, or witchy stories you'd like to share with us & possibly have them read (out loud) on an episode, email us at [e-mail] or use this link. There are so many ways that you can support the show: BuyMeACoffee, Spreaker, or by leaving a rating & review on Apple Podcasts. Sources

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Just casually an 80 pound safe that was locked in the weapons vault room in that

(00:07):
basement with a very secure combination physical key and keypad they said it
had moved from the other side of the wall so I don't know if they mean that like
the opposite side of the room or just like down the wall a little bit but
either way an 80 pound safe in this locked-ass room moved

(00:32):
Hi Caitlyn! Hi Cassie! Hi creepy people! I don't really care I just hit my
hand on the desk. I was like I don't know if I heard that in my ears or in you
know what I mean and my headphones are in. I mean if you guys heard it that's the

(00:54):
kind of pain that I go through on a daily basis for you so that's so
weird. Welcome. That was your right elbow. It was my hand. Oh okay I whacked my
right elbow when I was in my bathroom getting ready I whacked it's soul.
Furking hard. I thought for you! Yes! I thought you were going to come

(01:20):
like around the corner and be like "are you okay?" Did you scream? I didn't hear it. I
didn't hear anything. I thought I must have been so loud I thought for sure you
were going to. Maybe I'll have water on or something. Yeah I'm sure you didn't
hear me. I thought I was being louder than probably I really was. Or maybe I
just think "oh Caitlyn's just in there yelling it's fine." I hear like it's fine. She

(01:42):
does what she does. She does stuff you know. I never know what she's doing.
Well if you're new here we don't just talk about how we hurt ourselves for you.
We also talk about true crime and paranormal in the- I forgot to say our name. We are
PNW Haunts and Homicides and we also talk about true crime and the paranormal and

(02:06):
a bunch of other spooky weird stuff in the Pacific Northwest. It's PNW. It's our
name. PNW if you're nasty! Because it's nasty. So nasty when we whack ourselves for
you. I know. Speaking of nasty I'm like oh God is the
bruise already forming? Kind of looks like you have one. Oh it does. Kind of.
Your elbow is just red like that. Oh no it does kind of look bruised. Okay well

(02:30):
there you go. Well we did it. And we also do a tarot reading at the end of
every episode for a little deeper insight into our topic. Is that what we do? Yeah
so stick around if you're into that. Yeah. Alright. Okay well I have a story for
you today so it's obviously haunted. Okay. I'm gonna go into it right now. I did

(02:55):
not make I hate when I do that. I didn't make like a formal start. I was just like
history. I think that's a very official start. I think we should leave that in. Okay
history. Well let's talk a little bit about the history of Fort Vancouver. It was

(03:16):
built in March of 1825 making this their 200th anniversary. Oh yeah. Is that crazy?
Yeah. So this was originally part of our 200th episode because I was like oh
200 and we ended up scrapping it and talking about something else that we wanted

(03:37):
to talk about. Yeah it was wild times here in the pot life that day. That was fun. We
should do more spontaneous stuff more often. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's gonna work out
pretty well. I feel like that was a fun topic. I think so too. Hey listen we just go where
we are guided. Yes and then we have a full ass other episode for another time. Yeah.

(03:59):
And this is the time and this is the time. So what was originally a British or French
Canadian bird trading post? I was kind of confused because some of them called it
British. Some of them called it French Canadian but I think that is it like the same thing?
Well no but I think it's possible that over time it may be changed like changed hands.

(04:25):
Oh maybe. I don't know. I didn't like deep dive into this portion of it. Yeah. So I mean
either way or maybe they both had posts up there. I mean they did have the trading company
had posts all over the place. So it was British or French Canadian. We don't know. Post.
You know. All the posts. It is now a 366 acre national historic site. Oh wow. It was

(04:54):
the PNW base of operations for the Hudson Bay Company. Yeah. For the HPC if you're nice
if you're nice and they kind of work. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get it get into a little bit of it.
I don't know. Not to get too political or anything. So they'd move from Fort George and

(05:17):
Astoria when the sea otter population drastically declined. They were killing them for their
effort. I had a guess. Yeah. So they moved inland finding a vast beaver population. Oh boy.
Yes. So then they were into beaver pelt. Beaver fur. Really into those beavers. A beaver fur.

(05:39):
Am I right? Don't be pulling on other people's beaver fur. Oh my god. That story lives rent-free
in my mind. Oh god. It has been a long time since I thought about that. I think about
it every day. It's my Roman empire. And if you don't know what we're talking about, join the
Patriot. Oh my god. That was so good. Well, it was like mud-wrestling in the rain. Yeah.

(06:03):
Oh. And beaver. Beaver fur pulling. That's all I'm going to say. Like old tiny and just wild.
It was like Jerry Springer let loose on the 1930s. So fun. I want to go back and just witness.
I know in this that wild times. Or be a part of it. Maybe I'll be the beaver pullin. Beaver

(06:28):
fur pulling. Hussey. I was trying to bitch. I was like, I can't think of another beaver.
What's another beaver? Anyway. For Vancouver had a rich diverse culture. People coming from
everywhere to work and to trade. But they also wanted to have peaceful relations with

(06:49):
the indigenous people that were already living there. So they made efforts to employ and be
friends of them. Okay. You've been encouraging their employees to marry Native women to establish
kinship, hoping to break down any trade barriers. Interesting. Okay. Okay. I was like, that sounds

(07:10):
nice. Right. And then that last part though, I was like, well, I don't know. And then there's
kind of this flip side to that where it might be obvious to other people knowing some of the
history. But it wasn't really to me at first until I read this quote from Fort Vancouver's
chief trader, Dr. John McLaughlin. Oh, my sound familiar to you guys. I'll tell you in a second.

(07:38):
Yeah. Because we talked about him before. We have his quote. It is proved by experience that the
only way to gain the confidence of Indians, that's what they called him, which is actually probably
better than what a lot of people were right. Yeah. And keep in mind, this is not an American trading
post at this point. It's the British French Canadian. Yeah. He says quote, it is proved by experience

(08:03):
that the only way to gain the confidence of Indians and influence over them is by having
establishments on their lands. Okay. So like that to me, the part influenced over them, it kind of just,
it feels like it feels icky. Yeah. That's literally what I wrote. It gives me the ick. Like they're basically
just being nice so that they can take their things without an uprising is kind of what it sounded like to me.

(08:29):
Yeah, that's the vibe. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like encouraging their employees to marry
a native woman. Just I don't know. I don't know. Encouraging sounds ick again icky to me. Yeah. I mean,
I know that colonizing was a popular pastime amongst white men of the time, but really colonizing

(08:51):
female thought, well, why am I surprised? I know. I mean, I know it's what happened. It's just
interesting to just like see it all and see these people quotes. Yeah. Talking about it. Yeah. So.
Yeah. It's just kind of icky. It's like, I don't know. I don't know. Is that better than just like coming in
and killing everyone? Because they're going to come in and take it either way. I mean, I guess that

(09:15):
maybe there's some truth to that. I mean, not to be an apology. Right. No. But it's just so sad.
Hopefully there's like a grain of like wanting, like you said, to sort of like establish
good relationship. Yeah. Keep it a peaceful place and not have people. Yeah. Yeah. So. I mean, we all know what

(09:37):
happened, but okay. So quickly about Dr. John McLaughlin. So we talked about him way back in
episode 44. Holy shit. I know about the McLaughlin house hauntings. And so he is known as the father
of Oregon. And we didn't really go into it in that episode. But this is an official title given to

(09:58):
him by the Oregon Legislative Assembly in 1957. Okay. He has a statue and everything. Yeah. He does.
And many things in Oregon are named after him. Schools. A boulevard. A bridge. A mountain. I think we
talked about the mountain lots of stuff. Lots of stuff. And he was known as the father of Oregon because

(10:20):
he provided aid to many of its settlers. Oh. Yeah. Okay. Also, this is so random. But I love the word
boulevard. I do too. I don't know why. Yeah. It's just satisfying to look at and say boulevard. Yeah.
Above. Yeah. Listen, I don't know. Not to be like elitist about it or anything. And I, you know,

(10:44):
but boulevard sounds way cooler than just like street. Yeah. Yeah. Come to think of it. I think for a lot
of my life, I've lived on like a lane or a parkway or a court. I like court too.
Court sounds like, you know, I'm the queen of my court. I know.

(11:05):
Caitlin, the clip, clip, clip, clip. A court. Such and such. Two people who just live in apartments are
dreaming about living on streets someday. One day. We'll live together in a compound
and have tunnels. I was going to say, where do you think, I mean, do we establish the compound on

(11:31):
like a parkway? I think boulevard. I think we make up our own. Yeah. I don't know what it would be,
but we're gonna make up our own. Okay. We'll workshop it and get back to you. Okay. Anyway. Any
who's old. Any who's old. Everything changed in the late 1940s. The army came in to the post and

(11:52):
kind of just started taking things over. They eventually took like so much over that the post wasn't
getting any business really anymore. And they swooped them out of there basically. Okay. So,
yeah, they just took it over and put it right on the business. This is ours now. Thanks.
Okay. Thanks. Bye. Which like you kind of just did that to the Native American people, but, you know,

(12:18):
this probably wasn't as nice. They probably weren't as encouraging of nice relations. Yeah, maybe not.
Yeah. Yeah. They were busy, you know, trying to do what is it? Establish the border, I think,
is that was like their main goal. Well, you said 1940. It was the late. I think it was like 18,

(12:38):
you know, 18, like 49. Oh, I was like 40s. Again, we're going back to my role, right? Which is, you know,
as we know, World War II. Yeah. Not quite there yet. Okay. 1840s. 1840s. I mean, far less interesting to me,
but I'm, I'll hear you out. I was a dick thing. Just like I'm interested in it.

(12:59):
They even allegedly took over. Actually, I don't even think it's allegedly. They like took over some
of the colonial graveyard they had going on there. And we'll kind of get into some of that later,
but they put like a parade field, a housing area. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like just over top of it.

(13:20):
They dug up some of them. Oh, we're going to get to the rest of that at the very end. Okay, great.
I'm just going to go ahead and I mean, I feel like that's such a big theme with, with, we'll talk
about it later. We'll talk about it later. Right. Well, here in preparation, I have gone ahead and
scooted, scoot, scoot, scoot. Fort Vancouver was an active military institution for 150 years

(13:47):
and was very significant in settling the PNW. PNW. Pacific Northwest. Wow. Pacific Northwest.
Nice to wear. Oh boy. Yeah. This is a quote from their site. And I just wanted to read it because
I love now that a lot of places are really acknowledging the past and how it affected people

(14:11):
in good and also some very awful ways. Yeah. So we can celebrate these kinds of historical milestones,
but also have respect and remembrance for the lives that it negatively affected. Yeah, just,
I feel like more transparency. Yeah. With their good or bad, just, you know, like this is really what

(14:31):
happened. Right. Whitewash fucking everything forever. Just be factual. That's okay. Yeah. Yeah.
So we're starting to get there. So their website says quote, March 19th, 2025, marks the 200th
anniversary of Fort Vancouver on March 19th, 1825. Okay. In this year, we honor the indigenous people

(14:53):
who have cared for this land since time in memorial. Remember the far reaching effects of the
fur trade centered out Fort Vancouver and stride forward to a new century of storytelling.
I like it. So I'm like, they're they're working on things and their website has like a ton of
historical information on it. Like, yeah, that's so cool. This is coming out 318. So that means

(15:16):
tomorrow is their 200th anniversary. Yeah. Pretty cool. Pretty cool how that worked out. I think so.
Kim Nason, you photos. So we're going to go on and talk about some of these houses that are
just gorgeous on Fort Vancouver. And this is known as officers row. It consists of 21 Victorian

(15:42):
mansions, Victorian again. Listen, okay. I just have a major real estate boner. Right. I know. That's
why I say I've shown you pictures. This is a row of 21 Victorian mansions originally built for
military families. They fell into disrepair when the military was no longer stationing people there.

(16:04):
But they were listed on the national list of historic places and were renovated. So now they're
rented out as townhouses and business offices. And they are just gorgeous. They look like Victorian
homes. Do you want to describe them? I mean, well, I'm trying to scroll through down. Yeah. I think

(16:25):
it's like the top one is what most of those 21 houses look like. I feel like they look really big
for just like military families to live in. And it does have it looks like maybe not a wrap around
porch, but like a really big porch. And then one of those like turret things. Is that what is called a
turret? I don't know if that would be called a tur- I mean, could be that almost looks more like

(16:51):
like a bell tower. Yeah. But I feel like they kind of similar thing. I don't know. It has a tower
on it. It's freaking good. It's a tower. It's Victorian. You guys know what that look is. Yeah. You'll
see it. They're so pretty. There's 21 of those that they like re-re-renovated. They renovated.
Re-renovated. And there are a bunch of other really gorgeous homes. We'll talk about at least one

(17:17):
one other one down here. But we all know what happens and things get renovated. Oh, shit. Why
put my foot down? Okay. So paranormal activity obviously picks up. And oh, I forgot about this part.
Oh, and this is some of the housing that I referred to earlier where they might be on top of some

(17:40):
of those colonial graves. Okay. Whoa. Okay. Just just kidding about my thoughts of maybe relocating.
Yeah, I don't know if you want to live in these. No. They sound pretty haunted. So in some of the
homes, people have felt cold spots, which I'm feeling right now. I am a walking cold spot.

(18:02):
Doors open and closing, opening and closing, but steps. People even have even felt a phantom
touch. I don't like that. Yeah, especially since you have been phantom touched. Yeah.
Careful. Fones will ring even when they're unplugged because I'm like, phones ring. Okay. But like,

(18:30):
if you want, they're the old phone. They're not cell phones. Okay. They're like landlines plugged
into the wall. They have to have power. Yeah. They're not battery operated. Okay. I don't like that.
And I guess the coffee seems to go missing from the coffee pot, which I'm like really offended by.
I think that's kind of funny. It is. I don't know. I guess you know like what to leave as an offering

(18:53):
for them. That's true. Just make a little extra coffee in your pot. Honestly, I feel like that would be
one of those things that I might not notice for like a long time, but then Chris, the OCD to my
ADHD would be like, I know exactly how much coffee there was. And that would be the thing that would

(19:17):
make him start to question. It's going on in this house. Where's the coffee going? The coffee going.
It's not like me where I forget that I've already had two cups and I'm like, wait, where'd all the coffee go?
Why is it going? I drink it. That's where it's gone. That can happen. That can happen. That has

(19:37):
happened to me. Have you ever done that though? Were you like go to like reach for that you're
drinking or like the last of your food and you look down to the god? I eat it all. I don't know if that's
some like disorder eating shit or something. Well, then I'm not going to say one more. I was going to say
never mind. Okay. I was going to say I feel like that frequently happens when I look down at like

(20:03):
my wine glass. I don't want to be. It's like I have a hauler shirt right there. Well, that's what I'm
makes it sound really bad. No, I think it's more just like an ADHD type of thing where you're like
your focus is on yeah, your focus is on something else whether it's like TV or whatever you're doing
and you're just like absentmindedly eating or drinking and then all of a sudden it's come by by.

(20:26):
Yeah. Anybody who knows me knows that I've never been known to do one single thing at a time.
No, impossible. Yeah. So this house is the oldest house in officers row and it is the grant house built
in 1949 as the first commanding officers quarters of Ulysses S. Grant. But granted and actually lived there.

(20:52):
It's okay too excited. I guess they just built in my house and was like you can stay here if you want
and then he was like no, I don't really care. I got a bigger house somewhere else. Yeah. Which is like he
did live in another house somewhere else. All right, well, you know, they used the building as an
officers club and residents for high ranking visiting officials. It has beautiful wrap around covered

(21:19):
verandas on the first and the second floor. Oh, I'm sorry. Wrap around covered verandas. Oh,
I'm here for that. I'm I always want like a second floor like balcony. Yeah, it's goals in life.
It doesn't have to be a wraparound, but I mean, that would be great. Yeah. That'd be really awesome.
Today it is the Grant House Folk Art Center and Grant House restaurant. Oh, yeah.

(21:47):
So I don't so people don't live there anymore. It's just like an art museum type of thing in a restaurant.
Okay, but we could go and eat there and just pretend that we live there. Maybe. I don't know what
the rooms look like. I don't know if they have like beds and shit. Well, it doesn't matter. We're
just pretending. Well, we'll see if you still want to go there after this. Oh, okay.
I forgot. I forgot what day it was. What we were talking about. We forgot that Cassie is literally

(22:13):
ruining every cool thing that ever happened in the Pacific Northwest. You said it. You said it.
I'm nasty. You're nasty. There's a known spirit at the restaurant named Sully. And that is a real
person general general Alfred Sully commander of Vancouver Barracks from 1874 to 1879. So I guess

(22:39):
five years. I was thinking of a different Sully and I was like, I don't think he's a ghost. Not
a Tom Higgs. Yeah. It's not Tom Higgs. I was thinking about my movies right. Okay. Yeah. You nailed it.
I've never even seen that movie. Yeah. I think you. Yeah. The guy who landed the plane on the way. Yeah.

(23:02):
Yeah. They hit the Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise. No, Tom Cruise would have had to have made up some sort of
a scene where he jumped out of the plane if he hopefully landed on something pokey.
Allegedly. People in the restaurant get a strange sense of his presence and get the feeling that he's

(23:27):
supervising. Oh, yeah. Okay. People here and see. Okay. Oh, him. It says his. It's supposed to him. Oh,
people here and see him pacing the halls. Okay. I was like, see his what pace at all. His balls.

(23:47):
Out on the verandas, people have seen a tall man in a long old-fashioned coat with a beard.
And I don't know if that's solely or somebody else, but I Google pictures of him and he does have a beard.
So it could be him. Came in to ask you the question that I think everybody wants to know. See,

(24:08):
hot. Yeah. Was he hot? I don't remember. I just googled. I literally just googled to see if he had a beard.
Let's let's Google him again. I mean, he has a beard. So I'm just going to assume that you thought he
was hot. I don't know. I feel like a lot of like old tiny military men aren't my thing. You know,
interesting. No, it was not the kind of beard that I not that not the hotness. It was just like a must-stack.

(24:33):
Oh, like that. Like the handlebar type situation or that and a small beard, like a pointy one and
then nothing on the side. I like a full. Yeah, you're it's a lumberjack look for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Okay. Well, listen, I ask the hard-hitting questions. She does. She is a journalist.
Okay. Let's move on to the barracks. So building 993 as of 2013 at least is occupied by the

(25:00):
Washington Army National Guard. Oh, so they still kind of use this place. This was 2013. So up to
2025. I'm not sure if they are still using it. Okay. Yeah. But people say the building has just like
a general creepy vibe. Cool. Just in general. But especially the basement of the West Wing.

(25:21):
People get strong feelings of someone watching them like enough to where you actually turn around
because you keep like thinking somebody is there. I don't like that either. I've only felt like
that like a couple of times in my life and it's very uncomfortable. You've only felt like that a
couple of times in your life. I told you things don't happen to me. We are living such different lives.

(25:46):
And I really can only think of the one time. I can't even think of the second time where this
apparently has happened to me. I can only think of one time. And I was like cleaning a house and I
so uncomfortable. I know clue what was in that house, but it's very uncomfortable. That is
crazy. Yeah. They cleaned tons of houses. And I clean creepy houses that don't even phase me. I clean

(26:09):
a haunted house where the TV kept turning on. It didn't even like it didn't feel creepy. But that
house for some reason is so weird. And it was just like a normal townhouse. I could attach to other
houses like so strange. Yeah. I've literally had that feeling like more than once in the same day.
So you're gonna say yeah right now. I mean no not specifically. Are you sure like it's not your

(26:33):
dog watching you? That creature. Using with her back turned you to nose buried in the couch.
She is like so passed out. Well we'll have to come back to this and you'll have to tell us all
of your stories about when you felt like you were being watched. Some of them are just such small
little things. It's like it barely even feels like there's a story there because you just like

(26:57):
get that creepy feel. Yeah. I don't know. But it is a thing like people just get creepy vibes places
and this is one of them. Okay. There's a lot of stories of stuff moving around unexplainably.
Like big stuff. Okay. I was gonna say because I feel like I forget where I put things all the time.
And it's really hard to like not feel like you're crazy. Yeah. You like just lose stuff in your own

(27:22):
home. Which I do all the time. But this is like big stuff. So. Okay. Someone cleaning the floor said
stack chairs up against one wall. And when they came back after the weekend they found that the
chairs were against the inside door blocking the door from opening. Oh shit. Right. I don't know if
they asked if anyone was in there. I imagine they'd asked around and you know seen if anyone else

(27:45):
was in there. But why would someone stack them against the door? Right. And how? I feel like
yeah. Kind of the question like didn't they leave the room? Right. And maybe there's two entrances
to the room. I had to have been right. I'm not 100% sure. It didn't really say. But that's very

(28:06):
curious if there was only one door into that place. And then. But like they climbed out a window.
Yeah. What the hell? But also it was over the weekend. So like no one would be there working or
cleaning. And this place isn't it's not like a bustling military place anymore. It's just like
there's some offices here and there. Some people who live there. But it's not like constantly being

(28:29):
cleaned or like having people in these buildings. So I don't know that there would be really someone
there on the weekend moving chairs around. Yeah. That doesn't seem the one thing I could see.
And this is more just like out on a limb here. I feel like this seems like a almost like a
ferris-bueller type thing where like they come. Yes. Yeah. This seems like could be like a teenage

(28:54):
prank. Right. Where literally they go and they stack all the chairs and like block the door.
And then they claim out the window because they're like I'm a fucking teenager and I don't care.
I'll jump out the window. That's just kind of how would they get in? I don't know if there's a
security system. I don't. But I mean that's a little bit of a stretch. Yeah. I mean it's possible.
But it's still weird either way. It is very weird. Yeah. I feel like that almost speaks to like an

(29:20):
energy of weirdness that like convinced a group of teenagers. If it was a group of teenagers that
did it. Yeah. Like what's what's driving them to? Right. Because that's a weird prank. Yeah.
To just put chairs in front of the door. Oh it's weird. You think they would do more stuff.
Like toilet paper in the inside. Yeah. Yeah. Unless they heard it was haunted and they're like let's

(29:43):
just do some weird stuff and make them think it was go make the cleaner. Think of his ghost.
Like why do they care if the janitor thinks there's ghosts? Yeah. It's kind of weird. Yeah.
And they just specifically say that they walked the room. They do say room.
So I'm like I'm thinking this is just like one room and not like why would it have multiple
entrances? Well I mean I guess it depends on like the size of the room. Like if it was like a large

(30:11):
like common area space of a building. Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. But I'm also like I don't know if they
locked it up. It's just odd. But it gets weirder. Okay. It gets weirder. So just casually an 80 pound safe
that was locked in the weapons vault room in that basement with a very secure combination physical

(30:36):
key and key pad. Okay. They said it had moved from the other side of the wall. So I don't know if they
mean that like the opposite side of the room or just like down the wall a little bit. But either way
an 80 pound safe in this locked ass room. Okay. Moved. Okay. Whether it was like across the room or

(30:59):
just down the wall. That's weird. I'm gonna grab this instead because if I keep going this way
I'm going to end this episode uh bald. Yeah. No. Like the hair touching thing is one of my it's a very
like self-saving thing for me. But I'm gonna switch to the rock. That I don't know. That just makes me

(31:24):
think the chair thing is even more weird because like this room is so locked. No teenagers are
breaking into this room. Okay. Yeah. That all right. Well. Yeah. Key. Key code. It's the it's their
weapons vault. So that's not like I'm sure it has alarms on it. Like it's not um secure. So that's

(31:45):
weird. All right. Well that was that was sort of a like I said that was a little bit of a of a reach.
You're gonna love this one too. Okay. Great. So the fire alarm has a mind of its own constantly beeping
at odd times and maintenance has been unable to figure out why someone working in the building said
it almost felt as if the alarm was like messing with him. Like it would beep when his back was turned

(32:10):
in with stop when he went into the direction of the basement. So I felt like it was like trying to like
like hot or cold like beep beep beep don't come over here and then like you're going over that way
it stops annoying you. You know like when you've got a gas lighting ghost like that one time where
my AirPods were just like missing and then all of a sudden they were like in plain sight.

(32:33):
So this is when we were on the trip with Christina. Yeah. And I had the weirdness of like oh I felt
something cold and then it felt like almost like we thought it was maybe the cat. Right. The cat
goes into a touch. Yeah. And then I think it was that next morning when we were on that trip that
I couldn't find my AirPods and I was like they fall out in my sleep all the time all the time.

(32:57):
I mean that's normal like they I if you thrash right move around in your sleep like I do. Of course
they're going to fall out you know and they were in the bed but I had already done like a sweep
of the whole bed and yeah. I don't like that. Have you ever had your AirPods fall out and you

(33:21):
think it's like a spider? I did that one time I fully smack myself in the face because it like
kind of trickled out of my ear and then down my neck and I was like spider I woke up and I hit myself
and it was just my AirPods falling out of my ear. Honestly I think a spider is touching me at probably
at least once a week and more often than not it's my own hair. Same. I feel like that's why

(33:45):
someday something actually serious might happen to me and Chris will be like. It's probably fine.
I like the boy who crawled. Criled world. Oh gosh. You're the girl who cried spider.
And the girl who cried spider. I mean better safe than sorry. Yes. Absolutely.

(34:07):
Okay so we're going to move on to another building. 647.
Doors left close and locked will be found open. You're just so care about locks.
They have a boundary issues. They really do. They need to be set straight. I think so. Yeah. One night

(34:27):
a custodian placed tape over the door to check for tampering which is like very smart. Is that it?
Is someone fucking with me? Let's put tape on the door. In the next day the door was found unlocked.
The tape was not broken. So riddle me that. So I'm like I don't know. Did you put tape over

(34:49):
like the lock part? I'm not sure where he put the tape. Yeah. That's interesting. I'm like could
you have peeled it off? Right. Like someone put the tape back. I don't know. Oh they put new tape
or I don't know. Maybe. Yeah. If they just like put tape over like the lock part where you put the key.
Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. But who brings tape with them when they're breaking it somewhere?

(35:14):
It's just part of your B&E kit. Great. Now we're giving people hints. You know what you have to do is do
like what the magicians do and like sign the piece of tape. Oh yeah. And take like a picture of it
or something. So you have like evidence of what it looked like and maybe make it in a way so no one

(35:35):
can recreate it or something. Yeah. Yeah. Chris has done that. Could it be smarter than the criminals?
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He's done that with tape or just like something else. I know he's done it with tape.
I was like does he do close-up magic? No. No. God I wish. You know. So hot. You guys close-up magic.

(35:59):
So hot right now. I'm gonna save someone where to come do close-up magic for me. I'd probably like
be into it. If you're gonna show me anything I'm probably into it. I have a problem. Are you just
like oh you're just paying attention to me? No because I'm just like into any... If someone's really
excited about something like I get it. I'm like into it. Yeah. And I want you to tell me all about it

(36:20):
but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm into you. Right. You're just like catching their vibe. Yeah.
Yeah. I can totally relate to that. Yeah. Although for me it's more about like you're just paying
attention to me. But anyways in 1904 one of the most modern and efficient military hospitals was
built soon after World War One hit. Sorry we're still not to World War Two. God. So this is built soon

(36:46):
after World War One hit and the hospital was overrun with injured soldiers. Yeah that'll happen. Yeah.
But also took on workers from the areas lumber mills. So oh there could have been some lumber
decks up in there. I was gonna say famously a lot of injured people in World Wars and also

(37:07):
I don't know. I don't know. Lumber stuff. You remember bandage man? Sure do. Yeah. Lumber mill guy.
And they also dealt with a flu epidemic. So they just had a lot of people in there. Yeah that's
the World War One era. Yeah. I feel like just narnar. During this time the hospital had less than

(37:28):
400 beds but was treating over 2,550 patients per month. I'm sorry. Need you to say the numbers again?
The hospital had less than 400 beds. Okay. And was treating over 2,550 patients a month.
Okay. Yeah. And I thought that was what you said. That doesn't feel like the math maps but I trust you.

(37:54):
I mean I can't make the I can't make it make sense. Not that all that all those 220
let's just say 2500. Yeah. But 2500 people were there at the same time. But the amount of turnover.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's insane. And I imagine like especially some of the injured soldiers were there
for a while in the flu. Yeah. The people with the flu. I don't know. Like it seems like these people

(38:18):
needed to maybe be it wasn't just like here's a bandaid and a shot and you get to go home. Yeah.
I feel like famously World War One soldiers. Not a lot of injuries resolved with bandage.
Yeah. Hot tape. Yeah. Probably not a lot of soldiers at any point in any wars. Yeah.
At any time. I don't think you go to the hospital for band-aids. Yeah. The post hospital closed in 1946.

(38:45):
So wait, right in time for World War Two. No more wars. Yeah. No. I mean that's like the baby boomer era.
Yeah. So I don't know how many people they had been treating at that point. For World War Two,
I'm not really sure. Yeah. And then it was used for administration until the 90s and has been mostly

(39:08):
vacant since. Oh. Okay. And obviously going back to the time where they were treating those 2500
patients per month with only 400 beds. Yeah. Obviously they weren't able to cure all of these people.
Yeah. I was assuming that with that many people being seen on average each month, probably not

(39:30):
everybody was living. Oh, yep. Yeah. So they did end up with more bodies than they could fit in the
morgue. That's not. Unfortunately. Yeah. No. So they apparently had to use whatever available space
they could, including a shed that was on the property. Oh, no. And the shed was eventually torn down.

(39:51):
I can't imagine why. I was going to say probably it was condemned for bad vibes. Uh, or I just
picked like I hate this visual, but I just picked like stacking bodies up against like the walls.
And then like what is on the wall? I don't know. I don't know if that's how it was. I'm sure that they were.
It's very of that era. Yeah. Unfortunately. Um, I feel like the stacking of bodies, we hear that

(40:17):
in a different context typically of that time, but I don't know. They could have been on tables.
It could have been very proper. And I don't know. I'm just that's the visual I have. And like please
tear the shed down. Right. Yeah. Maybe get that out of here. Um, but no, no grass or anything
would ever grow there again after they tore down the shed. So I feel like just bad dead energy.

(40:42):
Have they tried miracle grow? No, but they, uh, they tried making it into a parking lot, which usually
works for bad vibe areas where things won't grow. I feel like we've heard that before so many times.
Like things won't grow there. Let's just put parking lots fine.
They've paradise, put a parking lot. Yeah. But I mean, if it can't be used for you don't want to put

(41:03):
building there. I feel like parking lots sometimes are just like creepy vibes. Yeah. And that's probably
why. It makes sense. That tracks for me. So there's a man named Jeff Davis that runs tours of Fort
Vancouver, like historical and paranormal tours. And he has several military history and paranormal

(41:26):
books, uh, including weird Washington and weird Oregon, which I had set out on my show when we start.
He's also, of course, done paranormal investigations around Fort Vancouver for all, like in multiple
buildings on Fort Vancouver. And when he did at the post hospital that we just talked about, he experienced

(41:51):
unusual battery drain. So, you know, you start off with like, I was literally just complaining about
this. You start off with a full battery. Yeah. Everything's turned off. You turn it back on and then
it's like completely dead. So yeah. That's like the, that's the only thing that consistently happens

(42:12):
to you. That's, I feel like feels like it could be spooky. Right. And maybe it's just a thing. I don't
know. Is it a thing to fully charge your laptop and then shut it down and then expect to have it
completely charged when you turn it on? Like, what, where does the bad, where does the life go?
Where does the battery go? We don't know. So stuff like that where you know, you pull out a camera

(42:35):
and expect it to be fully charged, right? How you left it and it's dead. And it's super not.
So like the ghosts, uh, theoretically use that energy to manifest and do things. Um, that's the theory
anyway. I like that as theories go. So when he would start to move into the patient's wing, his

(42:57):
camera battery would suddenly die after having a full charge. Oh, so sorry. There was a little bit more
detail on that that I just like talked and talked and didn't even get to. So that is interesting. It
is it wasn't just like when he got there, it was when he moved into the patient's wing that the
full charge just would drain. Yeah, that's interesting. He said he would use the women's restroom

(43:21):
while he was there because I think he said it was like the closest or like maybe it was the only
one working because I don't think the the building was mostly vacant. So I don't know if they have
like multiple working bathrooms or you know, there wasn't like women in and out of there. So it was
just like the closest back, right? And he decided to use it. And he was the only one like taking people

(43:43):
on tours in there. So like everyone knows like he's in the women's bathroom. So yeah, it wasn't like a
creepy thing. But either way, he found that all the toilet seats were up, which I think is pretty normal
for like cleaners to do when you clean that either leave it up or you leave it down. I don't know.
Some cleaners choose to leave it up. Some put it down. And I feel like I always encounter where

(44:08):
they leave it up. Yeah. And I feel like particularly in the women's room, it's kind of like, I don't
know when you clean like an office base or like any sort of a building, I just feel like don't just
put things back the way you found it. Right. Yeah. I don't know. I sort of get it because it's like if
you're leaving it up, that's less of a chance for you to forget to clean it. Like I don't know,

(44:28):
you're going to see that it I guess if you some people I don't know close it and like put the solution
in and close it and then clean the rest. I'm thinking too much about this because I clean houses for
living. Well, it's funny you mentioned that you specifically think that it's odd and you would
like to have it down is what I gather. Yeah. Because he felt like that was weird too. And so he said

(44:52):
being a trained man, his clothes, he went and actually closed them all down because he yes. Yeah,
like assuming his wife or whatever always would want him to put the toilet seats down. So he went
and did it in, you know, having respect for the woman's room, which I think is really nice. I think so.

(45:13):
Are they leaving the toilet seats up in deference to him? Is that like a ghostly thing? They're like,
it's cool. Maybe, maybe because he didn't really think it was a ghostly thing at this point. He probably
assumed what I did and was like, oh, like someone cleaned in here and just didn't put the toilet seats
down. But like all these women are going to come in here and, you know, you like dang it. I got to

(45:38):
put this down myself. I got to touch this thing with my fingers. I always grab a little bit of toilet
paper and then yeah, yeah, yeah, especially because public. Oh, yeah. But he went back up there later
and he found that they were all open again. So like I said, vacant building. He was just, he does

(45:58):
tours in there. Like not a lot of people going through there. I assume they don't clean them
like that frequently that it would happen like twice in one day and that like short amount of time
because it was on this same tour that he would back up there. So I assume it was like within the hour
or within a couple hours. I don't know, but that's kind of weird. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would say even if

(46:22):
it was like several hours later, that would, yeah, it's weird. It's not being clean like that. Like,
it's not a movie theater or like a grocery store. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's not seeing that level of like
turnover. Yeah. On one of these paranormal investigations of the hospital, they attempted to
stay the night outside the morgue, which is now a library, which is I think is really cool.

(46:51):
Love a library. I don't know that I love one that used to be the site of a morgue. I don't care for
that. I want that. I want to go read books inside of an old morgue. I feel, I feel like you and I
just have a very different experience in, in those environments. I don't think I would be able to focus

(47:14):
on reading. Yeah. Maybe you really can feel what's tickling my neck. My God. There would be something
that could be somebody's old lighthouse cat or, yeah, I don't know. I think I meant to say, I said,
they attempted to stay the night outside the morgue and they wanted to stay the night inside the morgue,

(47:35):
but they couldn't because it was locked. So they ended up sleeping right outside of it or trying
to sleep, but they woke up and they heard kind of like a squeaking sound and realized it was one of the
tables rocking. So they left. They didn't stay the night. Yeah, you feel like if the table starts

(47:56):
rocking like, and I don't know like what kind of table it was. I don't know if it's just like a
regular table or if it was like a surgical table or like an operating table, I'm not really sure
because it's a hospital. But either way, a table like rocking on its own when nothing else around
it is like squeaking and moving. I would probably stay the night because I want more stuff to have

(48:19):
them, but I don't know if that happened right in front of me, I'd probably, I don't know, I would
maybe scream and run away. Yeah, I think I think that's where I lean. In case anyone was wondering
somehow that. Yeah. It also reminded me of, I don't know if you remember Ben's story from
places for a gotten episode and he heard like pounding on an embalming table, it kind of reminded me of

(48:45):
that. Like what's out there pounding and like moving tables around. I don't like that. Okay, and
actually that kind of like connects those two stories in a weird way. Yeah. I mean, it's a morgue.
Do you think like the energy gets like absorbed into the table? Maybe. Oh god.

(49:06):
Do you think there's not a lot of energy if it's like if it's deceased people
laying on it? Like how much energy do they even have left? Maybe it absorbs like their last, I
don't know. I'm totally just like rambling about absorbed energy here. Well, I'm just saying like all
of that energy that we're talking about with any sort of a haunt. It's a deceased person. So like,

(49:31):
yeah, I feel like, I don't know. I think I just invalidated your whole argument. Who? No, I mean nobody
knows. Like, yeah, it could be anything. So also something really strange happened. They had very
specifically synced their watches to the car clock before they started their investigation before
they left the car and went into the hospital. Okay. And when they got back to the car, neither of their

(49:55):
watches match the car or each other, which I feel like isn't that weird because my car clock, I don't
know, it goes wonky all the time. But the watches do that kind of thing. You think they would at least
match each other or maybe. Yeah, I feel like if it's got to match something. Okay. Because if all three

(50:17):
were synced, the fact that there two watches don't even match. Yeah. I don't I that actually, I feel
like that's freakier. Yeah. I don't know. If one of their watches like didn't match the car, I'd be like
that's that's kind of a nothing burger. But the fact that it doesn't match the car, they don't match
each other. I don't know. And it was like, wasn't even 24 hours later, you know? Like they had

(50:39):
been in an investigation, tried to say the night and left. So I feel like it would take a lot more time
for it to be off by that much. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, I feel like you don't have to,
I don't think you have to like sync up or like maintenance your watch that much. I don't, I don't
literally don't even own a watch. So what do I know? Yeah. Me neither. That's what phones are for.

(51:05):
Okay. So I told you we would come back to the cemetery. Are you excited?
We should be because this is kind of cool. So okay. Like a lot of really old graves, a lot of the
markers were wooden. So they totally degraded with time. They did not keep up. And graves were also

(51:25):
moved to another location. So some people were dug up and relocated. Whoever they could find.
Oh, I don't like that. But I'm sure. No. And inevitably somewhere left behind. Yeah. They're not
finding every, yeah, they're not they're not finding everybody. And that I don't know. It's really

(51:47):
sad. But like, what are you going to do if you have to, it's not like your fault if you have to move
them that they didn't have grave markers. You know, you know, I just feel like I'm very anti-relocating
entire cemeteries. So even a lot of the people that they did end up moving since their graves,

(52:10):
their markers weren't there. So that now they're just marked unknown because they still
didn't know who they were, you know, but at least they have an unknown marker. But
okay, listen, as a currently alive person, I feel like that might be upsetting to the dead.

(52:31):
Yeah. I mean, I like to think they don't care too much about like what happens back on Earth
because they're not here anymore. I mean, it is just sad to have like that unknown status or
character. No, I feel like it doesn't even, it's not even about like, oh, what's happening on Earth
or, you know, with anything going on down here. I just feel like that's so, I don't know,

(52:57):
that feels icky and dismissive. I realize, you know, this is not like the first time that this has
happened. It's not a unique situation, but I just feel like that it doesn't, it's never good.
It's never good when that happens. It's never good. I don't know.
Hopefully nowadays we're better at keeping records than like this kind of stuff won't happen too

(53:22):
often, but I mean, I'm sure it still does. I mean, they're like, it's gonna go away completely.
I know, no, because there's the element of human error. I was listening to a story about babies
that were switched in the hospital. Oh, yeah, which scary. Yeah, which you think, oh, well, that
probably is from like the 1950s, right? And the one that I was listening to more recently was like

(53:45):
the early 2000s. Oh, God. Can you imagine? Can you imagine? No. I can't imagine having a kid. Well,
I mean, having it switched, you know, but after you get passed up, first hurdle, you know, yeah. Oh,
my God, no, that's awful for everyone involved. Yeah, everyone. Herendisk. Anyway, well,

(54:08):
hopefully that doesn't happen to any of you. One grave site that they have lost track of over time
is John McLaughlin, Jr. So yeah, that is the son of Dr. John McLaughlin, who we talked about earlier
in the episode. That feels like kind of an important person to have just like loss. Yeah, I

(54:33):
realized he's already dead, but like, go in. And I'm not sure the circumstances on why it was
last, but I'll go through and I'll tell you a little bit of information and we can maybe discuss
after all righty. So John, Jr. was also a chief trader for the Hudson's Bay Company, like his
father, but at Fort Staiqin in Alaska, which is present day, Wrangle Alaska. Oh, and he was actually

(55:04):
murdered by his employees who claimed self-defense. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Okay. So when I was reading
about Dr. John McLaughlin, they say that he left Hudson's Bay Company for personal reasons.
And this was the personal reasons. I was going to say that feels pretty personal. Yeah, it sounds

(55:30):
like quite the scandal. The company's governor did an investigation and found John to have been in a
drunken rage and justified his murder. Oh, wow. Okay. So there was obviously going to be tension
between the company's governor and one of the post chief traders. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that would,

(55:55):
that would do it. That would cause some problems. Yeah, totally. I feel like in that era was everyone
not just constantly in a drunken rage, though. Like I feel like. I mean, this is what I mean,
to steal a phrase, people are still shitting in the streets and they're drinking alcohol instead of

(56:18):
water because it's safer. Yeah. So I guess I don't know. Like does it excuse you? Like attack? They say
like he came and like attacked and like drunkenly. I don't know. So he was the aggressor. That's what they
say. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And I don't know how many of them, but there were multiple employees.

(56:41):
Some like, but you all had to overpower him. Could you not just like tie him up for something?
Like I don't know. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Maybe just eliminate the threat. Restrain him. Yeah.
So I don't know how good of an investigation this person did. But his father was not pleased with
that outcome. And he left the company less than a year later. So I mean, that was like clearly why.

(57:08):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Oh, uh, now I want to look into it. I know. Yeah. Maybe you can find out
more because I just read like one of the articles on it. Yeah. I would love to hear more about that
if you if you can't. Oh my gosh. She was only 29. Cheap trader though. A little bit of...

(57:29):
I was going to say nepo, baby. Is that my right? Yeah. You know,
you're not the president. Okay. So well, that's the end of my story. But I do have one
semi-ghosty, spooky story I wanted to read for Patreon because I didn't want to summarize it.

(57:53):
I just wanted to read the entire thing. So we're going to move on to tarot for Fort Vancouver.
And I brought my Krodeck because I don't know. I was just feeling it. I mean, is there really a time
that you're not feeling the Krodeck? Not really. Yeah.
We're going to try not to drop all the cards today. Okay. Where do you think?

(58:22):
I feel like where your ring finger is. Like in that neighborhood somewhere. Yeah.
I'm thinking like what a ring finger looks like. How dare you?
I'm asking because it's technically not my ring finger because it's on my right hand. But
it's still a ring finger. It's my self-ring finger. Yeah. That it's like people buy themselves right hand

(58:47):
rings. Okay. Ooh. We got the Hierophant in reverse. Ooh. Which is interesting because immediately
I see a key on it. And I remember like all of those doors that were locking and unlocking.
And like, or not they were being left locked and they were being found unlocked. And even the person

(59:10):
put like tape on one of the doors to make like make sure it wasn't being tampered with. So that's
interesting that I see like a key. But it was in reverse. And it looks like they're in like a chapel
or something with like stained glass. We'll post we always post pictures on our Instagram or you
can see it in our Patreon or YouTube videos. Patrons always add free just FYI in case you guys forgot.

(59:37):
Just in case you're wondering. Link in the show now. Shame on me.
So our keywords are spiritual authority, leadership, tradition and institutions.
I feel like institutions like military. Yeah. I mean, wow. I mean,

(01:00:01):
there's a number of different types and I guess ways to interpret institutions. Yeah.
Like the mental variety. Instituations like of our government, like the military, hospital.
Yeah, I feel like that kind of applies in maybe a few different ways.

(01:00:25):
The hyrophens is a figure of authority and power. I mean, that says military over the place.
Like the emperor, but the hyrophens power is of a spiritual nature. So I feel like that's pretty.
I'm digging this card so far for this application. Yeah. I'm just going to say it is like a very

(01:00:48):
religious card. I feel like it's like the most religious type of cards.
Often he's shown as a religious leader and some decks call him the pulp. Interesting.
Sometimes he's seated on a throne dressed in priestly garb, crowned and holding a scepter.

(01:01:09):
In the right or right Smith deck, acolytes stand before him,
deferring to his wisdom as a representative of religious authority. He may represent a person
who's dedicated to a religion or philosophy or he can indicate that you're trying to break away
from religious influence or dictates. In a broad sense, this card can refer to any organized

(01:01:36):
institution religious or otherwise that exerts authority over its followers. But like is screaming
in the very beginning where I talked about Dr. John McLaughlin wanting to have peaceful
relations with the indigenous people. And that quote that I read where he said it is proved by

(01:01:57):
experience that the only way to gain the confidence of Indians and have influence over them
is by having establishments on their land. So like building institutions on their land and having
them like work for. Oh yeah. That whole thing just totally ties in with that.

(01:02:19):
It's such a good point, but I think it's interesting that he seems to imply there that that
is only applicable to like the native or indigenous population. And I'm like, I think that probably
applies to any sort of a population in a similar circumstance. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like moving

(01:02:44):
into where people already are and like establishing good relations with them by encouraging your
employees to marry them and have kids with them and hire them. Yeah. So interesting. Okay. So
I will read the interpretation here. We're not even married. I know. I know. If the high

(01:03:09):
orphaned is reversed, it shows you're assessing your position. You may long to break away from an
old tradition, religious, ideological, intellectual or cultural that no longer serves your needs.
You want to live by whatever philosophy or belief structure resonates with your true nature.

(01:03:29):
Even if this puts you into conflict with others, perhaps your faith is being challenged in some way
and you must reevaluate things you've taken for granted until now in order to be your own person.
Oh, I don't know. That just that sounds too like just the white people moving in and expecting

(01:03:50):
everyone else there to like follow what they do. Okay. Yeah. There's an extra excerpt here. Okay.
There's two keys to the mysteries. The writerweight Smith deck shows two crossed keys below the
high-rovent. These mark him as a teacher who holds the keys to the sacred mysteries. The keys also

(01:04:12):
represent the intellect and intuition and the need to use them in tandem. Oh. Does that make you
think it's interesting? Does that make you think of like the safe that had like the three different
keys to it? A little bit. A little bit, right? Interesting. Okay. And the second one, I don't know.

(01:04:34):
I'm interested to see what you think of this. Okay. When the experience of the breath of God
becomes morality and morality becomes legality and legality becomes a system of outer customs and
conventions, then the process of degeneration lies unveiled before us. Whoa. That was like really deep.

(01:05:01):
Yeah. Like I feel that vibe here though, just like with everything. I mean, it was kind of taken over
twice. Like the land was taken over by the fur trading company and then the military came in and
kind of just like took all that over. Uh huh. Yeah. And now it's taken over by like ghosts basically.

(01:05:23):
Yeah. Which is, yeah, that's interesting. But I mean, I think the linkage of like morality and like
legality and I think it's important to sort of denote that there is that's not a distinction without
a difference because what's legal versus illegal versus moral versus immoral. Right.

(01:05:49):
Can be very, very different things. Yeah. I just think that's such an interesting. It really is.
And I'm just gonna just gonna leave that there. I feel like I have nothing smart to add to that
because it was just like kind of so perfect. Oh. I get well. Yeah. No, I mean, it's very profound. And

(01:06:10):
so everything that we say from here after is sort of just blep. I mean, thank goodness for you because
you always sound smart. Well, I mean, I just read it. So that it. Yeah. That was it. Oh, I guess I
didn't read the bullets. I was like that did seem short. In general, this is just sort of talking

(01:06:30):
about, um, and regards to money. It's rejecting the material world to follow a spiritual path.
It can indicate arrogance in financial areas and an attitude that you don't need to play by the
rules because you're above all that, which is a very, a very nepoto baby. Yeah. Very, like very of

(01:06:52):
potentially, you know, some, some military figures. Yeah, reminding me of John Jr. though, like I can just
I'm the boss. I can do whatever I want. I can get going to drunk in rage, but also the maybe the
people who maybe took advantage of that or the person who investigated it, you know, maybe he was just

(01:07:15):
like, Oh, well, I'm in charge now. I can investigate this. However, I want to leave things out. I mean,
I don't know what happened. But yeah, I mean, we weren't actually there, but, you know, we can imagine
maybe what what happened based on historical context and, you know, what we do know. Um,

(01:07:37):
Cassie. Okay. I know who I think this sounds like and I want you to tell me who you think. What do you say?
Who what? How do you? What do you think, lady? If the reading is about your job, you're probably
questioning authority or the limitations in your workplace. Sometimes the reversed hyrrophin

(01:08:04):
indicates leaving an organization that you feel is unprincipled or that doesn't hold your values.
Okay. Dr. John Muglaughlin. Dr. John leaving. Not agreeing with how his son's investigation,
murder investigation was handled. I'm just saying crazy. We did it again. God,

(01:08:27):
damn it. I think we did it again. Yeah, it was totally questioning this because it's like such,
such like a religious figured card. But I think in this case, it's more of like a power figure.
It is. I think it's more, I think it speaks more to authority. Yeah. In a reading about love,

(01:08:47):
the reversed hyrrophin may mean you feel trapped in a relationship because you're afraid to
buck a social religious or cultural order. This card can also indicate a relationship in which one
person holds most of the power or is judgmental or dogmatic. Yeah, that just goes back to those

(01:09:10):
authority figures that we talked about. I think. Yeah. Yeah. I think some of those, it can apply
in so many dynamics where it's like, okay, I mean, not a religious institution, you know,
per se, but it applies in those authoritarian. And I do feel like military is, the military is

(01:09:34):
like pretty religious though. I feel like it's hard to divorce that from our country in so many aspects.
And I feel like yeah, maybe that's more what I'm thinking is like one nation under God.
Well, okay. I mean, so the argument can be made that obviously a big part of what our country was

(01:10:00):
founded on is, you know, it's the separation of, you know, church and state. Yeah. They feel like they
don't quite get there. You know, no taxation without representation. There's that. That's a, it's,
you know, arguably the, of course, it all comes back to, you know, show me the money. But the religious

(01:10:22):
component of, you know, of having that freedom, it's such, I mean, you can't separate that from
from the founding of this country and from the, you know, the very earliest white settlers.
So can you say this country again with a, with your Southern Marm accent?
This country. I just love it. When I do that, do you know what I'm picturing? What?

(01:10:52):
Okay, do you remember there was a Netflix? It's like a cartoon show and it was basically like about
a bunch of 40 kids. I am drawing such a big mouth. Yes. I am, I am always Maya Rudolph in big mouth.
What I'm doing that. I'm picturing the character. I'm picturing like bubble bio.

(01:11:18):
Have a creepy ass day. We'll see you next Tuesday. We'll be there. Happy 200th anniversary,
Fort Vancouver. It's like kind of a big deal when you get to 200, you know? We know, we know, we know,
not 200 years. Oh, no, although it feels like it a little bit, a little bit. But obviously we're,

(01:11:45):
I mean, look at us. We're radiant. So youthful. I mean, okay, maybe I'll play my 200 years old,
then we would look extra good all the time.
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