Oculus Anubis: The Dark Myths & True Crime of Oregon's Most Mysterious Estate

In Damascus, Oregon—just 16 miles from Portland—sits a property shrouded in mystery, rumor, and controversy. Known as Oculus Anubis, the name itself sparks curiosity: Oculus (Latin for "eye") and Anubis (the Egyptian god of the afterlife). With its eccentric gate, pyramids, and statues of ancient deities like Sekhmet, this property has fueled countless urban legends. Some claim secret underground tunnels, eerie encounters, and even satanic cult activity—but how much of it is true?

🔺 What We Cover in This Episode:
✔️ The history and symbolism of Anubis, Sekhmet, and Egyptian imagery on the property
✔️ The controversial true crime case tied to the property’s former owner
✔️ The underground tunnels—fact or fiction?
✔️ Local rumors of strange encounters, including people staring from windows and mysterious chases
✔️ The Oculus Anubis nonprofit organization and their commitment to "acquire" the property
✔️ The power of urban legends, media influence, and misinterpretation

While some believe the property harbors dark secrets, others see it as an architectural wonder misunderstood by the public. We break down the facts vs. fiction and explore why places like this become the center of eerie speculation.

Visit our website! Find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Patreon, & more! If you have any true crime, paranormal, or witchy stories you'd like to share with us & possibly have them read (out loud) on an episode, email us at [e-mail] or use this link. There are so many ways that you can support the show: BuyMeACoffee, Spreaker, or by leaving a rating & review on Apple Podcasts. Sources

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
And I think because it's the property is so secretive, people aren't really allowed

(00:06):
to go on there because it's private property.
private, private.
And because like the gate, the statues are visible.
It's very intense.
So unique and intense.
And honestly, it's like stunning.
I would love to have a gate like this.
Hell yeah.
It's so unfortunate that people like make up all these crazy stories about it.

(00:27):
I know.
Because it's just such an easy, it's an easy target.
It's kind of low hanging fruit.
Hi, Caitlyn?
Okay, take two.
I liked it.
Okay.
Hi, Cassie.
Hi, creepy people.

(00:48):
Oh, wow.
This is PNW Haunts and Homicides where we chat about true crime, the paranormal and all things
weird and creepy and cool in the Pacific Northwest.
What is the Pacific Northwest, Caitlyn?
So the PNW, if you're nasty.
So nasty.

(01:08):
And we know that you are.
We might be getting nasty in this episode.
Maybe a little.
Maybe it's a little murky because spoiler alert, I might have stepped on Caitlyn's toes
a little bit without asking.
I forgot to ask because it's not murdery.
Well, yeah.

(01:30):
I mean, I feel like that's pretty free reign.
Yeah.
You've talked about cases that were murder adjacent before.
I know you usually always ask you though.
I'm like, hey, just by the way.
Sometimes, yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
But so I spoiled the topic of this.
Yeah.
That's true.
For everyone.
Yeah, for everyone.

(01:51):
Which is fine.
I just.
And that's just fine.
Once in a while, I give things away on accident.
That's always on purpose.
And so Caitlyn, I heard the topic and she looked it off apparently and was like, oh, this has
like a true crime element to it.
Like, would it be stepping on your toes if I like looked into this?

(02:12):
And I was like, oh, shit.
I was like, I literally wrote enough this up on it.
I added all the crime.
Unless you feel free to research after me in.
Okay.
If you dig anything out, you can do that.
Dig anything out of its butt.
Out of its, out of its tunnels.
Oh, it's butt tunnels.

(02:34):
Yeah.
I'm really on butts right now.
Are you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've been listening to a show that talks about butts a lot.
Not in relation to the show and its content.
They just really like to talk about butts.
It's totally aside from their core content.
So funny.
Juicy.
Yeah.

(02:54):
Big fat juicy.
Yeah, they talk about booty clapping.
It's great.
I'm enjoying it.
Well, should we get into this?
I don't know.
On a scale of Caitlyn scooting further into her seat, somewhere in the neighborhood of one
to ten times, where we, how many scoots are we on this one?

(03:17):
Maybe one.
Okay.
It might be a one scooter.
I don't think you're going to, I think you're going to be fine.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I realized just a few minutes ago that I'm understanding the biological responses that I've
been describing where I feel as though I'm being chased by a rabid bear.

(03:37):
Yeah.
Very specific type of anxiety response that I'm having.
I think it may have something to do with the cortado that I consumed.
Oh, dude.
That's a lot for you.
I feel like.
And pretty quickly, I might add, because it's only eight ounces.
So I totally looked and like thought about getting one on the way here and I was like, I

(04:00):
don't want to stop.
Like if I'm already late, so I didn't get one.
They're fucking delicious.
First of all, you probably should have, because I'm a little hungover.
Oh, okay.
Well, we can help you out with that.
But I'm drinking wine.
So we're okay.
It's that hair of the dog.
Sash.
Shush.
Shush.
Shush.
- Sasquatch wine. - The Sighting.

(04:21):
- The Sighting. - Trees, very on-brand.
So just right off the top here, we're gonna establish
that this is a private property that we're talking about.
- Oh, so, dick road. Don't be dick and' all that.
- It's a private property. There's neighbors really close.
- Okay. - I'm not telling you to go there.
Honestly, I probably wouldn't go there. - Yeah, sounds like that's not the move.

(04:44):
- Honestly, the little bit that I do know.
It sounds like that's not a vibe. - Yeah. - You know what I mean?
- I'm more scared of people than anything else, I think.
And I just don't wanna break any trespassing rules
and get in trouble with the law. - With the law.
- Yeah, so I will be staying away, but I'm gonna tell you about it.
'Cause it's really interesting.
And there's a lot of weird rumors and things associated with the property.

(05:09):
So I gotta talk about it, right?
- I'm so excited.
In Damascus, Oregon, about 16 miles southwest from Portland, Oregon.
Obviously.
As one does, lies a property shrouded in mystery and crime.

(05:31):
- Ooh. - Ooh.
- Known as Oculus Anubis.
- And I really just wanna put an echo on that, really bad.
- I mean, we have the, listen, we have the technology.
- We do. - Oculus is Latin for eye.
- For eyeballs.
- I don't know if you noticed.
I wore my eyeball shirt, which I have worn recently,

(05:54):
but I obviously had to wear it today.
'Cause eyeballs. - Of course.
- Of course.
- And I don't really have an eyeball shirt
and I didn't know that I should, but I happened to wear this planet.
- Yeah, you're meaning someone. - I'm thinking of actually circles.
It's got other circles that look like eyes you said earlier.
So it works.
Houston, I am the problem.

(06:16):
- I feel like we can relate anything to anything.
We do tarot, so.
It's very interesting, though, this name, Oculus.
We'll get back to it.
- Okay.
- And Anubis is the ancient Egyptian god of the afterlife.
He cared for, preserved, and protected the dead.
He has the body of a man in the head of a jackal.

(06:39):
Also listener of the pod.
Anubis.
- Yeah. - Famously.
- Obviously.
I had to look up what a jackal was.
'Cause obviously I knew it was a wild dog thing,
but I never specifically looked it up.
They're so cute.
They're pretty cute.
They look like coyotes, smaller coyotes with pointier taller ears.

(07:00):
And really cool fur patterns.
- Yeah.
Yeah.
Interesting.
I found a video the other day of somebody who rescued a
tiny baby fox.
They look like kittens.
When they're that young,
"Oh, Foxy."
They don't start to look like a fox right away.
And then all of a sudden, they were like,
"Oh, fark, we adopted a fox."

(07:22):
- Whoopsie.
I mean, I'm not mad about it.
- That would be amazing.
- Right.
A freaking fox.
Sorry, guess you live with me now.
- You're a cat.
- I feel like a jackal is kind of halfway between a fox and a coyote.
- I like that.
- Similar.
Okay, so I'm going to send you some pictures.
I'm going to air drop you some photos of the property.
And then we're going to discuss, talk about

(07:44):
what it looks like and all of that.
So as you can see,
in this photo, it is in a neighborhood.
- It appears to be.
- There are houses literally right next to the property.
So they're really close.
It's not like super secluded.
The property itself is private property.
And it's all gated off of that.
Part is secluded,

(08:04):
but it's not like in a specifically secluded area.
It's in like a neighborhood.
- I mean a neighborhood for Damascus.
- Yeah, exactly.
You just have to be there.
- Yeah, it's big properties.
It's not really close homes or anything.
But there's homes, there's civilization.
So when you're pulling in,

(08:25):
it's kind of like the opening to their long driveway
is kind of like a cul-de-sac or like a turnaround.
- Yeah.
- It's not technically cul-de-sac because there's not like other houses on it.
- Right.
It's just kind of like--
- Yeah, but I mean circular in shape.
- Yeah.
- It's like the opening to their driveway.
- Yeah.
- So on either side of this opening to the cul-de-sac
circular turnaround, do Hickey,

(08:47):
there are two pyramids.
- Yes, I see those.
- They look kind of like, I don't know.
Maybe like boob height to us, maybe?
Maybe a little shorter.
They don't look, depends on who we're talking about.
- Right.
- But us.
Like probably if I go back to back with that pyramid,
do you think it would be like your height?

(09:08):
- It's hard to say without much for scale.
- Yeah.
- I'm gonna guess, it might be
add or, you know, give or take.
- Like a dick.
- Like a dick.
- They're not particularly big.
They're not huge and they're not tiny.
They're like--
- Listen, you can't talk like that when I just said dick.

(09:29):
- I know.
I was hearing it as it was coming out of my mouth.
- But anyway, there's two pyramids and they have,
they used to have fire on top.
I don't know if you can zoom in.
You can see like little torches on the top.
I don't think it's running anymore.
- Yeah, no, I think actually that's one thing
that previously when I looked at this,
the pyrotectnics of it all,

(09:52):
that's like the one thing that I heard is like,
oh yeah, no, they shot that down.
- Which is, I mean, understandable.
- It's a bummer.
- Once we start getting into this property.
- Yeah.
- So as you're going into past the pyramids,
they have kind of a wall, like a stone wall.
It's very mossy.
There's a lot of ferns, green foliage, it's party.

(10:16):
And then there is a big archway gate entrance.
- That, it is.
- It's very big, it looks like.
It's got two lion statues on either side of it.
So basically it's like my calling card.
- Right.
- I know I wrote that later somewhere in here,
not those specific words, but we'll get to it.

(10:39):
- Trusting.
- And then the archway itself, it looks like it's also made
from stone, but it's like black.
I'm not sure if it's painted or if just the stone itself
is like a black stone.
I'm not pretty sure.
- There is sort of like a, it's almost like an ombre effect.
When you look at, it's like darkens the further back you go.

(11:01):
- That is true.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, 'cause the stone that makes up like the wall
and stuff that the lion sit on,
it looks normal like gray stone.
- Yeah.
- And then once you get to this big archway, it's black.
And then on the top of the archway is that same kind of like
black stone, it's like a circular circle.
- Yeah, almost like a medallion.

(11:22):
- Yeah, yeah.
- It kind of looks like a medallion on top.
And then on this circle, that's on top of the archway.
- Medallion, madame.
- Circle, medallion, whatever.
It kind of looks like a family crest almost.
It's got like another lion up on its branches,

(11:45):
on its own, you call it, like roaring up.
- He's like standard up, he's on two legs.
- Yeah.
- And then on the other side, there is a dragon figure
doing the same thing.
And in the middle, it literally looks like another lion.
- A lion.
- Like a kind of like a sun.
It's another circle medallion shape.
- I mean, also I'm like, oh, I'm going crazy.
- Yeah.
And I'm like, maybe there's just so much a Leo's living here.

(12:07):
There's so many lions.
- Giving like very intense Leo energy like.
- So these, the lion, this dragon figure,
it has like wings and a tail and.
- Also, I'm here with the dragon.
- Oh, this is all about Caitlyn.
- You guys.
- No, so these things are, they're like copper

(12:29):
and golden color.
And then on top of it, it's hard to see,
but there's something else.
On top of the lion's sun medallion is a crown.
But that's black.
So it's harder to see.
- You're so right.
- If this is a Leo, I mean, this is very Leo vibes.
Like put a lion on, I put a crown on it.

(12:50):
- Y'all's playing.
(laughing)
- Wow.
- So I was curious if this was like,
if this meant anything.
So I zoomed in on it and like Google photo,
what's that called?
Photo search set.
- Image search.
- Google image search.
- Image search.
- That's what I'm trying to say.
- So Google image search set.

(13:10):
And it does come up with like coat of arms,
not nothing specifically.
That's this specific type.
- Oh, okay.
- But just like the lion figure itself,
I just learned a lot about heraldry
that I just didn't even know I needed to know.
- Say again about heraldry.
- Okay.
- It's like the art of coat of arms.

(13:32):
- Okay, okay.
- Of like the family crest type deleos.
- Yeah, okay.
- And a family crest is actually part of a coat of arms.
- Oh.
- I know a lot.
I didn't really like it.
It's not, it's not.
- It's interesting though.
- It is interesting.
I went down a weird rabbit hole, but I like it.
- Yeah, I don't need to take you guys down there with me.
- I mean, whatever.
- But it does kind of seem like they just took like images

(13:54):
and like maybe made their own.
I didn't find anything that this specifically meant anything,
but it could.
- Tristan.
- I don't know.
But I tried Google in it.
I tried.
Also the two lion statues, those are no longer there.
- What?
- Because dicks, vandalizing.
- Oh, no.

(14:14):
- One of them got stolen.
Yeah, so they're unfortunately no longer there.
And that's really sad to me, because I'm like,
those are like the gate protectors, you know?
- Yeah.
I was just thinking to myself, which would be more difficult.
Stealing a stone lion or a real live lion.
- I, I don't know, man.

(14:36):
And these are like, they're like made of like brass
or some kind of metal too.
- They're quite sizable, so no small feet.
- Ridiculous.
And I think one of them like someone just like push it down.
They're probably like kids, stupid dumb kids.
- You guys again, dick road, don't be a dick.

(14:58):
I know, you know?
- The gates are like iron or something.
It's like a pretty pattern iron.
You can see through it.
So when you look through, you can see down the road
and the road starts to curve.
And at the, at the curve in the road, at the bend in the road,
there is an Egyptian statue.
I was like, what is this?
'Cause the picture that I have, I can't really,

(15:19):
I was like, it's a statue.
- Okay, now I'm sending you the zoomed-in photo.
- Yay!
- Okay, so this is, a lot of people would assume, Anubis
because the place is known as Oculus and Anubis, right?
This is very clearly not a new bus.
This is, oh, obviously.
- Very clearly.
Because I have done the research.

(15:39):
Well, actually I do know what Anubis looks like.
And I was like, just looking at it,
I can tell this has like a lion face and Anubis.
Like we talked about is a jackal.
So I was like, well, this doesn't really look like him.
- No, that makes sense.
- Okay.
- But a lot of people do say that,
that's who that is in the statue, but it's not.
It's the Egyptian goddess, Sekhmet.

(16:00):
- Okay, Sekhmet has a woman's body
and the head of a lioness with a halo-esque sun disk
on her head.
- Okay, I'm glad you explained that.
- Because I was like, that's a hat.
- Yeah, no, it's the sun representative of the sun.
- All right.
- And that kind of makes sense
because she was created from the fire of the sun God, Ra.

(16:23):
- Ever heard of them?
- No. - Not familiar.
- Nope.
See, done anything lately?
- Not lately, I don't think.
- Haven't seen him at the box office.
- Don't smite me Ra.
- I don't know if he does that or not.
- I feel like that's a uniquely Judeo-Christian
type of a vibe.
- I don't know.

(16:44):
- Ancient Egypt gods are not super nice
and we're gonna go into it right about now.
- Excellent.
- So she's also known as the Eye of Ra,
which is a very powerful symbol of fury and violence,
but also of protection and healing.
- Okay.
- So two sides to that coin.

(17:05):
- Oh yeah, for sure.
- All right.
- Just like Sekhmet, who is known
as the Goddess of War and Healing.
- Okay.
- All right.
Listen, people can be complicated.
- Very complicated.
- I get that.
- Especially gods and goddesses, you know?
They got a lot going on, okay?
- I mean, situations are nuanced and it's a lot.

(17:28):
- She was also the patron deity of physicians and healers.
- Oh.
- So that is for what a pain in that
as Caitlyn would like to say.
- I don't like to say that at all.
- You say it every episode.
- I mean, but I don't like that I do.

(17:48):
- I love it.
- If it makes anyone feel better,
I don't like that that's what I say.
- But here we are.
- I love it.
And then I also love when you add it
and it's just like so automatic,
but you're like, wait,
you don't need to pin that
'cause I'm talking to you about it right now.
- I know.
- No pins.
- That's come up a few times.
- That's my favorite thing.
- Take your pin out.

(18:10):
- There it is.
- Here it is.
- So why does everyone think that this entrance
to this property looks so evil and even satanic?
People think it's like evil and satanic.
- All right.
- 'Cause there's stuck in the 90s and I guess,
I guess I missed the memo of like when Egypt

(18:30):
became like evil and satanic, like Egyptian imagery.
- I guess I missed the memo where I'm supposed
to panic about satanism.
- Right, also.
- I know, what is the satanic panic?
It's all weird to me and I don't understand it.
- Yeah.
- Also pyramids, like why are those bad?
- Not really sure.
They're on our money.

(18:51):
- Yeah.
- I literally brought a dollar bill out
because there's a pyramid on it with an eyeball on top.
- Yeah.
- I mean,
- Oculus.
- What is it,
E pluribus unum


- I don't fucking know.
- I'm pretty sure that's what it is.
- Well, language is that.
- It's Latin.
- No.
- I should know, I know Oculus.

(19:11):
- Yeah.
- So I feel like eyes are like a strong theme
in Egyptian culture to it kind of feels like.
- I think so.
- Yeah.
- What do you mean they guess there is kind of another theme here
that people could consider evil, like fire, death gods,
anubis, you know, he's a death god.

(19:34):
People are scared of death as we know.
So they just label it all evil.
- Oh, are they?
- Wow.
- Yeah.
- They are a bunch of plebs.
- I don't know what that means.
- It's kind of like saying like plebian is like,
- Oh.
- Almost like peasant.
- Oh.
- Just to put it in like the most, like,
what a foolish concern.

(19:56):
- Seriously, like we're all gonna end up there.
Like,
why are you gonna be so scared?
- Yeah.
- 'Cause it's fucking scary.
- Well, it's just, it's interesting to me
that anything to do with like death,
people like wanna label evil.
- Yeah.
- I do think that's like where it becomes sort of a
misnomer, I guess.
- Yeah.

(20:17):
- Like they're not causing the death.
They're just taking care of the dead.
Like one day you want someone to take care of you
when you cross over.
- Just saying like, if you're gonna die,
maybe you want that guy in to like,
everyone will die.
- Yeah.
- Was it when I'm trying to say,
"Boylar alert."
- Yeah.
- Just trying to soften the blow, okay?
- So even like with the black stones,

(20:38):
I feel like people look at the color black as evil as well.
- As we all know, black is evil.
- It's so, it's so infuriating,
'cause it's like my favorite color.
It's the best color in the world.
And it was a very fortunate color for Egyptians,
because it was the color of the rich soil

(20:58):
that was left after the Nile would flood.
- Yeah.
So to them, it symbolized fertility, new life,
and resurrection.
Makes sense.
- Yeah.
Very fortunate.
- Black is a great color.
- Black and gold also.
- Yeah.
- Basically my wedding colors, black, golden blush.
- You're,
Oculus Anubis.
- Basically.

(21:19):
- Also with Sekhmet being a very powerful woman
associated with worn violence,
even sometimes referred to as the mistress of dread,
the mallor, or the lady of slaughter.
- Oh my.
- So I could see how people could turn something like that

(21:40):
into something evil,
even though she's also known for healing.
- Yeah, I mean, to be fair, that does imply,
I mean, literally the word dread, I feel.
- Yeah.
- I could understand that it creates a little bit of a sense
of foreboding.
- I mean, just don't be on the herb outside, you know?
- Yeah, that's right.
- Do the good things in life.
That reminds me of like when I discovered that,

(22:03):
you know, I would be a doom witch,
I was like,
- Oh, yeah.
- Yeah.
- You know, embrace it.
- Yes.
- So I wanna read you this fact from Sekhmet's good side.
I just, I think it's so much fun,
and I'm such a cat person,
so I just have to give you this fun fact.
From Egyptianmuseum.org.

(22:23):
- Give it to me.
- Quote,
the ancient Egyptians believe that Sekhmet
had the cure for every problem.
In order to stand her good side,
they offered her food and drink,
played music for her, and burned incense.
They would whisper their prayers into the ears
of cat mummies,
and offer them to Sekhmet.

(22:43):
They believe that this was a direct connection
to the deities,
and their prayers would be answered.
- That's so cute.
- They whispered into little kitty mummy ears.
I am a little bit sad about the cat mummies.
- I mean, they die,
and then that preserved.
- Not always how mummies happen.

(23:05):
- Well, we can just pretend that the cat's
all died of natural causes.
- We're just gonna say that all mummies died of natural causes.
- All mummies died of natural causes.
And they were preserved very beautifully.
- Yes.
- We obviously, we know there's some history there,
but we're not here to go into all that.
- Yeah.
- So she can breathe flames down upon you,

(23:27):
but if you feed her and give her some music,
some nice atmosphere,
she can solve all your problems.
- Cassie,
- What?
- Like a dragon and a lion.
- Yes.
- It's like cat-like,
and then like very mother of dragons.
- Well, I was like, I feel like this is how all women should be.

(23:47):
Oh, are we not all?
- Kind of.
(laughing)
- Just give us food and you'll be fine.
- Feed me tacos and tell me that I'm pretty.
Or fried chicken.
- Yeah, fried chicken chicken.
- There's also another interesting rumor
about the property,
and I don't really think if anyone knows if they're actually built,

(24:10):
but the property does have permits
for heated underground tunnels.
- Ooh.
- Yeah.
- So that's interesting and people's like,
minds just go wild with all of this.
Like why are there underground tunnels?
What are they doing down there?

(24:31):
And I think because it's the property is so secretive,
people aren't really allowed to go on there
because it's private property.
- Private property.
- And because like the gate,
the statues are visible.
- It's very intense. - Very intense.
- So unique and intense.
And honestly, it's like stunning.
- I would love to have a gate like this.

(24:51):
- Hell yeah.
- It's so unfortunate that people make up all these crazy stories
about it.
- I know.
- 'Cause it's just such an easy target.
- It's kind of low hanging fruit,
but like, I don't know, try harder at life.
You know?
- Well.
- The rumors were fueled by, can you guess it?

(25:11):
- Dicks.
- Reddit.
- Close. - Close.
(laughs)
- Yeah, it's different but same same.
You know?
- So there is a Reddit post saying that this person drove
down the driveway to the house.
- Okay.
- And said that when they rolled up to the house,
all the windows were open.
Like all the blinds were open, all the lights were on.

(25:33):
And there was just a bunch of people standing in the windows
staring back at them.
- Oh, okay.
Yeah.
So now I am starting to get a little bit of an evil fight.
- Right.
- Because that's the nightmare fuel.
- Does sound like, it's very creepy
and they said that they were like pretty much standing still
for like a long time just staring at their car.

(25:54):
- That's horrific.
It's the worst flash mob in history.
- Just like a, oh my God, like a silent still flash mob.
- Well, that's how they are before they do the dance, you know?
They are all like, a lot of times.
- Like, are milling about and then start.
But can you imagine if people are just milling about

(26:15):
and then everyone all this ends to stops?
Like, would you think that's like a really good prank, honestly?
I kind of, I want someone to do that to me.
- I hate that.
I hate that so much.
Don't you fucking dare.
- I would be like the world is frozen.
I can go rob a bank.
- Oh, okay.
Well, you know, we might have a thing or two to say about that.

(26:37):
Okay.
So here we are.
We're at our first official scoot.
- Oh, well, I might bring you down though.
- Well, it's a half-scoot technically.
I did say you could get one good at least one.
- Yeah, for sure.
- Okay.
People also say that they, if they do venture on to the property,
they get chased out by like either cars or other people.

(27:00):
They just, you know, people come and find them
and chase them off the property.
- But not rabbid bears.
- I guess not.
Okay, rabbid bears.
So not that I know.
That's good.
But I'm like, it's private property.
It might seem normal for people to be chased off private property

(27:20):
that they're on without the owner's permission.
So I don't know.
I don't feel like that matters.
Probably not as sinister as it sounds.
- Exactly.
- Yeah.
- Okay.
And two, I was thinking if the story is true
about the people in the windows,
which it was on Reddit, on a known creepy pasta-esque.

(27:42):
- Okay.
- So Reddit, whatever it's called, I don't even know.
- I've come to understand that everything
that is posted on Reddit is, of course, based in fact.
- So factual.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- So everyone's fact checking everyone
and everything is fine.
- Yeah.
So I mean, this is like a real red string conspiracy theory

(28:06):
territory, but yeah.
- Please go on.
- I am going on.
- Okay.
- My thought was maybe they were having a big party.
- And everyone knew that everyone was at the party
and there was no other arrivals.
So they see this car coming down the private dark driveway.
What are you gonna do if you're not expecting someone

(28:27):
who's coming in a car?
You're gonna look out the fucking windows, right?
- True.
- True.
Or what if, what if something else happened
where all of a sudden everybody wants to like,
you're just like you heard a weird sound
and one person goes,
right, you're all listening.
I imagine if that was true, something like that probably.

(28:51):
- And I feel yeah.
- Yeah.
- Okay.
- And honestly, if you're on my private property,
I might try to be creepy and stare you down
from my window too.
- All right.
Get the fuck out of here.
I'm at a party.
I don't wanna chase you.
- I might just stare you down if you come into my space
at any particular time.
Like, you know, private property or not.
Like, seriously.

(29:12):
Get out.
- Totally.
Leave everyone alone.
There's also a rumor,
but the gate is unlocked on Halloween Eve.
- Ooh.
- Which is very spooky,
but I'm like, are they trying to just like pass out candies?
- Halloween Eve.
- Halloween Eve.
- Halloween Eve.
- Does that mean the eve of like Halloween night

(29:34):
are like the day before?
- That's like October 4th, I feel like.
- Do they mean like,
- I'm interpreting that as the day that I was conceived.
- Right.
Oh.
- Why are you thinking about that?
- Because my due date was July 30th,
and I was born on the 29th,
and I feel like, I don't know,
part of me is feeling like it's calling from here.
It's private property, so, you know,

(29:56):
not gonna do anything about it, but like.
- Yeah, 'cause like typically we think of like Christmas Eve
as like the day before.
So yeah.
- Yeah.
- That's interesting.
Like why would it be unlocked?
Obviously this is a rumor too.
I don't know for sure.
Someone did say that they went,
and they were able to get in on Halloween Eve,

(30:16):
but they didn't go too far, they got scared and laughed.
(laughing)
You know, that happens.
- I'm too much of a chicken gin.
I'm not suggesting that I'm going to go.
- Yeah, I think everyone should be clear on that.
- No, but if they were like passing out candy
or something like totally I would go.
- Oh, I wonder if that's like maybe they're really
into Halloween, and they're like anybody who dames

(30:39):
to like come down.
- The day before?
- Well, they unlock it the day before
so that it's good and ready, and it probably takes you
until the 31st, walk your way down to the front door.
- Or do they want to trap all of that?
- That's what I was thinking.
- Children who try to come in the gate on Halloween Eve.

(31:00):
(laughing)
- Part of me thinks too, like what if this is a typo
and someone wrote like all Hallows Eve,
and they changed it to like Halloween Eve?
- I don't know.
- That would be interesting.
- I'm thinking too hard about this.
- I don't think you can ever think too hard about anything.
- You're using my hat rack here.

(31:20):
- That's right.
- I did joke about like trapping the children,
but people do accuse them of being human traffickers.
- Oh, I did see this.
- Yeah, because of like the tunnels and things.
- But very Shanghai.
- There's really no people say there was like smoke
and like other buildings like coming from the property

(31:41):
that we're shady looking, but those aren't pictures
of this property.
They're like completely something that somebody made up.
- Okay.
- Also, how does one go about becoming or appearing
as a shady building?
- They were just like spooky looking.

(32:01):
- I didn't take the photo.
I didn't get it.
- 'Cause they're like, they're obviously not real.
- Yeah, it was just like a weird set of like domed buildings,
like little buildings and I don't even know
where the photo came from.
- It just--
- And domes obviously infamously shady.
- Evil and shady.
They're hiding people in there.
- Listeners of the pod, but infamously shady.

(32:23):
- I think it mostly comes from the tunnels.
- Okay.
- The fact that there's tunnels and then there is some people
who have gone onto the property and I think
they're photos of the property.
I can't really quite be sure.
- Yeah, you're like, I haven't been there.
So it's kind of hard to fact check.
- Who knows?
I mean, it's like so many trees and things.
It could be of anywhere, really.

(32:44):
But I did link to it if anyone's really curious.
You can go through and look in my links for things.
But so people have gone onto the property
and there's some other like statues.
I think I saw like a statue of raw that was,
he's got like a bird face, which does make sense
'cause he's related to segment, right?
- Yeah.
- It's unfortunate as faces go.

(33:05):
- Bird face.
- Bird face.
He's like in a cage.
Like it's not like set up.
He's like still in his like enclosure.
I don't know from like when they transferred the statue.
I'm thinking.
- Interesting.
- And then there's like some statues of like water
in the base and people say like,
oh look, you can see stairs leading down
and I'm like, I can't see anything.

(33:28):
I feel like you can.
Is that is that so?
- Yeah.
- Okay.
- Even if there were like, I don't know.
That's kind of cool.
- Yeah.
- It looked and.
- And.
- And.
- Yeah.
- But they think they like lead down to the tunnels
and shit.
And then there's also this one photo of,
it looks like a bunch of like boulders and rocks

(33:48):
but the rock it looks like a flat like doorway almost.
- Ooh.
- There's like, it doesn't look like there's really
any way to open it or anything.
I don't know if it's actually a doorway
or if that's just like what it looked like
when they were doing their landscaping.
I really don't know.
- Yeah.
- So it's like a lot of yes-ending
to get to the place that some people have.

(34:12):
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
They're working themselves up.
- Yeah, exactly.
Cause I'm like, you can see these things individually.
You don't know what they were intended for.
- Yeah.
- That you could just make it fit whatever
- Human trafficking rumor that you would like.
- Yeah.
Maybe they're not trafficking people.
Maybe they're trafficking drugs.
- Maybe.
- There you go.

(34:32):
Let's start a new rumor.
- Anything.
- Don't start any rumor.
- I'm just saying it goes to sort of what you're saying about.
You don't know what the intent is.
- Right.
- Right.
- But also I'm like, wait, who hasn't said,
I know we have.
Like we would love to get a property
and build houses on it and then have them connect

(34:54):
through tunnels.
That would be pretty cool.
- And have secret rooms and stuff.
Can you imagine all the evil rumors
they're gonna have about us?
- It's across I'm willing to bear.
- Believe it or not.
- Just don't vandalize my shit.
- Okay.
- No.
I mean, we'll have electric fences.
So that won't be a problem.
- Buzz buzz, buzz buzz.

(35:15):
- Oh, they do say that they have like cameras
all around the property.
So I don't know if I've mentioned.
- So it's gonna say that.
- Did I talk about that?
- No.
- Did I think that makes sense?
- Yeah.
People have said they've seen them like in the pyramids
at the front and like in the trees and stuff.
- Did they see that thing where it's like in Jason Bourne
or other, I don't know, whatever fucking movie

(35:35):
where like the camera like it turns its, you know?
Like it turns its head like it's falling you.
- I don't know.
- 'Cause the creep factor of that.
- Yeah.
- I'm with that.
- Like that.
- And people say when they just like come to the entrance too,
they'll like be there for a couple minutes taking photos
and then all of a sudden someone will like drive up
or come up and like tell them to leave.

(35:56):
Like, bye.
- Yeah.
Like basically chasing them off just less dramatic.
- Yeah.
- They're chasing them off, but you know,
from behind gate and asking politely.
- Yeah, there was various stories about the chasing off.
You know, there was dramatic ones,
there was less dramatic ones, but it's a theme for sure.
So they could be watching you, just be prepared.

(36:18):
Don't go there, but.
- Well, you know, if you do,
if you're probably watching you.
- Mm.
- You know,
- Fogger.
- Makes so much sense later.
(laughs)
- People also accuse them of being a cult.
- I mean, I see how they get there, maybe.

(36:38):
- I don't know.
- Big property,
multiple houses being built on the property.
- Tumor.
- I know, I sounded really giggly.
- Oh, giggly.
- When I saw that, sorry.
- Right.
- Yeah, tunnels.
All this Egyptian stuff, it's a thing.
It's another one of those rumors that just,
I feel like snowballs.
In general, I do think that when white people co-opt a,

(37:02):
you know, culture or religion that is foreign to them,
that does feel very colty.
So I get that, you know.
- Like if you're not familiar with it.
- Yeah.
- You're just like, I made this up.
- There was one, oh my God, this is so bad.
There was one podcast I was listening to,
and I,
- Not gonna name it.

(37:22):
- And I didn't link it.
- But you'll tell me later, right?
- I don't know if I ever-
- She's like, I don't even fucking care about them.
- Yeah, I can probably try to find it real quick,
but they said, "The entire town of Damascus
was involved in the cult."
- No.
- That seems like something.
- Yeah, like probably you don't have two nickels

(37:44):
to rub together, I'm guessing.
But that seems like, you know,
you might wanna be a little bit more careful
about the things that you say
because people can sue you.
- Yeah.
- For words to come out of your wordful.
- Right.
- I just thought that was like a crazy,
the craziest, one of the craziest statements I'd ever heard,
like trying to be a razor.
- They just like, they have like a new initiative

(38:07):
on their next ballot.
- Oh, right.
- And they're like, we want to basically take like,
X percent of our city's revenue,
and we wanna use it to sue the living shit
out of these ridiculous podcast.
- Yeah.
- Not us, not other ones.
- Yeah, hopefully you listen
because like I'm trying to clear this shit up, okay?

(38:28):
I'm trying to be one of the good guys.
- That's just wild though.
- Yeah, the entire toll of Damascus is in this cult.
Because of this one house that has a cool fancy gate,
like it's crazy.
- Listen, I don't know, maybe that's accurate.
Seems like a little bit of a reach to me.
I'd like to see some receipts.

(38:49):
- Yeah.
- I mean, I feel like also people just kinda like poop
on the town because it is one of the towns
and Oregon that is not blue.
It's one of the red sections of Oregon.
But they don't deserve to be accused of being an occult
and unless they aren't.
- They're actually doing bad things.
- Yeah.
- Are you doing bad things?

(39:10):
- Are you actually a cult?
- Yeah.
- I think they're probably fine.
- Yeah.
- There is another reason though
that people think that there's some sort of cult involved.
This is getting crazy, okay?
- This is where the juicy, the juicy's are.
- The juicy juices.
- This is where the juicy's are.
- It's where the juicy juices.

(39:31):
That's where I wanna be.
- Juicy fruit.
- There is a website, OculusInubis.com.
- Okay, yeah, yeah.
- The quote on the, I think this is on like the first page
of the website.
It says, "As a 501(c)(3) non-profit religious organization."
- Did notice that?

(39:52):
- Yeah.
- We are committed to our goal of reclaiming
and preserving our sacred spaces.
Sustainably establishing a center focused on spiritual healing
while actively combating trafficking,
standing against racism involving the land.
Does that make any sense to anybody?

(40:13):
- I think I've latched on to some part of that
that I vaguely might have an idea of what they're saying.
Unfortunately, they have gone about saying it in a,

(40:34):
it's a Caesar word salad.
- It is very word salad-y.
- Like, yeah.
- And very interesting too that they mentioned trafficking
'cause that's like one of the rumors.
So that's very interesting.
- I feel like that's where that comes from.
- It might.
- So they're like, you know what they say there are against,
but they're not.
- Well, I hope not.

(40:56):
Like that's a really actually scary thing.
- It is, but I think that's where that comes from.
I think that's how the rumor starts.
'Cause they're like, "Oh, did you see that?"
- Oh, you know what I'm saying?
- I don't know 'cause this, I don't know what was first,
the rumors of the website.
You know, I feel like the website came after.
- Maybe.
Okay.
Okay.
- And I'm sure I could go to the website and see the year.

(41:18):
I have a lot more from the website though.
We're gonna.
- Sluet it.
- We're gonna get into it.
Does the websites have the year like at the bottom
of their name?
- Sometimes that's not like a standard thing anymore.
- Like 2024.
So like copyrighted in 2024.
So.
- Which that would change I think annually.
- Yeah.
- I think that just indicates like the most recent.

(41:38):
- Not when it was made.
- Yeah.
- Well, okay.
So there's more on this site.
They have a press tab.
And under the press tab is a post titled Community Healing
that says,
quote, "Oculus and Nubis is a religious non-profit."
I stumbled over the first and then really fucked up

(42:00):
the second.
- Yeah, because it feels ridiculous what you're saying.
- Yeah, I understand.
- And there's gonna be a lot of reading
because it's just so ridiculous that I couldn't like
something like I can't.
- You just like have to hear it.
- There is no Cliff Notes version.
There are only direct quotes.
It's odd.
- Yeah.
- Okay.
- Quote, "Oculus and Nubis is a religious non-profit
that is guided by healing, compassion and inclusivity

(42:23):
as we embark on our journey to acquire
the future church property at blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
in Damascus, Oregon.
We want to address any misconceptions or concerns
that may have surfaced due to the history mentioned
in the blog post on articlecats.com.
Titled,

(42:43):
"The Myth of Oculus and Nubis
how do you accuse your neighbor of running a cult?"
- Oh my God, I'm so excited.
I feel like this has a very similar vibe
to Nancy Brophy writing a blog post
about how to kill your husband and get away with it.
You know?
Yay, I'm so excited for me.

(43:04):
- So I just thought this was really weird.
The way that they write about this article,
which is again titled,
"The Myth of Oculus and Nubis."
It sounds like this article created a bunch of these rumors.
It's what they make it sound like.
- Okay, okay.
- But I read the article and it debunks

(43:25):
all of the common rumors and myths
and like alleged photos of the property.
That's where I found out that those photos
that people were like circulating were not from the property.
- Okay.
- And it basically says the stories being spread
about this place are just because it has a unique look
in the site, like, "Bashe is this article,"

(43:47):
which is so weird to me.
- They're like, "We don't need your help."
- It's very odd.
- I was literally so confused and I feel like
I just have to like read this to you.
- Okay.
- Because I couldn't, I just have to read it.
- There's no Clif Notes only quotes.
So they pulled this quote from the Mythbusters article.

(44:09):
- It's not Mythbusters, but it is.
(laughing)
- The article cat.
- That's the vibe.
- The article.
- The vibe.
- So the quote from article cat says,
"If you do a Google image search on the Temple
of Oculus and Ubisoft,
you have everything you need to support.
The initial story is being spread,
a fancy gate, an Egyptian-esque statue,
strangely looking domes under a pyramid frame.

(44:30):
So those were like the fake pictures.
- Okay.
- And underground corridors.
And it's talking about these are all the things
that are rumored.
- Okay.
- Yeah, yeah.
- And it's like,
"I'm just going to be a little bit more
"and I'm just going to be a little bit more
"and I'm just going to be a little bit more
"and I'm just going to be a little bit more
"and I'm just going to be a little bit more

(44:51):
"and I'm just going to be a little bit more
"and I'm just going to be a little bit more
"and I'm just going to be a little bit more
"and I'm just going to be a little bit more
"and I'm just going to be a little bit more
"and I'm just going to be a little bit more
"and I'm just going to be a little bit more
"and I'm just going to be a little bit more
"and I'm just going to be a little bit more
and that readers are left with
is that some eccentric private citizens

(45:11):
have a fancy gate and a religious statue
that connects to their heritage,
beliefs of four spirituality.
If the gate were adorned
with more conventional iconography.
- Yes, of course. - Yes.
- Would anyone even think twice about it?
Would websites spread rumors of a cult
or accuse a family of trafficking then?
- No.

(45:32):
- I mean, it's an obvious answer.
- Yeah.
- Yeah. - This is their response
on OculusAnubis.com.
- This shut up.
(laughing)
- This notably incorrect statement
from this frequently retweeted blog post states
that there are no underground tunnels
when there are not only permits
to confirm this existence, which there are.

(45:54):
You can see them.
- Okay, so they're like actually,
but you're wrong.
We have tunnels, okay?
- But we also have multiple online accounts
from explorers of said tunnels.
The people who are making up all of the rumors, right?
- Yeah.
- What else about this post might be incorrect?
- So are you saying that they should spread the rumors

(46:16):
and accuse the family of cult and trafficking?
- I know, I'm like, okay, so do you want to specify?
'Cause I feel like that's important at this point.
- Like it's debunking this thing
that is trying to debunk the bad.
- Yeah. - Okay.
- Am I- - And they're not even, no, no, no, no.
- Miss reading this. - We are evil.

(46:37):
- Like that's what it sounds like it's trying to say.
(laughing)
- Okay.
- And I don't think that they were even debunking
like the tunnels, they were just saying the tunnels aren't,
like the rumors about the tunnels are wrong.
I don't think they were ever saying like there's no tunnel,
either.
So I just like, I thought it was really odd.

(46:59):
A couple of things that I had quoted from the website
in the beginning were like, we want to acquire this property.
- Yeah. - Meaning?
Whoever's running this website does not own this property.
- Allegedly.
- Allegedly, but you can Google who owns a property
and it's not- - It's not.
- It's not the same person that runs this website at all.

(47:22):
- How can we be sure?
I mean, I guess it could be like a deep fake, but-
- I don't know. - They don't have any questions.
- The people who live there,
they don't want people coming on.
They chase them away, they don't want them there.
So I don't think that they have anything to do
with the website.
I don't think they want this kind of attention.

(47:42):
- Because they're private.
Well, we'll go into it.
- Okay. - Who lives there?
I guess we haven't really gotten there yet, but.
Yeah.
It was just supposed to be like a family's property.
Like it's not-
- Okay, so this is not a religious organization.
- Yeah, it doesn't appear to be some sort of shadow
organization or LLC based in the Caymans.

(48:04):
- I mean, not this one.
- Okay.
- So also under the press tab on this website,
they kind of do bash the current residents
and they try to kind of expose some fraud
that they do have evidence of
and they do link to the stories.
I'm not really gonna get into it
'cause there's other stuff I need to get into.
- Shit.

(48:24):
- And that is someone who still lives on the property.
So you're like, I don't know.
I don't wanna go into all her shit.
- Yeah. - If you're curious.
- You can find it.
- And I will.
- But yeah, so the fraud is definitely a theme
which we're gonna get to very shortly.
But there's clearly a dispute over the land.

(48:46):
Like, seems to be this one person thinks that they want it.
There's other people actually living on it.
They're like, but we own it.
- Right.
- Yeah, so.
- Wow.
- It gets messy.
So the gossip and myths might turn out to be false
but there is some very true crimes surrounding the property.

(49:07):
And I'm not gonna use their names.
I don't know if this is like a pussy move,
like not using these people's names.
- Not necessarily.
- But I feel like it was, it's not like murder.
So I don't know.
- I mean, and it depends on how pertinent their crimes are.
- You know, I feel like you have to just use your best
judgment.
- And the family still is on the property.
So I'm like, I don't know.

(49:28):
- You can easily find it if you want to,
but I just like, I don't need to.
- I do think there is something to be said for like,
this is publicly available.
If you want that information,
I'm gonna make you work for it.
I feel like that's fair.
- Visit the paceman.
- Yeah.
- Or Google, just Google,
share yourself with the pop.
- Or visit the paceman.
(laughing)
- This is a story from the Oregonian published in 2017.

(49:51):
- Ooh.
- There was a 41 year old man sentenced to one year
and one day in prison in order to pay 2.5 million in restitution
for scamming health insurance and the internal revenue service.
- I mean, honestly.
- A K, the IRS.
- Yeah, not a smart move in terms of the IRS,

(50:14):
but like, you know.
- Don't do that, man.
- Health insurance companies, like probably not a smart idea,
but fuck 'em.
- Fuck 'em.
- Right.
I mean, at this point.
- Yeah. - And this is back.
- No, pretty much always, the vibe is fucking.
- But still, like, you're gonna get in trouble
if you do that, right?
- It's a catch you.
- Yeah.

(50:35):
- Yeah. - It sounds like they caught them
because this man was sentenced.
- He done did get caught.
- He claims he was, quote, "acting as a servant
for his manipulative monstrous and distorted father."
- End quote.
- Okay, I assume we were gonna say wife.
- No. - Okay.
- Father.
- Great.
- At their eye care clinic in Russia.

(50:59):
- Fuck up.
- Eyes.
- Oculus.
It all makes sense.
- In 2015, the optimologist who I'll be referring to
was Papa Oculus.
He died at 80 before being charged with the crimes.
- Oh.
- But they sure charged his son.

(51:20):
- Oh shit.
- Okay, that's right.
- Literally, yeah.
- He got time.
He was ordered to pay the $2.5 million.
That is a bummer.
Although there were claims of abuse to his son and wife
at the hands of Papa Oculus,
the family used the Ilgotton money from the shell company

(51:41):
called Oculus Inc. to live off of and start to build
a 35,000 square foot house.
- Wow. - 35,000 square foot house.
- That's a million house.
- That's a compound.
A mansion is arguably like 10,000 square feet.
That's a fucking compound.
- Which kind of now this also fed into some of the rumors.

(52:06):
- Coltie.
- With its very own hella pad, of course.
- I'm also giving Coltie vibe.
- Not gonna lie.
- And was to be connected to another home on the property
by way of heated tunnel.
- So the tunnels are true.
- Yeah. - Still,
I don't know if they actually have been built.

(52:26):
We just can see the permits.
- We know the permits. - Yeah, exist.
- Yeah. - That's fair.
'Cause actually the construction,
that's a lengthy process.
- Right. - Yeah.
- And as far as I know,
the house was never finished.
- Jesus Christ.
- Okay.
- So people are talking about tunnels
that more than likely,
- Unless they built the tunnels first before the house.

(52:48):
- Well, you know, I'd be actually,
from like a seismology standpoint,
it might seismological seismologically.
It might make more sense to do the tunnels first.
- Maybe. - I doubt that's what they did.
And they probably don't have tunnels running

(53:10):
like under the complete footprint of the house
and depending on how deep they go
and I'm not a geologist or an architect or an engineer.
- Do you know something?
- Yeah.
- But, you know, I don't know.
There's arguments that we could make.
- Yeah, that is an interesting thought.
I kinda hadn't really thought about that.
But I just air dropped you the Google image photo

(53:34):
and you can see the unfinished.
You could basically just see like the foundation
of the house and like beams, like exposed beams.
- Okay. - Like it's unfinished.
- I mean, knowing what I know,
I can tell that that's what that is.
- Yeah, without even zooming in because it's kind of big.
- It is quite sizable and that's that very,

(53:56):
I know what Rebar looks like.
- Right, I don't like that.
- But I know what that looks like.
So, I was trying to see if it would give like a date
on the when the map was taken.
- It probably doesn't on your screenshot,
but Google image typically does.
- Okay, Kylan web sleuthed around

(54:16):
and we think she thinks that the Google images are current.
So, we don't think the house has been built ever.
Still exposed, probably getting very damaged.
- Yeah, Rebar, I'm surprised that it says.
- Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm surprised that it looks like
some, like the color of cement, essentially,

(54:39):
'cause they were at some stage of the foundation.
- Yeah, I wonder what it looks like close up.
- Yeah. - Ooh.
- So, we're gonna go on and keep talking about this family
who was involved in this fraud.
- Oh, right, there were people.
- They were just talking about Rebar.
- Yeah. - Okay.

(55:00):
- Wow.
- So, the son who I referred to here as Spawn Evoculus,
Spawn of Papa Oculus, his defense was that Papa O
was a lot different behind closed doors.
And then what the community saw of him, and knew of him.
So, - He was in disbainting.

(55:21):
- I really don't wanna know.
- Oh no, I said it and then I was like, I regret this.
- 'Cause I called him Papa.
- Yeah.
- But there was like, yeah, allegations of abuse
to the son and wife and I don't, he was dead.
So, it's like he can defend himself.
I really don't know what's true and what's not.
This is from the son's perspective.

(55:42):
- He also apologized in court and claimed that
because of his traumatic upbringing
and his autism spectrum disorder,
that he didn't understand what he was doing was wrong
until his team of lawyers helped him understand.
- Wow, that's really interesting.
A lot of people trying to use an autism spectrum disorder

(56:05):
to defend their behavior of late.
- Yeah.
- And I mean, the judge obviously disagreed
'cause he did plea guilty as well.
- Okay.
- He was like, yeah, I'm guilty,
but so he wasn't really trying to get out of it.
He was just, here's sort of an explanation,
which I don't know if you're,
if maybe really traumatized.
You work for your dad who traumatized you

(56:27):
and I'm not saying that like, because you're autistic,
you don't know like right from wrong.
I really don't know that side of it,
but I could see how you would just be like,
do you just do whatever he says?
- Yeah.
- You know, I don't know.
My understanding of autism spectrum disorders
is that you have a very defined sense of justice.

(56:51):
- Right, that's kind of what I thought.
- So, but like who makes the rules?
Who knows rules are you trained to follow?
You know, that trauma or abuse, alleged or you know,
maybe that changes your perception of what,

(57:12):
what that looks like with justice.
- Looks like.
- He did also ask for help in like his future,
like career endeavors, like help and guidance.
So I don't, so maybe there's some good side
of how good he's doing better.
- Okay.
- You know, I really don't know.
I didn't look into what he's doing now or where he's at

(57:33):
because it wasn't where he's at is not involved,
but we do know some other things about
some of the other family members.
- I'm so excited.
- So the actual current owner, when you Google the property,
is the son's spawn of Oculus, it's his wife or ex-wife.
I'm not really sure I didn't really dig down that path

(57:55):
to see if they actually got divorced
'cause I feel like that's probably in the records,
but I don't know where to look at things.
- I'm sure some sort of court filing
that can confirm that in that case.
- Yeah, but I feel like I didn't need to go do that.
- We don't care.
- She still has his last name.
- Yeah.
- I mean, like, who knows?

(58:16):
- Yeah.
- People keep their name, people don't.
- Yep.
- There has also been some dispute between her
and Papa O's wife.
- Ooooo.
- So the wife of, or the mom of mother-in-law, sorry,
that's not interesting.
- I was getting, well, like what is this?
- So the thing that this reminds me of

(58:37):
is do you remember that movie that JLo did
where it's monster and love?
- Well, it might be the reverse.
Yeah, so apparently from what all,
there's a ton of YouTube videos and stuff on the property.
There's actually some people who went on the property
to move the lion statues for the mom, mama-oh,

(58:59):
we'll just call her mama-oh, 'cause I'm not using names.
- Yeah.
- And they actually got chased off by the daughter-in-law.
So they, from what everyone says,
they think there's kind of a dispute about the land.
So the daughter-in-law actually owns it,
but the mama-oh lives there.

(59:20):
And I think they're like fighting over the land.
- That's very interesting.
- And there's like, I couldn't find records
of like who actually lives on the property, you know?
- Oh, we could find that.
- Probably can't.
- But I don't know if she officially,
she doesn't own the property.
So I don't know if she officially lives there.
Some of those things can be a little bit murky.

(59:41):
- Yeah.
- Which I was like, I've gone down so many robberholes.
Like I feel like we just,
we don't need to know who's on the property,
just that there is people living there.
I feel like, so.
- Okay.
- Yeah, it seems that's fair to say.
- Yeah, okay.
- And then potentially so this like third other person
with their religious organization.
So there's like potentially three people
like fighting over this land.

(01:00:02):
- Yeah, they're wow.
Like a triangle.
- Yes.
- A pyramid.
- Oh.
- I also did find out that Mama O is of Egyptian descent.
So.
- Okay, so that makes it a lot less weird than--
- When you find that out, it's like of course they're gonna,
if they have all this money, they're gonna--

(01:00:22):
- It's like a celebration of her culture and heritage.
- Yeah.
- So everybody else is just dexed.
- Exactly.
- I know, when I found that, I was like, well, duh.
Like obviously there is a blog post or article
that kind of did like a ton of internet digging
and figured out who was running the Oculus

(01:00:43):
the Nubis website, the church website.
- Okay, I so wondered.
- She, I mean, she doesn't look Egyptian to me.
I mean, I don't know.
But I'm like, who are these other people
who are trying to like run this religion?
That's like not your, it's not your,
like you're stealing this religion.
- That is so interesting.
- And like, creating, I don't know.

(01:01:04):
I feel like they're kind of making it their,
I don't know, they don't say what their religion is.
- Like appropriating?
- Yes, sounds like to me.
Anyway, I thought that was pretty interesting.
But some white girls coming in and trying to take this property
from an Egyptian woman who decorated it with her own

(01:01:25):
ancestral art.
- Wow, wow.
It's just gross.
- You know how people suck?
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- There's also a donate tab on that site.
Just like I would say not to donate.
- Probably not.
- I'm gonna not.
- Unless you're very sure what something is about
and what they're doing with the money.
And yeah, I don't know.

(01:01:47):
Like they're taking, are they taking donations
to be able to buy the property?
Like God, I just like, is it for sale?
(laughing)
- No, I know.
- Like there's one more thing.
- Okay.
- I don't know who started calling it Oculus Anubis.
Like I feel like people, I don't know if the owners,
if that family who lived there,
if that's what they called their property.

(01:02:08):
But I kind of just feel like people saw
like the Oculus name from the shell company,
the Oculus Inc.
And then like there's so many statues,
like Egyptian statues and people were like,
confusing that one big statue in the front for an Ubis.
Like did they just make up this name?

(01:02:29):
- See to me that reads as, especially knowing,
like I'm just not as familiar with some of that iconography
and I was like, oh, I'm so excited.
- Really, you know.
I think that seems totally plausible.
I feel like this is not even of their own making.

(01:02:52):
I feel like this is like a third party
that's just like Oculus Anubis, OVs.
- And then some other lady just made a church out of it.
- It's odd.
And I did kind of like look through all,
'cause I found that where Oculus came from
and I was like, oh, cool.
And I was like expecting them to say
like that's what they called their property.
And I didn't find anything like that.

(01:03:13):
- To confirm that.
- Yeah, no confirmations on where the Anubis part
of the name actually came from.
Or if people were just like evil, death, God,
Oculus Anubis.
It's also interesting too because like,
there's like the eye of raw and the eye of some other guy,
it starts with an H, I can't remember what it is.

(01:03:34):
Horace or something.
- Horace, so I'm like, why wouldn't they pick one of those?
'Cause it's like the eye, but they made it eye of Anubis.
- Yeah. - It's like, isn't really a thing.
I don't know.
It's interesting.
- Like interesting.
It seems like someone who doesn't know a lot about Egypt.
- Right.
- Just making up shit.
- First one they thought it.
And they mashed it together.
- Exactly.

(01:03:54):
- And they probably have all of the best words.
- Kind of moral the story is.
- Though there might be some actual juicy stuff here.
Some real true juicy stuff along with them,
all the made up juicy stuff.
But that still doesn't mean you have the right
to be disrespectful to the property.
Just because someone associated who used to live there

(01:04:15):
got convicted of a crime,
like doesn't give you the right to go in.
Gawk at it or be noisy and disrespectful
to everyone and all the other neighbors.
So, yeah, I don't know.
Honestly, if you look into it, probably that's the case
with a lot more properties than people realize.
- Yeah.
So.

(01:04:36):
- Reminds me too of the hell house.
Like this house that just happened to have terrible things
happen in it.
And then people just like going crazy over it.
Well, the address thing also didn't help.
But like the numbers, but that was, yeah.
Yeah.
No, it's interesting because I feel like now

(01:04:56):
where we were just talking about this off my egg
before we started recording that we're getting close
to 200 episodes.
And I feel like now there are so many times
where as we're talking about it,
whatever that episode is about, whatever the topic is

(01:05:17):
that it's like you see so many parallels
to other things that we've covered in an episode.
And at a certain point, I'm like, okay,
well, like how many of our past episodes
can we talk about and it feels a little
almost self-indulgent?
But I'm like, no, it's just so interesting to see where
I don't know, it kind of takes me back like,

(01:05:40):
what is the, it's sort of like those who don't
understand or learn history are doomed to repeat it?
And it's sort of just like, you see these same principles
come up time and time again in like certain we do.
Yeah, we do that with like all the episodes I feel like

(01:06:04):
this reminds us of that.
And it's like really impressive that we can actually recall
what we've done in the past 200 episodes.
Yeah.
No, I feel like it doesn't say anything spectacular
about my memory per se.
I think it's more about the pattern, recognition.
Yeah.
That's memory accounts.
Kind of, yeah, you know, whatever.

(01:06:26):
Well, I just want to leave you with one comment,
one part of a comment that was on one of these YouTube videos
that I found about the property.
All right, this person's comment says, quote,
"This is a great lesson in the damaging ripple effect
of gossip and rumors."
That property is gorgeous.

(01:06:46):
Ex-entrissities doesn't equal devil worship or cults.
Holy shit.
My job.
Okay.
So this is really crazy, but the damaging impact of rumors,
holy fucking shit.
Is that a theme and like something you're talking about?
Literally the episode that I'm doing next.

(01:07:09):
Oh my gosh.
It is a huge.
It's huge.
Huge.
Huge.
But huge component of my next episode.
Interesting.
Wow.
We were just picking up all the vibes.
Me always do.
I know it's so bizarre because I've had this case earmarked

(01:07:29):
for a long time and I feel like we both,
it sounds like both of these topics,
we've been like, oh, I'm going to cover this.
Yeah.
And now here we are covering them kind of, you know,
for our intense and purposes.
As far as release, they're not going to be exactly
back to back per se, but still.

(01:07:49):
It's like, that's cool.
Whoa.
I don't know if they will be.
Actually, I, maybe I take that back.
This is the next one we're going to record from you.
Yes.
And yes, they will be back to back.
So sometimes I lie that it's always on accident.
Unless it's on purpose.
Yes.
Unless it's on purpose.
I was really going to say unless plans change,

(01:08:10):
but then that just felt too perfect to say
after he said that.
All right.
Well, let's do some tarot for this bitch.
I think we should.
Oh, you lost all of those.

(01:08:32):
Oh, hello, the high priestess.
OK, I spread out the cards.
We were thinking Egyptian thoughts.
And I pulled the high priestess, which is number two,
the major arcana, number two like poo poo.

(01:08:57):
Like you do, like two lions at your gates.
Big kids.
It's interesting too.
We did get like the high priestess.
Well, I want to look at the I want them.
God, I can't fucking dog.
Fucking sad.
I hope they describe the traditional card.
Because I feel like there's some Egyptian imagery on some of the cards.

(01:09:21):
And I feel like this might be one of them, but I can't quite remember.
I'm not sure that this one does, but OK, either way,
we talked about like a powerful woman.
So that's interesting.
Yeah.
She does kind of have a Cleo vibe here.
Oh, OK.
Yeah.
OK.

(01:09:41):
Our keywords are intuition, emotions, feminine power, imagination, spirituality.
OK, perfect.
The inner life.
The inner life, that's kind of just like so interesting.
Because they're like secretive and like introverts.

(01:10:04):
Yeah.
So introverted that they might have tunnels.
Yeah.
Oh.
And what's inside those tunnels?
Don't know.
That's cool.
This beautiful and enigmatic card symbolizes feminine spiritual power,
or the goddess from whom all life comes and to whom it all returns.

(01:10:28):
That's that duality.
Oh, yeah.
Some deck show her as a serene female figure,
seated with a book or scroll on her lap to indicate wisdom.
Other decks depict her gazing into the distance
at something yet to be revealed.
Ooh.
What's going to be revealed?

(01:10:49):
Don't know.
It reminds me too of like at the gate gazing
into the distance at the Statue of Segment.
Bro.
Bro.
Bro.
Bro.
She's sometimes positioned between two pillars, one black, one white.
OK.
I'm just saying the pillars, it's really interesting.

(01:11:11):
And then it--
Oh, it keeps going.
It is interesting because there are photos
supposedly of the house where there's like pillars.
And it looks like a base.
I'm saying even at the gate.
Right.
It's it.
It's it.
It's maybe not pillars in the most traditional sense.
I'm just-- the iconography matches up for me.

(01:11:33):
But there are pillars.
There are pillars.
I don't know if I have that photo or not.
Keep reading.
Shut the fuck up.
OK.
So two pillars, one black, one white,
which represent the dual nature of existence, good and evil,
light and dark, truth and deception, positive and negative.

(01:11:54):
Wow.
We talked so much about that.
We did.
Interesting like the black coloring came up too.
And that's like one of the things, hey.
I talked about too.
This is interesting.
Extra.
Extra.
Sorry, I clicked on--
No, you're good.
I clicked on a picture of the gate when it was like all pretty.
Let me see.
I have to send this to you.

(01:12:15):
OK.
OK, I'm going to read the extra excerpt.
OK.
We all come from the goddess.
And to her, we shall return like a drop of rain flowing
to the ocean.
Because I just feel like this had so much
to do with iconography related to life and death.

(01:12:37):
Definitely, though.
I don't know.
The gate doesn't look as black here
as it does in some of the other photos.
But--
Yeah, that's interesting.
But that does kind of look like pillars.
Yeah.
And I forgot there was the two torches
on the side too, and they're lit in this photo.
Wow.
And the road is lined with pink flowers.

(01:13:00):
They're almost red.
And the statue--
I didn't really mention the statue is white.
Yeah.
Like white.
So we have that black and white.
Very interesting.
Black, white, and gold.
OK.
So we did draw this upright, correct?
OK.
The high priestess may advise paying attention

(01:13:20):
to your inner world, dreams, imagination,
and intuition, especially if you
tend to be a logical, practical person.
Look more deeply at your hidden talents and motivations,
face your shadow, and reconcile your inner life
with your outer one.

(01:13:40):
But reminds me of the sun, kind of, immediately.
Yeah.
Upright, the high priestess suggests inner changes
are taking place even if they haven't materialized yet.
Something hidden is about to come for it.
Oh, that freaked me out a little bit.

(01:14:00):
I wonder--
Like, I want something to come out about the property,
but I wanted to feel good.
Like, I want them to finish it and make it pretty not
the religious way, not like what that person wants to do it.
But--
Yeah, I feel like I'm not feeling that.
I feel like they could just do tours and stuff, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know.

(01:14:22):
But I mean, that's such a massive property and bill.
It is.
It would take a lot of money to do so.
I mean, one would imagine--
I'd just start charging people to tour.
All freaking give you 20 bucks to come take a tour of the land.
Right?
20 bucks.
This is interesting.
OK, so there's another extra excerpt

(01:14:43):
before our bulleted interpretations.
The shadow, psychologist Carl G. Young,
but the high priestess symbolized the shadow,
the unknown, secret, dark, and mysterious part
that lies within each of us.
Pretty sure you used all of those words describing this play.

(01:15:03):
Yeah, I think so.
But also, like, the secrets of the doctor
who is doing all the fraud, the ophthalmologist,
and maybe possibly abusing his family behind closed doors.
Yeah.
That's really reminiscent of that, too.
There's a lot-- I feel like there's a lot of ways
you can kind of tie that.
This next part will be fucking shit.
OK.

(01:15:24):
In a reading about money, you may be
too otherworldly or impractical in financial areas.
Perhaps you need to get a handle on spending.
Yeah, you try to spend $3 million building
stolen money, building a giant mansion.

(01:15:44):
Yeah, I don't know.
Maybe this card's for you.
The high priestess can also advise listening
to your intuition in an issue involving money.
If the reading is about your job,
this card recommends tuning into the invisible world, which
is really interesting when we're talking about someone

(01:16:05):
who has an occupation specifically related to the visible.
Yeah.
And taking advantage of your inner knowing
and the spiritual guidance available to you,
I'm getting such cool TV vibes.
Yeah, I kind of am, too, which totally fits.

(01:16:26):
Not that they have a cult, but there's cult themes, you know?
I mean, it's tied to it, whether that's intentional
on the part of the owner or anyone who's actually
affiliated with the property or not.
Yeah, it's like forever going to be--
It's like kind of tainted in a way.
OK.
It can also mean working in a field that

(01:16:47):
uses your inner power, intuition, and wisdom,
such as psychology, holistic healing, or a spiritual path.
OK.
I really-- this kind of triggered in me,
I would like to know, as an MD, I would think your license,

(01:17:08):
probably--
there's a fair chance it might be suspended.
Based on some of these bad acts.
And I wonder for someone in his position,
different kind of doctor, not a traditional MD,
but is he still licensed?
Well, he's dead.

(01:17:29):
No, I mean the son.
Oh, the son?
I'm not sure he was actually a doctor.
I think he just worked there.
I think he worked there, but it may have been in a different capacity.
Yeah, I think he like did paper work, like probably filed
all of the insurance claims and stuff.
Oh, could be.
I don't know 100%.
That's interesting.
But that's like the vibe I got.
I don't think he was an eye doctor.

(01:17:51):
OK.
But yeah, I would imagine that his license would be taken.
I would think.
I would think.
Not a guarantee.
Yeah.
OK.
In a reading about love, the high priestess
may describe a person who's intuitive spiritual in touch
with the higher realms of existence.

(01:18:14):
Reminding me of the word salad website.
A little bit.
Yeah.
She can also represent a very romantic relationship
that may not be well grounded in reality.
That almost makes me think of the person who started the website.
It's like she's in a relationship with this property that's not real.

(01:18:34):
Yeah.
Literally.
She's being catfished by her own imagination about the property.
Yeah.
Is that a thing?
I think it's a thing.
We read that last line one more time.
She can also represent a very romantic relationship that may not
be well grounded in reality.
It reminds me too of just like all the rumors and the people, especially

(01:18:58):
like the high school kids who are romanticizing this property that's
got a cult on it.
Yeah.
That's an interesting way to interpret that.
Oh, thank you.
No, I just, I think, wow.
Yeah.
But I feel like that it's not a word that we necessarily would readily

(01:19:20):
associate, but how things become sort, like romanticized is actually a more
appropriate word than it seems like on the surface.
Yeah.
Because it is taking something that may or may not be true and really
interpreting it just in such a, I don't know, a twisted way.

(01:19:42):
I don't romanticize actually feels so much more appropriate to me than I would have
thought.
I think so too.
And especially if you're into spooky stuff too, you could be like really romanticizing
it.
Yeah, we're going to go on this property.
It's going to be so spooky.
All this weird shit goes down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, I also had, I think, one more thought about, okay.

(01:20:05):
Oh, so the high priestess is like a feminine card, right?
And then there's like three women fighting over this land seemingly and like the men are
just all gone.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know if they are.
Yeah.
In all the stories, it's really about like three women.
Yeah, I mean, they appear and then sort of become absent from the story.

(01:20:26):
Whether or not that's truly the case is sort of, I guess, up for debate, but feminine energy
for sure.
All right.
Have a creepy ass day.
We'll see you next Tuesday.
And she lost in the tunnels of Oculus Anubis.

(01:20:47):
Under his eye.
I don't want to be under any dudes eye.
I'm not about that.
I'm not about that.
I'm not going.
[Music] pnwhauntsandhomicides.com